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| 00:00.28 | freem | ok, got an alt system working with good old stable kernel. WHich tool would you advise me to compare the /etc of both working and broken system? I'm still curious to know what happened with initrd not loading modules... |
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| 00:10.46 | kingsley | Do you happen to know how to automatically check if a DVD is full in a shell script? |
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| 00:12.46 | samantaz | freem: any diff tool will do it. For a gui tool, I use 'kdiff', and either 'diff' or 'git diff --no-index' for a term based one. |
| 00:13.19 | freem | yeah, I use xxdiff, but I wondered if there would be something more suitable for /etc |
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| 00:13.47 | freem | I'm in awe reading how much files remained from the installs & purge I did through the years :) |
| 00:14.17 | samantaz | kingsley: run the GNU 'du' (disk usage) utility, with the -s (summary) and -h (human readable) command line switches on your DVD's mount point |
| 00:14.18 | kingsley | us |
| 00:14.36 | samantaz | kingsley: if you get '4.5G', then the DVD is full. |
| 00:14.59 | kingsley | (Oops! I accidentally typed "us" in my IRC client's window. Sorry!) |
| 00:15.12 | dvs | !lart kingsley |
| 00:15.12 | dpkg | explains, ever so gently, that if kingsley doesn't give the channel more information, they can't help |
| 00:15.23 | dvs | gasp! |
| 00:15.47 | samantaz | kingsley: Haha, yeah wrong window. Happens often to me too xD |
| 00:16.05 | samantaz | As long as you don't type your root password in here, that's fine xD |
| 00:18.12 | kingsley | samantaz: Thanks for reassuring me. Do you happen to know a command line utility, maybe like 'du', which returns a non-zero status for full DVDs? |
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| 00:20.27 | freem | full DVD? As in, you try to check if that RW DVD still have some space left? |
| 00:22.29 | kingsley | freem: More or less. |
| 00:23.51 | freem | hum... my fresh install lack something, I have broken terminal char sequences... I'm sure it's just one command to run, but can't remember which one |
| 00:28.47 | samantaz | kingsley: nope, I don't know other utilities, sorry. |
| 00:29.41 | freem | what's /etc/shadow.org ? |
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| 00:34.43 | samantaz | uhhhhhhh |
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| 00:36.30 | samantaz | freem: /etc/shadow is the system "password" file. It contains the encrypted passwords of each user, and the account expiration date. Sometime you *may* find a .old version of it. But .org is... suspicious |
| 00:37.00 | freem | samantaz: well, that's exactly why I asked |
| 00:37.31 | samantaz | have you tried to 'dpkg -S' it ? |
| 00:37.39 | freem | now, that system was a debian 11 chroot I wanted to use, that I downgraded to debian 10 because my tools would not work |
| 00:37.40 | jmcnaught | Unless you made it yourself when you manually edited the file. |
| 00:37.47 | freem | what's -S here? |
| 00:37.54 | freem | rtfm |
| 00:38.03 | samantaz | find the package that provides this file |
| 00:38.19 | freem | nothing found |
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| 00:38.30 | freem | but then, system got a downgrade |
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| 00:40.12 | samantaz | freem: https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/606478 |
| 00:40.18 | samantaz | check that out |
| 00:40.23 | samantaz | here's your answer |
| 00:40.43 | freem | ohhh thanks! |
| 00:40.53 | samantaz | yw :) |
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| 00:49.26 | merAzi | I thought those were related to Emacs' org-mode hahaha |
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| 01:25.30 | samantaz | Does someone know if the mirror size in here are up to date? https://www.debian.org/mirror/size |
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| 01:30.24 | dvs | samantaz: hmmm. my amd repo is about 80gb |
| 01:30.58 | samantaz | 80g ???? |
| 01:31.02 | samantaz | HOW |
| 01:31.14 | samantaz | I'm at 1.5 TB already!! |
| 01:31.24 | samantaz | (and only at letter G) |
| 01:32.18 | dvs | there's a lot of l's |
| 01:33.36 | merAzi | Lol, heavy stuff |
| 01:34.54 | maxtim | I had asked a question about LVMs earlier, and I just spun up a vm to practice the methods discussed earlier. In the past, I've also messed around with mdadm. So I'm curious about anyone's opinion on LVM vs mdadm |
| 01:37.29 | dvs | maxtim: vs? They're not related as far as I'm concerned. |
| 01:37.56 | maxtim | dvs, you're right I thought about the question after I posted |
| 01:38.34 | maxtim | mdadm is a software raid, lvm is logical volume management |
| 01:38.41 | maxtim | totally different things |
| 01:38.50 | dvs | maxtim: Once of my drives has LVM but I don't find it very useful. I'd rather use gparted. |
| 01:39.15 | jmcnaught | I use both, I have two HDDs in an mdadm RAID1 which is a physical volume for my LVM volume group. |
| 01:39.15 | maxtim | i tend to stay away from gui stuff |
| 01:39.35 | dvs | find then, parted! |
| 01:40.45 | jmcnaught | LVM is pretty flexible, there is a lot of overlap with mdadm. With LVM you can choose per-logical-volume linear, mirrored, striped, raid5 etc. |
| 01:41.17 | maxtim | I have one server that runs mdadm raid1 as well, but i don't use lvm there. that server is only for backups |
| 01:41.39 | jmcnaught | LVM is also useful for snapshots. |
| 01:41.58 | maxtim | i'm learning that about lvm. I honestly thought it was choatic when i first started messing with it. |
| 01:42.23 | jmcnaught | The Red Hat manual on LVM is pretty good for covering the theory. |
| 01:42.37 | rander2 | apt-get install crypt-setup give me error |
| 01:42.40 | maxtim | It's actually very good. once you mess with it enough |
| 01:43.56 | dvs | bah! |
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| 01:44.48 | jmcnaught | rander2: "apt search cryptsetup" there is more than one package, read the descriptions with e.g. "apt show cryptsetup-initramfs" |
| 01:45.27 | samantaz | dvs: regarding mirrors, can you please do a line count (wc -l) on your "indices/files/arch-amd64.files" file? |
| 01:45.50 | samantaz | And also a 'find | wc -l' on your pool folder |
| 01:45.51 | jmcnaught | A couple of months ago I switched SSDs and after manually dealing with /boot and /boot/efi moving everything else was handled by pvmove |
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| 01:47.49 | dvs | samantaz: my pool folder has more than amd64 so that won't do any good. |
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| 01:50.32 | dvs | samantaz: I can't find a arch-amd64.file. At least not in /var/spool/apt-mirrors. |
| 01:50.37 | samantaz | dvs: Ah, well.... |
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| 01:51.19 | samantaz | dvs: next to your "pool" folder, you don't have "indices"? |
| 01:51.47 | samantaz | and also, how do you know that your amd repo is 80G, then? |
| 01:52.06 | dvs | samantaz: nope, I only have "dists" and "pool" |
| 01:52.45 | samantaz | What are you using to mirror? |
| 01:52.56 | dvs | samantaz: I know it's 80GB because that's what apt-mirror says when it downloads the repo from scratch. |
| 01:53.22 | samantaz | mmmh, I see |
| 01:53.58 | samantaz | So, it may be possible that the mirror I use as a source has not cleaned up in a long time |
| 01:54.12 | samantaz | And hence, I'm copying all their crap with ftpsync |
| 01:54.49 | dvs | I like apt-mirror because it leaves me with a useable Debian repo. |
| 01:55.42 | rander2 | is it possible recover luks's password from os debian ? a intruder could recover the password? |
| 01:56.24 | dvs | rander2: an intruder could "recover" the password via brute force. |
| 01:56.51 | rander2 | dvs, where is the hash ? |
| 01:57.00 | dvs | dunno |
| 01:57.13 | samantaz | rander2: on the disk xD |
| 01:57.23 | rander2 | dvs, brute force of a hash password or brute force on data? |
| 01:57.26 | dvs | !lart samantaz |
| 01:57.26 | dpkg | holds samantaz to the floor and spanks him with a cat-o-nine-tails |
| 01:58.06 | samantaz | dpkg: s/him/her/, you stupid bot |
| 01:58.06 | dpkg | samantaz: have you tried http://www.tldp.org/ ? |
| 01:58.14 | samantaz | Oh shush |
| 01:58.17 | dvs | rander2: I'm not sure if the password is stored in a hash. |
| 01:59.11 | rander2 | passwords are even stored as hash, sha sha256 ... |
| 02:00.10 | samantaz | rander2: it'd more likely be bcrypt or something stronger. SHA or MD5 hashes are not made for that purpose. |
| 02:02.03 | rander2 | md5 no, sha is better. if the hash have a slow computative time is better |
| 02:03.31 | samantaz | no, bcrypt is better. |
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| 02:04.25 | samantaz | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bcrypt |
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| 02:28.45 | samantaz | Uh....... |
| 02:28.58 | samantaz | Tracker links to VCS are broken |
| 02:29.12 | samantaz | https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/apt-mirror links to https://anonscm.debian.org/git/collab-maint/apt-mirror.git |
| 02:29.27 | samantaz | Same goes for https://sources.debian.org |
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| 02:39.51 | freem | maxtim: I use gparted, too. |
| 02:41.33 | freem | but I got an excuse, I'm not a sysadmin, I'm a dev which still need to learn a lot and is soooo lazy |
| 02:43.04 | sney | samantaz: that package has an old Vcs-Git/Vcs-Browser entry, tracker is just parsing it. it looks like the actual source is here https://github.com/apt-mirror/apt-mirror |
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| 02:44.34 | sney | collab-maint was hosted on alioth, which went offline in 2018. there are probably quite a few packages still referencing it, particularly ones in a RFH state like this |
| 02:45.05 | freem | forgive me, my input was just noise |
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| 02:46.35 | samantaz | sney: Oh, okay, that's why! |
| 02:47.03 | samantaz | I wish I could offer a lot of time to maintain those packages and whatnot |
| 02:48.32 | freem | samantaz: if wishes were enough, the world would be whatever paradise whatever individual wish it to be, all at the same time |
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| 02:49.01 | freem | we can only do the best we can, and never be satisfied with it |
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| 02:49.42 | sney | there's a bit of a time investment for getting a package set up in the archive and getting used to the tools/workflows, but once it's going, involvement can be pretty minimal. if you have a free week or two now, and can commit to like an hour a month after that, package maintenance might be for you! |
| 02:51.20 | freem | sney: why is there "a bit of a time investment for getting a package set up"? |
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| 02:53.29 | freem | I mean, learning is needed, sure, but it seems that learning to contribute to debian is harder than average? |
| 02:54.03 | freem | that's... just what I read through the internet tbh |
| 02:54.09 | sney | in short, because debian has standards. you can't just run a tarball from upstream through some scripts and be done with it, there are steps that need to be addresssed manually by the package maintainer, mostly to do with licenses and software policies |
| 02:54.27 | freem | that, it's okay |
| 02:54.38 | freem | I enjoy debian because of that |
| 02:54.44 | sney | and since debian has been around a long time and established most of these procedures 10+ years ago, there's a learning curve for devs who grew up in the git ecosystem |
| 02:55.44 | freem | why do you mention git, here? |
| 02:56.12 | freem | because debian is older than git, and thushave history? |
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| 02:57.13 | sney | more or less |
| 02:57.19 | freem | (that's a positive argument tbhà |
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| 02:59.08 | freem | I have used debian since long, but am now at a point it no longer meets my wishes. I would like to propose alternate packages the same quality |
| 02:59.50 | freem | I obviously need to learn, but where to start? |
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| 03:00.50 | sney | !nmg |
| 03:00.50 | dpkg | The packaging tutorial (https://deb.li/QYyI) and the New Maintainer's Guide (https://deb.li/3DiDA) are good places to start learning about Debian packaging. You should also ask me about <devref> and <policy> to understand how packages should be maintained and how they should interact with each other. Ask me about <package basics>, <mentors>, <best practices> <build without helper>. https://www.debian.org/devel/ |
