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| 01:43.29 | dannylee | LXDE and Gnome are the best that Debian has...KDE is a weeny...KDE want a password every time i do any thing...the screensaver work with LXDE with no problem...LXDE just might be G0D... |
| 01:48.57 | dvs | !start a de war |
| 01:48.57 | dpkg | Emacs blows goats! |
| 01:57.55 | dasunt | If you are bored, I'm looking for a nice way to host VMs on a debian server. Ideally with a web interface as well as command line options |
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| 01:58.49 | sney | you pretty much just described proxmox |
| 01:59.19 | dasunt | That's what I'm evaluating right now. |
| 02:00.34 | dasunt | However, it does not play that nicely with wifi so far. |
| 02:01.01 | sney | it's what I use as the hypervisor for my home stuff these days. no major complaints. |
| 02:01.22 | dasunt | My AP should support WDS, but when I try the typical howtos, things break. |
| 02:01.43 | sney | if proxmox did something weird with wifi support, it's a kernel thing, so you'd need to ask in ##proxmox as that's where most of their customizations live. |
| 02:01.58 | dasunt | I may wander over there. |
| 02:02.22 | dasunt | Admittedly, vm hosts sharing a wifi network is not a standard config for some reason. :D |
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| 02:04.50 | sney | could always pci passthrough your wifi nic to a debian guest, and use it as the router for whatever instances need to talk to other wifi hosts |
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| 02:08.49 | longshot | What's the "right" way to tell systemd to clear the screen on logout? |
| 02:11.10 | genr8_ | dasunt, the concept requires the host to be the wifi host, and make a virtual network for the guests. the guests cannot use wifi. |
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| 02:15.13 | dasunt | genr8_: I discovered that. It seems complicated by the fact that without WDS, the AP will only allow one MAC address from the wifi card. |
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| 02:46.43 | qih | I like the 'dpkg' bots, cool feature 8-) |
| 02:47.45 | qih | I am using XFCE4.12 on Debian Buster, and want to install Simplified Language input support. What is the most reliable method? Gnome-Chinese or Google's Pinyin method? |
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| 02:48.52 | qih | I think last time I configured ZH_Simplified, was on Ubuntu 18, using: https://leimao.github.io/blog/Ubuntu-Gaming-Chinese-Input/ |
| 02:49.49 | sney | if that worked on ubuntu 18, the same thing should be fine in buster |
| 02:50.05 | sney | ,i fcitx-googlepinyin |
| 02:50.08 | judd | Package fcitx-googlepinyin (utils, optional) in buster/amd64: Fcitx wrapper for Google Pinyin IM engine. Version: 0.1.6-4; Size: 11.9k; Installed: 65k; Homepage: https://gitlab.com/fcitx/fcitx-googlepinyin |
| 02:50.50 | qih | sney: Thanks, I'll run with it +1 |
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| 03:09.21 | qih | If I wanted the last XFCE, which is ver 4.16 which is out today, can I 'apt remove/purge xfce4' and reinstall using a .tar.gz or is it more complex than that? |
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| 03:20.13 | sney | more complex. large software suites like desktop environments don't backport easily. |
| 03:20.58 | sney | 4.16 is in debian bullseye, which is the current 'testing' branch. bullseye will be released as debian 11 sometime later this year. |
| 03:21.03 | qih | Ah right, no worries, just checked Debian Packages, and XFCE_Meta has been moved to Testing. |
| 03:21.14 | qih | What sney said 8-) |
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| 03:44.35 | qih | sney: That method worked fine, FCITX on Debian, using Google-Pinyin, done! |
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| 04:08.13 | pankaj | I have uninstalled 'network-manager' and 'wpa-supplicant' and wlp3s0 is up DORMANT.... Trying to use iwctl to connect to wireless network and everytime I do 'station wlp3s0 connect ESSID' it says : 'Operation is already in progress' or something like that. |
| 04:08.30 | pankaj | Restarted iwd and 'systemd-resolved' and even restarted the system itself but no results |
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| 04:58.27 | pankaj | Sorry, I was disconnected. While using 'iwctl' to connect to wireless network I am getting following notification while connecting to ESSID : 'Operation already in progress' |
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| 05:07.23 | isapgswell | what the default opencl in a multigpu scenario? |
| 05:07.31 | isapgswell | intel + nvidia |
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| 06:09.00 | jsync | If I install without selecting a mirror, how do I later install packages available in tasksel upon setting up archive sources.list? |
| 06:09.59 | jsync | I'm logged in at a command line. |
| 06:10.10 | pankaj | Sorry, I was disconnected. While using 'iwctl' to connect to wireless network I am getting following notification while connecting to ESSID : 'Operation already in progress' |
| 06:10.58 | wsky | maybe there is another process spawned doing the same thing |
| 06:11.05 | wsky | see your process list |
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| 06:19.21 | jsync | I logged in as root, & "tasksel" isn't pulling up for some reason with a fresh debian wheezy install. |
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| 06:25.57 | jsync | I think it's because my hotspot tethering doesn't work without all the other packages installed to support that. |
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| 06:34.13 | alex11 | ...wheezy? |
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| 06:40.41 | abff | wheezy became oldstable in 2015 x_x |
| 06:40.57 | abff | long term support ended in 2018 |
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| 07:05.03 | craigevil | uses Lenny best version of Debian ever :) |
| 07:06.16 | wsky | take your roofies |
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| 07:09.39 | isapgswell | is that possible to loopback: LOCAL, UNKNOWN and PARANOID |
| 07:09.41 | isapgswell | ? |
| 07:10.00 | isapgswell | like in /etc/hosts, 127.0.0.1 LOCAL |
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| 07:10.23 | isapgswell | 127.0.0.1 UNKNOWN |
| 07:10.32 | isapgswell | 127.0.0.1 PARANOID |
| 07:10.58 | hegemoOn | morning, i often have the feeling that when i use a pref file to define i want a package from backport, it doesnt work much |
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| 07:23.30 | nkuttler | hegemoOn: pref file doesn't work? |
| 07:24.20 | themill | (what did you try, in what way doesn't it work etc etc) |
| 07:29.15 | hegemoOn | do i need to specify -t buster-backports when using pref file ? |
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| 07:49.12 | jelly | hegemoOn, hard to say. pastebin your file and output of "apt-cache policy packagename" and "apt-cache policy" |
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| 08:56.25 | NetTerminalGene | guys, pulseaudio eats cpu around %5 even when there is no job for it. what should i do? |
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| 08:57.36 | __marco | Morning. Any 2-factor application for debian? The only one I found is authy |
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| 08:59.31 | apollo13 | __marco: what would you like to use, you can use any totp app |
| 08:59.45 | apollo13 | you can probably also add support for yubikeys aetc⦠|
| 08:59.58 | ratrace | NetTerminalGene: and how much cpu does it eat when it does something, eg. audio playing? |
| 09:00.39 | NetTerminalGene | ratrace: same amount O.O |
| 09:01.20 | wyre | how can I list all *files* owned by a package? |
