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| 00:24.51 | dbristow | What is the package name of llvm/clang so that it will install everything I need to set up LLVM, I'd like the packaged version, not a custom repo |
| 00:25.34 | dbristow | I'd like to install all the distro packages for whichever languages LLVM currently supports, presumably at least C and C++ |
| 00:25.43 | dbristow | And their associated libraries and such |
| 00:26.33 | sney | hmm, looks like it's probably clang-tools |
| 00:27.12 | dvs | is glad it's not crang-tools |
| 00:27.23 | sney | ,i clang-tools |
| 00:27.38 | sney | ah, no bot. |
| 00:28.11 | H-var | I have an issue with debian - it keeps on permanently locking up at random times. How can I track down the source of the problem? |
| 00:29.19 | dbristow | Hmmm, I had to install clang as well. |
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| 00:31.22 | sney | for the gcc stack the metapackage is 'build-essential' - it doesn't seem like there's an equivalent for clang/llvm |
| 00:32.56 | dbristow | sney: Ya, I was expecting that there would be a similar metapackage for llvm |
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| 00:33.57 | sney | H-var: try to make it less random. test things and see if you can reproduce crashes or similar symptoms. and maybe stick something like rsyslog on a rpi so you can collect your logs on a separate machine. |
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| 00:35.49 | sney | H-var: and I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but intermittent system lockups can be a sign of a hardware problem. |
| 00:36.42 | dbristow | H-var: You could try running memtest86 for a while, see if the hardware is stable |
| 00:36.55 | Tenkawa | clang isnt a build-essential |
| 00:37.03 | Tenkawa | thats why its not listed |
| 00:37.41 | Tenkawa | build-essential are build-essential for "core debian" |
| 00:37.55 | sney | nobody was saying it was |
| 00:38.22 | sney | "similar" or "equivalent" does not mean "clang should be in b-e" |
| 00:39.38 | Tenkawa | sney: I was just cofirming you were correct as well... |
| 00:39.57 | Tenkawa | they do update the metapackages quite often in unstable |
| 00:40.15 | Tenkawa | there sometimes are new ones |
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| 00:43.14 | superstar64 | can someone explain to me why `.deb` files are `.ar` files that contain `.tar` files? why have archive files inside archive files? |
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| 00:43.53 | H-var | sney it doesn't lock up while idling |
| 00:43.57 | H-var | tested 24hrs |
| 00:44.07 | Tenkawa | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deb_(file_format) |
| 00:44.11 | Tenkawa | :) |
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| 00:44.32 | H-var | but when I leave it with the apps running constantly, and taking up to 50% cpu at all times, that's when it locks up |
| 00:44.40 | H-var | probably an overheating issue? |
| 00:44.42 | Tenkawa | superstar64: there ya go |
| 00:44.48 | dvs | H-var: but memtest is doing something so it isn't idling |
| 00:45.07 | Tenkawa | H-var: what kind of machine? |
| 00:45.20 | superstar64 | that doesn't explain why |
| 00:45.38 | superstar64 | why not just a single tar file for a package? |
| 00:45.44 | H-var | mini pc. It's beelink with an atom cpu inside |
| 00:46.00 | Tenkawa | superstar64: because they felt like it? |
| 00:46.16 | zykotick9 | superstar64: <channeling crystal ball> note a tar file isn't "compressed" its just a collection of files. ar is a compression "I believe". |
| 00:46.46 | Tenkawa | zykotick9: I just pasted a article with the entire structure |
| 00:47.14 | Tenkawa | H-var: out of curiosity... whats your sysctl -a | grep swappiness ? |
| 00:48.02 | Tenkawa | if its pushing the vm off to swap a lot that could push the machine fairly harrd |
| 00:48.06 | Tenkawa | er hard |
| 00:48.09 | H-var | integrated sd card as a storage device. I've actually already created a return request on amazon because of this issue. From my experience, it usually overheating, and bad cpu management that causes lockups |
| 00:48.17 | Tenkawa | even if its not doing too much |
| 00:48.54 | superstar64 | so it because they wanted to allow for an uncompressed control archive and a compressed data archive? |
| 00:49.00 | superstar64 | or other combinations? |
| 00:49.57 | Tenkawa | superstar64: the explaination on the manpage here gives more context: |
| 00:49.59 | Tenkawa | https://manpages.debian.org/unstable/dpkg-dev/deb.5.en.html |
| 00:50.25 | H-var | tenkawa: command not found |
| 00:50.48 | Tenkawa | H-var: you got to use sudo |
| 00:50.55 | superstar64 | "File sizes are limited to 10 ASCII decimal digits, allowing for up to approximately 9536.74 MiB member files" |
| 00:50.55 | superstar64 | this seems future proof |
| 00:51.13 | H-var | tenkawa: 60 |
| 00:51.59 | Tenkawa | H-var: try editing /etc/sysctl.conf and setting that down to like 10 and run sudo sysctl -p |
| 00:52.14 | Tenkawa | lte it run for a little while and see if the tepm changes |
| 00:52.22 | Tenkawa | er temp |
| 00:53.01 | H-var | I think I cannot recommend intel to anyone anymore, especially atom cpu. I will change it with ryzen 5 3550H. |
| 00:53.05 | H-var | mini pc |
| 00:53.21 | Tenkawa | we have to tweak stuff like this a lot for non-x86 soc's |
| 00:53.51 | Tenkawa | to tune every ounce we can get out of them and reduce heat |
| 00:54.44 | H-var | you can order a ryzen 5 3550H mini pc for 240$ from China, + I'll take 16gb 2400mhz ddr4 sodimm ram for 40$, and 1tb nvme drive for 87$. |
| 00:54.52 | Tenkawa | my last mini-itx was probably 10+ years ago now |
| 00:55.31 | Tenkawa | my current non-mac x86 is a 12 core hp laptop i7 |
| 00:55.34 | Tenkawa | :) |
| 00:56.15 | Tenkawa | er 12 thread |
| 00:56.20 | H-var | tenkawa I think it's the nano-itx platform |
| 00:56.33 | Tenkawa | oh nano.. those were fun |
| 00:56.39 | H-var | the mini pc format is usually within 15cm box limits |
| 00:56.59 | Tenkawa | pain in the back to work on though |
| 00:58.32 | H-var | you should exercise then |
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| 00:59.11 | H-var | don't stay with your back bent for too long |
| 01:02.16 | Tenkawa | lol |
| 01:02.22 | H-var | ryzen 5 3550H cpu is actually insane - it's using so little power, it can be placed into a mini pc computer (35w), and it gives out almost 91% of power of an intel core i7 8700k desktop cpu (95w), and if you want to save on power even more, you can take ryzen 5 3500U which is only 15w, and reaches up to 80% of the mentioned intel cpu |
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| 01:02.55 | Tenkawa | doesnt even want to think how much this behemoth is using |
| 01:02.59 | H-var | on both, single core, and multicore tests |
| 01:03.15 | Tenkawa | nvidia 6gb dedicated ram vid card |
| 01:03.26 | Tenkawa | on a laptop.. 2 turbine fans |
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| 01:04.23 | Tenkawa | (yes its a gaming laptop originally.. although I bought it for development) |
| 01:04.50 | growly | hi everyone, i'm having a problem with the installer. I get "no kernel modules found" when trying to install and subsequently my network card driver is not loaded, so I cannot continue installation. the module i need is e1000e (common). i've tried a testing (daily release) netinst image, a testing (bullseye alpha 3) netinst image, a testing (daily release) DVD image, and the 10.7 netinst image. all do the |
| 01:04.56 | growly | same thing |
| 01:06.50 | sney | growly: how did you create the usb? many common tools (rufus, etcher) will mangle the installer and can create the problem you describe |
| 01:07.37 | Tenkawa | sney: this sounds like proprietary firmware blob missing |
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| 01:07.49 | Tenkawa | isnt intel e1000e non-free? |
| 01:07.53 | sney | Tenkawa: "no kernel modules found" is not the firmware error, no. |
| 01:07.54 | slop | hi all <3 |
| 01:08.06 | Tenkawa | good point |
| 01:08.19 | Tenkawa | man I'm getting sleepy sloppy early |
| 01:08.21 | sney | 'modinfo e1000e' shows no Firmware headers eitehr |
| 01:08.50 | Tenkawa | i can tell a storm is coming in |
| 01:08.56 | Tenkawa | its hitting me hard |
| 01:09.56 | Tenkawa | surprised he got ths far with a broke write though.. |
| 01:10.39 | sney | it's not like an unsynced write, the rufus tool unpacks the iso and recreates it. so all the pieces are there but not in the way d-i expects. |
| 01:11.10 | Tenkawa | yeah and if it wasnt synced possibly before eject too |
| 01:11.40 | Tenkawa | thats why I always just dd and be done |
| 01:12.43 | sney | install guide says to use cp, but that and dd and cat all work fine, win32diskimager is the rec for those coming from windows. or in short, don't use a tool that modifies the image. |
| 01:12.56 | Tenkawa | cp really?? |
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| 01:13.05 | Tenkawa | that seems very bad |
| 01:13.28 | sney | I think the installer team or the debian-cd team should probably consider distributing the images as *.img instead of *.iso, so this wouldn't be an issue |
| 01:13.43 | Tenkawa | indeed |
| 01:13.45 | sney | why? it just copies the bits to the flash drive. no fuss. cp debian-foo.iso /dev/sdX;sync |
| 01:14.10 | Tenkawa | because cp "itself" actually has different io backend than dd |
| 01:14.20 | Tenkawa | to the underlying os |
| 01:14.29 | Tenkawa | it "can" do different things |
| 01:14.48 | Tenkawa | especially once you get into filesystems |
| 01:15.00 | Tenkawa | thats where cp can burn you |
| 01:15.08 | sney | sure, and this isn't a filesystem operation. :) |
| 01:15.22 | Tenkawa | it still has to follow the rules |
| 01:15.32 | Tenkawa | its still block io |
| 01:16.52 | slop | Hi all, I have a new debian install thats hanging on AMD drivers/firmware - how do you recommend getting those? |
| 01:17.01 | sney | !firmware image |
| 01:17.01 | dpkg | There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/ The images are "unofficial" because "official Debian" includes only 100% free software. They are otherwise identical to the normal installer images and prepared by the same Debian Developers. See <check iso>. |
| 01:17.13 | slop | <3 |
| 01:17.36 | Tenkawa | cheers for now.. time to go get some rest and grumble at this snowstorm |
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| 01:17.45 | slop | lucky to get snow. |
| 01:17.52 | sney | if the hardware is newer than what's reasonably supported by the 4.19 kernel, you may need to take a different approach, but try the firmware image first. |
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| 01:18.56 | slop | thank you, I spent like 3 hours RTFM'ing and was like ok. I give up. Ill ask |
| 01:19.49 | sney | the debian-www team clearly doesn't spend any time in the support channels, that's for sure. :) |
| 01:20.40 | slop | Im an idiot most days so was likely right under my nose. |
| 01:21.08 | arya | quit |
| 01:21.10 | slop | I tried quite a few things, changing grub to single then trying to apt-get from there |
| 01:21.37 | slop | the guides are GREAT if you can get network access |
| 01:22.12 | slop | like, it showed what was needed step by step but I couldnt get a terminal with access :D |
| 01:22.21 | growly | @sney - thanks for your reply; i did `cp /path/to/image /dev/sda` where /dev/sda is my flash drive block device |
| 01:22.27 | sney | yeah, the installer environment doesn't give you much. |
| 01:22.31 | slop | was trying to add non-free and contrib and go that route |
| 01:22.33 | sney | growly: did you 'sync' afterwards? |
| 01:22.57 | growly | i did a reboot; i expected it to block on sync anyway? |
| 01:23.29 | sney | reboot should sync, but I always do it manually for any removable devices |
| 01:24.18 | growly | hmmm |
| 01:24.39 | growly | well i just did it again and followed up with sync, which returned instantly, so i'm not sure if it's worth retrying |
| 01:24.59 | growly | but it seems weird to me that all four of these are broken in the same way |
| 01:25.27 | sney | e1000e is definitely in the buster installer and doesn't require extra firmware, so the problem is with *something* at your end |
| 01:25.37 | growly | interesting |
| 01:25.58 | sney | how many times have you reused that particular flash drive? got another one? |
| 01:26.15 | growly | i used it a couple of days ago no problem. maybe if i blow away the partition table or use dd |
| 01:26.41 | growly | oh interesting |
| 01:28.27 | sney | there's a reason those things are 2 for $5 in the checkout at staples, they're not expected to last. dd or wipefs isn't going to do anything that cp to the device didn't already do. |
| 01:29.59 | slop | :D tgats great |
| 01:30.02 | slop | thats* |
| 01:30.34 | slop | 32 gib devices for 5.99 and I am like I MUST BUY AT LEAST 3 |
| 01:31.10 | growly | it strikes me as weird that the flash drive is 16GB, but parted gives me "the driver descriptor says the physical block size is 2048 bytes, but Linux says it is 512 bytes", and reports 64 GB |
| 01:31.21 | growly | very weird |
| 01:31.43 | sney | that sounds like one of the bootleg ones that used electrical tricks to lie about the size |
| 01:31.44 | cjoke | howto disable sddm on boot ? |
| 01:32.18 | sney | cjoke: systemctl disable sddm. or if you want to switch to a different display manager, I think it's dpkg-reconfigure display-manager |
| 01:33.00 | growly | ok this weirdness only occurs _after_ i cp the image on |
| 01:33.06 | cjoke | sney: I want to boot in text, as I configured in grub, but mate and debian is new to me, I did look in systemctl and I thought I had to run --system. |
| 01:33.25 | sney | cjoke: when you run systemctl as root, --system is the default. |
| 01:34.17 | sney | for more about disabling things in systemd, this blog post is nice: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/three-levels-of-off |
| 01:34.49 | robobox | heh wikipedia is 20 years old |
| 01:34.51 | growly | does everyon still hate systemd or have we moved on now? |
| 01:34.56 | cjoke | sney: it dont recognize sddm as a operation :/ |
| 01:34.59 | robobox | https://en.wikipedia.org/static/images/project-logos/enwiki20.png |
| 01:35.24 | robobox | on desktop? fine, it's okay |
| 01:35.25 | cjoke | sney: I run debian in libvirt kvm |
| 01:35.29 | robobox | on servers? no |
| 01:35.32 | sney | cjoke: make sure you typed 'systemctl disable sddm' and not 'systemctl sddm disable' |