| 03:00.58 | freem | t |
| 03:00.59 | freem | ty |
| 03:01.30 | sney | #debian-mentors on OFTC (note, right now you are on freenode) is also an excellent resource. |
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| 03:01.55 | freem | last time I checked, OFTC refused me to talk |
| 03:02.20 | freem | or at least, #debian there refused it |
| 03:02.30 | freem | spam security, ofc |
| 03:02.30 | sney | you probably just needed to register. but it's best to join -mentors after you have done some reading and started work on a package anyway. |
| 03:03.35 | freem | do you know if my runit scripts would be acceptable? |
| 03:04.39 | freem | I mean, I use those myself, since ... well, few years now, and have noticed there's a runit effort in debian, so I might just help |
| 03:05.10 | freem | nvm will read the doc |
| 03:08.08 | freem | huh |
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| 03:08.52 | freem | sney: do you really think one must read all those things before being helpful? |
| 03:10.44 | sney | freem: when I got started maintaining my first package, I read a bunch of the new maintainer's guide, then started work, with the NMG open in a tab, and kept referring back to it as I figured out the process. |
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| 03:11.14 | freem | I see |
| 03:11.19 | sney | some people do it differently, I'm sure you have your own learning process. no you do not have to memorize 1000s of pages before helping. |
| 03:12.59 | freem | well, some of the readings will be needed anyway |
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| 03:54.37 | urk | Whats the exact name for the Debian Social channel? I keep forgetting. |
| 03:55.02 | sney | it's the one listed as offtopic in the topic |
| 03:55.53 | urk | I was trying to join which is why I am asking. |
| 03:56.20 | sney | it's the one listed as "offtopic:" in the #debian topic. look up |
| 03:56.20 | urk | You can page me privately with the name if its a dark secret :) |
| 03:57.55 | urk | Switching subjects, I tried the lspci -vvvnn and don't see the name of the driver on my laptop. Am I missing something? |
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| 03:58.32 | sney | -k is the switch that shows the kernel driver |
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| 04:01.49 | urk | sney> Thanks, that helps a lot. 10.8.0, and 10.7.0 stable release installers don't install on the fly, and there is a lot of tweaking that has to be done. Also, I found 10.8.0 won't install if the first partition is formatted EFI. I deleted the partition and there was no problem. |
| 04:01.51 | sney | which you could find out yourself by looking at 'man lspci', rather than spamming vvv nnnn and hoping to magically get the reight result |
| 04:02.38 | urk | Someone else on here suggested the -vvvnn parameter, and I wasn't aware of the capability of the lspci to know that a man review was needed. |
| 04:03.09 | sney | always look at the man page when you don't know how to make the command do what you want. that's what it's for. |
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| 04:09.27 | urk | drivers for the network card are definitely not in the stable releases of 10.8.0, and 10.7.0 I am going to check backports. Driver seems to be nvme. |
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| 04:10.55 | dvs | wireless card? not in the normal installer. |
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| 04:15.35 | urk | dvs> nvme is definitely not in backports. So far only the testing release will install on this laptop. I am making a decision now to install testing 10.8.0 in the first gpt partition I created, delete the 2nd partition, and send a message to the maintainers of backports to see if I can get them to add some drivers for the Dell XPS 15 7590. The laptop has been out for two years already, and support for it is minimal. Both Intel, and |
| 04:15.35 | urk | Dell have not posted the drivers on their website, and I find this frustrating, but i have spent enough time on the problem so Testing release is the way i will go. |
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| 04:16.50 | urk | dvs> Wireless card is definitely not in the installer. |
| 04:17.08 | dvs | urk: NVMe would be part of the kernel, not a package in backports. |
| 04:18.11 | dvs | well, unless it's the backported kernel ;-P |
| 04:18.17 | urk | dvs> I just ran lspci -k again, and it says the Network controller: Intel Corp Device 2723 (rev 1a). |
| 04:18.55 | urk | dvs> You are right, and I was just about to correct myself on that. |
| 04:20.21 | urk | I am trying to deciper what is on my screen. I am not sure the driver name for the network card is even being displayed. |
| 04:21.30 | ectospasm | urk: if a driver is loaded you'll see the string "Kernel driver in use: <module name>" |
| 04:21.43 | ectospasm | If the module isn't loaded, it won't have that line. |
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| 04:21.59 | urk | ectospasm> I think it might be xhci_hcd |
| 04:22.17 | ectospasm | that's not a network card driver. |
| 04:22.29 | ectospasm | that's for USB |
| 04:22.30 | ectospasm | IIRC |
| 04:22.32 | urk | Regardless, its not in the list of drivers in the installer. I am now going to check the list on Github. |
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| 04:23.56 | urk | ectospasm> Are you sure? Underneath that kernel driver is a Kernel Modules: xhci_pci. Isn't the xhci_pci for USB instead? |
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| 04:24.38 | velix | Hmm... When ever I install docker, I'm getting an application, which informs me, which services need a reboot after update. Which package is this? |
| 04:24.38 | sney | sometimes when a device is too new for the running kernel, you'll get a nonsense result like that |
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| 04:25.05 | sney | velix: needrestart |
| 04:25.12 | velix | sney: ... really? ;) |
| 04:25.19 | sney | ,i needrestart |
| 04:25.24 | judd | Package needrestart (admin, optional) in buster/amd64: check which daemons need to be restarted after library upgrades. Version: 3.4-5; Size: 56.0k; Installed: 273k; Homepage: https://github.com/liske/needrestart; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/needrestart |
| 04:25.30 | velix | Nice name ;) totally fits. |
| 04:25.33 | velix | sney: thanks |
| 04:25.36 | dvs | restarts sney |
| 04:25.37 | sney | np |
| 04:25.41 | ectospasm | TIL: needrestart |
| 04:25.52 | ectospasm | I wrote my own shell function to determine that. |
| 04:26.11 | urk | ectospams> Earlier you indicated I will see the string "Kernel driver in use: <module name>. Where would I see this? After doing lspci -k? |
| 04:26.30 | sney | for best non-annoying results, disable the NEEDRESTART_SESSION part so it doesn't pop up a gui window yelling at you to log out |
| 04:27.26 | ectospasm | urk: yeah, that's part of the lspci -k output. |
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| 04:27.57 | ectospasm | You can also do lspci -kd <device number>, which are the leading numbers before a PCI device in the output. |
| 04:28.16 | ectospasm | That way you can limit it to just the device you're interested in. |
| 04:28.29 | ectospasm | That line won't exist if there isn't a module loaded for that device. |
| 04:29.18 | urk | ectospams> ectospasm its not loaded, but if I install Testing i should be able to pull it up. |
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| 04:48.10 | jmcnaught | urk: what does "lspci -knn | grep -A 3 Wireless" say? |
| 04:53.05 | urk | jmcnaught> It says invalid option -A Incidentally I am no longer detected in the testing release. |
| 04:54.26 | jmcnaught | urk: you typed it wrong? |
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| 04:56.11 | urk | I typed lspci -knn | grep -A 3 Wireless |
| 04:56.46 | urk | jmcnaught> Am I correct that if the driver isnt loaded lscpi wouldn't pick it up anyway? |
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| 04:57.41 | jmcnaught | urk: lspci would still see a PCI device. Try "lspci -kd ::0280" |
| 04:59.22 | urk | It says Network Controller: Intel Corporation Device 2723 (rev 1a) And the next line says "Subsystem: Bigfoot Networks, Inc. Device 1654. This I already had. |
| 04:59.44 | urk | I don't have the name of the driver which would indicate it is being used if it was loaded. |
| 05:00.50 | sney | if it's intel wifi, the driver is iwlwifi. |
| 05:02.05 | urk | sney> Well, I selected the driver, and it isn't detecting. |
| 05:02.30 | sney | iwlwifi needs firmware, do you have the firmware installed? |
| 05:03.30 | urk | sney> Not sure. |
| 05:04.12 | sney | !iwlwifi firmware |
| 05:04.33 | sney | !iwlwifi |
| 05:04.33 | dpkg | The iwlwifi Linux kernel driver supports several Intel 802.11n (WiFi Link, Wireless-N, Advanced-N, Ultimate-N) and 802.11ac adapters. Firmware is required, ask me about <non-free sources> and install the firmware-iwlwifi package to provide. Supported devices and troubleshooting hints are listed at https://wiki.debian.org/iwlwifi . See also <iwlegacy>, <iwl7000>. |
| 05:05.02 | urk | I believe I have 802.11a-x |
| 05:05.34 | jmcnaught | I would install a kernel, firmware-iwlwifi, and firmware-misc-nonfree from buster-backports copied by USB stick from another computer if you have no networking at all. |
| 05:05.40 | sney | the factoid might be slightly outdated, focus on the rest of the message |
| 05:06.14 | jmcnaught | Kernel: https://packages.debian.org/buster-backports/linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.3-amd64 firmware-iwlwifi: https://packages.debian.org/buster-backports/firmware-iwlwifi firmware-misc-nonfree: https://packages.debian.org/buster-backports/firmware-misc-nonfree |
| 05:07.16 | urk | jmcnaught> Thanks, I have no networking at all. |
| 05:07.50 | urk | At one point the Testing disk did bring up the network, but not sure what happened. This was the 10.8.0 non-free testing hybrid. |
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| 05:08.08 | sney | there is no such thing as "10.8.0 testing" |
| 05:08.34 | sney | but yes, the image with non-free, aka the firmware image, includes the non-free firmware files needed to support most wifi drivers. |
| 05:10.34 | urk | sney> Thank you for correcting me. I had the distribution number wrong. I see a file called firmware-linux-free https://packages.debian.org/buster-backports/linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.3-amd64 Is this the right one? |
| 05:10.53 | sney | your link doesn't even match your question |
| 05:11.09 | jmcnaught | urk: look at the bottom of each of my links for the download section. |
| 05:11.10 | sney | slow down and actually read things |
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| 05:11.36 | jaggz | what's the debian nvidia channel? |
| 05:11.40 | jaggz | (is there one specific to it?) |
| 05:11.48 | sney | jaggz: for support questions, here is fine |
| 05:13.35 | jaggz | sney, thanks :) |
| 05:13.41 | urk | jmcnaught> No fimrware-iwlwifi here https://packages.debian.org/buster-backports/amd64/linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.3-amd64/filelist |
| 05:14.02 | jmcnaught | urk: I gave you three links. Each one has its own download section. |
| 05:14.57 | jmcnaught | The actual link to download the .deb file is in the download section's table under "architecture" it will either be amd64 (for the kernel) or all (for the firmware packages). |
| 05:14.57 | jaggz | actually I was getting an error running nvidia-settings, but when running it a second time it worked, so nevermind that. |
| 05:15.04 | urk | Nor did I find it here https://packages.debian.org/buster-backports/all/firmware-misc-nonfree/filelist |
| 05:15.33 | jmcnaught | urk: don't click on [list of files] look for the link to the left of that. |
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| 05:16.50 | urk | jmcnaught> The link to the left has the names of the network repositories where the file list is located at, and not a name of the firmware you elude to. |
| 05:17.03 | urk | https://packages.debian.org/buster-backports/all/firmware-misc-nonfree/download |
| 05:17.15 | sney | urk: have you tried clicking one of those links? you may be surprised by the result. |
| 05:17.19 | jmcnaught | those are the mirrors you can download the package from, click one |
| 05:18.00 | urk | You mean the repository locations? |
| 05:18.57 | jmcnaught | http://http.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/l/linux-signed-amd64/linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.3-amd64_5.10.13-1~bpo10+1_amd64.deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/pool/non-free/f/firmware-nonfree/firmware-iwlwifi_20200918-1~bpo10+1_all.deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/pool/non-free/f/firmware-nonfree/firmware-misc-nonfree_20200918-1~bpo10+1_all.deb |
