| 00:00.21 | *** join/#debian r0 (~r0@a95-92-130-232.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 00:00.33 | r0 | hello there! |
| 00:00.51 | r0 | just to say the archive.debian.org doesn't answer in ipv6 |
| 00:01.00 | r0 | telnet -6 archive.debian.org 80 ----> timeout... |
| 00:01.19 | r0 | it works in ipv4, btw |
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| 00:16.01 | ratrace | r0: WorksForMe(tm) tho |
| 00:16.21 | ratrace | 2001:67c:2564:a119::148:13 for example |
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| 00:34.45 | abrotman | works for me as well |
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| 00:37.56 | ryouma | idk anything about ipv6 but fwiw i get "telnet -6 archive.debian.org 80 Trying 2a02:16a8:dc41:100::234... Trying 2001:67c:2564:a119::148:13... telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Network is unreachable" |
| 00:38.12 | ryouma | ratrace: |
| 00:38.14 | ryouma | r0 |
| 00:38.37 | ratrace | do you even have ipv6 connectivity to begin with |
| 00:38.44 | ryouma | not a clue |
| 00:38.47 | ratrace | also, wth telnet. wget -6 is a thing |
| 00:39.08 | ratrace | ryouma: then your information has no value :) |
| 00:39.14 | ryouma | great |
| 00:39.24 | ryouma | unless the value is that r0 is in a similar state of cluelessness |
| 00:39.29 | ryouma | which i presume not |
| 00:39.39 | r0 | telnet -6 archive.debian.org 443 |
| 00:39.39 | r0 | Trying 2001:67c:2564:a119::148:13... |
| 00:39.40 | longshot | I do have ipv6 connectivity and it works for me. |
| 00:39.53 | r0 | ip do have ipv6 connectivity also :P |
| 00:40.50 | ratrace | download mtr-tiny and pastebin mtr -6 -r -c 10 google.com ? |
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| 00:40.58 | abrotman | r0: you can try a tcptraceroute to see where you're broken .. It's working for me and ratrace |
| 00:41.03 | longshot | port 443 works also, but the cert on it doesn't have a SAN name for archive.debian.org |
| 00:41.16 | ratrace | %s/download/apt install/ |
| 00:41.20 | r0 | ping works, so it's not routing |
| 00:41.48 | r0 | ping6 -n archive.debian.org |
| 00:41.49 | r0 | PING archive.debian.org(2001:67c:2564:a119::148:13) 56 data bytes |
| 00:41.49 | r0 | 64 bytes from 2001:67c:2564:a119::148:13: icmp_seq=1 ttl=48 time=42.1 ms |
| 00:41.49 | r0 | 64 bytes from 2001:67c:2564:a119::148:13: icmp_seq=2 ttl=48 time=42.2 ms |
| 00:41.49 | r0 | 64 bytes from 2001:67c:2564:a119::148:13: icmp_seq=3 ttl=48 time=48.1 ms |
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| 00:41.53 | ratrace | you can use syn + port 80 with mtr. could be a packet filter messing your connection, if ping -6 works |
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| 00:42.16 | r0 | ops, sorry... :( |
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| 00:42.30 | ratrace | you can use tcp syn + port 80 with mtr. could be a packet filter messing your connection, if ping -6 works |
| 00:42.52 | r0 | anyway, something strange here... |
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| 00:43.11 | ratrace | mtr would show you where it breaks |
| 00:43.15 | ryouma | is it possible to find out what usb-Generic_STORAGE_DEVICE_000000009744-0:0 is? (i am guessing i have 2 hubs on my monitor or such) |
| 00:43.47 | ratrace | checked lsusb? |
| 00:43.47 | r0 | it works from other machines... I'll try tcpdump to see that's going on here |
| 00:44.13 | r0 | some machines it works ok, others it works ok except tcp |
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| 00:45.40 | r0 | i get no packets back, confirmed... |
| 00:45.58 | r0 | and I have no clue why ... lol |
| 00:46.50 | r0 | reboot... might be something strange with this old debian :P |
| 00:46.54 | ratrace | r0: mtr would show you where it breaks |
| 00:47.53 | r0 | ratrace, as I told before, traceroute works just fine, and ping also |
| 00:48.04 | r0 | so mtr will work fine also, presumably |
| 00:48.06 | ratrace | r0: you're not listening then |
| 00:48.26 | ratrace | r0: you can use mtr with tcp instead of icmp, if ping works but you can't establish a tcp connection |
| 00:48.32 | r0 | ah, ok! |
| 00:48.50 | r0 | i'll try it then, wait a bit... not used to mtr :) |
| 00:49.17 | r0 | I'm from old times... more used to telnet, traceroute, ping... lol |
| 00:51.53 | r0 | have to install mtr, so had to disable ipv6 before :D |
| 00:52.52 | ratrace | mtr-tiny, unless you want the clunky xorg UI |
| 00:55.05 | abrotman | wonders which version of Debian r0 is using that needs archive.d.o, and wonders if the mtr in that version will support IPv6 |
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| 01:20.35 | mr_ab | I'm really confused.. I don't have a pc currently trying to figure out what's wrong with my system which is a rats nest of mdadm with lvm on top and btrfs on top of that ... I have a Debian install USB handy, which has btrfs as a command, but I don't have mount.btrfs and I can't mount any of the btrfs drives despite them showing up in btrfs filesys status... is there a particular way I can trigger the installation of all the btrfs tools? |
| 01:20.51 | r0 | mtr on debian 7 does not support TCP :D |
| 01:20.55 | r0 | ops ops... |
| 01:21.19 | mr_ab | Worse comes to worse I can just install Debian onto a USB thumb drive I guess but then I have to contend with missing network drivers |
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| 01:22.22 | sney | mr_ab: if you need a rescue disk, the debian installer is not really a good option. try grml instead. |
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| 01:23.13 | sney | even the 'small' 64-bit image has btrfs-tools included, https://grml.org/download/ |
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| 01:24.44 | mr_ab | Its all I have unfortunately.. I'd have to reinstall Debian to a blank disk to download it and copy it to media .. I'm just trying to get access into my data to see if it's totally lost or what, and to potentially pull off my network adapter drivers |
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| 01:25.33 | mr_ab | Err wait i can't even install Debian to a USB disk.. i can but then I'd be without network... I'm up to my neck in catch 22s... I'll check it out tho |
| 01:26.05 | mr_ab | I think I have a network card I can put in there and just wire it into my router for the time being ... |
| 01:28.01 | r0 | ratrace, this machine with debian 7 is FUBAR, so anyway... sorry to bother you guys |
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| 01:28.30 | r0 | going to upgrade the thing... just have to test a few configs |
| 01:28.32 | mr_ab | Err... one question.. can't find answer on Google (surely I'm asking it poorly but).. how do I install a deb or udeb from the installer rescue shell? Doesn't look like dpkg is a valid command here. I'm booted into the installer part.. could try the live cd portion but ? |
| 01:29.14 | sney | mr_ab: iirc there's a menu item (possibly only in expert mode) for 'load additional installer components' or so |
| 01:29.28 | sney | not sure if it's possible from the installer busybox |
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| 01:40.00 | mr_ab | I couldn't get it to work. I'm just going to install Debian to a USB stick as if it were a normal disk and boot off that and work from there. Wish me luck |
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| 01:40.31 | mr_ab | My fault for not having a better contingency plan |
| 01:41.57 | sklei4 | Best wishes to you. |
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| 02:17.34 | w9e2 | trying to customize the appearance of debian, but am seeing some inconsistencies |
| 02:18.24 | w9e2 | one is that I changed the default icons, but some of the icons haven't changed. |
| 02:19.09 | w9e2 | other issue is that some programs are not picking up the window borders set in my theme. could be and issue with some programs using GTK 2 versus GTK 3? |
| 02:19.24 | w9e2 | anyone have ideas on how to fix these? |
| 02:19.32 | w9e2 | im on debian 10 testing running cinnamon DE |
| 02:19.48 | ryouma | does grml-rescueboot update the grml iso or do you have to do that manually? |
| 02:21.19 | sney | w9e2: not a cinnamon user, but I can confirm that there are still gtk2 applications in the archive that might not be cooperating with your theme. for icons, maybe the icon package you installed doesn't cover all of your applications/tools, so they're using fallback defaults. |
| 02:22.06 | w9e2 | sney, i ran debian 10 (non-testing) prior to this the theme covered the applications correctly |
| 02:22.17 | w9e2 | not sure if something has changed in the testing image |
| 02:22.47 | w9e2 | so are the default programs on debian mostly gtk2? im guessing thats what causing the inconsistent appearance |
| 02:23.20 | sney | ok, there is no such thing as "debian 10 testing" - testing is the dev platform for debian 11, so your system has very little in common with debian 10. |
| 02:23.58 | sney | also, debian tries to change upstream software as little as possible. you have cinnamon 4.8.6 on bullseye? steps to customize it are exactly the same as instructions from cinnamon's website for 4.8 |
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| 02:24.32 | w9e2 | thanks for clearing that up, was confused by the testing image, so i guess im on debian 11 testing |
| 02:24.52 | w9e2 | im using cinnamon 4.8.3 |
| 02:24.59 | sney | ,v cinnamon |
| 02:25.01 | judd | Package: cinnamon on amd64 -- jessie: 2.2.16-5; jessie-security: 2.2.16-5+deb8u1; stretch: 3.2.7-4; buster: 3.8.8-1; bullseye: 4.8.6-2; sid: 4.8.6-2 |
| 02:25.20 | sney | apt update, apt upgrade, reboot, test your thing again |
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| 02:25.32 | w9e2 | okay, will try that |
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| 02:27.52 | sney | and no, "the default programs on debian" are not mostly gtk2. when using a gtk desktop env, they'll be mostly gtk3. but there are still some gtk2, like hexchat |
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| 02:28.17 | w9e2 | hexchat seems to work correctly with my theme |
| 02:28.31 | w9e2 | its stuff like gedit and nautilus that dont work properly |
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| 02:30.05 | sney | those are both definitely gtk3. |
| 02:31.07 | w9e2 | it seems like anything that was not preinstalled works correctly |
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| 02:31.24 | awal1 | w9e2, what is the theme inquestion? |
| 02:32.07 | w9e2 | this theme: |
| 02:32.08 | w9e2 | https://github.com/B00merang-Project/Windows-XP |
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| 02:33.14 | sney | oh wow. never thought I'd see luna ported to gtk. takes all kinds, haha |
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| 02:33.34 | awal1 | ok, w9e2 |
| 02:34.16 | w9e2 | sney, i was surprised too, whoever made this theme did an amazing job with it |
| 02:35.49 | awal1 | w9e2, you on stable or testing/sid? |
| 02:36.01 | w9e2 | im on testing |
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| 02:36.19 | w9e2 | although had the same issue on debian 9 and 10 stable |
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| 02:38.00 | awal1 | ok. so , i suggest you adapta gtk theme (eta variant). it is very good |
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| 02:38.33 | w9e2 | awal1, how do I do that? |
| 02:38.37 | awal1 | or mate bluementa |
| 02:39.03 | awal1 | well, they are in main repo |
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| 02:39.46 | awal1 | they are gnu/linux gtk themes, norelation with windows microsoft |
| 02:40.32 | awal1 | not helping you with your initial question but i wanted to suggest... |
| 02:40.35 | awal1 | :) |
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| 02:41.09 | awal1 | ,v adapta-gtk-theme |
| 02:41.10 | judd | Package: adapta-gtk-theme on amd64 -- stretch-backports: 3.95.0.11-1~bpo9+1; buster: 3.95.0.11-1; bullseye: 3.95.0.11-2; sid: 3.95.0.11-2 |
| 02:41.30 | awal1 | ,v mate-themes |
| 02:41.31 | judd | Package: mate-themes on amd64 -- jessie: 1.9.2-1; stretch: 3.22.11-1+deb9u1; stretch-backports: 3.22.18-1~bpo9+1; buster: 3.22.18-1; bullseye: 3.22.21-1; sid: 3.22.21-1 |
| 02:41.36 | JackFrost | sney: THey do a lot of really good themes, Windows-10-Dark is pretty darn good IIRC. |
| 02:42.38 | JackFrost | (Or was it Windows 10 Acrylic Dark?) |
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| 04:03.40 | urk | seems to be no end to my problems trying to install Debian. I just burned the Debian installer using sudo dd if=~/Downloads/debian-live-10.8.0-amd64-xfce+nonfree_stable.iso of=/dev/sdc1 bs=4M, and after formating with sudo mkfs.ext4 /dev/sdc I am now getting an error on the new laptop that there is no bootable device, and wondering why? How do I fix this problem? |
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| 04:04.17 | dvs | urk: wrong |
| 04:04.34 | dvs | =/dev/sdc |
| 04:05.06 | sney | and don't format the usb stick after writing the iso to it, that erases the iso lol |
| 04:05.06 | urk | dvs> The formatting command? |
| 04:05.22 | urk | sney> It was formatted before writing the ISO. |
| 04:05.28 | dvs | urk: that's wrong too. That should be /dev/sdc1 |
| 04:06.03 | dvs | dvs: but since you put the ISO image on it first, the partition table is probably destroyed. |
| 04:06.27 | urk | dvs> No, I didn't put the iso image on it first. Why did you think I put it on first? |
| 04:07.10 | dvs | urk: oh, you did the image second. Sorry. But the image command is still wrong. |
| 04:07.44 | ryouma | there are multiple confusions here and imo best to slow down |
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| 04:08.10 | urk | I was just following the instructions found here https://tecadmin.net/format-usb-in-linux/ |
| 04:08.36 | ryouma | first, i /think/ the idea of an iso is to just put an iso on without doing any partitioning or formatting |
| 04:09.05 | dvs | urk: Yeah, and that web page says /dev/sdc1 |
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| 04:09.20 | ryouma | and i have seen it recommended to just use cp |
| 04:09.20 | abff | most installer iso files have the file system already on it |
| 04:09.39 | abff | and you just write the image directly to the usb |
| 04:09.48 | urk | dvs> Currently lsblk shows only sdc, and not sdc1. The entire drive appears to have been used for the installer. |
| 04:09.52 | SponiX | does matter what method you use if your target device isn't correct -- you are going to have a bad time :P |
| 04:09.58 | ryouma | next, the idea of partitioning is to put filesystems on it with mkfs*. if you do this you can't boot unless you populate the filesystem and get the boot loader on there and so on. |
| 04:10.20 | dvs | urk: that because you did mkfs.ext4 on /dev/sdc, not /dev/sdc1 |
| 04:10.24 | urk | abff> There was stuff on the drive that needed to be cleared off from earlier iso burns. |
| 04:10.51 | abff | urk when you overwrite the usb you'll clobber the old file system |
| 04:10.52 | urk | dvs> jmcnaught previously recommended to use the whole drive so that is why I did it. |
| 04:11.32 | ryouma | perhaps this was referring to an iso rather than a partitioning or mkfs? |
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| 04:11.42 | urk | abff> That was the intent, and the partition was completely full from previous installer attempts. |
| 04:11.47 | jmcnaught | urk: I have told you multiple times to copy the debian ISO image to the device, not a partition. Your dd command does the opposite of that. I have never told you to format the USB stick with mkfs. |
| 04:12.15 | dvs | That's what I thought |
| 04:12.17 | urk | jmcnaught> I did exactly what you said, but apparently sney didn't like it. Not sure why. |
| 04:12.26 | dvs | urk, you did not |
| 04:12.36 | abff | did your computer like it? that's all that matters |
| 04:12.42 | ryouma | hehe |
| 04:12.44 | sney | it's like the things we tell you go into a blender |
