| 00:01.42 | *** join/#debian _bleb (cm@faeroes.sdf.org) |
| 00:04.05 | *** join/#debian freebench (~freebench@92.253.250.136) |
| 00:05.35 | *** join/#debian muffindrake (~muffindra@unaffiliated/muffindrake) |
| 00:08.09 | *** join/#debian _bleb (cm@faeroes.sdf.org) |
| 00:13.46 | *** join/#debian Dj_Dexter (~Dark_X@gentoo/user/dj-dexter) |
| 00:16.52 | *** join/#debian matias (~matias@188-67-132-129.bb.dnainternet.fi) |
| 00:18.31 | *** join/#debian knamehost (~knamehost@unaffiliated/knamehost) |
| 00:23.18 | *** join/#debian h0_ (~h0@2a02-842a-8083-2101-021f-16ff-fe13-c020.rev.sfr.net) |
| 00:24.29 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f1ab200821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 00:24.46 | *** join/#debian dazo (~freenode@openvpn/corp/developer/dazo) |
| 00:28.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1162] by debhelper |
| 00:28.52 | *** join/#debian h0 (~h0@126.1.10.93.rev.sfr.net) |
| 00:29.06 | *** join/#debian queip (~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus) |
| 00:32.03 | *** join/#debian ChrisH (~dg7pc@clio.dg7pc.de) |
| 00:39.05 | *** join/#debian c10l (~c10l@2a01:4b00:9d42:9650::1e0) |
| 00:39.37 | *** join/#debian JohnML (~john1@ip-37-201-129-30.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 00:40.04 | *** join/#debian burrows_ (burrows@burrows.cloud) |
| 00:43.19 | oxek | I ended up downloading the binary release of ffsend from https://github.com/timvisee/ffsend/releases, the version that does not have -static in the name, and placed it in /usr/local/bin/ffsend, which should be the correct dir that is not managed by apt |
| 00:43.42 | oxek | everything seems to work. I know I have to manually keep track of updates to the app. |
| 00:44.23 | oxek | I wonder however, what happens if ffsend is accepted into debian repos? Would apt alert me in any way that there's an upgrade available? Or will apt completely ignore ffsend because it simply does not know about its existence on my system? |
| 00:48.22 | abrotman | oxek: apt doesn't know about it, it would continue to use the one that comes first in your path (unless specified) |
| 00:51.11 | *** join/#debian rjsalts (~rjsalts@green.spectralmud.org) |
| 00:51.23 | oxek | thanks. and naturally /usr/local/bin takes precedence over /usr/bin in default debian $PATH |
| 00:55.42 | *** join/#debian awal1 (~awal1@bras-base-mtrlpq0315w-grc-17-70-55-154-172.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 00:55.42 | *** join/#debian cdown (~cdown@89.32.122.5) |
| 00:57.51 | *** join/#debian civillian (~nick@124-148-119-56.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 00:58.12 | *** join/#debian well_laid_lawn (~Jean-luc@115.64.117.212) |
| 01:00.00 | *** join/#debian tzf (~tyzef@43.231.30.223) |
| 01:01.41 | *** join/#debian Scotty_Trees (~Scotty_Tr@162-234-179-169.lightspeed.brhmal.sbcglobal.net) |
| 01:02.35 | *** join/#debian cdown (~cdown@89.32.122.5) |
| 01:03.46 | *** join/#debian cdown (~cdown@89.32.122.5) |
| 01:05.26 | *** join/#debian dreamon (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) |
| 01:06.58 | *** join/#debian sinaowolabi (~Sina@102.134.114.1) |
| 01:07.27 | *** join/#debian bru (~bru@181.31.90.169) |
| 01:07.46 | *** join/#debian dvs (~hibbard@cwv.teksavvy.com) |
| 01:09.33 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f1ab200821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 01:12.20 | *** join/#debian diniwed (~gavron@45.67.99.50) |
| 01:17.50 | *** join/#debian Dadrophenia (~Dadrophen@97-113-176-217.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 01:18.59 | *** join/#debian ddsys (~ddsys@unaffiliated/ddsys) |
| 01:19.54 | *** join/#debian AliasAlreadyTake (~AliasAlre@2001:16b8:3f5b:6300:f618:f8d1:6c4e:cfdd) |
| 01:20.16 | *** join/#debian Q_Continuum (~quassel@97-116-155-232.mpls.qwest.net) |
| 01:23.13 | *** join/#debian _Matth_ (~Matth@ab116055.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) |
| 01:24.19 | *** join/#debian Apeiron` (~Apeiron@97.112.243.97) |
| 01:27.41 | *** join/#debian cskr (~cskr@49.207.222.103) |
| 01:28.52 | *** join/#debian _bleb (cm@faeroes.sdf.org) |
| 01:32.03 | *** join/#debian arkoldthos (uid268544@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-enivhangoxvbmnfl) |
| 01:34.32 | *** join/#debian paradizelost (~paradizel@184-83-75-180-dynamic.midco.net) |
| 01:34.40 | *** join/#debian budlight (~richard@host-67-204-195-100.public.eastlink.ca) |
| 01:35.08 | *** join/#debian hwm4rgs (~hwm4rgs@unaffiliated/hwm4rgs) |
| 01:35.21 | *** join/#debian banym (~banym@unaffiliated/banym) |
| 01:35.54 | *** join/#debian B-E-N (~B-E-N@unaffiliated/b-e-n) |
| 01:36.09 | *** join/#debian xedniv (~xedniv@unaffiliated/moldenauer) |
| 01:36.11 | *** join/#debian fourstepper (~fourstepp@static.49.156.119.168.clients.your-server.de) |
| 01:36.41 | *** join/#debian riff-IRC (~riff2@unaffiliated/riff2) |
| 01:36.49 | *** join/#debian Quick_Wango (~quickwang@static-ip-62-113-199-104-inaddr.cubyte.org) |
| 01:38.28 | *** join/#debian Obi-Wan (~obi-wan@unaffiliated/obi-wan) |
| 01:46.52 | *** join/#debian freebench (~freebench@92.253.250.136) |
| 01:47.28 | *** join/#debian sssb54 (~ssssb56@vps-b2931db6.vps.ovh.ca) |
| 01:49.39 | *** join/#debian ax562 (~ax562@unaffiliated/ax562) |
| 01:52.44 | *** join/#debian psiance (~psiance@50-50-139-47.snpr.wi.frontiernet.net) |
| 01:53.27 | *** join/#debian psiance (~psiance@186.206-40-109.netnet.net) |
| 01:55.56 | *** join/#debian StathisA (~StathisA@unaffiliated/stathisa) |
| 01:57.01 | *** join/#debian catman370 (~catman@unaffiliated/catman370) |
| 01:59.25 | KNERD | JordiGH: alexrelis[m]: JoshWhoTV has live streaming |
| 02:01.19 | *** join/#debian citypw (~citypw@gateway/tor-sasl/citypw) |
| 02:09.22 | *** join/#debian ChrisH (~dg7pc@clio.dg7pc.de) |
| 02:09.25 | *** join/#debian shinobi__ (~shinobi@c-24-147-48-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 02:10.12 | *** join/#debian UnDeRsOuL (~bataloopp@unaffiliated/lucas-/x-9790181) |
| 02:11.30 | *** join/#debian geowiesnot (~user@87-89-181-157.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 02:16.11 | *** join/#debian cskr (~cskr@49.207.222.103) |
| 02:19.16 | *** join/#debian TBotNik (~quassel@147.160.222.31) |
| 02:20.18 | TBotNik | All: Have a Q about the 2914 version. Anyone know that version well? |
| 02:20.40 | *** join/#debian cdown (~cdown@89.32.122.5) |
| 02:22.02 | *** join/#debian fb_ (~freebench@92.253.250.136) |
| 02:25.11 | *** join/#debian SpeedyG (~SpeedyG@unaffiliated/speedyg) |
| 02:27.10 | TBotNik | All: I was on Kubuntu 14.04 LTS, which had "super windows" allowing the nesting on any window within another window. I asked KDE, they said "Not us", so I asked Ubuntu/Canonical , again the answer, "Not us" and they pointed me to Debian. Q: Did this feature originate with the 2014 Debian release. Anyone know this answer? |
| 02:28.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1168] by debhelper |
| 02:28.57 | *** join/#debian polardroid (~polardroi@45.56.154.126) |
| 02:29.33 | *** join/#debian shiki (~sevu@dynamic-089-014-170-220.89.14.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 02:31.27 | *** join/#debian dreamon (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) |
| 02:31.56 | *** join/#debian Amun_Ra (~amun-ra@retro.rocks) |
| 02:35.25 | sig_9 | is it safe enough now to edit sources to bullseye and dist-upgrade? and if I did that It'd be the stable branch? |
| 02:38.41 | *** join/#debian Nefertari (~Nefertiti@unaffiliated/nefertiti) |
| 02:41.23 | *** join/#debian fmaurer (~quassel@188.126.166.3) |
| 02:42.55 | *** join/#debian hendursaga (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga) |
| 02:46.39 | *** join/#debian BrianG61UK_ (~BrianG61U@81.92.200.86) |
| 02:47.00 | *** join/#debian gnufr33dom (~gnufr33do@ip68-108-88-236.lv.lv.cox.net) |
| 02:48.37 | oxek | !tell sig_9 about debian-next |
| 02:49.05 | *** join/#debian BrianG61UK__ (~BrianG61U@2a02:8010:66b7:dddd:e899:7fde:1b47:5b49) |
| 02:50.27 | oxek | It will only be considered "safe enough" once bullseye is officially released (likely sometime this year). |
| 02:50.42 | oxek | and even then many of us will wait until the first few point releases before upgrading |
| 02:51.06 | *** join/#debian de-facto_ (~de-facto@unaffiliated/de-facto) |
| 02:51.23 | oxek | and the upgrade process will be described in the release notes. It might be as simple as changing the sources.list lines, but there might be additional steps to take. We won't know until the release notes are released. |
| 02:53.23 | *** join/#debian forgotmynick (uid24625@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ldqnqjbyonimibta) |
| 02:53.59 | *** join/#debian bertbob (~bertbob@67-2-11-203.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 02:55.23 | *** join/#debian codivera (~cody@197.48.127.240) |
| 02:58.35 | *** join/#debian dvs (~hibbard@cwv.teksavvy.com) |
| 02:59.33 | *** join/#debian tsal (~tsal@i59F5220C.versanet.de) |
| 03:00.10 | *** join/#debian diniwed (~gavron@92.118.13.161) |
| 03:03.52 | *** join/#debian secntech (~secntech@unaffiliated/secntech) |
| 03:06.55 | *** join/#debian rue_bed2 (~rue@d50-92-153-236.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 03:07.11 | rue_bed2 | anyone know why nfs is returning 0x00 for file contents? |
| 03:07.35 | rue_bed2 | aka if I hexdump a file from an nfs mount, I get *the correct* number of bytes, but they are all 0x00 |
| 03:08.08 | *** join/#debian ss2``` (~user@unaffiliated/ss2) |
| 03:14.24 | *** join/#debian SoundShaman (~SoundSham@47-219-249-23.jkvlcmta01.res.dyn.suddenlink.net) |
| 03:16.05 | *** join/#debian AliasNumber10 (~crix@cpe-76-167-192-248.san.res.rr.com) |
| 03:17.25 | *** join/#debian BrianG61UK_ (~BrianG61U@2a02:8010:66b7:dddd:8d29:1d25:c765:cca9) |
| 03:20.14 | *** join/#debian lead_pipe23 (~Lead@38.146.84.50) |
| 03:24.12 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f1ab200821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 03:25.21 | *** join/#debian m0wgly (~m0wgly@bras-base-toroon1016w-grc-39-76-64-216-6.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 03:26.04 | m0wgly | #flood |
| 03:26.53 | *** join/#debian jelly-home (jelly@pdpc/supporter/active/jelly) |
| 03:28.00 | *** join/#debian rue_ (~dfgdfg@d50-92-153-236.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 03:29.17 | *** join/#debian eldereko_ (eldereko@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/eldereko) |
| 03:34.52 | rue_mohr | anyone seen an nfs problem where all the data of the file comes back as zeros? |
| 03:41.01 | *** join/#debian BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@2a02:8010:66b7:dddd:a0b6:febf:4234:2c75) |
| 03:51.25 | *** part/#debian m0wgly (~m0wgly@bras-base-toroon1016w-grc-39-76-64-216-6.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 03:51.48 | ASDX | to upgrade only 'sudo' to the patched 1.9.5-3 package on Debian 10, after running "sudo apt-get update", the upgradeable version is still an old 1.8.xx version). what's the best way to update that to 1.9.5-3? just download the DEB package and install that with "sudo apt-get --only-upgrade install /tmp/sudo_1.9.5-3_deb10_amd64.deb"? |
| 03:53.24 | *** join/#debian Antioch04 (~Antioch@h175-177-044-119.catv02.itscom.jp) |
| 03:57.49 | *** join/#debian muffindrake (~muffindra@unaffiliated/muffindrake) |
| 03:58.53 | ASDX | (no config mgmt in place) |
| 03:59.28 | *** part/#debian polardroid (~polardroi@45.56.154.126) |
| 04:04.44 | *** join/#debian Aavar_ (~aavar@cm-84.212.254.169.getinternet.no) |
| 04:06.24 | sponix | sney: you good with wireguard by chance ? |
| 04:06.34 | *** join/#debian zxwayland (~zx@89.45.90.203) |
| 04:07.12 | sponix | ASDX: you could just dpkg -i sudo*.deb |
| 04:07.50 | sponix | ASDX: but seriously if you have updates and security both active, the 'apt update && apt upgrade" should do the correct sudo update for you anyway |
| 04:10.38 | *** join/#debian cliluw (~cliluw@unaffiliated/cliluw) |
| 04:10.58 | *** join/#debian riff-IRC (~riff2@unaffiliated/riff2) |
| 04:11.03 | JackFrost | sponix: Might be best to just ask? |
| 04:12.50 | sponix | needing some help with wireguard. I had it working at one point, and have even attempted to mirror that configuration with no success |
| 04:13.17 | sponix | following the same documentation as prior also |
| 04:13.56 | *** join/#debian iv4nhoe (~ivanhoe@unaffiliated/takiito) |
| 04:15.04 | rue_mohr | how do I work out what window manager is active? |
| 04:15.52 | JackFrost | sponix: Don't use the save config option, basically. |
| 04:15.55 | sponix | rue_mohr: you can probably grep a process list like ps ax|grep xfwm |
| 04:16.18 | sponix | JackFrost: umm, I need to take that out of my configuration ? |
| 04:16.26 | rue_mohr | no *wm |
| 04:16.50 | JackFrost | Basically, if you change something via the commandline tools, it writes to the config option. This is a rather strange setting, and IMO best to leave off. |
| 04:17.03 | JackFrost | (A lot of places recommend you turn it on, it really just confuses things.) |
| 04:17.06 | rue_mohr | x-window-manager |
| 04:17.40 | rue_mohr | oh, I think its e16 |
| 04:18.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1159] by debhelper |
| 04:18.09 | rue_mohr | only 3 or 4 links deep :) |
| 04:20.01 | JackFrost | sponix: But, to properly help, someone will likely need more info. If you don't get it here, could try #wireguard. |
| 04:21.51 | rue_mohr | does anyone know where the corrupt config file is that makes the empty background on gnome-panel not redraw? |
| 04:24.16 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f1ab200821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 04:25.51 | *** join/#debian zmarvel (~zack@c-71-205-184-23.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 04:27.41 | *** join/#debian nyov (~nyov@unaffiliated/nyov) |
| 04:30.24 | *** join/#debian allorder (allorder@gateway/vpn/airvpn/allorder) |
| 04:36.35 | *** join/#debian bliminse_ivan12 (~Ivan@gateway/tor-sasl/bliminseivan12/x-70753866) |
| 04:37.24 | *** join/#debian CrypticSquared (~CrypticS_@unaffiliated/crypticsquared) |
| 04:39.02 | bliminse_ivan12 | hello |
| 04:42.51 | *** join/#debian s8548a (~s8548a@unaffiliated/s8548a) |
| 04:51.06 | *** join/#debian bru (~bru@181.31.90.169) |
| 04:51.50 | *** join/#debian n4dir (~n4dir@mue-88-130-57-165.dsl.tropolys.de) |
| 04:52.56 | *** join/#debian godane (~godane4@154.16.166.13) |
| 04:57.46 | *** join/#debian bliminse_ivan12 (~Ivan@gateway/tor-sasl/bliminseivan12/x-70753866) |
| 05:03.32 | *** join/#debian coruja (~coruja@unaffiliated/coruja) |
| 05:03.51 | *** join/#debian fling_ (~fling@fsf/member/fling) |
| 05:04.02 | bliminse_ivan12 | hello |
| 05:04.09 | bliminse_ivan12 | anyone |
| 05:04.11 | *** join/#debian kfvn (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/kh4ydn) |
| 05:05.38 | *** join/#debian bliminse_ivan12 (~Ivan@gateway/tor-sasl/bliminseivan12/x-70753866) |
| 05:05.52 | *** join/#debian OPK (~OPK@unaffiliated/opk) |
| 05:10.26 | *** join/#debian rgr (~rgr@p200300e4173f383509c33151e84fdf09.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 05:14.13 | *** join/#debian wallacer (~quassel@2001:bc8:1824:9a:cafe:babe:b00b:aa01) |
| 05:15.53 | *** join/#debian uxfi (~uxfi@unaffiliated/uxfi) |
| 05:17.44 | *** join/#debian n4cht (~n4cht@pool-96-244-120-132.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) |
| 05:18.50 | ASDX | sponix: thanks, but "apt update && apt list --upgradeable | sudo" doesn't show the patched version? |
| 05:23.24 | *** join/#debian muffindrake (~muffindra@unaffiliated/muffindrake) |
| 05:26.41 | *** join/#debian dviola (~diego@unaffiliated/dviola) |
| 05:26.44 | dviola | hi |
| 05:26.59 | dviola | is it possible to set the default compiler to gcc-9/g++-9 instead of 10 in debian testing? |
| 05:28.12 | *** join/#debian fredl (~fredl@smtp.3dn.nl) |
| 05:31.59 | n4dir | often for such "update-alternatives" is useful. How exactly i always have to google myself |
| 05:38.22 | *** join/#debian koniu (~koniu@gateway/tor-sasl/koniu) |
