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| 00:03.35 | format_c | So to summarize: you have a hypervisor host (KVM) that hosts all nodes in your network + the hypervisor itself. Before, you've had a gateway outside the hypervisor to get to the outside. Now you have a gateway being a guest of the hypervisor. All guests running on the hypervisor have no issues getting internet connectivity through the guest gateway (verfied?) with one exception: the hypervisor itself has no outside connecvitity? |
| 00:03.37 | format_c | Is this correct? |
| 00:04.13 | wallacer | hmm how is the VM connected to the WAN though? |
| 00:04.26 | format_c | That would be my followup question. |
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| 00:05.46 | tekk | VM connected to WAN via PCI passthrough (IOMMU) |
| 00:05.49 | tekk | of an entire NIC |
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| 00:08.35 | tekk | its totally, odd, e.g. I can ping 1.1.1.1 but dig google.com @1.1.1.1 fails |
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| 00:11.20 | format_c | To that smells like a state machine in between that does no state inspection on ICMP but on UDP+TCP. And also (even though your said that the old gateway is disconnected) it smells to me like a assymetric traffic flow with a state machine in between which is treating ICMP stateless. |
| 00:11.40 | mysonjohn | quick question, is there a way to boot into debian netcd manually from the grub command line? |
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| 00:11.53 | mysonjohn | I tried to look up how to do it and there was no info |
| 00:12.33 | format_c | mysonjohn: you mean like bootin the Grub from the disk and then boot into a (maybe afterwards inserted) netboot CD? |
| 00:12.33 | rk4 | mysonjohn: that commandline has tab complete, you can often tab your way to the right device names |
| 00:13.53 | format_c | tekk: have you checked reverse routes "behind" the old/new gateway? |
| 00:13.59 | mysonjohn | Like going into the grub commandline and manually booting into the debian cd |
| 00:14.12 | tekk | reverse routes? |
| 00:15.54 | format_c | Well I don't know your network topology behind the gateway. or is it a old and the new one a stupid PAT box to an ordinary Internet ISP? |
| 00:15.56 | Gerowen | jelly: Just thought I'd let you know everything went off without a hitch. I've now successfully converted software RAID 1 to RAID 5, and then resized the encrypted partition stored on it to take advantage of the extra space, all without losing any data or having to restore from a backup or anything. |
| 00:17.24 | tekk | behind the gateway its a Fiber converter to ethernet connected to pfSense... requires PPPoE |
| 00:17.26 | format_c | Gerowen: maybe you spend it a blog post or similar. I'd guess that some more people would be faced the same challenge. |
| 00:17.30 | tekk | behind the gateway isn't the issue however |
| 00:18.02 | Gerowen | format_c: I recorded most of it, but I may write it out as well. |
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| 00:18.51 | format_c | The "reverse route" might be related if you're under control of the network behind the "gateway". |
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| 00:55.12 | cluelessperson | 1GB after 60seconds isn't too bad. |
| 00:56.12 | format_c | ~140Mbps. Not bad. |
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| 01:20.08 | cluelessperson | format_c, I'm on a Gb connection D: |
| 01:20.39 | cluelessperson | I'm wondering if it might be possible to offer a p2p contribution to syncing. |
| 01:20.50 | cluelessperson | performing some research on the subject. |
| 01:20.52 | cluelessperson | conducting |
| 01:22.18 | format_c | cluelessperson: well "1GB" is ambiguous, I treated it as GigaBytes |
| 01:23.14 | format_c | 1 GigaBytes withing 60 seconds makes the transfer average bandwidth ~140MegaBitsPerSeconds |
| 01:23.41 | format_c | Admitted a well aound of rounding |
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| 01:29.52 | cluelessperson | :P |
| 01:30.30 | cluelessperson | 140Mb/minute |
| 01:31.15 | cluelessperson | format_c, B = Byte, b = bit. |
| 01:31.16 | cluelessperson | silly |
| 01:34.24 | format_c | 1GByte within 60 seconds / 60 seconds == 0,0167 GBbytes per second*1024 making GigaBytes to MegaBytes makes 17,0667 Megabytes/s * 8 makes 136,533 MegaBits/s |
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| 01:38.43 | ratrace | *gibibits, mebibits, if you're gonna use 1024 |
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| 03:42.18 | VegasXGaming | Just because the casinos are closed, doesn't mean the games have to stop! We are one of the biggest exclusive online gaming platforms for over 15 years. With a top jackpot currently at $10,000, free credits with your first buy-in and easy account set up, why wouldn't you come play with us? |
| 03:42.18 | VegasXGaming | your friends for bonus credits! |
| 03:45.31 | Sark | I... I am impressed that someone is still doing drive-by spam on IRC. |
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| 03:47.18 | mrkramps | feels like 2000 |
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| 03:50.33 | Sark | I know, right? I kinda miss it. |
| 03:50.43 | Sark | a/s/l? |
| 03:50.47 | Sark | lol |
| 03:50.50 | Ekis | That spammer is all over the channels right now lol |
| 03:52.49 | Sark | I guess he gets points for trying, but I can't imagine anyone falling for that junk these days. I would assume that if you're smart enough to connect to IRC, you're smart enough to see through the scams. |
| 03:53.58 | mrkramps | maybe somebody's just testing a bot because boredom? |
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| 03:56.52 | Sark | Maybe someone powered on a server that's been off since 1997. |
| 03:58.08 | mrkramps | uh, interesting possibility |
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| 04:06.49 | jak2000 | how to list files in a directory sorted by date? |
| 04:07.45 | mrkramps | jak2000, ls -t |
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| 04:16.17 | jak2000 | thanks |
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| 04:59.04 | zzz2002 | OT? - my main system has just died, It did not owe me anything it was about 9yrs old. I need some advice on a replacement - not gamer- main use genealogy, graphics, android dev. TIA |
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| 05:20.12 | mrkramps | zzz2002, desktop? something something ryzen |
| 05:23.32 | Sark | pets Optiplex 390 |
| 05:23.50 | sney | get some ~2 year old workstation hardware, add a fast disk if not already present, and max out the memory |
| 05:24.01 | zzz2002 | mrkramps, desktop - ryzen ? - 8 Tb raid - multiple screens |
| 05:30.31 | mrkramps | well, if you buy brand-new, get an AMD Ryzen CPU or APU |
| 05:31.01 | mrkramps | if not new do what sney said and get a refurbished workstation |
| 05:32.12 | sney | yeah, some dual socket xeon beast with loads of ram is way more appropriate for general graphics/dev than consumer gamer stuff. particularly if you want it to go for another 9 years |
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| 05:35.55 | sney | maybe they don't really do dual-socket anymore, it's been a minute since the last time I looked. but throw a bunch of upgrades at something like this, you get the idea https://www.directdial.com/ca/item/hp-z4-g4-workstation/3kx18ut-aba |
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| 06:09.10 | zzz2002 | Thanks for the input. I will probably stick with AMD (Ryzen). Will probably add a raid controller ... |
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| 06:39.07 | rk4 | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:41.38 | rk4 | [even 2 years ago imho] |
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| 06:51.27 | zzz2002 | rk4, yes, not sure how many cores would be "good". Probably go with an ASUS mobo. |
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| 09:22.15 | jolt | dual sockets can be nice depending on how the memory is attached and the pci busses, but yeah, not for any home related systems perhaps |