| 01:35.33 | cjoke | sney: thats why ? |
| 01:36.13 | cjoke | sney: ouf, soz. its late, I should go to bed, but Im so worked up now :) |
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| 01:36.17 | cjoke | Thanks! :) <3 |
| 01:36.45 | sney | growly: most peoples' reasons for hating systemd were stupid, while there are some legitimate criticisms, the stupid reasons never really stop coming around. it's not as bad as it was ~6 years ago though. |
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| 01:37.51 | growly | haha ok |
| 01:38.32 | growly | ok i will now try a different flash drive |
| 01:42.53 | robobox | yeah it's gotten better |
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| 01:47.43 | growly | narrator: that was not the problem |
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| 01:48.37 | cjoke | sney: systemd, dbus and mpris is my only friends now when Im using qtile wm :) |
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| 01:49.13 | gholinbrown | a concerning message showed up during boot today |
| 01:49.17 | cjoke | and it is so gadamn fast :) love it. |
| 01:49.22 | gholinbrown | [Started] game server for board games like GtkAtlantic |
| 01:49.30 | gholinbrown | i have absolutely no games installed and this is a brand new deb10 install |
| 01:50.23 | robobox | what packages/tasks did you install |
| 01:50.25 | sney | gholinbrown: sounds like you have monopd installed, there are some metapackages that might have pulled it in |
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| 01:51.09 | gholinbrown | boost, mono, build essential, emacs, vim |
| 01:52.03 | sney | if you install aptitude, you can run 'aptitude why monopd' and find out how it was installed |
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| 01:53.01 | gholinbrown | thanks i'm just going to purge mono. |
| 01:53.15 | sney | monopd is not related to mono, despite the name. see 'apt show monopd'. |
| 01:53.40 | sney | but maybe you did something like 'apt install mono*' accidentally. |
| 01:53.59 | gholinbrown | i think i did. |
| 01:54.14 | sney | hungry globs, heh |
| 01:54.30 | gholinbrown | i wanted the sec certs . the actual software is just icing |
| 01:57.00 | gholinbrown | shux. appears i must install mono for those anyway |
| 01:59.10 | gholinbrown | btw it would be nice if password managers didn't require deps. for example if you acquire the debian dvd, and install offline. then you find out you can't access your passwords without internet, that's not fun |
| 02:00.36 | sney | just one of those things you have to plan ahead for, I suppose. dvd1 has a huge number of packages but it can't contain everything. |
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| 02:01.45 | gholinbrown | sure but password manager stores all your passwords. including those for vpns/proxies |
| 02:02.40 | sney | only you can prevent catch-22s in your own environment |
| 02:02.43 | gholinbrown | so it's actually asking users to connect potentially through a bad channel, just to gets the deps for none other than the password manager |
| 02:02.57 | gholinbrown | yeah pencil paper sney but a password manager come on now |
| 02:03.10 | sney | if you have a specific bug report against a package, file it |
| 02:03.44 | gholinbrown | does debian have a native password manager? |
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| 02:05.41 | sney | pypass, keepass, pass are in the archive, there may be others; debian gives you choices, you build your systems. |
| 02:06.23 | gholinbrown | do you know a command to auto-snatch up all deps for one of those packages? |
| 02:06.49 | sney | auto...snatch? |
| 02:06.52 | sney | !refcard |
| 02:06.52 | dpkg | A short reference of Debian commands - quite useful for someone new to Debian - can be found at http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/refcard/refcard.en.pdf and packaged for Debian as debian-refcard. See also <grounding>, <vim refcard>. |
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| 02:11.20 | gholinbrown | last question. are the packages we download for example through apt-get , are these checked locally to be what was expected? and if it does, surely those hashes are pre-secured in the initial installation or ar they literally fetched across http at the time you give an apt command |
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| 02:13.59 | sney | checksums are in the package. if you're concerned about http, https has been built in to apt for some time, and most mirrors support it too, so feel free to tweak sources.list accordingly |
| 02:14.03 | sney | !debsums |
| 02:14.03 | dpkg | debsums is a utility that will check a package's files against their checksums. The "-a" argument will instruct it to also check configuration files: "apt install debsums; debsums -a -s". Almost all packages come with md5sums included in the package or apt will have generated them for you; generate missing ones with "apt-get install --reinstall `debsums -l`". Ask me about <md5sums>. |
| 02:14.46 | sney | package lists and repositories are signed as well |
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| 02:16.13 | gholinbrown | so basically i had to know to edit my sources file to use https. and since i didn't im' potentially a victim of MITM |
| 02:16.41 | sney | if you need all of your defaults to be perfect before you change anything on the system, you probably don't want debian. |
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| 02:21.43 | Lutin | Hi guys, when I apt-get a phpX.X-module should it be enabled by default these days ? |
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| 02:22.00 | Lutin | As I thought so |
| 02:26.31 | themill | ghormoon: you're not subject to MITM attacks with apt downloading packages, no matter whether you use http, https or some other protocol |
| 02:26.36 | themill | !secure-apt |
| 02:26.37 | dpkg | [apt-secure] Starting with version 0.6, <APT> performs signature checking of the Release file for all archives. See http://wiki.debian.org/SecureApt , "man apt-secure" and chapter 7 of the Securing Debian Manual (ask me about <securing debian>) for more information. The archive signing key can be found at https://ftp-master.debian.org/keys.html . See also <key>, <no public key>. https://wiki.debian.org/RepositoryFormat |
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| 02:32.29 | ryouma | what physical sector size should one expect from most consumer drives? all of mine are NOT showing 4096 when i run fdisk -l. logical and physical are showing as the same. just wnat to know if this is normal. |
| 02:33.34 | ryouma | (also want to know if debian does or requires anything special about this, such as in mount options or partitioning tools or something) |
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| 02:36.26 | sney | ryouma: to the second point, IME with a wide range of hardware, I've never had to do anything special to get normal/expected performance from any disk I've owned. there are certainly tweaks people can do to make things faster/more efficient, but for general "works" I've never seen a disk that conflicted with the defaults. |
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| 02:37.14 | ryouma | great, thanks |
| 02:38.14 | ryouma | that also answers my next question about relatime vs. lazytime vs. noatime on extn vs. btrfs and various types of drives |
| 02:40.08 | sney | and looking at fdisk -l on my hypervisor: mechanical disks report 4096B sectors, SSDs report 512B, and the logical zvols it created for kvm guests are 8192B. |
| 02:40.21 | sney | I remember hearing something about SSD firmware possibly lying about this as well |
| 02:41.14 | ryouma | i didn't think my spinning rust drives were /that/ old, but maybe they are |
| 02:41.26 | ryouma | but if it doesn't matter much, great |
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| 06:00.36 | *** topic/#debian is Current Debian release is buster, 10.7 point release /msg dpkg 10.7; /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Stretch has limited LTS support: /msg dpkg stretch-lts ; /msg dpkg 9.13 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
| 06:00.38 | zerocool | mariadb-common is the only package installed |
| 06:00.57 | zerocool | says update-alternatives: error: cannot stat file '/etc/alternatives/my.cnf': Invalid argument |
| 06:01.07 | zerocool | that file is there and there are no arguments listed |
| 06:02.37 | zerocool | is there a way to not have to spin up a new vm |
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| 06:07.11 | growly | sigh, nope |
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| 06:16.30 | zykotick9 | growly: have you tested the regular/normal debian netinst iso? |
| 06:16.30 | iflema | growly: do the sums add up |
| 06:18.15 | growly | yes to both |
| 06:18.22 | growly | i check md5sums so the download is correct |
| 06:18.43 | growly | i've tried 10.7, bullseye alpha 3, and the weekly testing build |
| 06:19.34 | growly | the only weird thing i've noticed is that the logical sector size of the filesystem when you dd the .iso to the flash drive is 2048 instead of 512 b, which means the partition table doesn't make much sense |
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| 06:24.50 | iflema | where are they from? |
| 06:25.25 | growly | debian.org |
| 06:25.40 | growly | Downloads/debian-10.7.0-amd64-netinst.iso Downloads/debian-bullseye-DI-alpha3-amd64-netinst.iso |
| 06:25.43 | growly | Downloads/debian-bullseye-DI-alpha3-amd64-DVD-1.iso |
| 06:25.59 | iflema | bullseyealpha why |
| 06:26.09 | iflema | snap that shot |
| 06:26.12 | growly | i also tried the latest testing |
| 06:26.50 | growly | i only used bullseye alpha cause i know it worked two days ago haha |
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| 07:02.46 | zerocool | nothing will install or uninstall on this pos how does this happen? |
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| 08:27.57 | iflema | change pos |
| 08:27.59 | iflema | :D |
| 08:28.20 | iflema | 30 left |
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| 08:29.28 | iflema | maybe lower |
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| 08:49.22 | growly | omfg |
| 08:49.27 | growly | all my problems: uefi |
| 08:49.49 | growly | i enabled the legacy oprom in my bios and booted the old-school way, then boom, debian install works. no problem |
| 08:49.53 | growly | except this is awful |
| 08:49.56 | growly | and i want my day back |
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| 08:54.49 | brigand | growly: which hardware? |
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| 09:10.45 | muffindrake | Hello, is there a way to change the default file manager that directories are opened with by GTK/Qt applications? sid |
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| 09:11.11 | muffindrake | That's assuming no full DE is used. I'm on i3. |
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| 09:11.42 | nkuttler | do you mean the file picker? |
| 09:12.10 | muffindrake | A filesystem browser. |
| 09:12.24 | muffindrake | nautilus, pcmanfm, and so on. |
| 09:12.38 | nkuttler | can you give an example? which application opens the file manager, and to do what? |
| 09:13.32 | muffindrake | For example, using the 'Show in folder' function for downloads in chromium |
| 09:13.44 | muffindrake | That opens a file manager, and I want to change which one is opened. |
| 09:15.04 | nkuttler | that probably uses xdg-open |
| 09:15.28 | muffindrake | What would the appropriate mime type to bind a particular program to, then? |
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| 09:19.22 | nkuttler | muffindrake: inode/directory |
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| 09:58.02 | muffindrake | I successfully set the program using xdg-mime default pcmanfm.desktop inode/directory, but chromium apparently does not use xdg-open for this purpose, as it continues to use nautilus instead after restarting it |
| 09:58.46 | muffindrake | Er, now I'm not sure whether that's the correct program to use |
| 10:00.24 | muffindrake | ... what's the correct way to set a default program for a mime type on a DE-less system in debian sid? All the information I'm finding on this appears to be outdated or wrong. |
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| 10:09.33 | alex11 | muffindrake, maybe this helps you https://wiki.debian.org/MIME#Application_association |
| 10:10.52 | alex11 | muffindrake, however, you might also be hitting a bug; maybe ask #debian-next on oftc |
| 10:11.13 | growly | brigand: asus prime x299-deluxe ii, intel i7 9940x, 128gb ram, samsung 970 pro nvme ssd, lsi sas raid card which forces me to use legacy boot room along with uefi |
| 10:11.26 | growly | tomorrow i will take out the lsi card and try using no CSM at all |
| 10:11.45 | growly | but this is clutching at straws |
| 10:12.28 | growly | yeah unfortunately installing a uefi system through the legacy installer mode seems to be quite a lot more complicated than the push-button walkthrough i did last time or, at least, was expecting |
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| 10:14.05 | muffindrake | Hitting a bug with setting a default application? I created ~/.local/share/applications/mimeapps.list and put in the content as should be correct according to that wiki entry, but the change is not reflected when I use xxdg-open on any directory. |
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| 10:14.28 | muffindrake | The fact that there might be a bug there is ... concerning. |
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| 10:14.38 | alex11 | maybe, but you're using sid |
| 10:14.46 | muffindrake | I'll ask in debian-next |
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| 10:28.00 | kwami | Anyone here? |
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| 10:30.11 | kwami | My server is loosing the static route defined on the interface file configuration, any suggestion of what is causing that |
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| 10:38.58 | pasiz | kwami: could you put the contents in the pastebin and explain your setup |
| 10:41.31 | pasiz | and have you read man page for systemd.network |
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| 10:42.00 | pasiz | network is in all modern debians configured via systemd |
