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| 00:56.39 | scruloose | This may be a dumb question, but... is there any way to run Docker containers on Buster without simply accepting that anything running as root in any of the containers also has root on the host? |
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| 00:57.14 | scruloose | https://medium.com/@Affix/privilege-escallation-with-docker-56dc682a6e17 |
| 01:00.17 | scruloose | Apparently there's a "rootless mode" now, but it was introduced as experimental in v19.03 and "graduated from experimental in Docker Engine v20.10" |
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| 01:02.10 | scruloose | But the version in Buster repos is 18.09 and there doesn't seem to be a backport. |
| 01:04.07 | backupluis | Hi, I have a problem when I create a large file, for example copying to samba share or when I start to download a big torrent, the disk stay busy (For file creation) for a long time and all other process such as PHP get stuck trying for access to filesystem for a long time, in my example I use php to serve movies to my internal network and playback stops when such large operations are in process, Is there any way to set debian give low |
| 01:04.07 | backupluis | priority to file creation process or to give high priority to php disk read? |
| 01:04.49 | freem | ionice? |
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| 01:06.15 | scruloose | Am I missing something, or is the situation actually just that a) to use docker containers you must be in the docker group, b) being in the docker group allows you to run the docker program, which is SUID root, and c) full, persistent root privilege escalation is trivial for containers running on a system with SUID root docker executable...? |
| 01:08.39 | backupluis | I just search for ionice and this is what I need, thanks freem. |
| 01:08.49 | freem | yw |
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| 01:10.31 | scruloose | But the package description for docker.io in the Buster repos says it provides "strong guarantees of isolation..." I keep thinking I must be confused about some piece of this. Anyone? |
| 01:11.26 | sney | scruloose: if it's something as fundamental as that, it should be true on all platforms, so you might get the best answers in #docker |
| 01:11.47 | sney | docker.io may be in the debian archive but there's not typically a lot of support for it in here |
| 01:12.00 | sney | or endorsement, etc |
| 01:12.14 | freem | I don't know about this particular problem, but docker is just namespaces+cgroups+chroot+selinux (or maybe apparmor). I don't think any of those tech can protect magically without efforts against everything |
| 01:12.52 | freem | but maybe I'm wrong about everything on that one. |
| 01:13.46 | scruloose | Well, current docker release doesn't require SUID root, apparently... though it does rely on kernel unpriv userns... which most distros have enabled by default but Debian doesn't.... so a lot of this may actually be Debian-specific. |
| 01:14.57 | freem | maybe you can enable userns with sysctl? |
| 01:15.59 | scruloose | freem: yep, but I'm still stuck with an old SUID-only Docker v18, so then I have *two* problems. ;-) |
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| 01:17.56 | scruloose | I think this is the first time I've been actually shocked to find something absent in debian-backports. |
| 01:20.28 | scruloose | And sure, none of those tech can protect magically against all threats, but there's a big gap between that and "makes it trivially easy to access the entire host filesystem with root privileges", yes? |
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| 01:21.28 | freem | but didn't you said yourself the containers' content runs as root? Which is... well, not a classic security measure :) |
| 01:22.44 | scruloose | True, but so does, say, mount. Show me an easily-exploitable privilege-escalation avenue in mount, and I'll be impressed. Or chrome-sandbox. |
| 01:24.35 | scruloose | AFAICT, the Docker release in the official Buster repos doesn't "potentially contain exploitable privilege-escalation bugs" so much as "provides privilege escalation right out of the box" |
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| 01:24.42 | freem | mount is a program, probably receiving security fixs since decades. chrome is younger, but I'd say it also have people caring about it's sec (plus, it does not runs as root IIRC) |
| 01:25.09 | freem | but yeah, I agree this shuold be fixed. It's not my intent to say it's normal :) |
| 01:25.13 | scruloose | Not chrome, chrome-sandbox. Which does run SUID root. |
| 01:25.27 | freem | does it? I didn't knew that, thanks for info |
| 01:25.55 | sney | isn't being able to run a containerized app from an unknown source, without it being able to mess with anything outside the container, the *whole point* of docker? |
| 01:26.10 | sney | this seems like a major oversight considering that |
| 01:27.21 | scruloose | sney: Yes, that. That is exactly why I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this and keep hoping I'm missing something. |
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| 01:28.41 | sney | I don't use docker so I'm unfamiliar with the technical details, but this seems pretty fundamental. maybe it's fine, it's just not documented well. |
| 01:29.29 | scruloose | freem: Yeah, chrome-sandbox an older approach to sandboxing. Start with SUID root, do the namespace stuff (without userns needing to be enabled), then run the sandboxed program as the invoking regular user, but in the sandbox. |
| 01:29.55 | freem | and with changing uid I hope :) |
| 01:31.12 | scruloose | Given that a quick google search brings up tutorials on how not to accidentally create root-owned files on the host system that you then can't access as the user who invoked the docker container... I'm not optimistic about that. |
| 01:31.53 | scruloose | Accidental. Root. File creation. I think I need to go lie down. |
| 01:32.00 | freem | I meant, for chrome-sandboxing |
| 01:32.08 | freem | haha yeah clearly |
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| 01:33.05 | scruloose | freem: yes. Once the chrome-sandbox thing has done the setup, it runs whatever program *as the regular user* who invoked it. Not as root. |
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| 01:34.36 | scruloose | In case you thought I was being hyperbolic, here's an example of said tutorials: https://vsupalov.com/docker-shared-permissions/ |
| 01:36.18 | freem | don't worry, I trusted you on that one. I think containers are seen as some magic silver (or mithril maybe?) bullet solving all security problems |
| 01:36.35 | freem | by many people, at least |
| 01:37.25 | freem | I admit I don't know containers, but I've read enough blogs articles where people seemed surprised of the behavior/weight of their systems |
| 01:38.10 | scruloose | freem: I mean, yes, that's true, but I think it kind of misses the point. I'm not freaking out because containers fail to provide the advertised level of protection. I'm freaking out because the Mithril-mail vest is *surprise* actually a bomb! |
| 01:38.14 | freem | I personnally intend to study them (lxc or docker) when I'll have real understandiing of the kernel features they use. I feel that otherwise it's a bit... pointless |
| 01:38.44 | freem | I see what you mean |
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| 01:41.07 | scruloose | So who should I pester about backporting Docker v 20-something (which can work in "rootless mode" from Bullseye to Buster as, like, an urgent security priority? |
| 01:42.17 | scruloose | Because people *are* adding users to the docker group, and they *are* spinning up all sorts of stuff in Docker containers... |
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| 01:46.53 | sney | scruloose: file a bug against src:docker.io in stable. it'll get to the right people. buster-security had a docker upload about 6 months ago via the same route |
| 01:47.32 | sney | scruloose: when you get to the tags section in reportbug, make sure to include the 'security' tag |
| 01:48.18 | scruloose | Got it. Thanks for the pointer. |
| 01:49.13 | sney | np. and if you happen to be wrong about this, it's also a good way to get the truth in writing. :) |
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| 01:56.16 | scruloose | sney: I really hope I'm wrong about this. |
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| 02:01.42 | another | fwiw: i've been beginning to look at rootless containers with podman which is in testing |
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| 02:12.01 | yanmaani | How do you get apt to use another mirror of a repository in sources.list? |
| 02:12.05 | yanmaani | Is there some way to refresh it? |
| 02:12.36 | freem | might use HTTP_PROXY iirc, or apt's config key for that variable |
| 02:12.43 | freem | if taht's what you meant |
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| 02:34.53 | kiwichap | hello |
| 02:35.11 | kiwichap | I am having a problem, if someone has an idea to help it would be good |
| 02:35.35 | kiwichap | I cannot get into my computer because the password for the root contains characters in a different language keyboard |
| 02:35.41 | kiwichap | basically this character |
| 02:35.55 | kiwichap | °° |
| 02:36.21 | kiwichap | does anyone know how to type this in the us keyboard or is there a way I can change it at sign in the keyboard to the other language |
| 02:36.29 | kiwichap | so I can get in |
| 02:37.20 | kiwichap | I just thought for system commands I was getting lost with the non american keyboard for simple things like / or whatever |
| 02:38.03 | kiwichap | 1154 people nobody here to know this answer? |
| 02:38.32 | kiwichap | it's annoying |
| 02:40.44 | karlpinc | kiwichap: I don't suppose you can cut and paste? |
| 02:40.53 | kiwichap | no |
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| 02:42.25 | karlpinc | kiwichap: Does this help? https://help.ubuntu.com/stable/ubuntu-help/tips-specialchars.html.en |
| 02:42.54 | karlpinc | (One of the first things to come up when googling "linux character not on keyboard".) |
| 02:43.18 | kiwichap | yes that might help |
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| 02:43.55 | karlpinc | kiwichap: I'm thinking the ctrl+shift+U+... technique might work. |
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| 02:44.19 | karlpinc | can't recall if the sysctl key has anything to do with code points |
| 02:44.23 | kiwichap | the password is this ° |
| 02:44.30 | kiwichap | what is that one |
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| 02:44.56 | karlpinc | kiwichap: Dunno. Use wikipeida's article on unicode or code points or something. |
| 02:44.59 | kiwichap | ctrl + shift + U |
| 02:45.22 | karlpinc | kiwichap: Wikipedia will have a complete list somewhere. |
| 02:46.32 | karlpinc | kiwichap: This https://superuser.com/questions/59418/how-to-type-special-characters-in-linux says hold down ctrl and shift and type the code point in hex. |
| 02:47.54 | kiwichap | what's the code point |
| 02:48.31 | themill | If that's DEGREE SIGN, it's U+00B0 |
| 02:48.52 | karlpinc | kiwichap: Dunno. You have to either look it up or cut and paste it into something that tells you. |
| 02:49.27 | karlpinc | thinks it'd be nice to have a dpkg factoid for typing characters, but can't even recall how to search to look for such a thing |
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| 02:51.00 | kiwichap | thanks going to try |