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| 09:42.14 | jelly | what you _can_ buy is different from what's cost/effective, hard to suggest hw without a) budget b) more detail on the workload |
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| 09:43.58 | mrkramps | jelly, for the time being it is not that hard to suggest buying a ryzen ⦠everything else, yeah depends |
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| 09:49.04 | jelly | without budget, you can't even know whether they're better off buying new or second hand or refurb. |
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| 09:49.43 | jelly | but the user is gone anyway |
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| 11:18.53 | ham5urg | Can someone tell me why Make is returning: "/usr/bin/bash: ifeq: command not found" here: http://paste.debian.net/1179121/ |
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| 11:22.48 | nkuttler | ham5urg: um, are you trying to reinvent rmdir (1)? |
| 11:23.13 | nkuttler | ham5urg: fwiw, there is #bash |
| 11:24.53 | ham5urg | nkuttler, thanks |
| 11:25.21 | ham5urg | I took a look into man rmdir. Did not know about --ignore-fail-on-non-empty |
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| 13:54.25 | Monodroid | Hello. Can someone help me? When i try to launch steam, it gives me following error : "You are missing the following 32-bit libraries, and Steam may not run: |
| 13:54.25 | Monodroid | libGL.so.1". The file should be in the libgl1 package, which is is installed (both amd64 and i386). |
| 13:54.46 | Monodroid | I use the debian testing cinnamon distro |
| 13:55.35 | n4dir | !testing |
| 13:55.35 | dpkg | Testing is a continuously updated release between <stable> and <unstable>, currently codenamed <bullseye>. See http://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting . Support in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net and ask me about <testing faq> <buster->bullseye> <testing security> <moving target> <apt-listchanges> <apt-listbugs> and <bts>. You need a sound knowledge of Debian and be prepared for a very bumpy ride. Don't use it on things that are critical! |
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| 13:55.54 | jak2000 | hi all |
| 13:55.55 | Monodroid | should i use the stable edition? |
| 13:56.02 | Monodroid | for gaming stuff? |
| 13:56.09 | robobox | yes, I do that |
| 13:56.16 | n4dir | Saying is: if you have to ask, you should use stable. |
| 13:56.33 | jak2000 | wich permission need here: drwxr-xr-x 2 jak jak 4096 Jul 26 11:34 backups i want this: drwxrwxr-x 2 jak jak 90112 Dec 31 01:00 backups |
| 13:56.34 | n4dir | doesn't help much, i guess. |
| 13:56.37 | robobox | steam and minecraft work fine (java version, bedrock is a broken buggy mess) |
| 13:56.37 | Monodroid | is the software actual in stable? for example i know that the driver is not. |
| 13:56.50 | petn-randall | Monodroid: testing/unstable is unreleased distro, so if you don't plan on beta-testing stuff, I recommend sticking with stable. |
| 13:57.05 | n4dir | Monodroid: there is always the stable-backports. But in general only you can decide such |
| 13:57.06 | Monodroid | chmod 775 @jak2000 |
| 13:57.31 | Monodroid | ok in this case i reinstall the entire system |
| 13:57.49 | Onyx47 | regardless of testing or not, you do need multiarch enabled for Steam (I run it on testing just fine, and I'm not saying that going to stable is not a better choice for a less experienced user, but it'll still be a requirement on stable as well) |
| 13:57.50 | n4dir | slow down. Have a deep breath and think a bit about it |
| 13:58.08 | petn-randall | Monodroid: You'll also have to check which releases are supported for steam. Debian testing/unstable most likely isn't. |
| 13:58.12 | mrkramps | Monodroid, what's your graphics card? |
| 13:58.18 | Monodroid | 1080TI |
| 13:58.26 | jak2000 | Monodroid: drwxr-xr-x 2 jak jak 4096 Jul 26 11:34 backups after: sudo chmod 755 backups -R |
| 13:58.32 | mrkramps | nvidia ships an own version of libGL.so.1 |
| 13:58.48 | petn-randall | jak2000: You don't need sudo for that. |
| 13:58.49 | mrkramps | in package libgl1-nvidia-glx |
| 13:59.26 | Monodroid | Paket libgl1-nvidia-glx ist nicht verfügbar, wird aber von einem anderen Paket |
| 13:59.26 | Monodroid | referenziert. Das kann heiÃen, dass das Paket fehlt, dass es abgelöst |
| 13:59.26 | Monodroid | wurde oder nur aus einer anderen Quelle verfügbar ist. |
| 13:59.26 | Monodroid | E: Für Paket »libgl1-nvidia-glx« existiert kein Installationskandidat. |
| 13:59.27 | Onyx47 | see: https://wiki.debian.org/Steam, specifically step 2, nvidia or not the 32bit version won't get installed without that AFAIK |
| 14:00.02 | Monodroid | strange, beacause with the last stable edition i had no problems as you say |
| 14:00.09 | Monodroid | so i think i stick with stable.. |
| 14:00.29 | Monodroid | i choosed the testing version to have actual software |
| 14:00.38 | ratrace | Monodroid: well I play steam games on buster but with backported kernel and nvidia driver |
| 14:01.05 | Monodroid | hm dont know how i can backport..need to learn first ;) |
| 14:01.13 | ratrace | it's already in buster-backports |
| 14:01.20 | ratrace | ,v linux-image-amd64 |
| 14:01.21 | judd | Package: linux-image-amd64 on amd64 -- jessie: 3.16+63+deb8u2; jessie-security: 3.16+63+deb8u7; stretch-security: 4.9+80+deb9u6; stretch: 4.9+80+deb9u11; stretch-backports: 4.19+105+deb10u4~bpo9+1; buster-security: 4.19+105+deb10u7; buster: 4.19+105+deb10u8; buster-backports: 5.9.6-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 5.9.15-1; sid: 5.9.15-1; experimental: 5.10.2-1~exp1 |
| 14:01.24 | ratrace | ,v nvidia-driver |
| 14:01.25 | judd | Package: nvidia-driver on amd64 -- jessie/non-free: 340.106-1; stretch-proposed-updates/non-free: 390.132-1; stretch/non-free: 390.138-1; stretch-backports/non-free: 418.74-1~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 418.152.00-1; buster-backports/non-free: 450.80.02-1~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 450.80.02-2; sid/non-free: 450.80.02-2; experimental/non-free: 455.45.01-1 |
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| 14:02.29 | ratrace | but I'll hold the kernel at 5.9. there's a nasty performance regression for btrfs in 5.10, and I don't wanna be hit by that |
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| 14:02.41 | Monodroid | do i need to download the nvidia driver from the website if i want to have the newest driver with stable? |
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| 14:04.10 | n4dir | first of all check debian-backports. In general, not in this case |
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| 14:04.33 | ratrace | Monodroid: no, use the one from backports. _do_ _not_ install from the tarball unless you know what you're doing in which case you won't be asking this |
| 14:05.20 | n4dir | imho: usually one wants to avoid third-party, not from the debian repositories, as hard as possible |
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| 14:07.05 | petn-randall | Monodroid: You likely get that error because you haven't enabled the contrib and non-free sections. |
| 14:07.10 | petn-randall | !non-free sources.list |
| 14:07.26 | petn-randall | !non-free sources |
| 14:07.26 | dpkg | Edit /etc/apt/sources.list, ensure that the two main Debian mirror lines end with "main contrib non-free" rather than just "main", then «apt-get update». But bear in mind that you'll be installing <non-free> software. These may have onerous terms; check the licenses. See also <sources.list>. |
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| 14:08.51 | Monodroid | i added the contrib and non-free entry |
| 14:09.54 | Monodroid | ok thank you very much for your help! |
| 14:11.07 | Monodroid | i know n4dir, unfortunately the nvidia driver is proprietary and im dependend of nvidia beacause of gsync. next monitor is a freesync compatible and amd |
| 14:11.12 | Monodroid | graphic card |
| 14:12.00 | n4dir | Monodroid: i don't want to sound smart or such. Just trying that you are sure about such questions. A few are not. Good luck and have fun |
| 14:12.16 | n4dir | or you seem to be german: ich will nicht klugscheissen. :-) |
