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| 02:11.07 | ajpaon | Hi, I am looking for help getting wifi working on my new debian install. I have the base system running but the wireless adapter doesn't show up in the output of `ip`. I've also tried reinstalling with the +nonfree image but stopped because even that installer wasn't able to connect |
| 02:11.37 | sney | do you know what wifi controller you have? |
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| 02:12.12 | ajpaon | I believe some integrated intel thing. The laptop is the latest x1 carbon |
| 02:13.22 | sney | ok, look at the output of 'lspci |grep -i net', which one looks like wifi? |
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| 02:14.01 | ajpaon | Probably: Network controller: Intel Corporation Device 02f0 |
| 02:14.34 | sney | yep. ok, you need the kernel and firmware from buster-backports. |
| 02:14.39 | sney | !buster-backports |
| 02:14.40 | dpkg | Some packages intended for Bullseye (Debian 11) but recompiled for use with Buster (Debian 10) can be found in the buster-backports repository. See http://backports.debian.org/Instructions/ . Ask me about <bdo>, <backports>. |
| 02:15.13 | sney | follow these instructions ^ to enable the repository, then 'apt -t buster-backports install linux-image-amd64 firmware-iwlwifi' |
| 02:15.23 | sney | reboot when done, and you should be good to go |
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| 02:16.23 | ajpaon | It looks like these instructions assume I have a network connection on the machine in question. Is it possible to include the packages in the installation media, or install from USB? |
| 02:16.43 | sney | ah, no wired ethernet? |
| 02:16.51 | ajpaon | Unfortunately not |
| 02:17.33 | sney | ok. yes, you can download the packages from https://packages.debian.org/ and install via usb. the other option is to install bullseye, which is pre-release software, but pretty usable in its current state. |
| 02:19.18 | sney | linux-image-amd64 is a metapackage, so if you're going the former route, the actual kernel package is this one: https://packages.debian.org/buster-backports/linux-image-5.9.0-0.bpo.5-amd64 |
| 02:20.30 | ajpaon | Thanks, I'll try that approach first. I've never manually installed debian packages before; do I need to download the dependencies manually? Or maybe the tar link has everything I need? |
| 02:20.51 | sney | not the tar link, the download link at the bottom under amd64 |
| 02:21.24 | sney | debian kernel packages are self contained, so you don't need to download any extra dependencies |
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| 02:22.35 | ajpaon | Ok cool. Am I going to need to tweak grub parameters or something to install the new image? |
| 02:22.52 | sney | nope, that's automatic during the package install |
| 02:24.00 | sney | just make sure you also download and install the firmware-iwlwifi package for buster-backports from there, since your wifi driver needs it to work |
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| 02:27.35 | ajpaon | Ok, so I download the linux-image and firmware-iwlwifi packages from buster backports and dpkg -i each of them? |
| 02:27.41 | sney | yep |
| 02:28.23 | ajpaon | And just to make sure I understand, why the new kernel image? |
| 02:29.02 | sney | because the newer version of iwlwifi, your wifi driver, is a kernel module. they're built together and distributed as one package. |
| 02:29.49 | ajpaon | In that case, what is the separate firmware-iwlwifi package for? |
| 02:30.39 | sney | that's for non-free driver components. intel refuses to release the source for a few pieces of the driver, and for licensing reasons, debian keeps those separate |
| 02:31.05 | ajpaon | I understand. Thanks for answering all my questions, I really appreciate it |
| 02:31.09 | sney | np |
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| 02:43.12 | ajpaon | sney: when I attempt to install linux-image I get errors about 'ldconfig' and 'start-stop-daemon' not being found in PATH. Should I just find the .debs for these programs and install them first? |
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| 02:44.21 | ajpaon | Ah, actually I think my PATH is just not configured correctly.. let me fix that |
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| 02:45.47 | ajpaon | Ok, yeah, it works after export PATH=$PATH:/usr/sbin:/usr/local/sbin:/sbin |
| 02:45.53 | n4dir | ajpaon: in buster you have to use "su -" instead of a simple "su". |
| 02:46.02 | n4dir | to get roots $PATH |
| 02:46.15 | ajpaon | Ahhh, good to know |
| 02:46.30 | n4dir | pretty much everone runs in it. At least i did too. |
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| 02:47.01 | ectospasm | I recommend not using su, and set up sudo properly. |
| 02:47.12 | n4dir | nice. i recommend using su. |
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| 02:47.45 | n4dir | ajpaon: if it bugs you, you can create a config file for a simple su to get the path too |
| 02:47.59 | ectospasm | Then you have to maintain two passwords. I typically don't have a password set for root. |
| 02:50.30 | n4dir | thing is that recommending without knowing the exact use case is odd |
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| 02:52.03 | foxide | In nearly all use cases, using properly-configured sudo is recommended over su. |
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| 02:54.43 | ectospasm | I've only seen one instance where using `su -` and sudo didn't, and I haven't sat down and tried to figure out a better way to do it. Something about the -c option to su |
| 02:55.10 | ectospasm | I'd have to find the example again, and it's something specific to my work. |
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| 02:57.16 | n4dir | i can state the opposite just as well. But what i need and don't need doesn't make me recommend the one over the other to someone else |
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| 03:03.01 | ajpaon | About my original issue, now that I have the new linux image and firmware installed, I'm able to see the wireless adapter in `ip a`. But I can't connect to wifi because I don't have wpa_supplicant installed. Is it reasonable to install it using a flash drive? Or is there some other way to connect? |
| 03:03.28 | ajpaon | I tried downloading and installing wpa_supplicant from packages.debian.org but there were dependency errors |
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| 03:04.32 | sponix | ajpaon: you are probably better off just using the installer that has the non-free firmware included |
| 03:04.57 | n4dir | or, if you are that far already, use a liveCD and install what is needed via a chroot |
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| 03:05.25 | n4dir | a live CD with internet access, duh. Debian live probably isn't it |
| 03:05.38 | ajpaon | sponix: hm, I did try going down that road but I wasn't able to connect to wifi in the installer |
| 03:05.47 | ajpaon | So I figured I would end up with the same issue after install |
| 03:05.59 | sponix | ajpaon: yeah, seems likely |
| 03:07.13 | ajpaon | n4dir: I don't totally understand your suggestion |
| 03:08.32 | n4dir | You have a live iso like Ubuntu not shy about non-free firmware. You boot it. You mount the installation harddisk, mount proc/sys/dev there from the live too. You do "chroot /media/mounted_installation_disk; and you got internet from the live iso and can install what is needed |
| 03:08.59 | n4dir | sounds long way around and confusing, but with a how-to it is pretty straight forward. Many how-tos out there |
| 03:09.52 | ajpaon | I see, it does sound do-able |
| 03:10.09 | n4dir | or download all the dependencies of wpa_supplicant from debian.packages.org to a stick. Depends, to me both seems a bit exhausting. |
| 03:10.37 | n4dir | chroot is something which can always be useful. If you are not in a hurry it is worth to look at it |
| 03:10.48 | n4dir | !chroot |
| 03:10.50 | n4dir | damnit |
| 03:10.55 | ajpaon | Do you think it is not reasonable to bundle all the dependencies I need on a flash drive and install from there like I was imagining? I was hoping to find a way to download a deb file with all dependencies. |
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| 03:11.57 | n4dir | i sure don't know of a way, but doing it manually one by one (well: again, from a live iso would work. apt-get something download only, then put the deb's on a stick) |
| 03:12.13 | n4dir | good luck, you will get it sorted. Just annoying |
| 03:12.31 | ajpaon | Thanks. So close.. |
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| 06:28.47 | ajpaon | Hi, I'm having trouble getting audio working on my new debian install. aplay -l outputs "no soundcards found" |
| 06:29.00 | ajpaon | I think I'm missing some firmware but I'm not sure where to get it. |
| 06:29.36 | ajpaon | the sound card (from lspci) is "Intel Corporation Device [8086:02c8]" |
| 06:34.35 | sponix2ipfw | ajpaon: you probably want to enable non-free and contrib is your sources |
| 06:35.37 | sponix2ipfw | Then install the Linux-firmware package(s) |
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| 06:37.12 | sponix2ipfw | !firmware |
