| 00:03.21 | ufeindschiff | Hi, has anyone ever ran into the issue before that when selecting either install or graphical install on an installation image to start the Debian installer, it resets the machine instead of booting into the selected option? This happens both in UEFI mode as well as legacy mode |
| 00:04.32 | dvs | ufeindschiff: I've only heard about this when the .iso is written incorrectly to the media. |
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| 01:58.07 | Matrox | my system had a power failure and shutdown abruptly. in that case is it better to just reboot and let the system recover the ext4 journal? or boot from a liveusb and run fsck -f on the ext4 partitions? I loaded the usb and run fsck right after the power failure, fixed some inodes, and on boot never saw the recovering journal message. |
| 01:58.35 | sney | linux is very good at recovering from power failures in general |
| 01:59.01 | Matrox | does the journal recovering do anything more than fsck? |
| 01:59.05 | sney | using a rescue usb can't hurt, exactly, but it's overkill. when I lose power I just turn the machine back on |
| 01:59.24 | Matrox | when i do that it usually says recovering journal for a bit |
| 01:59.30 | Matrox | and boots |
| 01:59.31 | sney | the 'recovering journal' messages that you see are part of e2fsck |
| 01:59.40 | alex11 | yeah, fixed itself |
| 01:59.55 | mtlsw | Matrox, um why are you asking the exact same pasted question on both #debian and #archlinux? |
| 01:59.56 | Matrox | but afaik if the system runs, and the disks are mounted, e2fsck isn't that useful |
| 02:00.24 | sney | the root disk isn't mounted read-write until after fsck runs |
| 02:00.25 | Matrox | mtlsw, i use both systems. and both use systemd and ext4. |
| 02:00.32 | mtlsw | imh journaling is good if there is a lot of user-disk activity. |
| 02:00.41 | Matrox | sney, didnt know that. good |
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| 02:00.54 | sney | !crosspost |
| 02:00.54 | dpkg | Posting the same question in several places at the same time (IRC channels, news groups, mailing lists, forums) is impolite; your time is NOT more valuable than everyone else's. Your question might be answered elsewhere, meanwhile we are wasting our time doing research for a problem you've already solved. Cross-posting can also make you look like a spammer and get you k:lined. See also <multiple ask> <hurry>. |
| 02:01.04 | alex11 | what happens if you lose power on a package upgrade/dist upgrade? |
| 02:01.15 | sney | the more people notice you crossposting, the less likely we will be to answer your questions in the future. |
| 02:01.29 | sney | alex11: depends on what stage it was in, but usually you can just boot and pick up where you left off |
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| 02:03.43 | sney | you might need to boot in single-user and run an 'dpkg --configure -a' before proceeding normally, if things seem hairy. but this isn't windows and power failure recovery is considered normal use |
| 02:06.33 | alex11 | why single user? |
| 02:07.22 | sney | because most daemons won't be running, so any half-installed services won't even get a chance to fail |
| 02:08.04 | mtlsw | sney, I think you're mixing filesystem corruption with dpkg/apt |
| 02:08.34 | mtlsw | a user doesn't need to be in a emergency/rescue target(systemd -- or "level 1" single user), to do dpkg/apt repair.. |
| 02:08.36 | sney | mtlsw: I am answering alex11's question about what happens if you lose power on a package upgrade |
| 02:08.53 | mtlsw | unless they want to do a remount of "/" to read-only, so that they can run e2fsck.. |
| 02:09.08 | mtlsw | um actually, they should be using e2fsck in that case.. |
| 02:09.26 | sney | most of the time there will be no problem, but if there is, then the usual single-user recovery steps would be next |
| 02:09.51 | sney | sorry I didn't list every single one explicitly |
| 02:10.06 | mtlsw | actually most of the time there "will" be a problem. That's why they need to use e2fsck first. |
| 02:10.07 | mtlsw | ^^ |
| 02:10.10 | mtlsw | !e2fsk |
| 02:10.13 | mtlsw | !e2fsck |
| 02:10.20 | sney | ackchyually |
| 02:10.21 | mtlsw | oh well factoid is lazy today |
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| 02:11.24 | alex11 | e2fsck in multi user mode, then dpkg --configure -a in single user, then continue the upgrades in multi user? |
| 02:11.30 | alex11 | does it matter which mode? |
| 02:12.09 | mtlsw | alex11, just ignore him. he's giving bad advicce. If you lose power, you should always run e2fsck from a single-level -- that is if you can remount "/" to read-only -- or use a Live-CD/USB to do the e2fsck. |
| 02:12.35 | mtlsw | alex11, after just reboot into "normal" boot and perform your "apt-get -f install" |
| 02:14.29 | alex11 | i'm sure the reference manual or something has an entry on this, or the wiki, i should've checked those |
| 02:14.55 | mtlsw | alex11, ++ any other commands -- it should trigger something as "dpkg --configure -a" |
| 02:15.07 | mtlsw | alex11, it's for any operating system. |
| 02:15.20 | mtlsw | alex11, especially for journalled filesystems. |
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| 02:51.45 | alex11 | tl;dr don't update during a thunderstorm. :P |
| 03:01.15 | dvs | unless you have UPSes |
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| 03:09.37 | rk4 | i've been abusing debian for quite a few years now, and come to think about the only time i've had notable problems from immediate loss of power, was with JFS2 |
| 03:11.24 | rk4 | there's a sea of 'appliances' running linux that don't really have a soft power off button, but that we just yank the power to. one supposes in this adverse environment things have become fairly robust |
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| 03:13.10 | mtlsw | um ok, but that has nothing to do with his PC. |
| 03:13.16 | mtlsw | lol |
| 03:13.38 | mtlsw | gtg gn |
| 03:14.37 | rk4 | blinks |
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| 03:21.32 | leoni | Hello. |
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| 03:26.26 | leoni | Since I installed Debian, I've been using root through su. I've read it's "bad practice", but I don't understand how. |
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| 03:29.20 | rk4 | ok 'best practice', 'bad practice', are opinions |
| 03:29.37 | rk4 | maybe the opinion applies to most people, maybe it doesn't |
| 03:29.45 | rk4 | it is fine to switch to root through su. |
| 03:30.53 | leoni | rk4: Alright. The only reason I've been using su instead of sudo is because I believe it's just the traditional way of using root. This is purely biased. |
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| 03:35.45 | rk4 | nods |
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| 03:40.10 | alex11 | well i was willing to believe mtlsw but then he decided to be rude about things |
| 03:40.15 | alex11 | i guess i'll follow the advice anyway |
| 03:40.33 | alex11 | but yeah i'll research this separately |
| 03:43.51 | rk4 | research and decide for yourself, there is chance and tradeoffs to balance |
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| 03:46.44 | alex11 | i wonder if debian just tells you |
| 03:46.54 | alex11 | 'hey, there's a problem, run this specific command' |
| 03:48.04 | PamiPetteri | alex11: many times it does. what is the problem? |
| 03:49.54 | PamiPetteri | alex11: what are you trying to do? what is the app and what are the commandline arguments? I mean the whole command with its parameters. |
| 03:50.22 | alex11 | i have no current problem, i'm just wondering hypothetically what you do in case of a power loss on package upgrades/dist upgrades |
| 03:52.19 | PamiPetteri | alex11: sudo apt -f install or apt -f install as root user, if you enter the root user mode via su or the login mechanism, either virtual console or (not recommended) via the graphical mode (display manager). |
| 03:52.52 | alex11 | right, someone was suggesting do a e2fsck first |
| 03:54.29 | PamiPetteri | alex11: another command is "dpkg --configure -a" as root, you can login as root via the shell, the display manager or with "sudo dpkg --configure -a". I think "sudo apt-get -f install" or "sudo apt -f install" work better - it all depends on what is needed and incomplete. |
| 03:54.49 | alex11 | i know how to become root but thanks :P |
| 04:00.05 | eb0t | hey i have us keyboard and i need uk. |
| 04:00.16 | eb0t | i have looked everywehre and cant get it done |
| 04:00.55 | eb0t | i have even installed console-common then install-keymap gb ..whichfails |
| 04:01.11 | alex11 | eb0t, try checking https://wiki.debian.org/Keyboard for starters |
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| 04:16.31 | A|an | leoni: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/460478/debian-su-and-su-path-differences I can't get to fdisk unless I use su - |
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| 04:37.12 | eb0t | hmm ..looks like i am stuck with american keyboard even though everything states i am gb uk keyboard |
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| 04:37.17 | eb0t | this is atrocious.... |
| 04:37.30 | eb0t | at a blank terminal ..keyboard is gb |
| 04:37.43 | eb0t | as soon as xorg starts it jumps to us |
| 04:38.06 | alex11 | maybe something in .profile? i don't know |
| 04:38.14 | eb0t | ill take a look |
| 04:38.24 | alex11 | just a wild guess, i'm probably wrong |
| 04:38.25 | eb0t | it happened after an apt update and upgrade |
| 04:39.06 | jmcnaught | eb0t: are you using a desktop environment? |
| 04:39.15 | eb0t | yes |
| 04:39.22 | eb0t | i use xmonad |
| 04:39.43 | eb0t | hmm, maybe i will hard wire that if possible |
| 04:40.02 | jmcnaught | Oh I think that is a window manager. I use GNOME and can switch keyboard layouts in settings, which is why I asked. |
| 04:40.53 | PamiPetteri | eb0t: try to change the keyboard layout from the keyboard layout settings of the desktop environment. |
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| 04:41.39 | eb0t | i think i did that PamiPetteri ...but ill recheck to see if for some reason it didnt take into account xorg |
| 04:41.55 | PamiPetteri | eb0t: it should be in the same place as the locale, possibly. you could also try other options. often in the commandline "sudo dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-settings" works. |
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| 04:43.34 | PamiPetteri | dpkg -l|grep keyboard-configuration |
| 04:43.34 | dpkg | no idea, PamiPetteri |
| 04:43.59 | PamiPetteri | sudo dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration |
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| 04:57.28 | alex11 | which is one of the first things the wiki page recommends doing |
| 04:59.34 | eb0t | ok i managed to find the issue |
| 04:59.38 | eb0t | setxkbmap -layout gb |
| 04:59.51 | eb0t | the above command i was running as root....you have to run it as none root |
| 05:00.15 | eb0t | i did all the dpgk-reconfigure stuff..which didnt help |
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| 05:36.28 | hl521 | Hey, for some reason I don't think usermod was installed, what package do I install to get usermod? |
