| 00:06.26 | *** join/#debian dvs (~hibbard@2607:f2c0:920f:d800:e6a7:a0ff:fe31:ddf0) |
| 00:06.55 | sney | struck by curiosity, I took the risk, and can happily report that 5.10.0-1 and zfs-dkms 2.0.1-1~exp1 are running just fine on bullseye. so I'm sure buster-backports will follow before *too* long. |
| 00:07.29 | *** join/#debian con_ (~con_@gateway/tor-sasl/con/x-20716450) |
| 00:11.17 | ratrace | just heads up, btrfs nasty performance regression in 5.10 |
| 00:11.41 | *** join/#debian Z4CHe (~zachary@097-094-201-043.res.spectrum.com) |
| 00:12.26 | sney | good thing I'm not using btrfs then. |
| 00:12.30 | sney | makes a mental note anyway |
| 00:14.29 | vvor | ratrace: In what configuration? |
| 00:15.35 | vvor | Raid 1 or one of the fancier ones? |
| 00:15.40 | ratrace | https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux-5.10-Btrfs-Regression (and see links within) |
| 00:15.59 | ratrace | I saw it on my raid1 as well |
| 00:16.09 | *** join/#debian hendursaga (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga) |
| 00:16.11 | vvor | :( |
| 00:16.43 | zykotick9 | heh... sney "report that 5.10.0-1 and zfs-dkms 2.0.1-1~exp1 are running just fine" <- so what you're sayin' is "I didn't just have to downgrade my kernel in bullseye" ;) install zfs-dkms from experimental is the workaround, I take it. |
| 00:17.06 | ratrace | I also use LUKS which is suffering a LOT due to meltdown and spectre mitigations. phoronix ran a test, and inspired by it, I tried to reboot a test machine with mitigations=off and indeed.... 2x difference |
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| 00:17.46 | ratrace | _thankfully_ still outside of sata3 bandwidth saturation, I gots strong CPUs :) but eh.... that plus btrfs atop of it ..... 5.10 is a disaster for me, right now. |
| 00:17.54 | vvor | Whoooow |
| 00:18.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1205] by debhelper |
| 00:18.09 | sney | zykotick9: I'm using 2 different out-of-tree modules so I always check the weather before I upgrade the kernel. but sure, same idea |
| 00:19.06 | ratrace | sney: but it's pretty safe on stable. debian will err on the side of "KILLALL PERFORMANCE HERPDERP!" before breaking zfs. |
| 00:19.29 | ratrace | like last year, 0.7.x was patched to disable SIMD :) |
| 00:20.03 | Souler | Welcome. Which gentlemen or ladies would help me for priv? It is specifically about installing drivers for the NVidia Quadro k2100m graphics card on the ThinkPad W541. I'm not sure, but I think the graphics should work better. You would have to check if everything is as it should be. |
| 00:20.20 | ratrace | ahead of 10.1 or 10.2 release ... can't remember now :: because thanks to GKH .... the political patches were backported to LTS kernels in the middle of their releaes cycle..... FUN FUN FUN FUN |
| 00:20.31 | sney | Souler: that's not how things work here, just give details in the channel and we can help |
| 00:20.48 | sney | !paste |
| 00:20.48 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: https://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: https://imgbb.com/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): https://filebin.net or https://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>. |
| 00:21.24 | ratrace | (last year .... 2019 ... my brain is still in 2020) |
| 00:22.16 | dvs | smacks ratrace out of it! |
| 00:23.19 | sney | eh, it's january, you're allowed |
| 00:25.21 | unixbsd | about 20 years ago, lock was available, is there still lock (not vlock) in debian? |
| 00:26.19 | ratrace | unixbsd: what did that do? |
| 00:26.53 | ratrace | there's no package "lock" ... maybe it's called differently? |
| 00:27.42 | abrotman | unixbsd: for X or console? |
| 00:27.46 | freem | see no binary named "lock" in apt-file |
| 00:28.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1199] by debhelper |
| 00:28.28 | sney | probably thinking of xscreensaver, if it's a screen locker from 20 years ago. |
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| 00:28.46 | abrotman | xlockmore |
| 00:28.56 | sney | or that, yeah |
| 00:29.31 | abrotman | unixbsd: might also help to tell us which WM you're using |
| 00:29.43 | ratrace | 20 years ago I was using whatever KDE had :) |
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| 00:29.53 | vvor | ratrace: Thanks for the Phoronix link. |
| 00:29.59 | ratrace | yw |
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| 00:32.08 | Souler | Dmesg | grep nvidia |
| 00:32.19 | Souler | [ 5.270328] audit: type=1400 audit(1610196518.816:5): apparmor="STATUS" operation="profile_load" profile="unconfined" name="nvidia_modprobe" pid=395 comm="apparmor_parser" |
| 00:32.19 | Souler | [ 5.270332] audit: type=1400 audit(1610196518.816:6): apparmor="STATUS" operation="profile_load" profile="unconfined" name="nvidia_modprobe//kmod" pid=395 comm="apparmor_parser" |
| 00:32.19 | Souler | [ 1.374458] nouveau 0000:01:00.0: NVIDIA GK106 (0e63c0a1) |
| 00:32.19 | Souler | lscpi |
| 00:32.19 | Souler | 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GK106GLM [Quadro K2100M] (rev a1) |
| 00:32.19 | Souler | 01:00.1 Audio device: NVIDIA Corporation GK106 HDMI Audio Controller (rev a1) |
| 00:32.19 | *** kick/#debian [Souler!~debhelper@unaffiliated/debhelper] by debhelper (flood) |
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| 00:32.32 | sney | reading: it's hard |
| 00:33.07 | *** join/#debian Souler (~Souler@user-5-173-232-187.play-internet.pl) |
| 00:33.13 | sney | !paste |
| 00:33.13 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: https://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: https://imgbb.com/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): https://filebin.net or https://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>. |
| 00:33.23 | ratrace | Souler: the !paste above is for you |
| 00:33.31 | Souler | Ok, sorry |
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| 00:36.25 | Souler | paste.debian.net/1180553 |
| 00:37.07 | sney | !nouveau firmware |
| 00:37.07 | dpkg | Binary-only firmware for the nouveau <DRM> driver is packaged for Debian as firmware-misc-nonfree. Without this package installed, poor 2D/3D performance and/or missing video features in the <nouveau> xorg driver is commonly experienced. To install, ask me about <non-free sources>. |
| 00:37.11 | sney | do you have this ^? |
| 00:37.48 | ratrace | Souler: that only shows apparmor profile being loaded. what's the actual problem you're having? "I think [gpu] should work better" is very vague and subjective |
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| 00:38.31 | ratrace | if you have poor game performance, you'll need the proprietary driver. nouveau is still missing the only firmware that matters :) |
| 00:39.25 | sney | a quadro from 2013 isn't going to be too hot gaming wise regardless of driver, but let's try the simple stuff first |
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| 00:44.20 | Souler | I have non-free entries and use the testing repositories |
| 00:44.36 | sney | did you install the firmware package mentioned by the bot above? |
| 00:46.06 | Souler | I did not install anything other than the standard system installation. What should I install exactly? |
| 00:46.14 | sney | firmware-misc-nonfree |
| 00:47.06 | sney | irc messages are short, it helps to read the whole thing |
| 00:47.11 | Souler | This is exactly what the package I need is called? |
| 00:47.17 | sney | yes. |
| 00:47.38 | Souler | Give me a minute |
| 00:47.39 | seanthegeek | EdePopede tomreyn sney dvs I'm finally back. Thanks for testing from your ends. I just switched to a mobile hotspot for troubleshooting, and apt worked. No idea why it's failing on my local network. I've never had this issue before. It persists even after clearing DNS cache on my gateway and local system. Really weird. |
| 00:49.05 | sney | seanthegeek: did you try non-cdn mirrors? the fastly cdn sometimes behaves strangely, particularly if your ISP is doing any cache/proxy tomfoolery behind the scenes |
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| 00:50.16 | ratrace | I don't know if all ccLTDs are covered, but you could try your or nearest country mirror |
| 00:50.41 | ratrace | *ccTLDs |
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| 00:50.50 | sney | I'm pretty sure there are a few university mirrors in the midwest too, which might also have the benefit of being super fast |
| 00:51.03 | ratrace | midwest? |
| 00:51.19 | sney | seanthegeek's hostmask indicates ohio |
| 00:51.38 | ratrace | ah so you mean "US midwest" |
| 00:51.41 | ratrace | thanks for not being US centric on the world wide internet. |
| 00:51.48 | sney | it's contextual, relax |
| 00:52.07 | ratrace | relaxes |
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| 00:56.06 | Souler | I restarted the computer and now I am upgrading. I saw that he wants to install drivers from ati and radeon. I'm not sure if it's good. It will download, install and then see if Blender's performance is better. |
| 00:56.12 | *** join/#debian cjoke_ (~cjoke@cm-84.215.49.158.getinternet.no) |
| 00:56.36 | sney | ok |
| 00:59.11 | ratrace | where did that ati now come from? so that computre has multiple GPUs? |
| 00:59.48 | *** part/#debian vvor (~vvor@5.144.56.220) |
| 01:00.17 | jmcnaught | Probably the "Possibly missing firmwareâ¦" messages during initrd creation. |
| 01:01.55 | ratrace | bah.... seems like we won't see PHP8 in Bullseye....... :( |
| 01:02.46 | ratrace | been reading through the transitions and related blockers bug reports.... and not just that; PHP software just ain't yet ready for 8 |
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| 01:08.05 | Souler | Looking like working this same |
| 01:08.07 | Souler | paste.debian.net/1180555 |
| 01:09.36 | sney | Souler: it's the same driver, you just installed some extra files for it. is your performance better now? |
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| 01:12.36 | Souler | I checked the efficiency of video editing in Blender. Performance is the same after the system upgrade. Should I do something else besides installing firmware-misc-nonfree? Maybe I should load some mod? |
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| 01:14.26 | ratrace | Souler: maybe you just need a stronger computer and/or GPU |
| 01:15.06 | ratrace | Souler: but eh, if that's nvidia GPU (you mentioned ATI at some point too), you could try the proprietary driver instead of nouveau |
| 01:17.02 | ratrace | ,v nvidia-driver |
| 01:17.03 | judd | Package: nvidia-driver on amd64 -- jessie/non-free: 340.106-1; stretch-proposed-updates/non-free: 390.132-1; stretch/non-free: 390.138-1; stretch-backports/non-free: 418.74-1~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 418.152.00-1; buster-backports/non-free: 450.80.02-1~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 450.80.02-2; sid/non-free: 455.45.01-2; experimental/non-free: 460.27.04-1 |
| 01:18.20 | sney | the proprietary driver will probably improve things, even on a mobile gpu that old |
| 01:18.26 | ratrace | hrm.... or maybe not. seems like the oldest driver we have is too new for your GPU |
| 01:18.27 | sney | good thing it's not optimus, heh |
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| 01:19.50 | sney | really? the gpu in my plex instance is a GK107 and that's supported by nvidia-current, this should be close if not the same |
| 01:19.53 | Souler | This is a new computer that I bought a few days ago. I just wondered if it could work even better than it works now. Currently he is a bit stuck as there are transitions in video editing. I thought I didn't have the correct drivers. Maybe the blender has too high requirements. I don't know how to approach this. |
| 01:20.13 | ratrace | sney: nvidia . com says 319 for K2100M |
| 01:20.35 | ratrace | oldest we have is nvidia-legacy-340xx |
| 01:20.48 | dvs | Souler: how new? What CPU? |
| 01:21.00 | sney | "new" as in they didn't have it before, methinks |
| 01:21.06 | ratrace | Souler: that's nowhere near new. you maybe just bought it, but you bought old, if that's K2100M in there |
| 01:21.07 | zykotick9 | ratrace: i see 392 when I search for that K2100M? |
| 01:21.08 | dvs | ok |
| 01:21.49 | zykotick9 | Souler: if you install the program "nvidia-detect" it might say what driver is supported. |
| 01:22.05 | Souler | Okay, so I'm installing the nvidia-driver. It gets. We'll see if it gets better. |
| 01:23.05 | sney | https://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86_64/418.43/README/supportedchips.html has the K2100M listed still |
| 01:23.26 | sney | Souler: make sure you install the linux-headers-amd64 package too |
| 01:23.42 | ratrace | zykotick9: how do you search for it exactly? the nvidia search tab is broken for me (resets the dropdown if I select Quadro from the list), so I tried via google, and 319 is all I got |
| 01:24.19 | zykotick9 | https://www.nvidia.com/Download/Find.aspx?lang=en-us&QNF=1 dropdowns working |
| 01:24.42 | sney | I think nvidia is evil with their robots.txt, I usually search for the driver version and "supported" and then ctrl+f the page |
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| 01:26.41 | ratrace | zykotick9: that's some other search form then. that one works for me too, and actually lists 460 as well. thanks for correcting me |
| 01:28.45 | ratrace | actually....no, it doesn't list K2100M at for newer drivers |
| 01:29.08 | Souler | Lenovo ThinkPad W541 i7-4810MQ/16GB RAM/ 512 SSD / FHD / Quadro K2100M |
| 01:29.36 | *** part/#debian budlight (~richard@host-67-204-195-100.public.eastlink.ca) |