| 05:46.07 | *** join/#debian w-oertl (~wolfgang@cm56-194-159.liwest.at) |
| 05:51.52 | *** join/#debian Devshalom (~Devshalom@8ta-246-27-140.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 05:52.59 | *** join/#debian crn (~c.r.norwo@2600:1700:4000:c3a0::c) |
| 05:53.00 | *** join/#debian onejukeboksi (~noname@wikipedia/jukeboksi) |
| 05:55.49 | *** part/#debian Devshalom (~Devshalom@8ta-246-27-140.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 05:59.38 | *** join/#debian ax562 (~ax562@unaffiliated/ax562) |
| 06:02.03 | *** join/#debian fjavier (~fjavier@170.253.44.250) |
| 06:02.11 | *** join/#debian Lupricon (~Lupricon@bzq-80-25-116.static.bezeqint.net) |
| 06:06.27 | *** join/#debian diogenes_ (~diogenes_@188.208.123.179) |
| 06:09.44 | *** join/#debian Ericounet (~Eric@2a01:e0a:d0:3c20:6d87:5355:e475:e321) |
| 06:12.23 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f1bf000821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:15.15 | *** join/#debian n4dir (~n4dir@mue-88-130-57-165.dsl.tropolys.de) |
| 06:16.47 | *** join/#debian sauvin (sauvin@about/linux/staff/sauvin) |
| 06:18.44 | *** join/#debian idlestranger (~idlestran@185.195.233.171) |
| 06:25.11 | *** join/#debian darutoko (~darutoko@37.21.191.88) |
| 06:26.41 | *** join/#debian enseneo (~madneap@c-73-4-34-87.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 06:26.48 | *** join/#debian godane (~godane4@154.16.166.81) |
| 06:27.26 | *** join/#debian rgr (~rgr@p200300e4173f383509c33151e84fdf09.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:30.07 | *** join/#debian sirial[m] (sirialmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-rgftvxidkrrzuexo) |
| 06:40.24 | *** join/#debian muffindrake (~muffindra@unaffiliated/muffindrake) |
| 06:41.41 | *** join/#debian __marco (~marco@195.218.6.205) |
| 06:44.00 | *** join/#debian akp55 (~akp55@c-73-148-15-31.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 06:44.17 | *** join/#debian Tempesta (Tempesta@unaffiliated/tempesta) |
| 06:44.46 | *** join/#debian wsky (uid453465@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qhgrjqbxkfmilkxf) |
| 06:45.24 | *** join/#debian kn0rki (~Kn0rki@dslb-094-221-215-255.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 07:00.23 | *** join/#debian Main_ (~secntech@unaffiliated/secntech) |
| 07:03.56 | *** join/#debian mezzo (~mezzo@176-141-171-88.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 07:07.52 | *** join/#debian martinus__ (~martin@146.56.202.77.rev.sfr.net) |
| 07:09.28 | *** join/#debian ss2 (~user@unaffiliated/ss2) |
| 07:12.28 | *** join/#debian kolla (~kolla@cloudsmurf.kolla.no) |
| 07:13.50 | *** join/#debian rgr (~rgr@p200300e4173f383509c33151e84fdf09.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:14.52 | *** join/#debian geeyae (~Thunderbi@103.137.12.52) |
| 07:15.49 | *** join/#debian nyov (~nyov@unaffiliated/nyov) |
| 07:18.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1165] by debhelper |
| 07:20.18 | *** join/#debian bru (~bru@181.31.90.169) |
| 07:21.46 | *** join/#debian ax56234 (~NickServ@unaffiliated/ax56234) |
| 07:24.22 | *** join/#debian tagomago (~tagomago@47.61.234.154) |
| 07:28.52 | *** join/#debian debhead (~debhead@dslb-188-104-100-235.188.104.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 07:32.11 | *** join/#debian luuuciano_ (~luuuciano@unaffiliated/luuuciano) |
| 07:35.23 | *** join/#debian marko1325 (~Thunderbi@217.24.24.177) |
| 07:38.04 | *** join/#debian r0b0 (~robo@bband-dyn84.178-41-241.t-com.sk) |
| 07:38.56 | r0b0 | hello, what is the right way to restart networking in debian buster? I need it to re-read configuration from DHCP.. systemctl restart networking leaves me without an IP address |
| 07:39.00 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f1bf000821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:39.25 | r0b0 | network-manager is not installed |
| 07:39.54 | diogenes_ | systemctl restart NetworkManager |
| 07:40.05 | *** join/#debian pipeclown (~henk@unaffiliated/dreamer) |
| 07:40.09 | jelly-home | r0b0, ifdown and ifup the relevant interface |
| 07:40.47 | r0b0 | jelly-home, yes, that works, thank you |
| 07:42.22 | r0b0 | now I have to figure out how to safely run this over ssh |
| 07:45.19 | jelly-home | there's no way to run it safely remotely. Running "ifdown eth0; ifup eth0" under screen or tmux would be slightly better than running it directly over ssh |
| 07:45.58 | *** join/#debian drzacek (~drzacek@b941c009.business.dg-w.de) |
| 07:46.40 | r0b0 | jelly-home, yes, I know - that's why I prefered when networking.service was able to do this using one command - that was pretty safe |
| 07:48.42 | *** join/#debian szorfein (~daggoth@gateway/tor-sasl/szorfein) |
| 07:49.46 | *** join/#debian dreamon (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) |
| 07:53.17 | *** join/#debian joze (~joze@mhna.info) |
| 07:57.59 | *** join/#debian chele (~chele@ip5b40237d.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 08:01.21 | jelly-home | nah, it only seemed safe and was really less safe than a specific ifdown and ifup |
| 08:02.36 | *** join/#debian Hallcyon (~Hallcyon@122.199.46.116) |
| 08:03.35 | *** join/#debian Kevlar_Noir (~manjaro-u@2a01:e0a:5d7:e1e0::65a1:c7ed) |
| 08:04.18 | r0b0 | ok, right now I only run it on VMs, so I can always fix things up on the console if things go wrong... but eventually, I will need to do it on physical hosts and I cannot take any chances there :) |
| 08:06.15 | *** join/#debian dominik42 (~dominik@p5dde93cd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:08.04 | *** join/#debian black_ant (~antilope@unaffiliated/black-ant/x-1505394) |
| 08:08.40 | *** join/#debian TulaZula (TulaZula@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/tulazula) |
| 08:10.12 | *** join/#debian frgo (~frgo@p200300deef081300b8095a7ed81fc869.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:10.29 | *** join/#debian uvolmer (~uvolmer@2001-4dd0-212c-82-5acc-6b0b-da9c-d52c.ipv6dyn.netcologne.de) |
| 08:11.45 | *** join/#debian Lupricon (~Lupricon@IGLD-83-130-81-166.inter.net.il) |
| 08:13.28 | jelly-home | well, try not to do it until you have access to console |
| 08:14.03 | jelly-home | this is why servers with remote management capability (IPMI, iLO, iDRAC...) are nice |
| 08:17.58 | r0b0 | speaking of iLO, I'll have to re-dhcp those as well, damn! |
| 08:18.44 | *** join/#debian coot (~coot@37.30.55.141.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) |
| 08:19.15 | *** join/#debian geowiesnot (~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 08:21.06 | *** join/#debian Hallcyon (~Hallcyon@89nnjg0xckz9ggn6r5xm.ip6.superloop.com) |
| 08:23.32 | *** part/#debian Xalys (~ircusr@unix.xalys.nl) |
| 08:24.46 | *** join/#debian Texou (~Texou@unaffiliated/texou) |
| 08:24.57 | *** join/#debian rgr (~rgr@p200300e4173f383509c33151e84fdf09.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:25.32 | *** join/#debian sirvolta (SirVolta@gateway/vpn/mullvad/sirvolta) |
| 08:28.01 | *** join/#debian szorfein (~daggoth@gateway/tor-sasl/szorfein) |
| 08:28.17 | *** join/#debian Tobbi (~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi) |
| 08:28.34 | ratrace | if restarting networking.service is "less safe" than running ifdown + ifup ... then a bug report should be filed and the service UNIT amended. I am assuming the problem is in systemd trying ExecStart too fast after ExecStop, so a sleep could be injected in the flow. |
| 08:32.00 | *** part/#debian brigand (~brigand@unaffiliated/brigand) |
| 08:33.03 | *** join/#debian TomyWork (~TomyLobo@p200300e80f23db0085ed59b616e767d3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:35.39 | r0b0 | well, it's quite easily reproducible - run systemctl restart networking and your IP address is gone |
| 08:36.51 | ratrace | r0b0: well yes, it does ifdown -a |
| 08:37.34 | ratrace | I run all server tasks in a tmux session so interrupted networking doesn't crash my session, turning the task I started incomplete and unable to finish properly |
| 08:37.56 | ratrace | or are you saying you _are_ running in tmux or screen and your nics go down and never go back up? |
| 08:38.10 | r0b0 | ratrace, yes |
| 08:38.18 | r0b0 | no |
| 08:38.20 | r0b0 | sorry |
| 08:38.44 | r0b0 | ssh to the machine and run systemctl directly |
| 08:38.53 | ratrace | right, so use tmux or screen next time. also, check the logs. if there _is_ a problem with NICs not coming back at all, it'll surely be logged |
| 08:39.14 | ratrace | r0b0: don't do that :) always use tmux or screen. always. interrupted shell will corrupt the tasks you started. |
| 08:39.43 | ratrace | network could be interrupted by many things, connectivity issues, packet loss between you and the server, your ISPs DSL router restarting right there and then, etc... |
| 08:40.01 | r0b0 | I thought that systemctl is just a "client" to systemd and all those ifdown commands are executed outside my current session |
| 08:40.49 | r0b0 | that's why I thought that it might be quite safe |
| 08:40.52 | ratrace | I'm not sure how exactly systemctl and PID1 interact |
| 08:41.08 | ratrace | but always check the logs. can you pastebin those? |
| 08:43.49 | *** join/#debian miguel_clean (~Miguel@89-72-187-203.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 08:44.10 | *** join/#debian thiras (~thiras@unaffiliated/thiras) |
| 08:45.24 | r0b0 | https://pastebin.com/djMCUDmp |
| 08:46.26 | ratrace | r0b0: that's all? nothing after Starting Raise network interfaces ? |
| 08:47.24 | r0b0 | yes' that's it.. kernel reboot after a couple of minutes when I gave up and rebooted the machine on the console |
| 08:48.01 | ratrace | try restarting networking.service from a tmux or screen session. |
| 08:48.53 | ratrace | when you strace systemctl you can see it attaches to pid1 and the trace goes on into the (re)started service. So I'm convinced that network stopping drops systemctl which interrupts the flow |
| 08:49.24 | r0b0 | same - screen doesn't help |
| 08:50.14 | r0b0 | on the console now - no IP address on the eth interface, screen session running |
| 08:51.15 | r0b0 | I have to run ifup eth0 to get it working |
| 08:51.36 | r0b0 | systemctl process in the screen session finished btw |
| 08:52.05 | r0b0 | I am pretty sure this used to work on older releases |
| 08:52.16 | *** join/#debian alpernebbi (~quassel@178.233.26.119) |
| 08:52.19 | r0b0 | can anyone reproduce, please? |
| 08:52.34 | *** join/#debian vincent-- (~vincent-@unaffiliated/vincent-) |
| 08:53.26 | jelly-home | which part of "don't restart networking service" was unclear |
| 08:53.44 | *** join/#debian knidos (~knidos@85.98.19.50) |
| 08:54.02 | ratrace | r0b0: WorksForMe(tm) |
| 08:54.06 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f1bf000821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:54.17 | jelly | it was unreliable before systemd, and it doesn't surprise me it's unreliable now |
| 08:54.39 | ratrace | if it's unreliable fix the service unit |
| 08:54.47 | ratrace | it literally just does ifdown -a + ifup -a |
| 08:55.21 | jelly | it used to do all kind of weird stuff, like down "lo" and never bring it back |
| 08:55.29 | *** join/#debian Haudegen (~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at) |
| 08:56.03 | *** join/#debian BrutalBeats7 (~hexchat@unaffiliated/brutalbeats7) |
| 08:56.05 | ratrace | then one should investigate _why_ it doesn't bring it back. one likely cause is ExecStart firing too soon after ExecStop |
| 08:56.30 | jelly | I don't have the will to investigate exactly how it works and how it's supposed to work and why it breaks at times |
| 08:57.02 | jelly | I know explicit ifdown and ifup on a specific iface work much better |
| 08:57.20 | *** join/#debian Major_Biscuit (~Major_Bis@82-169-100-198.biz.kpn.net) |
| 08:57.45 | r0b0 | jelly, yes, you made that clear and it was very helpful, thank you, but now you are not being helpful |
| 08:58.30 | ratrace | r0b0: alternatively, you could try switching to systemd-networkd if the ifupdown system is unreliable. |
| 08:58.48 | r0b0 | ratrace, yes I'll investigate it |
| 08:58.59 | r0b0 | kthanxbye |
| 08:59.10 | *** join/#debian fmerges (~fmerges@37.red-88-22-26.staticip.rima-tde.net) |
| 09:00.37 | jelly | ah, didn't notice they rebooted |
| 09:01.33 | ratrace | networking.service is a regular part of debian. if it doens't work properly, that's a bug. now of course, use cases vary, but in my case, I've never had issues with it. the part where I did have issues with restarting networking service on debian even before systemd, was timing of start after stop, esp. when dhcp is involved. |
| 09:02.36 | ratrace | (or to rephrase better (my coooffffeeee is still brewing) I don't have issues with networking.service, I had issues with /etc/init.d/networking) |
| 09:02.56 | jelly | nod |
| 09:03.01 | ratrace | which isn't surprising. systemd just runs ExecStop and ExecStart. the init shellscript is all kinds of mess |
| 09:04.06 | ratrace | too bad they quit. I'd ask them to inject a sleep in the unit's ExecStart and perhaps confirm this timing theory. |
| 09:05.17 | *** join/#debian szorfein (~daggoth@gateway/tor-sasl/szorfein) |
| 09:05.40 | *** join/#debian diogenes_ (~diogenes_@188.208.121.223) |
| 09:06.00 | *** join/#debian miscellaneousbus (~miscbus@pool-74-98-213-171.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 09:06.38 | *** join/#debian sinaowolabi (~Sina@169.159.74.124) |
| 09:08.39 | *** join/#debian hendursa1 (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga) |
| 09:16.48 | *** join/#debian eki (~eki@dsl-hkibng41-54f858-46.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 09:17.29 | *** join/#debian darunesh (~darunesh@122.170.110.31) |
| 09:19.28 | *** join/#debian lupulo (~lupulo@163.117.64.56) |
| 09:21.46 | *** join/#debian fb_ (~freebench@92.253.250.136) |
| 09:23.17 | *** join/#debian \\Mr_C\\ (~mrc@cpe-75-187-191-230.neo.res.rr.com) |
| 09:24.12 | *** join/#debian w-oertl (~wolfgang@cm56-194-159.liwest.at) |
| 09:28.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1171] by debhelper |
| 09:28.03 | *** join/#debian darunesh_ (~darunesh@122.170.110.31) |
| 09:33.59 | *** join/#debian galex-713 (~quassel@portable.galex-713.eu) |
| 09:34.07 | *** join/#debian sinaowolabi (~Sina@105.112.147.95) |
| 09:35.45 | *** join/#debian rando25892 (~rando2589@unaffiliated/rando25892) |
| 09:36.16 | *** join/#debian otisolsen70 (~otisolsen@xd4ed80b5.cust.hiper.dk) |
| 09:38.40 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f1bf000821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:38.44 | *** join/#debian mortderire (mortderire@nat/intel/x-dzhcgpvjjdzvhyfp) |
| 09:43.26 | *** join/#debian wytchmaster (~wytchmast@gateway.proxion.net) |
| 09:44.06 | *** join/#debian ml| (~ml|@unaffiliated/ml/x-3958674) |
| 09:45.27 | *** join/#debian unluckyshrubbery (~unluckysh@unaffiliated/unluckyshrubbery) |
| 09:49.32 | *** join/#debian Slashman (~Slash@2a01:e0a:278:ed10:d9c:be37:eb1d:1df4) |
| 09:50.33 | *** join/#debian D4rk4ngel2020 (~darkangel@milik.frozenstar.info) |
| 09:52.50 | *** join/#debian w-oertl (~wolfgang@cm56-194-159.liwest.at) |
| 09:59.37 | *** join/#debian n4dir (~n4dir@mue-88-130-57-165.dsl.tropolys.de) |
| 10:00.02 | *** join/#debian D4rk4ngel2020 (~darkangel@milik.frozenstar.info) |
| 10:00.44 | *** join/#debian desuwulf (sid36738@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-prkdeunxyvayxpxr) |
| 10:00.58 | *** join/#debian bliminse_ivan12 (~Ivan@gateway/tor-sasl/bliminseivan12/x-70753866) |
| 10:01.49 | *** join/#debian zamnedix (~zamnedix@zamnedix.net) |
| 10:05.09 | *** join/#debian EmleyMoor (42b789682f@firthpark.tinsleyviaduct.com) |
| 10:05.24 | *** join/#debian bigLITTLE (~saputra@bifrost.itmate.net) |
| 10:06.47 | *** join/#debian Jerrynicki (~niklas@p200300f577076100a9f99925fcb778f8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:08.42 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f1bf000821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:11.20 | *** join/#debian galex-713 (~quassel@portable.galex-713.eu) |