| 06:37.12 | dpkg | Firmware is software to operate electronic devices, usually contained in EPROM or flash memory. Some Linux kernel drivers require firmware to be provided from userspace, notably for <WiFi> devices. Most firmware files are not part of a Debian release as they do not conform to the <DFSG>; some are available via <contrib> and <non-free> packages, ask me about <search>. See also <installer firmware>. http://wiki.debian.org/Firmware |
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| 06:46.22 | ajpaon | I added non-free and contrib, and installed firmware-linux-nonfree but I still see the same error after a reboot. Anything else I might be missing? |
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| 06:48.59 | n4dir | lspci -k | grep -i -A 3 Audio |
| 06:49.21 | n4dir | look if that shows a kernel driver in use. Probably does, but doesn't hurt to check |
| 06:49.39 | n4dir | or a simple: lspci, and look "manually" what you can find |
| 06:51.43 | n4dir | well, you did that already. oops |
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| 06:55.26 | ajpaon | Yeah, the kernel driver is definitely there |
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| 06:56.53 | n4dir | ajpaon: there is #lau (linux audio users) and #opensourcemusicians, perhaps give it a try in #linux too |
| 06:56.58 | n4dir | audio is weird stuff |
| 06:57.16 | n4dir | perhaps someone knows here, but in the meantime you could ask elsewhere too |
| 06:57.39 | ajpaon | thanks for the pointers, #lau sounds like a good lead |
| 06:57.59 | n4dir | both former channels are not outstanding active. Give it time. |
| 06:58.01 | n4dir | good luck |
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| 07:27.37 | PaddyF | i would like to make a list of packages ordered by their priority. so far, i have looked at debootstrap's base install. they all seem to be "required". but is there any order within that group of packages? |
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| 07:42.36 | ratrace | ,v libgcrypt |
| 07:42.38 | judd | No package named 'libgcrypt' was found in amd64. |
| 07:42.55 | ratrace | ,v libgcrypt20 |
| 07:42.56 | judd | Package: libgcrypt20 on amd64 -- jessie: 1.6.3-2+deb8u4; jessie-security: 1.6.3-2+deb8u8; stretch: 1.7.6-2+deb9u3; stretch-security: 1.7.6-2+deb9u3; buster: 1.8.4-5; bullseye: 1.8.7-2; sid: 1.8.7-2; experimental: 1.9.1-1 |
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| 07:51.33 | ratrace | PaddyF: something based on dpkg-query -W -f='${Priority} ${binary:Package}\n' | sort ? |
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| 08:07.54 | jaalto | What is the channel to ask about exim? |
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| 08:11.48 | jelly | would you believe #exim |
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| 08:15.41 | ratrace | gasps |
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| 08:20.12 | jaalto | jelly: ok |
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| 08:21.32 | jaalto | About debian: Anyone know why exim config dc_smarthost='cante.net:587' still connect to smarthost port 25 under debug 'exim -d -v -qff' (Connecting to cante.net [85.156.68.68]:25...) |
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| 08:23.51 | jaalto | Oh, it needed double colon(..) => dc_smarthost='cante.net:587' |
| 08:24.08 | jaalto | correcton: that is (::) |
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| 08:26.56 | ratrace | D'oh Exim! |
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| 08:58.20 | Haohmaru | huh, i bring the PC here out of suspend, as every other day, and i see 50% cpu usage (that's one whole core) ... pulseaudio |
| 09:01.14 | ratrace | well, well! |
| 09:01.43 | ratrace | Haohmaru: -k it, -D it ? |
| 09:02.18 | Haohmaru | you assume i'm a linux h4x0r and understand what that is |
| 09:02.36 | Haohmaru | it stopped btw.. it was thinking for about a minute |
| 09:03.24 | ratrace | pulseaudio -k ; pulseaudio -D that kills it, and re-daemonizes it. ; run as your user, not root |
| 09:04.14 | ratrace | and yes after all these years I fully expect you to pass the lee nukx h4xx0r certification. you already got M$CrapDows 10.0 H8er cert. :) |
| 09:05.31 | PaddyF | :) |
| 09:06.56 | PaddyF | !daemons |
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| 09:10.05 | jelly | ,kernels |
| 09:10.06 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.10.0-trunk-686 (5.10.2-1~exp1); sid: 5.10.0-2-686-pae (5.10.9-1); bullseye: 5.10.0-2-686-pae (5.10.9-1); buster-backports: 5.9.0-0.bpo.5-686-pae (5.9.15-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-13-686-pae (4.19.160-2); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.13-686 (4.19.160-2~deb9u1); jessie- |
| 09:10.07 | judd | backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1) |
| 09:11.44 | Haohmaru | ratrace i don't use the audio on that PC, it's for CAD'ing and stuff.. technically it has a built-in soundcard tho |
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| 09:14.51 | Haohmaru | it's the first time i see high cpu usage after suspend tho |
| 09:16.04 | PaddyF | maybe you dont look often enough |
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| 09:20.32 | ratrace | suspend in linux often breaks things. hibernate even more. it's usually to be blamed on faulty acpi, drivers or firmware. |
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| 09:25.57 | Haohmaru | PaddyF my cpu monitor is part of the systemtray |
| 09:26.02 | strk | Is anyone using firefox-esr in Debian-10 ? |
| 09:26.10 | Haohmaru | it's eye-pockingly visible, i watch it |
| 09:26.30 | Haohmaru | it's a habbit from crapdows, i eyeball it a lot there coz wuauserv.exe and other crap |
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| 09:30.10 | ratrace | !tell strk about anyone |
| 09:30.27 | ratrace | that said ... a lot of people, me included. |
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| 09:31.12 | strk | ratrace: do you have any problem seeing the firefox icon in window list and alt-tab menu ? |
| 09:31.49 | strk | ok, rephrasing: can anyone think of a reason why my firefox-esr icon shows fine on an app launcher but NOT in the alt-tab menu and windows list in the panel ? |
| 09:31.53 | Haohmaru | no, but that icon is affected by your icon themes |
| 09:32.34 | Haohmaru | i'd think the alt+tab "menu" comes from the window manager, maybe |
| 09:32.53 | ratrace | strk: you should rephrase your question for the specific DE. I have no "firefox icon", nor a "window list", nor a "alt-tab" menu. |
| 09:33.39 | Haohmaru | i do, and the icon there doesn't look like the official firefox icon, because i'm using a more pimped-up icon theme |
| 09:34.45 | strk | Haohmaru: I'm using Mate as DE |
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| 09:35.01 | Haohmaru | my condolesence |
| 09:35.02 | shtrb | strk, alt tab invoke a DE specific software which loads specific icons (based on theme and setup) |
| 09:38.21 | Haohmaru | i don't alt+tab much.. i use multiple virtual desktops |
| 09:38.38 | Haohmaru | that's so convenient |
| 09:39.15 | shtrb | I'm Sorry for using non family friendly words, but does anyone have suggestion for Debian packages I could connect and maintain to ESXi and vSphere ? |
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| 09:49.55 | jelly | shtrb, no packages that I know of, apart from the web browser and ssh. VMware has a remote console client for linux but it does not come in a .deb |
| 09:51.02 | shtrb | Thank you , I just found out I can at least connect via virsh to it, which is something I can live with :) |
| 09:51.34 | shtrb | I just hope I would be able to get some info , manage them |
| 09:52.30 | jelly | apt-cache search vmomi |
| 09:53.24 | jelly | there are ruby and python bindings packaged, but no pretty client like rvc or pvc |
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| 09:55.59 | shtrb | thank you jelly |
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| 10:14.29 | Lope | ratrace, sent you PM |
| 10:15.47 | ratrace | I don't do PMs, sorry... :/ |
| 10:16.26 | jelly | nothing wrong with prime ministers |
| 10:16.37 | shtrb | lol |
| 10:17.42 | ratrace | gaah! innuendos.... again! :) |
| 10:19.56 | Lope | ratrace, you're german right? not that that should matter for this recommendation... |
| 10:20.15 | ratrace | I'm not. not that there's something wrong with being a german :) |
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| 10:20.34 | Lope | printf "--ignore-errors\n--restrict-filenames\n-o /dm-itx-zp/scratch/%(title)s.%(ext)s\n-f bestaudio\n" > /etc/youtube-dl.conf |
| 10:20.35 | Lope | sudo pip3 install --upgrade youtube_dl || sudo apt install -y youtube-dl; youtube-dl 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-NajbC9ihg&list=PLEFCCADDAEC147B64' |
| 10:20.43 | Lope | oh, dunno why I thought u were german. |
| 10:21.21 | Lope | Probably from seeing a whois in DE or whatever. |
| 10:21.26 | ratrace | sometimes I'm germane, tho |
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| 10:26.00 | ratrace | Lope: sudo pip3 install NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO !!!!! never sudo pip! ever! |