| 09:01.22 | ratrace | NetTerminalGene: you could try killing it and restarting it. pulseaudio -k followed by pulseaudio -D in a terminal, as your user |
| 09:01.32 | wyre | using dpkg -L I can see the directories but I'd like to see the files |
| 09:01.48 | ratrace | NetTerminalGene: if it still consumes 5% ... dunno what else you can do. Is that some potato of a CPU there? |
| 09:02.07 | NetTerminalGene | ratrace: no. there was no such problem before |
| 09:02.18 | ratrace | wyre: files are very much listed with dpkg -L except those that are post-install'ed or otherwise produced like dkms stuff |
| 09:02.23 | NetTerminalGene | i am suspecting vlc did something |
| 09:02.29 | ratrace | possibru |
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| 09:24.40 | __marco | apollo13, I do have a yubikey, I also want another option to be able to login to <any-service> even when I forgot the yubikey at home. But nothing that run on the phone, I am looking for a pc application |
| 09:25.08 | apollo13 | __marco: totp is supported by most password managers |
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| 09:48.46 | Guest31144 | Hi everyone, i need a help on my Debian Sid |
| 09:50.23 | Guest31144 | I couldn't update my Debian Sid since March 03. |
| 09:51.18 | avu | !debian-next |
| 09:51.18 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc |
| 09:51.30 | avu | Guest31144: ^ |
| 09:53.00 | Guest31144 | I used to update my Debian Sid twice a week, but on last I've got a erro message: gnustep-base-runtime : Depends: gnustep-base-common (= 1.27.0-3) but 1.26.0-7 is to be installed, libgnustep-base1.27 : Depends: gnustep-base-common (= 1.27.0-3) but 1.26.0-7 is to be installed, E: Broken packages |
| 09:54.31 | ratrace | Guest31144: running Debian Sid assumes you have the knowledge fixing issues like that and didn't have to ask. |
| 09:55.03 | Guest31144 | I know RTFM |
| 09:56.00 | ratrace | no, not really. it meant to say you shouldn't run Sid if you don't understand that error message. in particular, Sid's regularly broken, there's no guarantees that one update will be clean with satisfiable dependencies. |
| 09:56.22 | ratrace | also, offtopic here. please look at the factoid ava posted for you. |
| 09:57.46 | ratrace | *avu, sorry |
| 09:57.56 | __marco | apollo13, thanks, found it. |
| 09:58.45 | Guest31144 | Thank you, ratrace and dpkg. I spend one year on Debian Sid, without any big issue, and I still love it. |
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| 10:13.42 | avu | having luck in the past is unfortunately no guarantee for luck in the present or future :) |
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| 12:08.50 | ratrace | Mmmh-hmm. I welcome this. #EnRustTrixie2025! https://sylvestre.ledru.info/blog/2021/03/09/debian-running-on-rust-coreutils |
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| 12:40.34 | deadrom | need toinstall debian from iso on a machine with no internet connection. standard server installation, mabye apache or nginx, maybe xfce. which ISO do I go for? |
| 12:41.52 | jolt | deadrom: I would get one from https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/ maybe the xfce one for you then |
| 12:42.16 | jolt | Oh, no servers on that on, darn. |
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| 12:46.53 | jolt | deadrom: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-dvd/ that image if you can use dvd? |
| 12:47.16 | jolt | (or usb/netboot for that matter) |
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| 12:52.33 | deadrom | jolt: uploading 3.7G to that site would be my last resort. |
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| 13:06.09 | TheBigK02 | linux without internet... is painful ... atleast if u have no local mirror or something |
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| 13:24.48 | mspe | TheBigK02: team local mirrors \o/ |
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| 13:31.14 | TheBigK02 | mspe: :D |
| 13:31.35 | mspe | TheBigK02: https://ttm.sh/2VZ.png |
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| 13:35.55 | tinga | Hi. I'm running stretch, currently without pulseaudio running. I have problems witch echoes, while using headphone + external mic, and it's clear that the echo is not acoustic but generated electronically. |
| 13:36.43 | tinga | When I unplug and replug the headphone + mic, there's about a 1 second span where the mic sound is louder and unfiltered, and then something kicks in that apparently processes it. |
| 13:36.43 | jelly | mirrors have gotten a bit big |
| 13:36.54 | jelly | 2021/03/09 10:57:29 [6688] Total file size: 1420461383853 bytes |
| 13:36.55 | tinga | Any idea what that could be? |
| 13:37.32 | tinga | (Here's what I'm using to listen to my mic: arecord -t raw -f dat -r 22050 -c 1 | cat | aplay -t raw -f dat -r 22050 -c 1 -) |
| 13:37.53 | mspe | jelly: yeah I only sync selected releases and architectures |
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| 13:58.42 | TheBigK02 | yeah, we also sync only what we need pretty much. |
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| 13:59.15 | TheBigK02 | i feel like its a duty for the community to use ur own mirror... especially when u run a lot of instances |
| 14:00.23 | ratrace | or at least apt cacher ng thingy |
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| 14:07.07 | TheBigK02 | ratrace: agreed |
| 14:07.34 | TheBigK02 | private i dont mirror ... its not worth it... for 2 instances... i have probably less traffic when i download directly :D |
| 14:07.50 | jelly | community doody |
| 14:08.24 | TheBigK02 | I was stumbeling today on TRIM ... im quite confused why its not activated by default... any idea? |
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| 14:08.28 | jelly | I really can't tell whether having a local mirror saves or wastes bandwidth |
| 14:08.57 | TheBigK02 | i would guess for around 2 instances it will save bandwith... without knowing it obviously |
| 14:09.00 | jelly | TheBigK02, it can affect performance, best do it on a weekly basis |
| 14:09.05 | TheBigK02 | 200 i mean, sorry |
| 14:09.11 | TheBigK02 | yes, thats what im doing |
| 14:09.20 | TheBigK02 | but why is the timer not activated by default |
| 14:09.26 | jelly | ¯\_(ã)_/¯ |
| 14:09.49 | jelly | how does debian know that you have an SSD |
| 14:10.06 | TheBigK02 | cat /sys/block/nvme1n1/queue/rotational |
| 14:10.32 | TheBigK02 | btrfs does know it as well... why not debian |
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| 14:13.34 | TheBigK02 | would u recommend when using cryptsetup, using the encryption support of the ssd? u could use it if u wanted it, right? I never did it. im just curious |
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| 14:21.57 | TheBigK02 | https://termbin.com/mflf but performance is kinda good with cpu already :) |
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| 14:57.15 | tcurdt | I have something overwriting my custom /etc/resolv.conf ... any pointers on how to find out which process is doing this? |
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| 14:58.53 | jstolarek | I'm looking for a good introductory-level tutorial on debianizing packages. Any recommendations? |
| 14:59.45 | jstolarek | good = explains what is actually being done and why |
| 15:00.06 | jstolarek | and possibly gives workflow tips |
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| 15:13.47 | Ede|Popede | !packaging |
| 15:13.47 | dpkg | Visit http://mentors.debian.net/intro-maintainers for information on how to package for Debian. Also ask me about <nmg> <package basics> <policy> <mentors> and <best practices>. See the #debian-mentors or #packaging channels on irc.oftc.net. |
| 15:13.54 | Ede|Popede | !package basics |
