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| 00:01.20 | kristijonas | hello, for virtual machines in buster, virt-manager instead of virtualbox, right? |
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| 00:14.00 | vanfanel64 | Here is what I have so far for my udev rule ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEM=="block", ENV{DEVTYPE}=="partition", ENV{ID_DRIVE_MEDIA_FLASH_SD}=="1", ENV{ID_NAME}=="SF256", ENV{ID_SERIAL}=="0x3db0a775", ENV{UDISKS_IGNORE}="1", |
| 00:14.23 | vanfanel64 | Not sure what is the correct thing to add |
| 00:15.25 | vanfanel64 | I know I need to create that rule in /lib/udev/rules.d/ and when I'm done, run 'udevadm control --reload-rules' |
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| 00:42.28 | jnagyjr | I'm having issues with detecting a network printer. It's a Kyocera FS-4100DN. I know for certain it's IP address (set by my router), and that it works (have it available for windows devices and some Android devices). None of the drivers I've tried through the default printer setup utility seem to be working, and I can't find much in the way of relevant tutorials on the WWW |
| 00:43.24 | sney | jnagyjr: try adding it from the cups interface at http://localhost:631, and use the generic postscript driver |
| 00:44.15 | sney | big boy business laser printers can usually accept raw postscript. it's not well advertised though. |
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| 00:44.30 | jnagyjr | Thanks (: I'll give that a go. |
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| 02:06.01 | jnagyjr | sney: for whatever reason, when I go to add a printer I can't use my login/pw for root or current user. It won't take. Tried three different browsers. Been reading on some other stuff that may help but.... |
| 02:06.18 | jnagyjr | (using localhost:631, ofc) |
| 02:09.51 | sney | jnagyjr: you would need to add your user to the 'lpadmin' group |
| 02:10.04 | sney | root used to work for that login but they may have phased that out |
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| 02:10.40 | jnagyjr | okay, I'll have to work on it later. Fam is watching Amazon Prime Video on the tv I'm hooked up to currently |
| 02:11.55 | jnagyjr | or not, I'm already part of lpadmin |
| 02:12.26 | sponix | jnagyjr: did you log out and back on -- OR Reboot for that to take effect ? |
| 02:13.01 | jnagyjr | Hrm, not recently, as I said, fam is watching Bones on Amazon. I'll do a relog again soon. |
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| 02:23.17 | jnagyjr | sponix I did, still same issue. |
| 02:24.52 | jnagyjr | I can ping the printer no problem. |
| 02:26.31 | jnagyjr | I have the relevant remote protocols enabled on the printer itself. |
| 02:27.41 | sney | well, if cups is being difficult, try from your DE printer applet instead, again with the generic postscript driver |
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| 02:42.01 | jnagyjr | alright, a reboot seemed to do the trick as far as accessing the cups interface, but same issue. |
| 02:42.10 | jnagyjr | will try a generic postscript driver |
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| 02:49.11 | jnagyjr | I'm giving up for tonight. I'm going to have to think on this some and rn I'm too frustrated. It's not 100% important to have the printers (I have another network printer to add, too) on this laptop, would just be nice. :-/ Thanks for the help, it's definitely got me going in the right direction. |
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| 03:49.56 | jnagyjr | well that was refreshing. my Canon (a wireless networked inkjet) installed hunky-dory, a-ok, et. al. |
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| 04:09.45 | stevecam | I'm thinking of building up a router on my Linux box, I have been using bullseye for Hypervisor and have been pretty happy with it, I'm still entertaining the idea of an LFS build also, would like to hear thoughts others might have |
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| 05:12.35 | node1 | How to enable gui in chroot? |
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| 05:22.18 | sponix | node1: you likely don't |
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| 05:22.43 | node1 | why i likes not? |
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| 05:32.14 | themill | schroot's desktop type is ideal for that |
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| 06:40.10 | cavsout19 | hi all |
| 06:40.52 | cavsout19 | I am trying to find out if there is a .file for xinitrc |
| 06:41.05 | cavsout19 | in my home dir |
| 06:41.14 | n4dir | ls .xinitrc |
| 06:41.24 | cavsout19 | ok |
| 06:41.40 | n4dir | if you expect it to be in a non-default path: find ~ -name 'xinitrc' |
| 06:42.20 | cavsout19 | file empty |
| 06:42.52 | n4dir | That ain't unusual. Usually, per default, it doesn't even exist. iirc |
| 06:43.09 | cavsout19 | oh so create |
| 06:43.16 | n4dir | and if you use a display manager, like gdm, i don't think it has any purpose |
| 06:43.49 | n4dir | all as far i know. pretty confusing. |
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| 06:43.54 | cavsout19 | idont use gnome xfce4 |
| 06:44.30 | cavsout19 | I found the file in /etc |
| 06:44.45 | cavsout19 | but not in ~/. |
| 06:45.46 | cavsout19 | well thanks for the info |
| 06:46.16 | n4dir | i think every Desktop Environment uses a display-manager, as long you install it during "installation" -> taskfer. |
| 06:46.27 | cavsout19 | yea |
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| 06:46.42 | n4dir | simple though: if you boot to TTY, you don' use one, if you get that login-screen, |
| 06:46.56 | n4dir | damn: if TTY, you don't use one, if login-screen, you use one |
| 06:47.09 | cavsout19 | im confused a little cause I havent used linux in a few yrs |
| 06:47.57 | n4dir | yup. There is a lot of "if" and "then" regarding the login process. It is confusing. Thats for sure |
| 06:48.08 | cavsout19 | yea |
| 06:48.25 | cavsout19 | and relearning linux too |
| 06:48.37 | n4dir | though, iirc, debian also uses a default DE or WM, even without a ~/.xinitrc, if you run startx |
| 06:48.57 | cavsout19 | interesting |
| 06:49.15 | n4dir | xfce is: exec xfce4-session |
| 06:49.24 | cavsout19 | what is iirc |
| 06:49.25 | n4dir | in ~/.xinitrc |
| 06:49.33 | n4dir | if i recall correct. Sorry. |
| 06:51.56 | n4dir | cavsout19: if you want to know all the details, they are described here: http://mywiki.wooledge.org/DotFiles?highlight=%28xinitrc%29 |
| 06:58.59 | cavsout19 | thank |