| 04:12.57 | dvs | urk, you are confusing the entire disk with a partition on a disk. |
| 04:13.03 | sney | none of this is complicated enough to justify the time spent |
| 04:13.15 | urk | dvs> There are no partitions at this time on /dev/sdc |
| 04:13.28 | jmcnaught | 23:03 < urk> ⦠I just burned the Debian installer using sudo dd if=~/Downloads/debian-live-10.8.0-amd64-xfce+nonfree_stable.iso of=/dev/sdc1 bs=4M |
| 04:13.29 | abff | urk great now copy the iso to the device |
| 04:13.42 | jmcnaught | /dev/sdc1 is a partition. /dev/sdc is a device. |
| 04:13.46 | dvs | urk: because of mkfs.ext4 /dev/sdc which is wrong. That wiped out all partitions. |
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| 04:14.25 | abff | you don't have to do anything after that, the iso already contains a file systwm |
| 04:14.27 | urk | dvs> So what should it be? |
| 04:14.49 | abff | cp if=debian.iso of=/dev/sdc |
| 04:14.54 | jmcnaught | sudo cp ~/Downloads/debian-live-10.8.0-amd64-xfce+nonfree_stable.iso /dev/sdc |
| 04:14.57 | abff | if that is the correct device |
| 04:14.58 | dvs | urk: for the dd command it should be /dev/sdc. for the mkfs.ext4 command it should have been /dev/sdc1 |
| 04:15.02 | urk | I just ran lsblk and the installer appears to be on /dev/sdc, but it won't boot. |
| 04:15.28 | abff | aaaand back to rogue |
| 04:15.30 | abff | bye |
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| 04:20.53 | jmcnaught | urk: did you redo copying the ISO image to USB? |
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| 04:36.13 | urk | jmcnaught> I did, and this time it booted. Not sure what the problem was before. Previous attempts with dd had no problem. I am at a screen that says "This machine's firmware has started the installer in UEFI mode, but it looks like there may be an existing OS already installed using "BIOS compatibility mode". If you continue to install Debian in UEFI mode, it might be difficult to reboot the machine into any BIOS-mode operating |
| 04:36.13 | urk | system later. If you wish to install in UEFI mode, and don't care about keeping the ability to boot one of the existing systems, youhave the option to force that here. If you wish to keep the option to boot an existing OS, you should choose NOT to force UEFI installation here. And then it asks yes or no. |
| 04:36.29 | urk | Incidentally the network card still won't install, but I haven't installed system components as of yet. |
| 04:36.39 | urk | I am going to again force UEFI. |
| 04:38.38 | Druid | good luck urk |
| 04:40.37 | urk | Ok, its installing the system |
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| 04:42.03 | urk | It will be a miracle if it actually works this time. |
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| 04:48.45 | urk | Well, the issue of no firmware is still a problem, but the installer was a lot smoother. |
| 04:49.22 | urk | jmcnaught> So how do I copy this firmware to the disk since there is no prompt for firmware? Should I do this at the shell? |
| 04:50.23 | jmcnaught | urk: finish the installation, boot into the new Debian install, install the .deb files you downloaded from a USB stick using "dpkg -i packagename.deb" |
| 04:53.25 | urk | jmcnaught> I pulled the memory stick out after finishing the install, rebooted, and get an error message indicating no bootable devices found. |
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| 04:57.13 | jmcnaught | urk: did you use guided partitioning? |
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| 04:58.19 | urk | jmcnaught> no |
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| 05:00.18 | urk | You think guided partitioning will make that much of a difference? |
| 05:00.48 | urk | Should I delete the other partitions first before selecting the guided option? |
| 05:02.36 | urk | I'm going to delete the partitions I created, but doubt likely that what I created is the cause of the problem. I think there is more than one thing going on here. I don't think missing firmware is the only problem. It should have booted |
| 05:02.48 | jmcnaught | urk: if you choose "Guided - use entire disk" (with or without LVM) then it will delete the partitions and use a sensible layout. |
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| 05:04.40 | jmcnaught | urk: my basic advice is simplify as much as possible, do as straight-forward an install as you can. For most questions accept the default, but read the questions carefully. Use the guided partitioning. Now that you have copied the Debian ISO to USB correctly there's no reason for it not to work. |
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| 05:06.44 | urk | It should have booted with the last write. |
| 05:06.54 | urk | Its installing the software |
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| 05:07.45 | urk | Originally I just wanted 333 GB set aside for Linux at the beginning of the drive. |
| 05:08.34 | jmcnaught | urk: you have had so much trouble and spent so much time doing this already I think it is worth spending 20-30 minutes doing a quick basic install to verify you can install Debian to this computer. |
| 05:10.48 | urk | jmcnaught> Out of curiousity, which partition is the grub boot loader normally stored in? |
| 05:12.36 | elios | "This is a collection of some of those scripts on a purely subjective and biased basis." who writes this shit? |
| 05:12.37 | jmcnaught | urk: on an UEFI system grub is installed to the EFI System Partition (ESP) which on Debian is normally mounted under /boot/efi |
| 05:12.40 | urk | It booted. Looks like GRUB didn't like something with my previous configuration, but not sure what. |
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| 05:14.48 | jmcnaught | urk: that's good! |
| 05:15.10 | jmcnaught | urk: do you still intend on dual booting with Windows on this computer? |
| 05:15.38 | urk | jmcnaught> I wanted to do a dual boot with linux, OpenBSD, and Windows. It isn't urgent though. |
| 05:15.55 | urk | I am now going to try to install the firmware. |
| 05:18.56 | urk | usb isn't showing up with lsblk |
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| 05:23.50 | urk | sda1 is apparently where the firmware is located at, but I am having trouble mounting the drive. Get an error message indicating its not found in /etc/fstab |
| 05:24.14 | jmcnaught | What command did you use? Did you specify a mount point? |
| 05:26.54 | urk | mount /dev/sda1 which is where the device is |
| 05:27.00 | urk | I am already in root. |
| 05:28.02 | elios | i don't know what to do, but vim leaves artifacts with every other exisitng colorscheme when starting it with `vi` from a virtual terminal. |
| 05:28.12 | jmcnaught | urk: "mount /dev/sda1 /mnt" |
| 05:29.01 | SponiX | elios: cool |
| 05:29.05 | SponiX | elios: got a screen shot ? |
| 05:30.59 | elios | it's basically the background color of your terminal except top and bottom line and where the text is. after [i]nsert it changes line after line. |
| 05:31.02 | urk | usb is detected at root, but not in the gui. |
| 05:31.35 | jmcnaught | urk: "cd /mnt ; ls" |
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| 05:32.06 | elios | vim version is 8.2.2434 |
| 05:33.42 | elios | all i have in there is 'source $VIMRUNTIME/defaults.vim' and 'colorscheme (anything else than default)' |
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| 05:34.17 | jmcnaught | elios: testing/unstable? |
| 05:34.46 | elios | testing, jmcnaught. |
| 05:35.06 | jmcnaught | elios: cool, there's another channel on a different network for testing |
| 05:35.10 | jmcnaught | !debian-next |
| 05:35.10 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc |
| 05:35.21 | elios | right, oftc. |
| 05:37.47 | elios | jmcnaught: do you have to register first? |
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| 05:38.10 | elios | also it says "invite only". |
| 05:39.25 | jmcnaught | elios: are you still on freenode? It's on OFTC. the channel mode there is +cnt so I don't think you need to be registered |
| 05:40.59 | urk | jmcnaught> I attempted to install two of the firmwares with dpkg -i, and i received the folloowing three messages: 1) 'ldconfig' not found in PATH or not in PATH or not executable, 2) 'start-stop-daemon' not found in PATH or not executable, and 3) error: 2 expected programs not found in PATH or not executable. And there was a note at the end that said Note: root's PATH should usually contain /usr/local/sbin, usr/sbin, and /sbin. |
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| 05:42.17 | jmcnaught | urk: you probably became root with the "su" command when you needed to use "su -l" to get a proper root environment including PATH with /sbin. |
| 05:43.00 | jmcnaught | !buster su |
| 05:43.00 | dpkg | In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). See https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes for details. |
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| 05:43.38 | SponiX | jmcnaught: Yeah, can't say I'm in agreement with that, as it is just one more thing to remember and I like sanity "out of the box" :) |
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| 05:44.01 | SponiX | trips people up |
| 05:44.42 | jmcnaught | I always used "su -" before buster because I read somewhere a long time ago it was safer. |
| 05:45.50 | SponiX | I'm one of those nasty Ubuntu base "sudo su" people actually :) |
| 05:46.03 | urk | now I get an error indicating cannot access archive "firmware-iwlwifi'; No such file or directory |
| 05:46.16 | jmcnaught | SponiX: I use "sudo -i" |
| 05:46.23 | urk | I am at root@localhost:/mnt# |
| 05:46.44 | jmcnaught | urk: what is the command that you used? |
| 05:47.01 | urk | dpkg -i and the two firmware file names |
| 05:47.01 | dpkg | removes a kidney from urk and replaces it with and the two firmware file names |
| 05:47.59 | jmcnaught | urk: do them one at a time, use <TAB> completion to make sure the filename is correct |
| 05:49.40 | ryouma | i thought it was necessary so the factoid is confusing --- 22:44 <jmcnaught> I always used "su -" before buster because I read somewhere a long time ago it was safer. |
| 05:49.51 | ryouma | i.e. i thought it always was what it sayd |
| 05:51.21 | urk | jmcnaught> ok, both are installed. |
| 05:52.15 | jmcnaught | urk: did you also install linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.3-amd64_5.10.13-1~bpo10+1_amd64.deb ? |
| 05:53.35 | urk | yes, that is one of the two files I installed. |
| 05:54.36 | urk | Am I missing a file? |
| 05:55.22 | jmcnaught | urk: if you installed both linux-imageâ¦amd64.deb and firmware-iwlwifiâ¦deb you could reboot and try using wifi (I don't know if you installed a GUI or not) |
| 05:55.48 | jmcnaught | urk: I had previously also recommended installing firmware-misc-nonfree but you can do that after you get networking working. |
| 05:56.09 | jmcnaught | urk: if you did not install a GUI then you may need to install additional packages to get wifi working, like wpasupplicant |
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| 05:57.21 | urk | lost the entire menu bar after booting. |
| 06:00.02 | urk | I was able to get the command line to come up, but most of the desktop is gone. |
| 06:00.39 | jmcnaught | urk: I don't know what that is about, maybe try creating a new user see if they have a menu bar. |
| 06:00.47 | jmcnaught | urk: which desktop environment is that? |
| 06:01.13 | urk | xfce |
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| 06:02.54 | jmcnaught | I don't know xfce very well, I use GNOME. But my first instinct would be to right-click somewhere on the desktop to see if there's a context menu that lets you add a new menu bar. |
| 06:04.33 | ndorf | yep |
| 06:04.49 | ndorf | right click desktop, then select Applications -> Settings -> Panel |
| 06:05.21 | abff | alt+f3 is the default keyboard shortcut to open the application selector too |
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| 06:12.27 | urk | panel has returned. |
| 06:13.47 | urk | Its getting really late, and I will need to continue this tomorrow. I took note of your recommendation to install wpasupplicant, and firmware-misc-nonfree. |
| 06:14.37 | urk | I just checked and wpasupplicant is already installed. |
| 06:15.21 | jmcnaught | urk: that's good, and nice progress today. You might have everything you need installed to connect to a wifi network now. You will probably still need to configure /etc/apt/sources.list |
| 06:16.18 | urk | jmcnaught> Still not getting any wifi detection. |
| 06:17.13 | urk | At this point I only have vi to work with so installing wifi would allow me to install vim |
| 06:18.15 | urk | I should be able to the sources.list without help. but not sure what to think of the missing wifi |
| 06:19.31 | jmcnaught | I am sure that you will figure it out tomorrow. |
| 06:19.41 | urk | Thanks again for all of your help. |
| 06:19.49 | jmcnaught | You're welcome. |
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| 07:08.15 | MegaCarp | im on debian 10 xfce logging with remmina onto a xrdp server. let's say my physical pc hangs and i want to reboot it but i'm stuck looking at remote rdp session. i press alt+sysrq SUB to reboot - can it possibly do anything with xrdp session? i'm sure it won't reboot the server but could it possibly pass through the remmina to reboot the remote session and have me lose some work? |
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| 07:42.00 | jolt | MegaCarp: that sounds like an exotic setup. I think you will have to try it to find out. I have a hard time beliving that alt+sysrq would trigger anything remote, but I dunno. |
| 07:42.31 | jolt | Install a vm and test it on there? |
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| 07:44.29 | MegaCarp | jolt: uh, if you think that it's exotic then there has been a miscommunication: there's a server with xrdp. people log onto it with remmina using RDP. it can pass through hotkeys so I was wondering what would sysrq+SUB do in the described situation |
| 07:45.01 | MegaCarp | a vm test makes sense, thanks, though it would take time to set up... i suppose this is as good time as any to learn debian scripted install |
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| 07:50.42 | jolt | MegaCarp: preseed is easy! Get a preseed file, put on webserver, select automated install in the installer, point to the server and boom, done! |
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| 07:56.38 | abff | MegaCarp: this sounds like a question for a windows person. I can't find anything that says RDP will ignore sysreq key presses. |
| 07:57.59 | abff | Maybe xrdp will ignore them instead, for safety. I'll keep looking |
| 07:58.00 | MegaCarp | abff: xrdp is on debian server. client machines are (mostly) using remmina, the protocol used is RDP - we're not talking about WINRD |
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| 07:58.22 | abff | ohhh Right remmina |
| 07:58.25 | abff | my bad |
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| 08:01.32 | jaggz | anyone know how I can get my hands on cuda samples dir? |
| 08:01.54 | jaggz | This project is looking for it, and its test is to look in the cuda toolkit directory for a folder "samples/" |
| 08:01.58 | MegaCarp | abff: i strongly expect it wouldn't touch the server - it'd be insanity otherwise. but i also care about the user session - i don't want to lose even stupid stuff like opened tabs if it can be avoided. i, basically, want to know if i should be telling users to use sysrq+SUB or press the power button |
| 08:02.07 | jaggz | It then proceeds to use that as an include path with "samples/common/inc" |
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| 08:03.34 | MegaCarp | jolt: i'm an advanced noob, is there a step-by-step guide however i should put it onto a webserver? like, would gist work?... i probably don't want gist - it'd expose personal information. |