| 01:29.48 | sney | good specs for a system from 5-7 years ago. a bit nicer than my thinkpad from the same era |
| 01:29.58 | ratrace | 390 lists K2100M, so at least nvidia-legacy-390xx should work |
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| 01:32.17 | Souler | nvidia-detect seys to install 39xx driver. Will be see |
| 01:33.38 | ratrace | Souler: so that's the nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver package then |
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| 01:36.48 | Souler | Help!!! Blender does not start. Help me fix my computer !!! |
| 01:37.17 | sney | !your screen |
| 01:37.17 | dpkg | Your screen is in front of your face. #debian cannot see it. Please give as many details as you can about the problem. It wastes our time and yours when we have to guess what is on your screen. See <context>, <what> |
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| 01:38.56 | cybercrypto | lol |
| 01:39.42 | ratrace | Souler: start blender from command line, see what it complains about |
| 01:40.08 | Souler | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:41.06 | Souler | I am now using a different computer for IRC. The other one is behind me. |
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| 01:42.43 | ratrace | Souler: first, please post _full_ pastebin links, with https:// scheme ... many of us have tools or setups that recognize links |
| 01:42.58 | ratrace | Souler: second... what exactly did you do to your computer. which nvidia package did you install? |
| 01:44.56 | Souler | nvidia-legacy-39xx-driver |
| 01:46.43 | ratrace | Souler: can you paste the output of dmesg | grep -i nvidia |
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| 01:48.27 | zykotick9 | Souler: have you rebooted your system since installing the nvidia driver? |
| 01:48.33 | ratrace | oh wait, I missed this: "I am now using a different computer for IRC." ... why? that other one doesn't boot up? |
| 01:48.53 | Souler | paste.debian.net/1180559 |
| 01:49.15 | ratrace | Souler: please post full URL which includes https:// |
| 01:49.53 | Souler | https://paste.debian.net/1180559 |
| 01:50.52 | ratrace | Souler: that's on the computer where blender doesn't start and where you installed nvidia-legacy-39xx-driver ? |
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| 01:53.25 | Souler | yes |
| 01:53.34 | ratrace | that can't be true |
| 01:53.50 | ratrace | what about lsmod | grep nvidia |
| 01:53.52 | *** join/#debian jennie (~jennie@unaffiliated/jennie) |
| 01:53.58 | jennie | hi, why debian support is slow? |
| 01:54.06 | jennie | thats the reason i installed ubuntu |
| 01:54.12 | ratrace | jennie: care to elaborate? |
| 01:54.37 | jennie | i keep asking questions in channel here and never get response for long enough to change my mind |
| 01:54.58 | ratrace | first time I see you |
| 01:55.37 | jennie | can you search channel logs? |
| 01:55.48 | jennie | lookup last message by my njame |
| 01:56.05 | sney | !irclogs |
| 01:56.05 | dpkg | i guess irclog is #debian on <freenode> is logged at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23debian/ , #debian on <OFTC> is logged at http://irclogs.thegrebs.com/debian/ |
| 01:56.15 | ratrace | jennie: there's no mention of your nick in the past 24 hours |
| 01:56.32 | jennie | not in past 24 hours, check earlier than 2 weeks |
| 01:56.35 | *** join/#debian joepreludian (~androirc@2804:d55:5807:5400:b1b2:7698:ae26:c879) |
| 01:56.48 | jennie | thats when i installed ubuntu , when i asked about brightness issue in debian |
| 01:56.55 | ratrace | ANYWAY .... this channel is usually busy and populates. there may be pockets of silence. so, if you have an issue, ask away and have a bit patience please. |
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| 01:57.08 | jennie | i had a problem in debian, that it wont save brightness after reboot and no one replied |
| 01:57.12 | *** part/#debian joepreludian (~androirc@2804:d55:5807:5400:b1b2:7698:ae26:c879) |
| 01:57.17 | ratrace | do you have a problem now? |
| 01:57.34 | sney | #debian is staffed by volunteers, so there isn't always someone here. but I'm here all the time (thanks covid) and I haven't seen you either. maybe just an inconvenient time zone. :< |
| 01:57.51 | jennie | no, as I insatlled ubuntu, but if someone is willing to resolve, it wont take more than 10min to install debian back |
| 01:57.53 | ratrace | the channel is fairly busy |
| 01:58.14 | ratrace | jennie: you'll have to come with actual problem on actual debian and with ready logs and pastes. |
| 01:59.22 | *** join/#debian th0r (~th0r@8.sub-174-250-36.myvzw.com) |
| 01:59.37 | ratrace | but even then.... there's no guarantee of any response. if someone knows, they'll pipe up. sometimes you have to be persistent and repeat your question as people come and go, and timezones change |
| 01:59.57 | jennie | any other platform to ask questions than this channel? |
| 02:00.11 | ratrace | there's debian channels on OFTC |
| 02:00.15 | sney | #debian on oftc, various unofficial forums |
| 02:00.21 | ratrace | mailing lists.... |
| 02:00.28 | sney | ^ |
| 02:01.10 | sney | if you aren't inclined to wait around on irc for an answer, a ml or forum may be more suited anyway |
| 02:03.02 | jennie | can you solve my brightness issue now? |
| 02:03.11 | jennie | I am willing to provide all info |
| 02:03.16 | sney | !idfma |
| 02:03.16 | dpkg | Insufficient Data For Meaningful Answer |
| 02:03.39 | ratrace | jennie: are you actually going to install debian? |
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| 02:03.57 | jennie | ratrace in 10 min |
| 02:04.11 | jennie | i like it thast why i dont want to stick with ubuntu |
| 02:04.52 | ratrace | jennie: again there is no guarantee for anything. maybe someone can help you right away, maybe not. no idea. personally, I'm not desktop oriented, I'm way more useful for servers, filesystems. |
| 02:05.16 | jennie | :( |
| 02:06.34 | ratrace | (though I can help with desktop-y stuff that I personally use, like the nvidia issue someone had before you .. screen brightness ain't among those, I don't use a DE, and don't alter the brightness) |
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| 02:08.00 | Souler | So this is: nvidia-detect told me that the nvidia 418 tesla driver would still be working. I have installed. After its installation, the blender started working, but the performance is as it was at the beginning. I decided to remove everything from nvidia for now and keep only novoveau. I think I installed too much at once. Write me step by step what I should install. |
| 02:08.26 | *** part/#debian jennie (~jennie@unaffiliated/jennie) |
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| 02:09.53 | ratrace | Souler: 418, so that's the nvidia-driver from buster/non-free ? that's it then, if that fixed your issue. there's nothing more you can do to improve performance, with gpu drivers alone |
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| 02:10.50 | ratrace | or actually nvidia-tesla-418-driver from backports? |
| 02:11.42 | ratrace | so anyway, unless there's bugs with specific model and specific driver, proprietary is the best you can do for performance. |
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| 02:21.47 | unborn | "Write me step by step what I should install" - uhm no 'please...' word? oi Souler give me million of euro so I could live forever. whats wrong with this world |
| 02:27.08 | unborn | ratrace: Im sitting here couple of years - past month or two no recall of jennie no slow support at all. this channel is great ! and I think some people are too nice. anyway - sorry for making noise but millennial's without manners piss me off. |
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| 02:29.42 | sney | nice, a non-sequitor shot at millennials when we're the last generation of die hard irc users. I'll try to forget that next time you have a question. |
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| 02:31.17 | unborn | sney: I am in theory millennial as well :) but those very early born expect too much for free everywhere. |
| 02:31.48 | sney | I'm 36 and I've lost most of my hair, and I still can't escape the attitude that I'm somehow a child with no manners. no thanks. change your approach.l |
| 02:33.23 | Souler | So yeah: I removed everything from nvdia, restarted my computer, installed nvidia 418 tesla driver. Everything works, but I haven't noticed any great improvement. Are there any other packages from nvidia that we will need and possibly improve performance? NVidia Settings or something else? |
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| 02:34.24 | unborn | sney: well you are my age.. am 40 badly - I wont change my attitude - knowledge takes decades and I see no reason for rude people too lazy to learn to just get what they want just because they want it.. decades are not free even open source is not free, someone had paid for it with his own time. |
| 02:35.04 | sney | Souler: it sounds like you just have an old gpu, and you've done the best you can with it. |
| 02:35.06 | unborn | bold as well. |
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| 02:40.42 | cybercrypto | Thats quite interesting... I am using irc a bit after BBS got 'killed' and I like it. Nowadays, it is quite common that people ask for other 'support channels' for speed of course... and I think it is not only yong people. :-) |
| 02:43.56 | Souler | sney: Maybe you are right. From what I can remember, Blender always performed a bit worse for video editing. Maybe I got everything I could out of the graphics and the program itself is simply not efficient enough. Most likely, I will change my video editing program and that will be the end of it. Do you recommend any good video editing program? I'm shooting a music video soon and I should be keeping an eye on something by now. |
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| 02:45.36 | sney | Souler: I use kdenlive for video editing, I hear openshot is good. That stuff will generally be smoother than 3d modelling with older hardware too. |
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| 02:50.04 | unborn | kdenlive is best.. openshot is good but luck of features kdenlive have... |
| 02:54.44 | Souler | I also think Kdenlive is good, I used it the most. Has a lot of plugins. What only irritated me is that there are few paths in it. Unless I can't add more. |
| 02:57.20 | unborn | Souler: its open source you can change it as you need it. |
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| 06:17.11 | alexrelis[m] | I wish I had to edit a video. I want to try out Kdenlive but never have the chance to use it. |
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| 08:34.03 | awal1 | 2 monitors here. why 'obsession-logout' (from obsession pkg) shows its pop-up window in the second monitor when on? |
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| 08:48.38 | shtrb | Does "e1000e enpXXYYZZ: 10/100 speed: disabling TSO" mean my ethernet card decided to work in 10 mbit ? |
| 08:49.26 | jelly | shtrb, no, it means the link is either 100Mbps or 10Mbps |
| 08:51.14 | shtrb | Thanks |
| 08:51.18 | jelly | shtrb, ethtool enpXXYYZZ |
| 08:52.11 | shtrb | Speed: 100Mb/s, thanks |
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| 08:53.49 | shtrb | I just don't understand why my speed (even with speedtest-cli goes now to 10 Mbit , when using the same cable on a windows machine from WSL give me 60 MBit) |
| 08:54.16 | shtrb | I know a full shutdown should fix that, but I do not understand this thing |
| 08:55.44 | jelly | did you test with iperf talking to a machine on the same network segment |
| 08:56.11 | shtrb | no, would try now |
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| 08:58.43 | jelly | speedtest-cli older than 2.x something has bugs and may report a lot less bandwidth than actually available |
| 08:59.15 | jelly | 2.1.x is okay I think |
| 08:59.32 | shtrb | internally between the two (WSL and Debian says 60 which is a possible ok ) |
| 09:00.48 | jelly | maybe run a native windows iperf, not wsl |
| 09:00.58 | shtrb | jelly, the problem is that sometimes speedtest-cli does show me the proper speed |
| 09:01.18 | shtrb | jelly, even with the WSL's one I get a sane speed (I checked inside my network ) |
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| 09:26.10 | mathsaey | Hey everybody. I'm trying to set up a raspberry pi (running raspbian) as a bridged AP. I've managed to do this on my home network without issues. However, when I plug in the pi on the network where I actually want to use the pi as AP, nothing works. The pi is assigned an ip by the router (I can ssh to it), but it does not seem to have a correct gateway set up. |
| 09:27.14 | mathsaey | I'm guessing there is some difference in dhcp setup between the local network and the target network. I don't know that much about networking, so if anybody could give me some pointers I'd be very grateful :). |
| 09:30.01 | aminvakil | mathsaey: you should be more specific on changes, what are you trying to do? what do you expect? what do you see instead? and ask it in its proper channel :) i'm not sure debian is the one |
| 09:33.51 | mathsaey | Ah, I figured #debian would be fine since most of this is not raspberry pi specific. But I'll look around for a raspbian specific channel :). Besides that, I'm not 100% sure which additional information you are asking for. Running ping 1.1.1.1 on the pi returns "network is unreachable", while everything worked fine at home (i.e. the pi had internet and any devices connected to the pi over wlan0 had |
| 09:33.53 | mathsaey | internet as well). |