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| 06:59.58 | n4dir | cavsout19: most here know at least the way to start X they do it rather well. So just ask. (as you said you try to get your head back into linux). Right now the channel is rather silent, but usually you get decent answers. |
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| 07:01.42 | cavsout19 | oh yea i remember debian channel from back in 20012 |
| 07:02.02 | cavsout19 | when I stopped using computers |
| 07:03.02 | n4dir | didn't use computers for quite some years too. I can't say it was a bad life. I sure waste a lot of time "doing nothing" with the PC |
| 07:03.42 | n4dir | anyway, before someone complaints bout offtopic: good luck, have fun, and if in doubt just ask here. :-) |
| 07:03.50 | cavsout19 | yea me too but its better than drinking |
| 07:03.59 | n4dir | :-) sure |
| 07:04.19 | cavsout19 | thanks |
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| 07:33.59 | dokma | I've been having issues with keyboard input being wrongly consumed. 2 typed characters get ignored and then a third one is a UTF8 character but only when I start my wm with 'startx' only. When I start my wm with 'startx /path/to/wm' everything is ok. |
| 07:34.29 | dokma | Should this point to an issue with .xinitrc ? |
| 07:35.16 | dokma | I've reduced my .xinitrc to call to setxkbmap and xmodmap |
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| 07:36.39 | dokma | Do any other conf files get parsed on a call to startx alone? |
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| 08:16.46 | rdz | hey all. when an update from security repo is released, how can i find out why that package got an update, or what kind of security fixes were applied? |
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| 08:41.54 | jolt | rdz: the DSAs? https://www.debian.org/security/2021/dsa-4839 |
| 08:42.02 | jolt | With sudo as an example |
| 08:42.23 | jolt | I recommend you to subscribe to the security announce mailing list: https://lists.debian.org/debian-security-announce/ |
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| 08:44.22 | alex11 | or use an update indicator thing |
| 08:44.42 | alex11 | uses package-update-indicator on xfce4 |
| 08:44.56 | alex11 | but yes ideally both |
| 08:45.52 | jolt | Yeah, depends on if it's server or desktop use I guess |
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| 08:46.41 | alex11 | mhm |
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| 08:50.20 | ratrace | rdz: apt-get changelog <package> will list changes; also, yes, subscribe to security announcements |
| 08:50.52 | ratrace | you can also install apticron to get emailed when there's pending upgrades |
| 08:52.05 | rdz | jolt, ratrace thanks! |
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| 09:21.07 | Gandalf1783 | Morgen zusammen |
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| 09:25.34 | ratrace | wie gehts |
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| 09:48.15 | alex11 | how do you make a tar using transferring only new or updated files to an existing tar? tar uf foo.tar /home or something? |
| 09:48.46 | alex11 | that xkcd comic is still relevant... |
| 09:50.31 | ratrace | alex11: -N ? |
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| 09:53.21 | alex11 | -Nf i guess |
| 09:53.37 | alex11 | i never know with tar when to use - or just the letters by themselves |
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| 10:01.34 | ratrace | alex11: always use - . everything else is perversion of the command line options standard, and the authors should be banned from using computers for life. |
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| 10:03.51 | rudi_s | ratrace: What? |
| 10:04.41 | rudi_s | Why should I use tar -xf when tar xf works? |
| 10:04.47 | ratrace | rudi_s: command line options style that allow usage of options without - |
| 10:04.55 | rudi_s | So? |
| 10:05.05 | ratrace | rudi_s: because it creates ambiguous situations of what's an option and what's an argument |
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| 10:05.27 | ratrace | (positional argument) |
| 10:05.44 | rudi_s | Well, works for me. Maybe not a good idea to design new programs using that, but I see no reason not to use them in programs which already exist. |
| 10:05.55 | ratrace | well you do whatever you want, I stand by my opionion that perversions like these should be banned |
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| 10:07.30 | ratrace | similarly .. single or two dashes for multi-letter options. -option is it -o -p -t -i -o -n or is it --option ? this is not tar, but a lot of tools do that crap |
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| 10:07.42 | ws2k3 | im trying to rsync everything from a remote ssh to a local folder. so i run rsync -aP username@server:/ /mypath but i get this error exec request failed on channel 0 |
| 10:07.42 | ws2k3 | rsync: connection unexpectedly closed (0 bytes received so far) [Receiver] what could this be exacly? |
| 10:07.54 | ratrace | this is exactly why the Unix Haters handbook exists. |
| 10:08.16 | ratrace | ws2k3: does the other side have rsync installed? |
| 10:11.13 | RadoS | !udev |
| 10:11.13 | dpkg | udev is a /dev and hotplug management daemon, the Linux kernel's userspace equivalent of <DevFS>. Ask me about <udev mac>, <blacklist.conf>. See also <udev rules>, <udev squeeze>, <udev details>, <dpin>, <devtmpfs>. http://wiki.debian.org/udev #udev on irc.freenode.net. |
| 10:13.48 | alex11 | one annoying thing with tar is the man page tells you info has more... well, info - not that i need it - but info tar seems to be the same as man tar |
| 10:13.50 | ws2k3 | ratrace: no is that a requirement? |
| 10:14.42 | ratrace | ws2k3: yes |
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| 10:16.14 | ratrace | ws2k3: ssh is just a shell. all the rsync options that are affecting filtering or munging on the remote side must be handled by something, and shell ain't it. thus rsync starts rsync on the remote end with appropriate options, to generate the stream |
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| 10:21.19 | ws2k3 | ratrace: according to the documentation i should do it as following: rsync --progress -e 'ssh -p23' --recursive username@server:/* /localpath but i keep getting rsync: [sender] link_stat "/*" failed: No such file or directory (2) anything i might be doing wrong? |
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| 10:22.06 | ratrace | ws2k3: that * should not be three |
| 10:22.07 | ratrace | *there |
| 10:22.27 | ratrace | username@server:/ suffices ... and NOTE that the trailing slash on the SOURCE side matters |
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| 10:22.50 | ratrace | username@server:/path/to :/path/to/ :path/to and :path/to/ are four different contexts |