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| 02:59.26 | kiwichap | ok I haven't got in yet but the shift ctrl U and the 00B0 worked |
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| 03:00.41 | kiwichap | can someone provide me a link |
| 03:00.48 | kiwichap | cause I have another one |
| 03:02.16 | kiwichap | é this one and é" |
| 03:02.24 | kiwichap | " |
| 03:02.33 | kiwichap | that looks the same it's just the e with the accent |
| 03:03.56 | kiwichap | found a table thank you |
| 03:04.27 | kiwichap | everyone really appreciated... karlpinc themill not in yet but close |
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| 03:05.39 | themill | np |
| 03:06.39 | kiwichap | thank you I am in now |
| 03:06.53 | kiwichap | that would be funny if someone could hack my password when I knew the password and could hardly get in |
| 03:09.52 | kiwichap | my internet is working but as a limited connection |
| 03:10.11 | kiwichap | very strange |
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| 04:00.16 | alex11 | is it particularly quick to convert audio files to flac using ffmpeg? |
| 04:00.25 | alex11 | or easy, more importantly |
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| 04:02.37 | koolkat332 | I could try to help you figure that out |
| 04:02.41 | koolkat332 | or find you a video |
| 04:03.00 | koolkat332 | what format is the audio files? |
| 04:03.03 | koolkat332 | wav ? |
| 04:03.48 | koolkat332 | flac |
| 04:04.08 | n4dir | pacpl --to mp3 name_of.wav |
| 04:04.15 | n4dir | is not ffmpeg, of course |
| 04:04.46 | n4dir | should be just as easy. |
| 04:05.51 | n4dir | ffmpeg -i input.mp3 output.ogg |
| 04:05.57 | n4dir | is what the web says. |
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| 04:07.51 | alex11 | so ffmpeg -i input.mp3 output.flac? |
| 04:07.55 | alex11 | or does it have to be ogg |
| 04:08.44 | n4dir | just an example, so no, it sure doesn't have to be for pacpl, i didn't do it with ffmpeg, but guess so |
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| 04:12.35 | alex11 | yeah i guess i'll try it |
| 04:12.44 | alex11 | mind you it's probably the cheap-and-dirty way of doing it and there's better ways |
| 04:12.47 | alex11 | but whatever |
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| 04:21.18 | n4dir | not that i could speak much about it, but ffmpeg looks like a de-facto standard for many things |
| 04:21.33 | n4dir | many things of that kind. duh |
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| 04:23.04 | quadrathoch2 | scruloose, idk, why not directly use podman (as in their repos) or docker repos for the newer version (I guess thatâs why it was never backported) |
| 04:26.02 | de-facto | thinks so too |
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| 05:20.11 | zykotick9 | alex11: converting lossy formats (mp3/ogg/etc) to flac is a waste of space, for zero gain (and probably a tiny bit of loss). |
| 05:20.26 | alex11 | yeah, figures |
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| 06:47.27 | rgr | hmm. Can not get systemctl installr --user services to work using an ecryptfs protected home directory. I thought all user services wouold be started/checked for when logging in but it seems not. |
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| 07:25.50 | unsecur3d | rgr what ? |
| 07:26.07 | unsecur3d | i have lvm with my encryption, dont have an issue with systemtcl what is your issue ? |
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| 07:45.22 | quadrathoch2 | His home folder is encrypted, yours the whole disk I assume, and user services are in the home folder -> issue |
| 07:45.56 | unsecur3d | yup, gotcha |
| 07:46.19 | unsecur3d | cant he just unencrypt on boot ? |
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| 07:47.42 | quadrathoch2 | Why would he want to have the home folder then encrypted and not the whole disk |
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| 07:50.28 | unsecur3d | makes no sense to me, but hey everyone has their ideal setup right :x |
| 07:50.55 | unsecur3d | i just encrypted my whole disk at install and called it a day, for both linux and windows |
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| 07:52.39 | apollo13 | that windows disk encryption thingy where windows uploads the master keys to their servers? :D |
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| 07:54.50 | unsecur3d | nah bitlocker through local AD =) fuck azure, they aint getting my data xD |
| 07:55.51 | unsecur3d | and it sucks because microsoft is really pushing hard for everything Azure from the looks of it, but unless i cannot run local AD i'm not moving to Azure. i like to own my data |
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| 08:13.05 | r3m1 | hello |
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| 08:14.04 | doc|work | anyone know how I can change the path for the cron pidfile. Setting it up in docker. |
| 08:14.09 | doc|work | *? |
| 08:14.29 | r3m1 | i have a remote embedded computer running debian 7. System is installed on an SD card. df shows that there are still plenty of space in the different partitions, however if I try to SCP a file to it it says no space left on device |
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| 08:15.29 | r3m1 | is df reliable ? is there any other alternative ? moreover, the system has been running for ~4 years. Is there any tool that can diagnose the health of the SD card while it is running ? while it is not running ? |
| 08:15.48 | doc|work | sorry, I'm tired, by change I should say specify the pidfile path. I'm starting it using supervisord calling cron -f & |
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| 08:34.14 | quadrathoch2 | r3m1 are you sure the sdcard is healthy? |
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| 08:45.01 | e3d3 | what package do I need to install to get GNU make ? |
| 08:45.20 | azeem_ | e3d3: make |
| 08:45.51 | EdePopede | does a list exist on the changes mozilla makes to firefox? |
| 08:45.53 | e3d3 | azeem_, :) |
| 08:46.20 | e3d3 | azeem_, please forget and erase my question. I was expecting a dev-something package |
| 08:46.23 | azeem_ | EdePopede: can you rephrase that? Cause Mozille makes firefox, it doesn't make changes to it |
| 08:46.42 | wigums | yes they have a changelog |
| 08:46.42 | e3d3 | azeem_, and thanks |
| 08:47.17 | EdePopede | azeem_: debian had even to rename it in the past, so they MUST do some changes. or do they just download the upstream tgz and type "make"? |
| 08:48.05 | e3d3 | what package do I have to install to compile source code, beside 'make' ? |
| 08:48.21 | nkuttler | e3d3: build-essential is a good start |
| 08:48.25 | wigums | build-essentials? |
| 08:48.34 | nkuttler | e3d3: what are you trying to build? |
| 08:48.41 | EdePopede | because whole of mozilla is just a single usability hell, which is far more embarassing for a browser than for any other type of desktop software. |
| 08:48.53 | r3m1 | quadrathoch2: with this behaviour I think the sdcard might not be healthy, but I cant really check |
| 08:49.00 | e3d3 | nkuttler, thank you |
| 08:49.19 | e3d3 | nkuttler, I want to build a newer Emacs version |
| 08:49.24 | r3m1 | quadrathoch2: unless it is possible to check from remote using the system it is currently running on, which seems quite hazardous |
| 08:49.34 | nkuttler | e3d3: apt-get build-dep <emacspackage> |
| 08:50.31 | e3d3 | nkuttler, allready install build-essentials with synaptic, but remember the procedure. Thanks again |
| 08:52.57 | azeem_ | EdePopede: who is "they"? |
| 08:53.36 | azeem_ | I guess you mean "list of changes Debian makes to firefox"? |
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| 08:55.00 | EdePopede | azeem_: i don't know names on debian. only deborah and ian murdock. persons who download code from websites as part of jobs at debian and do things to it until it will be part of the distribution. |
| 08:56.01 | EdePopede | and yes, that's what i said i guess. |
| 08:56.33 | azeem_ | EdePopede: you said "changes mozilla makes to firefox", which just doesn't make sense |
| 08:56.47 | azeem_ | for the changes Debian makes to firefox, download the source package and check it out |
| 08:56.53 | azeem_ | usually they are in debian/patches |
| 08:56.57 | EdePopede | arrrrr, correct. |
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| 08:57.35 | EdePopede | wait, is this a source code file? |
| 08:58.20 | e3d3 | nkuttler, 'apt-get build-dep emacs-27.1' tells 'You must put some 'source' URIs in your sources.list'. What should I do with this ? |
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| 08:58.38 | e3d3 | nkuttler, normal ./configure tells: no X development libraries were found. |
| 08:58.53 | EdePopede | omg, how big *is* /usr/share/doc? it just doesn't `cd` in mc, instead slows down the system |
| 09:00.11 | ksk | EdePopede: does not sound likely to be a expected problem :> |
| 09:00.28 | quadrathoch2 | R3m1 you could look for bad blocks with badblocks |
| 09:00.28 | EdePopede | changelog.Debian is definitely not what i'm looking for |
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| 09:01.04 | e3d3 | nkuttler, should I install xorg-dev ? |
| 09:01.34 | quadrathoch2 | R3m1 btw what file system are you running? |
| 09:01.36 | EdePopede | ksk: same for unpacking the few monster packages like java and office after upgrades, i still had to take them out of the update list for the system load it creates. unpacking xz is still too much for this pc. |
| 09:02.51 | nkuttler | e3d3: i've never built emacs |
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| 09:03.17 | nkuttler | e3d3: but pick the emacs package that is closest to what you want and get the build deps i guess |
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| 09:04.14 | EdePopede | ksk: next to 2400 entries, of which 2050 remain after unmarking links. |
| 09:05.47 | e3d3 | nkuttler, nm, after installing xorg-dev it keeps complaining that 'some' dev libs/packages are missing. Guess I better install everything from synaptic |
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| 09:07.14 | quadrathoch2 | e3d3 did you add sources to sources.list? |
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| 09:07.27 | e3d3 | quadrathoch2, no |
| 09:07.46 | quadrathoch2 | Thatâs why apt build-deps fails |
| 09:08.07 | quadrathoch2 | so why not add them and you get all deps for emacs installed |
| 09:08.20 | e3d3 | quadrathoch2, I don't know about sources.list. Will read about it. Thank you |
| 09:08.46 | quadrathoch2 | !buster sources.list |
| 09:08.46 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main", and optionally "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <buster/updates> <buster-updates> and "man sources.list". |
| 09:08.56 | quadrathoch2 | e3d3 ^ |
| 09:09.06 | quadrathoch2 | The deb-src part |
| 09:09.55 | e3d3 | quadrathoch2, now I understand; I need to add the src-repo, not ? But why if I downloaded the Emacs source and only need build tools ? |
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| 09:12.02 | e3d3 | and which of the multiple available src-repo's do I need, only for the main repo or also for update & security ? |
| 09:12.52 | quadrathoch2 | hm, for an easy backport, you add the deb-src of bullseye, backports and probably main debian repo, apt source <package>, apt build-dep <package>, apt install dpkg-dev, go into the folder of the source -> dch âbpo and then build the whole thing |
| 09:13.14 | quadrathoch2 | !ssb |
| 09:13.15 | dpkg | First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>. |