| 09:34.20 | mathsaey | But anyway, I'll look around for a more suitable channel, thanks for replying and telling me! |
| 09:37.06 | aminvakil | i don't think your question is specific to the os you're running, and it's purely network-related. |
| 09:37.49 | aminvakil | also for network troubleshooting don't start with pinging 1.1.1.1, first see if you can reach yourself (localhost), then gateway, then outside of gateway |
| 09:39.58 | mathsaey | I should have mentioned that, pinging localhost and the gateway work with no issues. Since dns is down I just used 1.1.1.1 to see if I could reach anything outside my network, which I can't. |
| 09:40.29 | mathsaey | And right, I asked here since I figured the packages and the default configuration is basically the same between raspbian and debian. |
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| 09:44.53 | quadrathoch2 | mathsaey nope, the raspberry pi foundation do change a few things, so we in #debian have no clue which of those changes are. that's why it makes more sense to ask them |
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| 09:45.15 | mathsaey | All right, makes sense. Thanks |
| 09:46.27 | jelly | !raspbian |
| 09:46.28 | dpkg | Raspberry Pi OS (previously called Raspbian) is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian (or #raspberrypi) on irc.freenode.net for support. https://www.raspbian.org/ |
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| 09:58.05 | freem | Hello. Got an "interesting" behavior at this boot: acpid was flooding "inotify fd eof encountered" into logs, making CPU run at 100% (and the log daemon, of course). Restarting it gives: |
| 09:58.06 | freem | starting up with netlink and the input layer |
| 09:58.06 | freem | 27 rules loaded |
| 09:58.06 | freem | waiting for events: event logging is on |
| 09:58.06 | freem | input layer connection closed |
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| 10:05.05 | freem | got a problem since previous boot with acpid-2.0.31 (in debian 10). It spits "inotify fd eof encountered" to the logs, using a full core. When I restart it, the problem "disappear" and gives https://paste.debian.net/1180586/ instead. I must admit I never checked the logs before a core was locked (which is noisy but I also have cpu usage in status bar). |
| 10:05.46 | freem | I don't think I've updated my system yesterday |
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| 10:20.36 | [sr] | howdy |
| 10:20.51 | [sr] | the debian package for powerdns misses the init.d script, where should i get it? |
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| 10:22.03 | ksk | ,v powerdns |
| 10:22.04 | judd | No package named 'powerdns' was found in amd64. |
| 10:22.50 | avu | [sr]: as powerdns does not seem to be in Debian, you should probably ask whoever created that package |
| 10:23.48 | ksk | it is, name is pdns-server |
| 10:24.31 | ksk | freem: the package pdns-server _does_ contain "./etc/init.d/pdns" |
| 10:24.35 | ksk | why do you think otherwise? |
| 10:25.09 | azeem | ksk: wasn't that for [sr]? |
| 10:25.37 | ksk | oh yes, indeed. sorry! |
| 10:25.39 | ksk | [sr]: for youuu. |
| 10:26.19 | [sr] | ksk: doesn't :| |
| 10:27.06 | ksk | [sr]: it does, I just downloaded the amd64 buster package for pdns-server, and checked myself. |
| 10:27.18 | azeem | maybe [sr] is running testing/unstable |
| 10:27.26 | azeem | it seems the init script got since dropped |
| 10:27.26 | themill | ,file /etc/init.d/pdns |
| 10:27.26 | [sr] | yes i'm on sid |
| 10:27.31 | judd | Search for /etc/init.d/pdns in buster/amd64: pdns-server: etc/init.d/pdns |
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| 10:27.37 | ksk | !debian-next |
| 10:27.37 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc |
| 10:27.45 | themill | points [sr] at /topic |
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| 10:32.59 | [sr] | oh i see |
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| 10:33.09 | [sr] | thanks for the info |
| 10:33.27 | themill | [sr]: from the changelog, the init script was buggy, didn't work, and couldn't be fixed. If you're running sid, you really really should be reading the changelogs and also NEWS.Debian for the packages, both of which mention this change. |
| 10:33.39 | themill | !apt-listchanges |
| 10:33.40 | dpkg | apt-listchanges is a tool that displays NEWS.Debian file contents (default) and/or the changelogs of Debian packages before upgrading them (dpkg-reconfigure apt-listchanges). It is recommended for users of stable to install the apt-listchanges package, to see what is happening to their systems as security fixes are applied; it should be made _mandatory_ for users of testing and unstable. Also ask me about <d-d-a>, <apt-listbugs>. |
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| 10:37.11 | jelly | [sr], if you rely on pdns-server, you might investigate and consider using upstream's builds as well |
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| 10:41.51 | shtrb | Please correct me if I'm wrong , in case of (hardware) raid 5 single disk failure , there filesystem nor any running application should see any effect at all. |
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| 10:42.03 | Mr_Queue | nope |
| 10:42.14 | shtrb | The FS would have an inidication ? |
| 10:42.31 | petn-randall | shtrb: nope |
| 10:42.33 | Mr_Queue | will march right along until you lose another one and then everything is tits up. |
| 10:42.53 | Mr_Queue | shtrb: ^^ |
| 10:43.33 | shtrb | petn-randall, do you mean I was originally wrong (that the filesystem will have an indication ) or that I was correct originally that the fs should not have any indication at all |
| 10:43.56 | Mr_Queue | You will notice when you replace the drive an the array rebuilds. |
| 10:44.18 | petn-randall | shtrb: RAID and the filesystem are completely independent. The filesystem will notice *nothing* about a disk fail in RAID5. That's intended. |
| 10:44.42 | petn-randall | shtrb: You will however notice a disk fail, since you're hopefully monitoring the health of the RAID array. |
| 10:45.12 | shtrb | petn-randall, thank you ! |
| 10:45.15 | Mr_Queue | SMART can email you, or use something like Zabbix to watch the arrays.. |
| 10:45.56 | Mr_Queue | Something to think about.... The I/O thrashing that goes on rebuilding an array can drop more drives from the array. |
| 10:46.47 | shtrb | Thank you Mr_Queue |
| 10:46.53 | petn-randall | Mr_Queue: That would be a serious design error, and something I haven't seen in neither HW nor SW RAID. |
| 10:47.15 | ratrace | shtrb: 2021 called, they're asking why are you not using software raid yet ;) :) |
| 10:47.45 | petn-randall | ratrace: SW RAID doesn't have writeback cache :P |
| 10:48.29 | Mr_Queue | petn-randall: If you have an array with 5 drives with 60,000 hours on each because that when you built it... If you lose a drive, then thrash the rest rebuilding the new on in...... You are right there in the danger zone. |
| 10:48.41 | petn-randall | Btw, you can set I/O priority, and bandwidth limits for rebuilding on most RAID. |
| 10:48.51 | ratrace | petn-randall: but the kernel does :) |
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| 10:50.05 | petn-randall | ratrace: writeback cache is not the same as dirty pages. The former gives you a huge performance boost on things like fdatasync(). |
| 10:51.15 | Mr_Queue | I don't think hw raid is really needed these days. You should have more than one array to read and write from and disk cache in memory should be the fastest anyhow. |
| 10:51.33 | ratrace | petn-randall: so is ZFS SLOG ;) |
| 10:52.18 | petn-randall | Mr_Queue: You can't have write cache in memory. |
| 10:52.36 | Mr_Queue | zfs |
| 10:52.41 | petn-randall | Sorry, *writeback cache. |
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| 10:54.08 | ratrace | anyhoo, those few battery backed (or else bye, mr. data) MB of write burst dampeners is cute. insufficient "discount" on the otherwise high "price" of hw raids ;) |
| 10:54.34 | Mr_Queue | cache-cade or what megaraid calls it. Expensive for what you get. |
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| 10:55.23 | petn-randall | Well, if you have a dedicated device for writeback cache you're basically just reimplementing what a hw raid does. |
| 10:55.44 | ratrace | have y'all seen the performance of a nvme SLOG? that's a beast... multi-GB beast. eats the BBU multi-MB hw-raid cache for breakfast. |
| 10:56.16 | ratrace | petn-randall: yes, but! apt install and that's it. hw raid is .... well.... good luck replacing the faulty unit :) |
| 10:57.20 | Mr_Queue | The last array I build with NVME was 4 1T's in raid0. They were................. pretty quick. |
| 10:57.22 | ratrace | (and if you don't ZFS, bcache ftw (note: not bcachefs, but bcache)) |
| 10:58.31 | ratrace | Mr_Queue: almost as if the PCI lanes themselves were the bottleneck :) |
| 10:58.37 | Mr_Queue | Yup. |
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| 11:00.48 | Mr_Queue | bifurcation across the lanes really.. I think today's PCI is a little better but you still need to cut it up a bit.. |
| 11:01.08 | Mr_Queue | I didn't care, the performance I needed was there.. There were a total of 3 arrays configured for HA so it wasn't a big deal to lose one, or even two. |
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| 11:03.52 | Mr_Queue | They served a Galera cluster and I only needed 1 of 3 to be up. |
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| 11:30.40 | dragestil | hello, does installing nonfree wireless firmware pose security problems? |
| 11:31.31 | shtrb | It depends, technically a wireless access if a security threat, so does non debian blobs that had not been audited |
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| 11:31.51 | shtrb | if you install the firmware from outside debian , that's a risk too |
| 11:33.09 | dragestil | thanks. but is a nonfree wireless firmware less secure than a free wireless firmware, in that the former can log your packets etc? |
| 11:33.24 | noisemaker | ratrace: I will take a look, ty |
| 11:33.47 | freem | dragestil: both FOSS and non-FOSS can log stuff. The only security is when there is an actual audit. |
| 11:34.53 | freem | I can imagine highly secure yet non-FOSS code, and FOSS code leaking like a sieve. Without much efforts. |
| 11:34.54 | dragestil | does being in debian firmware-nonfree make it less likely to log stuff? |
| 11:35.03 | shtrb | dragestil, I would say that audited coded is more secure than non audited |
| 11:35.35 | shtrb | dragestil, no, your running firmware can do lot's of bad stuff |
| 11:35.38 | freem | and to be clear, I can also imagine highly safe FOSS code and non-FOSS code leaking like a sieve. Easily, too. |
| 11:35.45 | dragestil | ...less likely compared to nonfree firmawares not in debian firmaware-nonfree? |
| 11:36.18 | dragestil | alright thanks |
| 11:36.58 | dragestil | but is stuff in debian firmware-nonfree audited in any way? |
| 11:38.11 | azeem | dragestil: not by Debian at least |
| 11:38.14 | petn-randall | dragestil: Your wifi device already contains non-free firmware on it, just as your CPU contains non-free microcode. |
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| 11:38.37 | petn-randall | dragestil: You're merely providing an updated version by installing non-free firmware. |
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| 11:39.19 | dragestil | petn-randall: argh, that sucks |
| 11:40.11 | tuxmania | Hi all. Trying to recover an old application installed on Debian Squeeze (6.0). It seems that I can no more access squeeze repositories. When doing an apg-get update, it gets stucked on "Waiting for headers". |
| 11:40.13 | freem | dragestil: you may use CVE databases to evaluate how much you can trust something I guess. Or try to break it yourself, but that's... well, *not* easy |
| 11:40.21 | tuxmania | Should I change the repositories? |
| 11:41.14 | freem | also, there are people which sell hardware they claim with as little as possible close firmwares. But that's usually *not cheap* if you compare performances |
| 11:41.21 | tarzeau | tuxmania: what is the applications package name? |
| 11:41.53 | petn-randall | !squeeze-lts |
| 11:41.53 | dpkg | Volunteer-provided security support for Debian 6.0 "Squeeze" ended on 2016-02-29 for a limited set of packages for i386 and amd64. An appropriate line for your sources.list is «deb http://archive.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-lts main». |
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| 11:41.59 | petn-randall | tuxmania: ^ |
| 11:42.20 | tuxmania | tarzeau: actually it is a xivo. In order to backup it, I need to install xivo-fai |
| 11:42.42 | dragestil | freem: will check out cve database. not cheap as in hardware with free firmware performs worse than with nonfree firmware? |
| 11:43.06 | tarzeau | tuxmania: that never has been in debian, right? |
| 11:43.23 | freem | no, as it's rarer and cost more money for same performances |
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| 11:43.43 | freem | might have other issues, never had the chance to get my hands on some |
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| 11:44.46 | dragestil | freem: i see thanks. |
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| 11:44.57 | freem | for example, you might use puri.sm 's products. From what I've read, they try really hard to make sure 1) hardware is as FOSS as possible and 2) can't phone home if you don't want it (physical switches) |
| 11:45.16 | freem | there are probably lot of other solutions around, but that's a niche market |