| 08:03.36 | abff | MegaCarp: fair enough |
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| 08:23.56 | Nindustries | Is squid 5.x already on Debian bullseye? Can't seem to find it. |
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| 08:25.18 | epsilon | Nindustries: pdo says 4.13 |
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| 08:28.06 | Nindustries | Shucks. |
| 08:29.32 | Nindustries | In other news: anyone used squid in transparent mode? I'm getting ERROR: NF getsockopt(ORIGINAL_DST) failed on local=172.17.0.2:3129 remote=172.17.0.1:61146 FD 13 flags=33: (2) No such file or directory |
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| 08:48.46 | ueb | Hello |
| 08:49.31 | ueb | yesterday I upgraded my distro, and I'm noticing that free space available is less |
| 08:50.13 | ueb | "apt-get clean" removed only little space |
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| 08:51.48 | ueb | "apt-get autoremove" same thing |
| 08:53.42 | ueb | I see 3 kernels: linux-image-3.16.0-4-amd64 (install), linux-image-4.9.0-14-amd64 (install), linux-image-amd64 (install) |
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| 09:02.11 | elios | what kernel are you using right now? |
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| 09:05.52 | ueb | however I think that kernels are only few MBs... isn't it? |
| 09:06.06 | elios | ...and shouldn't it be 4.19.0-14? |
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| 09:07.43 | elios | meanwhile, artifacts. |
| 09:08.33 | ueb | 4.9.0-14-amd64 |
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| 09:08.57 | elios | then remove the other one |
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| 09:10.47 | ueb | the file initrd.img-3.16.0-4-amd64 is only 15Mb |
| 09:10.53 | elios | purge linux-image-3.16[tab]; apt autoclean; apt autoremove; apt install -f |
| 09:11.57 | ueb | any way to see used space by linux-image-3.16 ? |
| 09:12.31 | Nindustries | Hmm, iptalbes on bullseye. iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp --dport 80 -j REDIRECT --to 3128 -w  -> returns unknown option "--dport". Any clue? |
| 09:12.36 | Nindustries | iptables that is* |
| 09:13.35 | elios | ueb: look in /boot ? |
| 09:13.48 | elios | ls -lah |
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| 09:14.12 | ueb | I see only little file in /boot |
| 09:17.27 | elios | just remove the kernel you don't need and then clean up |
| 09:17.33 | elios | dont* |
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| 09:22.32 | eblip | test |
| 09:22.55 | eblip | hey im trying to find out if there is a wallet on debian for ada cardano |
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| 09:24.05 | eb0t | test |
| 09:24.29 | ksk | eblip: Since it is not part of Debian, but third party software, contact its "vendor", or the project. |
| 09:24.56 | eblip | good idea |
| 09:25.36 | ksk | most, if not all (reasonable legit) cryptocurrency projects do offer linux wallets / daemons. |
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| 09:26.45 | eblip | ok thanks |
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| 09:30.42 | TheBigK | eblip: i would say the download page of the project has a wallet that u can download |
| 09:31.01 | TheBigK | is a bin file... so no debian package... but atleast its tested against ubuntu. so the chances are high that it works on debian too |
| 09:31.22 | eblip | yes i just found one there TheBigK ..but i got a wallet from debian called electrum for bitcoin |
| 09:31.37 | eblip | so just thought id ask in case i was missing something with a weird name |
| 09:32.02 | eblip | yes ..need a fair bit of space but thats all good..10gig |
| 09:32.26 | eblip | thanks |
| 09:32.29 | TheBigK | eblip: im no crypto guy ... and im not sure if i want to... for me it looks like a big waste of energy |
| 09:32.51 | eblip | yes i think it really is terrible for that ..but i like to trade it |
| 09:33.18 | eblip | but it would have been better to just hold it |
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| 09:41.50 | ksk | eblip: electrum is a bitcoin wallet as far as I know. You will need a specific wallet for every coin you want to hold. |
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| 09:42.15 | eblip | yes electrum does the bitcoin and i need daedlus for ada |
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| 11:04.30 | NetTerminalGene | anyone using handbrake here? i want to use gpu encoding (intel quick sync). anyone know how to? |
| 11:05.04 | NetTerminalGene | do handbrake on debian even support it? |
| 11:06.46 | H4ndy | NetTerminalGene: documentation says that QSV is supported on Linux https://handbrake.fr/docs/en/latest/technical/video-qsv.html |
| 11:07.22 | NetTerminalGene | H4ndy: yes, but i don't see any options for that |
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| 11:11.48 | H4ndy | do you have a supported CPU? |
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| 11:12.06 | H4ndy | they recommend their Flatpak distribution for best compatibility |
| 11:12.46 | jelly | NetTerminalGene, you will need non-free encoder package probably |
| 11:13.00 | jelly | let me see if I can remember the name |
| 11:13.03 | NetTerminalGene | i have supported intel cpu |
| 11:13.12 | NetTerminalGene | jelly: i know its name |
| 11:13.22 | jelly | ,i intel-media-va-driver-non-free |
| 11:13.23 | judd | Package intel-media-va-driver-non-free (non-free/video, optional) in buster/amd64: VAAPI driver for the Intel GEN8+ Graphics family. Version: 18.4.1+ds1-1; Size: 3739.0k; Installed: 27519k; Homepage: https://github.com/intel/media-driver |
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| 11:13.29 | jelly | that thing? |
| 11:13.32 | NetTerminalGene | but would it activate any option in handbrake |
| 11:13.39 | jelly | !tias |
| 11:13.39 | dpkg | TIAS is "Try It And See". |
| 11:13.56 | jelly | NetTerminalGene, what does your "vainfo" show right now |
| 11:14.21 | NetTerminalGene | i don't have that command |
| 11:14.46 | NetTerminalGene | but i can't watch videos with vlc hw accel |
| 11:14.51 | jelly | install it if you want to know which VAAPI decoders/encoders are available |
| 11:14.52 | NetTerminalGene | i can watch* |
| 11:15.22 | jelly | watching videos is just decoding. |
| 11:16.00 | jelly | NetTerminalGene, which CPU model is in there? |
| 11:16.40 | NetTerminalGene | i5 7400 |
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| 11:19.00 | jelly | I'm... not sure whether you're going to gain HEVC encoding there. VP9 probably not. H264 for sure. |
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| 11:23.35 | H4ndy | Seems to support h264, HEVC and VP9 https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/uhd_graphics/630 |
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| 11:29.29 | jelly | oh then it's the same as i5-8xxx |
| 11:30.28 | jelly | H4ndy, but that page doesn't list i5-7xxx |
| 11:30.30 | genr8 | surprise all intel chips are the same for the past 6 years ;P |
| 11:30.53 | H4ndy | Coffee Lake is a Kaby Lake refresh and they use the same GPU |
| 11:31.15 | H4ndy | both list the HD 630 as their GPU |
| 11:31.43 | H4ndy | > The UHD Graphics 630 is simply a rebranding and is otherwise identical to the HD Graphics 630 found in desktop Kaby Lake processors. |
| 11:32.51 | jelly | eh |
| 11:33.40 | jelly | then it ought to support the exact same stuff as this i5-8365U laptop I'm writing from |
| 11:34.40 | jelly | NetTerminalGene, install vainfo, show output before installing intel-media-va-driver-non-free and after |
| 11:34.52 | genr8 | whats the point of using the onboard GPU to encode. reduce cpu usage ? |
| 11:35.00 | NetTerminalGene | i5 7400 have HD 630, nıt UHD |
| 11:35.13 | jelly | the free i965-va-driver won't have all the encoding stuff |
| 11:35.15 | NetTerminalGene | genr8: faster |
| 11:35.25 | genr8 | i find that hard to believe |
| 11:35.27 | jelly | both of those. |
| 11:36.09 | jelly | genr8, there are more GPU shaders to feed numbers into than there are AVX in the CPU, apparently |
| 11:36.49 | genr8 | ill believe it when i see it |
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| 11:39.12 | genr8 | i feel like its a power consumption or efficiency thing |
| 11:39.21 | jelly | of course it is |
| 11:40.03 | genr8 | a multi-core CPU would beat a little intel gpu, cause think about it, it beats even a full fledged nvidia NVEnc |
| 11:40.49 | jelly | which is why !tias |
| 11:42.11 | jelly | I have not tried to use any encoding, except within a browser for video meetings and it was a bit of a pain to coerce chrome to think there's hw accel encoding there |
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| 11:42.59 | koollman | genr8: the advantage is definitely mostly speed |
| 11:44.10 | genr8 | does it use both or something ? |
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| 11:45.19 | koollman | genr8: for some examples, you can look there: https://handbrake.fr/docs/en/1.3.0/technical/performance.html . note that the 'software' speed are using a xeon E5-2699v4. not last gen, but still a pretty fast 22 core beast |
| 11:45.55 | koollman | it's likely to be faster than most cpu found in regular computers todays |
| 11:48.49 | genr8 | seems to be a big diff on H265, but maybe +15% on H264 |
| 11:48.54 | jelly | probably doesn't have to use both, just to have the more efficient option, whatever it is, until it reaches TDP |
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| 11:49.26 | koollman | genr8: versus a 22 core cpu, yes. |
| 11:49.48 | koollman | genr8: now, if you have something slower than that (or a gpu faster than the gtx 1060 used in the comparison), the gap wides |
| 11:49.54 | koollman | *widens |
| 11:51.53 | koollman | using both on the same stream would be weird/hard. they aren't doing the exact same thing, and most modern encoders rely on rather few reference pictures. basically you would encode small segments of the video and paste them together at the end, but it would magnify any difference in encoding artefact when going from a segment to the next |
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| 12:00.33 | genr8 | well that was interesting |
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| 13:07.44 | oxek | what's a realistic thing I can do when there's the unfortunate situation where a package has a CVE fixed in buster-stable, but the version in buster-backports has not been fixed in months? |
| 13:12.27 | ratrace | oxek: ping the maintainer, file a bug report, do it yourself; perhaps in that order of preference |
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| 13:14.53 | oxek | I'll try that, thanks |
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| 13:22.57 | Jenkler | Noob question, I am unable to install hexchat in buster? |
| 13:23.45 | Jenkler | deb https://deb.debian.org/debian stable main |
| 13:23.46 | Jenkler | deb https://deb.debian.org/debian-security stable/updates main |
| 13:24.15 | oerheks | hexchat is in the universe repo |
| 13:24.16 | Jenkler | Is that correct or do I need to update any keys? |
| 13:25.31 | Jenkler | oerheks when do I need to run this command apt-key adv --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv-keys |
| 13:26.20 | Jenkler | I had xchat before with only https://deb.debian.org/debian and https://deb.debian.org/debian-security |
| 13:26.45 | oerheks | err don't use ubuntu keys on debian |
| 13:26.49 | ratrace | oxek: wrong channel bud :) |
| 13:27.02 | oxek | huh? |
| 13:27.04 | ratrace | oerheks: ^^^ (sorry oxek) |
| 13:27.11 | oxek | ah, no probs |
| 13:27.37 | Jenkler | is it possible to install ubunto pkg in buster ? |
| 13:27.51 | Jenkler | I cant figure out why it worked before |
| 13:27.52 | oxek | Jenkler: no need, hexchat is in debian repos |
| 13:27.59 | oxek | ,v hexchat |
| 13:28.00 | judd | Package: hexchat on amd64 -- jessie: 2.10.1-1+deb8u2; stretch: 2.12.4-3; stretch-backports: 2.14.2-4~bpo9+1; buster: 2.14.2-4; bullseye: 2.14.3-5; sid: 2.14.3-5 |
| 13:28.01 | ratrace | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:28.30 | Jenkler | but I am unable to install it. apt-cache search does not find any hexchat |
| 13:28.37 | oxek | !bat |
| 13:28.37 | dpkg | [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use https://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>. |
| 13:28.41 | oxek | Jenkler: read that^ |
| 13:28.47 | oxek | and tell us what you've tried so far |
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| 13:30.47 | Jenkler | https://paste.debian.net/1187642/ |
| 13:32.01 | Jenkler | oxek shuld i be able to find hexchat with standard buster sources. As you can se I cant find anything. Wonder if ther is a key issue or something |
| 13:32.07 | Jenkler | *should |
| 13:32.36 | SoundShaman | Jenkler, did you try installing it via terminal? |
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| 13:32.54 | Jenkler | yes, check my pastebin |
| 13:32.56 | SoundShaman | if so did you type the right command? |
| 13:32.58 | SoundShaman | oh ok |
| 13:33.14 | ratrace | Jenkler: you ran apt update just in case? |
| 13:33.20 | oxek | on a first look, it indeed looks strange |
| 13:33.24 | ratrace | ah yes... you did |
| 13:33.26 | oxek | ratrace: they did run apt update in that paste |
| 13:34.14 | milkt | Jenkler: is there something in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ ? |
| 13:34.20 | SoundShaman | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:34.37 | oxek | SoundShaman: they have it in the paste |
| 13:34.39 | ratrace | no sudo needed, they're already root |
| 13:34.43 | Jenkler | I am root |
| 13:34.44 | SoundShaman | oh ok |
| 13:34.49 | Jenkler | no sudo needed |
| 13:34.57 | SoundShaman | i didn't see that but i do now |
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| 13:35.01 | Jenkler | is may keys correct? |
| 13:35.04 | Jenkler | https://paste.debian.net/1187645/ |
| 13:35.16 | Jenkler | *are |
| 13:35.29 | oxek | yes, the keys are fine, you'd already get an error otherwise |
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| 13:36.02 | milkt | Jenkler: try only with debian repo? |
| 13:36.36 | oxek | Jenkler: `apt policy` and then `apt policy hexchat` |
| 13:37.37 | oxek | the only thing I can think of right now would be that the official debian repo would have a very low (negative?) pin |
| 13:37.43 | Jenkler | https://paste.debian.net/1187646/ |
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| 13:38.26 | oxek | well, I'm at a loss, someone more knowledgeable than me has to notice this |
| 13:39.07 | ratrace | one possibility is that whatever mirror was fed via deb.debian.org redirector, is maybe borked |
| 13:39.28 | oxek | deb.debian.org is a cdn, no? |
| 13:39.36 | ratrace | it's possible, due to anycast or whatever method is used by the redirector, that the same mirror is being hit always |
| 13:40.04 | Jenkler | how do I change mirror? |
| 13:40.05 | ratrace | oxek: afaik it's a redirector. the CDN has different URL if I'm not mistaken |
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| 13:40.50 | ratrace | Jenkler: use any of these: https://www.debian.org/mirror/list |
| 13:40.55 | oxek | ratrace: https://deb.debian.org/ says it's fastly and cloudfront |
| 13:41.17 | oxek | there used to be httpredir.debian.org that was briefly renamed to deb.debian.org, but it's gone now |
| 13:41.17 | ratrace | oxek: which also works via anycast methinks |
| 13:41.38 | Jenkler | Do I do this in sources.list? |
| 13:41.41 | ratrace | yes |
| 13:42.00 | ratrace | change the URL of deb.debian.org to whichever mirror you want, and re-run apt update |
| 13:43.04 | oxek | ratrace: but if `apt update` successfully completes, then it shouldn't matter which mirror one is using, `apt-cache search hexchat` should return the correct result |
| 13:43.29 | ratrace | update can be successful with broken, corrupt, incomplete database |