| 05:37.57 | Gerowen | A quick check in my Synaptic shows that accountsservice provides those commands. |
| 05:38.10 | hl521 | thanks |
| 05:38.32 | hl521 | strange, that still doesn't provide it |
| 05:38.33 | leoni | hl521: How do you know they are not installed? |
| 05:38.48 | leoni | I mean, the program is not installed. |
| 05:38.59 | leoni | Do you have manpage for it? |
| 05:39.30 | leoni | Perhaps you have to run it with permissions. |
| 05:39.42 | hl521 | leoni: strange, yes i do |
| 05:39.52 | hl521 | maybe usermod isn't in the $PATH or something |
| 05:39.56 | jmcnaught | hl521: did you use "su" to become root? /sbin/ might not be in your $PATH |
| 05:40.03 | hl521 | yeah, I did |
| 05:40.04 | leoni | Try "su --login root", then try using it. |
| 05:40.08 | hl521 | stby |
| 05:40.12 | jmcnaught | !buster su |
| 05:40.12 | dpkg | In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). To approximate the previous behaviour, put "ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes" in /etc/default/su (create it). See https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes for details. |
| 05:40.28 | leoni | I was going to mention that. |
| 05:40.42 | hl521 | yeah that works |
| 05:40.42 | leoni | You gotta run su with --login. |
| 05:40.53 | hl521 | thanks bud |
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| 06:07.03 | Pegasus_RPG | Hello. I have a system whose kernel I just updated that uses linux bonding. When it boots now, I get "networking[<pid>]: error: Another instance of this program is already running." What the heck does that mean in this context? Which program?? |
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| 07:34.11 | Pegasus_RPG | Fixed my issue...apparently ifupdown2 isn't ready for prime time yet. I just replaced it with ifenslave and ifupdown and all is well. |
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| 07:40.16 | rk4 | ifenslave, lol. if debian was of the github generation there would be complaints |
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| 07:51.30 | ratrace | there still can be |
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| 08:10.08 | hata | just curious, why does this output appear when running apt install? Never seen it before, not sure if it's something I did or if it's part of something updating https://paste.debian.net/1168502/ |
| 08:12.38 | Montresor | You have needsrestart installed. |
| 08:13.17 | hata | ah, perhaps it got installed with docker |
| 08:13.20 | hata | thank you |
| 08:16.17 | Montresor | Sure thing. |
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| 08:19.01 | tramplefoot | how do i prevent wine from accessing my actual / dir? |
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| 08:19.21 | tramplefoot | i keep removing from the drives list in winecfg but somehow it appears in winefile |
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| 08:40.32 | ratrace | ubuntu is even less a debian now... server ISO installer? a snap in itself. |
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| 09:24.06 | Texou | hi |
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| 09:24.45 | Texou | is there a way to know in the repo which packages depend on another one? For example, which packages depend on vlc-bin? |
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| 09:26.44 | taman | Texou, try apt-cache(8) |
| 09:27.02 | Texou | ok thanks |
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| 09:30.03 | Texou | well apt-cache rdepends makes the job |
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| 10:41.45 | powerhouse | I just loaded up debianlive10 no problem but my mouse and keyboard didn't work =( any solutions? I need to boot up using debianlive to use lvresize to resize a partition |
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| 10:44.27 | powerhouse | my mouse and keyboard are nothing fancy "old school" both usb |
| 10:44.36 | ratrace | is that gnome env? |
| 10:44.47 | powerhouse | I'm not certain |
| 10:45.45 | ratrace | which live iso did you use, there's several |
| 10:46.31 | powerhouse | debianlive10.6.0-amd64-cinnamon.iso |
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| 10:47.08 | ratrace | so that's cinnamon then. I asked if that was gnome, in case the live gnome also defaults to using wayland, in which case you could try the xorg session. no idea about cinnamon. |
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| 10:48.45 | powerhouse | okay great, how do I try the xorg session? is that a different iso? |
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| 10:50.17 | dka | Hello, I have a laptop from a third person who uninstalled the linux kernel, now he can't start up the desktop. I have the username, he forgot the password from root and his self |
| 10:50.22 | dka | How can I change the password |
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| 10:51.19 | ratrace | powerhouse: I don't even think cinnamon uses wayland, but if it did, xorg would be present anyway for compatibility reasons. with gnome, you select xorg session on login by clicking the cog icon. no idae about cinnamon. |
| 10:51.51 | ratrace | dka: if there's no kernel....... how do you imagine to boot into it? |
| 10:51.59 | dka | I don't imagine |
| 10:52.13 | nkuttler | dka: use a live cd.. |
| 10:52.23 | dka | now he says he is on ubuntu xD |
| 10:52.25 | ratrace | dka: then you'll have to chroot from a live env and reinstall the kernel |
| 10:52.27 | nkuttler | dka: chroot into filesystem, install kernel, run passwd? |
| 10:52.31 | dka | I don't see any grub loader |
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| 10:52.45 | dka | nkuttler, I can't login into system to reinstall kernel |
| 10:52.58 | nkuttler | dka: please re-read what i wrote |
| 10:53.16 | dka | Yes he as the usb key used to install the OS |
| 10:53.21 | ratrace | I think dka doesn't know what "chroot" means |
| 10:53.22 | dka | since he is on #ubuntu, should I ask support here? |
| 10:53.24 | powerhouse | ratrace, okay will try gnome |
| 10:54.09 | nkuttler | dka: fwiw, the fastest thing to do in such scenarios is usually to reinstall |
| 10:54.15 | ratrace | powerhouse: well that's not what I suggested, I only said what _could_ be the reason on gnome under wayland. cinnamon probably isn't using wayland at all, I don't know which compositor that would be even. |
| 10:54.36 | ratrace | dka: no, you should ask in #ubuntu |
| 10:54.53 | dka | ... the uSB key used shows the Debvian GNU/Linux instgaller boot menu, so he is on ubuntu |
| 10:55.00 | dka | on debian sorry, I am reading about chroot |
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| 10:56.01 | ratrace | dka: you'll need to bind /dev, /proc and /sys into the chroot in order for grub and initramfs to install properly. watch out if /boot is separate, you'll have to mount it into the chroot too |
| 10:56.10 | absinthe | i'd go with nkuttler's suggestion... backup his personal files and reinstall. |
| 10:57.10 | dka | He says the copy fail probably because file name being too long |
| 10:58.07 | dka | can rescue mode help ? |
| 10:58.32 | ratrace | I'm gonna side with absinthe and nkuttler on this one. Backup personal files, reinstall. Or else this is blind leading the blind.... |
| 10:58.38 | absinthe | ah, so there's a boot loader now ? |
| 10:58.45 | dka | instead of having grub, he is having a splash screen |
| 10:58.52 | Brigo | is it possible to uninstall the kernel in debian? should'n that trigget a wave of uninstalled packages, basically the whole system? |
| 10:59.10 | absinthe | no i'd just uninstall the kernel, but with a big warning like |
| 10:59.13 | ratrace | Brigo: nope, the kernel has very little deps, just initramfs and iirc grub |
| 10:59.20 | absinthe | are you sure you want to deinstall the kernel youre running ? |
| 10:59.21 | absinthe | orsl |
| 10:59.25 | ratrace | which makes it installable nicely into contianers |
| 10:59.30 | absinthe | oslt* |
| 11:00.05 | ratrace | Brigo: nope = no wave of installed packages. yes = it's possible to uninstall the kernel |
| 11:00.34 | absinthe | *it'd damn. il stfu and learn to type |
| 11:00.48 | absinthe | *sighs* |
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| 11:01.32 | ratrace | absinthe: I gave up tyrng t fxi ym tpyos lnog tiem go :) |
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| 11:02.59 | absinthe | :> |
| 11:03.12 | Brigo | if the system were Debian Stable i would try to chroot into it with the netinstall usb and try to install the kernel and fix grub, i think it worth a try |
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| 11:06.27 | dka | When he arrive on the console, I can see it's Ubuntu 20.04.1 despite the given install usb key is debian |
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| 11:06.46 | dka | so I assume we can't trust the password he is giving me is correct, considering all those missleading info, I'll switch to #ubuntu |
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| 11:09.20 | unixbsd | hello, do you eventually know a very little app to play ogg file in debian? like mpg123 or smaller, like aplay. |
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| 11:10.44 | orcacomputers | ratrace, powerhouse here. i see no xorg option when booting up with gnome partition editor |
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| 11:11.44 | ratrace | orcacomputers: gnome partition editor? |
| 11:12.23 | orcacomputers | yeah thats what it says when i boot up debianlivegnome |
| 11:12.26 | ratrace | unixbsd: well, ogg123 :) |
| 11:13.06 | ratrace | unixbsd: in the vorbis-tools package |
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| 11:14.18 | ratrace | orcacomputers: I'm at loss what that means, sorry. Isn't the debian gnome live environment just that? the regular gnome env? but anyway ..... you're looking for _wrong_ things. if there's no cog, no way to select xorg session, then it probably already IS xorg session and not a wayland compositor |
| 11:14.55 | ratrace | orcacomputers: which then means another thing ... your kbd and mouse work on the login screen? |
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| 11:16.48 | unixbsd | ah cool thank you |
| 11:18.05 | orcacomputers | ratrace, yeah when I boot up it goes to gnome patition editor which is fine, idc just want my keyboard and mouse to work. when i boot into regular gnome environment i cant do anything because of no key board and mouse. okay. yes keyboard mouse does work at gnome partition editor screen, i have to make a selection to go into debianlive |
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| 11:24.07 | ratrace | orcacomputers: if the keyboard works, maybe you can ctrl-alt-F* into another TTY and inspect the journal? |
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| 11:28.00 | dka | I am able to access the Grub Boot Loader from my lost user access computer. can I recover the root password from there ? |
| 11:28.22 | dka | the older kernel is stuck on "Loading initial ramdisk" |
