| 00:00.07 | astronavt | i still feel like doing this in a tty is safer |
| 00:01.16 | EmptyMessage | sponix: Nice. I need to do something similar for all the little tweaks I do in /etc/, and not just in my home directory. Stuff like setting ZDOTDIR and xorg touchpad tweaks |
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| 00:04.45 | *** join/#debian Sabaku (~Sabaku@82-65-100-232.subs.proxad.net) |
| 00:05.00 | b1ack0p | i rebooted but screen still flickering |
| 00:05.14 | b1ack0p | some things crashed i guess that doesnt let me get graphical interface |
| 00:05.23 | b1ack0p | also that doesnt let me login any tty |
| 00:06.16 | EmptyMessage | personally, at this point I would just reinstall. What do you mean it doesnt let you login to any TTY? |
| 00:06.58 | b1ack0p | EmptyMessage: it keeps flickering |
| 00:07.22 | b1ack0p | doesnt let me get into a tty |
| 00:07.36 | b1ack0p | i will try to fresh install 10 now |
| 00:07.38 | EmptyMessage | you dont happen to have an ssh server setup on this box? |
| 00:07.48 | alex11 | one advantage reinstalling does have with a new release is not having to read the release notes with a microscope and fine tooth comb, you can just casually check it later |
| 00:07.53 | alex11 | that said i think i'm going to upgrade |
| 00:08.45 | b1ack0p | no ssh server |
| 00:09.41 | b1ack0p | does debian 10 support S3 Super Savage graphics? |
| 00:10.08 | dvs | S3? That's soooooo old! |
| 00:10.17 | b1ack0p | yes 20 years old |
| 00:10.22 | EmptyMessage | yes, https://packages.debian.org/buster/xserver-xorg-video-savage |
| 00:10.36 | b1ack0p | lets see if i can start installation |
| 00:10.40 | b1ack0p | now i am on installer menu |
| 00:10.51 | b1ack0p | choosen "install" instead of "graphical install" |
| 00:10.59 | b1ack0p | but it waits here long time |
| 00:11.10 | b1ack0p | 9 also made me wait long time |
| 00:11.22 | b1ack0p | lets see if it gets into next step |
| 00:11.34 | EmptyMessage | Yeah the text installer is generally easier to click through than the gui installer IMO. The installer has a few points where it is looking for CDs and network cards and stuff, so it might pause for a bit at points |
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| 00:12.38 | b1ack0p | upgrade was going smoothly :/ |
| 00:12.43 | b1ack0p | my bad is not running it on tty |
| 00:12.51 | b1ack0p | oh |
| 00:13.01 | b1ack0p | finally! |
| 00:13.07 | b1ack0p | next step now choosing language |
| 00:13.14 | EmptyMessage | yey |
| 00:13.17 | b1ack0p | detecting hardware |
| 00:13.46 | b1ack0p | looks like it is gonna do |
| 00:13.51 | EmptyMessage | lol you dont have to narrarate it |
| 00:13.56 | b1ack0p | :p |
| 00:14.03 | b1ack0p | this machine is so amazing |
| 00:14.28 | b1ack0p | it supports all version of windows and now letting me install latest debian |
| 00:14.29 | jmcnaught | For a 20 year old laptop I would probably not select any desktop environment during the installation, and pick some lightweight window manager to install after the initial reboot. |
| 00:14.44 | b1ack0p | jmcnaught: i will try xfce |
| 00:14.45 | dvs | good idea |
| 00:15.14 | jmcnaught | or not, your call |
| 00:15.55 | EmptyMessage | b1ack0p: XFCE is a bit heavy IMO... I would run lxqt if you really need a desktop environment or fluxbox if you want something light. But XFCE is still pretty light |
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| 00:16.37 | jmcnaught | b1ack0p: how much RAM does this laptop have? |
| 00:16.49 | b1ack0p | jmcnaught: 512 |
| 00:17.07 | b1ack0p | EmptyMessage: since this laptop doesnt have wifi adapter, will i have to set network for even ethernet? |
| 00:17.17 | zumba_addict | is this link saying the truth about dpkg -i package.deb that we have to run apt-get install -f? https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/159094/how-to-install-a-deb-file-by-dpkg-i-or-by-apt |
| 00:17.23 | b1ack0p | because for me setting network in command line is challenging |
| 00:17.50 | zumba_addict | He is saying `The sudo apt-get install -f command tries to fix this broken package by installing the missing dependency.` |
| 00:17.51 | b1ack0p | if it will connect to internet directly with ethernet then no desktop is fine |
| 00:17.53 | EmptyMessage | b1ack0p: it should autodetect, but nmtui makes it easy to do from the cli |
| 00:18.20 | b1ack0p | anyway i prefer desktop |
| 00:18.25 | b1ack0p | to have desktop* |
| 00:18.29 | zumba_addict | ah only run it if there were unresolved deps |
| 00:18.51 | b1ack0p | installing base system |
| 00:18.53 | b1ack0p | cool |
| 00:18.55 | EmptyMessage | b1ack0p: yeah for sure. I just thought that for just 512mb ram it would be pushing it to run XFCE. whatever works for you is great, though... this is Linux after all! |
| 00:19.03 | sponix | EmptyMessage: I keep a backup of the few things for /etc/ that are not sensitive on my webserver to allow showing n00bz as "working examples" |
| 00:19.12 | EmptyMessage | b1ack0p: remember to deselect everything at the tasksel step |
| 00:19.16 | b1ack0p | EmptyMessage: xfce was running good on 9.13 so 10 might be good also |
| 00:19.27 | EmptyMessage | sponix: Good idea. I might do that |
| 00:19.28 | b1ack0p | EmptyMessage: sure i will remember that |
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| 00:20.20 | jmcnaught | At the task selection stage I would still leave "standard system utils" checked, or whatever that one is called. Also possibly check SSH server so one will be running if you have graphical issues after reboot. |
| 00:20.46 | zumba_addict | folks, in my unix command line history, I had GREB in my command `dpkg -iGREB`. Why did I do that? |
| 00:21.45 | EmptyMessage | jmcnaught: good call on the SSH server. I've never needed anything really from the standard system utilities, what does it have that would be useful? |
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| 00:21.58 | EmptyMessage | needed anything that wasn't easy to install right away, that it |
| 00:22.08 | EmptyMessage | that is* |
| 00:22.59 | jmcnaught | EmptyMessage: it has stuff that people tend to expect to have. Specifically it installs packages in the required, important, and standard priorities. |
| 00:23.12 | jmcnaught | https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#priorities |
| 00:23.58 | EmptyMessage | thank you! |
| 00:24.51 | jmcnaught | EmptyMessage: aptitude can search by priority with the ~p filter (that's a ~ not a -): aptitude search ~pstandard |
| 00:27.22 | jmcnaught | The stuff in the standard, important, and required priorities will not install any GUI and they do not take up much space. It is better to have them than not. |
| 00:27.51 | EmptyMessage | jmcnaught: Very cool, just took a look through there. I still need to learn a lot more about aptitude. Also, need to figure how to make it work in zsh, zsh seems to be intercepting the ~ character. |
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| 00:28.05 | trysten | i'm installing debian and using the encryption feature of the partition tool. On the encryption option there are two choices: passphrase and random key. what is random key? |
| 00:28.12 | EmptyMessage | jmcnaught: I will keep that in mind for the future |
| 00:28.25 | trysten | And are there docs that I missed somewhere or is this just poorly documented? |
| 00:28.38 | jmcnaught | EmptyMessage: try putting '~pstandard' in single quotes |
| 00:29.02 | EmptyMessage | jmcnaught: aha, should have thought about that thanks |
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| 00:30.47 | jmcnaught | trysten: this is the documentation for encryption in the installer: https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch06s03.en.html#partman-crypto |
| 00:31.16 | zumba_addict | what does this mean? `Recursively handle all regular files matching pattern *.deb found at specified directories and all of its subdirectories.` |
| 00:32.51 | zumba_addict | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:35.39 | trysten | jmcnaught: thank you. I'm not sure how I missed it but It seems those sub headings aren't listed anywhere. I should have been more skeptical at a documentation lapse in the debian base system heh. |
| 00:36.21 | hesco | jhutchins: thank you. adding my new user to the audio group seems to have resolved the issue, I hope. Still not sure about switching back and forth between users though, as I wound up inadvertently restarting the machine to test the configuration change. |
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| 00:59.59 | H-var | found this really cool wallpaper https://i.redd.it/0vdugy9dp1n01.png |
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| 01:06.49 | H-var | hello, so I mounted this ntfs drive that I used for throwing all my stuff from windows and keep it there, but all the files are read-only. Someone said it's fastboot in bios on the internet, but I have fastboot turned off |