| 14:12.32 | Monodroid | no problem. i appreciate your much your advise |
| 14:12.39 | Monodroid | oder so :) |
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| 14:59.54 | no_gravity | Good Afternoon |
| 15:00.39 | dvs | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:00.40 | dpkg | Universal Greeting Time (UGT) asserts that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. |
| 15:01.02 | *** join/#debian Jantz (~IceChat9@2407:7000:8d04:100:9817:6587:306d:d828) |
| 15:01.26 | Monodroid | hello @no gravity |
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| 15:03.19 | no_gravity | Yo Monodroid |
| 15:03.33 | antto | can anyone tell me how dafuq(ue) do you search in hexchat channel logs?! i can't even get the log opened in a text editor |
| 15:04.09 | antto | i wanna search backwards (for something recent) |
| 15:04.18 | no_gravity | Strange, "rsync -avi --checksum --delete source/ target/" seems to update everything. Even though nothing changed. Any ideas why? |
| 15:05.47 | ratrace | no_gravity: you'll have to reprhase that problem |
| 15:05.49 | Ede|Popede | antto: `grep`? at least if it's search for some particular text |
| 15:05.58 | oerheks | cd .config/hexchat/logs && grep -R "text" . |
| 15:06.23 | Ede|Popede | if a text editor is preferred then maybe sed would be it ;) |
| 15:06.30 | antto | i don't know the exact text, i'm looking for a url that i've maybe posted some weeks ago |
| 15:06.40 | Ede|Popede | regex |
| 15:06.42 | antto | but i need to also see the surrounding conversation |
| 15:07.10 | oerheks | hexchat gives an url grabber option |
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| 15:07.18 | Ede|Popede | <something> <regex of your nicks> <tab> <something> <url basic scheme> <something> |
| 15:07.21 | no_gravity | ratrace: source/ and target/ are identical except for timestamps of the files. I run "rsync -avi --checksum --delete source/ target/" and it outputs all filenames with ".f..t..... filename". I would think that means it copied it. But why? |
| 15:07.33 | antto | oerheks, what does it do? |
| 15:07.39 | oerheks | but i think you need to grep http for your search |
| 15:07.55 | Ede|Popede | oerheks: mine full all the time, i gave up long ago using it. with some context it may be useful, but not with just a list of URLs |
| 15:08.47 | oerheks | antto, settings > preferences > logging > url grabber creates a list with urls solely |
| 15:09.04 | oerheks | oh,a nd my logfilename = %Y-%m-%d/%n-%c.log |
| 15:09.17 | oerheks | to separate days |
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| 15:09.50 | ratrace | no_gravity: if there's no > or < at the beginning of the itemized list, the file isn't transferred |
| 15:10.14 | no_gravity | ratrace: Oh! |
| 15:10.22 | short-bike | I an running 10.7 as a server in a VM (fresh install). I used 'debian-10.7.0-amd64-DVD-1' as the iso but am hitting a brick wall when trying to install 'sudo'. Apt sees the package but fails on apt install. A pointer would be much appreciated. |
| 15:10.30 | ratrace | in fact that . means it's not being updated at all. check the manpage for itemized format |
| 15:10.57 | dvs | short-bike: set up /etc/apt/sources.list to point to the external repos. |
| 15:10.58 | no_gravity | ratrace: Can I tell rsync to only output the files it transferred? |
| 15:11.10 | antto | oerheks, that won't help, i have default setting, the log is about 90MB from ages ago |
| 15:11.12 | ratrace | no_gravity: it usually does without -i |
| 15:11.15 | short-bike | dvs: Thank you :) |
| 15:11.32 | ratrace | no_gravity: or grep its output for lines beginning with > |
| 15:11.32 | dvs | np |
| 15:12.37 | antto | okay, "gedit" opened it |
| 15:12.37 | no_gravity | ratrace: We are getting closer! With "rsync -av --checksum --delete" it now is almost silent. But it still outputs all directory names. Why that? |
| 15:13.08 | ratrace | no_gravity: there's no checksum on directories, maybe that, but it sees timestamp changes |
| 15:13.31 | antto | "The file you opened has some invalid characters. If you continue editing this file you could corrupt this document." |
| 15:13.38 | no_gravity | ratrace: Hmm... maybe I should add --ignore-timestamps |
| 15:13.39 | ratrace | no_gravity: if you wanna be sure, used itemized list and grep or otherwise "filter" by the letters |
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| 15:13.45 | ratrace | no_gravity: -c does that |
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| 15:14.35 | Ede|Popede | antto: grep has some nice options, -A(fter) -B(efore) -C(ombined or whatever) |
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| 15:15.00 | antto | won't the grep thing return just one line of text? |
| 15:15.10 | Ede|Popede | not if you tell it to do otherwise |
| 15:15.20 | antto | i'm not a h4x0r |
| 15:15.32 | no_gravity | ratrace: So no way to not output the directories by rsync natively? |
| 15:15.32 | Ede|Popede | another nice thing is the option to just return the string it searched for |
| 15:15.46 | Ede|Popede | neither am i, just liked reading manuals for these tools ;) |
| 15:15.52 | ratrace | no_gravity: I don't know. but what exactly do you want to achieve? this smells of XY |
| 15:16.21 | no_gravity | ratrace: When I rsync source/ and target/ I like to see what changed. |
| 15:16.28 | Ede|Popede | gnu grep btw, no idea about the others |
| 15:16.38 | ratrace | no_gravity: the itemized list will tell you _precisely_ the differences |
| 15:17.11 | no_gravity | ratrace: That is too long though. |
| 15:17.36 | ratrace | only if the differences are there |
| 15:18.15 | no_gravity | ratrace: No, the itemized list shows every file. |
| 15:18.37 | ratrace | no_gravity: only if they differ |
| 15:19.00 | no_gravity | ratrace: They timestamps might differ. But the contents do not. That is why I use --checksum. |
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| 15:22.40 | ratrace | no_gravity: your best bet is grepping through the itemized output |
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| 15:23.21 | no_gravity | ratrace: I might do that. |
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| 15:32.20 | pthreat | I'm trying to find some logs from my window manager which are logged to stdout, I've logged using gdm3 |
| 15:32.28 | pthreat | I see nothing in /var/log/gdm3 |
| 15:32.50 | ratrace | what about the journal? |
| 15:33.09 | pthreat | journalctl _UID=<myuid> shows no useful info |
| 15:34.09 | hramrach | did you try ~/.xisession-errors? |
| 15:34.14 | pthreat | I have |
| 15:34.34 | pthreat | file does not exists |
| 15:34.43 | pthreat | (this is debian 10) |
| 15:34.52 | hramrach | .xsession-errors |
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| 15:35.29 | pthreat | yeah |
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| 15:37.06 | hramrach | it does exist for me but I am using a vintage WM |
| 15:37.27 | hramrach | if you are running something on top of wayland I would expect it is logged elsewhere |
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| 15:46.14 | jhutchins | See also /var/log/Xorg.log |
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| 16:06.15 | cjoke | Happy New Year! :D |
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| 16:41.18 | Monodroid | i think i try the SID version to be up2date for gaming... |
| 16:41.26 | metbsd | centos us dead. will debian be next? |
| 16:41.42 | Monodroid | why centos dead? what happened? |
| 16:42.08 | metbsd | no more centos |
| 16:42.13 | dvs | Centos isn't dead. Centos is now in a different form. |
| 16:42.36 | metbsd | it becomes another fedora |
| 16:42.45 | Monodroid | you mean no more free.. |
| 16:43.09 | petn-randall | Monodroid: You should only install sid if you're willing to test packages that have only been proven to compile fine on a developer's machine... |
| 16:43.33 | robobox | no, Red Hat discontinued the version everyone used and moved everyone to the development version |
| 16:43.35 | n4dir | Monodroid: there have been debian based distributions using sid. I don't know if they still exist. The advantage: The worst trouble you might run into they will try to handle for you. Sidux might be a good search term to find them |