| 11:45.47 | tuxmania | tarzeau: I think I am confused with all. Not in the debian repo, you re right. But since I was not able to do an apt-get update, I thought this might be linked |
| 11:46.06 | dragestil | freem: what is "phone home"? |
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| 11:46.40 | quadrathoch2 | dragestil transfering data to the company back for example |
| 11:46.55 | freem | you run some hardware produced by society A. It does it's job, but also logs stuff. Logs by themselves are useless, so the hardware "phones home" (to A) to send the logs |
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| 11:48.06 | dragestil | i see. |
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| 11:49.17 | dragestil | i see "Free drivers, firmware, and hardware designs" is part of the current FSF HPP https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/priority-projects/ |
| 11:50.09 | shtrb | freem, for what I remember purism still have binary blobs |
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| 11:51.19 | freem | I'm certain of it, but I think they did a lot to remove as much as possible for an intel-arch, and have hardware switches to cut power/signal to camera, microphone and wifi stuff. As sad as it is, it's the best I've heard about :/ |
| 11:51.49 | freem | shtrb: ^ so if you know better in terms of computers for actual work, please share :) |
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| 11:52.29 | freem | (I think physical killswitches should even be mandatory for FOSS-firmwares anyway. Software bugs can happen so fast...) |
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| 11:53.57 | H-var | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:54.31 | H-var | sorry for the bad sentence structure |
| 11:54.57 | ratrace | H-var: did the answer I gave you before help? |
| 11:55.37 | H-var | what command should I type into terminal? |
| 11:57.39 | ratrace | H-var: nvidia-settings has ability to load config and you can try sticking that into your DM's rc file, eg. ~/.xsessionrc. |
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| 11:59.24 | ratrace | H-var: look at the nvidia-settings manpage, you'll see options like --load-config-only |
| 12:00.40 | ratrace | there's also a section on loading the settings automatically where it recommends using your user's or global xinitrc |
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| 13:25.35 | deeplogic | is kernel 5.10 going to break my machine ? |
| 13:25.54 | petn-randall | !raspbian |
| 13:25.54 | dpkg | Raspberry Pi OS (previously called Raspbian) is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian (or #raspberrypi) on irc.freenode.net for support. https://www.raspbian.org/ |
| 13:26.03 | petn-randall | Woops, stuck in backlog. |
| 13:26.31 | petn-randall | deeplogic: What makes you assume that? |
| 13:26.58 | deeplogic | seems like a tremendous jump from 5.0.9 |
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| 13:28.52 | petn-randall | deeplogic: Do you mean 5.9? |
| 13:29.02 | shtrb | ,v kernel |
| 13:29.04 | judd | No package named 'kernel' was found in amd64. |
| 13:29.07 | shtrb | ,v linux-image |
| 13:29.08 | judd | No package named 'linux-image' was found in amd64. |
| 13:29.12 | petn-randall | ,kernels |
| 13:29.13 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.10.0-trunk-686 (5.10.2-1~exp1); sid: 5.10.0-1-686 (5.10.4-1); bullseye: 5.10.0-1-686 (5.10.4-1); buster-backports: 5.9.0-0.bpo.2-686 (5.9.6-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-13-686-pae (4.19.160-2); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.13-686 (4.19.160-2~deb9u1); jessie-backports: |
| 13:29.14 | judd | 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1) |
| 13:29.30 | shtrb | deeplogic, !next |
| 13:29.48 | shtrb | !testing |
| 13:29.49 | dpkg | Testing is a continuously updated release between <stable> and <unstable>, currently codenamed <bullseye>. See http://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting . Support in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net and ask me about <testing faq> <buster->bullseye> <testing security> <moving target> <apt-listchanges> <apt-listbugs> and <bts>. You need a sound knowledge of Debian and be prepared for a very bumpy ride. Don't use it on things that are critical! |
| 13:29.56 | shtrb | deeplogic, ^ |
| 13:31.02 | deeplogic | 5.9.0-4 is the only recent kernel that doesn't crash intermittently for me |
| 13:31.19 | shtrb | you mean an oops ? |
| 13:31.37 | deeplogic | nope, this laptop locks up |
| 13:32.16 | deeplogic | the magic key doesn't help |
| 13:32.52 | petn-randall | !tias |
| 13:32.52 | dpkg | TIAS is "Try It And See". |
| 13:32.54 | petn-randall | deeplogic: ^ |
| 13:33.09 | petn-randall | deeplogic: Are you running buster with backports, or testing/sid? |
| 13:33.22 | shtrb | deeplogic, a lockup might indicate non kernel problems |
| 13:34.11 | deeplogic | testing |
| 13:34.14 | shtrb | deeplogic, when you are hit with a lockup check if pushing on capslock / numlock change the led state for example , if not , the lookup is on firmware level |
| 13:34.29 | deeplogic | ah, good advice |
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| 13:36.24 | deeplogic | and i get a lot of zeros printed into /var/log/syslog when that happens |
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| 13:37.03 | shtrb | before or after the lockup ? |
| 13:37.27 | deeplogic | i see it in the log after i restart |
| 13:37.46 | shtrb | that is not what I had asked |
| 13:39.18 | deeplogic | after the zeros the new boot messages begin, so i assume the zeros happen when it locks up |
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| 13:49.35 | deeplogic | up 9 days... well i need to see what 5.10 will do.. detaching for reboot |
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| 13:55.15 | noisemaker | Does any one has errors at boot related with "ACPI BIOS Error (bug) Could not resolve ..." and error related with "Volume group '-some-name-vg-' not found - Cannot process volume group '-some-name-bg'" ? |
| 13:55.31 | noisemaker | (this is a fresh install by the way) |
| 13:56.15 | shtrb | First one can happen if you have a firmware (board) that requrie an ugrade , or use of nuevo with some nvidia cards |
| 13:58.45 | noisemaker | shtrb: hum ok, I will ignore it then. |
| 14:00.15 | shtrb | noisemaker, you can just upgrade your firmware .. |
| 14:02.00 | noisemaker | shtrb: bios ? |
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| 14:07.16 | shtrb | UEFI but yes |
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| 14:08.42 | noisemaker | shtrb: I just checked the mb maker, and is the last one. |
| 14:08.55 | shtrb | try with lvfs |
| 14:09.02 | shtrb | Are you with nvidia card ? |
| 14:09.20 | noisemaker | shtrb: no. |
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| 14:10.18 | shtrb | just a warning acpi bios issues , will have a toll on your power mangment options and getting sensor data. |
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| 14:12.40 | noisemaker | shtrb: i will ignore it. Do you have any idea about the other about volume group? I see in another machine the same error, both ar using encryption. |
| 14:13.33 | shtrb | no sorry |
| 14:13.41 | noisemaker | np |
| 14:13.41 | shtrb | wait for ratrace to arrive he know everything |
| 14:14.10 | noisemaker | Ok. ty |
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| 14:23.19 | ratrace | heh, thanks for the vote of confidence, but no, ratrace doesn't know everything :) especially not about ACPI bugs, sorry. |
| 14:23.39 | Kliment | Hello, I tried running live-testing-amd64-kde and apparently there is no way to actually configure a network? |
| 14:23.49 | Kliment | am I missing something? |
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| 14:30.17 | quadrathoch2 | !debian-next |
| 14:30.17 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc |
| 14:30.21 | quadrathoch2 | Kliment ^ |
| 14:30.33 | Kliment | Ah, thank you |
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| 14:30.53 | jhutchins | Kliment: ... and yes, you are missing something. |
| 14:31.35 | Kliment | jhutchins: something obvious enough to communicate in one sentence, or should I ask in the other channel? |
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| 14:33.02 | jhutchins | Kliment: You need to include details. We aren't aware of any failures in network configuration, and since there are at least three ways to configure it, we'd be surprised if they were all to fail at once. Usually things break one at a time in testing. |
| 14:33.11 | jhutchins | Kliment: What did you try to do? How did you try to do it? What did you expect to happen? What happened instead? |
| 14:33.45 | jhutchins | Kliment: We can answer general questions here, but things specific to testing are best asked in the other channel. |
| 14:34.11 | Kliment | jhutchins: Oh, sorry, I mean there is no UI for network configuration, network manager or similar |
| 14:34.18 | Kliment | I guess just missing package |
| 14:34.24 | Kliment | I'll ask on -next |
| 14:34.50 | jhutchins | Kliment: Yes, CLI and GUI intefaces for Network Manager. It's often an applet that needs to be added to your task bar, but usually installed by default. |
| 14:35.04 | jhutchins | Kliment: You can also configure it manually by editing config files. |
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| 14:36.01 | jhutchins | !manual |
| 14:36.01 | dpkg | If you are looking for manuals, guides and procedures focusing on Debian - from a user perspective, the administrator's view and others - see http://www.debian.org/doc/ . Also ask me about <reference> and <grounding>. |
| 14:36.32 | Kliment | jhutchins: it appears networkmanager is not installed at all on that image (unlike, say, the cinnamon image I also tried) |
| 14:36.49 | jelly | that seems unusual for a Plasma desktop |
| 14:36.58 | Kliment | indeed, which is why I'm bringing it up |
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| 14:41.54 | iterati | Hi. What packages and/or settings needed for gtk2 programs (gimp, pidgin etc) to appear similar to gtk3 ones ? |
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| 14:43.36 | Kliment | jhutchins: no, I was wrong, network-manager is in the package lists, just no GUI or CLI ui for it |
| 14:43.51 | shtrb | Kliment, check if plasma-nm is installed please |
| 14:44.28 | shtrb | the applet itself sometimes crashes^(tm) and you can manually start it by restarting the plasma session itself |
| 14:44.39 | Kliment | shtrb: it's not installed |
| 14:44.51 | Kliment | shtrb: I did check, neither is nmcli or nmtui |
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| 14:45.40 | shtrb | scratches his head |
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| 14:46.23 | Kliment | it's testing/unstable, so some weirdness is to be expected :) |
| 14:46.32 | shtrb | not in debian |
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| 14:49.39 | Kliment | oh huh, looks like I grabbed an unofficial nonfree image, could that be the issue? |
| 14:50.15 | Kliment | got it from https://cdimage.debian.org/images/unofficial/non-free/images-including-firmware/weekly-live-builds/amd64/iso-hybrid/ |
| 14:50.27 | gnat_x | iterati: the gtk theme you use probably has the most affect. but that's limited, since the software doesn't follow the gtk3 paradigms that are different from gtk2. |
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| 14:53.21 | shtrb | Kliment, the non offical is an okish (it should have firmware ) |
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| 14:57.47 | Rob_Jones | can anyone help me with why im getting my ftp error? Status:Connection attempt failed with "ECONNREFUSED - Connection refused by server". |
| 14:58.19 | Rob_Jones | I have port 21 enabled by the way in my firewall (21/tcp ALLOW Anywhere) |
| 14:59.12 | iterati | gnat_x: thanks. I see there is a package gnome-themes-extra "This is the version of Adwaita, the standard GNOME theme, for the |
| 14:59.12 | iterati | GTK+ 2.x toolkit". Probably that's it, I guess. |
| 15:00.07 | gnat_x | Rob_Jones: i'm going to assume you've been warned that ftp is a bad idea, and need it for something specific... are you seeing anything in the ftp logs on the server? |
| 15:00.07 | ratrace | Rob_Jones: do you have ip_conntrack_ftp kernel module loaded? |
| 15:00.36 | gnat_x | oooh. gonna have to read about ip_conntrack_ftp... |
| 15:01.01 | greycat | !ftp must die |
| 15:01.01 | dpkg | FTP MUST DIE! http://mywiki.wooledge.org/FtpMustDie . For authenticated file transfer, ask me about <sftp>. For unauthenticated download, HTTP: http://daniel.haxx.se/docs/ftp-vs-http.html . Debian ceased offering mirrors via FTP on 2017-11-01 https://www.debian.org/News/2017/20170425 |
| 15:01.15 | ratrace | it's automatic punching of holes in the firewall for PASV connections -- otherwise you must manually open the ports in your PASV ports range |
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| 15:01.42 | ratrace | (that said, I fully support the above warnings and disclaimers about FTP not being fit for any use these days) |
| 15:02.27 | Rob_Jones | im just trying to get ftp for wordpress to work first |
| 15:02.31 | Rob_Jones | i know sftp is better |
| 15:02.40 | greycat | What the heck does ftp have to do with wordpress? |
| 15:02.50 | Rob_Jones | ftp is used to download updates |
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| 15:03.26 | ksk | Rob_Jones: for that to work you would however not need any ftp server running.. |
| 15:03.28 | greycat | ... please tell me this is a joke or a misunderstanding. |
