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| 00:41.07 | alex11 | when is it a good idea to specify the number for a man page? |
| 00:41.19 | alex11 | i know what it does, that's not my question |
| 00:41.27 | alex11 | ie. man 5 interfaces |
| 00:42.29 | sney | when it's not likely to be in section 1, or when you think it might share a name with something in another section |
| 00:42.37 | themill | I would normally only bother when it's ambiguous, such as crontab (1) vs crontab (5) |
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| 00:53.51 | alex11 | is it worth memorizing what it stands for |
| 00:54.00 | alex11 | i may just write it down and stick it up somewhere with tape lol |
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| 01:18.40 | sponix2ipfw | sney: genr8_ https://pcpartpicker.com/list/dx2cCz realist storage upgrade to my existing rig |
| 01:20.05 | sponix2ipfw | https://sponix.cf/Downloads/20190831rig.jpg |
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| 01:47.42 | themill | alex11: you're not often going to need to know what section of the manual is what. "man man" when you do. |
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| 02:01.04 | rk4 | sponix: jesus that's an expensive nas |
| 02:01.26 | rk4 | [for home, for enterprice pricing its practically free!] |
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| 02:02.13 | sponix | rk4: you talking about the $4.5K one I posted earlier -- Or the one that is just my current rig with $1.5K in drives added ? |
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| 02:02.22 | rk4 | 4.5k |
| 02:03.21 | sponix | Yeah, I would pull the trigger on that if I wasn't making payments on credit debt, a house, a car, a wife and 2 kids :) |
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| 02:11.54 | dvs | sponix: get your priorities straight! ;-P |
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| 02:20.40 | o0 | Not sure if this is the right room. Each time I connect a USB headset, it works for about 5 seconds then stops. Just freshly installed KDE on debian, have tried both gstreamer and vlc backends. Any help would really be appreciated! |
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| 02:45.14 | jmcnaught | o0: did you check in KMix that applications are using the correct device? |
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| 03:03.34 | rk4 | sponix: if you have that kind of cash spare...have you seen raptor engineerings power9 offerings? seems the best option for a FLOSS focused PC at the moment |
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| 03:07.39 | o0 | jmcnaught: noob mistake, thanks for the help! Also KMix was not installed for some reason. |
| 03:07.41 | o0 | appreciate the help! |
| 03:08.56 | sponix | rk4: that $4.5K was just a "wish machine". Adding more drives to my current rig is Way more likely :) |
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| 03:14.53 | rajivmars | i wanted to install debian. which is better for me as a student stable, testing, or unstable? |
| 03:15.14 | sney | if you've never used debian, install stable. |
| 03:15.25 | sney | testing/unstable are mainly for experienced users and debian developers |
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| 03:19.43 | rajivmars | sney. i have used debian once. but but buster is not install in my laptop due to some firmware issue. |
| 03:19.51 | sney | !firmware image |
| 03:19.52 | dpkg | Unofficial <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/ The images are "unofficial" because "official Debian" includes only 100% free software. |
| 03:20.36 | sney | unless your laptop is new this year, the firmware iso will solve your wifi problem. |
| 03:21.31 | rajivmars | sney, not only wifi problem. after finishing debian 10 installation, its not able to boot. |
| 03:21.56 | sponix | rajivmars: you tell it to put grub in the right spot ? |
| 03:22.54 | rajivmars | i have tried 3 times but every time after installation has finished it debian 10 complain about some sort of firmware missing. |
| 03:23.18 | sney | have you tried with the firmware iso that dpkg linked above? or only the installer from the debian.org main page? |
| 03:23.39 | rajivmars | sponix: i install debian 9 in the same way and that was running like a charm |
| 03:24.07 | sponix | odd |
| 03:24.09 | rajivmars | sney; you mean unofficial images? |
| 03:24.52 | rajivmars | sponix; i have not tried debian 10.6 yet. |
| 03:25.05 | sney | yes, the link from dpkg's message above. |
| 03:25.29 | rajivmars | sney, are the firmware images safe? |
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| 03:25.58 | rajivmars | because it says 'unofficial' |
| 03:26.02 | sney | yes, it is identical to the regular debian installer, it just includes extra binary files in /lib/firmware. |
| 03:26.11 | sponix | rajivmars: the unofficial non-free image is legit. It is the same as regular Debian, it just has better hardware support out of the box |
| 03:27.06 | rajivmars | sponix: thanks for the clarification. actually because of that 'unofficial' tag i was bit affraid. |
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| 03:28.16 | sponix | yeah, don't let the name scare you off. Give that one a try |
| 03:28.49 | rajivmars | sponix, ok. i m starting downloading the iso. |
| 03:30.06 | sney | tbh unofficial is probably the wrong word to use. |
| 03:31.02 | dvs | it should say "nonfree" |
| 03:31.40 | sney | the header on the page dpkg links to is pretty clear |
| 03:32.24 | sney | could probably make room for "equivalent to the normal images we produce regularly except in that they also include non-free firmware to make things easier on some systems" in the factoid somehow. |
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| 03:53.32 | rajivmars | sney, yes, 'unofficial' sounds a bit awkward until someone clarifies it like you guys just did to me. |
| 03:54.33 | sponix | rajivmars: I agree, the "unofficial" portion makes you feel like maybe it will not get support from the community if you use it -- but that is not the case at all :) |
| 03:55.23 | rajivmars | yeah:) |
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| 04:33.16 | H-var | hello, I'm using debian 10.6. I just disabled bluetooth, and when I wanted to enable it I found that debian cannot find the bluetooth devices anymore on my computer |
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| 04:36.31 | sponix | H-var: yeah, you most likely have to go back through the "paring" process every time |
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| 04:42.46 | H-var | I mean debian cannot see the onboard bluetooth anymore |
| 04:42.58 | H-var | like there is no bluetooth on my motherboard after I disabled it |
| 04:43.17 | H-var | it's just gone completely |
| 04:45.33 | themill | "disabled" how? |
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| 04:57.05 | genr8_ | run: "rfkill list" first, see if you accidentally blocked it perhaps with a key combo |
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| 05:36.54 | willow | can anyone suggest or recommend a best way to build a custom debian docker image? |
| 05:36.54 | H-var | wait |
| 05:37.12 | H-var | are you asking me to open a kill list? :D |
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| 05:38.29 | H-var | nothing's showing up as hard blocked - cool app! |
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| 05:40.05 | H-var | https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/ROG-STRIX-Z370-I-GAMING/specifications/ |
| 05:40.35 | H-var | yeah, it definitely does have bluetooth, so how did it completely disappeared after I simply disabled in via GUI? |
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| 05:44.06 | rgr | I'm going potty here. Just setting up an old thinkpad which has a uk keyboard. I've done a dpkg-reconfigure on console-setip/data and keyboard-configuration but the "#" key is still returning "/". (im using i3 btw). The only way I cant make the uk setting stick is adding a "setxkbmap gb" to my .profile. What am I doing wrong? The only issue I have with this, other than its tacky, is that when I ssh in a get the "catn open |
| 05:44.06 | rgr | default display" message since the setxkbmap call outputs something - the 2>&1 redirect doesnt work/inhibit the message. So where best to add this call and/or who to configure it properly. |
| 05:45.49 | H-var | how can I maybe make debian scan for bluetooth onboard devices and add them automatically? |
| 05:47.09 | H-var | "no bluetooth adapters found" - bs |
| 05:47.38 | themill | H-var: you never explained how you disabled bluetooth to begin with |
| 05:48.02 | H-var | i just disabled it in the tray menu |
| 05:48.24 | H-var | I just clicked "disable bluetooth visibility or something like that in tray |
| 05:48.51 | H-var | and after that it's gone and I see an error message now in the settings panel that there is no adapter on my computer |
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| 06:01.28 | H-var | I restarted debian, and checked my bios - my bluetooth is enabled, but debian deleted it and now says I don't have it at all |
| 06:01.31 | H-var | how can I fix this? |
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| 06:05.17 | H-var | I follow this manual on the debian website: https://wiki.debian.org/BluetoothUser |
| 06:05.39 | H-var | I typed service bluetooth status, but it says "command service not found" |
| 06:07.41 | H-var | sudo service bluetooth status: Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/bluetooth.service; enabled; vendor preset: enabled) |
| 06:07.52 | H-var | Active: inactive (dead) |
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| 06:09.27 | H-var | I tried sudo service bluetooth force-reload |
| 06:09.52 | H-var | and now I get this error repeated in multiple lines: debian systemd[1]: Condition check resulted in Bluetooth service being skipped. |
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| 06:16.20 | jelly | H-var, does "lsusb -v|grep -B7 -i blue|grep ^B" show your bluetooth controller? What about "dmesg|grep -iE 'bt|bluet'" ? Perhaps there's a button to enable or disable the bt radio. |
| 06:18.27 | jelly | H-var, which computer brand and model is this, is there a Fn-key combo to disable/enable bluetooth |
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| 06:20.39 | H-var | http://paste.debian.net/1166304/ |
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| 06:24.03 | H-var | http://paste.debian.net/1166305/ |
| 06:24.18 | willow | ugh what happens to the terminal colors with screen? |
| 06:25.16 | H-var | https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/ROG-STRIX-Z370-I-GAMING/specifications/ |
| 06:26.56 | H-var | maybe I need non-free firmware? |
| 06:28.14 | H-var | but I don't get it - it was working after the initial installation of the non-free firmware version of debian |
| 06:28.52 | H-var | and then I simply clicked "disable bluetooth visibility" or something like that in tray, and now it says I don't have the adapter anymore |
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| 06:34.29 | jelly | H-var, what about "rfkill list" |
| 06:35.09 | H-var | it only returns Wireless LAN |
| 06:35.53 | jelly | did you perhaps upgrade or change the kernel |
| 06:35.58 | H-var | http://paste.debian.net/1166306/ |
| 06:36.28 | H-var | upgrading will break debian? |
| 06:37.49 | H-var | I don't even know how to change the kernel |
| 06:38.14 | jelly | upgrading the kernel often requires upgrading the firmware in tandem |
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| 06:38.40 | H-var | how do I upgrade the firmware then? |
| 06:38.59 | jelly | you shouldn't have to, unless you upgraded the kernel |
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| 06:39.17 | H-var | I ran sudo apt upgrade |
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| 06:42.16 | jelly | can you verify bluetooth is enabled in bios? |
| 06:42.27 | H-var | yes, I did |