| 16:43.43 | robobox | Because it's Red Hat |
| 16:43.46 | Monodroid | i give it a try.. if something broke its not the end of the world, i do backups |
| 16:43.50 | n4dir | not saying one wouldn't be able to run just debian sid. Just a note |
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| 16:44.04 | n4dir | Monodroid: install apt-listbugs too |
| 16:44.09 | n4dir | iirc |
| 16:44.17 | Monodroid | i wil notice that, thx n4dir |
| 16:44.37 | n4dir | and obviously: the less packages installed, the less the chance of breakage. |
| 16:44.41 | petn-randall | Monodroid: Well, if things break, we usually expect you to have some level of confidence debugging the issue and finding a solution. And for gaming things break all the time in sid. |
| 16:45.01 | petn-randall | Especially the nvidia drivers. Since they're non-free, they're not a high priority. |
| 16:45.07 | n4dir | So installing a DE during installation process with tasksel. Might be better to do it fine-grained, only what you need, after installation |
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| 16:45.12 | n4dir | all imho ; of course |
| 16:45.41 | Monodroid | bad. stable is old, testing not recommended, sid also.. i dont wanna use other distros i like debian.. |
| 16:45.56 | greycat | *plonk* |
| 16:46.01 | n4dir | search for those sid distros based on debian. |
| 16:46.22 | Monodroid | do you have any recommandations? |
| 16:46.42 | n4dir | i would need to search myself. The term i recall is Sidux. Let me try that |
| 16:46.54 | petn-randall | !sns |
| 16:46.54 | dpkg | Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>. |
| 16:47.01 | jhutchins | n4dir: sid isn't exactly a distro, it's a stage in production for testing. |
| 16:48.32 | n4dir | you tell me that why? |
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| 16:50.35 | Monodroid | maybe try arch? |
| 16:53.26 | n4dir | that was a long search: siduction. |
| 16:53.32 | Ede|Popede | https://distrowatch.com/search.php <-- also has "based on" with grainy Debian selection |
| 16:54.00 | n4dir | the other one was aptosid, but it is defuncted, it seems |
| 16:54.12 | Monodroid | is the installer of siduction like that of debian? for example linux mint installer is really difficult with gparted to set up an encrypted lvm partition |
| 16:54.18 | Monodroid | i look into siduction, thx! |
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| 16:56.08 | Ede|Popede | oh well, aptosid says it's based on unstable, but klicking the provided link only lists CloneZilla Live |
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| 17:00.25 | n4dir | doesn't look as if siduction is up to date either. damn. another 10 minutes wasted. |
| 17:00.57 | Monodroid | 2018 yeah |
| 17:01.24 | n4dir | sorry. I didn't know. |
| 17:01.29 | Monodroid | np :) |
| 17:01.54 | metbsd | most of them are based on debian |
| 17:02.15 | Monodroid | hmm i dont like ubuntu stuff |
| 17:02.27 | metbsd | pointless to install those as they are basically all debian |
| 17:03.13 | metbsd | hope debian wont go discontinue |
| 17:03.17 | n4dir | that is correct. Most debian based distros are based on debian. |
| 17:03.51 | metbsd | there are couple arch based too |
| 17:04.03 | n4dir | no shitting? |
| 17:04.21 | metbsd | centos used to be pretty stable too |
| 17:04.28 | metbsd | but now its gone |
| 17:04.41 | petn-randall | metbsd: What are you talking about? Debian is showing no signs of going away. Stop spreading FUD. |
| 17:04.57 | jhutchins | metbsd: Debian has a pretty good distributed base, as opposed to being one centralized project. Should be able to continue for a while. |
| 17:05.36 | metbsd | thats good to know |
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| 17:06.00 | metbsd | sometimes linux feels like dying |
| 17:06.14 | jhutchins | I'm still not sure how a supposedly community based open source distro like CentOS could be "acquired" by RedHat, then discontinued. |
| 17:06.19 | Monodroid | I have my own theory why Ian Murdock died onto police hands... |
| 17:06.32 | Monodroid | Freedom for the ppl is not wanted |
| 17:07.15 | Monodroid | look how ridiculous the entire applied corona rules are.. for a virus with a mortality rate of 1% under 75 years |
| 17:07.20 | dvs | jhutchins: I have three letters why. |
| 17:07.32 | jhutchins | wonders if there's a channel devoted to conspiracy theories. |
| 17:07.51 | Monodroid | the channel is called "brain-on" ;) |
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| 17:08.49 | Monodroid | its clear that linux is not wanted from vaxgates and other elites |
| 17:08.59 | *** part/#debian nix0utlaw (~andy@34.26.169.217.in-addr.arpa) |
| 17:09.03 | petn-randall | Monodroid: This isn't the right channel to spread misinformation. Unfortunately I can't recommend any others to you as I don't traverse these parts of the internet. |
| 17:09.20 | petn-randall | yawns. |
| 17:09.21 | Monodroid | this is why your work you devs do, its so much important |
| 17:09.30 | Monodroid | np :) |
| 17:10.03 | n4dir | misinformation is something different than opinions though. Still doesn't belong here |
| 17:10.19 | Monodroid | im really appreciate your effort and time you put on to help me |
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| 17:13.46 | Sarcutus | I'm going to ask a daft question. Is a Debian Pure Blend still Debian, or should I (DebianEdu/Skolelinux) wipe my system and install from a non-Edu installer to get "real" Debian? |
| 17:13.51 | foxide | Monodroid: I'll be the one to say it: You're an idiot and you're dangerous to reasonable people. |
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| 17:14.31 | foxide | Sarcutus: I believe that pure blends are still supported here, as I think they're just selections of packages/metapackages in a dedicated installer. |
| 17:14.33 | foxide | I could be wrong. |
| 17:14.38 | petn-randall | foxide: We already dropped the topic, and ad-hominem attacks won't help here. |
| 17:15.08 | n4dir | never miss a chance to look like a reasonable person by calling others idiots. |
| 17:15.37 | petn-randall | Sarcutus: Debian Pure Blend is still regular Debian, just a nicer installer for those tasks. |
| 17:15.48 | foxide | n4dir: If the shoe fits. |
| 17:16.15 | Monodroid | thank you foxide, but i dont care how you call me |
| 17:16.18 | Sarcutus | Thank you petn-randall ... I was worried it was a sort of periphery project I guess. :) |
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| 17:18.53 | jhutchins | !pure |
| 17:19.17 | jhutchins | Nothin'. |
| 17:19.36 | Sarcutus | jhutchins: '=D |
| 17:19.49 | petn-randall | !debian pure blends |
| 17:19.57 | petn-randall | !debian pure blend |
| 17:19.57 | dpkg | A Debian Pure Blend (formerly Custom Debian Distribution) is a subset of Debian configured to support a particular target group out-of-the-box. Not to be confused with distributions <based on Debian>. http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPureBlends http://blends.debian.org/ #debian-blends on irc.oftc.net. |
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| 17:21.14 | Sarcutus | I looked this stuff up, which makes my question even more dumb, but I wanted a community's take on it. |
| 17:22.23 | petn-randall | Sarcutus: It's unedited Debian packages, so it's 100% supported here. Derived distros might have changed things, or are stuck on different package versions, which is why those are not supported here. |
| 17:22.30 | NetTerminalGene | netflix doesn't work on my default firefox-esr. does it general problem. anyone here can watch? |
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| 17:22.55 | Sarcutus | petn-randall: Awesome. |
| 17:23.01 | petn-randall | NetTerminalGene: Does chromium work? AFAIR you need encrypted media extensions, which isn't shipped by default because it's non-free. |
| 17:23.25 | NetTerminalGene | petn-randall: i enabled it in options |
| 17:24.34 | NetTerminalGene | there is a setting you can enable drm in firefox-esr |
| 17:25.57 | ratrace | NetTerminalGene: I'm watching it right now |
| 17:26.05 | ratrace | (on buster, firefox-esr) |
| 17:26.17 | NetTerminalGene | ratrace: hmm |
