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| 00:10.22 | trysten | what's the next logical step from: https://people.freedesktop.org/~whot/libinput-rtd/tapping.html#tapping-default to enable tapping on debian? I'm in XFCE and can't figure out how to enable it. |
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| 00:27.05 | trysten | Ok, I found the wiki page. But it gives incorrect instructions: to modify /usr! We need to fix that |
| 00:27.15 | trysten | The proper thing is to copy the file to /etc right? |
| 00:29.08 | sney | generally, though hard to say without knowing exactly what you're talking about |
| 00:29.38 | sney | if you're modifying an xorg.conf snippet then yes, it should go in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ |
| 00:30.12 | trysten | Ok https://wiki.debian.org/LibinputTouchpad |
| 00:32.49 | sney | there, is that better? |
| 00:33.16 | themill | still just uses synaptics |
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| 00:43.58 | Wh0amI_ | ola rapaziada |
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| 00:55.52 | Paerox | I started rsyslogd with the "-n" option (run rsyslog interactively), now my shell is captured and I cannot end it with Ctrl+C. What can I do to regain control of my shell? |
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| 01:14.48 | trysten | sney: did you edit it? I could not create account. |
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| 01:16.50 | n4dir | Paerox: you could try to pkill it from a different terminal-emulator tab, a TTY, a command prompt |
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| 01:18.15 | Wafficus | Hi there, if I wanted to contribute a package for the Debian build of w3m, how would I go about doing so? |
| 01:18.28 | Wafficus | I ask because the project is primarily based in C, but my additional plugin would be based in Python 3 |
| 01:18.50 | Wafficus | I ask here, because I know that the biggest w3m fork is on Debian, so I was curious how the process of package submission occurs |
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| 01:21.36 | themill | Wafficus: packages aren't submitted. Development of new things should really happen in collaboration with the upstream developers. |
| 01:21.57 | trysten | Wafficus: https://wiki.debian.org/Packaging I think you need a somewhat stable software "product" before the admins would consider packaging |
| 01:22.28 | trysten | themill: is that really so incorrect? Maintainers don't "submit" packages to testing? |
| 01:22.36 | trysten | Sorry if that is stupid quesiton. |
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| 01:23.12 | themill | random people don't submit packages. Maintainers who have permission to do so upload packages to unstable. |
| 01:24.35 | Wafficus | I see, so splitting off to my own Git instance it is then ;P |
| 01:24.45 | Wafficus | nah, but really, its just a plugin |
| 01:24.50 | Wafficus | so I don't see any harm in it |
| 01:25.14 | themill | Wafficus: if it can be packaged separately without need for the w3m source then that's a different thing |
| 01:25.47 | Wafficus | yeah you don't need w3m itself |
| 01:25.54 | themill | !nmg |
| 01:25.54 | Wafficus | its more like a utility for the "bookmarks.html" file |
| 01:25.54 | dpkg | The packaging tutorial (https://deb.li/QYyI) and the New Maintainer's Guide (https://deb.li/3DiDA) are good places to start learning about Debian packaging. You should also ask me about <devref> and <policy> to understand how packages should be maintained and how they should interact with each other. Ask me about <package basics>, <mentors>, <best practices> <build without helper>. https://www.debian.org/devel/ |
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| 01:26.24 | Wafficus | so in theory, I would have to join the Debian team, and become a package maintainer even for my own small project? |
| 01:27.05 | themill | The chances of anyone doing it for you are approximately zero. You can submit an RFP but Debian is mostly made up of people scratching their own itches. |
| 01:27.09 | themill | !rfp |
| 01:27.09 | dpkg | Request For Package (RFP) is the way to ask for a piece of software to be included in Debian. See http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp, the section on that page "Adding new entries with "reportbug"" is a good place to start. Technically, a RFP is a wishlist bug filed against "wnpp" with a title beginning "RFP: ", ask me about <wnpp>. The best way of getting software packaged is to do it yourself: ask me about <nmg>. |
| 01:27.24 | Paerox | n4dir, I killed it in htop from another tmux pane :-) |
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| 01:28.56 | n4dir | you learn a new thing every day. I always thought htop is only to "view" stuff. |
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| 01:30.11 | Paerox | n4dir, Glances is good if you only want to view stuff :-) |
| 01:30.26 | Paerox | *glances |
| 01:30.37 | Paerox | !glances |
| 01:30.37 | n4dir | thanks for that too. Never heard of it |
| 01:31.00 | Paerox | oh, it seems dpkg doesnt pick up on my "glances" keyword? |
| 01:31.15 | n4dir | works here. Weird |
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| 01:32.37 | Paerox | Glances is quite powerful, it can export data to a InfluxDB server for time series data, it even has a built in web server |
| 01:32.45 | n4dir | Paerox: nice. Thanks. |
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| 01:36.49 | H-var | that hamster spinning on the mannequin vinyl record is the cutest thing I've seen in the world |
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| 02:42.33 | alexrelis[m] | Is there a way to safely view the contents of a flash drive without it running anything maliciously? |
| 02:43.37 | H-var | yes |
| 02:43.48 | sponix | alexrelis[m]: most Linux by default will "mount" media, but I don't recall any of them running anything automatically |
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| 02:48.13 | Paerox | alexrelis[m], Yes, is is possible to mount media read only. Use the -r or -o option for mount as root |
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| 02:58.57 | Paerox | dont forget to umount before you yank out the usb stick |
| 03:01.10 | ratrace | technically, no, there used to be a vuln in I think ext4 where a maliciously crafted fs would run arbitrary code in the kernel. so no, you can't absolutely trust the mount action |
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| 03:13.27 | Paerox | ratrace, Did not know that! |
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| 03:47.33 | jadax | hi, I'm trying to run iodined (iodine server) on debian 9 and I get: iodined: open_tun: /dev/net/tun: No such file or directory: No such file or directory |
| 03:47.39 | jadax | does anybody know what's going on? |
| 03:48.16 | jadax | I have module 'tun' loaded if that matters |
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| 05:35.34 | roycroft | hello, folks |
| 05:35.46 | Paerox | hello roycroft :-) |
| 05:35.48 | budlight | hi |
| 05:35.50 | roycroft | i am working on a laptop that i just picked up |
| 05:35.57 | roycroft | it has windows 10 on it |
| 05:36.03 | roycroft | and i need to preserve that install |
| 05:36.13 | roycroft | but i'll primarily run debian on it |
| 05:36.24 | roycroft | i've done dual boot installs before, but only on legacy bios machines |
| 05:36.44 | roycroft | i read the debian wiki regarding dual boot and uefi, and it seemed pretty straightforward |
| 05:37.12 | roycroft | i was able to install debian on the machine, however when it got to installing grub it did not stop and give me any choices like it usually does |
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| 05:37.36 | roycroft | it just did what it wanted and moved on |
| 05:37.52 | roycroft | i don't know a lot about uefi, but i thought that seemed normal |
| 05:38.04 | roycroft | and that i'd be able to select the os i want to boot from the boot menu |
| 05:38.35 | roycroft | however, when i rebooted, and brought up the uefi boot manager, the windows 10 boot manager was the only option |
| 05:38.39 | roycroft | and it only boots windows 10 |
| 05:38.47 | roycroft | any ideas what i'm missing here? |
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| 05:44.00 | Paerox | roycroft, Have you had a look in the boot options in the EFI firmware on the laptop. Perhaps the new Debian install shows up there? |
| 05:46.30 | trysten | jadax: um, does /dev/net/tun exist? |
| 05:48.33 | roycroft | no, i can give that a go |
| 05:49.40 | roycroft | it doesn't show up in boot options |
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| 05:49.56 | roycroft | and i have disabled secure boot, even though debian 10 is signed |
| 05:50.11 | roycroft | i thought i'd eliminate any possibility of an issue there |
| 05:52.14 | Paerox | In that case, I think you might be missing a seperate boot partion. Did you create one during installation? |
| 05:53.55 | roycroft | i'm fairly certain i did |
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| 05:54.27 | roycroft | i usually do installs by scribbling over the entire disk |
| 05:54.47 | roycroft | but since i needed to preserve the windows stuff i told the installer to use the largest free partition |
| 05:54.55 | Paerox | Oh, okey. Were you given the option to force install grub on to efi (cant remember exactly what the dialog box says) |
| 05:54.57 | roycroft | and i believe it created /boot, /, and swap |
| 05:55.03 | roycroft | no, that's the thing |
| 05:55.13 | roycroft | the grub installer just did an auto-pilot thing |
| 05:55.19 | roycroft | and did not stop to give me any options |
| 05:55.21 | Paerox | oh i see |
| 05:55.59 | Paerox | Then I think you have to fire up the installer again and have a look throught the more advanced/expert options |