| 06:42.43 | H-var | it's enabled |
| 06:43.16 | H-var | maybe I need to install the right firmware? which one is the right one for my motherboard? |
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| 06:46.07 | jelly | google suggests Strix Z370-E uses r8822be driver and therefore firmware-realtek should be installed, but that won't help if the device isn't present on usb AT ALL |
| 06:46.28 | jelly | your board has a similar chipset |
| 06:47.07 | jelly | H-var, care to pastebin complete output of "lsusb" and "lspci -nn" |
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| 06:50.23 | jelly | H-var, and just to verify, what does "uname -a" say |
| 06:50.25 | H-var | http://paste.debian.net/1166307/ |
| 06:50.52 | H-var | Linux debian 4.19.0-11-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.146-1 (2020-09-17) x86_64 GNU/Linux |
| 06:51.31 | jelly | H-var, missing -nn option for lspci |
| 06:52.44 | jelly | okay, that's the standard kernel for Debian 10 |
| 06:52.50 | H-var | firmware-realtek is already the newest version (20200918-1~bpo10+1) |
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| 06:53.20 | jelly | ,v firmware-realtek |
| 06:53.21 | judd | Package: firmware-realtek on amd64 -- jessie/non-free: 0.43; jessie-security/non-free: 20161130-5~deb8u1; stretch/non-free: 20161130-5; stretch-backports/non-free: 20190114-2~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 20190114-2; buster-backports/non-free: 20200817-1~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 20200918-1; sid/non-free: 20200918-1 |
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| 06:53.56 | H-var | http://paste.debian.net/1166308/ |
| 06:54.08 | themill | hmm bpo firmware but not bpo kernel |
| 06:54.15 | jelly | H-var, it shouldn't matter too much, but is there a reason you have firmware-realtek from buster-backports instead of from buster proper? |
| 06:54.31 | jelly | firmware and kernel should typically match |
| 06:54.32 | H-var | I have no idea guys |
| 06:54.51 | H-var | how can I install from the proper then? |
| 06:55.11 | H-var | I think I enabled backports to install nvidia drivers |
| 06:55.13 | jelly | you can try installing firmeware-realtek=20190114-2 and reboot and see if that makes any difference |
| 06:55.20 | jelly | mind the typo |
| 06:56.20 | H-var | can I just do service bluetooth restart? |
| 06:57.24 | jelly | no |
| 06:57.29 | H-var | ok now things changed a bit: http://paste.debian.net/1166309/ |
| 06:57.36 | H-var | I'll restart now |
| 06:57.42 | jelly | firmware is only touched at reboot (driver load time) |
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| 07:01.00 | H-var | it didn't help |
| 07:02.54 | H-var | and now it's also like this too http://paste.debian.net/1166310/ |
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| 07:05.20 | H-var | firmware-realtek is already the newest version (20190114-2). |
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| 07:06.07 | H-var | No Bluetooth adapters have been found |
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| 07:10.34 | ueb | Hello |
| 07:11.32 | ueb | after changing gateway on /etc/network/interfaces, should I restart networking with "service networking restart" ? |
| 07:11.51 | lionman | yes |
| 07:12.00 | ueb | ok |
| 07:12.27 | ueb | is there any way to change gateway without editing /etc/network/interfaces ? |
| 07:12.45 | ueb | I mean with shell command |
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| 07:15.23 | H-var | help? |
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| 07:17.40 | ueb | any idea? |
| 07:18.03 | ueb | is there any way to change the gateway with shell commands ? |
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| 07:19.06 | rk4 | `man ip-route` would be where i looked |
| 07:19.46 | ueb | ip-route? |
| 07:20.41 | rk4 | nods |
| 07:24.44 | leden | H-var: can you give us lsusb | nc termbin.com 9999 |
| 07:25.28 | ueb | rk4 ok thanks |
| 07:25.29 | jelly | leden, they already pasted lsusb (before last reboot) |
| 07:26.06 | jelly | H-var, I was away, did you show lspci -nn perhaps? |
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| 07:26.27 | H-var | yes, everything |
| 07:26.51 | jelly | with -nn? What's the url again please? |
| 07:27.22 | H-var | http://paste.debian.net/1166308/ |
| 07:27.45 | jelly | thanks, so 03:00.0 Network controller [0280]: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8822BE 802.11a/b/g/n/ac WiFi adapter [10ec:b822] ... is supposed to be both for wifi and bt |
| 07:28.54 | H-var | http://paste.debian.net/1166304/ |
| 07:29.31 | H-var | I suppose so? |
| 07:29.38 | H-var | I don't know... |
| 07:29.42 | jelly | and asus_wmi is supposed to be managing kill switches for both I guess |
| 07:30.03 | H-var | probably it is 2in1 |
| 07:30.31 | jelly | I don't have any more ideas right now, sorry |
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| 07:30.42 | H-var | https://www.realtek.com/en/products/communications-network-ics/item/rtl8822be |
| 07:31.08 | jelly | maybe, if you have an older kernel like 4.9.0-10-amd64 still installed, you can try booting that and see if there's any difference |
| 07:31.43 | H-var | Linux debian 4.19.0-11-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.146-1 (2020-09-17) x86_64 GNU/Linux |
| 07:32.19 | jelly | H-var, I mean, look at /boot/ contents, and pick an older kernel in the grub menu (maybe in the advanced sub menu) |
| 07:32.30 | jelly | when booting |
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| 07:33.59 | H-var | I kinda ditched windows for a while. I'm tired of my hard drives being read 24\7, and my hdd led constantly lighting up at night. Now I sleep great since in linux my hdd light is always off when I'm not doing anything related to them, and the hdds are silent. |
| 07:35.03 | gry | nice |
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| 07:35.51 | H-var | it would be, if things just worked |
| 07:35.59 | H-var | the way things just work in windows |
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| 07:36.43 | H-var | you just install it, and everything just works and here I cannot for example enable bluetooth |
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| 07:37.18 | H-var | drivers are installed. I don't understand - I only disabled it via tray, and now it's just gone |
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| 07:38.07 | H-var | is there anything else I can do? |
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| 07:38.40 | H-var | I know that the bluetooth worked after the initial installation of debian |
| 07:39.15 | H-var | everything was fine until I disabled it, but when I wanted to enable it back again, it now says that I do not have the adapter anymore |
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| 07:39.34 | jelly | H-var, do you still have windows installed? |
| 07:40.02 | H-var | ok, I'll try to check it there |
| 07:40.05 | H-var | one sec |
| 07:40.14 | jelly | if you do, try booting that and enabling bluetooth from there. Then do NOT touch the disable thing from Linux any more :-) |
| 07:40.58 | genr8_ | and if you're gonna enable backports for 1 nvidia driver, dont then apt-get upgrade evertyhing with backports still enabled |
| 07:41.24 | H-var | there's a problem with the nvidia driver |
| 07:41.35 | jelly | judging by your symptoms (complete lack of usb device for bluetooth), it appears Linux managed to disable the device in a way that makes is impossible to reenable it |
| 07:41.43 | H-var | my refresh rate is always like 20fps after a reboot |
| 07:42.03 | H-var | but as soon as I open the nvidia driver settings, it starts working properly |
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| 07:42.29 | genr8_ | the performance setting probably |
| 07:42.45 | H-var | i'll go boot winblows |
| 07:42.49 | jelly | I've seen that on ibm laptops, and it took messing with platform-specific /proc/acpi/ibm/bluetooth to enable the device again |
| 07:43.14 | jelly | but h-var is on an asus desktop mainboard |
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| 07:54.49 | rk4 | bit of a vague question, so i have this shiny new laptop [i5-10210U using intel UHD gfx], others have found it needs linux 5.4 or newer for all the hardware to run happily. i tested with ubuntu 20.04, worked great. but i'd like to run debian stable, aside from newer versions linux & possibly the corresponding firmware blobs, is there anything else i'd likely need? i presume the older pulseaudio, xorg, et al |
| 07:54.51 | rk4 | won't have much of an impact on hardware compatability |
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| 08:03.39 | ratrace | rk4: probably not, but who knows |
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| 08:09.54 | jelly | rk4, it's hard to say whether versions of other software are going to be good enough, and it's VERY likely you're going to need newer kernel and matching firmware. TIAS |
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| 08:10.59 | jelly | rk4, also, some laptop brands and models are supported better than others |
| 08:12.01 | rk4 | it's a thinkpad so should be on the easier side, but it wouldn't have existed when buster was frozen |
| 08:12.26 | rk4 | shall try and see |
| 08:12.33 | jelly | (dell xps, thinkpads X and T and W series, get their quirks typically solved quicker than random laptops from other vendors) |
| 08:13.18 | jelly | I'd go with bullseye immediately on a T14 or similar 2020 model. |
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| 08:15.22 | rk4 | it is a T14, bullseye though is still an oldish kernel, so presents me with a similar situation of needing a newer kernel |
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| 08:15.55 | ratrace | the one in bullseye is the one you'd get in buster backports tho |
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| 08:16.22 | ratrace | and it's 5.7 so hardly "oldish" :) unless you need bleeding edge, almost RC kernel in which caes... archlinux :) |
| 08:16.42 | ratrace | ,v linux-image-amd64 |
| 08:16.43 | judd | Package: linux-image-amd64 on amd64 -- jessie: 3.16+63+deb8u2; jessie-security: 3.16+63+deb8u7; stretch-security: 4.9+80+deb9u6; stretch: 4.9+80+deb9u11; stretch-backports: 4.19+105+deb10u4~bpo9+1; buster: 4.19+105+deb10u6; buster-backports: 5.7.10-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 5.8.10-1; sid: 5.8.10-1; experimental: 5.9~rc6-1~exp1 |
| 08:16.59 | ratrace | ooh, bullseye bumped. very well... 5.7 is still not that old. |
| 08:17.40 | rk4 | ah, yeah you're right, bullseye is plenty new enough |
| 08:18.09 | jelly | also, ubuntu takes care of drivers for those laptops, so their 5.4 kernel and X and friends on 20.04. might be better than upstream or Debian's 5.4 kernel |
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| 08:18.32 | ratrace | true that. they call it SAUCE. |
| 08:19.03 | jelly | debian kernel team does that reactively if you file bugs. |
| 08:19.28 | jelly | and if it's easy to bcakport drivers or tune them, which is often true |
| 08:19.56 | jelly | but apparently it's better when you pay developers to care about hw support |
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| 08:20.19 | ratrace | who woulda thunk :) |
| 08:20.23 | jelly | ikr |
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| 08:22.45 | H-var | you won't believe this bullcrap |
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| 08:22.51 | H-var | you know what i did? |
| 08:23.07 | ratrace | we're aquiver with anticipation! |
| 08:23.13 | rk4 | toggled a bios thingy |
| 08:23.14 | H-var | :D |
| 08:23.26 | H-var | I disabled the bluetooth in bios, and then I enabled it again |
| 08:23.42 | H-var | and after that it works |
| 08:23.43 | rk4 | waits for his prize |
| 08:23.57 | H-var | that doesn't make any sense |
| 08:24.16 | ratrace | sure does. bios thingy is stateful |
| 08:24.22 | rk4 | it sort of does, sometimes the same sort of rubbish happens but doing that from windows fixes it |