| 10:12.01 | *** join/#debian szorfein (~daggoth@gateway/tor-sasl/szorfein) |
| 10:13.14 | *** join/#debian Nefertiti (~Nefertiti@unaffiliated/nefertiti) |
| 10:16.45 | *** join/#debian D4rk4ngel2020 (~darkangel@milik.frozenstar.info) |
| 10:17.25 | *** join/#debian msantana (~darkstar@unaffiliated/darkstar) |
| 10:18.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1177] by debhelper |
| 10:18.20 | *** join/#debian darunesh (~darunesh@122.170.110.31) |
| 10:23.20 | *** join/#debian mbrad (~mbrad@97e0ddc3.skybroadband.com) |
| 10:25.40 | *** join/#debian D4rk4ngel2020 (~darkangel@milik.frozenstar.info) |
| 10:30.23 | *** join/#debian bertbob (~bertbob@67-2-11-203.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 10:31.13 | *** join/#debian Lord_of_Life (~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362) |
| 10:33.11 | desuwulf | mmm, so I found a very old box of mine that has 6 sata drives that used to run an mdadm raid6... 10 years ago until it died. I managed to fix it(cpu&mobo swap needed), but now of course the array isn't coming offline. Backed up with dd/sgdisk/parted the partition data for now but it seems a bit devoid of anything. mdadm --assemble -v complains of "no RAID superblock" for any of those devices(funny enough, the RAID1 os |
| 10:33.12 | desuwulf | drives assemble and run fine). mdadm.conf still has the uuid based raid id, but doesn't find anything in scan so it doesn't assemble. |
| 10:33.27 | desuwulf | The slight weirdness is iirc this was both GPT disk + full disk mdadm |
| 10:33.37 | desuwulf | but I can't exactly remember... thoughts on how could I dry-run this? |
| 10:33.45 | *** join/#debian coot (~coot@2a02:a311:433f:a080:2f8e:acf5:8455:513f) |
| 10:34.34 | desuwulf | I'd mdadm --create but it obviously gives a fair amount of warning this might nuke it all.. |
| 10:38.44 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f1bf000821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:41.19 | *** join/#debian NetTerminalGene (~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/dontknow) |
| 10:41.20 | *** join/#debian Mister00X (quassel@gateway/vpn/mullvad/mister00x) |
| 10:41.26 | *** join/#debian lucad111 (~lucad111@linaro/lucad111) |
| 10:43.07 | *** join/#debian Hallcyon (~Hallcyon@89nnjg0xckz9ggn6r5xm.ip6.superloop.com) |
| 10:53.26 | *** join/#debian endstille (~endstille@94.31.101.216) |
| 10:54.39 | *** join/#debian tuxmania (~tuxmania@cosium-fo-152-18.fib.nerim.net) |
| 10:56.03 | *** join/#debian nifker (~Thunderbi@200116b80a2bc200049662feb6b93f7c.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
| 10:59.17 | *** join/#debian rewrited (~rewrited@unaffiliated/rewrited) |
| 11:00.52 | *** join/#debian wsky (uid453465@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-loswdvhzoianltsy) |
| 11:06.09 | *** join/#debian galex-713 (~quassel@portable.galex-713.eu) |
| 11:07.03 | *** join/#debian riff-IRC (~riff2@unaffiliated/riff2) |
| 11:09.22 | *** join/#debian banox (~banox@37.120.203.196) |
| 11:09.58 | *** join/#debian darunesh_ (~darunesh@122.170.110.31) |
| 11:11.08 | *** join/#debian dselect (~dselect@unaffiliated/themill/bot/dselect) |
| 11:12.33 | *** join/#debian frgo (~frgo@p200300deef081300b8095a7ed81fc869.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:13.25 | karlpinc | desuwulf: Maybe there's a mdadm version number you need to specify? ?? |
| 11:15.37 | *** join/#debian darunesh (~darunesh@122.170.110.31) |
| 11:18.23 | *** join/#debian jimmiehansson (~jimmie@m83-185-89-237.cust.tele2.se) |
| 11:19.22 | *** join/#debian Scotty_Trees (~Scotty_Tr@162-234-179-169.lightspeed.brhmal.sbcglobal.net) |
| 11:22.36 | *** join/#debian galex-713 (~quassel@portable.galex-713.eu) |
| 11:23.03 | *** join/#debian Slashman (~Slash@cosium-fo-152-18.fib.nerim.net) |
| 11:27.23 | *** join/#debian darunesh_ (~darunesh@122.170.110.31) |
| 11:28.03 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1183] by debhelper |
| 11:28.42 | desuwulf | karlpinc: mmm good point, version shouldn't have changed but let me check |
| 11:30.23 | *** join/#debian shokohsc (~shokohsc@145.130.123.78.rev.sfr.net) |
| 11:30.26 | *** join/#debian tmm88 (0253f066@unaffiliated/tmm88) |
| 11:30.41 | *** join/#debian BrianG61UK__ (~BrianG61U@2a02:8010:66b7:dddd:8d29:1d25:c765:cca9) |
| 11:32.14 | *** join/#debian AquaL1te (~AquaL1te@unaffiliated/aqual1te) |
| 11:34.17 | *** join/#debian dtcrshr (~dtcrshr@unaffiliated/datacrusher) |
| 11:35.34 | *** join/#debian BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@2a02:8010:66b7:dddd:a0b6:febf:4234:2c75) |
| 11:37.05 | *** join/#debian BrianG61UK_ (~BrianG61U@2a02:8010:66b7:dddd:a0b6:febf:4234:2c75) |
| 11:38.50 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f1bf000821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:41.07 | *** join/#debian _Matth_ (~Matth@101.158.31.150.dy.iij4u.or.jp) |
| 11:46.52 | *** join/#debian D4rk4ngel2020 (~darkangel@milik.frozenstar.info) |
| 11:47.45 | *** join/#debian czesmir (~stefan@aean17.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 11:51.04 | *** join/#debian filohuhum (~filohuhum@gateway/tor-sasl/filohuhum) |
| 11:51.19 | *** join/#debian coot (~coot@37.30.55.141.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) |
| 11:52.21 | *** join/#debian BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@2a02:8010:66b7:dddd:a0b6:febf:4234:2c75) |
| 11:54.16 | *** join/#debian lewnidas_ (~lewnidas_@2a02:587:796e:cdaf:a1d7:704d:c9fc:d73c) |
| 11:55.10 | Deknos | is there any way to check if there's any process/software using fanotify? |
| 11:56.49 | *** join/#debian mitrokov (~mitrokov@176.59.13.175) |
| 11:57.14 | azeem | Deknos: do you have a virus scanner installed? |
| 11:57.32 | *** join/#debian diogenes_ (~diogenes_@93.116.130.26) |
| 11:57.52 | Deknos | yes. but i do not see any kernel module but it seemingly can interject the mozilla download. |
| 11:57.58 | Deknos | hi azeem btw :) |
| 11:58.21 | *** join/#debian D4rk4ngel2020 (~darkangel@milik.frozenstar.info) |
| 11:58.25 | azeem | I think fanotify is a kernel interface, not a module |
| 11:59.01 | Deknos | yeah, but either its an kernel module OR it is fanotify, which is an interface, yes |
| 12:00.02 | *** join/#debian nulleip (~luiz@189.34.167.63) |
| 12:00.04 | azeem | so you want something like strace | grep fanotify, but system-wide and it should tell you when a process runs the fanotify system call? |
| 12:01.07 | *** join/#debian TomyWork (~TomyLobo@p200300e80f23db000dd4c5397733a74c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:02.08 | *** join/#debian D4rk4ngel2020 (~darkangel@milik.frozenstar.info) |
| 12:05.26 | *** join/#debian dpkg (~dpkg@unaffiliated/dpkg) |
| 12:05.45 | Deknos | hrm, yeah i see the problem |
| 12:08.27 | azeem | well, maybe ebpf/perf can do that |
| 12:08.32 | azeem | but I wouldn't know |
| 12:08.52 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f1bf000821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:09.06 | azeem | at least you could look into that and use them to trace candidate processes I guess |
| 12:09.51 | *** join/#debian fmaurer (~quassel@188.126.166.3) |
| 12:09.52 | *** join/#debian short-bike (~short-bik@centos/community/short-bike) |
| 12:10.17 | *** join/#debian th0r (~th0r@5.sub-174-250-36.myvzw.com) |
| 12:10.29 | Deknos | yeah, i think i will do that |
| 12:12.57 | *** join/#debian plantroon (~plantroon@91.236.69.232) |
| 12:15.33 | *** join/#debian filohuhum (~filohuhum@gateway/tor-sasl/filohuhum) |
| 12:15.37 | *** join/#debian citral23 (~citral@astrasbourg-256-1-5-214.w92-161.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 12:18.42 | *** join/#debian ghost43_ (~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer) |
| 12:18.43 | *** join/#debian captSamIngram (~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/captsamingram) |
| 12:19.18 | *** join/#debian Onyx47 (~onyx@cpe-46-234-76-203.static1.client.xnet.hr) |
| 12:19.26 | *** join/#debian stevecam (~Stephen@unaffiliated/stevecam) |
| 12:20.36 | *** join/#debian dez (uid92154@fedora/deSouza) |
| 12:20.56 | *** join/#debian SpeedyG (~SpeedyG@unaffiliated/speedyg) |
| 12:21.54 | *** join/#debian ikus060 (~ikus060@173-246-15-25.qc.cable.ebox.net) |
| 12:22.14 | *** join/#debian riff-IRC (~riff2@unaffiliated/riff2) |
| 12:24.13 | *** join/#debian fling (~fling@fsf/member/fling) |
| 12:26.19 | *** join/#debian Christian75 (~Christian@wikipedia/christian75) |
| 12:28.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1189] by debhelper |
| 12:30.05 | *** join/#debian fling (~fling@fsf/member/fling) |
| 12:31.19 | *** join/#debian d1cor (~d1cor@unaffiliated/d1cor) |
| 12:32.59 | *** join/#debian Flukp (~Flukp@178-175-131-101.static.as43289.net) |
| 12:33.11 | *** join/#debian Brigo (~Brigo@40.181.60.213.dynamic.reverse-mundo-r.com) |
| 12:36.57 | *** join/#debian BoNgleger (~bongleger@ip4d160505.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 12:38.02 | *** join/#debian Christian75 (~Christian@wikipedia/christian75) |
| 12:40.59 | *** join/#debian xet7 (~xet7@85-156-127-25.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 12:42.01 | *** join/#debian idlestranger (idlestrang@gateway/vpn/mullvad/idlestranger) |
| 12:42.58 | *** join/#debian Mister00X (quassel@gateway/vpn/mullvad/mister00x) |
| 12:43.13 | *** join/#debian tgunr (admin@dsl-dhcp-conrtxxahre-72-26-5-102.consolidated.net) |
| 12:48.17 | *** join/#debian rgr (~rgr@p200300e4173f383509c33151e84fdf09.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:48.32 | *** join/#debian SerpentSpeech (serpent@unaffiliated/serpentspeech) |
| 12:49.05 | *** join/#debian towo` (~towo@unaffiliated/towo/x-4064351) |
| 12:53.55 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f1bf000821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:54.02 | *** join/#debian Christian75 (~Christian@wikipedia/christian75) |
| 12:54.17 | *** join/#debian ZeroWalker (~Zerowalke@h-162-105.A785.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 12:55.23 | *** join/#debian D4rk4ngel2020 (~darkangel@milik.frozenstar.info) |
| 12:56.27 | ZeroWalker | i am trying to setup a symbolic link of a folder to /var/html/www/... basically it's to develop so i don't have to copy the data. I got the pointer right but it's not working and i might be cause the link permissions is root:root and i can't seem to change it, the source it the same as the other folders at the destination though |
| 12:58.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1197] by debhelper |
| 13:05.44 | karlpinc | ZeroWalker: Link permissions don't matter. |
| 13:05.52 | karlpinc | (For some value of "matter".) |
| 13:07.25 | *** join/#debian Bjornn (~Bjornn@2603-7080-9201-553f-0000-db01-be7a-1c9a.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 13:07.33 | *** join/#debian cliluw (~cliluw@unaffiliated/cliluw) |
| 13:09.57 | *** join/#debian allorder (allorder@gateway/vpn/airvpn/allorder) |
| 13:10.34 | *** join/#debian lazr47 (~lazr47@69-58-32-213.kresanet.org) |
| 13:10.49 | *** join/#debian _Matth_ (~Matth@101.158.31.150.dy.iij4u.or.jp) |
| 13:10.51 | ZeroWalker | oh |
| 13:11.40 | ZeroWalker | okay i see it now, it wasn't properly setup so it didn't appear (it's a joomla module) so assumed it was the permissions |
| 13:11.49 | ZeroWalker | nice thanks! |
| 13:15.19 | *** join/#debian igrtrrt (~igrtrrt@189.120.76.30) |
| 13:18.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1190] by debhelper |
| 13:19.12 | *** join/#debian thiras (~thiras@unaffiliated/thiras) |
| 13:19.17 | *** join/#debian nsrafkTL (~inkognito@unaffiliated/nsrafk) |
| 13:19.23 | *** join/#debian soul-d (~name@2a02-a456-85ad-1-b0e6-e4ba-522e-3a43.fixed6.kpn.net) |
| 13:20.12 | *** join/#debian rgr (~rgr@p200300e4173f383509c33151e84fdf09.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:21.30 | *** join/#debian nsrafk (~inkognito@unaffiliated/nsrafk) |
| 13:23.06 | *** join/#debian Scotty_Trees (~Scotty_Tr@162-234-179-169.lightspeed.brhmal.sbcglobal.net) |
| 13:25.27 | *** join/#debian notuser (~user@unaffiliated/absinthe) |
| 13:26.17 | *** join/#debian oxek (oxek@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/oxek) |
| 13:27.43 | *** join/#debian cosimone (~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:e434:bd94:98f9:541d) |
| 13:28.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1197] by debhelper |
| 13:30.36 | *** join/#debian LucaTM (~LucaTM@unaffiliated/lucatm) |
| 13:30.41 | desuwulf | side note: using overlays to test mdadm create operations is good:) allows to not bork the data haha |
| 13:31.37 | *** join/#debian cstls (~cstls@2603-7081-063c-8000-2881-9d85-0a6c-437b.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 13:31.40 | desuwulf | (not that it's helping, I forced the right version, chunk size, algorithm, number of disks, raid level, and... nothing:)) |
| 13:37.18 | *** join/#debian countdigi (~countdigi@47.204.252.248) |
| 13:39.32 | wsky | i shoot thieves |
| 13:42.27 | *** join/#debian store_scarecrow (~Andrew_00@host-74.91.78.101.bpsnetworks.com) |
| 13:43.21 | *** join/#debian Ticho_ (~Ticho@unaffiliated/ticho) |
| 13:46.32 | *** join/#debian greycat (~greg@209.142.155.49) |
| 13:47.49 | *** join/#debian mtn (~mtn@unaffiliated/mtn) |
| 13:48.39 | *** join/#debian aidanpr (~aidanpr@205.185.113.93) |
| 13:51.05 | *** join/#debian macrobat (~beep@h-201-158.A785.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 13:52.18 | *** join/#debian nsrafkTL (~inkognito@unaffiliated/nsrafk) |
| 13:52.20 | *** join/#debian nsrafk (~inkognito@unaffiliated/nsrafk) |
| 13:54.42 | *** join/#debian countdigi (~countskm@47.204.252.248) |
| 13:57.07 | *** join/#debian cdown (~cdown@89.32.122.5) |
| 13:59.11 | *** join/#debian Major_Biscuit (~Major_Bis@82-169-100-198.biz.kpn.net) |
| 14:00.05 | *** join/#debian rnm (~rnm@unaffiliated/rnm) |
| 14:01.44 | *** join/#debian store_scarecrow0 (~Andrew_00@host-74.91.78.101.bpsnetworks.com) |
| 14:01.59 | *** join/#debian Christian75_ (~Christian@wikipedia/christian75) |
| 14:02.24 | *** join/#debian rwtrecs (~rewrited@unaffiliated/rewrited) |
| 14:02.26 | *** join/#debian banoxen (~banox@37.120.203.196) |
| 14:02.29 | *** join/#debian thiras (~thiras@unaffiliated/thiras) |
| 14:02.52 | *** join/#debian steven_saus (~steven_sa@cpe-74-131-36-220.kya.res.rr.com) |
| 14:03.07 | *** join/#debian Lord_of_Life (~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362) |
| 14:03.45 | *** join/#debian mitrokov (~mitrokov@176.59.13.175) |
| 14:03.59 | *** join/#debian freem (~quassel@166.ip-51-178-51.eu) |
| 14:04.24 | ZeroWalker | what affect does the clock-setup/utc have, is there some pros con for it? as far as i recall it messes up time with windows cause it doesn't use utc per default, so dual booting causes timezone desync, what i don't really get is how that happens when it's supposed to sync to a time server on either os |
| 14:04.25 | *** join/#debian Bjornn- (~Bjornn@2603-7080-9201-553f-0000-db01-be7a-1c9a.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 14:05.15 | greycat | if your copy of Windows does some kind of internet time sync, then great, you probably won't be affected |
| 14:05.27 | greycat | traditionally, that was not a thing |
| 14:06.26 | *** part/#debian BoNgleger (~bongleger@ip4d160505.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 14:07.06 | *** join/#debian TrentP (~quassel@2604:180:f2::24f) |
| 14:07.14 | ratrace | it's not about time sync (which windows has had for... ever?), it's about windows tendencies to store localtime in the rtc. but windows now (win10 and I don't know how back in releases) has the ability to store UTC time, removing the problme |
| 14:07.15 | *** join/#debian Zblakany (~Zblakany@host-188-122-1-230.finemedia.pl) |
| 14:07.40 | ratrace | altrenatively, time on the linux side could be set in localtime too, instead of default UTC, to cater to windows, but that's no longer needed, as windows can track UTC |
| 14:08.47 | ratrace | this btw affects VMs as well |