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| 10:49.53 | haba713 | hi! i can't install chromium to debian buster because of this dependency problem: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/b1ccda05/ |
| 10:50.23 | haba713 | maybe i'm not the only one: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=980239 |
| 10:50.51 | haba713 | who can / should fix this issue? |
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| 10:52.51 | azeem | haba713: the chromium maintainer |
| 10:53.10 | haba713 | :) obiously |
| 10:53.26 | haba713 | obviously... |
| 10:54.17 | azeem | haba713: chromium on buster seems to be at 87.0.4280.141, not 83.0.4103.116 |
| 10:54.27 | azeem | so probably you have something on hold/pinned |
| 10:54.54 | azeem | and/or try apt install chromium=87.0.4280.141-0.1~deb10u1 chromium-common=87.0.4280.141-0.1~deb10u1 |
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| 10:58.53 | haba713 | how can i list hold/pinned packages? |
| 11:00.51 | haba713 | "apt-mark showhold" returns nothing |
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| 11:04.13 | azeem | did you try the command line above? |
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| 11:08.58 | vanfanel | hi! I am trying to access an vnc server (tightvnc) from the local network. I first launch it with "vncsever", then create an ssh tunnel with: ssh -L 59000:localhost:5901 -C -N -l <username> <local-network-ip> |
| 11:09.50 | oxek | !tell haba713 bat |
| 11:10.01 | vanfanel | however I get, on vncviewer I get: vncviewer: ConnectToTcpAddr: connect: Connection refused |
| 11:10.09 | oxek | !bat |
| 11:10.09 | dpkg | [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use https://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>. |
| 11:10.14 | oxek | haba713: read that |
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| 11:11.42 | oxek | my guess would be that your sources.list does not contain debian-security repo |
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| 11:23.15 | oxek | haba713: installing chromium works fine here |
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| 11:30.30 | haba713 | oxek: my apt/sources.list looks like this: https://paste.debian.net/1181477/ |
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| 11:42.08 | kwami | Pasiz: https://pastebin.com/QiyLM6NA |
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| 11:43.42 | relipse | Hi, I'm on Debian Jessie, how exactly do I backup my stuff, I am on linode so I clicked the take snapshot, but is there anything else I need to do before I upgrade? |
| 11:44.25 | relipse | and what do I need to back up? |
| 11:44.41 | relipse | I am running a php apache and letsencrypt and a bunch of websites |
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| 11:44.55 | ratrace | anything you can't recreate when you click Linode's "reinstall" button in case of a catastrophical failure |
| 11:45.28 | ratrace | also... why are you running a public server without basic knowledge that would cover these questions? |
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| 11:47.41 | oxek | haba713: did you run 'sudo apt update' first? |
| 11:47.41 | kwami | My server is losing the static route, suggestions please. I dont want to run a script eith cron to set up the route |
| 11:47.45 | relipse | i'm a programmer, not really somone hwo managers servers |
| 11:48.15 | ratrace | relipse: then don't run a public server, hire someone who can, or take managed hosting |
| 11:48.15 | daysun | First time debian. Making the notice that its sources.list isn't using https? |
| 11:48.27 | oxek | daysun: so make it use https |
| 11:48.49 | daysun | oxek: do I just add an s? |
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| 11:49.03 | oxek | daysun: use this https://0x0.st/-iX1.txt |
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| 11:49.16 | ratrace | kwami: suggestions for what precisely? your question isn't clear |
| 11:49.44 | daysun | thanks oxek |
| 11:49.46 | oxek | daysun: assuming you're on debian 10 (buster) of course |
| 11:49.47 | kwami | Of what can be causing this issue and how can I fix it |
| 11:50.28 | daysun | kwami: lost after each reboot or randomly? |
| 11:50.34 | ratrace | kwami: have you checked the logs to see if there's any message along with a dropped route? |
| 11:50.52 | daysun | never mind |
| 11:50.56 | relipse | Managed hosting is . +$100/month per Linode , my own server is ~$20/month, that's a huge price difference that's why, I know linux well enough to keep the sucker running, but it's time for an upgrade |
| 11:51.10 | kwami | daysun: randomly |
| 11:51.26 | ratrace | kwami: also give us more details. what route? ipv4? v6? how do you lose it? one moment it's there, another it's gone from the list of routes, or it IS three but no packets are going through? |
| 11:52.09 | ratrace | *there |
| 11:53.50 | kwami | ratrace: I set up a route in the interface file wich works perfectly, but after several minutes the route disapear from the route table anda the server turn itself unable to send packets to hosts on another network |
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| 11:55.28 | ratrace | kwami: and, again, did you check the logs for any mention of the situation or dropping the route? |
| 11:55.46 | kwami | ratrace: Yes, nothing logged |
| 11:56.39 | ratrace | kwami: I find that hard to believe. which logs did you check? |
| 11:57.14 | ratrace | also please pastebin your interfaces file so we can see how you're setting up the route |
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| 11:58.51 | kwami | ratrace: realy, I checked /var/log/syslog |
| 11:59.03 | ratrace | relipse: then you should know exactly wht to back up. image the server has blown up and you have to set it up anew. you back up each "Gee, I wish I had this file from before" you think would happen :) |
| 11:59.26 | kwami | ratrace: https://pastebin.com/QiyLM6NA |
| 11:59.40 | ratrace | relipse: *imagine |
| 11:59.47 | relipse | ratrace: ok do I need to do anything for apache and letsencrypt? or will that all transfer safely? |
| 12:00.11 | ratrace | relipse: I don't know. one rule of thumb is, if you used third party repos, disable them before the upgrade. |
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| 12:01.08 | ratrace | the main/default debian repos _should_ allow for smooth upgarde. actually, now that I think about it, PHP was a bit problematic because it was installed in parallel, so you'd have to explicitely remove old packages and configs |
| 12:01.20 | ratrace | (the configs are in version specific directories, so keep that in mind) |
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| 12:02.29 | kwami | ratrace: anything wrong in my NIC conf |
| 12:03.05 | kwami | I think not, bcause it works initialy... |
| 12:03.35 | daysun | aptitude update && aptitude full-upgrade ... can that all be replaced with one command? |
| 12:03.39 | daysun | like other dists do it :P |
| 12:04.12 | daysun | aptitude isnt' even installed, but the update guide tells you to use aptitude |
| 12:04.14 | ratrace | yeah, shove it into a script then call that one script |
| 12:05.33 | daysun | does apt stack up old packages in the system (that consumes space) that you need to clear once in a while? |
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| 12:05.39 | ratrace | kwami: and when does the route disappear? after some set time? randomly? do you have before and after exaples of the `ip route` output ? |
| 12:06.20 | ratrace | daysun: apt no, apt-get yes, I don't know about aptitude |
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| 12:07.04 | daysun | are you supposed to use apt or apt-get? I just want to update my system and stuff |
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| 12:07.20 | CrystalMath | i use apt-get |
| 12:07.24 | kwami | ratrace: the route disapears randomly. when it happens the route table becomes the default, without the route add on NIC up |
| 12:07.30 | ratrace | daysun: whichever you like, considering their (minor) differences |
| 12:07.30 | CrystalMath | but i'm thinking of switching to dselect :D |
| 12:07.45 | relipse | I am on Description: Debian GNU/Linux 8.11 (jessie) , is it possible to update to buster right away? |
| 12:07.49 | kwami | **disappears |
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| 12:08.41 | ratrace | relipse: maybe but it's not supported or tested. just to through stretch. |
| 12:09.37 | OzFalcon | Found an interesting race condition with xorg |
| 12:09.47 | ratrace | kwami: do you have networkmanager, or some other network configuration tool that might conflict with ifupdown? a leftover cron debugging or something script that would remove the route? |
| 12:10.27 | ratrace | kwami: there's also systemd-networkd installed on Debian. are you 100% sure it is not enabled or started somehow? |
| 12:10.59 | ratrace | kwami: it'd be super awesome if you could know _precise_ time when the route drops, then pastebin the logs surrounding that time, say a minute before and after |
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| 12:13.19 | kwami | ratrace: Iam making some tests 2 c if is there any conflict |
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| 12:14.28 | ratrace | ideally you'll need the logs for the time surrounding the route loss. the logs cna show if some other framework piped up and reset the network |
| 12:16.09 | ratrace | also check if your (r)syslog configuration is default. by default, it logs *.* into /var/log/syslog. if you changed that, then there might be other files with clues. ideally you use the journal. |
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| 12:31.42 | relipse | Can someone help me with my sources file, the upgrade guide tells me to rename everything to stretch, but i see a lot of them commented out? What do I do? https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/KDhl2i6x/ |
| 12:33.31 | ratrace | uncomment them. also comment out third party repos. |
| 12:33.34 | ratrace | !stretch sources.list |
| 12:33.34 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Stretch" has three lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main" "deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main". Be sure to run «apt update» after editing sources.list. Also see <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <stretch/updates> <stretch-updates> <mirrors> and "man sources.list". |
| 12:35.27 | n4dir | relipse: deb-src lines you only need if you plan to compile from source. Most of the time you want to backport a higher version, and for that you would need a different release than the usual one (say testing or sid if you run stable) |
| 12:35.42 | n4dir | as in: it being commented is not unusual |
| 12:36.18 | n4dir | deb cdrom you only need if you install packages from, well, a CD or DVD. If you don't, you can remove it altogether |
| 12:36.37 | relipse | ok is this good? |
| 12:36.41 | n4dir | notesalexp : i got no clue. |
| 12:36.42 | relipse | https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/f5GCbrLX/ |
| 12:37.25 | n4dir | relipse: looks good to me, besides the notesalexp entry, no clue about it. The link ratrace gave will offer you something for copy and paste, if you want to be sure |
| 12:38.18 | relipse | n4dir: I don't understand what you mean? What is notesalexp ? |
| 12:38.33 | n4dir | you got such a line in your sources list |
| 12:38.43 | n4dir | line 5 |
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| 12:39.25 | relipse | i removed it can you look at the second link I posted |
| 12:40.02 | ratrace | relipse: is "main" the only component you used? |
| 12:40.20 | n4dir | relipse: i sure can, but really, your best bet is to comment everything in sources.list, copy and paste the entry from the link of ratrace at the top, then go for it |
| 12:40.44 | relipse | ratrace probably I mean that's the only thing in that file |
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| 12:41.07 | n4dir | i tend to remove everything i don't need, instead of commenting it out, so i can understand the sources.list at a quick glance. Your choice though |
| 12:41.28 | n4dir | if you have everything commented at the bottom, it is just as clear |
| 12:42.34 | n4dir | ah, yeah, like your second paste-link. |
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| 12:43.05 | relipse | https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/YHwYzR9j/ |
| 12:43.15 | relipse | ok i just got rid of everything except what ratrace posted |
| 12:43.21 | relipse | now should i do the upgrade? |
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| 12:43.50 | unixbsd | anyone capable to run stratagus with strategic games? where to place the data files? |
| 12:44.16 | ratrace | unixbsd: wrong channel? |
| 12:44.25 | n4dir | i sure would, but, you know, there is always something someone could oversee. So i hesitate to shout a "GO", and then be the bad guy. relipse To me it looks good |
| 12:44.32 | ratrace | relipse: I would enable all components, unless you're 100% sure "main" is the ONLY one you've possibly ever used |
| 12:44.52 | n4dir | i would enable contrib and non-free only if i knew i need it |
| 12:44.58 | ratrace | enabling the components won't automagically install unwanted software, so it's safe for _upgrade_ |
| 12:45.32 | n4dir | if jessie worked fine being free i see no reason why stable shouldn't ... |
| 12:46.23 | ratrace | non-free probably isn't needed, but contrib could be. is there harm in enabling them for the upgrade? |
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| 12:47.33 | n4dir | i doubt there is any harm in contrib or non-free, besides the "political" aspect. |
| 12:48.03 | ratrace | even that. like I said, software won't automagically get installed from them unless they're a dependency |
| 12:48.05 | n4dir | sounds cool to say: i only use main, doesn't it? vrms would be proud |
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| 12:48.57 | relipse | I have a question. This upgrade guide suggests to put the deb-src in as well, should I do that? https://www.itzgeek.com/how-tos/linux/debian/how-to-upgrade-debian-8-jessie-to-debian-9-stretch.html |
| 12:49.19 | n4dir | ratrace: to be done with this i agree with you. To me it doesn't matter that much, and i hardly am able to use main only anyway. |
| 12:49.24 | ratrace | most guides suck, and this one ain't an exception |
| 12:49.56 | relipse | ok i'm going to go upgrade |
| 12:50.00 | relipse | thanks for your help |