| 08:24.37 | ratrace | the ancients use to remove, wait and reinsert the bios battery to fix issues. |
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| 08:25.07 | H-var | my bios battery is dead from the factory btw, and it's soldered in lol |
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| 08:25.31 | Cymew | Someone care to enlighten me about how these two settings work together? 'APT::Periodic::Download-Upgradeable-Packages "0";' and 'APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade "1";' I was under the impressions the latter one decided if upgrades where configured, but what then of the other one? |
| 08:25.37 | H-var | have to solder in a new one, but too lazy, so if it's power off, it's power effin off |
| 08:26.02 | H-var | rk4 even the windows didn't see the bluetooth adapter |
| 08:26.25 | H-var | only after I disabled it in bios, rebooted, and then re-enabled it, only then it started seeing it |
| 08:26.46 | rk4 | H-var: so i have the reverse sort of thing, if i boot into linux on my gaming computer, then go back to windows, the mic doesn't work, until i set it to disabled to enabled :( |
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| 08:27.08 | H-var | is it realtek? rk4? |
| 08:27.38 | H-var | yeah - realtek is garbage. Everyone knows that since 1982 |
| 08:27.40 | ratrace | H-var: can your bios be updated? |
| 08:28.17 | rk4 | it's a soundblaster z :< |
| 08:28.37 | H-var | updating my bios won't remove crappy realtek and insert something good :P |
| 08:29.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1156] by debhelper |
| 08:29.06 | H-var | "have you tried powering it off, and then powering it on again?" - golden words |
| 08:29.08 | H-var | lol |
| 08:29.23 | ratrace | H-var: I wasn't asking because of that. If it can be updated then it has flash or some other persistent storage, which 'splains why toggling it works, despite turning the whole thing on or off |
| 08:30.24 | jelly | !win H-var |
| 08:30.25 | dpkg | Congratulations, H-var! You have won the US presidency! |
| 08:30.32 | H-var | yes, ratrace - I'm pretty sure all modern bios can be updated |
| 08:30.46 | H-var | !lose H-var |
| 08:30.46 | dpkg | H-var: You Lose. |
| 08:31.01 | ratrace | H-var: then all this is not surprising to you, innit ;) |
| 08:31.07 | H-var | wow, are you telling me I am as smart as Trump and Bush? |
| 08:31.10 | H-var | heh |
| 08:31.19 | jelly | that would be an insult |
| 08:31.27 | jelly | we try to be nice (by default) |
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| 08:32.00 | H-var | I insulted myself by asking this question, so it's all good |
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| 08:33.21 | H-var | there's something else with debian - when I click the shutdown thingy it kinda tries to do something, and then finally ends up with a grey screen where I cannot do anything |
| 08:33.48 | ratrace | acpi drama! |
| 08:35.25 | H-var | asynchronous computer power interface? |
| 08:35.32 | rk4 | T14's are shipping with ubuntu, and possibly i hear fedora, which is a win for linux. but damnit...i don't want to deal with snaps bs, or whatever else canonical is pushing |
| 08:35.52 | ratrace | H-var: Advanced Configuration and Power Interface :) |
| 08:36.08 | ratrace | rk4: apt remove snapd |
| 08:36.13 | H-var | Acipipi? |
| 08:36.20 | ratrace | oooh, wait, you can't, gnome is a snap. well, shoot. |
| 08:36.39 | jelly | snap is mostly harmless on 18.04, slows down boot a little |
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| 08:36.55 | H-var | i kinda like snap - it looks cute and they have cool buttons |
| 08:37.10 | rk4 | i don't use gnome and don't mind toasting it, and networkmanager with it, but i think i'll end up in niche ubuntu user land with weirdly incompat setup |
| 08:37.18 | ratrace | I used to like Snap when I was a kid. |
| 08:37.28 | H-var | oh, snap |
| 08:37.29 | jelly | but honestly, if it's still canonical doing the packaging, why does it matter whether they use deb or snap |
| 08:37.35 | tarzeau | ratrace: can't touch it? |
| 08:37.36 | jelly | either you trust the vendor, or don't |
| 08:37.43 | ratrace | rk4: nah, I ran i3-wm on ubuntu for a while before switching to debian + i3-wm |
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| 08:37.48 | ratrace | tarzeau: that's MC Hammer |
| 08:37.52 | rk4 | <3 i3-wm |
| 08:37.55 | tarzeau | oh right i've got the power |
| 08:37.59 | ratrace | right, the powe r:) |
| 08:38.09 | H-var | hammer time? |
| 08:38.10 | n4dir | rk4: i won't bet, but am pretty sure i removed snap from ubuntustudio |
| 08:39.22 | H-var | how can debian fail to do such a simple thing as turn off a PC? |
| 08:39.24 | ratrace | in straight ubuntu at least, as of 18.04 or a few earlier releases, gnome is installed as a snap, so one can't yank it out without also yanking out whole default UI. |
| 08:39.30 | H-var | turning |
| 08:39.33 | ratrace | H-var: because ACPI won't let it |
| 08:39.46 | rk4 | jelly: i don't find the idea of dual package managers for my OS appealing, but i agree from a security point of view there's not much in it. it's still plausible that snap is a pain, like i hear they push updates on their schedule for snaps |
| 08:39.46 | H-var | but windows can |
| 08:39.50 | H-var | so |
| 08:39.54 | ratrace | all "debian" can do is tell acpi to shush the zhush down. then acpi goes, *snap* "oh no I won't!" |
| 08:39.55 | H-var | ratrace |
| 08:40.19 | H-var | ubt widnows can shutdown no problems |
| 08:40.40 | ratrace | because acpi is letting it |
| 08:40.47 | ratrace | drivers and all that. |
| 08:41.01 | H-var | are there drivers for that in debian? |
| 08:41.14 | ratrace | it's whatever it is in the kernel |
| 08:41.53 | H-var | why won't debian at least warn the user like "you need these drivers: 1, 2, 3, but they are not open source or whatever. Wanna install?" |
| 08:42.06 | ratrace | H-var: it can. patches welcome :) |
| 08:42.08 | H-var | and then just allow people to install them during the initial debian setup |
| 08:42.17 | H-var | no it doesn't |
| 08:42.19 | ratrace | someone has to write all that interface. |
| 08:42.25 | H-var | when I was installing debian, I wasn't informed |
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| 08:42.48 | ratrace | because it ..... okay you misunderstood what I said. it's technically possible, but nobody wrote that code YET. |
| 08:43.03 | *** part/#debian a-l-e (~a-l-e@pool1-14.cgn.as8758.net) |
| 08:43.06 | H-var | I have to go to the internet tubes and read words |
| 08:43.08 | rk4 | ratrace: so why did you move from ubuntu/i3 to debian/i3? |
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| 08:43.36 | H-var | ratrace you should write it. You can write. |
| 08:43.38 | a-l-e | hi... what's the right way to get back "python" in debian testing? |
| 08:43.49 | n4dir | !testing |
| 08:43.49 | dpkg | Testing is a continuously updated release between <stable> and <unstable>, currently codenamed <bullseye>. See http://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting . Support in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net and ask me about <testing faq> <buster->bullseye> <testing security> <moving target> <apt-listchanges> <apt-listbugs> and <bts>. You need a sound knowledge of Debian and be prepared for a very bumpy ride. Don't use it on things that are critical! |
| 08:44.03 | ratrace | rk4: because ubuntu does a whole bunch of things in their own way that made me, as a sysadmin, scream in terror. |
| 08:44.03 | n4dir | wrong factoid i guess. |
| 08:44.09 | jelly | H-var, there are kernel boot options to tune power-off methods for shutdown times |
| 08:44.21 | a-l-e | ... python2 has disappeared and now python is not used anymore... |
| 08:44.33 | H-var | jelly that's not user-friendly |
| 08:44.41 | ratrace | a-l-e: there is no more python2 |
| 08:44.48 | H-var | that stuff should be put on the os's shoulders |
| 08:44.52 | jelly | H-var, fixing hardware support quirks is never user friendly |
| 08:44.57 | a-l-e | ratrace, yes, that was not the question : - 9 |
| 08:45.01 | ratrace | all you can do is find the source and build it yourself, or try ..... forward-porting.... packages from earlier releases |
| 08:45.08 | Cymew | ratrace: I would go so far as to say Ubuntu exists to take Debian tech and break it subtly. |
| 08:45.09 | a-l-e | but /usr/bin/env: âpythonâ: No such file or directory |
| 08:45.23 | rk4 | ratrace: i'm somewhere between a decade or two elbow deep into using debian, so it would be quite a cultural shift at least for me |
| 08:45.28 | n4dir | a-l-e: #debian-next on irc.oftc.net is the right channel for debian testing. |
| 08:45.32 | jelly | H-var, if oyu want debian to fix it, you file a bug report... and that's more work than trying a boot param or two |
| 08:45.38 | a-l-e | ah, ok sorry... |
| 08:45.58 | n4dir | you can get away with asking here ... but not always |
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| 08:46.15 | a-l-e | i thought i was in #debian-next. |
| 08:46.27 | a-l-e | i must have typed someting incorrectly. sorry. |
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| 08:46.33 | jelly | no prob, bob |
| 08:46.52 | a-l-e | mmmm.. no... |
| 08:46.58 | a-l-e | it was not my error |
| 08:47.16 | ratrace | a-l-e: btw... if you want python3 with `python`.... it _should_ be possible per PEP-<Iforgotnumber>, as of python2's EOL |
| 08:47.24 | ratrace | if you don't have it.... maybe it's a bug then |
| 08:47.27 | n4dir | let's get back to the question why debian is like debian and not like something different ... |
| 08:47.35 | a-l-e | yes it was... but it's a bit unfriendly... : - ) |
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| 08:47.56 | H-var | linux - an operating system that you install, and then you write the rest of the code yourself and then you use it, and pray to god you won't have to go through all that ever again because you know that by the time you will need to do it again you'll forget everything you learned, so you'll have to re-read all the articles, and re-talk to all the people. |
| 08:48.14 | n4dir | there we go. And i can hear a plonk |
| 08:48.16 | ratrace | H-var: I think you mean GNU/HURD |
| 08:48.16 | hwm4rgs | Linux is a kernel. |
| 08:48.24 | a-l-e | mmm... ok tested: if i join #debian-next i get to join #debian. |
| 08:48.47 | hwm4rgs | You're not on OFTC. This is freenode. |
| 08:48.54 | a-l-e | no "visible" warning... but the topic says (if i read really well) that i should join oftc... |
| 08:50.24 | a-l-e | ok, i'll go there... |
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| 08:51.54 | H-var | my first linux was fedora, but I couldn't get past the login screen in that stolen notebook, so it wasn't a long experience. |
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| 08:53.27 | rk4 | shame you didn't have your redhat certificates! step 0 in the exam was to reset the root password |
| 08:53.48 | H-var | I was young, I was stupid |
| 08:55.30 | jelly | mine wasn't stolen! It just had a weird crack and a missing piece where the kensington lock was supposed to be placed. |
| 08:55.32 | H-var | debian is amazing - even with the latest KDE interface installed, I barely get past 300mb of RAM while idling. |
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| 08:56.18 | jelly | learned not to buy laptops from ebay |
| 08:56.23 | H-var | you can actually feel this weird pause after you click a button in windows. You get used to it, so you stop noticing it, that's until you install something like debian |
| 08:56.54 | ratrace | I guess you never used GNOME :)) |
| 08:57.00 | H-var | in debian when I click something, things happen so fast, I swear it gives me anxiety. I constantly feel like I pressed something wrong lol |
| 08:57.46 | n4dir | learned to not leave the windows open while sleeping, 3 stoneage laptops stolen. from 256 to 1 Gig of Ram ... |
| 08:58.10 | H-var | lol gnome - I wannabe macos, but I also kinda wannabe android, but I haven't decided yet, so this is how I look. Am I ugly???? |