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| 17:26.28 | NetTerminalGene | let me try again with different settings |
| 17:26.57 | ratrace | NetTerminalGene: that said, I do remember first time I've set up this profile, took me a while to enable DRM. When you enable it, actually has to download it and there's no progress report |
| 17:27.19 | ratrace | it's possible you simply need to be patient. also try turning the checkbox off and on again. heh, yeah, no joke. |
| 17:27.36 | NetTerminalGene | ratrace: ok i will try |
| 17:27.44 | NetTerminalGene | ratrace: can it play 4k? |
| 17:27.49 | ratrace | no idea |
| 17:28.02 | ratrace | I only have the 1080p netflix account anyway and no 4k screen |
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| 17:29.15 | Ede|Popede | last thing i've read is that widevine has 3 levels and on firefox/linux (AND or OR, no idea) only the 1st one is available |
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| 17:33.50 | NetTerminalGene1 | ratrace: yeah, it plays. it looks like plugin didn't download drm stuff |
| 17:34.05 | NetTerminalGene1 | thanks |
| 17:34.08 | ratrace | yw |
| 17:35.33 | NetTerminalGene | ratrace: it would be better to get gpu acceleration :/ |
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| 17:36.21 | ratrace | NetTerminalGene: ? |
| 17:37.01 | NetTerminalGene | ratrace: firefox uses cpu for decoding. it would be good gpu decoding |
| 17:37.28 | ratrace | NetTerminalGene: are you talking about VAAPI? |
| 17:37.38 | NetTerminalGene | yes |
| 17:37.41 | ratrace | Soon(tm) |
| 17:38.11 | NetTerminalGene | i think debian 10 doesn't have the minimum mesa for that |
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| 17:38.59 | ratrace | that and FF version that supports VAAPI I think |
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| 17:41.11 | cyber | Good day all. I would like to install debian (armhf) without gui. Should I simply install the iso-cd and adjust after, or is there a specific iso I could try? |
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| 17:44.15 | cyber | I'll pick option 1. Thanks |
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| 17:51.03 | karlpinc | !firmware-images |
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| 17:51.43 | karlpinc | !firmware images |
| 17:51.43 | dpkg | There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/ The images are "unofficial" because "official Debian" includes only 100% free software. They are otherwise identical to the normal installer images and prepared by the same Debian Developers. See <check iso>. |
| 17:52.02 | karlpinc | cyber: You may want the above netinstall image. |
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| 17:54.30 | karlpinc | cyber: If you install from a netinstall you only download software you install. If you want the firmware that makes your hardware work, even if it's not free, you may as well "do it the easy way". Can't say what difference arm makes. |
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| 18:02.32 | cyber | karlpinc: sounds good, I will check this out, thanks |
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| 18:05.45 | cyber | karlpinc: I'm no expert, but I enjoy discovering anything linux. I recently bought a small usb computer and installed the binary distro that came with it (debian). I discovered that the kernel was missing key stuff and now I will either compile it or try something directly from debian, and not the manufacturer. |
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| 18:51.06 | Heavy_Mettle | Hello |
| 18:51.43 | Heavy_Mettle | Does the mk-build-deps tool from devscript exist in other distros or is it exclusive to debian, it's an amazing tool! |
| 18:52.12 | sney | well, it's in all of the downstream based-on-debian distros too |
| 18:52.23 | sney | I don't know if the redhat ecosystem has an equivalent |
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| 18:52.36 | Heavy_Mettle | yeah, that was what i was wondering. |
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| 18:53.04 | sney | if arch has something like it, it'll be documented on their wiki |
| 18:53.09 | Heavy_Mettle | I imagine i can use it in other Debian derivatives. But there is no redhat or opensuse equivalent |
| 18:53.27 | Heavy_Mettle | Makes building packages from source a dream. |
| 18:54.53 | alexrelis[m] | Could installing microcode prevent ACPI errors? |
| 18:55.07 | Heavy_Mettle | Thx for answering. |
| 18:55.11 | sney | np |
| 18:55.49 | sney | alexrelis[m]: potentially, if that's one of the things patched by the microcode update |
| 18:57.30 | alexrelis[m] | sney: I see. Cause I'm having this problem on my new laptop where when I suspend, sometimes it works and other times it freezes. I have no idea what to do besides disabling suspend which isn't quite viable. |
| 18:59.33 | sney | alexrelis[m]: intel or amd? |
| 18:59.45 | alexrelis[m] | sney: AMD |
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| 19:00.24 | sney | the amd64-microcode package hasn't been updated since 2019, so if that's a new cpu, it probably won't include any patches for you |
| 19:00.52 | sney | you might check for an efi update from the laptop vendor though, that can also be a factor. and new kernel from bpo if you aren't using it already |
| 19:01.32 | alexrelis[m] | sney: I am on Sid (sorry for asking for advice here, I don't have an OFTC account yet) |
| 19:01.47 | quadrathoch2 | shouldn't the amd microcode be updated because of security fixes? |
| 19:01.56 | quadrathoch2 | i was pretty sure in 2020 we had an issue with amd |
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| 19:03.03 | alexrelis[m] | Hopefully the UEFI on my system can be upgraded with FreeDOS. I would have to open up my system and put in the stock Windows drive every time there was a new update otherwise... |
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| 19:03.50 | quadrathoch2 | alexrelis[m] there are also live usb images for windows |
| 19:04.15 | alexrelis[m] | quadrathoch2: I heard Windows 2 Go was depreciated. |
| 19:04.16 | quadrathoch2 | but nowadays most uefis are flashable by usb (fat32) |
| 19:04.24 | sney | alexrelis[m]: registering on oftc only takes a few seconds, I don't know what extra steps you need from a matrix bridge, but if you're going to use irc all the time you might as well use a regular irc client anyway. the sid advice in OFTC #debian-next is better because more developers/power users idle there than here |
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| 19:05.07 | sney | but anyway, modern efis are usually pretty trivial to update. I have one in a 6-year-old board that can update itself from a usb drive within the efi menu. there's also fwupd |
| 19:05.26 | quadrathoch2 | alexrelis[m] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufacture/desktop/winpe-intro |
| 19:05.41 | alexrelis[m] | quadrathoch2: Huzzah |
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| 19:07.09 | quadrathoch2 | alexrelis[m] I didn't read/listen to that word for a very long time xD |
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| 19:13.50 | sney | quadrathoch2: it did seem odd that there wasn't a new microcode package since 2019, so I checked the upstream - unlike intel, amd64-microcode comes from kernel.org's linux-firmware repo, and there haven't been any amd cpu microcode updates there since 2019-12-18 either. |
| 19:14.23 | sney | so any 2020 ryzen issues that could be fixed via microcode updates are hanging out to dry, I guess. for now. |
| 19:14.53 | ratrace | alexrelis[m]: are you sure your EFI/BIOS thing can't read updates from USB drives directly? Mine can. I think most modern ones can |
| 19:15.00 | ratrace | (and mine is 6 years old now) |
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| 19:15.19 | quadrathoch2 | sney let me look into it. maybe it was an AGESA update |
| 19:15.34 | sney | ratrace: certainly worth trying that before downloading some 4GB winpe rescue disk |
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| 19:15.59 | ratrace | right |
| 19:16.02 | alexrelis[m] | ratrace: I'm sure it can to. But since my computer has come straight off the production line two weeks ago, I don't think there is even an update for my system. And if there's no microcode update I'm pretty screwed. |
