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| 00:07.27 | skyliner_369 | just poking my nose in for those who know the limitations of GRUB |
| 00:08.09 | sponix | grub has limitations ? |
| 00:09.14 | skyliner_369 | mobo can't boot a M.2 on a PCIE slot. was thinking of seeing if GRUB can make the m.2 boot anyway |
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| 00:10.11 | skyliner_369 | the mobo is kinda old |
| 00:11.17 | quadrathoch2 | skyliner_369 are you sure the mainboard _can_ boot from pcie? |
| 00:11.43 | quadrathoch2 | oh... reading is hard sorry |
| 00:13.30 | sney | if grub lives on a disk the motherboard can boot from, it can load an OS from any other volume that it can access |
| 00:14.31 | skyliner_369 | That is helpful! |
| 00:15.08 | skyliner_369 | So I can put GRUB on a spinny disk and Windows on the M.2 then? |
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| 00:16.08 | sney | sure, chainloading windows should be possible. |
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| 00:18.12 | skyliner_369 | That sounds good. Would it be the same as on my personal pc? Has a built in m2 slot with a card installed with windows. I boot windows through grub |
| 00:18.45 | skyliner_369 | I got Linux on spinny. |
| 00:19.44 | sney | that is the same principle |
| 00:20.38 | Ede|Popede | why does `apt-cache show rss-glx` when it is installed on stretch, but when it is not on buster i get a "Purely Virtual Package" message? simulating install says N/A, but referred to by another package. And according to judd in buster the version string only had a '+b3' added. |
| 00:20.52 | skyliner_369 | Ok. Yeah windows refused to install (it saw the nvme in the pcie fine) because mobo didn't support booting from it |
| 00:22.25 | sney | for help with windows install shenanigans, you should probably ask in ##windows. |
| 00:22.56 | skyliner_369 | Well I was asking if grub could bypass that limitation |
| 00:23.16 | sney | from the debian perspective, if you have an existing $other-os on a disk in your system, and e.g. os-prober can detect it, then you'll be able to add that other OS to debian's grub menu. |
| 00:23.32 | sney | this doesn't cover making windows accept the existence of other operating systems or bootloaders. |
| 00:24.10 | skyliner_369 | That's... true... windows barely begrudgingly accepts macos |
| 00:28.08 | skyliner_369 | I think their argument is something about secure boot |
| 00:29.31 | skyliner_369 | I could easily get the OS on the drive because I can just appoint the drive as the VM drive |
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| 00:58.59 | HelloShitty | Evening |
| 00:59.48 | HelloShitty | What does this do: '<<HEX' when used like this: cat > test.txt <<HEX ? |
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| 01:05.19 | dvs | HelloShitty: it's an "in-place" file. There should be a HEX later on in the script. |
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| 01:10.54 | HelloShitty | dvs: no, it's a single command line |
| 01:12.01 | dvs | HelloShitty: if you type that and hit enter, does the command line come back. I imagine not. |
| 01:12.04 | HelloShitty | When you say "there should be an HEX...", an HEX what? File? Command? |
| 01:12.16 | HelloShitty | no, it doesn't |
| 01:12.37 | HelloShitty | But what is the meaning of the << ? |
| 01:12.41 | dvs | HelloShitty: The command line won't come back until you enter "HEX" on a line by itself. |
| 01:12.56 | HelloShitty | yes, I figured that out |
| 01:13.04 | HelloShitty | but what is that << for? |
| 01:13.13 | HelloShitty | Is it some way of asking for some input? |
| 01:13.19 | dvs | I dont know the formal name. |
| 01:13.36 | HelloShitty | and that only if that input comes up, the command can be completed? |
| 01:14.02 | dvs | Yes, it wants input from the console until you enter the word "HEX" on a line on it's own. |
| 01:14.05 | HelloShitty | When we use >, I think this is redirection |
| 01:14.42 | HelloShitty | means that we want to redirect the output of the previous command into some other place |
| 01:14.49 | HelloShitty | right? |
| 01:15.03 | HelloShitty | like: somecommand 2>/dev/null |
| 01:15.06 | dvs | right, and < redirects input from a file. |
| 01:15.21 | HelloShitty | into where? |
| 01:15.50 | HelloShitty | I mean 'cat' is itself to output something to stdout |
| 01:15.52 | dvs | whatever the command that was run |
| 01:16.21 | HelloShitty | it's a bit confusing |
| 01:16.46 | HelloShitty | cat > test.txt << HEX |
| 01:16.59 | HelloShitty | cat on it's own, outputs nothing, I guess |
| 01:17.24 | HelloShitty | So we are reirecting 'nothing' into that test.txt file |
| 01:17.25 | dvs | cat needs a file as input |
| 01:17.40 | HelloShitty | and this command will only complete after I enter HEX ? |
| 01:18.29 | dvs | You enter that command, then you type stuff afterwards and end with HEX on a line by itself. |
| 01:18.42 | dvs | Then test.txt will contain the stuff you types. |
| 01:18.46 | HelloShitty | ahh ok |
| 01:19.11 | HelloShitty | thanks man, I got it |
| 01:19.18 | dvs | npp |
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| 01:35.30 | overrider | I added a repo (deb https://repo.z-hub.io/z-push:/final/Debian_10 /) to /etc/apt/sources.list. After apt-get update however i see that apt still wants to install older version packages (z-push) instead of using those in the new repo. Is there a way i can force a repo for any package starting with z-push? |
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| 01:42.42 | quadrathoch2 | overrider you can either fix your policy (which I guess is why it's installing the older version) or apt install <package>=<version> |
| 01:44.20 | overrider | quadrathoch2: ok one more hint in regards to fixing the policy. How would i start to go about that? I thought after adding a repo, apt automatically goes for the highest version one... |
| 01:44.41 | quadrathoch2 | overrider what does apt policy say? (paste it to paste.debian.net) |
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| 01:45.48 | overrider | http://paste.debian.net/1178676/ |
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| 01:48.41 | quadrathoch2 | overrider what does apt policy <main package> say? can't see which one it would be |
| 01:49.45 | overrider | http://paste.debian.net/1178678/ |
| 01:49.50 | overrider | It lists the wrong (old) repo |
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| 01:52.10 | quadrathoch2 | overrider there is no z-push package on the new repo |
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| 01:53.06 | sney | maybe the 3rd party repo has it under a different name |
| 01:53.19 | quadrathoch2 | I assume it's the z-push-kopano |
| 01:53.24 | quadrathoch2 | overrider ^ |
| 01:54.40 | overrider | Ok this maybe it - yikes. Thanks... |
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| 02:39.44 | maxtim | what's a good, safe and reliable way to transfer a large file from one machine to another via VPN? I have a 200gb file I need tx'd to my office. I have a share mounted via mount.cifs. I have tried cp (not a good choice), and rsync, which I'm not entirely sure is working. Mainly because it took all day and only tx'd about a quater of the file. Tried to restart the transfer, but it did just that, restarted the entire transfer. So now I |
| 02:39.45 | maxtim | have a partial and a new partial.... |
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| 02:49.29 | sney | maxtim: rsync is pretty much the best option (try with -W if the destination doesn't have the file yet), and your weak point is probably cifs, which is known to misbehave over tunnels and anything other than a lan. |
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| 02:51.36 | rk4 | rsync is indeed nice and easy |
| 02:51.53 | sney | maxtim: if the receiving end is a windows workstation and you have rdp access, you might try with pscp.exe from the putty suite to grab the file in the other direction rather than trying to tangle with a smb share |
| 02:54.03 | maxtim | the flag -W reads 'copy files whole (w/o delta-xfer algorithm)' in the man page. What's the 'delta-xfer algorithm'? |
| 02:54.43 | sney | that's where rsync calculates the difference between a src and dest file and only sends the changed bits, or deltas |
| 02:54.57 | maxtim | ah |
| 02:55.26 | maxtim | so what if the xfer is interupted again? |
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| 02:59.12 | sney | if the xfer is interrupted with -W then you would have to start over. but the reason rsync took all day is because it was spending a lot of time calculating checksums, and -W skips that part of the process |
| 02:59.45 | maxtim | ah gotchya that makes a lot more sense |
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| 03:01.18 | sney | *and* the better advice here is to transfer over something other than cifs, if at all possible. |
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| 03:02.18 | maxtim | I could probably put up an nfs share. Or would that suffer the same or similar pitfalls? |
| 03:02.58 | sney | nfs is even dumber about unreliable links than smb. |
| 03:03.16 | maxtim | lol |
| 03:04.00 | sney | again, assuming the receiving end is a windows desktop of some sort - I'd say use pscp or filezilla, initiate the transfer from *that* end, downloading from your debian machine at home |
| 03:04.19 | sney | iirc filezilla can even resume partial transfers over sftp |
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| 03:06.06 | maxtim | I think the easiest way might be to just sneaker-network it in. But I'll look at filezilla if this becomes a recurring issue |
| 03:06.22 | invra | is there a phpmyadmin repo for buster 10? |
| 03:06.40 | sney | ,v phpmyadmin |
| 03:06.41 | judd | Package: phpmyadmin on amd64 -- jessie: 4:4.2.12-2+deb8u2; jessie-security: 4:4.2.12-2+deb8u9; stretch: 4:4.6.6-4+deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 4:4.6.6-4+deb9u1; buster-backports: 4:4.9.7+dfsg1-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 4:4.9.7+dfsg1-1; sid: 4:4.9.7+dfsg1-1 |
| 03:07.16 | invra | dunno if its a good idea to use backports on a saerver no? |
| 03:07.39 | sney | safer than a 3rd party repo |
| 03:08.21 | invra | i was thinking to jsut install it from the phpmyadmin site |