| 08:58.14 | H-var | yes, gnome, you're ugly |
| 08:58.22 | H-var | that's why we call you gnome |
| 09:00.14 | ratrace | and KDE's compositor is "kwin" because a dev went "hmmmm, what should I replicate.... dos, windows or osx? k, win!" |
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| 09:00.44 | H-var | that's why microsoft called it windows - your sh*t is being silently stolen while they are opened |
| 09:01.46 | H-var | ratrace kde5 does not look anything like any other OS |
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| 09:02.19 | H-var | you can actually customize it in any way possible and make it look like anything, if you wish |
| 09:04.25 | ratrace | H-var: I guess you never used KDE in the olden days, pre plasma |
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| 09:08.36 | H-var | yes, I used it, but those were the old days |
| 09:08.56 | ratrace | then you know all about copying the windows UI paradigm :) |
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| 09:09.24 | ratrace | complete with a "start" button, the taskbar, the tray, ... |
| 09:10.32 | H-var | we've all been stupid kids one day, and then we grew up, and turned into grown ups who use KDE |
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| 09:11.11 | H-var | everyone made mistakes, but we judge people by their will to change, and changes as they grow up |
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| 09:11.39 | H-var | not for what horrible things they did to KDE when they were kids |
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| 09:18.59 | Mava42 | this is old stuff but i'm as well: I remember sunray thinclients and possibility to use smartcard to login - when changed to another thinclient, same desktop with same software just were I left those appeared on the screen. Is there a term for that technology and does it exist in Linux still? Is it VDI or related to terminal server project? |
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| 09:30.37 | SpearRaven | hi guys. I lost internet on my Debian somehow. Where/what logs can I check to see where it failed please |
| 09:31.00 | tete_ | ip addr show |
| 09:31.12 | tete_ | and journalctl -xe maybe |
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| 09:31.35 | SpearRaven | after apt upgrade I did a apt autoremove even though it wasn't suggested. was fine till i rebooted |
| 09:31.46 | tete_ | first try to ping your router |
| 09:32.19 | Fox | SpearRaven: wifi or ethernet ? |
| 09:32.22 | tete_ | this can be _anything_ - you must check some things, i mean it can be that your cable is just broken from your machine to your router |
| 09:32.39 | ratrace | no, first define what is controlling your network: wifi, ethernet; ifupdown (networking.service) or NetworkManager, or something else |
| 09:32.45 | SpearRaven | it's a VM, this is also a VM but fine |
| 09:33.02 | Fox | if it's wifi and you lost network after reboot you might have changed kernel and don't have the driver for the new kernel |
| 09:33.35 | H-var | https://i.ibb.co/BTbjGW3/ss.png |
| 09:33.37 | SpearRaven | journalctl - xe gave this as a clue .. xfce4-notifyd[3221]: Couldn't connect to accessibility bus: Failed to connect to socket /tmp/dbus-JVGxzNpvnJ: Connection refused |
| 09:34.03 | SpearRaven | i think the autoremove removed something it shouldn't have |
| 09:34.16 | SpearRaven | i shouldn't have done that |
| 09:34.42 | SpearRaven | after i upgraded it with apt upgrade |
| 09:34.49 | n4dir | /var/log/apt/history.log |
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| 09:35.26 | SpearRaven | I can make a new Debian VM but I put a lot of work into it and I also want to learn this kind of troubleshooting |
| 09:35.53 | SpearRaven | It's Testing as well, not stable |
| 09:36.19 | tete_ | <tete_> first try to ping your router |
| 09:36.57 | SpearRaven | thanks i'll try those things |
| 09:37.09 | tete_ | if you dont know your router, then just enter "route" in the console |
| 09:37.30 | tete_ | inside the vm of course |
| 09:37.31 | SpearRaven | curiously, pulseaudio also isn't working |
| 09:37.41 | SpearRaven | says it cant connect to the pulseaudio server |
| 09:37.49 | SpearRaven | but sound shouldn't need the internet |
| 09:38.19 | SpearRaven | on kernel 5.9.0.2 |
| 09:38.27 | SpearRaven | sorry, 5.8.0.2 |
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| 09:38.51 | SpearRaven | sorry again, haha 5.7.0.2 |
| 09:39.28 | SpearRaven | as I was also upgrading to whatever latest kernel i could use |
| 09:41.52 | SpearRaven | I also notice that when it loads, the screen shows some commands running down the screen as usual, but then it goes black and stays that way for a while until it eventually gives me the login screen |
| 09:42.00 | ratrace | !debian-next |
| 09:42.00 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc |
| 09:42.35 | ratrace | but anyway... you debug this step by step: what controls your network is the first step, then you check the IP, dhcp, routing, pinging, ... |
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| 09:43.24 | SpearRaven | ok thanks i think autoremove killed some lib** something off but i'll see what some steps here show |
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| 10:10.21 | SpearRaven | ok, it's Kernel: 5.8.0-2-amd64 |
| 10:10.41 | SpearRaven | and Thanks n4dir |
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| 10:11.01 | SpearRaven | that history.log |
| 10:11.05 | SpearRaven | Start-Date: 2020-10-03 06:32:02 |
| 10:11.05 | SpearRaven | Commandline: apt autoremove |
| 10:11.05 | SpearRaven | Requested-By: user (1000) |
| 10:11.05 | SpearRaven | Remove: libdc1394-22:amd64 (2.2.5-2.1), libsnmp35:amd64 (5.8+dfsg-5), libsnmp35:i386 (5.8+dfsg-5), libmozjs-68-0:amd64 (68.12.0-2) |
| 10:11.05 | SpearRaven | End-Date: 2020-10-03 06:32:03 |
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| 10:11.28 | n4dir | yeah, got that it was about that log file. Good luck, gotta run |
| 10:12.48 | n4dir | i doubt that is the problem, but if i am not wrong usually one always has older kernels around which one might boot. I'd go with what ratrace posted last though |
| 10:14.02 | ratrace | n4dir: they got kicked for flooding... |
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| 10:22.13 | oxek | the flood protection is overzealous nowadays. Few people flood spam. |
| 10:24.21 | n4dir | <PROTECTED> |
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| 10:26.25 | themill | oxek: um, yeah, no. |
| 10:26.37 | rk4 | heh, couldn't even startx on the T14 with stable kernel, switched to bpo kernel and i can make it as far as running i3 :) |
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| 10:27.32 | fredl | 'morning folks |
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| 10:29.38 | jelly | rk4, kernel+fw is bare minimum, and you may need other things upgraded for (more) complete hw support |
| 10:29.52 | jelly | like mesa/dri/xorg bits |
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| 10:33.14 | rk4 | nods |
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| 11:54.51 | oxek | is it something to be concerned about that installing 'lxc' package will remove 'busybox' package? |
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| 11:59.34 | dirdi | lxc depends on busybox-static which replaces busybox - nothing to be concerned about |
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| 12:01.34 | dirdi | run $apt show busybox-static for more info |
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| 12:06.23 | oxek | dirdi: thanks. So anything that is currently using 'busybox' will not notice a difference because busybox-static is the same thing. |
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| 12:07.55 | dirdi | exactly. The only disadvantage is that busybox-static takes up about 2MiB more space on your drive |
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| 12:53.11 | ole_ | Hi, I can't find information how to configure the suspend/hibernate on low battery. Currently, my laptop suspends when the battery is very close to zero, and therefore oftentimes runs out of juice shortly afterwards. I would like to configure it to suspend on ~5% battery left. Can I do that somehow? |
| 12:54.16 | petn-randall | ole_: If you are running gnome that is something you configure in the power settings. |
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| 12:59.48 | ole_ | @petn-randall, I am running i3wm, I normally configure such things outside of X |
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| 13:14.37 | petn-randall | ole_: Ah, no idea how i3wm handles it. |
| 13:14.57 | dirdi | Pretty sure i3wm does not handle that at all |
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| 13:18.10 | ratrace | ole_: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/84437/how-do-i-make-my-laptop-sleep-when-it-reaches-some-low-battery-threshold and there's a bunch of other DIY scripts, some based on udev notifications, some cron'd like this |
| 13:18.29 | ratrace | (if you google for "i3wm suspend on low battery") |
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| 13:26.57 | ole_ | thanks, @ratrace , it seems that on my box it's UPower doing the suspending on low battery. Now I can configure thresholds. |
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| 13:43.02 | SanchoPensa | hi, everybody! |
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| 13:44.03 | SanchoPensa | I am trying to install ardour 6.3 from buster-backports through "sudo apt-get -t buster-backports install ardour". Unfortunately, I keep getting version 5.12 not so much from Backports. What am I missing? |
| 13:44.09 | H-var | did you guys see my KDE5 desktop? B-) |
| 13:44.47 | H-var | https://i.ibb.co/p4z2Gwv/ss.png |
| 13:45.13 | Haohmaru | SanchoPensa have you installed other things from backports successiffuly? |
| 13:45.27 | H-var | how can I make the nvidia proprietary driver load its settings on reboot? I have to open the app each time debian starts. After I simply open it, the settings are applied automatically |
| 13:45.33 | petn-randall | ,v ardour |
| 13:45.34 | judd | Package: ardour on amd64 -- jessie: 1:2.8.16+git20131003+dfsg1-1~deb8u1; stretch: 1:5.5.0~dfsg-1+b1; buster: 1:5.12.0-3; bullseye: 1:6.3.0+ds0-1; sid: 1:6.3.0+ds0-1 |
| 13:45.46 | SanchoPensa | Haohmaru: yes, I think so, but long time ago, don't ask me, what it was... |
| 13:46.00 | Haohmaru | huh, it's not there ^ |
| 13:46.10 | petn-randall | SanchoPensa: There's no ardour in buster-backports ... |
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| 13:46.39 | petn-randall | H-var: Which settings are we talking about? |
| 13:46.52 | H-var | the nvidia proprietary driver one |
| 13:46.54 | SanchoPensa | petn-randall: Isn't this it: bullseye: 1:6.3.0+ds0-1? |
| 13:47.04 | Haohmaru | nope |
| 13:47.16 | Haohmaru | that's debian-next |
| 13:47.33 | SanchoPensa | Haohmaru: as in "testing"? |
| 13:47.46 | Haohmaru | uhm, yeah-ish i think |
| 13:47.55 | H-var | it's called "NVIDIA X Server Settings" |
| 13:48.04 | Haohmaru | (coffee levels are low) |
| 13:48.08 | SanchoPensa | Haohmaru: isn't that, where the backports come from? |
| 13:48.31 | Haohmaru | yes.. but backports appears as a sepparate thing |
| 13:48.37 | Haohmaru | ,v kicad |
| 13:48.38 | judd | Package: kicad on amd64 -- jessie: 0.20140622+bzr4027-3; stretch: 4.0.5+dfsg1-4; stretch-backports: 5.0.2+dfsg1-1~bpo9+1; buster: 5.0.2+dfsg1-1; stretch-backports-sloppy: 5.1.6+dfsg1-1~bpo9+1; buster-backports: 5.1.7+dfsg1-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 5.1.7+dfsg1-1; sid: 5.1.7+dfsg1-1 |
| 13:48.44 | Haohmaru | look ^ |
| 13:48.52 | H-var | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:49.11 | SanchoPensa | Haohmaru: oooh... I see... :( |
| 13:49.52 | SanchoPensa | that must probably mean, that some dependencies are not satisfied in buster...? |
| 13:50.07 | Haohmaru | or.. no one has built it |
| 13:50.14 | Haohmaru | ..yet |