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| 09:14.03 | quadrathoch2 | ,checkbackport emacs |
| 09:14.30 | judd | Backporting package emacs in sidâbuster/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using archignore, buster, virtual. |
| 09:14.49 | quadrathoch2 | Wow, great sounds like a very easy build |
| 09:14.50 | r3m1 | quadrathoch2: ext4 |
| 09:15.33 | e3d3 | quadrathoch2, maybe I should have told that I'm on Devuan now, but expect the procedure the same. Thanks again |
| 09:15.34 | quadrathoch2 | R3m1 yeah so let badblocks run for a bit, and then it should throw errors at you if you have bad blocks, which means itâs probably a dead sd |
| 09:16.11 | quadrathoch2 | E3d3 hf then, as I donât know if it will work then |
| 09:16.16 | quadrathoch2 | better to ask devuan then |
| 09:16.21 | r3m1 | quadrathoch2: is there a risk for the running system to crash while running badblock ? |
| 09:16.40 | r3m1 | badblocks* |
| 09:17.09 | quadrathoch2 | as long as your system is not at full tilt, no, as it doesnât write the errors anywhere |
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| 10:17.19 | tmm88 | i still can't get my wifi icon to display in debian 10 buster |
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| 10:17.56 | tmm88 | installed all the firmwares i could get hands into including intel 9000 series which is the wifi controller i am actually running |
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| 10:18.13 | tmm88 | updated kernel |
| 10:18.19 | tmm88 | ran modprobe |
| 10:18.51 | tmm88 | install network-"Csomething"-gnome |
| 10:19.04 | tmm88 | but the icon is still not displaying |
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| 10:20.11 | noisemaker | Yesterday I created a new swap file and it worked, but after reboot fstab can't mount it. I follow this doc: https://wiki.debian.org/Swap |
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| 10:22.44 | quadrathoch2 | noisemaker, what does your fstab look like |
| 10:23.36 | Brigo | noisemaker, and the error will be nice too |
| 10:23.46 | noisemaker | quadrathoch2: UUID=953b8ab3-fe56-4188-9625-1d0ce60db954 none swap sw 0 0 |
| 10:23.46 | quadrathoch2 | Yeah |
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| 10:24.32 | noisemaker | Brigo: can't see any error, "free" just has 0 values for swap |
| 10:25.05 | quadrathoch2 | noisemaker, look into the bootlog then |
| 10:25.39 | noisemaker | where is that bootlog ? |
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| 10:27.42 | Brigo | quadrathoch2, have you applied mkswap? |
| 10:28.13 | quadrathoch2 | Brigo, not me ;) |
| 10:28.25 | Brigo | quadrathoch2, ups, sorry :) |
| 10:28.27 | quadrathoch2 | journalctl noisemaker |
| 10:28.29 | jelly | noisemaker, does "blkid" show that UUID on the swap device? (run as root) |
| 10:28.33 | noisemaker | Brigo: yes |
| 10:28.35 | Brigo | noisemaker, ups, sorry :) |
| 10:28.46 | Brigo | damn |
| 10:28.52 | Brigo | noisemaker, , have you applied mkswap? |
| 10:29.06 | noisemaker | jelly: nop |
| 10:29.12 | noisemaker | Brigo: yes |
| 10:29.25 | jelly | noisemaker, what does it say, then, for the new swap device? |
| 10:29.42 | noisemaker | jelly: where ? |
| 10:29.49 | jelly | noisemaker, in blkid |
| 10:29.56 | jelly | wait, you said swap FILE |
| 10:30.29 | jelly | noisemaker, in that case you need to specify the absolute file path in fstab, UUID won't be useful |
| 10:31.00 | noisemaker | jelly: Yesterday I commented the old swap and insert a new one at fstab |
| 10:31.26 | noisemaker | but at blkid just appears the entry for the old one. |
| 10:31.31 | jelly | noisemaker, is it a swap device / partition / lvm, or a swap file? |
| 10:31.42 | noisemaker | Swap file. |
| 10:31.56 | jelly | then use file path in fstab, not uuid |
| 10:32.12 | Brigo | something like this: /swapfile none swap defaults 0 0 |
| 10:32.24 | jelly | /var/local/swapfile none swap defaults 0 0 |
| 10:32.35 | Brigo | noisemaker, where /swapfile is the swap file path |
| 10:33.48 | noisemaker | Done, should I need to reboot or I can refresh the new entry ? |
| 10:34.37 | Brigo | noisemaker, try swapon filename |
| 10:34.39 | jelly | I'm honestly not sure whether a "systemctl daemon-reload" is enough or not |
| 10:34.56 | noisemaker | I will reboot just to make sure. |
| 10:34.59 | jelly | swapon /path/to/file will not read from fstab at all |
| 10:35.02 | jelly | that's a good idea |
| 10:38.20 | noisemaker | Working. Ty |
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| 10:39.34 | Brigo | noisemaker, np |
| 10:39.37 | Brigo | !next |
| 10:39.38 | dpkg | Another happy customer leaves the building. |
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| 10:58.51 | noisemaker | Why does the XFCE apply the UI themes differently for different applications ? |
| 11:01.10 | quadrathoch2 | what do you mean noisemaker |
| 11:01.52 | noisemaker | quadrathoch2: Like, the "nautilus" has the theme applied, but the "firefox" has another. |
| 11:02.33 | quadrathoch2 | huh? Both are gtk apps |
| 11:02.51 | quadrathoch2 | They look maybe different, but are still the same theme? |
| 11:03.10 | quadrathoch2 | As Firefox has the big headerbar, not sure about nautilus |
| 11:04.05 | noisemaker | Can I install themes for xfce from apt ? |
| 11:04.38 | quadrathoch2 | Yes, for example greybird-gtk-theme |
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| 11:04.54 | quadrathoch2 | You can search for gtk-theme |
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| 11:08.08 | noisemaker | Ok, I installed one from apt, and nautilus applied it, but system apps, and apps like firefox doesn't. |
| 11:08.32 | quadrathoch2 | Did you change both, in appearance and window manager |
| 11:08.35 | quadrathoch2 | in settings |
| 11:08.57 | noisemaker | Wait, I think I am mixing themes with window manager. |
| 11:09.19 | noisemaker | I just don't know why nautilus apply the theme settings. |
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| 11:11.15 | noisemaker | quadrathoch2: Ok, need to be applied in that both places. Ty |
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| 11:13.09 | quadrathoch2 | Yw |
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| 12:05.48 | noisemaker | Is possible to create our own Fn keys? Example: "Fn + f" to open Firefox |
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| 12:07.32 | ratrace | maybe via xbindkeys |
| 12:07.47 | ratrace | noisemaker: ^^ or check in your DE/WM of choice for that DE/WM specific bindings |
| 12:07.51 | unborn | noisemaker: it should be....dont remember if fn will explicitly works but you can use windows or super key and your combination |
| 12:07.51 | avu | at least on my machine xev doesn't report a event for Fn |
| 12:08.21 | unborn | fn should not respond to event press, it should be based outside of os |
| 12:08.24 | ratrace | using xev, you can check if the Fn key produces an event, with keycode you could use in binding. if not? then you probably can't |
| 12:09.02 | ratrace | (in which case use the "meta" aka "win" key, yes) |
| 12:09.49 | unborn | - perhaps its all on google anyway noisemaker use super aka windows key |
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| 12:10.56 | unborn | happy new year jelly and ratrace have better then 2020 folks |
| 12:13.58 | noisemaker | Yeah, but Fn key has some functions Super key doesn't |
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| 12:17.01 | noisemaker | Some Fn + keys combinations appears on xev, but not all :( |
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| 12:17.15 | dbristow | join #debian-offtopic |
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| 12:17.21 | unborn | fn should not respond to event press, it should be based outside of os << noisemaker |
| 12:18.40 | noisemaker | unborn: Some keys respond. |
| 12:20.32 | unborn | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:20.37 | ratrace | noisemaker: Fn + <someky> probably do, yes. Fn itself alone probably doesn't |
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| 12:27.56 | noisemaker | In my device, the Fn + some key without hw function respond. Super key is different because with Fn I can fixed it, and in that way things are different. Keys like "s,p,k" appears on xev with Fn combination. |
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| 12:30.21 | BillyZane | hi |
| 12:30.26 | BillyZane | i'm installing debian for the first time in a virtualbox |
| 12:30.43 | BillyZane | i didn't know that the installer had a GUI |
| 12:30.51 | BillyZane | or that you could select a GUI |
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| 12:31.11 | BillyZane | would it be better to not use a GUI if i'm planning to use this as a server |
| 12:31.40 | unborn | ah gui you mean desktop environment like gnome or kde? |
| 12:31.45 | BillyZane | yes |
| 12:31.51 | n4dir | i for one can't see a big difference between the so called GUI and the non GUI version. As far your question is concerned, it doesn't matter, as far i can tell |
| 12:32.07 | unborn | for server just install basic utilities, ssh no gui |
| 12:32.29 | n4dir | of the installer you mean? Or tasksel, when you choose if to install a DesktopEnvironment, and if then which? |
| 12:32.35 | unborn | if you ever need to install apache or de (gui) you can always do via ssh |
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| 12:33.24 | BillyZane | if i install a gui, i think i can configure it so it doesn't boot in to it right? |
| 12:33.32 | unborn | for server standard base and system utilities and ssh should work - that way you have clean base for server then you ssh in and install whatever you need to |
| 12:33.38 | BillyZane | and at which point, if it never starts X, i shouldn't see any stability hits? |
| 12:34.00 | BillyZane | unborn, i see, well i guess that makes sense |
| 12:34.07 | unborn | BillyZane: gui or de as you asking will take some gigs of your ram - for server that is waste |
| 12:34.23 | BillyZane | true |
| 12:34.24 | n4dir | why install a DesktopEnvironment if you never need it? And during installation the tasksel versions, contain lots of apps and stuff you will never need. |
| 12:34.43 | BillyZane | can't argue with that |
| 12:35.08 | n4dir | So imho it is always better to install no DE during installation, but whatever you need after (say: apt-get install xfce4; then the applications needed). |
| 12:35.31 | unborn | agree with n4dir |
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| 12:39.49 | jelly | unborn, well same to you pal! And your loved ones as well! |
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| 12:41.42 | Gertm- | I created a repository for my own things, but when I try to use it, it says it can't find the <URL>/./en folder. What have I forgotten to do? |
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| 12:43.15 | unborn | Gertm-: git or deb? |
| 12:43.24 | Gertm- | unborn: deb |
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| 12:44.18 | unborn | uh - I would say I only know-how-to git repos, sorry. |
| 12:44.43 | Gertm- | unborn: are there good docs on git repos somewhere? |
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| 12:47.30 | unborn | sure they are, you would like to learn? - its very easy https://git-scm.com/docs/gittutorial |
| 12:47.43 | Gertm- | Ok thank you. |
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| 12:49.32 | *** join/#debian ComputerTech (ComputerTe@unaffiliated/computertech) |
| 12:49.37 | ComputerTech | hi |