| 13:43.48 | ratrace | it's just a theory based on previous experience. give it a shot, worst case it won't fix anything. |
| 13:43.56 | oxek | oh really? |
| 13:44.12 | oxek | I always got some messages from apt whenever there was something wrong with either the remote server or local database |
| 13:44.33 | ratrace | oxek: well if apt gets a file in valid format, it has no clue whether the list is complete or incomplete, and assumes that's all there is |
| 13:45.11 | oxek | ratrace: is my understanding correct that the file retrieved by `apt update` is generated by debian people, and then mirrored on the mirrors? I.e. it is not generated by the mirrors themselves? |
| 13:45.24 | ratrace | that's my understanding as well |
| 13:45.45 | oxek | if that's the case, then if the file was borked, then it would affect all mirrors, and we'd already have a bunch of people in here with broken setups |
| 13:46.02 | ratrace | no. in theory, it's possible one or more mirrors are serving stale files |
| 13:46.18 | oxek | but apt-cache search is happening locally, no? |
| 13:46.23 | ratrace | or there was incomplete database generation, sent to mirrors, corrected and completed, re-sent to mirrors but not all synced up the new version |
| 13:46.50 | ratrace | it's searching in the database fetched by apt update |
| 13:47.17 | jhutchins | !mirror status |
| 13:47.17 | dpkg | Debian mirrors have timestamp files we use to determine how recently they have been updated. Here are some statistics the mirror maintainers provide: https://mirror-master.debian.org/status/mirror-status.html and http://ftp.de.debian.org/dmc/today/ Ask me about <mirrors>. #debian-mirrors on irc.oftc.net. |
| 13:47.24 | oxek | I suppose you're right, if the file was generated incorrectly, sent to mirrors, then fixed and sent to mirrors again, there would be a brief time when things are borked |
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| 13:48.11 | ratrace | it's a plausible explanation for apt not barking about invalid database and not finding the package in it. |
| 13:48.39 | TheBigK | is someone of u running ipvs loadbalancer on debian basis? im considering it for a test case... what kind of failover method would u recommend. more like keepalive or more like something else |
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| 13:49.20 | ratrace | I use DNS failover, because IP failover would still have the standby behind the same router in the same datacenter, in my case, so DNS is more complete |
| 13:49.48 | oxek | Jenkler: let us know your progress, I've never seen this happen before |
| 13:50.29 | Jenkler | is this correct ; deb http://ftp.se.debian.org/debian stable main |
| 13:50.45 | Jenkler | it complain when updateing |
| 13:50.57 | TheBigK | Jenkler: whats the error |
| 13:51.45 | ratrace | as another possiblity, there could be a transparent proxy in their network somewhere, serving stale data |
| 13:51.51 | Jenkler | https://paste.debian.net/1187650/ |
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| 13:52.25 | oxek | ratrace: they are using httpS://deb.debian.org, unlikely there'd be a transparent proxy (unless they imported the proxy certs) |
| 13:52.44 | ratrace | or their network forces a "company CA" or sumfin like that |
| 13:52.50 | TheBigK | Jenkler: the issue is not related to that mirror i would say |
| 13:52.55 | ratrace | just a theoretical possibility, needn't be a likely one :) |
| 13:53.15 | oxek | Jenkler: you can ignore that error for now, it's just that debian-security is not mirrored anywhere |
| 13:53.36 | oxek | (except for deb.debian.org) |
| 13:54.00 | oxek | more importantly, can you install hexchat now? |
| 13:54.08 | ratrace | or instead of ignoring, configure the security repo correctly: http://security.debian.org/debian-security stable/updates ... |
| 13:54.51 | oxek | ratrace is right. Hexchat is however available from the normal repos now, there's no package on debian-security for it |
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| 13:55.25 | Jenkler | https://paste.debian.net/1187651/ |
| 13:55.46 | Jenkler | now it works, so the main mirror is broken then |
| 13:55.48 | ratrace | well there... |
| 13:56.04 | TheBigK | ratrace: i would recommend using buster/updates ... u dont want automatic dist-upgrades usually :) |
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| 13:56.18 | ratrace | TheBigK: right, better idea |
| 13:56.56 | ratrace | I was just going by the pattern they already have had configured, assumed they wanted that specifically |
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| 13:57.14 | TheBigK | ratrace: ah okay. didnt see the chat above. sorry |
| 13:57.17 | oxek | this is the sources.list I'm using https://0x0.st/-Pow.txt and I'm surprised that it would not work |
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| 13:58.53 | Jenkler | Why not use stable |
| 13:59.16 | Jenkler | if I use buster then I dont get any dist-upgrades right? |
| 13:59.17 | oxek | Jenkler: because you'll automatically get upgraded to bullseye when bullseye becomes stable |
| 13:59.37 | Jenkler | oxek is that somthing bad? |
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| 13:59.43 | Jenkler | Its stable right? |
| 13:59.56 | oxek | in debian, stable != doesn't crash |
| 13:59.59 | oxek | stable = doesn't change |
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| 14:00.15 | oxek | so I'd say automatically upgrading to a newer release is a problem |
| 14:00.19 | oxek | if you don't plan for it |
| 14:00.57 | oxek | I prefer to upgrade on my terms. |
| 14:00.59 | Jenkler | can I go back now from stable to buster again |
| 14:01.04 | oxek | grumbles about snap |
| 14:01.23 | oxek | Jenkler: yes, right now you can easily change the word 'stable' to 'buster' and nothing will break |
| 14:02.22 | Jenkler | whats the diffrence between stable and buster right now? Both is debian 10? |
| 14:02.35 | oxek | no difference, both are debian 10 |
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| 14:03.05 | oxek | the only difference is that once bullseye (debian 11) is officially released, then 'stable' will upgrade to bullseye, whereas buster will keep on being buster |
| 14:03.35 | TheBigK | and version changes might break things depending what u run on ur machine |
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| 14:04.06 | Jenkler | ok, but when I changed from buster to stable a few packages was updated |
| 14:04.26 | TheBigK | stable is a symlink... that makes no sense ;D |
| 14:04.34 | oxek | Jenkler: probably just a fresher repo, that's all |
| 14:06.30 | Jenkler | oxek ahh;) |
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| 14:08.39 | Jenkler | Everything seams to work now, thanks for the help ;) |
| 14:08.48 | ratrace | Jenkler: btw, dunno if you're aware, but you're apparently missing the buster-updates repo |
| 14:08.54 | oxek | Jenkler: you still ran into some reaslly strange case |
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| 14:09.23 | Jenkler | heeh, yes. I am used to Gentoo and Alpine Linux |
| 14:09.53 | Jenkler | But on chromebooks debian is default in Linux beta |
| 14:10.05 | oxek | is that debian installation some docker/lxc/lxd thing? |
| 14:10.20 | Jenkler | jepp, its lxd |
| 14:10.21 | TheBigK | Jenkler: i used to use gentoo as 64bit for me was a thing... i thought... gentoo was so well documented... reminds me alot of archlinux these days |
| 14:10.38 | oxek | yeah, I noticed that LXD does not include the buster-updates repo in the sources.list |
| 14:10.40 | oxek | don't really know why |
| 14:10.46 | ratrace | The Alot reminds a lot of people, frequently, yes. |
| 14:10.46 | Jenkler | I mostly use Alpine now |
| 14:11.21 | TheBigK | Jenkler: i just come across it inside docker. im not rly sure what i should think about alpine... didnt give it a real shot yet |
| 14:11.27 | ratrace | oxek: by that you mean some LXD default image somwhere in some hub? |
| 14:11.30 | Jenkler | oxek how do I add buster-updates |
| 14:11.39 | ratrace | !sources.list |
| 14:11.39 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main", and optionally "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <buster/updates> <buster-updates> and "man sources.list". |
| 14:11.52 | Jenkler | is it like main |
| 14:12.09 | oxek | Jenkler: my sources.list https://0x0.st/-Pow.txt |
| 14:12.11 | ratrace | the buster/updates vs buster-updates confusion will be resolved with bullseye, where bullseye/updates will be no more, just bullseye-security instead of it |
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| 14:12.27 | oxek | ratrace: yes, the default debian images distributed by lxc/lxd |
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| 14:12.39 | ratrace | oxek: canonical asshattery strikes again |
| 14:13.16 | oxek | well, buster-updates is not really critical, unless you have issues with CA certificates or timezones |
| 14:13.44 | oxek | unfortunately I had issues with both :D |
| 14:13.53 | Jenkler | oxek so, i can skip buster-updates if I dont have any issue |
| 14:14.01 | ratrace | everyone did, that's why buster-updates is important :) |
| 14:14.04 | Jenkler | oxek ahh |
| 14:14.13 | oxek | Jenkler: I'd put the buster-updates repo in |
| 14:14.21 | oxek | you can live without it, but it's better to have it |
| 14:14.35 | Jenkler | oxek ok |
| 14:14.42 | Jenkler | thanks |
| 14:15.30 | tcurdt | I am not so eager - but any thoughts on running a backport of a newer version of systemd on buster? |
| 14:15.37 | tcurdt | I am struggeling to point dns resolving to a different service (consul) |
| 14:15.47 | oxek | still this whole situation made me wonder a bit about what went wrong that deb.debian.org did not have hexchat listed |
| 14:16.13 | oxek | tcurdt: remove systemd-resolvd (or whatever it's named) and use something more reasonable |
| 14:16.22 | Jenkler | maybe stable is broken ;) |
| 14:16.26 | oxek | using systemd from backports sounds like asking for trouble |
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| 14:17.00 | oxek | I'm not bashing systemd here btw. |
| 14:17.05 | tcurdt | oxek: it totally does ... hence me asking here first :) |
| 14:17.29 | tcurdt | oxek: well, don't get me started ;) can't say I am a huge fan |
| 14:17.30 | ratrace | backports should really be used sparingly and exceptionally, being aware of all its drawbacks |
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| 14:17.54 | Jenkler | does the order in sources.list matter? |
| 14:18.00 | oxek | Jenkler: no |
| 14:18.08 | tcurdt | ok, then I'll try to convice systemd to not mingle with the dns first |
| 14:18.19 | tcurdt | wasn't sure that's so easy |
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| 14:18.58 | ratrace | wait wait, does this mean systemd-resoved will be used by default on bullseye? |
| 14:19.41 | oxek | ratrace: it already is, isn't it? Unless you have NetworkManager installed. |
| 14:19.57 | ratrace | afaik no |
| 14:20.09 | tcurdt | hm ... I don't see ... "dpkg -l | grep systemd" doesn't list it for me on buster |
| 14:20.17 | ratrace | if by already you mean buster. |
| 14:20.27 | ratrace | tcurdt: list what? |
| 14:20.44 | tcurdt | systemd-resoved ... or whatever the exact name is |
| 14:20.48 | ratrace | it's not a separate package. it's a service. systemd-resolved.service |
| 14:20.54 | tcurdt | aaaah .... ok |
| 14:20.56 | oxek | `systemctl status systemd-resolved` |
| 14:21.26 | ratrace | I'd recommend masking it and setting up your resolving somehow else (bind, unbound, dnsmasq, none at all (use external resolver)) |
| 14:21.49 | oxek | does systemd as a whole now have more lines of code than the linux kernel? I thought I read something like that, but don't know if it was a joke or not |
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| 14:22.47 | tcurdt | systemctl status systemd-resolved is "inactive (dead)" ... I assume that's related to me installing dnsmasq already |
| 14:22.49 | ratrace | it wouldn't be unusual that a whole project with various programs and utilities is bigger than the kernel, no? |
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| 14:23.17 | oxek | in terms of lines of code? Would strike me as unusual. |
| 14:23.25 | Jenkler | Nice, i am back with hexchat |
| 14:23.27 | Jenkler | ;) |
| 14:23.47 | oxek | Jenkler: congrats. What were you using before anyway? |
| 14:24.03 | Jenkler | oxek, yes. |
| 14:24.10 | ratrace | lol |
| 14:24.15 | oxek | :D |
| 14:24.16 | Jenkler | My linux beta got currupted |
| 14:24.36 | Jenkler | reinstalled everything, disk full issue hehe |
| 14:24.58 | ratrace | oxek: chromium has more lines of code than the kernel. so a operating system middleware project having too, isn't surprising |
| 14:25.41 | oxek | huh, I guess operating systems are really simple then ;) |
| 14:26.03 | ratrace | linux kernel is not an operating system tho ;) |
| 14:26.09 | oxek | yeah, I misspoke |
| 14:26.17 | ratrace | unless you mean linux + middleware (systemd) + gnu parts |
| 14:26.24 | oxek | it's GNU/Linux! |
| 14:26.31 | ratrace | was GNU/Linux |
| 14:26.41 | oxek | GNU/systemd/Linux now? :p |
| 14:26.47 | ratrace | these days it'd be very, very hypocritical to call it GNU/Linux |
| 14:27.24 | oxek | to be fair, I don't really know the story of why it would be called GNU/Linux, and it doesn't sound like a technical distinction that would matter to me |
| 14:27.42 | dreamer | because linux is only the kernel |
| 14:27.49 | dreamer | and most of the tooling around it is GNU |
| 14:28.06 | ratrace | well some time ago RMS felt hurt that everyone called the distro "Linux" while that was just the kernel and userland was borrowed from GNU |
| 14:28.15 | dreamer | "borrowed"? :P |
| 14:28.20 | dreamer | I mean GNU nearly had a full OS |
| 14:28.25 | dreamer | they just needed a working kernel |
| 14:28.29 | oxek | Hurd! |
| 14:28.40 | dreamer | and here comes Linus Torvalds with his little pet project that he opensourced |
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| 14:28.45 | oxek | maybe a pity that kfreebsd/debian and khurd/debian are no more |
| 14:28.50 | dreamer | hmhm |
| 14:28.54 | dreamer | was cool that this was possible |
| 14:28.57 | dreamer | gnu/freebsd :P |
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| 14:29.13 | ratrace | define "OS" tho. and how much of that is provided by systemd these days. and soon LLVM might completely displace GCC so it'd be even less of GNU/Linux unles "GNU" is just one of the components in the full name :) |
| 14:29.19 | ychaouche | yo debianeros |
| 14:29.45 | dreamer | how is LLVM going to replace GCC exactly? |
| 14:29.47 | ychaouche | I'm looking for a xtables-addons-dkms package in buster, can't find it |
| 14:30.01 | ratrace | dreamer: by being preferred compiler for .... everything |
| 14:30.03 | oxek | dreamer: kernel can be successfully compiled with llvm instead of gcc now |
| 14:30.11 | dreamer | is it though? |
| 14:30.25 | oxek | llvm is neat |
| 14:30.38 | ychaouche | I used this module in jessie for geoip fencing |
| 14:30.48 | oxek | I get all sorts of new warnings for my code to ignore :D |
| 14:30.56 | dreamer | hehe |
| 14:32.23 | oxek | "Look, when we compile this code with llvm, it gives us so many new warnings to indicate possible bugs", "Neat. *adds those warnings to ignore list*" |
| 14:32.26 | ratrace | dreamer: it's not yet but it's getting there. distros are using LLVM more and more, eg. Mandriva is using it as default, Fedora is considering, there's effort to make the kenrel fully compileable by LLVM, etc... |
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| 14:33.16 | dreamer | should we want to, though? |
| 14:33.20 | dreamer | I mean I'm all for compiler freedom :P |
| 14:33.21 | ratrace | oxek: LLVM can't make bad developers into good ones, though :) |
| 14:33.26 | oxek | I guess it can indicate something good about a product if it compiles with both gcc and llvm, without warnings from either |
| 14:33.47 | dreamer | most projects I see/use still use gcc |
