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| 01:11.13 | hendursaga | Do the Raspberry Pi images use polkit or policykit? |
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| 01:14.10 | hendursaga | Apparently they still do. |
| 01:16.02 | hendursaga | Does arm64 Debian Buster still use policykit?? Is it an ARM thing? |
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| 01:19.24 | BCMM | hendursaga: policykit/polkit is not an ARM-specific thing |
| 01:19.59 | sney | hendursaga: looks like one or the other is a dependency of gnome, kde, and cinnamon. |
| 01:20.12 | hendursaga | I meant, is the reason why it's still using policykit instead of polkit, because it's ARM? |
| 01:20.22 | BCMM | hendursaga: https://wiki.debian.org/PolicyKit |
| 01:20.28 | hendursaga | I believe polkit is the successor of policykit, so wouldn't that mean it's legacy? |
| 01:20.58 | BCMM | "While PolicyKit has been replaced by polkit (which rewrote system component, breaking backwards compatibility) in many distributions, Debian continues to use PolicyKit from Debian 7 wheezy through Debian 10 buster." (from the above link) |
| 01:21.17 | hendursaga | Ah! I see. So bullseye doesn't use it? |
| 01:23.07 | BCMM | i've got a "policykit-1" package on Sid right now |
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| 01:24.02 | BCMM | as required, indirectly, by the KDE desktop task |
| 01:25.08 | hendursaga | Hmmm. So I guess it'll take a little bit longer to fully replace then |
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| 02:34.16 | prg318 | Is there a way to uninstall a group of packages? I did a "apt install php" and am trying to figure out the best way to undo that |
| 02:35.59 | jmcnaught | prg318: did you try "apt autoremove" |
| 02:36.19 | prg318 | Yeah - that works I just didn't know if that was the best way |
| 02:37.03 | prg318 | because it didn't remove everything.. i had to uninstall apache2 as well (which I didn't realize would be a dependency on the php package) |
| 02:37.44 | prg318 | Which is totally fine - Its not a big deal to remove that.. but i wasn't sure if i was missing something in apt that would remove all of the packages for a group |
| 02:37.52 | jmcnaught | prg318: autoremove does not remove packages that are "Suggested" or "Recommended" by any other packages still installed on the system. |
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| 02:38.57 | jmcnaught | prg318: so maybe something else you have installed suggests apache2. |
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| 02:40.26 | prg318 | https://pastebin.com/AWfk5e8N apache2 seems to be installed as a dependency of php7.3 |
| 02:41.09 | prg318 | Or perhaps getting installed as a dependency of one of the suggested packages for php7.3 ? |
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| 02:42.16 | sney | php7.4 depends on libapache2-mod-php7.4 *or* php7.4-fpm, if you didn't want the apache stuff it should have been e.g. 'apt install php7.4 php7.4-fpm nginx' |
| 02:42.37 | sney | er, 7.3. same idea. |
| 02:43.25 | prg318 | Oh wow - I had no idea that apt would try to use context clues like that. In this case, nginx was already installed, but I see now that none of the apache2 packages are recommended when I do "apt install php7.3 nginx" |
| 02:43.35 | prg318 | thanks sney |
| 02:43.35 | sney | you can look at the output of 'apt show' for a given package to get an idea of what it will want to install |
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| 02:45.37 | prg318 | How does apt know not to install libapache2-mod-php7.3? Additional logic within the .deb? |
| 02:45.54 | prg318 | Well to not install libapache2-mod-php7.3 when nginx is also on the apt install command line |
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| 02:46.24 | sney | control files in the .deb define the dependency relationships, and apt sorts them out, more or less |
| 02:46.47 | themill | ,depends php7.3 |
| 02:46.48 | judd | Package php7.3 in buster/amd64 -- depends: libapache2-mod-php7.3 | php7.3-fpm | php7.3-cgi, php7.3-common. |
| 02:46.59 | themill | "Depends: foo | bar | baz" |
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| 02:47.41 | sney | some web-related packages will depend generically on a 'httpd', so specifying nginx is how I keep apache2 from sneaking in if that's what I want. |
| 02:47.42 | themill | meaning that if you have none of foo/bar/baz installed, it will first try to install foo for you. If you've already for baz installed, there's nothing to do. |
| 02:48.27 | jmcnaught | "apt install php7.3 nginx" will still also install apache2, like said above you want to isntall php7.3-fpm (which does not depend on apache2) to satisfy the "libapache2-mod-php7.3 | php7.3-fpm" dependency in the php7.3 package. |
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| 02:49.27 | prg318 | Okay - that makes sense. Thanks |
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| 02:59.50 | alex11 | how can i stop firefox-esr opening caja instead of thunar when clicking the 'open containing folder' part of downloads? |
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| 03:08.23 | sponix2ipfw | alex11: preferred applications |
| 03:08.41 | alex11 | in firefox? |
| 03:08.50 | sponix2ipfw | Most desktop environments have it |
| 03:09.04 | alex11 | mine is set to thunar, in xfce |
| 03:09.08 | sponix2ipfw | Search your menu |
| 03:10.01 | sney | firefox has an application handler too, go into preferences and scroll down |
| 03:10.18 | alex11 | but there's nothing for downloads |
| 03:10.50 | prg318 | In debian is the default file browser handled by debian alternatives? or XDG? |
| 03:11.13 | sponix2ipfw | prg318: yes |
| 03:11.16 | prg318 | :) |
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| 03:13.29 | sponix2ipfw | I have a similar situation. I like using Nemo for everything |
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| 03:22.59 | alex11 | i wonder if there's an about:config option for it |
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| 04:14.33 | mangix | hello |
| 04:14.52 | mangix | does anyone know why fish is not available in buster-backports for armhf? |
| 04:15.06 | sney | ,v fish |
| 04:15.07 | judd | Package: fish on amd64 -- stretch: 2.4.0-1; stretch-backports: 3.0.2-2~bpo9+1; buster: 3.0.2-2+deb10u1; buster-backports: 3.1.2-3~bpo10+1; bullseye: 3.1.2-3; sid: 3.1.2-3 |
| 04:15.26 | sney | hmm |
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| 04:15.36 | mangix | right. 3.0.2 is available on armhf but 3.1.2 is not |
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| 04:15.52 | mangix | confusingly, fish-common 3.1.2 is available for armhf |
| 04:15.59 | jmcnaught | ,v fish --arch armhf |
| 04:16.00 | judd | Package: fish on armhf -- stretch: 2.4.0-1; stretch-backports: 3.0.2-2~bpo9+1; buster: 3.0.2-2+deb10u1; bullseye: 3.1.2-3; sid: 3.1.2-3 |
| 04:16.03 | sney | -common is probably arch:all |
| 04:16.50 | mangix | right. I assume it's come kind of build failure. I have no idea where to look though |
| 04:17.17 | sney | "build-attempted" with logs https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=fish&suite=buster-backports |
| 04:18.52 | mangix | pthread_create: Cannot allocate memory |
| 04:18.57 | mangix | impressive |
| 04:19.20 | mangix | tcgetattr: Inappropriate ioctl for device |
| 04:19.29 | mangix | sounds like this was built in QEMU or something |
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| 04:23.23 | mangix | seems this failing test was refactored upstream |
| 04:24.39 | sney | since it was only pushed to backports a few days ago, it's likely that the maintainer is aware of this issue and actively working on it |
| 04:28.12 | mangix | hope so |
| 04:31.01 | sponix | fish is a shell aye ? |
| 04:31.11 | sponix | thought I had heard of it before |
| 04:31.56 | mangix | yes it is |
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| 04:32.11 | mangix | the autocompletion is most of the reason why I use it |
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| 06:00.19 | sgo11 | hi, I have 16GB physical ram. But htop/free commands only show I have 13.6 GB ram in total. Is this normal? Does AMD Integrated GPU use my RAM? Thanks a lot. |
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| 06:02.35 | brachamh | sgo11: i don't know, but i'd guess that the remaining 2.4GB of RAM is being used by the AMD GPU |
| 06:03.21 | sgo11 | brachamh: cheers. do you know how to check/confirm this behavior? I am googling, but not found anything yet. |
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| 06:07.58 | jmcnaught | sgo11: 'glxinfo' from the mesa-utils package might tell you |
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| 06:10.26 | sgo11 | jmcnaught: thanks. I found the output "Video memory: 2048MB". Does it mean GPU uses 2GB memory from my RAM? I thought GPU has its own RAM... I am not a hardware expert so... |
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| 06:11.41 | jmcnaught | sgo11: does "Unified memory:" say yes? |
| 06:12.16 | SerajewelKS | i need to apply a patch to the nvidia drivers package, which i've done and the binary packages build just fine. however, with no amount of pinning can i actually get apt to fetch the packages from my local repository, despite it being pinned with a higher priority than the official repos. |
| 06:12.30 | SerajewelKS | it still goes to the official repos, presumably because they are listed first and the package's version number is the same? |
| 06:12.53 | SerajewelKS | is there some straightforward way to adjust the version number of a built package, or is there some other trickery to get apt to prefer fetching from a specific repo? |
| 06:14.22 | sgo11 | jmcnaught: no, it shows "Unified memory: no". https://hastebin.com/verodulala.yaml |
| 06:15.44 | sgo11 | jmcnaught: it's AMD R7 4800u |
| 06:16.03 | ploxiln | sgo11: "integrated GPU" takes a chunk of system RAM. "discrete GPU" has its own VRAM. you have integrated |
| 06:16.35 | jmcnaught | sgo11: you may be able to configure how much RAM the integrated GPU takes in the computer's firmware/BIOS. |
| 06:16.36 | SerajewelKS | is it as simple as adding a section to the changelog and rebuilding? |
| 06:18.34 | sgo11 | ploxiln: jmcnaught: ok, got it. I never really realized this before. I was using i7-9850H and never saw GPU uses RAM before. Maybe something new with AMD r7 5800u. |
| 06:20.05 | ploxiln | yeah, I think the "unified" variant has dynamic sharing between system RAM and VRAM, intel integrated graphics seem to be "unified", AMD integrated graphics it seems are not |
| 06:20.59 | sgo11 | ok, got it. thank you all very much for your help. |
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| 07:27.18 | Lope | I'm trying to build this on debian |
| 07:27.21 | Lope | https://olivevideoeditor.org/compile.php#ubuntu |
| 07:27.35 | Lope | when I get to `cmake --build . --target install` |
| 07:27.57 | Lope | when trying to build OpenColorIO |
| 07:28.12 | Lope | gmake: *** No rule to make target 'install'. Stop. |
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| 07:43.24 | TuxCrazy | is Debian stable suitable for absolute linux newbies? |
| 07:44.17 | Lope | TuxCrazy, I would say no. I'd say start on Mint, then move to Ubuntu when mint becomes too noob, then if hypothetically you get 1337 enough, move to Debian. |
| 07:44.46 | Lope | Debian is nowhere near as noob friendly as Ubuntu. |
| 07:44.47 | jelly | TuxCrazy: no, you need decent knowledge of computers just to get through the installer |
| 07:45.01 | TuxCrazy | ok |
| 07:45.01 | Lope | Debian is like a kick in the face if you're a noob. |
| 07:45.21 | TuxCrazy | So, Mint and Ubuntu are more suitable for newbies. |
| 07:45.47 | TuxCrazy | how about MX Linux? |
| 07:45.50 | Lope | I get kicked in the face and I've been full time Linux all day every day for 8 years. I've been learning to build debian packages from source since yesterday. |
| 07:46.00 | TuxCrazy | or SolydXK or Q4OS? |
| 07:46.42 | TuxCrazy | Lope, what do you mean by kicked in the face? what problems you are facing exactly? |
| 07:46.48 | Lope | I don't know anything about those. I'd hazard a guess that the fact that I don't know anything about them, they're so fringe that you're unlikely to find help with them as a noob. |
| 07:47.18 | Lope | In Linux or even windows, you want to go where you'll be supported. |
| 07:47.20 | TuxCrazy | ok |
| 07:47.31 | Lope | Ultra noobs are well supported on Mint. Noobs are supported on Ubuntu. |
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| 07:47.52 | Lope | #JustMyOpinion |
| 07:47.54 | TuxCrazy | but, Ubuntu is pushing snaps on users. |
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| 07:48.53 | Lope | TuxCrazy, when you get kicked in the face, you'll know. |
| 07:49.22 | TuxCrazy | Lope, have you tried Mint? |
| 07:49.29 | Lope | Haha, I started on mint. |
| 07:49.52 | TuxCrazy | which one? Mint based on Ubuntu or LMDE? |