| 14:08.59 | *** join/#debian Posterdati (~posterdat@host-79-37-129-8.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 14:09.47 | *** part/#debian dviola (~diego@unaffiliated/dviola) |
| 14:11.59 | *** join/#debian Bjornn (~Bjornn@2603-7080-9201-553f-0000-db01-be7a-1c9a.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 14:16.16 | *** join/#debian paulgrmn (~paulgrmn@c-98-250-183-21.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 14:16.57 | *** join/#debian dashs (~dave@dashs.denver.co.us) |
| 14:16.57 | *** join/#debian JordiGH (jordi@octave/developer/JordiGH) |
| 14:17.19 | *** join/#debian Bjornn (~Bjornn@2603-7080-9201-553f-0000-db01-be7a-1c9a.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 14:18.04 | *** join/#debian gryffus (~gryffus@unaffiliated/gryffus) |
| 14:20.11 | *** join/#debian s8548a (~s8548a@unaffiliated/s8548a) |
| 14:20.13 | *** join/#debian Bjornn (~Bjornn@2603-7080-9201-553f-0000-db01-be7a-1c9a.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 14:22.07 | *** part/#debian JordiGH (jordi@octave/developer/JordiGH) |
| 14:24.15 | *** join/#debian kriger (~norge@unaffiliated/kriger) |
| 14:24.27 | *** join/#debian fmerges (~fmerges@37.red-88-22-26.staticip.rima-tde.net) |
| 14:25.27 | *** join/#debian Bjornn- (~Bjornn@2603-7080-9201-553f-0000-db01-be7a-1c9a.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 14:25.44 | *** join/#debian MrBuck (~Mrbuck@gateway/tor-sasl/mrbuck) |
| 14:28.55 | *** part/#debian brust (~ol@h-174-236.A785.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 14:29.13 | *** join/#debian Bjorn- (~Bjornn@2603-7080-9201-553f-0000-db01-be7a-1c9a.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 14:31.37 | *** join/#debian Haudegen (~quassel@91.114.49.10) |
| 14:33.12 | *** join/#debian gnufr33dom (~gnufr33do@2600:8801:130e:c600::fd8a) |
| 14:33.29 | *** join/#debian CrystalMath (~coderain@reactos/developer/theflash) |
| 14:33.59 | *** join/#debian Trellmor (~Trellmor@vm3.srv5.trellmor.eu) |
| 14:34.47 | *** join/#debian igrtrrt (~igrtrrt@189.120.76.30) |
| 14:35.23 | *** join/#debian Bjorn- (~Bjornn@2603-7080-9201-553f-0000-db01-be7a-1c9a.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 14:37.24 | *** join/#debian Bjornn (~Bjornn@2603-7080-9201-553f-0000-db01-be7a-1c9a.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 14:39.03 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f1bf000821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:40.55 | *** join/#debian davterra (592e72a6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.46.114.166) |
| 14:42.28 | *** join/#debian maroloccio (~marolocci@pousada3ja.mma.com.br) |
| 14:46.04 | *** join/#debian ddsys (~ddsys@unaffiliated/ddsys) |
| 14:49.49 | *** join/#debian godane (~godane4@104.194.220.64) |
| 14:50.06 | *** join/#debian citral23 (~citral@astrasbourg-256-1-15-30.w92-161.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 14:51.40 | *** join/#debian epony (epony@unaffiliated/epony) |
| 14:55.35 | *** join/#debian burrows (burrows@burrows.cloud) |
| 14:55.54 | *** join/#debian bolovanos (~bolovanos@unaffiliated/bolovanos) |
| 14:58.27 | *** join/#debian twobitsprite (~isaac.fre@cpe-173-95-153-183.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 14:59.38 | *** join/#debian Zblakany (~Zblakany@host-188-122-1-230.finemedia.pl) |
| 15:01.22 | *** join/#debian davterra (592e72a6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.46.114.166) |
| 15:01.24 | RadoS | I have 2 NB with wireless adapters, 1 with iwl, the other with ipw. Via udev I wanted to rename them based on 'KERNEL=="wlan*"', but this applies only to iwl, not ipw, why isn't ipw also caught by "wlan*" but is by "eth*" like LAN NICs? |
| 15:01.35 | *** part/#debian davterra (592e72a6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.46.114.166) |
| 15:03.06 | *** join/#debian geeyae (~Thunderbi@103.137.12.52) |
| 15:03.24 | *** join/#debian store_scarecrow0 (~Andrew_00@host-74.91.78.101.bpsnetworks.com) |
| 15:03.39 | *** join/#debian Newami (~Newami@ip70-179-45-125.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 15:05.33 | *** join/#debian Spr1ng (~Spr1ng@unaffiliated/spr1ng) |
| 15:06.12 | *** join/#debian mirrorbird (~psutcliff@2a00:801:42d:5efa:6585:c362:5f1c:676) |
| 15:07.28 | *** join/#debian igrtrrt (~igrtrrt@189.120.76.30) |
| 15:08.07 | *** join/#debian coot (~coot@37.30.55.141.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) |
| 15:08.44 | *** join/#debian maroloccio (~marolocci@pousada3ja.mma.com.br) |
| 15:09.18 | *** join/#debian blowry (~blowry@2001:19f0:5c01:1524:5400:2ff:fe3e:d51c) |
| 15:10.35 | *** join/#debian ChmEarl (~chmearl@unaffiliated/prymar56) |
| 15:12.22 | *** join/#debian rgr (~rgr@p200300e4173f383509c33151e84fdf09.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:12.54 | *** join/#debian maroloccio (~marolocci@pousada3ja.mma.com.br) |
| 15:14.15 | *** join/#debian MrFixIt (~Sam@c-73-246-215-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 15:15.34 | jelly | NB? |
| 15:15.47 | jelly | will read that as "machines" |
| 15:16.05 | *** part/#debian igrtrrt (~igrtrrt@189.120.76.30) |
| 15:16.13 | *** join/#debian igrtrrt (~igrtrrt@189.120.76.30) |
| 15:18.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1205] by debhelper |
| 15:18.13 | *** join/#debian n4dir (~n4dir@mue-88-130-57-165.dsl.tropolys.de) |
| 15:19.22 | *** join/#debian nebunez (~user@c-73-171-175-205.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 15:19.42 | RadoS | Notebooks |
| 15:19.58 | *** join/#debian zalt (~devp@unaffiliated/lambda443) |
| 15:21.09 | greycat | I don't know much about your hardware or its drivers and firmware, but the udev method of interface naming is deprecated in buster, and not guaranteed to work. The systemd "dot link" method is what you're supposed to use now. |
| 15:21.39 | greycat | man 5 systemd.link or see various internet documentation |
| 15:22.49 | RadoS | greycat, thanks for pointer, reading. |
| 15:22.56 | dob1 | in a script I have command1 & --new line -- command2 & --new line -- command3 & -- new line-- but I still see the outout of the commands on console |
| 15:23.08 | dob1 | *output |
| 15:23.10 | greycat | Well yeah, you didn't redirect the output. |
| 15:23.48 | dob1 | comand1 & > /dev/null ? |
| 15:23.55 | greycat | redirection has to be before the & |
| 15:24.06 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f1bf000821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:24.18 | RadoS | greycat, is the whole use of udev replaced or just the naming part? |
| 15:24.29 | greycat | I really don't know. |
| 15:25.08 | RadoS | How do you know that it was deprecated? |
| 15:25.17 | greycat | Because I read the release notes. |
| 15:25.23 | dob1 | command1 > /dev/null & |
| 15:25.40 | RadoS | catches up on reading those, too. |
| 15:25.50 | *** join/#debian Ericounet (~Eric@2a01:e0a:d0:3c20:8b2a:fb10:5ce9:b2a7) |
| 15:25.57 | *** join/#debian tzf (~tyzef@43.231.30.223) |
| 15:27.19 | dob1 | it's something else &> right? |
| 15:27.22 | *** join/#debian bifunc2 (bifunc2@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/bifunc2) |
| 15:27.34 | *** join/#debian cdown_ (~cdown@163.114.131.1) |
| 15:27.49 | greycat | that's a bashism and you should just not use it |
| 15:27.53 | bifunc2 | What are some security risks of installing firmware_all*.deb to make wifi work? https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Dell/Dell_XPS_15_9570 |
| 15:28.11 | bifunc2 | could they read my files and send them "home"? |
| 15:28.35 | greycat | when bash was originally being developed, csh was still very popular, so to help people transition away from it, bash adopted a lot of csh crap |
| 15:28.41 | jelly | bifunc2, your machine may gain access to a network, that's a huge attack surface right there |
| 15:28.57 | *** join/#debian igrtrrt (~igrtrrt@189.120.76.30) |
| 15:29.04 | greycat | csh does not have the ability to redirect stderr in isolation; it can only redirect stdout alone, or stdout and stderr together. |
| 15:29.23 | greycat | the &> redirection operator from csh is how it does the latter, and bash adopted it, but it's still crap |
| 15:29.49 | greycat | or maybe it was >& in csh, who knows, who cares, bash adopted both, and they're both crap |
| 15:30.12 | greycat | your life becomes a whole lot easier if you just use the standard posix sh redirection syntax consistently |
| 15:31.18 | bifunc2 | ok.. |
| 15:31.31 | jelly | bifunc2, if you're installing for the first time on this laptop you might as well use the installer images that already contain the firmware, |
| 15:31.34 | jelly | !firmware images |
| 15:31.34 | dpkg | There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ The images are "unofficial" because "official Debian" includes only 100% free software. They are otherwise identical to the normal installer images and prepared by the same Debian Developers. See <check iso>. |
| 15:34.23 | bifunc2 | jelly, in practice would you say these non-free softwares are trustworthy? |
| 15:34.33 | jelly | that way you can have network access during installation |
| 15:35.00 | *** join/#debian cdown_ (~cdown@89.32.122.5) |
| 15:35.42 | jelly | bifunc2, the firmware comes from the same vendor that made the hardware (eg. the wifi card in your laptop). It's not any more or any less trustworthy than the hardware. |
| 15:35.44 | greycat | sadly if you want wireless, you pretty much *have* to use some non-free firmware at the bare minimum |
| 15:35.58 | jelly | unless specific atheros chips |
| 15:37.00 | jelly | bitblit, do you trust Dell and its choice of hardware? |
| 15:37.19 | jelly | bifunc2, do you trust Dell and its choice of hardware components? |
| 15:37.25 | bifunc2 | not really lol |
| 15:37.37 | jelly | then why the hell did you get a dell laptop |
| 15:37.40 | *** join/#debian bertbob (~bertbob@67-2-49-193.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 15:37.49 | bifunc2 | i haven't yet. it's on the list though |
| 15:38.15 | bifunc2 | due to intel ME, nobody can be trusted really other than purism or maybe some system76 laptops.. |
| 15:38.15 | *** join/#debian igrtrrt_ (~igrtrrt@189.120.76.30) |
| 15:38.26 | bifunc2 | lol why do they have to make things so complicated... |
| 15:38.29 | jelly | ME is the least of your problems |
| 15:38.31 | bifunc2 | just keep it open source |
| 15:38.41 | wsky | open source is a limit |
| 15:38.54 | wsky | open hardware is not that popular |
| 15:39.28 | jelly | if you don't trust the platform vendor (Intel for ME), don't use the platform, but realize your choices become VERY limited |
| 15:40.02 | jelly | basically you can buy a 8-10 year old laptop than either does not have ME or it can be neutered |
| 15:40.04 | bifunc2 | jelly, yes even with dell + linux, i'm already way ahead of ANYTHING+macOS/Windows |
| 15:40.42 | wsky | you're not ahead of macos |
| 15:40.42 | bifunc2 | since macOS/Windows are blatant spyware constantly phoning home |
| 15:40.58 | wsky | macos is far way advanced |
| 15:42.36 | *** join/#debian foxide (~foxide@gowron.foxide.io) |
| 15:43.41 | bifunc2 | jelly this site https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi talks about the "TP-Link TL WN821N" USB-wifi adapter. It seems it can be found on eBay currently. What do you think? Worth a try? |
| 15:43.54 | abrotman | MacOS is a pile of garbage, bring it to #debian-offtopic if you want to discuss :) |
| 15:46.33 | *** join/#debian tytan (~dca@dslb-178-003-146-015.178.003.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 15:46.38 | *** part/#debian hop (~hop@nl48.30hopsmax.at) |
| 15:47.08 | tytan | Hello everyone, where can I see what Kernel version Debian testing is using? |
| 15:47.14 | tytan | (not installed) |
| 15:47.34 | greycat | ,kernels |
| 15:47.35 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.10.0-trunk-686 (5.10.2-1~exp1); sid: 5.10.0-3-686-pae (5.10.12-1); bullseye: 5.10.0-2-686-pae (5.10.9-1); buster-backports: 5.9.0-0.bpo.5-686-pae (5.9.15-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-14-686-pae (4.19.171-2); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.13-686 (4.19.160-2~deb9u1); jessie- |
| 15:47.36 | judd | backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1) |
| 15:48.22 | tytan | Does it mean I could install 5.9 as a backport in Debian 10.7? |
| 15:48.31 | greycat | yes |
| 15:48.36 | tytan | Awesome! |
| 15:48.47 | greycat | !buster-backports |
| 15:48.48 | dpkg | Some packages intended for Bullseye (Debian 11) but recompiled for use with Buster (Debian 10) can be found in the buster-backports repository. See http://backports.debian.org/Instructions/ . Ask me about <bdo>, <backports>. |
| 15:49.26 | tytan | !vim |
| 15:49.26 | dpkg | Vi IMproved (vim) is an enhanced <vi> editor. Extremely popular clone with syntax highlighting and graphical X interface available. The vim-tiny package no longer installs vim <alternatives> as of version 2:7.2.049-1 (Debian bug #529977). See also <vim refcard>, <cream>, <colored pager>, <vim syntax highlighting>. http://www.vim.org/ http://vim.wikia.com/ #vim on irc.freenode.net. |
| 15:49.36 | tytan | !wireguard |
| 15:49.36 | dpkg | wireguard is probably an in-kernel layer 3 VPN with a reputation for speed and code simplicity. See https://wiki.debian.org/Wireguard and https://www.wireguard.com/ |
| 15:49.46 | greycat | you can also /msg the bot to get private answers |
| 15:49.56 | tytan | nice to know. thanks |
| 15:50.11 | tytan | Have a nice day everyone! |
| 15:53.27 | *** join/#debian ph4nt0m (~ph4nt0m@unaffiliated/ph4nt0m) |
| 15:56.11 | *** join/#debian yans (~yans@unaffiliated/yinsen) |
| 15:58.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1198] by debhelper |
| 15:58.13 | *** join/#debian nitefall (~thewellin@sea.wellingtonnet.net) |
| 15:58.46 | bifunc2 | hey, to get internet using only open-source software, what about simply buying this https://www.thinkpenguin.com/gnu-linux/penguin-usb-20-hi-speed-10100-fast-ethernet-network-adapter and some wifi extender with ethernet ports and then connect with an ethernet cable? |
| 15:58.51 | bifunc2 | how does this idea sound? |
| 16:00.12 | jelly | will your wifi extender be running only open-source software? |
| 16:00.50 | *** join/#debian blurkis (~blurkis@host-95-203-54-96.mobileonline.telia.com) |
| 16:01.05 | jelly | you're just moving the wifi firmware to a different box. |
| 16:01.54 | *** join/#debian YWH_1 (~YWH@2600:1700:1933:238:1d58:cf3a:25ab:c068) |
| 16:02.45 | bifunc2 | yes i will, but at least it's on a device that doesn't have my software and files |
| 16:02.56 | bifunc2 | jelly, would you not say that's at least a little bit of an improvement, |
| 16:03.02 | bifunc2 | i might be missing something.. |
| 16:03.33 | bifunc2 | s/yes i will/yes i am moving the firmware to diff box |
| 16:03.36 | greycat | You are missing the fact that it's non-free FIRMWARE, not non-free software. |
| 16:03.53 | greycat | It already runs in a separate box, that just happens to be inside your computer box. |
| 16:04.08 | bifunc2 | oh.. hmmm! |
| 16:05.03 | *** join/#debian Mister00X (quassel@gateway/vpn/mullvad/mister00x) |
| 16:05.32 | bifunc2 | greycat so all the closed-source firmware installed in debian will, in the end, (since it's firmware) but running one layer below the linux kernel? |
| 16:05.36 | bifunc2 | i.e. below software layer |
| 16:05.50 | bifunc2 | s/but/be |
| 16:05.54 | greycat | it runs on a computer that's inside a piece of hardware such as a network interface |
| 16:07.06 | *** join/#debian tgunr (admin@dsl-dhcp-conrtxxahre-72-26-5-102.consolidated.net) |
| 16:09.27 | *** join/#debian sinaowolabi (~Sina@105.112.147.95) |
| 16:14.14 | *** join/#debian nickname123 (~nickname1@adsl-84-227-66-181.adslplus.ch) |
| 16:15.17 | *** join/#debian ckur13 (~ckur13@c-73-175-240-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 16:15.52 | *** join/#debian Sarcutus (47723067@pool-71-114-48-103.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 16:16.55 | *** join/#debian fmerges (~fmerges@37.red-88-22-26.staticip.rima-tde.net) |