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| 11:45.43 | Brigo | dka, the password is encrypted, you can't access it from anywhere. You have to get root privileges from other means, like chroot. |
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| 11:48.47 | carandraug | hi! Is there a method to find a package given a file md5sum? I have a file on my system that dpkg-query does not know where it came from, I believe it might have been an install script that moved it. But if there's a way to search by md5sum that would help |
| 11:50.18 | ratrace | carandraug: which path? |
| 11:50.45 | carandraug | ratrace: /lib/libusb |
| 11:51.31 | ratrace | that's a very weird filename... sure it's not an .a or a.so? |
| 11:52.01 | carandraug | ratrace: I'm replying to bug #972703 where I'm asked for the md5sum of that file. I guess they plan to find the package given the md5sum so I guess there must be a way |
| 11:52.02 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/972703 in gnome-boxes (open, moreinfo, unreproducible): «gnome-boxes does not start, undefined symbol libusb_set_option»; severity: grave; opened: 2020-10-22; last modified: 2020-10-23. |
| 11:52.19 | carandraug | ratrace: yes, it's 3 .so (the real so and two symlinks) |
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| 11:53.42 | ratrace | If there's a way, I don't know it. was just curious which file it is |
| 11:53.56 | carandraug | ratrace: the goal is trying to find what packages were installed that led me into this situation. I can just give them the md5sum, they find the package, then I try to reconstruct the history. I was hoping to save them one step |
| 11:54.36 | ratrace | I'm thinking if there's a md5sum in a db, then apt-file should find it by path ... but I suppose yes it's possible the file was moved during an upgrade so current databases don't have the path |
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| 11:56.10 | ratrace | carandraug: ah maybe grep /var/lib/dpkg/info/<package>.md5sums ? |
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| 11:57.29 | ratrace | but eh... might be necessary to grep archives too |
| 11:58.18 | carandraug | ratrace: ah! I will try /var/lib/dpkg/info if not, I guess they'll have archives |
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| 12:47.44 | epsilonKNOT | anyone from debian science here? |
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| 12:48.07 | epsilonKNOT | like i'm wondering how intel mkl is packaged in debian |
| 12:48.13 | epsilonKNOT | its like so not cool |
| 12:48.23 | epsilonKNOT | intels packages are like cancer |
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| 12:53.33 | genr8_ | that package's whole existence is controversial |
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| 12:54.18 | epsilonKNOT | i agree |
| 12:54.52 | unixbsd | I copied the DVD onto /cdromÃ. Now /etc/apt/sources.list with "deb file:///cdrom" into it. But,... apt-get update seems to not work. why? |
| 12:54.54 | epsilonKNOT | afaik intel does not allow binary redistriubtion of its packages |
| 12:55.01 | epsilonKNOT | eeeyyyy unixbsd |
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| 12:55.09 | epsilonKNOT | fancy seeing you here ;) |
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| 12:55.47 | epsilonKNOT | i'm now convinced that theres only 5 people on all of irc and they are the only ones on each channel |
| 12:55.52 | genr8_ | unixbsd, cause that doesnt work like that. |
| 12:55.57 | unixbsd | hi it is unix planet or linux planet. If we have a C compiler and unix architecture, it is good |
| 12:56.02 | genr8_ | you need to use apt-cdrom |
| 12:56.24 | genr8_ | and its too annoying to explain :/ youll have to look into that |
| 12:56.30 | epsilonKNOT | lolol |
| 12:56.48 | unixbsd | I dont need to use apt-cdrom, it is possible by hand. |
| 12:57.23 | genr8_ | then why isnt it |
| 12:57.33 | jelly | unixbsd: does file: URI type in sources list only have a single / after file: |
| 12:58.23 | unixbsd | Ok, I got it. /etc/apt/sources.list with "deb file:/cdrom buster main" apt-get update works now. |
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| 12:59.58 | unixbsd | I do always install on part1 netbsd with grub2 because it is a non automatic grub, and then, I can have several partitions. I copy initrd and vmlinuz and modules, from live dvd, copy the dvd content onto /cdrom and then, all works like a charm. No installer needed, just debootstrap. |
| 13:01.23 | unixbsd | even fdisk on debian modifies my mbr without asking |
| 13:01.40 | unixbsd | *uuid. |
| 13:02.37 | unixbsd | epsilonKNOT: gaming? we play on minetest server, or manaplus, ... EL? |
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| 13:03.09 | jelly | unixbsd: I'm pretty sure fdisk won't modify ANYTHING until you explicitly ask it to [w]rite |
| 13:03.56 | unixbsd | the signature? |
| 13:06.09 | jelly | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:08.31 | epsilonKNOT | ? |
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| 13:09.05 | epsilonKNOT | theres like two people sebastian and mo who are managing all blas lapack things |
| 13:09.15 | epsilonKNOT | mo is awol afaik |
| 13:09.21 | epsilonKNOT | need to send messages to sebastian i guess |
| 13:10.06 | jelly | just send mail to the team address |
| 13:10.50 | jelly | ,maintainer src:lapack |
| 13:10.51 | judd | Sorry, there is no record of 'src:lapack'. |
| 13:11.27 | jelly | ,maintainer liblapack-doc |
| 13:11.28 | judd | Package lapack version 3.4.2-1~exp3 was uploaded by Sylvestre Ledru on 2012-09-29, last changed by Sylvestre Ledru and maintained by Debian Science Team. |
| 13:11.42 | jelly | great |
| 13:11.58 | jelly | Maintainer: Debian Science Team <debian-science-maintainers at lists.alioth.debian.org> # that thing |
| 13:12.14 | epsilonKNOT | noice thanks!! |
| 13:12.30 | epsilonKNOT | i'm not familiar with debian interfacing and looking up packages |
| 13:12.39 | jelly | epsilonKNOT: also, most debian devs are on irc.OFTC.net now, not freenode |
| 13:12.45 | epsilonKNOT | O: |
| 13:12.49 | epsilonKNOT | not cool |
| 13:12.58 | epsilonKNOT | throws a radiation banana grenade at devs |
| 13:13.00 | jelly | irc.debian.org = irc.oftc.net for about 15 years now |
| 13:13.21 | epsilonKNOT | that email address is longer than my thesis |
| 13:13.50 | jelly | and there's a #debian-science channel over there |
| 13:14.16 | unixbsd | cool |
| 13:14.22 | unixbsd | science is coool |
| 13:14.32 | epsilonKNOT | chica chica |
| 13:14.34 | epsilonKNOT | thanks |
| 13:14.36 | epsilonKNOT | gonna go bother them |
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| 13:16.55 | jelly | small channel, patience is advised |
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| 13:22.09 | genr8_ | E: The repository 'file:/mnt/Debian10.3.0amd64-1 buster Release' is not signed. N: Updating from such a repository can't be done securely, and is therefore disabled by default. |
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| 13:23.25 | genr8_ | so yeah, apt update works, but the repo was disabled... |
| 13:25.42 | genr8_ | not sure if he ignored that message or what |
| 13:26.57 | epsilonKNOT | lol jelly, that science channel is as large as the gentoo science |
| 13:27.09 | jelly | genr8_: weird, if it's a verbatim copy of dvd it ought to be signed? |
| 13:27.56 | jelly | epsilonKNOT: well debian _has_ historically been used a lot in edu |
| 13:28.08 | genr8_ | ive never experienced that to be the case, and ive tried multiple methods |
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| 13:28.14 | epsilonKNOT | i take it back |
| 13:28.23 | epsilonKNOT | that science channel is double size of gentoo science |
| 13:28.44 | iamjfk11 | genr8_ Debian does not currently sign the Release files on its CDs; apt can be configured to always trust packages from CDs so this is not a large problem. |
| 13:28.51 | iamjfk11 | that's refer to apt secure |
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| 13:29.02 | jelly | epsilonKNOT: but it's still weekend, and who knows how many people there are just lurkers like me |
| 13:29.09 | iamjfk11 | https://wiki.debian.org/SecureApt |
| 13:29.33 | epsilonKNOT | i'm chill with waiting |
| 13:29.41 | epsilonKNOT | infact, i'm so chill i need a second bra |
| 13:30.03 | epsilonKNOT | but yea |
| 13:30.17 | epsilonKNOT | that mkl package is scary and a HUGE PITA |
| 13:30.42 | genr8_ | iamjfk11, i realize that, but i was commenting on the person who said "sure just add file:/cdrom" job done... its not so simple |
| 13:31.17 | genr8_ | i was always under the impression you actually had to DEAL with this signing issue, as you said. |
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| 13:32.06 | jelly | I honestly thought they were signed, and I also was too lazy to verify |
| 13:33.21 | jelly | you can verify the whole .iso but I doubt apt does that at all |
| 13:34.04 | jelly | also, waiting for the whole dvd iso to be verified each time you wanted to install another package would be a PITA |
| 13:34.15 | genr8_ | thats why i mentioned apt-cdrom |
| 13:34.32 | genr8_ | he was like NOPE DONT NEED IT. so i have no idea what he did. |
| 13:34.52 | jelly | ¯\_(ã)_/¯ |
| 13:35.51 | iamjfk11 | apt-get update --allow-releaseinfo-change |
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| 13:36.45 | Velazor | gf |
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| 13:37.04 | iamjfk11 | According to the official documentation at this time, rebuilding a Droplet to a different base OS distribution can cause issues and is not recommended. Instead, you should create a new Droplet using your chosen distribution and migrate to it. |
| 13:37.04 | iamjfk11 | But from the error that Iâm seeing I think that you might have to update your repository list to match the Debian repositories. You could try to check the contents of /etc/apt/sources.lit on your rebuilt droplet and the new Debian droplet and make sure that they match. |
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| 13:38.25 | genr8_ | apt-secure mentions you can use the "deb [allow-insecure=yes] " option in sources.list. then it STILL gives those warnings, but doesnt disable the repo |
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| 13:44.35 | Veltum | hello |
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| 14:31.08 | SanchoPensa | hey, guys! |
| 14:31.36 | wyoung | hey, girls! |
| 14:32.04 | SanchoPensa | since a week back, or so, I cannot seem to copy-paste by highlighting and middle mouse anymore, I am on Xfce. How do I fix this? |
| 14:32.11 | wyoung | and the other 118 permutations of gender these days |
| 14:33.07 | SanchoPensa | wyoung: is this a Linux help channel, or a debate on gender non-sense channel? |
| 14:33.36 | ratrace | well truth is, not only "guys" are here so.... |
| 14:34.14 | nkuttler | hey guys is not a gendered greeting to most English speakers |
| 14:34.17 | SanchoPensa | ratrace: ya, well, I have been watching about 1.000 80ies and 90ies sitcoms, where women adress each other with hi guys, so... |
| 14:34.36 | wyoung | nkuttler: Yeah it is though, use folks, group, channel, even gang |
| 14:34.59 | wyoung | SanchoPensa: You still need to be respectful of peple |
| 14:35.02 | wyoung | people* |