| 05:19.07 | urk | Whats in those repositories is in the lists and the lists indicates the firmware you mention is not there. |
| 05:19.18 | jmcnaught | urk: ^^^ those are three links directly to the .deb files that you need, download them and copy them to a USB stick |
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| 05:22.29 | jaggz | I'm having another issue: I can't find a way to clone the displays and have one scale to match the primary |
| 05:22.40 | jaggz | (they are different aspect ratios) |
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| 05:25.40 | urk | For some reason I am having trouble downloading the file in the last link. |
| 05:26.14 | jmcnaught | What happens when you try? |
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| 05:28.22 | urk | The save button wouldn't activate. I finally got it saved to the Downloads folder on an older 32-bit laptop, and will copy it tomorrow to my USB. Need to sign off. Its getting late. Thanks for all of your help. |
| 05:29.12 | jmcnaught | Good night urk. |
| 05:29.40 | urk | jmcnaught> Just got an error message that the file in the 2nd and 3rd link is the same. |
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| 05:30.22 | jmcnaught | urk: well they're not, so maybe copy those three links to a text file so you can take a closer look at them, and try them again tomorrow. |
| 05:30.32 | urk | ok. Thanks. |
| 05:32.16 | sney | urk has been trying to negotiate their way out of "hardware too new for buster" for like a week. the dedication is kind of admirable, if nothing else |
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| 05:35.00 | jmcnaught | It forced me to find a way to lspci just the wifi card without piping to grep, not sure if it would work with all wifi cards though: "lspci -d ::0280" which selects by device class. |
| 05:36.42 | jmcnaught | According to https://pci-ids.ucw.cz/read/PD/02 '0280' is "network controller - network controller". There is also https://pci-ids.ucw.cz/read/PD/0d but none of those listed my laptop's wifi. |
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| 06:22.28 | Ganonk | hello |
| 06:22.45 | alex11 | hello Ganonk |
| 06:23.34 | Ganonk | just ask : how to add repo of backbox linux? is possible? |
| 06:23.47 | alex11 | !frankendebian |
| 06:23.47 | dpkg | When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall> |
| 06:23.52 | alex11 | most likely not recommended |
| 06:24.12 | Ganonk | thanks you |
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| 06:28.53 | jmcnaught | I went to the website for this Back Box Linux with noscript and umatrix blocking all javascript and third-party requests, and it had an advertisement for "need paper written?" I would avoid and use Debian instead. |
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| 07:49.24 | Bsims | hi just wanted to say thanks. I've been running Debian for twenty years now |
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| 07:50.23 | jaggz | you're welcome |
| 07:51.00 | Bsims | I installed Testing back before Potato |
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| 07:53.28 | Bsims | I disagree with systemd but it now works. |
| 07:55.42 | diogenes_ | dselect, so Debian runs reliably until the hardware dies? |
| 07:55.42 | dselect | diogenes_: I don't know, could you explain it? |
| 07:56.09 | diogenes_ | oops <Bsims> ^^^ |
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| 07:58.06 | Bsims | heh I am on several updates, but never had to reinstall |
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| 08:08.33 | craigevil | diogenes, pretty much. I had a thinkpad i bought back in '99, it ran debian sid reliably until it died just a couple yrs ago |
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| 08:29.05 | diogenes_ | creat, no wonder because linux is even on Mars now :) |
| 08:29.25 | diogenes_ | craigevil, ^^ |
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| 08:44.52 | yibotg | Hi I upgrade the qbittorent in 10.8,and found the qbittorent is crashed when I add a new torrent or launch the qbittorent.In Github,I found the same issue,but somebody said because the qbittorent and qt is out of date.I want to know whether the following upgrade can solve the problem?how to solve the problem manually?Thank you! |
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| 10:22.43 | shtrb | diogenes_, just imaging if there had been systemd on mars :D |
| 10:23.43 | ratrace | it'd probably fare better than if openrc was on mars! "Sir, the rover stopped responding because the service manager isn't restarting failed servicdes. It's gone, sir." |
| 10:24.13 | diogenes_ | shtrb, it would be the first flamewar on Mars ) |
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| 10:36.07 | shtrb | ratrace, sir the rover is stuck because systemd is failing to bring up networking target (just do sysrq sub try and wait again) |
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| 10:53.14 | ratrace | shtrb: properly configured units wouldn't fail :) |
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| 10:57.59 | shtrb | ratrace, ufw and hostname should be properly configured, but systemd still will block (with hostname it will truly fail , ufw has no limit and will just block your boot forever) |
| 10:58.33 | shtrb | I'm speaking from experience , still trying to find a way to solve the annoying problem of failure to bring networking target up |
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| 11:03.00 | ratrace | shtrb: that's not systemd's fault, those units weren't written by systemd devs, but by those package devs and/or maintainers. |
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| 11:03.21 | ratrace | most of problems that occur with systemd can be attributed to bad distro defaults or poorly written unit. |
| 11:04.23 | ratrace | (however, I was just half-joking about systemd on Mars. YES, absolutely, software in such dedicated tasks should be as MINIMAL as possible with least moving parts and most probability of idempotent reconfiguration and restart on failure) |
| 11:05.02 | ratrace | I do like the features of systemd but no, I'd never trust it in such highly critical environments where you can't walk over to the rover and reboot it |
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| 11:09.06 | ratrace | (I wouldn't trust even openrc btw, it's too buggy for my taste; I'd probably write a custom service manager that's just for hat purpose and doesn't need to cover all the possible use cases of a generic init/process manager) |
| 11:09.15 | ratrace | *that |
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| 12:08.23 | shtrb | ratrace had implied that debian have bad default :P |
| 12:08.51 | shtrb | s/debian/debian stable/g |
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| 12:10.59 | ratrace | "bad distro defaults" = default configs of unit files :) |
| 12:11.10 | shtrb | speaking of systemd is there any way to setup some keyboard shortcut that If I would press it will fallback to /bin/sh ? |
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| 12:14.06 | ratrace | _what_ would fallback to /bin/sh ? |
| 12:14.25 | ratrace | and define "fallback" |
| 12:14.30 | shtrb | stop the process of loading units and give me shell |
| 12:15.19 | shtrb | That would allow me to get a shell on a problamtic boot and not one where I pass an init afrument to grub |
| 12:17.10 | ratrace | I don't think systemd has that functionality and I don't think such a functionality would make sense or be possible because you can't guarantee shell availability at any point in the boot process |
| 12:17.42 | ratrace | maybe when systemd implements systemd-initramfsd(5) |
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| 12:18.38 | shtrb | my actual use case is with it failing to bring the networking target, and I wish to be able to debug it better when it happen |
| 12:19.09 | fourstepper | Hi, does anyone here use Greenbone Vulnerability Manager? Do you build from source or do you something like sid and the official packages from the repos? |
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| 12:23.56 | ratrace | shtrb: hrm, actually there could be a way to force "emergency mode" as it already can do it when _it_ decides so |
| 12:24.14 | shtrb | how ? |
| 12:25.10 | ratrace | shtrb: trying to figure that out. but the possibility _is_ there I suppose, even if it doesn't have the ability to do it today; patches welcome yadda yadda yadda |
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| 12:25.52 | ratrace | you can force it preemptively, via command line, setting systemd.unit to rescue.target but that must be done in advance |
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| 12:26.50 | shtrb | that doesn't help , but thank you |
| 12:27.24 | ratrace | yeah it's not the same as being able to hit ctrl-c or something during boot |
| 12:28.23 | ratrace | shtrb: oh look at this: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/544000/systemd-how-to-stop-a-start-job-without-limit |
| 12:28.26 | ratrace | debug-shell.service |
| 12:28.57 | ratrace | ctrl+alt+f9 |
| 12:29.04 | shtrb | facepalm |
| 12:29.05 | shtrb | thank you ! |
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| 12:30.08 | ratrace | yeah I didn't know about that until now |
| 12:31.16 | shtrb | The nasty problem with my problem , is that ufw issue is not permenant it comes and goes, sometimes will not hapen for days and sometimes would happen several time in a row |
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| 13:11.46 | ratrace | shtrb: ufw is shite anyway.... if you want higher level firewall, shorewall ftw |
| 13:12.49 | shtrb | thanks |
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| 13:16.58 | ratrace | my love affair with ufw shattered minutes after trying to use it when I realized that ufw "all denied by default" is not ..... all denied by default, but the default implies you maybe kinda wanted dhcp and samba and whatever the eff was it else there so the fire "wall" was actually a fire "collander", holey as eff, swiss cheeze has nothing on it. |
| 13:17.26 | shtrb | :D |
| 13:17.33 | shtrb | good point |
| 13:17.39 | ratrace | and it wasn't obvious how to patch those holes up, there was some default rules something something you had to hunt down and close up |
| 13:18.41 | ratrace | a proper "deny all" policy must be of the "bruh, careful or you're shuttered outside of your system, nowai in" persuasion |
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| 13:22.52 | cyveris | ufw does not and has never allowed samba traffic by default, what are you talking about? |
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| 13:52.24 | disgrntld | hey guys, I had an old wheezy install with separate /home and / (root) partitions. I replaced my root partition with a fresh debian10 install (intending to reuse my old /home partition) but I ended up with my new /home dir on my root partition... halp! |
| 13:53.36 | disgrntld | my new debian 10 install (root and the new home directory) is on /dev/sda1, the home directory I want is on /dev/sda3 |
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| 13:54.23 | disgrntld | reinstalling is not a problem if I need to |
| 14:02.04 | MegaCarp | debian 10 xfce xarchiver v0.5.4.14 - can't properly unpack .rar files: can see their list, can unpack that list but it opens with pad app - and empty. paste: http://paste.debian.net/hidden/e08ca3d5/ intalling unrar-free actually makes the situation worse - now I can't even list rar's contents. 7z x *.rar works perfectly normally - unpacks it no problem. this is not limited to this specific archive. |
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| 14:03.14 | EdePopede | disgrntld: move/copy the content of /home to sda3 (top level, not inside a /home on that partition), tell fstab to mount sda3 into /home. then also mount it manually if you don't want to reboot, which isn't necessary. BUT: logout as user, do this as root. |
| 14:03.40 | disgrntld | ok, thanks |
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| 14:07.37 | EdePopede | MegaCarp: for some reason i have unrar installed (both free and non-free), the alternative pointing to non-free. i think free couldn't handle some archive so i added non-free also. still on 9 btw. |
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| 14:17.54 | MegaCarp | EdoPopede: just to clarify - you can unpack .rars no problem? rar "non free" is in the non free repo, right? |
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| 14:27.31 | milkt | what is recommended ntp poll interval? or what interval value you all using? |
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| 14:32.26 | D4ydr34m3r | k |