| 13:50.19 | SanchoPensa | hmmm... |
| 13:50.30 | SanchoPensa | well it is pretty new, 20th of September, or so... |
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| 13:55.16 | greycat | Stretch, nginx and libssl backported from buster. How do I diagnose and fix: suddenly this morning, https: is timing out or showing PR_END_OF_FILE_ERROR but http: works fine. |
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| 13:56.00 | Haohmaru | eyeballz the greycat |
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| 13:57.57 | greycat | Oh bloody fuck, now a *GOOGLE SEARCH* is timing out... is the problem on *MY* (client) end?! |
| 13:58.21 | ratrace | eyeballz Haohmaru eyeballzing the greycat |
| 13:58.34 | Haohmaru | is greycat actually asking a question? |
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| 13:58.47 | ratrace | greycat: try with another client. browser, curl, wget |
| 14:00.19 | greycat | Now I'm being teased with http://www.google.com/ results that seem to describe my problem but point to pages that can't open because of my problem. |
| 14:01.01 | tarzeau | links2 and netsurf! |
| 14:01.21 | greycat | lynx: Can't access startfile https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1267590 |
| 14:01.31 | Haohmaru | greycat is your date/time sane? |
| 14:01.46 | greycat | what in the HELL is going onThu Oct 8 10:01:44 EDT 2020 |
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| 14:02.11 | ratrace | greycat: try with another client? browser, curl, wget? openssl s_client ? |
| 14:02.43 | greycat | I did. I'm seeing the problem in firefox-esr, and google-chrome-stable, and lynx. |
| 14:02.47 | Haohmaru | so, some https websites ain't loading cuz of the encryption failing? |
| 14:03.19 | ratrace | greycat: if you backported libssl but didn't backport _all_ the clients linking to it, that's teh problem |
| 14:03.27 | ratrace | backported or rebuilt |
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| 14:04.25 | greycat | ratrace: I'm no longer looking at the web server. I initially thought that was the problem, but it seems the problem is on MY side, the BROWSER side. I can't access any https sites at all. In any browser. Is this my ISP being extra broken? |
| 14:04.43 | ratrace | possibru |
| 14:04.57 | ratrace | in the middle of installing a DPI sniffer :) |
| 14:04.58 | Haohmaru | greycat how about IRC with ssl? |
| 14:05.14 | greycat | I'm in that right now. |
| 14:05.15 | Haohmaru | or sumfin else |
| 14:05.21 | greycat | ssh works. irssi works. |
| 14:05.25 | Haohmaru | so that wurkz at least |
| 14:05.43 | Haohmaru | heh, IRC is all u need ;P~ |
| 14:05.51 | Haohmaru | hides |
| 14:05.53 | ratrace | so, curl/wget/openssl s_client work, but browsers don't? |
| 14:06.54 | greycat | I never said that. Trying wget now. It is appearing to time out. |
| 14:07.01 | greycat | Connecting to support.mozilla.org (support.mozilla.org)|52.11.181.174|:443... connected. |
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| 14:09.22 | petn-randall | H-var: You probably have to put the app into autostart for it to work then. |
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| 14:10.20 | greycat | GnuTLS: An unexpected TLS packet was received. |
| 14:10.20 | greycat | Unable to establish SSL connection. |
| 14:10.59 | ratrace | greycat: try via sockproxy through one of your servers. that might indicate your ISP is messing with you |
| 14:11.06 | greycat | This just started happening *suddenly*, this morning, less than an hour ago. It's affecting every port 443 connection from every browser, including existing open tabs like discord. |
| 14:11.12 | ratrace | (or if you have any VPN there...) |
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| 14:11.34 | petn-randall | TIL greycat uses discord. |
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| 14:11.44 | joelchrono12 | Hello whats up |
| 14:12.24 | ratrace | the sky, clouds... |
| 14:13.04 | joelchrono12 | Dude, thats deep |
| 14:13.18 | joelchrono12 | I mean, high |
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| 14:27.25 | oskie | how would you get the version of some installed package X in a bash script? |
| 14:29.22 | petn-randall | oskie: Most programs have a --version parameter, or you could parse the output of `dpkg -l libfoo`. |
| 14:29.38 | tarzeau | oskie: dpkg -l |tail -1 | awk '{print $2 " " $3}' |
| 14:29.59 | oskie | ok, thanks, i guess i'll use something like that |
| 14:30.37 | tarzeau | petn-randall: there's too many that do not. or only -v or -V (and some mean verbose) |
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| 14:36.24 | petn-randall | tarzeau: Sure, just giving options. |
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| 14:38.43 | dirdi | oskie: Just another alternative: $ apt policy <PACKAGE_NAME> |
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| 14:42.51 | ratrace | wonders if greycat solved it |
| 14:43.49 | greycat | I am attepting to "chat" with their service via a web browser running at work accessed over VNC. |
| 14:44.38 | Haohmaru | turns on greycat's CAPS LOCK |
| 14:45.14 | ratrace | greycat: so you at least confirmed that your client side is okay, might be the ISP? |
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| 14:59.25 | tgunr | Anyone else here using fireqos? |
| 14:59.38 | ratrace | !anyone |
| 14:59.39 | dpkg | Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>. |
| 14:59.51 | joelchrono12 | What is fireqos |
| 14:59.54 | tgunr | Give me a sec dude |
| 15:00.15 | tgunr | Trying to make a rule which needs a NOT condition match |
| 15:01.03 | tgunr | https://firehol.org |
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| 15:04.50 | joelchrono12 | exit |
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| 15:15.33 | SanchoPensa | Haohmaru: ok. I compiled it myself. Up and running! :) |
| 15:16.14 | Haohmaru | brave |
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| 15:29.21 | queip | there are 2 upgrades, but aptitude upgrade skips them |
| 15:29.40 | queip | one of them is thunderbird. viewing it in just `aptitude` says something about it being broken dependency |
| 15:29.49 | queip | is there some problem with that package now? |
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| 15:30.24 | queip | dep. on libbotan is unsatified |
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| 15:31.29 | sney | if 'apt upgrade' won't move a package or two, 'apt full-upgrade' is the next thing to try. though be careful that it doesn't remove something you need. |
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| 15:31.57 | queip | apt upgrades says that lightning and thunderbird have been kept back |
| 15:32.06 | sney | the situation you describe is more common in testing/unstable, also, or with using 3rd party repos with malformed dependencies. what debian version is this? |
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| 15:32.32 | queip | it says it will remove enigmail if I upgrade thunderbird |
| 15:33.12 | queip | debian stable using main and contrib repos only |
| 15:33.52 | sney | oh I see, it's the upgrade to 78.3 |
| 15:34.10 | sney | well, there's your choice. if you don't need enigmail then let it proceed. if you do? |
| 15:34.53 | queip | identical problem on other debian 10 box. so it seems thunderbird enigmail was just removed from debian? |
| 15:35.11 | queip | sney: I use openpgp in emails |
| 15:35.52 | sney | thunderbird in stable was upgraded from 68.12 to 78.3.1 a couple days ago. it's more significant than most stable bugfix updates |
| 15:35.55 | queip | The 78.x series discontinues support for some addons. Also, starting with 78, Thunderbird supports OpenPGP natively. If you are currently using the Enigmail addon for PGP, please refer to the included NEWS and README.Debian.gz files for information on how to migrate your keys. |
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| 15:36.04 | queip | oh yeaaah. enigmail really sucked. |
| 15:36.05 | sney | and there you go |
| 15:37.23 | joelchrono12 | Hello again lol |
| 15:38.08 | queip | finally something positive happened in debian, and without waiting years for 11 |
| 15:42.04 | joelchrono12 | Thanks, I did not know I was that valuable |
| 15:42.20 | sney | lol |
| 15:42.48 | joelchrono12 | What are you talking about btw |
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| 15:44.55 | sney | mozilla esr releases aren't synced up with debian stable releases, so stable just got firefox-esr 78 and thunderbird 78. queip is happy about a change in the latter. mozilla gets the credit though really |
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| 15:50.47 | dka- | Hello, I want to connect all the host from the right using a VPN so they can all contact the NAS : https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1866564/95482641-a8fb9c80-098e-11eb-86f0-aff49aad97d6.png I am thinking to use Wireguard VPN for that job, where should I put the client and the server? |
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| 15:57.03 | queip | it says thunderbird now callects telemetry. wth |
| 15:57.39 | queip | dissapointing debian didn't patch it out to opt-out by default |
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| 15:58.31 | greycat | is there *any* reason to think that rebooting my Debian PC would fix my "all https sites time out" issue? |
| 15:58.46 | greycat | I cannot think of anything more to try. |
| 15:59.10 | ratrace | greycat: *any* ....... libssl ASLR'd in the region of memory that's faulty. reboot, and it ASLR'd elsewhere |
| 15:59.19 | greycat | centurylink support claims they've done nothing wrong |
| 15:59.40 | greycat | ratrace: libssl *and* gnutls...? |
| 15:59.46 | ratrace | hrm |
| 16:00.44 | queip | greycat: strace what wget does? |
| 16:00.49 | queip | or rather, gdb |
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| 16:01.30 | unixbsd | Hello |
| 16:01.50 | unixbsd | Is there a opensource software to draw H2SO4 and chemistry compounds? |
| 16:02.44 | sney | ,i gromacs |
| 16:02.45 | judd | Package gromacs (science, optional) in buster/amd64: Molecular dynamics simulator, with building and analysis tools. Version: 2019.1-1; Size: 124.3k; Installed: 473k; Homepage: http://www.gromacs.org/ |
| 16:02.59 | sney | one of many that popped up when I googled "linux chemistry" just now |
| 16:07.00 | unixbsd | In 2D with GTK or something alike would be cool. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/41/Nitrite-ion-lewis-canonical.png/500px-Nitrite-ion-lewis-canonical.png |
| 16:07.13 | unixbsd | gromacs looks pretty cool anyhow. |
| 16:09.05 | unixbsd | I am looking and this would be intresting https://www.researchgate.net/post/Any_good_open-source_software_to_draw_sketch_molecules maybe there is a soft, opensource. hopefully. |
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| 16:12.17 | unixbsd | http://ruby.chemie.uni-freiburg.de/~martin/chemtool/usage.html looks good one |
| 16:13.13 | sney | when I googled for 'linux chemistry' one of the first results was an article with a list of about 12 applications. I recommend looking at that list yourself, since I haven't done anything with chemistry since high school, and this channel probably doesn't have a lot of idling chem engineers |
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| 16:18.14 | queip | the promised wizard related to importing pgp identities, did not start with thunderbird |
| 16:18.25 | queip | why doesnt new thunder see my keys from gpg |
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| 16:27.32 | queip | ok the new thunderbird with build in pgp is bad. dang |
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| 16:29.46 | queip | is there any not bad email client in Debian? like, supporting pgp via gpg? |
| 16:30.32 | queip | kmail seems to be disabled due to the Akonadi fiasco |
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| 16:35.11 | sigint | greycat, if that's any help, for me http working but https having weird issues is usually related to MTU problems |