| 16:18.19 | *** join/#debian Steeve (~steve@unaffiliated/steeve) |
| 16:19.23 | *** join/#debian jsubl2 (~jim@184-155-78-197.cpe.sparklight.net) |
| 16:20.48 | *** join/#debian plasticle (~plasticle@cpe-107-15-173-212.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 16:23.40 | *** join/#debian Grldfrdom (uid391113@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aohmimfhlmrhszfl) |
| 16:24.03 | *** part/#debian debhead (~debhead@dslb-188-104-100-235.188.104.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 16:28.53 | *** join/#debian sinaowolabi (~Sina@169.159.74.124) |
| 16:38.42 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f1bf000821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:39.04 | *** join/#debian akaWolf (~akaWolf@unaffiliated/akawolf) |
| 16:39.33 | *** join/#debian mirrorbird (~psutcliff@2a00:801:2d5:848b:590:cf4f:5eeb:b49d) |
| 16:41.08 | *** join/#debian stefanc_diff (~stefanc_d@cpc97950-croy24-2-0-cust78.19-2.cable.virginm.net) |
| 16:44.37 | *** join/#debian zutat (5d83ba1c@unaffiliated/zutat) |
| 16:47.41 | *** join/#debian godane (~godane4@154.16.166.81) |
| 16:48.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1206] by debhelper |
| 16:50.54 | *** join/#debian miscellaneousbus (~miscbus@pool-74-98-213-171.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 16:52.33 | *** join/#debian bn_work (uid268505@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oevzwfxlelafbdcm) |
| 16:54.00 | *** join/#debian conta (Thunderbir@gateway/vpn/mullvad/conta) |
| 16:54.25 | *** join/#debian dashs (~dave@dashs.denver.co.us) |
| 16:55.05 | *** join/#debian Vizva (~Vizva@gateway/tor-sasl/vizva) |
| 16:56.27 | *** join/#debian cdown_ (~cdown@163.114.131.1) |
| 16:58.21 | *** join/#debian diogenes_ (~diogenes_@188.208.123.84) |
| 17:00.07 | *** join/#debian Tom01 (~tom@a89-183-77-40.net-htp.de) |
| 17:01.23 | *** join/#debian tgunr (admin@dsl-dhcp-conrtxxahre-72-26-5-102.consolidated.net) |
| 17:02.02 | vanfanel64 | Can anyone please tell me what I'm doing wrong http://paste.debian.net/hidden/30d4c0aa/ and how to get this to mount correctly, as well as what I could be doing better? |
| 17:03.16 | sney | systemd has a specific .mount type of unit that would be more appropriate than trying to use a oneshot service |
| 17:04.40 | *** join/#debian oemb1905z (~oemb1905@2601:8c3:8100:1cfe:94e6:eaba:ff5a:901a) |
| 17:05.15 | *** join/#debian crazed_ (~quassel@unaffiliated/arqing) |
| 17:05.34 | sney | also if you update to the 5.9 kernel in backports, you can use the mainline exfat driver, so you don't need to deal with fuse shenanigans, though I doubt that's what's causing the failure here |
| 17:06.10 | *** join/#debian plasticbox (~plasticbo@2607:fb90:17c2:87bb:d771:d044:33a0:28b2) |
| 17:07.28 | vanfanel64 | sney, please see my paste, I ma using a .mount to do the mounting. I'm am fairly new to systemd and udev/udisks so I might not be doing this right |
| 17:07.32 | sney | https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.mount.html - you should be able to put your sdcard's /dev/disk/by-id node in the What= field |
| 17:07.43 | vanfanel64 | This system is on kernel 5.6 and I cannot change that right now |
| 17:07.46 | *** join/#debian _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@90.162.105.206) |
| 17:08.01 | sney | no, you're using a .service and calling mount in ExecStart, that's like re-implementing a .mount but worse |
| 17:08.12 | vanfanel64 | Oh, right |
| 17:09.56 | sney | anything like this will require some trial and error, but using the right kind of systemd unit should get you more in the right direction I think. |
| 17:12.15 | vanfanel64 | sney, so I should scrap /etc/systemd/system/data-sdcard-mount.service and write a /etc/systemd/system/data-sdcard.mount instead? And what of my udev rule, should just have the SYMLINK+="datavol" part (which is more of a convience thing that is not needed, as I'm using UUID="3537-3761" in /etc/fstab) and what about the ENV{UDISKS_IGNORE}="1" part? |
| 17:14.13 | *** join/#debian towo^work (~towo@unaffiliated/towo/x-4064351) |
| 17:14.14 | *** join/#debian mick_b64 (~mick@198.144.154.15) |
| 17:14.22 | vanfanel64 | wonders if ,x-systemd.automount=1 could be added to the /etc/fstab entry, or would that not work there? |
| 17:14.55 | vanfanel64 | e.g., defaults,nofail,x-systemd.device-timeout=2ms,x-systemd.automount=1 |
| 17:14.57 | *** join/#debian serard (~salut@2a01:e0a:1cb:2760:74fe:1a90:12e8:5a57) |
| 17:14.58 | serard | hello |
| 17:15.15 | sney | ok first, as you can see from that freedesktop document, .mount files and fstab entries are used the same way by systemd. so pick one or the other. for something like this with a lot of options, the .mount file will be easier to parse/troubleshoot. |
| 17:15.35 | *** join/#debian allorder (allorder@gateway/vpn/airvpn/allorder) |
| 17:16.14 | *** join/#debian cybiko123 (~cybiko123@desktop-20.dyn.wpi.edu) |
| 17:16.19 | sney | second, I don't see why you need to symlink the device node, unless that's required for making udisks ignore this device, it sounds like an extra piece that doesn't need to be there |
| 17:16.59 | vanfanel64 | sney, just to be clear, what I want to do is prevent this particular card from mounting under /media/$USERNAME/whatever and mont it under /data instead, while any other card would mount normally as the former |
| 17:17.20 | sney | and .mount files need to be named with the path of the mount so if this is going under /data, it would just be data.mount |
| 17:18.04 | vanfanel64 | sney, yes, the /dev/datavol is what I originally was going to use for the fstab entry but change it to UUID there so I don't really need /dev/datavol, I just thought I could leave that to make it easier to find the device if I ever needed to. |
| 17:18.36 | vanfanel64 | sney, oh I didn't know it had to match, I thought it could be any filename.mount |
| 17:19.16 | sney | click on that freedesktop link and read it, it can explain this better than I can |
| 17:20.35 | vanfanel64 | yes I have it open, thank you |
| 17:21.19 | sney | and it may help to think of this as 2 separate tasks: 1) make udisks ignore this specific card, so the DE never tries to automount it and 2) mount the card automatically in a set location |
| 17:21.28 | sney | flipping between these two and combining them will only confuse the issue. |
| 17:22.48 | vanfanel64 | sney, yes this is what I want to do but I am quite fuzzy on how to properly make udisks ignore it, should I be using my ACTION=="add" rule with just ENV{UDISKS_IGNORE}="1" ? |
| 17:23.49 | *** join/#debian Onyx47_ (~onyx@109.60.99.58) |
| 17:24.37 | sney | that's uncharted territory for me too. just try stuff. #systemd may have ideas as well, or you might find the solution here: http://storaged.org/doc/udisks2-api/latest/ |
| 17:25.33 | *** join/#debian BataLoopPak (~bataloopp@unaffiliated/lucas-/x-9790181) |
| 17:26.25 | sney | actually, I wonder if you could configure udisks to do the whole thing for you |
| 17:26.46 | *** join/#debian Flukp (~Flukp@94.46.24.56) |
| 17:27.11 | vanfanel64 | That what I have been wondering but have not been able to find good information about doing it there |
| 17:28.03 | vanfanel64 | I wish there was something like ENV{UDISKS_MOUNT_POINT}="/data" and be done with it |
| 17:30.42 | *** join/#debian metbsd (~metbsd@unaffiliated/metbsd) |
| 17:30.51 | *** join/#debian plantroon (~plantroon@91.236.69.232) |
| 17:31.58 | *** join/#debian akp55_ (~akp55@c-73-148-15-31.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 17:36.43 | *** join/#debian ph4nt0m (~ph4nt0m@unaffiliated/ph4nt0m) |
| 17:37.09 | *** join/#debian Sarcutus (47723067@pool-71-114-48-103.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 17:38.04 | Sarcutus | Hello all. GParted is telling me there's no btrfs support. Is there a way for me to install btrfs support? |
| 17:38.54 | Sarcutus | Or am I stuck? |
| 17:39.52 | jelly | gparted means there's no support for btrfs in gparted itself. |
| 17:40.07 | jelly | you can still use normal btrfs tools to do btrfs things |
| 17:40.44 | *** join/#debian rnm (~rnm@unaffiliated/rnm) |
| 17:41.53 | jelly | Sarcutus, Debian seems to have btrfs support... /lib/modules/4.19.0-13-amd64/kernel/fs/btrfs/btrfs.ko |
| 17:42.08 | *** join/#debian tablerice (~tablerice@rrcs-71-41-50-122.se.biz.rr.com) |
| 17:42.34 | Sarcutus | jelly: I don't doubt it. I just read the wiki. But GParted is being petulant. |
| 17:43.25 | jelly | ,v gparted |
| 17:43.26 | judd | Package: gparted on amd64 -- jessie: 0.19.0-2; stretch: 0.25.0-1+b1; buster: 0.32.0-2; bullseye: 1.1.0-0.1; sid: 1.2.0-1 |
| 17:43.54 | jelly | it's possible a newer version of gparted might work better |
| 17:44.05 | jelly | but you'd have to build it yourself |
| 17:44.08 | sney | that's some version jump |
| 17:44.40 | serard | Hello. I have set my apt-cache-ng VM, I set another VM, it works but... slow.. |
| 17:44.50 | serard | the other VM use the first apt-cache-ng as proxy |
| 17:45.49 | Sarcutus | jelly: Having problems installing gparted. |
| 17:47.19 | sney | Sarcutus: sounds like you ignored [10:44:04] <jelly> but you'd have to build it yourself |
| 17:47.35 | sney | if you're trying to slap the bullseye package right into buster then yes, you will have "problems" |
| 17:48.04 | Sarcutus | Okay |
| 17:48.27 | jelly | Sarcutus, or perhaps it's just buggy. See if manually loading the "btrfs" kernel module and restarting gparted makes any difference |
| 17:49.10 | Sarcutus | Thanks. But you know what? I keep forgetting I'm running testing and need to go to OFTC. Mind meeting me there? |
| 17:49.20 | *** join/#debian mitrokov (~mitrokov@176.59.13.175) |
| 17:49.25 | Sarcutus | sney? |
| 17:50.35 | jelly | !debian-next |
| 17:50.35 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc |
| 17:51.21 | jelly | you're missing from that channel Sarcutus, and sney is there already |
| 17:51.31 | *** join/#debian micros (4936c2c1@c-73-54-194-193.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 17:51.32 | micros | Does anyone know of a service that can check a processes main thread liveliness (verify its not long term blocked)? I checked some suggestions from earlier but they arent quite the right thing. Like a heartbeat request/response, or a way to do this through the proc file system; or other method. Possibly, make a case why its not needed? |
| 17:58.35 | *** join/#debian Mister00X (quassel@gateway/vpn/mullvad/mister00x) |
| 17:58.49 | *** join/#debian alexandros_tab (~quassel@unaffiliated/alexandros-c/x-1684531) |
| 17:58.50 | *** join/#debian alexandros_c_ (~quassel@unaffiliated/alexandros-c/x-1684531) |
| 18:02.00 | *** join/#debian jsubl2 (~jim@184-155-78-197.cpe.sparklight.net) |
| 18:02.00 | *** join/#debian zutat (5d83ba1c@unaffiliated/zutat) |
| 18:04.30 | *** join/#debian ecsim (~echisim@dynamic-adsl-78-14-94-161.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 18:05.29 | *** join/#debian marcello1 (~marcello1@net-188-217-250-20.cust.vodafonedsl.it) |
| 18:06.23 | *** join/#debian well_laid_lawn (~Jean-luc@115.64.117.212) |
| 18:09.14 | \\Mr_C\\ | anyone know what this error is? Could not reg notif event ret=-22 ... it happens on this hp zbook g3 17 at bootup |
| 18:10.01 | *** join/#debian f-a (~f-a@151.34.203.88) |
| 18:10.03 | *** join/#debian polyphem (~p0lyph3m@2a02:810d:640:776c:76d7:55f6:f85b:c889) |
| 18:10.19 | *** join/#debian ph4nt0m (~ph4nt0m@unaffiliated/ph4nt0m) |
| 18:10.43 | sney | \\Mr_C\\: probably some hardware errata, are there any other messages preceeding it? |
| 18:10.54 | *** join/#debian mick_b64 (~mick_b64@198.144.154.15) |
| 18:11.18 | f-a | I would like to monitor my interner traffic, to see which program sends/receive the most |
| 18:11.21 | f-a | what can I use? |
| 18:11.52 | \\Mr_C\\ | just mei_wdt xxxxxxxxxxbunch of numbers herexxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx: Could not reg notif event ret=-22 |
| 18:12.50 | sney | \\Mr_C\\: yep, kernel watchdog stuff, probably some bios/efi funk. if your system works normally otherwise, consider yourself warned and don't worry about it. otherwise, see if your computer mfg has an update |
| 18:13.18 | \\Mr_C\\ | hehe, okay |
| 18:14.05 | sney | f-a: nethogs |
| 18:14.25 | f-a | thanks sney |
| 18:15.51 | *** join/#debian Ekis (~Ekis@cpe74da881c916d-cm30b7d4bb2eb0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 18:16.37 | *** join/#debian nt1036 (~nt1036@2603-8000-6f01-94b7-60b2-8f3f-2822-c7b1.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 18:17.33 | *** join/#debian BataLoopPak (~bataloopp@unaffiliated/lucas-/x-9790181) |
| 18:20.10 | *** join/#debian madage (~madage@gateway/tor-sasl/madage) |
| 18:21.20 | *** join/#debian cnsvc (~cnsvc@gateway/tor-sasl/cnsvc) |
| 18:21.29 | *** join/#debian Mister00X (~quassel@185.195.233.142) |
| 18:21.36 | *** join/#debian conta (Thunderbir@gateway/vpn/mullvad/conta) |
| 18:21.39 | *** join/#debian _shawn (~shawn@63.239.12.131) |
| 18:22.24 | _shawn | is there some way to configure apt to prevent pacakges from putting things in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ ? |
| 18:22.43 | _shawn | like for example Google chrome .deb does this |
| 18:23.14 | _shawn | I know for that one package I can empty out that file and make it immutable |
| 18:24.02 | greycat | Not really. A package has postinstall and other scripts that run as root and can do everything. |
| 18:25.27 | igrtrrt | Hi everybody, I'm trying to run the latest kernel LTX(5.10) compiled by myself, but I'm having a problem decrypting my LUKS partition after the boot |
| 18:25.35 | igrtrrt | This is the only kernel that does not accept my password :/ |
| 18:25.58 | igrtrrt | 'm following the kernel newbies tutorial(kernelnewbies.org/OutreachyfirstpatchSetup), but I have no idea what is possibly going wrong. |
| 18:26.06 | igrtrrt | I'm* |
| 18:26.13 | igrtrrt | Does Debian have anything special to setup the keyboard or the cryptsetup? |
| 18:29.02 | ratrace | the console-setup package |
| 18:29.19 | ratrace | how are you building and installing the kernel? |
| 18:29.34 | igrtrrt | Yes |
| 18:29.49 | igrtrrt | and the modules to |
| 18:29.56 | ratrace | _how_ |
| 18:30.59 | igrtrrt | after copying the .conf from /boot and compile the kernel+modules I send the cmd 'sudo make modules_install install' to install both |
| 18:31.12 | *** join/#debian gelignite (~gelignite@55d4d0d0.access.ecotel.net) |
| 18:31.18 | ratrace | igrtrrt: you missed the make oldconfig step? |
| 18:31.32 | ratrace | which kernel did you copy config from? |
| 18:32.00 | igrtrrt | config-4.19.0-14-amd64 |
| 18:32.14 | kline[FNODE] | is there an approximate release date for bullseye? |
| 18:32.21 | sney | !wir |
| 18:32.21 | dpkg | well, wir is When It's Ready. See also <rsn> and <siyh>. |
| 18:32.37 | kline[FNODE] | do we know approximately when itll be ready? |
| 18:32.44 | sney | going by the past 2 releases, *probably* Q3 2021 |
| 18:32.49 | ratrace | the simplest way is to unpack the tarball from kernel.org upstream somwehre, then copy the config from /boot; then run make oldconfig to set up and configure options for 5.10, then make [-j `nproc`]; then you can either do what you did to install into /boot directly, or you can use make bindeb-pkg |
| 18:32.50 | igrtrrt | > you missed the make oldconfig step? No, I just don't mentioned |
| 18:33.01 | bifunc2 | Hey guys, it seems it's possible to replace a Dell XPS 15 wifi card: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojOt0c7c4Jo |
| 18:33.02 | bifunc2 | He's putting an Intel 9260NGW wifi card in there. On the Intel site, they say "Linux drivers are part of the upstream Linux* kernel." (https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000005511/wireless.html) |
| 18:33.03 | bifunc2 | Does this mean that this WiFi card will "just work" with the *official* (free software only) Debian 10? |
| 18:33.20 | *** join/#debian paradizelost (~paradizel@184-83-75-180-dynamic.midco.net) |