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| 10:24.54 | ws2k3 | ratrace: thx for ur help. rsync --progress -e 'ssh -p23' --recursive username@server: /localpath this was the right syntax |
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| 10:25.18 | ratrace | without heading slash, you're relative to SSH user's $HOME. the trailing slash makes a difference between copying THAT directory or stuff UNDER that directory (with trailing slash) |
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| 10:26.10 | ratrace | ws2k3: consider using ~/.config instead of giving port numbers to the command line |
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| 10:29.01 | miguel_clean | I am looking for a browser based ui to manage my virtual machines, any suggesitons? |
| 10:29.25 | ws2k3 | miguel_clean: which hypervisor? |
| 10:29.39 | ratrace | Ganeti and Proxmox seem popular these days |
| 10:29.39 | ws2k3 | miguel_clean: im a huge fan of xcp-ng |
| 10:29.45 | miguel_clean | (currenly i use virsh from the command line, but all are kvm based) |
| 10:29.46 | ksk | miguel_clean: I can recommend the third party tool "Proxmox" (not part of Debian). |
| 10:30.07 | ksk | not just an interface, though. |
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| 10:30.19 | ratrace | Ganeti is packaged, if you wanna stay "pure" |
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| 10:31.06 | miguel_clean | ok thanks, will have a quick look on all of these |
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| 12:05.33 | jelly | ,kernels |
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| 12:05.34 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.10.0-trunk-686 (5.10.2-1~exp1); sid: 5.10.0-3-686-pae (5.10.12-1); bullseye: 5.10.0-2-686-pae (5.10.9-1); buster-backports: 5.9.0-0.bpo.5-686-pae (5.9.15-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-14-686-pae (4.19.171-2); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.13-686 (4.19.160-2~deb9u1); jessie- |
| 12:05.35 | judd | backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1) |
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| 12:09.30 | Iamahuman | y0, got a question. I have a Stretch (9.13) running a few websites. I've paid the server for the next 7 months, but I would like to move the services to a nicer provider. Iirc I tried upgrading the server to Debian10, but there was something with the VPS provider that I could not do that. Debian11 stable is coming soon. How should I do the move? Install clean Debian11 at the new provider and then migrate the services over there? |
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| 12:11.53 | hop | sure |
| 12:12.01 | hop | or not |
| 12:12.36 | ratrace | There is usually no other way to migrate between providers, than reinstall, reconfigure and copy data over. |
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| 12:13.14 | ratrace | And make sure you do NOT choose OpenVZ provider again.... OpenVZ is atrocious, not really virtualization but more like a glorified container, with all the limitations of unprivileged containers. |
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| 12:13.51 | ratrace | While at it, perhaps use the time before bullseye to prepare, in a VM, your configuration using automation like Ansible. That way you can migrate anywhere on a whim by re-applying the playbook elsewhere. |
| 12:13.59 | Iamahuman | I did the "reinstall deps, install clean, import old DB and application data dirs"-route when I moved from a 25⬠box to a 5⬠box. It looks like I'm going to prefer 2x more expensive provider. Looking at the costs of things it ain't an issue if a server costs 5⬠or 10⬠/ month |
| 12:14.33 | ratrace | "You pay what you get for" .... no, wait..... "You get what you pay for". yeah. cheap crap is .... crap. |
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| 12:16.35 | Iamahuman | I'm not saying the 5⬠/ month for 4 cores, 8GB and 200GB SSD is bad value, I just want the more advanced systems of the more expensive provider |
| 12:17.30 | ratrace | it's extremely bad value. it'd take the provider many years for RoI. that's why the oversell and overcram their hardware to the brim.... and beyond..... to shorten that ROI |
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| 12:18.33 | avu | I was about to say you definitely get a decent VPS in that price range but, yeah, not with those specs (or even close) |
| 12:19.36 | ratrace | "decent" depends on the role and expectations |
| 12:19.40 | Iamahuman | the more expensive company gives me ~ 140MB/s transfer speeds to the backups servers, the cheap company has some cheapo internet connections giving me ~ 2MB/s, sigh.. |
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| 12:20.11 | Iamahuman | ratrace: good point about using something that's got KVM and not OpenVZ |
| 12:20.56 | ratrace | Linode bottom price was iirc $20 for 512MB (yes, 512MB!) and they repeatedly said they couldn't go lower without bankrupting. And then DigitalOcean happened, and Linode was forced to go with cheaper plans.... they ALSO changed their policy radically and started to constrain more and more of CPU, and quickly went to toilet with their "quality" |
| 12:21.28 | avu | just go to Hetzner and be happy, even at that price range |
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| 12:21.55 | ratrace | so, sure, can you get a 5â¬/mo VPS? yeah. how "decent" will it be? exactly what the price of a cup of coffee at a prominent city square caffe would bring you, for a month. |
| 12:22.39 | ratrace | (and I probably underpriced that coffee. Dead center Venice caffees had a cuppa for 20â¬+ before covid) |
| 12:23.44 | Iamahuman | yeah, better to pay 2 coffees for a server |
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| 12:25.56 | Iamahuman | I was born in the 70's so this is still sinking in.. 5⬠servers.. I used to pay 50⬠/ month equivalent for a 300kbps dedicated line in the 90's so.. |
| 12:26.41 | ratrace | we had a lot of fun then, yeah |
| 12:27.19 | Iamahuman | ava: I have couple of servers with Hetzner. I'm thinking of moving the one server over there. They have such top system and just loving the 0.01⬠/ GB / month + VAT snapshot pricing <3 <3 |
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| 12:29.11 | ratrace | Hetzner clouds are neat. Just beware of their dedicated offers' OOB access.... it's terrible |
| 12:29.16 | Iamahuman | I don't really devel, but I can see their pricing is so that everything devels need is dirt cheap. 7 days round robin backups up the server price by 20%, but again the value it brings to the webmaster to have daily backups by the house |