| 03:08.27 | invra | better to use backport? |
| 03:10.09 | sney | there's nothing inherently unsafe about backports, and I don't see any versioned dependencies here so it should install right alongside your existing php stack on buster |
| 03:10.34 | sney | it's better to use packaged software whenever possible. |
| 03:10.46 | invra | yeah easier to maintain for sure |
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| 03:19.24 | invra | ,v webmin |
| 03:19.25 | judd | No package named 'webmin' was found in amd64. |
| 03:19.34 | invra | doh |
| 03:19.59 | sney | webmin has been gone from debian for 10+ years, it's hideously insecure |
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| 03:20.35 | sponix | sney: I found something that will actually not work without systemd the other day. And I'm kinda bummed about it, because it looks pretty cool --> "cockpit" |
| 03:20.41 | invra | sney: really? and in these 10 years the development didnt get anywhere? |
| 03:21.06 | alex11 | the only thing with backports is that it's good not to install hundreds of them because eventually you will get dependency conflicts |
| 03:21.09 | alex11 | but basically it's fine |
| 03:21.27 | sney | running any WHCP without good access control is a recipe for disaster, but webmin was the worst of the bunch. anyway, most linux admins take the training wheels off and stop using any of that stuff pretty quickly |
| 03:24.50 | sney | invra: once a package is removed from debian, it starts over, and would have to go back through the wnpp process for approval in the archive. I guess it's possible that webmin isn't a backdoor-in-a-box anymore, but it also seems that nobody is interested in packaging it either |
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| 04:06.56 | invra | ,v wordpress |
| 04:06.57 | judd | Package: wordpress on amd64 -- jessie: 4.1+dfsg-1+deb8u17; jessie-security: 4.1.31+dfsg-0+deb8u1; stretch: 4.7.5+dfsg-2+deb9u6; stretch-proposed-updates: 4.7.5+dfsg-2+deb9u6; stretch-security: 4.7.5+dfsg-2+deb9u6; buster: 5.0.11+dfsg1-0+deb10u1; buster-security: 5.0.11+dfsg1-0+deb10u1; bullseye: 5.6+dfsg1-2; sid: 5.6+dfsg1-2 |
| 04:07.20 | invra | buah outdated |
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| 04:08.28 | quadrathoch2 | i guess somebody needs to backport it ^^ |
| 04:09.11 | sponix2ipfw | Friends don't let friends use WordPress |
| 04:09.37 | invra | i guess |
| 04:10.29 | quadrathoch2 | sponix2ipfw so what would you offer as an alternative ;) an easy blog system |
| 04:10.40 | invra | wordpress is fine |
| 04:11.30 | quadrathoch2 | it is, especially if you use a static site generator |
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| 04:19.59 | mehwork | #gcp is dead so asking here. It might be a debian question anyway i'm not sure. I just installed a debian instance on Google Cloud Compute Engine (GCE) and it never asked me to set my user's password. When i run 'passwd' it asks for my current password but i have no idea what it is. How would i find it? |
| 04:21.02 | mehwork | googling just turns up articles about how gce doesn't give your linux instance a _root_ password and to use 'sudo passwd' to set that, which I did. So maybe i can somehow use my root/sudo account to set my normal users password? |
| 04:22.20 | tomreyn | sudo getent shadow shows you which accounts have passwords set |
| 04:22.45 | tomreyn | sudo passwd $USER lets you set you users' password without knowing it if you have sudo access |
| 04:23.19 | tomreyn | but then sudo would ask for your users' password in the first place, unless it's setup as passwordless sudo |
| 04:23.42 | tomreyn | in the end things will matter on which image you chose to deploy |
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| 04:36.18 | Gerowen | Is there some group I could make my account a member of so that I wouldn't have to run virt-viewer/virt-manager as root? |
| 04:36.36 | Gerowen | It works fine, I'm just not fond of the idea of running a desktop application as root if I don't have to. |
| 04:40.49 | sponix | Gerowen: think there might be a libvirt group |
| 04:41.00 | sponix | or a qemu one |
| 04:42.46 | Gerowen | sponix: There is indeed, I'll try it out and see if that takes care of it, thanks, :-) |
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| 04:55.50 | mehwork | Gerowen: worked, thanks! |
| 04:56.41 | Gerowen | mehwork: I guess you had the same question I did? |
| 04:57.19 | b1ackandwh1te | virus detected in fresh installation of cygwin, https://pasteboard.co/JH7g0xG.png |
| 05:03.18 | sponix | b1ackandwh1te: I think you might be lost |
| 05:04.12 | b1ackandwh1te | ok this is not the right channel but i was up to communicate |
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| 05:08.46 | Gerowen | sponix: That did it; mine actually had two groups, libvirt and libvirt-qemu, so I just added my account to both of them and now I'm no longer prompted for the root password when opening virt-viewer. |
| 05:09.06 | sponix | Nice |
| 05:09.16 | mehwork | Gerowen: woops, i meant that for tomren |
| 05:16.34 | sponix | Gerowen: you using the qemu from the backports ? |
| 05:17.58 | Gerowen | sponix: Negative, just the regular one from stable. |
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| 05:19.46 | sponix | Gerowen: Just wondering -- I put in the initial request for the buster backports of it. I needed a higher version to run Mac OS well :) |
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| 06:39.03 | Jad | I'm having an issue with fonts rendering on Firefox ESR [screenshot] https://www.dropbox.com/s/3ujd6chixjotie7/Debian-Screenshot-20201229083354-447x149.png?dl=0 |
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| 09:16.14 | sgo11 | hi, can I check usb ports in lsblk? how can I determine which usb port the device sdb1 is using? |
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| 10:29.11 | Ede|Popede | sgo11: usb-devices (iirc there's also usbtree or similar, but not here right now at least) |
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| 10:37.34 | mindlessmiss | I get this error qwhen I try to download with synaptic, any ideas?.... W: Download is performed unsandboxed as root as file '/root/.synaptic/tmp//tmp_sh' couldn't be accessed by user '_apt'. - pkgAcquire::Run (13: Permission denied) |
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| 10:39.59 | jelly | mindlessmiss, are you starting synaptic as root? |
| 10:40.24 | antto | ,v oceanaudio |
| 10:40.25 | judd | No package named 'oceanaudio' was found in amd64. |
| 10:41.17 | jelly | mindlessmiss, it's not an error, it's a W arning |
| 10:41.31 | jelly | (should not be fatal) |
| 10:41.59 | sgo11 | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:42.58 | Ede|Popede | sgo11: ah cool. i really hate this hierarchy, always get stuck in the nested symlinks *g* |
| 10:43.50 | sgo11 | ^_^ |
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| 10:57.33 | mindlessmiss | jelly yes I did use sudo I remember now, simply because I could not get synaptic to start as it usually does, either by clicking the synaptic erntry in the app menu or pkexec synaptic |
| 10:57.45 | mindlessmiss | I now get pkexec /usr/sbin/synaptic |
| 10:57.45 | mindlessmiss | Error executing command as another user: Not authorized |
| 10:57.45 | mindlessmiss | This incident has been reported. |
| 10:57.45 | mindlessmiss | xmelzax@debian2020:~$ |
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| 10:58.10 | mindlessmiss | this is only started happeneng since I added a new user account to my system |
| 10:59.09 | mindlessmiss | it pops up asking for my password, I enter it as normal but it does not work anymore? |
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| 11:17.55 | epsilon | what's a minimalistic package containing "mail"? like for: echo foo | mail root |
| 11:19.08 | lithiumpt | s-nail ? |
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| 11:26.32 | jelly | judd, file bin/mailx |
| 11:26.38 | judd | No packages in buster/amd64 were found with that file. |
| 11:26.50 | jelly | ahh, alternatives |
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| 11:29.34 | jelly | judd, whatprovides mailx |
| 11:29.37 | judd | Package mailx in buster/amd64 is provided by: bsd-mailx, mailutils. |
| 11:29.58 | jelly | epsilon, bsd-mailx might be the smallest one |
| 11:30.12 | jelly | but you need a /usr/sbin/sendmail as well |
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| 11:36.54 | ratrace | for nice small sendmail implementation I recommend dma, but it requires an MTA somewhere, as it's a submission agent |
| 11:37.36 | skvl | Hello. I failed to build Xen source package with instructions like this `apt-get build-dep xen && apt-get source xen && cd xen-4.14.0+88-g1d1d1f5391 && debuild -b -uc -us` (as per https://wiki.debian.org/BuildingTutorial). The error (in short): `dh_missing: error: missing files, aborting`. How to build the package? Thanks! |
| 11:38.40 | ratrace | ,v xen |
| 11:38.41 | judd | No package named 'xen' was found in amd64. |
| 11:39.01 | skvl | o_O |
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| 11:40.04 | ratrace | oh xen is the source package.... v4.14 is bullseye's |
| 11:40.22 | ratrace | produces a buncha xen-something packages |
| 11:41.55 | skvl | @ratrace, yes. It have been downloaded. Though I failed to build it. |
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| 11:52.10 | epsilon | jelly: ah right, *mailx, forgot that name thx |
| 11:53.07 | epsilon | mailutils wanted to install maria/mysql-common and I was confused, like wtf why? |
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| 11:55.57 | jelly | ,depends mailutils |
| 11:55.58 | judd | Package mailutils in buster/amd64 -- depends: mailutils-common (= 1:3.5-4), guile-2.2-libs, libc6 (>= 2.14), libfribidi0 (>= 0.19.2), libgc1c2 (>= 1:7.2d), libgnutls30 (>= 3.6.5), libgsasl7 (>= 1.1), libkyotocabinet16v5 (>= 1.2.76), libldap-2.4-2 (>= 2.4.7), libmailutils5, libncurses6 (>= 6), libpam0g (>= 0.99.7.1), libpython2.7 (>= 2.7), libreadline7 (>= 6.0), libtinfo6 (>= 6), libwrap0 (>= 7.6-4~). |
| 11:56.16 | jelly | who can say |
| 11:56.22 | jelly | ,depends libmailutils5, |
| 11:56.23 | judd | No package named 'libmailutils5,' was found in buster/amd64. |