| 10:26.08 | Lope | the above was just for testing, check copyrights etc :p |
| 10:26.30 | Lope | ratrace, really, I thought that was better, so it would be available to all users etc. |
| 10:26.46 | Lope | I mean it's equivalent to `sudo apt install -y youtube-dl` right? |
| 10:27.03 | ratrace | in _this_ particular case, probably no damage done, but using pip3 as root will sooner or later clobber your packaged python modules and potentially even break your OS |
| 10:27.04 | Lope | so u reckon pip should always be an unprivileged user. |
| 10:27.29 | Lope | ratrace, oh i see. So rather pip for each user? |
| 10:27.33 | ratrace | Lope: abso lute ly not equivalen. pip is a python package manager that has no ide about apt installed ones, and the other way around |
| 10:27.47 | shtrb | Lope, you should not use sudo pip3 |
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| 10:27.54 | ratrace | Lope: you can set up a shared virtualenv thta individual users can use |
| 10:28.06 | shtrb | Lope, use venv ! |
| 10:28.29 | ratrace | you can alias or script youtube-dl to actually /use/directly/from/virtualenv's/bin/youtube-dl |
| 10:28.56 | ratrace | with virtualenv, you don't actaully have to "activate" it. you can use paths in $virtualenv_root/bin/ directly |
| 10:28.57 | shtrb | ,v youtube-dl |
| 10:28.58 | judd | Package: youtube-dl on amd64 -- stretch: 2017.05.18.1-1; stretch-backports: 2019.01.17-1.1~bpo9+1; buster: 2019.01.17-1.1; buster-backports: 2021.01.08-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 2021.01.08-1; sid: 2021.01.08-1; bullseye-multimedia: 2021.01.24.1-dmo1; buster-multimedia: 2021.01.24.1-dmo1; sid-multimedia: 2021.01.24.1-dmo1 |
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| 10:30.17 | ratrace | Lope: so, one way, you could _carefully_ as root, create a virtualenv somewhere in, say, /usr/local/youtube-dl-venv; then activate it; then pip install youtube-dl |
| 10:30.37 | ratrace | Lope: then for each user you can alias youtube-dl to /usr/local/youtube-dl-venv/bin/youtube-dl |
| 10:30.58 | Lope | ratrace, nice! |
| 10:31.14 | Lope | it's not that much of an issue though, I could just install it for one user in my current use-case. |
| 10:31.50 | Lope | But that's great advice in terms of using $PATH, is that what you're referring to right? |
| 10:31.56 | ratrace | right. but my point is, a virtualenv is just a PATH munge. you can run stuff in its /bin/ directory directly. python started there will already be hardcoded for libs inside the venv |
| 10:32.18 | Lope | sounds like how NVM works. |
| 10:32.23 | ratrace | which is not that obvious, so one may think that venvs are unwieldly as one has to "activate" it first |
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| 10:33.02 | ratrace | Lope: yes. a venv alters the PATH so that, eg, python3 is first checked as (venv root)/bin/python3 |
| 10:33.26 | ratrace | which means you don't have to "source" to activate it. you can use the absolute paths there directly. |
| 10:33.27 | Lope | are you saying tou can't just slap export PATH="$PATH:/some/python/shit" in .bashrc ? |
| 10:33.48 | ratrace | Lope: you could but that's permanent. "activating" a venv does that temporarily (until you "deactivate") |
| 10:34.00 | ratrace | OR .... you could address the paths inside venv absolutely, so you don't clobber your PATH |
| 10:34.06 | Lope | well, it's only as permanent as updating .bashrc? |
| 10:34.24 | Lope | What's the reluctance to add a dir to $PATH ? |
| 10:34.32 | ratrace | yes, but by "permanent" I mean it will munge the PATH for _every_ bash session by that user. not something you would always want |
| 10:35.05 | Lope | It doesn't bother me :) Should it? |
| 10:35.21 | Lope | all your $PATH are belong to us. |
| 10:35.59 | ratrace | depends. a script run as your user that tries `python3` without absolute path will run the virtualenv's. which is a container of sorts, doesn't have access to global site-packages |
| 10:36.11 | Lope | <ratrace> Lope: then for each user you can alias youtube-dl to /usr/local/youtube-dl-venv/bin/youtube-dl <<< seems reasonable |
| 10:36.30 | ratrace | so.... since this is python...... comply with PEP20: The Zen of python and explicit > implicit. use absolute paths |
| 10:36.32 | Lope | oh reheheheally. Interesting. |
| 10:36.55 | Lope | I'm not familiar with virtual envs, will Check them out some time. |
| 10:37.30 | Lope | ratrace, BTW bud do you have any snippets for firing up a KVM VM for quickly just booting an SSD with a VNC path slapped on it? |
| 10:37.37 | ratrace | literally just a directory with preinstalled python that's hardcoded to use libs inside that venv _first_ . optionally (sym)linked to global site-packages |
| 10:37.59 | ratrace | Lope: sorry, nope |
| 10:38.06 | Lope | I'd like to be able to script KVM. Cos I use libvirt normally, but libvirt is not that nice for a quick script thing. |
| 10:38.21 | Lope | ratrace, I thought you said you use kvm directly? |
| 10:38.26 | ratrace | I script all my VMs, but I don't do VNC |
| 10:38.28 | Lope | qemu-kvm |
| 10:38.39 | Lope | ah, how do you get a view on them? spice? |
| 10:39.12 | ratrace | Lope: my VMs are servre role, so I use whatever is default, which I think is is spice, yes |
| 10:39.17 | Lope | If you've got one with spice, that would also be cool, if you have one that you could share. |
| 10:39.26 | ratrace | (unless I gpu passthru for the gaming VM) |
| 10:40.00 | ratrace | Lope: there's no separate incantation for that. it's default. you actually need -display none to disable it |
| 10:40.01 | Lope | <ratrace> literally just a directory ... sounds good |
| 10:40.21 | Lope | ratrace, yeah, I mean I'm not worried about the display aspect. |
| 10:40.29 | Lope | Just looking for a snippet to get me going |
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| 10:40.38 | Lope | I can adjust the display aspect of it. |
| 10:41.11 | ratrace | Lope: here's one: https://bpa.st/D6PDA |
| 10:42.05 | ratrace | with this I start the external backup/recovery HDD in a VM to update it. there's bootable debian on that, zfs rpool encrypted, with workstation data backup on it oto |
| 10:42.11 | Lope | OMG, looking at this for 3 seconds, I can feel myself slipping to the dark side. I can already feel I might stop using libvirtd :/ |
| 10:42.21 | Lope | fucking ratrace. |
| 10:42.23 | Lope | hahaha |
| 10:42.33 | ratrace | you _should_ stop using libvirtd. it's just hand waving for the GUI |
| 10:42.39 | Lope | you always have to come with your 1337 shit hahaha |
| 10:42.44 | shtrb | lol |
| 10:42.45 | ratrace | lol |
| 10:44.04 | ratrace | if you added -display none it'd start fully headless (it'll still show the virtual vga to the VM, which you can additionally disable with -vga none if you wish) |
| 10:44.05 | shtrb | Speaking of libvirtd how can I pass qemu cirrus graphic option for vms ? |
| 10:44.11 | mripx | wild |
| 10:44.16 | Lope | I've literally got 3 scripts on my PC now that start with 'ratrace-blah-blah-blah' I've extracted the value out of one of them so far... |
| 10:44.38 | ratrace | hahahahaha |
| 10:44.51 | shtrb | has a ratrace solution text file :D |
| 10:45.12 | Lope | ratrace, sounds good, tips noted! |
| 10:45.54 | ratrace | here's the WIP hack for the gaming VM.... if you need it too. https://bpa.st/27JWM |
| 10:46.39 | ratrace | maybe I should shove that into the gpu passthru wiki.... https://wiki.debian.org/VGAPassthrough |
| 10:47.24 | Lope | ratrace, I worked on my unshare chroot inception script til 3am. adding in configurations. The mount/unmount for interactive use or installing bootloaders etc is all working nicely. almost finished the config aspects. Next will be to test an install from scratch with it. My script also includes stripe and mirror installs, but I'll finish those at some point in future, when i need to do such installs again. |
| 10:48.02 | Lope | It's been time consuming as hell making this script. But it's accelerating. It's worth it. Doing these installs manually is a killer. And I generally always make a few mistakes or forget things when doing it manually. |
| 10:48.10 | jelly | understood some of those words |
| 10:48.59 | ratrace | Lope: I hear ya. I install debian (and derivatives) only via debootstrap, and getting the (ansible playbook) automation to do it was time consuming |
| 10:49.05 | Lope | ratrace, are you a debian contributor?? |
| 10:49.16 | Lope | (one question-mark intended) |
| 10:49.17 | ratrace | not yet, still learning packaging |
| 10:49.33 | ratrace | but ye, I intend to grab some maintainership mentorship later this year |
| 10:50.09 | Lope | Yeah, I pretty much only do debootstraps since you indoctrinated me. It's been a blessing and a curse. Can't bear normal installers anymore, for anything other than a throwaway test install. |
| 10:50.37 | Lope | My previous only experience debootstrapping was installing debian on Android. |
| 10:50.40 | ratrace | right. I only do zfs or btrfs rootfs atop of LUKS and the installer can'd to it anyway |
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| 10:51.09 | Lope | anything the installers can do, they do poorly for my needs, so I don't bother. |