| 14:35.03 | SanchoPensa | and other than that, would I appreciate it, I you keep your OPINIONS to your selves, and focus on the topic. |
| 14:35.04 | nkuttler | wyoung: please try to be more accepting of people who speak a different English variety than you do. you just show intolerance |
| 14:35.06 | SanchoPensa | well I am. |
| 14:35.39 | SanchoPensa | I consider it not so much respectful, when people believe, they have to boss other people around with their OPINIONS. |
| 14:35.46 | wyoung | SanchoPensa: Read the channel guidlines, there's a big section about distrimation |
| 14:36.05 | SanchoPensa | wyoung: I am not discriminating agains anybody. |
| 14:36.05 | nkuttler | wyoung: what you are doing is linguistically motivated discrimination |
| 14:36.16 | wyoung | nkuttler: rofl |
| 14:36.20 | SanchoPensa | exactly. |
| 14:36.56 | SanchoPensa | other than that, I am here, because I have a Linux question, not to be lectured on your OPINIONS. |
| 14:36.59 | wyoung | nkuttler: I believe speaking english in this channel is also in the CoC |
| 14:37.06 | ratrace | anyhoo, that's been sorted. about that middle click.... what changed since? |
| 14:37.08 | wyoung | SanchoPensa: It's not an opionion |
| 14:37.16 | nkuttler | wyoung: can we move on now? |
| 14:37.16 | wyoung | SanchoPensa: it's the guidlines of this channel |
| 14:37.24 | SanchoPensa | wyoung: yes it is. |
| 14:37.27 | wyoung | SanchoPensa: if you don't agree with them then leave |
| 14:37.32 | wyoung | nkuttler: sure |
| 14:37.48 | nkuttler | wyoung: which CoC and which channel? |
| 14:37.57 | wyoung | nkuttler: This one |
| 14:38.09 | nkuttler | wyoung: care to show me a link to a CoC? |
| 14:38.13 | SanchoPensa | and the guidelines are set by the community. I have been part of this community for 25 years, I have contributed plenty, and I do not agree with your linguistic fascism |
| 14:38.16 | wyoung | nkuttler: It's in the topic |
| 14:38.34 | nkuttler | wyoung: there's no link in the topic |
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| 14:38.37 | ratrace | one doesn't need a CoC to know that greeting everyone, not just men, is polite. ANYHOOO that's been rehashed now, parties notified , so pls, let's move on |
| 14:38.40 | SanchoPensa | ratrace: nothing that I am aware of. just the usual updates... |
| 14:38.45 | wyoung | nkuttler: Bring that up with the ops, there sshould be one |
| 14:39.00 | wyoung | ratrace: done |
| 14:39.02 | nkuttler | wyoung: you may be confusing this channel with a different one |
| 14:39.03 | ratrace | SanchoPensa: and you can't select & middle-click paste in _any_ program? or just some? |
| 14:39.15 | SanchoPensa | ratrace: works nowhere |
| 14:40.28 | wyoung | nkuttler: no, this is an anal retentive channel, it has a CoC |
| 14:41.00 | derpadmin | what the hell is happening to debian |
| 14:41.14 | wyoung | derpadmin: What do you mean? Buster is the best! |
| 14:41.15 | derpadmin | you guys are aware that the ISS runs debian? |
| 14:41.20 | derpadmin | make ourselves proud |
| 14:41.22 | nkuttler | derpadmin: people trying to enforce their understanding of language.. |
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| 14:41.49 | SanchoPensa | nkuttler: exactly. and their libdem point of views. |
| 14:41.50 | wyoung | nkuttler: No, just trying to weed out discrimination and bigitory |
| 14:42.03 | SanchoPensa | this is a tech-help channel, not a political one. |
| 14:42.08 | ratrace | still... |
| 14:42.16 | nkuttler | wyoung: there is no discrimination here other than yours |
| 14:42.35 | derpadmin | I did not quite follow because I am sleep deprived, but imo guys encompass girls |
| 14:42.43 | derpadmin | or group |
| 14:42.44 | SanchoPensa | I have been entering this channel vor 25 years now with the same greeting. hey, guys. Wich I personally consider to be gender neutral. |
| 14:42.48 | nkuttler | derpadmin: well, not for everybody |
| 14:43.12 | SanchoPensa | If SOME of you consider that to be otherwise, then that is your OPINION. |
| 14:43.25 | nkuttler | derpadmin: but some people think their understanding of language is superior to all others |
| 14:43.46 | derpadmin | I... don't care |
| 14:43.48 | SanchoPensa | I wish not to be lectured on political matters, that a subject to subjective perceptions in a Linux tech help channel. |
| 14:44.01 | nkuttler | as an immigrant i've had to deal with enough nazi skins and other assholes in my youth to recognize the behavior |
| 14:44.04 | wyoung | nkuttler: I wasn't discriminating, I was pointing out distrimination |
| 14:44.16 | wyoung | mobile phone keyboard fail |
| 14:44.37 | jmcnaught | Seems like an overreaction to being reminded that not everyone likes to be called a guy. Not that big a deal. |
| 14:44.41 | SanchoPensa | wyoung: you are being INTOLERANT, while you are lecturing on equality. Do you see the oxymoron? |
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| 14:45.01 | SanchoPensa | jmcnaught: and neither is being called a guy. |
| 14:45.13 | wyoung | SanchoPensa: I am not being intolerant, I am pointing out your error, |
| 14:45.25 | wyoung | Be a better person |
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| 14:46.06 | SanchoPensa | wyoung: it is not an error in my perception. And YES, you are being intolerant, since you keep lecturing me OFFTOPIC in an Linux TECH HELP CHANNEL on your OPINION. The one, that I do not share. |
| 14:46.24 | SanchoPensa | wyoung: It is not for you to jufdge, what kind of person I am. |
| 14:46.29 | wyoung | Don't worry, everyone makes mistakes, just learn from them. |
| 14:46.37 | derpadmin | I think I will have to side with SanchoPensa, nothing disrespectful was said here and guys emcompass pretty much all genders imo |
| 14:46.40 | another | https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/guys |
| 14:46.42 | SanchoPensa | Unfuckingbelievable. |
| 14:46.56 | wyoung | SanchoPensa: It's not an opinion, it's how you shoul act in this channel |
| 14:46.57 | SanchoPensa | derpadmin: thank you! |
| 14:47.21 | wyoung | derpadmin: Genders with penises, yes |
| 14:47.28 | nkuttler | another: it's not like facts matter to some people |
| 14:47.39 | SanchoPensa | wyoung: since I am not on the same page as you are, and since I find absolutely nothing wrong about it, YES, it is an opinion. A liberal mainstream OPINION. |
| 14:47.42 | derpadmin | well, girls at work say guys... |
| 14:47.56 | SanchoPensa | derpadmin: exactly. |
| 14:47.58 | SanchoPensa | my |
| 14:48.00 | SanchoPensa | point. |
| 14:48.03 | wyoung | derpadmin: Not PC |
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| 14:48.19 | SanchoPensa | If Ladies greet each other with hey guys, the do I not need lecturing by da language police. |
| 14:48.28 | derpadmin | I wear makeup, i'm a dude, SanchoPensa sure did not offence anyone here |
| 14:48.34 | derpadmin | just pass to something else |
| 14:48.42 | derpadmin | thank you |
| 14:48.45 | derpadmin | please come again |
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| 14:48.51 | jmcnaught | I do not see the need to be so defensive about it. |
| 14:48.54 | SanchoPensa | and I am bisexual, if you need to know, and no, I am not offendet by other peoples use of language. |
| 14:49.32 | another | wyoung: merriam-webster considers it unisex. if you disagree with that common perception... well, that's just like, you're opinion, man |
| 14:49.46 | wyoung | Webster isn't English |
| 14:49.55 | wyoung | Oxford iss |
| 14:49.58 | wyoung | is* |
| 14:50.02 | nkuttler | jmcnaught: i would not classify that as overreaction. a person's language is a part of their identity, it's at their very core. being intolerant of language that's widely in use is quite hostile |
| 14:50.15 | SanchoPensa | things have the meaning that you ASCRIBE to them, and wyoung I do ascribe a different meaning to the word guys, than do you. |
| 14:50.15 | SanchoPensa | Yet still I am not lecturing you. |
| 14:51.04 | SanchoPensa | so. |
| 14:51.13 | ratrace | SanchoPensa: see now you're being pushy and bully about this. could've dropped it long time ago but no.... now YOU need to lecture about who is or isn't "libdem". |
| 14:51.29 | SanchoPensa | can we now pleas talk about it, why my middle mouse button does not copy paste any longer? THANK YOU! |
| 14:52.08 | SanchoPensa | ratrace: Look. I have been entering this channel for the last 25 years with the same greeting. |
| 14:52.24 | SanchoPensa | this is the first time in 25 years, that somebody feels an urge to lecture me about it. |
| 14:52.46 | SanchoPensa | I want to set this straight, since I do not want to get lectured on it again the next time I do. |
| 14:53.07 | ratrace | SanchoPensa: well fine, you said so, your conscience is clear, so let's drop the subject |
| 14:53.12 | another | 'nuff said. don't feed trolls. another out. |
| 14:53.24 | SanchoPensa | I am not being pushy, I am making it clear, that I am part of the community, and as a part of the community, I feel, like I have a right to state, that I feel otherwise about this topic. |
| 14:53.56 | SanchoPensa | since I have been lectured. It wasn't me who started it. Right? |
| 14:53.59 | SanchoPensa | NOW. |
| 14:54.03 | absinthe | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet,_nobody_knows_you%27re_a_dog |
| 14:54.19 | SanchoPensa | I agree, that we should return to the topic. If you can, Please. |
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| 14:57.20 | absinthe | SanchoPensa: does it work if you ctrl^V ? |
| 14:57.32 | SanchoPensa | absinthe: yes, it does! |
| 14:57.51 | absinthe | seem slike it's a primary/secondary ... mh |
| 14:57.56 | absinthe | can't find back the workds |
| 14:58.15 | absinthe | primary/secondary clipstuff |
| 14:58.23 | absinthe | :| |
| 14:58.27 | SanchoPensa | appears to me like the "key-binding" of the middle mous button somehow got lost |
| 14:58.35 | absinthe | no |
| 14:58.37 | derpadmin | did you check the mouse mapping in the configs? something change? I know, sometimes, some programs bork my copy paste too (looking at you kmail) |
| 14:58.50 | absinthe | well, could be, but not imho |
| 14:59.20 | SanchoPensa | point is, I can't even find a setting within Xfce to change the button-mappings of my mouse... |
| 14:59.25 | absinthe | https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/clipboard |
| 14:59.57 | absinthe | sorry, archwiki is kindo of my bible, even on other distros |
| 15:00.04 | absinthe | kind of* |
| 15:01.00 | SanchoPensa | absinthe: that's ok. I do, however, not quite know, what to do with it? |
| 15:03.44 | Voltum | does debian 10 buster, have nftables support in the kernel? |
| 15:04.04 | Voltum | do i just install nftables package, setup its config and i am done? |
| 15:04.16 | Voltum | (or is ther any service to enable) |
| 15:04.40 | absinthe | im not sure but it seems "clipman" is the copy/paste thing used on xfce, perhaps there's an option to make it use the primary or secondary clipboard |
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| 15:04.54 | jmcnaught | Voltum: https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-whats-new.en.html#nftables |