| 11:56.25 | jelly | ,depends libmailutils5 |
| 11:56.26 | judd | Package libmailutils5 in buster/amd64 -- depends: mailutils-common (= 1:3.5-4), guile-2.2-libs, libc6 (>= 2.27), libgc1c2 (>= 1:7.2d), libgnutls30 (>= 3.6.6), libgsasl7 (>= 1.1), libkyotocabinet16v5 (>= 1.2.76), libldap-2.4-2 (>= 2.4.7), libltdl7 (>= 2.4.6), libmariadb3 (>= 3.0.0), libpam0g (>= 0.99.7.1), libpython2.7 (>= 2.7). |
| 11:56.50 | jelly | that's why, some of those have mariadb support apparently |
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| 12:26.25 | nifker | I have a machine where I needed to kill apt when it was installing/configuring packages, how can I install/configure the remaining ones? |
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| 12:27.38 | petn-randall | nifker: `dpkg --configure -a`, followed by `apt-get install -f` should do the trick. |
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| 12:28.26 | nifker | nothing to do but my lighttpd server keeps crashing after start |
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| 12:28.55 | ratrace | nifker: check its logs and see why it's crashing |
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| 12:30.34 | nifker | one error I can find is: "2020-12-29 02:12:41: (mod_openssl.c.1797) SSL: 1 error:1417A0C1:SSL routines:tls_post_process_client_hello:no shared cipher" |
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| 12:33.04 | abrotman | nifker: is that at start? or after a connection is made? |
| 12:35.44 | skvl | So where I could ask Xen build related questions? |
| 12:36.31 | nifker | seems like the upgrade didnt install mod_openssl for lighttpd, which made it crash when trying to access the dynamic lib |
| 12:37.04 | ratrace | skvl: maybe in debian (devel) channels on OFTC |
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| 12:37.42 | skvl | ratrace: thanks! |
| 12:37.50 | petn-randall | skvl: Can you show us the complete build error? |
| 12:37.51 | ratrace | there's even #debian-xen there |
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| 12:43.05 | skvl | petn-randall: https://gist.github.com/skvl/cd046b6302f5e808acf3ed2cf9dc17e8 |
| 12:47.33 | discovered | I really need to solve one problem with my debian system. I have Logitec Wireless keyboard and mouse. Both device randomly lagging(Slow or no response) suddenly. I have tried to fix with disabling wayland but no luck. I don't know what to try. It is more worse if i open multiple application such as virtualization. Need a help to fix this! |
| 12:48.02 | ratrace | discovered: did you move the most obvious out of the way: batteries? |
| 12:48.20 | discovered | ratrace, I am using Desktop |
| 12:48.44 | ratrace | and your _wireless_ devices are powered how? portable micro fusion reactors in them? |
| 12:48.56 | petn-randall | skvl: I'm trying to build it myself, to check if the issue is reproducible. Might take a bit. |
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| 12:50.10 | Ede|Popede | discovered: same here (on the air gapped PC). had the problems from the beginning, i suspect the connection, may not be as good as advertised. |
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| 12:50.59 | discovered | ratrace, i Don't know that. https://www.logitech.sale/products/wireless-mouse-m275 |
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| 12:51.49 | Ede|Popede | works mostly, but sometimes y start typing and nothing happens. usually it helps to wag the keyboard facing it to the receiver. which i had on the backside first, but then moved it to a slot at the front side. made things already much better. |
| 12:51.55 | petn-randall | skvl: Btw, don't build as root, that's a bad habit. :) |
| 12:51.57 | discovered | I got a additional device which pluged in usb 2. Tried in different usb interface. Same issue! |
| 12:52.00 | ratrace | discovered: but what do you _think_ the devices are powered with? Check the batteries first. Most of the issues I ever saw with wireless devices were poor batteries |
| 12:52.05 | discovered | Look like same issue: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/539790/debian-10-mouse-lagging |
| 12:53.21 | petn-randall | skvl: I see you're trying to build xen from testing. What are you building it on? stable? |
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| 12:53.48 | discovered | Ede|Popede, The device in Front side. Only distance from the keyboard and mouse about 1 fit. |
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| 12:55.17 | petn-randall | discovered: Before we start debugging, did you follow ratrace's advice and check the batteries? |
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| 12:56.08 | Ede|Popede | discovered: not much more here, only the angle is pretty insane. maybe 30° instead of 90° measured at the front of the pc. but the gif on SE looks like a non-related issue, one i'm having on this old machine more than on the other one. old, slow, cheap graphics card. acceleration? who knows. |
| 12:56.29 | discovered | petn-randall, Yes. I have two set of wireless device. Both are acting same. I am trying with a new one which i purchased about 4 days ago |
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| 12:57.24 | petn-randall | discovered: Do you have a cabled mouse to test? So we can check that it's related to your mouse and not the hardware acceleration. |
| 12:57.59 | discovered | petn-randall, Yes that is what i have used before without any issue! Cabled keyboard/mouse working fine |
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| 12:58.27 | discovered | petn-randall, Should I plug it for debugging purpose now? |
| 12:58.47 | Ede|Popede | discovered, did you try it right after login before you start something like a browser? |
| 12:59.18 | petn-randall | discovered: If you've tested in today we don't need to test it again. |
| 12:59.32 | discovered | Ede|Popede, Yes. Not that worse when i start using other applications |
| 12:59.33 | ratrace | assuming langauge barrier and not really seeing a proper confirmation, I really still think the devices don't have new batteries inserted. those that come with purchased device, if at all, are usually dead on arrival |
| 12:59.54 | discovered | petn-randall, No i did not test it today... Let me test it again then |
| 12:59.55 | ratrace | or just explicitly confirm this and I'll stfu about them batteries :) |
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| 13:00.50 | Ede|Popede | ratrace: not in mine. bought the set some time ago, still using the first set. only having this communication problem, but definitely not battery related. maybe legislation here is just more consumer friendly. |
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| 13:01.59 | Ede|Popede | btw, what about rechargables? years ago i was trying to use them for whatever digital device it was and it turned out to be a not so good idea. 1.2V vs 1.5V (nominal) and under load going down even more. |
| 13:02.17 | petn-randall | skvl: It builds fine here on bullseye. |
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| 13:02.49 | discovered | petn-randall, Cabled device are fine |
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| 13:04.09 | ratrace | Ede|Popede: the issue with bats is what made me toss the wireless things into nearest recycling bin and get me good old cabled things |
| 13:04.19 | skvl | petn-randall: I build it under Docker |
| 13:04.56 | skvl | petn-randall: I build it in sid |
| 13:05.34 | ratrace | Ede|Popede: put new duracell things in them, lasts for a few weeks. them batteries were still good-ish, and I suspect poor power handling in the (admittedly) cheap-o mice, no gating so it deteriorates over time |
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| 13:07.36 | skvl | petn-randall: could You share all instructions used to download and build the Xen please? And describe the environment too. Thanks a lot. |
| 13:08.32 | petn-randall | skvl: It's a sid sbuild. It will install all the required dependencies and the build the package and run piuparts. |
| 13:08.52 | petn-randall | skvl: Is your sid up-to-date? Did you install all the build requirements? |
| 13:11.10 | skvl | petn-randall: I have downloaded recent Docker `debian:sid`, update system with `apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade` and perform `apt-get build-dep xen && apt-get source xen && cd xen-4.14.0+88-g1d1d1f5391 && debuild -b -uc -us` |
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| 13:15.45 | petn-randall | skvl: Only glaring difference I see is that you're building with root. |
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| 13:17.45 | skvl | petn-randall: Thanks. I would try to test with regular user. |
| 13:18.40 | petn-randall | skvl: In my build logs the step where you error out runs through fine. So apparently in my build the files got installed to a package fine. |
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| 13:27.36 | Ede|Popede | ratrace: i'll check occasionally when i bought it, i have to find the bill. batteries was the reason why it took me so long to take this path, i remember people changing their batteries all the time as well as the desperate look for a wall socket as soon as they get through the door. early "smart"phones ;) |
| 13:31.21 | ratrace | heh yeah |
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| 13:52.01 | PaddyF | hello. my PC uses a Radeon RX590 and i would like to run it without installing the firmware-linux-nonfree and firmware-amd-graphics packages. could somebody guide me, please? |
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| 13:53.33 | tomreyn | i don't think that's going to work out well, PaddyF. maybe if you use it for compute only it might work. |
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| 13:54.28 | PaddyF | i always thought the nouveau driver is for both ventors but it isnt ::( |
| 13:55.03 | tomreyn | it isn't, but even if it was, that wouildn'T mean it would work without firmware blobs |
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| 13:55.25 | PaddyF | true, hmmm. impossible mission then? |
| 13:56.51 | tomreyn | you'd need to buy different hardware, i think. i'm not sure whether there is a well performing open source graphics stack which does not depend on binary blobs. |