| 12:50.01 | ratrace | n4dir: unless I've gone crazy, I think there was at some point a situation where zfs components where spread between main and contrib, which I thought was rather unusual. |
| 12:50.07 | n4dir | yee-haw ! good luck relipse |
| 12:50.40 | n4dir | ratrace: ah, yeah, hence i don't wanna discuss. I live in my world, with my problems. And i know only that much (or: little :-) ) |
| 12:50.40 | ratrace | relipse: before you do.... |
| 12:51.15 | relipse | Does this look good? https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/CBPij9fD/ |
| 12:51.18 | ratrace | relipse: linode used to have situations in the past where "snapshots" were supposedly done but when you needed them, they were broken. I'd _never_ trust my provider to create backups. if you can, make sure you have your own, independent backups |
| 12:51.54 | relipse | i already backed up my databases |
| 12:52.12 | n4dir | relipse: apt or dpkg or whatever tends to complain loud and clear. So yes, looks good |
| 12:53.54 | ratrace | I'm not sure you should have both jessie and stretch repos at the asme time? |
| 12:54.39 | n4dir | oops. shame. relipse ^^ |
| 12:54.45 | jim | relipse, you want to make sure first, to bring the original version of debian up to date |
| 12:55.26 | jim | you're going from jessie to stretch? or which? |
| 12:56.33 | relipse | jessie to stretch |
| 12:56.57 | relipse | then i want go to buster |
| 12:57.11 | n4dir | relipse: read what ratrace said. You still have jessie entries somewhere. |
| 12:57.14 | jim | !codenames |
| 12:57.14 | dpkg | Debian release codenames are buzz (1.1), rex (1.2), bo (1.3), hamm (2.0), slink (2.1), potato (2.2), woody (3.0), sarge (3.1), etch (4.0), lenny (5.0), squeeze (6.0), wheezy (7) jessie (8) stretch (9) buster (10) and sid=Unstable. "lsb_release -sc" (lsb-release package) will display a Debian system's codename. http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-ftparchives#s-codenames |
| 12:57.26 | jim | so 7 to 8 |
| 12:57.42 | jim | before you start on that, make sure 7 is uptodate |
| 12:57.46 | n4dir | or 8-9, depending which math system someone uses |
| 12:57.47 | daysun | sorry.. what's the difference between apt dist-upgrade and apt upgrade? |
| 12:57.57 | daysun | I think I understand what the doc says.. but what does it mean in practice? |
| 12:58.24 | daysun | don't you get your software updated with apt upgrade since it never removes or installs new packages?? |
| 12:58.38 | daysun | it's basically just updates of what you've got? |
| 12:58.44 | relipse | i don't have any entries for jessie in cat /etc/apt/sources.list why is apt mentioning jessie? |
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| 12:59.04 | n4dir | relipse: try /etc/apt/sources.list.d |
| 12:59.30 | jim | wheezy is 7... is this asdfasd? |
| 12:59.42 | daysun | relipse: and uname -a and see if it's says jessie there |
| 12:59.54 | daysun | jim: asdfqwerty |
| 12:59.55 | n4dir | daysun: i wouldn't bet, but i seem to recall upgrade doesn't install or remove packages not yet on the system, dist-upgrade does that if needed. In practice i just do upgrade first, then dist-upgrade. |
| 13:00.22 | relipse | https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/4gwUXrZg/ |
| 13:00.32 | relipse | ok it looks like i installed node a long time go |
| 13:00.35 | relipse | can i just delete this file |
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| 13:01.17 | jim | I was talking to a guy yesterday who was thinking about upgrading from wheezy to buster, to make sure he could mount a windows share |
| 13:01.22 | n4dir | if it was me and i was not sure if i would need it in the future, i would comment it for now, and remove it when being sure later |
| 13:01.34 | relipse | ok i'll comment it out |
| 13:01.54 | jim | last I knew, he had backed up his hd |
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| 13:02.18 | relipse | ok i'm sorry to bother you guys all the time, but how is this? https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/m7ufSdcN/ |
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| 13:03.02 | n4dir | i was already wrong earlier, ratrace or jim ? (i say: looks good) |
| 13:03.27 | jim | you shouild make sure the -current- dist is uptodate |
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| 13:04.15 | jim | put wheezy back, apt update, then apt upgrade and apt dist-upgrade |
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| 13:04.46 | ratrace | what jim said pretty much, first upgrade current distro to latest ...... assuming the repos are still available for jessie |
| 13:04.49 | raekuul | daysun: upgrade by itself only changes the packages already installed. If A.1 depends on B.1 but A.2 depends on both B.2 and C.1, regular upgrade won't upgrade A.1 because it needs a new package, but dist-upgrade will install C.1 in order to upgrade A.1 to A.2 |
| 13:05.13 | jim | isn't he on wheezy right now? |
| 13:05.51 | jim | aka debian 7 |
| 13:06.17 | n4dir | jessie |
| 13:06.18 | ratrace | I thought it was jessie |
| 13:06.24 | ratrace | they said 8.1 |
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| 13:06.44 | n4dir | that back and forth with versions and nicknames of version is killing me softly |
| 13:06.48 | ratrace | which BY THE WAY.... just reinforces my argument earlier that they should NOT be running a public server without getting some basic knowledge first. |
| 13:07.15 | relipse | no i'm on jessie |
| 13:07.29 | relipse | !codenames is wrong |
| 13:07.30 | dpkg | ...but codenames is already something else... |
| 13:07.48 | relipse | !codenames |
| 13:07.48 | dpkg | Debian release codenames are buzz (1.1), rex (1.2), bo (1.3), hamm (2.0), slink (2.1), potato (2.2), woody (3.0), sarge (3.1), etch (4.0), lenny (5.0), squeeze (6.0), wheezy (7) jessie (8) stretch (9) buster (10) and sid=Unstable. "lsb_release -sc" (lsb-release package) will display a Debian system's codename. http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-ftparchives#s-codenames |
| 13:07.50 | daysun | raekuul: so which one should you use? :P |
| 13:07.56 | daysun | upgrade or dist-upgrade |
| 13:08.03 | ratrace | that server apparently saw zero upgrades and is vulnerable AF..... if not already pwnt. people should really get licensed before taking out a 20t server truck on the internet highway.... you'll kill someone. |
| 13:08.22 | ratrace | _literally_ (botnets attacking medical hardware) |
| 13:08.22 | n4dir | daysun: i was always told first upgrade, then dist-upgrade. I never thought about the why. |
| 13:08.24 | raekuul | Which one *should* I use, or which one *do* I use? |
| 13:08.37 | ratrace | raekuul: apt upgrade does it all. |
| 13:08.38 | relipse | are you guys talking to me or someone else? |
| 13:08.46 | ratrace | relipse: I was referring to you :) |
| 13:08.49 | n4dir | on stable both ain't that exciting anyway |
| 13:08.51 | daysun | n4dir: dist-upgrade does upgrade for you. it's pointless to do both |
| 13:09.09 | n4dir | daysun: might be. I was told, over and over, and hence that is what i do |
| 13:09.09 | ratrace | upgrade jessie to max first, then switch to stretch and apt update, apt upgrade |
| 13:09.12 | relipse | so what should I do, i'm about to upgrade to stretch |
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| 13:09.33 | relipse | how do I upgrade it to max? |
| 13:09.42 | relipse | i already ran sudo apt-get upgrade |
| 13:09.57 | dvs | daysun: upgrade then dist-upgrade is in the upgrade instructions in the release notes. |
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| 13:10.19 | ratrace | relipse: apt upgrade does more than apt-get upgrade, and the latter require apt-get dist-upgrade |
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| 13:11.09 | daysun | dvs: does it depend on whether you're using apt or apt-get? |
| 13:11.33 | dvs | daysun: the release notes usualy does apt-get |
| 13:11.40 | relipse | i already ran apt-get update; apt-get upgrade |
| 13:11.48 | relipse | under jessie |
| 13:11.54 | relipse | so i should be good to go |
| 13:11.59 | hejux | debian is so fucked up. why apt and apt-get |
| 13:11.59 | raekuul | daysun: depends on if you're scripting the update process or not. apt for interactive use, apt-get for scripted use |
| 13:12.01 | daysun | I read that apt full-upgrade upgrades first before doing a "dist-upgrade". It differs from apt-get if iirc where you got to apt-get update first |
| 13:12.07 | dvs | relipse: no, you need dist-upgrade as well |
| 13:12.29 | relipse | dvs: so you want me to change my sources back to jessie and run apt-get dist-upgrade ? |
| 13:13.03 | hejux | apt ; apt-get; full-upgrade ; dist-upgrade ; DAMN DEBIAN NEEDS UNIVERSAL COMMAND STYLE |
| 13:13.25 | dvs | relipse: if you didn't do any other upgrades afterwards yes. |
| 13:13.25 | raekuul | hejux: that's why aptitude and synaptic were invented |
| 13:13.27 | n4dir | hejux: you forgot aptitude ... |
| 13:14.09 | dvs | relipse: if you did some upgrades after changing your sources.list, no. |
| 13:14.31 | hejux | n4dir: raekuul that one is universal? |
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| 13:14.42 | hejux | and can do everything that apt or apt-get does? |
| 13:14.49 | raekuul | aptitude and synaptic double as tui/graphical frontents for apt, so yes |
| 13:14.55 | n4dir | hejux: didn't say that, only that there is even more confusion |
| 13:15.08 | raekuul | I got in the habit early on of just using apt outright though, so I'm more apt with apt |
| 13:15.19 | hejux | n4dir: yeah, that's fucked up |
| 13:15.40 | hejux | debian 11 should just drop the fucking history and move forward |
| 13:15.47 | n4dir | hejux: since the very beginning i stick to just one option. The confusion for me is only there if talking to others |
| 13:16.00 | n4dir | aptitude has some neat stuff though. |
| 13:16.16 | n4dir | but i hardly need it |
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| 13:16.31 | hejux | n4dir:that's why i stick with PACMAN |
| 13:16.39 | n4dir | ha ha. yeah, good idea |
| 13:16.48 | raekuul | daysun: in practice 'apt upgrade' and 'apt full-upgrade' differ on how they handle conflicting upgrades. regular upgrade preserves what's already installed, full-upgrade will remove older versions that prohibit newer versions |
| 13:17.08 | hejux | n4dir: oh, i forgot another fucked up thing : dpkg |
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| 13:17.40 | hejux | raekuul: fook that, just pacman |
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| 13:18.13 | ratrace | found the "btw, I run arch" guy |
| 13:18.21 | hejux | yeah |
| 13:18.35 | relipse | upgrading... |
| 13:18.47 | n4dir | relipse: fingers crossed. |
| 13:19.17 | relipse | https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/EOWeeONQ/ |
| 13:19.21 | relipse | ok now what |
| 13:19.23 | ratrace | well, they have proper backups (right? right?!) so, pfffft, even if it blows up, it can be restored. |
| 13:19.28 | relipse | why don't I have a codename |
| 13:20.54 | ratrace | did the upgrade completely finish? |
| 13:21.18 | relipse | yeah |
| 13:21.22 | relipse | i htink? |
| 13:21.39 | n4dir | you did dist-upgrade too? |
| 13:21.40 | jim | what command did you just run? |
| 13:21.51 | relipse | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:22.00 | n4dir | then do dist-upgrade too |
| 13:22.03 | relipse | my website is still working? are you sure something happen? |
| 13:22.10 | jim | ok, run it again, see if it wants to do anything |
| 13:22.41 | jim | if it's all 0s, you're ready for the next step |
| 13:22.41 | relipse | 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 185 not upgraded. |
| 13:22.52 | relipse | ok jim what is the next step |
| 13:22.56 | relipse | that is my name too :) |
| 13:23.08 | jim | hmm. |
| 13:23.43 | jelly | redo the lsat command you did, probably |
| 13:24.03 | jim | well no one's going NO STOP DON"T FIN! |
| 13:24.51 | jim | jelly, he just did, to produce the "0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 185 not upgraded." line |
| 13:24.52 | relipse | so what do i do? |
| 13:25.03 | n4dir | apt-get dist-upgrade |
| 13:25.24 | relipse | i need a confirmation, should I do what n4dir says? |
| 13:25.32 | n4dir | a six-pack is never a bad choice either ... |
| 13:25.33 | jim | yep, that sounds right to me |
| 13:25.49 | jelly | relipse, which release upgrade are you doing right now, from what to what? |
| 13:25.53 | jim | unless a 12 pack is available :) |
| 13:26.03 | relipse | jelly: I'm doing jessie to stretch |
| 13:26.08 | n4dir | ha ha. At least you lose your shyness, jim |
| 13:26.09 | relipse | after that I want to go to buster |
| 13:26.09 | jelly | okay |
| 13:26.18 | jelly | dpkg, jessie->stretch |
| 13:26.18 | dpkg | Read (at least) the upgrading chapter of the <release notes> http://deb.li/OFVv . In /etc/apt/sources.list, change "jessie" to "stretch" and remove stable-specific lines like jessie-backports. apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade. 3rd party repos like <dmo> are known to cause problems with the upgrade. |
| 13:26.21 | ratrace | jim: porque no los dos |
| 13:26.48 | jim | why not ddos?! |
| 13:26.58 | jelly | relipse, and which kernel is running right now? |
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| 13:27.28 | relipse | i'm doing a dist upgrade the last time i checked it was Description: Debian GNU/Linux 9.13 (n/a) with no codename |
| 13:27.31 | jim | oh good point |
| 13:28.03 | jim | and, what kernels are installed right now... howbout: ls -CF /boot | nc termbin.com 9999 |
| 13:28.30 | n4dir | this way or that way the dist-upgrade must be done |
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| 13:29.18 | n4dir | iirc the new kernel comes with dist-upgrade, but then: i don't really care for kernels. |
| 13:29.53 | jim | so he should reboot after confirming the dist upgrade is completed |
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| 13:32.37 | jelly | relipse, I mean, what is "uname -a" saying right now, is it at least 3.16 something |
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| 13:32.47 | relipse | ok its stuck thinking on https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/tQmKsiYS/ |
| 13:33.09 | relipse | 13:15 /etc/apt/sources.list.d (master)$ uname -a |
| 13:33.09 | relipse | Linux cworklog.com 5.8.3-x86_64-linode137 #1 SMP PREEMPT Mon Aug 24 14:50:33 EDT 2020 x86_64 GNU/Linux |
| 13:33.24 | jelly | that's new enough for stretch (Debian 9) to work, ok |