| 15:13.55 | dpkg | "Basics of the Debian package management system" is a chapter of the Debian GNU/Linux <FAQ>, which describes the Debian package format. http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-pkg_basics . To create your own Debian packages, ask me about <nmg>. |
| 15:14.08 | Ede|Popede | jstolarek, how does this sound? |
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| 15:15.53 | tcurdt | Maybe I need to change /etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf to set my resolv.conf ... that kind of makes sense |
| 15:16.43 | cws | tcurdt: Are you using dhclient manually, or are you using /etc/network/interfaces? |
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| 15:17.48 | tcurdt | fresh cloud server install with buster on it ... and it seems they use dhclient to configure the interfaces |
| 15:18.14 | cws | Ew. Why do cloud providers feel the need to mangle default installs? |
| 15:18.15 | jelly | tcurdt, is there any mention of resolvconf in the changed file? |
| 15:18.28 | jelly | tcurdt, or a comment like |
| 15:18.29 | jelly | # DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE BY HAND -- YOUR CHANGES WILL BE OVERWRITTEN |
| 15:18.56 | tcurdt | nope ... just nameservers |
| 15:19.15 | jelly | weird, and sounds custom |
| 15:19.38 | jelly | is it a real file or a symlink to someplace else? |
| 15:24.35 | wigums | tcurdt i cheat and make resolv.conf immutable... chattr +i makes it so nothing can write to it |
| 15:25.00 | tcurdt | the last resort :) |
| 15:25.16 | tcurdt | right now I want to try supersede in the dhclient.confg |
| 15:25.37 | tcurdt | just not sure how to trigger the re-write |
| 15:25.54 | tcurdt | I assume there are leases involved |
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| 15:32.08 | hemebond | Does anyone know if it's possible to use fontconfig to force Firefox to try a Japanese font before a regular latin font? Japanese text in web pages are difficult-to-read bitmap fonts because they're not marked up correctly. Wondering if I can work around the problem. It used to look okay. |
| 15:32.20 | genghiz | Guys, is one allowed to have multiple override files overriding similar settings in systemd? |
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| 15:35.20 | tcurdt | the dhclient supersede approach works .... just not sure why it adds a "." after the domain-search |
| 15:35.36 | tcurdt | is that how it is supposed to be? |
| 15:36.10 | tcurdt | it's "search service.fsn1.consul." instead of "search service.fsn1.consul" |
| 15:37.22 | jelly | that's not an issue, every domain name has an implicit "." at the end |
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| 15:37.37 | tcurdt | yes, I figured |
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| 15:38.31 | tcurdt | just never seen it like that in a resolv.conf before ... maybe I haven't check enough over the past years :-p |
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| 16:18.59 | taylan | hi, I have a Debian VM running in VMWare Workstation, and updated from Buster to Bullseye. I used to be able to remap AltGr (right-alt on German keyboard) to Ctrl via the line 'xkeymap.keycode.108 = "0x11d"' in the .vmx file, but this doesn't seem to work anymore. does anyone know something about this? |
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| 16:20.32 | taylan | I can't seem to do it with xmodmap or a custom .xkb file read by xkbcomp either, not sure if because of VMWare or because of Wayland |
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| 16:23.28 | jstolarek | @Ede|Popede: thanks. I've seen some tutorials on debian wiki and they were really poor. Your link has some stuff I haven't seen yet so let me check it out and if it's not what I'm lookin for I'll come back complaining :-) |
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| 18:37.45 | Sayona | Hi, I am tried to install nginx + php-fpm from "deb https://packages.sury.org/php/ buster main" and I use socket file, but something is odd. Is wokring only for 2 sec if I reset php7.4-fpm .. after that I see in nginx log: HP message: PHP Fatal error: Uncaught Error: Call to undefined.......... upstream: "fastcgi://unix:/var/run/php/php7.4-fpm.sock:" |
| 18:37.55 | Sayona | anyone have any idea? |
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| 18:39.42 | sney | Sayona: ondrej's repo has its own support tracker, https://github.com/oerdnj/deb.sury.org/issues . Third party repos are not supported in #debian. |
| 18:40.06 | Sayona | what is the best way to install multiple php version? |
| 18:41.07 | sney | separate containers/vms, if we're being honest. but if this is for a development system, sury may still be your best option, but that doesn't change #debian's policy about supporting software from outside of debian. |
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| 18:41.50 | Sayona | ah :) |
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| 18:51.22 | fourstepper | is it possible to boot up debian from a disk without access to the console or monitor? Just flash the ISO to the disk and go? |
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| 18:57.42 | sney | fourstepper: there's an option in the installer to continue the installation over ssh, but you need to start it locally. |
| 18:58.05 | sney | fourstepper: maaaaybe the -standard live image would do what you want, but I don't remember offhand if it has ssh access or any other daemons turned on by default |
| 18:58.38 | fourstepper | right - ideally I would love if it worked somehow automatically, like the ubuntu raspberry pi iso's |
| 18:58.52 | sney | you can write a preseed for the installer to make it install non-interactively |
| 18:59.04 | fourstepper | I like Debian more, but right now those make it so easy to teardown my pi's, reflash and reuse them.. |
| 18:59.10 | sney | also, if this is for a rpi, there are some semi-official debian rpi images |
| 18:59.31 | sney | https://raspi.debian.net/ |
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| 19:25.42 | alex11 | rsync -av / /media/alex/<id> works for a simple backup right? |
| 19:26.06 | greycat | AT THE BARE MINIMUM you want to do something to stop it from recursing into /proc and /sys |
| 19:26.18 | greycat | and /media, since that would be an infinite loop |
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| 19:29.52 | alex11 | --exclude= /proc /sys or something? |
| 19:30.58 | greycat | You have not provided ANY details about your system, so what kind of answer do you expect to hear? You back up the things that you cannot easily replace. For most people that's /etc and /home. |
| 19:31.30 | greycat | If you think you need to "back up everything", then you do each file system. So you start by stating what you have as file systems. Just one big /? / and /home? |
| 19:31.59 | greycat | Then you back up each one individually, using the option to prevent recursing across file system lines. Usually it's something like -xdev or -x. |
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| 19:52.25 | leibniz | What uppp |
| 19:52.53 | leibniz | I npm install flv.js |
| 19:53.18 | leibniz | But when I <script src=flv.js> itâs not working |
| 19:53.22 | leibniz | I have Debian 10 |
| 19:53.40 | leibniz | Any one around Togo e some advice? |
| 19:55.48 | sney | you probably have to tell it to look in /usr/lib/nodejs somehow. #node.js may know more. |
| 19:56.40 | leibniz | Ok |
| 19:56.50 | sney | or wait, /usr/lib/nodejs is for modules installed with apt. npm likely uses a different prefix. |
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| 19:59.48 | leibniz | No on is on JavaScript or node.js |
| 20:00.01 | leibniz | well I found there itâs kept with npm -g |
| 20:00.18 | leibniz | do I have to restart Apache of something after npm install flv.js |
| 20:00.28 | leibniz | I mean |