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| 12:31.14 | ratrace | that's actually not as valuable as one may think. onsite backups are worthless and they don't have offsiting capability. DIY is the best you can do there. |
| 12:31.55 | ratrace | I trusted the provider's backup system once. Linode's. Then they had a bug where all the backups were corrupt and you couldn't use them, and that wasn't noticeable until you actually needed the backups.... |
| 12:32.21 | hop | do your own backups. always. |
| 12:32.34 | ratrace | Proper backups are offsite and regularly tested. Ideally in 3-2-1 scheme (3+ copies, in 2+ mediums, 1 of which at least is offsite) |
| 12:33.07 | hop | with something that does differential backups you don't even have problems with egress costs. borg, for example, does it even on block level |
| 12:33.29 | ratrace | I run btrfs and zfs, and then I rsync between their snapshots. |
| 12:33.35 | hop | for a typical website you can keep borg backups for ages without using up additional space |
| 12:33.50 | hop | i have db backups going back over a decade at a space reduction of 100:1 |
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| 12:34.34 | ratrace | what you actuall yhave there is ONE data block on disc referenced to 100 times :) |
| 12:34.43 | hop | 'xactly |
| 12:34.51 | ratrace | so if that 1 data copy were to, dunno.... perish.... poof goes the 99 weasels. |
| 12:34.55 | hop | times 3 on two continents |
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| 12:35.06 | ratrace | now that's something :) |
| 12:35.06 | hop | i think, i'm safe |
| 12:35.16 | ratrace | multiple _physical_ copies FTW |
| 12:35.37 | Iamahuman | i suspect Hetzner may be doing the backups incrementally, though they are priced per total volume.. But if a snapshot of a server costs me like 0.20⬠/ month to maintain, I'd say it is good value |
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| 12:35.55 | hop | you still want one off site |
| 12:36.01 | ratrace | yea |
| 12:36.09 | hop | improbable as it is, hetzner could go tits-up |
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| 12:36.16 | ratrace | it's not really improbable |
| 12:36.29 | Iamahuman | I do backups of the services every now and then and stash them in a few places and also offline |
| 12:36.53 | jolt | Nothing is improbable with hetzner unfortunately :/ |
| 12:36.54 | ratrace | I'm their customer since 2012. They use(d) consumer grade hardware in their infrastructure. A number of times those went tits up and all the data on it |
| 12:36.55 | Iamahuman | I could use with a 100% automated solution to backup. I've only semiautomated it |
| 12:37.52 | ratrace | I'll never forget that one weekend when Friday evening my AIDE scripts started screaming that all the files have different checksums each time they're read. It wasn't until _monday_ that Hetzner responded ack'ing faulty motherboard on the host. |
| 12:38.21 | ratrace | That was the last time I used consumer anything in relation to servers. |
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| 12:39.17 | ratrace | And look, you can get quality server grade Xeons, older yes, but still dedicated, unshared, ECC stuff.... for 20-30⬠/ mo |
| 12:39.31 | Iamahuman | prlly like rsync or rclone or similar ... did I hear something of incremental database backupping? All I know is just dumping the databases and then loading them to a MariaDB to see that they load, crude, but reliable in a way |
| 12:39.53 | ratrace | you can do replication based backups |
| 12:40.14 | Iamahuman | ratrace: remote database syncronization? |
| 12:40.18 | ratrace | they're real-time backups and as incremental as possible |
| 12:40.20 | ratrace | Iamahuman: yes. |
| 12:40.39 | Iamahuman | oh cool, any particularly good free software solutions for doing that? |
| 12:40.51 | ratrace | that's what I do. streaming WAL for Postgres. Then on the backup server (ZFS), the DB is snapshot'ed every hour for historical reasons (Actualy timeline backups) |
| 12:41.15 | ratrace | Iamahuman: they're built into databases, at least Postgres and MySQL (so I'm assuming MariaDB) have it |
| 12:41.22 | Iamahuman | My sites are very low traffic so I've never needed to look for advanced acceleration solutions |
| 12:41.40 | hop | Iamahuman: for mysql? percona-toolkit. nothing really turn-key, though |
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| 12:42.06 | ratrace | doesn't mysql have built-in replication functionality? |
| 12:42.21 | hop | it does, but you want some scaffolding around it |
| 12:42.38 | hop | a mariadb slave is no use when you don't notice it being out of sync |
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| 12:42.55 | ratrace | Yeah, I don't know MySQL. I don't do toy DBs. I only use grown up tools, Postgres. Postgres streaming replication is built into it, no need for external tools. |
| 12:43.30 | hop | the replication is built into mysql/mariadb as well, but as i said, that's only half the story |
| 12:43.32 | Iamahuman | Y'all prlly knew that My and Maria are daughters of the original founder of MySQL AB |
| 12:43.33 | ratrace | want logical (individual tables and columns) or full WAL stream, postgres has you covered. |
| 12:43.44 | hop | we have quite some code around that for postgres as well |
| 12:44.19 | ratrace | hop: the only code I got is a trigger to failover the DNS if one part goes titsup :) |
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| 12:44.24 | hop | it's too easy to introduce a stupid filter to the binlogs and *poof*, there goes your order history |
| 12:44.50 | ratrace | hop: is that for logical repl? |
| 12:45.02 | hop | not sure i understand the term |
| 12:45.28 | ratrace | there's no filtering for postgres streaming repl, at least afaik. logical replication maybe be based on conditions/filters |
| 12:45.57 | ratrace | UNLESS you're using one of the third party tools needed for before Postgres grew the built-in streaming replication capabilities? |
| 12:46.10 | ratrace | eg. query based replication and .... ugh... |
| 12:46.48 | ratrace | whatwasitsname...... pgpool |
| 12:47.09 | hop | yeah, wellâ¦Â i do prefer postgres, but no amount of persuasion will make wordpress use it and those customers pay good money |
| 12:47.32 | ratrace | eh.... WP.... the money's not worth it. we're slowly kicking out all our WP clients this year. |
| 12:47.46 | hop | we take 'em gladly ;) |
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| 12:49.41 | ratrace | we decided it's too much after it became impossible ot properly secure the instances. we used containers and apparmoring but to do it _properly_, WP may NOT be able to modify itself. |
