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| 00:02.37 | vanfanel64 | Is it ok if I link my unix.stackexchange.com question here? |
| 00:03.37 | sponix | vanfanel64: probably |
| 00:04.22 | vanfanel64 | https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/632681/overriding-udisks2-media-user-mount-with-custom-fixed-mount-point-for-specific |
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| 00:20.50 | TheSilentLink | Hi I'm trying to install wireguard from the backports but I get Building initial module for 5.9.0-0.bpo.5-arm64 Error! The dkms.conf for this module includes a BUILD_EXCLUSIVE directive which does not match this kernel/arch. This indicates that it should not be built. Skipped. |
| 00:21.10 | TheSilentLink | anyone know why? I installed linux-headers-5.9.0-0.bpo.5-arm64 |
| 00:21.41 | sponix | TheSilentLink: it is skipped because kernel 5.9 has wireguard built in, it has no need to do the dkms build :) |
| 00:21.56 | TheSilentLink | oh I'm an idiot! |
| 00:22.08 | TheSilentLink | sponix: I don't need wiregurd-dkms then right? |
| 00:22.08 | sponix | So, just install the wireguard-tools or whatever and you are done |
| 00:22.28 | sponix | TheSilentLink: nope, no wireguard-dkms needed for like kernel 5.6 and above |
| 00:22.56 | TheSilentLink | yep I knew that didn't realise I was on 5.9 |
| 00:23.32 | TheSilentLink | sponix: what about the wireguard package? do I just need tools? |
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| 00:23.50 | sponix | wait one |
| 00:24.31 | sponix | TheSilentLink: I think you need both "wireguard" and "wireguard-tools" just not the wireguard-dkms |
| 00:24.46 | sponix | I could be wrong on that |
| 00:24.47 | TheSilentLink | oh it says wireguard is just a metapackage |
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| 00:24.56 | sponix | yeah, you likely just need the -tools then |
| 00:25.03 | TheSilentLink | yep thanks a lot! |
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| 00:27.20 | JackFrost | wireguard is a meta that depends on either the dkms module or a kernel that supports wireguard native. It doesn't actually contain anything. |
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| 02:24.48 | Gramcor | debian update codeblocks in buster-backports please |
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| 02:33.18 | sney | oh yeah, that's how you get what you want |
| 02:34.41 | dvs | orders debian to do the dishes |
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| 02:36.31 | themill | you at least need sudo on that⦠|
| 02:36.59 | dvs | aw |
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| 02:56.12 | awal1 | i have 2 screens here. why a given software chooses to apear in the external screen instead of the main? i'm referring to 'obsession-exit' window pop-up (always appearing in the exyernal screen, and 'tor browser', it just did that the first start. (openbox wm) |
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| 02:57.47 | awal1 | i don't know how to force obsession-exit to appear on the main |
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| 02:59.42 | beelzebuzz | awal1: devilspie :D |
| 03:01.28 | awal1 | beelzebuzz, thanks! |
| 03:01.37 | awal1 | i will try it |
| 03:11.17 | awal1 | ,v devilspie |
| 03:11.18 | judd | Package: devilspie on amd64 -- jessie: 0.23-2; bullseye: 0.23-2+b1; buster: 0.23-2+b1; sid: 0.23-2+b1; stretch: 0.23-2+b1 |
| 03:11.27 | awal1 | ,v devilspie2 |
| 03:11.28 | judd | Package: devilspie2 on amd64 -- jessie: 0.38-1; stretch: 0.42-1; bullseye: 0.43-3; buster: 0.43-3; sid: 0.43-4 |
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| 04:58.16 | euandreh | which are some packages that distribute both static and dynamic builds of their library code? |
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| 05:02.20 | ChmEarl | euandreh, qemu |
| 05:02.52 | ChmEarl | like qemu-user-static |
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| 05:04.12 | euandreh | ChmEarl: hmm, let me take a look |
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| 05:59.12 | rue_bed2 | I'm trying t track down a problem with nfs |
| 05:59.30 | rue_bed2 | whats the other program like tcpdump called? |
| 06:00.13 | sney | wireshark? |
| 06:00.16 | rue_bed2 | yes! wireshark! |
| 06:01.41 | sney | 'apt rdepends libpcap0.8' for a tidy list of packet capture utilities |
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| 06:13.59 | beelzebuzz | tshark is nice |
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| 07:35.33 | ratrace | sney: hack! but a nice one :) |
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| 07:44.08 | jaggz | there a dmo support channel somewhere? |
| 07:45.09 | themill | nope. no-one is interested in supporting that mess |
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| 07:49.14 | ratrace | what's.... dmo |
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| 08:02.41 | jaggz | ratrace, debian-multimedia.org |
| 08:03.37 | jaggz | themill, man.. I just wanted to install avidemux but it's not in official repos |
| 08:03.46 | ratrace | jaggz: ah, thanks |
| 08:03.49 | n4dir | jaggz: librazik has lots of audio tools, and it has an irc channel. Wether or not they contain debian-multimedia.org i wouldn't know |
| 08:04.09 | n4dir | it doesn't have avidemux though. |
| 08:04.49 | jaggz | oh a whole audio system distribution based on debian.. that's neat, n4dir |
| 08:05.01 | jaggz | it's the ubuntu of audio studios :) |
| 08:05.18 | n4dir | jaggz: well, you can install all of it on top of debian. Or whatever you need only |
| 08:05.26 | n4dir | and lots is not in the debian repos. |
| 08:05.27 | ratrace | you mean like ubuntu studio? :) |
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| 08:05.55 | n4dir | ratrace: yes, but ubuntustudio also has graphics stuff. librazik is only audio stuff |
| 08:06.16 | n4dir | and loads of it. Yesterday i counted the "virtual instrumenst" -> more than 40 |
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| 08:07.03 | n4dir | but, as said, avidemux is not to be found via apt-cache search over here |
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| 08:09.50 | n4dir | ubuntu-studio obviously is ubuntu based. librazik (and AVLinux) are debian based. For some that might matter |
| 08:12.58 | ratrace | well I was referring to "ubuntu of audio studios" :) there already is ubuntu .... of audio studios. |
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| 08:16.53 | n4dir | sorry, i don't understand that |
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| 08:17.33 | jaggz | n4dir, thanks for checking that out |
| 08:18.12 | ratrace | n4dir: "< jaggz> it's the ubuntu of audio studios" "< ratrace> you mean like ubuntu studio?" |
| 08:18.19 | jaggz | don't we have a "why is package x not included" search? .. or is that in debian-next or something |
| 08:18.39 | n4dir | jaggz: i seem to recall a guy called golinux used or uses avidemux a much, from #devuan. You might ask over there, perhaps he can give you a hand |
| 08:19.13 | jaggz | well.. I'd just build the thing from source if I needed to.. I usually use debian-multimedia.org though |
| 08:19.29 | n4dir | ah, then all is good, it sounds |
| 08:19.30 | jaggz | too many things it has in it that aren't in debian (throughout the years anyway.. can't think of much notable right now) |
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| 08:19.43 | jaggz | yeah.. thank you for the references though |
| 08:20.11 | jaggz | I did enjoy ubuntu's packaging of stuff on top of testing years ago, but I .. well, to be frank I just don't trust it |
| 08:20.52 | n4dir | imho ubuntustudio does a good job though. Makes it pretty easy and comfortable |
| 08:20.56 | jaggz | so in all these years I just really don't have a good middle ground between the often extremely-aged debian stable and the often-disturbing instability of -testing |
| 08:21.25 | ratrace | jaggz: not even backports? |
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| 08:21.52 | n4dir | i workaround by simply looking at the version numbers |
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| 08:27.40 | jaggz | ratrace, is there a testing-backports? |
| 08:27.48 | jaggz | oh |
| 08:27.50 | jaggz | gotcha |
| 08:27.56 | jaggz | it helps |
| 08:28.05 | jaggz | but some stuff is just too old sometimes no matter what |
| 08:28.09 | jaggz | anyway, no matter. |
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| 08:28.51 | ratrace | jaggz: could always try backporting yourself, it's not that difficult. assuming it can be backported due to dependencies |
| 08:29.15 | jaggz | when i build things myself I usually just use checkinstall to install it |
| 08:29.49 | jaggz | or leave it in its own dir and make an alias or script to call it :) |
| 08:30.25 | jaggz | avidemux has an appimage it looks like, so there's that |
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| 08:52.52 | backupluis | Hi, Im a bit confused about nvidia drivers, I understand that debian have nvidia drivers but I don't know what is the difference with propietary from the nvidia site. I just installed from the site but I need some i386 libraries that there are no more on nvidia package (propietary). |