| 05:56.21 | Paerox | I usually install debian in text/expert-mode |
| 05:56.58 | Paerox | The installer should give you the option to re-install grub in expert mode, if i remember correctly |
| 05:57.39 | Paerox | But, before you continue, It could be a good idea to back up your laptop with clonezilla |
| 05:57.51 | Paerox | Just in case you mess something up |
| 05:58.02 | roycroft | i was waiting for the installer to pause and ask me how to deal with grub, but it did not |
| 05:58.14 | roycroft | i used the windows backup utility to back up that part |
| 05:58.17 | Paerox | and, don't forget to test the backup by restoring before proceeding |
| 05:58.35 | roycroft | and booted off the backup disk and got to the part where it wanted to restore the os |
| 05:58.41 | roycroft | so i'm fairly confident that it will work |
| 05:59.04 | roycroft | i just got this laptop |
| 05:59.12 | roycroft | so it's a fresh windows install |
| 05:59.21 | roycroft | but i'd still rather preserve it than reinstall it |
| 05:59.30 | Paerox | Ah, so no valuable user data or apps to preseve then? |
| 05:59.41 | roycroft | correct |
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| 06:00.27 | Paerox | But, you need to preserve Windows 10. What if you loose that? Clonezilla might save you some pain |
| 06:00.53 | roycroft | windows has a built in utility to create a restoration disk |
| 06:00.58 | roycroft | and i ran that |
| 06:01.07 | roycroft | i created one on an external usb drive |
| 06:01.20 | roycroft | and i booted off that drive to see if it worked |
| 06:01.50 | Paerox | Oh, okey. I'm just nagging about Clonezilla, because I haven't used Windows 10 much |
| 06:01.55 | roycroft | i selected the restore option, and proceeded to the point where it was going to reformat the internal drive |
| 06:02.07 | roycroft | i'm not 100% certain it will work |
| 06:02.15 | Paerox | alright then :-) |
| 06:02.17 | roycroft | but i'm confident enough that i'm ok with what i have |
| 06:02.31 | roycroft | especially since there's no chance of data loss |
| 06:02.37 | roycroft | since there are no data on the machine |
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| 06:02.52 | Paerox | Then forget about clonezilla. Just fire up the debian installer again and have at the expert options |
| 06:02.52 | roycroft | and i can run the debian installer again |
| 06:02.56 | roycroft | ok |
| 06:03.04 | roycroft | i'll give that another go |
| 06:03.27 | roycroft | it's painful because i have to type in my wpa2 key manually in order to do the install |
| 06:03.43 | roycroft | so i hope i don't have to do it too many times before i get it right :) |
| 06:04.15 | roycroft | this laptop is an acer aspire, with a lot of weird hardware |
| 06:04.27 | roycroft | the windows install needed a bunch of special drivers |
| 06:04.32 | roycroft | as did the debian install |
| 06:04.37 | roycroft | fortunately i found all that stuff |
| 06:06.09 | Paerox | You have no chance of hooking up the laptop via wired ethernet? |
| 06:07.27 | Paerox | roycroft, I found this: https://debian.wayoflinux.com/installing/post-install/fix-common-issues/reinstall-grub |
| 06:07.51 | Paerox | It's for Debian 9, fairly recent, should work |
| 06:09.30 | Paerox | Do you already know which partition is the /boot one? |
| 06:11.48 | roycroft | i'm already installing |
| 06:12.01 | roycroft | but i'll note that url in case of issues this time |
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| 06:21.38 | roycroft | so it did not creae a /boot partition before |
| 06:21.58 | Paerox | Aha! There's your problem then :-) |
| 06:22.03 | roycroft | i wonder if i should do that in windoww |
| 06:22.12 | roycroft | i don't see how to do it with the linux installer |
| 06:23.05 | roycroft | i had a 155GB partition free for this |
| 06:23.28 | roycroft | when i did the install the first time it created a 148GB xfs partition and an 8GB swap partition |
| 06:24.00 | roycroft | i need /boot, /, and swap for this |
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| 06:25.40 | Paerox | xfs?? How did you arrive at that desicion? I thought btrfs was *the* fs |
| 06:27.05 | roycroft | i always use xfs |
| 06:27.10 | roycroft | i'm an old bsd guy |
| 06:27.31 | roycroft | xfs is like an old friend |
| 06:27.35 | roycroft | and it serves me well |
| 06:28.14 | roycroft | xfsdump and xfsrestore work almost identically to dump/restore |
| 06:28.15 | Paerox | Oh, I know nothing about xfs. Recently learned about btrfs and it's features. Thought it might serve you better than ext4 for example |
| 06:28.37 | roycroft | so i was able to delete those partitions |
| 06:28.47 | Paerox | Kool |
| 06:28.48 | roycroft | and then i told it to go ahead and create what it wants |
| 06:28.53 | roycroft | and it created a / and a swap |
| 06:28.54 | roycroft | but no /boot |
| 06:28.59 | *** part/#debian diogenes_ (~diogenes_@188.208.121.8) |
| 06:29.12 | roycroft | i can do that manually, i suppose |
| 06:29.36 | Paerox | This time you should probably create a FAT32 partition of, say, 512MB and use that as /boot |
| 06:30.24 | Paerox | My Debian server has a 512mb boot partition, only 8% is used |
| 06:32.42 | roycroft | i just created a 256MB /boot |
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| 06:33.36 | Paerox | nice. I presume you set the boot partition flag as well |
| 06:33.41 | roycroft | yes |
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| 06:35.14 | Paerox | I usually set the nodiratime and noatime flags as well on SSD-partitions to reduce write wear. Not sure if that is necessary with xfs though |
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| 06:41.54 | roycroft | fat32 is not an option for /boot, btw |
| 06:42.01 | roycroft | debian requires a unix filesystem for /boot |
| 06:42.26 | Paerox | then, forgive me for my incorrect memory :-) |
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| 06:42.39 | roycroft | i use ext4 for /boot |
| 06:42.47 | roycroft | because i know it works |
| 06:42.53 | roycroft | other filesystems can be iffy |
| 06:43.26 | Paerox | I thought you would need to create a fat32 partition because of the Windows boot manager |
| 06:43.50 | Paerox | but, alas, i learn every day here on #debian! :D |
| 06:44.16 | Paerox | So, now you're able to boot Debian? |
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| 06:44.35 | roycroft | i'll know in a bit |
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| 06:44.47 | roycroft | aptitude is installing packages right now |
| 06:44.51 | roycroft | so grub will be next |
| 06:45.07 | roycroft | and that will be my clue as to whether it's likely going to work or not |
| 06:45.21 | Paerox | Nice! I'm looking forward to hear if it works |
| 06:45.40 | roycroft | i'll know within five minutes |
| 06:45.44 | roycroft | probably less |
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| 06:55.46 | roycroft | fail |
| 06:56.07 | roycroft | it still boots windows though |
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| 06:56.23 | Paerox | :-/ |
| 06:56.26 | roycroft | and there are other grub option, so there is still hope |
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| 07:05.32 | quadrathoch2 | Paerox, pretty sure you meant /boot/efi which needs to be fat (because ms) |
| 07:05.58 | Paerox | quadrathoch2, yeah, that sounds right |
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| 09:10.35 | Druid | hello i have funny question. |
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| 09:10.55 | Druid | what if toy story franchise ends and we don't have enough characters to name versions. |
| 09:11.14 | Druid | name the releases* rather. |
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| 09:12.37 | Paerox | hmm... switch over to names from other Pixar movies perhaps? :-) |
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| 09:15.04 | Druid | Paerox: i vote for finding nemo |
| 09:16.00 | Paerox | One of my absolute favorites. Good choice too, as it has many characters :-) |
| 09:17.08 | Druid | u got good taste Paerox, let us not distrupt the joins and parts now. good night :D |
| 09:17.32 | Paerox | Good night, Druid :-) |
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| 09:31.04 | genr8_ | Today, Microsoft. tomorrow, Linux is next: https://www.microsoft.com/security/blog/2020/11/17/meet-the-microsoft-pluton-processor-the-security-chip-designed-for-the-future-of-windows-pcs/ |
| 09:31.34 | Paerox | *clicks link* |
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| 09:37.28 | Paerox | Hmm... This article makes me want a want an ARM based workstation even more in the future |
| 09:37.56 | Paerox | Fingers crossed something similar will come to Linux |
| 09:38.13 | EdePopede | "windows" pc |
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| 09:39.08 | Paerox | genr8_, Pardon me, the Linux tomorrow reference eludes me |
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| 09:39.21 | Paerox | Care to elaborate a bit? |
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| 09:40.37 | genr8_ | we're always last but never forgotten |
| 09:40.58 | genr8_ | Apple has done this already |
| 09:41.22 | EdePopede | RansomEXX |
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| 09:43.34 | genr8_ | i missed that one. |
| 09:43.40 | oiaohm | genr8_: thing called trenchboot that is very much same kinds of idea of pluton appeared on Linux first. |
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| 09:44.22 | oiaohm | genr8_: https://github.com/TrenchBoot/documentation/blob/master/documentation/Architecture.md |
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| 09:46.31 | genr8_ | i missed this too |
