IRC log for #debian on 20201211

00:00.07HelloShittythe problem is that I'm not sure if settings are correct for this folder
00:00.15ratraceowner may read and write, group may read and every file created in the dir will inherit group ownership, ie debian-tor
00:00.26HelloShittyand when I run `tor --verify-config` I get a permission error
00:00.29ratrace(and thus be readable to users in the group)
00:00.33HelloShittyfor that folder
00:00.50ratracewell I'll admit I don't know tor's requirements there.... but the setup defo isn't insane
00:01.10HelloShittyAnd inside this folder are private keys of my bitcoin node onion address (I guess this is the correct wording)
00:01.32HelloShittyI'm not sure I want anyone else to be able to read in this folder
00:01.42HelloShittythis folder is owned by debian-tor
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00:02.02HelloShittyand I need to be part of that group so that my bitcoin core client can read from there.
00:02.08ratracethen don't put anyone in debian-tor group
00:02.47HelloShittyBut for some reason, when I run `tor --verify-config` I get that error about permissions
00:02.53HelloShittyI think it shouldn't be the case
00:03.06HelloShittybecause I'm part of debian-tor goup
00:03.23HelloShittyone other question I'm not completely sure about:
00:03.35mrkrampsyou guess this shit without a howto?!
00:04.25HelloShittyrunning (1) sudo systemctl restart tor is exactly the same as running (2) systemctl restart tor and then put the password in the prompt with that comes up?
00:04.56mrkrampsnope, sudo is using sudo and the other one relies on polkit
00:05.03HelloShittymrkramps: no. I'm following their docs, but I'm getting different results from expected ones
00:06.03HelloShittyso, when I reboot my laptop, tor starts itself, right?
00:06.09HelloShittyWho's the user who starts it?
00:06.25HelloShittyI mean, I think it's debian-tor
00:06.59HelloShittySo, when I run `tor --verify-config`I shouldn't have any permission issues because I am part ofdebian-tor group
00:07.54HelloShittybut I get a permission error. This is the problem I was trying to unerstand and workaround if possible without compromising even the basic security that tor gives me
00:08.26HelloShittyI'm going to logout an login again
00:08.28HelloShittybrb
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00:12.49HelloShittyratrace: see: Dec 11 00:10:57.174 [warn] Directory /var/lib/tor/btc-service cannot be read: Permission denied.... <-- This is running `tor --verify-config` from my own username which is part of debian-tor group
00:13.24mrkrampslink to documentation?
00:13.28ratraceHelloShitty: what's the permissions on the actual file in the dir?
00:13.45HelloShittyAnd I'm not sure I can set read for that folder without compromising
00:13.50HelloShittyratrace: docs: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Setting_up_a_Tor_hidden_service
00:14.19HelloShittyI've been trying to use Method 2 at the bottom of that link ratrace
00:14.54ratraceHelloShitty: so you didn't set g+r on the dir?
00:15.18HelloShittydrwx--S---  2 debian-tor debian-tor 4.0K Dec 10 23:21 btc-service
00:15.19ratracefew moments ago you showed  drwxr-S---
00:15.22HelloShittyno, not yet
00:15.26ratraceHelloShitty: well duh!
00:16.04HelloShittyratrace: I understand that. But docs never mention any changes in permissions and I didn't want to do anything out of the docs
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00:16.12HelloShittybut I will try
00:16.12mrkrampsthe docs say nothing about file permissions
00:16.33HelloShittymrkramps: indeed, so I shouldn't be supposed to mess with them
00:16.50lindylexTrying to find where this is located commandline  "gphoto2://Apple_Inc._iPhone_7fca57bb6eb3da01ca3ba3c5b1f2b393e83e8011/DCIM"
00:16.50ratraceHelloShitty: then you have to enumerate what user (effective uid/gid) is actually trying to access it. so far I thought it was your user, in the debian-tor group
00:16.56HelloShittymeaning that whatever it is there by default, should be ok
00:17.09mrkrampsyeah
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00:18.05HelloShittyratrace: yes, that's what docs say. That the user running bitcoin core shoul be in the group that is running Tor
00:18.21HelloShittyThey mention the step to add the user to debian-tor group
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00:19.03HelloShittyratrace: what you mean by 'enumerate'?
00:19.07ratraceHelloShitty: okay. But I don't understand the  use case there, I don't use tor so I don't know how that dir comes into play.
00:19.18mrkrampsok, then user can do what group tor can, but group to cannot do what user can do
00:19.29ratraceHelloShitty: I mean... you have to figure out which uid/gid is actually accessing the file. your user, some other service, what...
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00:19.41ratracebecaues your user does NOT have permission to anything in that dir
00:19.58ratraceyou may be in the debian-tor group, but the permission does not allow read access into the dir, to the group
00:20.09HelloShittyok, I understand
00:20.15ratraceI forgot if 's' implies 'x' too or you have to explicitly add it
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00:20.48mrkramps's' implies 'x' ... 'S' does not
00:20.51HelloShittyFrom what I read, the folder needs to be "executable" for that bit 's' to take effect, otherwise it is set as 'S'
00:21.04HelloShittymrkramps: well said. That's it
00:21.22ratracethe setgid is there so that if, say, root creates a file there, it would automagically be owned by root:debian-tor, and with default umask which allows the group to read, your user can read files creatd by root there
00:21.41HelloShittyok
00:21.45HelloShittygoing to do that then
00:22.32ratracethat pattern is not unusual for high-security environments.   usualyl it's root owned so nobody but root could alter, and group is there to allow reading of contents
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00:22.50ratraceand you define who may read with group membership
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00:23.16ratrace(there's also ACLs and thaen you have a mess )
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00:27.45HelloShitty:|
00:28.07HelloShittyI'm just going to try to change things for that specific folder
00:28.29HelloShittyactually I created a test file there, and I'm playing around to make sure I'm oing things correctly
00:28.46HelloShittywrst case scenario I just delete the folder and re-create it with tor
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00:30.35HelloShittyso, I did this: sudo chmod 2710 /var/lib/tor/btc-service
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00:30.59carlino3hello!
00:31.33carlino3i tried KDE plasma on arch and i loved it
00:31.40carlino3do you think it is a good idea to install it on debian buster?
00:31.47ratraceTIAS
00:31.48HelloShittyand got this with `ls -lah /var/lib/tor/btc-service`:
00:31.49HelloShitty$ ls -lah /var/lib/tor/btc-service
00:31.49HelloShittylstanley: cannot access '/var/lib/tor/btc-service': Permission denied
00:32.24ratraceHelloShitty: right, so what are permissions on the last two elements of that path?
00:32.25Brigo!TIAS
00:32.25dpkgTIAS is "Try It And See".
00:32.37sneycarlino3: yes, kde plasma has been one of the main desktops available in debian for at least 5 years now. if you already have a buster system, try 'apt install task-kde-desktop'.
00:32.58carlino3"try it without knowing if it will break anything and then cry if you screw up something"
00:33.05carlino3that is what i'm trying to avoid lol
00:33.21HelloShittyratrace: last 2 elements? .../tor/btc-service ?
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00:33.31ratracecarlino3: in general, software available in a Stable release has been tested for majority of use cases
00:33.34ratraceHelloShitty: yes
00:33.38carlino3sney: thanks, so i think i will do it
00:33.39sneycarlino3: that kind of problem is more common in arch land. one of debian's main goals is making sure stuff isn't broken out of the box.