| 08:53.44 | ratrace | backupluis: it's the same driver, but packaged in Debian. you should _not_ run the .run installer from nvidia.com |
| 08:53.55 | ksk | backupluis: read the wiki article about nvdia, its quite useful. |
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| 08:54.19 | ksk | https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers -- it comes basicly down to installing "nvdidia-detect" and then doing what it tells you. |
| 08:54.46 | ratrace | because it installs files outside the package manager, because you need to remember to re-run it after each kernel upgrade, because it's a mess requiring special tools to uninstall..... just use the packaged proprietary driver, if you want the proprietary one. |
| 08:55.40 | backupluis | Yes, Im in that page, but because the page says that The propietary provides blah blah and says nothing about the driver on Debian I choose to install the nvidia one. |
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| 08:55.57 | backupluis | Ok, I will remove an install the debian one |
| 08:56.47 | Mister00X | backupluis: that is the nvidia one |
| 08:58.44 | ratrace | backupluis: it's literally the same file, but packaged through .deb |
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| 08:59.13 | ratrace | (and thus part of package management and DKMS triggered rebuilds) |
| 08:59.41 | Mister00X | ^^ which is what one wants for ease of use |
| 09:00.27 | backupluis | Will move to the debian one, Years using the propietary because for me the page says its better from the nvidia site, maybe someone should clarify in the page. |
| 09:01.36 | ksk | backupluis: did you run nvidia-detect? |
| 09:01.40 | Mister00X | > Multiple precompiled driver versions are available for Debian 10 "Buster": it says |
| 09:02.20 | Mister00X | it also says > This page describes how to install the NVIDIA proprietary display driver on Debian systems. |
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| 09:02.40 | Mister00X | at the top of the page |
| 09:02.42 | ratrace | ... and proceeds to do it with apt. |
| 09:02.45 | backupluis | I've change my card some weeks ago, so I just download the latest from nvida, uninstall the old one (legacy) and put this new one, everything its ok, but I knwow, as you say that I have to reinstall or rebuild on every system upgrade. |
| 09:02.53 | ratrace | nothing on that page seems to suggest to go and run the .run |
| 09:03.10 | backupluis | The proprietary "NVIDIA Accelerated Linux Graphics Driver" provides optimized hardware acceleration of Open |
| 09:03.26 | backupluis | And says nothing about the Debian is better |
| 09:03.39 | ratrace | the nvidia-driver package IS the proprietary driver |
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| 09:05.01 | backupluis | Well, will reboot to change my driver, Thank Mister and ratrace!!! |
| 09:05.07 | ratrace | I mean the whole page is about installing "the proprietary driver" in Debian, and has steps involving non-free repo and apt, to install the package. Except for some CUDA toolkits, it doesn't even link to nvidia.com to fetch the tarballs |
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| 09:06.24 | ratrace | I'm curious about something though ..... did they even use the proprietary driver? Nouveau loads by default and unless it's blacklisted (and it is by the nvidia-driver-package), it would still load and preclude the proprietary one, no? |
| 09:06.43 | ratrace | (assuming it's not manually blacklisted) |
| 09:06.57 | Mister00X | ratrace: I think they conflict each other |
| 09:07.33 | ratrace | yes, but what I mean, unless you manually blacklist it, it wouldn't load I think |
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| 09:08.11 | ratrace | so I'm curious if they're aware of this, and if they blacklisted nouveau |
| 09:08.49 | Mister00X | I dont know what exactely in the nvidia-driver package blacklists nouveau so idk |
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| 09:09.46 | ratrace | Mister00X: the .deb installs a /etc/modprobe.d/nvidia-something-something.conf |
| 09:10.20 | Mister00X | oh in that case ..... I think they should be aware of this |
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| 09:18.31 | ratrace | Mister00X: https://sources.debian.org/src/nvidia-graphics-drivers/460.39-1/debian/nvidia-alternative.postinst.in/#L83 for the reference |
| 09:19.49 | ratrace | wrong paste .... this file: https://sources.debian.org/src/nvidia-graphics-drivers/460.39-1/debian/nvidia-blacklists-nouveau.conf/ |
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| 09:23.29 | Mister00X | ratrace: Ok yes this is done by the post inst. Hopefully nvidia does the same..... not that they care about it but it would be nice |
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| 09:23.51 | Lope | anyone familiar with dconf? |
| 09:25.21 | ratrace | !anyone |
| 09:25.21 | dpkg | Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>. |
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| 09:26.57 | Lope | :) I dumped my gnome-terminal profile like this: `dconf dump /org/gnome/terminal/legacy/profiles:/ > pro` Then I edited the visible-name and the UUID slightly, then loaded it like this `cat pro | dconf load /org/gnome/terminal/legacy/profiles:/` if I dump again, it's there, but doesn't show up in gnome-terminal preferences even after closing and re-opening gnome-terminal. |
| 09:29.11 | Lope | okay, this looks helpful: https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Terminal/FAQ |
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| 09:30.55 | Lope | Interestingly the profile that I created with dconf doesn't show up when I do `gsettings get org.gnome.Terminal.ProfilesList list` but it does when I do this: `dconf dump /org/gnome/terminal/legacy/profiles:/` lolz |
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| 09:55.38 | Lope | Cool, I used the info from the FAQ to solve my issue using gsettings. |
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| 10:13.20 | choice | Hello! Does anybody know if the mate desktop has a dark mode? It seems Chromium only accepts a dark mode flag from the os. And I would like Chromium to be in dark mode. |
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| 11:26.47 | iGadget | Hi all. Question - I have to save my data from a cloud provider which is terminating services next week. The only way to get the data is via web gui (not really doable for 250GB+) or webdav. So I installed davfs2, mounted the share and started the copy job with cp. Hoping out would be finished in the morning... only to find out now that the process has completely stalled, but cannot be stopped (not even with kill -9 as |
| 11:27.33 | iGadget | Apparently, the process is in 'Uninterruptible Sleep', status D+ according to ps. |
| 11:28.23 | iGadget | So... am I cordially screwed and do I have to reboot my system, or is there anything else I could try? |
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| 11:33.25 | ksk | I think yes, you will have to reboot. |
| 11:34.22 | ksk | there is the lazy umount option, but I dont think thats something to recommend ever, it will also not get rid of the dead cp most likely. |
| 11:34.54 | iGadget | Darn. Well that's a tough lesson then - NEVER EVER use davfs on a production server for a large amount of data. |
| 11:34.59 | ksk | If I were you I would maybe checkout some "dav downloader" tool instead of mounting it. |
| 11:35.16 | ksk | I dont think that DAVfs in general is a problem, I have seen it used in production. |
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| 11:35.35 | ksk | since webdav is http, it might be wget can do the job. |
| 11:36.04 | iGadget | If not DAVfs, then what else could it be? |
| 11:36.26 | dob1 | I don't find anything in /etc/network/interfaces where is them defined? for sure I didn't use networkmanager, I setupt it on installation |
| 11:36.50 | ksk | I mean it has most likely something to do with implementation here. |
| 11:36.57 | ksk | checkout https://askubuntu.com/questions/104046/how-do-i-recursively-copy-download-a-whole-webdav-directory maybe. |
| 11:37.13 | iGadget | ksk: thanks, will do. |
| 11:37.16 | ksk | first answer looks reasonable |
| 11:37.55 | iGadget | dob1: systemd? |
| 11:38.13 | dob1 | iGadget, I was thinking the same but I don't know where to look |
| 11:38.35 | ksk | Mhhm I thought Debian would use e/n/i by default. |
| 11:38.53 | ksk | checkout https://wiki.debian.org/SystemdNetworkd maybe. |
| 11:39.07 | ksk | "/etc/systemd/network" it says. |
| 11:40.41 | dob1 | and instead it is configured by network manager.... |
| 11:40.44 | dob1 | but I naver used the gui |
| 11:40.46 | dob1 | *never |
| 11:41.41 | ksk | it might be related to your choice of Desktop. |
| 11:42.02 | ksk | (like, you install Gnome or so, which brings in network manager in a "I do stuff" configuration) |
| 11:42.43 | dob1 | damn |