| 15:03.31 | ratrace | Rob_Jones: but WP is then a FTP client, not a server..... which would affect your _outbound_ ports, not inbound |
| 15:03.51 | greycat | And indeed, if you only wanted to download updates you would need an FTP client, not an FTP server. |
| 15:03.52 | ratrace | and you should not block outbound connections unless you know what you're doing. |
| 15:04.22 | ratrace | I'm calling it.... |
| 15:04.24 | ratrace | !xy |
| 15:04.24 | dpkg | Slow down for a bit! Are you sure that you need to jump through that particular hoop to achieve your goal? We suspect you don't, so why don't you back up a bit and tell us about the overall objective... We know that people often falsely diagnose problems because they are too close to them -- it's easy to miss that there is a better way to proceed. See http://mywiki.wooledge.org/XyProblem |
| 15:04.45 | Rob_Jones | so i dont need an ftp account for my wordpress? |
| 15:04.48 | ratrace | primarily because WP would/should/must use https these days. |
| 15:05.01 | ksk | Rob_Jones: to the best of my knowledge even in the wordpress update there is no ftp included. wordpress had an integrated updater for quite a while now, you can use it via your admin panel, or even enable automatic updates.. |
| 15:05.33 | ksk | Rob_Jones: maybe refer to the wordpress documentation before you continue implementing anything. |
| 15:05.45 | ratrace | personally I'd recommend WP not do any kind of self-modifying things, and you can use wp-cli from teh command line to upgrade it.... but that's maybe too advanced suggestion at this stage. |
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| 15:10.02 | zege | Rob_Jones: https://wordpress.org/support/article/how-to-install-wordpress/#detailed-instructions |
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| 15:11.08 | xoyi- | I've installed a fresh Debian (buster) image on a newly acquired Carbon X1 8th gen. However I believe it doesn't recognize the VGA card yet |
| 15:11.13 | shtrb | Rob_Jones, AFAIK you don't need ftp for wp, some people do provide it but that is absolutly not needed |
| 15:11.23 | shtrb | VGA card ?! |
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| 15:12.17 | xoyi- | sorry I mean the graphics driver doesn't seem to be working properly. |
| 15:12.47 | greycat | You might need non-free firmware. What's the video chipset? |
| 15:13.10 | Rob_Jones | zege: wordpress is installed already |
| 15:13.19 | Rob_Jones | and i am using an ssh2 plugin now |
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| 15:14.35 | zege | Rob_Jones: Than you don't need ftp at all. I was confused because Wp documentation mentions uploading the wp-files to the server via ftp., |
| 15:14.52 | b1ack0p | zup |
| 15:15.28 | zege | Rob_Jones: what plugin? And why would one need that? |
| 15:15.33 | greycat | I think the WP documentation is written for people who have extremely bizarre setups, e.g. they can ONLY send files to their "web space" via FTP or something. |
| 15:15.42 | ksk | this. |
| 15:16.12 | greycat | I wonder if they have a set of documentation for people who *don't* have bizarre needs or intellectual handicaps. |
| 15:16.22 | Kliment | the kde live image network manager problem has been resolved in today's weekly |
| 15:16.23 | xoyi- | @greycat any idea how can I find out the chipset? |
| 15:16.29 | greycat | xoyi-: lspci -nn |
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| 15:17.11 | zege | greycat: It is very usual to have access to your webspace by ftp only where i come from. This would be cheap Webspace offers. |
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| 15:17.27 | xoyi- | greycat "VGA compatible controller [0300]: Intel Corporation Device [8086:9b41] (rev 02)" |
| 15:18.00 | greycat | OK, you'll probably need firmware-misc-nonfree which is obviously in the non-free section. |
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| 15:18.21 | shtrb | there is only one true 8086 ! |
| 15:18.51 | greycat | !non-free sources |
| 15:18.51 | dpkg | Edit /etc/apt/sources.list, ensure that the two main Debian mirror lines end with "main contrib non-free" rather than just "main", then «apt-get update». But bear in mind that you'll be installing <non-free> software. These may have onerous terms; check the licenses. See also <sources.list>. |
| 15:18.54 | ratrace | shtrb: AMD called. They want a word with you. |
| 15:19.12 | Kliment | ratrace: they can have 8088 :P |
| 15:19.29 | shtrb | that's intel too :P |
| 15:19.38 | Kliment | Yeah I know |
| 15:19.50 | zege | Thats Intel UHD graphics. Looks like you need kernel > 4.19. https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Dell/Dell%20XPS%2013%207390 (same chip) |
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| 15:21.05 | greycat | Oh, ugh. There are new Intel boxes that buster doesn't support now? :( |
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| 15:22.05 | zege | greycat: looks like |
| 15:22.34 | xoyi- | I've added non-free, how can I know which package I'll need for the graphics driver? |
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| 15:23.07 | zege | xoyi-: in your case you need a newer kernel from buster-backports |
| 15:23.10 | greycat | xoyi-: if zege is correct, you will need a kernel from buster-backports, and probably firmware from there as well. |
| 15:23.13 | shtrb | xoyi-, look at what greycat had said to you |
| 15:23.35 | greycat | !buster-backports |
| 15:23.35 | dpkg | Some packages intended for Bullseye (Debian 11) but recompiled for use with Buster (Debian 10) can be found in the buster-backports repository. See http://backports.debian.org/Instructions/ . Ask me about <bdo>, <backports>. |
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| 15:24.36 | xoyi- | That wiki link is for Dell XPS though, I have Lenovo Thinkpad Carbon X1 on the other hand |
| 15:25.00 | zege | xoyi-: but they share the same Intel UHD graphics chip |
| 15:25.06 | xoyi- | I do have kernel version 5.9.6 from buster-backports |
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| 15:25.49 | greycat | xoyi-: Oh, OK. Then install the firmware-misc-nonfree package, and maybe some mesa things.... |
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| 15:30.27 | xoyi- | It seems that solved the issue, thanks! |
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| 15:37.41 | Kliment | I'm getting "mdadm: no arrays found in config file or automatically" for tens of seconds on startup after install |
| 15:38.04 | ratrace | Kliment: what exactly is your setup like? |
| 15:38.05 | xoyi- | there's just 1 glitch now related to X11/i3: when I run `startx` (which automatically runs `exec i3`), the screen goes black. It's only fixed after I switch to a new TTY and then back to the previous one. It seems like the resolution is off(?) |
| 15:38.17 | shtrb | Kliment, do you have LVM setup ? |
| 15:38.31 | Kliment | ratrace: default install with encryption |
| 15:38.42 | Kliment | on an nvme drive |
| 15:39.43 | ratrace | Kliment: do you even have mdadm raid there? |
| 15:40.17 | Kliment | not that I know of? I literally just installed this |
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| 15:45.21 | ratrace | Kliment: nothing to worry about then |
| 15:45.41 | Kliment | ratrace: any way to disable it? It takes tens of seconds on every boot |
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| 15:45.51 | ratrace | Kliment: it holds your boot? |
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| 15:46.32 | petn-randall | Kliment: You could remove mdadm if you don't need it. |
| 15:46.34 | Kliment | ratrace: yeah, and repeats every second |
| 15:46.54 | petn-randall | Kliment: Can you show use the output of `systemd-analyze critical-chain`? |
| 15:47.04 | shtrb | !paste |
| 15:47.04 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: https://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: https://imgbb.com/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): https://filebin.net or https://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>. |
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| 15:48.03 | Kliment | initramfs will attempt to resume from /dev/dm-1, says something after sudo apt remove mdadm |
| 15:48.28 | Kliment | ah, it's update-initramfs saying it |
| 15:49.25 | ratrace | I find it weird that initramfs/boot process even does something with mdadm, if there were no md devices in your rootfs stack |
| 15:50.06 | Kliment | id mdadm needed for luks maybe? |
| 15:50.08 | ratrace | Kliment: please do pastebin what petn-randall asked, and also maybe the output of lsblk |
| 15:50.19 | Kliment | yeah, hold on, on a different machine |
| 15:50.25 | ratrace | Kliment: mdadm is for multi-disk RAID arrays |
| 15:50.32 | shtrb | Kliment, no |
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| 15:51.40 | Kliment | !termbin |
| 15:51.40 | dpkg | you can paste to termbin.com from terminal via: cat /path/to/file | nc termbin.com 9999 |
| 15:52.06 | greycat | so much uuoc |
| 15:52.51 | Kliment | https://termbin.com/p9mv |
| 15:53.29 | petn-randall | greycat: hehehe :). Fix it! |
| 15:53.54 | Kliment | Also thanks so much everyone for helping me with this! |
| 15:54.29 | petn-randall | Kliment: Uninstall mdadm if you don't use software RAID. |
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| 15:55.11 | ratrace | I wouldn't, blindly without understanding why it thinks it has to be used. could be there's setup there we're not told about. |
| 15:55.26 | Kliment | ratrace: this is a fresh install |
| 15:55.29 | greycat | dpkg, no, termbin is <reply>you can paste to termbin.com from terminal via: nc termbin.com 9999 < /path/to/file |
| 15:55.29 | ratrace | a lsblk might shed some light |
| 15:55.30 | dpkg | okay, greycat |
| 15:55.32 | Kliment | ratrace: if it breaks I'll reinstall |
| 15:56.07 | Kliment | https://termbin.com/95rj |
| 15:56.08 | ratrace | Kliment: and you'd just get the same problem again, if it's not understood :) |
| 15:56.15 | Kliment | there's the lsblk |
| 15:56.32 | petn-randall | !termbin |
| 15:56.33 | dpkg | you can paste to termbin.com from terminal via: nc termbin.com 9999 < /path/to/file |
| 15:57.09 | ratrace | Kliment: hrm... no md devices. weird. I guess you can just uninstall it then. |
| 15:57.22 | ratrace | does it want to take out anything else? |
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| 15:59.30 | Kliment | ratrace: no |
| 15:59.55 | Kliment | ratrace: but the initramfs update says it will attempt to resume from "/dev/dm-1" |
| 16:00.47 | ratrace | that's for hibernation with encrypted swap methinks |
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| 16:01.00 | Kliment | ratrace: yeah, and I have encrypted swap |
| 16:02.06 | Kliment | okay, that worked, boot is way faster now |
| 16:02.45 | Kliment | thanks! |
| 16:02.51 | Kliment | lemme try hibernate |
| 16:04.21 | Kliment | works perfectly |
| 16:04.25 | Kliment | awesome, thanks everyone! |
| 16:05.50 | ratrace | so I suppose that's a bug in the installer which pulls in mdadm even though it's not needed |
| 16:06.09 | ratrace | and/or in initramfs-tools hooks |
| 16:06.36 | Kliment | well pulling it in is not the problem, but using it and having such a long timeout is |
| 16:07.19 | ratrace | it's a problem if initramfs hooks automatically enable it in initramfs just because it's installed in the system |
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| 16:11.25 | Kliment | Moving to debian after many many years of ubuntu |
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| 16:12.34 | shtrb | Kliment, would you mind please reporting this issue please ? |
| 16:12.50 | shtrb | via reportbug for example |
| 16:13.28 | Kliment | shtrb: I'm not sure I have enough information to do so, but I'll give it a try (got to run to post office first) |
| 16:15.27 | jelly | !installation report |
| 16:15.27 | dpkg | [installation report] http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch05s04#submit-bug |
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| 16:25.22 | grummund | Which man page would describe APT::Get::AutomaticRemove::Kernels ? |
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| 16:32.53 | jelly | apt.conf(5), grummund |
| 16:33.28 | jelly | in theory |
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| 16:33.42 | grummund | well that's what i thought too. |
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| 16:40.38 | jelly | where did you find a reference for that? |
| 16:43.57 | brigand | https://github.com/Debian/apt/blob/master/debian/NEWS apt (2.1.16) unstable; urgency=medium Automatically remove unused kernels on apt {dist,full}-upgrade. To revert to previous behavior, set APT::Get::AutomaticRemove::Kernels to false or pass --no-auto-remove to the command. apt-get remains unchanged. |
| 16:44.26 | quadrathoch2 | ,v apt |
| 16:44.27 | judd | Package: apt on amd64 -- jessie: 1.0.9.8.4; jessie-security: 1.0.9.8.6; stretch: 1.4.10; stretch-proposed-updates: 1.4.10; stretch-security: 1.4.10; buster: 1.8.2.1; buster-proposed-updates: 1.8.2.2; buster-security: 1.8.2.2; bullseye: 2.1.16; sid: 2.1.16 |
| 16:45.31 | quadrathoch2 | I assume itâs still not documented? |
| 16:45.45 | jelly | grummund, is it present the documentation for that version? I only checked in stable |
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| 16:51.08 | grummund | jelly: apt 2.1.16 |
| 16:51.41 | grummund | nothing with 'man apt.conf | grep -i kernel' |
| 16:51.53 | brigand | it's only mentioned in the source and news |
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| 16:51.57 | brigand | as of yet |