| 12:49.40 | unborn | you can combine commands with bash and aliases in your system and make it working very fast. be it even your deb packages. I only know how to build deb package and distribute locally means via net or dvd or ubs but system must be online to be able install it.. did not find any docs to how-to create online deb repos (yet) |
| 12:50.21 | unborn | Gertm-:^^^ |
| 12:50.40 | ComputerTech | https://dpaste.com/7VN9ZTLR4 |
| 12:50.52 | ComputerTech | why would ntp not fix a offset? |
| 12:51.03 | ComputerTech | thats what my hoster told me above |
| 12:52.40 | unborn | ComputerTech: nice screenshot.. what the tech replied? |
| 12:53.12 | unborn | oh I see.. its on line 3. |
| 12:53.20 | ComputerTech | yeah |
| 12:53.26 | ComputerTech | confuses me tbh |
| 12:53.32 | ComputerTech | if i install and configure ntp |
| 12:53.40 | ComputerTech | why the heck would their still be offset? |
| 12:53.48 | unborn | ComputerTech: google :) |
| 12:53.57 | ComputerTech | i tried that, but will try again heh |
| 12:55.29 | unborn | ComputerTech: that is a bit off topic you know.. however ntp is very busy thingy.. can you imagine? - every single pc out there asking the time at any time... sometimes it takes minutes sometimes hour-s |
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| 12:55.43 | ComputerTech | oh sorry |
| 12:56.05 | ComputerTech | didn't realise it was offtopic, thanks anyway :) |
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| 12:56.53 | unborn | ComputerTech: is that debian server? |
| 12:56.59 | ComputerTech | yeah |
| 12:57.07 | ComputerTech | which is why i thought i should join here ¯\_(ã)_/¯ |
| 12:57.18 | *** join/#debian Stx (~stx@freenode/staff/stx) |
| 12:57.19 | unborn | ComputerTech: you shouldn't have any issues meh what os version? |
| 12:57.57 | ComputerTech | sec |
| 12:57.59 | unborn | ComputerTech: you are on right place for sure |
| 12:58.05 | ComputerTech | oh good :P |
| 12:59.00 | ComputerTech | mmm this server is a friend of mines via irc, so he's offline now i think |
| 12:59.08 | ComputerTech | is this command to check os version? uname -r |
| 12:59.31 | ComputerTech | 2.6.32-042stab138.1 |
| 12:59.35 | unborn | that's for kelner but shoot |
| 12:59.36 | ComputerTech | got that back out of that |
| 12:59.37 | ComputerTech | ok |
| 12:59.46 | unborn | uh |
| 12:59.56 | n4dir | etch? |
| 13:00.06 | unborn | I am running debian 9 on my laptop and my results are this: |
| 13:00.17 | unborn | Client: HexChat 2.12.4 ⢠OS: Debian 9.13 ⢠CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2760QM CPU @ 2.40GHz (3.18GHz) ⢠Memory: Physical: 11.3 GiB Total (8.4 GiB Free) Swap: 11.9 GiB Total (11.9 GiB Free) ⢠Storage: 449.9 GB / 1.4 TB (981.0 GB Free) ⢠VGA: Intel Corporation 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics Controller @ Intel Corporation 2nd Generation Core Processor Family DRAM Controller ⢠Uptime |
| 13:00.17 | unborn | : 2w 1d 4h 13m 58s |
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| 13:01.04 | n4dir | anyway, "cat /etc/debian_version" ComputerTech |
| 13:01.07 | unborn | that is 4.9.0-14-amd64 = considered outdated meh on my servers I run debian 10 which is much higher |
| 13:01.27 | ComputerTech | ok used n4dir's command, got 8.11 |
| 13:01.39 | unborn | ComputerTech: please update. |
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| 13:01.55 | jelly | ComputerTech, that shows your machine is most likely an OpenVZ or Virtuozzo container VPS. You don't have control of your kernel, and you probably don't have control of the hardware clock, so ntp can't work |
| 13:01.56 | ComputerTech | erm, don't know if my friend will tbh |
| 13:02.03 | ComputerTech | oh |
| 13:02.24 | jelly | and you probably can't upgrade the OS because newer libc6 will require kernel 3.2 + |
| 13:02.44 | ComputerTech | he has updated the OS in the past |
| 13:02.56 | ComputerTech | but not sure if he wants to, because he wants to keep his uptime |
| 13:02.58 | jelly | ComputerTech, ask the hosting provider, your friend, to the fix host clock |
| 13:03.03 | ComputerTech | we did |
| 13:03.13 | ComputerTech | https://dpaste.com/7VN9ZTLR4 << that was their response |
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| 13:03.33 | unborn | jelly they wont do.. they told him to do it by himself |
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| 13:03.53 | ComputerTech | mhm |
| 13:04.00 | ComputerTech | possibly bad hoster perhaps |
| 13:04.01 | ComputerTech | ¯\_(ã)_/¯ |
| 13:04.16 | ComputerTech | my vps hoster OVH did it right away, but not sure what his is though |
| 13:04.34 | jelly | ComputerTech, where's your ntp output? |
| 13:04.41 | ComputerTech | my ovh server? |
| 13:05.05 | jelly | ComputerTech, the machine we're talking about |
| 13:05.10 | ComputerTech | ok |
| 13:05.32 | ComputerTech | i don't currently have root, which path should i be in to be able to find them? |
| 13:05.36 | unborn | ovh used to be good.. I do not pay hosting since 2007.. sorry, I host everything on bare metal from home, makes it all easy. |
| 13:06.03 | jelly | ComputerTech, where did you find there was an offset the first time? |
| 13:06.11 | ComputerTech | my friend used root to find out |
| 13:06.15 | ComputerTech | but he's away currently |
| 13:06.24 | *** join/#debian aps_ (~aps@2a02:908:df56:f8c0::ee52) |
| 13:06.29 | unborn | admin of the server |
| 13:06.48 | jelly | ComputerTech, can you run "ntpq -p" ? |
| 13:07.02 | ComputerTech | ntpq: read: Connection refused |
| 13:07.43 | jelly | ComputerTech, is there a ntpd in the process list at all? |
| 13:08.19 | ComputerTech | well when my friend checked ntp output last night via root |
| 13:08.21 | ComputerTech | it showed |
| 13:08.40 | jelly | do you have the command and the output they ran then? |
| 13:09.05 | ComputerTech | yep sec |
| 13:09.13 | ComputerTech | ntpdate -qu pool.ntp.org |
| 13:09.16 | ComputerTech | is the one he used |
| 13:09.25 | ComputerTech | i get -bash: ntpdate: command not found |
| 13:09.27 | ComputerTech | when i try it |
| 13:09.39 | ComputerTech | possibly lack of privileges |
| 13:09.39 | jelly | judd, file bin/ntpdate |
| 13:09.44 | judd | Search for bin/ntpdate in buster/amd64: ntpdate: usr/sbin/ntpdate; ntpsec-ntpdate: usr/sbin/ntpdate |
| 13:09.58 | jelly | ComputerTech, /usr/sbin/ntpdate |
| 13:10.17 | unborn | oh I see now |
| 13:10.22 | ComputerTech | ok |
| 13:10.24 | ComputerTech | let me try that |
| 13:11.03 | ComputerTech | -bash: ntpdate: command not found |
| 13:11.03 | ComputerTech | same |
| 13:11.45 | jelly | ComputerTech, did you run "/usr/sbin/ntpdate -qu pool.ntp.org" or something else |
| 13:12.07 | unborn | without quotation marks |
| 13:12.09 | ComputerTech | oh i cd'd into that path |
| 13:12.14 | ComputerTech | let me try that again |
| 13:12.14 | ComputerTech | sorry |
| 13:12.31 | jelly | that doesn't work on linux, the current directory is not in PATH |
| 13:12.45 | jelly | (not by default, and it's not a good idea to put it there either) |
| 13:13.20 | ComputerTech | ok that worked |
| 13:13.20 | ComputerTech | sec |
| 13:13.23 | unborn | ComputerTech: just run command as root anywhere you are on server /usr/sbin/ntpdate -qu pool.ntp.org |
| 13:13.23 | ComputerTech | let me pastebin |
| 13:13.25 | jelly | !paste |
| 13:13.25 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: https://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: https://imgbb.com/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): https://filebin.net or https://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>. |
| 13:13.28 | unborn | it should work |
| 13:13.36 | jelly | unborn, I didn't say to run it as root |
| 13:13.50 | ComputerTech | https://dpaste.com/7QH5XLXL3 |
| 13:13.56 | ComputerTech | lol the offset has gotten worse xD |
| 13:13.59 | ComputerTech | was 88 last night |
| 13:14.01 | unborn | jelly: I know I am assuming he is log in as root |
| 13:14.01 | ComputerTech | now 90 :/ |
| 13:14.12 | ComputerTech | unborn, i don't have root |
| 13:14.18 | unborn | oh |
| 13:14.35 | ComputerTech | yeah :/ |
| 13:14.45 | ComputerTech | but jelly found a way for me to find out via non root :D |
| 13:14.49 | ksk | ComputerTech: you need to be root user to modify the system (eg. change the date) |
| 13:15.04 | ComputerTech | true yeah, but if i can find out how |
| 13:15.06 | ksk | safe for jelly magic I guess :D |
| 13:15.10 | ComputerTech | i can at least tell my friend |
| 13:15.16 | ComputerTech | so he can change in his own time |
| 13:15.16 | jelly | ComputerTech, that will need to be fixed on the host, I fear |
| 13:15.22 | ComputerTech | :/ |
| 13:15.34 | jelly | I don't think OpenVZ containers can have separate clocks |
| 13:15.36 | ComputerTech | and they already said that the offset is normal, sigh |
| 13:15.39 | ksk | ComputerTech: ah its a container |
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| 13:15.44 | jelly | ComputerTech, show them that output. |
| 13:15.55 | daysun | shows jelly that output |
| 13:15.56 | ksk | then contact your hosting provider, they need to fix it (jelly is right, openVZ does utilize the hosts clock) |
| 13:15.57 | jelly | and the full command you used |
| 13:16.02 | ComputerTech | ok |
| 13:16.12 | ComputerTech | https://dpaste.com/7QH5XLXL3 << that would be sufficient? |
| 13:16.26 | jelly | yeah |
| 13:16.34 | unborn | yes |
| 13:16.37 | ComputerTech | cool, just told my friend to tell them that |
| 13:16.40 | ratrace | someone still using openvz in 2021? WOW. |
| 13:16.45 | ComputerTech | i think he might be online soon, we'll see |
| 13:16.49 | jelly | daysun, are you a bot? |
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| 13:17.17 | unborn | I did not know you can change those things on server as non su... perhaps I should sometimes log in as non su too :) sorry folks |
| 13:17.42 | ComputerTech | all good unborn, i usually poke around via root as well :) |
| 13:17.54 | jelly | unborn, you can't change clock, but you can check it |
| 13:17.58 | ComputerTech | i'm actually grateful that we have some nice helpful folks in here, hehe :) |
| 13:18.16 | unborn | jelly I nod this. thanks |
| 13:18.28 | jelly | and it's a question whether you can set it at all even as root, within that VPS |
| 13:18.39 | jelly | suspects not |
| 13:18.53 | unborn | don't think so too |
| 13:18.56 | daysun | jelly: are YOU a bot? |
| 13:19.14 | jelly | daysun, no, but I am an op, so behave |
| 13:19.20 | daysun | :( |
| 13:19.23 | ComputerTech | jelly, well my ovh vps, had incorrect offset |
| 13:19.24 | ratrace | keep in mind OpenVZ is early containerization, not a hypervisor. so many things are impossible with openvz |
| 13:19.28 | ComputerTech | and when i used ntp it fixed the offset |
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| 13:19.39 | daysun | jelly: all I did was to show you that output |
| 13:19.40 | jelly | ComputerTech, it might have SAID it fixed it |
| 13:19.46 | ComputerTech | mmm true |
| 13:20.02 | ComputerTech | well the offset was around 0.500 or something low |
| 13:20.04 | jelly | daysun, that wasn't addressing you, it was for computer Tech |
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| 13:22.56 | unborn | ComputerTech: even your problem is solved I would still stress you to update if that is possible for you / your friend ;) |
| 13:23.20 | ComputerTech | yeah he just responded |
| 13:23.26 | ComputerTech | and said he thought he was updated to 10 |
| 13:23.27 | ComputerTech | ¯\_(ã)_/¯ heh |
| 13:23.45 | daysun | jelly: I think we both know that ;) |
| 13:23.57 | daysun | chews gum |
| 13:25.48 | unborn | ComputerTech: from 8 you should update to 9 and then to 10 smallish a lengthily process but its worth, I think he would know also make backups before process - and make sure you test those backups - for sake you know you have working backups ;) |