| 09:48.56 | genr8_ | so then great, we already have a implementation that uses existing tech, we dont need to redesign to add entire new security black box |
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| 09:50.48 | genr8_ | seems somewhat abandoned |
| 09:53.28 | genr8_ | unfortunate name too :P reminds me of a disease trench foot |
| 09:54.47 | genr8_ | well, given that microsoft announcement, i expect development to ramp up fast. https://groups.google.com/g/trenchboot-devel |
| 09:56.25 | genr8_ | November 13th. from oracle. " This is next attempt to create firmware and bootloader log specification. Due to high interest among industry ......" |
| 09:57.06 | EdePopede | GRU's Frovorub seems to work similar to the old $ trick on windows BMG used to install malware with their media player. loads a kernel module which hides its own processes, files, I/O. |
| 09:57.44 | genr8_ | i missed that too |
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| 10:00.00 | EdePopede | so did i, maybe my search request was a bit too generic. you may safely ignore everything but the links in the article: https://heise.de/-4871143 |
| 10:00.45 | genr8_ | I have way more confidence in the Trenchboot thing after finding that its tied to Grub/Coreboot dev https://twitter.com/3mdeb_com/status/1327278804100931587 |
| 10:00.52 | EdePopede | and for the old story https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal |
| 10:01.13 | genr8_ | oh that |
| 10:01.35 | EdePopede | definitely. M$ has a long history of playint unfair and lying. |
| 10:01.40 | EdePopede | * playing |
| 10:02.29 | Onyx47 | Ok, so this is weird... I have several machines with HP P1102 printers attached. They require foo2zjs driver to work but I can add them into CUPS and they are fine. |
| 10:03.24 | Onyx47 | the problem is: they get added to CUPS with the standard usb://HP...?serial=XXXXXXXXX URI. but the freaking serial CHANGES sometimes (don't ask me how or why, makes no sense to me either) |
| 10:03.45 | Onyx47 | anyone know if there's an alternative URI I can use or something? |
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| 10:04.15 | Onyx47 | (I could also bruteforce it using udev and re-adding the printer after attach, but ugh) |
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| 10:37.05 | ratrace | EdePopede: But nao they're playing unfair and lying from _within_ our kernel! |
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| 11:13.54 | Paerox | Where can I read up on Wayland? I want to learn whether or when it is ready for widespread adoption. |
| 11:15.28 | alex11 | i think drew devault has a book on it |
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| 11:18.03 | alex11 | Paerox, https://wayland-book.com/ |
| 11:18.46 | ratrace | well, that book is not gonna answer those questions. |
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| 11:19.49 | ratrace | best you can do, imho, is peruse bugzillas of distros that default to it, like Debian and Fedorah, see what problems other people are having, and then just TIAS. you don't have to fiddle with anything to use a wayland compositor, just install gnome or KDe, select wayland session on login (assuming your gpu allows it) |
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| 11:21.12 | ratrace | and dont' forget, wayland is a protocol, not a program in itself. programs like gnome's mutter or kde's kwin, or sway (i3-wm fork for wayland) ARE wayland compositors, so they can work both with its and xorg APIs (xcept sway, that's just wayland api compositor) |
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| 11:21.52 | ratrace | (so your question should rather be, what's the state of _individual_ compositors with regards to support of wayland APIs) |
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| 11:25.13 | jelly | does kde (ok, plasma) run on wayland in buster? |
| 11:25.31 | jelly | or in bullseye? |
| 11:25.42 | Paerox | Thanks for the link alex11 :-) |
| 11:26.38 | ratrace | jelly: I don't know if it's default but it _should_ be able to, kwin is a fully working wayland compositor |
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| 11:26.49 | Paerox | *clicks link* |
| 11:27.11 | Paerox | Ohh. I was thinking more in the lines of a news resource |
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| 11:27.43 | alex11 | then find the wayland developers and keep up with them |
| 11:27.50 | alex11 | whether they're on github or whatever |
| 11:28.27 | alex11 | also note debian is always delayed so you won't get the absolute state of the art until around the time stable releases |
| 11:29.15 | jelly | alex11: you won't ever get absolute latest with debian |
| 11:29.25 | jelly | EVER :-D |
| 11:29.31 | alex11 | that's what i just said |
| 11:29.50 | ratrace | no, you misworded it, but we get the gist of what you probably _meant_ :) |
| 11:29.52 | jelly | stable has like 3-6 months freeze period |
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| 11:30.18 | ratrace | you meant what's state of the art _today_ will be available, maybe, around the time of _next_ stable release |
| 11:30.19 | alex11 | in buster for example i hear some stuff doesn't work with wayland so it's kind of... A Process if you want to use wayland on debian |
| 11:30.43 | ratrace | "use wayland on debian" makes zero sense |
| 11:30.50 | jelly | guess it's time to try bullseye on a less important machine, anyway |
| 11:30.56 | ratrace | wayland is a protocol. different compositors have different levels of API compatibility |
| 11:31.03 | jelly | ratrace: as much as "use X on debian" |
| 11:31.09 | alex11 | forcing it on people with gnome as the default was i think not the best decision but hey i'm not a dev |
| 11:31.11 | ratrace | what does make sense is "use <particular wayland compositor> on debian" |
| 11:31.30 | ratrace | jelly: if by X you mean X11, yes. |
| 11:31.42 | jelly | uses X on Debian |
| 11:32.32 | ratrace | I can agree on wayland being default, is not a wise choice, _yet_ . it's one thing for advanced users to understand that and know they can and do switch to x11 session. but new users won't. |
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| 11:39.18 | Deyaa | I wanna extract all rar files inside the directory tree to a path similar to .rar filename |
| 11:39.30 | Deyaa | Can anyone one help me please?? |
| 11:41.04 | epitamizor | unrar something.rar |
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| 11:44.57 | Deyaa | epitamizor: I want to extract every .rar file in the directory |
| 11:47.14 | epitamizor | for f in $(find / -type f -name "*.rar");do unrar $f;done |
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| 11:49.05 | Deyaa | Thanks buddy epitamizor |
| 11:49.30 | avu | at the very least, this will break on filenames with spaces in them |
| 11:50.02 | Deyaa | How to solve that problem?? |
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| 11:52.08 | dab21 | Use -print0 with find and pipe to xargs with the -0 flag. |
| 11:53.34 | ratrace | and -n1 as unrar takes only one file in arguments iirc |
| 11:53.46 | ratrace | and I think you need 'e' option for unrar as well |
| 11:54.15 | dab21 | e.g. something like find . -type f -name \*.ear -print0 | xargs -0 -L 1 unrar x |
| 11:54.34 | dab21 | Argh... \*.rar, not ear. |
| 11:54.58 | ratrace | like.... (and no for needed) find ./ -type f -name '*.rar' -print0 | xargs -n1 -0 unrar e |
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| 11:55.10 | ratrace | highfives dab21 |
| 11:57.01 | lupulo | rar was non-free :'( |
| 11:57.19 | epitamizor | and still is |
| 11:57.32 | Deyaa | The files just mixed in the base dir holy shit |
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| 12:04.09 | EdePopede | a bit of shell magic maybe, remove the .rar extension from the archive name and create a destination directory and unpack into it. pretty sure it's bashism, sth like ${f%.*} |
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| 12:05.03 | ratrace | S |
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| 12:05.17 | ratrace | Deyaa: use the l option to list the archive and see its structure before you unpack |
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| 12:14.53 | smtx | Greetings wizards |
| 12:15.24 | smtx | I am a littlebit frustrated after trying so many things and googling I thought it might be a good idea to come back here to ask you for some hints for solving my problem. |
| 12:15.34 | smtx | I have a debian installation and set it to runlevel multiuser.target |
| 12:15.49 | smtx | and my keyboard-layout stays english even if I changed it everywhere to be german. |
| 12:16.51 | ratrace | smtx: I think you need the console-setup package (which should be installed by default) and alter things in /etc/default/console-setup |
| 12:16.51 | smtx | https://pastebin.com/mt8RwU2h |
| 12:16.54 | smtx | there you see the config |
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| 12:17.21 | smtx | ratrace: I alrleady have installed the console-setup package and tried that as well let me paste its config as well |
| 12:17.34 | jelly | ,i rar |
| 12:17.36 | judd | Package rar (non-free/utils, optional) in buster/amd64: Archiver for .rar files. Version: 2:5.5.0-1; Size: 289.9k; Installed: 780k; Homepage: http://www.rarlabs.com/ |
| 12:17.39 | smtx | https://pastebin.com/mLBjA3GW |
| 12:17.39 | ratrace | oh right, default/keyboard, not default/console-setup ... but that package is needed iirc |
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| 12:18.02 | Paerox | smtx, how about you run dpkg-reconfigure console-setup ? |
| 12:18.08 | smtx | allready did that as well |
| 12:18.14 | Paerox | oh.. |
| 12:18.25 | smtx | I am not 100% sure but I think it is because of the runlevel that some of the daemons are not started yet that are responsible for loading the right keyboard-layout |