| 01:07.02 | H-var | what else can I do to unblock it properly? |
| 01:09.01 | H-var | thank you! |
| 01:09.10 | H-var | sudo ntfsfix worked for me! |
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| 01:13.26 | rojiro | I have a debian 10 vm running on qemu and I suspended the host machine and now the keyboard input just types in black over the top of the UI as it it's in a console of some sort... Any ideas? Googling didn't yet put me on the right track |
| 01:13.42 | H-var | double commander vs tux commander vs krusader in 2020? |
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| 01:13.49 | rojiro | mouse seems to work just fine |
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| 01:15.43 | sney | rojiro: it's not really clear what you're describing. do you have a paste or a screenshot or something? |
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| 01:18.04 | H-var | should I use gtk programs with debian xfce, or qt5? |
| 01:18.31 | jmcnaught | It doesn't really matter |
| 01:18.48 | astronavt | gtk programs will integrate better with the xfce and xfwm theme |
| 01:18.52 | rojiro | there is a single black character sized cutout of black with a white blinking cursor in it. keyboard chars show up in it as i type, but totally unrelated to the wayland ui |
| 01:18.54 | sney | gtk will be a closer visual match and not require extra libraries, but most of us have a mix of both regardless of DE |
| 01:18.57 | H-var | there must be a better choice for xfce? |
| 01:18.58 | b1ack0p | finally debian 10 is installed on 20 years old ibm T23 |
| 01:19.00 | astronavt | qt5 programs are fine in that they will work correctly |
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| 01:19.36 | H-var | thanks sney and astronavt and jmcnaught |
| 01:19.42 | astronavt | b1ack0p, congratulations |
| 01:19.49 | astronavt | including xfce? |
| 01:19.51 | b1ack0p | thanks |
| 01:19.52 | astronavt | networking? |
| 01:19.53 | b1ack0p | yep |
| 01:19.55 | rojiro | b1ack0p: what are the specs? |
| 01:19.57 | astronavt | nice |
| 01:20.00 | astronavt | sound? |
| 01:20.21 | rojiro | b1ack0p: can you share details of what you did? |
| 01:20.28 | b1ack0p | rojiro: pentium 3 1.13ghz - 512mb sdram - s3 super savage 16mb graphics |
| 01:20.38 | coruja | inxi is a nice system information tool |
| 01:20.41 | b1ack0p | astronavt: i dont know how to test sound |
| 01:20.46 | b1ack0p | is there sample audio? |
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| 01:21.28 | b1ack0p | rojiro: just installed via usb stick |
| 01:21.33 | b1ack0p | as usual |
| 01:23.27 | mcossey | b1ack0p: speaker-test (or something similar to that) in alsa-utils is a quick easy way to test sound. |
| 01:26.56 | b1ack0p | ok i will look |
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| 01:28.38 | dvs | speaker-test -c 2 -t wav |
| 01:28.49 | dvs | but add the user to the audio group first. |
| 01:29.28 | H-var | so what's with this new vulkan hype? Is this like directx, or something? Can anyone with a video card use it? |
| 01:29.50 | b1ack0p | oh dvs i dont know how to add audio group |
| 01:29.59 | sney | it's opengl's new hotness. a lot of gpus "support" it, but it's only really beneficial with the newer chips |
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| 01:30.42 | H-var | so basically all in all it's better to have it, if the only other choice is opengl? |
| 01:30.56 | H-var | and then what, it will use itself over opengl automatically? |
| 01:31.07 | sney | afaict one of the main benefits with vulkan is the ability to process shaders and cache them ahead of time, so you don't see as much lag in complex game environments |
| 01:31.10 | dvs | b1ack0p: as root, adduser <username> audio |
| 01:31.19 | b1ack0p | oh that simple? |
| 01:31.22 | b1ack0p | ok thanks |
| 01:31.24 | dvs | yes |
| 01:31.49 | dvs | but you have to logout and back in again. (Not just end a terminal in GUI) |
| 01:33.32 | sney | H-var: if your driver etc supports vulkan and you launch an application that also supports it, it'll get used. it's transparent to the user. |
| 01:33.55 | sney | sometimes steam will give you a popup about the shader caching etc |
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| 01:36.24 | b1ack0p | what is -pae at the end of linux image ? |
| 01:36.32 | sney | !pae |
| 01:36.32 | dpkg | Physical Address Extension (PAE) is an x86 processor feature allowing more than 4 gigabytes of physical memory to be used. Linux supports PAE since version 2.3.23 (up to 64 GB of memory on 32-bit systems). PAE is supported by the Intel Pentium Pro/II/III/4/4M/D, Xeon, Core and Atom; AMD Geode NX, Athlon (K7), Duron, Opteron, Sempron, Turion and Phenom; Transmeta Efficeon; VIA C7 and some others. Ask me about <686-pae>, <bigmem>. |
| 01:36.39 | b1ack0p | 4.19.0-11-686-pae |
| 01:36.45 | H-var | thanks people |
| 01:37.17 | sney | b1ack0p: your T23 probably doesn't have more than 4GB of memory, but if it did, pae means linux could use it |
| 01:37.31 | b1ack0p | sney: no it doesnt have |
| 01:37.42 | b1ack0p | max 1gb supported i think |
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| 01:41.26 | H-var | what will happen, if I try to install nvidia drivers from the nvidia website, but I already have the drivers from the debian's library of packages? Debian will handle the hassle? |
| 01:44.37 | H-var | or should I remove nvidia-driver and nvidia-settings, or purge them first, rather than installing the nvidia driver from the nvidia website over the driver from the debian's package libraries? |
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| 01:47.30 | H-var | how should I do this? |
| 01:48.29 | sney | ,v nvidia-driver |
| 01:48.31 | judd | Package: nvidia-driver on amd64 -- jessie/non-free: 340.106-1; stretch-proposed-updates/non-free: 390.132-1; stretch/non-free: 390.138-1; stretch-backports/non-free: 418.74-1~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 418.152.00-1; buster-backports/non-free: 450.66-1~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 450.66-1; sid/non-free: 450.66-1; experimental/non-free: 455.23.04-1 |
| 01:49.05 | sney | H-var: the nvidia installer sucks and stomps all over debian's package management. is there a reason 450.66 isn't good enough? |
| 01:49.25 | H-var | that's the problem sney - it's on backports only |
| 01:49.36 | sney | so? |
| 01:49.40 | H-var | it's not available on the stable library |
| 01:49.50 | H-var | you said it's better not mix |
| 01:50.04 | sney | buster-backports is *designed* to be mixed with buster. |
| 01:50.11 | sney | mixing those is fine, even recommended. |
| 01:50.13 | H-var | oh, I see hehe |
| 01:50.37 | H-var | so better not use the drivers from the nvidia website - got it |
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| 01:50.44 | sney | what you don't mix is stable and sid/testing/ubuntu/jimbob's apt repo and worm emporium |
| 01:50.50 | H-var | I would rather use the debian's builds indeed always |
| 01:51.35 | H-var | !backports |
| 01:51.35 | dpkg | A backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications. http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch02.en.html (2.7.4 and 2.7.10), http://backports.debian.org/ . Ask me about <debian-backports> and <backport caveat>. See also <simple sid backport>. |
| 01:53.26 | alex11 | apt repo and worm emporium... |
| 01:54.00 | H-var | did I do it right? "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/buster-backports main contrib non-free" |
| 01:54.09 | sney | yep |
| 01:54.31 | H-var | or should it be "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-backports main contrib non-free"? |
| 01:54.34 | sney | no wait, there should be a space between debian/ and .. yes |
| 01:54.44 | H-var | haha thanks :D |
| 01:56.08 | H-var | wow amazing, I've got an "libhttpclient-java (4.5.7-1+deb10u1) over (4.5.7-1)" upgrade xD |
| 01:57.23 | H-var | ok, but I already have nvidia-driver 418, and the upgrade didn't update it to 450 |
| 01:57.39 | sney | you don't upgrade everything to backports, it's for individual packages only |
| 01:57.50 | sney | you have to specify with e.g. apt -t buster-backports install nvidia-driver |
| 01:58.07 | alex11 | and even then i caution people about using them, you have to be sure you want the updated features |
| 01:58.14 | H-var | thank you sney |
| 02:00.24 | H-var | The following packages will be REMOVED: libcuda1-i386:i386 libnvidia-fatbinaryloader libnvidia-fatbinaryloader:i386 nvidia-driver-libs-i386:i386 |
| 02:00.50 | H-var | but I need them for steam to run, right? |
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| 02:01.11 | sney | you will need to specify that apt should install those from buster-backports as well, then |
| 02:02.22 | b1ack0p | i created /etc/rc.local and typed a code inside to activate hotkeys |
| 02:02.29 | b1ack0p | but it doesnt run |
| 02:02.41 | sney | I'm not sure how rc.local interacts with systemd |