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| 14:33.06 | koollman | milkt: I let ntpd do its own thing |
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| 14:34.58 | D4ydr34m3r | k |
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| 14:36.19 | milkt | seem ntpd default is minimum 64s maximum 1024s |
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| 14:36.49 | d4ydr34m | m |
| 14:37.08 | milkt | and timesyncd default is minimum 32s and maximum 2048s |
| 14:37.34 | milkt | just thinking that 64s or 32s interval is quite overkill |
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| 14:37.56 | milkt | and not sure about how it choosing interval between minimum and maximum value |
| 14:38.40 | n4dir | belongs in the same group as koollman does. |
| 14:39.16 | ratrace | milkt: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/24173726/how-does-ntp-calculates-its-next-polling-interval |
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| 14:41.24 | milkt | ratrace: thank you, that solved my curiosity |
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| 14:42.23 | milkt | by the way, i am using systemd-timesyncd instead of ntpd though, is there any difference about these two in general user? |
| 14:43.03 | ratrace | milkt: timesyncd is a bit less precise but that's irrelevant for vast majority of users |
| 14:43.12 | milkt | got it, thanks |
| 14:43.25 | ratrace | ie... you shouldn't base automated nanosecond trading at your local NASDAQ API using timesyncd |
| 14:43.38 | ratrace | for all other use cases, it's "good enough" :) |
| 14:44.14 | koollman | if nanoseconds matter, you probably don't want just a basic ntpd conf either. or kernel conf :) |
| 14:44.31 | ratrace | probably |
| 14:44.43 | milkt | i see |
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| 14:44.53 | ratrace | you want stratum 1 on that machine's pci lanes :) |
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| 14:45.03 | ratrace | or was it 0 |
| 14:45.14 | d4ydr34m_ | k |
| 14:45.16 | jhutchins | .\ |
| 14:45.50 | koollman | 0 for ref atomic clock |
| 14:45.57 | ratrace | yeah 0 then |
| 14:46.29 | milkt | for me?, or for device which need nanosecond precision? |
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| 14:46.35 | d4ydr34m | , |
| 14:46.42 | ratrace | milkt: for nanosecond precision :) |
| 14:46.56 | milkt | got it |
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| 14:48.06 | ratrace | systemd-timesyncd used to log periodically sync status, and in that info one could see the precision from the re-adjustments back toward ref clock. but that got removed from timesyncd and frankly I'm not sure how to get that info any more |
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| 14:48.47 | d4ydr34m_ | l |
| 14:49.38 | ratrace | d4ydr34m_: hello and welcome to #debian support channel. how may we help you. |
| 14:50.28 | ratrace | ah .... timedatectl timesync-status [--monitor] will show the offset |
| 14:51.08 | ratrace | seems between 1-2 msec on a few servers I checked . k, so if oyu need sub milisecond precision, timesyncd is not for you |
| 14:51.38 | milkt | got it, i'll try configuring ntp again i guess |
| 14:51.57 | milkt | just using timesyncd since i failed configuring ntp last time and have not touched it |
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| 14:52.00 | d4ydr34m | k |
| 14:52.45 | koollman | milkt: there isn't that much to configure in a debian default ntpd config, really. it's expected to work unless you need to adjust for network filtering rules |
| 14:53.01 | ratrace | milkt: if I may recommend openntpd. it's simler than ntpd (isn't also a server), and there's the possibility of confining via a https source but iirc that required libressl so isn't available on debian without recompiling |
| 14:53.33 | ratrace | milkt: actually, I'd recommend systemd-timesyncd as it's more than good enough for most use cases, but if you really want ntpd, try out openntpd |
| 14:54.20 | milkt | thank you all, last time i tried using ntp was ... eh around when i used linux for first time, should be easier now |
| 14:54.51 | milkt | i will at least go to learn how to configure ntpd and openntpd |
| 14:55.02 | koollman | I do not recommend openntpd. they are very opinionated about things. if you want a non-standard ntpd implementation, try chronyd. At least the deviations have reasonable justification |
| 14:55.34 | koollman | but, hey, if you type 'date' and your within a second of expected time ... whatever you use is good enough :) |
| 14:56.36 | *** join/#debian adming (~admin@unaffiliated/zeroed) |
| 14:56.41 | Kobaz | having a weird issue. ksoftirqd/3 is sucking up 100% cpu and the machine is quite slow |
| 14:56.52 | koollman | Kobaz: real machine, or vm ? |
| 14:57.37 | Kobaz | vm |
| 14:59.43 | *** join/#debian filohuhum (~filohuhum@gateway/tor-sasl/filohuhum) |
| 15:01.06 | Kobaz | firewall went completely insane and had like 500k rules in it |
| 15:01.20 | ratrace | koollman: openbsd are opinionated yes, and some things like libressl is a joke but openntpd is one of few tools (like openssh) that's useful |
| 15:02.20 | *** join/#debian TheBigK (~quassel@2a02:908:2226:21e0:dea6:32ff:fe28:f5ff) |
| 15:02.27 | *** join/#debian toorop (~toorop@unaffiliated/toorop) |
| 15:02.36 | ratrace | koollman: what hypervisor, what cpu model, and what's firewall got to do with irq handler? |
| 15:03.19 | koollman | (wrong K :) ) |
| 15:04.07 | ratrace | indeed, sorry :) |
| 15:04.12 | ratrace | Kobaz: what hypervisor, what cpu model, and what's firewall got to do with irq handler? |
| 15:04.34 | ratrace | damn y'all if I have to hit 3 (three!!) keys before le tab! :) |
| 15:04.42 | Kobaz | ratrace: networking |
| 15:05.05 | ratrace | social networking? |
| 15:05.08 | koollman | https://chrony.tuxfamily.org/comparison.html obviously biased toward chrony there, but useful to compare ntpd and openntpd. It's not 'bad', but I don't think it's a good alternative |
| 15:05.09 | Kobaz | ratrace: iptables -F, fixed it, and then i just restarted the firewall and put the rules back in |
| 15:05.33 | Kobaz | ratrace: anything network related is interrupt driven |
| 15:05.58 | *** join/#debian shibboleth (~shibbolet@gateway/tor-sasl/shibboleth) |
| 15:06.20 | ratrace | Kobaz: I know but: A) that doesn't answer my question at all and B) again, what do firewall rules have to do with interrupts. |
| 15:06.40 | Kobaz | that, i don't know specifically, but it was the cause of my issue |
| 15:06.57 | Kobaz | I have a whitelist table, with, for example, 500 hosts in it (i really should convert this to a hash hookup) |
| 15:07.14 | Kobaz | and then our automatic firewall engine was continually adding jumps to the whitelist table |
| 15:07.15 | ratrace | Kobaz: are you using ipsets? |
| 15:07.27 | Kobaz | ratrace: not currently |
| 15:07.44 | ratrace | then you most definitely should if you intend to store thousands of IPs, let alone 500k, in a lookup table |
| 15:07.45 | Kobaz | (and other tables, each with a lot of rules) |
| 15:07.53 | Kobaz | 500k was NOT supposed to happen |
| 15:08.01 | *** join/#debian ChmEarl (~chmearl@unaffiliated/prymar56) |
| 15:08.14 | Kobaz | basically it was looping on adding that it thought were missing rulesets. so it added 5 jumps to large tables, 500k times |
| 15:08.26 | ratrace | oof |
| 15:08.38 | Kobaz | 5x -J large-table... 500k times |
| 15:08.48 | Kobaz | and that caused huge networking overhead and was killing the machine |
| 15:09.09 | ratrace | now I'm curious how's packet filtering causing all those interrupts |
| 15:09.13 | Kobaz | the soft interupts maxing out was probably just a side effect of the machine trying to balance things out |
| 15:09.19 | *** join/#debian Karnos (~Karnos@181.191.9.153) |
| 15:09.26 | ratrace | is there an offload going on to the (v)NIC perhaps? is it virtio-net? |
| 15:09.30 | Kobaz | the soft interrupt handler is supposed to lower the overall load |
| 15:09.45 | Kobaz | yeah, virtio_net |
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| 15:11.17 | ratrace | koollman: chrony looks like a feature packed behemoth like ntp .... I'd take 92kB of "just sync my time pls as best as you can using ntp spec" any day over that :) |
| 15:11.37 | koollman | ratrace: "using ntp spec" is the debattable part :) |
| 15:12.00 | Kobaz | if you want lean and mean just use rdate |
| 15:12.01 | ratrace | "keep my time within few msec of reference" is the part of teh debate I'm most interested in ;) |
| 15:12.47 | Kobaz | https://hackaday.com/2012/03/24/make-your-own-atomic-clock/ |
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| 15:14.37 | ratrace | %s/Make your own atomic clock/Make your own radio based atomic clock DCF77 receiver/ |
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| 15:18.32 | jhutchins | So dpkg is totally down? |
| 15:18.47 | jhutchins | %ping |
| 15:18.47 | dselect | pong |
| 15:19.11 | jhutchins | %pine64 |
| 15:19.42 | ratrace | dpkg: ping |
| 15:19.42 | dpkg | pong |
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| 15:20.15 | Kobaz | ratrace: true, but. it would be cool to use that as an ntp source |
| 15:20.24 | Kobaz | like a backup ntp source |
| 15:20.45 | ratrace | it would. except in the solar flare season :) |
| 15:24.18 | *** join/#debian Lope (~lope@102.132.244.246) |
| 15:24.32 | Lope | what do I need to install to use OpenCL on a AMD GPU in Debian? |
| 15:25.56 | ratrace | Lope: did you ask the Planetary AI? |
| 15:26.05 | ratrace | https://linuxconfig.org/install-opencl-for-the-amdgpu-open-source-drivers-on-debian-and-ubuntu |
| 15:26.38 | Lope | you're the best bro, I've been searching and searching |
| 15:27.51 | Lope | ratrace, "... AMD decided to make this as unnecessarily difficult as possible and locked newer packages to fail unless being installed on a supported Ubuntu release, so you're going to need an older release which you can find in the release notes for that release..." |
| 15:28.05 | Lope | surely the situation with an AMD GPU on debian can't be so terrible? |
| 15:28.15 | Lope | AMD is supposed to be the *GOOD* Linux experience. |
| 15:28.26 | Lope | vs nvidia |
| 15:28.38 | ratrace | it used to be even worse. then few years ago they open sourced amdgpu and everyone was, like, whoa! but apparently that's just an illusion |
| 15:29.08 | *** join/#debian lazywalker (~lazywalke@unaffiliated/lazywalker) |
| 15:29.21 | ratrace | nvidia has always JustWorked(tm) unless you tried to use the Transformers setup, and sans occasional hiccup; their corrupted business practices aside. |
| 15:29.21 | Lope | ratrace, this article is from 2017? How can it be so bad? https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/release-notes/rn-prorad-lin-amdgpupro |
| 15:29.23 | *** join/#debian ml| (~ml|@unaffiliated/ml/x-3958674) |
| 15:29.50 | ratrace | AMD softwares suck even on windows, mind you |
| 15:30.17 | ratrace | biggest reason I'm staying away from it, even though I'd _love_ to give nvidia the middle finger and spend big bucks elsewhere |
| 15:30.40 | shtrb | can anyone help me decypher what http://paste.debian.net/1187346/ error means ? |
| 15:30.45 | ratrace | but hell..... PlayingGames > MiddleFingeringNvidia. thus, rtx30 will be bought |
| 15:30.55 | Lope | But Wendell from Level1Techs says the sun shines out of AMD's GPU's asses. |
| 15:31.01 | *** join/#debian urk (~user@2601:647:5c80:2730:1926:c2d8:43d:9005) |
| 15:31.11 | Lope | At least the newer stuff, like 6800XT (which I don't have) |
| 15:31.18 | *** join/#debian adapter (~adapter@2601:600:c500:2d0:f0f8:bf4b:7faa:2de) |
| 15:31.30 | ratrace | Lope: those chans, LTT included, are REEKING of sponsored MONEH. I'd take what they say with a wagonful of burlapfuls of salt. |
| 15:31.39 | imMute | shtrb: that doesn't look like an error... |
| 15:31.53 | oerheks | sudo nvme error-log /dev/nvme0 |
| 15:32.06 | shtrb | imMute, it's reported as an error (also mentioned in errors of smartctl) |
| 15:32.35 | *** join/#debian neilthereildeil (cc73b704@unaffiliated/neilthereildeil) |
| 15:32.43 | imMute | shtrb: "status: SUCCESS". doesn't sound like an error to me. sounds like shoddy code that thinks it's an error but it really isnt. (or really is an error but is not reporting what the error really was) |
| 15:32.44 | ratrace | Lope: also, the hardware might be good but the software reeks. Drivers and userland control panel things. |
| 15:32.50 | neilthereildeil | hey guys. i need to resize my root partition. is there a way to do this? |
| 15:32.58 | imMute | shtrb: the count is also zero... |
| 15:32.58 | neilthereildeil | i dont want to love my data either |
| 15:33.07 | neilthereildeil | lose* |
| 15:33.18 | ratrace | neilthereildeil: yes but offline. Thou SHALT make backups, or suffer. |
| 15:33.30 | neilthereildeil | how would i do it (even offline)? |