| 16:52.00 | grummund | ok, thanks. |
| 16:52.36 | grummund | so this is only for debian 11 ? |
| 16:52.50 | brigand | apt-private/private-install.cc lol |
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| 17:19.22 | switchnode | i'm trying to build some software with autotools. it depends on a third-party library, libzstd, which i have installed under ~/.local (this is a multi-user box on which i do not have root access). |
| 17:19.27 | switchnode | i have set PKG_CONFIG_PATH to ~/.local/lib/pkgconfig; autoconf successfully finds libzstd.pc there. however, the build fails with "error while loading shared libraries: libzstd.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory". |
| 17:19.36 | switchnode | `pkg-config libzstd --libs` outputs "-L<absolute path to ~>/.local//lib -lzstd"; the generated Makefile.in has the line "ZSTD_LIBS = @ZSTD_LIBS@"; the generated Makefile has the line "ZSTD_LIBS = -L<absolute path to ~>/.local//lib -lzstd", as expected. |
| 17:19.43 | switchnode | the compilation string printed by automake includes those flags, and there is definitely a libzstd.so.1 under ~/.local/lib (it's a symlink to libzstd.so.1.4.4 in the same directory). so why can't the linker find it? |
| 17:19.49 | switchnode | (i've also tried setting LDFLAGS directly to ~/.local/lib, but that didn't help.) |
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| 17:35.42 | azidhaka | hi everyone! what package change can cause finding group in /etc/group to fail? here's a strace: http://p.ip.fi/2x0b the group exists, but the app cannot find it |
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| 17:38.40 | jhutchins | azidhaka: Incorrect perrmissions? What is generating what error? |
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| 17:40.52 | azidhaka | jhutchins: its the kaspersky mail av/spam filter. can't find its group in /etc/group after some update, i am thinking libc |
| 17:41.17 | azidhaka | jhutchins: getent finds it, the user can read /etc/group as well |
| 17:41.23 | karlpinc | azidhaka: Or something updated nsswitch.conf or sssd.conf (or whatever their names are). |
| 17:41.49 | karlpinc | azidhaka: Well, if getent works then nsswitch/sssd is not an issue. |
| 17:42.01 | azidhaka | karlpinc: nsswitch is... group: compat systemd, tried putting "files" in front, no luck |
| 17:42.07 | jhutchins | azidhaka: The package is from them, not from Debian, right? |
| 17:42.40 | karlpinc | (restarting nscd never hurts, but I bet it does not help.) |
| 17:42.57 | azidhaka | jhutchins: yes, but it has been working for 2 years and some update in the last two months broke it |
| 17:43.08 | jhutchins | azidhaka: Just think of all the things that use libc and are not failing. |
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| 17:43.55 | azidhaka | jhutchins: the system is 64 bit and everything uses that libc, only that software is 32 and uses libc:i386 |
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| 17:44.18 | azidhaka | my question is if i am correct to look into libc for that types of problems |
| 17:44.22 | xoyi- | any ideas why network doesn't work (fresh Debian Buster installation) but only when I connect via WiFi? (other devices in the same WiFi work, and this doesn't seem a DNS issue because I can't either ping via IP) |
| 17:45.42 | karlpinc | xoyi-: ? Either the network/nic works or does not. What does "doesn't work" mean? |
| 17:45.54 | jhutchins | azidhaka: I'd start with the kaspersky forums. Is this a two year old package? What debian release are you on? |
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| 17:47.06 | karlpinc | xoyi-: Did you use the installer with firmware included? |
| 17:47.11 | karlpinc | !firmware images |
| 17:47.11 | dpkg | There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/ The images are "unofficial" because "official Debian" includes only 100% free software. They are otherwise identical to the normal installer images and prepared by the same Debian Developers. See <check iso>. |
| 17:47.17 | jhutchins | xoyi-: "doesn't work" is pretty vague. Have you checked for messages in dmesg? |
| 17:47.28 | azidhaka | jhutchins: buster, i've send a support ticket, but they are really slow in answering, and a package update caused the breakage, that's why i am asking here |
| 17:47.35 | xoyi- | karlpinc: I can connect to the network (via nmtui) but it seems like the network is down(?). For example, `ping 8.8.8.8` returns "Destination Host Unreachable" |
| 17:47.58 | azidhaka | someone might have experienced this |
| 17:48.22 | jhutchins | azidhaka: See if they have a support forum. |
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| 17:49.26 | azidhaka | jhutchins: i will, thanks! its an obscure problem |
| 17:50.05 | jhutchins | azidhaka: Make sure you're running their latest version. |
| 17:50.22 | azidhaka | jhutchins: it's the latest version. Will it be possible to see your nsswitch.conf, what does it have as resolution order for group: ? |
| 17:50.41 | jhutchins | azidhaka: Commercial software often doesn't get updates on all releases and distros. |
| 17:50.44 | xoyi- | I think the NIC works, since I can connect to the WiFi network via nmtui |
| 17:51.46 | jhutchins | Mine only has "compat". |
| 17:52.19 | azidhaka | jhutchins: it is supported, i've got paid support, but thought it will be faster to see which linux system update broke it |
| 17:52.44 | azidhaka | jhutchins: our mail server is running without av/spam protection right now |
| 17:53.42 | jhutchins | xoyi-: So what's the actual problem? How are you trying to connect that it fails? We don't know what you've done with your system. |
| 17:54.20 | xoyi- | jhutchins the problem is that there doesn't seem to be an internet connection (for this particular device only) |
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| 17:54.32 | xoyi- | For example, `ping 8.8.8.8` returns "Destination Host Unreachable" |
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| 17:54.54 | jhutchins | azidhaka: Most of us don't run paid software, we're pretty much all open source, but if you're handling mail for Windows you probably need it. |
| 17:55.05 | jhutchins | azidhaka: avg used to have a free package. |
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| 17:55.41 | azidhaka | jhutchins: that's the only paid software we use, everything else is open-source. And yes, that's handling mail for Windows workstations |
| 17:56.56 | jhutchins | xoyi-: So you're saying that this system connects to wifi, but you can't ping google. Can you ping other sites? Do you get dig/host replies? Can you ping devices on your local network? Is the correct gateway being assigned? |
| 17:56.56 | azidhaka | jhutchins: couldn't assemble open-source system which filters viruses/spam as well as this |
| 17:57.33 | karlpinc | xoyi-: xoyi- You need to try to ping your local gateway. |
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| 17:58.14 | jhutchins | azidhaka: Yeah, there aren't many projects. https://www.safetydetectives.com/blog/best-really-free-antivirus-for-linux/ |
| 17:58.50 | jhutchins | I don't recommend clam, the only thing it really does is satisfy audit requirements. Not worth the load. |
| 17:59.12 | azidhaka | jhutchins: yeah, nothing on that list except clam, which has laughable detection rate |
| 17:59.32 | xoyi- | jhutchins I can't even ping the local gateway. I'm suspecting that something's off with DHCP here |
| 18:02.42 | azidhaka | jhutchins: i've installed nscd and now i have some more interesting information |
| 18:05.55 | azidhaka | jhutchins: now it manages to resolve the group using nscd and runs |
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| 18:08.08 | jhutchins | Makes me suspect that maybe it was a permissions/user issue. Ah well, it works. "Fixed" costs a lot less than "why". |
| 18:08.38 | azidhaka | jhutchins: sudo-ing as the user, i am able to read /etc/group |
| 18:08.55 | greycat | azidhaka: if the service in question is started by systemd, it could have been started with the same modifications that buster's login uses, that breaks NIS until you install nscd or equivalent. Or it could be an AppArmor thing. |
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| 18:09.39 | greycat | But if you're not using NIS then... I guess the first one is a lot less likely. |
| 18:09.57 | azidhaka | greycat: it is using init.d script, which is started by systemd i guess. Also, doesn't have apparmor profile |
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| 18:11.32 | greycat | I very strongly doubt the same issue could arise from an init.d script. The config options in question are highly systemd specific. |
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| 18:12.01 | greycat | and anyway, if you're really just using flat files (/etc/group) then it's not this |
| 18:12.42 | azidhaka | greycat: yes, just flat files, nsswitch contains "compat systemd" for the groups |
| 18:13.20 | azidhaka | i thought "files" specifies to use /etc/group, is it "compat" in my case? |
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| 18:14.08 | jhutchins | azidhaka: That's what mine uses, but I'm on stretch. |
| 18:15.26 | azidhaka | compat is files + netgroups according to docs |
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| 18:20.07 | azidhaka | jhutchins: thanks a lot, your thoughts helped find a workaround |
| 18:25.49 | unixbsd | is eternal lands to be soon or later, free into the debian repository? |
| 18:27.29 | sney | unixbsd: you can find this out yourself, for any piece of software. a) is the license DFSG-free? b) is there a wnpp bug? |
| 18:28.25 | unixbsd | I saw. ... what an idea. this is not thinking about opensource community at all. |
| 18:28.41 | greycat | What? |
| 18:29.03 | unixbsd | EL with GNU would be ideal for all. |
| 18:30.02 | greycat | So, let's pretend for a brief moment that anyone in this entire channel other than you knows what "eternal lands" is. How does this make it OUR responsibility to discover its status within the Debian development framework for you? Why can't it be YOUR responsibility to find the information that you want? |
| 18:32.08 | unixbsd | after some time, people give their project to gnu licensing. |
| 18:32.22 | sney | wouldn't that be wonderful if it were true |
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| 18:34.46 | ratrace | people usually want to have something to eat, though, daily on their tables. |
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| 18:37.30 | Kliment | anyone know how to enable fingerprint authentication in testing? I have libpam-fprintd installed |
| 18:37.54 | karlpinc | !debian-next |
| 18:37.54 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc |
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| 18:38.09 | karlpinc | Kliment: See above if no one answers. |
| 18:38.29 | Kliment | karlpinc: did that. thanks |
| 18:39.58 | zutat | recovery tools for damaged gpt partition table? |
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| 18:41.39 | Filystyn | hello |
| 18:41.43 | Filystyn | I will try not to explode |
| 18:42.19 | ratrace | zutat: there's a verb missing in that sentence. but I'm gonna hazarad a guess about your question, and say that any partitioning tool is also a recovery, since gpt uses backup sectors. take a look at sgdisk for example. |
| 18:42.26 | Filystyn | I need to find apache module mod_limitipconn |
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| 18:43.01 | Kliment | ah, I needed to run sudo pam-auth-update |
| 18:43.57 | zutat | ratrace: thank you |
| 18:45.11 | Filystyn | It should be build in but. It is not |
| 18:45.14 | Filystyn | I need apache2-mod-limitipconn |
| 18:45.23 | Filystyn | where the fuck is it |
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| 18:46.46 | karlpinc | Kliment: File a bug. I think the package should do that for you.... (Could be wrong.) |
| 18:47.11 | Kliment | karlpinc: hmm, now I can't login |
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| 18:47.21 | karlpinc | !tell Filystyn about apt-file |
| 18:50.54 | frazzydee | I'm running debian buster, and I notice I have the following entry in my /etc/apt/sources.list.d, is this OK? "deb http://download.webmin.com/download/repository sarge contrib" |
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| 18:50.59 | frazzydee | not sure where that entry came from. |
| 18:52.05 | ratrace | well either you, or an impostor root, added it there |
| 18:52.26 | frazzydee | ratrace: Yes, could have been me. I don't remember how or why I added that in. Shouldn't it say buster not sarge? |
| 18:52.34 | frazzydee | Maybe some old install script. |
| 18:53.02 | ratrace | whether it's okay or not depends on whether you want to even attempt installing who knows what level of quality software from notoriously poor-security webmin's _sarge_ repo. |
| 18:53.37 | greycat | if it's truly a repository of sarge pkgs, it will probably not work very well |
| 18:53.56 | greycat | !webmin |
| 18:53.57 | dpkg | Webmin is a lame web-based interface for unsafe system administration for Unix. Check it out at http://webmin.com/ Remember, dondelelcaro *hates* webmin. "i'd rather sit on the floor shoving table knives into live electrical outlets than run webmin on an exposed server." Removed from Debian post-Sarge, see http://bugs.debian.org/343897 . The Debian package from webmin.com is of poor quality. See <free whcp> for alternatives. |
| 18:54.03 | frazzydee | honestly I don't even remember installing webmin. |
| 18:54.21 | Filystyn | Ok qos module did it |
| 18:54.23 | frazzydee | It must be used by some other program I have installed, perhaps znc or my rtorrent/rutorrent? |