| 20:01.01 | greycat | I think the question you're asking is, "How do I make my web pages use the things that I installed with npm? I'm using apache." |
| 20:01.16 | greycat | i have no idea what the answer is, but that seems to be the question. |
| 20:01.37 | sney | alis says there are 643 users in #node.js and you only found out about that channel 5 minutes ago. maybe be a little patient. |
| 20:01.44 | leibniz | yea that is the questionn |
| 20:02.09 | leibniz | no i stay with my debian crew |
| 20:02.14 | leibniz | debian for life bro |
| 20:02.24 | leibniz | i don't like going to the javascript chumps for help |
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| 20:02.41 | greycat | *plonk* |
| 20:02.43 | leibniz | greycat |
| 20:02.43 | sney | "debian for life" but you're using a separate package manager and expecting people in here to know about it |
| 20:02.51 | leibniz | well |
| 20:02.53 | leibniz | ok |
| 20:03.14 | wintergirl | this isn't a debian question |
| 20:03.21 | leibniz | look |
| 20:04.13 | leibniz | i'm using debian 10 stretch |
| 20:04.25 | leibniz | i pressed npm install flv.js |
| 20:04.29 | leibniz | or sudo |
| 20:04.31 | leibniz | whatnot |
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| 20:05.01 | leibniz | i figured there was a debian specific procedure i'd have to run |
| 20:05.26 | beelzebuzz | those javascript chumps would probably know |
| 20:06.02 | oxek | `sudo npm` is just asking for trouble |
| 20:06.11 | leibniz | i agree |
| 20:06.14 | leibniz | it seems like magic |
| 20:06.17 | leibniz | i don't like it |
| 20:06.33 | leibniz | and i will never like git hub |
| 20:06.37 | leibniz | it just doesn't set right with me |
| 20:08.30 | jmcnaught | leibniz: The npm(1) man page says "See npm help 5 npm-folders to learn about where npm puts stuff." and mentions two modes, global and local. Probably a good place to start. |
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| 20:13.27 | leibniz | ok |
| 20:13.33 | leibniz | well i guess i went in head first |
| 20:13.40 | leibniz | i got the streaming bit to work on alpine so i was excited |
| 20:13.55 | leibniz | i have to figure out how to get npm to work on debian before i can use my own flv player |
| 20:14.11 | leibniz | and now i found a good a article on github to learn it |
| 20:14.18 | leibniz | better so the javascript bros didn't let me down |
| 20:14.26 | leibniz | BUT |
| 20:14.33 | leibniz | they didn't solve anything |
| 20:14.38 | leibniz | they just gave me more paper work |
| 20:14.46 | leibniz | it looks like it's going to be a tough one |
| 20:14.59 | sney | oddly enough, when learning how to do something new, the best approach is to start with the manual |
| 20:15.11 | leibniz | agreed |
| 20:16.07 | leibniz | but trial and error is an effective method when learning something as well |
| 20:16.38 | leibniz | the community on freenode has played an essential part in my learning process |
| 20:17.20 | leibniz | and although it seems to be a burden to ASK you guys a question pertaining to javascript on a debian channel |
| 20:17.23 | leibniz | it's really not |
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| 20:20.07 | abff | this reminds me of the time I almost cared about pip |
| 20:20.29 | abff | but then I installed the one program I wanted and forgot about it |
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| 20:43.15 | rabbitnightmare | so I thought about switching over to debian or giving it a spin, question, how do I get the latest stable kernel kde etc? |
| 20:43.45 | rabbitnightmare | everything seems insanely out of date |
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| 20:43.56 | cws | Debian aims for stability, not shiny new. |
| 20:44.15 | rabbitnightmare | and thats fine if the updates arent stable but they are |
| 20:44.25 | rabbitnightmare | the updates to KDE and the Linux Kernel are for stability |
| 20:44.36 | fourstepper | duh |
| 20:44.41 | cws | Let's try again. Debian aims for stability, not shiny new. |
| 20:44.45 | rabbitnightmare | the older version of KDE is quite unstable |
| 20:44.59 | cws | Stability also includes not suddenly changing large swaths of the system in the middle of a release. |
| 20:45.07 | rabbitnightmare | the new version while shiny and new is a stability update |
| 20:45.07 | sney | debian provides newer kernels for stable releases in stable-backports. currently the same 5.10 is available in buster-backports as in unstable. |
| 20:45.29 | rabbitnightmare | 5.11 is what I need for my 6800XT |
| 20:45.39 | rabbitnightmare | 5.11.5 actually |
| 20:45.52 | rabbitnightmare | the older kernal has issues with my hardware |
| 20:45.56 | cws | rabbitnightmare: And a massive update in the middle of a release will no doubt affect a ton of other things, leading to changes that people do not want in the middle of a release. |
| 20:46.08 | cws | That is part of "stability." |
| 20:46.18 | rabbitnightmare | and thats fine but how do I add it to my install? |
| 20:46.40 | sney | right now it looks like debian 11 (bullseye) will release with 5.10, though some patches from newer kernels may be backported to the debian package. |
| 20:46.54 | rabbitnightmare | why so old when better updates are out? |
| 20:47.03 | rabbitnightmare | that makes no sense to me |
| 20:47.05 | sney | for newer than that, you'd have to build it yourself. (but building a debian kernel is a pretty easy/automatic process) |
| 20:47.07 | cws | You seem to have a problem comprehending what's being said to you. |
| 20:47.19 | rabbitnightmare | sney good to know |
| 20:47.20 | cws | Which I believe is why you got run out of #archlinux as well. |
| 20:47.22 | sney | read this section of the debian faq for more information: https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/choosing.en.html#s3.1.3 |
| 20:47.47 | greycat | The problem we have is that what Debian means by stable is COMPLETELY different from what most people mean by stable. Most people think it means "bug-free" or "doesn't crash". Debian thinks it means "does not change". |
| 20:47.55 | rabbitnightmare | I didnt get run out I spoke the truth and yall couldnt handle it so please keep that out of this channel |
| 20:48.00 | cws | tried explaining that. |
| 20:48.05 | cws | moves on with his day. |
| 20:48.28 | jmcnaught | rabbitnightmare: Debian freezes the versions of all packages in the repos every two years, fixes all the release critical bugs in those frozen packages, then a new Debian Stable is released. Stable sticks to the same versions for its entire lifecycle, with security fixes being backported. |
| 20:48.38 | greycat | Debian 10 released with kde version whateverthefuck. That is the version of kde that it has. That version WILL. NOT. CHANGE. |
| 20:48.51 | Urk | Any recommendations for a disk checker? I would like to make sure my disks don't have issues. |
| 20:48.58 | rabbitnightmare | good to know |
| 20:49.01 | greycat | When Debian 11 releases, it will have a different version. That version WILL. NOT. CHANGE. |
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| 20:49.12 | cws | Urk: Any specific issue you're having? |
| 20:50.20 | Urk | cws> With respect to my disks, its just checking things out because it is new, but the folder structure wasn't installed/preserved during the new Debian install. Also, the memory stick has consistently indicated something was left on it when umounting, but I have never done that. |
| 20:50.56 | rabbitnightmare | cws if you could refrain from verbally abusing me I would greatly appreciate it, and I understand that you might not like what some have to say, but there is absolutely no need to bring that kind of drama wherever you seem to reside |
| 20:51.09 | Urk | Its a new laptop under warranty so its good to check things out. The microphone is completely unsuable and I have submitted a warranty claim to Dell. So far they haven't responded, but they depend on their technical team in India to forward things.. . . |