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| 10:51.23 | Lope | debian/proxmox/ubuntu |
| 10:51.35 | Lope | Not that I'd actually run ubuntu anymore though. |
| 10:51.47 | Lope | Or proxmox for that matter. |
| 10:52.06 | ratrace | I was happy to hear Ubuntu would grow ZFS installer capabilities but then they went ahead and shat all over that with their NIH zsys.... |
| 10:52.09 | Lope | Proxmox's value proposition is extremely questionable for my needs. |
| 10:52.28 | Lope | I've developed a strong dislike of proxmox. I've got 1 proxmox server left. I think it'll be my last. |
| 10:52.50 | dreamer | I'm also migrating away from it, but mostly because I'm primarily using docker these days |
| 10:52.55 | Lope | ratrace, ubuntu has NIH hardcore. |
| 10:53.05 | Lope | dreamer, I'm shuddering. |
| 10:53.10 | Lope | I HATE docker. |
| 10:53.15 | dreamer | I started using proxmox when using containers was still relatively hard to do. and docker didn't exist |
| 10:53.18 | dreamer | poor you |
| 10:53.19 | Lope | but okay, glad it's working for you. |
| 10:53.21 | dreamer | I love it |
| 10:53.21 | dreamer | makes my life so much easier |
| 10:53.42 | dreamer | I hate having to provision entire userspaces just to run a tiny application |
| 10:53.43 | Lope | gross |
| 10:54.01 | dob1 | ,v postgresql |
| 10:54.02 | judd | Package: postgresql on amd64 -- jessie: 9.4+165+deb8u3; jessie-security: 9.4+165+deb8u4; stretch: 9.6+181+deb9u3; stretch-security: 9.6+181+deb9u3; buster-security: 11+200+deb10u3; buster: 11+200+deb10u4; bullseye: 13+224; sid: 13+224 |
| 10:54.43 | shtrb | ratrace, your script would help in that wiki |
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| 10:55.35 | Lope | ratrace, does your GPU passthru hide the fact that it's a VM to prevent nvidia code 43? |
| 10:55.37 | ratrace | shtrb: yeah. there were a lot of gotchas and hoops to get it finally working properly |
| 10:55.50 | ratrace | Lope: naturally, it wouldn't run otherwise |
| 10:55.54 | Lope | Cool |
| 10:56.02 | Lope | Nvidia are such assholes for that. |
| 10:56.13 | Lope | And the fact that it's so easy to circumvent. |
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| 10:56.24 | Lope | It's like why be douchebags at all. |
| 10:57.43 | ratrace | also... and I have yet to get hit by that.... some games will detect VM and refuse to run |
| 10:57.56 | Lope | ratrace, I've 2 Nvidia GPU's exactly the same make and model for my new system. I'm planning to do passthru. Can I just blacklist all nvidia stuff somehow? Any tips on that? |
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| 10:58.06 | Lope | For my linux GPU I've got an old ATI GPU. |
| 10:58.06 | ratrace | mostly, if not only, games that do multiplayer competitive herp derp with punkbuster-wannabe cheat prevention something |
| 10:58.40 | Lope | I've never done IOMMU before because I've been on intel 4th gen i5 K series which gimped IOMMU. |
| 10:58.40 | ratrace | I've grown too old for competitive multiplayer FPS, them kids these days and their sub 100msec reaction times lol |
| 10:59.12 | ratrace | Lope: you switch the PCI LANE (very important!) to the vfio-pci driver, for each lane you want to pass through |
| 10:59.17 | Lope | ratrace, does Overwatch run? |
| 10:59.41 | Lope | ratrace, thinking to pass thru 2 GPU's to one VM |
| 11:00.05 | Lope | interesting, so you're switching the LANE, not the PCI-ID? |
| 11:00.32 | Lope | I remember wendell from L1Techs talking about difficulties doing IOMMU with multiple of the same card. |
| 11:00.37 | Lope | (which I have) |
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| 11:01.04 | ratrace | Lope: you actually switch device by its ID, but you have to switch all the devices on the same lane due to how iommu works |
| 11:01.35 | ratrace | which was a particular problem for my old workstation that had .... incredibly...... ALL the USB ports on the same lane, so I couldn't give some to the VM and some to the host (keyboard and mouse for starters) |
| 11:01.47 | ratrace | had to buy pcie usb extension thingy |
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| 11:02.21 | ratrace | Lope: and then another problem hit 5.8 kernel where all the iommu groups changed and regrouped and I could no longer run my VM because all of a sudden the gpu was in the same group with the NIC |
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| 11:02.28 | ratrace | but that got fixed for 5.9+ |
| 11:02.39 | ratrace | so, bullseye will be safe |
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| 11:03.44 | ratrace | Lope: "multiple of the same card" if you mean two identical devices with identical pciiids .... yes, I can imagine that to be a problem because you assing vfio-pci driver by their pciids |
| 11:03.59 | ratrace | that's why for my new workstation I bought two different cards :) |
| 11:04.31 | ratrace | (which has more to do with me not needing more than a cheap-o fanless gpu for the host, and the rtx3060ti behemoth for the gaming VM) |
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| 11:06.26 | ratrace | Lope: another important bit, you need to reorder dependencies in module loading, by creating explicit deps, so that vfio-pci driver grabs the hardware you want to pass through _before_ its native driver |
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| 11:08.17 | ratrace | Lope: like this: https://bpa.st/OCGKC this does BOTH vfio-pci reassigning, and softdep reordering so xhci_snd doesn't grab the audio thingy, on my setup. yours might be different, I don't know what defines the module ordering.... bios maybe. |
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| 11:33.17 | Lope | amazing that they managed to screw up IOMMU so badly in 5.8 |
| 11:33.57 | Lope | ratrace, yeah, but I actually want to passthru all of the identical cards to the same VM, so hopefully will be fine. |
| 11:34.49 | ksk | Yo. Is there anything about the upcoming libgcrypt vulnerability you can point me to? |
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| 11:35.51 | Lope | ratrace, interesting. BTW My Gigabyte AM4 A520I (ITX) motherboard has IOMMU and bifurcation enabled, lolz. |
| 11:35.52 | ksk | nevermind, found something via google, and there seems to be not CVE yet. ( https://www.helpnetsecurity.com/2021/01/29/libgcrypt-vulnerability/ ) |
| 11:36.02 | Lope | It can bifurcate the 16X slot into 4x 4 |
| 11:36.23 | Lope | Only problem is there doesn't seem to be a riser that can break the single PCI slot into 4. |
| 11:36.36 | Lope | I saw one riser that can break it out into 2... for 93 GBP |
| 11:36.39 | Lope | Seems a bit steep |
| 11:37.06 | ksk | ,v libgcrypt20 |
| 11:37.08 | judd | Package: libgcrypt20 on amd64 -- jessie: 1.6.3-2+deb8u4; jessie-security: 1.6.3-2+deb8u8; stretch: 1.7.6-2+deb9u3; stretch-security: 1.7.6-2+deb9u3; buster: 1.8.4-5; bullseye: 1.8.7-2; sid: 1.8.7-2; experimental: 1.9.1-1 |
| 11:37.45 | ksk | Okay, seems Debian is not effected at all, only "1.9.0" has the flaw according to upstream. |
| 11:38.11 | Lope | ratrace, thanks for the vfio.conf I've added it to my ratrace stash. |
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| 11:43.05 | ratrace | "The Ratrace Stash" :)) |
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| 11:43.41 | ratrace | ksk: doesn't have a CVE yet, so hard to track via Debian security tracker. but.... apparently only affects Experimental |
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| 11:45.00 | ksk | yap, thanks for taking a look :) |
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| 13:41.22 | lt | anyway aware/willing to share a script to install for new debian box for all available/often needed fonts? |
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| 13:42.29 | lt | it can be very tedious job to find the exact missing font that breaks pdf file style! |
| 13:43.41 | themill | PDFs should embed the fonts they need. If they don't, then #debian is unlikely to know what fonts they use. |
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| 13:49.33 | lt | themill: yes but when editing pdf with an application like libreoffice draw, if the font is not installed then it will be distorted |
| 13:50.13 | lt | I was trying to edit a file that I've created on my previous debian box but I forgot which fonts I installed back then |
| 13:50.44 | lt | now it's not likely that I'm going to ever be able to edit correctly and have to rebuild from scratch |
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| 13:53.54 | themill | pdffonts will tell you the fonts that are used |
| 13:54.20 | themill | but yes, PDFs are not designed to be edited and you can never edit the correctly |
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| 14:03.18 | lt | themill: thank you for the break news :)) |
| 14:03.31 | lt | can never be edited correctly ... awsome |
| 14:04.05 | lt | pdffonts part of poppler-utils |
| 14:04.07 | lt | ? |
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| 14:50.49 | ratrace | DSA-4843-1 , linux security update ... am I halucinating or is this quite an unusual thing, the kernel rebased to latest upstream 4.19 outside of a debian point release? |
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| 14:51.14 | greycat | Security updates can happen at any time. |