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| 19:16.33 | quadrathoch2 | alexrelis[m] look into it. mainbards manufacturers don't flash their newest firmware most of the time |
| 19:16.35 | ratrace | alexrelis[m]: zen 3? |
| 19:17.36 | alexrelis[m] | ratrace: It's a Ryzen 4700U |
| 19:17.41 | quadrathoch2 | sney ahh, it _was_ an agesa update. so sounds fair that there wasn't a microcode update |
| 19:17.48 | alexrelis[m] | So maybe zen 2? |
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| 19:18.28 | ratrace | alexrelis[m]: yes I think that's zen2, so updates, if any, should be there |
| 19:18.40 | quadrathoch2 | zen 2 |
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| 19:46.38 | dashs | How do I grok (do have the ip) who is calling ypproc_match requesting a map I do not maintain? |
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| 20:05.45 | trysten | does anybody know how to punch a DNS server into behaving? My router is returning old/stale ipv6 addresses for the local domain. http://paste.debian.net/1179179/ <- the 6cf address is stale or something, but the 4a0 address works. Applications just try the first address and so fail to connect |
| 20:07.06 | greycat | I doubt we can help you unless your router is running Debian. |
| 20:12.09 | sney | you could probably run dnsmasq locally and do your overrides there |
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| 20:22.36 | Schwarzbaer | Hi. I was about to update my system, but got this: "libc6-dev : Breaks: libgcc-9-dev (< 9.3.0-5~) but 9.2.1-19 is to be installed" I assume that that's something worse than "It'll resolve itself when upgrading"? |
| 20:22.47 | greycat | !debian-next |
| 20:22.47 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc |
| 20:23.35 | Schwarzbaer | Thanks. |
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| 20:48.44 | unixbsd | Hello, would you know eventually an package that does Eboard server for multiplayer? (using eboard, ... xboard.,... networking). |
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| 20:58.12 | sney | !search |
| 20:58.12 | dpkg | Please search for things rather than just asking, e.g. «apt-cache search regex», or with <aptitude search>. The following ways can locate packages that own a file (installed, or candidate for install): «dpkg -S /bin/foo», <apt-file>, <pdo> (online) and «/msg judd help file» (bot). <search dpkg> for factoids. See http://wiki.debian.org/WhereIsIt and ask me about <bot help>. See also <axi-search> <debtags> <dlocate>. |
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| 21:19.05 | Ede|Popede | aren't programs which are automatically started after logging in into the DE supposed to finish after the user logs out again? |
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| 21:19.37 | quadrathoch2 | Ede|Popede depends on how they were started |
| 21:19.39 | Ede|Popede | i've had some in the past already taking their time to do so, but they did in the end at least |
| 21:19.41 | greycat | what program, what DE? |
| 21:19.43 | n4dir | i guess not all. Say if i start screen or mocp, it keeps running even if i log out |
| 21:19.59 | n4dir | xmms2 too |
| 21:20.07 | greycat | n4dir: he said "automatically" though, which makes me think of systemd --user stuff |
| 21:20.42 | n4dir | greycat: yeah, well, you are right of course. I thought i could start screen with the according autostart file or setting. I gues. |
| 21:20.42 | greycat | or, like, ssh-agent, whether that's started by systemd --user or not |
| 21:22.05 | Ede|Popede | greycat: fresh install of buster. selected everything (maybe i'll overwrite the install at some later point, so i'll maybe play a bit with it). had everything available, but decided to start my well-known xfce first. and now guess what the parent process of all these abandoned ones is. correct, it's systemd. |
| 21:22.37 | Ede|Popede | some evolution-whatever, and mostly A LOT of gvfs(d)-* |
| 21:24.04 | jmcnaught | Ede|Popede: are you checking if these programs are still running as a different user, or as the same user logged into a different tty? |
| 21:24.14 | Ede|Popede | it's just the basic install so far, no mc, so quickly jumping around the fs and looking at files is a lot of typing right now, also no htop, only top, which for some reason cuts off even the program names :/ |
| 21:24.42 | Ede|Popede | jmcnaught: logged out yesterday already and forgot about it. running root on tty2. |
| 21:25.44 | jmcnaught | Ede|Popede: root login, or su/sudo? |
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| 21:26.10 | Ede|Popede | su, no sudo. i have been reported already after trying to use sudo :( |
| 21:26.44 | Ede|Popede | don't ask me how often i had to change my root password for this machine because of sudo... |
| 21:27.06 | Ede|Popede | sometimes you still want to get a plain root shell w/o going through user account first, and then meh. |
| 21:27.16 | jmcnaught | Ede|Popede: try logging out of tty2 completely and log into it as root. systemd user instances (systemctl --user â¦) are not per session, they are per user. So if you are still logged into another session as that user it would probably leave it running. |
| 21:29.13 | Ede|Popede | jmcnaught: i only had the DE running for the user. opening a root shell in another tty is sth i usually do with new installation to check for oddities like this one. |
| 21:29.32 | Ede|Popede | so no, only root logged in so far. user account isn't running since yesterday. |
| 21:30.07 | Ede|Popede | i remembered this behaviour from the past, so i decided to give it some time to finish, but even now it's still running. |
| 21:30.49 | Ede|Popede | but ok, i'll leave even with root. should it stop it then, this *really* would be... phew... |
| 21:31.31 | jmcnaught | Ede|Popede: so "loginctl list-users" does not list your user and there is still a systemd user instance running for the user? |
| 21:32.38 | Ede|Popede | jmcnaught: it lists my user, but why? i'm logged out, everything running wasn't started by me |
| 21:32.55 | Ede|Popede | even if it's autostart, like mailchecker and the like, shouldn't it finish with the DE logout? |
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| 21:33.44 | Ede|Popede | iirc i had to kill a certain gvfs process in the situation i had in the past which then took the others with it |
| 21:34.07 | Ede|Popede | evolution-* is something i would suspect blocking everything else |
| 21:34.14 | jmcnaught | Ede|Popede: systemd user instances are not per-session, you had two sessions open for one user. You closed one. One is still open. So the systemd user instance remains. |
| 21:34.17 | n4dir | i sure remember gvfs being such a pain that i always end uninstalling it altogether. Whatever it takes with it |
| 21:34.35 | Ede|Popede | jmcnaught: why two? |
| 21:35.49 | jmcnaught | Ede|Popede: I thought that you said you were logged into another terminal (besides the xfce one) as root but you used su. If you used su, that does not close the original user's session. |
| 21:36.58 | Ede|Popede | err.. not su, now i got it. logged in directly. usually i don't use text terminals, unless i have to check something or get around starting a user session. no, it was direct login. |
| 21:37.12 | Ede|Popede | seems i'm thinking too much in su vs. sudo terms |
| 21:38.01 | Ede|Popede | and: tracker-miner-fs is a REALLY bad name. triggers some warning synapses |
| 21:38.27 | greycat | ... and people wonder why I don't use a DE |
| 21:39.08 | Ede|Popede | i have a small wm with the oder mini installation (about 280 packages) |
| 21:39.29 | Ede|Popede | i think it's awesome |
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| 21:41.41 | Ede|Popede | agent (something geoclue) and also applet.py are also running. checking... |
| 21:42.28 | n4dir | geoclue you can disable in the xfce settings manager (that gui thing) |
| 21:45.46 | Ede|Popede | first time i ever noticed it. here (still on stretch for the moment) i don't have it at least, and as i said, i threw all available DMs to the other PC these days, just because i have the diskspace. |