| 13:57.41 | tomreyn | you can try justmoving the firmware blobs out of the way |
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| 13:58.10 | tomreyn | but it'll porbably just break it or make it fall back to an old and buggy one which is included in its firmware |
| 13:58.21 | tomreyn | i mean its on-hardware firmware |
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| 13:59.08 | PaddyF | the whole idea is very naive, i see that now |
| 13:59.23 | petn-randall | PaddyF: Your GPU is already running with non-free firmware. The one that is burned in. So there's little benefit of not installing firmware-linux-nonfree. |
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| 14:15.28 | discovered_ | petn-randall, We wanted to debug my mouse issue! If you forgot |
| 14:16.56 | petn-randall | discovered_: Did you check the system logs for any errors regarding your mouse? |
| 14:17.04 | ratrace | discovered_: I know I'm annoying, but you never confirmed that you actually put in fresh new batteries. I'm still betting on that to be the cause. |
| 14:18.10 | discovered_ | ratrace, You i mean, At first i should put a new battery? Then i have to get one first |
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| 14:18.39 | ratrace | discovered_: well yes, that's what I've been trying to tell you all this time. Put in new ones, confirm that you did so and confirm that it did or did not solve your issue. |
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| 14:19.26 | discovered_ | ratrace, Okay, I will get one and test it |
| 14:20.06 | simpledat | How do I install pyton 3.6.1? |
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| 14:21.03 | ratrace | ,v python3 |
| 14:21.04 | judd | Package: python3 on amd64 -- jessie: 3.4.2-2; stretch: 3.5.3-1; buster: 3.7.3-1; bullseye: 3.9.0-4; sid: 3.9.1-1 |
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| 14:21.44 | ratrace | simpledat: from sources most likely, and be careful you don't do that as root, or install system-wide. why do you need _that_ particular version? |
| 14:22.07 | simpledat | python3 is already the newest version (3.5.3-1). |
| 14:22.30 | simpledat | ratrace: Why not as root? |
| 14:22.37 | dvs | simpledat: but you are using Debian 9 in that case. |
| 14:22.42 | simpledat | I need it for electrum bitcoin wallet |
| 14:22.45 | ratrace | because you risk clobbering your packaged system python which will break everything python related |
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| 14:23.48 | simpledat | How do I do when I need a newer python version? |
| 14:24.43 | ratrace | maybe you can backport 3.7 from buster |
| 14:24.56 | ratrace | do you really need 3.6.1 or do you just need 3.6+ ? |
| 14:25.27 | simpledat | 3.6.1 |
| 14:26.04 | ratrace | I somehow really doubt you need that one specific version |
| 14:26.14 | ratrace | it's more likely it needs features of 3.6 or newer |
| 14:26.33 | simpledat | Error: Electrum requires Python version >= 3.6.1... |
| 14:26.52 | dvs | simpledat: See? greater than too |
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| 14:27.37 | ratrace | simpledat: right so chances are 3.7 from buster would work |
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| 14:28.24 | simpledat | Can you please tell me how I download it? |
| 14:29.37 | ratrace | simpledat: I'd try something along these lines: https://stackoverflow.com/a/11301911 download the source tarbal and build into a local folder, THEN create a virtualenv based on that compiled python version, so you have it all bundled in a single subdirectory |
| 14:30.30 | simpledat | # stretch-backports |
| 14:30.30 | simpledat | deb http://httpredir.debian.org/debian stretch-backports main contrib non-free |
| 14:30.34 | ratrace | or try backporting the debian package from buster. the fact there's no 3.7 in stretch backports already makes me wonder if there's something preventing the backport. but maybe it's as simple as running: |
| 14:30.36 | simpledat | Can I download it from this one? |
| 14:30.38 | ratrace | !ssb |
| 14:30.39 | dpkg | First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>. |
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| 14:31.53 | simpledat | How do I downlaod python from deb http://httpredir.debian.org/debian stretch-backports |
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| 14:33.08 | ratrace | simpledat: you don't, without making a mess of dependencies |
| 14:33.48 | ratrace | openssl for starters.... I'd _really_ just recommend a simple build into a local dir as mentioned in the stackoverflow link I posted above |
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| 14:41.03 | jelly | ,v python3 |
| 14:41.04 | judd | Package: python3 on amd64 -- jessie: 3.4.2-2; stretch: 3.5.3-1; buster: 3.7.3-1; bullseye: 3.9.0-4; sid: 3.9.1-1 |
| 14:41.26 | ratrace | judd: checkbackport python3.7 --fromrelease buster --torelease stretch |
| 14:41.27 | judd | Backporting package python3.7 in busterâstretch/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using stretch. |
| 14:41.29 | jelly | simpledat, there is no bakcport of python3 in stretch-backports |
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| 14:41.41 | jelly | and you don't want to replace the system python anyway |
| 14:42.09 | ratrace | jelly: they can't coinstall, right? if python3.7 was backported, it exludes all other versions? |
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| 14:42.34 | jelly | FIIK |
| 14:43.03 | simpledat | So how can I run electrum on my computer then? |
| 14:43.46 | ratrace | right, so two options: 1) try the backport route, which requires installing build deps and messing with system pkgs, or 2) do what the SO answer linked above recommends, download tarball, build in a dir, create virtualenv of it, boundle it all together |
| 14:44.24 | ratrace | building it might _still_ require build deps preinstalled, so maybe stretch's 3.5 can be reused |
| 14:45.16 | ratrace | option 3) debootstrap a buster or sid chroot, install and run there. you can use the deboostrap'd dir with a local systemd namespaced service |
| 14:45.23 | simpledat | I have no clue how to do it |
| 14:45.33 | ratrace | learn it :) |
| 14:45.44 | simpledat | What would be easiest for me? |
| 14:45.59 | ratrace | maybe option 3) |
| 14:46.57 | ratrace | no building required, no pollution with packages from build deps. just a single dir debootstrapped with Buster, chroot into it to instlal your wallet, and if that's a service, you can make a service unit on your host to use the chroot |
| 14:47.08 | jelly | simpledat, set up a nspawn container or chroot for debian 10 and run in there |
| 14:47.37 | simpledat | jelly: Can you please guide me how to do it? |
| 14:47.41 | jelly | no |
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| 14:47.51 | jelly | I'm more of a general idea person |
| 14:47.59 | ratrace | yeah use systemd-nspawn(1) instead of chroot(8), I'm just using the old terminolog |
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| 14:49.58 | jelly | (mine are still in chroots, because debian 7 host, or, in some places, worse than 7) |
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| 14:50.26 | DanteD | bullseye/testing mounting exfat usb stick: "mount: /mnt: unknown filesystem type 'exfat'." I have exfat-utils and exfat-fuse installed. I also tried exfatprogs. Any ideas? |
| 14:50.42 | ratrace | jelly: that's terrible and totally not scoring you any bragging rights :) |
| 14:51.20 | simpledat | How do I run a AppImage? |
| 14:51.41 | ratrace | simpledat: there's an appimage of your program? |
| 14:51.44 | DanteD | hmm actually I probably have custom kernel that might cause this |
| 14:51.50 | jelly | ratrace, sure but it's funny how well a buster chroot works on squeeze |
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| 14:52.27 | ratrace | "well" :) |
| 14:52.59 | ratrace | if by "well" you mean it didn't segfault.... then I can imagine it, yes :) |
| 14:53.13 | asymptotically | DanteD: make sure you have CONFIG_FUSE_FS enabled or as a module in your kernel config. also if you have a newer kernel, i think there might be an exfat module in there now |
| 14:53.18 | ratrace | missing kernel options are gonna wreck any other concepts of "well" |
| 14:54.03 | simpledat | ratrace: yes |
| 14:54.26 | DanteD | asymptotically: thanks |
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| 14:54.44 | DanteD | Is linux-image-5.9.0-5 current for bullsye now? |
| 14:54.55 | ratrace | simpledat: then you'll have to ask google how to run appimage thinkgs on debian. and now you've made me go check, there's also snap of it, so if you want snaps, that's two commands to install it :) |
| 14:54.56 | greycat | ,kernels |
| 14:54.57 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.10.0-trunk-686 (5.10.2-1~exp1); sid: 5.9.0-5-686 (5.9.15-1); bullseye: 5.9.0-5-686 (5.9.15-1); buster-backports: 5.9.0-0.bpo.2-686 (5.9.6-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-13-686-pae (4.19.160-2); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.13-686 (4.19.160-2~deb9u1); jessie-backports: |
| 14:54.58 | judd | 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1) |
| 14:55.30 | ratrace | simpledat: apt install snapd ; snap install electrum ; then probably run /snaps/bin/electrum or something like that |
| 14:55.33 | DanteD | ok, so yes |
| 14:56.39 | n4dir | simpledat: ./AppImage . At least that is what i do with the one AppImage i have here |
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| 14:57.26 | ratrace | maybe I should really default to checking if there's a snap or flatpak of any unpackaged program asked to be installed.... |
| 14:57.56 | simpledat | What's the different between installing it and run it as appimage? |
| 14:58.43 | ratrace | an appimage (or flatpak, or snap) is a containerized "package" that includes everything needed to run a program. they're mini-operating-systems, without the kernel |
| 14:59.18 | ratrace | simpledat: same thing you'd get if you debootstrapped buster, then used nspawn to start a shell in it, and install your wallet, then run the wallet in that "chroot" or nspawn namespace |