| 13:26.28 | ComputerTech | yeah, good idea unborn :) |
| 13:28.05 | unborn | ComputerTech: since 8 and 10 few things changed - like apache configs etc.. just friendly advice to be prepared if things go wrong, but I think you already understand me ;) |
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| 13:37.03 | jelly | ComputerTech, debian 10 can't work on that kernel, the host will have to be updated first |
| 13:37.16 | jelly | I'm not sure whether debian 9 can work |
| 13:38.51 | ComputerTech | ok |
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| 13:40.15 | jelly | it _might_ work. Debian 10 libc6 requires kernel 3.2 at least, https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#glibc-and-linux |
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| 14:05.14 | P-NuT | Hi all. Any rough dates yet for debian 11 release? |
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| 14:20.24 | ksk | !bullseye freeze |
| 14:20.24 | dpkg | The first steps of the <freeze> to release Debian 11 "Bullseye" will start on January 12, 2021. https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2020/11/msg00002.html |
| 14:20.31 | ksk | P-NuT: ^ |
| 14:21.17 | ksk | !buster freeze |
| 14:21.17 | dpkg | Buster started the freeze process on 2019-01-12 see https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2018/04/msg00006.html or ask me about <freeze>, <slushy>. |
| 14:21.45 | ksk | Buster was released on 2019-07-06 - so roughly halve a year maybe? ;) |
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| 14:25.19 | P-NuT | Brilliant, thanks |
| 14:26.28 | ksk | !next |
| 14:26.28 | dpkg | Another happy customer leaves the building. |
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| 14:46.37 | MichaelOF | hi all. trying to create a vpn l2tp CLIENT connection on raspbian, follwing this generic guide: https://github.com/hwdsl2/setup-ipsec-vpn/blob/master/docs/clients.md#configure-linux-vpn-clients-using-the-command-line. after step "start L2TP connection", "ipsec status" says established, but I don't have ppp0 interface shown by ifconfig. any hints what I'm making wrong? |
| 14:47.11 | Mister00X | !raspbian |
| 14:47.11 | dpkg | Raspberry Pi OS (previously called Raspbian) is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian (or #raspberrypi) on irc.freenode.net for support. https://www.raspbian.org/ |
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| 14:48.13 | raver | Does it come from |
| 14:48.21 | raver | !armbian |
| 14:48.21 | dpkg | Armbian is a project that has pre-compiled custom Debian and Ubuntu installer images for <ARM> boards, and a small package repository with kernels, drivers, and utilities. It is not a complete distribution, and uses unmodified Debian or Ubuntu official package repos. kernel/hw/installer/building questions: #armbian on chat.freenode.net |
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| 14:48.48 | raver | ? |
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| 14:58.30 | ksk | Mister00X: we do _not_ support raspbian in here. On a side-note: Take a look at more modern VPN applications (like OpenVPN, wireguard) |
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| 14:59.07 | ksk | oh, eh, both nicks starting with "M", sorry :> |
| 14:59.29 | ksk | MichaelOF: for you instead :P |
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| 15:03.36 | MichaelOF | ksk: AFAI understood I've no choice to use openVPN, as I want to connect to an existing VPN server as a client. Server is whatever windows based software, protocol ipsec/l2tp |
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| 15:09.50 | ksk | RIP. |
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| 15:13.19 | jelly | raver, it doesn't; raspbian is a much older effort that came to life because the first r.pi was merely almost, but not completely, compatible with debian armhf architecture |
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| 15:14.51 | t0th_- | hi, i am trying to run a command in debian, but i have this error: "cannot execute binary file: Exec format error". Anyone can help me? |
| 15:15.25 | jelly | t0th_-, what's the actual command, how exactly did you acquire it, and what does "file /path/to/command" say |
| 15:15.27 | t0th_- | with file the command is: danger-kotlin: 64-bit x86_64 executable, flags:<NOUNDEFS|DYLDLINK|TWOLEVEL|BINDS_TO_WEAK|PIE|HAS_TLV_DESCRIPTORS> |
| 15:15.34 | wigums | wrong architecture? |
| 15:16.09 | t0th_- | my arch: Architecture: x86_64 |
| 15:16.09 | t0th_- | CPU op-mode(s): 32-bit, 64-bit using lscpu |
| 15:16.32 | jelly | t0th_-, what does "dpkg --print-architecture" say, and which debian release is this? |
| 15:17.30 | jelly | that doesn't look like a glibc ELF binary. |
| 15:17.52 | jelly | or your "file" command isn't the usual file command |
| 15:18.19 | t0th_- | amd64 and Debian GNU/Linux 10 \n \l |
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| 15:19.14 | azeem | t0th_-: what kernel version? |
| 15:19.42 | jelly | t0th_-, and how exactly did you acquire this executable |
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| 15:20.17 | t0th_- | @jelly https://github.com/danger/kotlin here |
| 15:20.18 | jelly | if it's publically available someplace, perhaps we can take a better look |
| 15:20.52 | jelly | t0th_-, that's source code, do I have to build it? |
| 15:20.57 | t0th_- | no |
| 15:21.16 | t0th_- | #bash <(curl -s https://raw.githubusercontent.com/danger/kotlin/master/scripts/install.sh) |
| 15:21.17 | t0th_- | source ~/.bash_profile |
| 15:21.53 | ksk | wich will then only install node.js on your system - I like ;) |
| 15:22.04 | t0th_- | yes, i installed it before |
| 15:22.05 | t0th_- | this is ok |
| 15:22.10 | jelly | that's a "yes" actually |
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| 15:23.05 | jelly | and the script grabs binaries of kotlin compiler and gradle from somewhere, sorry, I don't have a throwaway VM to run this in |
| 15:23.27 | jelly | git clone [...] cd _danger-kotlin && make install |
| 15:23.27 | t0th_- | ok, thank you |
| 15:23.39 | t0th_- | yes, i will try |
| 15:23.43 | jelly | that's building it... |
| 15:23.50 | jelly | it's what install.sh does |
| 15:24.36 | jelly | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:24.40 | jelly | good gried |
| 15:24.46 | jelly | grief* |
| 15:25.11 | jelly | that script is horrible from a security standpoint :-( |
| 15:25.32 | ratrace | lol what script did that? |
| 15:25.38 | ksk | but hey, the repo is called "danger", no? ;) |
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| 15:25.48 | ratrace | oh kotlin? |
| 15:25.59 | jelly | that one danger/kotlin asks you to run |
| 15:26.10 | jelly | danger indeed |
| 15:26.34 | t0th_- | lol |
| 15:26.53 | jelly | expects the user be able to write to /opt as well |
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| 15:29.02 | jelly | grabs random kotlin version and puts it into /usr/local, then grabs random gradle, and puts it into /opt, I suspect because the author has a Mac and loves to watch the world burn |
| 15:29.22 | jelly | needs more coffee to deal with this |
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| 15:31.02 | t0th_- | hey |
| 15:31.14 | t0th_- | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:31.18 | t0th_- | need to install |
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| 15:36.20 | ratrace | and so the penguing god invented containers. |
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| 15:56.07 | raver | jelly: thx |
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| 18:04.11 | Azrael_- | hi |
| 18:04.49 | petn-randall | hi Azrael_- |
| 18:05.01 | Azrael_- | until now i'm still using munin for collection server statistics from multiple servers and display some nice graphs. are there nowadays other systems which are better/more preffered? |
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| 18:05.39 | ratrace | I still use Munin |
| 18:06.27 | Azrael_- | i just realized that there are some changes within munin over the time. my squeeze collector had problems with a buster plugin :D |
| 18:06.54 | ratrace | yeah, things are adapting to new APIs, especially in the kernel |
| 18:07.22 | Azrael_- | here it was munin-graph not being able to parse COLOUR0 |
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| 18:39.54 | zutat | are there any special swap considerations, when the system should support suspending to disk? |
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| 18:42.27 | wigums | zutat yes use twice the amount of ram you have as swap |
| 18:42.43 | zutat | wigums: thanks! |
| 18:42.49 | wigums | yep |
| 18:42.52 | sney | zutat: it should be larger than the physical memory, but double isn't required anymore in 2020 |
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| 18:43.27 | sney | that's an old habit from when systems commonly had like 64MB |
| 18:46.40 | EdePopede | i have 2GB and i'm happy about the 5GB swap i have, using a modern browser can really need it. usually it's used around 50%. |
| 18:46.42 | zutat | so, suspending is still done to swap, which means i'll need a swap whose size is physical memory + potentially used swap? |
| 18:47.01 | sney | you got it |
| 18:47.11 | zutat | thanks |
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| 18:59.58 | machine_1490 | Hi, I've been trying to find the checksums for the .iso behind the "download" button on debian.org, but can't seem to find them. Could someone point me in the right direction? Thanks. |
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| 19:00.29 | sney | should be https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/10.7.0/amd64/iso-cd/ |
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| 19:00.55 | greycat | !verify iso |
| 19:00.55 | dpkg | To verify you have a valid and official Debian CD/DVD image, see http://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#verify . To test an ISO image was burned correctly, compare the output of «md5sum filename.iso; dd if=/dev/cdrom | head -c `stat --format=%s filename.iso` | md5sum». You should compare this md5sum to the checksum for the ISO image on the mirror. See also <check iso signature>. |
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| 19:02.58 | machine_1490 | Thanks sney and greycat. Would you have any tips on navigation? I really did look around, but couldn't find the sums. How do you effectively find that information? I searched sha256sum in the search bar and so on.. |
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| 19:03.40 | greycat | !check iso signature |
| 19:03.40 | dpkg | On a Debian box, you can check the installer images are legitimate using the signature file that comes with them. When downloading the ISO, also get the SHA256SUMS and SHA256SUMS.sign files in the same directory, then: "apt-get install -t sid debian-keyring; sha256sum -c SHA256SUMS; gpg --keyring /usr/share/keyrings/debian-role-keys.gpg --verify SHA256SUMS.sign". See also <check iso image>. |
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| 19:04.03 | sney | machine_1490: debian.org/CD links to files on cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd, and from there it's just index navigation |
| 19:04.18 | machine_1490 | I landed on the front page... went to 'more > downloads... and then got lost. |
| 19:04.28 | machine_1490 | sney Okay, I didn't know of that site. Thanks! |
| 19:04.33 | sney | np |
| 19:04.56 | machine_1490 | The checksum worked. Thanks |