| 20:52.04 | rabbitnightmare | Urk is it one of their XPS Linux laptops? |
| 20:52.18 | Urk | rabbitnightmare> yes |
| 20:52.23 | rabbitnightmare | thanks for saving me money |
| 20:52.32 | rabbitnightmare | system76 it is then |
| 20:52.49 | Urk | Phenominal screen brightness, great case, great processing power, decent color gamut. |
| 20:53.02 | rabbitnightmare | oh I am quite sure, Dell makes solid products |
| 20:53.33 | rabbitnightmare | I have an older XPS Ubuntu thing here and the porcelain cracked |
| 20:53.36 | cws | rabbitnightmare: I hate to tell you this, but being called out for your persistent behavior isn't abuse. It's feedback. You may not like that feedback, but not liking it doesn't make it false, abusive, or dramatic. Learn from this and become a better person. |
| 20:53.54 | Urk | rabbitnightmare> Do not buy a System 76. It is significantly worse for a number of reasons. I have a new one sitting in the closet and there it will stay. They only support Ubuntu (Debian unstable). Additionally they do not participate in the shared Linux Software infrastructure, and didn't even know what it was when I contacted them. |
| 20:54.01 | rabbitnightmare | I simply asked for help, cws, and got berated for it |
| 20:54.05 | cws | I had a system76 once, never again. |
| 20:54.09 | sney | !offtopic |
| 20:54.10 | dpkg | #debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day. |
| 20:54.46 | rabbitnightmare | so please, like sney said, refrain from abusing me |
| 20:54.52 | Urk | Dell beats System 76 hands down, but there are issues with some of the hardware components because their stuff is built overseas. Unfortunately the new Stimulus bill puts a death sentence on future manufacturing in this country, and raises the minimum wage to $25/hr by 2025. Initially it will go to $15/hr, and its already signed by Lord Biden. |
| 20:55.16 | cws | Oh god, take the politics somewhere else. Neptune is a good start. |
| 20:55.17 | sney | Urk: that goes for you too, none of that has anything to do with debian support |
| 20:55.57 | rabbitnightmare | cws please stop, you started this, I am asking nicely to stop |
| 20:55.59 | Urk | sney> You are right, and I should have suggested moving it to #debian-offtopic. |
| 20:56.14 | sney | rabbitnightmare: that goes for you too, if you want to fight with cws please take it to a pm |
| 20:56.22 | rabbitnightmare | I dont want to fight |
| 20:56.29 | cws | has long moved on. |
| 20:56.31 | sney | then stop bringing it up. |
| 20:56.34 | Urk | rabbitnightmare> #debian-offtopic. |
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| 21:02.26 | rabbitnightmare | is there a repository I can add for "unstable" newer versions of software or is that frowned upon in Debian? |
| 21:02.59 | sney | only if you're already running testing/unstable. mixing unstable with stable is a quick way to break your OS |
| 21:03.13 | wintergirl | not everyone in here is American and US politics is a snooze for most of us |
| 21:03.17 | rabbitnightmare | and I completely understand that |
| 21:04.00 | rabbitnightmare | sney so if I use d11 with unstable, I can at least compile later versions than whats even provided? |
| 21:04.06 | sney | tbh if you want to use debian with new(er) software versions, you should probably just start with testing. read the https://deb.li/sidfaq for best practices and note that the support channel is different |
| 21:04.14 | rabbitnightmare | testing |
| 21:04.20 | *** join/#debian Filohuhum_ (~filohuhum@gateway/tor-sasl/filohuhum) |
| 21:04.20 | rabbitnightmare | right |
| 21:05.11 | rabbitnightmare | I feel I can resolve a lot of issues myself, I am just testing things out on my shiny new pc, some of the hardware which has support in later versions of software, earlier software doesnt seem to support |
| 21:05.33 | sney | and yes, testing/unstable is how debian develops the next stable release, so 'compile later versions' is natively supported by the packaging tools. |
| 21:06.08 | greycat | They're probably looking for buster-backports. |
| 21:06.08 | rabbitnightmare | I take full responsibility if I brick my install lol |
| 21:07.12 | sney | greycat: no desktop metas in backports |
| 21:07.39 | sney | I appreciate the impulse to not recommend testing to newbies, but logically that doesn't really fit here |
| 21:07.39 | greycat | Fair enough, you can't backport a Desktop Environment. Not sanely. |
| 21:11.46 | Sayona | hey, why in debian nginx version is 1.4 ? |
| 21:12.18 | sney | it's 1.14, because that was the stable nginx when buster was released. |
| 21:12.35 | Urk | Would anyone know how to run the e2fsprogs test? I don't find a man page for it, and the instructions found at https://www.linux.com/news/hardware-diagnostics-open-source-tools/ don't work. I'm just running a routine hard disk checker. |
| 21:12.39 | sney | see https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/choosing.en.html#s3.1.3 or all of the above comments about debian stability |
| 21:13.10 | sney | Urk: when looking at howtos on the internet, always check the date. that one is from 2006. |
| 21:13.21 | sney | Urk: for hard drive testing, usually smartctl is all anyone needs. |
| 21:13.42 | Urk | sney> Thanks, overlooked it. e2sprogs is installed by default on my system, but there should be a man page for it. |
| 21:13.44 | greycat | ,v nginx |
| 21:13.45 | judd | Package: nginx on amd64 -- jessie: 1.6.2-5+deb8u5; jessie-security: 1.6.2-5+deb8u6; stretch-security: 1.10.3-1+deb9u3; stretch: 1.10.3-1+deb9u4; stretch-backports: 1.14.1-1~bpo9+1; buster: 1.14.2-2+deb10u3; buster-security: 1.14.2-2+deb10u3; bullseye: 1.18.0-6; sid: 1.18.0-6 |
| 21:17.09 | Urk | sney> I tried running smartctl, and it won't detect my /nvme0n10* |
| 21:17.22 | Urk | sney> It only detects devices in /dev |
| 21:17.51 | cws | nvme* should be in /dev |
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| 21:19.14 | Sayona | pfff |
| 21:19.18 | rabbitnightmare | urk what do you get when you type lsblk? |
| 21:20.48 | Urk | rabbitnightmare> /nvme0n10* (* is referring to 1-6) |
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| 21:21.05 | cws | Urk: That's a device node. It's not going to be in the root. |
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| 21:21.18 | rabbitnightmare | so it isn't showing something akin to /dev/nvme#n#? |
| 21:21.31 | Urk | rabbitnightmare> No |
| 21:21.44 | rabbitnightmare | then the drive will not mount properly |
| 21:22.12 | Sayona | sucks |
| 21:22.55 | rabbitnightmare | I have had several nvme drives do this and its not any specific distribution related issue |
| 21:23.11 | rabbitnightmare | are you booting up in BIOS mode or EFI mode? |
| 21:23.30 | Sayona | I think is stupid... nginx 1.8 + php7.4-fpm not working correctly in debian 10: https://paste.laravel.io/b60d5b12-3dd1-410f-8c5d-b56c00e3b2e1 |
| 21:23.43 | Sayona | if I put nginx1.4 it's works |
| 21:24.06 | Urk | cws> That is what comes up when I run lsblk |
| 21:24.14 | Urk | cws> How do I fix this problem? |
| 21:24.14 | cws | pastebin the output of lsblk |
| 21:24.20 | greycat | you should not have nginx 1.8 ins table. |
| 21:24.40 | Sayona | hmm |
| 21:24.43 | rabbitnightmare | Urk try pcie_aspm=of |
| 21:24.48 | greycat | even oldstable has 1.10 |
| 21:24.56 | greycat | current stable has 1.14 |
| 21:25.00 | rabbitnightmare | see if after that it shows up in /dev |
| 21:25.33 | Sayona | greycat, but is stupid 1.8 is stable |
| 21:25.34 | rabbitnightmare | you may have to add pci=nomsi to kernel boot args |
| 21:25.41 | Sayona | greycat, but is stupid 1.18 is stable |
| 21:25.42 | Sayona | sorry |
| 21:25.44 | greycat | NO RELEASE of Debian has nginx 1.8. |
| 21:26.03 | Urk | rabbitnightmare> Is that the full command? If so, nothing happened, but no errors. |