| 11:43.10 | dob1 | in practice there are 3 way to configure network ? /etc/network/interface , systemd and network manager? |
| 11:44.15 | ksk | these are three prominent, but there are for example replacements for network manager (like wicd). |
| 11:44.40 | ksk | wicd is for configuring WIFI, does not have the complete network manager featureset as far as I know |
| 11:45.03 | ratrace | technically you can script iproute and dhclient and run that on boot, too |
| 11:45.09 | dob1 | if I have 3 all of them configured who takes first? |
| 11:45.27 | ratrace | (which is to say you don't need strictly any higher level tool) |
| 11:45.48 | ratrace | dob1: there's no priority testing, they conflict if they try to configure same interfaces |
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| 11:46.14 | dob1 | ratrace, and I will be unable to connect to the machine ? (it's a remote one) |
| 11:46.22 | ratrace | if they mess it up, yes |
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| 11:46.44 | dob1 | ratrace, I didn't let me to edit network manager connection, maybe becasue it is in use? |
| 11:46.54 | ratrace | systemd-networkd is always there but without explicit configuration files and enabled service, it won't affect your config |
| 11:47.10 | ratrace | interfaces(5) is run by networking.service, by default enabled on Debian |
| 11:47.57 | ratrace | NM is by default configured NOT to touch explicitly defined interfaces(5). so technically you can have all three of them _present_ , the defautls are somewhat sane |
| 11:49.35 | dob1 | ratrace, I would like to move to /etc/network/interfaces that is the one that I used and forget about network manager |
| 11:49.50 | jelly | iGadget, if davfs is fuse-based, you can make the process move by killing the backend for the fuse mount |
| 11:50.36 | jelly | happens to me with sshfs every now and then, killing the ssh and sshfs process unhangs the processes using the mount |
| 11:50.53 | ratrace | dob1: by default NM won't try to configure NICs defined in /etc/network/interfaces |
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| 11:51.59 | ratrace | dob1: you can also explicitly tell NM not to touch your NICs, via NetworkManager.conf and no-auto-default= entry |
| 11:52.34 | ratrace | the entry managed=false under [ifupdown] should ensure that NM doesn't try any of NICs managed by interfaces(5) |
| 11:53.16 | dob1 | ratrace, well what I want to be sure while testing is one of them works to not be cut-off from the pc |
| 11:54.38 | ratrace | there's no guarantees, if you fblarghk something up. ideally you'll have physical access or an OOB way to rescue/change configuration |
| 11:55.09 | dob1 | but I am sure that I never used network manager, and as default de I have xfce |
| 11:55.21 | dob1 | why it used network manager during installation |
| 11:56.25 | ratrace | dob1: is there an iface defined by interfaces(5)? |
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| 11:56.54 | dob1 | ratrace, only lo |
| 11:58.32 | ratrace | then that's probably why. define an iface stanza, and verify that NetworkManager.conf has managed=false entry |
| 12:00.10 | dob1 | this is my NetworkManager.conf https://paste.debian.net/1184135/ |
| 12:00.44 | ratrace | seems reasonable |
| 12:02.36 | dob1 | ratrace, the problem is that I am connected via rdp to have xfce running and I can't edit connections (the option is not available) and using sudo nm-connection-editor from a terminale in xfce gives me cannot open display: :11.0 |
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| 12:05.47 | ratrace | dob1: if you're feeling lucky, you could configure interfaces(5) and reboot. this is not a sane advice. please refer to the above requirement to have physical and/or OOB access in case you flak things up. |
| 12:06.41 | dob1 | ratrace, but I cannot edit network manager configuration ? |
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| 12:08.01 | ratrace | dob1: with that managed=false, NM will not touch ifaces configured in /etc/network/interfaces, on reboot |
| 12:08.30 | dob1 | ratrace, the same interface will be ignored by NM, right? |
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| 12:08.37 | ratrace | meaning you probably don't have to alter anything for NM additionally. |
| 12:08.52 | ratrace | dob1: yes, that's the idea of managed=false. please refer to the NetworkManager.conf manpage. |
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| 12:09.38 | dob1 | ratrace, thanks I will try when someone is there where there is the pc |
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| 12:27.07 | meltingwax | i am getting this apt failure bug (libef1:i386 fails to install, holding up all of apt). are there any workarounds? https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=981930 |
| 12:27.33 | Mister00X | meltingwax: you're on unstable or testing? |
| 12:27.38 | meltingwax | unstable |
| 12:28.13 | Mister00X | meltingwax: there is a workaround mv /usr/share/locale/en@boldquot/LC_MESSAGES/elfutils.mo /usr/share/locale/en@boldquot/LC_MESSAGES/elfutils.mo-back &6 apt -f install |
| 12:28.23 | Mister00X | but I guarantee for nothing |
| 12:28.44 | meltingwax | thx will try |
| 12:28.57 | Mister00X | meltingwax: also discussions about unstable are usually in #debian-next on oftc |
| 12:29.18 | meltingwax | thanks Mister00X , trying that |
| 12:29.26 | Mister00X | meltingwax: note the typo in that command |
| 12:29.27 | meltingwax | re: oftc.. noted |
| 12:29.31 | meltingwax | yes i figured that out :) |
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| 12:48.22 | iGadget | Well... things are escalating here pretty quickly with the whole davfs debacle - when I now try to cd into the mounted webdav directory using autocomplete (TAB), the shell hangs :-( |
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| 12:50.32 | iGadget | As a wise wizard once said... "Nothing is ever easy." |
| 12:51.55 | ksk | iGadget: thats kind of the "remote does not answer" behaviour. Did you check you can access it using wget? I can only guess a short notice "we go out of business" letter could lead into many people wanting to donwload stuff ;) |
| 12:52.48 | iGadget | True that. Will try the wget method now. |
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| 13:08.36 | iGadget | ksk: wget method does not seem to work, it only downloads the exact last part of the url (.../remote.php/webdav) instead of the files located at that url. So now I have exactly one file 'webdav', containing just the word 'OK'. |
| 13:09.53 | ksk | hum, you are using the options the answer refers to? |
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| 13:11.12 | ksk | is that nextcloud? the internet suggests using "example.com/nextcloud/remote.php/dav/files/USERNAME/" |
| 13:11.18 | iGadget | some of them. Tried several options, none work. |
| 13:11.30 | ksk | Guess comes down to configuration.. |
| 13:11.47 | ksk | but that .php is not something I would expect you be able to mount. |
| 13:11.48 | iGadget | it's an old fork of Owncloud actually. |
| 13:13.06 | iGadget | it mounts just fine with davfs, but perhaps it does it's magic without showing the user. |
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| 13:14.03 | iGadget | I'll now try rclone, perhaps that works better. |
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| 13:15.39 | ksk | good luck :) |
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| 13:31.22 | iGadget | well... rclone is doing it's magic now. Lets pray it finishes without stalling :-) |
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| 14:12.09 | jack2019 | Hi, does make sense to encrypt root partition? |
| 14:12.24 | wsky | sure |
| 14:12.48 | n4dir | i could not think of a good reason. Depends what is installed, i'd guess. |
| 14:12.49 | wsky | full disk encryption is your friend |
| 14:13.22 | n4dir | but a typical desktop installation? hmm. |
| 14:14.18 | jack2019 | a server |
| 14:14.26 | iGadget | Absolutely. It prevents the scenario where (if you would only have /home encrypted) someone would physically access your system, boot it, install a keylogger and extract your credentials. |
| 14:14.28 | rue_mohr | wsky, what are you protecting what from? |
| 14:14.45 | iGadget | For a server, I highly doubt it's useful. |
| 14:14.50 | wsky | unauthorized offline access to the system |
| 14:15.24 | iGadget | When would the server be offline, at night? |
| 14:15.43 | jack2019 | can I encrypt from preesed.cfg? |
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| 14:18.04 | ratrace | think about what happens to the disks after they're broken and replaced. it very much makes sense on the servers too! |
| 14:18.21 | ratrace | and in some cases it's even mandated. |
| 14:18.56 | jack2019 | it looks to hard to install unnatended |
| 14:19.10 | ratrace | SecurityIsHard(tm) |
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| 14:23.36 | jack2019 | ratrace, I am trying to create unattended installation with encryption, is possible to do it form a preesed.cfg file? |