| 07:50.11 | Lope | I didn't like cinnamon because it was too resource heavy, so I started on Mate |
| 07:50.25 | Lope | There were no other flavours at the time. |
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| 07:50.35 | Lope | I'm going to get back to work, good luck. |
| 07:50.54 | Lope | Just use mint until you get too hardcore for it. |
| 07:51.00 | TuxCrazy | Lope, ok. Have a great day. |
| 07:51.07 | TuxCrazy | Lope, ok |
| 07:51.26 | Lope | Linux is like a fight club, you're going to get knocked down sometimes. Just try not to get knocked out. |
| 07:51.40 | Lope | So don't pick battles you can't win. |
| 07:52.00 | TuxCrazy | ok |
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| 07:59.36 | Lope | to add to what jelly said, I think the debian installer sucks. I manually install debian without an installer. And the fact that the installer is useless for me, doesn't bother me at all. That might give you a clue into whom Debian is suitable for. Obviously the installer (there are different versions of it) works, and some versions of it seem decent, if your needs are simple, you can install with Debian. But overall it's not noob oriented. It's generally |
| 07:59.36 | Lope | contributed to and used by more experienced users. |
| 08:00.12 | Lope | This is just advice because you asked, I would never want anyone to feel unwelcome. But I'd prefer you take on challenges that you can cope with so that you succeed in your journey rather than get overwhelmed and quit. |
| 08:00.34 | Lope | You need to feel the rewards of having a useful and usable computer experience to motivate you to keep going. |
| 08:01.23 | Lope | Ah, lol, he left. |
| 08:02.37 | sevu | Hmmmn, I felt the installer isn't that bad, not so much different than from mint ⦠Been I while, I think the partitioning part was not so nice? |
| 08:02.54 | jelly | we replace just the partman part of the installer with our own script |
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| 08:03.39 | jelly | because it's hard to put LVM on whole disk without any partitions |
| 08:04.36 | Lope | I shudder at the thought of using the debian installer for anything other than a VM. |
| 08:04.54 | Lope | whoo, got the heebie jeebies! |
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| 08:41.41 | rgr | rolling my own Xsession script,when its run via startx all good, but from gdm3 or ligtdm, $(tty) is returning "no terminal". Any ideas what might cause such? |
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| 10:11.12 | dupin | I tried to move from stable to testing but I get error message |
| 10:11.17 | dupin | http://paste.debian.net/1176179/ |
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| 10:13.01 | dupin | yes, now I see sorry |
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| 10:21.38 | fourstepper | Hi, is the only available Firefox version in Debian the ESR under the package name firefox-esr ? |
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| 10:22.26 | petn-randall | fourstepper: yes |
| 10:23.12 | fourstepper | Right - if one wanted a newer version, it's a buld-from-source/from unsable repo or flatpak situation, then? |
| 10:24.43 | quadrathoch2 | fourstep, easier would be flatpak. And there was a time we had a repo for firefox on stable, but it was (for now) stopped, as they couldnât get it built on top stable anymore (afair) |
| 10:24.56 | quadrathoch2 | fourstepper ^ |
| 10:26.07 | petn-randall | fourstepper: pretty much yeah. Due to the fact that regular firefox is not really compatible with the Debian release cycle. |
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| 10:26.59 | ksk | fourstepper: you can also download a .tar.gz from mozilla.org and use that one I suppose. |
| 10:27.14 | Franciman | Hi, I installed 10.7, and now hexchat complains that there is no notification server |
| 10:27.20 | shtrb | Is there a stripped (more secure) FF packages ? (one that does not connect to mozzila on each connection etc) |
| 10:27.26 | Franciman | I have to manually start /usr/lib/notification-server/notification-server |
| 10:27.31 | fourstepper | thanks a lot :) |
| 10:27.31 | Franciman | how should I automate this? |
| 10:27.46 | fourstepper | flatpak seems like a way to go |
| 10:28.00 | petn-randall | shtrb: Do the Debian versions do that? |
| 10:28.20 | shtrb | Franciman, flatpak is defiantly not the way to go |
| 10:28.31 | shtrb | petn-randall, that is the default config |
| 10:28.40 | shtrb | *compile options |
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| 10:29.02 | quadrathoch2 | afaik you can disable them in about:config |
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| 10:29.42 | shtrb | part of , not all ,i just wished to know maybe there is already a stripped version that does not do that in the first place |
| 10:30.29 | quadrathoch2 | afaik no, sadly. I thought you can disable everything |
| 10:30.32 | petn-randall | shtrb: Maybe, but is that the way Debian's packages are compiled? I know that a lot of things got patched out of chromium, I'd be surprised if they didn't do that also for firefox. |
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| 10:31.55 | shtrb | petn-randall, only a fraction of users would not wish that features , it's like the geolocation default enabled (because that is a desired feature to many people ) many people like it (and debian by default does not strip that out) |
| 10:32.05 | fourstepper | I am sorry I was replying to my firefox question with the flatpak answer |
| 10:32.23 | petn-randall | shtrb: That didn't answer my question, though. |
| 10:32.28 | shtrb | fourstepper, what DE do you use ? |
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| 10:32.55 | fourstepper | swaywm, at least planned - I am looking to migrate in the near future |
| 10:33.59 | shtrb | petn-randall, yes , by default it connect too. |
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| 10:36.32 | fourstepper | why? shtrb |
| 10:37.50 | shtrb | fourstepper, by default you should be having some kind of a notification service, maybe you have something very special that you do not have a notification or you underwayland or something |
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| 10:38.09 | fourstepper | shtrb I think you are confusing people |
| 10:38.31 | shtrb | oh sorry , you are correct |
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| 10:39.29 | shtrb | Franciman, what DE do you use ? |
| 10:39.44 | Franciman | none |
| 10:39.46 | Franciman | I use i3 |
| 10:40.16 | Franciman | I installed dbus, so I guess I should add the notification server to the dbus services? |
| 10:40.30 | Franciman | but I don't understand how, I added the file to /usr/share/dbus-1/services |
| 10:40.33 | Franciman | but it does not start |
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| 10:46.59 | ratrace | fourstepper: flatpak or snaps are the way to go, yes. |
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| 11:08.58 | twanny796 | Hello, my RAID01 md1 turned to md127 after reboot, now I was to remove and start over. How do I remove the raid device. I have /dev/sda as the running linux, and /dev/sdb is an empty hard disk. |
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| 11:13.54 | ratrace | twanny796: mdadm --stop /dec/md127 ; mdadm --zero-superblock /on/each/device/that/was/member/of/the/raid . warning: that will irrevocably destroy the array. |
| 11:14.20 | ratrace | twanny796: meanwhile.... that will just happen again. if you want persistence, use NAMED arrays. /dev/md/somename instead of /dev/md1 |
| 11:16.52 | twanny796 | ratrace, ok thank you. I can start over. |
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| 11:49.03 | shtrb | Franciman, I think ratrace helped me last time when I had a similar dbus issue (don't know if that is the proper way to do honestly) |
| 11:50.17 | Franciman | thanks |
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| 11:52.06 | Franciman | in debian 10.6 it worked ok, I didn't need to install it |
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| 11:55.21 | ratrace | what dbus issue? |
| 11:56.22 | wigums | you know. that one thing that happened that time at the place |
| 11:56.49 | ratrace | oh yeah, that! |
| 11:56.57 | wigums | exactly |
| 12:01.00 | Franciman | ratrace, hexchat wants that I run notification-daemon |
| 12:01.09 | Franciman | but I don't want to start it automatically each time. I'm using i3 |
| 12:01.10 | Franciman | as WM |
| 12:02.09 | wigums | im no systemd guy but cant you do a systemd service file thingy to start it? |
| 12:02.50 | ratrace | is that thing even actually meant to run as a service? |
| 12:03.00 | wigums | no clue |
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| 12:03.12 | PaulePanter | Hi. Any idea, why unattended-upgrades does not work? |
| 12:03.13 | PaulePanter | https://paste.debian.net/1176197/ |
| 12:03.15 | apollo13 | I do not have notification-daemon running (not on debian, but the hexchat requirements should be the same??) |
| 12:03.23 | shtrb | ratrace, when a service does not start even when a file was put under /usr/share/dbus-1/services (however I'm not sure if that is a correct approach to have an on-demand and not all the time ) |
| 12:03.29 | PaulePanter | But `sudo apt upgrade` will upgrade 560 packages. |
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| 12:04.42 | ratrace | Franciman: fromm what I see, notification-daemon is abstract, and you need one of the desktopy things.... or maybe look into dunst, if you're on i3 |
| 12:04.56 | ratrace | a bit conflicting requirements there tho |
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| 12:07.39 | jelly | probably "some service that implements a particular per-session dbus based API for desktop notifications" |
| 12:08.16 | jelly | good luck putting that into Suggests: or Recommends: |
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| 12:08.33 | shtrb | Franciman, do you have any notification working for instance if you run notify-send "blabla" does that work ? |
| 12:09.02 | jelly | let's see what the BEST documentation says... |
| 12:09.04 | jelly | https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Desktop_notifications#Notification_servers |
| 12:09.22 | jelly | (did you think it would be anything but arch wiki) |
| 12:12.31 | Franciman | I ran /usr/lib/notification-daemon/notification-daemon |
| 12:12.33 | Franciman | and it works |
| 12:12.35 | Franciman | :P |
| 12:12.39 | Franciman | no idea |
| 12:12.57 | jelly | that is listed as one of the standalone options |
| 12:13.11 | Franciman | I tried what the arch wiki says, by adding that file in /usr/share/dbus-1/services |
| 12:13.19 | Franciman | but I still need to manually run notification-daemon |
| 12:13.22 | jelly | you "just" need to figure out how to autostart it with i3 wm |
| 12:13.34 | Franciman | hm ok |
| 12:13.35 | Franciman | thanks |
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| 12:17.33 | csmrfx | Is there a correct debian way to re-install the initrd-image? |
| 12:17.57 | ratrace | Franciman: you can shove it into ~/.Xsessionrc I suppose but.... really..... look into actual non-abstract packages for notification-daemon. |
| 12:18.01 | ratrace | ,i dunst |
| 12:18.04 | judd | Package dunst (x11, optional) in buster/amd64: dmenu-ish notification-daemon. Version: 1.3.2-1; Size: 54.1k; Installed: 140k; Homepage: https://dunst-project.org/; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/dunst |
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| 12:18.36 | jelly | csmrfx: update-initramfs tool |
| 12:18.37 | Franciman | ok thanks |
| 12:18.43 | ratrace | that actually comes with a prepackaged service |
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| 12:19.11 | ratrace | Franciman: there are others, desktop specific ones but I think thse would just pull in halfa DEs they belong to |
| 12:19.30 | jelly | csmrfx: unsure if dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-$(uname -r) would do it as well for the current running (properly packaged) kernel |
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| 12:22.18 | Franciman | ratrace, so dunst is automatically started by dbus? |
| 12:23.07 | ratrace | it's a systemd esrvice |
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| 12:25.45 | Franciman | systemd does not show it, but I see its unit in /usr/lib/systemd/user |
| 12:25.50 | Franciman | what the heck |
| 12:25.52 | Franciman | ok thanks |
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| 12:50.07 | _0xbadc0de_ | hey guys |
| 12:50.21 | _0xbadc0de_ | I am installing debian on an nvme me ssd |
| 12:50.33 | _0xbadc0de_ | and basically my computer refuses to boot it |
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| 12:50.56 | _0xbadc0de_ | I had previously another nvme m2 ssd that booted OK but it had windows |
| 12:51.00 | _0xbadc0de_ | bios options: |
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| 12:51.05 | _0xbadc0de_ | Enable CSM |