| 14:59.22 | n4dir | VCVRack Appimage sure doesn't contain alsa or jack. But i guess yes, that is the general idea |
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| 15:00.12 | simpledat | is it more or less secure to run it as appimage? |
| 15:00.13 | ratrace | alsa or jack are interfaces usually expected to exist on the host, and require kernel modules (alsa at least) so they can't be containerized anyway |
| 15:00.23 | simpledat | I mean, is it better to install it then run it as appimage? |
| 15:00.44 | n4dir | hence calling it a mini-operating-system is a bit of a stretch |
| 15:00.54 | greycat | micro- |
| 15:01.00 | ratrace | containerized programs have security advantages, yes, as they're contain(eriz)ed inside a single filesystem, process and uid namespace |
| 15:01.18 | ratrace | n4dir: right. it's a "close enough" analogy |
| 15:01.39 | ratrace | and _some_ containers are behemoths of literally entire installation of , say, debian, sans the kernel |
| 15:02.15 | ratrace | that happens when people abuse containers and dockers, to run them as VMs, ssh into them etc... |
| 15:02.33 | n4dir | close enough for me too. As long i got other options, i would use those. For Rack i haven't. But i don't really know bout AppImages, besides that. |
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| 15:03.17 | ratrace | I have no experience with AppImages but from what I've read .... they're maybe most preferable if you want as simple as possible, as they don't come with all the logistics and infra overhead of, say, snaps |
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| 15:07.26 | n4dir | For this one AppImage it kinda is straight forward. Though i need a wrapper script or always run it from the directory where it is stored. But that is probably this AppImage only. |
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| 15:07.45 | n4dir | short: yes, looks simple to me |
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| 15:54.05 | unixbsd | hello, in debian repos, is there an alternative to gnumeric and libreoffice spreadsheet. are there other applications, available from repository? |
| 15:56.44 | ratrace | iirc gnumeric was _the_ localc alternative. what's wrong with it? |
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| 16:00.19 | routebee | heya peeps... could someone do me a quick favour to see if i am missing something in my ongoing struggle |
| 16:00.53 | routebee | could you type sudo apt-get search snort on a debian box and see if plain old snort appears |
| 16:01.28 | routebee | i have added the debian repos to my nonstandard box and i cant find snort |
| 16:01.35 | greycat | you don't need sudo to do an apt-cache search |
| 16:01.43 | routebee | whatever |
| 16:01.56 | routebee | is snort there? |
| 16:02.14 | greycat | you want to know if there is a package named "snort", with no other characters? we can do that here: |
| 16:02.17 | greycat | ,v snort |
| 16:02.18 | judd | Package: snort on amd64 -- buster: 2.9.7.0-5; stretch: 2.9.7.0-5; bullseye: 2.9.15.1-4; sid: 2.9.15.1-4 |
| 16:02.59 | routebee | why is my system not finding it then? |
| 16:03.09 | ratrace | did you forget to apt update |
| 16:03.11 | greycat | because you forgot to do "apt-get update"? |
| 16:03.20 | routebee | that could be it |
| 16:04.41 | routebee | fook yeah |
| 16:04.45 | routebee | thanks guys |
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| 16:16.26 | ratrace | fascinating. |
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| 16:30.57 | Ingvix | hmm, if I want a selective vpn connection is my best choice to set up a minimal virtual machine that's running openvpn client and proxy server or are there other ways? the vpn server is not my own |
| 16:33.35 | sney | not a proxy, but a router/firewall using iptables to selectively direct traffic over the tunnel |
| 16:33.50 | sney | I have mine set up on a mikrotik router but it's the same principle |
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| 16:36.07 | Ingvix | I see. I have an openwrt router that could probably do that |
| 16:36.25 | Ingvix | but I've no prior experience with iptables |
| 16:36.54 | PaddyF | my network seems to work but i get this strange "unable to start Raise network" errors. how can i troubleshoot that, please? |
| 16:37.17 | Ingvix | I have to look into that |
| 16:37.30 | Ingvix | iptables, that is |
| 16:37.48 | sney | there's lots of good iptables documentation out there, start at netfilter.org |
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| 16:38.12 | PaddyF | or take the easy road to "ufw" |
| 16:38.24 | sney | your openwrt device may be a good choice, or not, vpn encryption has significant cpu overhead |
| 16:39.55 | Ingvix | well I could also set it up on my general-purpose/media server that's currently directing everything to vpn and I also have a proxy on it that I've used so far |
| 16:40.11 | Ingvix | but now I'd like to have more control on the server on what goes where |
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| 16:43.20 | PaddyF | whats a Raise network? |
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| 16:54.58 | Azrael_- | hi |
| 16:55.19 | Azrael_- | is it possible to install openjdk 8 and 11 side by side on stretch? |
| 16:55.58 | petn-randall | Azrael_-: If the packages don't conflict I'd expect them to. |
| 16:56.20 | sney | openjdk packages are versioned, so you can install them side by side, though a given debian release usually only has one version available |
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| 16:59.13 | Azrael_- | sney: correct, that's what i also realized. that's why i'm asking how i could accomplish this. got a software which only runs on jdk8 but another software which runs properly on jdk11. thus i want to use both at the same time in the same machine |
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| 17:05.50 | jelly | ,v openjdk-8-jdk |
| 17:05.51 | judd | Package: openjdk-8-jdk on amd64 -- stretch-proposed-updates: 8u242-b08-1~deb9u1; stretch: 8u252-b09-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 8u252-b09-1~deb9u1; sid: 8u275-b01-1 |
| 17:06.11 | jelly | that doesn't look too updated |
| 17:06.16 | jelly | except for the sid build |
| 17:06.41 | jelly | asks the lts people |
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| 17:09.24 | jelly | Azrael_-, if your service does not deal with untrusted inputs and is not exposed to the internet, you could add stretch repos back to sources.list and use the binary pacakges from there. |
| 17:09.58 | jelly | Azrael_-, you could also set up a separate stretch environment (like a chroot, or a systemd-nspawn container) |
| 17:10.40 | jelly | Azrael_-, adding repos for the OLDER debian release to mix with current release isn't too horrible an idea |
| 17:10.53 | jelly | unlike adding anything NEWER |
| 17:13.06 | Azrael_- | so i probably won't have that much of problems if i want to upgrade debian lateron and won't get screamed at for using a "frankendebian" :) |
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| 17:17.28 | greycat | having leftover old packages is fine and normal |
| 17:17.58 | greycat | intentionally *adding* old packages because the newer ones don't work or don't exist is... less normal, but can be fine as long as you know what you're doing |
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| 17:20.30 | prometheanfire | is 4.19 the 'newest' kernel available via official repos for stretch (including stretch-backports)? |
| 17:20.53 | greycat | it's a buster kernel, so it makes sense that it's what you get in stretch-backports |
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| 17:22.32 | Azrael_- | ok, thanks a lot for the feedback. just found out the old software didn't look for openjdk8 but oracle java 1.8 and i just downloaded+extracted it into a self contained folder. and it works like this |
| 17:22.45 | prometheanfire | having a kernel version locked to a distro release just seems odd to me (coming from gentoo...) |
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| 17:23.06 | sney | Azrael_-: there's a 'java-package' utility that can turn those oracle tarballs into a .deb for better organization |
| 17:23.07 | greycat | you're allowed to use other kernels, if you can get them to work |
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| 17:23.23 | prometheanfire | ya |
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| 17:23.31 | routebee | side topic... |
| 17:23.39 | Azrael_- | sney: interesting |
| 17:23.52 | n4dir | coming from gentoo getting them to work shouldn't be too hard. |
| 17:24.05 | sney | !kernel handbook |
| 17:24.05 | dpkg | The Debian Linux Kernel Handbook http://kernel-handbook.debian.net/ - packaged as debian-kernel-handbook since Debian 7 "Wheezy" - serves as a single access point to all kernel-related documentation. See chapter 4.2 to rebuild official Debian kernel packages, see chapter 4.5 to build a custom kernel from Debian kernel source. |
| 17:24.08 | routebee | what installer do i need to install just a terminal with wlan0 and dpkg? |
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| 17:24.31 | sney | routebee: any installer can give you that, just unselect all of the tasks at the software selection dialog |
| 17:24.32 | alexrelis[m] | I have the KDE minimal package installed. Why is it when I remove kde-screenshot or juk, it tells me that a whole bunch of dependencies are not needed and says that an autoremove would get rid of them? |
| 17:24.35 | greycat | All the installers give you the same choices at the end. The only difference is how many packages are physically on the medium. |
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| 17:24.51 | prometheanfire | routebee: yep, was considering that, but 'official' is better |
| 17:24.57 | n4dir | for wlan you might need that thing everyone always mentions. firmware or such? |
| 17:25.15 | n4dir | non-free isos ? Someone here knows |
| 17:25.24 | greycat | Depends on the hardware, but typically yes. |
| 17:25.27 | greycat | !firmware images |
| 17:25.27 | dpkg | There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/ The images are "unofficial" because "official Debian" includes only 100% free software. They are otherwise identical to the normal installer images and prepared by the same Debian Developers. See <check iso>. |