| 13:34.26 | relipse | what about 10 (buster) ? |
| 13:34.31 | jelly | that too |
| 13:34.36 | relipse | can someone please fix !codenames |
| 13:34.40 | relipse | !codenames |
| 13:34.40 | dpkg | Debian release codenames are buzz (1.1), rex (1.2), bo (1.3), hamm (2.0), slink (2.1), potato (2.2), woody (3.0), sarge (3.1), etch (4.0), lenny (5.0), squeeze (6.0), wheezy (7) jessie (8) stretch (9) buster (10) and sid=Unstable. "lsb_release -sc" (lsb-release package) will display a Debian system's codename. http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-ftparchives#s-codenames |
| 13:34.56 | relipse | oh it is right, |
| 13:34.59 | relipse | nevermind |
| 13:35.03 | jelly | it's just missing bullseye |
| 13:35.12 | jelly | !release history |
| 13:35.12 | dpkg | Named after "Toy Story" characters. Buzz(1.1; 1996-03-14), Rex(1.2; 1996-10-28), Bo(1.3; 1997-05-01), Hamm(2.0; 1998-07-24), Slink(2.1; 1999-03-09), Potato(2.2; 2000-08-15), Woody(3.0; 2002-07-19), Sarge(3.1; 2005-06-06), Etch(4.0; 2007-04-08), Lenny(5.0; 2009-02-14), Squeeze(6.0; 2011-02-06), Wheezy(7; 2013-05-04), Jessie(8; 2015-04-25), Stretch (9; 2017-06-17), Buster (10; 2019-07-06). Next: Bullseye. http://deb.li/it56U |
| 13:35.40 | jelly | dpkg, literal codenames |
| 13:35.40 | dpkg | "codenames" is "<reply>Debian release codenames are buzz (1.1), rex (1.2), bo (1.3), hamm (2.0), slink (2.1), potato (2.2), woody (3.0), sarge (3.1), etch (4.0), lenny (5.0), squeeze (6.0), wheezy (7) jessie (8) stretch (9) buster (10) and sid=Unstable. "lsb_release -sc" (lsb-release package) will display a Debian system's codename. http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-ftparchives#s-codenames" |
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| 13:36.33 | relipse | ok now it's prompting me to keep my local apache version or |
| 13:36.47 | relipse | discard |
| 13:36.54 | jim | wait |
| 13:37.04 | jim | did you configure apache? |
| 13:37.05 | n4dir | probably the config file of apache |
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| 13:37.33 | jim | if so, copy the file into your home dir |
| 13:38.04 | relipse | is this bad? E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) |
| 13:38.13 | jelly | relipse, in general the release upgrade will fare better if you use the vendor (distro) version of config file, or if you immediately put your custom changes into the new one |
| 13:38.39 | relipse | the only error was I couldn't upgrade phpmyadmin |
| 13:38.41 | jelly | relipse, the lines before that would be useful. |
| 13:38.44 | relipse | which is fine |
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| 13:39.01 | relipse | https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/MsWbTXkF/ |
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| 13:39.29 | jelly | that's really not enough to see which package is affected |
| 13:40.01 | relipse | i can't scroll up any more |
| 13:40.03 | jelly | are you saving the full output inside script, as the release notes suggest to do? |
| 13:40.05 | relipse | it was probably phpmyadmin |
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| 13:40.20 | relipse | no sir |
| 13:40.22 | relipse | if you are a si |
| 13:40.25 | relipse | sir~ |
| 13:40.27 | jim | then let it replace with the package mgr's version, then when the upgrade is finished, look at both versions, and you should also see the changes as reported from just when the dist-upgrade started (I dunno where else that's stored, except it might be in an email to and from root |
| 13:40.43 | ratrace | jelly is a bot |
| 13:41.06 | relipse | https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/rZAb5AvL/ |
| 13:41.09 | relipse | sweet!! |
| 13:41.13 | relipse | I think it worked |
| 13:41.15 | relipse | i'm on stretch |
| 13:41.21 | jelly | I'm not a Commonwealth citizen at all, let alone a Sir! |
| 13:41.24 | relipse | and my website is still up |
| 13:41.45 | relipse | should I upgrade to buster now? |
| 13:41.58 | ratrace | stretch->buster will flak your php tho, so be prepared for that |
| 13:42.03 | jim | no, reboot first once you run the dist-upgrade once more |
| 13:42.17 | jelly | relipse, make sure there are no dpkg and apt inconsistencies, reboot, then see if things still work, then think about stretch->buster |
| 13:42.37 | relipse | well my upgrade went from php 5.6 to 7.0 so I'm happy |
| 13:42.43 | relipse | i wish I could get on php 7.4 or 8.0 |
| 13:43.01 | ratrace | relipse: you probably don't that. 8.0 has some nice breakages |
| 13:43.08 | jelly | I'm sure people have told you to run "dpkg --configure -a" and "apt-get -f install" after a dpkg failure like the last one |
| 13:43.10 | ratrace | don't *mean that |
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| 13:43.45 | relipse | https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/xDKfjOxW/ |
| 13:43.54 | relipse | ok it looks like fail2ban is not working |
| 13:44.05 | ratrace | it has its own logs with probably more clues |
| 13:44.22 | jim | relipse, unfortunately the php language devs did a huge disservice, when they repeatedly released incompatible (features missing, new and incompatble features added) versions of php |
| 13:45.13 | jelly | relipse, first fix dpkg and apt inconsistencies. Then reboot and fix services that need fixing. |
| 13:45.38 | relipse | jelly: can you please tell me how to do that |
| 13:46.13 | jim | systemd has a wonderful way of not being informative (failed with result 'exit code') |
| 13:46.45 | jim | someone should file a bug report for that |
| 13:47.04 | jelly | relipse, I already have. "dpkg --configure -a" and "apt-get -f install" |
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| 13:47.30 | ratrace | I don't think that's a bug really. it means the process exited unexpectedly with a nonzero exit code. the process in question, however, is responsible for proper logging |
| 13:47.49 | ratrace | and oftentimes, services are badly configured. |
| 13:47.58 | relipse | fail2ban is not working https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/LY2BD97B/ |
| 13:48.03 | jim | ratrace, well, it might be helpful to know what that exit code is |
| 13:48.05 | jelly | relipse, after reboot? |
| 13:48.18 | ratrace | relipse: are you reading the advice you're given here? |
| 13:48.18 | relipse | i didn't reboot yet |
| 13:48.26 | relipse | yes ratrace |
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| 13:48.34 | ratrace | so did you check fail2ban's own log for clues? |
| 13:48.35 | relipse | i did what jelly said |
| 13:48.47 | jelly | relipse, good, now find and check f2b's own logs |
| 13:48.57 | jim | did any of those want to do anytyhing? |
| 13:49.43 | jelly | jim, do read their last paste before asking questions like that |
| 13:50.04 | ratrace | jim: actually, it does, few lines before that, the exit code is logged |
| 13:50.23 | ratrace | "Main process exited, code=exited, status=<exit code here>" |
| 13:50.39 | jelly | relipse, it will be less ambiguous what you've done if your pastes contain both the command line and the full output |
| 13:50.47 | ratrace | (and systemctl status will show last failure exit code too) |
| 13:51.50 | jim | ok... so you guys have had some months (years?) with systemd... once and for all, is it any good? |
| 13:51.56 | jim | is it better? |
| 13:52.34 | ratrace | yes |
| 13:52.53 | ratrace | it has issues, yes, no software is perfect, but it's lightyears ahead of what we had before |
| 13:53.18 | jelly | (unless you already used runit or even daemontools) |
| 13:53.39 | jim | I've used daemontools |
| 13:54.49 | ratrace | and even if you used daemntools. the capabilities of service/process configuration and containment under systemd, currently has NO alternative |
| 13:54.52 | jim | jelly, their last paste doesn't seem to be the output of (say) dpkg --configure -a |
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| 13:55.43 | relipse | i think i should just reboot |
| 13:55.55 | relipse | i'm tired of messing with fail2ban |
| 13:56.01 | relipse | it keeps saying it started too quickly |
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| 13:56.10 | ratrace | you didn't even post the logs |
| 13:56.11 | jelly | relipse, don't reboot before looking at its logs |
| 13:56.19 | relipse | i tried, it gave nothing useful |
| 13:56.34 | ratrace | systemd saying it started too quickly means it's failing fast after attempted start. you should really look into that |
| 13:56.48 | relipse | https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/dGYCR4aY/ |
| 13:56.52 | jelly | relipse, also, verify you have access to system console in case boot process breaks |
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| 13:57.09 | relipse | yes i have linode lish command line utility |
| 13:57.11 | ratrace | relipse: please use --no-pager when you copy from your terminal |
| 13:57.32 | ratrace | or paste to a pastebin directly using a dedicated tool |
| 13:57.39 | *** join/#debian trysten (~user@unaffiliated/trysten) |
| 13:57.51 | ratrace | and also... that's not fail2ban specific logs.... (sorry for abusing enter, but relipse isn't listening to advice given here) |
| 13:57.55 | jelly | Jan 17 13:54:37 cworklog.com fail2ban-client[14863]: ERROR Failed during configuration: Wh # Wh..at? :-) |
| 13:58.39 | relipse | oh good eye jelly |
| 13:59.47 | jim | relipse, could you run: journalctl -ru fail2ban | nc termbin.com 9999 |
| 14:00.05 | jim | maybe that would give the missing text |
| 14:00.27 | ratrace | please use --no-pager when you copy from your terminal |
| 14:00.37 | ratrace | journalctl <options> --no-pager |
| 14:00.53 | relipse | https://termbin.com/ll0h |
| 14:00.55 | relipse | termbin rocks |
| 14:00.59 | relipse | thanks jim |
| 14:01.11 | jelly | Jan 17 13:54:37 cworklog.com fail2ban-client[14965]: ERROR Failed during configuration: While reading from '/etc/fail2ban/jail.local' [line 155]: option 'port' in section 'pam-generic' already exists |
| 14:01.25 | relipse | wow good eye again jelly and jim |
| 14:01.30 | relipse | you guys rock |
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| 14:01.35 | relipse | I hope God blesses you today |
| 14:01.53 | jelly | it's not good eye, it's just ignoring all the systemd lines and looking for lines from the actual service |
| 14:02.11 | raekuul | good grepping, then |
| 14:02.23 | jelly | doesn't She do that every day |
| 14:02.44 | relipse | God is a Father, He is a He |
| 14:02.52 | ratrace | LOL |
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| 14:03.09 | ratrace | there is no god, and if there were, it would be a she. |
| 14:03.24 | EdePopede | "ignoring all the systemd lines, isn't this some kind of self protection? xD |
| 14:03.25 | jelly | we'll have to agree to disagree on that, if anything both and all the genders apply |
| 14:03.33 | relipse | its a shame a ton of IT guys don't believe in their own Creator |
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| 14:04.09 | EdePopede | He's a Woman, She's a Man. and everyone (also everytwo and everymore) is happy. |
| 14:04.33 | relipse | that nonsense of allowing grown men in women's bathrooms is outlandish |
| 14:04.40 | relipse | that has got to stop |
| 14:04.58 | jelly | yeah, let's not start with the transphobic shit in here, either |
| 14:05.08 | ratrace | indeed |
| 14:05.08 | jelly | focus on the tech stuff |
| 14:05.16 | relipse | fine, back to tech stuff |
| 14:06.39 | relipse | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:06.43 | *** join/#debian galex-713 (~quassel@37.172.132.126) |
| 14:06.47 | relipse | that's line 155 |
| 14:06.51 | relipse | what do I do with that |
| 14:07.02 | relipse | i suppose you are going to tell me rtfrigginQ |
| 14:07.05 | relipse | i suppose you are going to tell me rtfrigginm |
| 14:07.12 | jelly | relipse, if you've chosen to keep own versions of config files, you might have a mix of config files from the old and the new version |
| 14:07.37 | ratrace | well that woudl be a good start, to know the software you're using. back to may argument about you shouldn't be running a public server and you claiming you know linux well enough to keep it running. seems like you have zero clue really. |
| 14:07.48 | *** join/#debian Mental_Inflation (~Mental_In@2a02:587:1206:92a7:87aa:3792:955a:3a5c) |
| 14:07.58 | raekuul | learn by doing though, right? |
| 14:08.06 | relipse | ratrace: 0 is a bit humbling |
| 14:08.07 | jelly | I'd suggest taking a look at the *.dpkg-new files and incorporating your customizations into new templates |
| 14:08.11 | ratrace | yeah but the desire must be there |
| 14:08.15 | relipse | i know how to set up apache and php |
| 14:08.26 | raekuul | so do I, that doesn't mean I know how to keep a server up and running |
| 14:08.29 | ratrace | "I suppose you're going to tell me to rtfm" shows no desire to learn... |
| 14:08.36 | jim | relipse, you're actually learning a hell of a lot right now |
| 14:08.53 | relipse | yeah for free |
| 14:09.24 | jim | ratrace, no, shows decreased desire to read |
| 14:09.37 | relipse | ok looking up fail2ban config stuff |
| 14:09.39 | relipse | ... |
| 14:09.39 | jelly | relipse, my jail.local is very, very short. Pastebin your file |
| 14:10.37 | jelly | you might start by commenting out that one line, try to dpkg --configure -a again and see what happens |
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| 14:11.46 | relipse | https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/e4wcREEX/ |
| 14:11.54 | relipse | is that safe to post ? |
| 14:12.38 | ratrace | relipse: right, you have two port= entries in the pam-generic section as the error hinted at |
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| 14:13.38 | relipse | ratrace: thanks friend! |
| 14:13.41 | relipse | i fixed it |
| 14:13.43 | jelly | also, it seems you have a copy of the whole jail.conf in jail.local, that's needless; the point of jail.local is to write down minimal changes to defaults that are needed for this machine |
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| 14:14.03 | ratrace | seconds that |
| 14:14.07 | jelly | but optimizing the config is a lesson for some other time |
| 14:14.09 | relipse | ok Now you want me to reboot right? |
| 14:14.36 | jelly | relipse, you still need to make sure "dpkg --configure -a" and "apt-get -f install" don't show any more issues |
| 14:15.18 | relipse | ok i have a silly question, why do I need fail2ban, is that to prevent ddos attacks? |