| 14:33.58 | dreamer | mandriva never mattered to anyone, really |
| 14:34.04 | oxek | electron will take over anyway |
| 14:34.12 | dreamer | and fedora .. who cares about silly hats :P |
| 14:34.18 | dreamer | yeah everything is a browser these days |
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| 14:34.37 | oxek | grumbles about lack of electron packages in debian |
| 14:34.37 | Jenkler | do i relly need devscripts for checkbashism |
| 14:34.52 | Jenkler | Its a lot of packages |
| 14:34.55 | ychaouche | "ratrace there's effort to make the kenrel fully compileable by LLVM" I thought that has already been done |
| 14:35.10 | ratrace | it's an ongoing process |
| 14:35.25 | ratrace | it's not a switch someone would flip and everyone went home. |
| 14:35.45 | oxek | Jenkler: in debian, it's indeed in the devscripts package. You can use some other thing, like a plugin for vim instead. |
| 14:36.23 | ratrace | ychaouche: the package was dropped due to bug #917905 but it's back in bullseye |
| 14:36.24 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/917905 in xtables-addons-source (closed): «Fails to build for non-current kernel version»; severity: serious; opened: 2018-12-31; last modified: 2019-10-29. |
| 14:36.35 | Jenkler | ok |
| 14:36.51 | ratrace | oxek: was that a joke or are you actually welcoming electron apps? |
| 14:36.56 | oxek | Jenkler: or you can just get that from upstream on it's own |
| 14:37.19 | oxek | ratrace: not really welcoming it, just realizing that I need some of those apps and would make my life easier if they were packaged in debian |
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| 14:38.01 | ratrace | snap install them. that's waht you get with the electron mindset anyway |
| 14:38.07 | oxek | electron is an atrocity, but it's an atrocity that I've used to create a lot of stuff that saved me from homelessness/starvation/death |
| 14:38.41 | oxek | ratrace: yeah, but I prefer the debian way, with the debian "social contract" or whatever it's called |
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| 14:39.11 | oxek | I really can't (for now) get over the forced automatic updates in snap |
| 14:39.28 | ratrace | I fixed that just fine. |
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| 14:40.07 | oxek | well, you either pospone it for a max 60 (90?) days, after which it definitely updates, or you disable the service, at which point you can't do anything snap related |
| 14:40.14 | ratrace | apt purge snapd no moar snapd auto update problems :)) |
| 14:40.21 | oxek | yeah, or taht |
| 14:40.39 | ratrace | jokes aside, it _is_ terrible bu^W feature of it |
| 14:40.50 | ychaouche | ratrace, should I try and build it myself ? |
| 14:40.51 | ratrace | one the devs see nothing wrong about. explains everything. |
| 14:41.03 | ychaouche | ratrace, not the kernel of course |
| 14:41.42 | oxek | ratrace: that's the perfect description of it - it's not the fact that it behaves that way, it's the fact that the devs see nothing wrong with it. It really tells you something about the mindset of those devs, which makes you question whether you should be using anything from them. |
| 14:43.05 | ratrace | judd: check-backport xtables-addons-source |
| 14:43.07 | judd | Backporting package xtables-addons-source in sidâbuster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 13). |
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| 14:43.21 | oxek | they really should fix judd |
| 14:43.26 | ratrace | judd: check-backport xtables-addons-dkms |
| 14:43.27 | judd | Backporting package xtables-addons-dkms in sidâbuster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 13). |
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| 14:43.42 | oxek | debhelper-compat is indeed a satisfiable dependency |
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| 14:44.21 | ratrace | so it could be backported? |
| 14:44.24 | oxek | yes |
| 14:44.32 | ratrace | !ssb |
| 14:44.32 | dpkg | First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>. |
| 14:44.38 | ratrace | ychaouche: check that then ^^^ |
| 14:44.53 | ychaouche | reading |
| 14:45.02 | oxek | and install debhelper-compat from backports first |
| 14:45.32 | oxek | ehh, I mean debhelper |
| 14:45.36 | oxek | ,v debhelper |
| 14:45.37 | judd | Package: debhelper on amd64 -- jessie: 9.20150101+deb8u2; jessie-security: 9.20150101+deb8u2; stretch: 10.2.5; stretch-backports: 12.1.1~bpo9+1; buster: 12.1.1; buster-backports: 13.3.1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 13.3.3; sid: 13.3.3 |
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| 14:47.08 | ychaouche | used to configure make make install |
| 14:47.53 | node1 | Any application in Debian that will show on my desktop two time zone along with UTC timing? |
| 14:48.15 | ychaouche | <debian-backports> how do I ask the about this ? |
| 14:48.34 | ychaouche | !debian-backports |
| 14:48.34 | dpkg | backports.debian.org (formerly backports.org) is an official repository of <backports> for the current stable (see <buster backports>) and oldstable (<stretch backports>) distributions, prepared by Debian developers. Ask me about <backport caveat> and read http://backports.debian.org/Instructions/. See also <bdo kernel> <bdo mirrors> <bdo contents> <bdo list> <bdo bugs> <bdo xorg> <bdo NEW>. |
| 14:48.36 | ychaouche | oh |
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| 14:49.14 | oxek | ychaouche: you can also /msg judd directly |
| 14:49.23 | oxek | I mean dpkg |
| 14:49.25 | oxek | well, both |
| 14:49.33 | ychaouche | ah, good |
| 14:50.01 | oxek | dpkg is a bit annoying sometimes, for example it will reply to this message |
| 14:50.01 | dpkg | oxek: You are person #1 to send an unparseable request |
| 14:50.21 | oxek | dpkg: leave me alone! such a stalker |
| 14:50.21 | dpkg | oxek: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox? |
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| 14:52.27 | ratrace | it's a annoying when you mention it first, in a support scenario |
| 14:52.38 | ratrace | dpkg -l | grep my-furry-collection |
| 14:52.38 | dpkg | ii | grep my-furry-collection 1.3-2.1 ultra s3kr1t #debian package |
| 14:53.03 | GenTooMan | greets slightly strange error / problem I am using https://paste.debian.net/1187665/ and the accompanying error is confusing as it's a 32bit application (and YES I have support ARCH i386 libraries installed). |
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| 14:53.28 | ychaouche | and what's judd's job ? |
| 14:53.58 | oxek | ratrace: yeah, that case is bad too |
| 14:54.18 | oxek | ,what's your job? |
| 14:54.23 | oxek | hmm |
| 14:54.39 | ychaouche | reading https://ircbots.debian.net/judd/ |
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| 14:57.27 | f476_ | .2 |
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| 15:08.42 | jhutchins | oxek: Judd is our access to the Universal Debian Database. It has indicies of current program versions and some hardware information, other basic things. |
| 15:10.00 | EdePopede | there's also dpkg, but i think i've spotted a 3rd one recently? |
| 15:11.36 | oxek | we need to find the bots in here and watch them closely, perhaps we'll at least see the uprising coming which might give us a fighting chance |
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| 15:19.44 | GenTooMan | the bots I am least worried about it's the people swing the morning stars with the insane grin on their face and T-shirts that say "Club YOU today!" |
| 15:20.15 | GenTooMan | swing==swinging |
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| 15:20.57 | jhutchins | %ping |
| 15:20.57 | dselect | Yes, jhutchins you are either online or you are not... http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20000326 |
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| 15:25.36 | EdePopede | this! |
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| 15:28.56 | tcurdt | dns resolving question: when I have inside resolve.conf a domain and search set, when I do a "dig foo" should it try and resolve "dig foo.domain" first? |
| 15:31.04 | tcurdt | ah ... ok ... it seems to work when I >don't< use dig |
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| 15:36.58 | imMute | tcurdt: no, it tries just "foo" first, then if that gets back NXDOMAIN (or times out), then it tries the search postfixes |
| 15:37.14 | ratrace | tcurdt: yeah dig's a specialist tool, doesn't do the regular glibc gethostbyname or whatwasit api |
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| 15:40.40 | oxek | the multitide of doing dns on linux strikes again |
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| 15:52.23 | TheSilentLink | will debian update the backports kernel to 5.10? |
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| 15:57.45 | imMute | TheSilentLink: it's already 5.10 |
| 15:57.54 | imMute | for buster anyway. |
| 15:58.01 | TheSilentLink | imMute: do I need to manually switch to it? |
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| 15:58.28 | imMute | I think all you need to do is have the backports repo enabled and apt will pick it up (as it's a higher version number than the non-backports version) |
| 16:00.09 | TheSilentLink | It looks like it's missing an arm64 build for 5.10 |
| 16:00.40 | TheSilentLink | anyone know why? |
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| 16:08.35 | imMute | looks like it's building right now: https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=linux-signed-arm64 |
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| 16:09.36 | TheSilentLink | oh! but that's for sid |
| 16:09.57 | imMute | oh good catch. https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=linux-signed-arm64&suite=buster-backports backports looks like it's just sitting there |
| 16:10.13 | TheSilentLink | https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/linux-signed-arm64 it also looks like it's in testing but not yet in backports for some reason |
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| 16:12.35 | imMute | maybe the packaging team just hasn't gotten around to it. you could try emailing their mailing list |
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| 16:13.42 | TheSilentLink | imMute: looks like someone already did that https://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2021/02/msg00271.html but that was a month ago |
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| 16:37.43 | zerocool | anyone know if a bind9 "rndc freeze" would prevent the server from querying a forwarder? |
| 16:39.29 | ratrace | zerocool: there's #bind here on freenode if noone knows here |
| 16:40.31 | zerocool | was about to check there next although wasn't sure if #bind9, etc so tyty. |
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| 17:09.36 | neilthereildeil | hey guys |
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| 17:10.07 | neilthereildeil | im trying to copy my root file system. what does this command do? tar -cvpf - --one-file-system --acls --xattrs --selinux / |
| 17:10.50 | milkt | explained well in tar manual i guess |
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| 17:10.59 | neilthereildeil | not really |
| 17:11.08 | neilthereildeil | im looking for '-' |
| 17:11.16 | neilthereildeil | its -cvpf '-' |
| 17:11.21 | neilthereildeil | what does that trailing dash do? |
| 17:11.41 | milkt | output to stdout rather than file |
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| 17:11.43 | imMute | it's the filename, and a dash typically means "write to stdout" |
| 17:12.28 | ratrace | neilthereildeil: so maybe instead of copypasting something you saw somewhere in different context, ask what you want to achieve instead |
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| 17:12.50 | ratrace | rsync -vaAXx source/ dest/ with that -v being optional, is probably all you need |
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| 17:13.33 | neilthereildeil | i need to copy my / filesystem to another partition, overwrite my / partition with an LVM volume, and then copy my / FS back from the other partition |
| 17:13.40 | neilthereildeil | im following https://www.thegeekdiary.com/centos-rhel-converting-an-existing-root-filesystem-to-lvm-partition/ |
| 17:13.48 | neilthereildeil | step 4 |
| 17:14.20 | ratrace | neilthereildeil: -aAXx suffices then, -v to watch the files fly across the screen |
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| 17:15.21 | neilthereildeil | im booted off the debian ISO. no rsync there... |
| 17:15.54 | ratrace | neilthereildeil: you'll have to boot off of something that has rsync or can install it. |
| 17:16.23 | neilthereildeil | could you please help me do this with the utilities on the debian boot ISO? |
| 17:16.36 | neilthereildeil | i have tar and cp |
| 17:16.40 | imMute | neilthereildeil: IIRC, the rescue images have apt, so you should be able to install rsync |
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| 17:18.21 | ratrace | oh you mentioned tar in your orig question .... for some reason I read that as rsync |
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| 17:19.06 | neilthereildeil | also, why does step 4 of that link have a cp command also? |
| 17:19.17 | ratrace | then that - is argument to -f, meanign it outputs the tar stream to stdout. that would require you to pipe it into another tar and into a file, so why not use a proper file/path then |
| 17:19.19 | neilthereildeil | why do i need the cp if i am already tar-ing everything up? |
| 17:19.41 | neilthereildeil | this is what im going to do: tar -cvpf - --one-file-system --acls --xattrs --selinux / | tar -C /mnt/NEW_ROOT_PARTITION -xf |
| 17:19.47 | neilthereildeil | but why do i need to cp after? |
| 17:19.52 | ratrace | neilthereildeil: don't do that |
| 17:20.14 | ratrace | for your purpose, it suffices to tar everything up, then untar back to new rootfs |
| 17:20.26 | neilthereildeil | ok so just this line: tar -cvpf - --one-file-system --acls --xattrs --selinux / | tar -C /mnt/NEW_ROOT_PARTITION -xf |
| 17:20.34 | ratrace | there's no reason to tar to stdout, then pipe to another tar and untar into another fs, only to have that reverse later |
| 17:20.37 | neilthereildeil | skip this line: cp -aux /dev /mnt/NEW_ROOT_PARTITION |
| 17:20.52 | ratrace | skip the -f- and | |
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| 17:21.15 | neilthereildeil | why is there a cp command ALSO? |
| 17:21.50 | ratrace | because the author of that article has no idea what they're doing |
| 17:22.02 | neilthereildeil | lol uhoh |
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| 17:22.15 | neilthereildeil | so then can i achieve this whole thing with just the cp ommand? |
| 17:22.17 | neilthereildeil | command* |
| 17:22.29 | ratrace | seems like their line of thinking is that since you tarred up with --one-file-system, you should "copy" /dev which is a pseudofilesystem, but that's stupid, as /dev is automatically populated on boot |
| 17:22.30 | neilthereildeil | it seems my tar is old and doesnt have support for some of these options |
| 17:22.42 | ratrace | I don't know if cp also copies xattrs |
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| 17:23.12 | ratrace | and with cp you shouldn't copy /dev, /proc or /sys, they're automatic filesystems generated on boot |
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| 17:23.47 | ratrace | so if you want to use tar, create a tarball somewhere as a single file, give that path as argument to -f |
| 17:23.50 | neilthereildeil | wtf cp doesnt have half the options either.... |
| 17:24.10 | ratrace | then after you recombine your future root partition off of a LV, you untar that file back to new rootfs mountpoint |
| 17:24.26 | neilthereildeil | i dont wanna use tar. i just wanna copy the files with all the attributes |
| 17:25.37 | ratrace | cp -a --preserve-all / /path/to/temporary/rootfs/mountpoint/ I suppose |