| 12:50.09 | ratrace | a few clients knew how to use wp-cli, a few didn't care and had us manage it, but majority wanted the ability to 1-click install and upgrade shiz..... and we said Nope. Out you go. Shoo. Scram! |
| 12:50.59 | ratrace | after two got compromized and one of them ... thankfully for the AppArmor, its second-stage attempt to subvert the kernel and grab the whole machine, failed. |
| 12:51.23 | ratrace | that was close call and was basically gameover. out y'all, go get compromised somehwere else. |
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| 13:23.56 | hop | ratrace: our wp instances cannot modify themselves. all plugins and themes, etc. are managed by us |
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| 13:27.09 | hop | the long term strategy is preaching and conversion to django, though ;) |
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| 13:34.02 | ecsim | Hello, I've installed claimav-daemon on my vps, with 1 cpu and 2 ram gb. Very often I see that the daemon get killed by the oom killer. Does this mean that I don't have enough ram? |
| 13:35.16 | greycat | More swap would also help, albeit at a performance cost. |
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| 13:36.06 | ecsim | I've 1 gb of swap, but it's not being used from claim at all. I assume that there is a reason why claim doesn't use swap |
| 13:36.18 | greycat | It's clam. Not claim. |
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| 13:36.49 | greycat | And processes don't generally say "never use swap for me" unless they are self-righteous like gnupg. |
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| 13:40.46 | jelly | ecsim, clamav RAM usage will vary based on amount and size of enabled virus databases |
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| 13:45.24 | synaps3 | do you people know of any good tutorial that helps with making custom debian derivative ? |
| 13:45.31 | synaps3 | not linux from scratch |
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| 13:46.06 | n4dir | there are lots of how-to's about live-build or however the packages i now called on forums.debian.net |
| 13:46.28 | n4dir | one result of all those how-to's is refractasnapshot, which does it in an automated way |
| 13:46.51 | n4dir | for personal usage that should suffice. For serious stuff: no idea |
| 13:47.29 | ecsim | jelly I see that It uses something like 1.2 - 1.3 Gb. There must be something that triggers It and It uses more memory than I have, maybe there is something wrong with the swap. I'm gonna double check it |
| 13:47.46 | synaps3 | n4dir, for personal usage is my goal |
| 13:48.15 | n4dir | refractasnapshot, though now a devuan thing, is as straight forward as it could get. |
| 13:48.35 | n4dir | install debian, configure it to your liking, run refractasnapshot, enjoy the resulting live and installable iso |
| 13:48.55 | n4dir | its a bash script, so if you care for the details, you can read how it does it. |
| 13:49.26 | jelly | ecsim, install atop and let it collect stats. Replay the logs after the next time oomkiller is activated |
| 13:49.28 | n4dir | but those old forums.debian.net posts are quite exhaustive too. The user "MeanDean", changed his name all the time. Which makes finding the posts a bit cumbersome |
| 13:49.31 | n4dir | but worth it |
| 13:50.20 | jelly | ecsim, it collects snapshots of memory usage in 10 minute intervals, so you might be lucky enough to see what (else) allocates RAM just before oom is triggered |
| 13:50.49 | jelly | ecsim, it might not be clamd, even if clamd is the usual victim |
| 13:51.35 | ecsim | ok thanks, very intresting, I didn't know atop. I'm gonna install it |
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| 13:53.47 | r3m1 | hello |
| 13:54.54 | r3m1 | I had an SD card where a debian is running for an embedded computer with 3 partitions. I wanted to backup the card quickly so what I did is take the card to my destkop computer and dd if=/dev/mmcblk0 of=backup.img |
| 13:55.52 | r3m1 | now I want to clone to another SD card. however when I do dd if=backup.img of=/dev/mmcblk0 it seems the new card is not showing the 3 partitions it is not mounted properly |
| 13:56.19 | r3m1 | what did I do wrong, any help apreciated |
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| 14:00.29 | r3m1 | looking at that link: https://tecadmin.net/drive-and-partition-backup-examples-with-dd-command/ |
| 14:01.02 | r3m1 | seems that I totally forgot to copy the MBR |
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| 14:01.33 | r3m1 | is the MBR still in my .img when I first dd if=/dev/mmcblk0 of=backup.img ? |
| 14:01.45 | ecsim | It's possible that you backup is corrupted. If you dd the entire device and not the partition, the mbr should be included |
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| 14:02.54 | r3m1 | ecsim: how can I tell if it is corrupted ? |
| 14:02.57 | qman__ | yes, the MBR is the first 512 bytes and would have been copied as you did it the first time |
| 14:04.05 | r3m1 | when I fdisk -l backup.img I see the partitions and a message "partition table entries are not in the order of the disk" |
| 14:04.26 | r3m1 | (this is a translation of the message in french, probably not accurate) |
| 14:04.57 | hop | r3m1: you can try to mount those partitions with kpartx |
| 14:05.24 | hop | r3m1: this way you could tell whether the image is corrupt or just the write went wrong |
| 14:05.35 | ecsim | I don't think now you can be check the integrity of your backup, since you didn't create an hash |
| 14:06.44 | ecsim | if you are talking of an ext* partition you can use e2fsck -f /dev/"partition" in order to check if It's ok. the partition order shouldn't be a problem |
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| 14:34.28 | nkuttler | ugh.. wget on stable doesn't recognize some letsencrypt certs? |
| 14:34.39 | nkuttler | or doesn't have the trust chain.. |
| 14:35.11 | nkuttler | yeah, openssl can't verify |
| 14:35.36 | nkuttler | or maybe it's misconfigured.. |
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| 14:36.08 | qman__ | make sure ca-certificates is installed and up to date |
| 14:36.53 | ksk | ,v ca-certificates |
| 14:36.55 | judd | Package: ca-certificates on amd64 -- jessie: 20141019+deb8u3; jessie-security: 20141019+deb8u4; buster: 20190110; stretch: 20200601~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 20200601~deb9u1; stretch-updates: 20200601~deb9u1; buster-proposed-updates: 20200601~deb10u2; buster-updates: 20200601~deb10u2; bullseye: 20210119; sid: 20210119 |
| 14:36.57 | qman__ | letsencrypt's trust chain changed recently, as it expired |
| 14:37.49 | ksk | can cofirm, cannot connect to my recently issued LE cert webservers using buster wget |