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| 17:25.56 | sney | yeah, the only wifi adapters that *don't* need non-free firmware are ath5k and ath9k, and those are pretty old now. ath9k only goes up to 802.11n |
| 17:26.07 | greycat | For the question that was asked here, the netinst with nonfree firmware sounds like the best pick. |
| 17:26.07 | n4dir | if all one wants is terminal wlan and dpkg, then deborphan installation might be a choice |
| 17:26.31 | n4dir | but then: why the trouble ... |
| 17:27.47 | unixbsd | hello, in debian repos, is there an alternative to gnumeric and libreoffice spreadsheet. are there other applications, available from repository? |
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| 17:28.15 | sney | !debtags |
| 17:28.15 | dpkg | rumour has it, debtags is a way of categorising packages with tags (facets) that describe how a package can be used, what data it can read/write, what interfaces it has etc. This adds another dimension to package searching. Install the debtags package, then search either using "debtags" or "aptitude". For a GUI install packagesearch. Search (or add new tags) at http://debtags.debian.net/ . See also http://wiki.debian.org/Debtags or ask me about ... |
| 17:28.36 | sney | I can't think of any other spreadsheet apps offhand but this should be a good way to find out, unixbsd ^ |
| 17:28.39 | greycat | sounds like overcomplicating to me. just do a netinst and pick "Standard" at the end. |
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| 17:29.50 | n4dir | some are weird and think they want to do as minimal as possible. Just a sidenote, i would always go the usual route too |
| 17:30.40 | greycat | if you want even less than Standard, you can un-check Standard too, and get a true bare bones installation |
| 17:31.14 | n4dir | did that exactly once. Only to figure out that is really not what i would want. |
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| 17:32.46 | sney | another thing you only do once is disable recommends by default |
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| 17:42.40 | NetTerminalGene | how can i see when a file downloaded? |
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| 17:43.00 | greycat | !wayttd |
| 17:43.00 | dpkg | What Are You Trying To Do? |
| 17:43.14 | NetTerminalGene | greycat: me? |
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| 17:43.18 | greycat | yeah you |
| 17:43.27 | greycat | your question is such a gigantic X-Y... |
| 17:43.30 | NetTerminalGene | i want to know when i downloaded a compressed file |
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| 17:43.45 | Poster | you can run "stat filename" |
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| 17:44.08 | greycat | how about "ls -l filename"? that shows you the last modification time. if you didn't modify it after "download", then that should be what you want. |
| 17:45.01 | greycat | unless of course the thing you used to "download" the file altered the timestamp after the download, to match the timestamp on the source file. some of them do that. in that case, there is NOTHING that stores the metadata you want. |
| 17:45.26 | greycat | unless it's in ctime, but even then you're just rolling dice. |
| 17:45.37 | greycat | ctime will be updated whenever you chmod or whatever. |
| 17:45.41 | dff | which approaches are viable if i want to move debian from sdc to sdb? |
| 17:46.02 | greycat | !xy |
| 17:46.02 | dpkg | Slow down for a bit! Are you sure that you need to jump through that particular hoop to achieve your goal? We suspect you don't, so why don't you back up a bit and tell us about the overall objective... We know that people often falsely diagnose problems because they are too close to them -- it's easy to miss that there is a better way to proceed. See http://mywiki.wooledge.org/XyProblem |
| 17:46.18 | greycat | the question that was asked is SO incredibly convoluted and vague that it has to be an X-Y |
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| 17:47.35 | dff | i also want to move windows from sdb to sdc, i have sda as a spare that can act as inter store. |
| 17:47.42 | dff | clonezilla live? |
| 17:47.48 | dff | gparted? |
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| 17:47.56 | Poster | I've had pretty good success with clonezilla here |
| 17:47.58 | dff | gui is a plus, live usb works |
| 17:48.20 | *** join/#debian grobi2 (~rtng@unaffiliated/grobi) |
| 17:48.45 | ratrace | indeed such a vague question can be answered simply: swap the SATA ports between them |
| 17:49.32 | greycat | I was still referring to the one from NetTerminalGene actually. |
| 17:50.01 | greycat | But yeah, the one about "make sdb sdc and make sdc sdb" is also an X-Y candidate. |
| 17:50.36 | ratrace | xy detectors abuzz |
| 17:51.16 | NetTerminalGene | greycat: man, there is a file in my computer. i want to know when it is created or copied, or downloaded. is it too complicated? |
| 17:51.23 | greycat | YESQW |
| 17:51.26 | greycat | YES IT IS! |
| 17:51.38 | NetTerminalGene | -_- |
| 17:52.35 | NetTerminalGene | i say, i downloaded a file in my computer in past. now i want to know when the file touched my disk |
| 17:53.26 | Ede|Popede | wouldn't this be birth time? |
| 17:53.38 | greycat | Maybe. |
| 17:53.55 | dff | sorry i want to clone debian (currently on a 1TB SDD) to an SSD with 500gb. That SSD has windows on, it want windows on the SSD debian currently is on. I have an unused 1TB spinning disk that can work as temp storage |
| 17:53.55 | NetTerminalGene | Ede|Popede: * |
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| 17:54.23 | dff | sorry i cant edit those typos, try to make sense of it |
| 17:54.28 | Ede|Popede | `stat ~` on my ext4 â Birth: - |
| 17:54.35 | ratrace | $32k question. is birth time the time of first byte or last byte :) |
| 17:54.46 | greycat | NetTerminalGene: Unix stores 3 timestamps for each file. None of them is what you want. Linux ext4 adds a 4th one called "birth time". No standard unix tool can display it. It may or may not be what you want. Did you try "ls -l" yet? It might work. Or it might not. |
| 17:55.06 | jelly | Ede|Popede, stat userspace in buster does not know the correct way to ask kernel for that info |
| 17:55.17 | jelly | !crtime |
| 17:55.18 | dpkg | Some filesystems may store creation time after all, even if POSIX APIs don't expose it. Ext4 does. E.g., to check how long ago your root filesystem root directory was created: f="/"; dev=`df -P "$f"|tail -n1|awk '{print $1}'`; i=`stat -c%i "$f"`; sudo debugfs -R"stat <$i>" "$dev" 2>&1|grep ^crtime |
| 17:55.21 | jelly | Ede|Popede, ^ |
| 17:55.31 | Ede|Popede | is it even in the kernel? afaik linus refuses for whatever reason atm |
| 17:56.05 | jelly | yes, glibc and userspace will have it, not sure if bullseye but bookworm for sure |
| 17:56.37 | jelly | Ede|Popede, many Bothans died to bring you that onelines |
| 17:56.44 | jelly | oneliner* |
| 17:56.53 | NetTerminalGene | greycat: wtf is that? nevermind, i gave up |
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| 17:57.43 | jelly | f="$HOME"; ... crtime: 0x55b8befb:80041fdc -- Wed Jul 29 13:54:35 2015 |
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| 17:57.53 | NetTerminalGene | it is ridiculous my computer doesn't know when the file was created |
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| 17:58.11 | greycat | HE LEARNS! It it a christmas miracle! |
| 17:58.21 | jelly | NetTerminalGene, are you not reading what other people write in the channel |
| 17:58.49 | NetTerminalGene | that's what i conclude after reading them |
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| 17:59.13 | jelly | NetTerminalGene, then forget people, go read what dpkg, the bot, said |
| 17:59.23 | greycat | bots are people too |
| 17:59.25 | b-04 | hi to all |
| 17:59.25 | Ede|Popede | jelly: i honor this sacrifice. later i'll try to encrypt this fine oneliner ⥠|
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| 18:00.09 | Sarcutus | Pardon me all, idiotic question here -- is there a package in the repo for a system tray in Debian? I'm using Debian/GNU Linux DI Alpha-3 Skolelinux. |
| 18:00.15 | jelly | did not notice NTG asked the question |
| 18:00.22 | NetTerminalGene | jelly: i am not gonna enter that command in any way |
| 18:00.24 | b-04 | why not found? tar zcfv nginx_proxy.tar.gz . --exclude='./logs' |
| 18:00.31 | b-04 | i need to exclude logs directory |
| 18:00.32 | jelly | !pal NetTerminalGene |
| 18:00.32 | dpkg | points at NetTerminalGene and laughs hysterically |
| 18:00.39 | greycat | !skolelinux |
| 18:00.39 | dpkg | Skolelinux is a Debian Pure <Blend> produced by the <Debian Edu> project, see http://www.skolelinux.org/ for more details. For user/admin support, join #skolelinux on irc.oftc.net. |
| 18:01.05 | jelly | we're bound to support pure blends |
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| 18:01.17 | greycat | so I've heard... but do any of us actually know this one? |
| 18:01.28 | NetTerminalGene | jelly: man, have you felt earthquake? |
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| 18:01.53 | jelly | Sarcutus, but we don't know which desktop environment it uses, and there are multiple systray implementations |
| 18:02.13 | jelly | NetTerminalGene, no, I'm 200km away from the right now |
| 18:02.14 | Sarcutus | Hah ... I figured it wasn't really Debian ... |
| 18:02.20 | jelly | epicentre* |
| 18:02.37 | Sarcutus | jelly: It defaults with Xfce. But I have a number of DEs and WMs on it. |
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| 18:03.25 | ratrace | b-04: ENOCONTEXT |
| 18:03.55 | jelly | Sarcutus, xfce should have a system tray thing for the panel |
| 18:04.05 | jelly | not sure if it's there by default |
| 18:04.13 | b-04 | im in the directory, have some files and folders, and have a folder called "logs" and subfolders in logs, i need to exclude the logs folder |
| 18:04.14 | Sarcutus | jelly: I know. My problem is with MATE and GNOME. |
| 18:04.20 | b-04 | tar zcfv nginx_proxy.tar.gz . --exclude='./logs' |
| 18:04.36 | b-04 | my pwd is the directory |
| 18:04.53 | b-04 | i need to backup all, except folder logs and subfolders in logs |