| 16:35.28 | ratrace | gonecat |
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| 16:36.50 | greycat | I'm here... |
| 16:36.59 | dka- | How do I decide which host is the VPN client and which is the VPN server? |
| 16:37.05 | ratrace | oh |
| 16:37.07 | greycat | at this opint it has to be either the ISP or my stupid router |
| 16:38.30 | hop | dka-: can you elaborate? |
| 16:38.45 | hop | dka-: are we talking about an existing setup? |
| 16:38.55 | hop | dka-: are you asking which one you /should/ make the server? |
| 16:41.39 | dka- | yes |
| 16:41.58 | dka- | It's an existing setup, I have 3 OVH server in a private cloud all with lan and public ips |
| 16:42.14 | dka- | I also have in my home network a NAS, a Debian server, and the FAI gateway where I can just route the traffic |
| 16:42.27 | dka- | I was thinking to use the Debian server and one of the OVH host to create a tunnel |
| 16:42.48 | dka- | My end goal is that the 3 OVH hosts (all debian server) have an access to the nas so it can perform rsync operations |
| 16:42.56 | sney | the simplest approach is to do all of your routing in one place, e.g. the router as the vpn node |
| 16:43.18 | dka- | I am about to install wireguard between master-letort-01 and master-rbx-01 : https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1866564/95482641-a8fb9c80-098e-11eb-86f0-aff49aad97d6.png , I just can't decide which one should be the client and which one should be the server |
| 16:43.42 | sney | doesn't really matter if it's the server or client, though you can always figure out where the higher cpu overhead would be, and then make ovh handle that end |
| 16:44.26 | dob1 | is there any proxy that can convert http to https traffic? |
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| 16:45.16 | sney | nginx, but probably not in the way you mean |
| 16:45.33 | dka- | where the higher CPU overhad would be? The server? Is that true or an assumption? |
| 16:45.51 | dka- | One just told me that just the server can accept multiple client, so to me it should be on my LAN so I can reuse that server to connect a different platform |
| 16:46.02 | dka- | But I wonder if that second assertion is also true, perhaps some VPN can act as both client and server |
| 16:46.04 | dob1 | sney, I want something in the middle that manages the certificates while I am using http |
| 16:46.44 | sigint | dob1, it's not clear if you mean forward proxy or reverse proxy |
| 16:46.52 | dob1 | sigint, forward |
| 16:47.12 | dob1 | stunnel ? I found this searching on google |
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| 16:47.36 | sney | turning traffic into https after it's been unencryted http on the public internet has no benefits |
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| 16:50.05 | dob1 | sney, I have an application (very old) that can just communicate via http but the server where it was connecting now use https so it doesn't work anymore |
| 16:50.30 | dob1 | I was thinking a solution like this before dismiss it |
| 16:51.27 | sney | you could probably do some hacky stuff with nginx for that, but it may be better to find the new version of that app or a replacement |
| 16:51.44 | sney | the site probably deprecated http on purpose |
| 16:51.51 | dob1 | sney, I would but it doesn't depend on me now |
| 16:52.03 | dob1 | and they are doing right, for sure |
| 16:52.57 | sigint | dob1, it's a bit weird but doesn't sound too complicated |
| 16:53.45 | dob1 | sigint, with nginx? I am just aware how to do reverse proxy with ngix not this type of proxy |
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| 16:55.46 | sigint | I wouldn't do it on the HTTP level but rather with TCP: listen on a socket on port 80, when you receive a connection open an SSL socket on port 443 to your destination and pass bytes from one side to another |
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| 16:56.54 | sigint | I'm sure you can find existing software that does that, but I cannot tell you for sure which one |
| 16:57.06 | dob1 | I am looking at this stunnel4 |
| 16:57.10 | sigint | Just that if you don't find any, you can hack something in 20 lines of Python or Go |
| 16:58.39 | dob1 | sigint, I will take a look |
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| 17:00.39 | sigint | dob1, see for example https://github.com/ghostunnel/ghostunnel in client mode |
| 17:01.11 | dirdi | dob1: take a look at man openssl-s_client |
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| 17:01.49 | dirdi | dob1: socat should also be capable to do this |
| 17:01.59 | dirdi | apropos socat |
| 17:02.07 | dob1 | I know socat. I was thinking of it but not too much :) |
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| 17:07.29 | dka- | I have a NAS synology server where I can run a VPN server that can be PPTP, OpenVPN or L2TP/IPSec. I want 3 dedicated debian server within a private network to rsync their data to the NAS. Which service should I choose ? (Considering I have only those choices because I am on the NAS, I have not considered using on of the dedicated debian server) |
| 17:08.41 | sney | openvpn will probably be the best option from those 3, if you're setting up both ends of it |
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| 17:14.17 | dka- | Ok, but I want to use only one client, so two of the three will need to use routing. I am concerned because OpenVPN create a tun interface instead of using the private network interface, how will I perform the routing? |
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| 17:22.56 | sigint | dka-, you described the problem quite well, if you want to use this approach you will need one host to route traffic between the network of your dedicated servers and your VPN |
| 17:23.32 | sigint | This is why a good place for the VPN termination is between two routers |
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| 17:24.18 | sigint | Now it seems that in your network you don't have a router (your dedicated servers have both public and internal interfaces) |
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| 17:25.08 | dka- | Let's say I have NAS(OpenVPN server) -> Router(A) <-> Host(A) <-> Host(B + C), how can B and C contact NAS ? To me, A will have a tun interface so it will be able to access the NAS, but I don't know if I can route the traffic of A and B to the tun interface |
| 17:25.11 | sigint | So you need to add one, either you pick one host for that or you create a new host (can be a VM I think) for doint this |
| 17:25.33 | dirdi | dka-: using rsync over ssh is not an option? Setting up a VPN just for a backup seems a bit overkill to me. |
| 17:25.43 | dka- | (sigint, I will just use one of them as a gateway, since they are all connected in a private network) |
| 17:26.23 | dka- | is it dirdi ? I tought the VPN connection was more convenient |
| 17:27.19 | sigint | dka-, so you're good to go, on your two hosts that are not connected to the VPN you will just have to add a route through your third host |
| 17:27.38 | dirdi | Yes, ff your NAS can connect to the servers via ssh (or vice versa). In this case you can just use rsync's built-in ssh support |
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| 17:27.47 | sigint | but I agree with dirdi, seems a bit overkill |
| 17:29.40 | dob1 | I was able with stunnel to do this, but maybe for sure I miss some networking knowledge: every program I found (even the one you linked) require a client listening and a site to connect, it cannot do it automatically for every http connection ? listening on a certaing port when a connection arrive tunnel it to https |
| 17:31.53 | karlpinc | dob1: I don't know what you're trying to do, but just about anything can be done with socat. nc (netcat) is a bit more limited. |
| 17:32.15 | dob1 | karlpinc, you still have to specify WHERE it has to connect |
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| 17:34.00 | karlpinc | Is there a way to find all the packages which put something into /usr/share/pam-configs/? apt-file is good for files, but I want a whole path. (Plus, it's a config, maybe? Searching for configs is always a problem for me.) |
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| 17:39.19 | dirdi | dob1: you mean you want to connect to arbitray https servers, without specifying those in advance? |
| 17:39.24 | dka- | can rsync command be a process ? like dropbox? |
| 17:39.31 | dob1 | dirdi, yes |
| 17:40.11 | dob1 | dirdi, on the application I can set the http proxy host/port, then I want the proxy to do all the work, if an incoming http request arrive tunnel it to https |
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| 17:42.02 | dirdi | dob1: OK sorry, thought you only have to connect to one certain server |
| 17:42.31 | dob1 | dirdi, if it's possible I would prefer a setup like this, because I can specify http proxy on this application |
| 17:42.44 | dob1 | no need to be sorry, I am just asking :) |
| 17:42.58 | dirdi | Does it support socks proxy? |
| 17:43.21 | karlpinc | dob1: You want something like squidproxy or tinyproxy? |
| 17:43.51 | dob1 | karlpinc, but they don't tunnel http to https they are just proxy |
| 17:43.57 | dob1 | caching proxy at least |
| 17:44.02 | dirdi | dka-: rsync will terminate after it has finished its job. But of course you can run it periodicaly by setting up a cronjob |
| 17:44.25 | dka- | I'm looking at v |
| 17:44.30 | dka- | https://github.com/axkibe/lsyncd |
| 17:45.35 | dirdi | dka-: if you want to immediately push new files to the backup NAS you could combine rsync with entr |
| 17:45.48 | dka- | entr? |
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| 17:47.12 | dirdi | dka-: https://github.com/eradman/entr - entr watches files or whole directories for changes and execute an arbitrary command if a file changes / was created / deleted etc |
| 17:47.55 | dka- | that's what lsync does |
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| 17:48.25 | dka- | The two has just been given by two random irc, isn't there a top player for that job? |
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| 17:50.12 | unixbsd | Thank you |
| 17:50.58 | unixbsd | I could remake a little xchemtool based on X11 and it works very fine (only one file and no amazing automake and all crap : https://termbin.com/mp5n <--- xchemtool.c ) |
| 17:51.40 | karlpinc | Humm. sources.debian.org allows me to do that sort of search. |
| 17:51.44 | sigint | dob1, do you have multiple servers to connect to? Because you either have to tell the proxy where to connect to in the config OR have your client and proxy use a common protocol for describing where to connect to |
| 17:52.39 | sigint | This protocol can either be HTTP or the "proxy protocol" |
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| 17:53.22 | sigint | but if your client doesn't support HTTPS I guess it doesn't support proxies so you have to use something transparent |
| 17:54.10 | dob1 | sigint, I was thinking to listen on varius ports depending where I need to connect with stunnel, then having a list of sites, using iptables to redirect to the right port stunnel is listing depending on the host... something like this. just an idea I don't know if it makes sense |
| 17:54.48 | karlpinc | dob1: https://serverfault.com/questions/907490/forward-proxy-convert-http-to-https It says to use squid with a small external script. |
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| 17:59.16 | dirdi | dka-: I can only say what I would use. My preffered solution would be running a cronjob on the NAS to pull the files from the servers at a regular interval. If you want to transfer the files immediately you have to push them from the servers to the NAS using a tool like entr. I have never used lsync before, but it may very well be the better tool for this purpose. |
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| 18:03.20 | dob1 | karlpinc, thanks, I will take a look |