00:33.48ratraceHelloShitty: i'm assumig /var and /var/lib are regular  755
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00:34.19carlino3great! thanks to all
00:34.28sneynp
00:34.28HelloShittyratrace: drwx--S---  5 debian-tor    debian-tor    4.0K Dec 11 00:32 tor
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00:35.02HelloShittydrwxr-xr-x 52 root root  4.0K Dec  6 20:32 lib
00:35.19ratraceyou _still_ have no permission to read into /var/lib/tor
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00:35.25HelloShittyso, I need to make it also 's' to toe
00:35.27HelloShittytor
00:35.42ratraceyes and +r
00:36.03ratracethe group must be able to read and "execute" the dir
00:36.18HelloShittyoh, ok
00:36.19mrkrampsdrwxr-s---
00:36.25ratracealso important is the permission on the last element, I'm assuming it's a file
00:36.57HelloShittydrwxr-s---  5 debian-tor    debian-tor    4.0K Dec 11 00:36 tor
00:37.04ratracesetgit and bad umask can render it invisible to your user
00:37.13HelloShittyratrace: yes, after .../btc-service/ is hostname file
00:37.15ratrace*setgid      HelloShitty no, "btc-service" was last
00:37.31ratraceand whats permissions on btc-service
00:37.43ratracewhen you access a file like that... ALL elements of a path are checked for permission
00:37.58HelloShittydrwxr-s---  2 debian-tor debian-tor 4.0K Dec 10 23:21 btc-service
00:38.14ratracesee that's sane. and files inside?
00:38.33HelloShitty-rw------- 1 debian-tor debian-tor   23 Dec 10 23:21 hostname
00:38.47HelloShittythat's inside btc-service
00:38.55ratraceyea that's invisible to your user
00:39.07ratraceonly debian-tor USER can read it (and write it), but the group has no access
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00:39.16ratraceyour user, in debian-tor group, cannot access / read that file
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00:39.40HelloShittyok
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00:39.55ratraceso chmod g+rs /var/lib/tor
00:40.00HelloShittywill try to change it to see if `tor verify-config` returns success
00:40.12ratraceand chmod g+r /var/lib/tor/..../hostname
00:40.24HelloShittyyeah
00:42.38HelloShittyok, no good still
00:42.58HelloShittyDec 11 00:41:51.447 [warn] /var/lib/tor/btc-service is not owned by this user (psysc0rpi0n, 1000) but by debian-tor (116). Perhaps you are running Tor as the wrong user?
00:43.24HelloShittyIt still says that my user is not the same user that is running tor
00:43.41HelloShittyanyway, this might not be problematic
00:43.47ratraceno, the other way around
00:44.19ratraceit says the file is not owned by the user running tor ..... although ti's a _warning_ ... dunno if that's suppose to be an error or not
00:44.31ratraceI don't use tor so I can't tell you what it expects
00:44.53mrkrampstor only checks for owner
00:44.53HelloShittyyes, but after that line there are 2 more lines
00:44.54HelloShittyDec 11 00:41:51.447 [warn] Failed to parse/validate config: Failed to configure rendezvous options. See logs for details.
00:44.57HelloShittyDec 11 00:41:51.447 [err] Reading config failed--see warnings above.
00:45.18ratracethat sounds like a completely separate issue :)
00:45.35HelloShittyIs it possible to run this 'tor --verify-config` command as debian-tor instead of my user?
00:45.48ratracesudo -iu debian-tor tor --verify-config
00:45.49mrkrampsHelloShitty, do you have a local torrc for your user?
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00:46.15HelloShittymrkramps: no, torrc is the default one in /etc/tor/torrc
00:46.24HelloShittygoing to try ratrace
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00:47.14HelloShittywell, can't see no output with that command, ratrace
00:47.59ratraceis there a --verbose flag?
00:48.27HelloShittyI set tor to send some output to a notices.log file
00:48.31HelloShittylet me see if I can find it
00:50.17HelloShittyI can't see any errors in this file. But I think this is not the most critical file.There is a debug one that has tons of stuff and it's really really verbosy
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00:50.32HelloShittyand they say to not use it because it leaks lots of information
00:53.24HelloShittywell, will give up for today
00:53.29HelloShittytime to go to sleep
00:53.43HelloShittythank you ratrace and mrkramps for the help given so far
00:53.52ratracenp
00:54.10mrkrampsyou're welcome
00:54.19HelloShittyo/
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01:08.46f8e4folks is true?: instead of make install; checkinstall ?
01:08.54f8e4i keep the repo around anyway
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01:09.05f8e4make clean; then i can always make uninstall it right?
01:10.19ratraceENOCONTEXT
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01:11.03f8e4for git clone https://github.com/vim/vim
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01:11.47ratracedepends on particular Makefile. not all of them are neat and tidy or offer the uninstall target
01:13.43f8e4,v checkinstall
01:13.44juddPackage: checkinstall on amd64 -- jessie: 1.6.2-4; stretch: 1.6.2-4; buster-backports: 1.6.2+git20170426.d24a630-2~bpo10+1; bullseye: 1.6.2+git20170426.d24a630-2; sid: 1.6.2+git20170426.d24a630-2
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01:14.02f8e4unable to locate ..
01:14.33f8e4backports how to get them
01:16.10f8e4mmh use it at all; how to pkg simply
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01:18.35f8e4got it;
01:18.55f8e4but use it or not; what you recomend for github stuff after make ?
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01:19.46sneycheckinstall can sometimes produce a working deb package from a given source tree. afaik it requires autotools, and a lot of projects are moving away from autotools to use stuff like meson or ninja instead
01:20.48sneyI've never really bothered with it. /usr/local stuff is easily managed with stow (see /msg dpkg stow usage) and if I'm going to make a debian package, I'll make a real debian package
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01:23.23f8e4nice; is .../stow/program-version literal?
01:23.39f8e4or like stow/vim_v213
01:23.43sneythe latter
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01:31.16f8e4sney this is LEGGIT!
01:32.14sneyyeah it's pretty handy
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01:41.36alex11i still have to figure out how to use stow
01:41.41alex11i feel very stupid
01:42.23sneyit's pretty straightforward if you're used to the ./configure;make;make install workflow. especially if you've ever adjusted the prefix or any of the other ./configure options.
01:42.38sneyoutside of that it's probably not very intuitive
01:51.18f8e4where to put a ready built ide; eg intellij with its intel.sh start script?
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01:52.42sney3rd party stuff that works with the FHS goes in /usr/local; 3rd party stuff that doesn't work with the FHS and wants everything in 1 big directory goes to the /opt gulag.
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01:53.12sneyand then you symlink the start binary to somewhere in $PATH. it depends on what the program is. try stuff until it works.
01:53.13carlino3so i installed kde plasma on debian buster
01:53.52sneyprepares the "why is everything old" faq link
01:54.54carlino3in the process i was asked about what greeter to use, sddm or the one that comes with debian
01:55.30carlino3i left the default and nothing has changed, i can't see any option to use KDE in login screen. what should i do?
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01:57.25sneythere is an option in gdm3 to select the session. I don't use gdm3 so I don't know where it is, but there should be a drop down, either below the password field or in one of the corners
01:58.10sneyah, according to google, there's a gear menu next to the 'sign in' button that should have it.
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01:58.38carlino3sney i found it. the gear icon, difficult to find
01:58.39carlino3thanks!
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02:26.24PipeItToDevNull#debian-live is dead, so I will ask here for general ideas. I made a ISO using live-build but it fails to load a graphical interface on a Ryzen 3700x + 2070 super system, even with `nomodeset`. Is there a package or something I can add to this ISO so it works better on Ryzen/new GPUs?
02:26.58sneyprobably a 5.8 or newer kernel, + firmware-amd-graphics
02:27.38sneyit's not unusual for buster-only systems to choke on ryzen hardware. backports/testing+ seems to be ok, on the other hand
02:30.46PipeItToDevNullDo you think moving to testing/sid would be fine for this?