| 14:23.56 | ratrace | jack2019: I don't know, I use ansible and custom installation scripts for that. |
| 14:24.45 | ratrace | (based on debootstrap) |
| 14:28.18 | jack2019 | ratrace, please were to start to learn ansible? |
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| 14:29.55 | iGadget | n4dir: for a laptop, I would recommend it. Agree re stationary desktop usefulness, unless you want to prevent the (for most people pretty unlikely) scenario where someone would break in to compromise your system. |
| 14:30.12 | iGadget | break in physically, that is |
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| 14:31.26 | ratrace | jack2019: with google |
| 14:31.34 | n4dir | not that unlikely. Did it last summer in my case, iGadget |
| 14:31.54 | ratrace | theft is not the only reason to encrypt |
| 14:32.55 | iGadget | ratrace: agreed on broken / replaced disks, but how does this work for unattended servers? Since you're required to enter the pass @ boot? Storing the pass in a script on the server defeats the whole purpose, so how would that work? |
| 14:33.38 | ratrace | iGadget: dropbear in initramfs + ssh unlocking on boot. yes that means if the server reboots, someone has to unlock it |
| 14:33.49 | jack2019 | I do not thing google is a good point to learn, sometime helps but not always |
| 14:33.56 | ratrace | alternatively set up a key server with a custom initramfs script on boot to use it |
| 14:34.10 | ratrace | jack2019: well I can teach if you want. 200⬠per hour. |
| 14:34.22 | ratrace | or use the very much free google :) |
| 14:34.31 | iGadget | n4dir: depends on your risk profile I suppose? I cant think of anyone doing such a thing just to be able to access my mums pc ;-) |
| 14:35.14 | n4dir | they probably thought they could make money with it. I wish i would have seen there faces booting to TTY on a 256 RAM laptop |
| 14:35.52 | ratrace | the copper and rare earths in it is worth more than the functioning laptop, probably :) |
| 14:36.09 | n4dir | the pack of tobacco they stole was more worth ... |
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| 14:36.59 | n4dir | they left the zippo though. lucky me |
| 14:37.04 | jack2019 | ratrace, one hour is anough for me? |
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| 14:38.05 | ratrace | jack2019: that was tongue in cheek. no, you can't learn ansible in one hour. please use google to find ansible documentation, articles on how to use it, and best of all: start using it. the only way to learn is to actually use it. |
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| 14:38.43 | iGadget | ironically, youtube is often a very good starting point for tutorials as well. |
| 14:38.57 | n4dir | i agree. |
| 14:39.00 | ratrace | why's that irony? |
| 14:39.29 | jelly | jack2019, install it, set up some nodes and play with it |
| 14:39.33 | gildasio | hi all, is there any recommendation (preferable from official doc) about disc/partition size? |
| 14:39.34 | iGadget | because youtube, at least in my mind, is associated to bs entertainment |
| 14:40.16 | iGadget | gildasio: I guess that totally depends on your use case... |
| 14:40.23 | ratrace | still not irony. irony would be if YT actively discouraged learning and educational videos, so, ironically, that's where oyu find most of them. |
| 14:40.42 | iGadget | ratrace: I stand corrected. |
| 14:40.47 | ratrace | yes I have an axe to grind with misuse of "ironically" :) |
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| 14:41.23 | ratrace | (or better example: a YT video on how to disable tutorials is, ironically, a tutorial) :) |
| 14:41.36 | gildasio | iGadget: I'm thinking to create a base template for VMs and depending on the case, when instantiate this template, if necessary, create others disks and mounting where I need. So my case is only about the / |
| 14:42.34 | iGadget | gildasio: I dont have enough experience with that, sorry. Anyone else? |
| 14:42.34 | ratrace | steps out for lunch |
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| 14:45.22 | iGadget | ...but thinking about it, I still think it depends on the role that the VM will be getting. The more apps you want to install on it, the larger the rootfs will need to be. Some filesystems allow for resizing though. |
| 14:48.01 | gildasio | Thanks anyway iGadget :) |
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| 14:48.47 | gildasio | Yeah, I'm thinking about it. I want to install only the basics packages (with some for debug cases when need such as dig, tcpdump, htop...) |
| 14:49.35 | gildasio | Maybe I'll use LVM too. And for hypervisor I use KVM/QEMU/LibVirt, so can resize the disk if needed |
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| 14:50.34 | iGadget | I'm hearing very positive thing about ZFS, perhaps you might want to look into that as well. |
| 14:50.41 | iGadget | *things |
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| 14:53.11 | iGadget | Re my davfs issue from earlier - If anyone ever needs to sync a large amount of data from a webdav server - don't use davfs but use rclone instead. It's breeze to set up and it's FAST... And I mean a like a speed difference of > 4 times :-D |
| 14:54.10 | jelly | !win iGadget |
| 14:54.10 | dpkg | Congratulations, iGadget! You have won second prize in a beauty contest! |
| 14:54.16 | gildasio | Umm have never used ZFS, thanks for the recommendation iGadget |
| 14:55.53 | iGadget | jelly: darn it, did you take first prize again? |
| 14:57.21 | n4dir | swedish dicks says second prize is still a loser |
| 14:57.43 | iGadget | gildasio: ProxMox offers out of the box support for ZFS, in case you are shopping for hypervisors ;-) |
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| 14:59.39 | gildasio | Good recomendation iGadget. I like to use only KVM/QEMU/Libvirt without any other intermediate. At least for now |
| 15:00.38 | iGadget | ProxMox supports KVM/QEMU/Libvirt. And LXC. And Docker. |
| 15:01.52 | gildasio | Yeah, I knew it. It's a good project anyway. I just prefer not to use another tool that isn't explicit needed |
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| 15:04.08 | iGadget | Fair enough. Personally, I tried doing it myself first but quit after a week of fruitless effort. But that probably says more about my second-prize skillset ;-) |
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| 15:06.12 | gildasio | haha |
| 15:06.37 | gildasio | iGadget: did you had problem with setting up a Debian with KVM/QEMU/Libvirt? If so, which problem? |
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| 15:17.19 | vanfanel64 | With my udev rule disbled and with the quotes removed from the UUID="..." in fstab: |
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| 15:18.29 | vanfanel64 | UUID=3537-3761 With my udev rule disbled and with the quotes removed from the UUID="..." in fstab: /data exfat-fuse defaults,auto,nofail,x-systemd.device-timeout=2ms 0 0 |
| 15:18.38 | vanfanel64 | With the quotes removed, it will now mount to /data if I use 'sudo udisksctl mount -b /dev/mmcblk3p1' but it no longer tries to mount at all on insertion. |
| 15:18.57 | vanfanel64 | I need this SD card to mount, to /data, 1) on boot, if inserted already, and 2) if it has been ejected and then inserted again. |
| 15:19.49 | vanfanel64 | I've tried researching about this but can't seem to find a good answer as to how to get it to mount automatically. |
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| 15:36.42 | karlpinc | vanfanel64: I used to use something that used udev to mount-on-insert, but I've forgotten what it is. It might be easier if you just had it automount. You add the x-systemd.automount option to the line in fstab. See: man systemd.mount |
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| 15:40.46 | vanfanel64 | karlpinc, thank you, I'll try adding tat option |
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| 15:43.50 | karlpinc | vanfanel64: Then it mounts when you try to access it. You probably don't want boot to hang, so you'll also need (iirc) noauto, and maybe other mount options. And you don't want it backed up, or ordered with those that mount on boot so the last 2 fields are 0. |
| 15:44.20 | karlpinc | vanfanel64: Does not hurt to skim: man mount (iirc) |
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| 15:46.50 | user99 | I am not sure my install completed properly. There was a hang when loading the gui initally (amd graphics nonfree etc), I have that working properly but I am not sure the sytem completed everything at setup. |
| 15:47.29 | user99 | Some things are broken...like roots Path. I can export of course but /etc/profile does not seem to be sourced when I su |
| 15:47.54 | user99 | and sudoers doesn't work and visudo is not installed and not sure what I should do sinc sudoers issues |
| 15:48.05 | vanfanel64 | karlpinc, oh, it does mount when I ls /data, wow, never saw that before tbh |
| 15:48.13 | ectospasm | user99: are you using `su -` instead of `su`? |
| 15:48.30 | user99 | no I should I guess ...sill me |