| 12:51.09 | _0xbadc0de_ | Disabled Secure Boot |
| 12:52.20 | csmrfx | jelly: kewl, I will try to do the former. |
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| 13:06.58 | ratrace | _0xbadc0de_: I had to upgrade to backported kernel to get Buster to behave with nvmes. Could be specific to those brands tho |
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| 13:11.22 | nevivurn | _0xbadc0de_: the usb, or the installed system? |
| 13:12.19 | nevivurn | s/usb/installation media/ |
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| 13:30.00 | TomyWork | I have a debian server. Someone ran "apt-get install network-manager" and "nmtui" on it. Now DNS was broken and I couldn't be bothered to fix network-manager so I purged it and all the dependencies it dragged in. one reboot later, my /etc/resolv.conf still isn't back, though. What am I missing? |
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| 13:30.30 | TomyWork | the file is just empty. what component manages that on a freshly installed debian server? |
| 13:30.37 | ratrace | TomyWork: without NM, how are you defining the network? |
| 13:30.43 | shtrb | TomyWork, do you have dhcp to update it ? |
| 13:30.54 | shtrb | *dhclient of some kinds |
| 13:31.26 | TomyWork | networking is back. there is a dhcp server. i dont know which dhcp client debian uses by default. this is stretch btw |
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| 13:31.55 | ratrace | normally you don't deal with the dhclient directly. how do you define your network? via /etc/network/interfaces? |
| 13:31.56 | TomyWork | I have an earlier clone of the machine where i could look up things. i already checked if the file is symlinked over there. it isn't |
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| 13:33.41 | TomyWork | ratrace, not entirely sure. the person who initially set up this machine is longer here |
| 13:34.08 | ratrace | then you will have to do it |
| 13:34.10 | TomyWork | and their successor did the network-manager goof that I'm now cleaning up, so I'm kinda on my own |
| 13:34.22 | ratrace | by default debian uses /etc/network/interfaces, via ifupdown framework. |
| 13:34.48 | TomyWork | there is /etc/network/interfaces.d/ens160 with static addresses. i forgot about that :D |
| 13:35.00 | ratrace | one sane minimum config is: auto eth0 \n iface eth0 inet dhcp . minding of course you don't put literal \n, you get the gist of it |
| 13:35.13 | TomyWork | the network config is fine |
| 13:35.16 | ratrace | AND assuming your nic name is eth0. if it isn't, put whatever the actual name is |
| 13:35.19 | TomyWork | my concern is dns |
| 13:35.30 | ratrace | dns comes from network config |
| 13:35.39 | TomyWork | really? it isnt in here |
| 13:35.55 | ratrace | so step 1. check network config. step 2. see if that config is overriden for dns |
| 13:36.02 | ratrace | is systemd-resolved enabled and running? |
| 13:36.19 | ratrace | by default, on debian, with dhcp setup like I posted above, dhclient defines /etc/resolv.conf |
| 13:36.30 | ratrace | if it doens't in your case, then you have an override of defalt config thta messes it up |
| 13:36.35 | TomyWork | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:36.41 | TomyWork | that's probably it, thanks! |
| 13:37.28 | TomyWork | hrm, still not working, I'm gonna try a reboot |
| 13:37.32 | ratrace | wait |
| 13:37.41 | TomyWork | I'm still here :) |
| 13:37.47 | TomyWork | reboot only takes a minute |
| 13:37.52 | ratrace | what's "probably it", and what's "network config is fine". can you pastebin it? |
| 13:38.54 | _0xbadc0de_ | nevivurn: the installed system |
| 13:38.55 | TomyWork | the values in the config match my expectation, the file timestamp is months old, ifconfig and ip a show me the correct ip address |
| 13:39.03 | _0xbadc0de_ | I am sorry I was away |
| 13:39.14 | ratrace | TomyWork: if you don't show it, then we can't help |
| 13:39.23 | _0xbadc0de_ | but in short the installed system on nvme m2 doesnt show as bootable by the bios |
| 13:39.37 | _0xbadc0de_ | I have an nvme m2 with windows and that one boots |
| 13:39.38 | ratrace | if you knew how to solve it, you wouldn't be here, so your expectations aren't a reference point :) |
| 13:39.54 | _0xbadc0de_ | so probably some fuckery with drive layout |
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| 13:41.01 | TomyWork | ratrace, well the fact remains that this config file hasn't changed in months and DNS worked yesterday, before this guy installed network-manager |
| 13:41.19 | TomyWork | but I'll censor and pastebin it, hold on |
| 13:41.40 | _0xbadc0de_ | consor pff what a pussy |
| 13:41.50 | _0xbadc0de_ | like theres porn in it or what? |
| 13:42.24 | _0xbadc0de_ | censor* |
| 13:42.34 | ratrace | _0xbadc0de_: first of all mind your language. second, I'm bound by NDA with the company I work for so I couldn't post such info at all. I'm sure others are bound similarly. |
| 13:43.11 | _0xbadc0de_ | LOL, yes disclosure of dmesg we wouldn't want that would we |
| 13:43.13 | ratrace | removing IPs and other identifiable data might be required by your contract with the client, or GDPR obligations even. |
| 13:43.24 | jelly | volunteers here have the freedom to refuse helping with munged data, if they wish |
| 13:43.25 | ratrace | I didn't ask dmesg but actual network config that may contain IPs and hostnames |
| 13:43.37 | ratrace | jelly: of course. inconsistent munging is bad too |
| 13:44.16 | jelly | I usually just stop helping if I ask for actual info and the user responds with modified crap |
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| 13:44.17 | TomyWork | I'm conscious of inconsistent munging and I usually use search&replace for that reason |
| 13:44.39 | jelly | but if someone says in advance they need to censor stuff, okay |
| 13:44.52 | _0xbadc0de_ | I think sometimes people just overstress over those things, an IP or network data isn't that a big of a deal, just use common sense |
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| 13:45.43 | EdePopede | it's a big the deal if your local legislation says so |
| 13:45.54 | ratrace | or contractual obligation |
| 13:46.17 | _0xbadc0de_ | that you cannot paste ip addresses? |
| 13:46.30 | jelly | if you have a contract you can probably afford commercial help from someone who'll sign a NDA |
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| 13:46.51 | ratrace | jelly: unless YOU are that commerical help :) |
| 13:46.57 | TomyWork | ratrace, do you need anything besides /etc/network/interfaces*? |
| 13:47.08 | ratrace | as I am. and I'm no all knowing. sometimes I need help too. |
| 13:47.08 | jelly | ratrace: my hourly rates are competitive :-D |
| 13:47.19 | ratrace | TomyWork: let's see that first |
| 13:47.34 | jelly | but if you're asking in here for free help... well, provide the info we actually ask for |
| 13:47.41 | TomyWork | https://gist.github.com/TomyLobo/d2626ce67e723a38e477c2dbb47d1509 |
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| 13:49.17 | ratrace | TomyWork: alright, first of all you have split config between interfaces and interfaces.d/ens160. second, don't use allow-hotplug but "auto" keyword for static NICs. third, that's staic config, no dhcp, that means your /etc/resolv.conf is a manual thing to do |
| 13:49.30 | ratrace | *static |
| 13:49.48 | TomyWork | oh |
| 13:49.56 | ratrace | now, your /etc/resolv.conf is probably a symlink into /run a leftover from NM or systemd-resolved dealing with it |
| 13:50.15 | TomyWork | nope, it's a regular file. already checked that |
| 13:50.25 | ratrace | with resolved stopped, disabled and masked, should be as easy as unlinking it and providing your own actual file for /etc/resolv.conf |
| 13:50.36 | ratrace | TomyWork: then YOU have to supply the contents |
| 13:50.45 | ratrace | also check there's no resolvconf package messing things up |
| 13:50.50 | ratrace | remove it, you don't need it |
| 13:50.51 | TomyWork | i have the old contents on the clone, so i can restore that without issue, but i thought that file was generated |
| 13:51.12 | ratrace | it's generated by NM and systemd for dhcp setups |
| 13:51.25 | ratrace | for static networking with ifupdown, it's not |
| 13:52.57 | TomyWork | so systemd-resolved isn't useful for static ip setups? |
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| 13:54.13 | ratrace | TomyWork: it could be but you need to configure things through its own controls. also, resolved is not a requirement at all and only breaks things |
| 13:54.28 | TomyWork | dpkg-query: package 'resolvconf' is not installed and no information is available |
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| 13:54.53 | TomyWork | ratrace, that would explain why it was also disabled on the old clone :) |
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| 13:55.08 | ratrace | ie. resolved with grab resolv.conf and link it into /run so IT can control it, meaning you set up what you'd put into resolv.conf, via /etc/systemd/resolved.conf options |
| 13:55.29 | ratrace | TomyWork: resolved is not enabled by default on debian. for a good reason. it's broken. |
| 13:55.52 | ratrace | %s/with grab/will grab/ |
| 13:56.27 | TomyWork | network-manager did something similar, too |
| 13:57.41 | ratrace | yeah. NM, systemd{-resolved,-networkd} and ifupdown are three competing frameworks and tools for network configuration. all three have an opinion on how /etc/resolv.conf is set up |
| 13:58.47 | TomyWork | so in general, if I want my networking to not completely break if DHCP isn't there... I'm having the wrong requirements, right? |
| 13:59.12 | ratrace | hard to say from that statement alone |
| 13:59.42 | TomyWork | well there used to be dhcp for all or at least most servers from what i remember |
| 14:00.29 | TomyWork | (I'm not a network admin, btw, just a dev) |
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| 14:01.56 | TomyWork | anyway, at some point, there was an outage which required a complete restart of all infrastructure. some servers couldnt get IPs from DHCP and to ensure that'll never happen the switch to static IPs was made |
| 14:02.35 | TomyWork | i think part of the DHCP's state was lost, too, from the symptoms |
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| 14:03.24 | TomyWork | or possibly there was more than one DHCP |
| 14:03.33 | Dovid | Thanks to #centos for bringing me here ;) |
| 14:03.58 | Dovid | Is there any "roseta stone" for Centos to Debian? |
| 14:04.23 | TomyWork | at least some servers didn't get their proper IPs back (which were supposed to be mac-locked) |
| 14:04.43 | TomyWork | and some IPs overlapped |
| 14:06.00 | TomyWork | so in short, the DHCP is a mess, so we don't used it anymore -_- |
| 14:06.21 | ratrace | Dovid: just pay up for RHEL :) |
| 14:06.35 | jelly | TomyWork: is this a server? |
| 14:06.52 | TomyWork | jelly, at least one, like i said :) |
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| 14:07.25 | jelly | TomyWork: if it's a server and your eth is always going to exist, replace "allow-hotplug ens160" with "auto ens160" |
| 14:07.32 | ratrace | TomyWork: I personally prefer static networking wherever possible, even if dhcpd is available. it's more robust in my experience. also running your own recursive resolvers, I prefer bind because I also run authoritative zones, but unbound is a good resolver if you don't need authoritative zones |
| 14:07.39 | TomyWork | oh, i thought you were referring to the DHCP mess i just mentioned |
| 14:08.06 | Dovid | ratrace: It's not just about me. It's about the entire eco system and where a lot of the developers will go. My few shekels wont do much. I care more about the people that write the software that I use will go. |
| 14:08.08 | ratrace | the allow-hotplug -> auto change was already suggested, and also do it all in one file. your config is split between two files |
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| 14:09.31 | ratrace | Dovid: if CentOS was prefered over Debian to begin with, the switch might not be wanted at all, NOW. no selinux (there is, but good luck with it), it's not dbus centric, and you get only ~3 years of reasonable support, the "LTS" project is much less than people think. |
| 14:09.42 | TomyWork | isn't splitting vs. 1 file just personal preference? |
| 14:10.09 | ratrace | TomyWork: yes but you've got one NIC defined in TWO places. allow-hotplug (which should be auto) in one, and the inet stanza in another |
| 14:10.22 | ratrace | so use either one or the other file, for taht one NIC |
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| 14:10.26 | TomyWork | oh |
| 14:10.36 | TomyWork | i thought i needed both stanzas |
| 14:10.41 | ratrace | it's a pattern, not a technical requirement, but your future self will be thankful |
| 14:10.53 | ratrace | you do need both but they don't need to be in two files |
| 14:11.14 | ratrace | the /etc/network/interfaces.d/ pattern is mostly useful if you have a lot of NICs |