02:31.00PipeItToDevNullIt is a tool I am making for rescuing, just some basic tools
02:31.29sneythe testing freeze is in less than a month, so yes, it's pretty usable in its current state.
02:32.05sneyon the other hand, kernel packages are self-contained, and firmware blobs just need to be found in /lib/firmware to work.
02:32.26sneyso it's your call - use a buster-based live image with the upgraded kernel and firmware, or upgrade everything.
02:34.17PipeItToDevNullI am checking on adding the mods first, before moving testing
02:34.43sney!buster-backports
02:34.43dpkgSome packages intended for Bullseye (Debian 11) but recompiled for use with Buster (Debian 10) can be found in the buster-backports repository. See http://backports.debian.org/Instructions/ . Ask me about <bdo>, <backports>.
02:37.33PipeItToDevNullmeh, sid is one line and seems easier right now lol
02:37.43PipeItToDevNullOnce 11 is out I can recompile
02:38.28sneythey say the best thing about using sid is, when it breaks, you get to keep all the pieces
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02:38.49PipeItToDevNulllol, I have a stack running on sid because it has deluge 2.3
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03:13.11quadrathoch2oO because of 1 package running sid
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03:14.32ectospasmI stopped running sid when the powers that were decided to rebase the entire Haskell subsystem.  I couldn't update my XMonad configuration for a month!
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03:19.35PipeItToDevNulluga, live-build didnt respect the --distribution flag
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05:00.34PipeItToDevNullI dont see the kernel, linux-base, in backports
05:00.44PipeItToDevNullhttps://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=linux-base&searchon=names&section=all&suite=buster-backports
05:02.32jmcnaughthttps://packages.debian.org/buster-backports/linux-image-amd64
05:03.18PipeItToDevNullYeah, thanks, I just found that
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08:42.24humahow do i find out what build options are used for a particular package?
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08:45.41humavery easy in arch: https://github.com/archlinux/svntogit-packages/blob/packages/ruby/trunk/PKGBUILD
08:46.43humabut not sure about how debian does it: https://packages.debian.org/buster/ruby2.5
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08:58.10Haohmaruwouldn't that be in the source package?
08:58.17Haohmaruor dev package
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09:15.13humaHaohmaru: got it. it's in the rules file: https://salsa.debian.org/ruby-team/ruby/-/blob/master/debian/rules
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09:17.45humaand build dependencies can be seen in a .dsc file: http://deb.debian.org/debian/pool/main/r/ruby2.5/ruby2.5_2.5.5-3+deb10u3.dsc
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09:22.38jsyncMaybe you like "continent" & #youtube in the #wb "matrix" channel.
09:23.26jsyncMaybe you like civil conduct & #DoD in #youtube channel.
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09:25.48jsyncYou need innovation & time to think about things.
09:26.46ratracewth was that
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09:28.04jsync"Troll" is an ethnicity.
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09:29.10JustASlackerwasnt there an easy way to get different python versions running?
09:29.13JustASlackeron debian 9
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09:30.36JustASlackerthink it was pyenv
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09:30.54ratracecontainers
09:31.27jsyncMaybe you like Technological functionality. I am Tribal Mayan. I am "Right".
09:32.20jsync"Suggestion".
09:33.31ratrace!ops ^^^  chatbot
09:33.31dpkgHydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall, bremner: ratrace complains about a problem (see above)
09:34.14jsyncI am too smart for my own good. I gave american government time to think.
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09:34.47jsync#2525 & #232232
09:34.48juddBug https://bugs.debian.org/232232 in roxen3 (closed, fixed, l10n, patch): «[INTL:nl] dutch po-debconf translation»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2004-02-11; last modified: 2005-05-07.
09:35.06ratraceoh good, now the bots are talking to each other
09:36.01jsyncDo you like technological compatibility? 32 Bit & 64 bit could be important.
09:36.19jsyncMSIGAMING
09:36.31jsyncTwitter.
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09:37.02jsynchttps://twitter.com/Zeus_Juez
09:37.28jsyncFriendly.
09:37.54jsynchttps://twitter.com/Dis_Align
09:38.09jsyncMaybe you like to read.
09:38.10nikojsync: Could you stop this garbage ?
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09:38.43ratraceit's a chatbot, requires some spanking by an op
09:39.13jsyncFind "Apollo Juez" within youtube, for a hint.
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09:39.46nikowell, if none are around i will step in
09:40.38jsynchttps://www.facebook.com/jason.skott.hughes.77
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09:41.39ratracethanks
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10:34.42solrizethis is probably wrong place to ask (suggestions welcome) but if i want to 3d-print something, is there a decent FOSS cad program for that?  preferably already in debian repo.  very simple thing, a vacuum hose diameter adapter (two cylinders joined together), shouldn't need anything fancy.  thanks
10:38.01azeemsolrize: how about freecad?
10:38.12azeemI've seen it mentioned in the 3d printing context I believe
10:38.25azeembut I've never used it
10:38.56nkuttlersolrize: openscad could also interest you
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10:49.31solrizethanks, will check
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10:53.49solrizewow, installed openscad (it's way smaller than freecad) and it looks impressive at first glance.  will play with it tomorrow and also with freecad.  thanks again!!  openscad can do stl export so that is a good sign.  and it looks like you design the gizmo as pieces of code rather than with a gui, which is nice for someone like me
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11:07.37kombistruggeling to get certbot on 10.6 even when installed via snap. What might I be missing?
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11:11.12vltHello. I’m using nodm and its default configuration (NODM_USER=user, NODM_FIRST_VT=7, NODM_XSESSION=/etc/X11/Xsession). How can I get a second X session on VT8 and run a different command there than what I have in /home/user/.xsessionrc?
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11:20.40ikoniahopefully it's acceptable to ask a question about the buster arm build
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11:21.47ikoniaI've just booted it on the pi4b, tried to apt update and I get the error "the value buster is invalid for apt:degault-release as such a release is not available in the sources
11:22.19ikonianormally you get this when apt.conf has a nonsense default value, but buster should be fine and is in the sources.list
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11:22.33ikoniais there something a bit different about the arm repo ?
11:23.04ikoniaahhh wait
11:23.19ikoniaclock drift
11:23.22ikoniasorry
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11:24.28OnepamopaGuys, is there a way to determine which core and thread are a "pair"? I need this in order to set taskset cpuset properly. The processor is TR 3960x with 8 CCDs each with 3 cores/threads. lscpu reports: On-line CPU(s) list: 0-47; Thread(s) per core: 2; Core(s) per socket: 24; Socket(s): 1; NUMA node(s): 1
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11:29.55HaohmaruOnepamopa \o/
11:30.07Onepamopa?
11:30.13Haohmaruko staa ;P~
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11:31.28Haohmaru== antto
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12:30.28f8e4hi, is it safe to wrap chromium.sh with chromium_custom.sh and add --flags ?
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12:39.55ratrace"safe" from what?
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12:40.27ratraceI don't see why you couldn't execute chromium from a custom script of your own
12:43.55f8e4like the default launcher button should run the custom version with flags
12:44.11f8e4default app: chromium; but cannot set any flags in there
12:44.25f8e4eg if i click link and autoopen browser
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12:46.49f8e4afe from corrupting chromium startup
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12:50.03jellyf8e4: try it and see
12:50.37jellymake a backup of ~/.config/chromium if unsure
12:50.54jelly(but you already have a backup of your HOME, right? :-)
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13:06.43hramrachhello
13:06.56hramrachhow do I verify the netinst stuff
13:07.35hramrachthe installation guide says to download from http://http.us.debian.org/debian/dists/buster/main/installer-amd64/current/images/ but I do not see any signature there
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14:10.03naHi! I'm building some software that requires qt5, and only includes instructions for ubuntu. They install ubuntu's qt5-default in order to pull in what they need. What's the modern equivalent to that on debian testing?