| 21:26.04 | rabbitnightmare | again this seems to be an ongoing issue with WD and Kingston NVME drives |
| 21:26.05 | Sayona | O miss a 1 :) it's about 1.18 |
| 21:26.05 | greycat | Debian 11, which is not released yet, will have 1.18. Unless that changes by the release. |
| 21:26.26 | rabbitnightmare | Urk in grub or whatever bootloader add pci=nomsi to kernel boot arguments |
| 21:26.27 | greycat | Once again because people don't seem to read: |
| 21:26.27 | Sayona | :(( |
| 21:26.30 | greycat | ,v nginx |
| 21:26.31 | judd | Package: nginx on amd64 -- jessie: 1.6.2-5+deb8u5; jessie-security: 1.6.2-5+deb8u6; stretch-security: 1.10.3-1+deb9u3; stretch: 1.10.3-1+deb9u4; stretch-backports: 1.14.1-1~bpo9+1; buster: 1.14.2-2+deb10u3; buster-security: 1.14.2-2+deb10u3; bullseye: 1.18.0-6; sid: 1.18.0-6 |
| 21:26.42 | rabbitnightmare | Urk this works 50% of the time |
| 21:26.50 | Urk | rabbitnightmare: This is what shows up on my screen http://paste.debian.net/1188599/ |
| 21:27.19 | greycat | buster has 1.14. it was released with 1.14. that is the version that it has. that version will not change. |
| 21:27.25 | rabbitnightmare | try ls /dev/nvme* and let me know the output |
| 21:27.28 | cws | Urk: The device names listed are implicitly in /dev. |
| 21:27.36 | sney | Urk: lsblk trims /dev from its output, but your device nodes are definitely in /dev. you didn't even look |
| 21:27.50 | Sayona | greycat, yes but how about security? |
| 21:27.51 | rabbitnightmare | yeah looks like it should work now |
| 21:28.09 | Sayona | greycat, I can exploit 1.14 |
| 21:28.12 | greycat | security patches are backported to version 1.14 |
| 21:28.13 | sney | Sayona: debian stable packages are supported with security patches for the whole lifecycle. |
| 21:28.31 | sney | 1.14 in debian is not upstream's vanilla 1.14. feel free to try that exploit. |
| 21:28.53 | cws | Sayona: If you can point to a specific CVE, you can check it against what's been backported to stable's current version. |
| 21:29.09 | Sayona | thanks |
| 21:29.15 | Sayona | what do you use with debian apache? |
| 21:29.50 | Urk | Not sure what I am missing here http://paste.debian.net/1188600/ |
| 21:30.14 | cws | Urk: Have you tried `ls /dev/nvme0n1*`? |
| 21:30.16 | sney | apache2 is considered the "default" due to popcon scores. I typically use nginx, but apache in one or two places where it's better supported by some application |
| 21:30.30 | cws | Urk: Those devices are in /dev. Please read what's being said to you. |
| 21:30.46 | Urk | Yeah, and it comes back with /dev/nvme0n1, but it doesn't show up with lsblk |
| 21:30.46 | Sayona | sney, thanks |
| 21:30.57 | rabbitnightmare | 320 updates wow |
| 21:30.59 | cws | Urk: The asterisk is important. |
| 21:31.21 | rabbitnightmare | switching over to testing and everything seems to work better now thanks for the help |
| 21:31.22 | cws | lsblk does not print the '/dev' path name. It only prints the device name WITHIN /dev. |
| 21:32.07 | Urk | when running ls /dev/nvme0n1 then all nvme0n* shows up |
| 21:32.10 | rabbitnightmare | yes it seems to be working and showing up |
| 21:32.16 | cws | So what's the problem? |
| 21:32.31 | Urk | rabbitnightmare> Wondering how come it doesnt show up with /dev in front of it though? |
| 21:32.40 | rabbitnightmare | it is showing up |
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| 21:32.44 | cws | Because lsblk is programmed to omit it. |
| 21:32.54 | cws | There's no point to printing /dev, as every device it shows is in /dev. |
| 21:32.54 | rabbitnightmare | if you continue to have issues I would add pci=nomsi to my linux bootloader arguments |
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| 21:33.49 | Urk | Earlier someone provided me a script for recreating the missing folder structure, and I can't find it. I don't have the following: /documents, /pictures, /downloads, etc |
| 21:33.54 | rabbitnightmare | my nvme issues were mainly WD ones |
| 21:34.06 | rabbitnightmare | I suggest samsung drives they tend to work the best |
| 21:34.07 | Urk | WD?? |
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| 21:34.17 | rabbitnightmare | kingston drives also have issues within Linux |
| 21:34.29 | cws | If those are the ACTUAL paths, whoever gave you that script should be smacked, and you shouldn't run it. |
| 21:34.29 | Urk | rabbitnightmare> I like Samsung also, but Dell gave me a different brand. |
| 21:34.30 | rabbitnightmare | I think they use a modified WD firmware or the other way around |
| 21:34.50 | rabbitnightmare | ah yeah they tend to use whatever is cheap |
| 21:35.08 | Urk | rabbitnightmare> I don't think I have WD, but some other thing. |
| 21:35.20 | rabbitnightmare | lsblk -o model |
| 21:35.28 | Sayona | If I use unix file or port I get: https://paste.laravel.io/b60d5b12-3dd1-410f-8c5d-b56c00e3b2e1 |
| 21:35.43 | Sayona | if I configure nginx 1.14 all works correctly |
| 21:36.20 | Urk | Micron 2300 NVMe 1024GB |
| 21:36.30 | Sayona | maybe I need to move to apache2 |
| 21:36.43 | rabbitnightmare | Urk thats a kingston brand |
| 21:36.52 | rabbitnightmare | pci=nomsi might resolve it |
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| 21:37.08 | rabbitnightmare | added to your bootloader Linux argument line |
| 21:37.11 | sney | rabbitnightmare: there's no "it" to resolve, urk just wasn't looking in /dev for the node |
| 21:37.19 | rabbitnightmare | ah my bad |
| 21:37.39 | sney | can't fix pebcak with boot arguments |
| 21:37.57 | Urk | sney> I was under the false assumption that lsblk would automatically pull up things in /dev, and display the folder structure so that it reflects /dev/* |
| 21:38.00 | rabbitnightmare | well he typed the command and his output showed the drive as working lol |
| 21:38.33 | rabbitnightmare | Urk this isnt Arch or gentoo, it seems to be ran by sane people:-P |
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| 21:42.13 | Urk | rabbitnighmare> I get an error that fdisk is not found, yet it is installed. I am running it at root. Any idea what i am doing wrong? |
| 21:42.25 | sney | !buster su |
| 21:42.26 | dpkg | In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). See https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes for details. |
| 21:42.36 | RisingCoder | maybe not in ur path |
| 21:42.53 | RisingCoder | you can do which fdisk to find then use the absolute path |
| 21:43.05 | Urk | RisingCode> got it. Found it. |
| 21:44.08 | cws | which doesn't work unless its in your path. |
| 21:44.58 | jelly | Urk, it's possible that lsblk does not look at /dev at all, but /sys/block instead |
| 21:45.20 | Urk | jelly> Thats what seems to be happening. |
| 21:45.39 | Urk | jelly> It does detect my memory stick, and displays it as /dev/sda1 |
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| 21:52.24 | rabbitnightmare | wew KDE 5.21.2 and Kernel 5.10, not .11 but it runs a LOT smoother |
| 21:52.30 | rabbitnightmare | ty for all yalls help |
| 21:53.03 | sney | np |
| 21:53.22 | rabbitnightmare | thats what I get for building such a new system :-P |
| 21:53.48 | sney | debian stable is good at a lot of things, supporting cutting edge hardware is not one of them |
| 21:53.56 | rabbitnightmare | hey it happens |
| 21:54.05 | sney | welcome to testing. if you have any more questions, join us in #debian-next on OFTC (note, right now you are on freenode) |
| 21:54.42 | kristijonas | Hello, I still get confused with dpkg database vs apt database, also /var/lib/dpkg/available vs that of status. Was available mainly used by the now-deprecated dselect and is not that useful anymore? |
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| 21:55.32 | Urk | Any idea why my I get "command not found" with smartctl http://paste.debian.net/1188605/ ??? |
| 21:55.49 | sney | !sbin |