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| 14:11.29 | Dovid | ratrace: on debain? |
| 14:11.36 | ratrace | Dovid: yes |
| 14:11.53 | ratrace | Dovid: if you had enterprisey requirements that CentOS offered in the first place, you won't find them in Debian |
| 14:12.04 | TomyWork | well i have 2 now, which is why that network admin was even messing with the system |
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| 14:13.28 | Dovid | ratrace: Define enterprise? To me it's about a stable system that can work for years on end |
| 14:14.31 | ratrace | Dovid: and you didn't opt for Debian in the frist place, because? just trying to figure out what the expectations are here :) |
| 14:14.32 | TomyWork | ratrace, ok, i moved the lo stuff into its own file and moved the ens160 stuff to the ens160 file (and changed it to auto). now there's only the "source" line in /etc/network/interfaces. |
| 14:14.48 | ratrace | TomyWork: that's okay |
| 14:15.05 | TomyWork | looks much more consistent this way |
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| 14:15.16 | ratrace | TomyWork: that was the idea. |
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| 14:15.46 | ratrace | and it's not bad even if you have lo in interfaces, but ens160 in interfaces.d/.. you had ens160 BOTH in interfaces and interfaces.d/... |
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| 14:16.43 | Dovid | ratrace: I was exposed to RedHat in 2003 and its worked great for me since. Now with the changes I need to make sure I have something stable that will "just work" |
| 14:17.14 | quadrathoch2 | Dovid, I guess you could find more happiness in Oracle Linux probably |
| 14:17.48 | ratrace | Dovid: Debian will work, but it's a radically different system. it's not just "yet another linux". the distros are quite dissimilar |
| 14:17.54 | Dovid | quadrathoch2: Over my dead body |
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| 14:18.22 | Dovid | ratrace: I understand that and I am willing to learn. I just want to invest all my effort in one distro and not have to switch |
| 14:18.23 | ratrace | for starters, it's supported for 2-3 years, so see if that's okay with you, or you're okay with what the "LTS" effort provides for Debian into 5 years of support |
| 14:18.37 | quadrathoch2 | or just wait till the original creator of centos is creating a new distro (he already announced it) |
| 14:18.56 | Dovid | LTS is fine with me |
| 14:19.00 | ratrace | quadrathoch2: so that's 5 years _minimum_ to get it to a usable state thta centos was 10 years aog? |
| 14:19.07 | Dovid | quadrathoch2: where was that? |
| 14:19.11 | ratrace | Dovid: understand what LTS means here realle :) |
| 14:19.34 | ratrace | it's a side-effort that covers far less packages. |
| 14:20.02 | Dovid | ratrace: That's why Ia m here to learn |
| 14:20.50 | ratrace | then, install and run, and if you have questions, theres this chan :) |
| 14:20.58 | quadrathoch2 | https://github.com/hpcng/rocky Dovid |
| 14:22.16 | jomido | ratrace: thanks I had some similar questions as well. I think a lot of CentOS users are considering jumping ship. |
| 14:23.21 | ratrace | what surprises me is why they'r enot jumping to Ubuntu? Ubuntu is also a corporate backed, community enterprise os :) |
| 14:23.39 | ratrace | with ability to upgrade to paid support, but unlike CentOS->RHEL, no installation required. |
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| 14:24.10 | ratrace | RE-installation |
| 14:28.21 | jomido | I think it's debian's reputation as "being stable," just a guess |
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| 14:29.12 | ratrace | that one word is weird criteria to rely on tho :) it's mostly emtpy word. Stable in debian means ABI/API stable. not "100% never crashes" |
| 14:29.47 | shtrb | Are we going to see eternal September just for debian this time ? |
| 14:29.52 | ratrace | thoguh even 100% ABI/API stability is not promised either |
| 14:30.21 | shtrb | abi/api for this version not among versions either |
| 14:31.02 | ratrace | probably not. just with all other knee jerk reactions in foss, the "droves" will only be a few :) |
| 14:31.47 | shtrb | but it could be so much fun if users and hardware providers would start looking at debian as they looked at centos /rhel |
| 14:32.58 | ratrace | they are looking at Ubuntu |
| 14:33.07 | ratrace | and Debian indirectly benefits from that, btw |
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| 14:36.48 | bancroft | I'm having a hard time with man pages, when I do man dpkg I don't get the information I need. I usually have to google man dpkg and eventually i'll find the information on a site like: https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man1/dpkg.1.html so i'm assuming the information would be on man 7? but when I run man 7 dpkg it says dpkg was not found there. |
| 14:37.09 | shtrb | I had seen enough it works on ubuntu but fail to work with Debian because it requrire hardcoded ubuntu versions |
| 14:37.25 | jelly | bancroft: man 1 dpkg |
| 14:37.55 | jelly | man1/dpkg.1.html # it's in section 1 |
| 14:37.56 | bancroft | jelly: the information is there! so how do the numbers work then? |
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| 14:38.09 | jelly | bancroft: man man |
| 14:38.10 | ratrace | man man |
| 14:38.13 | bancroft | but man dpkg didn't |
| 14:38.17 | ratrace | highfives jels |
| 14:38.22 | jelly | it ought to have worked |
| 14:38.27 | jelly | ratrace: down low! |
| 14:38.30 | jelly | too slow! |
| 14:38.34 | ratrace | heh :) |
| 14:38.39 | ratrace | man dpkg does dpkg(1) here |
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| 14:39.00 | jelly | bancroft: which debian release is this? |
| 14:39.03 | ratrace | but where does that 7 come from? |
| 14:39.15 | jelly | that's the domain name ... |
| 14:39.26 | ratrace | oh they.... I see... |
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| 14:40.34 | jomido | ratrace: i dont think anyone else has the guarantees rhel/centos had, so any other choice is going to be less support, less guaranteed compatibility |
| 14:40.43 | jelly | bancroft: if you're not running actual Debian, your distro may have broken something; "man dpkg" is supposed to work without specifying the section |
| 14:40.45 | jomido | i dont know of any other operating systems that would be much better |
| 14:40.47 | jomido | opensuse maybe? |
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| 14:41.00 | jomido | I think most people think of ubuntu as too "bleeding edge" |
| 14:41.09 | jomido | and I realize we have gone entirely off topic now so i'll stop |
| 14:41.13 | jelly | jomido: ubuntu has LTS releases |
| 14:41.18 | jomido | yes I'm aware |
| 14:41.24 | shtrb | jomido, As there is demand , maybe some company would buy Debian's rights and give the same gurntees |
| 14:42.15 | ratrace | jomido: and unlike Debian, ubuntu LTS is supported for 5 yeras, 10 with a paid contract, and Canonical does additional HWE support |
| 14:42.30 | bancroft | jelly: man dpkg "works", but the information is incomplete. I was looking for more information on the -S flag and it wasn't there. However, when I do man 1 dpkg the -S flag is present |
| 14:42.39 | jelly | jomido: but really, if you used centos until now, it was probably because some piece of software you relied on worked only on redhat or centos, and you were too cheap for RHEL |
| 14:43.02 | shtrb | ouch |
| 14:43.03 | ratrace | frankly, it compares well to RH/CentOS. the only difference here is users enabling the "Universe" repo in Ubuntu blindly, forgetting there's no support there at all |
| 14:43.14 | jelly | bancroft: that is weird. Which Debian release are you using, again? |
| 14:43.22 | ratrace | so the number of actual supported packages, and level of support, between Ubuntu main and RHEL/CentOS, is comparative |
| 14:43.25 | bancroft | jelly: i'm not sure |
| 14:43.36 | bancroft | jelly: someone else made this VM in our school lab |
| 14:43.37 | jelly | bancroft: pastebin the output of "apt-cache policy" |
| 14:43.41 | jelly | !paste |
| 14:43.41 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: https://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: https://imgbb.com/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): https://filebin.net or https://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>. |
| 14:44.38 | jelly | bancroft: and just for fun, does "/usr/bin/man dpkg" produce the same info as "man dpkg" or not? |
| 14:44.47 | bancroft | jelly: ahh! I see ubuntu written in there, so it appears to be 20.04 ubuntu focal |
| 14:45.26 | jomido | jelly: that's not why I used centos, personally |
| 14:45.30 | jomido | im sure its true for a lot of people |
| 14:45.40 | bancroft | jelly: /usr/bin/man dpkg points to man 1 dpkg not man dpkg |
| 14:45.59 | jomido | I used it because I've been using redhat based distros since the 90s and I liked the extremely long support cycle (less frequent upgrades) and was willing to settle for slightly older software to get it. |
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| 14:46.58 | bancroft | jelly: I think maybe the path is broken, should I fix that so it points to /usr/bin/man ? |
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| 14:49.42 | ratrace | jomido: but frankly, if that's the reason.... the CentOS Streams doesn't change much? |
| 14:50.29 | jomido | I agree, for most of my use centos stream will (probably) be fine, it should be reasonably stable. |
| 14:50.35 | jomido | i'm not jumping ship yet just looking around :) |
| 14:50.36 | jelly | bancroft: I think this is not the right place to get help for focal |
| 14:50.47 | jelly | bancroft: try #ubuntu |
| 14:50.58 | bancroft | jelly: I think you're right, sorry! |
| 14:51.12 | Dovid | so who is responsible for centos.rip? |
| 14:51.50 | jelly | Dovid: ask in #centos-devel, not here |
| 14:52.54 | jelly | (because that's apparently where #centos channel redirects related questions) |
| 14:55.38 | NetTerminalGene | Dovid: IBM |
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| 15:03.43 | mambang[m] | <Dovid "so who is responsible for centos"> Look like someone from arch users |
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| 15:06.28 | sgo11 | Hi, For a sparse file, I mount it and increase its size. The actual size becomes bigger. Then I delete files from the sparse file. The actual size will not reduce. Why? How can I free the sparse file actual size? Thanks. |
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| 15:07.15 | sgo11 | I should say "I mount it and then add files to it" instead. |
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| 15:10.36 | jelly | sgo11: you'll have to blow holes in it in the places that are now zeros |
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| 15:12.30 | jelly | judd: file *sparsify |
| 15:12.35 | judd | Search for *sparsify in buster/amd64: libguestfs-tools: usr/bin/virt-sparsify, usr/share/bash-completion/completions/virt-sparsify |
| 15:12.54 | jelly | sgo11: I guess libguestfs-tools: usr/bin/virt-sparsify might do the trick |
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| 15:16.22 | sgo11 | jelly: Thanks a lot. :) |
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| 15:23.04 | oxek | I'm trying to upgrade debian, and it fails at the update-initramfs stage saying there's No space left on device |
| 15:23.20 | oxek | /boot was created with default size by debian installer |
| 15:23.37 | oxek | df tells me /boot is 99% full |
| 15:23.50 | oxek | I ran sudo apt autoremove, and it did not remove anything from /boot |
| 15:24.16 | oxek | how can I fix this? |
| 15:24.23 | ksk | oxek: check how many old kernels you have installed. "dpkg -l | grep linux-image" |
| 15:24.40 | ksk | remove any that you do not wish to store anymore. |
| 15:24.51 | oxek | should they not be removed automatically? |
| 15:24.52 | ksk | (ps: Dont remove the one kernel that is running right now) |
| 15:24.58 | oxek | especially by apt autoremove? |
| 15:25.08 | oxek | I never installed any kernels manually |
| 15:25.11 | ksk | That depends on how you install them, but I am unable to cite that accordingly right now. |
| 15:25.13 | oxek | only have the meta-package |
| 15:25.31 | ksk | you remember the Debian installer asking you which kernel to install? You most likely choose the wrong one ;) |
| 15:25.42 | oxek | surely this is a problem that is now hitting almost all users of debian, due to small /boot |
| 15:26.10 | ksk | as I told you, there are different methods of letting apt manage kernels, but I cannot cite them right now. Feel free to look into the docs yourself. |
| 15:26.11 | oxek | I definitely picked linux-image-amd64, with no numbers after it, because I installed according to a guide I made |
| 15:26.12 | ratrace | it is. that's why bullseye will increase it |
| 15:26.48 | oxek | so in the meantime, I have to manually find out the right package to remove? |