14:11.35oxekwhich software? ./configure should tell you if that's part of the building instructions
14:11.46ikoniamodern equivalent ?
14:12.20naoxek: fceux. They're using cmake. It just yells about not having qt stuff, it doesn't provide build instructions for debian testing
14:12.37ikoniawhat libraries is it missing
14:12.51naikonia: There are old debian qt5-default packages kicking around, but I don't see any for current debian testing
14:13.19ikoniana: so the first question will be is the QT version you need even part of testing ?
14:13.28ikoniawhat libraries is it complaining about
14:13.50naIt's complaining about not having the qt5 configuration files for cmake, on account of being cmake
14:13.59naIt wants qt5 stuff
14:14.19ikoniaqt5 stuff is not really going to help you work the packages
14:15.03naI'm trying to build something from source, and I'm working with instructions for ubuntu. I'm trying to translate those into valid instructions for debian
14:15.08jelly!debian-next
14:15.08dpkg#debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode.  If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc
14:15.12jellyna: ^ ask there
14:15.13naAhhh
14:15.18naThanks, sorry
14:15.22jellyno prob, bob
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14:16.59jelly,v qt5-default
14:17.00juddPackage: qt5-default on amd64 -- jessie: 5.3.2+dfsg-4+deb8u2; jessie-security: 5.3.2+dfsg-4+deb8u4; stretch: 5.7.1+dfsg-3+deb9u2; stretch-proposed-updates: 5.7.1+dfsg-3+deb9u2; stretch-security: 5.7.1+dfsg-3+deb9u2; buster-security: 5.11.3+dfsg1-1+deb10u3; buster: 5.11.3+dfsg1-1+deb10u4
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14:17.46jelly,depends qt5-default
14:17.47juddPackage qt5-default in buster/amd64 -- depends: qtbase5-dev, qtchooser (>= 55-gc9562a1-1~).
14:20.46jelly<ikonia> qt5 stuff is not really going to help you work the packages # what makes you think so, usually getting the build deps right allows for, well, building
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15:09.27kayrontin nft, how do I refer to "the primary ip address of interface X" in the config? like (if:0) in pf (bsd)
15:10.54jellykayront: if there's no answer, try the #Netfilter channel
15:11.11kayrontnoted jelly, thanks
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15:23.22unbornhi all, suddenly I have issues with latest net install - locales via terminal to set it up, no issues via physical connection = keyboard and monitor... - what I am doing wrong here or was something drastically changed on debian 10 since debian 9? - thanks for explanation
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15:27.35kskunborn: hello. I am having problems parsing an error description from your posting.
15:27.46kskWhats wrong, and what would you expect instead?
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15:30.48unbornwell ksk I would normally regenerate locales with command which does work as physically at the machine but via ssh - it said ok and after reboot it messed up. I would expect from debian net install iso to not have any issues at all however I am human, may I do something wrong. (keep in mind that I use debian since debian 5 - Im old folk and I would not ask otherwise - it makes me look like an idiot)
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15:31.40erle-How do I prevent Debian from going to suspend from lock screen of login screen (GDM)?
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15:33.15GNU\colossus,v mutt
15:33.16juddPackage: mutt on amd64 -- jessie: 1.5.23-3; jessie-security: 1.5.23-3+deb8u3; stretch: 1.7.2-1+deb9u3; stretch-proposed-updates: 1.7.2-1+deb9u3; stretch-security: 1.7.2-1+deb9u3; buster-security: 1.10.1-2.1+deb10u2; buster: 1.10.1-2.1+deb10u4; buster-backports: 2.0.2-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 2.0.2-1; sid: 2.0.2-1
15:33.36kskunborn: how can I possibly understand your issue, if all the details you give are "it messed up"
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15:34.22kskunborn: what are you trying to do in the first place? You have a machine with broken locales - how does a netinstall fit into this context!?
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15:45.31unbornksk - Im trying to install debian net install iso on to one of my laptops - used without display.. I think I've got it. thank you for your help.
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15:48.40unborn,v apache
15:48.42juddNo package named 'apache' was found in amd64.
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15:49.42unbornoh :)
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15:51.24ksk,v apache2
15:51.25juddPackage: apache2 on amd64 -- jessie: 2.4.10-10+deb8u12; jessie-security: 2.4.10-10+deb8u16; stretch: 2.4.25-3+deb9u9; stretch-security: 2.4.25-3+deb9u9; buster: 2.4.38-3+deb10u4; buster-security: 2.4.38-3+deb10u4; stretch-backports-sloppy: 2.4.43-1~bpo9+1; buster-backports: 2.4.46-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 2.4.46-2; sid: 2.4.46-2
15:53.45unbornksk: that's why I said 'oh and smile'  i enquired b0t directly and it did answer me correctly.
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15:57.10n4dirand in all those years you never ran in : ask questions the right way ?
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16:17.26Sentinelwhat are the odds that Debian 11 gets extended long term support?
16:17.37Sentinelyou know, with the whole CentOS debacle
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16:19.18ratracedefine "Extended". an LTS effort already exists
16:20.13jellySentinel: right now, LTS and ELTS are managed by a team different than Debian Security Team, and they rely on donations
16:21.02jellyodds for LTS to exist for the duration of 5 years after bullseye (Debian 11) is out seem decent
16:21.27Sentinelcool
16:21.37jellyodds for ELTS depends a lot on how many companies buy the ELTS level of support
16:22.14SentinelI guess this is a bit premature given bullseye is still like 9 months out from being released or w/e
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16:22.28jellyyou need at least "silver" LTS level, and then a variable amount for ELTS depending on how many and which packages you need supported
16:23.31jelly!lts
16:23.31dpkgDebian Long Term Support (LTS) is a project to extend the lifetime of all Debian stable releases to (at least) 5 years.  Debian LTS is not handled by the Debian security team, but by a separate group of volunteers and companies.  Ask me about <jessie-lts> and <stretch-lts> and see https://wiki.debian.org/LTS for more information.  #debian-lts on irc.oftc.net.
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16:39.36sjdAnyone have a recommended server host near the chicago area?
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16:59.54freebench__hi, trying to setup apt to use proxy. I'd add this to apt.conf HTTPS_PROXY=[username]:[password]@[proxy-web-or-IP-address]:[port-number]
17:00.10freebench__how should it be if there is no authentication
17:00.31kskHTTPS_PROXY=[proxy-web-or-IP-address]:[port-number]
17:00.50kskwhich translates to "HTTPS_PROXY=127.0.0.1:1234" for example
17:00.57freebench__I see, thx
17:01.07freebench__what is correct location of the apt.conf ?
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17:03.06kskfreebench__: to find out something like that yourself: search manapges via "apropos apt.conf" -> this leads you to "apt.conf (5)" -> enter "man 5 apt.conf"
17:03.11kskwhich then will tell you the corrept path ;)
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17:03.39ksk(ps: its not that surprising)
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17:05.16freebench__ksk, each day smtg new. thanks
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17:06.04ksk!next
17:06.04dpkgAnother happy customer leaves the building.
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17:27.25duude__Hey people. Please give me ideas which dirs to exclude for rsync of the entire /.
17:27.26duude__So far the only ideas I had is /dev and /proc. What else?