| 18:04.55 | ratrace | b-04: fv is a nope. filename must come directly after f, try czvf |
| 18:05.38 | ratrace | have some hierachy there :) create, compress, be verbose about it, the file nginx_proxy.tar.gz from_dir --exclude=this_and_that |
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| 18:06.36 | greycat | GNU is extremely weird about letting people put options in random places that options should not be, to the point where I have no idea which GNU tar commands will work and which will fail |
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| 18:07.06 | greycat | in a *sane* and consistent world, you would have to put options like --exclude before the non-option arguments like . |
| 18:07.14 | b-04 | uhm.. not found ratrace :/ |
| 18:07.16 | b-04 | tar zcvf nginx_proxy.tar.gz . from_dir --exclude='logs/reverseproxy/*' |
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| 18:09.01 | greycat | b-04: http://paste.wooledge.org/5027 |
| 18:09.01 | jelly | Shirely tar --exclude='logs/reverseproxy/*' zcvf nginx_proxy.tar.gz from_dir and leave off that damn . |
| 18:09.09 | jelly | ? |
| 18:09.38 | greycat | using a shell extended glob to match all the source directories EXCEPT "logs" might work if he's writing for a shell that has extglobs |
| 18:09.48 | jelly | why would someone tar up both . and some named dir |
| 18:10.09 | greycat | I don't think he understands that you meant one as a placeholder |
| 18:10.36 | jelly | ah. |
| 18:10.46 | greycat | Bear in mind that he also didn't understand why the f has to be right before the output filename... |
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| 18:18.17 | b-04 | thanks greycat ! |
| 18:18.23 | b-04 | found your example |
| 18:18.34 | b-04 | cant gzip, only tar |
| 18:18.48 | greycat | I omitted the z option because it wasn't essential to what I was demonstrating. |
| 18:18.53 | greycat | You can add the z. |
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| 18:19.26 | greycat | Just... not... between... the f and the filename argument to the f. |
| 18:20.00 | greycat | A sane person puts the mandatory command option 'c' or 'x' or 't' first. You can put the z right after that. |
| 18:20.52 | b-04 | thanks, it is the custom of always doing it the same and not excluding directories and that it works like this |
| 18:20.57 | b-04 | haha |
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| 18:23.20 | DrBunsen | Heya all, weird question maybe, but can I have each monitor I connect work like a different work station? I want to use a workstation as a workstation on monitor A and monitor B as my television. But the problem now sound and KBM et cetera is all shared, and I wonder if there is a way like you can do with VMs is to say monitor B is workstation B and KBM on usb X only works on B. If that is clear anyway. |
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| 18:25.15 | ratrace | DrBunsen: this maybe https://wiki.debian.org/Multi_Seat_Debian_HOWTO |
| 18:26.04 | hramrach | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:26.53 | DrBunsen | Multi seat, I knew there was something like that, thanks. And I will read into it. I couldn't really format my question for google to understand it. Thanks. |
| 18:27.01 | ratrace | speaking of sound, it should be possible to separtae outputs between applications with pulseaudio |
| 18:27.36 | ratrace | if THAT is all that's problematic here, grab a cheap-o few bucks USB audio device as secondary, and separte app sound ports via PA |
| 18:28.24 | DrBunsen | The tv is connected thourgh HDMI, that is also visible as a audio device. And for the other audio I just use the jacks. |
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| 18:28.44 | DrBunsen | Thanks, I will look into it. |
| 18:29.40 | ratrace | then you already do have multiple devices you can use for the separation |
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| 18:33.31 | DrBunsen | I figured that much. |
| 18:34.35 | DrBunsen | On the whole multi seat, do you guys know why it doesn't work on Buster, since the whole loginctl relies on systemd? |
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| 18:39.27 | ratrace | do you actually even need it? you can separate desktops between monitors, then slam the tv app in one, push its audio through a dedicated port, ?????, profit? |
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| 18:43.41 | DrBunsen | yeah true, I was only caring about my mouse dropping off at the edges off the screen |
| 18:43.58 | NetTerminalGene | what is the difference between modify and change time in a file info? |
| 18:44.01 | DrBunsen | I also have a seperate wireless keyboard with built in touch pad ;) |
| 18:44.18 | ratrace | DrBunsen: hum yeah, that could be a problem |
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| 18:44.29 | greycat | mtime is the last time data was written to the file. ctime is the last time the file's metadata changed (owner, group, permissions, etc.) |
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| 18:44.55 | greycat | and the third one, atime, is the last time data was read from the file, except that most systems have stopped tracking atime, because it's a HUGE burden |
| 18:45.46 | NetTerminalGene | greycat: why do you know that? |
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| 18:47.06 | Ede|Popede | part of the 101 of every good linux beginner's book. |
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| 18:58.02 | karlpinc | NetTerminalGene: "man mount", then search for "noatime". See also "man 2 stat". |
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| 19:06.02 | greycat | the current default is "relatime", so you'll want to look at that too |
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| 19:08.33 | NetTerminalGene | i'm not gonna read the whole thing |
| 19:09.54 | NetTerminalGene | there is no relatime or realtime anyways |
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| 19:10.52 | petn-randall | NetTerminalGene: Uh, there is? Just use the search function of your pager. |
| 19:11.06 | petn-randall | relatime != realtime |
| 19:11.34 | NetTerminalGene | ah. i thought i should use man relatime |
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| 19:14.03 | greycat | It's in mount(8). |
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| 19:22.10 | Sarcutus | Hey all ... is there a way for me to add my secondary SSD to /etc/fstab without making Debian start puking on startup? |
| 19:22.32 | Sarcutus | It drops to emergency mode until I take the UUID out of /etc/fstab |
| 19:22.47 | greycat | Is it because the device isn't always present at boot? |
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| 19:23.56 | sney | what's the whole fstab line for your secondary disk? |
| 19:24.59 | karlpinc | NetTerminalGene: I don't know where you are in your Linux-Fu training, but "man less" will tell you how to use the standard pager so you can then search in man pages. |
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| 19:27.15 | greycat | you can also press 'h' while in the pager to get a brief summary of keys |
| 19:27.38 | NetTerminalGene | i use / to search |
| 19:28.24 | Sarcutus | sney: UUID=<Universally Unique Identifier here> /mnt ext4 defaults 0 0 |
| 19:28.31 | Sarcutus | Should I have a nonzero somewhere? |
| 19:28.39 | sney | no, that should be ok |
| 19:28.46 | sney | unless /mnt isn't empty |
| 19:29.01 | Sarcutus | I can check. |
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| 19:32.20 | petn-randall | Sarcutus: And that settings throws an error during boot? |
| 19:33.07 | Sarcutus | petn-randall: No, I'm thinking I borked the entry, actually! Maybe I can try rebooting and see what happens ... |
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| 19:36.59 | Sarcutus | Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand it worked |
| 19:37.36 | sney | !next |
| 19:37.36 | dpkg | Another happy customer leaves the building. |
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| 19:43.20 | unixbsd | Using Okular to print, but which PDF viewer might have in print option (FIT TO Page...) ... a bit like in adobe acroread...� |
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| 19:44.38 | sney | unixbsd: okular has that, you expand the options in the print dialog and it's in the pdf options tab |
| 19:44.38 | Mister00X | unixbsd: how about evince |
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| 20:10.48 | unixbsd | I need to try too thankyou |
| 20:12.48 | NetTerminalGene | evince is bloat. okular is smooth |
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| 20:14.36 | sney | okular has like 3x evince's dependencies. they are pretty comparable in practice though, in their respective environments |
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| 20:17.10 | unixbsd | Only the adobe like fit to page, .. resizing... would be great to have. |
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| 20:17.49 | sney | again, okular has fit to page. in the print dialog. I print stuff from okular a few times a week, I know what I'm talking about. |
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| 20:17.55 | sney | the only thing it doesn't have is the mini preview. but oh well |
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| 21:20.54 | blackleitus | go |
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| 21:37.47 | jhutchins | Acrobat is available for linux. |
| 21:40.53 | pfred1 | I use evince |
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| 21:41.13 | dvs | I use Okular |
| 21:41.40 | pfred1 | Adobe is kinda dead to me |
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| 21:51.23 | ndegruchy | jhutchins: does the acrobat reader program for linux even work anymore? is it still updated? |
| 21:51.32 | ndegruchy | it's been ages since I've looked at it |
| 21:53.54 | pfred1 | I thought adobe dropped Linux support long ago |
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| 22:40.12 | jhutchins | I think acrobat still works on Linux. I haven't had to use it much, and I may be thinking of using it on Android. |
| 22:41.15 | smurfke | Question: the folder I am sharing via NFS has the following permissions on freebsd --> smurf:wheel. On my client (Debian) I would like it to be mounted as smurf:smurf |