| 15:26.58 | oxek | is there a better way? I am likely to mess something up. |
| 15:27.03 | ratrace | default is to keep 2 kernels (with initramfses and maps nd configs) in /boot at all times, the current and the previous. those two take ~120MB. default size is too small. |
| 15:27.24 | ratrace | oxek: pastebin ls -l /boot/ ? |
| 15:27.31 | ratrace | oxek: -lh I'm lazy |
| 15:27.39 | oxek | I see 3 versions in /boot |
| 15:27.50 | ratrace | !paste |
| 15:27.50 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: https://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: https://imgbb.com/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): https://filebin.net or https://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>. |
| 15:28.47 | oxek | https://termbin.com/1r14 |
| 15:29.19 | ratrace | oxek: you can remove the 5.7's package |
| 15:30.04 | oxek | "sudo apt remove linux-image-5.7.0-0.bpo.2-amd64"? |
| 15:30.11 | ratrace | yeah |
| 15:30.27 | oxek | trying it now |
| 15:30.42 | ratrace | update-initramfs -u |
| 15:30.59 | oxek | hmm, a screen popped up that I am actually running that version |
| 15:31.06 | oxek | that is really odd |
| 15:31.14 | gnat_x | uname -a confirms? |
| 15:31.16 | jelly | don't remove the kernel that's actually booted |
| 15:31.31 | jelly | unless you're pretty sure there's another one that 100% works |
| 15:31.38 | oxek | uname -a confirms it |
| 15:31.51 | oxek | I guess I need to reboot and somehow change the version that boots |
| 15:31.56 | ratrace | I suppose I too quickly assumed your use case is the vast majority one, and you're on latest installed |
| 15:32.03 | jelly | aight, first reboot into newer kernel |
| 15:32.09 | ratrace | hold on |
| 15:32.18 | ratrace | if there'ss half-applied upgrade there, the boot may fail |
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| 15:32.47 | oxek | I have the debian installer boot stick, and all my data is backed up, so I am not too worried |
| 15:33.01 | jelly | oxek: is this a physical machine or a vm? |
| 15:33.05 | ratrace | so maybe remove the 5.8, re-apply upgrade, reboot into 5.9 |
| 15:33.11 | oxek | there definitely is a half-applied upgrade, because it failed at the initramfs generation stage |
| 15:33.14 | oxek | it is a real machine, not a vm |
| 15:33.27 | jelly | ok then |
| 15:33.57 | jelly | if it were a VM you might have tried the cloud kernel flavor which generates a lot smaller initrds |
| 15:34.59 | gnat_x | oxek: i would remove the 5.8 package, and finish the upgrade (is it a dist-upgrade, or upgrade?). |
| 15:35.14 | gnat_x | or maybe just apt install -f |
| 15:35.14 | oxek | it was a upgrade, not dist-upgrade |
| 15:35.34 | gnat_x | oxek: yeah, let apt finish the upgrad once you've freed up space. |
| 15:35.43 | oxek | I did not pause grub quickly enough... so I need to reboot once more |
| 15:35.50 | gnat_x | meh. |
| 15:36.32 | ratrace | how little people value their time :) your data is backed up, you got the stick, but time's irrevocably running.... seeping out of your grasp. second by second. |
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| 15:36.51 | ratrace | it's okay if it breaks, I've got hours to spare on rebuilding, instead of fixing it _now_ before reboot |
| 15:37.04 | oxek | I come here for support, not to deepen my exitencial crisis :D |
| 15:37.21 | ratrace | teaching people to value their time is part of Support :) |
| 15:37.35 | oxek | I'm still unemployed, so my time is free |
| 15:38.02 | jelly | free support comes with a free sermon |
| 15:38.14 | oxek | that's fair I guess |
| 15:38.22 | ratrace | dons the robes |
| 15:38.36 | ratrace | then doffs the robes. |
| 15:38.38 | jelly | and the wizard hat? |
| 15:38.50 | ratrace | it's a verb, look it up! |
| 15:39.01 | ratrace | jelly: teh sermonizing ones :) |
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| 15:40.05 | oxek | what does 'rc' as opposed to 'ii' mean in dpkg -l? |
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| 15:40.29 | oxek | I now removed the 5.7 kernel, and it shows as 'rc' in dpkg -l |
| 15:41.17 | oxek | and for some reason searching for 'ii' in man dpkg finds nothing |
| 15:42.16 | ratrace | oxek: the dpkg-query(1) manpage explains the package statues |
| 15:42.21 | ratrace | statuses even |
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| 15:44.13 | ratrace | oxek: and then consult dpkg(1) for the further explanation of those states ...... jeebus what a mess..... |
| 15:44.30 | ratrace | so rc, removed, with config-files (left) existing on the system |
| 15:44.35 | oxek | yeah, but at least i found the info I needed, thank you |
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| 15:45.09 | oxek | rebooted and now uname -a shows "Linux debian 5.9.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.9.6-1~bpo10+1 (2020-11-19) x86_64 GNU/Linux" |
| 15:45.17 | oxek | hopefully that's the correct kernel |
| 15:45.42 | oxek | the date is a bit odd, since debian 10.7 only came out last week or so |
| 15:46.13 | ratrace | it's not, that's when the package was built. since then it trickled and crawled through testing |
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| 15:49.27 | oxek | all seems ok, thank you for helping |
| 15:50.02 | oxek | a minor thing - there appear to be a bunch of folders in /lib/modules/ that do not correspond to the running & previous kernel |
| 15:50.10 | oxek | is there any easy way of clearing it up? |
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| 15:59.27 | ratrace | oxek: rm really |
| 15:59.57 | oxek | I try to not touch any of /usr manually because I was told the package manager does that |
| 16:00.40 | oxek | will it cause any problems if I leave those directories alone? |
| 16:00.45 | ratrace | no |
| 16:01.14 | oxek | I'll do that then, better than messing with things I don't understand |
| 16:01.30 | ratrace | it's modules installed by linux-image-$(uname -r) packages |
| 16:01.58 | ratrace | I don't know why they're not cleaned out on package removal. maybe via purge? or perhaps if you have dkms stuff, those modules aren't managed by the package manager |
| 16:02.14 | ratrace | at any rate, unused /lib/modules/<unused uname -a> are safe to remove |
| 16:02.16 | oxek | dkms is not installed |
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| 16:04.44 | oxek | don't know why, but I had a bunch of linux-headers-... and linux-kbuild-... packages installed for the older kernels |
| 16:04.47 | oxek | what a mess |
| 16:05.04 | oxek | seems like every update pulled in those packages but did not remove them |
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| 16:05.31 | ratrace | every linux-image-<actual kernel version> installs one directory there |
| 16:05.42 | ratrace | dpkg -L linux-image-$(uname -r) and you'll see |
| 16:05.42 | dpkg | No packages found matching linux-image-$(uname -r) and you'll see |
| 16:05.47 | ratrace | dpkg: stfu |
| 16:05.47 | dpkg | somebody said stfu was Shut The Fuck Up |
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| 16:08.52 | oxek | nice, found first regression in the new kernel. System freezes when firefox processes some webgl stuff. |
| 16:09.09 | oxek | I vaguely remember that's why kernel 5.7 was set to autoboot instead of 5.8 |
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| 16:11.59 | oxek | not every WebGL though |
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| 16:17.09 | ratrace | dunno, I disabled WebGL in the fox for security reasons :) that and webasm |
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| 16:36.41 | buu | Ok, I need someone slightly smarter than average. I'm using ssh -R to open a remote tunnel back to a host behind a firewall, which works until the ssh connection breaks for whatever reason, so I wrapped my ssh -R command in a while loop, which now fails because it can't re-open the same port because there's a zombie sshd process hanging onto the port |
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| 16:43.42 | greycat | It won't be the zombie process causing the problem. It will be the still-open TCP socket. |
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| 16:44.17 | SlaSerX | hi |
| 16:44.17 | greycat | You might be able to adjust options like ServerAlive or ClientAlive or something, to make the lame-duck socket go away more quickly. #openssh might be good. |
| 16:44.20 | SlaSerX | i need litle support |
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| 16:45.41 | buu | greycat: Why would the tcp socket still be open? |
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| 16:46.04 | buu | greycat: I mean, I assumed it would be tied to the process opened by sshd when it received the ssh -R connection and thus would go away at the same time |
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| 16:46.55 | gnat_x | buu: because sshd handles people dropping off network and reconnecting (within and timeout). |
| 16:48.02 | gnat_x | buu: so from the servers perspective the connection disappeared, before the session was closed. so it waits for the existing connection to reestablish. |
| 16:48.06 | greycat | Imagine you're talking to someone on the phone, and suddenly there is silence. Has the other person disconnected? Have they fallen asleep? Are they going to start talking again in a second? |
| 16:48.17 | greycat | You can't know. This is how network communications work also. |
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| 16:51.53 | greycat | Normally you know when a session has ended because the other ends sends you a "good-bye" message of some kind, but with an abnormal disconnect, there's nothing. Just a lack of incoming packets. |
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| 16:52.51 | buu | greycat: Sure, I suppose I assumed tcp sockets timed out pretty quickly in those scenarios |
| 16:52.58 | ratrace | (and no ACKs so the stack can detect "disconnect") |
| 16:53.19 | dob1 | can someone help me to understand this, (sshfs, afuse) https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/528699 |
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| 16:53.25 | buu | Doesn't TCP have random protocol upkeep traffic that could be used to detect that? |
| 16:53.31 | greycat | I haven't been in #openssh in a while, but there might still be some smart people there who can help you select which options are best for you. |
| 16:53.35 | ratrace | omg DSA 4808-1 |
| 16:53.45 | dob1 | I don't understand where it reads %%r and %%m |
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| 16:54.36 | greycat | I only see up to 4807 on https://www.debian.org/security/2020/ |
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| 16:54.54 | azeem | greycat: it just hit my inbox |
| 16:55.08 | ratrace | greycat: not sub'd to sec announce? |
| 16:55.49 | azeem | well it seems it's a DOS for APT if you pass it malicious .debs |
| 16:55.52 | ratrace | I get ergahgerd gersbermps whenever I see apt in a DSA |
| 16:56.00 | buu | greycat: openssh was a good suggestion |
| 16:56.13 | greycat | I think I was at some point in the past... |
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| 16:59.52 | ratrace | dob1: man systemd.unit(5) /SPECIFIERS<enter> |
| 17:00.09 | ratrace | eh man 5 systemd.unit |
| 17:01.09 | greycat | (you can omit the 5 as long as there are no other pages named systemd.unit to compete against this one) |
| 17:02.20 | dob1 | imho it's not them |
| 17:03.02 | dob1 | %m is machine id in systemd unit but it doesn't make sense in this context, I mean afuse command |
| 17:03.47 | ratrace | indeed those are %% escaped, my bad |
| 17:04.03 | dob1 | if I got it correct https://github.com/pcarrier/afuse it's a convenction |
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| 17:04.51 | dob1 | I have to create mountpoint/user@host/ and it mounts it automatically, reading the dir path. something like this |
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| 17:07.43 | ratrace | dob1: afuse specific, and there's no manpage for it, swell... https://github.com/pcarrier/afuse/blob/master/src/afuse.c#L371 |
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| 17:09.09 | ratrace | afuse -h for all that in a nicely formatted help text |
| 17:09.45 | dob1 | (1) gives the detail |
| 17:12.37 | ratrace | and look, it's %% even in the template. so maybe the systemd unit needs triple percent... lol |
| 17:12.43 | ratrace | %%%r |
| 17:14.49 | dob1 | in the example there was the double |
| 17:15.11 | ratrace | I don't know if systemd treats "quoted" % differently, but if not, the example is wrong. |
| 17:15.52 | ratrace | if afuse takes %%r, then the systemd unit must specify %%%r, because % has syntax in the unit, %% escapes it, but oh yeh.... four %%%% :) |
| 17:16.12 | ratrace | UNLESS.... systemd skips parsing % inside "quotes" -- I don't know if it does |
| 17:17.08 | dob1 | but maybe it's better the original problem to know why I found this afuse: my problem was to mount an sshfs at login/boot as user, I tried @reboot in crontab but nothing |