| 12:18.47 | ratrace | (pleaes don't call it runlevel :) it's a target ) |
| 12:18.51 | smtx | I might either have to put some weird options into the grub-line or maybe I overlooked some config |
| 12:19.01 | smtx | hahah sorry that term sticked to my mind since I learned it that way :D |
| 12:19.10 | ratrace | smtx: oh, tried to update initramfs? |
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| 12:20.02 | ratrace | the keyboard definition goes all the way back to initramfs, so changing it might require update-initramfs -u |
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| 12:23.04 | smtx | hmmm I feel my noobness... let me do some googling :D |
| 12:23.08 | smtx | thanks for helping me out |
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| 12:24.18 | Deyaa | I did it |
| 12:24.30 | Deyaa | Thanks guys <3 |
| 12:26.41 | smtx | installed setup-console and did initramfs -u |
| 12:26.42 | smtx | rebootet |
| 12:26.44 | Deyaa | So what xargs exactly do ?? |
| 12:26.49 | smtx | seems to work... no more madness when entering my passwords |
| 12:26.56 | smtx | thanks ratrace <3 |
| 12:27.27 | smtx | Deyaa xargs runs a command and takes the input from the command you specify as input |
| 12:27.38 | smtx | it is basicially a bit like a for/while-loop in programming |
| 12:27.56 | smtx | and you can specify to run things in multiple processes in parallel iirc |
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| 12:29.06 | Deyaa | Now I'm seeing xargs: unrar exited with status 255 |
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| 12:30.40 | jelly | Deyaa: what does your command line look like now? |
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| 12:32.16 | Deyaa | Find ./ -type f -name "*.rar" -print0 | xargs -0 -L 1 unrar x -y |
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| 12:34.13 | jelly | Deyaa: put an "echo" right before unrar, to see which commands xargs actually calls |
| 12:34.42 | jelly | then figure out whether the syntax is correct |
| 12:35.10 | Deyaa | Ok |
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| 12:35.22 | smtx | yeah the echo-trick helps a lot in debugging |
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| 12:44.55 | bitdefect | Hi there, anyone here who is running Debian on PC Engines APU hardware? |
| 12:45.54 | Lope | I've been trying to copy a 3.5G file from a debian buster system to a debian-next system over gigabit ethernet. I tried with rsync, the transfer failed multiple times with rsync: [sender] write error: Broken pipe (32) \n rsync error: unexplained error (code 255) at io.c(829) [sender=3.1.3] \n |
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| 12:46.32 | epitamizor | sounds like permission issue |
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| 12:46.56 | Lope | Then I tried doing a simple cp via sshfs, which also failed after a while |
| 12:46.57 | Lope | cp: error writing '/foo.iso': Software caused connection abort \n cp: failed to close '/foo.iso': Transport endpoint is not connected |
| 12:47.12 | Lope | It's not a permissions issue, I know how to use Linux :P |
| 12:47.34 | jelly | Lope: is there enough space on the destination? |
| 12:47.59 | Lope | then I did rsync with --partial and it resumed like 28%, then completed without error. |
| 12:48.07 | jelly | Lope: can you show whole command line and output of a rsync run? |
| 12:49.02 | jelly | Lope: likely reason is some sort of resource issue on the destination |
| 12:49.21 | bitdefect | Lope: Have you tried --debug? |
| 12:49.22 | Lope | jelly: just a very simple rsync -aA --info=progress2 |
| 12:49.30 | Lope | bitdefect, I didn't try --debug |
| 12:49.37 | Lope | the destination has about 100G free, ZFS |
| 12:50.06 | Lope | It seems the issue was not specific to rsync, because the sshfs transfer also failed. |
| 12:50.21 | Lope | It took quite a while to fail both times. |
| 12:50.26 | epitamizor | Lope so can you even login to remote system shell? |
| 12:50.30 | Lope | But I know these issues are complex |
| 12:50.48 | Lope | epitamizor, yes, ssh working normally unless I transfer a massive file via sshfs or rsync |
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| 12:51.25 | Lope | oh, my bad, the file is not 3.5G it's 5.5GB |
| 12:52.10 | Lope | Sp the first time I tried to transfer it with rsync, it crapped out after 32K. the 2nd time, it crapped out after 4.7G, 3rd time after 3.6G |
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| 12:53.14 | epitamizor | check the logs seems like best bet |
| 12:53.23 | Lope | Then I did the cp, which failed after 1.6G, then I did the rsync with --partial and it resumed the file from there, and completed the transfer. |
| 12:53.36 | Lope | I then ran rsync with --partial --checksum and it said it was good. |
| 12:53.46 | Lope | epitamizor, good idea. |
| 12:55.00 | Lope | epitamizor, jelly, bitdefect: looks like a hardware problem. |
| 12:55.13 | shtrb | If I'm getting "Hash Sum mismatch" that mean that my mirror is in updating state correct |
| 12:55.18 | Lope | syslog shows Network manager kept reinitializing the network interface. |
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| 12:55.58 | epitamizor | that will do it |
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| 12:56.11 | Lope | It's a Microsoft surface pro 2 with a USB3 extension cable connected to a USB3 hub with built in gigabit ethernet adapter and a simple cheap USB keyboard (no backlight or heavy power draw) also connected. |
| 12:56.33 | Lope | I'll plug in a voltage monitor to the USB3 hub and see if it has enough juice. |
| 12:57.05 | Lope | It could be that after extended file transfer, the current consumed warms the wires, raising resistance and lowering the voltage at the hub and Gb NIC. |
| 12:57.41 | Lope | USB is convenient but it's really a botched engineering effort. |
| 12:58.00 | Lope | USB should be like 12v with step down inside the peripheral. |
| 12:58.38 | Lope | 1 meter of high quality extension cable "shouldn't be" (in a well engineered system) a problem. |
| 13:00.01 | Lope | okay, network is idle, my "USB Doctor" is showing 4.97v on the hub. Will try transfer the file again... |
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| 13:03.31 | Lope | oh, my bad. I was talking nonsense. NetworkManager wasn't reinitializing the NIC, it was the wireless interface it was referring to. Sorry about that. |
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| 13:04.51 | Lope | This is so weird. The voltage doesn't drop on the hub. |
| 13:04.56 | Lope | I'm going to try iperf |
| 13:06.03 | ratrace | Lope: I'm putting 5€ toward hardware issues |
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| 13:07.14 | Lope | ratrace, hmm, I'm not an expert in iperf but it's showing lost/Total datagrams is around 2.7~4.2% |
| 13:07.29 | Lope | seems a bit high for just 2 PC's with a switch inbetween. |
| 13:07.55 | Lope | I'm starting up my laptop to compare. |
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| 13:10.52 | ws2k3 | how can i set a different gateway for one ip or one interface? |
| 13:11.20 | epitamizor | there is only one gateway |
| 13:11.42 | epitamizor | the routes are used for everything else |
| 13:11.48 | jelly | ws2k3: you set up specifies routes for some networks. |
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| 13:12.58 | jelly | only one default gw and default one (unless you use policy-based routing and multiple routing tables, which is quite a bit more complex, but you wouldn't be asking here probably) |
| 13:13.13 | jelly | and one* default route* |
| 13:17.58 | Lope | The voltage on the hub only drops from 4.97 to 4.96v so that's not much of a drop at all, not enough to be an issue. |
| 13:18.36 | Lope | I'm running a 3 minute iperf test now. |
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| 13:21.35 | Lope | iperf isn't really reveling any problem... |
| 13:22.01 | Lope | I suppose I could boot a live USB and repeat the rsync test :/ |
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| 13:23.19 | hstl | what kernel Debian uses now? |
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| 13:27.44 | epitamizor | monolithic |
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| 13:30.14 | ws2k3 | can i use a different gateway for one interface? |
| 13:31.11 | epitamizor | if you have multiple internet connections ya |
| 13:32.05 | Lope | which packages do I need to install to get qemu/kvm/libvirt etc to use with virt-manager? |
| 13:33.12 | Lope | one thing that I think could be improved about `apt-cache search` is it doesn't make it obvious which packages have the most downloads per week or whatever |
| 13:33.21 | Lope | (as manual installs) |
| 13:33.22 | ws2k3 | epitamizor: yes i have multiple internet connections |
| 13:33.32 | Lope | that would make it more obvious which package is the mother package. |
| 13:34.12 | ratrace | Lope: does that surface thingy have an UTP port? Try connecting the devices directly, without the switch |
| 13:34.42 | Lope | ratrace, the surface thingy doesn't have a eth interface, so I used a USB3 hub with built-in gigabit eth. |
| 13:35.13 | Lope | ratrace, yeah I could connect the nic directly to it's USB port without the USB extension cable. Probably a worthy test. |
| 13:35.28 | ratrace | Lope: not what I meant. I meant to skip the switch |
| 13:35.46 | Lope | Oh yeah, well I agree, skip whatever can be skipped haha. |
| 13:35.52 | ratrace | but now that you mention it, that too, just do it one thing at a time with iperf runs inbetween |
| 13:35.53 | Lope | I've got a crossover cable somewhere I can try. |
| 13:36.04 | ratrace | Lope: I don't think you need one nowadays |
| 13:36.15 | Lope | ratrace, yeah, you could be right. |