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| 15:05.04 | absinthe | SanchoPensa: sorry i don't have a solution, it's just some kind of (perhaps wrong) hint |
| 15:06.21 | SanchoPensa | absinthe: maybe I'm a step further through that hint; when I higlight something, it does also not show up in my clipman xfce panle-plugin... |
| 15:06.35 | SanchoPensa | only, if I explicitly copy it... |
| 15:06.50 | SanchoPensa | this is really weird... |
| 15:07.13 | another | that sounds like standard behaviour |
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| 15:08.38 | SanchoPensa | another: I can't tell, I never looked.. :D |
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| 15:11.16 | another | i only experienced the "copy on selection" behaviour on KDE |
| 15:11.35 | another | where i immediately turned it off |
| 15:12.03 | SanchoPensa | another: worked for me in every desktop I ever used... and I seriously miss it, since I use it all the time... |
| 15:13.04 | absinthe | does shift^insert works ? |
| 15:13.32 | SanchoPensa | another: thanks for the correct term, though, that eases the googling a lot! |
| 15:13.34 | absinthe | iirc it has the same behaviour as middle clic |
| 15:14.08 | SanchoPensa | absinthe: yes, it does, but I have to copy it explicitly too, if I just select, it also doesn't |
| 15:15.12 | absinthe | ah, not what i was expecting :x |
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| 15:19.55 | SanchoPensa | phew... the only threads I can seem to find date back to 2009 to 2014... seems like I have exhumed one very old bug... |
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| 15:32.19 | Voltum | does iptables have a systemd service?\ |
| 15:32.24 | Voltum | like nftables does |
| 15:33.11 | Voltum | or do i manually have to restore iptables rules on reboot |
| 15:33.43 | rudi_s | Voltum: There's iptables-persistent (separate package) which does it for you. |
| 15:34.16 | Voltum | rudi_s, oh i want to use nftables. i just wanted to make sure iptables won't interfere |
| 15:34.26 | Voltum | so i was thinking of purging it or just disabling it service |
| 15:34.31 | rudi_s | Voltum: Ah, then no. Nothing to do. |
| 15:34.44 | Voltum | is it a good idea to uninstall iptables first? |
| 15:34.48 | Voltum | or will i break anything |
| 15:35.01 | rudi_s | Voltum: You can uninstall it if you don't need it. Won't break anything. |
| 15:36.47 | Voltum | also nftables support is built within debian kernel right? |
| 15:38.18 | ratrace | you can use iptables, as it uses nft in the backend |
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| 15:41.46 | rudi_s | Voltum: Yes |
| 15:41.55 | rudi_s | ratrace: Unless you use the iptables-legacy binaries |
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| 15:42.21 | ratrace | right |
| 15:43.16 | Voltum | i will use nftables. handy since i can have rules for both ipv4 and ipv6 in a single command. and also has a systemd service |
| 15:43.36 | Voltum | i will create the config file and start the systemd service |
| 15:43.42 | Voltum | and i hope i dont get locked out of ssh |
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| 15:45.47 | rudi_s | Voltum: iptables has an iptables-apply command which performs a rollback if you don't acknowledge it after a timeout. Not sure if nft provides something similar. |
| 15:46.04 | ratrace | Voltum: with iptables, the trick I use to not lock myself is this: iptables-restore /etc/iptables/rules.v4 ; sleep 30 ; iptables -F ; iptables -P INPUT ACCEPT |
| 15:46.09 | rudi_s | (Btw. you can do that with iptables to, just pass the same ruleset to iptables-restore and ip6tableas-restore, using -4 and -6 restricts it only to ipv4 and ipv6.) |
| 15:46.36 | ratrace | Voltum: the config file is for iptables-persistent; but the idea is to set it, sleep and flush unless I can ctrl-c because I didn't disconnect myself |
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| 15:47.20 | Voltum | ratrace, since you do iptables -F, do you still need to change the policy to accept? |
| 15:48.16 | Voltum | the default is accept all input |
| 15:48.47 | rudi_s | Voltum: -F just flushes the rules, not change the default policies |
| 15:49.06 | Voltum | oh i see. |
| 15:49.08 | rudi_s | For that reason I never change the default policies. If I want to DROP everything I just add a -j DROP at the end. |
| 15:49.42 | Voltum | but on reboot default policy is lost right? if you dont ue iptables-persistent? |
| 15:50.14 | ratrace | Voltum: yes, -F doesn't change -P |
| 15:50.46 | ratrace | rudi_s: it's the same thing at the end |
| 15:51.11 | ratrace | if you -j DROP at the end, or use -P DROP, the latter only requires one extra step aftre -F |
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| 15:51.46 | ratrace | Voltum: right, packet filter config is not persistent across reboots withotu something to reapply it |
| 15:52.48 | rudi_s | ratrace: Sure, but DROP is more consistent and also easier to read (as you can easily follow the rules and don't have to look at the top for the default policy). However, I almost never use iptables directly anyway (as it isn't atomic) but instead use ip{,6}tables-restore to apply the ruleset. |
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| 15:53.43 | ratrace | rudi_s: it's not atomic even with iptables-restore? |
| 15:54.10 | ratrace | pretty sure an error in the policy would not COMMIT at the end |
| 15:54.31 | rudi_s | ratrace: It is. |
| 15:54.41 | rudi_s | But iptables -F; iptables -P INPUT ACCEPT isn't |
| 15:54.50 | rudi_s | (Or similar stuff with multiple iptables commands.) |
| 15:55.14 | ratrace | rudi_s: right. you can reverse the order if you're affraid that -F will leave you hanging before -P applies :) |
| 15:55.35 | rudi_s | Btw. in Debian there's iptables-apply which does basically what you said with iptables -F/-P (except it restores the last ruleset). |
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| 15:55.59 | ratrace | personally i'm still using the iptables interface because I don't wanna bother learning yet another firewall language that MIGHT very well be replaced soon with ..... yet another, BPF based |
| 15:56.12 | rudi_s | But I just use iptables-restore (and hope I don't lock myself out). |
| 15:56.25 | rudi_s | (Otherwise I'd have to use the console/serial to get access again.) |
| 15:56.34 | rudi_s | Me too, I don't see much advantage in nftables. |
| 15:56.50 | ratrace | hence the restore; sleep; flush trio in case you DO lock yourself up |
| 15:56.57 | jhutchins | Voltum: What you need to do is set up a script that will load the new rules, then if you don't connect and shut the script down within a certain time, it reverts the changes. |
| 15:57.10 | ratrace | obvs, must be done through tmux or screen |
| 15:57.49 | ratrace | but these days I have a test VM where I test the ansible scripts which includes iptables rules .... no longer modify it with vim in production :) |
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| 16:21.57 | bla | Hello. |
| 16:23.23 | jhutchins | o/ |
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| 16:26.33 | bla | Can someone share a "debianic way" of doing container orchestration? :) on multiple tutorials I die a little each time pipeing to bash is suggested or downloading go binaries from somewhere. |
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| 16:27.48 | bla | There might be no better way currently. Debian has swarm which turned out to be problematic. It has docker, but running k8s in docker is not production-way to do it. It seems. |
| 16:28.28 | bla | Mesos might be easy to handle... but maybe you just have a nice solution? |
| 16:28.50 | ratrace | k8s is the defacto way for mass container deployment these days |
| 16:29.28 | enocoffee | what scale are we talking about? |
| 16:29.46 | bla | Is there some resource of doing it with debian... "cleanly" or just grab rancher amd use it? |
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| 16:30.11 | bla | Varied; on premise in company, 6-12 servers for example |
| 16:30.21 | bla | Split into few projects. |
| 16:30.32 | bla | So small to medium scale. |
| 16:31.20 | enocoffee | then k8s for sure with upstream sources. |
| 16:32.14 | bla | So you suggest ignoring rancher; taking vanilla source, building, installing and going with it, right? |
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| 16:32.36 | bla | Handling security then manually. |
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| 16:34.14 | enocoffee | last time i've build a k8s cluster i did it using kubeadm. but rancher might be the right way to go so i won't give a definitive answer here. |
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| 16:35.01 | unixbsd | do you know a little UTC time clock ? |
| 16:35.08 | unixbsd | gtk or similar |
| 16:35.45 | enocoffee | i just meant that we are far past anything that could be called "debianic" in any way :D |
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| 16:36.33 | ratrace | unixbsd: most DEs and some WMs have their own widgets |
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| 16:37.50 | bla | enocoffee: heh ok. Felt so. |
| 16:38.22 | ratrace | bla: do you need k8s for 6-12 servers really? |
| 16:38.30 | bla | I'd seriously hope for a simple k8s in Debian. |
| 16:38.52 | enocoffee | k8s isn't overkill for 6-12 servers. |
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| 16:39.02 | enocoffee | it depends on your needs |
| 16:39.05 | bla | ratrace: idk. I currently use Swarm. But I need host networking sometimes amd it wasn't available. |
| 16:39.35 | enocoffee | k8s scales from very small to massive. |
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| 16:40.05 | bla | Also app uses around 20 containers and requires HA. That's already a lot for manual work. |
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| 16:41.06 | ratrace | k8s scales yes but my question is, is the complexity overhad really needed for a project that small. k8s benefits are in vast deployments where you need to constantly change number and calass of containers. starting, stopping, failover'ing, etc... |
| 16:41.20 | ratrace | 6-12 sounds like something you set up once and it stays like that for good |
| 16:41.28 | bla | Currently it's a Debian on physical machines, in containers, everywhere. |
| 16:42.02 | bla | ratrace: physical servers are static, but containers, environments, etc. change a lot. |
| 16:42.17 | ratrace | we have few dozen dedicated servers and zero containers (other than what you "containerize" with systemd service units) ... so I'm trying to understand other people's use cases |
| 16:43.20 | bla | ratrace: well. We can click "deploy" on jenkins and have the app on the test environment automatically. It's compatible with what is being run on the dev's laptops. How do you do it with systemd alone? |
| 16:43.32 | bla | Deploying on prod isn't much further from that too. |
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| 16:43.49 | ratrace | bla: we do that with a static test VM , git and ansible |
| 16:44.17 | ratrace | prod is git + ansible + .deb packaging + apt install or upgrade |