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| 19:09.37 | sstory | I am trying to install 10.7 to a 19GB VirtualBox disk, guided with LVM. I see the following: https://ibb.co/fk78ynC What is partition #1 and why is it ext2 instead of 4? I am used to CentOS so just trying to learn the ropes a bit. |
| 19:10.25 | sstory | Does it put the entire LVM in an ext2? |
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| 19:11.27 | sstory | What I meant to say is does it format the partition as ext2 and then use that for LVM, which has an ext4 partition itself. I have always just used ext4 so looked a little strange to me. |
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| 19:12.27 | sney | it's probably /boot |
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| 19:13.19 | sstory | Is there a reason why it would choose ext2 instead of 4 for boot? Perhaps I should have chosen a different installation option from Graphical install to get more choices? |
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| 19:14.42 | sney | I haven't done a lvm install in a while so I can't remember what all of the dialogs suggest on this route, I would guess that the extra ext4 features aren't justified on a small partition that only holds kernel and initrd |
| 19:15.25 | sstory | sney: OK. Thanks for the tip. Do you usually do the Advanced Expert install? |
| 19:17.03 | sney | no, just the regular one. I don't have to do it very often on bare metal is all |
| 19:17.23 | jmcnaught | Normal text mode and graphical mode both ask the same questions. Expert install just asks more questions about stuff that can be done post-install. |
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| 19:17.54 | sstory | OK. Thanks! |
| 19:17.55 | sney | and lets you skip/circumvent some installation steps, iirc, though it's been years |
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| 19:26.56 | iterati | Anyone is using sway on sid/testing ? The polkit authentication agents segfault. I have tried the gnome & mate ones, both crash. |
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| 19:28.04 | sney | iterati: look at the topic, you will see that testing/unstable support is in #debian-next on oftc (note, right now you are on freenode). |
| 19:30.08 | iterati | sney: sure, thanks. Anyone experienced similar issues with the polkit agents, regardless of anything else. Maybe is some setting I need to set or such. |
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| 19:38.16 | rander2 | hello |
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| 19:40.44 | rander2 | http://paste.debian.net/1180241/ |
| 19:41.11 | rander2 | gpu is radeon 7870 |
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| 19:43.30 | towo` | rander2, use opencl from amdgpu-pro packages |
| 19:45.13 | sponix2ipfw | !sns |
| 19:45.13 | dpkg | Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>. |
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| 19:52.15 | rander2 | towo`, Unable to locate package amdgpu-pro |
| 19:52.30 | sney | it's not in debian, #845589 |
| 19:52.32 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/845589 in wnpp (open): «RFP: amdgpu-pro -- proprietary AMD graphics drivers»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2016-11-24; last modified: 2016-11-24. |
| 19:52.39 | sney | you'll need to download it from amd's website |
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| 19:54.57 | rander2 | I need opencl, not proprietary drivers |
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| 19:57.42 | sney | towo` is usually right about these things, if he says the opencl components are available in amdgpu-pro I'm inclined to believe it. |
| 19:58.11 | sney | I found this too, but dunno if it's enough or if you'll end up at amdgpu-pro again following these instructions https://github.com/RadeonOpenCompute/ROCm |
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| 20:01.12 | dokma | Is there a way to strace an executable invoked by DBus? |
| 20:02.06 | dokma | Specifically dunst. I have a feeling it's not reading my config file. |
| 20:02.21 | dokma | Standard dunst from the repo. |
| 20:02.23 | phogg | dokma: strace -p $pid, but I assume what you really want is to follow the message that triggers the launch automatically |
| 20:02.41 | dokma | phogg: not gonna work. It runs for a fraction of a second |
| 20:02.48 | greycat | trace dbus itself, with the -f option... and don't let it launch anything else |
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| 20:03.01 | dokma | greycat: that should work |
| 20:03.15 | dokma | greycat: can't really prevent it launching anything else |
| 20:03.43 | greycat | well, don't do whatever it is that you do to make it launch the other things... just do the thing that makes it launch dunst, whatever taht is |
| 20:04.24 | dokma | greycat: that I can do |
| 20:05.11 | dokma | hmmm which of many dbus processes to trace? |
| 20:05.40 | greycat | there can't be *that* many, surely |
| 20:05.46 | dokma | 3-4 |
| 20:05.57 | dokma | I'll trace them sequentially till it hits |
| 20:06.12 | greycat | I only have 2 running as me, and one running as "message+" according to ps |
| 20:07.30 | jhutchins | dokma: You could invoke it manually. |
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| 20:08.27 | dokma | jhutchins: dunst? Isn't that some complex DBus messaging? |
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| 20:11.30 | rander2 | i changed video card, from nvdia gt610 to radeon 7870 |
| 20:11.51 | rander2 | but hashcat don't go |
| 20:12.21 | rander2 | clGetPlatformIDs(): CL_PLATFORM_NOT_FOUND_KHR |
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| 20:20.25 | greycat | google sez: |
| 20:20.25 | greycat | hashcat - advanced password recovery |
| 20:20.39 | greycat | So, um, yeah.... *plonk* |
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| 20:26.40 | rander2 | greycat, yes, I changed video card, I uninstalled previous nvidia drivers, but it use the cpu instead gpu |
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| 20:30.18 | rander2 | http://paste.debian.net/1180251/ |
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| 20:31.04 | rander2 | I uninstalled all previous drivers with : apt-get remove --purge '^nvidia-.*' |
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| 20:32.03 | rander2 | but it use cpu instead the gpu, the gpu is about 20times more fast, this gpu |
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| 20:33.26 | unixbsd | how to play a audio cdrom cddda ISO file (the iso is audio/data mix image)? |
| 20:34.18 | ratrace | unixbsd: tried an uh.... media player thingy? |
| 20:34.19 | koolkat332 | you need to be kool about it |
| 20:34.51 | koolkat332 | you could always code one |
| 20:34.54 | koolkat332 | if you don't have |
| 20:35.37 | koolkat332 | https://videoconverter.wondershare.com/vlc/play-iso-with-vlc-player.html |
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| 20:36.13 | jhutchins | unixbsd: I just double-click it in Thunar, haven't messed with the background in a decade. |
| 20:36.19 | koolkat332 | if I were you I would just snippity snap made your own code to do it in C |
| 20:36.22 | koolkat332 | or c++ |
| 20:36.23 | unixbsd | maybe mplayer can play a cdda iso file... for audio only ,..: |
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| 20:36.29 | koolkat332 | and then after you could sell like a media suite |
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| 20:36.40 | koolkat332 | that's kool |
| 20:37.05 | jhutchins | unixbsd: Mostly I listen to streams like Pandora these days. Pulled up some local stuff the other day, ended up listening to Cowboy Junkies for two hours. (That's a bit much.) |
| 20:37.14 | unixbsd | what is pandora? |
| 20:37.52 | greycat | If it's CD-DA, then it is by definition not ISO 9660. One's raw audio data, and the other is a file system. |
| 20:37.54 | jhutchins | unixbsd: I think it was mpv that was playing it. Not much of an interface, but it plays. |
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| 20:38.26 | jhutchins | unixbsd: https://pandora.com |
| 20:38.34 | zykotick9 | jhutchins: careful, mpv's interface is close to perfection ;) |
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| 20:39.12 | jhutchins | unixbsd: You can set suggestions and build a "channel". I have an ambient synth channel, my wife has spagetti western soundtracks. |
| 20:39.52 | jhutchins | zykotick9: Zero is complete perfection. |
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| 20:40.15 | jhutchins | KDe 3.5 had a great music manager, when that went away I pretty much stopped bothering with local music. |
| 20:41.24 | jhutchins | (Well, except for the six guitars. ... and the bass. ... and the banjo and the mandolyn. I don't really mess with the autoharp, it's probably due to be tuned.) |
| 20:41.53 | jhutchins | Both keyboards died a while back. |
| 20:42.27 | unixbsd | mplayer -dvd-device CD1.iso cdda:// didnt work. |
| 20:43.16 | jhutchins | unixbsd: That syntax doesn't look right. Does your audio work to begin with? |
| 20:44.03 | jhutchins | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yttvb9ByOtY&feature=emb_logo |
| 20:44.04 | zykotick9 | unixbsd: <i'm just curious> if you "file CD1.iso" what sort of file is it? As g-reycat pointed out, it can't be an ISO. |
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| 20:45.03 | jhutchins | zykotick9: Like I said, it's been a while. Do you mount the iso and then access the music? |
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| 20:45.44 | zykotick9 | jhutchins: you can mount an iso, you can't mount an audio CD. So what this file actually "is" is still to be determined. |
| 20:45.54 | unixbsd | command and conqueeer 1995 on abandonware is cdrom iso, music and data |
| 20:46.13 | zykotick9 | ahh, some mixed media thing... |
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| 20:46.51 | zykotick9 | not the "track(s)" you are providing to your audio players will probably matter! |
| 20:47.00 | zykotick9 | s/not the/note the/ |
| 20:48.01 | EdePopede | iirc the earliest ones had the data track at the start which confused some (car?) players. so they moved it to the end. other standard also afaik. |
| 20:50.15 | greycat | Yeah, I've seen some CDs with audio tracks at the start, and a data area at the end. |
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| 20:50.52 | greycat | I'm not sure how one would go about copying one of those beasts, but it almost certainly wouldn't be by creating a single file with a ".iso" extension. |
| 20:51.26 | zykotick9 | are you sure this ISO still has the audio tracks? A regular ISO would have copied the data, and left the audio behind (I suspect). What did "file" actually say? |
| 20:51.46 | greycat | also how large is the file? |
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| 20:53.31 | unixbsd | mronsse at ugent did make the filesystem "cdfs" for that. it seems not available in the repository. |
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| 20:55.55 | greycat | kind of a niche thing these days |
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| 20:59.13 | unixbsd | it is a very difficult question, there are not solution on debian/ubuntu boards. I have asked the #mplayer team. let's see what they give as solution. |
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| 21:06.53 | jhutchins | http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/CD_Image_Conversion |
| 21:06.54 | jhutchins | http://www.cdrfaq.org/ |
| 21:06.56 | jhutchins | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_Books |