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| 13:40.21 | Lope | okay will BRB, going to do a direct connection. |
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| 14:10.19 | Lope | ratrace, my original suspicion that the problem was the USB3 extension cable (and your suspicion that it was a hardware problem) is confirmed. http://codepad.org/ZSAoyiTD |
| 14:11.36 | Lope | When the USB3 hub is plugged in directly, the USB Doctor shows 5.01~5.02v. But when plugged in via the USB3 extension cable, it drops to 4.94v. Which I would have thought would be fine, but I guess it's a problem. |
| 14:12.52 | Lope | Guess I need a powered hub or to lose the extension cable. |
| 14:13.05 | Lope | meh. At least I know what's going on now. |
| 14:13.41 | shtrb | Lope, many hubs are also backpowering and destorying devices |
| 14:14.35 | Lope | shtrb, well, this doesn't have any external power connections |
| 14:15.04 | Lope | shtrb, but yeah, I did consider backpowering it but a quick search revealed that that's very bad. |
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| 14:15.24 | shtrb | You should be avoiding backpowering ,not enabling it |
| 14:15.32 | shtrb | sorry If I was not clear |
| 14:15.33 | Lope | I mean if you backpower something like a RbPi with it's own power source, that's fine. |
| 14:15.46 | shtrb | nope , no , please don't |
| 14:15.50 | Lope | shtrb, yeah, no worries, I know what you meant. |
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| 14:16.36 | shtrb | Is there an equivalent for dhcp leases for IPv6 ip via RA ? |
| 14:16.38 | Lope | shtrb, well, on some SBC's there's no USB power fuses etc. the 5v rail is a direct connection between all USB ports and the GPIO and the power input. |
| 14:17.04 | shtrb | Lope, that how I actually powered a pi when my power adapter socket broke :) |
| 14:17.22 | Lope | exactly, nothing wrong with it. |
| 14:17.24 | ratrace | Lope: USB is so fragile.... |
| 14:17.36 | Lope | The problem with backpowering is when there are 2 separate PSU's involved. |
| 14:17.52 | Lope | otherwise it's fine IMO. |
| 14:18.09 | Lope | Yeah, USB is such a pathetic design, power wise. |
| 14:18.11 | shtrb | Lope, no fuses , no defenses , easy way to have your sata drive going nvidia style |
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| 14:18.51 | Lope | Anecdotally the USB3 hub got warm from all the tests, so it definitely pulls a bit of current. |
| 14:19.09 | Lope | It's a pity my USB doctor is only USB2. Quite a fail in that regard. |
| 14:19.21 | Lope | They could have passed through USB3 instead, wouldn't cost much more. |
| 14:19.33 | ratrace | could be worse, having a USB3.0 only PCI extension thing that doens't support 2.0 or lower |
| 14:19.52 | shtrb | what's a USB doctor ? |
| 14:20.14 | Lope | So I had to plug in my USB doctor as a peripheral to the hub rather than in series... but that IS better though, actually, cos it won't drop the voltage much as a peripheral, though it's 7seg LED's pull some mA for sure. |
| 14:20.23 | Lope | shtrb, look them up on ebay |
| 14:21.03 | Lope | I just find it so pathetic that mobile decices are omitting ethernet ports these days, and come with a single USB port. |
| 14:21.24 | ratrace | whoa waitaminute... voltage in parallel is.... ya you can't do that |
| 14:22.10 | Lope | But I find a lot of things pathetic... like that gigabit LAN is still standard, which is like 20 year old tech. |
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| 14:24.22 | ratrace | Lope: GbE is still quite a sane default. whaddayawant, 10? |
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| 14:31.36 | Lope | ratrace, I suppose it's a balance of power and performance and of course cost. |
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| 14:32.01 | Lope | ratrace, but 10GbE is backwards compatible with 1GbE and so on. |
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| 14:32.54 | Lope | Surely it could be in a low power mode by default, so that if 100GbE is saturated for more than 3 seconds, it switches to 1Gb and so on to 10GbE |
| 14:33.14 | Lope | Lol, I meant 100Mbit is saturated, then goes to 1GbE then 10GbE |
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| 14:47.15 | ratrace | Lope: but it's overkill for consumer grade. wifi routers, mobile plans, 1GbE fits more than adequately, still, as a sane default |
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| 14:51.33 | Lope | ratrace, I agree, but I'm talking more about workstations and work laptops. |
| 14:51.59 | Lope | Also bear in mind that a much bigger percentage of "consumers" are producers these days. |
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| 14:52.18 | Lope | They make videos and back them up, share with family at the minimum etc. |
| 14:52.37 | Lope | Video is massive, especially 4K |
| 14:52.47 | ratrace | and those poeple buy dedicated hardware optimized for the workload :) |
| 14:54.02 | fredl | where can I find the CPU steal percentage other than in 'top' ? |
| 14:55.36 | ratrace | fredl: /proc/stat |
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| 14:56.39 | fredl | tnx ratrace |
| 14:56.56 | fredl | I guess vmstat as well ha? |
| 14:58.20 | ratrace | yes, and iostat, by the way. i thought you were looking for a scriptable interface, and /proc/stat is the source for all thoes tools |
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| 15:16.20 | f476 | cat /proc/stat |
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| 15:26.58 | Lope | ratrace, haha, well the cost of 10GbE has only become sane in the last few years. |
| 15:27.11 | Lope | Like maybe 2-3 years |
| 15:27.30 | Lope | Which is weird, cos datacenters have been using faster networking for a long time. |
| 15:27.37 | ratrace | it's one of those "just because it's there doesn't mean you should do it" things :) |
| 15:28.01 | Lope | hahaha |
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| 15:28.32 | Lope | Anyway, does anyone know why my virtual bridges, defined in /etc/network/interfaces fail to get created every 1/20 or so boots? |
| 15:28.34 | ratrace | I mean, just the fact that a spec and tech is 20yr old doesn't mean much, or else we should really abandon IPv6 and go for IPv7 straight :) |
| 15:28.54 | Lope | these are virtual bridges that don't have any physical network interfaces in them. |
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| 15:29.02 | Lope | So really, there's no excuse for them to not come up. |
| 15:29.35 | ratrace | Shirley, there'd be something logged about the failures? |
| 15:29.36 | Lope | ratrace, lol, I've never heard of IPv7 |
| 15:30.03 | ratrace | Lope: doesn't exist, but v6 is 24 years old now :) |
| 15:30.21 | Lope | ratrace, I must be retarded, honestly didn't think of checking. I've just rebooted when it happened. |
| 15:31.30 | ratrace | noooo, waaaaait. the next one should be V8! vroom vroom! |
| 15:32.10 | roycroft | jim fleming pushed ipv8 back in the early '90s |
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| 15:32.18 | roycroft | with the stargates and such |
| 15:32.23 | roycroft | he was laughed off the internet |
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| 15:34.39 | ratrace | ohlol he actually spammed the NIC mailingsts! |
| 15:35.27 | ratrace | and the "Not sure if sarcasm/trolling" futurama meme wasn't even born yet! Sad times, couldn't use the meme back then so everyone were SeriousBusiness about responding. LoL. |
| 15:37.01 | ratrace | but interesting idea... using hostnames as routing keys, without need to translate to numbers |
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| 16:25.57 | Lope | l8r dudes |
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| 17:22.00 | roycroft | hello, folks |
| 17:22.26 | roycroft | i recently purchased a laptop that came with windows 10 home edition installed on it |
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| 17:22.56 | roycroft | i have a few window apps that i need to run occasionally, and need to preserve that installation, but will primarly run debian on it |
| 17:23.15 | roycroft | i was able last night to shrink the windows partition to make room for debian, and was able to successfully install debian 10 |
| 17:23.26 | roycroft | however, i cannot boot the debian installation |
| 17:23.34 | roycroft | it does not show up in the boot menu |
| 17:23.51 | petn-randall | roycroft: What boot menu do you mean? |
| 17:23.53 | roycroft | this is the first uefi machine i've ever owned/managed that i did not set to legacy bios mode |
| 17:24.00 | roycroft | the uefi boot menu |
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| 17:24.07 | roycroft | as in f12 when booting the machine |
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| 17:24.24 | roycroft | i did create a /boot partition as well as / and swap |
| 17:24.31 | roycroft | and i set the /boot partition as bootable |
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| 17:25.00 | roycroft | when i installed grub there was an option to install it in an "alternate" location |
| 17:25.09 | karlpinc | roycroft: Don't know the problem, but the solution probably involves using rescue mode with the debian installer. |
| 17:25.10 | roycroft | i forget the exact wording of the option, but i could reproduce it |
| 17:25.46 | roycroft | it warned that if i do this i should be able to boot debian, but my other operating systems may not be bootable until i manually enable them in the grub configuration |
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| 17:26.04 | petn-randall | roycroft: Personally, I'd extract the Windows key from the BIOS, then install Windows 10 in a VM. That way you can use both OS in parallel. Only reason not to is if you're playing video games, as HW acceleration is not as performant in a VM. |