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| 16:44.51 | ratrace | I see zero need for containers like docker.... so I'm trying to understand why others are jumping to containers for such small deployments |
| 16:45.09 | bla | Ok. We're happy with running containers and not VMs on laptops though. Nor having to carry a golden image, or update and distribute a large image. |
| 16:45.27 | bla | Well, you should probably try for something. |
| 16:45.54 | bla | Having "docker-compose up" set up 10 services on dev's laptop, in a compatible way across all devs laptops, |
| 16:46.09 | bla | and be able to change dependencies on the go and just rebuild what needs to be rebuilt is really handy |
| 16:46.27 | bla | I'm all for docker + docker-compose. I start to have problems with doing a bit bigger, "medium" orchestration. |
| 16:46.52 | bla | Because on-cloud k8s seems to be a standard, fine; I'd like something wayy simpler - but achieve high-availability in case of app/containers/servers failures. |
| 16:47.01 | ratrace | but aside from testing, why you need containers in prod, if they're just regular debian things? |
| 16:47.17 | bla | Isolation helps |
| 16:47.36 | bla | Moving app with all dependencies in an already tested docker image helps. |
| 16:48.37 | bla | You can of course build a .deb file and install it. That's kinda similar, but docker is rather simpler. |
| 16:48.53 | ratrace | we achieve that with ansible playbook and homogenous debian installations, ie. all is debian 10, in prod and testing |
| 16:48.55 | bla | Unsure how it impacts development. |
| 16:49.15 | bla | I've got devs with ubuntu on laptops, bullseye or buster on laptops. They'd have to use VMs |
| 16:49.20 | ratrace | so apt install services and deps, set up configs and it works 100% reliably on any such installation |
| 16:49.33 | enocoffee | it's an efficient workflow and the automated recovery is a nice feature. treating everything as disposable, hosts, storage, containers.. .simplifies recovery and administration. |
| 16:49.41 | bla | Also - docker is idempotent and "static" once built. You don't get system cruft which can fail your testing/build or anything |
| 16:49.42 | ratrace | no, you have one VM where you pull stuff from git, for example, deploy, find what needs adjustment, and then redeploy that to prod |
| 16:50.00 | ratrace | but alright, I see how a docker would be tempting to lazy it ou |
| 16:50.02 | ratrace | *out |
| 16:50.26 | bla | "find what needs adjustment" is something we don't have to do really. |
| 16:50.37 | ratrace | I'd never in a million years use it as dockerizing promotes bad habits, unpatched code, unstandard practices, heterogenous ten thousand different versions and cases and subconfigurations and blah... |
| 16:50.45 | bla | Well - we do it during development. Later it's just there. |
| 16:51.23 | bla | You can probably say same about packaging stuff in .deb. It makes you lazy. ;p In some ways. |
| 16:52.05 | ratrace | no because, eg. openssl update is an `apt update` trigger away. with docker we'd have to rebuild and redeploy massively more amount of stuff just for single lib update. |
| 16:52.06 | bla | If required I can move my app out of debian servers too. But hopefully I won't have to. |
| 16:52.24 | ratrace | and so users tend to not do that but keep vulnerable "I'll upgrde it later with other things" kinda mindset |
| 16:52.32 | bla | We do deployments once a week mostly. This deployments include building a docker image with apt update && full-upgrade. |
| 16:52.41 | ratrace | I mean I had devs that wanted docker. That went very ugly and I banned it on our network. |
| 16:52.55 | bla | That's how I feel about npm to be honest. Can't help it though. |
| 16:53.27 | bla | Over docker I have a control. Process ensures that the images build are always patched when it comes to the OS. |
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| 16:53.43 | bla | That's mostly because we have the dockers on Debian though. No "pulling dockers" out of the blue. |
| 16:53.51 | ratrace | right. |
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| 17:07.33 | hmuller | I am curious how a grub based system rotates kernels in /boot, anyone have a pointer to read? |
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| 17:09.22 | ratrace | doesn't. you have to autoremove (or there's a package that does that iirc), and grub always lists all the kernels it finds in /boot |
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| 17:09.35 | ratrace | so by removing old you get the "rotation" |
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| 17:14.10 | hmuller | right, i currently have 3 kernels in boot, If I autoremove, I still have two kernels. the latest and the previous |
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| 17:14.54 | hmuller | i guess that's the question, how does the system know to keep the latest and the previous |
| 17:15.14 | verblendet | hi, ok, quuestionm, installed latest debian from netinstall, 10.6, choosed sddm to be my windowsthingy, i created a user, but its not on the list and there is NO option to enter username. where is sddm.conf? nothing in /etc, thank you |
| 17:15.33 | ratrace | hmuller: it doesn't. if you forgot to autoremove and accumulated 10 kernels, all 10 would be found and listed by grub |
| 17:15.53 | verblendet | i created a user with uid ~500, its a config thingy i guess, so where to configure it and how to get a simple username enter field like in good old days? |
| 17:15.54 | ratrace | so the "rotation" (and I put that in quotes because it only looks like it) comes from the function of autoremoving packages |
| 17:16.29 | ratrace | verblendet: why uid 500? |
| 17:16.36 | verblendet | why not? |
| 17:17.02 | verblendet | ratrace, thats not the questiuon here and i dont wa<nt to discuss that, ok? |
| 17:17.14 | ratrace | verblendet: because <1000 uids are considered system and reserved |
| 17:17.31 | verblendet | ratrace, maybe |
| 17:17.57 | verblendet | my question was: where is sddm.conf in debian 10.6 |
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| 17:18.10 | verblendet | and how to configure sddm to list users below userid 1000 |
| 17:18.14 | verblendet | thank you |
| 17:18.28 | ratrace | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:18.46 | hmuller | ratrace: yes, I get that. I am just curious what/where the logic is that keeps the current and previous kernel present even after autoremove |
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| 17:19.31 | ratrace | hmuller: okay I see what you're asking now |
| 17:19.36 | verblendet | ratrace, you didnt read my question above, i said there is nothing in /etc, got me? |
| 17:19.43 | ratrace | verblendet: so create it, got me? |
| 17:19.54 | ratrace | and now I'm starting to doubt you're even running debian |
| 17:19.56 | ratrace | because: |
| 17:20.04 | ratrace | ,file /etc/init/sddm.conf |
| 17:20.10 | judd | Search for /etc/init/sddm.conf in buster/amd64: sddm: etc/init/sddm.conf |
| 17:20.16 | verblendet | where is the default config then dictating the rules? |
| 17:20.22 | ratrace | whoops! guess you're not running debian after all. |
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| 17:21.04 | Onyx47_ | there's a startup sctipt in /etc/init.d/sddm but I don't see it either, might be that it doesn't get created unless you change the defaults? |
| 17:21.07 | verblendet | there is no /etc/init/sddm.conf, and if debian netboot doesnt install debian.... |
| 17:21.30 | verblendet | i will remove and reinstall completely |
| 17:21.31 | ratrace | verblendet: did you actually install the sddm package? |
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| 17:21.34 | Onyx47_ | the .conf file I mean, it's not there for me either |
| 17:21.52 | verblendet | yes i do and if i do dpkg-reconfigure it let me choose sddm |
| 17:22.09 | ratrace | and did you try creating the file? |
| 17:22.46 | verblendet | no i didnt create the file as i dont know where deboan expects it as default will be /etc/sddm.conmf but you mentioned /etc/init too, thats weird |
| 17:23.02 | towo` | /etc/sddm.conf.d/kde_settings.conf? |
| 17:23.04 | verblendet | and i assumed just changing some config to my needed values, like minimum user id |
| 17:23.28 | ratrace | verblendet: well the package lists it there. try dpkg -L sddm ? |
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| 17:26.37 | verblendet | from debian wiki: "SDDM configuration files can be placed at /usr/lib/sddm/sddm.conf.d or /etc/sddm.conf.d " |
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| 17:28.41 | weaselhtml | Uh, did debian 10.6 start using wayland? |
| 17:28.45 | weaselhtml | I expected xorg |
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| 17:29.02 | jaggz | how do I get the actual name of a source for apt install -t |
| 17:29.23 | ratrace | weaselhtml: default on debian gnome is to use the wayland protocol, but xorg is there, you can select the session on login |
| 17:29.39 | verblendet | ok, created a minimum sddm.conf |
| 17:29.50 | ratrace | note: it's just protocol selection. mutter and kwin are both wayland and xorg compositors. |
| 17:29.57 | weaselhtml | ratrace: I sure hope they don't start adding in netplan |
| 17:30.06 | weaselhtml | If that happens, I'm going to another distro |
| 17:30.16 | ratrace | what has that got to do with wayland? |
| 17:30.28 | jaggz | (I look at its apt/sources.../foo.list and have its URL.. and its hostname.. but that error) |
| 17:30.30 | weaselhtml | Well, I really don't want massive changes to happen to my debian systems |
| 17:30.31 | verblendet | but wth? userids from 500 on are occupied by nobody and systemd crore something? go away devil!!!! ouch, that hurts and breaks good old userlists i used for decades |
| 17:30.32 | jaggz | apt install cuda -t developer.download.nvidia.com |
| 17:30.44 | jaggz | The value 'developer.download.nvidia.com' is invalid for APT::Default-Release as such a release is not available in the sources |
| 17:30.46 | ratrace | wayland is next gen rendering thing and replacement for xorg. netplan is some ubuntu-only NIH nobody else, and many ubuntu users either, cares about. |
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| 17:31.17 | jaggz | verblendet, seriously? like hard-coded assigned and given away? |
| 17:31.20 | ratrace | verblendet: erm.... y u blame systemd? uid<1000 are system and reserved. your fault if you create a conflict |
| 17:31.37 | jaggz | I didn't know <1000 were system/reserved |
| 17:31.41 | ratrace | now you do |
| 17:31.54 | verblendet | grrrml jaggz, systemd-coredump is 999, and nbody abviously 65534, i set maximum userid to 99999 :D oopsi |
| 17:32.04 | jaggz | I do not truly know yet, except my deep faith in you |
| 17:32.20 | verblendet | ratrace, i blame systemd YES, as uid from 500 to 100 was reserved for ME? k? |
| 17:32.39 | verblendet | 1000 i mean ;) |
| 17:33.29 | ratrace | well, you also get to keep the pieces when you break it. |
| 17:34.32 | jaggz | so how do I install cuda? https://i.imgur.com/xpTsHB1.png |
| 17:34.38 | verblendet | where is systemd.conf? to configure uids? |
| 17:34.50 | jaggz | cuda : Depends: cuda-11-1 (>= 11.1.0) but it is not going to be installed |