| 18:54.26 | Filystyn | sorry for fuse |
| 18:54.41 | greycat | just because you have a repository in sources.list does not mean it was ever *used* |
| 18:54.57 | ratrace | frazzydee: if YOU don't remember why you added it...... I can do it for you. I have a crystall bal. That'll be $49999 payable in advance, tho |
| 18:55.19 | frazzydee | ratrace: lol |
| 18:55.31 | frazzydee | Don't need a crystal ball, I'm just expressing how weird I find it. |
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| 18:55.52 | greycat | If you don't use webmin, I would comment out the epository first thing. |
| 18:55.55 | ratrace | frazzydee: webmin is a (terrible) web admin panel like cpanel or plesk, but infinitely more bad. probably nothing to do with znc or rtorrent |
| 18:56.06 | greycat | Second thing, find out whether webmin is actually installed. |
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| 18:58.05 | frazzydee | sudo apt list --installed | grep webmin shows it is installed...oops |
| 18:58.34 | ratrace | frazzydee: is that a public internet facing server, or just your local, firewalled machine? |
| 18:58.49 | frazzydee | ratrace: I will tell you after I remove webmin |
| 18:58.53 | frazzydee | if that answers your question |
| 18:58.55 | ratrace | because if it's teh former... chances are it's pwnt. |
| 18:59.20 | frazzydee | ratrace: the former. |
| 18:59.34 | ratrace | ouch... |
| 18:59.36 | frazzydee | am I mining bitcoins for russia? |
| 18:59.57 | ratrace | maybe, maybe not, maybe it's a sleeper node, pwnt but inactive. |
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| 19:00.34 | ratrace | or maybe it's not pwnt at all. that's the problem with infosec |
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| 19:08.28 | jhutchins | frazzydee: Check top, check ps -ax, identify as many processes as you can. Disconnect from the net and see if anything changes. Look for odd directories. |
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| 19:09.59 | wobelinger | einen wunder schönen guten morgen |
| 19:09.59 | jhutchins | frazzydee: debsums can be useful, but it has to be installed _before_ exposure. Tripwire can be useful. rkhunter and chkrootkit may return false negatives and should be initially run from separate boot media. |
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| 19:12.47 | ratrace | no tool can be trusted if there's suspicion of pwnage. |
| 19:12.50 | jhutchins | wobelinger: Guten tag. |
| 19:12.52 | jhutchins | !de |
| 19:12.53 | dpkg | Deutschsprachige Hilfe bekommt ihr in #debian.de (auf irc.oftc.net, irc.freenode.net oder irc.belwue.de) - debian-user-german@lists.debian.org |
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| 19:13.05 | unixbsd | I just compiled eternal lands on amd64, it is very easy actually to compile. this project just deserve to be GNU, and free. I will make a little fork with little installer. |
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| 19:14.38 | ratrace | unixbsd: not under a different license tho |
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| 19:15.32 | greycat | What is its current license? |
| 19:16.02 | ratrace | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_Public_License |
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| 19:16.48 | greycat | which according to wikipedia is not DFSG-free |
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| 19:17.04 | ratrace | right. |
| 19:17.31 | greycat | #251983 |
| 19:17.32 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/251983 in libcwd (closed, sarge-ignore): «libcwd: QPL license is non-free; package should not be in main»; severity: serious; opened: 2004-06-01; last modified: 2004-10-14. |
| 19:18.26 | ratrace | what's worse, the game is under a bit modified QPL with content under a stricter, proprietary license. |
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| 19:18.31 | unixbsd | ratrace: should I use the very licensiing_ |
| 19:18.33 | unixbsd | ? |
| 19:18.50 | ratrace | unixbsd: what? |
| 19:18.53 | unixbsd | ratrace: *same licensing on gitlab? |
| 19:19.16 | ratrace | unixbsd: you may not change the license. and read it thoroughly if you're even permitted to fork it |
| 19:19.55 | unixbsd | I want to give a version for Debian AMD64... |
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| 19:20.28 | ratrace | unixbsd: you should contact the developer and ask them to relicense. becoming slightly OT here tho |
| 19:20.59 | unixbsd | OK, I will do my best. let s hope that this contact will give us a debian package. |
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| 19:24.55 | ratrace | oh look, sudo CVEs I've completely missed today.... |
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| 19:27.05 | jhutchins | So non-free is stuff that may be under an non-dfsg license, right? |
| 19:27.30 | ratrace | yup |
| 19:27.33 | unixbsd | Anyhow I upload on gitlab ;) |
| 19:27.47 | ratrace | requires at least permission to redist |
| 19:27.51 | greycat | You still need to be legally *allowed* to distribute the packages. |
| 19:28.20 | ratrace | unixbsd: does the license permit you to? |
| 19:28.22 | greycat | One of the primary reasons a license may be considered non-free is because it doesn't allow free redistribution of the package, or distribution of patched versions. |
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| 19:28.31 | epsilonKNOT | Hello |
| 19:28.44 | ratrace | epsilonKNOT: \o/ ltns! |
| 19:28.54 | epsilonKNOT | I wanted to submit a package for debian |
| 19:28.57 | epsilonKNOT | Yo ratratce |
| 19:28.58 | greycat | I don't know QPL. So you'd have to take it up with debian-legal or the copyright holder. |
| 19:29.14 | epsilonKNOT | Pardon my mobile typos |
| 19:29.38 | epsilonKNOT | So, like how do I submit a package to Debian? |
| 19:29.47 | ratrace | I'd definitely go with copyright holder's written permission, or maybe they're even willing to relicense. it's a very old game |
| 19:29.48 | epsilonKNOT | I don't see any ports tree or something |
| 19:31.46 | Mister00X | ratrace: What sudo CVE do you mean? |
| 19:32.22 | ratrace | epsilonKNOT: only DDs can upload methinks... you'd need a sponsor or something . https://www.debian.org/devel/join/newmaint |
| 19:33.07 | ratrace | !cve lookup CVE-2021-23239 |
| 19:33.07 | dpkg | Information about the security advisory CVE-2021-23239 may be found at https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2021-23239 |
| 19:33.22 | ratrace | !cve lookup CVE-2021-23240 |
| 19:33.22 | dpkg | Information about the security advisory CVE-2021-23240 may be found at https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2021-23240 |
| 19:33.37 | epsilonKNOT | I managed to get some thing and locally build a Debian package |
| 19:33.56 | ratrace | Mister00X: rather ... edge-case-y methinks |
| 19:34.08 | Mister00X | ratrace: didn't knew about that thanks |
| 19:34.49 | ratrace | they're fresh out the oven |
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| 19:36.19 | ratrace | epsilonKNOT: more resources here. I've been actually going through this from cover through cover and playing with building some packages for our company's in house software :: https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/ |
| 19:36.56 | greycat | !debian-mentors |
| 19:36.57 | dpkg | Find packaging help for the Debian project in #debian-mentors on irc.oftc.net. If the channel is invite-only it's because you missed it being on OFTC. |
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| 19:37.29 | epsilonKNOT | Gotcha |
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| 19:40.51 | jhutchins | Man, learning to build RPMs on CentOS was a total pain. They had a scripted chroot build that basically built a new server for each build. |
| 19:41.22 | jhutchins | There was no documentation, and trying to ask questions about the process would get you kick-banned. |
| 19:41.28 | ratrace | not a terrible idea. FreeBSD ports system "Poudriere" does the same with jails. clean build from scratch for each package |
| 19:41.52 | ratrace | makes sure no stray package or file or leftover or something pollutes the building |
| 19:42.57 | jhutchins | ratrace: It's not a horrible idea, unless you're in the build-tweak-build part of development. This was a little more than ten years ago, when kernel compiles were still used as benchmarks. Not as much horsepower as we have today. |
| 19:43.15 | jhutchins | RPM is also a heavier system to build for. |
| 19:43.39 | jhutchins | ratrace: Yeah, or that development environment you were using on the same box. |
| 19:43.53 | ratrace | right. |
| 19:45.35 | ratrace | build-tweak-build is okay if the framework is supporting it. don't remember if the RPM framework did .... whatwasit .... koji? last tiem I wrote a spec file and built RPMs was ... many orbits ago |
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| 19:46.47 | ratrace | from that standpoint building debs is easier. but the format is so complex compared to a single spec, .ebuild, or ports makefile |
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| 20:04.06 | jhutchins | !android |
| 20:04.06 | dpkg | Android is a Linux-based operating system for mobile devices. http://www.android.com/ #android on irc.freenode.net. For the related font family, ask me about <droid>. See also <adb> <lildebi> <mobile>. |
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| 20:54.55 | epsilonKNOT | Is there anyway for report bug to debug smtp? |
| 20:55.14 | epsilonKNOT | I'm not sure what is happening with no connection errors |
| 20:57.30 | jhutchins | epsilonKNOT: It's really not a debuging tool. |
| 20:57.44 | brigand | ,v smtp |
| 20:57.45 | judd | No package named 'smtp' was found in amd64. |
| 20:57.50 | jhutchins | epsilonKNOT: What did you try to do? How did you try to do it? What did you expect to happen? What happened instead? |
| 20:58.08 | jhutchins | brigand: It's a protocol used by several different packages. |
| 20:59.45 | sney | just turn up the debugging level on your MTA, and it will barf copious amounts of information into /var/log/mail.log |
| 21:00.29 | sney | (also, a lot of consumer ISPs will just block TCP/25 due to spambot activity, so if you're trying to host mail from your home computer that is likely the problem) |
| 21:02.09 | epsilonKNOT | jhutchins: just tried to report bug and it failed. Gimme sec will get error |
| 21:02.41 | sney | don't use reportbug for tech support issues, package maintainers are busy as it is |
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| 21:03.31 | aisha | yo |
| 21:03.43 | sney | hi |
| 21:03.50 | aisha | so i'm epsilonKNOT (just switched to webchat for easier typing) |
| 21:03.51 | greycat | sney: I'm guessing he hasn't got a working MTA set up... |
| 21:04.10 | aisha | error on reportbug - SMTP send failure: [Errno 101] Network is unreachable. You can retry, or save the report and exit. Do you want to retry [Y|n|q|?]? ? |
| 21:04.41 | jhutchins | epsilonKNOT: It has an off-line mode that doesn't require a mailer. |
| 21:04.59 | sney | ohh, I see what's going on. yeah, just export the text of the bug report and send it through your regular email client |
| 21:05.13 | aisha | i am able to send mails through thunderbird (from different computer) |
| 21:05.30 | aisha | jhutchins yea, i did that, but that is inconvenient to always (for future) |
| 21:05.54 | greycat | Then get email working. |
| 21:06.25 | aisha | ok, will do |
| 21:07.03 | aaro | doesn't postfix get installed by default? |
| 21:07.16 | sney | exim4 typically |
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| 21:07.49 | sney | though there are ways that it can get skipped, or environments where the default wouldn't be able to send mail to internet addresses |
| 21:08.13 | aisha | this sounds crazy |
| 21:08.22 | aisha | cant it just use an external email server? |
| 21:08.50 | sney | of course, that's in the menus somewhere |
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| 21:09.39 | sney | see 'man reportbug' and look for the 'smtphost' option. you should also be able to set this in reportbug's config file. |
| 21:10.18 | greycat | aaro: exim4 is installed if and only if it's brought in by something that requires a mail-transport-agent, typically cron |
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| 21:11.50 | greycat | In past versions of Debian, cron and exim/exim4 were installed by default, and the user was prompted for basic MTA configuration during the installation. At some point, Debian stopped doing it that way. So now there's a shit-ton of Debian systems out there without a working MTA installed. |
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| 21:13.29 | Jen_smiles | i have an application that i installed ( awscliv2 ) and it works under my user ( if i do a "which aws" it give me /user/local/bin/aws ) |
| 21:13.44 | Jen_smiles | but if i run it as root it won't work, and "which aws" can't locate it |
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| 21:13.55 | Jen_smiles | is that by design for security reasons ? |
| 21:14.16 | sney | no, it's likely a PATH issue |
| 21:14.33 | sney | did you mean /usr/local/bin? was 'user' a typo? |
| 21:14.53 | Jen_smiles | sorry! yes that was a typo |
| 21:15.13 | sney | ok, so become root and check the output of 'echo $PATH' |
| 21:15.16 | Jen_smiles | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:15.37 | Jen_smiles | as soon as you said $path i checked that, i'm just going over it now |
| 21:16.08 | greycat | Some of the ways that you can become root will change your PATH variable, and some of them will not. |