| 22:41.26 | smurfke | 1) Is that possible |
| 22:41.35 | dob1 | what is the ram usage of newer debian installed system? |
| 22:41.42 | dob1 | *new |
| 22:41.48 | smurfke | 2) Will smurf:smurf have the needed permissions to do everything smurf:wheel can do on freebsd? |
| 22:41.55 | jhutchins | I guess xfce & chrome are using Evince. "Just Works". |
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| 22:42.56 | jhutchins | smurfke: Is smurf a member of wheel? |
| 22:43.03 | smurfke | on freebsd, yes |
| 22:43.29 | smurfke | however the group wheel does not exist on my debian installation. That's why I am asking |
| 22:43.47 | sney | dob1: depending on desktop environment, <1GB with nothing running, expanding to way more than that if you have a few browser tabs open. |
| 22:43.54 | jhutchins | smurfke: Try it and see. I don't think local permissions are relevant on NFS mounts. |
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| 22:44.29 | smurfke | jhutchins: currently it is mounted as smurf:root. How do I mount it as smurf:smurf (I am using NFSv3) |
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| 22:46.54 | jhutchins | smurfke: I'd have to research and experiment myself, and I don't currently have an NFS environment - I use CIFS. |
| 22:47.00 | smurfke | Maybe the better question is: must UID and GIDs be equivalent on the server and client when using NFS? |
| 22:47.18 | smurfke | jhutchins, no problem at all :) |
| 22:47.27 | smurfke | will look it up myself but just need some pointers |
| 22:47.37 | jhutchins | smurfke: It was to get around user id issues that I went with Samba, and I was familiar with SMB networking at the time. |
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| 22:48.05 | pfred1 | I think my NFS works because i set all my PCs up the same |
| 22:48.06 | smurfke | jhutchins: in fact I also have an SMB share set up but I thought NFS would be the way to go in a *nix enviornment |
| 22:48.26 | smurfke | pfred1: thanks prolly your UIDs and GIDs do match then |
| 22:48.29 | jhutchins | smurfke: I believe the NFS client documentation is pretty good these days, particularl v3 as people have been using it forever, and the NAS makers have never gone on to 4. |
| 22:48.34 | pfred1 | smurfke they do |
| 22:48.43 | smurfke | cool thanks guys |
| 22:48.47 | smurfke | I think that'll be the problem then |
| 22:49.05 | pfred1 | smurfke I'm sure there's ways of getting it to work if they don't though |
| 22:49.20 | smurfke | okay! |
| 22:49.42 | pfred1 | when it works a remote mount should work just like a local disk |
| 22:49.57 | jhutchins | smurfke: The problem with NFS is that unless you have centralized accounts - single sign-on - you run into issues where smurf@box1 has a different UID and GID than smurf@box2 |
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| 22:50.45 | smurfke | jhutchins: ok that explains it all :) |
| 22:50.48 | smurfke | thanks |
| 22:51.31 | jhutchins | smurfke: In *nix systems your ID is actually the numeric match, which then looks up the name for display purposes. |
| 22:52.07 | smurfke | aha sounds more logical |
| 22:52.16 | jhutchins | (When I was learning the foibles early on I had more hair than when I finally got it working.) |
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| 22:57.05 | dob1 | sney, without any X server running |
| 22:57.17 | dob1 | 300-400 mb? |
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| 22:57.59 | sney | something like that, I think 512M is the recommended minimum |
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| 23:00.46 | pfred1 | I hardly ever go over 1 GB |
| 23:01.08 | pfred1 | but more RAM means you can cache more data |
| 23:01.32 | sney | let's see, my buster web/znc vps is using about 350M right now |
| 23:02.07 | pfred1 | I am using 785 MB on my desktop ATM with Chromium open |
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| 23:02.42 | sney | my desktop is using a little over 5 gigs, but that's with 2 firefox windows and a bunch of other junk |
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| 23:03.11 | pfred1 | I never used more than 2.2 GB and that was compiling something |
| 23:03.52 | dob1 | 5gigs? |
| 23:04.04 | dob1 | with free how much cache memory you have=? |
| 23:05.21 | pfred1 | now I am down to 285 MB I closed a bunch of stuff |
| 23:05.40 | pfred1 | still have 4 xterms open though |
| 23:06.01 | sney | this discussion made me realize that I didn't have my chromium window with my inbox open, so here's my real average memory use: https://paste.debian.net/1178803/ |
| 23:06.11 | sney | I'm not anywhere near the total so nbd |
| 23:07.02 | pfred1 | I have empty RAM slots on my motherboard but they'll never get filled i just don't use RAM |
| 23:07.28 | pfred1 | 8 GB is more than enough for me |
| 23:07.30 | dob1 | I tried before: I closed/stopped all the programs/services, no X session, and the memory was like 300-400 but on htop every process was in 0-2% no more and on this vm I have 2gb |
| 23:08.08 | pfred1 | yeah with systemd my system uses more RAM idle than it did with sysv |
| 23:08.16 | pfred1 | about 10X more |
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| 23:08.45 | pfred1 | used to idle around 28 MB now it is more like 280 MB |
| 23:09.10 | dob1 | so much difference? |
| 23:09.24 | dob1 | maybe the kernel too uses more memory |
| 23:09.31 | pfred1 | maybe |
| 23:09.57 | pfred1 | I'm about to set my old system up again |
| 23:10.35 | pfred1 | I need it to flash a router with openwrt |
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| 23:32.11 | hramrach | I have 8GB ram on a notebook and I only get by because I am usingit as a terminal. I run web browser there and everything else is offloaded elsewehre. Runinng a mail client as well reliably kills it |
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| 23:33.13 | hramrach | but it very much depends on the load. machine with 1GB ram is fine for a simgle purpose server |
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| 23:34.30 | dvs | hramrach: stop using GNOME! ;-P |
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| 23:35.00 | hramrach | I am using Xmonad |
| 23:35.05 | pfred1 | Gnome 2.6 wasn't too bad |
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| 23:36.00 | hramrach | the top memory consumer is the browser but when I run evince it takes a lot as well. Ironically for most PDF files opening in browser gives way better experience than evince |
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| 23:39.10 | pfred1 | I prefer evince over the browser myself |
| 23:40.02 | pfred1 | although evince does have the nasty habit of opening up again wherever I closed a document |
| 23:40.16 | quadrathoch2 | I also take evince over a browser (especially firefox, as when I print pdfs in firefox, they look like garbage) |
| 23:40.16 | pfred1 | which can be annoying |
| 23:40.30 | quadrathoch2 | pfred1 Oo never had that issue |
| 23:40.31 | hramrach | I thought that a specialized piece of software would do better than a bolt-on plugin but testing it proved me wrong |
| 23:40.51 | pfred1 | quadrathoch2 yeah mine must just be configured weird |
| 23:40.52 | hramrach | I do not print them I view them |
| 23:41.15 | hramrach | for me a PDF is alreay a printout that I can feed to a physical printer when really needed |
| 23:41.33 | pfred1 | quadrathoch2 now I've developed the habit of scrolling back to the top before i close |
| 23:41.57 | quadrathoch2 | hramrach which i do (about 50-100 times a day), so still sucks that it only happens with the pdfjs in firefox |
| 23:42.09 | quadrathoch2 | because of that, I am almost switching browsers (to gnome-web) |
| 23:42.29 | pfred1 | hramrach sometimes i don't want to glue a monitor to a piece of wood before I cut it out |
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| 23:42.40 | quadrathoch2 | lol |
| 23:43.59 | hramrach | 'printing' PDFs is backwards. pdf is standard format already accepted by printers. Just feed it over network or from a SD card |
| 23:46.02 | quadrathoch2 | hramrach so how would I do that? copy all pdfs I create per day to a usb device and then go over to my printer (which doesn't have a usb plug?) |
| 23:46.12 | quadrathoch2 | and then do what |
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| 23:48.02 | hramrach | I don't know your printer. I deal with a printer that accepts USB and SD cards (which is a PITA) and a printer that can print PDFs sent over network witl lpr |
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| 23:49.37 | hramrach | but cups can adapt most printers to the latter |
| 23:49.39 | pfred1 | I just got a new card reader |
| 23:50.08 | quadrathoch2 | hramrach so, again. I have to "create" 50-100 pdfs a day, which when created all have the same name (so I still need to rename them). then go over to a printer which doesn't have a usb plug (let's assume it has one). and then print them out. rather than just hit print in firefox (or any browser) and print it. (I just need to file a bugreport to |
| 23:50.08 | quadrathoch2 | firefox at some point :/) |
| 23:51.07 | quadrathoch2 | makes no sense to me :/ |
| 23:51.54 | hramrach | As I said I mostly view PDFs, not print them |
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| 23:52.44 | hramrach | also when the PDF is created by a web application and opens in the browser directly it makes sense to send it to the printer from there but that's not how I get PDFs |
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| 23:55.59 | unixbsd | in bullseye there is a big problem with libfltk1.3-dev package. |
| 23:56.27 | unixbsd | in the libfltk1.3-dev bullseye, the libs arent included where they should !! please fix as soon as possible. |
| 23:56.52 | quadrathoch2 | !debian-next |
| 23:56.52 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc |
| 23:56.55 | quadrathoch2 | unixbsd ^ |
| 23:58.49 | tyzef | hi! sometimes, someone may delete importants .deb from from 'apt remove ... but someone don't know he deleted important .deb for others softwares... is there a way to check on our system if something is missing? regards |
| 23:59.41 | tyzef | like packages, libs..... |
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