| 21:46.12 | Ede|Popede | so even worse than just going with the metapackage for a DE, i did it with all of them! |
| 21:47.26 | Ede|Popede | and of course i checked everything in the settings menu, though i tried not to change anything, only switched to a dark theme for convenience. but i was surprised how much was listed already in all these autostart lists and whatever there may be around. |
| 21:48.48 | Ede|Popede | now i wish i'd play Kalto. then i'd know which one to stop to finish this nightmare ;) |
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| 22:12.00 | Ede|Popede | oh. well. everything broken in xfce now. the 3 icons i left are mid-screen, no panel visible, the menu text is white on light-grey. |
| 22:12.36 | jhutchins | I told somebody that I'd installed Acrobat on Linux. Well, I did once upon a time, but they stopped supporting it in 2013, and it doesn't look like they have started again even though they support Android. At least Android only has one distribution, even if they do have a broad range of versions. |
| 22:13.38 | zutat | the android app costs like 40 eur/month if you opt in for all features |
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| 22:14.04 | jhutchins | I've had to support three different distros at the same time, it's a pain even when they all use the same package format. |
| 22:15.21 | jhutchins | zutat: Sheesh! |
| 22:15.50 | jhutchins | zutat: It might be installable through Wine. |
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| 22:16.45 | sney | I got the last pre-cc acroread to install in wine earlier this year. it worked ok. |
| 22:17.07 | jhutchins | sney: pre-cc? |
| 22:17.34 | sney | pre-creative cloud. the last version that was just an application on disk that didn't need to phone home for updates every 5 minutes |
| 22:17.47 | sney | I think it was version 9 or 10 |
| 22:18.46 | sney | (canadian government forms use adobe-only features and will not even open in okular/evince/etc) |
| 22:18.46 | Ede|Popede | out and back in. according to the login dialog i accessed this session last time, not a couple of minutes ago? oO |
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| 22:20.09 | jhutchins | I've been lucky that the only need I've had has been for my job, which paid for Accrobat. |
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| 22:21.57 | Ede|Popede | funny. just removed the "save session" checkbox before logging out (saved the session last time so i have something to choose from at login), and now the checkbox *is* unchecked. so the change was written to the config, it still claimed that i didn't use this session today. |
| 22:22.08 | jhutchins | I'm not a big fan of "all your data are belong to us" systems. "Oh, and we're shutting down tomorrow." |
| 22:23.03 | jhutchins | Ede|Popede: Gnome? |
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| 22:23.15 | Ede|Popede | jhutchins: out of a habit, xfce |
| 22:24.00 | Ede|Popede | i'll recreate the original user dir, let's see if this is reproducable |
| 22:25.43 | Ede|Popede | `mount fills 2/3 of my screen Oo |
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| 22:27.33 | jhutchins | Ede|Popede: That's what I use, but then again I never log out, so I'd miss session problems. |
| 22:28.35 | jhutchins | Ede|Popede: Yeah, they started putting a lot of crap pseudo-mounts in there. df is good to see actual filesystems. |
| 22:28.59 | Ede|Popede | i started using findmnt |
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| 22:30.35 | Ede|Popede | i knew it. mc's layout with double lines breaks the output. looks like in the 90s now |
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| 22:36.32 | Ede|Popede | so i had 3 runs of xfce in total and now the same number of running instances of both geoclue agent and system-config-printer/applet.py. coincidence? conspiracy? a sign? we'll find out right after the break. |
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| 22:40.47 | Ede|Popede | does the text more login have the option to DISPLAY the password? that's really annoying |
| 22:41.04 | Ede|Popede | else i think i'll have to leave root pw emptxy |
| 22:41.47 | jhutchins | Ede|Popede: I wouldn't recommend it. |
| 22:41.55 | Ede|Popede | and why? |
| 22:42.00 | jhutchins | Especially if you are encrypting. |
| 22:42.12 | Ede|Popede | i don't think the concrete wall behind me will tell it to anyone |
| 22:42.39 | Ede|Popede | computers are used at home these days |
| 22:42.59 | zutat | homes are also computers now |
| 22:43.06 | Ede|Popede | if someone can hack me by reading the pw on the screen i definitely have other problems |
| 22:43.24 | Ede|Popede | smart homes for dumb people, yes |
| 22:44.06 | jhutchins | If they can read the screen directly they don't need the password. |
| 22:44.12 | Ede|Popede | a house full of IoT is what mobile phones have been in the 90s or a sports car in the 70s. actually used by some, but for most just an addon to their ego |
| 22:45.03 | Ede|Popede | a password on a screen is only a problem if someone is able to read it who shouldn't be able to read it |
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| 22:45.52 | Ede|Popede | seems the root pw has changed anyway since my last login, tried it 3 or 4 times now, was refused every single time |
| 22:46.22 | Ede|Popede | FINALLY |
| 22:46.48 | Ede|Popede | it doesn't even let me know if there is a signal arriving in the system when i press a key |
| 22:47.38 | Ede|Popede | so how do i display the pw? |
| 22:48.04 | Ede|Popede | still that runtime commands file in /etc? |
| 22:48.10 | Ede|Popede | err, runlevel |
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| 23:04.42 | alexrelis[m] | I can't passthrough my USB to KVM. I get this error: |
| 23:04.43 | alexrelis[m] | https://paste.debian.net/hidden/8bb699c1/ |
| 23:05.38 | alexrelis[m] | I think it's because when I originally passed through a USB flash drive (which worked), I safetly ejected in the Windows Guest VM the USB root hub that KVM actually needed. |
| 23:07.04 | jhutchins | alexrelis[m]: Sounds possible, although I use virtualbox. |
| 23:08.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1195] by debhelper |
| 23:08.01 | alexrelis[m] | At this point, I'm so sick and tired of computer problems that I may as well live in the woods. |
| 23:08.05 | jhutchins | alexrelis[m]: I've also done a lot of VMWare. You do have to enable the device in the hypervisor. |
| 23:08.19 | alexrelis[m] | I see. |
| 23:08.56 | jhutchins | I take it there's an issue with rebooting the VM? |
| 23:09.02 | alexrelis[m] | No |
| 23:09.14 | t3st3r | its not qemu thing, its some libvirt crap |
| 23:09.17 | alexrelis[m] | jhutchins: The VM is working fine, I just want to pass through a USB. |
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| 23:12.57 | Ede|Popede | nothing for agetty, nothing for login |
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| 23:13.41 | Ede|Popede | seems i must change my root pw to 1111 or so just to avoid sitting half an hour in front of the tty while it pauses after hell knows how many unsuccessful logins |
| 23:14.21 | greycat | what the FUCK are you talking about |
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| 23:14.54 | Ede|Popede | about having no hint that the password is actually correct until i'm thrown back again instead to the shell |
| 23:15.21 | Ede|Popede | 1. TYPE 2. CHECK 3. SEND |
| 23:15.38 | Ede|Popede | that's the default workflow in keyboard based communication |
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| 23:16.01 | Ede|Popede | doesn't matter if it's irc or login. err wait, it does. no step 2 for login |
| 23:16.23 | greycat | Are you trying to say "I have set my root password to something I am unable to type consistently, and this is causing me problems"? |
| 23:16.45 | Ede|Popede | and then the keyboard is plain crap i have to use, just because, and that's the next thing, it has no cable. so i never know what actually arrives in the keyboard buffer |
| 23:17.18 | Ede|Popede | whatever password it is i NEVER would have the guarantee on that machine, just because end user hardware sucks |