| 14:38.04 | nkuttler | oh? mine still work, v5 |
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| 14:39.26 | ksk | ah nevermind me, was doing it all wrong. |
| 14:40.02 | ksk | nkuttler: can you give an example URL? |
| 14:40.12 | nkuttler | can i pm? |
| 14:40.13 | qman__ | https://letsencrypt.org/2020/11/06/own-two-feet.html for details on the change |
| 14:40.18 | ksk | sure. |
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| 15:03.06 | forester | Hullo. I have read on Distrowatch this: For example, every package was compiled without SELinux or AppArmor. Also the kernel is configured for better security, without compromise. The question is what about debian's packages? What they do use: SELinux or AppArmor? And the second question is about security: if the distro above does not use SElinux and AppArmor, then how it could be "better security"? |
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| 15:05.19 | ksk | !apparmor |
| 15:05.19 | dpkg | AppArmor (Application Armor, formerly SubDomain) provides pathname-based mandatory access control, a file-system neutral alternative to <SELinux>. Previously maintained by Novell and part of the Linux kernel since version 2.6.36. http://wiki.debian.org/AppArmor http://apparmor.wiki.kernel.org/ #apparmor on irc.oftc.net. |
| 15:06.18 | ksk | I am inclined to say that compared to many other distributions Debian has a rather clean package archive, and known vulnerabilities get handled by the security-team in a timely manner. |
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| 15:06.37 | greycat | Debian ships several AppArmor profiles by default in the latest release. |
| 15:08.32 | ksk | forester: What is your real question here? Looking for the "most secure" distribution? That would likely somewhat come down to your definition of security :) |
| 15:08.43 | JyZyXEL | i remember someone trying to gain traction for enabling AppArmor on Debian by default, but did that end up happening? |
| 15:09.09 | greycat | Debian ships several AppArmor profiles by default in the latest release. |
| 15:09.39 | greycat | Usually we find this out because someone complains that their program didn't work after they moved their data to a new location and symlinked it from their $HOME dir. |
| 15:10.01 | JyZyXEL | they haven't been enabled by default at least always |
| 15:10.23 | JyZyXEL | that could've changed in recent years though |
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| 15:12.10 | JyZyXEL | yup: Since Debian 10 (Buster), AppArmor is enabled by default. |
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| 15:15.03 | JyZyXEL | forester: the packages i've come across that need build time apparmor or selinux levers, have been built so for debian repos |
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| 15:18.14 | forester | Thank you for answers. |
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| 15:19.45 | forester | I compile custom linux-libre kernels. Then I should know what setting in kernel config to use (security configs). |
| 15:20.59 | forester | I can remember, there are SELinux, AppArmor, Tomoyo, and maybe Yama (do not remember exactly names). |
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| 15:23.30 | JyZyXEL | i let android do the SELinux and muck around with AppArmor myself |
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| 15:31.19 | forester | Thank you. Bye. |
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| 16:14.46 | irreleph4nt | Hi. I just realised that samba in buster still depends on python 2, which is giving me issues with another tool I want to install. How can I install a newer version of samba and bar my PC from ever installing anything python2 again? |
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| 16:18.02 | jelly | irreleph4nt, upgrade to bullseye? |
| 16:18.37 | jelly | (it's testing right now. May be released as Debian 11 this year) |
| 16:18.51 | greycat | the python2-rm transition is not completed yet, either |
| 16:19.03 | greycat | so you'll still have python2 if you upgrade now |
| 16:19.36 | irreleph4nt | That's a bit painful. Thanks for the input guys :) |
| 16:20.46 | jelly | ,depends samba --release bullseye |
| 16:20.47 | judd | Package samba in bullseye/amd64 -- depends: adduser, libpam-modules, libpam-runtime (>= 1.0.1-11), lsb-base (>= 4.1+Debian), procps, python3 (<< 3.10), python3-dnspython, python3-samba, samba-common (= 2:4.13.3+dfsg-1), samba-common-bin (= 2:4.13.3+dfsg-1), tdb-tools, python3 (>= 3.9~), python3:any, libbsd0 (>= 0.6.0), libc6 (>= 2.14), libgnutls30 (>= 3.7.0), libldb2 (>= 2:2.2.0~), libpopt0 (>= 1.14), |
| 16:20.48 | judd | libpython3.9 (>= 3.9.0~b4), libtalloc2 (>= 2.3.1~), libtasn1-6 (>= 4.14), libtdb1 (>= 1.4.3~), libtevent0 (>= 0.10.2~), libwbclient0 (= 2:4.13.3+dfsg-1), samba-libs (= 2:4.13.3+dfsg-1),dpkg (>= 1.15.6~), init-system-helpers (>= 1.54~). |
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| 16:21.17 | jelly | at least there will be no python2 assault from samba |
| 16:21.53 | jelly | ,v samba |
| 16:21.54 | judd | Package: samba on amd64 -- jessie: 2:4.2.14+dfsg-0+deb8u9; jessie-security: 2:4.2.14+dfsg-0+deb8u13; stretch: 2:4.5.16+dfsg-1+deb9u2; stretch-security: 2:4.5.16+dfsg-1+deb9u2; buster: 2:4.9.5+dfsg-5; buster-security: 2:4.9.5+dfsg-5+deb10u1; bullseye: 2:4.13.3+dfsg-1; sid: 2:4.13.3+dfsg-1 |
| 16:24.18 | irreleph4nt | is an in-place upgrade to bullseye as easy as switching over a couple lines in the source list? |
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| 16:24.36 | irreleph4nt | I have no physical access to the machine so if it fails booting afterwards I am screwed |
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| 16:28.23 | jelly | don't do it then |
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| 17:18.09 | Gramcor | hello |
| 17:18.15 | YWH_1 | help |
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| 17:18.55 | Gramcor | can someone explain to me why in sources.list there two kinds of updates? there is buster/updates from debian-security, and also buster-updates from the normal repo (the same it take for buster) |
| 17:19.06 | Gramcor | how do these two sources of updates differ? |
| 17:20.22 | ratrace | purely semantics; one is security fixes only the other is various other stable updates and bugfixes |
| 17:20.28 | oerheks | long answer https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/4255/why-is-there-a-separate-package-repository-for-debian-security-updates |
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| 17:25.58 | greycat | buster-updates contains packages that are scheduled to be released in the next "point release" (10.6, 10.7, etc.) |