17:27.37greycat/sys
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17:28.43mutanteduude__: most of the time I just opt-in and do /home and /etc , then dpkg --get/set-selections to install the same packages on both sides
17:28.50duude__Perhaps /boot and /tmp could go too
17:29.06duude__mutante: o
17:29.10duude__that sounds like a better solution ngl
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17:30.10duude__mutante: Isn't /var important too though?
17:31.26greycat/var is 3rd most important after /etc and /home
17:31.28mutanteduude__: dpkg --get-selections > somefile; scp somefile to other host;  dpkg --set-selections < somefile ... that first and then rsync of /etc and /home I should have said. (or use something like puppet or chef to automate it in the first place)
17:32.00mutanteduude__: depends what is installed. if there was a database then there would be an additional "mysqldump .." copy dump file and read from the dump
17:32.04greycatthough to be fair it really depends on the system; for some, /usr/local may be very important to preserve
17:32.18mutanteyes, very much "depends". that is right
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17:33.47mutante/usr/local could have stuff especially if people manually compile/install stuff, but in that case it might be helpful to try and get away from that model of installing software to make this kind of thing easier
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17:35.27mutanteif it's a webserver then you probably want /var/
17:35.37mutanteas greycat already said.. ack
17:36.03greycatReally what's important is that you KNOW what you have on your system, and where it lives, and how to back it up and restore it.
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17:37.19greycatYou might have commercial apps in /opt that would be annoying to reinstall, or a bunch of content in /srv, or databases of various kinds....
17:37.25freemsince there might be important stuff in /src and /opt too? Somehow, I wonder why DBs install themselves in /var and custom softwares in /usr
17:37.53greycattraditionally /usr is mostly-read-only and /var is frequently modified stuff
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17:38.20mutanteI have found myself before thinking "well.. where does frequently start"
17:38.25freemI mean, I'd think /srv is meant for storage servers, and DB daemons are some sort of daemon? As for /opt, it seems to be for the same thing as /usr/local?
17:38.27greycat(log files, databases, mail queues, print job spools, etc.)
17:38.57freems/daemon/server/
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17:39.08greycatmutante: some people mount /usr readonly and only change it to rw when they want to update/install something
17:39.18mutantedoesn't /opt mean optional? so that would mean it's not needed and you don't have to back it up ?:p
17:39.51freemOne could argue most softwares on a system are optional :D
17:40.05mutantegreycat: makes sense! Yea, you summed it up good that the most important part is to know what is installed where.
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17:41.21quadrathoch2freem what i learned is, /usr/local is for 3rd party which integrates into linux directory structure, /opt is where software is dumped, (where it's literally 1 directory)
17:41.53freemI see. Can make sense, I suppose.
17:43.52freemI suppose /opt have another difference: it's not in $PATH, especially for init.d scripts (I had the nice surprise someday, after having run a script to have all busybox binaries "extracted" as symlinks in /usr/local/bin, several broke. It's probably not important anymore)
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17:44.20cousin_luigiGreetings.
17:44.31greycatIf you're writing your own boot scripts or services, you should typically expect you'll have to set PATH yourself.
17:44.40cousin_luigihas not played with cron in a long while
17:44.42greycatAnd perhaps several other variables as well.
17:44.51freemgreycat: yep, but that was *not* in my scripts :)
17:45.06cousin_luigiI don't understand why run-parts wont work on a custom script: does it have to follow a particular format?
17:45.11greycatit's a common error
17:45.12freemI was never fond of those horrible things...
17:45.31greycatrun-parts has a man page that tells you what the restrictions are on the filenames that it will process
17:45.56greycatthe big one is "no dots"
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17:48.50cousin_luigigreycat: I can't find anything about it.
17:49.00greycatwhat is the name of your file?
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17:49.47cousin_luigiuh oh, the link contained a dot ^_^
17:49.48cousin_luigithanks:)
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18:28.35hramrachhow do I verify the netinst stuff?
18:28.39hramrachthe installation guide says to download from http://http.us.debian.org/debian/dists/buster/main/installer-amd64/current/images/ but I do not see any signature there
18:29.27nkuttlerthere are the md5/sha256 sums
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18:30.12hramrachbut not signatures
18:30.26mutanteverify and checksum are separate things. for Debian packages both are a thing but for installer itself I guess just checksums?
18:30.34nkuttlerthe checksums are signed
18:31.00hramrachby what? I do not see a signature file in the directory
18:31.02nkuttlershould be.. https://www.debian.org/CD/verify
18:31.20hramrachthat's only for CDs, not installer
18:31.20mutanteah, yea, i was also missing inline sig or a sig file
18:32.04greycatif your "installer" is not part of a CD image, then you probably belong in
18:32.05greycat!d-i
18:32.05dpkgInformation about the development of the debian-installer is at the developers page http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ .  If you want to make custom install CDs, start with d-i.  IRC: #debian-boot on irc.oftc.net.  See also <errata>, <g-i>.
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18:32.51hramrachI do not want to develop it. I want to download and verify integrity of the net installer so that I can securely install Debian
18:33.17ozntis there anyone here familiar with debops?
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18:36.24greycatthe netinst *is* a CD image
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18:38.00hramrachnot *that* CD image. the mini.iso and tftpboot.tar
18:38.42gnat_xhramrach: look here https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-cd/
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18:39.15gnat_xoh, netboot, not netinst.
18:41.26greycatThis must be some method of installation I've never seen. *shrug*
18:41.48hramrachtftp, never heard of that?
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18:42.22gnat_xhramrach: you're talking about https://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst#netboot right?
18:43.19hramrachnot sure where that link points to, the web page has two columns side by side
18:43.38gnat_xhow about the one labeled "Network Boot"
18:43.49hramrachhttps://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch04s05.en.html
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18:46.04gnat_xhramrach: okay, so you are, in fact talking about "netboot" which which is a subset "netinst"
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18:47.33gnat_xand in general, not worth it if it can be avoided. unless you're doing more than a couple machines, or your target machine does not have a usb input, i've never found it to be worth the additional trouble invovled with BOOTP.
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18:51.38JustASlackerthats kinda awkward in debian
18:51.52JustASlackerthe kickstart stuff on redhat is way easier to netboot
18:51.53hramrachgnat_x: I laready have the server set up. I only want to put the Debian installation file on it
18:53.25hramrachI don't think it's particularly awkward unless you have a piece of hardware with serious netboot bug like a SGI mips machine
18:53.47hramrachthe only awkward part is that the files lack a signature
18:55.51JustASlackerwell, it is if you want to set ip addresses and such
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18:56.25hramrachyou need to set up those anyway if you want to have networking
18:57.03JustASlackershrugs
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18:58.29gnat_xhramrach: i don't know why these mirrors dpm
18:58.33gnat_xwoops
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18:58.50gnat_xi don't know why these mirrors don't have the .sign file in the dir.
18:58.53gnat_xit should be there.
18:59.43hramrachJustASlacker: what does kickstart have to do with anything? It is installation automation once the installer is running.
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19:01.20hramrachgnat_x: Looking at the Release file it seems it has checksum for the installer checksum files and is signed. So you can check Release, check sum file, check installer file which is rather baroque scheme.
19:01.50hramrachIs there some tool for downloading these files?