| 15:48.33 | jelly | !buster su |
| 15:48.33 | dpkg | In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). See https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes for details. |
| 15:48.36 | vanfanel64 | karlpinc, I thought nofail and x-systemd.device-timeout=2ms would prevent boot hang when trying to mount /data |
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| 15:49.33 | user99 | kk...but sudo not work for normal user and should I just su to do tasks? ...always heard favor sudo |
| 15:50.05 | user99 | where is netstat? |
| 15:50.42 | vanfanel64 | user99, I believe it is in the net-tools package |
| 15:50.53 | user99 | k |
| 15:51.03 | user99 | ty |
| 15:52.17 | vanfanel64 | user99, if you ever need to find what package contains a file/program, you can usehttps://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=contents&keywords=netstat&mode=path&suite=stable&arch=any |
| 15:52.39 | vanfanel64 | https://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=contents&keywords=netstat&mode=path&suite=stable&arch=any |
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| 15:54.28 | ectospasm | user99: netstat is deprecated. Use `ss` (socket statistics) instead. |
| 15:54.41 | ectospasm | Has almost the same options/flags as netstat. |
| 15:54.58 | *** join/#debian shtrb (~shtrb@unaffiliated/shtrb) |
| 15:55.05 | ectospasm | Same goes for `ifconfig`, use `ip` instead. |
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| 15:55.44 | shtrb | Is there a dvd source for oldstable that would include non-free packages ? I'm looking at https://cdimage.debian.org/mirror/cdimage/archive/9.13.0/amd64/iso-dvd/ but I think it does not have the non-free packages |
| 15:56.55 | vanfanel64 | ectospasm, I like the new ones though sometimes I have to deal with old scripts that expect the older tools. I like your nick btw, like if Slimer has siezers |
| 15:57.47 | ectospasm | Those scripts should be updated, since as you can see netstat isn't installed by default anymore. |
| 15:58.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1185] by debhelper |
| 15:58.25 | ectospasm | I always recommend not using deprecated tools, you never know when they will no longer be available in the repos. |
| 15:58.29 | vanfanel64 | ectospasm, right, I do update things when I am allowed to |
| 15:59.00 | ectospasm | Yeah, not having authorization to update things is always a pain when your a (junior) sysadmin. |
| 15:59.03 | shtrb | ectospasm, I hope that net-tools would not be removed at least post Debian 15 |
| 15:59.38 | ectospasm | shtrb: I don't know when Debian will drop that package, so you're probably right. |
| 15:59.54 | ectospasm | That it's not installed by default should tell you something, though. |
| 15:59.55 | shtrb | deprecated or not, if stuff is working many people would say don't touch it :D |
| 16:00.15 | ectospasm | There's a reason things are deprecated. Ignore it at your own risk. |
| 16:00.50 | vanfanel64 | shtrb, good point, netstat and ifconfig are really ingrained for a lot of people. I still find my self trying to use them without thinking |
| 16:00.56 | shtrb | There had been reasons to migrate most of debian to systemd, not saying the reason are accepted by all or they are good for all |
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| 16:01.36 | ectospasm | I find those who fight or complain about systemd are curmudgeons that don't like change. (-: |
| 16:02.58 | vanfanel64 | ectospasm, I wouldn't say it is so much about being against change, it is more when alternatives aren't well presented before the change occurrs |
| 16:03.15 | shtrb | ectospasm, calling people names without addressing the actual reasons why someone would not be happy with it, is little bit not productive |
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| 16:05.16 | ectospasm | In many cases that ship has sailed, though. You're free to replace systemd on your own systems with whatever you feel like. But many parts of the Linux world have already adopted it, you should have presented your objections a while ago. |
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| 16:06.07 | ectospasm | !ot |
| 16:06.08 | dpkg | #debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day. |
| 16:06.57 | shtrb | ectospasm, having a rotten tooth when you can not afford a replacment , doesn't mean you should not try to live with it and try to leave around the pain and maintenance of it. |
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| 16:09.09 | foxide | Not really sure what the purpose of this discussion is. systemd is, objectively, far superior and presents far fewer issues than what it replaced. I do not believe that a Debian system with systemd removed is supportable, as that's the equivalent of a lobotomy. Find another distro if you're that opposed to systemd, but I would first recommend you learn the tools now available to you. |
| 16:10.08 | shtrb | sorry, I was venting as I yet again stumbled on a systemd idiotic bug - that someone else might have already reported |
| 16:10.48 | foxide | Yeah, bugs happen, and I can appreciate the frustration. |
| 16:10.53 | shtrb | my issue was not just with systemd, but with ectospasm claim that who ever complain about systemd is curmudgeons |
| 16:11.14 | shtrb | so he hit a nerve as to speak :) |
| 16:11.26 | foxide | I can also appreciate that, yeah. |
| 16:11.40 | foxide | Bugs are viable complaints. :P |
| 16:13.00 | shtrb | Was I correct to assume that offical DVD would not include non-free packages ? |
| 16:13.30 | n4dir | yes |
| 16:13.50 | shtrb | thanks |
| 16:14.16 | jelly | let me confirm from a very tired op point of view, I agree that who ever complain about systemd is curmudgeons |
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| 16:14.28 | jelly | including myself when I do it |
| 16:14.36 | n4dir | both, anitx and devuan, don't look much like a lobotomy to me. |
| 16:15.14 | foxide | n4dir: Well, they are. /shrug |
| 16:15.44 | foxide | Is there a process to request that a package version in testing be brought into stable-updates? There is no new functionality, so it doesn't qualify for stable-backports afaik. |
| 16:15.48 | n4dir | been a bit, but when i ran debian minus systemd it worked pretty ok too |
| 16:15.58 | foxide | It's all just bugfixes. |
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| 16:16.32 | shtrb | foxide, doutfull but maybe via backports |
| 16:16.48 | foxide | Backports policy indicates that bugfix-only stuff doesn't go into backports, but stable-updates. |
| 16:17.14 | foxide | https://backports.debian.org/Contribute - "Backports are about additional features that are only offered in a new version, not a replacement for getting fixes into stable - use stable-updates for that." |
| 16:17.30 | foxide | I just don't know how to go about making such a request. |
| 16:17.31 | shtrb | oh ,sorry, I was wrong |
| 16:18.03 | foxide | shtrb: Don't be sorry, I initially assumed that backports was the right route, too. |
| 16:18.30 | jelly | foxide, you'd file a bug report, or suggest a fix is worthy for inclusion in stable in an existing bug report |
| 16:18.53 | n4dir | as far curmudgeons are concerned: what a funny word. But also the fable comes to mind: https://wiki.debian.org/TheFable |
| 16:19.13 | foxide | jelly: Okay, just a normal bug report against the package? |
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| 16:19.24 | shtrb | I however doubt that a new version only have bugfixes, however a specific patch to fix a specific version would be much more appriated via an bug report |
| 16:19.43 | jelly | foxide, a newer upstream version in general won't be eligible, but maybe you can cherry-pick a patch to be applied to the code already in stable |
| 16:20.13 | shtrb | jelly just said what I said in different words |
| 16:20.15 | foxide | shtrb: I know the software in question VERY well, its all bugfixes. |
| 16:20.22 | foxide | jelly: Okay, I'll see what I can manage. Thanks! |
| 16:20.58 | jelly | shtrb, that's like 90% of what I say in here :-) |
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| 16:21.17 | shtrb | repeat what I say in different words ? |
| 16:22.02 | shtrb | foxide, if you are the dev behind said software, you can suggest a patch for the specific version already in stable, then it should be safe (and probably accepted) |
| 16:22.09 | oxek | when I do `pgrep -a host`, I get 28 results of '$PID host -t soa local.' |
| 16:22.11 | oxek | what is it? |
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| 16:28.40 | iGadget | gildasio: Sorry, got called away. Re your question what I ran into setting up my VM server - Well actually, it was an Ubuntu server (I wanted LXD at the time) and I wanted ZFS and a bunch of other stuff. For some reason I am incredibly talented at picking exactly those combinations which lead to an enormous amount of work. After a week or so it still didn't work as I wanted. And then I tried Proxmox, which worked in a |
| 16:31.03 | jelly | oxek, what's the parent process for those? |