| 14:51.34 | ratrace | that's not what I mean ... I mean kernel bumping version outside of debian point release |
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| 14:52.09 | ratrace | 4.19.171 from 4.19.160 |
| 14:52.39 | greycat | If the security team felt that was the only way to fix the security bug, they'll do it. |
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| 14:53.50 | ratrace | right, but usually fixes are backported, and kernel version rebased at point releases. note: usually. right? |
| 14:55.15 | ratrace | and hold on..... 4.19.171 does not contain the futext fixes.... |
| 14:55.17 | ratrace | *futex |
| 14:56.21 | ratrace | !cve lookup CVE-2021-3347 |
| 14:56.21 | dpkg | Information about the security advisory CVE-2021-3347 may be found at https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2021-3347 |
| 14:56.32 | ratrace | oh it does. okay |
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| 14:59.55 | ratrace | cuz that landed in 172, so that's a bump to 171 plus patches fro 172.... bit messy. |
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| 15:08.47 | Rodon | nmtui doenst show wifi list though ncmli/nm-applet all works fine.. does nmtui need any settings ? |
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| 15:10.51 | jstolarek | old webpage used to have a list of released security updates. Where can I find this list on the new webpage? |
| 15:11.31 | greycat | https://www.debian.org/security/#DSAS |
| 15:11.37 | jstolarek | thanks |
| 15:11.52 | greycat | It doesn't have the linux one yet. |
| 15:12.25 | jstolarek | yes, that's what I wanted to check |
| 15:12.28 | greycat | there's also https://lists.debian.org/debian-security-announce/2021/threads.html |
| 15:12.57 | jelly | lts kernels themselves are _already_ just backports of fixes |
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| 15:13.43 | jelly | (except when they're not, because upstream's choices of what goes into longterm kernels are sometimes weird) |
| 15:14.19 | ratrace | !dsa lookup DSA-4843-1 |
| 15:14.19 | dpkg | Information about the Debian Security Announcement DSA-4843-1 may be found at http://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/DSA-4843-1 . Ask me about <DSA>, <tracker of doom>, <debsecan>. |
| 15:14.36 | jstolarek | BTW. is there maybe a way to access the old homepage? |
| 15:14.45 | ratrace | jelly: "just" backports of fixes AND new features |
| 15:16.28 | ratrace | (and yes, sometimes they're not even backports of fixes) |
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| 15:17.43 | MrBuck | what is best desktop recorder for debian os users? |
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| 15:19.28 | jstolarek | OBS? |
| 15:19.51 | MrBuck | jstolarek: is it a name? not available in software stire right? |
| 15:19.56 | MrBuck | store* |
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| 15:20.47 | MrBuck | https://obsproject.com/ got it will explore Thank you |
| 15:21.25 | MrBuck | the one packaged in software store arn't even launching after installation example RecordmyDesktop app |
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| 15:22.44 | jstolarek | MrBuck: the package is called obs-studio |
| 15:23.01 | greycat | judd v obs-studio |
| 15:23.02 | judd | Package: obs-studio on amd64 -- stretch: 0.15.4+dfsg1-1+b1; buster: 22.0.3+dfsg1-1; bullseye: 26.1.2+dfsg1-1+b1; sid: 26.1.2+dfsg1-1+b1; stretch-multimedia: 1:19.0.2-dmo2+deb9u1; buster-multimedia: 1:23.2.1-dmo1+deb10u1; bullseye-multimedia: 1:26.1.1-dmo2; sid-multimedia: 1:26.1.1-dmo2 |
| 15:23.08 | n4dir | is software store even a debian thing? |
| 15:23.09 | jstolarek | BTW what do you mean by software store? |
| 15:23.30 | MrBuck | jstolarek: Thank you |
| 15:23.39 | greycat | most likely it means they're either not on Debian at all, or they come from a foreign paradigm |
| 15:23.50 | MrBuck | I often search in software store to know if there are any software available |
| 15:23.54 | MrBuck | it is handy to search |
| 15:24.01 | jelly | or there's a Gnome package called Software that looks like a store |
| 15:24.06 | greycat | the more they speak, the more I lean toward "not Debian" |
| 15:24.07 | MrBuck | I am using debian 10 |
| 15:24.08 | MrBuck | gnome |
| 15:24.28 | jelly | MrBuck, (we don't know which app that store might be, and are guessing) |
| 15:24.32 | Ede|Popede | maybe something gnome? |
| 15:24.32 | jstolarek | still don't know what's software store. Is that some gnome app? |
| 15:25.14 | MrBuck | could be Gnome software center sorry |
| 15:25.33 | MrBuck | I use apt to install |
| 15:25.48 | MrBuck | but search there if any software I want already exist |
| 15:26.08 | MrBuck | GNOME Software Its name |
| 15:27.11 | ratrace | is that thing integrated with flathub on Debian? on Ubuntu, for example, it's integrated with snap store so it interleaves results from both apt repos and snaps |
| 15:27.37 | jelly | ratrace, it's also integrated with fwupd on ubuntu |
| 15:27.39 | ratrace | so if you have flatpak installed, will gnome software center do the same, on Debian? anyone knows? |
| 15:27.48 | jelly | "you got new firmware!" |
| 15:28.00 | ratrace | is tom hanks involved in any way? :)) |
| 15:28.45 | Haohmaru | gnome, and its f*cked up names |
| 15:28.50 | jelly | run, firmware, run |
| 15:29.16 | ratrace | life is like a box of firmware upgrades. you never know what you'll get. |
| 15:29.45 | Haohmaru | innocent.rootkit32.drv |
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| 15:33.07 | Brigo | ,v gnome-software |
| 15:33.08 | judd | Package: gnome-software on amd64 -- stretch: 3.22.5-1; buster: 3.30.6-5; bullseye: 3.38.0-3; sid: 3.38.0-3 |
| 15:33.58 | Brigo | MrBuck, it is that aplication i have it install too. It has a tab for configuring sources. By default it gets them from sources.list, i think. |
| 15:34.04 | n4dir | gnome feels more and more like something like a different OS altogether. Well: to me |
| 15:35.00 | Ede|Popede | windows with a linux kernel |
| 15:35.19 | Haohmaru | i thought gnome wanted to look like crApple OS |
| 15:35.56 | azeem | Haohmaru: do you have a Debian question/ |
| 15:35.59 | azeem | ? |
| 15:36.13 | Haohmaru | me? not at the moment |
| 15:36.22 | ratrace | it did, it does. BIG news lately in linux ecosystem media: gnome 4.0 will have the taskbar ....... brace yourselves........ at the bottom! |
| 15:36.27 | Brigo | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:36.30 | azeem | then please keep the chatter down |
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| 15:37.40 | Haohmaru | k, 3 sentances for 7 minutes is too much |
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| 15:38.17 | Brigo | Haohmaru, it is not about sentences, dpkg knows better: |
| 15:38.19 | Brigo | !chat |
| 15:38.19 | dpkg | This is not a chat channel, this is a Debian user support channel. Unless you have a Debian support question, please chat elsewhere, like #debian-offtopic (either freenode or oftc) or #moocows on irc.oftc.net, ##chat on irc.freenode.net, or search for a chat topic of your choice at https://netsplit.de/channels/ |
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| 15:41.01 | Ede|Popede | MrBuck: apt search $foo is nice, only it uses the whole entry afaik, so expect some false positives. so | grep $foo might be a help. also pretty good: debtags. only there are a lot of packages with poor tagging. but which doesn't surprise me at 60k packages. |
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| 15:41.49 | n4dir | well, you can also do: apt-cache search --names-only foo |
| 15:42.11 | MrBuck | Ede|Popede: ok I will use it thank you |
| 15:42.12 | n4dir | still grep might help, just saying |
| 15:42.46 | MrBuck | Brigo: ok |
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| 15:48.51 | otisolsen70 | I am creating a .deb package and have mentioned /etc/* and /usr/bin/* in my mypackage.install file. But the /usr/bin/* is installed in /bin/* instead of /usr/bin/*. What am I doing wrong? |
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| 15:49.44 | jelly | otisolsen70, which debian release are you targeting and which version of debhelper is installed? |
| 15:49.54 | otisolsen70 | jelly, building on buster for buster |
| 15:50.27 | jelly | huh |
| 15:50.41 | otisolsen70 | jelly, 10.7 |
| 15:50.57 | otisolsen70 | debhelper: 12.1.1 |
| 15:51.30 | avu | are you building on a system with merged usrmerge? |
| 15:51.40 | otisolsen70 | avu, no idea. |
| 15:51.54 | avu | otisolsen70: see if /bin is a symlink to /usr/bin |
| 15:52.24 | otisolsen70 | avu, it is. |
| 15:52.35 | avu | the build schroots used to build official packages still run without usrmerge because it causes such problems AFAIK |
| 15:52.59 | otisolsen70 | Hmm... So /usr/bin = /bin now? |
| 15:53.11 | avu | on system with usrmerge enabled, yes |
| 15:53.11 | greycat | on some systems, but not all |
| 15:53.20 | otisolsen70 | I was just confused when I did "which mybinary" and it said /bin/mybinary when I would expect /usr in front of that |
| 15:53.41 | otisolsen70 | I have no idea about usrmerge. I thought my system was pretty vanilla |