| 17:26.58 | Gramcor | ratrace, don't stable updates also become part of the buster repo? (the one we usually get packages from) |
| 17:27.52 | ratrace | "Now you've got a server that is guaranteed to have the latest security patches without accidentally introducing bugs caused by incompatible versions, etc." ... except when the said security fix borks your system with a regression that seems to happen a few times a year. So no, there's no such garantee. Caveat emptor and test the updates if you need guarantees, take them from the person in the |
| 17:27.53 | azeem | during point releases, yes |
| 17:27.54 | Gramcor | oh i see greycat |
| 17:27.58 | greycat | anything that's in buster-updates right now will be included in the 10.8 point release |
| 17:27.58 | ratrace | mirror. |
| 17:28.16 | ratrace | security updates are also part of the next point release tho |
| 17:28.19 | azeem | buster-updates is like CentOS Streams *duck* |
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| 17:28.40 | Gramcor | also can i get a package from testing without ruining my system? |
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| 17:28.53 | Gramcor | i usually get from buster-backports, but this one (codeblocks) doesnt exist |
| 17:28.53 | badsektr | new linux update today |
| 17:29.00 | greycat | Gramcor: use backports |
| 17:29.11 | greycat | ,v codeblocks |
| 17:29.12 | judd | Package: codeblocks on amd64 -- stretch: 16.01+dfsg-2+b1; buster: 16.01+dfsg-2.1; bullseye: 20.03-3; sid: 20.03-3 |
| 17:29.16 | greycat | ,checkbackport codeblocks |
| 17:29.17 | judd | Backporting package codeblocks in sidâbuster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 12). |
| 17:29.22 | ratrace | Gramcor: depends. the rule of thumb is not to mix repos like that, unless you know what you're doing in which case you wouldn't have to ask ;) |
| 17:29.25 | Gramcor | will testing always pull new incompatible libraries? |
| 17:29.37 | greycat | Gramcor: OK, in this case, either figure out how to fix the build dependency, or build upstream |
| 17:29.49 | sponix2ipfw | greycat: "flatpak" is an option for that one also |
| 17:29.57 | badsektr | does one need to reboot after kernel update? |
| 17:30.02 | greycat | yes |
| 17:30.04 | Gramcor | i got it from upstream, they offer debs |
| 17:30.07 | sponix2ipfw | badsektr: for it to take effect - yes |
| 17:30.20 | greycat | Gramcor: make sure those debs are built for your version of Debian, or an older version, not a newer one |
| 17:30.22 | ratrace | badsektr: unless you set up some kind of live patching (paid) service, you have to reboot |
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| 17:36.46 | greycat | anyone know a workaround for "sudo: unable to send audit message: No buffer space available" on a Debian 9 OpenVZ client system? free says there is memory available. |
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| 17:59.28 | echelon | hi, can you put the boot partition inside a logical volume? |
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| 18:00.13 | Mister00X | echelon: /boot or /boot/efi ? |
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| 18:00.14 | echelon | /boot |
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| 18:01.34 | Mister00X | echelon: assuming you have a UEFI system the answer is yes if /boot/efi is still on a FAT32 partition. Also you can just include /boot in the / volume |
| 18:02.41 | Mister00X | echelon: note that the efi partition needs to be outside the logical volumes as far as I know |
| 18:03.19 | echelon | i'm not concerned with efi as i'm using mbr |
| 18:04.52 | Mister00X | echelon: In that case I dont think its possible because of GRUB |
| 18:05.09 | echelon | ok, thanks |
| 18:05.17 | Mister00X | echelon: wait sorry |
| 18:05.32 | Mister00X | echelon: grub2 supports lvm |
| 18:05.50 | echelon | does debian 10 come with grub2? |
| 18:06.25 | greycat | ,v grub |
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| 18:06.27 | judd | No package named 'grub' was found in amd64. |
| 18:06.30 | greycat | ,v grub-pc |
| 18:06.31 | judd | Package: grub-pc on amd64 -- jessie: 2.02~beta2-22+deb8u1; jessie-security: 2.02~beta2-22+deb8u1; stretch: 2.02~beta3-5+deb9u2; buster: 2.02+dfsg1-20+deb10u2; buster-security: 2.02+dfsg1-20+deb10u2; buster-proposed-updates: 2.02+dfsg1-20+deb10u3; bullseye: 2.04-12; sid: 2.04-12 |
| 18:06.40 | Mister00X | yes of course |
| 18:06.50 | greycat | ,v grub-efi |
| 18:06.51 | judd | Package: grub-efi on amd64 -- jessie: 2.02~beta2-22+deb8u1; jessie-security: 2.02~beta2-22+deb8u1; stretch: 2.02~beta3-5+deb9u2; buster: 2.02+dfsg1-20+deb10u2; buster-security: 2.02+dfsg1-20+deb10u2; buster-proposed-updates: 2.02+dfsg1-20+deb10u3; bullseye: 2.04-12; sid: 2.04-12 |
| 18:06.51 | Mister00X | i mixed something up |
| 18:07.06 | greycat | it'll use either grub-efi or grub-pc and those are the versions of it |
| 18:08.48 | greycat | So, answering my own question from earlier: rebooting helps temporarily, and su works in some places where sudo fails with the buffer error. After su, I was able to stop processes and restart them and so on, and the shitstorm that was blocking sudo from working seems to have subsided. |
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| 19:00.06 | JordiGH | My buddy is streaming the Great Debian Init Case Of 2014: https://www.twitch.tv/hay__ |
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| 19:10.01 | greycat | Twitch, reminding me how much I hate twitch. I got no less than *4* emails from them and *2* interruptions in the stream while trying to login. |
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| 19:10.38 | ratrace | they need to make The Twitcher. a horror series. |
| 19:10.48 | greycat | "you must reset your password" ... "you must also type this verification code even though we LITERALLY JUST verified your email by resetting your password" |
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| 19:13.19 | JordiGH | greycat: Yeah, I wish we had a better streaming platform. |
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| 20:20.38 | alexrelis[m] | JordiGH: Soon, Odysee and Peertube will have livestreaming. |
| 20:20.53 | JordiGH | I think peertube already has it. |
| 20:21.07 | JordiGH | Hard enough to get an audience on Twitch, though. I wonder what getting an audience on something more niche will be like. |
| 20:24.54 | alexrelis[m] | sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/wmhtBXokoYLuBDQJJkDBNcnY/message.txt > |
| 20:25.47 | alexrelis[m] | Most of the people who have their vids synced with YouTube/Odysee end up with a majority of their viewers on YouTube because well, they may just watch it on YT if that's where they have most of their content. |