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19:03.46JustASlackeryou usually configure a kickstart file and give it to the kernel on pxe boot
19:04.17JustASlackerfor setting up disk partitions or networking and all the things
19:04.34JustASlackerlike here: https://www.golinuxcloud.com/configure-kickstart-pxe-boot-server-linux/#Step_5_Configure_kickstart_server
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19:05.23JustASlackerits been a while but FAI wasnt that flexible
19:05.34JustASlackerlooks like that might have changed with buster tho
19:05.55JustASlackerand I guess nowadays you would try to use cloudinit, I guess
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19:07.36dob1I would like to know if I can get a more accurate position in browsers that use geolocation api. Have I to install some services?  (no gpsd doesn't, I just tried)
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19:26.23rjpower4Question: Given a application launcher in $HOME/.local/share/applications that calls a binary in $HOME/.local/bin where $HOME/.local/bin is added to the path in $HOME/.profile (and I've checked is available on a login shell), why is it not found when attempting to launch from the desktop launcher menu? Does that not source $HOME/.profile?
19:26.47greycatMy guess?  Because you did not actually login with a shell.
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19:27.25greycatIf you logged in with a GUI (DM), dot in your ~/.profile from your ~/.xsessionrc file.  Which you may need to create.  Also make sure your .profile is sh syntax only.
19:27.40GNU\colossusalso, ~/.pam_environment
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19:29.51greycatYou will not be able to make modifications to PATH in .pam_environment unless you completely override it, and hard-code the name of your home directory.
19:31.08rjpower4Ah, of course, the dotting in the .profile did it. Thanks y'all!
19:32.28greycatalso, user_readenv is OFF by default, so you would have to reconfigure PAM to enable reading ~/.pam_environment which still has the horribly crippling limitations of /etc/environment
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19:32.46greycatall of these things are reasons why nobody actually uses it
19:32.56greycatremoves the .pam_environment file he just tested with
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19:36.48f8e4folks where do you put jwt tokens, in script or env/bashrc ?
19:37.16greycatdpkg: jwt
19:37.16dpkggreycat: bugger all, i dunno
19:37.50f8e4passwords & sensitive stuff;
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19:38.31f8e4jwt: is an access token in json
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19:45.19jmcnaughtFor GNOME/GDM on buster it looks like ~/.profile is run by bash at login.  I put https://termbin.com/hfcm in my ~/.profile, logged out and logged back in, and checked if  ~/testbash existed using the file manager.
19:45.31jmcnaughtAnd it was there.
19:45.34greycatjmcnaught: wayland might do that, X will not
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19:45.51greycatand I wouldn't expect it to be executed by bash; more likely by sh
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19:46.45jmcnaughtWould '[ -n "$BASH_VERSION"]' be true if it was sh?
19:47.22greycatI'd just log the contents of BASH_VERSION if you're testing that.
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19:49.19jmcnaughtGood point, it's "5.0.3(1)-release"
19:49.51greycatSo it really does run bash?  Weird.
19:50.31greycatI continue to be baffled by GNOME.
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19:52.06jmcnaughtIt does not seem to leave bash running though.  If I open the task manager thing there is no bash process until I open a terminal emulator.
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19:53.02greycatwonders why the Wayland advocacy club is incapable of documenting basic shit like "what programs get run, and files get read, during login".
19:53.43freemis it really related to wayland, or just to gnome's wayland server?
19:53.54greycatbut hell, let's just make it the "default" choice in the installer, without telling anyone how it works, what could possibly go wrong
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19:59.47ratracegreycat: the idea is, programs that don't support the protocol would transparently use xorg via xwayland
20:00.44greycatOK, but how about documenting the files that are read during login, and how to customize your environment?
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20:01.46greycatIf you really want to see 'em squirm, ask them how to customize your locale in GNOME, e.g. to have a LANG variable set to one thing, but an LC_COLLATE set to C.
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20:04.44ratracehuh.... indeed.... ~/.xsess*  stuff is no longer sourced, amirite?
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21:21.44infinmedwhat is the preferred way to recompile debian like in gentoo?
21:22.01infinmedlike emptyimg tree in emerge
21:22.12infinmedemptying*
21:23.06infinmedother than using gentoo
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21:26.13gnat_xinfinmed: generally people use debian to avoid compiling as much as possible.
21:28.40dob1and ppl use gentoo to compile as much as they can ? :)
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21:29.39gnat_xmaybe my undertanding is outdated, but my understanding is that everything in gentoo is compiled.
21:30.04dob1I remember that to compile openoffice years ago took like 20 hours (it was not me but a person I know)
21:30.11gnat_xlike emerg is just an engine to direct recompile.
21:30.41gnat_xthe only people i knew who ran it, ran it on work machines that they could leave updating over the weekend.
21:31.36dob1maybe now with recent computer, ssd, faster ram the compile time is heavily reduced for every program
21:31.52gnat_xinfinmed: but if you just want to know how to update what's there, the answer is read about apt.
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21:43.53greycatDebian is a binary distribution.  The overwhelming majority of people download binary packages for use.  If you want to compile *one* package, you can do that.  It's one by one.  Each package it totally separate, and is built totally separately.  There is no concept of "make world".
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21:45.13format_cI also came from Gentoo to Debian and I found is soooo blessing. Everything worked right away w/o any special configuration and installing packages is sooo fast..
21:45.26greycatIf your goal is "I want to rebuild every single package with this obscure set of C compiler optimizing flags so things run 0.3% faster", Debian is not for you.
21:50.06truime a couple days ago: 'i use lxqt so it doesn't matter to me whether xfce beats the freeze or not. lxqt needs a maintainer anyways'
21:50.40truisomeone, i forget who: 'why not use lxde?' me: 'oh, i felt lxqt looked better'.
21:51.06mutantegoogled "Gentoobian" just to check if that's a thing
21:51.44truitoday: *tries out lxde and finds out it uses openbox. sees openbox desktop on the login screen. clicks*
21:52.02truiafter realizing it wasn't frozen, it's just minimalistic, i like it! :D
21:52.03OneLegendfun
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21:52.22truimaybe i'll just use openbox, haha.
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21:53.53gnat_xtrui: i think the main reason to use lxde over openbox is how much you rely on a lot of common shortcuts, and whether you want to learn the openbox ones, configure them in openbox, or make lxde be less in the way/ugly.
21:54.11gnat_xbut i haven't tried plain openbox in a while.
21:56.55truii might end up with lxde, but it'd be nice to configure a middle ground between the two.
21:57.39truilmao, i've got ten million krita menu entries. this is why i should stop trying out new desktops.
21:57.48gnat_xyeah. what don't you like about lxde? i set up a machine that i've ended up using a lot, and have spent way more time messing with it than i had planned.
21:58.35truioh, there's nothing wrong with it, but if openbox ends up running cooler than lxde+openbox, that'd be a bonus
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21:59.06truii just figured lxqt/lxde were my main options earlier. i didn't realize just using openbox could work
21:59.32dob1there is a distribution, unfortunately I don't remember the name, that has a very nice customization of openbox as default
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22:00.09rjpower4I think ArcoLinux has one
22:00.13dob1you could just copy most of the config files they have created and use on your openbox... but I don't remember this one
22:00.23gnat_xthere is (was?) crunchbang which had an openbox default iirc.
22:00.45n4dirwas, but i think now there is a community fork of it. Or was.
22:00.57dob1gnat_x, it's the successor bunsenlabs
22:00.59dob1found it
22:02.13infinmedok
22:02.21truisounds neat. i probably only need a few shortcuts to my main applications though.
22:02.29truiwhich is very individual
22:02.40dob1tint2 is imho needed
22:02.53infinmedso wanted that native compile and non exec stack and stack protector strong amd no plt and stuff in one command but ok
22:03.35infinmedhard to compile gentoo from phone
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22:04.02truiah, that's useful if i ever get tired of not having a panel. thanks, dob1
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22:08.54truii installed it now actually since i accidentally minimized a window, haha.