| 23:17.34 | n4dir | my root password is root. That should work, no matter what a crap keyboard you have. |
| 23:17.39 | Ede|Popede | and i really can't pay 150⬠for some gamer keyboard |
| 23:17.49 | alexrelis[m] | uploaded an image: image.png (241KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/NYTQWlMygndtUEgAyLXAralv/image.png > |
| 23:18.16 | alexrelis[m] | n4dir: My root password is hunter2 |
| 23:18.25 | n4dir | that seems just as easy |
| 23:18.34 | Ede|Popede | root is good, just needs 2 keys with a neighbour |
| 23:18.53 | alexrelis[m] | Context http://bash.org/?244321 |
| 23:18.58 | n4dir | at home i see no point in complicated passwords |
| 23:19.20 | Ede|Popede | heh, nice one. |
| 23:20.15 | Ede|Popede | though the sad thing is some people are really like that |
| 23:20.41 | alexrelis[m] | I'd recommend a hardware authentication key for people like that. |
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| 23:21.14 | Ede|Popede | "i did it because they told me so" after asking why the fuck i got a facebook invitation in the name of that person and was told by her she had uploaded her contacts to the site -.- |
| 23:21.27 | Ede|Popede | what? for a homecomputer? |
| 23:22.49 | jhutchins | alexrelis[m]: Yeah, 'cause nobody ever looses keys or flash drives. |
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| 23:28.53 | Ede|Popede | how to avoid SPoF and at the same time not to spread access options. the only thing that's sure in this model is that it will be the wrong decision. |
| 23:29.34 | Monodroid | Happy new year and down with the covid tyranny ;) |
| 23:29.53 | *** part/#debian nickodd (~nickodd@unaffiliated/nickodd) |
| 23:30.59 | Ede|Popede | yeah, happy new year and enjoy the most quiet new year's eve you ever may experience xD |
| 23:31.09 | robobox | I like it that way |
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| 23:32.43 | Ede|Popede | some charity has been advertising for decades "Brot statt Böller" (better donate than try to frighten your neighbours' pets to death), though i prefer "Bier statt Böller", cheers ;) |
| 23:33.41 | robobox | why not both bread and beer? |
| 23:33.51 | jhutchins | Ede|Popede: When using acronyms that may not be commonly known by your audience, it is good practice (according to journalistic style books) to spell out the terrm when it is first used, with the acronym in either parenthases or square brackets following the term. The acronym is then considered a valid substitution in subsequent text. |
| 23:34.03 | Ede|Popede | beer is liquid bread, so it's inclusive ;) |
| 23:34.09 | robobox | lol |
| 23:34.32 | jhutchins | Ede|Popede: WTF is SPoF? |
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| 23:35.02 | Ede|Popede | jhutchins: i really.. ah, THAT one. single point of failure. i thought it was really common with today's interwebz |
| 23:35.15 | jhutchins | Thanks. |
| 23:35.23 | robobox | Single Point of Failure |
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| 23:35.48 | jhutchins | Ede|Popede: Yeah, that one's not too bad if there's context, but you didn't give much. |
| 23:36.13 | t3st3r | Ede|Popede> there're some funny devices that could pretend they're keyboard and type password for you :) |
| 23:36.38 | Ede|Popede | some "thumbdrives" can do about everything i've read :) |
| 23:36.53 | Ede|Popede | including grilling your board |
| 23:37.02 | t3st3r | though it's relatively exotic/geeky approach - and if you fail to remember password and lose device, eh, well... |
| 23:38.32 | t3st3r | <Ede|Popede> including grilling your board <- Oh, saw that as well. But TBH not the worst prank on ppl who like to "borrow" items they don't own. |
| 23:38.45 | brokencycle | Hi! I have a networking problem: Given a Debian host with a bridge device and a VM (KVM) |
| 23:38.47 | Ede|Popede | some years ago i realized that some wifi devices come as storage until the driver gets installed. usb really is universal and tbh i liked the approach. rather elegant. |
| 23:39.06 | brokencycle | running on top, it seems to be impossible to ping the host from the VM and vice versa. However, pinging |
| 23:39.26 | brokencycle | the VM from the outside, or pinging the outside from the VM works like a charm. |
| 23:40.03 | t3st3r | Ede|Popede> some cell modems also do so. And few others. Actually USB device can change what it is on the fly. Ever heard of BadUSB? |
| 23:40.22 | Ede|Popede | t3st3r: rings a bell, but i gotta read |
| 23:40.40 | brokencycle | Both the host and the VM run Debian, both are in the same netowork, IP wise, and there are no |
| 23:40.44 | Ede|Popede | ah, that one. yep. |
| 23:40.45 | t3st3r | This like double edged sword. If some usb device elects to become keyboard, and type some funny crap... well, guess |
| 23:40.52 | brokencycle | iptables rules in the way, as far as I can see. |
| 23:41.15 | brokencycle | It's just that neither machines answer to ARP requests. |
| 23:41.37 | Ede|Popede | t3st3r: seems it came the year after badbios |
| 23:41.39 | brokencycle | Or so it seems. |
| 23:42.03 | t3st3r | Ede|Popede> BadUSB is quite old thing IIRC. Its concept is even older. |
| 23:42.17 | Ede|Popede | the article i'm reading is from 2014 |
| 23:43.54 | Ede|Popede | oh, badbios was already able to use speakers and microphones of air gapped systems to communicate |
| 23:45.58 | t3st3r | There're many funny unexpected ways to communicate. Say, some program attempted to display fairly specific image on display - to provoke monitor cable into RF emissions. |
| 23:46.22 | CrystalMath | tempest for eliza |
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| 23:49.35 | Ede|Popede | even human communication. use your hands like the bene gesserit or your eyes like a good hostage |
| 23:49.55 | Ede|Popede | while you're saying something totally unrelated |
| 23:50.45 | *** join/#debian rgr (~rgr@p200300e417153ecc0dbc18719ceed1d9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:51.06 | *** join/#debian elkalamar_ (~elkalamar@unaffiliated/elkalamar) |
| 23:54.49 | mrkramps | iirc air gap works over RAM now ⦠using patterns to generate wifi signals |
| 23:55.55 | Monodroid | The new year scares me.. people still sleep and dont see what its the real goal of all this. |
| 23:56.23 | robobox | of what? |
| 23:56.32 | *** join/#debian frgo (~frgo@p200300deef081300e80835b69a79a1d5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:56.38 | Monodroid | of the entire covid thing.. |
| 23:56.41 | Sarcutus | Bene Gesserit ... don't see that reference dropped often ... |
| 23:57.00 | Monodroid | they wear masks like sheeps, question nothing... |
| 23:57.22 | CrystalMath | Monodroid: well you know, don't ascribe to malice that which can be adequately ascrbied to stupdidity |
| 23:57.26 | CrystalMath | *stupidity |
| 23:57.26 | robobox | because there isn't anything to question |
| 23:57.32 | CrystalMath | i had too much champaign to type correctly |
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| 23:57.59 | Sarcutus | The coronavirus only has the goal of killing lots of people. Not to hard to grok. |
| 23:58.09 | Sarcutus | *too |
| 23:58.10 | Sarcutus | ack |
| 23:58.18 | Monodroid | they survey you with drones if you go out, tell you when to go out etc. If you dont see that its not about a virus, then let you vax |
| 23:58.31 | CrystalMath | Sarcutus: nonsense! |
| 23:58.32 | Monodroid | yeah.. |
| 23:58.36 | CrystalMath | viruses don't want to kill people |
| 23:58.39 | CrystalMath | their goal is to survive |
| 23:58.41 | beelzebuzz | is this one of those cigar-smoking lizard conversations? |
| 23:58.43 | CrystalMath | like every other lifeform |
| 23:58.57 | robobox | by using your resources up |
| 23:59.21 | CrystalMath | they don't want to use too much |
| 23:59.26 | robobox | if you want it to end sooner try folding@home |
| 23:59.29 | Sarcutus | CrystalMath: you're absolutely correct, killing people is ACTUALLY totally secondary to the virus's "goals," because it hasn't really got any goals, it's just sort of like the wind |
| 23:59.32 | CrystalMath | RNA viruses cannot stay inside forever |
| 23:59.44 | CrystalMath | so they evolve to spread, not install themselves |
| 23:59.47 | Monodroid | research dr. stefan lanka @robobox |