| 18:33.29 | ratrace | igrtrrt: and naturally you re-ran update-initramfs and update grub? |
| 18:33.42 | kline[FNODE] | sney: thanks. a new machine has arrived so i guess ill have to install from buster media and then dist-upgrade it to bullseye |
| 18:33.48 | ratrace | igrtrrt: (before reboot) |
| 18:33.54 | kline[FNODE] | unless preview media is available already |
| 18:34.03 | sney | bifunc2: iwlwifi supports most intel wireless cards, though it does require firmware in most cases. the issue with replacing laptop wifi cards is usually that the laptop bios is locked to only accept a few specific models |
| 18:34.14 | igrtrrt | The update-grub happens automatically with the make modules_install install |
| 18:34.27 | *** part/#debian f-a (~f-a@151.34.203.88) |
| 18:34.30 | sney | kline[FNODE]: yes, the testing installer is available at debian.org/devel/debian-installer, the alpha3 works well IME but sometimes it can be iffy |
| 18:34.40 | *** join/#debian blurkis (~blurkis@host-95-203-54-96.mobileonline.telia.com) |
| 18:34.47 | *** join/#debian adapter (~adapter@c-71-227-128-126.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 18:34.47 | ratrace | igrtrrt: I'm not so sure |
| 18:34.49 | kline[FNODE] | thats perfect, thanks |
| 18:35.12 | ratrace | igrtrrt: you need to build the new 5.10 initramfs before grub config, so grub can pick it up for the menu entry |
| 18:35.12 | sney | np |
| 18:35.26 | igrtrrt | ratrace: The update-initramfs I tried afterwards but continue not working(accepting my password) |
| 18:35.42 | ratrace | igrtrrt: you need to re-run update grub after 5.10's initramfs is built |
| 18:35.55 | bifunc2 | sney, iwlwifi is not firmware too? |
| 18:36.05 | igrtrrt | Ok, I will try here, thanks |
| 18:36.07 | ratrace | igrtrrt: anyway ... first thing I'd suspect is keymap. without properly built initramfs, the keymap is not set up |
| 18:36.26 | sney | doesn't the kernel include a 'deb-pkg' target to generate a debian package and do all of the initramfs/grub stuff automatically on postinst? |
| 18:36.36 | *** join/#debian ax56234 (~NickServ@unaffiliated/ax56234) |
| 18:36.55 | ratrace | sney: the buildeb-pkg step I mentioned above, yes, but! it's missing dkms triggers |
| 18:37.04 | ratrace | * bindeb-pkg |
| 18:37.31 | *** join/#debian sevu (~sevu@x4dbf2ca1.dyn.telefonica.de) |
| 18:37.37 | *** join/#debian euandreh (~euandreh@2804:14c:33:8303:2d12:deee:c416:adee) |
| 18:37.54 | sney | bifunc2: iwlwifi is the kernel module, free software. but iwlwifi requires firmware, which are non-free closed binary files from intel. you specified "free software only" so I figured you were familiar with this distinction |
| 18:38.50 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f1bf000821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:38.56 | sney | ratrace: it's been a minute since I last built a kernel, but maybe the difference between bindeb-pkg and deb-pkg is the inclusion of a linux-headers package and dkms compatibility? |
| 18:38.58 | queip | Video card support was always a mess |
| 18:39.36 | ratrace | sney: no, bindeb builds the actual kernel packages only, deb-pkg builds the src pkg too and needs extra build deps |
| 18:39.36 | queip | how to check which method am I actually using now (like, pure open source, or non-free debian.org repository with less open drivers, or something else) |
| 18:39.51 | queip | for radeon. and how to check for nvidia |
| 18:39.56 | Mister00X | queip: vrms? |
| 18:40.30 | queip | I hope running this will not turn me homeless |
| 18:40.44 | Mister00X | it tells you at least if non-free software is installed |
| 18:41.23 | n4dir | well, if you never edited sources.list, then no non-free or contrib is installed. |
| 18:41.26 | n4dir | else vrms |
| 18:41.26 | Mister00X | but I dont think that it can tell you if its used |
| 18:41.51 | queip | firmware-linux-nonfree |
| 18:42.09 | Mister00X | n4dir: depends if queip was using the official or unofficial image |
| 18:42.13 | queip | firmware-amd-graphics |
| 18:42.22 | queip | this I have |
| 18:42.35 | queip | how to confirm which drivers are right now used in my X? |
| 18:42.43 | n4dir | lspci -k |
| 18:42.46 | queip | confirm from the side of quering X or something, not from testing packages |
| 18:43.04 | *** join/#debian d3sync (~d3sync@unaffiliated/d3sync) |
| 18:43.07 | ratrace | glxinfo | grep renderer |
| 18:43.18 | ratrace | (mesa-utils package) |
| 18:43.26 | queip | Kernel driver in use: amdgpu Kernel modules: amdgpu |
| 18:43.41 | bifunc2 | sney, i just learned about the clear software/firmware distinction today. but how clear is the distinction? |
| 18:43.42 | bifunc2 | Here is a concrete question: Is installing closed-source firmware on my laptop just as secure/insecure as purchasing wifi extender + usb<->ethernet adapter + ethernet cable (none of which require closed-source firmware)? |
| 18:43.43 | bifunc2 | The latter shifts closed-source firmware to external device (wifi extender). Is this worth it? My fear is basically, having closed-source firmware inside my computer feels more dangerous than having it outside my computer. My computer has all my data, after all. |
| 18:43.43 | bifunc2 | Are these fears unfounded? |
| 18:43.58 | ratrace | I don't think if follows with 100% certainty that loaded kernel modules mean Xorg will use them too |
| 18:44.13 | ratrace | to check what Xorg is actually using, is the glxinfo bit above, or look at Xorg.0.log |
| 18:44.24 | bifunc2 | s/require closed-source firmware/require closed-source firmware on my computer |
| 18:44.34 | ratrace | bifunc2: what's clear software? |
| 18:44.45 | *** join/#debian format_c (~format_c@unaffiliated/format-c/x-8927423) |
| 18:45.04 | greycat | clear distinction |
| 18:45.05 | bifunc2 | ratrace, sorry, i meant "clear distinction" |
| 18:45.53 | ratrace | meanwhile ... most firmware is closed or licensed non-libre. I wouldn't worry about that. If that bothers you, you should also pry out the IME chip but then you'll brick your computer :) |
| 18:46.23 | queip | OpenGL renderer string: Radeon RX 570 Series (POLARIS10, DRM 3.27.0, 4.19.0-14-amd64, LLVM 7.0.1) ; lspci: Kernel driver in use: amdgpu Kernel modules: amdgpu |
| 18:46.27 | ratrace | there's a whole Minix running in that tiny little IME chip... and you don't have a say in how it's running. |
| 18:46.27 | queip | so, what does this mean? |
| 18:47.06 | ratrace | I'm guessing that means it's not software renderer but amdgpu, used by Xorg |
| 18:47.08 | *** join/#debian ddsys (~ddsys@unaffiliated/ddsys) |
| 18:48.18 | ratrace | greycat: go to store for milk, and if they got eggs, buy 10. I'd come back with 10 milk cartons :) |
| 18:48.28 | queip | and "Amdgpu" has what staus re being open vs blob |
| 18:49.06 | *** join/#debian jaami (~jaami@111.119.187.41) |
| 18:49.13 | ratrace | firmware-amd-graphics is in non-free, so .... |
| 18:49.20 | queip | so? |
| 18:49.37 | ratrace | so it's not libre. whether it's "open" (you get to see the source) I don't know. |
| 18:49.44 | *** join/#debian twobitsp1ite (~isaac.fre@cpe-173-95-153-183.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 18:49.49 | *** join/#debian thiras_ (~thiras@unaffiliated/thiras) |
| 18:49.49 | queip | is it a blob? or is it verified code but licence limits how you can use it which is law problem not it problem |
| 18:49.50 | ratrace | I'm using the Libre vs. Open distinction that RMS defined, it makes sense. |
| 18:50.17 | ratrace | queip: blob vs verified code, that's false dichotomy |
| 18:50.21 | *** join/#debian blurkis (~blurkis@host-95-203-54-96.mobileonline.telia.com) |
| 18:50.30 | *** join/#debian paradizelost1 (~paradizel@184-83-75-180-dynamic.midco.net) |
| 18:50.36 | ratrace | Also.... if Heartbleed taught us anything, it's that "all bugs are shallow in open source" is a lie. |
| 18:50.43 | queip | one of reason to avoid blobs is to have code easier to verify |
| 18:50.47 | queip | easier doesn't mean it is always safe |
| 18:50.56 | ratrace | verify by whom? |
| 18:51.11 | queip | by more people than just the author(s) of it |
| 18:51.52 | ratrace | don't forget that the open source amdgpu drivre is written by those same people |
| 18:52.05 | *** join/#debian CrypticS_ (~CrypticS_@unaffiliated/crypticsquared) |
| 18:52.09 | *** join/#debian lead_pipe23 (~Lead@38.146.84.50) |
| 18:52.09 | ratrace | so same people "verify" the open (libre) part and the non-libre part of the code. |
| 18:52.18 | queip | yeah so I wonder if other people besides them are able to check their work (easier than reverse engeneering it) |
| 18:52.32 | ratrace | you'd have to be helluva kernel and GPU microarchitecture expert, in order to "verify" that code. it's not like they're readily available for code audit on a request |
| 18:52.33 | *** join/#debian banym (~banym@unaffiliated/banym) |
| 18:52.36 | *** join/#debian grummund (~unknown@unaffiliated/grummund) |
| 18:52.37 | *** join/#debian citral23 (~citral@astrasbourg-256-1-15-30.w92-161.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 18:52.40 | *** join/#debian w-oertl (~wolfgang@cm56-194-159.liwest.at) |
| 18:52.53 | ratrace | so trusting the handful of people from group A or group B, same thing, since vast majority of us can't tell the difference. |
| 18:53.11 | queip | sometimes independenten research happens, easier for it to happen where source is available |
| 18:53.17 | *** join/#debian Posterdati (~posterdat@host-79-37-129-8.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 18:53.33 | ratrace | I wouldn't have any meaningful way to trust one group or the other, or one over the other. |
| 18:53.33 | *** join/#debian diogenes_ (~diogenes_@188.208.123.84) |
| 18:53.47 | queip | 2 groups are better than 1 |
| 18:54.16 | queip | independent research can only help. sometimes it does |
| 18:54.30 | n4dir | first question probably is: what do you expect might happen to you |
| 18:54.52 | ratrace | package info says that firmware-amd-graphics is "binary firmware" so I'm guessing nobody but AMD folks verified it |
| 18:55.18 | *** part/#debian plasticbox (~plasticbo@2607:fb90:17c2:87bb:d771:d044:33a0:28b2) |
| 18:56.01 | ratrace | "2 groups are better than 1" .. in theory. in practice, Heartbleed taught as that even 20 groups weren't enought... |
| 18:58.22 | ratrace | and the exeperts are usually disconnected from the reality ousside of their expert bubble. |
| 18:59.52 | *** join/#debian jaami (~jaami@111.119.187.41) |
| 19:00.32 | *** join/#debian \\Mr_C\\ (~mrc@cpe-75-187-191-230.neo.res.rr.com) |
| 19:01.23 | *** join/#debian zutat (5d83ba1c@unaffiliated/zutat) |
| 19:02.46 | *** join/#debian dreamon (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) |
| 19:02.53 | *** join/#debian tablerice (~tablerice@rrcs-71-41-50-122.se.biz.rr.com) |
| 19:12.36 | *** join/#debian nolan-___ (~nolan_@unaffiliated/nolan/x-3943829) |
| 19:14.45 | *** join/#debian D4rk4ngel2020 (~darkangel@milik.frozenstar.info) |
| 19:17.09 | *** join/#debian czesmir (~stefan@aeev190.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 19:20.57 | *** join/#debian Zblakany (~Zblakany@host-188-122-1-230.finemedia.pl) |
| 19:21.20 | *** join/#debian nolan-___ (~nolan_@unaffiliated/nolan/x-3943829) |
| 19:27.46 | *** join/#debian beelzebuzz (~rasputin@gateway/tor-sasl/beelzebuzz) |
| 19:28.24 | *** join/#debian skep (~thoth@2402:3a80:1f84:543d:49a4:ed28:3a21:4b4e) |
| 19:31.55 | *** join/#debian Lope (~lope@102.132.252.46) |
| 19:32.18 | Lope | if I want to make a readonly rootfs, what's a quick and easy way to do that? |
| 19:32.20 | skep | can I install #debian in android |
| 19:32.40 | *** join/#debian eqw (~eqw@31.134.178.99) |
| 19:32.43 | Lope | can I do a normal installation on ext4 and then somehow put overlayfs on top (I have no idea how overlayfs works, etc) |
| 19:33.15 | Lope | or does perhaps btrfs or whatever fancy fs have a readonly mode? |
| 19:34.07 | Lope | basically I want a filesystem where I must intentionally write the rootfs state to disk, otherwise it's read-only and won't be corrupted by power failures |
| 19:37.37 | n4dir | skep: if that was a question you can do stuff like chroot. Here are some info, but when i did such years ago there were better how-to's https://wiki.debian.org/ChrootOnAndroid |
| 19:41.19 | skep | from chroot |
| 19:41.35 | skep | I just fedup from android os |
| 19:41.47 | skep | need something new to my mobile |
| 19:41.49 | *** join/#debian eliotome3000 (~eliotime@190.42.86.45) |
| 19:42.42 | n4dir | i don't follow it closely, but i don't think there is a good alternative for phones right now |
| 19:45.15 | *** join/#debian store_scarecrow0 (~Andrew_00@host-74.91.78.101.bpsnetworks.com) |
| 19:46.39 | *** join/#debian Antoine| (~Antoine@unaffiliated/airnf) |
| 19:49.13 | *** join/#debian mguy (~robert@149.28.120.183) |
| 19:53.31 | *** join/#debian ikus060 (~ikus060@173-246-15-25.qc.cable.ebox.net) |
| 19:53.51 | *** join/#debian D4rk4ngel2020 (~darkangel@milik.frozenstar.info) |
| 19:54.32 | *** join/#debian plutes (~plutes@unaffiliated/plutes) |
| 19:54.35 | *** join/#debian catt (~r@31.124.181.226) |
| 19:55.46 | *** join/#debian plutes (~plutes@unaffiliated/plutes) |
| 19:56.41 | *** join/#debian Slashman (~Slash@cosium-fo-152-18.fib.nerim.net) |
| 19:57.39 | *** join/#debian diniwed (~gavron@ool-44c21938.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 20:00.09 | *** join/#debian vincent--- (~vincent-@unaffiliated/vincent-) |
| 20:00.11 | *** join/#debian DaNeenjah (~DaNeenjah@2600:1005:b154:5dd1:f21e:700e:f3a:cda4) |
| 20:00.29 | *** join/#debian s-h-i-n-o-b-i (~quassel@104.244.75.124) |
| 20:08.51 | Lope | ratrace, are you around bro? |
| 20:10.03 | *** join/#debian rebrec84 (~rebrec@82-64-53-213.subs.proxad.net) |
| 20:10.10 | Lope | I've automated my installs in their face. The only thing that's a wildcard still is I'm currently not telling the kernel to make eth's named eth0 eth1 etc. So ethernet adapter names is something I can't really make "just work" it going to require manual configuration. |
| 20:10.53 | Lope | Even if I did have a predictable ethernet interface name, I would have the problem of NetworkManager things using UUID's etc and I've got no clue how that works. |
| 20:13.49 | *** join/#debian ddsys (~ddsys@unaffiliated/ddsys) |
| 20:13.57 | *** join/#debian stefanc_diff (~stefanc_d@cpc97950-croy24-2-0-cust78.19-2.cable.virginm.net) |
| 20:20.55 | *** join/#debian Hokedli (~laslie@gateway/tor-sasl/lasliedv) |
| 20:21.06 | *** join/#debian nickname123 (~nickname1@adsl-84-227-66-181.adslplus.ch) |
| 20:22.56 | *** join/#debian kfvn (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/kh4ydn) |
| 20:25.59 | *** join/#debian _till_ (~till@unaffiliated/till/x-7804721) |
| 20:28.10 | *** join/#debian short-bike (~short-bik@centos/community/short-bike) |
| 20:29.56 | *** join/#debian Mister00X (quassel@gateway/vpn/mullvad/mister00x) |
| 20:31.09 | *** join/#debian secntech (~secntech@unaffiliated/secntech) |
| 20:34.37 | *** join/#debian tablerice (~tablerice@rrcs-71-41-50-122.se.biz.rr.com) |
| 20:38.58 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f1bf000821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:39.43 | *** join/#debian D4rk4ngel2020 (~darkangel@milik.frozenstar.info) |
| 20:41.08 | *** join/#debian igrtrrt (~igrtrrt@189.120.76.30) |
| 20:46.15 | ratrace | Lope: why tho. just net.ifnames=0 in grub's config, and use networkd or ifupdown.... why networkmanager, that's.... just..... ewwww |
| 20:49.03 | *** join/#debian Texou (~Texou@unaffiliated/texou) |
| 20:50.49 | *** join/#debian trysten (~user@unaffiliated/trysten) |
| 20:51.00 | *** join/#debian d1cor (~d1cor@unaffiliated/d1cor) |
| 20:51.43 | *** join/#debian igrtrrt (~igrtrrt@189.120.76.30) |
| 20:52.52 | *** join/#debian ikus060 (~ikus060@173-246-15-25.qc.cable.ebox.net) |
| 20:55.31 | *** join/#debian TReK (~UnFaQ@unaffiliated/trek) |
| 20:59.48 | *** join/#debian lowin_ (~lowin@unaffiliated/lowin) |
| 21:00.30 | *** join/#debian oxek (oxek@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/oxek) |