| 14:15.56 | pasiz | relipse: to prevent brute forcing or quess based attacks |
| 14:16.06 | jelly | relipse, f2b mostly mitigates brute force attacks on authenticated services, like ssh or mail services |
| 14:16.09 | ratrace | relipse: no, it's to prevent brute force attempts against some services, but the effectiveness of that is questionable |
| 14:16.27 | jelly | it's not completely useless |
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| 14:16.46 | pasiz | brute force attack or fail2ban? |
| 14:16.57 | ratrace | not completely no. it's useless against distributed attacks, and I mostly see those. one IP will try a few times, much less than the tresholds we keep |
| 14:17.31 | jelly | yep, it can't protect against one user being probed from 100,000 different ip addresses |
| 14:17.55 | jelly | and it doesn't do blocking of whole ranges |
| 14:18.23 | jelly | but some probes are not that smart and still get blocked |
| 14:18.26 | ratrace | and from what I've seen in the logs, for example smtp and imap bruteforcers, they try for exactly 4 times per IP as if 5 is some magickal round number treshold lol :) |
| 14:18.43 | jelly | 5 is probably f2b default to block things ;-) |
| 14:19.14 | ratrace | it is, yes. maxretry = 5 in default jail.conf |
| 14:19.23 | pasiz | best practice would be disable password auth |
| 14:19.26 | relipse | ok i've reboote and everything seems fine. |
| 14:19.29 | relipse | d |
| 14:19.37 | ratrace | pasiz: yes, but you can't for all services |
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| 14:19.53 | jelly | relipse, good, now you can say you have a stretch installation! |
| 14:20.05 | ratrace | relipse: now do it all over again for stretch -> buster. again, note, you might have issues with php, as the config dir changes |
| 14:20.09 | relipse | finally i can use php 7 syntax! |
| 14:20.30 | dvs | not done yet |
| 14:20.40 | relipse | why not? |
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| 14:21.12 | jelly | relipse, don't forget to do cleanup, as documented in stretch release notes. apt-get autoremove, and removing obsolete packages |
| 14:21.18 | jelly | !obsolete |
| 14:21.18 | dpkg | If you remove a repository from your sources.list (e.g. removing <dmm>), then you should check what packages you have installed from the other repository. Synaptic and aptitude have a "Obsolete and Locally Created Packages" list. Or, "aptitude search ~o". Note this doesn't include packages that exist in the repo at a different version to the one you have installed; see <not available> <list repositories>. |
| 14:21.30 | relipse | do you have a link to the release notes |
| 14:21.35 | jelly | !stretch release notes |
| 14:21.36 | dpkg | The release notes for Debian 9 "Stretch" are at https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/amd64/release-notes/ . See also <jessie->stretch>, <stretch install guide> |
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| 14:22.25 | jelly | (the same document is linked in /msg dpkg jessie->stretch ; when you're ready for stretch->buster, read also /msg dpkg stretch->buster) |
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| 14:23.47 | dvs | relipse: well, if you want to stay one release behind, it's up to you |
| 14:24.59 | jelly | stretch will have LTS support until... 2022? 2023? |
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| 14:25.37 | relipse | i really want php 7.4 but the problem is buster only has up to 7.3 |
| 14:25.42 | jelly | and if you want php 7.4 you can probably get it from Sury |
| 14:25.45 | relipse | so i may have to use some other sources |
| 14:25.49 | jelly | !deb.sury.org |
| 14:25.49 | dpkg | Short instructions for sury's php deb builds can be found at https://packages.sury.org/php/README.txt |
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| 14:26.19 | jelly | those are third party but also that guy is one of Debian maintainers for PHP |
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| 14:29.15 | jelly | I'm using his builds of 7.3 on a toy system |
| 14:29.50 | relipse | you run php on a toy system? |
| 14:29.57 | relipse | tell me about that, that sounds cool? |
| 14:30.36 | jelly | not a literal toy, it's just a vps that doesn't run anything important |
| 14:35.26 | ratrace | looks like we'll end up with 7.4 in bullseye... I was really loooking forward to 8.0 too, but .... it's too soon apparently. |
| 14:37.40 | relipse | if you can just use other sources, what's the shame in that? |
| 14:38.14 | haba713 | azeem: yes, i did. it works ok. thanks! |
| 14:38.30 | raekuul | shame? none. guarantees of compatibility and stability? also none |
| 14:39.00 | ratrace | right. and it's not about that. the reason 8.0 won't end up in bullseye is the reason you can't use 8.0 even from another repo, at least not initially |
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| 14:39.23 | jelly | too soon! |
| 14:39.42 | ratrace | game over really, transitions are frozen |
| 14:39.56 | jelly | !bullseye freeze |
| 14:39.56 | dpkg | The first steps of the <freeze> to release Debian 11 "Bullseye" will start on January 12, 2021. https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2020/11/msg00002.html |
| 14:40.45 | jelly | !literal bullseye freeze |
| 14:40.45 | dpkg | "bullseye freeze" is "<reply>The first steps of the <freeze> to release Debian 11 "Bullseye" will start on January 12, 2021. https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2020/11/msg00002.html" |
| 14:41.52 | jelly | dpkg, no, bullseye freeze is <reply>the freeze for Debian 11 'bullseye' has begun on 2021-01-13. https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2021/01/msg00002.html |
| 14:41.52 | dpkg | jelly: okay |
| 14:42.46 | ratrace | y u decapitated bullseye |
| 14:42.52 | ratrace | decapitalized* |
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| 14:44.04 | jelly | feel free uh... for fixing |
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| 14:45.44 | jelly | Toy Story character names are capitalized, I'm not sure where codenames are used are that, except in release notes and such |
| 14:45.55 | jelly | s/are that/like that/ |
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| 14:59.42 | omarek_ | Hi, what is is the recommended system partition size for Debian in 2021? For home and working from home (programmer). |
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| 15:00.31 | omarek_ | I currently have 20 GB / partition. |
| 15:01.09 | dvs | omarek_: if you have a separate /home and /var, that's fine. |
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| 15:01.35 | jim | I also have a separate /usr |
| 15:01.55 | omarek_ | dvs: No separate /var, I get made fun of whenever I suggest it. |
| 15:02.05 | jim | omarek_, do you do a lot of projects? |
| 15:02.29 | dvs | omarek_: a separate /var is a good idea if you are running a server. |
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| 15:02.47 | jim | separate /var, because logs go there, and the debian package cache goes there too |
| 15:02.58 | ratrace | omarek_: clearly we can't know how big your projects will become and what your future needs will be . as a rule of thumb, 10G suffices for installing a desktop with mostly used programs, and then some. I wouldn't go below 20G personally. |
| 15:03.38 | omarek_ | jim: Not currently, but I may need to run a couple of docker containers. I have a couple of years of experience. |
| 15:03.57 | ratrace | I also wouldn't separate out any directory unless: a) needed different mount options for them, b) needed bigger/other storage media |
| 15:04.03 | jim | in what languages? |
| 15:04.09 | jelly | omarek_, separate /var is very nice on servers. Home use? Dunno, are you planning on having huge mysql or postgres databases |
| 15:04.18 | omarek_ | jim: Python and recently Rust. |
| 15:04.33 | omarek_ | I'm moving away from web development. |
| 15:04.42 | jim | ratrace, also, you're protecting / from overfilling |
| 15:04.44 | jelly | separate /usr is senseless |
| 15:05.11 | jhutchins | I find a seperate /var isn't as useful as people think. If /var is full and logging stops, many programs will stall or freeze the system. |
| 15:05.18 | jim | it's where most of the content of packages go |
| 15:05.18 | omarek_ | I typically had separate /, /home, and swap partitions. I can make a separate /var. How big /var makes sense? |
| 15:05.20 | dvs | jelly: agreed |
| 15:05.26 | ratrace | jhutchins: +1 |
| 15:05.39 | ratrace | and also most important ones not to overfill are under /run |
| 15:05.45 | cybercrypto | omarek_: Standard debian partition is pretty much good for general development purposes. You may want to separate /home and /var to make it better. I am running 18GB for root fs /home=200GB and /var=32Gb. Absolutely no issues for my home needs. |
| 15:06.03 | jhutchins | omarek_: I strongly recommend a single partition until you establish where your storage is going to grow. |
| 15:06.11 | omarek_ | Not planning to run real servers, more like dev environment and proof of concept stuff. |
| 15:06.14 | ratrace | seconds that |
| 15:06.59 | dvs | omarek_: if you're not running a server then I wouldn't make a separate /var partition. |
| 15:07.10 | jhutchins | As examples, a server that under-allocated /home because it was a web server, but it had multiple clients serving pages out of /home, or another that didn't allocate enough /var and was running mail and web pages from /var/www. |
| 15:07.11 | jelly | omarek_, honestly not making the /boot too small is more important than having a separate /var or even /home : |
| 15:07.13 | omarek_ | I currently have 15/20GB full on my / partition. |
| 15:07.17 | jelly | for a home system |
| 15:07.19 | omarek_ | Right after apt-get celan |
| 15:07.22 | omarek_ | clean |
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| 15:08.18 | dvs | omarek_: However, 20GB is a little worrisome if it includes /var when upgrading to a new release. |
| 15:09.00 | omarek_ | I think it's quite tricky to resize existing partitions? |
| 15:09.16 | jhutchins | I can't count the times someone made a seperate /boot, then did an upgrade with /boot un-mounted. You may ponder the results. |
| 15:09.18 | jelly | omarek_, just set up a 10GB / and 10GB /home on LVM, leave the rest of the VG free, then grow them later. Avoid partitions. |
| 15:09.18 | dvs | omarek_: not anymore |
| 15:09.22 | jim | unless you use lvm |
| 15:09.25 | jelly | use LVM. |
| 15:09.49 | dvs | use gparted! |
| 15:09.53 | omarek_ | How do I migrate an existing system partition to LVM if I avoid partitions? |
| 15:09.58 | jelly | omarek_, beware, debian-installer will make a /home that uses 100% free space inside a LVM VG by default |
| 15:10.00 | ratrace | use a pooled fs and forget about partitioning forever! |
| 15:10.25 | jim | omarek_, quick primer on lvm... |
| 15:10.26 | ratrace | the partitioning industry hates that simple trick. click here for more info! |
| 15:10.29 | jelly | omarek_, you can't migrate an existing system |
| 15:10.38 | jim | with partitions, you make partitions using a partition tool, format them with a filesystem directly, and mount the partition with the filesystem. with LVM, instead of putting filesystems in partitions directly, you put 'LVM physical volumes' in partitions, then you make a 'volume group' (which is just a list of physical volumes), and put physical volumes in the volume groups, then you can make 'logical volumes', and these are what you would format and |
| 15:10.38 | jim | mount, and they got allocated from a volume group. |
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| 15:12.11 | jelly | omarek_, well, the migration is "format new disk with 1 partition for /boot 1 for LVM, set up LVs for / and swap (and optionally for /var and /home) and restore all data to new fs structure and set up boot loader" |
| 15:12.14 | omarek_ | So LVM is solid enough for everyday use? |
| 15:12.20 | jelly | absolutely |
| 15:12.29 | jim | has been for like 20 years |
| 15:12.50 | jim | quite stable |
| 15:12.50 | omarek_ | I never personally met anyone using it, which is why I'm a bit cautious. |
| 15:13.11 | jelly | d-i still has dumb defaults about partition and LV sizes. |
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| 15:13.14 | omarek_ | I'm buying a nvme SSD drive and looks like I'll need to do a fresh install to get LVM. |
| 15:13.19 | jelly | but that's not LVM's fault |
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| 15:13.42 | omarek_ | I suppose I need to upgrade to debian testing to make sure NVMe is working correctly. |
| 15:13.43 | jim | well are you trying to convert an existing system to (maybe) lvm? or are you going to install debian on a new machine? |
| 15:13.58 | omarek_ | Same machine, new drive. |
| 15:14.06 | jelly | my workstations are all separate /boot, and LVM on encrypted luks |
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| 15:14.20 | jim | oh ok, so there's a debian on that machine now? |
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| 15:14.49 | omarek_ | Okay I'm going away for a while (clear snow from the yard) I'll read messages later. |
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| 15:15.44 | omarek_ | jim: always has been. |
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| 15:16.07 | jim | ok, so maybe you might convert that debian to lvm? |
| 15:16.40 | omarek_ | If everyone thinks LVM is a great idea, why not. |
| 15:16.57 | dvs | I don't like it but not enough to recommend against it |
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| 15:17.12 | jim | ok, here's an entertaining thing... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BysRGDgqtwY |
| 15:17.44 | jim | oops, unavailable. |
| 15:19.19 | ratrace | I don't or use lvm, but like dvs, can't recommend against it. except in the context of "do you really need layering at all". |
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| 15:20.30 | jim | omarek_, if you're still around... here are about 3 or 4 videos that look pretty good |
| 15:22.58 | jim | omarek_, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scMkYQxBtJ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMHFArkANP8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeltFN-bXrQ |
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| 15:41.45 | slop | Hi all <3 |
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| 15:45.07 | jim | hi |