| 15:33.31 | *** join/#debian filohuhum (~filohuhum@gateway/tor-sasl/filohuhum) |
| 15:33.36 | ratrace | neilthereildeil: which filesystem? |
| 15:33.40 | shtrb | imMute, the problem is that in smartctl I get "Error Information Log Entries: 921" and I even get smart alerts about that value and Ijust can't understand |
| 15:34.10 | shtrb | And "Error Information (NVMe Log 0x01, 16 of 64 entries)" |
| 15:34.20 | neilthereildeil | ratrace: ext4 |
| 15:34.24 | ratrace | neilthereildeil: with resize2fs. do you want to shrink or enlarge it? |
| 15:34.30 | neilthereildeil | shrink |
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| 15:34.44 | ratrace | backups definitely |
| 15:35.18 | *** join/#debian hanasaki (~hanasaki@pool-71-179-59-207.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) |
| 15:35.34 | Lope | ratrace, found this https://gist.github.com/kytulendu/3351b5d0b4f947e19df36b1ea3c95cbe |
| 15:35.34 | neilthereildeil | ok, so just backup and use resize2fs? |
| 15:35.56 | ratrace | neilthereildeil: pretty much. here's a redhat's guide on the issue: https://access.redhat.com/articles/1196333 |
| 15:36.07 | imMute | shtrb: I dunno then. something (maybe software, maybe hardware) sounds messed up. |
| 15:36.29 | shtrb | That is reassuring |
| 15:36.54 | ratrace | shtrb: which kernel? |
| 15:37.02 | imMute | shtrb: it might be the reporting software just being junk and nothing is actually wrong. wouldn't be unheard of. but I'd definitely consider that hw suspect |
| 15:37.07 | *** join/#debian Karnos (~Karnos@181.191.9.153) |
| 15:37.29 | shtrb | ratrace, 5.10 |
| 15:37.48 | ratrace | shtrb: oof. I was gonna blame 4.19 where I had nvme issues that disappeared with 5.8 and newer, from backports |
| 15:38.33 | ratrace | Lope: dunno what to tell you. toying with LD like that assumes you know what you're doing. |
| 15:38.39 | *** join/#debian Jerrynicki (~niklas@p200300f57702ba00662477be8420f83e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:38.42 | Lope | ratrace, LD? |
| 15:39.16 | ratrace | the linker, ldconfig and manually injecting sofiles into the system |
| 15:39.42 | *** join/#debian koniu (~koniu@gateway/tor-sasl/koniu) |
| 15:39.46 | Lope | ratrace, well, there's always ZFS snapshot :) |
| 15:39.52 | Lope | going to give it a spin. |
| 15:40.23 | Lope | I maen if this *doesn't* work, I'll need to install another distro, or *gasp* windoze. |
| 15:40.36 | Lope | apparently Arch Linux has it in an AUR |
| 15:40.44 | urk | I trying to install firmware for the stable release 10.7.0, but not sure how to get it into the system. I have it on memory stick, and only find a method of uploading the driver for the network card, and not the firmware. |
| 15:40.50 | Lope | which I believe is some sort of non-free package thing. |
| 15:40.50 | urk | This is for Buster |
| 15:40.55 | ratrace | Lope: maybe debootstrap'd ubuntu into a container would suffice? |
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| 15:41.10 | Lope | ratrace, well, might as well just run ubuntu |
| 15:41.22 | Lope | ratrace, but the situation doesn't look simple on ubuntu? |
| 15:41.34 | ratrace | that comes with a megaton of other conditions and strings and nopes |
| 15:41.35 | Lope | ratrace, does ubuntu have an OpenCL driver that "just works"? |
| 15:41.41 | ratrace | I don't know |
| 15:41.54 | Lope | Well, arch linux has it in AUR, which is looking most promising. |
| 15:42.08 | Lope | " For Arch Linux or Manjaro, use the opencl-amd on AUR instread. |
| 15:42.08 | Lope | #" |
| 15:42.23 | Lope | I've never used arch before. |
| 15:42.33 | Lope | A lot of nerds are in love with it. |
| 15:42.45 | Lope | How the fuck does AMD not provide a driver for debian |
| 15:42.53 | ratrace | the "CS:GO" of linux |
| 15:42.58 | Lope | How are we supposed to take them seriously? |
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| 15:44.02 | urk | Does someone know the channel name for the Debian Social? |
| 15:44.20 | ratrace | urk: there'd #debian-offtopic here on freenode |
| 15:44.29 | urk | thanks |
| 15:45.15 | milkt | do linux kernel now support TAI or GPS time? |
| 15:45.17 | Lope | ratrace, hail mary, ZFS snapshot taken, and now running de olde script. |
| 15:45.27 | *** join/#debian Downer (downer@gateway/vpn/mullvad/downer) |
| 15:45.28 | ratrace | good old zfs |
| 15:45.49 | Lope | ratrace, I've "finished" my install script BTW. About 3 times. |
| 15:46.00 | *** join/#debian ychaouche (~ychaouche@unaffiliated/ychaouche) |
| 15:46.01 | ratrace | I'm still finishing it, few years later :) |
| 15:46.03 | ychaouche | hello #debian |
| 15:46.15 | Lope | It's marvellous but every time I've done an install with it, I've had to fix issues. Hopefully next time it can "just work" |
| 15:46.35 | ychaouche | I'm seeing something for the first time on debian 9.9 (it's also first time I tried it) |
| 15:46.37 | ychaouche | u www-data -s /bin/bash - |
| 15:46.37 | ychaouche | bash: cannot set terminal process group (-1): Inappropriate ioctl for device |
| 15:46.37 | ychaouche | bash: no job control in this shell |
| 15:46.42 | ychaouche | su* |
| 15:46.42 | *** kick/#debian [ychaouche!~debhelper@unaffiliated/debhelper] by debhelper (flood) |
| 15:46.53 | *** join/#debian ychaouche (~ychaouche@unaffiliated/ychaouche) |
| 15:47.00 | ratrace | c'mon, this is not your first irc rodeo |
| 15:47.05 | ychaouche | :p |
| 15:47.06 | *** join/#debian Z4CHe (~zachary@156.146.38.144) |
| 15:47.08 | ratrace | you even gots a friggin cloak |
| 15:47.15 | Lope | ratrace, it's like black magic. It does A MOTHERTON of stuff. Unfortunately, every time something goes wrong, it crashes. (which is better than swallowing the error) |
| 15:47.25 | Lope | but yeah, whatyougonnado. |
| 15:47.51 | ratrace | Lope: I recommend polishing it with a VM |
| 15:48.00 | ychaouche | I thought 3+1 != 4 |
| 15:48.23 | Lope | ratrace, thanks, well I generally install to an SSD, and boot the SSD with a VM, before unplugging it. |
| 15:48.36 | Lope | Saves time. |
| 15:48.59 | ratrace | ychaouche: su <options> <user> <arguments> so move that -s before user |
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| 15:53.10 | ychaouche | ratrace, same |
| 15:53.32 | ychaouche | # su -s /bin/bash www-data - |
| 15:53.43 | Lope | ratrace, geez snapshots are indispensable. I had to do a rollback cos I tried to install it in /tmp which didn't have enough space |
| 15:53.48 | ychaouche | bash: cannot set terminal process group (-1): Inappropriate ioctl for device |
| 15:53.54 | Lope | And the script isn't set to crash when something goes wrong |
| 15:54.06 | Lope | So god knows what it did haha. #rollback |
| 15:54.36 | Lope | This is the first time I've done a rollback on a running system rootfs |
| 15:54.40 | ychaouche | oh, even the - needs to be before any username |
| 15:54.42 | Lope | Seems to have survived. |
| 15:54.44 | ratrace | ychaouche: - is also in the options group |
| 15:54.46 | ychaouche | and - is the same as -l |
| 15:56.04 | ratrace | Lope: I wouldn't do that if I were you. issues might not be immediately obvious |
| 15:56.45 | Lope | ratrace, rollback and reboot? |
| 15:57.08 | ratrace | Lope: I'd reboot from initramfs somehow |
| 15:57.17 | ratrace | %s/reboot/rollback/ |
| 15:57.45 | ratrace | or .... sync, remount ro, rollback, reboot |
| 15:57.55 | Lope | ratrace, this AMD GPU on Linux situation is a disgrace. I ran the script. |
| 15:57.56 | Lope | amdgpu_device_initialize: DRM version is 2.50.0 but this driver is only compatible with 3.x.x. |
| 15:58.10 | Lope | Segmentation fault |
| 15:58.12 | Lope | hahahahahah |
| 15:58.13 | ratrace | bwahaha |
| 15:58.15 | Lope | that's running clinfo |
| 15:58.21 | ratrace | Ubuntu it is! |
| 15:58.42 | Lope | ratrace, you keep saying Ubuntu, but does ubuntu have a driver that you can "just install" and "just works" ? |
| 15:59.00 | *** join/#debian Downer (downer@gateway/vpn/mullvad/downer) |
| 15:59.59 | ratrace | no but if that script is developed for ubuntu, expects ubuntu tools and versions ... |
| 16:00.05 | ratrace | %s/no /I don't know, / |
| 16:00.18 | Lope | fuck :/ |
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| 16:00.50 | Lope | ratrace, 3 weeks ago: https://community.amd.com/t5/drivers-software/cannot-install-opencl-drivers-on-ubuntu-on-20-04/td-p/445881 |
| 16:00.55 | ratrace | ,v dkms |
| 16:00.56 | judd | Package: dkms on amd64 -- jessie: 2.2.0.3-2; stretch: 2.3-2; stretch-backports: 2.6.1-4~bpo9+1; buster: 2.6.1-4; bullseye: 2.8.4-2; sid: 2.8.4-2 |
| 16:00.59 | Lope | "I have tried a thousand ways now, and its been really hard to get OpenCL to work on ubuntu." |
| 16:01.43 | ratrace | see that's why I only buy nvidia hardware. feels dirty, filthy, but it JustWorks(tm) |
| 16:01.59 | Lope | Bugger! |
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| 16:04.19 | shtrb | !non offical |
| 16:04.36 | shtrb | !firmware |
| 16:04.37 | dpkg | Firmware is software to operate electronic devices, usually contained in EPROM or flash memory. Some Linux kernel drivers require firmware to be provided from userspace, notably for <WiFi> devices. Most firmware files are not part of a Debian release as they do not conform to the <DFSG>; some are available via <contrib> and <non-free> packages, ask me about <search>. See also <installer firmware>. http://wiki.debian.org/Firmware |
| 16:04.44 | shtrb | #@%@#@ |
| 16:05.28 | shtrb | urk , you need to get debian installer with firmware (also called non official cds) |
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| 16:27.32 | urk | shtrb> non official doesn't have the firmware. |
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| 16:28.52 | shtrb | which firmware you are missing ? |
| 16:29.48 | Lope | ratrace, I tried that install script on an ubuntu live USB, looks like it got even more errors than on Debian. |
| 16:29.52 | jelly | !firmware images |
| 16:29.52 | dpkg | There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ The images are "unofficial" because "official Debian" includes only 100% free software. They are otherwise identical to the normal installer images and prepared by the same Debian Developers. See <check iso>. |
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| 16:32.17 | samba35 | how to setup power in linux |
| 16:32.46 | samba35 | to acpi |
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| 16:32.54 | Lope | ratrace, my bad, the live USB didn't have tar installed. now it ran without errors, but then clinfo showed "number of platforms 0" |
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| 16:38.51 | samba35 | when i run cpupower monitor pc3 and pc6 are 0.00 so i want to understand how to setup that |
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| 16:41.20 | samba35 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:42.19 | jhutchins | dpkg: ping |
| 16:42.19 | dpkg | Sorry jhutchins, you're not online. |
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| 16:42.47 | jelly | samba35, what is "pc3" and "pc6"? |
| 16:42.57 | jhutchins | !pine64 |
| 16:43.43 | jhutchins | samba35: Run the standard Debian installer. |
| 16:44.47 | samba35 | ok |
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| 16:45.30 | samba35 | jelly, to be honest i want to understand what it is |
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| 16:55.25 | jelly | samba35, I mean, where do you see those strings? |
| 16:55.38 | jelly | in "cpupower monitor" output? |
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| 16:58.05 | samba35 | 0.00 |
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| 17:01.54 | hegemoOn | `hello, |
| 17:02.09 | hegemoOn | kernel autoremove, is there a way to keep a defined number of kernel ? |
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| 17:09.27 | jelly | hegemoOn, you'd probably have to extend /etc/kernel/postinst.d/apt-auto-removal script to save some more |
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| 17:09.41 | jelly | it... is not very pretty |
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| 17:10.22 | jelly | it generates /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/01autoremove-kernels |
| 17:10.27 | hegemoOn | yes |
| 17:10.45 | hegemoOn | can i rerun it by hand ? |
| 17:11.00 | jelly | sure |
| 17:11.52 | hegemoOn | im installing 5.10 from backport |
| 17:11.59 | hegemoOn | and i want to cleanup /boot |
| 17:12.18 | hegemoOn | somehow i have an apt update/upgrade weekly run on crontab which install kernel |
| 17:12.26 | hegemoOn | but some servers dont reboot often |
| 17:12.58 | hegemoOn | for exemple i have a server running on 4.19.0.8 while 13 and 14 are present but not 9/10/11/12 |
| 17:13.04 | hegemoOn | which i guess were autoremoved |
| 17:15.00 | hegemoOn | i need to normalise it |