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| 16:33.06 | oxek | jelly: I'm trying to find out |
| 16:33.54 | shtrb | !esxi |
| 16:34.41 | oxek | ok, how do I easily find out the parent of a process? |
| 16:34.44 | jelly | what do you want to know about "esxi" |
| 16:34.49 | shtrb | esxi is do you wish to manage VSphare ? verify it is in read-write mode and use virsh or vmomi |
| 16:34.51 | jelly | oxek, ps -fp PID |
| 16:35.03 | shtrb | jelly, wished to add factoid |
| 16:35.12 | shtrb | why my factoid didn't work ? |
| 16:35.56 | jelly | that does not look like a very good factoid about vSphere API options |
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| 16:36.24 | jelly | you need to address dpkg: dpkg, foo is something, or !foo is something |
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| 16:36.33 | shtrb | oh thanks |
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| 16:36.57 | jelly | ,v virsh |
| 16:36.58 | judd | No package named 'virsh' was found in amd64. |
| 16:37.02 | jelly | ,v vmomi |
| 16:37.03 | judd | No package named 'vmomi' was found in amd64. |
| 16:37.05 | shtrb | dpkg, esxi is do you wish to manage VMware ESXi ? verify it is in read-write mode (and not read only) and then use virsh (from virt-manager) or vmomi |
| 16:37.05 | oxek | jelly: perhaps, but not entirely sure, the parent is '/bin/sh /usr/lib/avahi/avahi-daemon-check-dns.sh' |
| 16:37.06 | dpkg | shtrb: okay |
| 16:37.26 | jelly | oxek, you're getting somewhere, and what's ITS parent? :-) |
| 16:37.52 | oxek | jelly: so I always run `ps -fp PID` and pick the PPID from the result? |
| 16:37.57 | jelly | yes |
| 16:38.05 | oxek | 'run-parts /etc/network/if-up.d' |
| 16:38.06 | jelly | there's pstree |
| 16:38.19 | oxek | I tried pstree, but don't know how to grep it |
| 16:39.05 | jelly | eh... I'd pipe it to less, search the problematic process, then do a visual search for the parent |
| 16:39.16 | jelly | sounds like something called at ifup time |
| 16:39.49 | jelly | "local" is the domain used by mDNS protocol (avahi, link-level name resolving) |
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| 16:40.18 | oxek | sounds like it |
| 16:40.30 | oxek | I want to stop it from creating so many processes |
| 16:40.36 | oxek | it's not even doing anything useful for me |
| 16:40.36 | jelly | host -t soa local. would in general be a way to see if there's a "local." domain in DNS already |
| 16:40.56 | jelly | see which script under /etc/network/if-up.d calls that |
| 16:41.39 | oxek | seems like /etc/network/if-up.d/avahi-daemon |
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| 16:41.54 | jelly | and figure out why host command hangs. |
| 16:42.16 | jelly | is there something weird in your /etc/resolv.conf or your /etc/nsswitch.conf |
| 16:42.39 | user99 | loves vlc and minidlna :-) |
| 16:42.56 | oxek | nothing weird in /etc/resolv.conf, it is Generated by NetworkManager and contains one DNS server |
| 16:43.27 | oxek | I'm not familiar with /etc/nsswitch.conf so I don't know if there's anything weird in it. I did not modify that file though. |
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| 16:48.28 | jelly | oxek, the silly way to stop it would be to just put exit 0 in that script before the last if |
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| 16:48.41 | oxek | this is a snippet of the pstree output showing the mess https://0x0.st/-HsY.txt |
| 16:49.13 | jelly | which debian release is this? |
| 16:49.19 | oxek | debian-stable |
| 16:50.04 | oxek | the /etc/network/if-up.d/avahi-daemon file comes from the avahi-daemon package, which has been automatically installed, and the file has not been modified |
| 16:50.15 | jelly | hm. It's a bug. My _ubuntu 18.04_ laptop has it fixed. |
| 16:50.33 | oxek | `aptitude why avahi-daemon` says 'task-desktop Recommends avahi-daemon' |
| 16:50.58 | jelly | oxek, ubuntu calls the host command with a timeout: |
| 16:50.59 | jelly | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:50.59 | jelly | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:51.19 | jelly | /usr/lib/avahi/avahi-daemon-check-dns.sh in buster does not. |
| 16:51.31 | oxek | ah, so we tracked it down, nice |
| 16:51.33 | greycat | The backticks... the all-caps internal variables... *shudder* |
| 16:52.11 | jelly | yeah I meanged to keep my groans quiet about usage of "host" |
| 16:52.18 | jelly | managed* |
| 16:52.42 | ratrace | host(1) ? |
| 16:52.43 | oxek | so what's the proper way of fixing my issue on my debian system? |
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| 16:53.13 | oxek | I edit the /etc/network/if-up.d/avahi-daemon to be the same as on a ubuntu system? |
| 16:53.16 | jelly | oxek, well. If you don't need avahi you might uninstall the damn thing |
| 16:53.39 | oxek | jelly: to be fair, I don't really know what avahi is or what it does. It got automatically installed with everything else. |
| 16:53.56 | ratrace | setup networking with avahi instead of dhcp, and DigitalOcean will hire you. |
| 16:53.56 | oxek | and since it's part of default debian installation, I don't know if I should be removing it |
| 16:54.18 | jelly | oxek, it makes linux and windows machine names be visible on the local network |
| 16:54.19 | oxek | ratrace: is avahi better than dhcp? |
| 16:54.39 | ratrace | oxek: I thought that sentence oozing with sarcasm would be obvious :) |
| 16:54.49 | jelly | so you can "ping glimmer" even if the laptop named glimmer does not have a DNS entry |
| 16:55.09 | oxek | ratrace: I just really don't know anything about avahi. Sounded vaguely like some iphone thing. |
| 16:55.26 | jelly | linux and macos use it, and apparently windows as well these days |
| 16:55.45 | jelly | it's adjacent to dhcp. |
| 16:55.50 | ratrace | oxek: it's a "zeroconf" thingy. things talk in the network and exchange info so avahi based systems would know where to find printers and other network thingies |
| 16:56.05 | oxek | jelly: I do that through dhcp. but back to the issue, what's the proper fix for the issue? Modify the config file to be the same as ubuntu? |
| 16:56.09 | ratrace | oxek: think "autodiscovery" of network services, devices, etc... |
| 16:56.22 | jelly | oxek, it's not even a config file, it's a proper packaged script |
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| 16:56.34 | jelly | you can modify it to fix the bug. |
| 16:56.53 | oxek | ratrace: yeah autodiscovery never really worked on any of my machines, I always had to give the IP address directly or the hostname and have it resolved through DNS on the router |
| 16:57.04 | oxek | and DHCP was giving machines hostnames |
| 16:57.08 | jelly | but until Debian fixes it, any further upgrades of "avahi-daemon" package will overwrite your fix |
| 16:57.23 | shtrb | jelly, windows using something does not make that something a good choice :P but if some day windows would really start using true avahi then we could put some meat in the stove and celebrate |
| 16:57.25 | oxek | ah, I didn't realize I'd need to modify the packaged stuff |
| 16:57.52 | shtrb | !pinning |
| 16:57.52 | dpkg | Pinning is a method to choose which version of a package to install when multiple versions are available from <sources.list>. Bugs are explained at https://web.archive.org/web/20121017070250/http://carlo17.home.xs4all.nl/howto/debian.html#errata . If you use stable, pinning won't help you from messing up the system, ask me about <backports> instead. https://wiki.debian.org/AptPreferences |
| 16:57.53 | oxek | I'm searching through the debian bugreports to see if it has been reported already |
| 16:57.56 | jelly | ... dpkg -S /usr/lib/avahi/avahi-daemon-check-dns.sh |
| 16:58.27 | oxek | I thought it was just adding some flag to /etc/network/if-up.d/avahi-daemon |
| 16:58.32 | oxek | I was mistaken |
| 16:59.16 | jelly | well you could play dumb and put an exit 0 at the top |
| 16:59.30 | jelly | that will break the check that is already broken |
| 17:00.16 | jelly | but at least bringing up interfaces won't leave lingering "host" processes forever |
| 17:00.44 | jelly | I'm mostly pissed at Ubuntu for fixing stuff that's broken in Debian and not reporting back |
| 17:01.37 | n4dir | k |
| 17:01.41 | oxek | so I add 'exit 0' right underneath the '#!/bin/sh' or before the 'exec /usr/lib/avahi/avahi-daemon-check-dns.sh'? |
| 17:01.50 | n4dir | i already had foam at mouth when i heard avahi |
| 17:01.54 | jelly | oh, they filed it, my bad |
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| 17:02.14 | jelly | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openconnect/+bug/1752411 -> #898038 |
| 17:02.15 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/898038 in avahi-daemon (pending): «avahi-daemon-check-dns.sh hangs forever if a nameserver has ::1 in the address»; severity: important; opened: 2018-05-06; last modified: 2021-02-05. |
| 17:02.16 | oxek | n4dir: is it that bad a package? |
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| 17:02.40 | jelly | oxek, any of those two places will work |