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| 18:10.08 | karlpinc | dob1: Squid does not seem lightweight. So long as you're scripting you could use socat for a listening port, your script, and socat or maybe stunnel for your outbound. Dunno. |
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| 18:19.38 | CommunistWolf | I've used ziproxy in the past for a little proxy |
| 18:19.48 | CommunistWolf | might not be enough |
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| 18:19.51 | Franciman | Hi |
| 18:19.56 | Franciman | how can I see udev events? |
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| 18:20.30 | Franciman | I think I almost found the source of my networking evils |
| 18:20.32 | LuxInterior | CommunistWolf: so your antiwolf? |
| 18:20.49 | CommunistWolf | I am very much in favour of wolves |
| 18:21.10 | sney | Franciman: should all be in journalctl I would think |
| 18:21.19 | Franciman | sney, drat I can't see a THING |
| 18:21.29 | Franciman | I mean my network fails, and I see no disconnect in wpa_supplicant events |
| 18:21.40 | Franciman | this is quite misterious, isn't it? |
| 18:21.47 | Franciman | maybe I don't have logging set to ULTRA NOISE? |
| 18:21.58 | sney | there's probably a debug option somewhere, yeah |
| 18:22.14 | Franciman | I think my wifi adapter fails, because of a bluetooth resume event |
| 18:22.29 | sney | is that a combo adapter? |
| 18:22.31 | Franciman | that gets misinterpreted, in fact in the oem ubuntu I have (sorry) |
| 18:22.36 | Franciman | I have this udev hook: |
| 18:24.16 | Franciman | sney, https://bpa.st/FW6Q |
| 18:24.20 | Franciman | yes it's a combo adapter |
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| 18:24.53 | Franciman | https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qca9377 its this one |
| 18:28.01 | sney | funny that there's a workaround from ubuntu but no bug on the bts that I can find |
| 18:28.20 | sney | unless it's a regression to #877711 |
| 18:28.22 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/877711 in firmware-atheros (closed, upstream): «firmware-atheros: Wifi connection becomes unreliable after upgrade to 20170823-1»; severity: important; opened: 2017-10-04; last modified: 2018-08-31. |
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| 18:31.05 | Franciman | not sure it's that one |
| 18:31.07 | Franciman | well |
| 18:31.15 | Franciman | sney, how can I enable the extra debug? |
| 18:32.11 | Franciman | i want to know when the hell of single bit gets switched |
| 18:32.41 | sney | looks like udevadm control --log-priority=debug. see 'man udevadm' for details |
| 18:33.14 | Franciman | danke |
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| 18:46.33 | Franciman | sorry a question |
| 18:46.44 | Franciman | how can I see what is the firmware used for my wifi adapter? |
| 18:47.51 | Aurora_v_kosmose | I don't suppose there's anything like yq (https://github.com/mikefarah/yq) packaged into Debian? |
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| 18:50.18 | sigint | dob1, I made a POC for the proxy thing in Python: https://paste.debian.net/1166400 |
| 18:50.55 | sney | Franciman: 'dmesg| grep -i firmware' will usually show you the load messages |
| 18:51.05 | Franciman | oh thanks |
| 18:51.33 | sney | 'modinfo ath10k_pci' would also have a list of supported files |
| 18:52.03 | dob1 | sigint, are you sure it can work? I don't think you can just forward as it is |
| 18:52.10 | sigint | dob1, with it you don't need to listen on multiple ports as it uses the HTTP host header to know where to connect |
| 18:52.24 | sigint | you still need a bit of iptables magic |
| 18:52.32 | dob1 | ah ! |
| 18:52.33 | dob1 | ok |
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| 18:52.40 | Franciman | sney, then how do I know which firmware.bin file is used specifically? |
| 18:53.04 | dob1 | sigint, thanks a lot |
| 18:53.21 | sney | Franciman: did you look at dmesg yet? |
| 18:53.35 | Franciman | yes |
| 18:53.37 | Franciman | not written |
| 18:54.15 | Franciman | [ 5.499013] ath10k_pci 0000:02:00.0: firmware ver WLAN.RM.4.4.1-00079-QCARMSWPZ-1 api 6 features wowlan,ignore-otp crc32 fd869beb |
| 18:54.17 | Franciman | there is only this |
| 18:54.23 | tradar | Franciman: try lsmod |
| 18:54.43 | sney | lsmod shows modules in use, not firmware files loaded by those modules |
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| 18:55.44 | sney | Franciman: well, in modinfo there are only 3 files listed for QCA9377. so it is those. |
| 18:56.21 | tradar | maybe lspci ? |
| 18:56.26 | Franciman | cuz I found out that it's not 9377, but 6174 |
| 18:56.32 | Franciman | and then there are different idrectories and files |
| 18:56.35 | tradar | lspci -v |
| 18:57.00 | sney | tradar: lspci -v and lspci -k show kernel modules in use, not firmware files loaded by those modules |
| 18:57.11 | Franciman | let me check the internet, thanks |
| 18:59.15 | sney | Franciman: I wonder if the filenames were metioned in subsequent lines in dmesg. try dmesg |grep ath10k_pci instead. |
| 19:00.23 | Franciman | yes! |
| 19:00.28 | Franciman | but it has a different name :P |
| 19:00.29 | Franciman | ahah |
| 19:00.36 | Franciman | let me see in the debian drepos |
| 19:02.21 | Franciman | found |
| 19:02.22 | Franciman | thanks a lot |
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| 19:05.28 | Aurora_v_kosmose | Franciman: So it was just listed underneath? |
| 19:05.37 | Franciman | yes |
| 19:05.45 | Franciman | and it can also be seen in lshw -c network |
| 19:05.51 | Franciman | it gives a different name |
| 19:06.03 | Franciman | but in firmware-nonfree you can check that name to which file corresponds |
| 19:06.08 | Franciman | https://packages.debian.org/buster/firmware-atheros |
| 19:06.09 | Franciman | here |
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| 20:06.23 | greycat | Well, I bought a new router. Now I get to see if I can make it work. |
| 20:07.49 | dvs | oh noes! |
| 20:08.56 | Aurora_v_kosmose | Franciman: Nice, thanks. |
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| 20:24.21 | ax562 | hi all |
| 20:24.56 | ax562 | is there any place to reference when/if buster will get any major upgrades? kernel etc.? |
| 20:25.20 | ratrace | ax562: point release announcements on mailing lists |
| 20:25.44 | ax562 | how would one get on the mailing list? |
| 20:26.09 | ax562 | nm found it |
| 20:27.26 | ratrace | ax562: also news/release notes but those are after the fact: https://www.debian.org/News/2020/20200926 |
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| 20:28.23 | azeem | ax562: also, it's unsual for Debian stable releases to get major updates of packages in point releases |
| 20:30.43 | ax562 | azeem ratrace ty! |
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| 20:31.14 | azeem | unusual* |
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| 20:44.35 | unixbsd | Hello, How to convert with opensource a CIF file to *.car (Biosym) format for GDIS ? |
| 20:47.37 | azeem | unixbsd: my first try would be openbabel |
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| 20:48.02 | jhutchins | unixbsd: Probably a better question for google than for Debian IRC. |
| 20:48.30 | unixbsd | thank you... you see, #debian rocks, openbabel looks cool |
| 20:49.45 | azeem | great, now you asked the same question in at least two other channels |
| 20:49.57 | azeem | where basically I'm the only person idling |
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| 20:54.10 | unixbsd | the solution is to get avogadro, which can open CIF files. Then Avogadro > menu > save as: file.pdb. Once CIF => pdb, it can be opened with GDIS. Gdis reads *car and pdb well. |
| 20:54.36 | azeem | great |
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| 20:55.33 | azeem | the openbabel description claims it supports CIF and PDB, but I don't know how good that support is |
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| 20:55.52 | snooky | hi all |
| 20:56.08 | azeem | unixbsd: of course, if you're on buster, avogadro uses libopenbabel for file i/o still AFAIK |
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| 21:15.40 | hop | the postrotate scripts in logrotate are not run with a full bash? |
| 21:16.34 | hop | oh, right. even found it in the man page, after searching for bin⦠|
| 21:19.31 | greycat | ratrace: I bought the new router, and replaced the old one with it, and configured it, and... https works again. So I guess it *was* the router, unless it's an incredibly weird coincidence. |
| 21:20.14 | sney | I've seen the ssl mtu thing popping up more often in networking channels recently. I wonder if there's some SP-level cargo culting going on |
| 21:21.13 | greycat | I'm not doubting your experience -- hell, I'm a relative noob at networking -- but this just started out of nowhere, while I was online. And the old router had been exhibiting other problem signs like not remembering its settings after power cycle sometimes. |
| 21:21.42 | greycat | So it was due for a good retirement. |
| 21:22.08 | sney | can't argue with that. |
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| 21:38.33 | H-var | hi, my name is Yasuka Yebai - I am a Japanese gamer girl. I just wanted to ask, if I can play Minecraft on Debian. Arigato gosaimasu |
| 21:39.21 | sney | what. |
| 21:39.32 | ratrace | nan des' ka?! |
| 21:39.35 | Betal | isn't minecraft in java? then you can |
| 21:40.09 | sney | yep, as long as MS hasn't done anything to restrict cross-compatibility, it should still run on basically anything |
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| 21:57.00 | Ingvix | Hey, how does one change weechat's python version to 3.x on debian? The weechat-python seems to provide 2.7 |
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| 21:59.57 | ratrace | Ingvix: weechat-python in buster-backports is built against python3 |
| 22:00.16 | ratrace | otherwise, you can't, not without rebuilding the package for libpython3.x |
| 22:01.30 | Ingvix | I see. I'll have a look at those buster-backports |
| 22:02.01 | H-var | just don't install bluetooth from buster-backports lol |
| 22:02.39 | Ingvix | is it badly broken? |
| 22:02.59 | Ingvix | not that intended to |
| 22:03.04 | H-var | I disabled it, and to re-enable I had to pull the battery from the motherboard |
| 22:03.27 | Ingvix | an interesting feature |
| 22:04.06 | H-var | I didn't even disable ti. I just clicked "hide visibility" or something like that |
| 22:04.38 | H-var | I guess debian took it too literally |
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| 22:05.26 | H-var | when it comes to security - debian doesn't fk around lol |
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| 22:16.08 | Ingvix | :exit |
| 22:16.24 | dvs | !exit |
| 22:16.24 | dpkg | /quit you fool! |
| 22:16.24 | Ingvix | whopsie |
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| 22:17.19 | Ingvix | :exit works for me, was just in the wrong mode |
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| 22:24.35 | H-var | wow there are actually like millions of pages with people complaining that linux won't shutdown due to issues with acpi. I can't believe it's been reported since like 2010, and it is still an issue in linux. |
| 22:25.28 | H-var | from what I understand it's because of bad bios, or badly programmed bios firmware, untested, or unsuitable for linux? |
| 22:25.41 | sney | that's because it usually works, on most hardware, and it's usually the vendor's fault, yeah |
| 22:26.06 | aurelain | It's mostly due to the fact that ACPI implementations tend to follow ACPICA rather than the spec |
| 22:26.29 | H-var | how can I make a useful bug report that I can send to the asus bios dev team? What do I need to send them? |
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| 22:27.29 | sney | reproduce the problem as minimally as possible and write down your exact procedure |
| 22:28.19 | H-var | just linux kernel version, mainboard model, bios version, and just tell them that it won't shutdown you think would be sufficient? |