| 17:26.03 | ratrace | bah, -a already does --preserve-all ...... cp -a / /path/to/... I guess then |
| 17:26.37 | neilthereildeil | do i need -x? my cp doesnt support that option but google says i need it |
| 17:26.49 | ratrace | or since you're doing that offline, your src is not / but current rootfs mountpoint wherever you've put it |
| 17:27.12 | neilthereildeil | ohh true, so i dont need to worry about -x, correct? since im not chrooted? |
| 17:27.15 | ratrace | neilthereildeil: you don't need -x if there are no other filesystems mounted into the tree of your source path |
| 17:27.19 | neilthereildeil | ok |
| 17:27.25 | ratrace | -x has nothing to do with chroot |
| 17:27.33 | milkt | trust manual not google |
| 17:27.36 | ratrace | -x would be important if you did this on a live system with mountpoints like /dev, /proc and /sys |
| 17:27.36 | neilthereildeil | ok, so ill do cp -a /mnt/src /mnt/dst |
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| 17:28.29 | neilthereildeil | how sould i be dealing with symlinks? |
| 17:28.51 | ratrace | that should work according to the manpage, though I can't vouch from experience if there's some unobvious gotcha. I've been using rsync like forever for entire filesystem transfers |
| 17:29.16 | ratrace | neilthereildeil: symlinks are preserved according to the manpage, in -a |
| 17:30.27 | neilthereildeil | ok, so once i copy everything, ill try to boot off the cp dst to make sure before i delete src |
| 17:30.45 | ratrace | neilthereildeil: mind the fstab and uuids |
| 17:30.59 | neilthereildeil | ohh good point |
| 17:31.11 | neilthereildeil | btw this is a GPT src disk |
| 17:32.51 | jelly | cp -a does not do sparse files, I'm not sure about hardlinks either |
| 17:33.10 | milkt | cp -a do not preserve hardlink as i know |
| 17:33.24 | neilthereildeil | jelly: is that going to be a problem if im copying /? |
| 17:33.24 | jelly | rsync -aHsSxXl --numeric-ids ;-) |
| 17:33.59 | jelly | neilthereildeil, I don't know what you keep on / |
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| 17:35.03 | neilthereildeil | are there any well known sparse files i should be aware of under /? |
| 17:35.14 | jelly | there usually are some hardlinks. Sparse files are not likely |
| 17:35.40 | jelly | but why even take a chance |
| 17:35.50 | neilthereildeil | so cp -a will not work if i have hardlinks? |
| 17:36.08 | jelly | it will make multiple separate files out of one file with two links. |
| 17:36.25 | neilthereildeil | i dont see any moention of copy hardlinks in the cp man page |
| 17:38.03 | neilthereildeil | cp -a is --preserve=all, and that includes links and xattr |
| 17:38.05 | ratrace | doesn't "links" include both sym and hard? shoudln't the manpage then explicitly say "symlinks" if hard aren't included? |
| 17:38.52 | milkt | seem cp -a do preserve hardlink as well, but not sure |
| 17:39.07 | jelly | two things: 1) the _actual_ official manual is in "info coreutils cp" not "man cp" 2) no idea |
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| 17:39.23 | ratrace | bwahahaha.... effin RMS and that info damnation |
| 17:40.42 | jelly | neilthereildeil, that's nice, I'm pretty sure it did not used to mean all that |
| 17:40.57 | jelly | s/used/use/ |
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| 17:41.30 | jelly | and I'm not going to verify it really does, either |
| 17:42.06 | jelly | copying contents with rsync is easier |
| 17:42.09 | neilthereildeil | the debian iso doesnt have top installed |
| 17:42.13 | ratrace | frankly, I'd go the extra mile and get rsync. "nobody ever got fired for using rsync" :) |
| 17:42.15 | neilthereildeil | how else can i monitor CPU usage? |
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| 17:42.26 | jelly | neilthereildeil, install it |
| 17:42.34 | neilthereildeil | i cant |
| 17:42.48 | jelly | procps package |
| 17:42.56 | ratrace | neilthereildeil: you should really get a _proper_ rescue environment. ubuntu live ISO is a good one, and can apt install stuff, has zfs, and a full blown desktop to enjoy por^W youtube while it copies |
| 17:43.19 | neilthereildeil | i mean..i booted to debian "RESCUE" mode |
| 17:43.24 | ratrace | not just for this. it's wise to have one handy in case you need to rescue stuff..... it also sounds like you don't have backups at all, so consider implementing a backup solution asap. |
| 17:43.35 | jelly | I can recommend grml.org as a rescue live image |
| 17:43.50 | ratrace | debian "rescue" mode is not really a proper rescue environment and thenaming is unfortunate |
| 17:43.51 | jelly | it's debian based, has zsh, has screen |
| 17:44.00 | ratrace | is ukranian |
| 17:44.17 | jelly | not Austrian or German? |
| 17:44.21 | ratrace | I don't trust ukranian :) call me raciss. |
| 17:44.32 | jelly | thas raciss. |
| 17:45.29 | ratrace | eventually the best rescue env is if you build your own. I have a full blown debian installation with all the tools I might need (and others are apt install away), wifi configs included for my portrable wifi stick, firmware, drivers installed, etc.... before that, I used ubuntu live ISO. |
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| 17:45.58 | ratrace | having your own, you preconfigure it for your hardware, especially when it comes to out of tree drivers or firmware needed, and configs for network and wifi. |
| 17:46.02 | jelly | I have grml.org, comes with all the firmware every server I ever used needs |
| 17:46.31 | milkt | cp -a hardlink: https://termbin.com/1oul |
| 17:46.52 | jelly | yay! |
| 17:46.57 | jelly | and sparse files? |
| 17:47.16 | ratrace | am I reading that correct? different inodes? |
| 17:47.25 | jelly | selinux / other xattrs? It probably does posix acls. |
| 17:47.39 | jelly | same inodes. |
| 17:48.19 | jelly | of course copies will probably have different inum from originals, unless you're accidentally lucky |
| 17:48.32 | ratrace | ahhh right, x and y are hardlinked.... I was looking between a and b |
| 17:49.24 | ratrace | wellthen! aside from sparse files, cp -a should do the trick |
| 17:50.12 | ratrace | speaking of, they say next coreutils' cp will default to auto reflinks, so cp on btrfs should reflink instead of copy. |
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| 17:51.12 | jelly | it does not do that already? |
| 17:51.25 | ratrace | not in buster |
| 17:51.32 | ratrace | ,v coreutils |
| 17:51.33 | judd | Package: coreutils on amd64 -- jessie: 8.23-4; stretch: 8.26-3; buster: 8.30-3; bullseye: 8.32-4+b1; sid: 8.32-4+b1 |
| 17:51.56 | neilthereildeil | hmm seems 161GB data on the src root partition occupied a 273GB FS dst partition |
| 17:52.08 | jelly | !pal neilthereildeil |
| 17:52.08 | dpkg | points at neilthereildeil and laughs |
| 17:52.15 | neilthereildeil | and only /src is copied |
| 17:52.23 | neilthereildeil | could it be infinitely following links? |
| 17:52.26 | neilthereildeil | i used cp -a |
| 17:52.44 | jelly | did you forget -x |
| 17:53.16 | jelly | is some other mountpoint monted below src |
| 17:53.20 | ratrace | it's supposedly offline with no mountpoints in the src path |
| 17:53.20 | neilthereildeil | its not my / FS. its mounted from the hdd |
| 17:53.29 | neilthereildeil | its mounted as /mnt/src, but its not live |
| 17:53.39 | neilthereildeil | cd |
| 17:54.04 | ratrace | same filesystems? |
| 17:54.10 | neilthereildeil | yes both ext4 |
| 17:54.20 | jelly | have fun figuring out whether it's sparse files, hardlinks, or whatever |
| 17:54.31 | jelly | crossing to different filesystem |
| 17:54.32 | neilthereildeil | there is a sparse file that i am copying |
| 17:54.40 | neilthereildeil | but its not under /src |
| 17:54.51 | neilthereildeil | i wonder why /src is the only dir that appreared in the dst |
| 17:54.51 | ratrace | jelly: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/glib/-/issues/2151 |
| 17:55.08 | ratrace | ooh, wait, that's glib link... |
| 17:55.22 | jelly | It's gnome. I'm not even going to read the bug :-) |
| 17:55.41 | ratrace | https://github.com/coreutils/coreutils/commit/25725f9d41735d176d73a757430739fb71c7d043#diff-e9aaf9e2113096cc1969eac9e8854e753da24881c9fd2b7b152d948cdad67625 |
| 17:55.56 | EdePopede | "It's gnome." - isn't this already a bug? ;) |
| 17:56.16 | Druid | please dont hate short people |
| 17:56.24 | jelly | "default to COW" |
| 17:56.27 | jelly | !moo |
| 17:56.27 | dpkg | mooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I'm a cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass. I'm a cow, you could be too; join us all! type apt-get moo; aplay /usr/lib/libreoffice/share/gallery/sounds/cow.wav |
| 17:56.42 | neilthereildeil | dude this debian resuce environment sucks |
| 17:56.48 | ratrace | YouDontSay(tm) |
| 17:56.52 | jelly | yeah, we agree |
| 17:56.56 | neilthereildeil | theres no tools there and its all old versions of binaries in a busybox binary |
| 17:57.02 | Druid | oh the gnome project |
| 17:57.09 | jelly | it's a tiny initrd. |
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| 17:57.32 | jelly | you use that only if you don't have any other option |
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| 17:58.13 | neilthereildeil | would knoppix work? |
| 17:58.30 | jelly | knoppix sounds "10 years old" |
| 17:58.54 | jelly | probably still better than rescue option in grub |
| 17:59.58 | ratrace | bah, the next coreutils that'll contain the COW ain't even released yet.... so no Bullseye..... BOO. |
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| 18:00.07 | ratrace | BOOlseye. |
| 18:00.24 | jelly | ratrace, at least we'll have birth time in stat(1) I think?! |
| 18:00.40 | ratrace | I'm clapping unenthusiasticly. |
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| 18:00.54 | jelly | only like 15 years since ext4 started keeping track of file creation |
| 18:01.20 | jelly | no more crazy stuff like |
| 18:01.23 | jelly | !crtime |
| 18:01.23 | dpkg | Some filesystems may store creation time after all, even if POSIX APIs don't expose it. Ext4 does. E.g., to check how long ago your root filesystem root directory was created: f="/"; dev=`df -P "$f"|tail -n1|awk '{print $1}'`; i=`stat -c%i "$f"`; sudo debugfs -R"stat <$i>" "$dev" 2>&1|grep ^crtime |
| 18:01.34 | dob1 | ps aux is cutting the user, what can I do ? |
| 18:01.35 | ratrace | but that's okay. took 21+ years for debian to unconfuse itself and rename <release>/updates into <release>-security finally, properly. |
| 18:01.40 | dob1 | cutting the output |
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| 18:02.10 | jelly | dob1, ps will always truncate usernames longer than 8 characters, I think you can ask it to show numeric uids |
| 18:02.52 | jelly | dob1, is "ps -fe" nicer output? |
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| 18:03.02 | oxek | ratrace: what do you mean? Afaik it's still messy, debian-security buster/updates |
| 18:03.14 | oxek | vs debian buster-updates |
| 18:03.41 | ratrace | oxek: it comes with bullseye. bullseye-security instead of bullseye/updates |
| 18:03.43 | dob1 | jelly, no... but really? it's still calculating 80 col in 2021? |
| 18:04.01 | jelly | we have like 4 meanings for "updates, more if combined with prefixes |
| 18:04.29 | EdePopede | dob1: that's still the default width of an xterm |
| 18:04.51 | dob1 | EdePopede, how many ppl use xterm? |
| 18:05.09 | ratrace | I used to cry about 80 cols being super ancient in 21st century..... until I started using tileable WMs and now I'm loving 80 col defaults in tools and things :) |
| 18:05.22 | EdePopede | dob1: i know at least one |
| 18:05.24 | oxek | ratrace: that sounds nice, one less dir indirection |
| 18:05.38 | oxek | looking forward to bullseye for one more reason |
| 18:05.44 | ratrace | heh |
| 18:06.31 | EdePopede | last one i played with was Guake but i had some issues with it, can't remember what. |
| 18:07.24 | dob1 | ok but why but why they don't put an option to indicate col width for output? |
| 18:07.43 | dob1 | so xterm guys are happy, I am happy :) |
| 18:08.05 | EdePopede | !ls |
| 18:08.05 | dpkg | CONFIG.SYS AUTOEXEC.BAT TEMP WINDOWS My Documents PROGRA~1 |
| 18:08.08 | EdePopede | oops |
| 18:08.27 | EdePopede | maybe for the same reason ls output isn't trustworthy |
| 18:08.32 | EdePopede | noone cares? |
| 18:09.12 | dob1 | why you say it's not trustworthy ? |
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| 18:09.55 | EdePopede | just wait until greycat is around ;) |
| 18:10.02 | EdePopede | !parse ls |
| 18:10.09 | EdePopede | nah, can't remember it |
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| 18:10.48 | oxek | what? Why does dpkg list the contents of a windows dir? |
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| 18:10.56 | RoyK | EdePopede: ls output not trustworthy? |
| 18:11.02 | RoyK | oxek: it's a joke |
| 18:11.05 | dob1 | oxek, I think it runs on windows :) |
| 18:11.11 | EdePopede | because unlike Data it has a working emotion module ;) |
| 18:11.29 | oxek | my emotion module has been malfunctioning for a while |
| 18:11.44 | RoyK | oxek: and that output looks like windows 95 or something ;) |
| 18:12.12 | RoyK | or win98 or winme |
| 18:12.16 | oxek | dpkg is running from some win95 computer in someone's basement |
| 18:12.16 | dpkg | oxek: no idea |
| 18:12.16 | RoyK | nothing later |
| 18:12.21 | EdePopede | !parsing ls |
| 18:12.21 | dpkg | Trying to manipulate the output of "ls" isn't a very good idea at all: the output varies when you change locales or even between different versions of coreutils (let alone between linux and other unices). The output of ls was never designed to be fed into other programs and if you have odd characters like spaces or newlines in your filenames then you will strike trouble. See http://mywiki.wooledge.org/ParsingLs |
| 18:12.24 | EdePopede | this! |
| 18:12.52 | EdePopede | though the only place where i've seen such filenames was on freenode :) |
| 18:13.30 | oxek | RoyK: yeah, don't parse ls, I've learned not to do it recently because it spectacularly failed for me |
| 18:13.45 | EdePopede | avoiding control characters kept me away from related troubles for more than 2 decades now |
| 18:13.46 | oxek | now I do either shell globs or properly pipe find output into stuff |
| 18:14.12 | RoyK | oxek: script it with python or perl or even a "find" command - should work |
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| 18:15.11 | EdePopede | what i'm missing for find and other alternatives is sorting. sometimes i just have to do it chronologically and that's a pita w/o ls |
| 18:15.14 | dob1 | EdePopede, it's not the same, if you have users with common name on ps output you can't distingush them if their login is > 8 chars... you can use id ok but it's not so nice |
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| 18:15.29 | dob1 | and error prone |
| 18:15.31 | EdePopede | yepp |
| 18:16.49 | EdePopede | that's what i get on htop: systemd-t |
| 18:17.00 | EdePopede | one more at least, things evolving |
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| 18:29.28 | wr | 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: NVIDIA Corporation G73M [GeForce Go 7600] [10de:0398] (rev a1), what would be the correct graphics driver to install on debian 10? |
| 18:30.16 | ratrace | wr: you can use nvidia.com driver search to see which version supports teh card, then compare against versions available in debian |
| 18:30.50 | ratrace | https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/nvidia-graphics-drivers |
| 18:31.01 | sney | for something that old, nouveau + firmware will probably give you the same performance as any of the proprietary blobs |
| 18:31.37 | sney | !nouveau firmware |
| 18:31.37 | dpkg | Binary-only firmware for the nouveau <DRM> driver is packaged for Debian as firmware-misc-nonfree. Without this package installed, poor 2D/3D performance and/or missing video features in the <nouveau> xorg driver is commonly experienced. To install, ask me about <non-free sources>. |