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| 15:53.47 | otisolsen70 | Is this usrmerge default? |
| 15:53.58 | avu | usrmerge is default for fresh installations of buster |
| 15:54.06 | greycat | if you installed on Debian 9 or older, and upgraded, and didn't install usrmerge, then you still have separate /bin even in current testing |
| 15:54.09 | avu | don't think it gets run on updates |
| 15:54.30 | otisolsen70 | So I can keep my install file as is? |
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| 15:55.40 | avu | probably |
| 15:56.19 | avu | again, official packages are build in schroots with usrmerge disabled AFAIK because it can cause problems, I don't understand which ones specifically though, maybe somebody else has more insight |
| 15:57.47 | otisolsen70 | Ok |
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| 15:58.04 | otisolsen70 | I am just building a custom package for some personal tools that I put on a lot of machines I work on. |
| 15:58.14 | otisolsen70 | This is the procedure I use to build packages: http://paste.yt/p14655.html |
| 15:58.23 | otisolsen70 | Is this correct? Or am I doing something wrong? |
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| 15:59.54 | otisolsen70 | Here I have contents of the debian/ folder included: http://paste.yt/p14656.html |
| 16:00.30 | avu | so you're one of the two people still using svn! |
| 16:00.51 | otisolsen70 | And contents of the install file included herE: http://paste.yt/p14657.html |
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| 16:01.21 | otisolsen70 | avu, yes I am. I have a working setup that is stable and I like it. I did move to git for some projects. But not this one. |
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| 16:27.26 | overyander | if a package is in sid but not buster, will it eventually be in buster or go straight to bullseye? |
| 16:27.41 | greycat | No new packages are ever going to be added to buster. |
| 16:28.19 | greycat | (exception: if it's some stupid lib needed for a new bumped version of bind9 or samba triggered by a security bug in bind9 or samba that can't be backported) |
| 16:28.39 | greycat | Or you could stop making us guess, and name the package. |
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| 16:29.42 | overyander | lol |
| 16:29.43 | overyander | https://packages.debian.org/sid/freeipa-server |
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| 16:30.36 | greycat | ,v freeipa-server |
| 16:30.37 | judd | Package: freeipa-server on amd64 -- sid: 4.8.10-2+b1 |
| 16:30.44 | greycat | oh, not even in testing |
| 16:31.08 | greycat | https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/freeipa |
| 16:31.26 | greycat | "This package will soon be part of the auto-openssl transition." |
| 16:34.09 | otisolsen70 | When I run dch to change changelog, the first line is mypackage (version) UNRELEASED; urgency=medium. Why does it say UNREALEASED every time? I always change it to stable. Is that correct? |
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| 16:35.41 | ratrace | for some reason I woke up to a degraded mdadm raid1 array, with zero clue where the effing eff has one device gone, and how. |
| 16:36.01 | otisolsen70 | ratrace, run smartctl -x /dev/sdX |
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| 16:37.42 | ratrace | no that's irrelevant. the device is okay, alive and well. just suddenly missing from the array, and no clues in the logs... |
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| 16:38.19 | ratrace | reassembles the array |
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| 16:45.53 | jelly | judd, file bin/nvme |
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| 16:45.59 | judd | Search for bin/nvme in buster/amd64: nvme-cli: usr/sbin/nvme |
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| 17:37.34 | enkrypt | since a few days I've got redrawing issues within Xorg on debian testing/sid, using nvidia binary drivers. like I move around a window and it creates glitches all over my screen, which disappear after a few seconds. sounds familiar to anyone? |
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| 17:52.39 | mi11k1 | does anybody use teamviewer? i just removed it. is it malicious? |
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| 17:53.21 | sponix | mi11k1: it has done okay for me |
| 17:53.42 | koollman | mi11k1: if you or the system administrator didn't install it, it may be malicious. Otherwise, I wouldn't say it is malicious, it is a remote control/help tool |
| 17:54.06 | mi11k1 | sponix, ive been using pihole and i saw weird activity |
| 17:56.10 | mi11k1 | i installed it . https://pastebin.com/izfxzbzn |
| 17:57.09 | mi11k1 | https://pastebin.com/i33U77dL, hers dig from 8.8.8.8 |
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| 17:58.59 | mi11k1 | i removed it and it with cli and it had a bunch of errors, and a bunch of notifications popped up on my desktop for a second. |
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| 18:04.37 | mi11k1 | yepp, teamviewerd is doing extra curricular activities. |
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| 18:15.53 | sig_9 | any word on 11 stable release? |
| 18:16.25 | nkuttler | when it's ready |
| 18:16.43 | sig_9 | heh, yea good answer |
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| 19:02.33 | bifunc2 | searching for "privacy" in https://www.debian.org/ and https://www.debian.org/intro/philosophy there are zero results. any thoughts on why? |
| 19:02.53 | bifunc2 | not a main focus of the distro? |
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| 19:03.45 | sney | debian is an integration project, a collection of tools. you can use those tools to make your system as private as anything. |
| 19:04.30 | sney | I'm sure if you read the debian documentation rather than grepping for a single keyword, you'll find something that describes a private/secure system, but it's not necessarily a focus beyond providing sane universal defaults |
| 19:04.42 | nkuttler | bifunc2: what would you expect debian to do wrt privacy? |
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| 19:06.16 | bifunc2 | nkuttler never phone home (like apple&ms (&ubuntu afaik)), not allow closed-source software by default, etc. (it makes sense that 1 would follow from 2, otherwise someone would have exposed it by now) |
| 19:06.29 | sney | !dfsg |
| 19:06.29 | dpkg | DFSG is the Debian Free Software Guidelines, which are explained at http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines . For a full list of DFSG-compatible/incompatible software licenses, see http://wiki.debian.org/DFSGLicenses |
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| 19:07.02 | greycat | The freedom part is there. The paranoia part, not so much. But there is some of it, removal of code from browsers and so forth. |
| 19:08.37 | bifunc2 | greycat, so installing closed-source packages first requires _manually_ adding those to sources.list? |
| 19:08.52 | greycat | Yes, unless you installed with an unofficial image. |
| 19:08.57 | sney | right, debian is not excessively paranoid about checking every package for phone-home code, preferring to trust upstream as much as possible. but any time something DRM-ish or non-free is discovered or will be potentially included in the archive, it's not taken lightly |
| 19:09.01 | nkuttler | bifunc2: unless you use the popularity contest tool there isn't much you "phone home", except maybe the packages you install that could appear in mirror logs |
| 19:09.40 | bifunc2 | ok great! |
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| 19:09.46 | bifunc2 | nice to know |
| 19:09.54 | nkuttler | bifunc2: generally speaking you should have network-level security though if this is important to you |
| 19:10.04 | bifunc2 | how mature is AppArmor on Debian 10.7? |
| 19:10.08 | nkuttler | on top of os level |
| 19:10.18 | bifunc2 | yeah |
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| 19:11.11 | bifunc2 | my primary motivation for AppArmor is that no software should be able to access anything in, e.g., ~/documents |
| 19:11.22 | bifunc2 | is this behavior there by default, or will it require further AppArmor customization? |
| 19:11.44 | sney | bifunc2: it was considered good enough to be included in stable, at least. profiles are in 'complain' mode by default to avoid people disabling it system-wide when they have a problem. so you will need to tweak slightly for enforce |
| 19:12.43 | sney | we have some documentation on the wiki: https://wiki.debian.org/AppArmor |
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| 19:13.46 | bifunc2 | get forbidden error there. probably your server doesn't like my vpn |
| 19:14.08 | sney | likely, wikis are a common spam target |
| 19:14.32 | bifunc2 | ok works via tor :) |
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| 19:15.13 | bifunc2 | overall it seems to me Debian is the distro with the most solid defaults for AppArmor, privacy, and reproducible builds |
| 19:15.23 | bifunc2 | i can't think of anything else that beats debian here |
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| 19:15.28 | bifunc2 | any thoughts? |