| 17:26.09 | roycroft | i'm hoping that someone here understands how uefi booting works better than i do (and my understanding is abou zilch) |
| 17:26.40 | roycroft | i'd prefer not to do that, as the primary windows apps i use are autocad and solidworks, both of which are rather gpu intensive |
| 17:26.53 | roycroft | it's similar to gaming in that respect |
| 17:27.08 | roycroft | plus, i have a lot of servers that are native uefi |
| 17:27.16 | roycroft | and i've been avoiding dealing with eufi for years |
| 17:27.28 | petn-randall | Ah, ok. In that case, I'd double-check how Windows 10 is booted (I'm assuming UEFI mode, and not legacy BIOS mode), and make sure the installer is booted in the same mode. |
| 17:27.40 | roycroft | i look at this situation as an opportunity to learn about uefi so i can use it on the other hosts eventually |
| 17:27.48 | roycroft | yes, windows 10 is booting in uefi mode |
| 17:27.52 | karlpinc | roycroft: With rescue mode (available by reading the prompts and pressing a F-key, probably) you can either wind up as root "in your new system", so you can do things like re-install grub, or be in a rescue environment with your root fs mounted on (say?) /mnt. Or just re-run the parts of the installer that do the boot loader. |
| 17:27.54 | roycroft | which is why i'm having this issue |
| 17:28.08 | roycroft | when i've done this previously (dual boot) it's been in bios mode |
| 17:28.11 | petn-randall | That's a common problem when installing Debian. Some EFI setups default to booting USB sticks in legacy mode, which will produce an unbootable system. |
| 17:28.45 | roycroft | i had to go through a lot of contortions to create a uefi bootable thumb drive for the debian installer |
| 17:28.53 | roycroft | but i have that now - i installed from it |
| 17:28.53 | petn-randall | Just disable anything called "legacy" or "CSM" mode in your BIOS, make sure Windows still boots, then boot the installer and install from there. |
| 17:29.06 | roycroft | the installation is complete |
| 17:29.11 | roycroft | i just need to deal with grub |
| 17:29.12 | petn-randall | Or rescue from there, same thing. |
| 17:29.27 | roycroft | i'm looking for more information about this "alternate" location for grub |
| 17:29.35 | roycroft | which i'm willing to do |
| 17:29.45 | roycroft | and how to then tell grub about the windows partition |
| 17:30.06 | petn-randall | grub installs as an executable on the EFI system partition. Likely that step didn't hapepn. |
| 17:30.15 | roycroft | i'm assuming that if i do this correctly, every time i boot the machine i'll get a grub menu with a choice of operating systems to boot, and can set debian as the default |
| 17:30.28 | petn-randall | yes |
| 17:30.29 | roycroft | yes |
| 17:30.33 | karlpinc | roycroft: I don't recall how I learned more about booting EFI (which I've since forgotten). Maybe the debian installation manual? |
| 17:30.35 | greycat | Make sure the os-prober package is installed. That will attempt to find the Windows partitions. |
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| 17:31.17 | roycroft | i did use the windows rescue disk utility to create a bootable usb drive that should restore the windows operating system if i screw things up |
| 17:31.23 | roycroft | but i'm pretty windows ignorant |
| 17:31.43 | roycroft | i booted off the rescue disk and got to the point where it wanted to reformat the internal drive and do the restore |
| 17:31.47 | roycroft | so i think it will probably work |
| 17:31.57 | roycroft | but i did not want to take it to the next step |
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| 17:32.06 | roycroft | figuring it would be a waste of time |
| 17:32.12 | roycroft | it would either work or it wouldn't |
| 17:32.16 | petn-randall | roycroft: During installation, the EFI system partition must be set to mount at /boot/efi/. If that didn't happen, grub likely didn't get installed. |
| 17:32.17 | roycroft | and if it didn't i'm screwed anyway |
| 17:32.20 | karlpinc | Seems like if you're able to dual boot you should be able to run the windows side in a vm -- also. Is this true? |
| 17:32.36 | roycroft | i'm not sure |
| 17:32.45 | roycroft | some hypervisors can do that |
| 17:32.52 | roycroft | the mac os boot camp, for example, can |
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| 17:33.12 | roycroft | that would be a nice feature, but it's by no means essential |
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| 17:33.31 | roycroft | if i'm honest, when i'm doing work in autocad or solidworks, it's nice to not be able to be distracted by outside influences like email |
| 17:33.46 | roycroft | so i don't mind an isolated environment for that |
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| 17:34.47 | roycroft | i had to overcome a lot of interesting challenges yesterday, but i think i'm like 95% of the way to having a working dual-boot environment |
| 17:35.38 | roycroft | i originally thought i'd just get a copy of vmware workstation and do a windows install in that |
| 17:35.55 | roycroft | vmware can access the raw gpu |
| 17:36.03 | roycroft | and peformance would not suffer much |
| 17:36.05 | roycroft | but |
| 17:36.31 | roycroft | 1. the machine only has 8GB of ram in it, and i can only upgrade to 12GB, which is not very much for running cad in a guest os |
| 17:36.43 | roycroft | and 2. vmware workstation is pretty expensive |
| 17:36.56 | roycroft | i'm not sure i'm willing to pay more for the software than i paid for the laptop :) |
| 17:37.35 | roycroft | so for those two reasons, plus the isolation thing that i mentioned (that's a psychological advantage, and nothing else), i decided on dual boot |
| 17:37.49 | roycroft | as well, as i stated earlier, this is my opportunity to sort out uefi booting |
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| 17:38.11 | roycroft | my primary laptop, a macbook pro, is failing and i need to send it in for repair |
| 17:38.28 | roycroft | that situation is becoming dire, so i need to get this new-to-me laptop working asap |
| 17:38.38 | roycroft | i'm out of time, so i'm hoping to get it sorted today |
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| 17:39.08 | roycroft | trying to do my usual work in windows would be infuriation to the point that i'd probably end up destroying the laptop, so that's not an option |
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| 17:39.26 | roycroft | i can tolerate windows for running single apps, and that's what i do for my cad apps now |
| 17:39.45 | roycroft | but xterms, email, etc. -- that's right out |
| 17:39.50 | roycroft | impossible to do efficiently on windows |
| 17:39.59 | roycroft | end of windows rant :) |
| 17:40.29 | roycroft | i'll keep searching for more information about grub/uefi/dual boot |
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| 17:51.40 | roycroft | so i've not used os-prober in a very long while |
| 17:51.51 | roycroft | not since i was building customer kernels for cnc controller machines |
| 17:51.56 | greycat | it's not a thing you actively use; it's just there |
| 17:52.07 | roycroft | if i scribble over the windows boot manager with grub |
| 17:52.15 | roycroft | and can boot linux and not windows |
| 17:52.21 | roycroft | and install the os-prober package |
| 17:52.31 | roycroft | do i just reconfigure grub and it will find the windows partition? |
| 17:52.44 | greycat | it runs as part of "update-grub" |
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| 17:52.48 | roycroft | ok |
| 17:52.55 | roycroft | that makes sense |
| 17:53.07 | roycroft | what i would do in the past is build the custom kernel with the real time code |
| 17:53.11 | roycroft | run update-grub |
| 17:53.16 | roycroft | and it would find the new kernel i built |
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| 17:54.09 | roycroft | the guy from whom i purchased this laptop is a "windows guy" |
| 17:54.22 | roycroft | he seemed disappointed that i'm going to run linux on the machine |
| 17:54.26 | scruloose | roycroft: I *think* if you have os-prober installed beforehand, then when it's about to scribble over windows boot manager you get to look at the list of detected boot options before the actual write happens. |
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| 17:54.42 | roycroft | but got very excited when i told him i need to retain the windows install |
| 17:54.54 | roycroft | he's answering my windows-specific questions |
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| 17:55.23 | roycroft | and doesn't understand why i find windows so difficult to the point of being infuriating to use, while i find unix easy and sensible :) |
| 17:55.52 | roycroft | i need to boot the machine off the linux installer thumb drive and go into recovery mode |
| 17:55.56 | roycroft | and reinstall grub |
| 17:56.00 | roycroft | or reconfigure it |
| 17:56.06 | roycroft | whatever options there are for that |
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| 17:56.17 | roycroft | i'm not sure if os-prober was installed or not |
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| 17:56.51 | greycat | os-prober is for finding non-Linux OSes |
| 17:57.03 | greycat | or maybe non-Debian, I dunno for sure |
| 17:57.17 | roycroft | probably non-debian |
| 17:57.18 | greycat | you definitely don't need it for extra kernels within your current Debian system |
| 17:57.44 | roycroft | iirc the linuxcnc guide to building an rt kernel said it is needed |
| 17:57.57 | roycroft | but the linuxcnc folks are more linuxcnc savvy, and less debian savvy |
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| 17:58.03 | roycroft | although debian is their preferred os |
| 17:58.06 | greycat | having it won't hurt |