| 21:08.14 | jhutchins | Not linux specific, but pretty much covers everything there is to know. |
| 21:09.29 | zykotick9 | to "properly" backup media of this nature, you'd need to use another format than ISO. toc/cue would be more common in *nix world (bin/cue in MS world), but there are MANY competing formats on MS for this sorta stuff, but it ain't ISO. |
| 21:10.15 | jhutchins | I believe dd will preserve the format. You can call the output file anything you want. |
| 21:10.24 | zykotick9 | dd could do it! |
| 21:11.06 | jhutchins | I'm not sure about writing it to new media. |
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| 21:11.35 | zykotick9 | good point. |
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| 21:12.03 | greycat | dd will not copy CD audio |
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| 21:13.17 | zykotick9 | hummm. I'm wrong then. |
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| 21:15.07 | greycat | The cdrecord(1) man page (the real one, not wodim in disguise) suggests that to copy an audio CD, one should use cdda2wav + cdrecord. I've done this before, and it creates several files, at least one per audio track. |
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| 21:16.02 | greycat | I'm sure there are other tools that can do it. |
| 21:16.27 | zykotick9 | ya dd gives i/o error immediately |
| 21:16.59 | zykotick9 | just uses abcde to dump audio cd's to flac |
| 21:17.13 | jhutchins | Man, I used to rip audio CDs all the time, but when they killed amarok I pretty much stopped messing with local stuff. |
| 21:17.39 | rander2 | how change runlevel in deb10 ? to start in text mode |
| 21:17.44 | rander2 | !runlevel |
| 21:17.44 | dpkg | 0 is halt, 1 is single user, 2, 3, 4, 5 are multiuser, 6 is reboot. By default 2, 3, 4 and 5 are identical (there are no graphic/non-graphic runlevels), but you can configure this if you wish. Read /usr/share/doc/sysvinit/*; read /etc/init.d/README; man update-rc.d; if that doesn't make sense, consider installing <rcconf> instead. See also http://debian-administration.org/articles/212, <startup>, <file-rc>, <single-user mode>. |
| 21:18.13 | jhutchins | Runlevels are obsolete/deprecated. Boot to multiuser.target |
| 21:18.31 | rander2 | jhutchins, how ? |
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| 21:18.45 | jhutchins | rander2: From the grub menu. |
| 21:18.56 | jhutchins | rander2: e to edit |
| 21:19.02 | rander2 | I must edit grun menu ? |
| 21:19.05 | jhutchins | !multiuser |
| 21:19.14 | jhutchins | !multiuser.target |
| 21:19.24 | rander2 | !multiuser |
| 21:19.34 | jhutchins | Hm, we ought to have a factoid somewhere. |
| 21:19.35 | rander2 | nothing to do |
| 21:20.08 | jhutchins | rander2: Using e from the grub menu makes temporary changes for that boot session. |
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| 21:20.49 | greycat | !nodm |
| 21:20.49 | dpkg | In systemd, "systemctl set-default multi-user.target", or remove the DM package(s) with "aptitude remove gdm3 kdm lightdm lxdm nodm sddm slim wdm xdm". "echo false >/etc/X11/default-display-manager" will also disable the DM, or just hit ctrl-alt-fN to get to a console. nodm is the name of a minimal/automatic display manager (https://github.com/spanezz/nodm). |
| 21:21.13 | greycat | !multi-user.target |
| 21:21.13 | dpkg | Under systemd, graphical.target runs a <dm> and multi-user.target doesn't. You can add «systemd.unit=multi-user.target» to the kernel params to skip the DM once, or run «systemctl set-default multi-user.target» to change permanently. See also <nodm>. |
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| 21:21.43 | jhutchins | Thank you greycat |
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| 21:37.51 | zykotick9 | unixbsd: DOSBox has a good "howto" for creating cue/bin for mix-mode CDs at https://www.dosbox.com/wiki/Cuesheet The opening paragraph ends with "The prevalent ISO format can only store data tracks." |
| 21:41.04 | unixbsd | thank you |
| 21:41.46 | unixbsd | I have found also : mplayer -cdrom-device CD1.iso cdda:// but this didnt work. I am looking forward the inputs from official mplayer |
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| 21:42.21 | rander2 | http://paste.debian.net/1180263/ |
| 21:42.27 | zykotick9 | unixbsd: if that is an ISO, there is no audio for mplayer to play. it will NEVER work. |
| 21:43.06 | greycat | At this point, having been asked REPEATEDLY to use file(1) to identify what's in this file, and having not done so, I'm convinced he's never going to do so, and he's just trolling us. |
| 21:43.32 | greycat | You can only repeat yourself so many times and not be heard before you just give up. |
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| 21:51.18 | zykotick9 | rander2: I don't have any AMD graphics but isn't the driver available from debian repos? I'm 99% sure amd-driver-installer-15.302-x86.x86_64.run is a poor choice! |
| 21:51.46 | greycat | rander2 isn't trying to use graphics. He's trying to run a password cracker that uses GPU crap. |
| 21:51.56 | sney | amd-driver-installer *15* is from five years ago and unlikely to be compatible with any current debian |
| 21:52.17 | zykotick9 | oh shit. sorry, forgot about that whole situation. sorry for the noise. |
| 21:52.48 | sney | anyway, if rander2 can't be bothered to ask a question, I don't see any point in engaging with a paste |
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| 21:53.12 | ratrace | I love when people just barge in and post a link and expect us all to start supporting.... |
| 21:53.19 | ratrace | sney: right. |
| 21:53.26 | rander2 | I found it from offical site for radeon 7870 |
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| 21:55.50 | jhutchins | rander2: If you're going to install from the AMD site, you have to 1) Completely clear out any model-specific drivers installed by Debian, 2) follow the instructions on the site EXACTLY. |
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| 21:56.34 | greycat | wouldn't blacklisting the Debian drivers suffice? |
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| 22:13.18 | jhutchins | greycat: There's a kernel module that needs to be disabled as well. I found clearing everything from trying to work with the Debian versions was what got it working for me. (My card was too new for anything in Debian to work.) |
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| 22:17.19 | pierreImbaud | #parinux |
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| 22:31.28 | jhutchins | (Card's a 1050, no longer the newwest. Also PCI, not one of the newer interfaces.) |
| 22:32.50 | zykotick9 | jhutchins: wow, like old-school install a modem PCI? |
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| 22:34.35 | zykotick9 | nahhh, that 1050 got pcie or somethin' |
| 22:34.40 | sney | the management nic on my home server is pci, it's not *that* decrepit |
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| 22:35.16 | dvs | thinks it's VL-Bus |
| 22:36.04 | zykotick9 | it's been a LONG time since I used a PCI graphics card, some crappy ATI thing. Back when Xorg config was a MUCH bigger deal then today, especially for multi-monitor setups with my APG graphics main card ;) |
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| 22:39.23 | zykotick9 | s/APG/AGP/ <- dyslexia kickin' in |
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| 22:43.23 | zykotick9 | Dyslexics of the World Untie!! |
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| 22:44.36 | alex11 | zykotick9, dyslexic procrastinators of the world untie... tomorrow |
| 22:45.02 | jhutchins | I think the kernel module is "ra", and the Debian version was too old at the time. |
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| 22:48.30 | jhutchins | zykotick9: That was how I ended up with a high-end card on what's basically a text workstation. It was the only one that was the right format. Might've been pcie. Can I tell from the console? |
| 22:49.16 | zykotick9 | jhutchins: oh it is. i googled the card, it's not old-school-modem PCI that's for sure ;) |
| 22:49.37 | jhutchins | Yeah, pcie GeForce GTX 1050 Ti |
| 22:49.54 | jhutchins | zykotick9: Lots of stuff was PCI, not just modems. |
| 22:50.22 | zykotick9 | jhutchins: not much stuff anymore ;) seed a modern moderboard? |
| 22:51.11 | jhutchins | This system has a Sound Blaster, which I think is PCI. |
| 22:51.15 | zykotick9 | i had soundcards and modems and graphics cards... all PCI. but that was 20-30 years ago me thinks. |
| 22:51.47 | jhutchins | Pretty old MB. Core2. |
| 22:52.08 | jhutchins | has been at this a while and is cheap about upgrades. |
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| 22:52.11 | zykotick9 | that might do it. |
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| 22:52.37 | zykotick9 | the Core2, not "cheap about upgrades"... |
| 22:52.49 | jhutchins | Part of it was that when you have eight to ten systems in the house, they all want upgrades. |
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| 22:57.48 | zykotick9 | jhutchins: i'd guess that 1050ti is a pretty smokin' card (it certainly is compared to what I have which is a GTX760 $60 2ndhand). I've never cared about graphics cards until I got this KVM-libvirt graphics passthrough working. |
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| 23:00.36 | sney | my plex vm has pci passthrough and does all of its video encoding on a gtx 650, which isn't new at all by a long shot. the 1050 is almost certainly way more powerful |
| 23:01.03 | zykotick9 | MUCH more powerful ;) |
| 23:02.02 | jhutchins | Yeah, my nephew was blown away when I told him that's what I got. |
| 23:02.59 | zykotick9 | sney: pci passthrough for video encoding <- that's cool. |
| 23:03.05 | jhutchins | So it's new enough that it can handle PlaneShift, but I had learned PS pretty well before they upgraded past my old card, and I found I had no interest in re-learning all of it. |
| 23:04.13 | sney | yup, hardware encoding for the win. now the only weak point in my home theatre is the horrible little zotac pc that actually talks to the display |
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| 23:07.39 | karlpinc | sney: I got a chromebox to connect to the TV and don't have to think about it. |
| 23:08.20 | karlpinc | I've got debian on it, but don't use debian much. |
| 23:08.26 | karlpinc | (on the chromebox) |
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| 23:08.43 | karlpinc | It runs in some sort of vm or something. |
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| 23:09.11 | sney | yeah there are various container-ish ways to run debian within chromeos |
| 23:10.02 | karlpinc | I figured it wasn't worth maintaining another box. |
| 23:10.11 | sney | my mini pc runs windows, because it predictably locks up after about an hour of running a display in linux. but it works about 90% otherwise, so I'm gonna keep it until I move |
| 23:14.07 | jhutchins | I have chromecast built in to my Google Fiber TV box, and it can be pretty cool to cast PC video to a 50" screen. Unfortunately, the Google box keeps re-negotiating the wifi. |
| 23:14.32 | jhutchins | (I should probably try a newer kernel.) |
| 23:15.11 | sney | STBs are pretty bad about wifi in general. If you can hardwire it, do. my chromecast experiences improved massively when I got the optional gigabit adapter. |
| 23:16.36 | zykotick9 | sney: "locks up.. display in linux." Since starting to use nVidia's graphics cards on FreeBSD, that has been an issue that has plagued me. If I don't boot backport's kernel and just use debian's stable it seems to happen the least for me. I didn't have this issue when I was running 100% intel graphics, but I also couldn't game. |