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| 15:49.06 | slop | Question - I recently tried gnome again and leaning back towards XFCE - what do YOU prefer? Gnome has more bloat (e.g., games etc) than I care of. I know they can be uninstalled but just being picky. |
| 15:49.21 | dvs | not Gnome. |
| 15:49.53 | wsky | slop: gnome 3 is the best de linux ever had |
| 15:50.10 | wsky | slop: but sure thing, try xfce out, also kde and mate |
| 15:50.17 | diogenes_ | gnome sucks big time. |
| 15:50.33 | wsky | gnome is designed and works perfectly well |
| 15:50.51 | dvs | !start a dm war |
| 15:50.51 | dpkg | kdm is the one true way! |
| 15:50.52 | slop | I just cant get into gnome 3 - its all about preference just not my cup of tea |
| 15:50.55 | dvs | yay! |
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| 15:51.23 | slop | Sorry all not trying to start a war at all, was asking preferences. apologies! |
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| 15:51.31 | dvs | too late! |
| 15:51.43 | diogenes_ | lol |
| 15:52.18 | slop | *hides* |
| 15:54.33 | EdePopede | i like to have the option to change things as i need them. already says much about something specific without even naming it. |
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| 16:14.05 | cadmio | Hello |
| 16:14.15 | slop | hi |
| 16:14.18 | cadmio | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:14.40 | cadmio | I've chosen different fonts in firefox but it doesn't change much, Should I change something in debian? |
| 16:17.21 | jim | can a pentium machine with 1g ram, able to run all the versions from wheezy to buster? |
| 16:17.25 | metbsd | what is that command to get installation menu? |
| 16:17.36 | jim | tasksel |
| 16:17.42 | metbsd | so i can select what to install(x windows ,desktop environment |
| 16:17.54 | jim | tasksel :) |
| 16:17.55 | metbsd | thanks |
| 16:18.56 | EdePopede | jim, before i start anything after login i'm around 300MB in xfce on err... oldstable. |
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| 16:21.25 | n4dir | EdePopede: you can remove a bit of autostart for session in xfce-settings |
| 16:21.38 | n4dir | you won't go lower than ~ 200 MB |
| 16:22.00 | n4dir | sysv instead of systemd might help too, but adds other problems |
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| 16:26.26 | EdePopede | n4dir, that's all something for the other pc for the moment. but as soon as i allow the first "apps" to run inside my browser i don't really care anymore about what get used somewhere else ;) |
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| 16:26.49 | n4dir | yeah. |
| 16:26.53 | n4dir | i agree |
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| 16:27.27 | EdePopede | and first i have to find out how to end an xfce session in a clean way, without the need to kill things not terminating :| |
| 16:27.41 | n4dir | it doesn't ? |
| 16:28.08 | n4dir | you got that little Window: "log out, shutdown, reboot, whatnot", and it doesn't exit the session? |
| 16:28.23 | EdePopede | nope, i have some systemd with a gfvsd subtree and some independent stuff not terminating. |
| 16:28.45 | n4dir | i see. Well, i use xfce every other day, hence not strange i didn't run in it |
| 16:28.47 | EdePopede | i have htop running in tty2 just to see if it's still there. and it is. |
| 16:29.19 | EdePopede | maybe i should mention that's a "with everything and hot" installation |
| 16:29.34 | n4dir | including the kitchen sink ! |
| 16:29.40 | EdePopede | even things i don't plan to use. exactly ;9 |
| 16:30.01 | n4dir | i think it even autostarts more, but am not that sure |
| 16:30.02 | EdePopede | netscape's kitchen sink is gone afaik? |
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| 16:30.37 | EdePopede | > just ran a test session on the other PC after the first one seems to run like forever, killed the other processes (tracker-miner-fs, tracker-miner-apps, applet.py, agent) manually, waited for checked after one and a half hours now, and the systemd tree is gone. |
| 16:30.46 | EdePopede | this was from... some days ago |
| 16:31.07 | EdePopede | i think this time it is still running |
| 16:31.09 | n4dir | i do recall xfce right after boot 70 MB Ram usage. Window Managers could have 60. And that was not in the nineties |
| 16:31.23 | n4dir | i fail to see what more xfce does than it does 10 years ago |
| 16:31.56 | jhutchins | n4dir: That's why we like it. Quality has improved though. |
| 16:32.21 | n4dir | yeah, it being not that experimental as far changes are concerened is very good |
| 16:32.24 | freem | n4dir: maybe your answer is "it now uses gtk3" |
| 16:32.39 | n4dir | i checkd version? 16 ? whatever is in Sid right now. I didn't see any difference. ha ha |
| 16:32.51 | EdePopede | yep, all still there. last 2 times i started killing them one by one to see if some monster daemon will then terminate, one time it did, but not the other time. |
| 16:35.07 | EdePopede | some things are, well. why do i have a printer applet without even having a printer? |
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| 16:37.24 | n4dir | why do i have gvfs without even knowing what the heck it is ? |
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| 16:38.14 | freem | gvfs is, IIRC, a tool to automatically mount stuff and place links on desktop and other places |
| 16:38.31 | freem | which means for example usb storage |
| 16:38.33 | n4dir | something like that. I never heard of anyone using it though |
| 16:39.04 | freem | if you use XFCE, then various components of your DE uses it. |
| 16:39.14 | freem | it's not because nobody notice it that it's not used. |
| 16:39.41 | n4dir | worked perfectly fine without gvfs, iirc |
| 16:39.52 | jim | EdePopede, reason I ask, is I'm trying to help someone with pentium and 1g ram (uname -r right now is 3.4-9-rtai-686-pae) |
| 16:40.13 | freem | dunno. I don't use those things, I mount things by hand. But I'm not a DE user neither |
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| 16:41.18 | freem | > can a pentium machine with 1g ram, able to run all the versions from wheezy to buster? |
| 16:41.18 | freem | I have an older computer, with less than 200Mio RAM, CPU ~700MHz, debian 9 + LXDE worked fine there last time I checked. |
| 16:41.24 | freem | jim: ^ |
| 16:41.35 | freem | so your pentium with 1Gio RAM is probably good |
| 16:41.46 | freem | now, that implies not running a webbrowser, ofc |
| 16:41.52 | n4dir | yeah, similar experiences here. Ram from 256 to 1 Gig of Ram, all worked fine |
| 16:41.58 | jim | EdePopede, probably the applet talks to a print server rather than an individual printer directly... so if it installs a print server, it might install such an applet |
| 16:42.04 | n4dir | besides ... you have guessed it ... modern web-browsers |
| 16:42.08 | freem | I also need to upgrade it to debian 10... |
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| 16:42.41 | EdePopede | not sure why i'm using a DE myself, maybe because WM only was a mess of one or the other kind before i started usind KDE long ago. and having that panel thingy for the network is nice, i don't think i ever knew how to use the cli for what it does |
| 16:42.55 | freem | someday. Maybe. I mostly keep that oldie because it still have old hardware, like RS232, PCI, SCSI, etc |
| 16:43.22 | n4dir | EdePopede: well, you could start the xfce panel in any WM (or at least quite some) |
| 16:43.31 | EdePopede | jim: makes sense, should check it. does the installer offer "print server"? can't remember, may have to check the screenshots. D: |
| 16:43.34 | n4dir | fluxbox ! DO IT ! |
| 16:43.39 | freem | EdePopede: well, I started using CLI a lot, and almost only that, when I started using a tiling WM and zsh. Without them, it's a pain. |
| 16:44.05 | EdePopede | before kde there was fvwm?(2|95) |
| 16:44.28 | freem | I still like my claws, speedcrunch, zenmap, etc , though |
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| 16:45.26 | EdePopede | one of the tasks (not highest priority though) is to get a gtk free desktop. |
| 16:45.35 | n4dir | uff |
| 16:45.37 | freem | good luck with that |
| 16:45.40 | EdePopede | *nod* |
| 16:45.49 | freem | do you have a good, lightweight, mail client? |
| 16:46.05 | freem | and I only use ncurses applications when I can really find nothing better |
| 16:46.18 | freem | so, alpine or mutt are not really good alternatives to claws here :) |
| 16:46.45 | jim | EdePopede, loooong before kde :) |
| 16:47.06 | freem | a tool like gparted would also be nice, but this I can live without, I don't resize or move partitions everyday after all |
| 16:47.07 | EdePopede | ncurses isn't the worst. for text things i don't really see the need for gtk, sometimes it's just convenient. copying, resizing, this kind. |
| 16:47.35 | n4dir | someone spoke about lxqt ? the other day. |
| 16:47.36 | EdePopede | jim: iirc kde was the first de i ever used |
| 16:47.37 | freem | it's not the worst, but it's far from ideal |
| 16:48.03 | n4dir | no idea if you could get away from gtk by such choices though |
| 16:48.07 | freem | the only ncurses applications I really use are vim and aptitude, basically. Aptitude is a tool I often want to rewrite, and vim is not really ncurses |
| 16:48.21 | EdePopede | n4dir: another entry on my list, i was really waiting for something lightweighted based on Qt. which i prefer over Gtk anyway. |
| 16:48.43 | n4dir | EdePopede: the guy who spoke about it considered it more than just ok, without fanboyism. |
| 16:48.53 | EdePopede | htop and mc are also open here constantly. |
| 16:48.55 | n4dir | but that is really just hearsay |
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| 16:49.08 | freem | wants to know which drug GTK devs took when they designed their "open file" dialog |
| 16:49.17 | EdePopede | they can avoid mistakes kde may have made in the past |
| 16:49.23 | Lope | That's weird, fdisk's GPT partition type numbers changed. |
| 16:49.28 | n4dir | freem: for sure the good stuff. Oh boy, they went crazy |
| 16:49.35 | EdePopede | freem: +1^(inf) |
| 16:49.53 | freem | another tool which is gtk/qt free I use a lot is xosview |
| 16:50.16 | EdePopede | i checked some old and new firefox side by side. things sometimes were really better in the past. |
| 16:50.16 | freem | *and* it's graphical :p (it's a resource monitor, uses X11) |
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| 16:50.32 | n4dir | EdePopede: oh yes |
| 16:51.09 | n4dir | Well, traditionally the antix distribution had some interesting apps per default |
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| 16:51.25 | n4dir | and quite some non gtk/qt i seem to recall |
| 16:51.34 | freem | antix? |
| 16:51.38 | n4dir | yup |
| 16:51.39 | EdePopede | even the default settings for the open dialog are horrible. and i have to set them every time to be different. and then there's a single mini menu for the selected file and the dialog itself. |
| 16:51.56 | freem | firefox's UI sucks. |
| 16:52.12 | freem | tbh, most webfuckers UI sucks... especially when they are mainstream |
| 16:52.28 | jhutchins | freem: That must be why millions of people use firefox. |
| 16:52.39 | EdePopede | jhutchins: there are no real alternatives |
| 16:52.49 | freem | jhutchins: millions of people have always used windows. Do you think windows UI rocks? |
| 16:52.57 | n4dir | jhutchins: or as there simply is no alternative? |
| 16:53.03 | EdePopede | freem: compared to Gtk? :P |
| 16:53.08 | freem | for example. |
| 16:53.19 | EdePopede | even windows had its moments. |
| 16:53.27 | freem | I mean, non-windows WM for example, allow to move windows without seeking the borders |
| 16:53.44 | freem | s/non-windows/non-MSWindows/ |
| 16:53.54 | jhutchins | freem: As a Certified Product Engineer, I think there's a lot of good to be said about some of the Windows interface(s). |
| 16:53.55 | EdePopede | i don't even think that it was a dev problem, but more like one of policy |
| 16:54.03 | freem | that's a simple example there |
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| 16:54.33 | EdePopede | i have this Borland C++ 4.0, the docs include some MS documentation (help files). |
| 16:54.37 | freem | jhutchins: there's always something good to say to everything. For example, it can be used. Painfully, yes, but it can be used, so that's a good thing. |
| 16:54.59 | EdePopede | some of them are hard to find in the hierarchy, but i've read good things in them back then. |
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| 16:55.58 | EdePopede | fileman wasn't that bad, only it was not needed anymore after norton commander didn't switch the platform. so it was killed. |
| 16:56.13 | freem | when I was still a windows user, I used replacements for almost everytools there. It was before vista when they introduced that weird thing taking height on wide screens... |
| 16:56.23 | EdePopede | at least it was definitely better than dosshell, if anyone remembers. |
| 16:56.33 | freem | I remember dosshell yes :) |
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| 16:57.05 | EdePopede | freem, sure. VGA driver, Total Commander, IrfanView, some text editor, netscape/opera. and then it was usable :) |
| 16:57.07 | n4dir | whenever i run in Windows i install all apps i use in Linux. Once that weekend is over, i wonder why bother running Windows at all |
| 16:57.09 | freem | well, it was a bit like mc and the likes, so people can build themselves an idea even nowadays |
| 16:57.22 | freem | EdePopede: add guipro/hulk, too |
| 16:57.33 | EdePopede | huh? don't know this one |
| 16:57.37 | freem | 7zip was a better file explorer, too |
| 16:57.51 | freem | https://sourceforge.net/projects/guipro/ |
| 16:58.19 | EdePopede | but i had someting sitting in the corner of the screen with buttons, some system infos, looked a bit futuristic. norton dashboard maybe |
| 16:58.21 | freem | basically, it added the $mod+click to move/resize windows, and other nix-like thingies |
| 16:58.47 | freem | since when you start using them, it's hard as hell to go back on standard windows |
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| 16:59.20 | freem | "When some tools exists to move the windows by pressing a key and clicking with the mouse ; HulK provide a set of features to help the management of the windows." https://github.com/obsidev/guipro/ |
| 16:59.33 | freem | it's part of my survival toolkit, even if I didn't had to use it since ages |
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| 17:00.54 | EdePopede | at least notepad finally learned to use unix and mac line endings. like 2 years ago. |