| 21:55.49 | dpkg | Some binaries, particularly system utilities are installed to /sbin or /usr/sbin rather than /bin or /usr/bin. The former directories are not in a standard user's PATH. Try calling them directly, e.g. /sbin/ifconfig, or running them as root. See also <buster su>. |
| 21:56.12 | sney | basically, because of the same PATH thing with fdisk, that we already told you about. |
| 21:57.50 | Urk | sney: How would you correct the path? I ran smartctrl /dev/nvme0n1p1 so not sure what is going on here. |
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| 21:58.04 | rabbitnightmare | almost 400fps in Albion Online now where before I was maybe getting 10 |
| 21:58.20 | sney | Urk: you become root with a sane method. either by using sudo, or with 'su -'. just typing su does not change your PATH from the non-root user one. |
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| 22:07.05 | greycat | !buster su |
| 22:07.05 | dpkg | In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). See https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes for details. |
| 22:07.37 | greycat | The behavior of buster's su is STUPID and can be fixed. The whole thing could have been avoided in the first place but the Debian developers do not care. |
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| 22:15.43 | oxek | greycat: what's the proper behavior then? I am curious to learn, especially if you have any resources I should look at. |
| 22:16.24 | sney | I like the suggestion in #907194 to move the 'root password' installer dialog to expert mode only, so the majority of users get sudo installed and configured by default (which many don't atm because they don't read the whole prompt). that would solve this issue for the users who don't understand how PATH works in linux, and the ones who know what they're looking at can fix it easily in multiple ways |
| 22:16.25 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/907194 in util-linux (open, wontfix, upstream): «su: yields breakage without "-", not properly documented»; severity: important; opened: 2018-08-24; last modified: 2019-07-28. |
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| 22:18.24 | jmcnaught | Booting into recovery mode from GRUB only works if a root password is set. |
| 22:19.27 | sney | that should probably be addressed separately, since having no root password *is* a common configuration. |
| 22:19.40 | oxek | jmcnaught: are you sure about that? For me, it just drops me into a root shell without having to put any passwords in. |
| 22:20.11 | sney | oxek: that sounds like you passed init=/bin/sh, which is different from the standard recovery mode |
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| 22:20.30 | oxek | sney: oh, is that not what recovery mode is? |
| 22:20.38 | oxek | init=/bin/sh is what I always did |
| 22:21.06 | oxek | or if using the recovery from the debian netinst cd, it also does not need any passwords (unless encryption is involved) |
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| 22:22.10 | sney | in this case we're talking about the recovery mode on an installed system, available from the grub menu. it does not change init to /bin/sh, it just boots with systemd at the single-user runlevel. |
| 22:22.21 | deeplogic | if i get a $1400 stimulus deposit i'm gonna buy an epiphone '59 les paul, and i want to put a nice debian decal on the body, who sells very cool, preferably transparent debian decals ? |
| 22:22.22 | jmcnaught | oxek: at the GRUB menu at boot under "advanced optionsâ¦" there is a recovery mode that boots into rescue.target |
| 22:23.33 | jmcnaught | deeplogic: https://www.debian.org/events/merchandise |
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| 22:24.37 | deeplogic | i used to chat with the fellow that designed the debian swirl logo on #linpeople for years |
| 22:24.42 | deeplogic | ah, klowner |
| 22:24.45 | deeplogic | yes |
| 22:25.30 | deeplogic | jmcnaught: tnanx ! |
| 22:25.40 | oxek | deeplogic: you too might be interested in knowing how debian is made https://0x0.st/-P0c.mp4 |
| 22:26.06 | oxek | there really should be a webpage tracking sightings of debian in the wild |
| 22:26.15 | oxek | "a wild debian appears" |
| 22:26.25 | deeplogic | oxek: is that url workplace safe ? i don't go to safe urls |
| 22:26.25 | greycat | sney: there is no "proper behavior", because su is not a standard command. It has varying behavior across OSes. But the su in Debian always changed PATH when becoming root, until buster. The sudden change is lamentable. |
| 22:26.32 | oxek | deeplogic: yes, safe |
| 22:26.39 | deeplogic | too bad |
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| 22:26.54 | greycat | sney: there were *many* threads discussing it on debian-user. All the time, Constantly. Nobody cared enough to fucking change it. |
| 22:27.05 | sney | greycat: congratulations, I didn't say anything about proper behavior |
| 22:27.12 | sney | greycat: go highlight someone else |
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| 22:27.14 | greycat | All I can do is continue to point people to the solution on the wiki. It's one line to fix it. |
| 22:27.41 | greycat | sney: oh, sorry, it was oxek who asked. |
| 22:27.48 | oxek | I still saw it |
| 22:28.06 | greycat | two people with 4-character nicks back to back... |
| 22:28.07 | oxek | and I'm now trying to figure out if debian's behavior of su is different from every other distro |
| 22:28.48 | oxek | and if other distros are going to follow |
| 22:29.06 | greycat | oxek: unfortunately, Red Hat used the buster version for many, many years, so it's a thing that many people got used to. Many of them decided spontaneously that "su -" was the correct fix, and have been advertising it as such. I disagree, and have been promoting /etc/default/su instead. |
| 22:29.59 | greycat | as someone who had both Red Hat and Debian systems at work, I was always flabbergasted by how stupid Red Hat's su was whenever I had to admin one of them.... |
| 22:30.18 | oxek | a somewhat offtopic question - what is the best way of reading mailing lists? The online interface is problematic for me, because I get confused about "Next by Thread/Date/...", and sometimes it just completely jumps to a different thread instead of next message |
| 22:30.35 | oxek | is there some special app that parses it for me? |
| 22:30.36 | greycat | there is no "best". do what works for you. |
| 22:31.13 | oxek | you're right, shouldn't have asked for best. Instead, what do people use when they don't use the webpage interface, and don't have those emails saved locally? |
| 22:31.28 | oxek | I feel like I'm missing something obvious. |
| 22:31.46 | greycat | I subscribe to debian-user and read it in mutt as it arrives. |
| 22:32.03 | oxek | there seems to be a lot of information in the mailing lists, but it's difficult for me to access, so I feel like I'm doing something wrong. |
| 22:32.25 | oxek | yes, would make sense if I was already subscribed, and had all those emails downloaded, but I can't do that for mails that predate my subscription |
| 22:33.27 | greycat | I only rarely read older posts, and then I just use whatever web archive google coughs up. |
| 22:33.50 | deeplogic | hmmm, klowner.org is gone but there is still a https://www.deviantart.com/klowner |
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| 22:37.23 | deeplogic | the broken pieces of my life, including debian misfailures are all over archive.org, the famous wayback machine, i'm old enough to have watched the original wayback cartoons on tv |
| 22:39.44 | deeplogic | peabody's improbable history of debian |
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| 22:49.03 | rabbitnightmare | deeplogic please take it to -offtopic |
| 22:50.11 | leibniz | No the JavaScript people are dumb as expected |