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22:10.41dob1trui, there are a lot of shortcut on openbox, you can look at rc.xml to costumize / learn them
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22:13.26truifound it. thanks again
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22:15.04truiyeah, this looks like it should work out fine, especially with tint2. it's nice that debian is so stable that i actually feel up to tweaking/playing with stuff like this. :)
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22:15.23BillyZanehello
22:16.04ratraceBilleh!
22:16.13BillyZanehi ratrace :)
22:16.58BillyZaneso i want to run my first server, but my hardware right now is limited. i only got 1 PC
22:17.11mrkrampsvm
22:17.26BillyZaneso i want to run a server, a file server, and a desktop
22:17.41dob1a file server is a bit generic
22:17.46BillyZanewhat type of topology do you guys recommend?
22:18.03BillyZanedob1, i was thinking of having two 3TB disks in raid 1
22:18.36mrkrampswhy a file server if there is only one pc?
22:18.53mutante"server" really just means it's running something that .. serves something. It doesn't mean you need special hardware or a very powerful machine.
22:19.15BillyZanewell i was thinking of being able to stream movies with plex
22:19.27BillyZaneand also be able to stream over the internet on occasion
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22:20.20mutanteI think your biggest concern should be the Internet connection it's hooked up to.
22:20.30mrkrampsyep
22:20.37gnat_xBillyZane: okay, so you want a server that you can on occaision sit down in front of, but mainly use other devices... or is this going to be your main computer.
22:20.53BillyZanethis will be my main computer for the time being
22:21.03gnat_xand yeah, interent connection will be the main issue when you start streaming (off your local network)
22:21.09BillyZanebut i also want to be able to use it as a desktop on occassion. like a VM would be fine
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22:21.35BillyZanemy upload speed isn't that great. it's fine though, it's mostly a plus if i can stream
22:21.49BillyZanei just wanted to be able to stream to 1 other person over the internet if possible
22:22.05BillyZanei was thinking of maybe re-encoding the video as well
22:22.08dob1to stream on internet, it means for you when you are not at home? for other people?
22:22.21mutantehaving a server that additionally has a graphical UI is not an issue
22:22.26dob1something public or private?
22:22.34BillyZaneit would be private
22:22.43dob1so consider a vpn
22:22.46gnat_xhrm. for simplicity i might do a VM for the server stuff, and let the desktop stuff run on  bare metal.
22:22.50mutanteit's mostly just if you have the connection for it..data and latency
22:22.56BillyZanedob1, i have a vpn as well
22:22.57ratraceBillyZane: so basically you just want to make a bunch of mp4 (or whatever format) files available for download to someone?   because streaming implies something else really
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22:23.19gnat_xthat way you can put the server storage in a separate FS from your system, and also it will get its own addressing.
22:23.22ratracea VM is not a blanket solution, it has resource overhead
22:23.22mutante,retroshare
22:23.46BillyZanewell the streaming thing isn't really my top priority, it's just an example of something i would use the server for
22:24.18gnat_xratrace: i know it isn't, but i think that running VMs on a desktop system is a reasonable way to separate things out.
22:24.25BillyZaneso, i would be running a server, perhaps streaming to my phone over wifi
22:24.39ratracegnat_x: yes, assuming separation is needed to begin with
22:24.44dob1in that case you just need, for example, minidlna and vlc on your phone
22:24.58ratracemy workstation is also a server for my home. I don't VM the server part.
22:25.02ratracethere's no reason to
22:25.20ratraceand with taht I have much better resource control, and no loss in security.
22:25.41mutanteboth "PC" and "server" are not vey well defined terms
22:26.00BillyZanewhat i'm really wondering is, is it possible to run 'X' on a VM on top of debian without 'X'
22:26.08mutanteoriginally PC just meant "has 1 user" instead of sharing it
22:26.35ratraceBillyZane: yes. question is do you really want that
22:26.39dob1BillyZane, imho there is no reason to do this
22:26.40ratrace!xy
22:26.40dpkgSlow down for a bit! Are you sure that you need to jump through that particular hoop to achieve your goal? We suspect you don't, so why don't you back up a bit and tell us about the overall objective... We know that people often falsely diagnose problems because they are too close to them -- it's easy to miss that there is a better way to proceed.  See http://mywiki.wooledge.org/XyProblem
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22:26.54gnat_xratrace: that's a reasonable solution, though i tend to create, move, and destroy some things too often.
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22:27.33BillyZaneratrace, i dunno, i could maybe not do that and just get a second PC
22:27.48mutanteit's not like "remove X" will make the streaming server serve more users.. at least I don't think so
22:28.11gnat_xBillyZane: yes, you can do that, but there is no good reason to, and lots of good reasons not to. i think what we're disagreeing on is whether to put the "server" parts on a VM.
22:28.47BillyZanemy hardware btw: i have a thinkserver TS140 with an an intel xeon E3-1280 v3 (VT-x VT-d enabled), and i'm looking to max out the ram to about 32gb or maybe 16gb
22:28.51mrkrampsand the server part would not neccessarily include the files
22:28.57mutanteso trying to tune it by removing X to "turn it into a server" to then add stuff again to "sometimes use it as a desktop" seems like a waste..  you can just install X and not auto-start it and type "startx" yourself on those occasional days
22:29.19BillyZanegnat_x, i was also thinking of running xen
22:29.37gnat_xi've only stress tested icecast a long time ago, but we hit bottleneck with network before system resources when we added users.
22:30.14BillyZanemutante, i see
22:30.27mutanteYea, i mean there is "icecast for raspberry" which shows the whole hardware thing is not relevant
22:30.32mutantejust the connection
22:30.44BillyZanemutante, and on that occassion, i can 'stopx' and i won't see any system instability later on?
22:30.49mutanteat least speaking for audio
22:30.54dob1BillyZane, it's the ts140 noisy ?
22:31.00BillyZanedob1, no it's very quiet
22:31.07BillyZanedob1, it's almost inaudible
22:31.51mutanteBillyZane: yea, you would click. but basically. https://www.oreilly.com/openbook/debian/book/ch05_04.html
22:32.55BillyZanei see
22:33.50BillyZanei will likely build a new desktop, but my ts140 does have great hypervisor features
22:33.51mutantein the past this was once normal.. before everything auto-started GUI
22:34.20mutantebut also I doubt you (as a streaming user) would notice whether X runs on the server or not
22:34.44BillyZanei mean, it's a quad core 3.7ghz haswell CPU, with virtualization support and 32 gigs of ram, and my server needs are really not that high. i've actually never ran a server so i'm really just learning
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22:35.19mutanteBillyZane: i'd say the hardware is way overkill for your occasional use of ... 1 user ?:)
22:35.22gnat_xYeah. you will not notice whether X is on or not.
22:35.27BillyZanemutante, haha
22:35.32BillyZanemutante, the CPU was $110
22:35.44BillyZanemutante, i'm actually on the TS140 right now
22:35.45BillyZaneClient: HexChat 2.14.3 • OS: ArchLinux • CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-4150 CPU @ 3.50GHz (3.49GHz) • Memory: Physical: 7.4 GiB Total (1.8 GiB Free) Swap: 8.6 GiB Total (7.5 GiB Free) • Storage: 45.7 GB / 230.2 GB (184.6 GB Free) • VGA: Intel Corporation 4th Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics Controller @ Intel Corporation 4th Gen Core Processor DRAM Controller • Uptime: 5d 2h 0m 10s
22:35.59ratrace.... ArchLinux ....
22:36.13ratraceWhy, Billeh! Oh why, why, whyyyyy!
22:36.14BillyZanethe current CPU is a dual core, but it runs fine most of the time
22:36.16BillyZanelol
22:36.36ratraceso this is not a Debian question at all, right?