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| 02:02.47 | b1ack0p | i did chmod u+x /etc/rc.local but still doesnt |
| 02:02.47 | sney | !rc.local |
| 02:02.49 | dpkg | /etc/rc.local may be used to run simple commands at boot time. It exists by default in jessie or older; in stretch or newer you need to create it. Don't forget the <shebang> and be sure to chmod 755 it. rc.local is considered a hack, a stopgap, or a temporary band-aid; see <systemd> |
| 02:03.13 | sney | is it a shell script? e.g. #!/bin/sh at the top? |
| 02:03.22 | b1ack0p | it is running fine on other thinkpads |
| 02:03.28 | b1ack0p | yes shell script |
| 02:04.08 | b1ack0p | http://paste.debian.net/plain/1167232 |
| 02:04.10 | b1ack0p | this one |
| 02:04.10 | dvs | b1ack0p: are the other thinkpads running 10.x? |
| 02:04.22 | b1ack0p | dvs yes the one i am typing at the moment |
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| 02:04.39 | b1ack0p | also that ancient laptop was running that code fine at debian 9.13 |
| 02:04.46 | b1ack0p | how can i test the code or debug? |
| 02:04.48 | dvs | ... |
| 02:04.52 | sney | did you verify that the file you're testing for exists? |
| 02:04.56 | b1ack0p | maybe i typed a mistake but cant find it |
| 02:05.02 | b1ack0p | sney: yes it exists |
| 02:05.16 | b1ack0p | i can see it physically in /etc |
| 02:05.49 | sney | no, the /sys thing that you're copying |
| 02:06.14 | b1ack0p | sney: that s the exact code |
| 02:06.31 | b1ack0p | i didnt write it, it is someones i found in internet to get hotkeys working |
| 02:06.48 | H-var | The following packages have unmet dependencies: nvidia-driver-libs-i386:i386 : Depends: nvidia-driver-libs:i386 (= 440.100-1~bpo10+1) but 450.66-1~bpo10+1 is to be installed |
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| 02:07.44 | sney | H-var: didn't we go through this the other day? all the nvidia stuff has to be the same version. look at the nvidia packages you have installed, and install the ones that aren't marked "auto" from backports. |
| 02:07.54 | blackop | typing on ancient machine now |
| 02:08.16 | sney | b1ack0p: sounds like it's time to actually check the "code" and see if it does anything, rather than just pasting crap from the internet and waving a magic wand |
| 02:11.15 | H-var | ok I'm lost again |
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| 02:12.49 | sney | H-var: 1. aptitude search ~invidia 2. make note of all packages in this list WITHOUT 'A' in the left column. 3. apt -t buster-backports install package1 package2 |
| 02:13.26 | b1ack0p | sney: the same code is running in 5 different thinkpads working fine |
| 02:13.36 | b1ack0p | but i couldnt get it working on this old one |
| 02:13.50 | b1ack0p | which was working on debian 9.13 |
| 02:13.59 | sney | b1ack0p: don't make excuses, debug it |
| 02:14.19 | b1ack0p | debug how? |
| 02:14.31 | b1ack0p | i am telling you i am running already the code |
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| 02:15.22 | b1ack0p | ah maybe this |
| 02:15.31 | b1ack0p | pulseaudio was not placed on panel |
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| 02:15.55 | b1ack0p | yep |
| 02:15.59 | b1ack0p | sney: working now |
| 02:16.07 | b1ack0p | issue was pulseaudio plugi |
| 02:16.08 | b1ack0p | n |
| 02:16.22 | b1ack0p | now time to test audio |
| 02:17.11 | b1ack0p | sounds also working |
| 02:17.22 | b1ack0p | speaker-test loops |
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| 02:17.36 | b1ack0p | ok quit |
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| 02:19.03 | H-var | sney these are the ones without "A". I will install them, but it asks for 2,067MB of additional disk space. http://paste.debian.net/1167237/ |
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| 02:19.15 | H-var | it's normal? |
| 02:19.26 | sney | yep |
| 02:19.42 | sney | nvidia is big, especially when cuda comes to the party |
| 02:20.00 | sney | your other option is to remove the cuda stuff first, depending on if you need it |
| 02:20.34 | sney | but since these are the packages you installed manually at some point, the assumption is you're using cuda for something |
| 02:20.35 | H-var | cuda-shmuda, vulkan hurrikane - I just wanna play lol |
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| 02:22.01 | H-var | maybe I'll try encoding videos later? |
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| 02:22.30 | sney | also, minor point but something that's good to learn: search is not a privileged operation. you do not need sudo to search. |
| 02:23.17 | H-var | thank you. What is it like to update from 9 to 10, and then from 10 to 11 at some point? |
| 02:23.41 | H-var | is it as simple as just running sudo upgrade? |
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| 02:24.13 | sney | depends on what the release notes say, but usually upgrades from stable to stable+1 are smooth |
| 02:24.40 | sney | the OS drive in this system was originally installed as debian 7 or 8, iirc |
| 02:25.21 | H-var | that's great |
| 02:25.40 | H-var | well, all that for nothing - alien: isolation doesn't start |
| 02:26.03 | sney | if you're running it from steam, (or even if not) protondb may have tips for you. |
| 02:27.07 | H-var | everyone says it runs lol https://www.protondb.com/app/214490 |
| 02:28.26 | sney | try that one commenter's launch params. |
| 02:28.47 | sney | also, reboot if you haven't, the nvidia driver in memory is probably still 418 |
| 02:29.14 | sney | there is also a #steamlug on this network for unofficial steam support. |
| 02:29.14 | H-var | yeah, you're right. Definitely have to at least reboot first |
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| 02:45.11 | b1ack0p | good nite |
| 02:45.15 | b1ack0p | thanks for your helps |
| 02:45.21 | dvs | o/ |
| 02:50.26 | H-var | it still doesn't run |
| 02:51.21 | sney | #debian can only take you as far as the drivers. you'll have to ask #steamlug or somewhere for steam-specific game support |
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| 03:05.41 | jmcnaught | H-var: maybe try a game that is in Debian like 0ad or one from https://blends.debian.org/games/tasks/finest ? |
| 03:10.49 | sney | I don't think there are any f/oss sci-fi survival horror games, though I'd be willing to be wrong |
| 03:11.16 | sney | (anything with zork gameplay does not count) |
| 03:11.27 | dvs | it's called programming |
| 03:11.28 | dvs | runs |
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| 03:14.43 | H-var | well, I'll continue this alien isolation project tomorrow. It makes me hopeful seeing that others were able to launch it, and also I got the reply from frictional devs |
| 03:17.40 | mtlsw | H-var, wsl? LOL |
| 03:17.54 | mtlsw | H-var, I missed it, I came late to the party |
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| 04:05.31 | willow_ | anyone recommend a good bitcoin wallet for Linux? |
| 04:05.53 | alex11 | i think kde has one... |
| 04:05.56 | alex11 | kwallet? |
| 04:05.58 | alex11 | ,i kwallet |
| 04:05.59 | judd | No package named 'kwallet' was found in buster/amd64. |
| 04:06.02 | alex11 | welp |
| 04:06.08 | willow_ | kwallet is for storing passwords |
| 04:06.48 | willow_ | am using Electrum now which seems good. wondering if anything better |
| 04:07.14 | alex11 | i shouldn't comment if i don't know, sorry |
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| 04:30.19 | unixbsd | Hello, I would like to ask, I need to do a multiple statitiscal regression analysis. Which open, software under Debian would do so? There is R, what else? thank you |
| 04:30.55 | willow_ | it's kind of neat to buy like $10 worth of BTC on Coinbase and send it to your wallet to see how it works |
| 04:31.47 | willow_ | unixbsd: numpy? |
| 04:32.18 | willow_ | https://devarea.com/linear-regression-with-numpy/ |
| 04:32.45 | unixbsd | apt install numpy didnt work |
| 04:33.29 | willow_ | numpy is a python library. |
| 04:33.48 | unixbsd | Is there a frontend, a bit like statistica? |
| 04:33.56 | willow_ | name of package is 'python-numpy' |
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| 04:34.31 | willow_ | it's python. the front end is the code you write like in the example, then use matplotlib to plot it |
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| 04:34.46 | unixbsd | I would rather have a frontend, python is not so much frontend... |
| 04:34.56 | zerowalker_w | does debian 10 have noop or similar, i know it hasn't had it before, at least it's not called the same |
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| 04:39.53 | unixbsd | maybe in fortran? there is gfortran, I see. |
| 04:40.18 | unixbsd | rstudio? |
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| 04:42.04 | unixbsd | I dont find R Studio (rstudio) on buster. |
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| 06:46.12 | jolt | R is pretty old in buster, follow the instructions on the R site to get a newer one, including rstudio |