| 17:17.35 | ratrace | yeh definitely try to avoid !xy |
| 17:17.39 | dob1 | so searching aroung someone suggested this afuse |
| 17:17.58 | ratrace | frankly, I'd just use autofs. dunno of systemd mount can replace autofs |
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| 17:18.21 | dob1 | autofs can mount sshfs? |
| 17:18.24 | ratrace | without autofs(-like) behaviour, network hiccups and disconnects will break the mount |
| 17:18.27 | ratrace | yeup |
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| 17:23.28 | dob1 | it seems a bit complicated |
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| 17:24.51 | ratrace | single config line iirc .... it's been a few years since I used it tho |
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| 17:25.04 | ratrace | in fstab, even. |
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| 17:25.54 | dob1 | the fact is, where does it read the keys ? with fstab or autofs ? I think root |
| 17:26.03 | gregor2 | I sometimes get segmentation faults when switching scene in obs so i compiled it myself to get a newer version. But when i started the compiled one i get "Failed to initialize video. Your GPU may not be supported, ...". It hought maybe some devs of debian can answer that because they obviously fixed that problem. |
| 17:26.53 | jelly | sshfs has its own -o reconnect, sometimes it works, mostly it depends on your ssh settings |
| 17:28.00 | ratrace | dob1: automagically from ~/.ssh/... of the connecting user iirc |
| 17:28.08 | ratrace | (also minding ~/.ssh/config too) |
| 17:28.30 | dob1 | so you have to have keys in root user too |
| 17:28.44 | dob1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:29.10 | ratrace | yup |
| 17:29.14 | mutante | gregor2: maybe you can get the make file from the Debian source package and then compare it to yours to see what the difference in option is |
| 17:29.46 | ratrace | dob1: and if I remembered it wrong and sshfs doesn't use them automagically, you can always -o IdentifyFile |
| 17:30.14 | gregor2 | mutante: not a bad idea actually. |
| 17:31.15 | gregor2 | How can i get that? Is there a source package for every package? |
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| 17:31.51 | ratrace | absolutely. GPL mandated even |
| 17:32.27 | ratrace | https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/obs-studio https://sources.debian.org/src/obs-studio/26.0.2+dfsg1-1/ |
| 17:32.28 | gnat_x | i'm pretty sure that sshfs will use what's in a users ssh.conf |
| 17:35.03 | mutante | gregor2: yes, try "apt-get source" instead of "apt-get install" to get source packages |
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| 17:38.28 | gnat_x | gregor2: assuming you have source packages enabled in apt of course. (deb-src instead of deb) |
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| 17:39.50 | gregor2 | I got it but i dont know where the source code is in the filesystem. |
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| 17:40.44 | gregor2 | It has to be compiled with cmake by the way and i dont know in which file to look. |
| 17:41.12 | greycat | "apt-get source" puts the code in your current directory |
| 17:41.44 | greycat | normally you'd run it in some place like your HOME, or /var/tmp, or a dedicated subdirectory where you build stuff |
| 17:41.52 | gregor2 | oh no xD |
| 17:41.58 | greycat | you can always move it |
| 17:42.08 | mutante | gregor2: in your current dir but as a .tar.xz or so https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/how-to-get-source-code-of-package-using-the-apt-command-on-debian-or-ubuntu/ |
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| 17:44.12 | gregor2 | ok i got it but which file to compare? By the way i did not enter the command sodu checkinstall how it was described on the wiki of obs. Instead i cd to build directory and run the file 'obs'. |
| 17:44.19 | gregor2 | Can that be a problem? |
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| 17:45.02 | greycat | !source |
| 17:45.02 | dpkg | As an overview: to work with Debian source packages, add a <deb-src> line to your sources list; cd to a location with free space; download the source package with <apt-get source>; retrieve dependencies with <apt-get build-dep>; edit <debian/rules> to taste; use <dpkg-buildpackage> to build the new .deb. For more details, also ask me about <package recompile> <backport> <nmg> <policy> <source package> |
| 17:47.25 | gregor2 | greycat: I mean the downloaded one from the website. Their i skiped the thing with the checkinstall. |
| 17:49.10 | gregor2 | I am actually not planing to compile the source package from debian. First i just want to compare the make files. But the code from git is compiles with cmake. https://obsproject.com/wiki/install-instructions |
| 17:49.16 | greycat | you downloaded a source tarball from upstream? then you need to follow upstream's instructions to build it. |
| 17:49.37 | sney | and/or use uupdate |
| 17:49.39 | sney | !uupdate |
| 17:49.39 | dpkg | uupdate (in the <devscripts> package) upgrades a source code package from an upstream revision, or e.g. if the newest foo in debian is 1.2, and upstream is at 1.4: apt-get source foo; wget -nd http://foo.org/foo-1.4.tar.gz; cd foo-1.2; uupdate ../foo-1.4.tar.gz Ask me about <package recompile>. |
| 17:49.44 | greycat | if this is the case, ignore EVERYTHING that has been said to you about apt-get source |
| 17:49.59 | gregor2 | why that? |
| 17:50.15 | greycat | because building Debianized source is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT(!!!!) from building upstream sources |
| 17:50.18 | gregor2 | Why ignore everything about apt-get source? |
| 17:50.36 | greycat | either you are building a .deb from Debian source, or you are building upstream. pick one. |
| 17:50.47 | gregor2 | Yes i know that i just want to compare the makefiles. That is the only reason i downloaded the debian package. |
| 17:50.58 | greycat | well then, compare away |
| 17:51.40 | gregor2 | I want to build the upstream but i dont know what files to compare. In the upstream version they say to run cmake and i dont know what file cmake is searching for. |
| 17:52.02 | greycat | camke is a horror visited upon this earth to punish humans for their sins |
| 17:52.06 | greycat | good luck |
| 17:52.30 | greycat | ... gods damn it, I hate it when I typo something important in a half-joke |
| 17:53.20 | gregor2 | I compiled the upstream version but it does not work. The bin package from debian does work so i thought they have fixed the issue and maybe i can find out by comparing the files. |
| 17:53.26 | gregor2 | Actually somebody suggested that. |
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| 17:54.13 | greycat | once upon a time, Debian sources consisted of the original .tar.gz, a metadata file, and a single patch that had all of Debian's changes in one place. |
| 17:54.20 | gregor2 | Also i skipped the step running checkinstall when compiling upstream because i dont wanted to run something as root and thought it maybe makes no difference. |
| 17:54.25 | greycat | sadly, now that is no longer the case, but you can probably find the patches somewhere under ./debian/ |
| 17:55.20 | ratrace | https://sources.debian.org/src/obs-studio/26.0.2+dfsg1-1/debian/patches/ |
| 17:55.21 | gregor2 | https://salsa.debian.org/multimedia-team/obs-studio/-/tree/master/debian/patches |
| 17:55.23 | gregor2 | that? |
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| 17:55.49 | greycat | I meant in your local copy, but sure, maybe, who the hell knows. |
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| 17:57.07 | gregor2 | Well i just copied the link here to show you. I would have used the local copy to be shure. |
| 17:58.00 | gregor2 | And that is everything that changed? |
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| 17:59.59 | gregor2 | Can it be something different? I get the message 'Failed to initialize video.' when running it. I think the problem cant be fixed in the code but its just some configuration after compiling. |
| 18:01.53 | gregor2 | Maybe i will just use the package from debian. When i am streaming and get sementation fault in the middle i will rush all my fans-army against you. Be prepared. |
| 18:02.05 | gregor2 | Just kidding but thanks for the help guys. |
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| 18:05.58 | n4dir | gregor2: the librazik repository has a (higher) version of obs-studio too. If experimenting with that will be of any use is beyond me. |
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| 18:09.29 | mutante | gregor2: if it's just config then maybe "diff -r " of some directory in /etc/ where the package installs config vs the upstream config ? |
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| 18:13.26 | dob1 | I am playing with autofs and sshfs, I don't understand the difference to specify uid and gid in auto.master and in the auto.sshfs file with idmap=user,uid=1000,gid=1000 |
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| 18:14.27 | gnat_x | dob1: you don't understand why you need to specify both? |
| 18:14.53 | dob1 | gnat_x, I don't understand if I have to specify both (but it doesn't seem) or which one is needed |
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| 18:16.21 | gnat_x | dob1: i would specify both, since they control who can read/write the mount. |
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| 18:16.48 | gnat_x | dob1: but i would guess that if you don't specify gid, the uid is used as the gid. |
| 18:17.13 | gnat_x | though who knows if the defaults are that sensible. |
| 18:17.33 | dob1 | gnat_x, sorry I was not clear, I can specify uid and gid in 2 files the auto.master and in the auto.sshfs |
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| 18:20.37 | gnat_x | dob1: ahhh. okay. yeah, i'm not sure if you need to specify in one or both places. i suspect by the names auto.sshfs should be enough. |
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| 18:23.30 | mutante | dob1: I think you want both if you want all the features. they are 2 different things. The one is config for sshfs and the other about the _automatically_ mounting it part |
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| 18:24.48 | dob1 | ok so at the end I used this as sshfs options -fstype=fuse,reconnect,allow_other,default_permissions,idmap=user,uid=1000,gid=1000 |
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| 18:26.30 | dob1 | maybe reconnect is not needed if I use autofs |
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| 18:28.15 | gnat_x | dob1: i think you want that, because (i think) it tells ssh to reconnect if the connection drops. |
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| 18:28.43 | dob1 | gnat_x, I got it but it's not autofs role to check this? |
| 18:30.02 | gnat_x | dob1: yes, both will play a role here. but lets say your network drops packets for ~30 seconds. without reconnect any in-process activity (saving files), gets stopped. |
| 18:30.42 | gnat_x | with reconnect some of those bit will get spooled, and written once the target is available again. |
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| 18:31.27 | gnat_x | where autofs will just see if it is still connected and remount the connection if not. (iiuc, haven't used autofs much) |
| 18:33.06 | mutante | autofs is checking if stuff is mounted, but "connection dropped" seems different from "still mounted" |
| 18:36.00 | dob1 | adding another options is not a problem :) |
| 18:37.48 | f8e4 | hey, how to delete /boot/oldinitrd.img ? |
| 18:38.04 | f8e4 | via cmd tool ? |
| 18:38.24 | gnat_x | dob1: i just tested... a) mounted remote dir, b) went on remote machine and turned off networking, c) ls the dir. the local machine is hanging trying for the ls to complete, and the sshfs mountpoint is still in `mount`. |
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| 18:41.47 | dob1 | gnat_x, ok, so it is needed |
| 18:42.10 | gnat_x | that would be my conclusion. |
| 18:42.30 | gnat_x | and when i turned the remote machine's networking back on the ls completed. |
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| 18:54.44 | dob1 | gnat_x, there is a --timeout option that you can specify on auto.master, this specify the ummount from what I read, I don't know if this is in conflict with reconnect |
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| 19:10.37 | f8e4 | do you guys know what to install? venv/lib/python3.8/site-packages/PySide2/Qt/plugins/platforms/libqxcb.so: (libxcb-image.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory) |
| 19:10.39 | f8e4 | QLibraryPrivate::loadPlugin failed |
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| 19:11.19 | ratrace | python 3.8? not in Stable |
| 19:11.36 | ratrace | but wait... pyside2.... |
| 19:12.33 | ratrace | libqxcb.so is |
| 19:12.38 | ratrace | ,v libqt5gui5 |