| 17:35.31 | verblendet | jaggz, using nvidia cards? there are properitary packages i remember, and they are more up to date and stable |
| 17:35.37 | jaggz | "but it is not going to be installed" could be a bit more verbose |
| 17:36.13 | ratrace | verblendet: systemd doesn't define those. |
| 17:37.12 | dob1_ | how can I add an user non-interactively ? |
| 17:37.19 | verblendet | ratrace, and i guess this is done somewheer during initialization and hardcoded - so it is documented somewhere ;) otherwise this rule does not exist |
| 17:37.32 | jaggz | verblendet, actually, thanks for mentioning that. I was using the recent updated official packages from backports, but was trying the toolkit from nvidia, but I just found there are some other new packages available in official which might be what I'm looking for |
| 17:37.34 | ratrace | verblendet: it's defined and documented by login.defs and its manpage |
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| 17:37.55 | verblendet | jaggz, https://docs.nvidia.com/cuda/cuda-installation-guide-linux/index.html ? |
| 17:38.20 | ratrace | min and max uids are very much arbitrary decision. "system" ones are such because of convention and packaging decisions. sure, as oyu can see, you can designate and UID to your user. question is only what are you going to break by going against the convention |
| 17:38.26 | ratrace | verblendet: ^ |
| 17:38.42 | verblendet | ratrace, thx, will have a look, ...sur ei want to avoid conflicts, but also want my userid back ;)) |
| 17:38.47 | ratrace | verblendet: though also, "system" accounts are concept understood by login.defs and useradd |
| 17:38.49 | jaggz | What in the world? A netflix tab, just sitting there for a day, just started playing |
| 17:38.53 | ratrace | but ranges.... are conventional. |
| 17:38.58 | jaggz | someone's hacking my kdeconnect? |
| 17:39.03 | verblendet | ratrace, maybe i am too old, i remember when using uid 500 was still fine |
| 17:39.25 | ratrace | verblendet: I rmember when non-system uids started at 100. |
| 17:39.34 | jaggz | that's very disrespectful, rude, unwanted, and unwarranted. Go away. |
| 17:39.39 | hmuller | see "reserved ranges" at the middle of the page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_identifier |
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| 17:39.45 | ratrace | but uid_min of 1000 has been default in debs for very long time |
| 17:39.50 | verblendet | jaggz, in browser? |
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| 17:40.02 | jaggz | verblendet, kdeconnect lets your media playback stuff be accessed by your mobile |
| 17:40.11 | jaggz | so if you have something playing it can be paused on your mobile |
| 17:40.28 | verblendet | jaggz, i remember, but my kdeconnect is broken since months |
| 17:40.35 | jaggz | sorrow :( |
| 17:40.48 | jaggz | I was using nvidia's installation guide but .. that's where I ran into problems |
| 17:40.59 | jaggz | I believe from a conflict between debian official stuff and the nvidia repo |
| 17:41.18 | jaggz | (and debian knows why "it will not be installed", but for years they've decided not to say WHY it's made that decision not to install it) |
| 17:41.24 | verblendet | still on debian 8 for daily live... i really like to upgrade now, new shony fast computer, but new kde ui kills me |
| 17:41.29 | jaggz | it's just.. y'know.. not going to. |
| 17:41.51 | jaggz | i'm at stable |
| 17:42.14 | jaggz | and it appears they fixed some of the stuff in the nvidia packages during this last update, making it more complete. |
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| 17:43.10 | verblendet | i remember setting up a cuda workstation for gpu computing using debian 10 amd official nvidia without problems last year - all workded fine, but it was sitting in a serverroom and only doing remote stuff and computing, not used as a desktop machine too |
| 17:43.11 | jaggz | !dpkg /usr/local/cuda-11.1/lib64/libcublas.so |
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| 17:45.25 | jaggz | the libcublas.so doesn't match.. grrrr.. |
| 17:45.32 | jaggz | https://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=contents&keywords=libcublas.so&mode=exactfilename&suite=buster&arch=any |
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| 17:47.07 | jaggz | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:48.09 | jaggz | but the new versions are supposed to be at 450.66 |
| 17:48.25 | jaggz | nvidia-driver is: 450.66-1~bpo10+1 100 |
| 17:48.40 | jaggz | scratches his head |
| 17:50.11 | jaggz | Oh. My apologies. apt does tell me the reason for "not going to be installed" is, "you have held broken packages" |
| 17:50.53 | jaggz | dpkg --get-selections | grep hold |
| 17:50.53 | dpkg | selects jaggz's pr0n collection |
| 17:50.55 | jaggz | empty |
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| 17:58.03 | ratrace | debian donates 10k⬠.... wth.... Deb swimming in money now? https://bits.debian.org/2020/10/debian-donation-peertube.html |
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| 17:59.28 | sney | !spi |
| 17:59.28 | dpkg | Software in the Public Interest (SPI) is the umbrella organization for Debian and other Free Software projects. http://www.spi-inc.org/ |
| 17:59.55 | sney | lots of nerds donate to SPI regularly. 10k eur is small potatoes |
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| 18:02.45 | ratrace | sure sure, but it's just weird that Debian, who is in need of money itself, donates elswhere |
| 18:02.53 | ratrace | %s/who/that/ |
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| 18:12.10 | jhutchins | ratrace: Yeah, but it's not really "elsewhere". Peertube will be another reasn to use Debian. |
| 18:12.36 | jhutchins | ratrace: Unlike say Red Hat, Debian doesn't a lot (any?) in-house development. |
| 18:13.29 | jhutchins | ratrace: They fix things, they improve them, but they're not really into raw new-product development. |
| 18:14.25 | jhutchins | ratrace: They rely on third-party projects, so it only makes sense that they would support them. |
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| 18:16.21 | ratrace | I see |
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| 18:31.12 | jhutchins | Hmmm... bet it wouldn't be too hard to set up something that would open a certain set of web sites first thing in the morning, so you get to your computer and it's all there, you don't forget to check the spam filter for three days or miss a rocket launch. |
| 18:31.53 | jhutchins | Speaking of which, Rocket Lab Electron on the 28th. |
| 18:32.16 | ratrace | jhutchins: isn't that default on browsers? continue where you left? |
| 18:33.05 | jhutchins | Sorry, I thought I was in another channel. |
| 18:33.43 | jhutchins | ratrace: The thing is, once I've say checked my spam and the launch schedule, I tend to close the windows. |
| 18:34.09 | jhutchins | I actually think I had something like that set up at ope point. |
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| 18:34.44 | jhutchins | You can launch a browser with a specific URL from cron, so ... |
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| 18:42.35 | debhack | Hi guys! I've been fighting for quite some time now with this stupid problem and I can't really figure out what's going on. I'm experiencing screen tearing (both in my laptop and external monitor, so not hardware related) when I open/close windows. It's weird because it only happens when I use dwm, I tried with XFCE and no problem. I have an integrated intel graphics card (i915 chipset) which is perfectly well supported by the xf86-video-intel module. I |
| 18:42.35 | debhack | have tried with the "TearFree" option, uxa acceleration method and it made no difference. So far I'm surviving by just setting a solid dark wallpaper which matches the background of my terminal (this way the tearing/flickering is not that evident) but I can still see it when I open/close light themed gtk apps. Ant hints on where to look next? Thanks! |
| 18:43.15 | sney | how new is it? some newer intel chips require firmware |
| 18:43.18 | sney | !i915 firmware |
| 18:43.18 | dpkg | Some Intel UHD GPUs made after 2015 require firmware from userspace for all features to be enabled. This includes Skylake, Kabylake, Broxton, Cannonlake and possibly others. Ask me about <non-free sources> and install firmware-misc-nonfree to provide. |
| 18:44.39 | ratrace | debhack: I think it's about compositor (xfce) vs no compositor (dwm) |
| 18:45.18 | sney | I was wondering about that too but I had to look up whether dwm is compositing |
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| 18:45.43 | ratrace | afaik no, you need something like compton |
| 18:46.25 | ratrace | I have the same problem in i3-wm but I'm too lazy to install compton |
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| 18:48.05 | debhack | Ah, I had no idea. It's a Skylake GT2 HD graphics 520, so I may need the non-free drivers... |
| 18:48.18 | debhack | no, dwm does not composite |
| 18:48.36 | debhack | and I'm not using any other compositor |
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| 18:49.00 | debhack | thanks for your fast response ratrace |
| 18:53.48 | debhack | (and dpkg and snay, sorry :) ) |
| 18:54.00 | debhack | sney* |
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| 18:56.30 | ratrace | !botsnack |
| 18:56.31 | dpkg | thanks, ratrace |
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| 18:59.56 | debhack | I'm gonna test it, I'll be back in 5 mins, thanks all! |
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| 19:11.33 | debhack | I installed the firmware-misc-nonfree and it didn't solve the issue... I also tried installing picom (I did not configure it though) but same thing... |
| 19:12.18 | debhack | how did you solve it in your i3 config, ratrace? |
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| 19:21.39 | debhack | I'm messing around with vsync in picom and no difference either... I'm afraid I'm gonna have to stick to the "dark wallpaper" method :S |
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| 19:29.07 | debhack | It looks like I found a solution!! |
| 19:29.44 | debhack | Using picom as a compositor with glx backend and vsync completely gets rid of the annoying tearing! :) :) |
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| 19:30.15 | debhack | (picom --backend glx --vsync; no fancy effects but solves tearing) |
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| 19:36.45 | ratrace | debhack: where'd you get it? |
| 19:37.49 | debhack | picom from the repos (I'm using debian testing), the solution by reading the man and tinkering with options that could be related... |
| 19:38.34 | ratrace | ah k, bullseye |
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| 21:02.52 | leoni | Is there a similar command to aptitude why, that is not aptitude? |
| 21:03.50 | leoni | I have this web browser installed, called hv3, it's extremely outdated and it's not currently in development, yet I think it came with the default installation of the desktop enviroment. Weird? |
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| 21:08.41 | jmcnaught | leoni: "apt rdepends hv3" shows packages that depend on this package, but it seems that none do. |