| 21:16.36 | greycat | But even if your PATH is changed, it's odd that /usr/local/bin isn't in the new one. |
| 21:16.39 | sney | indeed |
| 21:16.47 | sney | it could also be that it's not set as +x for everyone |
| 21:17.07 | sney | though anything in /usr/local should still be owned by root unless it was installed strangely |
| 21:18.42 | greycat | The three obvious ways to become root with a root-specific PATH are direct console login, sudo -s (or su if configured with ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes), or sudo -i (or "su -"). I think all 3 of those should give you a PATH with /usr/local/bin in it, though. |
| 21:19.21 | sney | yes, particularly if it's already in the PATH of the user that you're sudo'ing from |
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| 21:21.27 | greycat | Direct console login, sudo -i, su -, or ssh root@ all give you a login shell as root, so it picks up PATH from /etc/profile and/or /root/.profile. The one in /etc/profile definitely has PATH with /usr/local/bin, and at least *my* /root/.profile doesn't touch PATH, although I'm not 100% sure it's a default .profile. |
| 21:21.46 | Jen_smiles | i'm basically logging in as a non-root user, then doing a "sudo su" |
| 21:21.54 | sney | haha, |
| 21:21.56 | sney | !sudo su |
| 21:21.56 | dpkg | Typing "sudo su" is like typing "cat file | cat". If you want a non-login shell as root, just use "sudo -s". If you want a login shell, "sudo -i". There's no need to run two different superuser-elevation programs chained back to back. See also <buster su> |
| 21:22.00 | greycat | !sudo su |
| 21:22.02 | sney | but still this probably isn't the problem |
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| 21:23.02 | greycat | In that case, sudo is setting the PATH as it sees fit, and then invoking a non-login su, which will either leave PATH untouched (default behavior), or overwrite PATH if you configured ALWAYS_SET_PATH in /etc/default/su. |
| 21:23.28 | sney | indeed, on a debian system with no PATH tweaks: https://paste.debian.net/1180712/ |
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| 21:24.26 | sney | My theory is now that this is amazon being clever/stupid in their packaging decisions |
| 21:24.47 | Jen_smiles | ya, this is a brand new linux AMI |
| 21:24.56 | Jen_smiles | AWS AMI i should say |
| 21:24.57 | sney | Jen_smiles: what's the output of 'ls -l /usr/local/bin/aws' |
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| 21:25.43 | Jen_smiles | the output of that is : /usr/local/bin/aws -> /usr/local/aws-cli/v2/current/bin/aws |
| 21:26.24 | sney | Jen_smiles: thanks, but we are looking for the permissions too. please don't redact parts of the command output we ask for. |
| 21:26.39 | sney | Jen_smiles: in this case, provide the whole output for that target file as well |
| 21:26.43 | Jen_smiles | ohhh sorry about that |
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| 21:26.55 | Jen_smiles | lrwxrwxrwx. 1 root root 37 Jan 11 20:09 /usr/local/bin/aws -> /usr/local/aws-cli/v2/current/bin/aws |
| 21:27.10 | sney | and the target as well? |
| 21:27.12 | Jen_smiles | and you're right, my $PATH for root does not have /usr/local/bin in it |
| 21:27.19 | sney | what, that's insane |
| 21:27.45 | sney | ok, this is amazon's fault. update /etc/profile and send amazon an email about not changing defaults that they don't understand |
| 21:27.51 | greycat | That's the part that intrigues me. Can you figure out why that happened? Did someone put PATH=... in your /root/.profile or some other file? |
| 21:27.52 | sney | next |
| 21:28.04 | Jen_smiles | after doing "sudo -s" my $PATH is ==> /sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin |
| 21:28.23 | greycat | That is not normal for Debian. |
| 21:29.00 | greycat | sudo -s on my system (buster) gives /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin |
| 21:29.03 | Jen_smiles | our AWS account is so large we have 11 TAMs assigned to us, so I can get an answer on that in an hour, and sure I can ask |
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| 21:30.11 | sney | the only possible explanation I can think of is that they *didn't* want you to run this /usr/local/bin stuff as root. |
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| 21:30.49 | sney | this is still a dumb way to accomplish that, but it may have an ostensibly security-related justification, so you may want to check before doing it anyway |
| 21:31.29 | Jen_smiles | is "sudo -s" over "sudo su" a standard that should be followed on just debian or all linux distros ? |
| 21:31.40 | sney | use sudo, or use su. don't use both. |
| 21:32.12 | sney | 'sudo su' is a convention that was dreamed up by morons writing ubuntu docs ~15 years ago. it belongs in the garbage. |
| 21:32.28 | Jen_smiles | thanks so much for your help greycat and sney, i'll let you know what our TAMs say about this |
| 21:32.34 | ratrace | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:32.56 | sney | ratrace: I know it persists, that's just when it first started showing up. |
| 21:33.16 | sney | ubuntu forumers will cargo cult until they die if you let 'em |
| 21:33.22 | ratrace | he |
| 21:33.24 | ratrace | heh |
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| 21:35.33 | jhutchins | Jen_smiles: sudo -s or sudo -i |
| 21:35.46 | sney | !sudo |
| 21:35.46 | dpkg | Sudo, aka Substitute User DO, is a common way to give limited super user privileges to specific users. Not the magic "do what I want" button. Good in scripts with "username ALL = NOPASSWD: /some/program". See <sudo path>, <visudo>, <sudoers>. http://wiki.debian.org/sudo |
| 21:36.25 | jhutchins | I think sudo is pretty consistent across distros. Su wasn't, but I think most conform to the RHEL standard these days (su -). |
| 21:37.18 | ratrace | too bad sudo insults have to be compiled in, and not just a config option |
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| 21:57.17 | aisha | user not found in sudoers file, proceeding to throw banana grenades and wipe them from the face of the earth |
| 21:57.41 | noisemaker | What's the name of the package to tweak the mouse pad of a laptop ? |
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| 21:58.12 | ratrace | aisha: moar raciss with correct flags :) |
| 21:58.31 | aisha | ooof |
| 21:59.06 | sney | noisemaker: there used to be a 'synclient' but I don't think it works anymore since the switch to libinput. you should some controls in your DE settings widget at least |
| 22:00.41 | noisemaker | At ubuntu old version I didn't need to press the pad to make the click, I just needed to tap for it, so what I need to config ? |
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| 22:02.07 | ratrace | sounds familiar from GNOME and/or KDE settings. if you're using those DEs, look in their settings panel |
| 22:02.29 | Kliment | Is there a reason the blender package in unstable is many versions behind upstream? |
| 22:02.55 | noisemaker | ratrace: I was using xfce too |
| 22:03.25 | ratrace | noisemaker: same advice |
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| 22:04.03 | noisemaker | ratrace: well, yeah, I did, I can't find the setting :) |
| 22:04.06 | sney | Kliment: it's not clear, there doesn't seem to be a bug about it. common reasons can be maintainer mia, missing new dependencies, upstream license changes |
| 22:04.26 | aisha | how long does it take for package to appear in mentors package listing? |
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| 22:05.26 | ratrace | aisha: you'll have more luck with debian dev on OFTC |
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| 22:05.36 | aisha | thanks :) |
| 22:05.45 | sney | ratrace: aisha is way ahead of you, and posted the same question in both channels simultaneously. |
| 22:06.04 | ratrace | as long as she knows where to ask best :) |
| 22:06.51 | epsilonKNOT | This process is a bit more complex than gentoo and openbsd |
| 22:07.09 | ratrace | a weeeeeeeeeee bit more complex, yea. |
| 22:07.12 | epsilonKNOT | Especially the packaging workdlow |
| 22:07.20 | ratrace | not as simple as a github PR for gentoo :) |
| 22:07.23 | sney | it's powerful, so it can be complex, yes. you get used to it. |
| 22:08.34 | ratrace | then again the QA criteria are far stricter on debian, which is good as that makes debian debian. |
| 22:09.00 | sney | Kliment: aha, it's because the debian package is the 2.83 LTS version, rather than mainline. see https://www.blender.org/download/lts/ | https://tracker.debian.org/media/packages/b/blender/changelog-2.83.5dfsg-5 |
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| 22:12.32 | Kliment | I see |
| 22:12.42 | Kliment | Is there a way to get the current one? |
| 22:13.01 | ratrace | yes, via snaps or flatpaks |
| 22:13.17 | Kliment | snaps are the reason I moved to debian... |
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| 22:13.25 | Kliment | I think they're the worst idea ever |
| 22:13.32 | ratrace | then no blender for you. |
| 22:13.48 | Kliment | I used ubuntu for the past 15 years |
| 22:14.02 | ratrace | now... it's one thing when it's forced and defaulted to like ubuntu, and quite another where you have the _option_ to use them, and no better alternatives. |
| 22:14.11 | ratrace | that said, maybe there's flatpak, if you dislike snapd |
| 22:14.16 | Kliment | Well, I'm uncomfortable with the snap ecosystem |
| 22:15.21 | ratrace | or maybe you can just download and unpack the tarball: https://www.blender.org/download/ |
| 22:15.38 | Kliment | on ubuntu I use a number of ppas for applications I need to be up to date on, and it updates in a sane way with the rest of the system |
| 22:15.39 | sney | you could probably use uupdate to update the debian package too |
| 22:15.40 | ratrace | ,v glibc |
| 22:15.41 | judd | No package named 'glibc' was found in amd64. |
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| 22:16.01 | ratrace | ,v libc6 |
| 22:16.02 | judd | Package: libc6 on amd64 -- jessie: 2.19-18+deb8u10; jessie-security: 2.19-18+deb8u10; stretch-security: 2.24-11+deb9u1; stretch: 2.24-11+deb9u4; buster: 2.28-10; bullseye: 2.31-9; sid: 2.31-9 |
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| 22:16.44 | Nemo9 | hey |
| 22:17.22 | sney | hi |
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| 22:17.39 | Kliment | ratrace: the forcing of it is not what bothers me - I mean apt is effectively forced on debian too. What bothers me is the technical design of snaps - single source, severe limitations on functionaluty, and really terrible performance |
| 22:18.11 | ratrace | try the tarball then |
| 22:18.17 | Kliment | ratrace: I might just |
| 22:18.25 | Kliment | ratrace: thanks! |
| 22:18.28 | ratrace | np |
| 22:18.43 | Kliment | what is this uupdate thing? |
| 22:18.46 | Kliment | !uupdate |
| 22:18.46 | dpkg | uupdate (in the <devscripts> package) upgrades a source code package from an upstream revision, or e.g. if the newest foo in debian is 1.2, and upstream is at 1.4: apt-get source foo; wget -nd http://foo.org/foo-1.4.tar.gz; cd foo-1.2; uupdate ../foo-1.4.tar.gz Ask me about <package recompile>. |
| 22:19.11 | Kliment | interesting |
| 22:19.29 | sney | careful, it's the gateway drug to actually being a debian maintainer :P |
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| 22:39.12 | Kliment | oh yeah, what's the recommended way to add a third party repo's key now that apt-key is being deprecated? |
| 22:39.37 | sney | stick it in /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d afaik |
| 22:39.44 | sney | though apt-key does still work |
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| 22:45.11 | Kliment | sney: thanks! |
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| 22:57.55 | jhutchins | I'd love to see Arthur get more involved in this than facebook posts, but at his age he's entitled to do as little as he likes. |
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| 23:00.08 | jhutchins | Um, needless to say, that was meant for a local channel. |
| 23:00.59 | jhutchins | "Arthur" is Arthur is Arthur Benson, who argued Brown vs. Topeka Board of Education. I do tech support for him. |
| 23:01.07 | jhutchins | He's still working, but not much. |
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| 23:49.44 | jammz | anyone know what you're supposed to do to resolve java dependencies? I got a java application, installed default-jre, and it gives me dependency errors, like: pathvisio.jar!/org.apache.commons.discovery_0.2.0.v201004190315.jar failed to start. |
| 23:49.45 | jammz | org.osgi.framework.BundleException: Unresolved constraint in bundle org.apache.commons.discovery [12]: Unable to resolve 12.0: missing requirement [12.0] osgi.ee; (&(osgi.ee=JavaSE)(version=1.4.0)) |
| 23:50.05 | jammz | this is the software I'm trying to run: https://pathvisio.github.io/downloads |
| 23:50.15 | jammz | (chemical pathway chart creator thing) |
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| 23:52.50 | themill | Their docs say that it only works with java 8 with is not a good start... that's so old it's not even in Debian stable. |
| 23:52.56 | jammz | oh, good eye |
| 23:53.07 | jammz | (for bold text) |
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| 23:54.06 | themill | :) |
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| 23:56.03 | themill | From memory, it's possible to install openjdk-8-jdk from stretch on a buster system, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend that. A stretch chroot (desktop type schroot) with its dependencies installed in it might be the simplest |
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