| 19:12.39 | judd | Package: libqt5gui5 on amd64 -- jessie: 5.3.2+dfsg-4+deb8u2; jessie-security: 5.3.2+dfsg-4+deb8u4; stretch: 5.7.1+dfsg-3+deb9u2; stretch-proposed-updates: 5.7.1+dfsg-3+deb9u2; stretch-security: 5.7.1+dfsg-3+deb9u2; buster-security: 5.11.3+dfsg1-1+deb10u3; buster: 5.11.3+dfsg1-1+deb10u4; bullseye: 5.15.1+dfsg-4; sid: 5.15.1+dfsg-4; experimental: 5.15.2+dfsg-1 |
| 19:13.01 | ratrace | but if that's something else, related to pyside2.... then I don't know. |
| 19:13.14 | f8e4 | omg major crash: failed to exec child prcess xfce4-terminal |
| 19:13.22 | f8e4 | i think i got few min til crash |
| 19:13.25 | f8e4 | what to install now |
| 19:13.32 | ratrace | there's a bunch of pyside2 packages in Buster, check those out first. if you build custom software, you're on your own tho |
| 19:13.41 | f8e4 | ratrace ty |
| 19:15.29 | f8e4 | ratrace: i broke my system: 100 pkgs 'no longer rquired' |
| 19:15.37 | f8e4 | even: x11-apps x11-session-utils x11proto-damage-dev x11p... |
| 19:15.54 | ratrace | what on earth are you doing there |
| 19:16.06 | f8e4 | how to ensure i can boot when i restart .. (which i hope fixes it) |
| 19:16.14 | ratrace | and how does that relate to python3.8 and where did you get it, and is that even debian stable |
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| 19:16.33 | f8e4 | i dont know: i just uninstalled libxcb-util ... oh boy |
| 19:16.49 | f8e4 | rekt |
| 19:16.56 | ratrace | and where|how does python3.8 come into play |
| 19:17.09 | f8e4 | ratrace it is pyside2 in a venv of python |
| 19:17.24 | f8e4 | which yields the error if env QT_DEBUG_PLUGINS is set |
| 19:18.26 | f8e4 | ratrace: https://bpa.st/GW4Q |
| 19:18.30 | f8e4 | you think i can fix this? |
| 19:18.51 | f8e4 | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:19.03 | f8e4 | debian + xfce4 here |
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| 19:19.19 | ratrace | and where did you get python3.8 for the venv... is this debian stable even? |
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| 19:20.01 | ratrace | eek it wants to uninstall kernel .... |
| 19:20.04 | xernus | Hi! During pxe install i would like to build a firstrun script to run on first root but it seems that /etc/init.d/firstrun is no longer there. I read some systemd firstboot stuff that needs to sleep for a while to be sure boot is done etc.. seems hackish. isnt there a nice way to ask the user a question on first boot? |
| 19:21.28 | f8e4 | ratrace it was all synaptic!!! |
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| 19:21.57 | ratrace | f8e4: what apt command causes that output? |
| 19:23.01 | f8e4 | ratrace sudo apt upgrade |
| 19:23.28 | f8e4 | Hit:1 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster InRelease |
| 19:24.02 | ratrace | f8e4: and what did you do before that? look into /var/log/apt/history.log |
| 19:24.28 | f8e4 | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:24.48 | f8e4 | for reinstall |
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| 19:26.03 | f8e4 | how to reinstall this: https://bpa.st/SG2Q |
| 19:26.06 | ratrace | that's a rather imporant lib .... when I try it, it doesn't want to remove the kernel ... but then I had a very base install atop of which I put xorg and i3-wm |
| 19:26.55 | ratrace | f8e4: tasksel install task-xfce-desktop |
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| 19:27.38 | ratrace | eh, without task- tasksel install xfce-desktop |
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| 19:33.22 | f8e4 | back via tty1, tty7 is frozen |
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| 19:33.36 | f8e4 | (since i started the task) |
| 19:34.16 | ratrace | you definitely should consider xorg dead or turned off for that task |
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| 19:34.40 | f8e4 | should i try restart |
| 19:34.49 | ratrace | frankly, I'd "telinit 3" aka systemctl isolate multi-user.target |
| 19:35.24 | ratrace | f8e4: if you had half-assed upgrade there and packages removed, I wouldn0t reboot if I wre you |
| 19:35.31 | ratrace | especially since that wanted kernel removed |
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| 19:37.05 | f8e4 | aye ty; will backup and refeature |
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| 19:39.16 | f8e4 | do i need a xfce at all? |
| 19:39.26 | f8e4 | how to use chromium or intellij then |
| 19:39.50 | greycat | some of us just use a normal window manager, rather than a desktop environment |
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| 19:47.56 | jim | which wms are normal? |
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| 19:48.24 | greycat | anything that ends with "wm" and isn't part of a GNOME subproject |
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| 19:49.02 | greycat | some that end with "box" may also be acceptable |
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| 19:52.53 | ratrace | I use i3-wm. that's a normal window manager. :) |
| 19:53.46 | reicode | Yes, that's awesome wm |
| 19:54.16 | ratrace | that0s..... aw.... oooh, I see what you did there :) |
| 19:54.43 | pasiz | i liked i3 idea, but applications are not designed to work well with forced tiling |
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| 19:56.22 | ratrace | pasiz: you can configure overrides. eg, I force steam to float because it's not good otherwise |
| 19:56.34 | ratrace | using wm class, so it's not perfect, but it works |
| 19:57.37 | xikuuky | I just installed awesome wm and have been trying to rice it, I love it |
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| 19:58.23 | mutante | what does "to rice" it mean as a verb? is that from car tuning language? |
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| 19:58.58 | xikuuky | mutante: I would assume so |
| 19:58.59 | greycat | It's a semi-racist derogatory term used to refer to people who put a spoiler on a Honda Civic, and stuff like that. |
| 19:59.09 | greycat | maybe more than semi- |
| 19:59.29 | mutante | that's what I was thinking of but then how does it apply to a wm:) thanks for confirming |
| 19:59.32 | xikuuky | it's a racist term? my apologies |
| 19:59.39 | ratrace | HOWS THAT RACISS! |
| 19:59.45 | ratrace | what! |
| 20:00.06 | greycat | It's implying that only Japanese people do this, and "ricer" is being used to mean Japanese. |
| 20:00.08 | mutante | I was just curious how the wm is Asian. |
| 20:00.17 | ratrace | uhhhh what? no |
| 20:00.29 | f8e4 | how to scroll up in temrinal? |
| 20:00.35 | xikuuky | mutante: I usually seen it used as meaning to do a full configuration replacing as much as possible/wanted/idk |
| 20:00.35 | greycat | that's how it was explained to me ~15 years ago when the term first came up |
| 20:00.37 | mutante | f8e4: PgUp key |
| 20:00.44 | greycat | shift-pgup usually |
| 20:01.00 | greycat | but if you're on the Linux console, you can't any more, because it was taken away because of some wacko security thing |
| 20:01.21 | ratrace | no, ricing is not "rice" (asia) is't from "race" .... bad pronounciation of "racing" ... |
| 20:01.21 | mutante | I just knew "ricer" and not a native speaker and was like "wtf, is that now a generic term for 'hacking'" |
| 20:01.23 | xikuuky | shift-pgup works for me |
| 20:01.35 | f8e4 | neither. ok |
| 20:02.02 | ratrace | and if you want to use race in there.... it's us white trash doin' that to them caws. |
| 20:02.26 | mutante | I like rice. |
| 20:02.51 | greycat | https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ricer |
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| 20:03.42 | ratrace | [citation needed] |
| 20:03.51 | xikuuky | greycat: i've never heard the word used that way ever.. |
| 20:04.02 | greycat | that's how it was explained to me 15 years ago |
| 20:04.20 | greycat | and apparently whoever wrote that entry for wiktionary heard the same things I did |
| 20:04.45 | *** part/#debian reicode (~rei@77.40.61.214) |
| 20:04.49 | ratrace | they heard wrong |
| 20:05.03 | xikuuky | funny enough though, the first entry about collecting rice happens to relate to the zoom class i'm in now |
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| 20:05.21 | ratrace | disclaimer: I'm a gentooligan, I know the "gentoo ricer" term, had the ringside seat for many years. "riced" them CPUFLAGs myself even :) |
| 20:05.52 | greycat | There was a web site that made fun of Gentoo users, calling them "ricers", and had a picture of a car with ridiculous bolt-on spoilers and stuff. I believe it was called funroll or something, after the Gentoo user habit of using gcc flags like "-f unroll loops". |
| 20:06.17 | xikuuky | greycat: that's kinda funny as someone who used to run gentoo |
| 20:07.15 | ratrace | greycat: yes, this: https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/by-others/funroll-loops/Gentoo-is-Rice.html |
| 20:07.35 | greycat | yeah, just found that |
| 20:07.49 | greycat | https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/by-others/funroll-loops/ points to it |
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| 20:10.01 | xikuuky | that's hilarious |
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| 20:12.17 | f8e4 | external hdd is not recognized on fdisk any chances? |
| 20:12.38 | mutante | f8e4: external means USB? |
| 20:12.40 | epsilon | what's an elegant way to check if any mounted filesystem is running full? Like detect any mount over 90% usage. I wrote a backup script, but want to run some pre checks on system health including a full filesystem |
| 20:12.52 | f8e4 | mutante it is a perfect dos table; yes |
| 20:13.43 | mutante | f8e4: I just mean what kind of cable is it connected with. USB or some other standard like eSATA or whatnot |
| 20:13.55 | f8e4 | usb3.0 on usb2.0 port |
| 20:14.18 | mutante | f8e4: then I would try "lsusb" to see if it gets detected there |
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| 20:50.32 | bint | hi there |
| 20:50.42 | mutante | sup |
| 20:50.50 | bint | i think i opened a screen or tmux session but i dont know what user i used to open it |
| 20:51.04 | bint | is there a way to see wether there is an open session on any user? |
| 20:52.12 | mutante | bint: become root and "screen -x" and if there is more than one it lists them |
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| 20:52.32 | mutante | not sure about tmux, but "ps aux | grep tmux" ? |
| 20:52.42 | ratrace | yeah grep the process list |
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| 20:56.32 | bint | oh thx |
| 20:56.33 | bint | will try |
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| 20:57.52 | bint | here we go! thx :) sinusbot 22967 0.0 0.2 10284 4612 ? Ss Aug31 5:48 tmux new -s sinusbot root 29021 0.0 0.0 6156 896 pts/0 R+ 21:57 0:00 grep tmux |
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| 21:12.49 | wisbit | hey everyone, do you nguys have any good recommendation for a graphic novels server that would run well on debian, something specific to graphic novels that would recognise series |
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| 21:13.04 | wisbit | sorry if it's not the right channel but I ma not sure where else |
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| 21:14.10 | f8e4 | folks, what window manager do you recommend? |
| 21:14.43 | sney | that sounds like a job for some kind of php app, there probably isn't anything packaged directly, but just make sure you find something that doesn't require weird/bleeding-edge versions of the relevant web stack. |
| 21:14.56 | unixbsd | ratrace: hi ratrace. |
| 21:15.12 | f8e4 | what i expect (coming from xfce4): shortcuts to place window into corners, and some launchbar with a few buttons maybe |
| 21:15.15 | unixbsd | do you think that some debian server may offer hosting, little bit of space ? |
| 21:15.17 | Brigo | f8e4, you better try by yourself. |
| 21:15.23 | n4dir | f8e4: i'd say you first make up your mind if you care for a tiling one or the other one, stacked or how they call it. |
| 21:15.32 | n4dir | then i'd say it doesn't really matter anymore |
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| 21:15.59 | f8e4 | please what is the mainstream stable standard welld ocumented can google a lot one |
| 21:16.05 | n4dir | fvwm is sure cool, as hardly anyone uses it. or ... window-maker |
| 21:16.26 | n4dir | f8e4: openbox was heavily used for quite some time, hence lots of google results |
| 21:16.30 | f8e4 | wiki.debian.org/WindowManager lists a lot |
| 21:16.59 | gnat_x | f8e4: openbox is what lxde is based on iirc, if you want a little more environment stuff. |
| 21:17.02 | unixbsd | ratrace: you think that some debian server may offer hosting, little bit of space ? |
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| 21:17.30 | sney | I pay $5/mo for a debian server that has hosting and space :P |
| 21:17.35 | f8e4 | gnat_x: coming from xfce4 ligthdm; just done with the buggy ui and all that bs setup |