| 21:08.56 | c-c | leoni: your first q: There is dpkg, which is what aptitude runs. |
| 21:09.44 | c-c | leoni: sometimes dependency updating fails, and the maintainers fail to remove unneccessary libs/deps. |
| 21:09.48 | leoni | I gave up and just installed aptitude... ran the why command, and apparently it's installed because of task-xfce-desktop. |
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| 21:10.25 | jmcnaught | Probably only because the hv3 package provides www-browser. |
| 21:10.34 | leoni | Yes. |
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| 21:10.40 | c-c | leoni: using aptitude - or maybe just apt - is fine, and maybe even intended for most debian users. |
| 21:10.52 | leoni | I like using apt mostly. |
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| 21:12.21 | jmcnaught | "aptitude why â¦" does not necessarily tell you why a package was installed in the first place, it just shows current dependency chains. |
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| 21:13.11 | diginet | I have a weird problem where my external USB drive transfer speeds slow down to like tens of kb/s |
| 21:13.17 | leoni | jmcnaught: I see. |
| 21:13.19 | diginet | I'm using the USB3 port, but that would be slow even for 2 |
| 21:13.25 | diginet | is there any good way to debug this? |
| 21:14.43 | jmcnaught | And it only shows the first dependency chain that it finds. |
| 21:15.01 | c-c | diginet: so what is the operation? |
| 21:15.11 | diginet | c-c: just copying files |
| 21:15.21 | diginet | I've tried in the GUI, using rsync |
| 21:15.25 | diginet | cp |
| 21:15.27 | diginet | etc, etc. |
| 21:16.30 | c-c | diginet: can you monitor the operation in atop? |
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| 21:17.08 | diginet | c-c: how do I do that? |
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| 21:23.05 | c-c | diginet: apt install atop ? Run it, hit "h" for help. |
| 21:23.12 | diginet | ok |
| 21:23.36 | c-c | diginet: look for entries with "DSK" on them. You can see by process whats writing disk, etc. |
| 21:23.46 | diginet | gotcha |
| 21:23.48 | diginet | thanks |
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| 21:30.12 | jhutchins | leoni: If it's Debian, it should have apt-get and apt installed by default. |
| 21:30.29 | diginet | c-c: it seems like it gets to ~500 mb then slows down to a grinding halt |
| 21:30.48 | c-c | diginet: it being the process thats copying files? |
| 21:30.54 | diginet | yes |
| 21:31.05 | diginet | also atop shows "DSK" flashing in red and busy at 96% |
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| 21:35.45 | Eryn_1983_FL | hey guys |
| 21:35.56 | Eryn_1983_FL | whats the name of the home assistant package in debian? |
| 21:36.04 | Eryn_1983_FL | im wanting to control some lights on my server/desktop |
| 21:37.11 | Eryn_1983_FL | maybe i just do the vm |
| 21:37.14 | diginet | c-c: it just weirdly seems to get "stuck" at certain points |
| 21:37.21 | diginet | the external HD is almost empty too |
| 21:40.16 | c-c | diginet: well I looked at my system and the super fast nvm ssd seems to get ~100% use with only system services running. Not sure how to interpret that. Also tested installing iotop and $ iotop -oPa - similar result, but can tell the written size is small. Keep digging. |
| 21:40.52 | diginet | it's been stuck at the same position for 10 min now |
| 21:40.55 | diginet | I don't get this |
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| 21:41.05 | diginet | what does iotop do? |
| 21:41.53 | nkuttler | diginet: monitor disk usage |
| 21:42.11 | sney | if you're having bad i/o performance on a disk and you can't find a software explanation, it's likely that the disk itself is failing |
| 21:42.29 | diginet | I see :( |
| 21:42.32 | sney | SMART data is often not readable via USB so this could have been a long time coming |
| 21:42.53 | sney | (or if it's new, a factory defect) |
| 21:43.05 | diginet | maybe I need to buy a new external hdd |
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| 21:48.02 | genr8_ | externals are built with planned obsolescence in mind |
| 21:48.48 | genr8_ | they have 0 incentive to make them last longer than the warranty, and theyve gotten good at ensuring that happens |
| 21:48.55 | genr8_ | doesnt* |
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| 21:53.37 | sney | most of the ones I've seen are just a regular laptop disk in a plastic box. but spinning disks seem to survive a little better when they're not constantly being moved around. |
| 21:53.54 | diginet | is there a way to convert a fat partition to ext4 without deleting data? |
| 21:53.59 | sney | nope |
| 21:54.27 | enocoffee | had a few enclosures fail while the drives were stil fine |
| 21:55.00 | sney | that can happen too. |
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| 21:57.43 | genr8_ | they do a lot better when shucked thats for sure too |
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| 21:59.07 | genr8_ | probably 3+ factors going on. majority 2.5" (laptop), whole lotta physical movement while still powered on, somethin with the USB interface makes it not hold up (possibly active power management) |
| 22:00.06 | Mat63 | Hi |
| 22:00.11 | genr8_ | i run all my drives 24/7 spun up. all the spindowns and head parking load unload cycles put more wear on it than just 24/7 idling |
| 22:00.11 | nyany | Hello Mat63 |
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| 22:01.25 | Mat63 | Create a bootable USB with Debian and when I start it from the usb there is command line |
| 22:01.42 | sney | which image did you use? |
| 22:02.02 | genr8_ | you have to either select "Graphical Installer" when you boot, or use the Live image which is different |
| 22:02.04 | Mat63 | I want to see how it works before installing it on the magnetic disk |
| 22:02.35 | Mat63 | Now I tell you a moment please |
| 22:03.00 | Mat63 | debian-live-10.6.0-amd64-standard.iso |
| 22:03.09 | sney | standard doesn't have a gui |
| 22:03.16 | Mat63 | AAAAAAa |
| 22:03.19 | Mat63 | lol |
| 22:03.26 | nyany | https://www.debian.org/CD/live/ |
| 22:03.28 | nyany | You want one of these. |
| 22:03.35 | Mat63 | I already realized that |
| 22:03.37 | genr8_ | yeah its a bit misleading |
| 22:03.41 | Mat63 | lol |
| 22:03.43 | Mat63 | yes |
| 22:03.52 | nyany | Ah. At least we learn :D |
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| 22:05.31 | Mat63 | It is good, but for now I need with GUI |
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| 22:06.08 | sney | so pick one of the others. xfce, kde, gnome, etc |
| 22:06.15 | Mat63 | Could you point out the exact link |
| 22:06.48 | jhutchins | Mat63: You can install without a GUI and then add one (or more). |
| 22:07.03 | sney | from here, https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/ only "standard" has no gui. the rest all have different environments, it's up to you to choose. |
| 22:07.06 | nyany | If you want something that "just works" check out https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/amd64/bt-hybrid/ - |
| 22:07.10 | sney | jhutchins: they said they want a test drive |
| 22:07.20 | Mat63 | Something simpler, something ready to try |
| 22:07.36 | jhutchins | sney: Ah, so they did, yes that'd be a live or hybrid. |
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| 22:09.04 | jhutchins | Mat63: It takes some extra work, but you might want to download more than one and try the different desktops. There's more difference between desktops than there is between distros. |
| 22:09.15 | Mat63 | What would be the iso with a lighter desktop environment? |
| 22:09.32 | sney | for "lighter" you'd want xfce, lxqt, or lxde. |
| 22:09.48 | jhutchins | sney: Are those all available live? |
| 22:10.13 | sney | jhutchins: yep, see https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/ |
| 22:11.00 | jhutchins | ow, more than I expected. |
| 22:12.52 | sney | there are also +nonfree live images for hardware that needs firmware, like wifi or at least 50% of modern video cards. https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/10.6.0-live+nonfree/amd64/iso-hybrid/ |
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| 22:18.07 | Mat63 | What hardware needs firmware and how do you know if it is yes or no? |
| 22:18.53 | Mat63 | Depends on the manufacturer? |
| 22:19.13 | sney | it's typically only wifi or video. yes, depends on the manufacturer, and also the age |
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| 22:20.54 | sney | it's a safe assumption that any wifi adapter in a computer made after ~2014 needs firmware to work. video is a little more forgiving, most adapters will be ok without the firmware, they just need it to enable optional features |
| 22:21.23 | Mat63 | ok |
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| 22:30.40 | Mat63 | For example, a network card, ATM, and one for Ethernet, would use a different firmware because its operation requires it and does not mean that because they are related to the operation of data transmission, in a different way, any firmware can interact with it. operating system |
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| 22:32.19 | sney | wifi firmware is typically for controlling radio frequencies. for whatever reason, the hardware mfgs decided this should be secret, even in an open source driver. |
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| 22:35.07 | genr8_ | suspicious. |
| 22:35.20 | sney | indeed |
| 22:35.47 | sney | particularly because OpenHAL existed and nobody had problems with that |
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| 23:18.26 | fergal32 | waves hello |
| 23:19.14 | wyoung | \o |
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| 23:22.18 | yanmaani | Hi! Have you received any DMCA takedown notices in respect of youtube-dl? |
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| 23:50.45 | c-c | yanmaani: why would that happen? Debian project does not host copyrighted media content, afaics. |
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| 23:51.52 | yanmaani | c-c: youtube-dl is DMAC now |
| 23:52.52 | c-c | yanmaani: nope, you have some detail incorrect |
| 23:54.57 | c-c | DMCA relates to copyrighted content, and is a request on part of a copyright holder to remove access to copyrighted content. |
| 23:55.22 | yanmaani | c-c: https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/master/2020/10/2020-10-23-RIAA.md |
| 23:55.36 | yanmaani | https://github.com/ytdl-org/youtube-dl |
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| 23:58.35 | c-c | yanmaani: It is a lame display of abuse of DMCA on part of RIAA, and display of failure on part of GitHub to understand difference between hosting copyrighted content, and open source project, that some 3rd parties may use to procure copyrighted content. |
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| 23:59.04 | c-c | In other words, its a demonstration of the failure of the lawmakers of USA. |
| 23:59.37 | c-c | - They should not be able to abuse DMCA to attack open source projects (that contain no copyrighted 2nd party content). |