22:36.48BillyZaneno, i was thinking of running debian on this
22:37.00BillyZanebut i don't know what kind of topology i should use
22:37.07ratracetopology of what
22:37.08BillyZaneshould i be running a type 1 hypervisor
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22:37.32BillyZanelike VMware ESXi, or xen, or KVM
22:37.38mutanteBillyZane: you are overthinking it. just install the streaming software it becomes a "server"
22:37.55mutanteVMs are kind of not even related to it
22:37.57BillyZanebut i want separation between the server and desktop
22:38.10greycatwhy?
22:38.45greycatit's like hiring a team of aerospace engineers because you want to fold a paper airplane
22:38.49ratracealso nobody is calling them type1 or type2, becsue the distinctoin has been lost really
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22:39.05ratracekvm is also doing paravirt, so it's much less different than, say, xen, than it was years ago
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22:39.48ratraceBillyZane: if you want separation, then just run the server applications in a VM or even containerized
22:40.31mutanteBillyZane: https://nextcloud.com/  by the way
22:40.54BillyZaneoh nice
22:41.02BillyZanealso i had two hard disks (3tb)
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22:43.29BillyZaneso i want to have a file server as well, like a local file server
22:43.45BillyZanei do intend to get another PC eventually. i actually have most of the components, it's just CPU prices are so high right now
22:44.04BillyZanei'm thinking about just returning all my recently bought PC hardware and waiting till next year
22:44.19BillyZaneso i'm going to be stuck with this computer as my new desktop
22:45.09mutanteBillyZane: why have 2 PCs?:)
22:45.23BillyZanelol mutante
22:45.31mutanteyou can have plenty of VMs on that
22:45.53mutanteenough RAM for 80 Debian "servers"
22:46.24mutantewell, maybe 32 :)
22:46.39BillyZanelol
22:46.51BillyZanethis might sound heretical
22:47.07BillyZanebut i'm thinking i should just run arch
22:47.14BillyZanebecause 1) i don't really have server needs
22:47.31dob1but sorry, the premis was "I want a server"
22:47.33ratraceare we being trolled :)
22:47.36BillyZanehaha
22:47.43ratraceI think we're being trolled.
22:47.44BillyZaneno you are not. i'm just sitting here thinking
22:48.01mutanteyea, now it's getting into "distro war" plus "not debian" plus "server with no server needs"
22:48.04mutanteI think i'm out
22:48.09BillyZanerofl
22:48.12mrkrampsyou could run a debian vm on an arch linux host
22:48.17BillyZanethat's true
22:48.41BillyZanebut it seems backwards right? i don't consider arch to be stable. but debian? if a robot was doing open heart surgery on me, i'd want it to run debian
22:49.21BillyZanemy ultra stable server's foundation is an unstable rolling release distro with X running
22:49.32dob1I never thought debian in this way
22:49.33mutantelet me use a classic for the old farts here: *plonk*
22:49.46ratracehey!
22:51.13mutante*barely knows what a server is* ... *uses term 'rolling release distro'* :p
22:51.20dvswhippersnapper!
22:51.24gnat_xBillyZane: i think what you want is to run something like nextcloud on a VM. Then if you want to separate out "server" from "desktop" you can do that on network, and filesystem level. meaning that you can easily separate them on a hardware level down the road. run all that on top of a desktop. you won't notice.
22:51.45dob1I would suggest to put the open heart surgery quote as dpkg factoid :)
22:51.57ratracec'mon, every archer knows what a "rolling release" is, it's their number one selling bulletpoint
22:53.40BillyZanelol
22:54.20BillyZanegnat_x, man i'm just trying to figure out what you said
22:55.22BillyZaneok i see. so i would create a file system for the VM, and some day, transfer that file system on to its own dedicated hardware
22:55.26gnat_xi just mean, install debian like you were setting up a desktop. them install KVM or something, and spin up a VM to run nextcloud on it.
22:55.50ratraceor you could flatpak it
22:55.56gnat_xi tend to put VMs on their own logical volumes.
22:55.58ratracemuch less overhead and fiddling
22:56.03mrkrampslol
22:56.06gnat_xtrue.
22:56.31gnat_xbut sometimes people enjoy fiddling...
22:56.58ratracea'ight
22:57.50mutanteyea, maybe he should compile the streaming server himself on gentoo to optimize it for the 1 user on a quadcore
22:58.43gnat_xif someone is trying to do something the hard way for learning reasons, i can support a certain amount of that... but yeah, that may not be what's happening.
23:00.53BillyZaneKVM, man i don't get KVM. sigh
23:01.31mrkrampshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel-based_Virtual_Machine
23:02.30mutanteBillyZane: http://www.ganeti.org/
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23:06.55ratracebeen long time since I've seen ganeti recommended.
23:07.07ratracepeopel usually jump at solus
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23:22.51f8e4hey, do you know how to backport i3 from testing to buster; want latest version
23:23.03f8e4current is 2 years old , got bugs
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23:24.08mrkrampsf8e4, you could just compile latest version and install locally
23:24.11SomelauwI added deb http://cloud.r-project.org/bin/linux/debian buster-cran40/ to my sources.list, but when I try apt -t it won't autocomplete 'buster-cran40'. Did I forget something?
23:24.11freemf8e4: add sources for testing to your sources list, then update, then `apt-get source i3` then debuild -us -uc I guess
23:24.54greycatThere are a few more steps.  /msg dpkg simple sid backport
23:24.56sponix!ssb
23:24.57dpkgFirst, check for a backport on <debian-backports>.  If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb  To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
23:27.56freemis there is a way to know dpkg's hints?
23:28.13freem(the bot, I mean)
23:28.13f8e4dpkg hi
23:28.29jmcnaughtfreem: https://ircbots.debian.net/factoids/
23:28.53freemty
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23:42.27f8e4dpkg says: apt update, but perm denied!
23:42.28dpkgbugger all, i dunno, f8e4
23:42.49f8e4when sudo when no sudo dpkg
23:43.00freemsudo dpkg make me a sandwich
23:43.05freemaw
23:43.20f8e4dpkg splain it!
23:43.20dpkgf8e4: wish i knew
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23:47.52sneya) irc factoids are limited by the max size of an irc message. 2) users should know that when they are doing something system admin related, such as updating the package manager, they need to do so as root.
23:48.10sneytherefore, dpkg's factoids will not include "sudo" in the instructions.
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23:51.37f8e4build stopped out: https://bpa.st/PZTQ
23:52.01freemunmet dependencies message is pretty clear to me
23:52.20f8e4freem yes i dont know what do & how; do i break i dunno
23:52.21freemapt-get build-dep foobar
23:52.22sneylooks like you either skipped the 'apt build-dep' stage, or ignored errors during it
23:53.15f8e41. update deb-src sid; 2. sudo apt -b source i3: error
23:53.48sney!ssb
23:53.48dpkgFirst, check for a backport on <debian-backports>.  If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb  To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
23:53.54sneyliterally step 3
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23:55.38derpadminI am having a hard time setting up wake on lan with a bro interface
23:55.42derpadmin*br0
23:55.54derpadminthe bios settings looks ok
23:56.34derpadminethernet-wol g was added to the config
23:57.49derpadminrunning buster
23:57.52f8e4sney: https://bpa.st/4YFQ
23:57.56derpadminany help appreciated
23:58.29f8e4am i doing it right, it seems outoforder now; i got the deb; but stopped out on '$ sudo dpkg -i i3_4.19-1_amd64.deb'
23:59.45sneyf8e4: yes, just install the other i3-wm package that you built. if you do e.g. 'apt install ./i3-wm*.deb' then any other dependencies will be installed automatically
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