| 06:47.37 | jolt | unixbsd: https://cran.r-project.org/bin/linux/debian/ is what we use here, scrool down for the Backports on CRAN |
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| 07:17.09 | Matrox | how can i get a single package from debian testing? |
| 07:17.20 | Matrox | i want a more recent version of ansible specifically |
| 07:17.28 | Matrox | but i dont want to enable whole testing repo |
| 07:18.00 | ksk | ,v ansible |
| 07:18.01 | judd | Package: ansible on amd64 -- jessie: 1.7.2+dfsg-2; jessie-security: 1.7.2+dfsg-2+deb8u3; stretch: 2.2.1.0-2+deb9u1; stretch-security: 2.2.1.0-2+deb9u1; stretch-backports: 2.7.5+dfsg-1~bpo9+1; buster: 2.7.7+dfsg-1; buster-backports: 2.9.6+dfsg-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 2.9.13+dfsg-1; sid: 2.9.13+dfsg-1 |
| 07:18.02 | tarzeau | dget the source package, then debuild it |
| 07:18.27 | ksk | Matrox: would the version in Buster-Backports (2.9.6) suffice? |
| 07:18.35 | ksk | !tell Matrox about backports |
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| 07:19.13 | Haohmaru | Matrox i don't think you're supposed to "enable the whole testing repository" .. at all |
| 07:19.33 | Haohmaru | afaik that's one of the recipes for disasters |
| 07:20.24 | ksk | !frankendebian |
| 07:20.24 | dpkg | When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall> |
| 07:21.04 | genr8_ | there needs to be a tutorial done on this |
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| 07:21.20 | Haohmaru | on making a frankendebian? |
| 07:21.24 | genr8_ | noo |
| 07:21.34 | selim | hi, can someone help me to get rid of annoying console messages from kernel side? |
| 07:21.35 | fireba11 | haha |
| 07:21.45 | fireba11 | selim: fix the issue? :-D |
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| 07:21.57 | genr8_ | boot with the "quiet" parameter |
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| 07:22.11 | Haohmaru | who knows what he finds "annoying" |
| 07:22.12 | selim | I'm using buster and already used dmesg -n 1 as well as I set kernel.printk to 0 0 1 7 but didn't help the messages keep coming |
| 07:22.24 | genr8_ | eh |
| 07:22.34 | selim | is there a specialty due to systemd? The last time I had to do that was during init V times |
| 07:22.39 | genr8_ | maybe 0 isnt good. try 1 1 1 1 |
| 07:22.57 | fireba11 | also if kernel messages to console it's usually something you should be aware of and do something about ;-) |
| 07:23.18 | Haohmaru | i rarely see "booting" ;P~ |
| 07:24.43 | genr8_ | selim, i have the answer |
| 07:24.50 | selim | fireba11: I know, but that is definitly something proven false positive, I had to do that in the past. I have two systems which are sending ECC corrected errors, and that is due to a specific issue on the CPU but anyway, as mentioned, it doesn't have any impact, so I just need to get rid of the messages |
| 07:24.56 | genr8_ | kernel.printk = The result shows the current, default, minimum and boot-time-default log levels. |
| 07:25.16 | genr8_ | You have to set 0 0 0 0 to kernel.printk in the boot kernel command line parameter |
| 07:25.44 | genr8_ | cause the last number = boot-time-default, and if you're setting it after boot, it doesnt persist |
| 07:25.48 | selim | genr8, meaning as kernel boot option, so a reboot in inevitable? |
| 07:26.04 | genr8_ | you said this was about "on boot" |
| 07:26.13 | genr8_ | so yes a reboot is inevitable to change "default on boot" |
| 07:26.28 | Haohmaru | i think he doesn't want to reboot now just to apply this setting |
| 07:26.39 | selim | genr8: no, did I mention on boot? I meant during runtime within the console |
| 07:26.51 | Haohmaru | huh |
| 07:26.55 | genr8_ | kernel.printk should be enough |
| 07:27.17 | selim | genr8: it isn't still getting this: |
| 07:28.25 | selim | Message from syslogd@bigdaddy at Oct 15 09:25:43 ... |
| 07:28.25 | selim | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:28.44 | genr8_ | echo "0 0 0 0" > /proc/sys/kernel/printk |
| 07:28.58 | genr8_ | dmesg -n 0 |
| 07:29.48 | genr8_ | dmesg -n 1 will still print "0" messages, and that may be one. |
| 07:29.55 | genr8_ | The documentation page is here https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/core-api/printk-basics.html |
| 07:30.13 | genr8_ | thats all i know. |
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| 07:32.32 | fireba11 | selim: okay, just making sure :-) |
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| 07:32.37 | genr8_ | now that I think about it, this seems kind of a bad idea |
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| 07:32.56 | genr8_ | you will be losing all useful messages just because of "a hardware error corrected" |
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| 07:33.10 | genr8_ | you should try to figure out how to block just that one message |
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| 07:33.24 | Haohmaru | +1 |
| 07:33.54 | genr8_ | let me look up the EDAC parameters, i think its part of that, maybe its able to set debug level to 0 |
| 07:34.01 | Haohmaru | can you feed that thru a script to filter the text and reject just the one you want to ignore? |
| 07:35.29 | genr8_ | yes |
| 07:35.47 | genr8_ | boot with "edac_report=off" |
| 07:36.37 | genr8_ | im not sure how to do it without rebooting |
| 07:36.54 | genr8_ | maybe theres a /proc or /sys for it (but i disabled EDAC on my system so i cant look for it) |
| 07:37.44 | genr8_ | maybe edac-util or edac-ctl userspace program |
| 07:38.35 | Matrox | do enable backports i add this to sources list: (deb http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-backports main) can i also append "contrib non-free" as i do for the rest of my sources? |
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| 07:38.52 | genr8_ | "apt install edac-utils" then "edac-util --quiet" |
| 07:39.01 | Haohmaru | Matrox yes |
| 07:39.12 | Haohmaru | !sources.list example |
| 07:39.20 | Haohmaru | !sources.list |
| 07:39.20 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main", and optionally "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <buster/updates> <buster-updates> and "man sources.list". |
| 07:39.44 | Haohmaru | bluh, there was an example in the wiki |
| 07:39.55 | genr8_ | apparently that sets stuff in /sys/devices/system/edac/ |
| 07:40.17 | genr8_ | thinks he left |
| 07:40.37 | Matrox | Haohmaru, i wasn't sure if contrib and non-free existed for backports. wiki only mentions main |
| 07:40.52 | Haohmaru | the example was clearer |
| 07:40.56 | Haohmaru | hold on |
| 07:41.43 | Haohmaru | Matrox https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList |
| 07:41.49 | Haohmaru | scroll down to the example |
| 07:42.17 | genr8_ | you dont need contrib or non-free. dont leave backports enabled either. |
| 07:42.40 | Haohmaru | uhm, i have em like that *shrug* |
| 07:43.31 | genr8_ | i guess you can do what you want with your own system |
| 07:43.33 | Matrox | genr8_, afaik backports doesnt auto-update anything. i have to specify -t buster-backports to get something specific on my own |
| 07:43.43 | Haohmaru | i think the non-free and contrib stuff shows up with a different icon in synaptic |
| 07:43.47 | genr8_ | Matrox, not accurate |
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| 07:44.14 | Matrox | genr8_, thats why i read at least |
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| 07:44.15 | Matrox | All backports are deactivated by default (i.e. the packages are pinned to 100 by using ButAutomaticUpgrades: yes in the Release files. If you want to install something from backports run |
| 07:44.22 | Haohmaru | synaptic doesn't install from backports if the thing is available in the normal place |
| 07:44.24 | Matrox | apt-get -t buster-backports install "package" |
| 07:44.29 | genr8_ | hmmm |
| 07:44.50 | genr8_ | ok then leave it enabled. |
| 07:45.48 | Haohmaru | ..and if you do want to install from backports, you gotta press ctrl+E or something like that on the package (Force Version) |
| 07:45.51 | jelly | genr8_, it would make it rather unfriendly to have to enable repo, install things, disable repo the whole time |
| 07:46.17 | jelly | synaptic has always been a bit special |
| 07:46.17 | Haohmaru | jelly yeah, i don't have time for playing ping-pong with sources.list |
| 07:46.43 | Haohmaru | i just put those in and carefully decide what i wanna install |
| 07:48.39 | genr8_ | I see. Yeah, the policy is set to priority 100 instead of Priority 900 |
| 07:49.30 | genr8_ | actually thats my fault that its 900 i think. it should be 500 ? |
| 07:49.53 | genr8_ | i forget what i did here :/ |
| 07:50.03 | Haohmaru | once a package is installed from backports tho, when a new version is available in backports, and when you do "Reload" and "mark all upgrades" - synaptic would mark the new version for installation (logically) |
| 07:50.26 | jelly | genr8_, tell yourself about !bat |
| 07:50.41 | Haohmaru | "hit yourself with the !bat" |