| 17:02.47 | n4dir | oxek, i wouldn't know. I do know that i don't need it, and that it comes with say xfce4 and eats ressources and i don't neet it |
| 17:02.50 | oxek | wait what? The bug was updated today? |
| 17:03.27 | oxek | after 3 years of no activity. That's a strange coincidence. |
| 17:03.59 | jelly | oxek, that fix still won't appear in stable, only sid |
| 17:04.49 | oxek | didn't someone say earlier that bugfixes can appear in buster-updates? |
| 17:05.19 | oxek | n4dir: so your system is fully working even though you don't have avahi-daemon package installed? |
| 17:05.22 | jelly | yes, IF the maintainer makes an explicit upload with the fix applied to the specific version in stsable |
| 17:05.28 | oxek | I just might get rid of it then |
| 17:05.44 | jelly | and this maintainer does not seem to have mentioned that in today's fix |
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| 17:10.37 | oxek | I'm a little worried that removing avahi-daemon will remove libdaemon0, which sounds important |
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| 17:14.14 | jelly | almost no package starting with lib* is not important on its own. Except if there -bin at the end, or if it's libc6 which is not easy to remove |
| 17:14.31 | jelly | s/is not important/is important/ |
| 17:14.56 | oxek | I also spotted there's avahi-daemon.service systemd thing running |
| 17:15.25 | oxek | how did I not know there's this mess on my pc? I only found out by pure chance by searching for processes that start with host (was looking for hosted). |
| 17:15.56 | user99 | bluetooth was enabled on mine default. not sure why that is. but ez enough to kill |
| 17:16.09 | n4dir | something like that was the reason why i said "foam at mouth". oxek . |
| 17:16.40 | oxek | ok, I'm purging avahi-daemon |
| 17:16.53 | oxek | now, is it safe to just kill all those 'host' processes? |
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| 17:17.31 | jelly | yes |
| 17:18.03 | user99 | as root 'service --status-all' gives you an idea whats running |
| 17:18.12 | oxek | you'll see me disconnect if something goes wrong, so lets hope all goes right |
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| 17:22.56 | oxek | well, this popped up right as apt remove was finishing https://0x0.st/-Hzr.png |
| 17:24.00 | oxek | "Error code: -65537" is not very helpful. Isn't that the most negative 16bit signed integer? |
| 17:24.33 | jelly | you removed the zeroconf server, so if anything zeroconf related was running, it would be confused |
| 17:25.24 | oxek | well, 'host' is still running, 28 times :) |
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| 17:28.32 | jelly | pgrep has a sibling, pkill |
| 17:28.46 | oxek | yep, that's what I used. Didn't work without sudo. |
| 17:29.07 | oxek | I ran it, and now my CPU is spinning up to 100% and disk clicking like crazy. |
| 17:29.22 | *** join/#debian wallacer (~quassel@2001:bc8:1824:9a:cafe:babe:b00b:aa01) |
| 17:29.44 | oxek | probably some collection of zombie processes or whatever it's called |
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| 17:30.32 | greycat | !zombie |
| 17:30.33 | dpkg | A zombie process is one which has issued an exit(), but whose parent has not yet issued wait() (or one of its variants) to retrieve the exit code. This usually means the parent process is buggy. You can't kill a zombie, because it's already dead; you have to kill the parent, or just ignore the zombie. |
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| 17:31.06 | oxek | so not a zombie |
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| 18:05.35 | alex11 | where can i read about the differences between transition freeze, soft freeze and hard freeze? |
| 18:07.50 | greycat | https://release.debian.org/bullseye/freeze_policy.html |
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| 18:13.39 | oxek | !freeze |
| 18:13.40 | dpkg | The 'freeze' is when large changes to testing version of Debian are stopped for a few months. During this period, no new package uploads are made except to fix critical bugs or to provide documentation updates. During the freeze, bugs are squashed to 'stabilize' the release to make the new 'stable'. |
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| 18:16.55 | greycat | that factoid is out of date |
| 18:19.40 | user99 | is bullseye's status 'freeze'? |
| 18:20.02 | greycat | dpkg, no, freeze is <reply>In the final stages of a release's testing cycle, a series of increasingly restrictive "freezes" are enforced, preventing various kinds of changes, in order to focus on getting the release into shape. |
| 18:20.02 | dpkg | greycat: okay |
| 18:20.33 | greycat | https://wiki.debian.org/DebianBullseye |
| 18:20.39 | greycat | 2021-01-12: Transition and (build-)essentials Freeze |
| 18:20.40 | greycat | 2021-02-12: Soft Freeze (scheduled) |
| 18:21.40 | user99 | yea..i grok what a freeze is for. that doesn't tell if it is frozen hhmm and that was what I'm looking at is kernel status |
| 18:22.14 | shtrb | Are you telling me we will have bullseye before covid had been won ?! |
| 18:22.30 | user99 | might just migrate not really mission critical system :) |
| 18:22.49 | user99 | likely |
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| 18:39.00 | ph4nt0m | Ã la all |
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| 18:59.32 | bifunc2 | In what ways is Qubes overkill compared to Debian? |
| 19:00.28 | shtrb | You use debian within Qubes |
| 19:00.36 | bifunc2 | lol |
| 19:00.53 | shtrb | what ? |
| 19:01.26 | shtrb | Your question is ill defined, these are two distinctive things , which solve different problems |
| 19:01.52 | bifunc2 | ok in that case, i kinda would ask, under what circumstances would it be overkill to use debian within qubes rather than just debian only. |
| 19:02.27 | bifunc2 | sorry about the illformed question btw |
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| 19:04.04 | shtrb | You can use similar domain approaches within debian if you trust that enough, in fact you can think of each domain as a separate VM (xen or even qemu level), using other isolation tools works too |
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| 19:05.53 | shtrb | One thing I do not like these days is to chatty dbus, but if you have a truly separation between vms for isolation , debian which had been secured enough might be more than enough than having a full blowen QubeOS |
| 19:06.45 | shtrb | bifunc2, ^ |
| 19:07.11 | karlpinc | What's a good application for cross-platform screen sharing, with the debian screen as the one being shared? |
| 19:07.54 | bifunc2 | shtrb what are some ways to isolate, for instance, the USB port or a particular directory (with sensitive files) in debian only? |
| 19:08.05 | bifunc2 | isolate them from the network, for instance |
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| 19:08.14 | shtrb | karlpinc, vnc to the rescue ? there are many vnc clients |
| 19:08.28 | shtrb | karlpinc, but I wouldn't call vnc as a "good" solution :-( |
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| 19:11.53 | shtrb | bifunc2, you can for example use a combination of apparmor , and namespaces (to prevent network access other than loopback) |
| 19:13.43 | aminvakil | bifunc2: firejail |
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| 19:22.58 | karlpinc | shtrb: Thanks. VNC was the first thing that came to mind but wondered if there was anything "better". |
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| 19:25.45 | shtrb | karlpinc, Oh and I had been using in the past HTML5 to rdp/vnc from guacamole, it was amazing experience, but not all phones could work with HTML5 nicely |
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| 19:26.50 | shtrb | so if your phones clients support HTML5 try out guacamole too, works nativly in a browser, the speed is decent, it's fully OSS. |
| 19:27.06 | karlpinc | shtrb: Cool. Thanks. |
| 19:27.31 | karlpinc | I'm not necessarly interested in having the client be a phone, but it's good to know. |
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| 19:29.30 | shtrb | karlpinc , and the best part about guacamole is that it's fully in debian :) but you can use build yourself from https://guacamole.apache.org/ |
| 19:29.51 | shtrb | sounds like guacamole sales person |
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| 19:36.53 | karlpinc | shtrb: So what's the guacamole package? (It does not have "guacamole" in the name....) |
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| 19:38.07 | shtrb | Oh boy it seems that it was removed since stretch and only readed in sid, how time flies https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=guacamole&searchon=names&suite=all§ion=all&sourceid=mozilla-search |
| 19:39.15 | shtrb | karlpinc, I'm sorry ! |
| 19:40.00 | karlpinc | So it goes. :) |
| 19:40.22 | karlpinc | ,v quacamole |
| 19:40.24 | judd | No package named 'quacamole' was found in amd64. |
| 19:40.33 | karlpinc | ,v guacamole |
| 19:40.34 | judd | Package: guacamole on amd64 -- jessie: 0.8.3-1.1; sid: 0.9.9+dfsg-1; stretch: 0.9.9+dfsg-1 |