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| 22:56.32 | leibniz | Nevermind |
| 22:56.43 | leibniz | Iâm the dumb one the JavaScript guys are cool |
| 22:56.47 | leibniz | Lol |
| 22:57.00 | leibniz | Debian rules! |
| 22:57.13 | deeplogic | oh, klowner.com is the site of the designer of the debian swirl logo |
| 22:57.13 | CyberManifest | s/rules/drules |
| 22:57.27 | CyberManifest | s/drules/drools |
| 22:58.08 | CyberManifest | deeplogic ironic klowner sounds like clown-er |
| 22:58.49 | deeplogic | CyberManifest: i think so also, i suppose it;s supposed to be cute |
| 22:59.28 | CyberManifest | or kl-owner |
| 23:03.02 | deeplogic | no, the guys real name is involved with it i think |
| 23:03.02 | deeplogic | klo-ner |
| 23:03.03 | deeplogic | klow-ner |
| 23:03.03 | deeplogic | heh |
| 23:03.04 | jmcnaught | https://www.debian.org/logos/ says that the Debian logos were created by Raul Silva. |
| 23:03.04 | CyberManifest | k-low-ner |
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| 23:03.04 | CyberManifest | jmcnaught that seems more fitting |
| 23:03.04 | deeplogic | jmcnaught: the swirl, i was there at the time, so i disagree |
| 23:03.47 | deeplogic | the original artwork was by klowner, the actual distributed images can be anything |
| 23:04.57 | CyberManifest | deeplogic where yo there for the diamond too ? |
| 23:05.04 | CyberManifest | you* |
| 23:05.22 | deeplogic | i don't know what the diamond is |
| 23:05.50 | CyberManifest | deeplogic look at the i in debian |
| 23:06.15 | Urk | Well I am trying to configure grub so that I can add pci=nomsi to kernel boot arguments but don't know which version of grub that I have. I tried running the grub-install -V command that was in the man, but get "command not found". I see grub in the boot directory, but can't see much more. |
| 23:06.58 | jmcnaught | Urk: why are you adding pci=nomsi to kernel boot arguments? |
| 23:07.55 | deeplogic | hmmmm. "The original was 640x320, and this one, is well, a bit large", maybe klowner copied Rauls' art, could be, no money involved, only bragging rights |
| 23:08.21 | Urk | rabbitnightmare: Thought it might help lsblk display a more exact location in /dev |
| 23:08.44 | Urk | jmcnaught: What exactly does pci-nomsi due to the kernel boot? |
| 23:09.07 | zykotick9 | Urk: <sidenote> using "su -" vs "su" might produce different results for grub-install |
| 23:09.20 | jmcnaught | Urk: it will not change the behaviour of lsblk, which is universal. lsblk does not show /dev/ when it lists drives and partitions |
| 23:09.48 | CyberManifest | Urk while I'd direct you to https://wiki.debian.org/Grub it seems lacking in information so... https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/GRUB |
| 23:09.50 | jmcnaught | Urk: look it up: https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v5.10/admin-guide/kernel-parameters.html but you probably should not use it without understanding it. It's not going to change lsblk. |
| 23:11.35 | rabbitnightmare | he has been told how to fix the issue several times, I am beginning to think he is a troll |
| 23:11.44 | rabbitnightmare | pci=nomsi in grub under kernel boot args |
| 23:11.46 | rabbitnightmare | easy fix |
| 23:11.53 | jmcnaught | fix for what though? |
| 23:12.15 | jmcnaught | lsblk not including /dev/ for every drive and partition that it lists? That was the issue. |
| 23:13.12 | rabbitnightmare | kingston uses a modified WD nvme rom and both drives are known to be problematic |
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| 23:15.17 | rabbitnightmare | Windows uses software to run the drives, they are not a hardware driven drive, cheap cut corner |
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| 23:15.50 | rabbitnightmare | bob garbage that barely passes qoc |
| 23:16.14 | rabbitnightmare | it is an issue that persists across Linux at the moment |
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| 23:17.10 | rabbitnightmare | kernel 5.12 will have fixes for the broken NVME drives |
| 23:17.21 | rabbitnightmare | https://lore.kernel.org/linux-block/YEJYFTnbec9jteOc@infradead.org/ |
| 23:17.40 | sney | but the only problem was urk not seeing the device node, which was caused by not looking in /dev and being confused by lsblk output. if there's a real problem other than that, it hasn't been mentioned. just miscommunication. |
| 23:17.56 | rabbitnightmare | it is currently a beta kernel so please just use the boot arg for now |
| 23:18.25 | rabbitnightmare | right IF there is an issue with your machine |
| 23:18.35 | rabbitnightmare | other than that ignore it and move on lol |
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| 23:21.32 | deeplogic | rabbitnightmare: do you know if there is a channel that would dicuss the rtw88 wifi driver ? |
| 23:22.07 | sney | deeplogic: the channel for support including drivers is this one. usually for realtek all you need is the firmware-realtek package though |
| 23:23.35 | deeplogic | sney: nah, the bullseye driver is way broken on my hp laptop, pci errors, solid lockup, i had to get a usb dongle for wifi |
| 23:23.59 | sney | ah cool, thanks realtek |
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| 23:24.25 | sney | bullseye support is in #debian-next on OFTC (note, right now you are on freenode) for future reference. if you ask questions in here we will generally assume you are using stable. |
| 23:25.03 | deeplogic | sney: oh my, thanks for the heds up |
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| 23:27.49 | rabbitnightmare | I try to buy hardware from vendors who support open standards |
| 23:28.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 996] by debhelper |
| 23:28.19 | rabbitnightmare | gpl drivers etc |
| 23:29.33 | rabbitnightmare | I learned that lesson about a decade ago |
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| 23:31.08 | sney | it's a good practice for linux compatibility. unfortunately this whole firmware situation has gotten pretty out of control. I'm in the midst of a project (tba) that may improve things on the user end, but it's really on the hardware vendors for being too paranoid to open up their HAL stuff etc |
| 23:31.53 | sney | stuck between "when in doubt, buy intel" and "but intel requires firmware for wifi and any gpu made after 2015" :( |
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| 23:32.28 | deeplogic | sney: are the laptops more of a concern compard to desktops ? |
| 23:33.10 | deeplogic | i'm pure latop in my implementations |
| 23:33.47 | sney | laptops can be more tricky, *mainly* because the OEMs reuse model numbers while changing components so it's hard to research accurately before getting the machine |
| 23:34.01 | sney | also the whole nvidia optimus situation |
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| 23:35.55 | deeplogic | yes, and even older hardware that i might consider as being covered, actually becomes abandoned.. |
| 23:36.31 | deeplogic | laptops are like cell phones, just buy a new one and pray' |
| 23:37.00 | deeplogic | or even prey |
| 23:37.03 | deeplogic | hehe |
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| 23:43.05 | sney | I just buy old thinkpads. hasn't done me wrong yet! |
| 23:45.01 | abff | old latitudes are pretty good too |
| 23:46.45 | sney | yeah, any business-grade laptop is usually a safe bet. I had a hp elitebook for a while that I gave to a friend years ago when he needed something for school, and it's outlived 3 of his wife's best buy consumer laptops |
| 23:46.55 | sney | pretty terribly slow by today's standards but still refuses to die |
| 23:46.59 | sney | /ot |
| 23:49.52 | abff | who needs speed when you have a terminal |
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| 23:59.21 | [O-O] | debian gives life to old pcs/laptops |
| 23:59.28 | [O-O] | any distro tbh |