| 21:00.51 | *** join/#debian Mister00X (quassel@gateway/vpn/mullvad/mister00x) |
| 21:01.01 | Lope | ratrace, hey bud, the reason I use NetworkManager on a desktop is I find it's more reliable than /etc/network/interfaces |
| 21:01.12 | *** join/#debian ikus060 (~ikus060@173-246-15-25.qc.cable.ebox.net) |
| 21:01.19 | ratrace | Lope: for wired? that can't be right |
| 21:01.25 | Lope | ratrace, I found with /etc/network/interfaces sometimes my physical interface and bridge didn't come up |
| 21:01.28 | Lope | and I'd have to reboot |
| 21:01.35 | Lope | with NetworkManager it just works |
| 21:01.55 | ratrace | Lope: tried systemd-networkd? it's dead easy to set up |
| 21:01.58 | Lope | But I dislike the fiddlyness of NetworkManager |
| 21:02.00 | sney | n-m is smarter about hotplugging, if you don't always have the ethernet cable connected, or do a lot of suspend/wakeup |
| 21:02.33 | Lope | ratrace, I haven't tried systemd-networkd, I imagine it's more reliable than /etc/network/interfaces? |
| 21:02.57 | ratrace | it's a native systemd tool |
| 21:03.14 | ratrace | I use it on all the servers |
| 21:03.22 | Lope | I've got a bunch of virtual bridges setup with /etc/network/interfaces... if I configure my bridge that my physical NIC is on with systemd-networkd can I still have my other bridges with /etc/network/interfaces ? |
| 21:03.42 | ratrace | but that's static network config, some with bridges, and the nics don't go up or down except on reboots |
| 21:03.52 | Lope | ratrace, does net.ifnames=0 apply in initramfs? |
| 21:04.02 | ratrace | it's a kernel command line option |
| 21:04.04 | jhutchins | Lope: Let's see, NM has been around for maybe five years. interfaces has been around for ~30. |
| 21:04.13 | ratrace | Lope: so you set it via /etc/default/grub |
| 21:04.13 | Lope | ratrace, if I do net.ifnames=0 can I still use udev to rename an interface based on it's MAC? |
| 21:04.27 | greycat | NM is that young? I wouldn't have thought so. |
| 21:04.43 | Lope | jhutchins, do you have a point? |
| 21:04.44 | ratrace | Lope: yes. you can use udev, interfaces, systemd-networkd |
| 21:04.46 | greycat | Lope: udev interface renaming is not supported in buster |
| 21:05.00 | greycat | it might *work* but it's deprecated |
| 21:05.24 | greycat | wikipedia says the initial release of NM was 16 years ago |
| 21:05.27 | ratrace | I think NM is way older than that. 5 years would put it in 2015? nowai it's that young |
| 21:05.46 | ratrace | 16 sounds more like it. I remember it on OpenSuse 10.3 and that was .... 2006-2007 |
| 21:06.03 | *** join/#debian d1cor (~d1cor@unaffiliated/d1cor) |
| 21:06.16 | jhutchins | Lope: interfaces is proven and reliable and well debuged. NM is pretty new. The first shot at better mobility was Wicd, but these days NM works a lot better. |
| 21:06.26 | Lope | ratrace, yes, I'm aware that net.ifnames=0 is set with grub. Just wondering if it takes effect in initramfs? I'm not quite clear on how much "soft rebooting" happens after initramfs hands over to the rootfs? |
| 21:06.39 | *** join/#debian guerby (~guerby@april/board/guerby) |
| 21:06.45 | greycat | https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#migrate-interface-names |
| 21:07.11 | *** join/#debian lowin (~lowin@unaffiliated/lowin) |
| 21:07.13 | sney | this seems to be the first time it migrated to testing, if 2009 is "pretty new" then I want your time travel secrets, jhutchins https://tracker.debian.org/news/509266/network-manager-066-3-migrated-to-testing/ |
| 21:07.24 | ratrace | Lope: it takes effect whenever udev looks at it for device renaming... so initramfs I suppose due to /dev being needed there and udev doing its work |
| 21:07.50 | Lope | greycat, I've never used net.ifnames=0 but I've used network interface renaming in jessie buster stretch, bullseye etc without issues. |
| 21:08.24 | ratrace | "interfaces", which is to say the ifupdown framework, should be pretty sturdy and debugged by now. but I prefer systemd-networkd because it's better documented and less arcane with configs and also native |
| 21:08.55 | ratrace | Lope: mind you, you can rename interfaces even without net.ifnames=0; with networkd that's based on device Match, which could be MAC based. |
| 21:09.36 | Lope | ratrace, interesting, do you think if I put udev in my initramfs I can rename the ifaces in there? |
| 21:09.44 | Lope | just curious about that |
| 21:09.53 | Lope | Because if I've got multiple nics then isn't net.ifnames=0 a race? |
| 21:10.47 | ratrace | Lope: well there's that possibility of bios flakking things up and eth0 and eth1 and eth2 kinda swap places. that's why binding names to MACs is recommended. |
| 21:11.19 | CrystalMath | now people are attacking /etc/network/interfaces? |
| 21:11.30 | ratrace | you can't even rely on systemd's "predictable" naming as that's anything BUT predictable. MAC binding is the best you can do. Predictable, stable, unless MAC changes but then again.... a meteor could strike your machine too.... |
| 21:11.31 | CrystalMath | well no matter, i'll soon be out of this hell thanks to my new slackware install |
| 21:11.43 | CrystalMath | then debian cannot hurt me and my 1993 lifestyle anymore |
| 21:12.23 | *** join/#debian d1cor (~d1cor@unaffiliated/d1cor) |
| 21:12.31 | *** join/#debian eventhorizon5 (~smuxi@c-98-228-26-70.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 21:12.53 | Lope | ratrace, naming interfaces by mac, that basically means you rename the network interface, which is something I've always done on all my machines. |
| 21:12.59 | ratrace | slackware is so posh. real haxx0rs run them BSDs. OpenBSD, preferably, that's where the most hate for computing resides. |
| 21:13.12 | Lope | But I've never done it inside initramfs |
| 21:13.14 | CrystalMath | ratrace: hate for computing? |
| 21:13.20 | CrystalMath | i only hate modern computing |
| 21:13.21 | Lope | I imagine if I put udev it would work |
| 21:13.23 | CrystalMath | old computing is great |
| 21:13.23 | *** join/#debian waxfire (~waxfire@152.89.209.134) |
| 21:13.38 | ratrace | CrystalMath: yes. they hate VMs, too insecure. they hate jails, insecure. namespaces, insecure. MAC frameworks, too much work. |
| 21:13.58 | ratrace | recently they hate SMT and .... soon they'll start hating SMP and go back to single core computing. |
| 21:14.09 | ratrace | and then the hate for x86 will be too much and they'll all transcend to devnull. |
| 21:14.26 | CrystalMath | SMT? |
| 21:14.30 | Lope | They can just buy risc-v |
| 21:14.53 | ratrace | Lope: you just set net.ifnames=0 on the grub command line. that results with renames in initramfs. I'm sure of it because all my servers need dropbear wtih networking inside initramfs |
| 21:15.00 | *** join/#debian BrianG61UK_ (~BrianG61U@2a02:8010:66b7:dddd:f457:4513:e197:238c) |
| 21:15.03 | ratrace | CrystalMath: the real name for Hyperthreading. |
| 21:15.08 | CrystalMath | ah |
| 21:15.15 | CrystalMath | probably an intel thing |
| 21:15.18 | CrystalMath | i hate intel :D |
| 21:15.18 | *** part/#debian diogenes_ (~diogenes_@188.208.123.84) |
| 21:15.23 | ratrace | HT is Intel (tm)(r)(patent pending) naming. |
| 21:15.42 | *** join/#debian metbsd (~metbsd@unaffiliated/metbsd) |
| 21:15.44 | Lope | ratrace, cool. I thought so. It seems like net.ifnames=0 is cool if you have 1 NIC, but if you have multiple NICs it seems like a bad idea. |
| 21:15.46 | ratrace | SMT is platform agnostic name for that. |
| 21:15.52 | CrystalMath | ratrace: honestly one day i'm just gonna buy a 486 PC and use that |
| 21:16.00 | ratrace | Lope: then you bind the name with MAC addr |
| 21:16.06 | CrystalMath | because i'll just finally think to myself... why not LIVE the dream |
| 21:16.18 | Lope | ratrace, if you're going to rename a network interface, why bother with net.ifnames=0 ? |
| 21:16.24 | ratrace | CrystalMath: that's too posh as well. 386 is before them fancy opcodes that started with 486 |
| 21:16.38 | ratrace | 286 if you hate all this 32-bit carp. |
| 21:16.53 | ratrace | Lope: true that. |
| 21:16.54 | *** join/#debian bru (~bru@181.31.90.169) |
| 21:17.02 | CrystalMath | 8086 because who needs to push immediate values |
| 21:17.23 | CrystalMath | and barrel shifters are overrated |
| 21:17.33 | ratrace | still too posh. <3 ATARI ST 1040F and that was .... uhh... RISC? Motorola CPU? single digit MHz? Yes. |
| 21:17.41 | CrystalMath | 6052 |
| 21:17.46 | ratrace | 6052! |
| 21:17.55 | CrystalMath | who needs more than 3 registers |
| 21:18.01 | CrystalMath | A, X, and Y |
| 21:18.10 | CrystalMath | and you never get them mixed up |
| 21:18.48 | ratrace | PDP11 and all the "BRA"s for nerd giggles. |
| 21:18.53 | *** join/#debian enkh (~enkh@cpe-67-241-190-150.buffalo.res.rr.com) |
| 21:19.27 | Lope | ratrace, I've arrived at a solution. I'll setup /etc/network/interfaces initially for installs. And if it becomes problematic I'll switch the bridge with the physical NIC to NetworkManager. |
| 21:19.38 | Lope | That way my new installs will "work" |
| 21:20.02 | Lope | Better than a new install without network access |
| 21:20.18 | greycat | Atari ST used the 68000 |
| 21:20.26 | ratrace | if I were you, I'd investigate why ifupdown has trouble with them bridges. that's not.... normal at all. |
| 21:20.30 | greycat | The Atari 8-bit line used the 6502. |
| 21:20.36 | Lope | my problems with /etc/network/interfaces are likely RealCrap related. |
| 21:20.57 | Lope | generally all my network woes have been Realtek related. |
| 21:21.15 | *** join/#debian BrianG61UK_ (~BrianG61U@2a02:8010:66b7:dddd:8d29:1d25:c765:cca9) |
| 21:21.25 | Lope | but I've come across some workarounds that should in theory make Realcrap more stable/reliable. |
| 21:21.33 | ratrace | btw how did you try setting up a bridge with interfaces? the "old", deprecated way is with brctl iirc. the "new" (for some years now) is iproute based |
| 21:21.44 | CrystalMath | ratrace: but on a more serious note i'm gonna go to slackware and later in life maybe NetBSD :) |
| 21:21.52 | CrystalMath | or maybe dual boot slackware and NetBSD, why not |
| 21:22.11 | CrystalMath | i'm more for living in 1993 specifically |
| 21:22.18 | ratrace | NetBSD is still better than computing-hating knee-jerk-I-got-kicked-out-of-netbsd-so-i-forked-openbsd openbsd. |
| 21:22.31 | CrystalMath | yeah i know, there's a lot of GPL hate there too |
| 21:22.34 | CrystalMath | which is sad |
| 21:22.38 | Lope | ratrace, interesting. I always use brctl when doing manual shenanigans. but 99.9999% of the time my bridges are defined with /etc/network/interfaces for servers and NetworkManager for laptops and Desktops that have Realcrap NICs |
| 21:23.33 | ratrace | my realcrap nics does bridges just fine with interfaces. firmware loaded. r8169 tho. iirc you ahd some abomination that required out of tree DKMs? |
| 21:23.46 | Lope | Whereas NetworkManager seems to be more of a bullshit compatible software. |
| 21:24.47 | Lope | I accidentally overwrote what I typed. I was saying that interfaces seems to say "aah, realcrap, fuck this, I tried a few times, good night" |
| 21:25.06 | ratrace | it's dbus friendly tho. reason RedHat adores it and NM is now de-facto way to manage networks on RHEL servers |
| 21:25.32 | jhutchins | NM on servers. That's nuts. |
| 21:25.42 | ratrace | heh yeah |
| 21:25.47 | Lope | haha I've got one Ryzen 3600 with a Realcrap that won't work at all with r8169, needs 8168dkms to work at all. |
| 21:25.59 | jhutchins | That's like dhcp for servers. |
| 21:26.41 | Lope | I wouldn't be afraid of NetworkManager for servers. In my experience it's extremely reliable. |
| 21:26.41 | ratrace | worse, like avahi-based network setup for servers...... speaking of.... digital ocean sets up the droplets using avahi. NoJoke. TrueStory. almost had a heart attack when I saw that. |
| 21:26.48 | Lope | It's bullshit hardware tolerant. |
| 21:27.06 | Lope | But I avoid bloat by default. |
| 21:27.23 | Lope | NetworkManager is bloat for sure. You have to justify bloat. |
| 21:27.57 | *** join/#debian tsal (~tsal@i59F5220C.versanet.de) |
| 21:28.16 | Lope | How can I make a read only rootfs? |
| 21:28.30 | Lope | is there a way to activate overlayfs ontop of ext4 somehow? |
| 21:28.47 | ratrace | I never toyed with overlayfs |
| 21:28.58 | Lope | What's the quickest/easiest way to do a read only fs that's read only but I can push state thru to disk when i want? |
| 21:29.13 | Lope | I want to make something for my computer that's not on a UPS. |
| 21:29.31 | Lope | Already lost it's zpool once. |
| 21:29.43 | *** join/#debian uxf_ (~uxfi@unaffiliated/uxfi) |
| 21:31.55 | CrystalMath | ratrace: really i just want things to be traditional, no systemd, no modern stuff |
| 21:32.12 | CrystalMath | just me, X.org, fvwm, ksh93, perl, etc :) |
| 21:33.36 | ratrace | xorg's too fancy. Xfree86 ftw. |
| 21:34.06 | CrystalMath | perhaps |
| 21:34.07 | Lope | I tried to install XP on a pentium 133 once. I couldn't believe that I ever used to use one as a daily driver. Let alone a 486. |
| 21:34.15 | CrystalMath | i mean i don't need stuff like acceleration |
| 21:34.19 | CrystalMath | it doesn't work anyway |
| 21:34.28 | Lope | We're talking, a good 15+ years ago. |
| 21:34.30 | CrystalMath | XP is super heavy |
| 21:34.44 | CrystalMath | 15+ years ago i had a Pentium III |
| 21:34.47 | CrystalMath | with like 800 MHz |
| 21:34.55 | Lope | I also had a 1ghz kind of thing. |
| 21:35.01 | CrystalMath | well actually, it was a Pentium III equivalent |
| 21:35.06 | CrystalMath | AMD K6 i think |
| 21:35.06 | Lope | Athlon and Duron |
| 21:35.15 | CrystalMath | it wasn't Intel |
| 21:36.17 | Lope | But I thought the Pentium would be cool as a second computer. I actually tried a beowulf for fun. But they were so unusably slow. Booting windows took forever. Then just playing an mp3 was barely doable and basically used almost the whole CPU hahahaha. |
| 21:36.29 | Lope | So I e-wasted them. |
| 21:36.35 | CrystalMath | :( |
| 21:36.40 | CrystalMath | they're good if you boot good software |
| 21:36.44 | CrystalMath | instead of crap like windows |
| 21:36.49 | CrystalMath | i'm sure slackware would work |
| 21:36.51 | CrystalMath | with a custom kernel |
| 21:36.57 | Lope | yeah, I wasn't into linux back then unfortunately. Lost. |
| 21:36.58 | CrystalMath | specifically tuned for that CPU |
| 21:37.14 | CrystalMath | i used Windows 98SE |
| 21:37.15 | CrystalMath | still in 205 |
| 21:37.17 | CrystalMath | *2005 |
| 21:37.29 | CrystalMath | but i also had an XP machine |
| 21:37.35 | CrystalMath | that machine still works |
| 21:37.40 | CrystalMath | with its original disk no less! |
| 21:37.44 | Lope | I still used to run win 95 or 98 for a NAT server when XP was my daily driver. |
| 21:37.45 | *** join/#debian MrBuck (~Mrbuck@gateway/tor-sasl/mrbuck) |
| 21:38.00 | CrystalMath | i just realized that disk has been running for like |
| 21:38.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1200] by debhelper |
| 21:38.03 | CrystalMath | 15 years straight |
| 21:38.09 | Lope | When modems were a thing and NAT was like an ultra cool hack. and almost NOBODY on earth had a ROUTER. |
| 21:38.12 | phogg | Performance XP on a 133MHz isn't much different from Win10 on low end boxen today, if you take in to account how much background garbage is running. |
| 21:38.19 | CrystalMath | and yeah it has some issues but it still works ?_? |
| 21:38.33 | CrystalMath | phogg: it can probably be tuned really |
| 21:38.41 | CrystalMath | you can get rid of a lot of XP stuff |
| 21:38.55 | Lope | phogg, tru dat. |
| 21:39.21 | Lope | It amazes me how deep windows users will take it. |
| 21:39.51 | phogg | In ~2000 I set up a Linux box with pppd dial-on-network-activity + NAT for the LAN and my family stopped fighting over who got to use the internet. |
| 21:39.53 | Lope | They need a 5ghz CPU to feel like their PC is responsive. |
| 21:40.34 | *** join/#debian zyweo (~tt@unaffiliated/zyweo) |