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| 07:51.15 | genr8_ | hah. yep I had done something weird. |
| 07:51.32 | jelly | Haohmaru, good, so synaptic works the same as apt/apt-get/aptitude in that regard |
| 07:52.10 | Haohmaru | jelly well, it's supposed to be a GUI for the same kinds of basic tasks, isn't it? |
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| 07:52.46 | jelly | yes, but it has historically behaved different in some important aspects |
| 07:52.53 | jelly | eg. held packages |
| 07:53.17 | Haohmaru | i very much prefer it, i can "browse around", read descriptions, see screenshots, see additional info.. |
| 07:54.03 | Haohmaru | ..i can also manipulate the sources.list via it |
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| 07:54.45 | Haohmaru | i only change one of its options from the defaults, it makes it "better" IMO |
| 07:55.51 | Haohmaru | Preferences: Show package properties in the main window <- this one |
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| 07:56.35 | Haohmaru | then on the bottom you get Description/Common/Dependencies/Installed Files/Versions |
| 07:56.37 | enkrypt | since yesterday when trying to to do 'ssh-add < /dev/null' I get this error: "Could not open a connection to your authentication agent.". this started to happen after a apt upgrade, even though nothing ssh related was update. any clues? |
| 07:56.41 | jelly | ,v chromium |
| 07:56.42 | judd | Package: chromium on amd64 -- jessie: 57.0.2987.98-1~deb8u1; jessie-security: 57.0.2987.98-1~deb8u1; stretch: 73.0.3683.75-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 73.0.3683.75-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 73.0.3683.75-1~deb9u1; buster: 83.0.4103.116-1~deb10u3; buster-security: 83.0.4103.116-1~deb10u3; bullseye: 83.0.4103.116-3.1; sid: 83.0.4103.116-3.1 |
| 07:57.02 | jelly | hmph, and google-chrome-stable is at 86 now |
| 07:58.11 | genr8_ | relog |
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| 08:00.33 | genr8_ | how do I find out when a package was changed or uploaded to the repo |
| 08:00.57 | Haohmaru | file dates? |
| 08:01.13 | genr8_ | negative |
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| 08:02.46 | genr8_ | this is weird. after fixing my policy, ca-certificates is showing that i should update it |
| 08:03.08 | genr8_ | but the policy is unrelated to what i fixed. |
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| 08:03.45 | Haohmaru | aww, did you just make a bigger mess? ;P~ |
| 08:04.07 | genr8_ | no but im more confused |
| 08:04.38 | genr8_ | ,v ca-certificates |
| 08:04.40 | judd | Package: ca-certificates on amd64 -- jessie: 20141019+deb8u3; jessie-security: 20141019+deb8u4; buster: 20190110; stretch: 20200601~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 20200601~deb9u1; stretch-updates: 20200601~deb9u1; buster-proposed-updates: 20200601~deb10u1; buster-updates: 20200601~deb10u1; bullseye: 20200601; sid: 20200601 |
| 08:06.24 | selim | genr8: tried all of that dmesg -n 0 does not work it's only 1 but non of that worked |
| 08:07.51 | genr8_ | selim, read what i said about the EDAC stuff. thats what its called. |
| 08:09.40 | genr8_ | This is my current apt policy confusion. I had Buster manually pinned to 900 and backports disabled. then I unpinned and 900 went back to 500 and I added backports (the normal 100): https://paste.debian.net/1167251/ |
| 08:10.22 | genr8_ | then for some reason ca-certificates popped up saying "hey you never updated me", but that repo always existed... |
| 08:11.10 | jmcnaught | genr8_: ca-certificates is coming from buster-updates which was lower priority than buster when you had buster at 900. |
| 08:11.41 | genr8_ | oh hoh thats right |
| 08:12.13 | genr8_ | k confusion resolved. thanks |
| 08:13.06 | Matrox | gvim has vim-gtk2 and vim-gtk3 available |
| 08:13.09 | Matrox | which is more stable? |
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| 08:14.13 | genr8_ | im gonna guess 2? Its a whole different API. old or new |
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| 08:14.37 | Matrox | doesn't gvim use an official toolkit? i guess gtk3 |
| 08:14.45 | Matrox | or they support both officially |
| 08:14.57 | genr8_ | apparently both ? |
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| 08:15.18 | genr8_ | I dont even have a vim-gtk2 package |
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| 08:18.26 | Matrox | its vim-gtk |
| 08:18.33 | Matrox | but in the info it says gtk2 is used |
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| 08:20.02 | genr8_ | i doubt its meaningful if you have both installed |
| 08:20.06 | jelly | genr8_, show your /etc/apt/preferences and grep . /etc/apt/preferences.d/* |
| 08:20.25 | genr8_ | jelly, confusion resolved, sorry |
| 08:20.28 | jelly | genr8_, whatever you had "before" was likely incorrect |
| 08:21.11 | genr8_ | it was. plus I went blind when trying to read why |
| 08:21.18 | jelly | pinning is very easy to get wrong |
| 08:21.53 | genr8_ | I pinned buster to 900 but forgot buster-updates was still at 500 |
| 08:22.10 | jelly | buster-updates is also buster. |
| 08:22.23 | genr8_ | not the way i did it then |
| 08:22.32 | jelly | so whatever you had pinned did not cover -updates |
| 08:22.37 | genr8_ | right |
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| 08:26.40 | genr8_ | its surprising only 1 package got messed up |
| 08:26.54 | jelly | !stable-updates |
| 08:26.55 | dpkg | buster-updates is a suite providing updates to some packages (from <proposed-updates>) prior to a <point release>. All packages from buster-updates will be included in point releases. https://wiki.debian.org/StableUpdates . Not to be confused with <buster/updates> which is for <security> updates. |
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| 08:37.35 | genr8_ | Is buster-backports going to become a standard concept soon ? |
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| 08:39.27 | ansimita | genr8_: what do you mean by "concept"? |
| 08:39.32 | Haohmaru | uh, buster is just version 10, 11 is comming (soon(TM)) |
| 08:40.17 | Haohmaru | "backports" itself *is* a thing, it was available in previous versions too |
| 08:40.27 | genr8_ | It always seemed special to me. but its not |
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| 08:40.43 | genr8_ | If you dont know about backports, you're missing out |
| 08:41.14 | Haohmaru | ehm, see, debian "stable" has a certain goal |
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| 08:42.53 | Haohmaru | it should be stable.. often people use some programs that are under rapid developement and get enhanced frequently, but it takes time until they get into debian stable.. some of these people urgently need the new version because of some feature or whatever |
| 08:43.03 | Haohmaru | that's where backports comes into play |
| 08:43.22 | Haohmaru | at least that's how i see it |
| 08:43.23 | genr8_ | doesnt that mean its ready ? |
| 08:43.26 | ksk | There is, in general, no such thing as "new versions getting into stable", apart from Browser and some other specials. |
| 08:43.28 | Haohmaru | no |
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| 08:43.34 | ksk | !stable |
| 08:43.35 | dpkg | [stable] The status of a Debian release when no packages will be added or version-bumped, and changes will only fix security issues and critical bugs. Packages can be removed in rare circumstances. The current stable version of Debian is Buster (10.x); ask me about <releases>. Security bugs are fixed in stable by backporting the fix to the stable version (ask me about <security backports>). https://wiki.debian.org/DebianStable |
| 08:43.55 | willow_ | use snap for some things that you want current |
| 08:43.58 | Haohmaru | genr8_ a semi-complex program is never "ready" ;P~ |
| 08:43.58 | ksk | Stable in Debian means "no changing". |
| 08:45.18 | Haohmaru | i mean, there is almost always at least room for optimizations, room for enhancements, new features, etc.. |
| 08:46.00 | genr8_ | thats not the point. the concern is dependencies and will it actually run |
| 08:46.10 | Haohmaru | in other words, for a program to get into debian stable, it must have had "a decent amount of time" for being tested |
| 08:46.30 | Haohmaru | a newer version that comes from backports wouldn't have had that much time |
| 08:46.34 | genr8_ | and to get into backports, it had to have come from testing ? |
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| 08:46.48 | genr8_ | i think thats how it works ? where is that flow chart |
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| 08:47.41 | Haohmaru | using stuff from backports is potentially dangerous, but it's easier and better than $improvising something on your own if you don't fully know what you're doing |
| 08:48.04 | Haohmaru | some people might start downloading $random sh*t from teh internetz and break their system |