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| 20:28.45 | oxek | I'd like to use https://github.com/timvisee/ffsend in debian. The options are downloading the binary from github, installing snapd and getting it from snapcraft, installing brew and getting it from there. I can't compile it myself because it requires a newer version of rust than what is available in debian-stable. |
| 20:28.53 | oxek | which option would you recommend? |
| 20:29.05 | oxek | I think ffsend is already in RFP, but nobody picked it up |
| 20:29.56 | sney | to stay on buster, snap is probably your smoothest option |
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| 20:31.52 | alexrelis[m] | I'd personally go with the binary, but the snap would be smooth if you already had snapd. |
| 20:32.10 | alexrelis[m] | By the way, that looks like a really cool program. |
| 20:33.18 | sney | ,bug wnpp ffsend |
| 20:33.20 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/960538 in wnpp (open): «RFP: ffsend -- A fully featured Firefox Send command line client»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2020-05-13; last modified: 2020-05-13. |
| 20:33.47 | sney | it does look neat. |
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| 20:40.25 | alexrelis[m] | Sometimes, I want an easy way to share large files over the internet without relying on a third party server. I like OnionShare, but I know few people willing to use Tor to download files. |
| 20:41.56 | alexrelis[m] | Oh... but wait a second. Doesn't this rely on send.firefox.com? Isn't that service discontinued? |
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| 20:47.15 | oxek | alexrelis[m]: the dev uses their own server |
| 20:47.23 | oxek | https://send.vis.ee/ |
| 20:47.39 | oxek | and the ffsend tool allows you to specify any other host server, if you decide to run your own |
| 20:48.11 | oxek | alexrelis[m]: I often use magic-wormhole for directly sending files without having to upload them anywhere, and magic-wormhole is packaged in debian |
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| 20:48.43 | oxek | uploading files to a server is useful though because both parties don't have to be online at the same time |
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| 20:49.26 | oxek | I don't have snapd installed yet, I feel uneasy about it (it seems to do lots of things on its own, like autoupdating the apps), which does not feel like "the debian way" |
| 20:50.00 | oxek | I might just get the binary then. I already tested it in a virtual machine and it did not crash & burn it |
| 20:51.36 | alexrelis[m] | Is this a python program? They should have a way for it to be installed via pip. |
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| 20:52.36 | alexrelis[m] | Nvm. I don't think it is. |
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| 21:43.12 | oemb1905z | heyo |
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| 21:48.30 | oxek | alexrelis[m]: Rust, not python |
| 21:48.50 | oxek | and rust is still kinda problematic on debian |
| 21:48.53 | oxek | just like go |
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| 23:14.58 | sponix | oxek: Rust has issues on Debian ? How so ? |
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| 23:15.12 | sponix | I was just debating starting to write something in Rust |
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| 23:15.41 | sney | just the usual newness struggle afaik |
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| 23:17.30 | brigand | hi. is ahci problematic? |
| 23:18.19 | oxek | sponix: rust things often require newer stuff than is available in debian-stable, and are hard to backport |
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| 23:18.52 | sney | brigand: not usually |
| 23:19.34 | brigand | sney: ok, thanks |
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| 23:25.19 | jhutchins | It's my impression that rust is one of the languages where there isn't a lot of cross version compatibility. |
| 23:25.42 | jhutchins | So a package release this month won't run on an installation from last year. |
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| 23:27.44 | sney | I don't think that's true, as it produces ELF executables. it's just a whole stack of build environment that has specific dependencies |
| 23:27.56 | sney | also currently keeping firefox 85 out of sid |
| 23:28.56 | sney | anyone learning rust from the beginning will probably be able to noodle around with the versions in buster, too. they just can't compile big new rust projects from upstream that require a new compiler, new cargo, etc |
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| 23:33.37 | jhutchins | Yeah, but that puts the admins, who want to run stable, proven code up against the devs, who want a whole bunch of under-tested new, unstable packages on a production server. |
| 23:34.26 | sney | hopefully it will plateau at some point |
| 23:34.30 | jhutchins | It's one of the things about containers. Great for development. Anything that goes wrong within the container is the developer's responsibility. |
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| 23:35.36 | jhutchins | sney: Some of the languages have smoothed out pretty well. Then there's PHP, where the coders (Wordpress) want 7.x and the stable commercial distros are still instaling 5.x |
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| 23:36.00 | jhutchins | That's after a long run of stability on 5.3. |
| 23:36.01 | sney | yep, or the whole node ball of madness |
| 23:37.20 | jhutchins | Yep. I've known developers who were sensible about stability, and I've had to work with some who went to a meetup this weekend and want to throw out all of the old systems. |
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| 23:38.46 | jhutchins | I worked for a company where the admins were in KC, and were pretty solid guys, but the developers were in New York City and had a shiney new strategy every week or so. |
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| 23:40.11 | jhutchins | The devs thought if they moved to "dev-ops" in the cloud and put them in charge, they could fire all of us uptight admins and save money on salaries. |
| 23:41.06 | jhutchins | Some companies are still on the ascending curve of that learning lesson, some have made it work, and others have said "hell no". |
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| 23:42.11 | sney | I worked with a developer who would get horny for a new framework every month. luckily I was in the position to tell him no, haha |
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