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| 17:15.29 | ratrace | hegemoOn: why aren't you using automation and orchestration for that? |
| 17:15.37 | hegemoOn | i am |
| 17:15.40 | hegemoOn | ansible. |
| 17:15.50 | hegemoOn | but im onboarding on an existant setup |
| 17:16.05 | hegemoOn | so i need to migrate over automation without breaking everything in place :) |
| 17:16.53 | hegemoOn | but ansible doesnt seems to be very flexible |
| 17:17.00 | hegemoOn | i think bruteforce will be needed |
| 17:17.09 | ratrace | not sure I understand the problem then. if you have automation, it shouldn't be difficult to keep all the servers in sync |
| 17:17.18 | hegemoOn | instead of "delete all kernel except the 2 most recents" |
| 17:17.40 | hegemoOn | i will have to list all possible kernel and remove them in a loop |
| 17:18.15 | hegemoOn | ratrace: im trying to migrate from a weekly crontab of "apt update && apt upgrade" |
| 17:18.20 | hegemoOn | to unattended-upgrade |
| 17:18.24 | hegemoOn | which would be a great improvement |
| 17:18.26 | jhutchins | hegemoOn: Why do you need those older kernels? |
| 17:18.42 | hegemoOn | got too much trouble with grub-pc update |
| 17:18.42 | ratrace | what's the purpose of that? by default on debian, it keeps last kernel (before update) around as a fallback in case the new one is broken |
| 17:18.51 | hegemoOn | which were blocking the crontab for weeks |
| 17:19.04 | ratrace | I would seriously recommend against unattended upgrades, especially if you have automation |
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| 17:19.59 | ratrace | so anyway, with keeping the last kernel around being just a fallback, what's the reason for keeping specific (number of) versions? because then some other solution might be better, that of building your own .debs for those kernels you specifically need |
| 17:20.20 | hegemoOn | i was jsut asking if it's possible |
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| 17:20.38 | jhutchins | I thought there was a configuration variable you could set somewhere to determine the number of fallback kernels... |
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| 17:21.31 | hegemoOn | ratrace: yes it seems to be the best |
| 17:21.37 | hegemoOn | i will update kernel to 5.10 backport |
| 17:21.56 | hegemoOn | reboot and rerun /etc/kernel/postinst.d/apt-auto-removal and apt autoremove --purge |
| 17:22.03 | hegemoOn | just worked perfectly on test server |
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| 17:22.35 | jhutchins | hegemoOn: Be sure you test the system thoroughly. THere have been regressions in recent backports. |
| 17:22.59 | jelly | hegemoOn, why do you feel you need to "normalize" the state? The idea is to keep the kernel that actually runs |
| 17:23.00 | hegemoOn | to be honest, client wants to test 5.10 kernel |
| 17:23.09 | ratrace | btw I don't think autoremove handles the kernels across major version ... |
| 17:23.16 | jelly | it does |
| 17:23.33 | jelly | you can use it with backports, for example, it does reasonable things |
| 17:23.34 | hegemoOn | jelly: cause currently i have sometime more than 2 kernels in /boot |
| 17:23.39 | ratrace | hrm then I must've done something wrong because I had leftover 5.8, 5.9 from backports, despite autoremove |
| 17:23.52 | jelly | hegemoOn, keep your /boot large enough to have four |
| 17:23.58 | hegemoOn | well |
| 17:24.00 | jelly | hegemoOn, 500MB is okay. |
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| 17:24.07 | hegemoOn | we are not talking about desktop |
| 17:24.08 | jelly | 200MB might NOT be okay. |
| 17:24.11 | hegemoOn | but servers |
| 17:24.15 | hegemoOn | not easy to reboot |
| 17:24.27 | hegemoOn | i will extend /boot when we will migrate to debian 11 |
| 17:24.28 | jelly | hegemoOn, are these physical machines or VMs? |
| 17:24.34 | hegemoOn | baremetal |
| 17:24.57 | jelly | no idea then. Be careful. |
| 17:25.00 | ratrace | hegemoOn: why aren't they easy to reboot? |
| 17:25.01 | hegemoOn | im |
| 17:25.13 | hegemoOn | ratrace: cause my client is not devops minded :) |
| 17:25.18 | jelly | if they were VMs I'd suggest using -cloud- flavor kernels |
| 17:25.23 | rajivmars | I m using debian 10. as i m new to linux, i am reading debian-reference. that manual says that there are six switchable virtual character consoles and normally the x-window is running on the virtual console 7. following the manual when i am trying to go to tty1 by using ctrl+alt+f1 (or f2), its not working. but i can go to tty3 by using f3 instead of f1 or f2. thereafter, when i am trying to come to GUI by using alt+f7, i got nothi |
| 17:25.23 | rajivmars | stead alt+f2 get the GUI back. why is it happening? is is normal or something goes wrong? |
| 17:25.39 | ratrace | hegemoOn: oh political reasons? :) |
| 17:25.40 | jelly | ,v linux-image-cloud-amd64 |
| 17:25.41 | judd | Package: linux-image-cloud-amd64 on amd64 -- stretch-backports: 4.19+105+deb10u4~bpo9+1; buster: 4.19+105+deb10u9; buster-security: 4.19+105+deb10u9; buster-backports: 5.10.13-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 5.10.13-1; sid: 5.10.13-1 |
| 17:25.48 | hegemoOn | ratrace: i try to advocate to more reliable infra design |
| 17:25.55 | jelly | ^ much smaller initrds |
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| 17:26.16 | hegemoOn | ratrace: yeah a little old fashion, one server <-> one service |
| 17:26.26 | ratrace | hegemoOn: so you need orchestration? |
| 17:26.32 | jelly | one server one point of failoor |
| 17:26.38 | hegemoOn | i introduced them to haproxy and loadbalancing with multiple instances as far as most of their service are stateless |
| 17:26.44 | ratrace | btw, ansible is pretty ... buggy and unflexible yes. I'm switching my fleet to SaltStack in full |
| 17:27.01 | hegemoOn | ratrace: i would like to give it a try also |
| 17:27.22 | hegemoOn | but it's been 5 years im doing ansible and client bought me for my ansible experience |
| 17:27.30 | jelly | rajivmars, the reference LIES |
| 17:27.38 | hegemoOn | i dunno if i can "sell" saltstack to them |
| 17:27.49 | hegemoOn | which would be another big jump not so easy to justify |
| 17:27.52 | jelly | (Gnome changed those defaults) |
| 17:27.57 | ratrace | hegemoOn: yeah, it is |
| 17:27.58 | rajivmars | jelly: what? |
| 17:28.24 | jelly | rajivmars, your GUI might not be on Ctrl-Alt-F7 but Ctrl-Alt-F2 or elsewhere |
| 17:28.33 | hegemoOn | if im correct, that default slatstak is based on agent ? |
| 17:28.38 | ratrace | GDM's on F1, gnome sess on F2 iirc |
| 17:28.52 | jelly | because reasons. |
| 17:29.00 | ratrace | hegemoOn: unlike ansible it's a server-client (master-agent) paradigm, yes |
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| 17:29.19 | rajivmars | jelly: so, is it normal or not? |
| 17:29.20 | ratrace | hegemoOn: but the yaml structure is more expressive and easier to handle than ansible's |
| 17:29.30 | jelly | ratrace, surely it's "main" now not "master"? :-D |
| 17:29.41 | jrgcombr | hey guys, I´m looking for right place to get in touch with the current maintainer of debian´s cron pkg. I think I found a bug when cron is being used with pam_group. |
| 17:29.46 | jelly | rajivmars, it's normal, yes, the docs are a bit out of date |
| 17:29.48 | hegemoOn | ratrace:and to be also more precise, im onboarding on a more ambitious project to migrate 10000 servers from RHEL to debian with also adding 50000cores to the server farm fully debian |
| 17:29.51 | ratrace | hegemoOn: one of biggest problems I have with ansible is that the roles model is totally useless, since a task can't ask "list me the roles you're in" per host |
| 17:30.01 | rajivmars | jelly: ok, thanx |
| 17:30.16 | ratrace | jelly: no, here it's master. actually, slave driver damned godlike control master. |
| 17:30.19 | hegemoOn | for that im relying on "automation" based on MAAS with some ansible workflow |
| 17:30.30 | ratrace | jelly: yeah yeah, I know what you meant :) |
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| 17:31.38 | hegemoOn | so for this project i will rely on ansible, as far as unix team are going to launch automated job from ansible tower pointing to my git repo for post-instal |
| 17:32.26 | ratrace | few words you used there got my allergies worked up, I'm sneezing like crazy.... ansible tower... MAAS.... |
| 17:32.45 | hegemoOn | welcome to corporate banking |
| 17:32.47 | hegemoOn | :) |
| 17:33.02 | ratrace | btw when you say MAAS... you mean Canonical's? or as a generic term? |
| 17:33.15 | hegemoOn | canonical |
| 17:33.19 | ratrace | yeah... ooh.... ooh..... aaaah......... aaaaaa CHO! |
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| 17:33.33 | hegemoOn | they almost faint when we forced them to install debain |
| 17:33.41 | hegemoOn | theywanted to deploy ubuntu |
| 17:35.02 | ratrace | but they can still use those services. I can imagine live patching being more attractive than rebooting servers |
| 17:35.02 | hegemoOn | but from what i could understand from their explanation, outside ubuntu, MAAS is just a norton ghost tool |
| 17:36.04 | ratrace | more like server provisioning cloud made of baremetals thingy |
| 17:36.18 | ratrace | meta provisioning for vm host provisioning..... provisioning. |
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| 17:36.52 | hegemoOn | well i dont know |
| 17:37.11 | hegemoOn | in fact it's too much politics, and i tend to stick to my client's side |
| 17:37.31 | hegemoOn | there is an ongoing was between my client and unix team |
| 17:37.51 | hegemoOn | my client challenged them to deploy 3000 debian as fast as possible |
| 17:38.06 | hegemoOn | i have my FAI ready as a backup |
| 17:38.37 | hegemoOn | s/was/war/ |
| 17:39.02 | hegemoOn | hum, son is crying, i might go see what happen |
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| 18:21.10 | JamesGatz | Hello. I have a debian instance running in Gnome Boxes that runs postgresql configured to listen on the external IP. It seems postgresql starts before the external IP is up (?) so it does not listen. I have to restart the service after boot. What's the best way to address this? |
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| 18:22.20 | greycat | !auto |
| 18:22.20 | dpkg | Interfaces marked "auto" in /etc/network/interfaces are waited for by things that wait for the network to be up (like systemd's network-online.target). "allow-hotplug" means the interface is removable or not always needed, so network-online won't wait for it. |
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| 18:26.44 | JamesGatz | greycat: thanks, works! |
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| 19:08.05 | drocsid | Hello, I recently upgraded my debian system and it broke my user login. I rebooted te system and logged in as root. I'm unable to set the password or use `su user` to login via the user account. I've tried `sudo pam-auth-update` and also various steps in https://www.tecmint.com/fix-passwd-authentication-token-manipulation-error-in-linux/ and have not been able to login. |
| 19:08.49 | drocsid | Any debian / linux gurus who can help me to fix my login |
| 19:08.51 | drocsid | ? |
| 19:09.15 | greycat | passwd username |
| 19:09.28 | drocsid | no, I get the password auth error when I try that |
| 19:09.47 | drocsid | passwd: Authentication token manipulation error |
| 19:09.58 | drocsid | passwd: password uncahnged |
| 19:10.11 | greycat | did you break the /etc/shadow file? did you break PAM? |
| 19:10.44 | drocsid | /etc/shadow looks like what I'd expect. usernames and maybe hashed passwords |
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| 19:11.16 | drocsid | maybe pam is broken? I tried the `pam-auth-update` as root. What should I try next? |
| 19:11.51 | sney | what happens when you try to log in as your user? |
| 19:12.13 | drocsid | so as root I try `su user` |
| 19:12.44 | drocsid | And it immeadiatly returns - su: Authenticaiton failure |
| 19:12.57 | ratrace | first of all, get used to using -l or - with su |
| 19:12.58 | drocsid | where users is my username |
| 19:13.27 | greycat | you never answered the question about what happens when you login normally |
| 19:14.51 | drocsid | greycat: let me try that again... |
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| 19:17.35 | drocsid | So after rebooting, on the login prompt I type my user name. I hit return. I seem to immeadiatly get `login incorrect` after entering my username |
| 19:17.49 | drocsid | and hitting enter, before I even enter the password field |
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| 19:20.19 | drocsid | The same happens when I try to login as root. The only way I was able to login as root was using the maitenance or recovery kernel boot option |
| 19:21.34 | shtrb | drocsid, do you have any external authentication mechanism setup (2FA , network , radius ,diameter, ldap, kerberos, google etc) |