| 08:48.10 | genr8_ | https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases#Workflow |
| 08:48.26 | genr8_ | backports come from testing |
| 08:48.29 | Haohmaru | a package from backports should be less risky than that |
| 08:48.33 | Haohmaru | yes |
| 08:48.56 | genr8_ | It is less risky than that. If it made it from testing to backports, its ready! |
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| 08:49.07 | Haohmaru | uh |
| 08:50.36 | ansimita | > "Backports cannot be tested as extensively as Debian stable, and backports are provided on an as-is basis, with risk of incompatibilities with other components in Debian stable. Use with care!" https://backports.debian.org/ |
| 08:50.36 | genr8_ | Looks Green to me on the flowchart. |
| 08:50.49 | Haohmaru | also, backports afaik is not something guaranteed to exist.. there may be a new version of something in testing, it may work very nice, it may be much better than the version in stable, but i think if nobody demands it - it won't appear in backports |
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| 08:51.42 | genr8_ | Haohmaru, all the more reason to want it. the squeaky wheel gets the backport |
| 08:52.06 | Haohmaru | popular things probably would be there tho, i myself am using kicad, blender from backports |
| 08:52.16 | Haohmaru | kicad mostly.. with blender i just fool around |
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| 08:52.25 | Haohmaru | oh, also my IDE |
| 08:52.46 | genr8_ | a new systemd is also in backports. maybe thats more debateable. |
| 08:53.14 | Haohmaru | i wouldn't install stuff from backports "just because the numbers in the version are bigger" |
| 08:53.50 | ksk | Hello no. Do only install from Backports if you need a certain feature. |
| 08:54.15 | genr8_ | This is the current list of everything thats upgradeble from backports https://paste.debian.net/1167260/ |
| 08:54.19 | genr8_ | for me anyway |
| 08:54.59 | Haohmaru | oh, i have an example.. during debian9, i had to wrestle some spreadsheets in libreoffice Calc, i'm a n00b there so i didn't know wut's going on.. got stuck eventually got help from #libreoffice, and it still didn't work.. turns out there was a known bug that was hitting me, and the folks in #libreoffice didn't have it cuz they used the $current version |
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| 08:55.14 | Haohmaru | but my version was from debian stable -> older enough |
| 08:55.24 | Haohmaru | solution was to install newer version from backports |
| 08:55.30 | Franciman | Hi, so the drivers arch uses are the same debian sid uses, cringe |
| 08:55.51 | Franciman | why in the world does the debian fail my wifi and arch not |
| 08:55.59 | jelly | <genr8_> It is less risky than that. If it made it from testing to backports, its ready! # no |
| 08:56.23 | Haohmaru | yeah, i agree with jelly |
| 08:56.35 | jelly | the only thing you can infer from an existing backport is someone asked for the backport |
| 08:56.51 | Haohmaru | a new version of my IDE got released, it became available in backports very soon after that |
| 08:57.31 | Haohmaru | i trust it but i'm sure it hasn't been "well tested" for so little time, it's also not an uber popular one |
| 08:58.20 | jelly | the more you stray from stable the more opportunity for new issues to happen |
| 08:58.28 | Haohmaru | yes |
| 08:58.43 | genr8_ | proposed-updates is marked as yellow, and backports is marked as green |
| 08:58.44 | jelly | because software interacts |
| 08:58.57 | Haohmaru | if you want newer stuff for everything - you could use testing, but suffer the consequences |
| 08:59.06 | jelly | right |
| 08:59.27 | Haohmaru | the biggest issue for me is, i won't be allowed in here |
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| 08:59.43 | Haohmaru | i've been on #debian-next, you are not allowed to be a n00b |
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| 09:01.09 | Haohmaru | so i use stable and try not to break my debian and carefully use backports only if needed |
| 09:01.57 | Haohmaru | genr8_ if you're a h4x0r and you like adventures you could use testing ;P~ |
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| 09:03.30 | Haohmaru | Franciman wifi is difficult stuff, this channel is for debian Stable (10 at the moment), another distribution may be grabbing things from debian but may be modifying them afterwards |
| 09:04.00 | Haohmaru | you probably won't get your answer here |
| 09:04.13 | Franciman | oh right, sorry, this is not for debian sid |
| 09:04.31 | Franciman | well the full story is that I had unexplicable network failures while wifi was connecte |
| 09:04.38 | Franciman | and I COULD NOT understand what is the cause |
| 09:04.46 | Franciman | this on debian stable, ofc |
| 09:05.29 | Haohmaru | i use cables |
| 09:06.01 | Franciman | lucky you |
| 09:06.02 | Franciman | I cant |
| 09:06.12 | Haohmaru | my condolesence |
| 09:06.16 | Franciman | well thanks, I hope to find the issue |
| 09:06.23 | Franciman | so I can get back to buster |
| 09:06.24 | Franciman | :') |
| 09:09.24 | genr8_ | I think we should move away from to treating all repos as different Debians |
| 09:09.30 | genr8_ | damnit mangled that |
| 09:10.01 | genr8_ | I think we should move away from treating all repos as different Debians to working together as a big picture |
| 09:10.30 | Haohmaru | all debian repos? |
| 09:11.07 | genr8_ | stable/stable-updates/proposed-updates/security/backports/testing/testing-proposed-updates/sid/experimental |
| 09:11.16 | Haohmaru | uh |
| 09:11.35 | Haohmaru | i think there are reasons for why debian is structured and works the way it does |
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| 09:12.12 | genr8_ | all of those should be structured to benefit stable |
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| 09:12.22 | Haohmaru | and probably some of those are what makes some people make a new distribution based on stuff from debian |
| 09:12.26 | ratrace | Franciman: are you 100% sure the driver code is identical? |
| 09:12.48 | Franciman | ratrace, I ran diff |
| 09:12.53 | ratrace | on what? |
| 09:12.55 | Haohmaru | genr8_ shall i remind you about <xkcd/standards.jpg> ? ;P~ |
| 09:13.28 | genr8_ | Franciman, what about the firmware .bin file that gets loaded, since pretty much damn near most wifi uses proprietary binary blobs now ? |
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| 09:14.11 | Franciman | ratrace, /lib/firmware/ath10k/QCA6174/hw3.0 |
| 09:14.17 | genr8_ | one distro could have chosen a different blob to load and make the driver completely different |
| 09:14.22 | Franciman | the whole directory of drivers that gets loaded for my wifi card |
| 09:14.47 | ratrace | Franciman: that's firmware, not the driver |
| 09:14.48 | Franciman | genr8_, I checked, they use the same |
| 09:14.48 | genr8_ | the kernel code matters too. |
| 09:14.58 | Franciman | uhm |
| 09:15.06 | Franciman | where can I get the driver, instead? |
| 09:15.07 | ratrace | kernel code is most important, as you had an oops in the mac80211 part of the kernel |
| 09:15.11 | genr8_ | the kernel |
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| 09:15.54 | dob1 | ,v xrdpxorg |
| 09:15.56 | judd | No package named 'xrdpxorg' was found in amd64. |
| 09:15.56 | genr8_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:16.04 | dob1 | ,v xorgxrdp |
| 09:16.05 | judd | Package: xorgxrdp on amd64 -- stretch: 0.9.1-9+deb9u3; stretch-backports: 1:0.2.8-1~bpo9+1; buster: 1:0.2.9-1; bullseye: 1:0.2.12-1; sid: 1:0.2.12-1 |
| 09:16.05 | ratrace | Franciman: technically you need to use the proper kernel source, then apply the patches that the (Debian, and maybe Arch, I don't know Arch packaging) packaging applies, and THEN, compare sources. |
| 09:16.41 | Franciman | uh ok, so probably there was a bugfix in 5.8.14 |
| 09:16.41 | Haohmaru | "<Franciman> well the full story is that I had unexplicable network failures while wifi was connecte" <- i'm not familiar with wifi (i hate it) but can't these symptoms be caused by other factors totally? |
| 09:16.52 | genr8_ | yea. that driver gets touched a lot |
| 09:17.06 | Franciman | and debian has 5.8 as last kernel |
| 09:17.17 | Franciman | debian stable backport |
| 09:17.34 | genr8_ | find the differences |
| 09:17.37 | genr8_ | kernel.org |
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| 09:18.20 | genr8_ | you can recompile the module with more patches if it comes to that |
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| 09:19.10 | genr8_ | and yeah wifi disconnects could be caused by any number of things. its a crapshoot |
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| 09:20.48 | Haohmaru | someone might be amplifying farts at 2.4GHz nearby |
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| 09:54.58 | jelly | Fr... eh. They're likely going to need backported firmware to go with backported kernel if they try that. |