| 17:00.59 | freem | wow |
| 17:01.03 | freem | champagne! |
| 17:01.28 | freem | I also heard that cmd.exe is now able to resize easily |
| 17:01.44 | freem | I still need to see it to trust that rumor, though |
| 17:01.55 | EdePopede | can't say how it would be now, but during the 90s being confronted with linux as a dos/windows user really was a revelation |
| 17:02.07 | freem | I was in the 00s |
| 17:02.38 | EdePopede | bash was do command.com what everything unix was to dos. |
| 17:02.38 | freem | was still true... when you could have a DE installed by default, at least (unlike debian sarge) |
| 17:02.52 | n4dir | lucky me i starting using computers at age 36 or 37 and ran right away into linux |
| 17:02.58 | freem | fact is, cmd.exe is worse than command.com |
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| 17:03.09 | freem | command.com could have auto-completion, for example |
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| 17:03.36 | Azrael_- | hi |
| 17:03.46 | freem | I mean, MS-DOS 6 and above were usable. The thing they put in winXP... was more a torture tool |
| 17:03.54 | EdePopede | and windows adapted some of the features over the decades. it only takes like forever. virtual desktops, panels, desktops bigger than the physical resolution. |
| 17:03.57 | azeem | that sounds off-topic? |
| 17:04.20 | Azrael_- | i want to run postgresql 9.6 side by side with postgresql 11 on buster, is this possible by just install both of them at the same time or do i have to do something special? |
| 17:04.50 | azeem | Azrael_-: it is possible, Debian just ships only one major version of Postgres |
| 17:04.54 | azeem | !postgresql |
| 17:04.54 | dpkg | PostgreSQL is a robust, mature and full-featured relational database implementing a large subset of <SQL>. Supports views, stored procedures, triggers and scripting. Packaged in Debian, read /usr/share/doc/postgresql-common/README.Debian.gz ("for the impatient"). http://wiki.debian.org/PostgreSql http://postgresql.org/ #postgresql on irc.freenode.net. See also <postgresql jessie>, <phppgadmin>, <pg readline>, <postgresql backports>. |
| 17:05.31 | azeem | Azrael_-: apt.postgresql.org has packages of each major version of Postgres, based on the Debian packages |
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| 17:05.54 | Azrael_- | i know, currently i'm running 9.6 on buster by adding the stretch-ressources. now i want to add the current version :) |
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| 17:06.45 | azeem | installing 9.6 from stretch sounds less ideal than install 9.6 for buster from apt.postgresql.org |
| 17:08.27 | Azrael_- | that was the suggestion back then from this channel when i needed 9.6 due to an old software incompatible with the newer versions. didn't know it better back then. the old software is still running but want to try out a new software and don't want this an old postgres because in the end i'll try to get rid of the old postgres and don't want to have to migrate anything again |
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| 18:00.38 | jim | how to find kernel-image-686-pae in wheezy, for the upgrade which will eventually reach buster? |
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| 18:01.44 | GNU\colossus | there's also an amd64 kernel image package available in i386 debian, if memory serves |
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| 18:14.57 | zorrow | hey, i'm trying to figure out why my vm can't reach the internal dhcp (virt-manager with libvirt-qemu). for whatever reason, every single vm doesn't get an ip, but if i ifdown enp1s0 it tells me it releases ip 192.168.122.xxx |
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| 18:19.06 | jim | GNU\colossus, this is an older pentium, it probably needs pae, but I'm not sure of that (the kernel he has running is a 686-pae, not 64 bits, 32 bits) |
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| 18:24.35 | petn-randall | jim: You can't directly upgrade from wheezy to buster, you need to go wheezy â jessie â stretch â buster. Also, IIRC Intel 80586 support was dropped somewhere on the way, so you won't be able to upgrade all the way. |
| 18:25.26 | sney | "older pentium" could also refer to a handful of budget chips from the mid 00s |
| 18:25.37 | sney | (thanks for being consistent, intel!) |
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| 18:28.16 | petn-randall | Oh right, I feel old now. |
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| 18:38.04 | jelly | jim, why are you asking this; you don't need pae unless there's more than 2GiB RAM (or was it 4GiB) total |
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| 18:39.03 | petn-randall | 4GB - PCI address space, IIRC |
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| 18:41.30 | zutat | anyway. the package descriptions also mention "modern PCs" and "older PCs". maybe the pae version also drops support for ancient hardware |
| 18:42.15 | jim | jelly, yeah, he's only got 1 g... is an upgrade from wheezy to buster (not directly of course) likely to work? |
| 18:42.29 | jim | we finally got the archive url working |
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| 19:40.58 | MikeDebian | guys.. most of the times after using a behringer UCA222 audio interface my headphones stop working as they should... only after several reboots / shutdowns, plugging and unplugging, it eventually comes back working (with debian 9). now with debian 10 it also eventually comes back to work but then without doing anything (just closing and opening a few simple apps to listen to the audio, such as video app, vlc, etc) it stops working |
| 19:41.08 | MikeDebian | then I hear some clicks on my headphones from time to time |
| 19:41.39 | MikeDebian | can't see anything wrong with pavucontrol and alsamixer |
| 19:41.46 | MikeDebian | headphones are recognized |
| 19:41.50 | MikeDebian | and selected |
| 19:41.56 | sney | if that's with pulseaudio, try this: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PulseAudio/Troubleshooting#Glitches,_skips_or_crackling |
| 19:42.02 | sney | (it improved things with my focusrite as well) |
| 19:43.16 | MikeDebian | sney, i'll have a look |
| 19:43.48 | MikeDebian | btw, which version of focusrite do you have? |
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| 19:50.09 | MikeDebian | sney, I haven't rebooted the system but I it didn't seem to help |
| 19:50.37 | MikeDebian | after restarting pulse with headphones unplugged I can many times have sound back to the headphones |
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| 19:50.53 | MikeDebian | but then, after a while and after closing / opening some apps |
| 19:50.56 | MikeDebian | it stops working |
| 19:51.23 | MikeDebian | I'll reboot now |
| 19:51.27 | MikeDebian | znc will keep me here |
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| 19:54.22 | MikeDebian | sney, it didn't fix my problem.. i rebooted with headphones unplugged... put some audio to play with "videos" app it works on speakers, plug the headphones, it works with the headphones. then close the videos app, open chrome, visit youtube and play some video, I hear a click on the headphones and no more sound again |
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| 19:54.54 | MikeDebian | it was working nicely before using the behringer audio interface... this is so frustrating... happened with debian 9 as well (not with debian 8 I beleive) |
| 19:55.04 | MikeDebian | believe* |
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| 20:15.35 | lowin | Hello. I have setup initramfs dropbear on my system to allow unlocking crypt_root remotely. but after I run "cryptroot-unlock" it unlocks the root partition and closes the connection. there are still some non root partitions that I would have to unlock after root. Is there a way to do that? |
| 20:16.29 | petn-randall | lowin: You can always ssh in and unlock those then. |
| 20:16.56 | lowin | I can't because sshd doesn't go up before mounting fstab |
| 20:17.58 | lowin | I should probably switch to a keyfile unlocking mechanism after mounting root |
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| 20:38.00 | MikeDebian | im trying to stop pulseaudio to start it in debug (verbose) mode to check what might be happening but it auto spawns every time the process is killed |
| 20:38.09 | MikeDebian | pulseaudio does not seem to have any systemd service |
| 20:38.17 | MikeDebian | how can I stop it? |
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| 20:39.42 | jmcnaught | MikeDebian: try "systemctl --user stop pulseaudio.service". There is also a pulseaudio.socket user unit that you might also need to stop. |
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| 20:42.12 | MikeDebian | still no luck |
| 20:42.23 | zutat | pactl exit ? |
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| 20:43.49 | MikeDebian | the same |
| 20:43.59 | MikeDebian | still launches /usr/bin/pulseaudio --start --log-target=syslog |
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| 20:44.12 | MikeDebian | while before was launching /usr/bin/pulseaudio --daemonize=no |
| 20:44.57 | MikeDebian | well, if Im fast enough I can then start pulseaudio in verbose mode |
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| 20:48.53 | jmcnaught | MikeDebian: you could use "systemctl --user --full edit pulseaudio.service" and change the ExecStart= line to add --verbose, then restart pulseaudio, and the messages will be in its journal ("journalctl --user --unit=pulseaudio.service") |
| 20:49.33 | jmcnaught | MikeDebian: then you can remove the new override unit from ~/.config/systemd/user/ when you want to go back to default. |
| 20:50.41 | jmcnaught | ahhh⦠"systemctl --user revert pulseaudio.service" will do that for you. |
| 20:51.40 | MikeDebian | thank you jmcnaught i'm already running it in verbose mode |
| 20:51.52 | MikeDebian | I'll have a dinner now |
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| 20:52.21 | MikeDebian | I didn't need to do that though.. being fast enough before it starts "/usr/bin/pulseaudio --start --log-target=syslog" did the trick |
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| 20:58.54 | jhutchins | MikeDebian: Under SysV there were often config files where you could specify options for system-level programs. Look in /etc/defaults, maybe dpkg -l <pulse audio package> . Look in /usr/sare/doc/pulse* |
| 21:00.03 | jhutchins | I guess you got it though. |
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| 21:14.56 | slop | hi all <3 |
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| 21:20.07 | slop | Hey do you recommend Irssi or Weechat? (or recommend different?) |
| 21:20.58 | zykotick9 | slop: try them both, salt to taste. |
| 21:21.22 | sponix | slop: for cli I use irssi, for gui hexchat |
| 21:22.15 | alexrelis[m] | slop: I use Element with the IRC bridge. |
| 21:22.52 | slop | Thanks - I noticed irssi hasnt been updated since ~2019 or so. was trying to determine if its still supported |
| 21:23.06 | alexrelis[m] | A lot of people advise not to but bridging has some benefits. One of which is the ability to view message history for when you're not online. |
| 21:24.17 | apollo13 | you do not need bridging for that though, any bouncer lets you do that as well |
| 21:24.52 | slop | ok going to switch from Irssi, the lack of updates concerns me :D (paranoia!) |
| 21:25.36 | vvor | Znc it |
| 21:25.47 | jim | how do you mount a smb share? |
| 21:26.04 | jim | used to be a program called smbmount |
| 21:26.27 | apollo13 | mount -t cifs ? |
| 21:26.41 | apollo13 | smbmount probably also still exists |
| 21:26.52 | jim | apollo13, I'll try that, thanks |
| 21:27.46 | vvor | smbmount //IP_Address/sharename /mountpoint âo username=userid,workgroup=workgroupname |
| 21:28.53 | jhutchins | Possibly password as well. |
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| 21:39.26 | sponix | jim: I just make mine with browse permission on and bring them up with nemo file manager :) |
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| 21:52.03 | sponix | jim: https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-set-up-a-samba-server-on-debian-10-buster |
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| 22:08.04 | jim | sponix, do I need a samba running, if I just want to mount a share from a win 10 box? |
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| 22:08.35 | sponix | jim: there there is smbclient cif-utils as that article points out |
| 22:08.59 | sponix | jim: and if you have a semi-modern gui file manager it can normally just "browse" the shares |
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| 22:09.23 | sponix | caja, nemo, thunar, or anything similar can likely browse them |
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| 22:10.05 | jim | ok, good enough, I'll read up and try those file managers |
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| 22:35.20 | daysun | Didn't quite come to a conclusion. is it necessary to run apt upgrade before apt full-upgrade? |
| 22:35.50 | daysun | "full-upgrade performs the function of upgrade but.." |
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| 22:42.03 | dvs | daysun: according to the upgrade instructions, yes |
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| 23:14.59 | jim | themill, are you here? |
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| 23:24.29 | jhutchins | daysun_: It's safer and smoother if you do two runs. You're changing everything on the system, do it carefully and gently. |
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| 23:37.02 | Lutin | HI guys, I tried Ubuntu and now Debian as well... when I install php modules using apt-get they don't show up with php -m and all symlinks are there |
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| 23:40.56 | Lutin | Back! Something went wrong with my client, sorry |
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| 23:41.17 | Lutin | so.. php modules in a docker Debian like container are not loaded |
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| 23:51.30 | cef | Lutin: Probably need to add them to php.ini. They might be in there commented out. |
| 23:52.10 | Lutin | cef normally that is not needed anymore |
| 23:52.28 | Lutin | cef the symlinks manage that |
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