| 19:22.47 | drocsid | shtrb: I do not believe so. I did use the machine at work once but it's my personal laptop. This happened after a debian upgrade. Before that, I would just login locally using username / password |
| 19:23.02 | shtrb | drocsid, have you modified your pam settings in any way ? |
| 19:23.14 | greycat | Well, it sure sounds like PAM is hosed. |
| 19:23.22 | drocsid | shtrb: I do not believe so. How do we check or repair? |
| 19:23.34 | greycat | What version of Debian *were* you running, and what did you "upgrade"? |
| 19:24.23 | shtrb | greycat, there's also the root file system in readonly mode fallback due to an error (which may prevent him to login ) |
| 19:24.54 | greycat | I don't recall seeing that |
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| 19:26.06 | drocsid | I am remounting root to r/w in recovery mode to try to mitigate the issue. But it hasn't helped so far |
| 19:26.31 | shtrb | After remounting , do you see any free disk space on the same parttion that /home is mounted ? |
| 19:26.59 | drocsid | I've upgraded to bullseye/sid according to /etc/debian_version |
| 19:27.02 | shtrb | and can you create a file in the parttion that host home |
| 19:27.09 | shtrb | drocsid, from what ? |
| 19:27.17 | drocsid | I see 9.9G available |
| 19:27.49 | drocsid | shtrb: if I recall I was running the previous testing version |
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| 19:28.18 | shtrb | In such case I agree with greycat , it's probably pam some how damaged |
| 19:29.03 | drocsid | Is there a process for reparing pam? |
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| 19:29.41 | greycat | reinstall the PAM library package(s) |
| 19:29.55 | greycat | make sure the configs look normal |
| 19:30.08 | greycat | if the configs seem damaged, reinstall those as well, which may require additional options |
| 19:30.23 | drocsid | I will look up the pam package names |
| 19:30.27 | shtrb | but first backup the important stuff |
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| 19:33.16 | drocsid | The other terrible thing about this laptop, it has a damaged usb socket that floods the terminal. I forget how to disable that... |
| 19:35.16 | jelly | if things haven't changed for bullseye, something like "pam-auth-update --force" should overwrite all the /etc/pam.d/common-* |
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| 19:36.02 | jelly | drocsid, but please show your "apt-cache policy" first. |
| 19:36.08 | greycat | I've never had to use that before... never even *heard* of it before. Was I just lucky? |
| 19:36.16 | jelly | you were very lucky |
| 19:36.40 | jelly | and/or never has to mess with weirder pam providers |
| 19:36.42 | shtrb | and probably using default modules only |
| 19:43.03 | drocsid | running apt upgrade right now before jumping through the pam hoops. Maybe I will get lucky |
| 19:43.32 | drocsid | notice a few standard looking pam package names in the list... |
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| 19:48.32 | johnfg | hi folks |
| 19:48.52 | johnfg | I'm looking for some direction in regards to networking, probably dns. |
| 19:49.11 | johnfg | I recently took our website, offsite, to a web host. |
| 19:49.37 | johnfg | So, our root domain changed its ip. |
| 19:49.57 | johnfg | My server is debian, and other machine debian too. |
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| 19:51.09 | johnfg | My question concerns, how do I continue to serve everything that's 'under' (not sure about that word) under my domain? |
| 19:51.41 | johnfg | i.e., church.my.domain; krb1.my.domain; afs1.my.domain; etc. |
| 19:52.47 | drocsid | johnfg: that's not a debian specific question, but I assume that you have DNS records you need to update to point to the new host. You may need to point the CNAME to the new IP. |
| 19:54.21 | ratrace | CNAME is not IP but hostname. and let's not assume CNAMEs are needed here. but yes, bottom line is, if a server changed IP, make the relevant updates in all the relevant zones. |
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| 19:55.40 | ratrace | (and if those are CNAMEs already, nothing needs changing, only the A/AAAA records that actually changed) |
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| 19:57.26 | johnfg | ratrace: Thanks very much. I knew it wasn't specific to here at debian, but thought it was worth a question. I appreciate your help! |
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| 20:01.32 | drocsid | So I haven't had any luck after updating packages, I cheked the cache, the pins looked ok to me. Ran pam-auth-update --force, no luck |
| 20:01.37 | gniw | cnames are more like aliases |
| 20:02.01 | drocsid | yeah my bad regarding cnames. I don't do that stuff everyday. More like once every 5 years |
| 20:05.01 | johnfg | Exactly my problem, not doing this often (understated). Plus, we have hosted our own website for quite a few years. |
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| 20:06.06 | johnfg | Where does debian store ssl server certs? |
| 20:07.14 | nkuttler | johnfg: what kind of server? |
| 20:07.32 | drocsid | libpam-gnome-keyring/unstable libpam-modules-bin/unstable libpam-modules/unstable libpam-runtime/unstable libpam-systemd/unstable libpam0g/unstable <-- my list of installed pam packages |
| 20:07.32 | johnfg | apache2 |
| 20:07.46 | nkuttler | johnfg: check the apache config |
| 20:08.18 | sney | it depends on the cert, if you're using letsencrypt then it'll be in /etc/letsencrypt. otherwise you might have manually installed it to /etc/apache2/ssl or somewhere above your webroot |
| 20:09.14 | drocsid | those look like standard pam packages, nothing unusual or exotic there. Then how should I go about reinstalling the packages or what next? |
| 20:09.34 | johnfg | Yeah, I did that first, and I have one for the website for when I hosted here, but I'm not seeing it. |
| 20:10.31 | greycat | I use nginx & dehydrated, and the certificates appear to be in /var/lib/dehydrated/certs/ |
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| 20:13.09 | jelly | johnfg, apachectl -S will tell you where the VirtualHost definitions are, and you can look at those config files to see how they define SSLCertificateFile and friends |
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| 20:24.45 | drocsid | sheesh. my debian system is really hosed. |
| 20:25.11 | ratrace | what kind of upgrade did you do; from what to what; and uh.... what pins? |
| 20:25.42 | ratrace | "the pins looked ok to me" is telltale sign of a frankendemondebian |
| 20:25.47 | drocsid | ratrace: from testing to testing |
| 20:26.09 | drocsid | ratrace: from old tetsing to bullseye/sid |
| 20:26.22 | ratrace | bullseye OR sid? |
| 20:26.31 | greycat | which lie is the bigger lie |
| 20:26.49 | drocsid | when I cat /etc/debian_version it gives bullseye/did |
| 20:27.02 | drocsid | when I cat /etc/debian_version it gives bullseye/sid. Then I assume that's the installed version |
| 20:27.07 | greycat | *sigh* |
| 20:27.12 | cyveris | What did you put in your sources.list? |
| 20:27.49 | shtrb | drocsid, also apt policy output would be nice |
| 20:27.55 | shtrb | !paste |
| 20:27.55 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: https://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: https://imgbb.com/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): https://filebin.net or https://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>. |
| 20:28.29 | drocsid | I had better fix the flood in my terminal cause I can't read anything first... |
| 20:29.47 | drocsid | dmesg -D to the rescue! |
| 20:30.30 | drocsid | I have to type all this out manually because I'm not able to ssh in for the login. sheesh. |
| 20:30.51 | urk | Not long ago someone on here provided me a link to a Debian Hybrid installer that offers a standard installer, net install, as well as non-free firmware. Any idea where this is at? For some reason the installer seems hard to find. |
| 20:31.57 | Mister00X | urk: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/ |
| 20:34.10 | urk | Mister00X> Does this have the network install option? |
| 20:34.40 | Mister00X | urk: do you mean netboot or netinstall? |
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| 20:35.09 | greycat | ALL debian installers (except the Live ones) use the same code. They all offer you a set of metapackages to choose from. If the ones you choose are on your physical media, then they're installed from there. If not, they're installed from the web. |
| 20:35.52 | drocsid | heres my sources.list: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/371657a0/ |
| 20:37.06 | drocsid | cyveris: greycat: shtrb: ratrace: any issues with ^^ ? |
| 20:37.15 | greycat | you've got "sid" and "testing-security". and a third-party one (spotify). |
| 20:38.02 | greycat | also, you misspelled the word "security" in the URL of the testing-security ones, so even if testing-security actually had any content (it does not), it would have failed for that |
| 20:38.03 | drocsid | sid stands for testing. I don't know why they called it testing-security. I can remove spotify. |
| 20:38.13 | shtrb | drocsid, !frankendebian |
| 20:38.21 | greycat | are you fucking kidding ME?!? |
| 20:38.25 | shtrb | drocsid, sid standands for unstable ! |
| 20:38.26 | greycat | "sid stands for testing"?!?!? |
| 20:38.27 | greycat | NOO! |
| 20:38.29 | drocsid | greycat: I had to type all this so mybe I had a typo |
| 20:38.51 | ratrace | drocsid: sid's not testing but unstable |
| 20:39.35 | greycat | So your *biggest* problem is you're running unstable but you have no idea how anything works. |
| 20:39.36 | ratrace | EVEN if it were... never mix "testing, stable, unstable" with codenames, infact, always use just codenames so when a codename transmogrifies from testing to stable, you won't have nasty surprises |
| 20:39.44 | drocsid | oh my bad. yeah, I have been running unstable with the testing security packages. I will revert to testing... Can I use testing-security with testing? |
| 20:40.12 | ratrace | you haven't been running unstable with testing security packages because those do not exist |
| 20:40.25 | greycat | Bullseye is already partly frozen. It might not be *possible* to downgrade from unstable to frozen bullseye at this point. |
| 20:41.02 | urk | Mmister00X> Yes |
| 20:41.15 | franzopow[m] | I am in testing and I would like to stay on it even after the release of the new stable. Should I worry? :P |
| 20:41.32 | greycat | If you want to run bullseye (which is currently testing, and will eventually be stable), you can add bullseye, bullseye-security and bullseye-updates lines. |
| 20:42.09 | greycat | If you want to run perpetual testing (never becoming stable), then you would use testing lines. And no -security and no -updates because those do not exist for testing. |
| 20:42.28 | drocsid | My bad. Someone should also probably remove https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/529050 |
| 20:42.46 | ratrace | (also there's that short moment of worrying after new stable release when testing thaws for a massload of updates from sid) |
| 20:43.25 | franzopow[m] | <ratrace "(also there's that short moment "> Yeah basically I was worried about this |
| 20:44.10 | franzopow[m] | <greycat "If you want to run perpetual tes"> I would like to do so, but, I do receive security updates, right? I am just the last one of the 3 to receive those |
| 20:44.29 | franzopow[m] | I currently run testing since some months |
| 20:44.33 | drocsid | So it seems like the suggestion is that I should not try to move from sid => testing, but then I should remove all non sid entries. |
| 20:44.50 | ratrace | franzopow[m]: there are no security updates to testing except by virtue of a testing pacakge upgrading to newer version that contains the fix |
| 20:45.04 | ratrace | which may happen days, weeks after the fact |
| 20:45.19 | greycat | You can *attempt* to converge to bullseye by using bullseye lines, but there is no guarantee it will work, because there might be things in sid, things which you already HAVE, which are numerically higher than what will end up in bullseye. We can't know. |
| 20:45.23 | ratrace | for stable, majority of security fixes are backported through patches to code |
| 20:45.32 | ratrace | (that does not happen for testing) |
| 20:46.37 | franzopow[m] | <ratrace "franzopow: there are no security"> I see but I at least receive some of them |
| 20:47.05 | franzopow[m] | Security updates to packages are also security updates |
| 20:47.23 | drocsid | hmm how do people end up with a sources.list like mine. Maybe also using https://debgen.simplylinux.ch/ |
| 20:47.41 | drocsid | Doesn't seem to call out the distro but uses testing instead |