| 09:55.13 | jelly | ,file ath10k/QCA6174/hw3.0 --release buster-backports |
| 09:55.14 | judd | No packages in buster-backports/amd64 were found with that file. |
| 09:55.47 | jelly | ,file ath10k/QCA6174/hw3.0/board-2.bin --release buster-backports |
| 09:55.48 | judd | Search for ath10k/QCA6174/hw3.0/board-2.bin in buster-backports/amd64: firmware-atheros: lib/firmware/ath10k/QCA6174/hw3.0/board-2.bin |
| 09:56.13 | jelly | ",file" is not ",directory" |
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| 10:40.23 | trysten | so um, at the end of https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch06s03.en.html I think I found a small issue. I'm in the install now and I can' seem to find a way to create an encrypted volume using the installer. |
| 10:40.39 | trysten | Am I missing something? |
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| 10:43.14 | genr8_ | yes, its called Encrypted LVM |
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| 10:46.59 | trysten | Oh i'm doing it wrong... Derp. |
| 10:47.17 | trysten | wait. i said create but I meant destroy -.- |
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| 10:48.02 | genr8_ | go into the manual partitioning and delete whats there |
| 10:48.40 | trysten | right, when i select the partition that has the dm-crypt, i don't get to the typical options. Instead I get a red screen with an error |
| 10:49.33 | jelly | the installer can deal with (some configurations of) LUKS, I'm not sure it can deal with dm-crypt |
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| 10:50.22 | trysten | well, it created one well enough. just didn't want to mess with it after that. |
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| 10:50.37 | jelly | trysten, perhaps the "wipefs" command is available in the shell on... Ctrl-Alt-F3 I think |
| 10:51.22 | jelly | but debian-installer isn't the best rescue image and does not have lots of tools |
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| 12:34.27 | genr8_ | ,v openssh-client |
| 12:34.28 | judd | Package: openssh-client on amd64 -- jessie: 1:6.7p1-5+deb8u4; jessie-security: 1:6.7p1-5+deb8u8; stretch-security: 1:7.4p1-10+deb9u6; stretch: 1:7.4p1-10+deb9u7; buster-security: 1:7.9p1-10+deb10u1; buster: 1:7.9p1-10+deb10u2; bullseye: 1:8.3p1-1; sid: 1:8.3p1-1 |
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| 12:44.20 | analogical | in windows I can type an invisible character when pressening alt+255 how do I type the same invisible character in linux? |
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| 12:44.57 | Haohmaru | related, ° <- alt+248 |
| 12:45.04 | jim | hi, I have two kernels installed, and I'm trying to get v4l2loopback module installed (with the dkms package)... strange thing is, the build succeeds with one of the kernels, and fails with the other... here is the failed build output: https://termbin.com/i87wj |
| 12:46.18 | analogical | Haohmaru, ????? |
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| 12:47.48 | Haohmaru | analogical i'm just saying i'm interested to know this too |
| 12:48.00 | Haohmaru | i've been meaning to ask |
| 12:49.36 | towo` | jim, maybe v4l2loopback-dkms does not support kernel 5.4? |
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| 12:51.30 | genr8_ | you need the backport package of v4l2loopback-dkms if you're using the backport kernel |
| 12:52.12 | genr8_ | ,v v4l2loopback-dkms |
| 12:52.13 | judd | Package: v4l2loopback-dkms on amd64 -- jessie: 0.8.0-4; stretch: 0.10.0-1; buster: 0.12.1-1; buster-backports: 0.12.5-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 0.12.5-1; sid: 0.12.5-1 |
| 12:52.21 | genr8_ | yeah. |
| 12:52.34 | genr8_ | apt install -t buster-backports v4l2loopback-dkms |
| 12:53.09 | greycat | so wait, that thing between the 4 and the 2 is a lowercase L, not a one??! |
| 12:53.24 | greycat | no wonder I couldn't find this thing last time I was looking for it |
| 12:53.35 | Fox | lowercase L |
| 12:53.40 | greycat | what sicko came up with this |
| 12:53.48 | Fox | video for linux |
| 12:54.38 | Haohmaru | greycat awww bruuuh, your font is officially fired |
| 12:54.53 | Haohmaru | urgently switch to a coding-grade monospaced font |
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| 12:55.16 | greycat | it's not strictly a font thing. it's the terminal size, my eyes, my glasses.... |
| 12:55.32 | greycat | also WHAT FUCKING SICKO DECIDED to write 412 except the 1 is an l |
| 12:55.41 | Haohmaru | which font are you using? |
| 12:55.44 | greycat | you don't put a lowercase L in the middle of a fucking string of digits |
| 12:56.07 | Haohmaru | i think it's "V4L...2" |
| 12:56.08 | jim | towo`, works in 5.6, is it documented what kernels it supports and which it doesn't? |
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| 12:56.29 | greycat | I think it's called "7x13" |
| 12:56.55 | genr8_ | thats what you get for trying to save pixels |
| 12:56.58 | jim | v4l, video for linux |
| 12:57.24 | jim | v4l2, video for linux, slight return |
| 12:58.01 | Haohmaru | as i suspected: "V4L2 is the second version of V4L" |
| 12:58.46 | genr8_ | FONTSIZE="8x16" |
| 12:59.31 | Haohmaru | greycat your font is called "7x13"? |
| 13:00.24 | genr8_ | yeah, thats what terminal fonts are referred to as. thats a number of pixels |
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| 13:00.55 | Haohmaru | uh.. in my terminal, i select a font from a list, not pixel dimensions |
| 13:01.17 | Haohmaru | or is this a textmode thing? |
| 13:01.22 | genr8_ | text mode. |
| 13:01.24 | genr8_ | oldschool. |
| 13:01.27 | Haohmaru | bruh, wtf |
| 13:01.31 | genr8_ | https://manpages.debian.org/buster/console-setup/console-setup.5.en.html |
| 13:01.44 | Haohmaru | how do you open a picture when i post a link? ;P~ |
| 13:01.54 | Haohmaru | do you ASCIIfy it? |
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| 13:05.10 | genr8_ | speaking of fonts. I have a question: Why do 80% of the fonts in this xfce4-terminal list show up as [:] Symbols https://i.imgur.com/EdkMsZ0.png |
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| 13:05.57 | genr8_ | the cursive "Delphine" font above it works fine. and the fonts show up fine in the list, just not in the text box ... |
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| 13:06.54 | genr8_ | it happens in other programs too. I see a lot of [::] unicode instead of the actual symbol |
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| 13:10.36 | Haohmaru | genr8_ that's the test string |
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| 13:10.52 | Haohmaru | what do you have there? copy it and paste it here |
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| 13:11.28 | Haohmaru | it may be full of exotic chars, or those fonts just don't have glyphs for them or something |
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| 13:11.50 | genr8_ | The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog. |
| 13:11.57 | genr8_ | :) |
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| 13:14.06 | genr8_ | im also having weird kerning/spacing issues when I apply non-monospaced fonts |
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| 13:15.38 | jim | genr8_, 'w' is missing |
| 13:15.52 | jim | wait there it is |
| 13:15.55 | genr8_ | whats also weird, is when I apply the fonts with the broken text string that shows up as [::], it all works fine in the terminal |
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| 13:16.44 | genr8_ | jim, it was a bad string in the screenshot, but its normal text when i paste it. i had to fix it. |
| 13:16.55 | Haohmaru | genr8_ those boxes [::] are actually boxes containing the hex code of the character |
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| 13:17.21 | genr8_ | i realize, but why is it broken in the text box and not anywhere else |
| 13:17.27 | genr8_ | its normal ascii |
| 13:17.36 | Haohmaru | which program is this? |
| 13:17.46 | Haohmaru | ah, xfce terminal |
| 13:17.49 | Haohmaru | lemme see over here |
| 13:17.52 | genr8_ | and some fonts dont have a broken test box |
| 13:18.24 | genr8_ | also whats interesting is the bolding and italicizing still affects the broken test symbols |
| 13:19.05 | Haohmaru | genr8_ same here with that particular font |
| 13:19.10 | Haohmaru | toss that font immediately |
| 13:19.17 | genr8_ | its MOST fonts in that window though |
| 13:19.30 | genr8_ | and they work if I actually apply them. |
| 13:19.42 | Haohmaru | use a monospaced font god damn it |
| 13:19.47 | Haohmaru | this is a terminal |
| 13:19.53 | Haohmaru | try Liberation Mono |
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| 13:20.08 | genr8_ | true. all the mono ones are unbroken. |
| 13:20.30 | Haohmaru | i personally use a bitmap font even, but if i'm stuck with vector fonts -> Liberation Mono |
| 13:20.48 | Haohmaru | basically it's punishing you for using a non-monospaced font |