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| 23:17.20 | sney | this one is intel, I suspect it just has a firmware bug |
| 23:17.23 | bernalex | hi. any particular reasons I wouldn't run debian on my macbook pro 2013 retina? |
| 23:18.14 | sney | bernalex: older laptops are usually pretty easy to get working, see here for anything that might be specific to your machine https://wiki.debian.org/MacBook |
| 23:18.15 | zykotick9 | for me intel and xorg was what I'd call "very close to rock stable" for my uses. |
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| 23:18.47 | sney | bernalex: I will note that the b43 controllers that apple loves to use for wifi can be pretty annoying to get working in debian. but once it works it's fine. |
| 23:18.48 | bernalex | great. I've grown too old and lazy to use gentoo (more accurately: I don't use my computer often enough to be bothered with customising and fixing stuff), so now I just want to use debian like all the old people did back when I installed gentoo 15 years ago... |
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| 23:19.21 | bernalex | sney: uh-oh. "annoying" how? in gentoo it was basically "emerge broadcom-sta" and add the module to the kernel, and voila. |
| 23:20.02 | sney | bernalex: I wrote that before knowing you were already using linux on it. it's mostly "determine which model it is, chase down various non-free rabbitholes, maybe build a thing or install a firmware blob".. I'm sure you'll manage. |
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| 23:20.25 | bernalex | well, the thing is I don't want to have to manage. that's why I want to use debian. :P |
| 23:20.34 | sney | ,i broadcom-sta-dkms |
| 23:20.37 | judd | Package broadcom-sta-dkms (non-free/kernel, optional) in buster/amd64: dkms source for the Broadcom STA Wireless driver. Version: 6.30.223.271-10; Size: 2156.0k; Installed: 14139k; Homepage: http://www.broadcom.com/support/802.11/linux_sta.php |
| 23:20.59 | sney | if you know broadcom-sta is the right driver, then all you need is the kernel headers and this ^ |
| 23:21.46 | bernalex | https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Apple/MacBookPro/Early-2015-13-inch is this up to date ish? in particular I'm thinking about this bit: You need an amd-64 CD image, that you'll flash on a USB stick. The easiest way to install is using a "netinst" CD image that also include all the non-free firmware packages--see http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/ . Thanks |
| 23:21.48 | bernalex | to the non-free firmware, the WiFi adapter will be detected during installation, so you'll be able to download all additional packages not included in the netinst image. |
| 23:22.51 | sney | using that installer image is generally a good call on any hardware that might require non-free firmware, especially for networking or video. so usually laptops from any vendor. |
| 23:23.51 | sney | but you said you have a macbook from 2013, and this article covers a newer model. I don't know macbooks well enough to say for sure but I suspect they are not identical |
| 23:24.51 | bernalex | I guess I'll have to see tomorrow whether this is more or less work than updating the gentoo install |
| 23:25.18 | sney | I will say that once you have the wifi driver working, there's less work than a typical gentoo install |
| 23:27.00 | bernalex | https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Apple/MacBookPro/11-1 this seems to be the one |
| 23:28.33 | sney | last updated 2015-11, heh. the writer probably got a new machine. but the 'jessie' info should apply to buster+ more or less |
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| 23:29.48 | bernalex | «Some troubles with hibernate and suspend» sounds like a dealbreaker... or not. hard to tell with the ambiguity of the comment. |
| 23:29.55 | sney | if you install from DVD-1, you'll have a more complete system out of the box without a network connection. https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/10.7.0/amd64/iso-dvd/ |
| 23:30.38 | karlpinc | always likes the installer with non-free firmware included |
| 23:30.39 | sney | note that the jessie section refers to kernel 3.16. if you had normal hibernate/suspend on gentoo with a modern kernel, that will be the case in debian too |
| 23:30.54 | bernalex | I had normal suspend with older kernels on gentoo too |
| 23:31.18 | bernalex | i.e. I had normal suspend on gentoo stable when the laptop came out, which would be a very old kernel indeed. |
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| 23:33.38 | zykotick9 | bernalex: have you considered the stable/testing debian branchs? As a Gentoo refugee you might find testing's versions of things a little bit less of a culture shock? YMMV |
| 23:33.42 | bernalex | sney: right so loading debian-10.7.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso onto a USB stick should be fine. is the installer user-friendly/easy when it comes to setting up booting? on gentoo atm I boot from efi straight into linux without a bootloader. |
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| 23:34.11 | bernalex | zykotick9: I run gentoo stable and would run debian stable. the reason I'm switching is to get less of a hassle updating stuff. |
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| 23:34.25 | sney | bernalex: yes, all debian installer isos are hybrid images, write directly to flash. and the installer is straightforward, you will find it very user friendly |
| 23:35.00 | bernalex | sney: sure, but I mean specifically wrt to efi stuff? I guess that's all pretty commonplace nowadays, but it certainly wasn't back in 2013, and it was quite the hassle to get gentoo booting without a bootloader. |
| 23:35.54 | sney | yes, modern debian has grub-efi which behaves fine on any standard efi hardware from the last decade. |
| 23:36.09 | sney | if you specifically want to not use grub, then you'll have to figure that out post-install |
| 23:36.28 | bernalex | all right. so how do I get wifi working without an internet connection? |
| 23:36.47 | doc|work | bernalex, does the computer have an eth port? |
| 23:36.50 | bernalex | no |
| 23:37.33 | bernalex | I have a usb ethernet thing, but nobody here (including myself) has ethernet. I'd have to go to work to get a hold of ethernet. but I can't do that because of corona. |
| 23:37.35 | sney | put the broadcom-sta-dkms package on a thumb drive, boot into your new debian system, install that package and linux-headers-amd64. the module will build, then you reboot |
| 23:38.21 | bernalex | I installed gentoo via sysresccd, where wifi Just Workedâ¢, so that was convenient. |
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| 23:39.16 | karlpinc | https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/10.7.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-dvd/ |
| 23:39.23 | bernalex | isn't there an install image where it is available from the get go? |
| 23:39.40 | sney | karlpinc: please pay attention, the b43 model in this laptop is *not* supported via a firmware blob. it needs an out of tree module. |
| 23:39.53 | karlpinc | sney: Sorry, not paying attention. |
| 23:40.26 | sney | bernalex: for this adapter unfortunately no. thank broadcom for that. most wifi controllers are supported by the firmware image karlpinc just linked |
| 23:40.41 | karlpinc | Broadcomm, horns and pitchfork not included. |
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| 23:41.02 | karlpinc | No way to use a wire for installation? |
| 23:41.03 | bernalex | I see. I have a wireless usb adapter lying around, but I seem to recall that thing not working with Linux whatsoever |
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| 23:41.43 | doc|work | bernalex, does it have to be debian specifically? None of the derivatives will work for you? |
| 23:41.55 | bernalex | I guess what I really should be doing is getting a laptop that doesn't suck x) |
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| 23:42.25 | bernalex | doc|work: I don't want to use anything that hasn't been around at least 20 years. other than that I'm not all that particular. I thought about debian because I like it. |
| 23:42.29 | sney | for systems that can't netinstall, the smoothest option is to install from dvd1 and then install the network driver afterwards. it's quick, other than the file copy it'll take less time than asking about it on irc |
| 23:42.37 | bernalex | and because it's hugely popular, so easy to get help. |
| 23:42.56 | doc|work | bernalex, sure, but things like ubuntu based off of debian really aren't far off that |
| 23:43.22 | bernalex | ubuntu has an unimpressive track record when it comes to e.g. privacy. |
| 23:43.36 | doc|work | was just example |
| 23:43.41 | doc|work | *an example |
| 23:44.37 | doc|work | I use xubuntu for my desktops, community managed |
| 23:45.35 | sney | derivatives are often more willing to include out-of-tree drivers or stuff with iffy licenses, which can make the initial install a little easier, but then you're trusting your computer to that same attitude. |
| 23:45.49 | doc|work | sounds like that's what he needs |
| 23:46.09 | sney | except it takes 5 minutes to install the broadcom driver |
| 23:46.21 | doc|work | ... if you have an internet connection |
| 23:46.35 | bernalex | what's the status with the whole M1 CPU and Linux? |
| 23:46.36 | sney | or a flash drive |
| 23:47.03 | doc|work | bernalex, you're trying to be principled but now considering an apple machine? :) |
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| 23:48.19 | bernalex | I'm not trying to be principled, and we've been talking about an apple machine all along. sorry if I'm the one to inform you, but industrialism isn't pretty. there is no ethical computer. |
| 23:48.45 | doc|work | no way, really? |
| 23:48.51 | n4dir | i'd say the DVD approach mentioned by sney is the way to go |
| 23:49.08 | bernalex | n4dir: yeah it sounds like the sanest solution |
| 23:49.31 | bernalex | well, either that, or just updating gentoo |
| 23:49.33 | sney | (it looks like there's some very early linux hacking on the M1 but nothing substantial yet) |
| 23:50.13 | bernalex | IC |
| 23:50.21 | n4dir | ah, gentoo is installed. |
| 23:50.43 | n4dir | many optins, the most easy one is the one mentioned, imho. |
| 23:50.47 | bernalex | n4dir: yeah I'm just trying to figure out whether installing debian is a small enough headache to pay off early on |
| 23:51.12 | n4dir | yes, i see. i joined the discussion late |
| 23:51.51 | bernalex | I've downloaded the img, so I'll have to see how I'm feeling about it tomorrow. thanks for the help all. sney in particular. |
| 23:51.52 | n4dir | dual boot might be another option. Saves the time spend on thinkging wether it's worth it |
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| 23:52.25 | n4dir | i really shouldn't type while half asleep. The typos. Sorry for that |
| 23:52.26 | bernalex | dual boot? these laptops have a tiny HDD |
| 23:52.48 | bernalex | and also I'd have to repartition '/', so that hardly sounds like less of a headache, hah |
| 23:52.53 | sney | np |
| 23:53.12 | n4dir | ah, ok. You seem settled having thought bout the problem back and forth. As said, the DVD approach, if at all. Good luck and all |
| 23:53.55 | n4dir | "every jackass on the road has got ideas". Portrait of the artist as a young man. |
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