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| 18:34.04 | oxek | anyone know if nvidia is going to be friendlier to linux? They must be getting loads of money from crypto miners and CUDA, all of which runs on linux afaik |
| 18:35.05 | sney | you'd have to ask them, but I personally suspect they will not change anything |
| 18:35.17 | ratrace | they did start to opensource parts |
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| 18:40.25 | wr | ratrace, on the nvidia site i have 304.137 version on a run file should i go with it or follow https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers#Version_340.108_.28legacy_GPUs.29 |
| 18:42.20 | ratrace | wr: I'd go with sney's recommendation if 304 is the last supported version. don't download and run the.... .run file. |
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| 18:44.01 | ratrace | otherwise there's the nvidia-legacy-304xx-kernel-dkms |
| 18:44.44 | ratrace | oh wait, not in buster.... that's stretch |
| 18:45.03 | wr | ratrace, yes |
| 18:45.04 | ratrace | just use the open source nouveau. not like you're gonna game on that or something |
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| 18:48.04 | wr | sney, ratrace so i would only install firmware-misc-nonfree package only? |
| 18:48.20 | sney | correct, and then reboot to make sure the driver loaded the firmware |
| 18:48.26 | wr | ratrace, the nvidia-legacy-304xx-kernel-dkms i don't see it on buster |
| 18:48.51 | ratrace | which is what I said |
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| 19:08.18 | urk | ndorf> Is there a way to make the panel permanently resident when launching Debian? I have to redoe the steps you suggested every time I bootup: right click the desktop, select applications, select settings, and select panel. |
| 19:08.45 | greycat | you're describing stuff that you want to happen when you start your X or Wayland session, not when you boot |
| 19:09.29 | milkt | urk: which DE or WM are you using? |
| 19:10.04 | urk | milkt> stable |
| 19:10.20 | milkt | urk: which "desktop environment" or "window manager" are you using? |
| 19:10.30 | urk | xfce |
| 19:10.59 | urk | dpkg -i firmware-names was added for two packages yesterday which may have caused Debbie to have indigestion. |
| 19:10.59 | dpkg | installs firmware-names was added for two packages yesterday which may have caused Debbie to have indigestion. into urk's head with a bone saw and a few screws |
| 19:12.00 | wr | sney, ratrace i had it working before, thing is with just firmware-misc-nonfree i am at 640resol |
| 19:12.21 | urk | I still don't have internet even though the firmware for the Intel Linux driver was added. My initial thoughts are that the driver now needs to be revisited. |
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| 19:14.22 | jmcnaught | urk: did you boot with the newer backports kernel? What does "uname -r" say? |
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| 19:18.13 | ndorf | urk: sorry, i don't know for sure -- i would expect those changes to be saved automatically. hopefully someone more familiar with xfce can help you more |
| 19:18.25 | urk | jmcnaught> I have not added backports to the /etc/apt/sources.list |
| 19:19.01 | urk | jmcnaught> Since I don't have internet I would assume there is no way to access backports at this point. |
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| 19:19.32 | jmcnaught | urk: maybe I'm wrong but last night I thought that you used "dpkg -i â¦" to install a manually downloaded linux kernel package that was from backports. |
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| 19:21.01 | jmcnaught | urk: you need more than just firmware for your wifi to work, you need a newer kernel too. Specifically this one: http://http.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/l/linux-signed-amd64/linux-image-amd64_5.10.13-1~bpo10+1_amd64.deb |
| 19:22.10 | miguel_clean | I just read that "Currently the Debian armhf port requires at least an Armv7 CPU with Thumb-2 and VFP3D16." Does this match this Features : swp half thumb fastmult vfp edsp neon vfpv3 tls ? of my ARMv7 Processor rev 1 (v7l) ? |
| 19:22.48 | urk | These are the two files that were installed with "dpkg -i": linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.3-amd64_5.10.13-1~bpo10+1_amd64, and firmware-iwlwifi_20200918-1~bpo10+1_all |
| 19:23.17 | jmcnaught | urk: so what does "uname -r" say please? |
| 19:24.37 | urk | jmcnaught> 4.19.0-14-amd64 |
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| 19:25.32 | jmcnaught | urk: either you did not properly install the linux-image-5.10...amd64.deb package, or you went out of your way during the GRUB boot menu to use the older kernel. |
| 19:25.47 | sney | or didn't reboot |
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| 19:26.12 | urk | jmcnaught> I definitely didn't go out of my way to use the older kernel. What do you recommend? |
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| 19:27.35 | urk | Should I try reinstalling: linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.3-amd64_5.10.13-1~bpo10+1_amd64 with dpkg -i ??? |
| 19:27.46 | jmcnaught | urk: try to install those packages again with "dpkg -i packagefilename.deb" make sure when you become root you use "su -l" and pay close attend to the output watching for errors. |
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| 19:28.02 | urk | ok |
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| 19:38.04 | urk | jmcnaught> Are these installed at root@localhost:~# ??? |
| 19:39.24 | jmcnaught | urk: I do not understand your question, but it does not matter what directory you are in when you install the packages if you specify the full absolute path to the files. |
| 19:39.51 | jmcnaught | urk: last night you did "mount /dev/sda1 /mnt" followed by "cd /mnt" |
| 19:42.47 | urk | Just received an error that volume was not unmounted cleanly, mountpoint is not empty. This error occurred after entering "mount" /dev/sda1 /mnt |
| 19:44.10 | jmcnaught | urk: what does "ls /mnt" say? Usually that directory is empty. |
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| 19:45.48 | urk | jmcnaught> It shows the names of the two linux firmware packages I was installing, and then it shows the rest of the contents of the usb drive, but with a dark green background behind them. |
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| 19:48.27 | jmcnaught | urk: "cd" will get you out of that directory back to root's home. "umount /mnt" will unmount the drive (only one 'n' in umount command). Then "ls -lh /mnt" |
| 19:49.03 | greycat | also "df /mnt" will show what file system it's part of at the moment |
| 19:49.18 | greycat | when it's unmounted it should appear as part of the / file system |
| 19:49.24 | H-var | hello, I'm getting really choppy performance when watching videos on youtube in 4k. It doesn't happen on windows. |
| 19:49.52 | greycat | Firmware, drivers, etc. |
| 19:50.49 | H-var | is it because graphics card companies do not open the source code for their drivers? |
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| 19:51.13 | greycat | !firmware |
| 19:51.13 | dpkg | Firmware is software to operate electronic devices, usually contained in EPROM or flash memory. Some Linux kernel drivers require firmware to be provided from userspace, notably for <WiFi> devices. Most firmware files are not part of a Debian release as they do not conform to the <DFSG>; some are available via <contrib> and <non-free> packages, ask me about <search>. See also <installer firmware>. http://wiki.debian.org/Firmware |
| 19:51.17 | H-var | so it is hard for linux enthusiasts to make things work on linux? |
| 19:51.34 | milkt | H-var: which hardware are you using? |
| 19:51.37 | greycat | many graphics chipsets require some nonfree firmware to operate optimally |
| 19:51.46 | H-var | nvidia 1080 |
| 19:52.00 | greycat | nvidia also often wants a nonfree *driver* |
| 19:52.02 | urk | ls -lhs /mnt returs a total: 0 |
| 19:52.29 | H-var | I tried installing non-free drivers from nvidia but the performance was literally the same lol greycat |
| 19:52.44 | H-var | so I reverted to the open-source drivers provided by debian |
| 19:52.59 | urk | jmcnaught> Should I go ahead and try dpkg again after remounting /mnt? |
| 19:53.00 | sney | it could also be some browser drm shenanigans |
| 19:53.19 | H-var | i use firefox |
| 19:53.28 | jmcnaught | urk: unless the USB stick is automatically being mounted by your xfce GUI |
| 19:53.32 | H-var | is chrome better in that matter? |
| 19:54.00 | H-var | what browsers are you guys using for best performance on linux? |
| 19:54.04 | H-var | chromium? |
| 19:54.17 | milkt | curl |
| 19:54.43 | milkt | H-var: try playing same or other video with other video player maybe |
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| 19:55.07 | H-var | milkt I'm talking about youtube though |
| 19:55.17 | milkt | i do not know about youtube |
| 19:55.31 | urk | jmcnaught> I just ran lsblk and the USB stick is not being automatically remounted. |
| 19:56.24 | greycat | I see four instances of "1080" on the supported device list for the nvidia 460.39 driver. |
| 19:56.24 | sney | I use firefox for some things and chromium for other things. media performance might be marginally better in chromium. try stuff, see what your results are |
| 19:56.57 | greycat | I also see four 1080s on the 418.113 supported devices list. |
| 19:56.59 | milkt | i had to install nonfree firmware to get nvidia graphic card working with debian though |
| 19:57.21 | H-var | interesting |
| 19:57.35 | H-var | I guess the issues could be in the drivers |
| 19:57.45 | greycat | https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers#buster-418 |
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| 19:58.07 | H-var | even though linux drivers are provided by the nvidia corp, they might be inferior in quality compared to the ones written for windows |
| 19:58.11 | greycat | assuming of course that your "nvidia 1080" is one of those 4 devices from the list |
| 19:58.17 | H-var | since less funds were spent on them |
| 19:58.47 | jmcnaught | urk: okay then you should be able to mount it to /mnt if it is empty. |
| 19:59.00 | milkt | H-var: try nonfree driver in debian unofficial repository |
| 19:59.11 | greycat | I'd try what the wiki says, first. |
| 19:59.21 | H-var | okay, I will try that in combination with chromium |
| 19:59.51 | H-var | what about waterfox? |
| 20:00.04 | sney | !tias |
| 20:00.04 | dpkg | TIAS is "Try It And See". |
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| 20:00.15 | H-var | you're right |
| 20:00.40 | H-var | I'll try waterfox and slimjet |
| 20:01.11 | jmcnaught | Browsers done by even smaller teams than Mozilla's⦠|
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| 20:01.21 | H-var | hh |
| 20:01.43 | H-var | yeah, I'll just install chromium then |
| 20:01.53 | H-var | and proprietary drivers |
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| 20:05.13 | urk | I ran dpkg - firmware-name, and the following errors were displayed: deconfiguration is not permitted (--auto-deconfigure might help). And then the next line said errors were encountered while processing. |
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| 20:05.51 | greycat | "dpkg -i firmware-name" is not a real command |
| 20:05.55 | greycat | "dpkg - firmware-name" is not a real command |
| 20:06.09 | greycat | see, my fingers CAN'T EVEN TYPE THE WRONG THING |
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| 20:07.08 | greycat | "dpkg -i" expects a filename, not a package name, so you would give it the pathname to the .deb file that you downloaded or sneakernetted |
| 20:07.24 | greycat | "firmware-name" is not a sane filename for a debian pacakge |
| 20:07.30 | urk | greycat> You talking to me? |
| 20:07.39 | greycat | Not any more. *plonk* |
| 20:08.13 | urk | greycat> I used the real file name, but didn't want to type it on here because it is so long. |
| 20:08.29 | jmcnaught | urk: the command should be more like "dpkg -i /mnt/linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.3-amd64_5.10.13-1~bpo10+1_amd64.deb" |
| 20:08.51 | ratrace | isn't the recommendation to use apt, even for local .deb files? |
| 20:09.22 | greycat | I'm so tired of trying to deduce the context that I'm simply *assuming* they are sneakernetting ethernet firmware. |
| 20:09.55 | urk | One other error message before the one on deconfiguration: installing linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.3-amd64 would break wireless-regdb, and then the deconfiguration message. |
| 20:10.06 | jmcnaught | I don't think it matters between apt and dpkg -i for loose files if there are no dependencies, and there would not be for this leaf package or the other firmware-iwlwifi either |
| 20:10.23 | ratrace | I see |
| 20:10.38 | urk | jmcnaught> I Cd to the mount directory before entering the dpkg command. |
| 20:11.15 | jmcnaught | urk: you became root with "su" or "su -l"? |
| 20:11.32 | urk | su -l |
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| 20:12.22 | milkt | urk: it is better to provide full command and full error message |
| 20:13.02 | urk | milkt> Ok, I will display what is on the screen at the command line in addition to the command. |
| 20:14.06 | greycat | when you're sneakernetting network drivers/firmware it's understandable that you can't paste from there to IRC, because airgap. but you should take extra care to get the command in the right *form*. |
| 20:14.22 | urk | milkt> root@localhost:/mnt# dpkg -i linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.3-amd64_5.10.13-1~bpo10+1_amd64.deb |
| 20:14.34 | greycat | rather than "dpkg - firmware-name", say "I ran dpkg -i /mnt/firmware-nonfree-*" or something. |
| 20:14.55 | urk | ok, and now for the full error message. |
| 20:15.10 | milkt | maybe you can also take photograph of screen and upload it somewhere |
| 20:15.28 | jmcnaught | or use the USB stick to copy a text file of the output to the IRC computer. |
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| 20:18.46 | urk | dpkg: error processing archive linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.3-amd64_5.10.13-1~bpo10+1_amd64.deb --install): installing linux-image-5.100-0.bpo.3-amd64 would break wireless-regdb, and deconfiguration is not permitted (--auto-deconfigure might help). Errors were encountered while processin: linu-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.3-amd64_5.10.13-1~bpo10+1_amd64.debxg |
| 20:18.46 | dpkg | urk: That isn't an error, post the whole output to a pastebin (/msg dpkg pastebin). |
| 20:19.16 | urk | I am going to take a picture of my screen and post it to imgur or something similar |
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| 20:28.45 | chocolate | can I setup django-oscar on debian buster? |
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| 20:30.15 | neilthereildeil | is it a good idea to create my swap device inside an LVM VG? |
| 20:30.29 | greycat | plenty of systems do that |
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| 20:31.23 | neilthereildeil | ok, i also created my / partition as a LV inside my new VG |
| 20:31.30 | neilthereildeil | i need to do a couple things now |
| 20:31.54 | neilthereildeil | i need to copy everything over, and then update grub/initrd to booth from the new LV |
| 20:32.23 | neilthereildeil | so im booted from this system |
| 20:32.34 | greycat | you're ... *migrating* an existing system from traditional partitions to LVM? that's uncommon. |
| 20:32.41 | neilthereildeil | yea |
| 20:32.55 | neilthereildeil | its less work than redeploying the whole server |
| 20:33.13 | neilthereildeil | much less |
| 20:33.33 | neilthereildeil | should i remount / ro and then copy everything using rsync? |