| 19:16.50 | sney | #debian is mostly debian users, so we're likely to agree regardless |
| 19:17.03 | bifunc2 | :D |
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| 19:21.56 | bifunc2 | are there any good recent laptops out there that can run on only free software? |
| 19:22.11 | bifunc2 | or are there always components nowadays that require non-free? (like wifi and graphics) |
| 19:22.13 | sney | that depends on whether you need wifi |
| 19:24.25 | sney | the only modern-ish free software only wifi controller that exists is the pci ath9k series, it maxes out at 802.11n but that may be fine depending on you use case. they are readily available on ebay if you have a laptop that will let you install an arbitrary nic |
| 19:25.40 | sney | the rest is pretty workable, post-2015 intel graphics needs firmware for full features but will generally work for browsing/typing without, etc |
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| 19:26.23 | bifunc2 | what are some risks of the non-free software for wifi/graphics? have such software been isolated in some way to reduce risks? |
| 19:27.49 | sney | since they are fully closed firmware blobs, we don't really know for sure. it *seems* to just be frequency-setting code in the case of wifi, and it's *unlikely* that a major contributor like Intel would put anything malicious in there, but... |
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| 19:29.05 | sney | I am not aware of any specific security research being done re: kernel firmware blobs, but I would be very surprised if it isn't being done somewhere |
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| 19:31.41 | zutat | bifunc2: would having all the source code for a wifi driver make wifi any safer? :) |
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| 19:33.39 | wsky | not really, no |
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| 19:40.59 | bifunc2 | well thanks all for the great discussion :) |
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| 19:41.54 | sney | np, thanks for the questions |
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| 20:22.53 | hansh | is https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/ loading for anyone else? |
| 20:23.34 | sney | looks fine here |
| 20:23.48 | alex11 | seems to be struggling to load, here |
| 20:23.58 | alex11 | no immediate 404 but it hasn't connected |
| 20:24.01 | zutat | doesn't work properly in germany |
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| 20:24.38 | hansh | for me, i can load https://cdimage.debian.org/ but if i try to load https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ or anything under it, no response :| |
| 20:24.49 | hansh | (norway here) |
| 20:25.03 | alex11 | same, https://www.debian.org/CD/ loads fine but https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/ doesn't |
| 20:25.43 | idlestranger | loads for me (endpoint in sweden) |
| 20:26.15 | sney | according to host, "cdimage.debian.org is an alias for ftp.acc.umu.se" so maybe there's something funky going on in western europe's routing |
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| 20:27.21 | sney | I bet these netsplits are the same root cause, since it's also affecting OFTC. /me mumbles about something rotten in the state of denmark |
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| 20:28.27 | zutat | :D it'd be lovely if the networking from sweden to norway goes through denmark |
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| 20:28.46 | sney | shakespearean, even. ;) |
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| 20:30.04 | sponix2ipfw | hansh: tried a VPN? |
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| 20:30.25 | hansh | sponix2ipfw, something similar, the page loads fine from Waterloo, Canada |
| 20:31.17 | hansh | (told a server in canada to load a linux image from that page with iPXE) |
| 20:31.19 | sponix2ipfw | hansh: probably just a broken route then |
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| 21:19.06 | otisolsen70 | I have now built a .deb package and I want to publish it on my debian package repository. What is the right way of doing that? I have built the package using these steps: http://paste.yt/p14657.html except for step number 9 which I am not sure of. But I guess it involves signing the package |
| 21:21.10 | sney | otisolsen70: #packaging on OFTC (note, right now you are on freenode) may have better answers for you. aiui all packages should be signed, and building for distribution should be done in a builder chroot to ensure no unnecessary gunk from your personal machine |
| 21:21.44 | sney | the nmg covers the steps in more detail, see https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/ |
| 21:21.58 | otisolsen70 | sney, how do I build in a builder chroot? What am I missing from the steps in the link? |
| 21:22.13 | otisolsen70 | sney, this is not something that will be published to the official debian mirrors. |
| 21:22.23 | otisolsen70 | sney, these are my personal projects |
| 21:22.29 | otisolsen70 | .. |
| 21:23.44 | sney | that's fine, but it's still best to follow best practices for package building regardless of who the package is for |
| 21:24.04 | sney | (and the packaging channel I referred to above is explicitly for packages *not* to be included in debian) |
| 21:24.25 | sney | pbuilder or cowbuilder are 2 tools that can build in a chroot, I've used pbuilder in the past, it's pretty straightforward. |
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| 21:25.21 | otisolsen70 | sney, ok |
| 21:26.32 | sney | and see the man page for debsign(1) for more information on signing the package |
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| 21:42.32 | dff | im having an issue where i have to source .profile each time for my environment variables to be read, shouldnt this be done on login? |
| 21:42.53 | dff | im using bah |
| 21:42.55 | dff | bash* |
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| 22:07.36 | ayekat | dff: depends how you log in, but if everything is set up correctly, yes |
| 22:08.17 | ayekat | dff: but check the INVOCATION section in bash(1) - bash check two other files first before falling back to ~/.profile |
| 22:08.51 | greycat | If you login with a Display Manager (gui) then there is no login shell, so nothing ever reads ~/.profile or the other two files. |
| 22:09.02 | ayekat | (or well, "correctly" - it's perfectly fine to have a setup where ~/.profile is not sourced by bash) |
| 22:09.17 | greycat | https://wiki.debian.org/Xsession |
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| 22:11.29 | jhutchins | dff: What login variable are you sourcing? There's probably a better way to achieve whatever you're trying to do. |
| 22:12.12 | greycat | Knowing the variable would be important because some of them get clobbered by some Desktop Environments. |
| 22:12.27 | digitalirony | Is there a way to disable cdrom and enable apt mirrors at the end of a preseed? Else when I boot my machine(im using automation with packer/ansible), it fails that the cdrom doesn't exist as soon as it tries to run apt-get update |
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| 22:12.40 | greycat | So, we need to know how you are logging in, what Desktop Environment you ultimately run (if any), and what you are trying to do. Specifically. |
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| 22:13.27 | Zareem | Hi ive burned debian image to my raspberry pi 4 8gb, its up and running but how can add a user for ssh? i do not have any micro hdmi cable so... |
| 22:13.40 | greycat | If it's something like "I want to set LANG and LC_TIME to different values, and I use GNOME" then the answer is "Sorry charlie. You can't." |
| 22:14.40 | greycat | Zareem: ssh in with whatever user you *do* have, become root, and run adduser to add another one |
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| 22:15.45 | ayekat | digitalirony: AFAICT there's `d-i mirror/...` settings - but not sure if those are adopted by the installed system as well... |
| 22:16.09 | Zareem | greycat cant find any documentation of any default user besides pi, which does not work to ssh in as... :/ is there any way of running a script after boot without any terminal access? |
| 22:17.14 | Zareem | ive tried to set root pass via sysconfig.txt and added my ssh pubkey but it still wont let me ssh as root |
| 22:17.14 | sney | Zareem: see answer #4 at https://raspi.debian.net/faq/ |
| 22:17.52 | Zareem | @sney i tried that |
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| 22:18.06 | jhutchins | Zareem: We're not saying to ssh AS root, we're saying to ssh as pi and become root. |
| 22:18.08 | sney | then you probably messed up some syntax, try it again |
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| 22:18.14 | deadrom | hi all |
| 22:19.26 | greycat | I'll say it: ssh as root if that works. |
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| 22:19.56 | deadrom | created an mdadm raid5, metadata 1.2, 4 devices with 1 partition, raid type, on an ubuntu 18.04 machine. transplanted the entire set into a deb8 machine. deb8 sees the disks, but not the partitions. what's too old, mdadm, kernel, all of debian, me..? |