| 17:58.13 | n4dir | most of the time i get away without installing os-prober, though it might well already be installed. grub kinda just works, adding a second OS, adding new kernels, what not, hence i don't really think about it |
| 17:58.50 | sney | os-prober is for peeking in non-mounted system partitions and checking if there's an OS inside |
| 17:58.51 | n4dir | if something wouldn't work, that is one thing i'd make sure (os-prober being installed) |
| 17:58.52 | roycroft | well instead of speculating, i have a few minutes, so i'll go grab that laptop, boot in recovery mode, and see what the grub options are |
| 17:59.07 | roycroft | and also see if os-prober is installed |
| 17:59.53 | jmcnaught | grub-common recommends os-prober so most people will probably have it installed. |
| 18:00.17 | roycroft | i had to install some third-party non-free drivers for bluetooth, wifi, etc. when i installed linux |
| 18:00.24 | roycroft | i assume that for recover mode i can skip that |
| 18:00.33 | n4dir | yup, is installed here, but the output of apt-cache show isn't that clear "other OSes". Might be linuxes, might be other than linux. |
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| 18:02.52 | roycroft | well, it's going to be a while |
| 18:03.06 | roycroft | for whatever reason, i can only boot the debian installer usb thumb drive once |
| 18:03.22 | roycroft | even though i wait until the install is complete and the machine rebooting before i remove it, it never boots again |
| 18:03.33 | roycroft | i have to reimage it after every use |
| 18:03.45 | roycroft | so i have to do that before i can boot in recovery mode |
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| 18:05.06 | roycroft | kind of wonders if he should have just bought a new mbp instead |
| 18:05.15 | roycroft | i'd have been up and running in 5 minutes |
| 18:05.26 | roycroft | but i've wanted a linux laptop for years |
| 18:05.40 | *** join/#debian nksegkos (~Thunderbi@193.27.14.120) |
| 18:05.57 | roycroft | and i don't mind spending the time sorting this stuff out, except my mbp is failing, and i have work to do that i can't do |
| 18:06.26 | roycroft | i have three jobs that need to be in the field with a laptop that i've been delaying |
| 18:06.35 | *** join/#debian nksegos (~Thunderbi@193.27.14.136) |
| 18:06.53 | roycroft | fortunately i have an imac in my office with mac os on it, and an older imac with debian on it |
| 18:06.56 | roycroft | both of which work fine |
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| 18:07.18 | roycroft | dual boot on a mac is a breeze, btw |
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| 18:08.27 | roycroft | ok, entering rescue mode |
| 18:09.08 | n4dir | don't forget to let us know when you breath in or out. |
| 18:10.09 | roycroft | sorry, i'll try to be more terse |
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| 18:13.29 | roycroft | so the option, which i did not and still do not understand, is "force grub installation to the efi removable media path" |
| 18:13.39 | roycroft | is that likely the windows boot manager partition? |
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| 18:15.06 | jim | is your machine capable of efi booting? |
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| 18:15.30 | roycroft | yes |
| 18:15.34 | roycroft | and that appears to have worked |
| 18:15.37 | jmcnaught | roycroft: https://wiki.debian.org/UEFI#Force_grub-efi_installation_to_the_removable_media_path |
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| 18:15.49 | roycroft | both the f12 boot menu allows me to select linux or windows |
| 18:16.02 | roycroft | and when i select linux, the grub boot menu lets me select debian or windows |
| 18:16.13 | jim | look in the efi partition for evidence of the boot firmware |
| 18:16.42 | jim | oh ok, so it does work |
| 18:17.02 | roycroft | well, debian is running :) |
| 18:17.07 | roycroft | i need to try to reboot to windows now |
| 18:17.11 | roycroft | if that works then i'm done |
| 18:17.24 | jim | I would test both boots... |
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| 18:17.56 | roycroft | this works |
| 18:18.03 | jim | great :) |
| 18:18.06 | roycroft | it defaults to windows if i don't enable the boot menu |
| 18:18.12 | roycroft | but it will boot linux if i do and tell it to |
| 18:18.14 | roycroft | awesome |
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| 18:18.28 | roycroft | sorry for wasting so much energy here |
| 18:18.55 | jim | no worries, I didn't see any of that anyway :) |
| 18:18.56 | roycroft | i really needed this to work asap, and did not have the experience to be sure i could do it |
| 18:19.12 | roycroft | now to make debian useful |
| 18:19.33 | roycroft | and i can just use my changelog for the debian install on the old imac to do that |
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| 18:21.14 | jim | good luck |
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| 18:23.59 | Paerox | I think roycroft is being verbose because of the time aspect involved. Don't give up, I'm rooting for you (pun intended) |
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| 18:27.17 | roycroft | the wireless connection did not come up, but it's otherwise working |
| 18:27.28 | roycroft | that should not be difficult to fix |
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| 18:38.08 | jim | roycroft, let's see. could you run: ls /sys/class/net |
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| 18:38.41 | jim | and just pastethe output, should be short/one line |
| 18:39.23 | jim | do you have another net interface? |
| 18:41.29 | roycroft | i don't have another that i can use |
| 18:41.38 | roycroft | but the output is: lo wlp2s0 |
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| 18:41.54 | roycroft | and i have configured wlp2s0 |
| 18:42.00 | roycroft | and it worked for the installation |
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| 18:42.07 | jim | ok, the interface is there, and appafantly the driver is working |
| 18:42.09 | another | doesn't want to be used |
| 18:42.13 | roycroft | yes |
| 18:42.21 | sney | most wireless adapters these days require non-free firmware to work fully |
| 18:42.27 | roycroft | yes |
| 18:42.30 | roycroft | i installed that already |
| 18:42.55 | roycroft | and as i said, i installed debian using wifi |
| 18:42.59 | jim | shoots another with a puppy gun! |
| 18:43.22 | jim | so it should come up... do you have network-manager installed? |
| 18:43.23 | roycroft | wlp2s0 shows no-carrier, broadcast, multicast, up |
| 18:43.26 | roycroft | yes |
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| 18:43.33 | another | ded |
| 18:43.59 | jim | or covered in puppies |
| 18:44.50 | jim | sney, well maybe he should look for firmware load failures in dmesg |
| 18:45.11 | roycroft | wpa_supplicant is not configured, but there's an entry in /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections for the wifi ssid |
| 18:45.48 | jim | sney, but we might be past that point since the interface exists |
| 18:45.49 | sney | it's not impossible for the driver+firmware to work in the installer and then fail in the OS, but it is unlikely |
| 18:46.07 | tramplefoot | would directly cat'ing data into a block device corrupt it? |
| 18:46.20 | roycroft | i have a couple unknown evenid entries in dmesg for the device |
| 18:46.21 | sney | jim: a few of the realtek drivers will load and then sit there uselessly if firmware is missing or wrong |
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| 18:46.35 | roycroft | this is an acer aspire machine |
| 18:46.39 | roycroft | the driver is ath10k_pci |
| 18:46.56 | roycroft | i'll do more research on it |
| 18:47.14 | Paerox | lsmod | grep ath10k gives a result? |
| 18:47.31 | sney | tramplefoot: broadly, it'll probably screw up a filesystem at least, though it depends on what block device, how much data you're piping to it and from where and why etc |
| 18:47.43 | jim | so the interface is up? try: iwlist scan # (or what's the other way to do that?) |
| 18:47.47 | roycroft | yes, several lines |
| 18:48.03 | roycroft | scan won't work because the ssid is hidden |
| 18:48.17 | sney | tramplefoot: 'cat data to a block device' describes one way to create a debian installer, for instance |
| 18:49.16 | jim | well scan will tell you if the radio and driver are working... do you see your neighbors wifi aps? |
| 18:49.21 | roycroft | oh, that's not scanning networks |
| 18:49.38 | roycroft | aah, it is |
| 18:49.47 | roycroft | and it's seeing all my neighbors' networks |
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| 18:50.25 | roycroft | i added scan_ssid=1 to my connection configuration |
| 18:50.34 | roycroft | which should tell it to just use what i tell it to use |
| 18:50.46 | tramplefoot | if i were to straight up pipe /dev/urandom into /dev/sda1 as superuser |
| 18:51.13 | tramplefoot | i guess that would do some damage, right? |
| 18:51.45 | greycat | Depends on what /dev/sda1 is. |
| 18:51.56 | jim | good... so the card seems to be functional... you're probably one step away from having it up on login |
| 18:52.34 | sney | tramplefoot: that's essentially what a utility like DBAN does. it will make it hard to recover whatever data was on that filesystem. it won't do any damage to the hardware. |
| 18:52.45 | jim | tramplefoot, curious, what has you interested in corrupting your filesystems? |
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| 18:55.09 | jim | roycroft, many times, a -wireless- connection gets established for a particular user when that user logs into their DE... what DE do you have, if any? |
| 18:58.51 | roycroft | mate |
| 18:59.26 | roycroft | i'm trying to make sense of journalctl -u NetworkManager right now |
| 18:59.56 | jim | when you're ready... see if you can run the network manager applet |