| 22:29.14 | sney | I find it helps to write the exact steps to reproduce the problem |
| 22:29.26 | H-var | they probably know it |
| 22:29.30 | sney | start from a fresh install, make a list, send it in the email |
| 22:29.43 | sney | it's better to assume that you're writing the bug report to a low-level intern |
| 22:29.44 | H-var | it seems like a problem that has been around for many years... |
| 22:30.07 | H-var | yeah, I'ma gonna send it anyway |
| 22:35.26 | H-var | oh crap lol - serial number is obligatory for a proper report - "you can find serial number on the back of your motherboard" |
| 22:35.52 | sney | sometimes you can get it from dmidecode |
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| 22:38.16 | H-var | yes, dmidecode shows the serials. Nice, thanks, sney! |
| 22:38.22 | ax562 | anyone know which version of kernel debian 11 ship with? |
| 22:38.46 | sney | ax562: right now it's on 5.8.0-2 but I don't think it's a final decision yet |
| 22:38.53 | sney | ,kernels |
| 22:38.54 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.9.0-rc6-686 (5.9~rc6-1~exp1); sid: 5.8.0-2-686-pae (5.8.10-1); bullseye: 5.8.0-2-686-pae (5.8.10-1); buster-backports: 5.7.0-0.bpo.2-686 (5.7.10-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-11-686-pae (4.19.146-1); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.11-686 (4.19.146-1~deb9u1); jessie-backports: |
| 22:38.55 | judd | 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1) |
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| 22:40.35 | sney | yep, kernel team is playing with 5.9 in experimental and the freeze isn't until February and oh you left. |
| 22:41.18 | another | 5.9 should be release this or next sunday |
| 22:41.24 | another | *released |
| 22:41.54 | sney | neat, where was that announced |
| 22:42.38 | another | nowhere. but it's usually 63, 70 or 77 days |
| 22:42.53 | another | after the last release |
| 22:43.45 | sney | ah. |
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| 22:47.30 | H-var | I sent bug report :D |
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| 22:55.42 | willow | judd: there is a 5.8 kernel in buster backports as well |
| 22:56.22 | sney | judd is a bot |
| 22:56.44 | sney | !judd |
| 22:56.44 | dpkg | judd is a window into the Ultimate Debian Database (ask me about <udd>). Judd can look up package, PCI ID and kernel config information. See http://ircbots.debian.net/judd/ for detailed information, or ask me about <judd-file>, <judd-packages>, <judd-hardware>, <source judd>. |
| 22:57.09 | willow | linux-headers-5.8.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 |
| 22:57.14 | willow | ahh |
| 22:57.43 | sponix | judd is pretty awesome |
| 22:57.52 | willow | nice to know! |
| 22:59.16 | sney | 5.8 in buster-backports must have been uploaded pretty recently, I don't see it referenced anywhere yet. it is about the right time for that to happen though. |
| 22:59.33 | judd | aww, shucks *blushes* |
| 22:59.38 | willow | linux-image-5.8.0-0.bpo.2-amd64-unsigned |
| 23:02.28 | sney | hm, changelog says it was rebuilt for buster-backports almost 2 weeks ago. I wonder what the delay on the signed package (and linux-image-amd64 by extension) is |
| 23:05.43 | willow | the only thing I had to know was that with that kernel the aufs-dkms package is not compatible so if you want to use docker you need fuse-overlayfs |
| 23:06.37 | willow | easy to switch https://docs.docker.com/storage/storagedriver/overlayfs-driver/ |
| 23:06.48 | jelly | ,v aufs-dkms |
| 23:06.49 | judd | Package: aufs-dkms on amd64 -- stretch: 4.9+20161219-1; buster: 4.19+20190211-1; sid: 5.2+20190909-1.1 |
| 23:07.31 | jelly | aufs code breaks often and needs to be kept in sync with whatever kernel you use, probably |
| 23:07.34 | willow | does anyone know about getting color support in screen sessions? |
| 23:07.56 | jelly | colors work inside screen here |
| 23:08.08 | jelly | willow, which debian release? |
| 23:08.21 | sney | maybe need to set TERM |
| 23:08.33 | willow | jelly: one machine is sid the other is buster |
| 23:08.35 | jelly | TERM=screen should be default inside screen |
| 23:09.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1164] by debhelper |
| 23:09.44 | willow | i'm using a vim markdown plugin and should have nice syntax highlighting but is missing in screen |
| 23:10.05 | willow | oddly there are some colors, but most are missing |
| 23:10.42 | jelly | perhaps your tool expects 256 colors or that fancy new 24bpp arbitrary color thing |
| 23:10.59 | willow | 256 maybe. |
| 23:11.53 | jelly | willow, what is TERM set to outside screen, in your terminal emulator app? |
| 23:12.10 | jelly | which terminal emulator are you using |
| 23:12.32 | RoyK | wonders why people use screen in 2020 when tmux does the job far better |
| 23:12.55 | willow | screen.xterm-256color |
| 23:13.06 | willow | jelly: konsole |
| 23:13.43 | willow | oh sry that was TERM inside screen. outside screen it is xterm-256color |
| 23:13.45 | jelly | you should not have TERM=screen.xterm-256color OUTSIDE OF screen |
| 23:13.51 | jelly | okay |
| 23:14.07 | jelly | that seems sane, and both should have 256color capability then |
| 23:14.27 | jelly | does your vim thing work well in konsole without screen? |
| 23:14.49 | willow | yes. beautiful syntax highlighting when editing markdown .md |
| 23:15.35 | jelly | dunno then |
| 23:15.39 | willow | including language-specific syntax highlighting |
| 23:16.11 | jelly | you can try starting a separate screen session for a test with "screen -a" and see if there's a difference |
| 23:18.08 | willow | still no. |
| 23:18.11 | jelly | RoyK, screen is available almost everywhere and deals with sessions attached from multiple places with different term sizes well |
| 23:19.03 | jelly | don't have any more ideas, sorry |
| 23:19.13 | willow | thanks |
| 23:19.26 | jelly | screen.xterm-256color ought to work with 88/256 colors |
| 23:19.39 | RoyK | jelly: tmux handles both as well ;) |
| 23:19.54 | willow | i have a 256 color prompt and that becomes white as well |
| 23:20.17 | Casper26 | Casper26 |
| 23:20.38 | willow | RoyK: does tmux support remote connection? |
| 23:21.08 | RoyK | willow: not sure - I use ssh and then tmux |
| 23:21.20 | jelly | RoyK, does it handle not being present RHEL5? It's only in EPEL. |
| 23:21.51 | RoyK | jelly: rhel5 is *old* |
| 23:22.03 | jelly | really? I dod not notice. |
| 23:22.39 | RoyK | seems it's under extended life support until november, but hell, who uses that shite? |
| 23:23.04 | jelly | everyone running oracle db 10.2 or 11.2 |
| 23:23.06 | RoyK | ELS requires an additionaal fee |
| 23:23.07 | sney | prod servers that need it for some legacy reason, usually |
| 23:24.06 | jelly | I use Debian by choice. I use RHEL when $company has to. |
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| 23:24.27 | RoyK | jelly: same here |
| 23:26.14 | RoyK | a lot of these rhel people claim it's so much better because it has a longer timespan, longer support etc, but - well - eh - that includes only core packages, of which there are rather few of, so you'll end up using EPEL or some other repo, which isn't supported much anyway |
| 23:27.11 | jelly | the only thing it's good for is ticking the box in a support matrix for a piece of sw or hw |
| 23:27.30 | *** join/#debian horribleprogram (~horriblep@unaffiliated/nightcoder) |
| 23:28.02 | jelly | well I jest. They also have better device-mapper, lvm and sssd than Debian, because they employ the developers and backport every new release. |
| 23:28.52 | jelly | debian has... better e2fsprogs :-) |
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| 23:29.36 | RoyK | probably better xfs support in rhel/centos as well, since they have switched over the whole thing there |
| 23:30.05 | jelly | that too, they're committed |
| 23:30.06 | horribleprogram | udo apt-key adv --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv-key C99B11DEB97541F0; sudo apt-add-repository https://cli.github.com/packages; sudo apt update; sudo apt install gh; is their instructions, but it doesn't work |
| 23:30.25 | horribleprogram | anyone else having problems with getting the gh GitHub command working on their Debian 10 64-bit |
| 23:30.32 | horribleprogram | E: The repository 'https://cli.github.com/packages sid Release' does not have a Release file. |
| 23:30.51 | jelly | horribleprogram, which debian release are you using? |
| 23:31.04 | jelly | horribleprogram, what does "lsb_release -sc" say? |
| 23:31.13 | horribleprogram | sid |
| 23:31.23 | jelly | horribleprogram, that's not Debian 10, then |
| 23:31.27 | horribleprogram | OH |
| 23:31.56 | horribleprogram | so I have to update? |
| 23:32.01 | jelly | it might be debian unstable, or it might be a completely different distro |
| 23:32.21 | jelly | !sid |
| 23:32.21 | dpkg | hmm... sid is the codename for <unstable>, named after the kid in Toy Story that breaks toys. The great thing about running sid is that when it breaks, you get to keep ALL the pieces!! |
| 23:32.24 | horribleprogram | "Sid is forever doomed to being unstable. Sid will always be the unstable branch"Ã¥ |
| 23:32.25 | jelly | !unstable |
| 23:32.25 | dpkg | Unstable is the status of a Debian release when packages can be added at any time, that can disrupt the integrity of the whole system! Ask me about <break>. If you have to ask whether you should use it or how, you shouldn't. http://www.debian.org/releases/unstable/ http://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable . See also <testing>, <sid>, <sid faq>, <apt-listbugs>, <apt-listchanges>, <bts>. |
| 23:32.41 | RoyK | !FrankenDebian |
| 23:32.42 | dpkg | When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall> |
| 23:33.07 | horribleprogram | dpkg: !reinstall |
| 23:33.07 | dpkg | horribleprogram: I wish you would RTFM. |
| 23:33.16 | horribleprogram | ... |
| 23:33.26 | jelly | either just ! or address it with dpkg: but not both |
| 23:33.28 | sney | you don't need the ! when addressing the bot directly |
| 23:33.35 | horribleprogram | oh lol |
| 23:33.40 | jelly | also /msg dpkg stuff |
| 23:33.41 | horribleprogram | !reinstall |
| 23:33.41 | dpkg | reinstall is probably aptitude reinstall '~i' ; or COLUMNS=200 dpkg -l | awk '/^[hi]i/{print $2}' | xargs apt-get -y --reinstall install, or dpkg --get-selections > my_packages.txt , then later, dpkg --set-selections < my_packages.txt && apt-get install . See also <aptitude clone>, <debian clone>. |
| 23:35.01 | sney | and if you don't want to use clearly ubuntu-targeted instructions to add a rando 3rd party repo, it looks like they have the deb packages here https://github.com/cli/cli/releases/tag/v1.1.0 |
| 23:35.10 | *** join/#debian foul_owl (~foul_owl@75-172-120-197.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 23:35.12 | jelly | that's perhaps too terse and not applicable to get from sid back to stable |
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| 23:36.00 | horribleprogram | kk I'll just deb -i the .deb on their site ty for the link |
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| 23:36.21 | jelly | sney, those might work on an actual debian 10 (buster), who knows |
| 23:36.26 | sney | shrug |
| 23:36.59 | horribleprogram | dpkg i meant |
| 23:37.00 | dpkg | horribleprogram: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox? |
| 23:37.00 | sney | it's 5 megs and their instructions are so broad that I bet it's statically compiled |
| 23:38.04 | joepublic | dpkg: error -- this is not one. right? |
| 23:38.05 | dpkg | okay, joepublic |
| 23:38.14 | horribleprogram | yeah it works |
| 23:38.22 | horribleprogram | tysm my man |
| 23:38.50 | sney | np |
| 23:39.18 | sney | joepublic: try to avoid saying 'is' to the bot |
| 23:39.31 | sney | dpkg: forget error -- this |
| 23:39.32 | dpkg | sney: i forgot error -- this |
| 23:39.33 | joepublic | ah, point taken |
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