| 20:33.42 | neilthereildeil | the debian boot CD is useless |
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| 20:36.27 | ratrace | neilthereildeil: if you made that copy from before to a temporary location, you just reverse the direction to the new rootfs mount on the LV |
| 20:36.35 | ratrace | same thing just reverse direction |
| 20:37.02 | neilthereildeil | ratrace: that copy prolly had an infinite loop since in only crearted /src and use up all the space in the partition |
| 20:37.11 | neilthereildeil | what was that rsync command you guys recommended? |
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| 20:37.17 | neilthereildeil | i can do it now |
| 20:37.28 | greycat | if you're having trouble copying from /a to /b then I don't foresee this going well |
| 20:37.29 | ratrace | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:38.50 | ratrace | sorry, typo'd, just big -S that -s is something else |
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| 20:40.48 | neilthereildeil | FYI there is a very big sparse file in my FS also |
| 20:41.24 | neilthereildeil | also, this is a GPT disk, but i dont see the UUID for my new partition /dev/sda3 in /dev/disk/by-uuid. is that a problem? |
| 20:41.24 | ratrace | <PROTECTED> |
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| 20:42.07 | ratrace | by-uuid belong to filesystems, you don't have a filesystem on sda3, do you? you said LVM.... |
| 20:42.14 | neilthereildeil | ah ok |
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| 20:42.33 | ratrace | GPT partitions might have PARTUUID tho |
| 20:42.49 | neilthereildeil | ok i see it for the PARTITION now |
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| 20:45.45 | ratrace | hrm... that SHAXx reminds me.... I keep forgetting to bump openssh keys from rsa to EC |
| 20:46.17 | ratrace | rsa (sha1) is dun goof'd. kaputt. it's an ex parrot. |
| 20:46.26 | neilthereildeil | ratrace: should i remount / as ro? |
| 20:46.33 | neilthereildeil | how will open files in / he handled? |
| 20:46.36 | neilthereildeil | be* handled |
| 20:46.48 | greycat | you shouldn't be doing this on a "live" system |
| 20:47.10 | greycat | y'oughtta be in single user mode, kneeling in front of the monitor, like a real sysadmin does |
| 20:47.10 | ratrace | indeed. are you booted into the copy of your former root? you said you'd boot to test |
| 20:47.22 | neilthereildeil | no, that copy with cp didnt work |
| 20:47.30 | neilthereildeil | im booted to the / partition now |
| 20:47.32 | ratrace | then how did you make a copy of your former rootfs? |
| 20:47.37 | neilthereildeil | it failed |
| 20:47.41 | neilthereildeil | i dont have a copy |
| 20:47.51 | ratrace | so...... wait, what are you doing now then? |
| 20:47.51 | neilthereildeil | so i wanna try making a copy again with rsync |
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| 20:48.26 | neilthereildeil | maybe i could execute rsync from the debian boot environment from the src partition? |
| 20:48.40 | neilthereildeil | i have to mount the root parittion anyway as the src of the copy? |
| 20:48.56 | ratrace | why don't you install a proper live env onto an USB stick? |
| 20:49.04 | neilthereildeil | i dont have physical access |
| 20:49.13 | ratrace | you... you're doing this remotely over ssh? |
| 20:49.18 | neilthereildeil | and iDRAC |
| 20:49.24 | ratrace | oof |
| 20:49.24 | neilthereildeil | to the servers screen |
| 20:49.27 | ratrace | you DO have backups? |
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| 20:49.30 | neilthereildeil | its a pandemic haha |
| 20:49.39 | greycat | Why are you even *attempting* this? |
| 20:49.47 | neilthereildeil | yea this IS the backup[ |
| 20:49.48 | greycat | Bored? |
| 20:49.56 | neilthereildeil | no, i dont wanna spend 2 weeks deplloying again |
| 20:50.25 | ratrace | I did that a few times, migrated actual live, in production server, btween zfs and btrfs using degraded mirrors and alotta prayer to Great Old Ones |
| 20:50.39 | neilthereildeil | this is not in prod right now |
| 20:50.41 | ratrace | so it's doable.... but.... I had backups.... |
| 20:50.42 | neilthereildeil | i scheduled downtime |
| 20:50.47 | neilthereildeil | this IS the backup |
| 20:50.50 | neilthereildeil | worst case ill rebuild it |
| 20:50.59 | neilthereildeil | and spend 2 weeks |
| 20:51.09 | neilthereildeil | but ideally i can do it this way and not spend 2 weeks |
| 20:51.12 | ratrace | well then... you can rsync a live system. that -x will help you don't descend into dev,sys,proc |
| 20:51.43 | neilthereildeil | why isnt it better to boot off the debian ISO and mount the src FS and run rsync from there? |
| 20:51.52 | neilthereildeil | rather than doing this on a booted system |
| 20:51.54 | ratrace | turn off all the services that aren't essential. sync(1) before first rsync run, sync again, do another run, sync again, and if the second round showed changed files, do a third one |
| 20:53.45 | ratrace | neilthereildeil: you can boot off debian ISO but ... oh you want to reuse the rsync binary already on teh disk. sure, I guess that could work. not sure if .so will load properly... I suppose you could hax that too |
| 20:54.03 | ratrace | LDPRELOAD and stuff |
| 20:54.23 | ratrace | LD_PRELOAD |
| 20:54.29 | neilthereildeil | yep |
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| 20:55.36 | neilthereildeil | but ill need help switching grub to point to the new LVM root volume, and rebuilding the initrd to support LVM |
| 20:55.41 | neilthereildeil | rebooting it now |
| 20:56.00 | ratrace | neilthereildeil: it'll do that automagically if you execute it from within the chroot of your new rootfs |
| 20:56.14 | ratrace | execute update-grub |
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| 21:01.34 | urk | jmcnaught> https://imgur.com/a/A3APkmA |
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| 21:05.29 | urk | milkt> https://imgur.com/a/A3APkmA |
| 21:07.01 | lembron | can i "install" a package that is installed already (as dependency) while there is an update available but without installing the update as a simple "apt-get install ..." would do? |
| 21:07.23 | urk | How do I stop "x" in Debian? |
| 21:08.59 | ratrace | blinks thrice |
| 21:09.15 | ratrace | lembron: can you rephrase that? |
| 21:09.19 | ratrace | urk: what's x? |
| 21:09.46 | milkt | X server? |
| 21:10.17 | milkt | lembron: do you mean you want to mark it as manually installed? |
| 21:12.22 | lembron | ratrace i have php-memcache installed, what "used to" pull in php5.6-memcache, php7.0-memcache php7.2-memcache and so on - now packaging has fixed this, and i can "apt-get update && apt-get install php5.6-memcache && apt autoremove && apt-get dist-upgrade", but i want the "actual upgrade" only to happen in the dist-upg not in the first install (what technically could be a noop) background: |
| 21:12.23 | lembron | https://github.com/oerdnj/deb.sury.org/issues/1555 |
| 21:12.26 | urk | ratrace> Never mind, I figured it out. Please disregard the post. I was trying to shut off the x window server which is now xorg. Command is Ctrl, Alt F1 |
| 21:12.36 | lembron | milkt that sounds about right yes |
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| 21:13.53 | milkt | lembron: not so sure what are you trying to do, but "apt-mark manual <package>" will mark package as manually installed |
| 21:14.52 | milkt | urk: pressing ctrl+alt+f1 put you to virtual console but do not shut off X server |
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| 21:16.04 | milkt | lembron: you can also prevent package from being upgraded with "apt-mark hold <package>" |
| 21:17.00 | PaddyF | hold on to me argentina |
| 21:17.36 | jmcnaught | urk: you will also need to install this package it seems: http://http.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/w/wireless-regdb/wireless-regdb_2020.04.29-2~bpo10+1_all.deb |
| 21:17.50 | lembron | "mark" is right on, dont want to hold - and hm, that gets me closer, but not fully there it seems http://paste.debian.net/hidden/48cfd17a/ |
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| 21:18.47 | lembron | 5.6-memcached will be kept now on remove, so thats good -- but "it will install new packages that autoremove also declares as no lnger needed" smells like some derpines... |
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| 21:20.09 | lembron | (i dont want to keep any non5.6 in the end) |
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| 21:20.34 | jmcnaught | urk: that wireless-regdb package will need to be installed before the linux-image package |
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| 21:21.55 | urk | jmcnaught> ok, where is it? Is it in the repos? I was just working on the desktop to see if I can fix the panel problem so that I don't have to reinstall the panel with every bootup. |
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| 21:22.29 | jmcnaught | urk: you will also need to install this package: http://http.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/w/wireless-regdb/wireless-regdb_2020.04.29-2~bpo10+1_all.deb |
| 21:22.34 | lembron | and just for understanding maybe: should/could i "remove" php-memcache now safely? - so is the dependency information decoupled from the actual package upgrade? |
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| 21:24.16 | lembron | if so: "apt-get update && apt-mark php5.6-memcache && apt-get remove php-memcache && apt-get dist-upgrade" would be fine? |
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| 21:25.42 | milkt | sorry i have no idea about how php stuff work, maybe other user can help |
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| 21:27.34 | lembron | i think this answers that as a "yes" https://github.com/oerdnj/deb.sury.org/issues/1465#issuecomment-711413605 |
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| 21:28.05 | lembron | pretty much my case, just that poor me has to stick on 5.6 instead of 7.2 ;F |
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| 21:30.20 | neilthereildeil | ok im booted off the useless debian ISO |
| 21:30.24 | neilthereildeil | how can i see my LVM VG? |
| 21:31.37 | neilthereildeil | lvs and vgs show me all the LVs and VGs |
| 21:31.43 | neilthereildeil | but i need to be able to mount it |
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| 21:31.51 | neilthereildeil | i need to mount the FS |
| 21:31.53 | neilthereildeil | inside the LV |
| 21:32.19 | greycat | mount /dev/yourvgname/yourlvname /place |
| 21:32.59 | neilthereildeil | it doesnt appear in /dev |
| 21:33.10 | neilthereildeil | (FYI i havent chrooted or anything) |
| 21:33.19 | neilthereildeil | my VG doesnt appear in dev |
| 21:33.21 | neilthereildeil | but vgs shows it |
| 21:33.28 | neilthereildeil | this is the shell from the debian installer |
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| 21:33.33 | greycat | *what* does it show you |
| 21:33.48 | greycat | oh, it's an installer, not a live system? ugh. |
| 21:34.04 | neilthereildeil | vgs shows me the volume group |
| 21:34.10 | greycat | WHAT does it show you |
| 21:34.29 | ratrace | vgchange -a vg0 or something liek that to activate it |
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| 21:34.49 | neilthereildeil | ah ok |
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| 21:46.49 | neilthereildeil | ratrace: hmm the VG doesnt show up in /dev... |
| 21:46.58 | urk | jmcnaught> Do I need some quotes around this wifi firmware you recommended? I have downloaded it, copied it to memory stick, installed in the new machine, and remounted /mnt |
| 21:47.00 | neilthereildeil | i need to pass the path to the dev VG to vgchange |
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| 21:47.51 | greycat | vgchange should accept a VG name without a path, and vgs should show you the name |
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| 21:49.09 | greycat | https://manpages.debian.org/buster/lvm2/vgchange.8.en.html |
| 21:49.26 | jmcnaught | urk: "dpkg -i /mnt/wireless-regdb_2020.04.29-2~bpo10+1_all.deb" you do not need the quotes |
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| 21:50.07 | greycat | which, since I know you won't or can't read it, tells you that you need to pass an argument to -a |
| 21:50.13 | greycat | vgchange -a y vgname |
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| 21:52.29 | neilthereildeil | damn, this useless kernel on the debian DVD doesnt have support for thin-pools |
| 21:52.31 | neilthereildeil | :( |
| 21:53.02 | greycat | the debian installer is a notoriously poor rescue environment |
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| 21:53.43 | urk | I keep getting error message indicating volume wasn't unmounted cleanly when trying to do "mount /dev/sda1 /mnt". |
| 21:53.51 | urk | Not sure why. |
| 21:54.04 | neilthereildeil | what should i be using instead for rescue? preferably a self-respecting ISO with a recent kernel that has rsycn and recent LVM support |
| 21:54.33 | jmcnaught | urk: have you been unmounting the device properly before removing it? |
| 21:54.50 | urk | yes |
| 21:54.54 | urk | religiously |
| 21:55.55 | sney | neilthereildeil: grml is usually recommended |
| 21:56.06 | urk | package installed with no errors. . hooray hooray |
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| 21:56.25 | neilthereildeil | ok thanks guys |
| 21:56.58 | jmcnaught | urk: nice! The linux-image package too? |
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| 21:58.28 | urk | jmcnaught> No errors this time, but a long list of missing firmware that is too long to post. I am going to copy it to a text file, and paste it in the Debian pastebin. |
| 21:58.50 | jmcnaught | urk: I would worry about that after you get connected to the network |
| 21:59.08 | jmcnaught | urk: as long as the firmware-iwlwifi package was also installed you should be able to reboot and connect to wifi |
| 22:01.18 | urk | status message indicates wifi networks available, but they are not displaying in the wifi icon. |
| 22:01.22 | wr | sney, ratrace i installed nvidia-driver package and it works, i now am on 800px but i seen max resolution would be 1440x900px i guess, since this is a old laptop just in case i need it... i will leave it like this, thanks for the help |
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| 22:03.28 | urk | jmcnaught> Looks like some additional firmware will be required in order to get wifi. There was a short list of 6-7 things at bootup. How do I pull this up? dmesg? |
| 22:04.07 | urk | I rebooted again, and this time the wifi connections came up. |
| 22:04.17 | urk | I am now entering the password for the wifi. |
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| 22:36.04 | urk | I am getting an error message when running apt-get update, and wondering what is the best way to fix it. The error message is here https://paste.debian.net/1187735/ |
| 22:36.35 | urk | Error message seems to indicate I am running from an unofficial repository. Should I change this to apt-secure, and then set this to the insecure option? |
| 22:37.14 | sney | just remove the cdrom entry from sources.list and run apt update |
| 22:37.25 | sney | you have a network connection now, you don't need it. |
| 22:37.41 | sney | !buster sources.list |
| 22:37.41 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main", and optionally "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <buster/updates> <buster-updates> and "man sources.list". |
| 22:38.18 | urk | sney> Thanks |
| 22:38.58 | urk | What happened to Chromium? I don't see it in the repos. |
| 22:39.36 | sney | chromium is in buster, you are probably just missing something from your sources.list. |
| 22:39.46 | sney | look at the message from dpkg above, and make *sure* that your sources.list matches. |
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| 23:30.41 | deadrom | hi |
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