| 22:20.46 | sney | probably kernel, though hammering mdadm --assemble with various options might improve the situation |
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| 22:22.16 | digitalirony | ayekat: perhaps you can point me to better documentation on the apt-setup part of the preseed docs? I have my own repos I can and would rather add, then having it install from cdrom. But the docs I see are examples, none of which really relate to my needs |
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| 22:23.33 | ayekat | digitalirony: to be honest, I have never really found anything really extensive in the Debian docs either :-( |
| 22:23.41 | ayekat | digitalirony: but this one I have found to be quite useful: https://people.debian.org/~plessy/DebianInstallerDebconfTemplates.html |
| 22:24.15 | ayekat | (note that it's been a few years (Debian 8) since I wrote preseed configs, so I can't tell if it's still applicable) |
| 22:25.32 | ayekat | hmmm - I can't see the option I wrote about in there, though - maybe not *that* extensive (or I just misunderstood it...) |
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| 22:26.12 | ayekat | digitalirony: btw, AFAIK the installer will put the CD option in sources.list if the packages were installed from the CD, and a network mirror otherwise (e.g. netinstall) |
| 22:26.31 | deadrom | sney: nope, I riveted the raid on the raw devices. must have been late. |
| 22:26.38 | ayekat | so perhaps you could just perform the installation via network already and see if that solves the issue...? |
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| 22:28.42 | sney | deadrom: welp, maybe jessie-backports's kernel will fix you up. remember, all of the work in md raid is done by the linux kernel. mdadm is just the administration tool. if you built the raid with ubuntu's 4.15 or 5.3, it's entirely possible that jessie's 4.9 is missing something |
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| 22:30.06 | sney | er, that's the bpo kernel. regular jessie has 3.16. |
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| 22:36.21 | deadrom | sney: nono, mystery solved, I tthought I created raid type partitions, seems in some kind of fever dream I used the raw device for --create |
| 22:36.28 | sponix2ipfw | sney: so is 5.10 branch going to be a Long Term one ? |
| 22:36.37 | deadrom | raid is up. and yes, that machine is queued for upgrade... |
| 22:36.53 | sney | aha |
| 22:36.55 | sney | sponix2ipfw: no idea |
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| 22:42.28 | sponix2ipfw | sney: the "internet" all say 5.10 is LTS 6 years -- Except this new article saying it might only get 2 years -> https://news.itsfoss.com/linux-kernel-5-10-support/ |
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| 22:44.16 | sney | sponix2ipfw: you can take quotes from gregkh at face value, I certainly don't know anything that he doesn't. though debian's kernel team will provide "long term" support for debian stable kernels regardless of what upstream considers their status to be |
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| 22:52.15 | sponix2ipfw | sney: Yeah good point |
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| 23:02.47 | ChillerDragon | my drive is full and i need more space but only in one directory so i plugged in another drive can i just mount that there and use it as this directory? |
| 23:02.54 | ChillerDragon | or is that a bad idea? |
| 23:03.27 | azeem | ChillerDragon: that's usually a bad idea unless you know what you're doing |
| 23:03.38 | ChillerDragon | meh |
| 23:03.39 | azeem | ChillerDragon: is it a system directory, or somewhere in your $HOME |
| 23:03.45 | ChillerDragon | something in home |
| 23:03.53 | ChillerDragon | a data directory that grows and grows |
| 23:04.17 | azeem | if you mount it there, the old content will vanish I believe |
| 23:04.34 | ChillerDragon | the old content of which drive? |
| 23:04.51 | greycat | normally you would want to stop whatever's using this content, rename the directory it's in, recreate that directory, mount the new device there, and then copy the content over |
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| 23:05.00 | ChillerDragon | yes |
| 23:05.05 | ChillerDragon | that sounds good |
| 23:05.12 | ChillerDragon | but is this some bad practice or soemthing |
| 23:05.24 | ChillerDragon | its not temporary i want to use this permanent |
| 23:05.29 | azeem | no what greycat said is good practise |
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| 23:05.58 | ChillerDragon | but can i start my system that keeps writing to it then? |
| 23:06.10 | ChillerDragon | no traps involved? |
| 23:06.21 | azeem | what's writing to it exactly? |
| 23:06.26 | ChillerDragon | a game server |
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| 23:07.10 | greycat | that sounds unlikely to cause any issues, then |
| 23:07.13 | azeem | I suggest to follow greycat's advise, which however involves shutting down the game server during the migration |
| 23:07.23 | ChillerDragon | yea thats fine |
| 23:07.36 | ChillerDragon | cool ima try |
| 23:07.39 | ChillerDragon | im a bit scared tbh |
| 23:08.02 | ChillerDragon | i never fully understood partitioning is this a usecase for that? |
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| 23:08.12 | greycat | the renamed directory will hold what's essentially a backup copy |
| 23:08.14 | ChillerDragon | to presist it across reboots? or cant i do that across dirves |
| 23:08.30 | greycat | add the mount to /etc/fstab to make it permanent |
| 23:08.35 | ChillerDragon | ah ok |
| 23:08.40 | ChillerDragon | and thats it? |
| 23:08.45 | ChillerDragon | and then its a partition |
| 23:09.05 | greycat | I assumed the partition had already been created, and the file system within it. |
| 23:09.29 | ChillerDragon | the data drive currently has debian installed |
| 23:09.34 | ChillerDragon | i thought i just mount it |
| 23:09.36 | ChillerDragon | and rm -rf |
| 23:09.42 | ChillerDragon | and then use it as data directory |
| 23:09.56 | ChillerDragon | or should i do some proper reformatting? |
| 23:10.01 | greycat | recreating the file system might be faster than rm -rf |
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| 23:10.48 | ChillerDragon | ok so a disk wipe? |
| 23:10.53 | ChillerDragon | fdsik* |
| 23:10.54 | ChillerDragon | ok |
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| 23:25.27 | ChillerDragon | ok yay the mounting worked now i think |
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| 23:27.30 | ChillerDragon | im scared to edit /etc/fstab greycat is there a tool like on archlinux that does it for me? |
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| 23:30.09 | themill | There's a couple of pretty good tools for that. vi is one, emacs is the other. |
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| 23:35.09 | greycat | One of the tricks I like is, instead of mounting the file system by running a mount /dev/... command, edit fstab *first*, then use "mount /your/mountpoint" to mount it. This verifies that the fstab line is working. |
| 23:35.43 | ChillerDragon | why? |
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| 23:36.02 | ChillerDragon | i dont get it |
| 23:36.02 | greycat | The last sentence I wrote explains why. |
| 23:36.20 | ChillerDragon | i use the mount command? |
| 23:36.28 | ChillerDragon | and the mount command then looks at fstab or what? |
| 23:37.18 | ChillerDragon | sounds like a nice idea im not too sure what to write in fstab tho i do not know the UUID and can also only guess the other values |
| 23:37.27 | greycat | Let's say your new device is UUID=12345 and your mount point is /home/john/gameserver. Instead of running "mount /dev/sdb3 /home/john/gameserver", you would edit fstab first, and then use "mount /home/john/gameserver" with no device, so it *has* to read fstab. |
| 23:37.40 | ChillerDragon | ah |
| 23:37.41 | greycat | And of course you use the UUID in the fstab line, not the temporary device name. |
| 23:37.44 | ChillerDragon | i see that makes sense |
| 23:38.01 | ChillerDragon | where do i get it from? |
| 23:38.13 | ChillerDragon | oh probably fdisk l or something |
| 23:38.19 | greycat | lsblk -f is one of many ways |
| 23:38.30 | ChillerDragon | nice |
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| 23:38.36 | ChillerDragon | and all the other values? |
| 23:40.59 | LEGITtimeTRAVELE | hexadecimal |
| 23:43.10 | ChillerDragon | i mean what do i use as <option> <dump> and <pass> ? |
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| 23:45.24 | ChillerDragon | ok i went with auto 0 0 |
| 23:46.37 | ChillerDragon | oh nice it worked thanks so much greycat :) |
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| 23:51.34 | sponix | Is there any advantage to a static swap partition vs a swap file ? |
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| 23:52.15 | greycat | At one point, at least, the partition was considered much more efficient. Don't know whether that's still the case. |
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| 23:52.36 | sponix | thanks |
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