| 21:41.23 | Lope | I got a redhat CD and installed linux before the year 2000. But unfortunately I had no idea what to do with linux or how it worked etc. I just typed ls and cd etc. startx etc but that was all I really figured out. |
| 21:41.42 | Lope | I had no access to community or documentation that I was aware of etc. |
| 21:41.50 | CrystalMath | phogg: those were the good old days :) |
| 21:42.09 | Lope | Then that hard drive crashed. One of the biggest mistakes of my life was not learning Linux back then. |
| 21:42.11 | CrystalMath | gosh, what i wouldn't give to be young again |
| 21:42.26 | Lope | I wasted like 15~20 years on windows. |
| 21:42.30 | Lope | So sad. |
| 21:42.41 | Lope | Thought I was a "power user" |
| 21:43.04 | CrystalMath | i'd just like to rewind time to 1970 |
| 21:43.09 | phogg | Lope: You probably were. I was, but a Windows power user is not a high bar. |
| 21:43.51 | Lope | I hear the term "Windows power user" and it conjures up images of flaccidity. |
| 21:44.08 | Lope | it's pretty much an oxymoron |
| 21:45.13 | Lope | "I know how to click stuff and change a few registry keys! hooray for me. I can control the windows noob OS so that it's slightly customized! I changed settings bro! And a few hidden settings! 1337! |
| 21:46.14 | Lope | Speaking of read only, did you ever try XP with EWF? Enhanced write filter. I thought I was so 1337 with that. |
| 21:46.47 | phogg | I don't know what that is. The farthest I got in customization was shell replacement and theming. |
| 21:47.38 | phogg | I tried all of the alternate shells, but mostly used LiteStep. In some ways AfterStep was a downgrade from that. It was certainly more work. |
| 21:48.24 | *** join/#debian coot (~coot@37.30.55.141.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) |
| 21:49.20 | *** join/#debian coot (~coot@37.30.55.141.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) |
| 21:51.16 | *** join/#debian mick_b64 (~mick_b64@198.144.154.15) |
| 21:52.59 | *** join/#debian f4ulty0ne (~f4ulty0ne@47.201.19.37) |
| 21:59.05 | *** join/#debian dvs (~hibbard@cwv.teksavvy.com) |
| 22:02.22 | *** join/#debian is0ke3 (~is0ke3@unaffiliated/isokee) |
| 22:02.55 | *** join/#debian dastier (~dastier@178.172.192.75) |
| 22:03.18 | ASDX | are people seeing the patched sudo package on their debian 10 systems if they run an 'apt get' with the security repo enabled? |
| 22:03.54 | greycat | yes |
| 22:03.59 | sney | yes, as of several days ago |
| 22:04.08 | greycat | make sure you've done "apt update" |
| 22:04.35 | f4ulty0ne | my OCD told plainly to you all: apt update && apt upgrade && apt dist-upgrade |
| 22:04.41 | f4ulty0ne | pathetic :/ |
| 22:04.42 | f4ulty0ne | lmao |
| 22:04.55 | f4ulty0ne | brainlock :P |
| 22:05.29 | sney | blindly dist-upgrading every time is not a debian best practice, but I guess as long as you don't -y |
| 22:07.03 | f4ulty0ne | I know |
| 22:07.06 | f4ulty0ne | I'm very sick :/ |
| 22:07.08 | f4ulty0ne | lol |
| 22:07.23 | f4ulty0ne | wait, -y is my favorite modifier. |
| 22:07.25 | f4ulty0ne | jk :P |
| 22:08.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1194] by debhelper |
| 22:09.04 | ASDX | thanks all |
| 22:09.09 | *** join/#debian kupi (uid212005@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pyrfhfaitkpiyesc) |
| 22:09.41 | ASDX | sney: yeh, was trying to only update the sudo package for now |
| 22:10.59 | greycat | then use "apt install sudo" |
| 22:11.24 | *** join/#debian tgunr (admin@dsl-dhcp-conrtxxahre-72-26-30-241.consolidated.net) |
| 22:12.25 | *** join/#debian bliminse_ivan12 (~Ivan@gateway/tor-sasl/bliminseivan12/x-70753866) |
| 22:25.20 | *** join/#debian megoix (~megoix@219.92-221-176.customer.lyse.net) |
| 22:28.36 | *** join/#debian godane (~godane4@154.16.166.81) |
| 22:32.49 | *** join/#debian Hokedli (~laslie@gateway/tor-sasl/lasliedv) |
| 22:33.30 | ASDX | i'm only seeing an unpatched version of 1.8.27-1+deb10u3 Debian-Security:10/stable when i do a dry run upgrade? |
| 22:35.53 | sney | 1.8.27-1+deb10u3 is the patched version |
| 22:36.04 | *** join/#debian Hokedli (~laslie@gateway/tor-sasl/lasliedv) |
| 22:36.18 | sney | https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2021-3156 |
| 22:37.39 | ASDX | ahh great. i was stupidly going off https://www.sudo.ws/download.html#binary |
| 22:40.12 | sney | backporting security patches to the stable package version is one of debian's standard procedures, when comparing versions make sure to look at the extra strings like '-1+deb10u3', they're not just a decoration :) |
| 22:42.31 | *** join/#debian laslie (~laslie@gateway/tor-sasl/lasliedv) |
| 22:45.44 | *** join/#debian f4ulty (~mrf4ulty@47.201.19.37) |
| 22:46.04 | *** join/#debian m0wgly (~m0wgly@bras-base-toroon1016w-grc-39-76-64-216-6.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:46.13 | *** join/#debian ax5623 (~ax562@unaffiliated/ax562) |
| 22:48.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1188] by debhelper |
| 22:50.20 | *** join/#debian thebe111 (~thebe111@gateway/tor-sasl/thebe111) |
| 22:51.01 | *** join/#debian Hokedli (~laslie@gateway/tor-sasl/lasliedv) |
| 22:54.50 | *** join/#debian Adbray (~Adbray@2600:6c48:6f7f:d764:e1ee:4c28:c730:a8c8) |
| 22:55.28 | *** join/#debian Zblakany (~Zblakany@host-188-122-1-230.finemedia.pl) |
| 22:59.44 | *** join/#debian format_c (~format_c@unaffiliated/format-c/x-8927423) |
| 23:03.17 | *** join/#debian MrHatter123 (~Mr.Hatter@203.217.21.161) |
| 23:03.20 | karlpinc | !security backports |
| 23:03.21 | dpkg | Debian incorporates security fixes into the version currently in <stable>. This is non-trivial so it may take a couple days. Backporting security fixes means that you can update the package without problems like changed behaviour that would come with updating to a new version of the software. The upstream version number doesn't change in the Debian package when this is done; check the changelog or the <tracker of doom>. |
| 23:04.30 | MrHatter123 | I have just done a fresh debian 10 install, with RAID1 mdadm, trying to install grub on the 2nd disk with : grub-install /dev/sdb, getting this error : /usr/sbin/grub-install: error: disk `md0' not found. |
| 23:04.51 | MrHatter123 | This is a process I have been doing for the last decade |
| 23:05.10 | *** join/#debian banox (~banox@45.12.223.92) |
| 23:06.28 | MrHatter123 | could grub-install not be able to find mdadm now since buster ? |
| 23:09.12 | *** join/#debian Zblakany (~Zblakany@host-188-122-1-230.finemedia.pl) |
| 23:12.31 | *** join/#debian frgo (~frgo@p200300deef081300b8095a7ed81fc869.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:15.05 | *** join/#debian Newami (~Newami@ip70-179-45-125.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 23:15.23 | MrHatter123 | OK, the answer now for Buster is : sudo grub-install /dev/sdb |
| 23:17.32 | ratrace | MrHatter123: eh? nothing changed there for buster |
| 23:17.37 | ratrace | you always had to be root for that |
| 23:17.47 | MrHatter123 | ratrace, I am root |
| 23:17.56 | ratrace | then that sudo makes no difference |
| 23:17.59 | MrHatter123 | but never had to do the sudo command before buster. |
| 23:18.18 | MrHatter123 | well, that's what just made it work. |
| 23:18.24 | ratrace | then you were not root |
| 23:18.27 | MrHatter123 | I was root |
| 23:18.41 | ratrace | no you weren't |
| 23:19.07 | ratrace | sudo without -u alters uid to root. if you already were root, it makes no sense or difference |
| 23:19.10 | MrHatter123 | ratrace, I can reproduce it right now. |
| 23:19.27 | ratrace | then that's either not debian or you have some container/namespacing/ACLs or something along those lines broken |
| 23:19.37 | *** join/#debian camarllon (~marllon@unaffiliated/camarllon) |
| 23:19.39 | MrHatter123 | ratrace, it was a vanilla install |
| 23:19.42 | MrHatter123 | very basic |
| 23:19.48 | *** join/#debian Emmanuel_Chanel (~Emmanuel_@ZN020118.ppp.dion.ne.jp) |
| 23:19.57 | ratrace | on normal Debian installation, you ABSOLUTELY do not need sudo to run grub install (or anything requiring root) |
| 23:20.01 | MrHatter123 | grub-install /dev/sda from the command line no longer works |
| 23:20.05 | ratrace | !buster su |
| 23:20.05 | dpkg | In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). See https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes for details. |
| 23:20.13 | ratrace | so you're confusing PATH with being root perhaps? |
| 23:20.31 | MrHatter123 | so if you use the path /usr/sbin/grub-install /dev/sda : this error happens : /usr/sbin/grub-install: error: disk `md0' not found. |
| 23:20.38 | ratrace | ie. grub-install vs /sbin/grub-install |
| 23:20.50 | MrHatter123 | if I use the command sudo grub-install /dev/sda : it works. |
| 23:21.10 | ratrace | I see no reason why that should work. Also, I have dozens of servers with mdadm for /boot and I never had to invoke sudo |
| 23:21.30 | MrHatter123 | ratrace, me too, more than dozens. this has not happened before. |
| 23:21.36 | ratrace | I'm pretty sure you're either not root, or that's not regular debian, but something with broken permissions or ACLs |
| 23:21.51 | MrHatter123 | it was a vanilla debian 10 buster |
| 23:22.11 | ratrace | is it a chroot? |
| 23:22.14 | jhutchins | MrHatter123: Yeah, lots of people run that, and they aren't having problems |
| 23:22.25 | MrHatter123 | ratrace, no |
| 23:22.40 | RoyK | hm - any idea? http://paste.debian.net/1184087/ |
| 23:22.46 | RoyK | debian arm on a pi4 |
| 23:22.55 | jhutchins | !fixgrub |
| 23:22.55 | dpkg | To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>. |
| 23:22.57 | MrHatter123 | fresh install, off a dvd, debian 10 buster, not much installed yet, ssh, openvpn, resync |
| 23:23.08 | MrHatter123 | 'rsync' |
| 23:23.42 | ratrace | I cannot imagine why running as root would not work and running as root + sudo, would. UNLESS that's not regular debian but something broken |
| 23:24.02 | ratrace | the only situations where I saw root being impotent was in context of a MAC |
| 23:24.09 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f1bf000821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:24.15 | MrHatter123 | cat /etc/debian_version |
| 23:24.16 | MrHatter123 | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:24.19 | ratrace | but those aren't default on Debian and I'm assuming you'd know if you installed SELinux or something else |
| 23:24.42 | *** join/#debian Newami (~Newami@ip70-179-45-125.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 23:25.11 | MrHatter123 | something changed with the pathing since buster, I have uprgaded losts of boxes from 9 to 10 recently and I now have to invoke the direct path |
| 23:25.26 | MrHatter123 | however, this time the direct path produced the error |
| 23:25.35 | MrHatter123 | then didn't work until sudo was run |
| 23:25.47 | ratrace | hold on, yes, if by "invoke direct path" you mean you need absolute path, see the !buster su factoid abovoe |
| 23:26.00 | ratrace | *above. THAT did change for Buster, yes. |
| 23:26.04 | MrHatter123 | ie /usr/sbin/grub-install |
| 23:26.15 | ratrace | runnign sudo as root I assure you 100% is not normal for Debian, or expected, or reasonable. |
| 23:26.49 | jhutchins | echo $PATH |
| 23:26.49 | MrHatter123 | I didn't even install sudo, I don't think it was installed by default in the past ? |
| 23:27.06 | MrHatter123 | echo $PATH |
| 23:27.07 | ratrace | iirc sudo is installed automatically if you don't give root password in the installer |
| 23:27.11 | jhutchins | See also whoami |
| 23:27.26 | MrHatter123 | whoami : root |
| 23:27.28 | ratrace | better use `id`. |
| 23:27.48 | MrHatter123 | id : uid=0(root) gid=0(root) groups=0(root) |
| 23:27.58 | MrHatter123 | perhaps I didn't install the root user and password on install |
| 23:28.01 | jhutchins | MrHatter123: If you don't create a password for root, Debian installs sudo and I believe sets up the user you create. |
| 23:28.04 | MrHatter123 | perhaps only the user |
| 23:28.28 | ratrace | root (uid=0) is always "installed" |
| 23:28.49 | MrHatter123 | so not setting the password caused sudo to be required to be used ? |
| 23:28.51 | ratrace | the only difference you can make is whether you give it a password or not during installation |
| 23:28.54 | *** join/#debian graytron (~tero@unaffiliated/graytron) |
| 23:29.15 | ratrace | yes, the installer does the sane thing and installs sudo for you if you don't give root pass. otherwise you'd be dead in the water and would have to reinstall |
| 23:29.19 | *** part/#debian rawtaz (~rawtaz@unaffiliated/rawtaz) |
| 23:29.23 | jhutchins | MrHatter123: Yes, that's correct. |
| 23:29.35 | ratrace | (and puts you in the %sudo group for default sudoers setup) |
| 23:29.53 | MrHatter123 | but then, even when su'd to root, it doesn't work without sudo |
| 23:30.06 | ratrace | MrHatter123: did you try su -l or just su ? |
| 23:30.15 | MrHatter123 | to root ? |
| 23:30.17 | ratrace | yes |
| 23:30.29 | MrHatter123 | logged in via ssh with normal user, then su |
| 23:30.32 | ratrace | so again: |
| 23:30.34 | ratrace | !buster su |
| 23:30.34 | dpkg | In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). See https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes for details. |
| 23:30.51 | ratrace | you need su - (or -l) to become root, otherwise your PATH is broken. |
| 23:31.02 | MrHatter123 | ratrace, thank you, I wasn't aware of this. |
| 23:31.12 | MrHatter123 | this is new since buster ? |
| 23:31.18 | ratrace | so I'm guessing using sudo as root re-munges the PATH again... but I assure you, running sudo as root is absolutely not ever needed. |
| 23:31.40 | ratrace | MrHatter123: "In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default..." so, yes. |
| 23:31.48 | MrHatter123 | ratrace, ok. thanks. |
| 23:31.57 | MrHatter123 | jhutchins, thx |
| 23:32.04 | sponix | ratrace: running sudo as root -- is just a bit redundant ;) |
| 23:32.20 | ratrace | to be precise, running sudo without -u as root is redundant |
| 23:32.22 | MrHatter123 | yeah, I was all weirded out by it. |
| 23:32.49 | ratrace | sudo -u <user> , run as root, is very much a thing for dropping privilege for a command |
| 23:32.50 | MrHatter123 | the difference here is me not escalating to root with su - |
| 23:33.31 | MrHatter123 | I just tried it, escalate to root with su - |
| 23:33.33 | MrHatter123 | and it worked. |
| 23:33.43 | ratrace | nice. |
| 23:33.47 | MrHatter123 | so the sudo thing is need if you su to root with just 'su' |
| 23:33.48 | *** join/#debian doubletwist (~doubletwi@cpe-67-11-91-186.rgv.res.rr.com) |
| 23:34.00 | ratrace | NO |
| 23:34.02 | MrHatter123 | which shouldn't ever be done anyway. |
| 23:34.03 | *** join/#debian thebe111 (~thebe111@gateway/tor-sasl/thebe111) |
| 23:34.09 | MrHatter123 | just lucky that it worked ? |
| 23:34.10 | ratrace | you can use absolute path if you mistakengly don't use -l |
| 23:34.30 | MrHatter123 | which is preferred ? su - or su -l ? |
| 23:34.31 | ratrace | "sudo thing is needed" .. it is not needed. use absolute paths, or su -l |
| 23:34.48 | ratrace | I think it's a matter of taste. I like to be explicit with -l |
| 23:34.58 | ratrace | just - looks like a broken option to me |
| 23:36.01 | MrHatter123 | but they are identical ? |
| 23:37.01 | *** join/#debian zbychuk (~zbychuk@87-205-128-117.adsl.inetia.pl) |
| 23:37.19 | sney | got in the habit of 'sudo -i' over a decade ago and never looked back |
| 23:37.52 | *** join/#debian renzhi (~renzhi@2607:fa49:6500:6f00::1e43) |
| 23:38.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1180] by debhelper |
| 23:38.01 | *** join/#debian tablerice (~tablerice@rrcs-71-41-50-122.se.biz.rr.com) |
| 23:41.02 | ratrace | sney: that's what I do too, since I basically mostly use sudo |
| 23:41.09 | ratrace | MrHatter123: yes, they are |
| 23:43.08 | *** part/#debian sveva65 (~sverre@unaffiliated/sveva65) |
| 23:45.13 | MrHatter123 | ratrace, thank you. |
| 23:47.00 | RoyK | sney: heh - well known one ;) |
| 23:53.47 | *** join/#debian laslie (~laslie@gateway/tor-sasl/lasliedv) |