| 21:17.43 | f8e4 | sney +1 |
| 21:17.58 | n4dir | xfce is buggy? |
| 21:18.22 | unixbsd | sney: we need to pay? man, what about if we have only packages debs on it? can or could it be free? |
| 21:18.36 | f8e4 | n4dir, is the best imo, light & clean but still bugs (like any other) |
| 21:18.43 | sney | unixbsd: your question doesn't make sense. |
| 21:19.10 | unixbsd | if it is opensource packages, and for debian only (mirror or...) i.e. some good opensource reasons... |
| 21:19.14 | f8e4 | n4dir what you use? |
| 21:19.45 | n4dir | right now i use e16, but i am not much in WM's. To me they are all the same. command-prompt to open apps, and thats about it |
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| 21:20.04 | n4dir | i used openbox for quite a while. You sure will find good info about it, all over the internet |
| 21:20.12 | quadrathoch2 | unixbsd if you want to have a deb repo, look into the openbuildservice by opensuse (they offer for a lot of distros) for free |
| 21:20.20 | ratrace | unixbsd: what kind of hosting? |
| 21:20.42 | n4dir | as gnat_x said: lxde might add some extra comfort to openbox (as far it's me not enough to use it, but worth a try) |
| 21:21.03 | unixbsd | ratrace: my devuan packages + stable debian deb. |
| 21:21.08 | n4dir | i hope that is enough "opinion". |
| 21:21.28 | f8e4 | n4dir: aye ty; |
| 21:21.35 | n4dir | good luck then, fun and all that |
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| 21:23.01 | ratrace | unixbsd: github |
| 21:26.50 | unixbsd | well :( |
| 21:26.51 | unixbsd | thanks |
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| 21:40.58 | ratrace | unixbsd: not sure what you were expecting from me :) |
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| 21:46.41 | f8e4 | freebies, candy, santaclause |
| 21:46.52 | f8e4 | but mostly a pad on the back |
| 21:46.58 | f8e4 | pads unixbsd |
| 21:48.02 | f8e4 | ratrace what desktop env / windowmanger are you using? |
| 21:48.09 | f8e4 | or even display manager. i dunno |
| 21:48.32 | f8e4 | i have trackpoint on keyboard so np with mouse; so i wonder |
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| 21:53.29 | ratrace | f8e4: i3-wm |
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| 22:00.02 | Fromhell | hallo need help |
| 22:00.30 | alex11 | just ask your question |
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| 22:02.29 | Fromhell | alex11 have problrm |
| 22:02.30 | Fromhell | This version of ownCloud is not compatible with PHP 7.3 |
| 22:02.30 | Fromhell | You are currently running PHP 7.3.19-1~deb10u1. |
| 22:03.03 | Brigo | and the question? |
| 22:03.13 | ratrace | "how to fix" |
| 22:03.56 | Brigo | installing the right owncloud version or the right php version, i guess ... |
| 22:04.07 | ratrace | Fromhell: what's "this version" of ownCloud, and what PHP does it want or expecT? |
| 22:04.49 | Fromhell | ratrace what i must do ? |
| 22:05.02 | ratrace | you must answer the questions here first :) |
| 22:05.25 | Brigo | ,v php |
| 22:05.26 | judd | Package: php on amd64 -- stretch: 1:7.0+49; buster: 2:7.3+69; bullseye: 2:7.4+76; sid: 2:7.4+76 |
| 22:05.46 | ratrace | but I'll save you the time and money and pre-empt a guess.... install proper version of ownCloud for the PHP packaged in Buster. as that's an external, third party software, it's not supported here, sorry. |
| 22:06.04 | Fromhell | php -v |
| 22:06.05 | Fromhell | PHP 7.3.19-1~deb10u1 (cli) (built: Jul 5 2020 06:46:45) ( NTS ) |
| 22:06.05 | Fromhell | Copyright (c) 1997-2018 The PHP Group |
| 22:06.05 | Fromhell | Zend Engine v3.3.19, Copyright (c) 1998-2018 Zend Technologies |
| 22:06.05 | Fromhell | <PROTECTED> |
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| 22:06.11 | ratrace | what a plonker |
| 22:06.16 | Brigo | it is not the actual buster version, it looks like ... |
| 22:06.37 | Brigo | XD |
| 22:06.59 | ratrace | tht version is buster. |
| 22:07.03 | dvs | Brigo: You XD too much! ;-P |
| 22:07.10 | ratrace | ,v php7.3-common |
| 22:07.11 | judd | Package: php7.3-common on amd64 -- buster: 7.3.19-1~deb10u1; buster-security: 7.3.19-1~deb10u1 |
| 22:09.16 | Brigo | thats awkward |
| 22:10.06 | Brigo | i think he didn't know owncloud is already in buster. |
| 22:10.36 | ratrace | is it? |
| 22:10.50 | ratrace | various client things, but I don't see teh server |
| 22:11.51 | Brigo | ratrace, you are right, let's check the tracker |
| 22:12.31 | Brigo | it is not since 2016: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/owncloud |
| 22:13.20 | Brigo | , v owncloud |
| 22:13.21 | judd | No package named 'owncloud' was found in amd64. |
| 22:15.00 | ratrace | dpkg: why is owncloud not in testing |
| 22:15.00 | dpkg | owncloud is not in testing for the reasons listed in https://qa.debian.org/excuses.php?package=owncloud |
| 22:15.10 | ratrace | mmh |
| 22:15.16 | ratrace | https://tracker.debian.org/news/762074/owncloud-removed-from-testing/ |
| 22:16.04 | BCMM | huh, looks like they gave up packaging it due to upstream's hostility |
| 22:16.39 | ratrace | figures |
| 22:16.52 | BCMM | but that was just a few months before nextcloud started up. wonder why they didn't just adapt the existing packaging work for nextcloud... |
| 22:16.56 | greycat | https://doc.owncloud.com/server/admin_manual/installation/system_requirements.html says they support PHP versions 7.2, 7.3 and 7.4 |
| 22:17.18 | greycat | so I'm guessing fromhell didn't do it right |
| 22:17.48 | ratrace | OR ... that cloud thing is so stupid, it failed to parse due to -1~deb10u1 addition in the version |
| 22:17.58 | ratrace | puts 4⬠toward that option |
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| 22:21.22 | x91 | hi, does anyone know if this is the correct channel to talk about the debian docker image? |
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| 22:21.46 | BCMM | ah, looks like this is one of those things where upstream does not approve of Debian Stable as a concept and just wants users to get updated versions as soon as possible. possibly the same for the new project too... |
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| 22:23.20 | greycat | 17:02 Fromhell> This version of ownCloud is not compatible with PHP 7.3 |
| 22:23.23 | Brigo | x91, i don't think so. Maybe debian-devel? |
| 22:23.30 | greycat | It seems to have parsed the 7.3 part. |
| 22:23.35 | ratrace | BCMM: no no, owncloud -> nextcloud drama was about licensing |
| 22:23.44 | greycat | He probably grabbed a super old version, or a super experimental version. |
| 22:24.00 | x91 | Brigo: thx |
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| 22:24.09 | Brigo | x91, np. |
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| 22:25.00 | BCMM | ratrace: was talking about the separate but related drama of owncloud being removed from Debian |
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| 22:25.39 | ratrace | BCMM: I think it's all part of the same drama cooked up by owncloud devs |
| 22:26.07 | BCMM | a forum post suggests that the same people who didn't want owncloud in debian (or stable distros in general) are running nextcloud, but i don't really know enough about the situation to asses how true that is |
| 22:26.15 | ratrace | basically their closing up of plugins, license changes made that unfit for dfsg |
| 22:26.38 | ratrace | Bug #816376 |
| 22:26.39 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/816376 in ftp.debian.org (closed, upstream): «RM: owncloud -- ROM; PHP 7.0 Transition»; severity: normal; opened: 2016-03-01; last modified: 2016-05-25. |
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| 22:29.20 | ratrace | so, poor development that made packaging a nightmare, it seems.... |
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| 22:30.01 | BCMM | i thought they had, like, a community edition sort of thing with the same licence |
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| 22:33.01 | ratrace | iirc no, that's where the nextcloud fork happened. |
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| 22:40.57 | f8e4 | with i3wm do i need xfce4 ? or the login screen of lightdm |
| 22:41.48 | BCMM | f8e4: you don't need either of those, to use i3, no |
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| 22:42.26 | BCMM | whether you want to use a display manager is up to you |
| 22:42.52 | BCMM | also some people use the panel and so on from XFCE alongside a window manager like i3, but you don't have to |
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| 22:44.57 | ratrace | I'd recommend at least lightdm, I use that |
| 22:45.26 | ratrace | just don't startx.... it's not 1990, it's 2020. 2021 around teh corner with all its horrors it's got in store for us :) |
| 22:45.59 | phogg | what's wrong with startx? |
| 22:46.02 | dvs | clings onto fvwm |
| 22:46.14 | greycat | I use startx. It's supported, it's commonly used, and it *works*. |
| 22:46.19 | phogg | other than the "it doesn't use a consistent tty any more" bug, which is trivial to fix |
| 22:46.32 | greycat | Many configurations are far, far simpler with startx because you can use your .bash_profile or whatever. Can't do that as easily with a DM login. |
| 22:46.58 | phogg | startx itself is not very pretty, so I am OK if you want to use a different CLI X launcher. But to suggest that GUI login is modern and CLI X launching is not is... not accurate. |
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| 22:47.50 | greycat | I suspect there are quite a lot of Debian users who prefer startx over a DM. |
| 22:48.01 | phogg | go go gadget popcon? |
| 22:48.01 | x91 | startx is perfectly adequate |
| 22:48.09 | phogg | but it's all part of the X package, so we can't tell |
| 22:48.12 | greycat | it's not a separate package, so you can't popcon it |
| 22:48.49 | x91 | if you think its because its from 1990 FTP would like a word ;) |
| 22:49.04 | phogg | ftp isn't from 1990 |
| 22:49.10 | phogg | ftp is from closer to 1970 |
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| 22:49.31 | greycat | and FTP doesn't deserve words, other than profanity |
| 22:49.44 | phogg | it deserves one word: don't |
| 22:51.58 | BCMM | depends on how often you log in just to use the VT, i suppose |
| 22:52.14 | BCMM | if you're always going to start a graphical session anyway, might as well save the keystrokes and install a DM |
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| 22:58.00 | greycat | if you never want to do any customizations of your environment that can't be done in dash, then sure |
| 22:58.49 | BCMM | uh, what? |
| 22:59.09 | greycat | with startx, your login starts with a shell, a real one, which you can configure however you like |
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| 22:59.49 | greycat | with a DM, your login starts with a vanilla /bin/sh that reads some files in /etc/ and then reads some of your dot files, and you can only use sh syntax |
| 23:00.37 | BCMM | typing in `startx` every day seems like a really awkward way to avoid declaring a few environment variables in a standard way, but ok |
| 23:00.47 | greycat | you reboot every day? |
| 23:01.34 | BCMM | well you see, i turn my computer off sometimes, because sometimes i am asleep instead of using it |
| 23:01.46 | BCMM | i have other machines for always-on tasks |
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| 23:02.01 | BCMM | it's... not an unusual way of using a PC |
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| 23:24.10 | ratrace | and there's the security concerns of start'ing'x from shell |
| 23:25.05 | ratrace | there's no security boundary really, you can't properly do screen locking. crash xorg and the attacker is at your $SHELL |
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| 23:30.27 | gnat_x | i gave up startx a couple versions ago because i couldn't make it play nicely with policykit |
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| 23:44.19 | phogg | sounds like a good reason to get rid of policykit |
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| 23:52.27 | gnat_x | fair. though i think i decided that it was easier to switch to a dm than switch my window manager. |
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| 23:53.32 | gnat_x | and yes, if you use startx i would recommend `startx & exit` to close the shell when xorg crashes |
| 23:53.47 | phogg | or exec startx |
| 23:54.52 | gnat_x | ahh, yeah, just getting to the bottom of the thing i wrote about this (in 2012) |
| 23:55.45 | gnat_x | and i talk about switching to `exec startx` |
| 23:55.50 | ratrace | you can't get rid of polkit wihtout getting rid of the whole dbus concept too. or else you'd just have to reinvent polkit to fill in teh vacuum |
| 23:56.04 | gnat_x | it's been a while |
| 23:57.41 | phogg | ratrace: hey, now we're talking sense |
| 23:58.31 | ratrace | so, like, it's back to 1990s? |
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| 23:59.49 | phogg | You wouldn't have to go that far back. |