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| 13:22.52 | genr8_ | gives up and goes back to not caring |
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| 13:31.56 | genr8_ | man theres a lot of fonts packages |
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| 13:36.30 | greycat | Today must be a Thursday. I never could get the hang of Thursdays. |
| 13:36.52 | genr8_ | > when you accidentally download a 59MB font and it unzips to 277MB = fonts-noto-extra |
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| 13:37.46 | Haohmaru | nooooooo, don't touch the Noto fonts |
| 13:37.48 | Haohmaru | x_x |
| 13:37.59 | Haohmaru | they are evil |
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| 13:43.48 | genr8_ | i think you're right. too many foreign languages. just had to undo that mistake. |
| 13:45.08 | genr8_ | these two were OK: fonts-noto-color-emoji fonts-noto-mono - just one font each. |
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| 13:52.38 | genr8_ | hexchat IRC is much more forgiving. no need for monospace. |
| 13:53.29 | genr8_ | turns out this fonts-noto-color-emoji is unusable |
| 13:53.49 | alex11 | isn't noto the microsoft one or something? |
| 13:53.57 | genr8_ | no |
| 13:54.23 | genr8_ | ttf-mscorefonts-installer |
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| 14:00.42 | nevivurn | genr8_: what's wrong with fonts-noto-color-emoji? |
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| 14:02.20 | genr8_ | The 0-9 numbers are freaking ultra-wide emojis or something, that doesnt actually match the look of the rest of the font, but whats worse, it ends up corrupting the spacing |
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| 14:04.32 | nevivurn | genr8_: https://github.com/stove-panini/fontconfig-emoji may fix some stuff |
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| 14:04.51 | nevivurn | I never had issues with numbers, but I did have issues with dejavu |
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| 14:14.03 | genr8_ | ok thanks |
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| 15:33.04 | jim | on the v4l2loopback module, I had 0.12.1-1 which had the build failure with one of the kernels, but then I noticed there was one in buster-backports, and that one worked |
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| 15:45.16 | genr8_ | i said that. |
| 15:46.01 | genr8_ | <genr8_> you need the backport package of v4l2loopback-dkms if you're using the backport kernel |
| 15:46.07 | b1ack0p | hi |
| 15:46.18 | b1ack0p | how can i view exact distro version on terminal? |
| 15:46.29 | azeem | b1ack0p: cat /etc/os-release |
| 15:46.35 | b1ack0p | thanks |
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| 15:46.58 | b1ack0p | i mean debian 10.xxx |
| 15:47.04 | b1ack0p | it just shows debian 10 |
| 15:47.04 | genr8_ | cat /etc/debian_version |
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| 15:47.33 | b1ack0p | thanks |
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| 15:48.47 | Ademan | I have a pretty disk-constrained system running jessie that I want to dist-upgrade, is there a way to temporarily redirect downloads to a different directory (on a separate mount point) ? I guess I could probably symlink /var/cache/apt/archives to somewhere else, but I'm a bit concerned it'll have an effect I'm not thinking of and hose my dist-upgrade partway through lol |
| 15:49.26 | greycat | you can mount a file system on /var/cache/apt/archives |
| 15:49.27 | genr8_ | or you could make that dir a whole new mountpoint. might be more resilient than a symlink. |
| 15:50.02 | Ademan | ah good idea, thanks both of you |
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| 15:59.40 | genr8_ | I just learned something good. you can re-use 1 SSH connection for multiple other connections with ProxyJump commands , and by using ControlPath ~/.ssh/controlmasters/%r@%h:%p \n ControlMaster auto |
| 16:00.57 | genr8_ | it makes a re-usable socket for every connection in that private dir. and it will just know it can re-use whatever exists there |
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| 16:02.16 | genr8_ | saves time unlocking your keyfiles or typing multiple passwords for every jump, and you can stack chains of them up |
| 16:02.59 | m0rr1gan | I have a SMB mounted filesystem that is owned by www-data with 640 perms. I can only access it's contents as root. `getfacl` lists www-data as owner and group with 640 perms. What might be the issue? |
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| 16:05.01 | genr8_ | SMB permissions dont really operate like unix permissions. The SMB login is the user who has write permission on the share |
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| 16:05.38 | genr8_ | so when www-data was not who logged into the SMB share, he wont have write permission |
| 16:06.10 | m0rr1gan | so do I have to make the file world rw? |
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| 16:06.50 | genr8_ | not necessarily, when you mount the SMB share you can declare other UID or GID to add as access |
| 16:06.50 | m0rr1gan | it should be that www-data owns the mount |
| 16:07.11 | genr8_ | hmm |
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| 16:07.12 | m0rr1gan | yea, that's what I've done. 33 is the uid/gid I've mounted the SMB drive as |
| 16:07.24 | m0rr1gan | 33 = www-data for me |
| 16:08.11 | genr8_ | idk, thats gonna be hard to debug over IRC |
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| 16:08.24 | m0rr1gan | any ideas how I should debug it? |
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| 16:09.58 | genr8_ | run mount with no options and paste the relevant line |
| 16:11.00 | m0rr1gan | actually not mounting it manually, it's part of some orchestration |
| 16:11.14 | darkphader | how to safely upgrade stretch to buster, stretch is running 2 stretch lxc containers and a kvm windows 10 |
| 16:11.15 | genr8_ | the plot thickens |
| 16:11.42 | greycat | dpkg, stretch->buster |
| 16:11.42 | dpkg | Read (at least) the upgrading chapter of the <release notes> http://deb.li/JFKc . TL;DR: In /etc/apt/sources.list, change "stretch" to "buster", remove lines like stretch-backports, debian-multimedia <dmo>, and other 3rd party repos as they are known to cause issues then do: apt update && apt upgrade && apt full-upgrade |
| 16:11.49 | m0rr1gan | I'll do some digging, might not be debian specific at this point and more related to my orchestration tool |
| 16:12.02 | genr8_ | darkphader, https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUpgrade |
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| 16:12.29 | darkphader | should the containers be upgraded beofre the host? |
| 16:13.35 | genr8_ | idk. no ? you're gonna have to reboot anyway... theres gonna be downtime |
| 16:14.14 | darkphader | and what would be the results on the kvm vm? |
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| 16:15.00 | darkphader | if I just had the host to consider this would have been done, but the 2 lxc's and kvm are critical |
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| 16:17.46 | darkphader | reasonable downtime (few hours) is not an issue, I just don't want a catastrophe |
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| 16:19.29 | genr8_ | you would really have 2 systems if it was that critical. hard to say without knowing whats in them. I dont think you can really plan for it until you do it |
| 16:20.11 | genr8_ | dont push to prod |
| 16:20.49 | crane | hi, can someone explain me how unattended-upgrades is figuring out of there are updates needed or not? do i need to install apt-listchanges so that my cache is up2date? |
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| 16:22.07 | genr8_ | no |
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| 16:22.46 | eventhorizon5 | crane: it probably just does the equivalent of an 'apt-get update' every once in a while, maybe daily. apt-listchanges is for changelogs; I don't know why you mentioned that. I use aptitude for package management, which I'd recommend if you're looking for management like that. |
| 16:22.48 | genr8_ | its basically a cron script that just runs apt update |
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| 16:25.01 | crane | so unattended-upgrades is then just parsing the package lists which are in cache? |
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| 16:26.27 | genr8_ | no, it updates the cache every night |
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| 16:28.23 | genr8_ | its tied directly to the main apt frontend/dpkg backend and takes actions on its own every night that you would normally be doing or forgetting to do |
| 16:29.12 | crane | and what happens if i define a repository which is not on my system available? |
| 16:29.57 | genr8_ | its skipped and the wrong actions happen |
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