| 19:40.53 | karlpinc | Not in testing either. That's sad. |
| 19:41.02 | shtrb | \_()_/ |
| 19:41.11 | greycat | https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/guacamole-client |
| 19:41.25 | greycat | removed 3 and a half years ago |
| 19:41.38 | shtrb | time had passed fast |
| 19:41.49 | karlpinc | Guacamole does seem like the right answer. |
| 19:42.32 | jelly | ,v guacamole |
| 19:42.33 | judd | Package: guacamole on amd64 -- jessie: 0.8.3-1.1; sid: 0.9.9+dfsg-1; stretch: 0.9.9+dfsg-1 |
| 19:43.11 | gordonfish | Anyone know why a mounted disk (sdcard, as f2fs, which I can browse and write to in at it's mount point) would not show up in the `mount` or `df -a` ? Is this a namespace thing? |
| 19:43.25 | shtrb | karlpinc, The only minuses in guacamole that I had seen was that not all phones supported HTML5 properly ,and that file transfer was done by a very quirky flow |
| 19:43.41 | jelly | gordonfish, are you running mount as normal user or as root |
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| 19:46.12 | gordonfish | jelly: I have 'UUID=6895bca2-ce0c-4a8b-8ba0-8e904366f395 /data f2fs defaults,auto,nofail,x-systemd.automount' in my fstab and systemd mounts it when I access it |
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| 19:50.55 | karlpinc | shtrb: (The other down-side is the java-ness of it all. Oh well. :-) |
| 19:51.17 | shtrb | Let us keep this channel family friendly :P |
| 19:51.50 | shtrb | it can work under apache , you don't have to use tomcat, in fact I was using it with only apache server and the it's own binaries |
| 19:53.55 | shtrb | but the binaries themselvs do force java on you |
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| 19:56.57 | shtrb | Would anyone remind me what extra action I need to do after putting files directly in /var/cache/apt/archives (what was not installed) that when I do apt-get update apt would take them into account and would not try to search them on the DVD ?, |
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| 20:05.08 | sbingner | https://paste.bingner.com/paste/7pxq5 ... wut, can somebody validate that iperf3 3.6-2 is really iperf 3.62 and not 3.1.3? |
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| 20:06.48 | sbingner | wait even more wtf, on another system iperf3 with identical sha1sum gives me correct version |
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| 20:08.47 | sbingner | libiperf0 wasn't updated lol |
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| 20:11.02 | ryouma | my computer crashed this morning before i got up, last /var/log/message being a backup and "rsyslogd was HUPed". can more information be gotten? |
| 20:12.16 | shtrb | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:13.48 | greycat | usually if there's a hardware crash, there is no chance for the OS to write anything to disk |
| 20:17.08 | ryouma | shtrb: thanks. ok i have in syslog a bunch more last one being "Feb 5 09:45:01 napoleon2 CRON[6721]: (root) CMD (command -v debian-sa1 > /dev/null && debian-sa1 1 1)" (which i don't need but sysstat it has parallel in it) i hav enot configured systemd. idk what you are asking re kernel; it is oldstable. i'm guessing maybe a hardware crash. |
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| 20:19.31 | ryouma | also, i have /root and /home encrypted. for some reason i get asked for pass phrase twice (async it seems, surprisingly to me) and home does not get mounted (async, surprising to me) until a few minutes after i have already logged in as user and it failsafes to / because /home/user isn't there yet. is this probably me setting up something wrong? |
| 20:20.16 | ryouma | if i log out ad back in again after the mounted message appears after a few minutes then it is normal user account |
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| 20:22.18 | lokus | hi. any tips to find a specific linux-headers-3.16.0-4-amd64? my apt repos will only provide -6 |
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| 20:22.31 | greycat | !snapshot |
| 20:22.31 | dpkg | http://snapshot.debian.org/ is an archive of almost all Debian packages uploaded since 2005, including those removed from the official archives because they were very buggy, unusable, broken, vulnerable or in some way non-free. This service replaces snapshot.debian.net. http://www.debian.org/News/2010/20100412 |
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| 20:22.32 | lokus | thanks ! |
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| 21:24.31 | karlpinc | ryouma: The delay is odd, or seems odd to me. I'd look into that. Start, as always, with the logs. If you have not already, configure systemd to do boot logs. |
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| 21:38.38 | ryouma | karlpinc: thanks. i think i have notes on configuring systemd to do boot logs someplace, and will do that when i can. idk what hte second pass pharase is for, root or home (i am guewssing it is maybe home, but i do have a key for it so there should be no pass phrase). and then the delay. (messages appear before the second prompt so it is not visible.) |
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| 21:41.46 | ryouma | ok, the pass phrase thing is probably just that it is a key for the wrong partition or something; never mind that |
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| 21:44.09 | ryouma | (hmm, no, that should work.) |
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| 22:25.41 | ryouma | unintentional disconnect right after message apparently |
| 22:29.41 | jhutchins | ,kernels |
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| 22:29.42 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.10.0-trunk-686 (5.10.2-1~exp1); sid: 5.10.0-3-686-pae (5.10.12-1); bullseye: 5.10.0-2-686-pae (5.10.9-1); buster-backports: 5.9.0-0.bpo.5-686-pae (5.9.15-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-14-686-pae (4.19.171-2); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.13-686 (4.19.160-2~deb9u1); jessie- |
| 22:29.43 | judd | backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1) |
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| 23:06.39 | ectospasm | does firewalld on buster use iptables or nft as its backend? Is there a way I can determine that? |
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| 23:17.17 | foxide | ectospasm: I would say to install and configure it, then see if there are any iptables rules. |
| 23:17.32 | nifker | can I pipe text into a terminal emulator which it will directly execute or does it depend on the emulator? |
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| 23:18.12 | ectospasm | nifker: what are you trying to do? tmux can do that, but it's not exactly a terminal emulator. |
| 23:18.28 | foxide | ectospasm: Appears to use iptables, by the way. |
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| 23:24.28 | ectospasm | Yeah, `iptables --list` shows some of my rules. I don't know how to use nft to see if it's just the iptables wrapper for nft. |
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| 23:25.39 | ectospasm | nifker: most terminal emulators would need to take input from file descriptor other than the usual standard input (usually, your keyboard). |
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| 23:26.04 | ectospasm | nifker: I can't imagine many terminal emulators would have that enabled ever. |
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| 23:34.19 | ectospasm | But you can do it with the tmux command send-keys to an arbitrary session/window/pane in tmux. |
| 23:35.20 | ectospasm | What you send could be arbitrary, and would depend on what you have running in the session/window/pane. |
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| 23:45.14 | Wally | Can someone please tell me which package the qt sql drivers are in? ( I need sqlite) |
| 23:45.30 | tgunr | ectospasm, nftables is not a wrapper for iptables |
| 23:46.15 | ectospasm | tgunr: I know, but there is a compatibility layer to ease the transition from iptables to nft |
| 23:46.31 | tgunr | `nft list ruleset -a' to see rules |
| 23:46.42 | ectospasm | thank you |
| 23:46.58 | ectospasm | I glanced at the nft man page and I didn't get that deep into it. |
| 23:47.31 | tgunr | been using nftables for a few years now, have forgotten how to use iptables :) |
| 23:48.05 | ectospasm | hmmm, is its <ruleset>? I get an error with ruleset. |
| 23:48.28 | ectospasm | Is there a way to list just the ruleset names/titles? |
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| 23:50.47 | tgunr | try `nft list ruleset' |
| 23:53.30 | tgunr | `nft list tables` |
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| 23:57.27 | ectospasm | Ahh, I see. I see my rules in both `iptables --list` and `nft -a list ruleset`. Which makes sense, the userspace `iptables` and `nft` are merely to interfaces to manage the kernel Netfilter subsystem. |
| 23:57.34 | ectospasm | I guess tgunr left. |
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