| 20:47.50 | ratrace | franzopow[m]: yes, sure, eventually they are. problem is only the delay. if you're okay with that, then all is good |
| 20:48.58 | franzopow[m] | Yeah I am ok. I like to have updated packages |
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| 20:51.58 | ratrace | net.netfilter.nf_conntrack_tcp_timeout_syn_sent = 120 WHAT. 2 minutes!? |
| 20:52.00 | urk | Mister00X> Looks like I will need a netboot. |
| 20:52.07 | drocsid | I assume that the source list generator here targeting bullseye will be ok then https://debgen.xyz/ |
| 20:52.23 | drocsid | I do notice a different format for the security packages |
| 20:53.00 | ratrace | should be stable-security for bullseye onward instead of stable/updates, right? |
| 20:53.00 | urk | Mister00X> Does this offer netboot as well as the standard installer? https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/ |
| 20:54.09 | greycat | !bullseye sources.list |
| 20:54.09 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Bullseye" has three lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ bullseye main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ bullseye-updates main". Note that bullseye does not yet have security support and is a <moving target>. See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <bullseye-security>, or <bullseye-updates> and "man sources.list". |
| 20:54.27 | greycat | why the fuck are people using random web sites to generate their config files |
| 20:54.32 | Mister00X | urk: it should not matter I think |
| 20:55.15 | drocsid | greycat: it might be because the debian site doesn't create clear documentation regarding the subject. |
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| 20:56.49 | ratrace | we had decades of stable-updates vs stable/updates and it only took 2021 to change that into a reasonably sane stable-security. *golfclap* no wonder we need third party sites to create config files. |
| 20:57.12 | urk | Mister00X> I already tried the standard installers for the stable releases 10.7.0, and 10.8.0 and they would not install the Intel network card driver. I assume because of no firmware. So it does matter, and I will likely install via network. I was just hoping to create a disk that had both options for future use since Debian now has a hybrid option. |
| 20:57.16 | greycat | because taking the file you already have and changing "buster" to "bullseye" is so hard |
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| 20:57.57 | Mister00X | urk: hybrid means usb bootable as well as optical disc bootable |
| 20:57.57 | ratrace | greycat: but with bullseye, /updates become -security, is that not? |
| 20:57.57 | urk | Mister00X> No prompt comes up to install the firmware when selecting the Intel Network Card Driver. |
| 20:57.58 | greycat | (the switch from buster/updates to bullseye-security is the only tricky part, and this is the first time you've needed it) |
| 20:58.05 | ratrace | yeah |
| 20:58.08 | rabbadabba | if you want a one-click upgrade, go back to ubuntu |
| 20:58.11 | ratrace | surely it'll be in release notes. |
| 20:58.21 | urk | Mister00X> Yes, about a week or so ago someone provided me a link that has both options for the testing release. |
| 20:58.39 | drocsid | But https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList looks ok... I think you would be better linking the releases list to the sources doc |
| 20:58.48 | Mister00X | urk: those images are hybrids |
| 20:59.04 | nkuttler | c |
| 20:59.10 | urk | Mister00X> So https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/ has the network option in it? |
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| 20:59.19 | greycat | *sigh* |
| 20:59.25 | greycat | I KNOW I answered this one already. |
| 20:59.32 | drocsid | To some degree I've had a bit of luck on arch... |
| 20:59.37 | greycat | ALL debian installers (except the Live ones) use the same code. They all offer you a set of metapackages to choose from. If the ones you choose are on your physical media, then they're installed from there. If not, they're installed from the web. |
| 21:00.34 | drocsid | only trouble I had with it was with the hadoop install... |
| 21:01.02 | drocsid | the docs were great however |
| 21:01.15 | Lope | ratrace, any idea how I can download ubuntu's GPG keyrings to Debian? |
| 21:01.27 | Lope | /usr/share/keyrings/ubuntu-archive-keyring.gpg |
| 21:01.54 | ratrace | Lope: sounds like you're about to do something terribly.... illadvised :) |
| 21:02.19 | Lope | ah, looks like I can just install ubuntu-archive-keyring lol |
| 21:02.25 | craigevil | ubuntu's keyring is in debian repos for some odd reason |
| 21:02.36 | Lope | okay cool, that worked. |
| 21:02.45 | Lope | cos they're cousins, maaan |
| 21:03.30 | ratrace | ubuntu-keyring is the actual package |
| 21:05.20 | Lope | ratrace, cool. so what's ill advised? Install ubuntu? |
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| 21:05.36 | Lope | Turns out Ubuntu has packages for OpenCL |
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| 21:06.09 | ratrace | installing ubuntu packages on debian |
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| 21:06.41 | Lope | hehe yeah |
| 21:06.51 | Lope | Looks like https://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ disappeared :/ |
| 21:07.03 | Lope | oh lol, they have no https |
| 21:07.04 | Lope | wtf? |
| 21:07.35 | ratrace | does it matter with gpg signing? |
| 21:07.41 | Lope | probably not |
| 21:08.13 | greycat | it only matters if you're stuck behind a firewall that lets you use https but not http |
| 21:08.47 | Lope | pretty weird that they have no https |
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| 21:10.23 | cyveris | Doesn't really help much, given that packages are signed. |
| 21:10.30 | cyveris | There's already an authenticity and integrity guarantee. |
| 21:11.02 | ratrace | there's only privacy issues :) |
| 21:11.12 | ratrace | dpkg -l my-furry-collection |
| 21:11.12 | dpkg | No packages found matching my-furry-collection |
| 21:11.37 | ratrace | oh! where's the sass in your response, dpkg! |
| 21:11.39 | cyveris | Then run your own package server. |
| 21:11.47 | cyveris | Because quite literally no one cares what packages you're installing. |
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| 21:12.19 | Lope | ratrace, I'm giving my install script a spin, installing ubuntu, eek! |
| 21:12.36 | ratrace | Lope: debootstrapping a container? |
| 21:13.14 | Lope | nah, it's for OpenCL on an AMD GPU |
| 21:13.23 | Lope | seems like Ubuntu is more of a "just works" situation |
| 21:13.49 | Lope | My failed test installing openCL via that weird script on an ubuntu live USB, notwithstanding. |
| 21:14.33 | Mister00X | Lope: isn't there this mesa-opencl-icd package on debian? |
| 21:14.35 | Lope | oh shit. I just realized that debian vs ubuntu like to name packages slightly differently. |
| 21:14.44 | ratrace | dpkg -l | grep my-furry-collection |
| 21:14.44 | dpkg | ii | grep my-furry-collection 1.3-3 ultra s3kr1t #debian package |
| 21:14.54 | ratrace | ah there's teh sass. I needed a grep |
| 21:15.03 | Lope | Mister00X, that's the open source one, innit? |
| 21:15.19 | Mister00X | Lope: yes |
| 21:16.12 | Lope | Mister00X, yeah, I need the proprietary shit. |
| 21:16.42 | Mister00X | Lope: ohh I see. well thats a pain in the *ss on debian |
| 21:17.43 | Lope | Mister00X, more like ass amputation. |
| 21:18.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1074] by debhelper |
| 21:18.25 | Mister00X | Lope: Hmm it seemed to be so painfull it was not worth the hassle for me, just for trying it |
| 21:18.39 | Lope | yep |
| 21:19.11 | ratrace | can't use openmp? |
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| 21:22.10 | ratrace | clearly, the Khronos group needs to invent a Vulkan for the compute paradigm |
| 21:22.41 | Mister00X | isnt there this rocm stuff from amd? |
| 21:23.20 | Mister00X | which is completely open source |
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| 21:36.59 | drocsid | Woo Hoo! Fixing my installed versions fixed my broken login! Thanks folks for your help and patience! |
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| 22:01.40 | wanko | Hello, I'd just like to ask, how do I get Auto resize to VM window for QEMU/KVM debian guest in virt-manager? I installed spice-vdagent, but starting it doesn't do anything (and it does not seem to want to run as boot) |
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| 22:08.29 | jhutchins | wanko: What are you trying to resize? |
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| 22:08.58 | wanko | jhutchins: I want the framebuffer (tty) to fit to the vm screen |
| 22:09.13 | jhutchins | !qemu |
| 22:09.13 | dpkg | QEMU is a fast PC emulator. http://qemu-buch.de/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/FrequentlyAskedQuestions http://www.qemu.org/ #qemu on irc.freenode.net. See also <kvm>, <virtualization>. |
| 22:09.30 | urk | Looks like this isn't a net install, and was already tried earlier. https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/ |
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| 22:10.25 | jhutchins | wanko: That's a pretty specialised question, you might get better (if slower) answers in the #qwmu channel. |
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| 22:15.31 | wanko | jhutchins: i'll try, thanks |
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| 22:37.26 | Swift110-mobile | https://dpaste.org/cPtV how do I install these missing modules? |
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| 22:38.54 | imMute | Swift110-mobile: https://packages.debian.org/search?mode=exactfilename&suite=buster§ion=all&arch=any&searchon=contents&keywords=bxt_dmc_ver1_07.bin |
| 22:39.37 | Swift110-mobile | thanks imMute |
| 22:40.19 | Swift110-mobile | imMute: but how do I install them? |
| 22:40.26 | Swift110-mobile | thats what I am not understanding |
| 22:42.00 | imMute | sudo apt update && sudo apt install <package_name> |
| 22:42.26 | greycat | If the firmware package exists for your version of Debian, then you first make sure you've included contrib and non-free in your sources.list. Then do what imMute said. |
| 22:42.38 | greycat | If the firmware package does NOT exist for your version of Debian, then it gets interesting. |
| 22:43.24 | Swift110-mobile | Ok greycat thanks but why wasn't this installed automatically when I did sudo apt update and apt upgrade? |
| 22:43.39 | greycat | !non-free |
| 22:43.39 | dpkg | [non-free] a component which contains software that does not comply with the <DFSG>. To add non-free packages to your packages index, ask me about <non-free sources>. To see which non-free packages are installed ask me about <non-free list>. |
| 22:43.42 | Swift110-mobile | thats whats confusing me right now because this is the first time I have sen this |
| 22:43.54 | Swift110-mobile | im already using the non free debian |
| 22:44.28 | greycat | If you installed with the unofficial non-free firmware installer, then I don't know why it would have skipped a package, unless your hardware has changed since then, or it was added to stable since then. |
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| 22:45.00 | Swift110-mobile | hardware is the same as it's always been a t420 |
| 22:45.03 | Swift110-mobile | thinkpad |
| 22:45.13 | Swift110-mobile | but I am now installing those modules |
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| 22:45.50 | Swift110-mobile | E: Unsupported file /lib/firmware/i915/bxt_huc_ver01_07_1398.bin given on commandline |
| 22:46.03 | greycat | you don't run it. it's not a program. |
| 22:46.36 | Swift110-mobile | ok cool |
| 22:46.52 | imMute | greycat: it looks like he ran "sudo apt install /lib/firmware/blah" |
| 22:46.58 | Swift110-mobile | right |
| 22:47.02 | imMute | Swift110-mobile: that's a filename, not a package name. |
| 22:47.05 | greycat | Well, you don't do that either. You install the PACKAGE. |
| 22:47.14 | imMute | Swift110-mobile: the website I linked above tells you which package provides that filename |
| 22:47.26 | greycat | Use packages.debian.org or apt-file or judd to determine the package name. |
| 22:48.05 | Swift110-mobile | oh goodness |
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| 22:48.58 | Swift110-mobile | So I am thinking you mean this? https://packages.debian.org/buster/firmware-misc-nonfree |
| 22:49.14 | greycat | firmware-misc-nonfree is a package name |
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| 22:49.57 | Swift110-mobile | ok so if I install that then I will have the package that I need and will no longer be missing those modules |
| 22:51.07 | Swift110-mobile | you just told me i need to install the package |
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