| 19:00.33 | roycroft | i see an entry that says "state change: unmanaged -> unavaible (reason 'managed' sys-iface-stat...) |
| 19:00.51 | roycroft | sorry, i can't cut and paste from this machine with its not having a network connection |
| 19:01.00 | roycroft | but i think that's probably the clue to the problem |
| 19:01.21 | Paerox | roycroft, have you had a look in /etc/network/interfaces ? |
| 19:01.39 | jim | if you want to paste that for us, do you have a usb stick that's formatted? |
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| 19:02.30 | roycroft | i just connected using the network manager app |
| 19:02.48 | jim | so your net is now up? |
| 19:02.56 | roycroft | yes |
| 19:03.01 | roycroft | hopefully it will be persistent |
| 19:03.06 | jim | great :) |
| 19:03.20 | roycroft | i don't do wireless on debian much |
| 19:03.28 | roycroft | i manage a few dozen debian servers |
| 19:03.28 | Paerox | Oh joy! |
| 19:03.33 | jim | no worries :) |
| 19:03.39 | roycroft | but i use mac os for worktations |
| 19:03.52 | roycroft | and the one debian workstation i have is an imac with a wired ethernet connection |
| 19:03.55 | roycroft | and now this one |
| 19:04.13 | roycroft | i'm building a new linuxcnc machine which will be wireless as well |
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| 19:05.23 | jim | looks like you're done with the basics... if you want to test it, reboot and try to log into mate |
| 19:05.47 | roycroft | a diff of the network manager configs shows that the non-working connection has "scan_ssid=1", and the working one has "hidden=true" |
| 19:05.58 | roycroft | that may be a networkmanager change in buster |
| 19:07.06 | roycroft | one of my frustrations with debian is that little things like that change from release to release, which in and of itself is no big deal, but a lot of instructional/troubleshooting documents do not stipulate what version they're working with |
| 19:07.23 | greycat | that's not unique to Debian |
| 19:07.24 | roycroft | so it's not always easy to find information for my specific version |
| 19:07.27 | roycroft | no, not at all |
| 19:07.33 | roycroft | and i don't mean to portray it as such |
| 19:07.49 | roycroft | but it is a thing nevertheless :) |
| 19:07.50 | jim | that's what you don't like about anything :) |
| 19:08.27 | jim | one thing is always true: upgrades -will- change things :) |
| 19:08.27 | roycroft | there are a few other minor changes in the config, but i'd bet that is the one thing that made it work |
| 19:09.48 | roycroft | and the connection persists after a reboot |
| 19:09.56 | roycroft | so it's all downhill from here |
| 19:10.00 | roycroft | thanks again for indulging me |
| 19:10.19 | jim | if it doesn't, at least you know how to start networking |
| 19:11.03 | roycroft | well i know i shouldn't manually edit the networkmanager connection files |
| 19:11.09 | jim | I'm not really familiar with how all that works, just that it does a lot of the time |
| 19:11.20 | roycroft | i normally don't use networkmanager |
| 19:11.29 | roycroft | with the server farm i just edit /etc/network interfaces, and bob's my uncle |
| 19:11.38 | jim | for wireless, it's handy |
| 19:11.45 | roycroft | but the wireless stuff is different |
| 19:11.47 | roycroft | and yes |
| 19:11.59 | roycroft | using networkmanager means i don't have to figure out a lot of wireless options |
| 19:13.06 | roycroft | so 2020 has been a really sucky year in almost every respect |
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| 19:13.36 | roycroft | but perhaps now i can finally declare it the year of the linux desktop, and claim something positive about the year :) |
| 19:13.47 | Paerox | :-) |
| 19:14.02 | jim | good thing is it's almost over ;) |
| 19:14.14 | roycroft | i still have to see if my usb to rs232 dongle works with debian |
| 19:14.36 | roycroft | because most of my field work involves connecting to rs232 interfaces |
| 19:15.16 | sney | those are usually pretty plug-n-play unless it's a really oddball controller |
| 19:15.30 | sney | insert dongle, receive /dev/ttyS* |
| 19:15.35 | Paerox | roycroft, what tool do you use for talking with rs232 devices? |
| 19:15.36 | roycroft | i forget the brand, but it's one of the standard ones |
| 19:15.50 | roycroft | i use an app called term on my macs |
| 19:15.56 | roycroft | i don't know what i'll use on debian |
| 19:15.58 | roycroft | perhaps kermit |
| 19:16.03 | roycroft | i'm sure there's something else |
| 19:16.09 | jim | there's also minicom |
| 19:16.11 | roycroft | first i have to have debian find the hardware |
| 19:16.21 | roycroft | i haven't used minicom since the '90s |
| 19:16.40 | sney | I vaguely remember hearing that screen or tmux can do it |
| 19:16.49 | roycroft | oh, yeah, tmux can do it |
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| 19:17.07 | Paerox | tmux? Whoa, gotta try that. |
| 19:17.10 | roycroft | i usually use screen, just because it's been around for so much longer than tmux, so i started with that |
| 19:17.18 | roycroft | but tmux would be the easiest way to do it |
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| 19:19.02 | trysten | yes, i use screen daily for terminal work-space. when someone told me they only knew of it as a serial program it blew my mind how old it was. |
| 19:19.22 | roycroft | the dongle is a keyspan |
| 19:19.26 | roycroft | and debian found it |
| 19:19.50 | roycroft | so if my pager went off right this second i'd be able to do a truck roll with this laptop |
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| 19:20.29 | roycroft | breathes easier |
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| 19:23.05 | Paerox | Truckroll, as in: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=truckroll ? |
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| 19:29.18 | Paerox | away Zzzz... |
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| 19:31.05 | roycroft | yes, but i'm a fiber optic engineer, and only do field work when the the support staff can't handle something |
| 19:31.15 | roycroft | my truck rolls are always real, and always expensive |
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| 19:36.03 | ws2k3 | im using systemd-networkd when the system boots i would like to run some commands/add some routes. how should that be done om systemd-networkd? |
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| 19:37.38 | jhutchins | ws2k3: It shouldn't, it should be done at the router. That's what they're for. |
| 19:38.16 | ws2k3 | jhutchins: yes i know that. but i have an additional WAN ip. with a gateway currently i just added that manualy into the routing table. cause my ISP cant do this for me |
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| 19:56.05 | ratrace | ws2k3: with a [Route] section in your .network unit |
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| 22:04.41 | jhutchins | !rfp |
| 22:04.42 | dpkg | Request For Package (RFP) is the way to ask for a piece of software to be included in Debian. See http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp, the section on that page "Adding new entries with "reportbug"" is a good place to start. Technically, a RFP is a wishlist bug filed against "wnpp" with a title beginning "RFP: ", ask me about <wnpp>. The best way of getting software packaged is to do it yourself: ask me about <nmg>. |
| 22:06.01 | jhutchins | ,v molly-guard |
| 22:06.02 | judd | Package: molly-guard on amd64 -- jessie: 0.4.5-1.1; stretch: 0.6.4; buster: 0.7.1; bullseye: 0.7.2; sid: 0.7.2 |
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| 23:31.58 | alexrelis[m] | How do I set the default file manager when I don't have a DE installed? I'm on Openbox and when I select to view a file in the folder it automatically opens up the Ranger file manager when I instead want to use pcmanfm. |
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| 23:37.53 | alexrelis[m] | Anyone know if it's possible? |
| 23:38.26 | sponix | alexrelis[m]: wait one |
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| 23:41.10 | sponix | alexrelis[m]: not sure about doing files associated with a file manager, but here is links done with a specific browser https://hexchat.readthedocs.io/en/latest/faq.html |
| 23:41.23 | sponix | alexrelis[m]: this gio and such might do more than just browsers |
| 23:43.35 | alexrelis[m] | Oh |
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| 23:45.59 | alexrelis[m] | Another thing I noticed when using Openbox is that when I open Synaptic my Openbox session freezes entirely and a couple of flatpaks don't open properly, including Element. |
| 23:46.36 | sponix | alexrelis[m]: https://askubuntu.com/questions/235660/how-do-i-change-the-default-file-manager-back-to-nautilus |
| 23:46.50 | sponix | alexrelis[m]: this recommends you install the xfce util for setting default apps :) |
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| 23:49.07 | alexrelis[m] | sponix: I'm going to try that. Thank you! |
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| 23:49.42 | sponix | must admit, I've never even installed openbox |
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| 23:51.31 | alexrelis[m] | sponix: you should try it. Other than the obscure issues I've had with it, it's really great if you want something really lightweight but aren't a fan of tiling wms. |
| 23:57.24 | sponix | alexrelis[m]: I tend to use xfce, and it fits my needs well |
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| 23:59.40 | roycroft | speaking of such things |
| 23:59.49 | roycroft | i set up the window manager with mate |
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| 23:59.52 | roycroft | it kind of sucks |
| 23:59.59 | roycroft | no easy hot key sequence to switch windows |