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| 00:02.21 | JordiGH | cp: cannot create regular file '/dev/sda': No medium found |
| 00:02.23 | JordiGH | Eh? |
| 00:02.25 | JordiGH | It's right there! |
| 00:02.29 | JordiGH | What do you mean no medium? |
| 00:03.08 | sney | check dmesg for a disconnect, or just re-seat the usb |
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| 00:03.21 | JordiGH | Hm, weird, looks like unmounting it was the problem? |
| 00:04.37 | sney | unmounting from the gui can have weird results. |
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| 00:19.45 | alex11 | how can i fix links i click trying to open in thunderbird instead of firefox-esr? my web browser is set to firefox-esr in xfce's preferred applications, so that's not it |
| 00:20.14 | oxek | alex11: links you click in which application? |
| 00:20.32 | alex11 | hexchat i guess |
| 00:20.39 | alex11 | haven't tried other things |
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| 00:23.29 | alex11 | i'm sure a reboot will fix it anyway but i'm busy lol |
| 00:24.36 | alex11 | you know what i'm just going to reboot |
| 00:24.38 | alex11 | see if that works |
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| 00:30.04 | alex11 | ...huh. it doesn't |
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| 00:30.33 | mangix | hello. is there a way to request a fix for libstdc++? |
| 00:30.47 | mangix | for debian buster |
| 00:30.59 | alex11 | now it does, i fixed it somehow |
| 00:31.24 | alex11 | combination of setting it as the default browser and trying different things in preferred applications |
| 00:31.41 | cws | mangix: Fix of what form? |
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| 00:38.33 | mangix | cws: Debian 10 Buster has a bug with libstdc++ 8.3 that was fixed in 8.4. std::filesystem does not support files above 2GB in size |
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| 00:38.38 | mangix | on 32-bit systems |
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| 00:39.38 | mangix | I can't use LLVM's libcxx as all Debian C++ libraries link against libstdc++ |
| 00:41.20 | oxek | !reportbug |
| 00:41.20 | dpkg | reportbug is used to submit bugs to the Debian <BTS>. Install reportbug, then run reportbug. See http://www.debian.org/Bugs/ http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch05s04#problem-report for some general information about using reportbug and/or for <debian-installer> bug reporting. Also ask me about <report-bugs>. http://wiki.debian.org/reportbug http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting, or <reportbug MTA> |
| 00:41.22 | c_nix | static linking is your ally |
| 00:41.43 | oxek | mangix: that's how you report bugs and ask for fixes |
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| 00:42.54 | mangix | huh. there's a reportbug utility. didn't know that |
| 00:43.14 | mangix | c_nix: not sure what you mean |
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| 00:52.34 | mangix | alright, bug reported |
| 00:52.38 | mangix | let's see what happens |
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| 03:46.59 | isapgswell | hi |
| 03:51.05 | abff | o/ |
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| 07:21.50 | line17 | how to download a ftp website on linux? |
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| 07:22.05 | line17 | i mean completely or partial |
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| 07:44.15 | [O-O] | line17: you can use an ftp client |
| 07:44.47 | [O-O] | ftp command or filezilla if u prefer ui |
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| 07:45.54 | line17 | let me try |
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| 07:53.27 | wsky | mc is good for that |
| 07:53.41 | wsky | or perhaps eget with -rxc --no-parent |
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| 08:15.13 | oo_miguel | <PROTECTED> |
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| 08:51.34 | hegemoOn | morning |
| 08:53.01 | shtrb | morning |
| 08:53.29 | hegemoOn | lol, enabled timer, but forgot to start them |
| 08:53.30 | hegemoOn | ... |
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| 09:43.10 | line17 | yes |
| 09:43.15 | line17 | i have a situation |
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| 09:43.32 | line17 | i am trying to download a website include folder and files |
| 09:43.50 | line17 | i am using this reference |
| 09:43.51 | line17 | https://stackoverflow.com/a/26269730 |
| 09:44.20 | line17 | my connection disconnects and now i want to start go on but i don't want to download off them again |
| 09:44.44 | line17 | what is the proper command for this? |
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| 09:47.07 | ZenWalker | hi, packages.debian.org is down ? |
| 09:47.12 | jelly | line17, read about -nc / --no-clobber in wget manual; if you have large partial downloads in place, see also -c |
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| 09:47.47 | ZenWalker | also www.debian.org doesn't work here |
| 09:47.56 | line17 | are they hacked? |
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| 09:48.14 | ZenWalker | line17: can you confirm? it works for you? |
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| 09:48.58 | line17 | not working |
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| 09:49.49 | jmd | How do I change my keyboard mapping? |
| 09:50.06 | jelly | !keymap |
| 09:50.07 | dpkg | Run "dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration" to change both your default console and X keymap; the setxkbmap utility can be used to adjust keymap settings during X operation. For setting up X keymaps, see xkeycaps, xev and ask me about <multimedia keys>. |
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| 09:51.17 | jelly | jmd, a desktop enviroment like Gnome, KDE, Xfce might have its own settings stored on per-user basis somewhere else |
| 09:51.42 | tete_ | hi, i use debian 11 with xfce. not sure if this is the correct channel or if i should go to #xfce. at the moment i have a panel which has buttons for each open application, but they are so small and stacked (always 2 in a cell). if possible i would have all side by side |
| 09:52.03 | tete_ | https://imgur.com/dQaP2EX.png |
| 09:52.34 | ratrace | what's the !keyboard factoid alternative for wayland? |
| 09:52.39 | jelly | ZenWalker, https://packages.debian.org and https://packages.debian.org/libc6 work for me |
| 09:52.40 | ratrace | eh !keymap |
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| 09:54.35 | jelly | tete_, that xfce task bar applet has some settings, try to right click next to the buttons and see if there's some context menu |
| 09:54.57 | ZenWalker | jelly: it works using tor here, it doesn't work from spain |
| 09:56.33 | jelly | ZenWalker, possibly your provider to blame. My outgoing IP address is in Germany fwiw. |
| 09:56.35 | ZenWalker | jelly: here tor is using usa server |
| 09:56.35 | tete_ | jelly, thanks i already checked the configuration for that but i was unable to find anything that relates to the size of the buttons |
| 09:56.49 | ZenWalker | line17: which is your country? |
| 09:57.01 | line17 | russian |
| 09:57.03 | line17 | yours? |
| 09:57.07 | ZenWalker | spain |
| 09:57.10 | line17 | good |
| 09:57.25 | line17 | i came to spain twice |
| 09:57.27 | line17 | in 2009 |
| 09:57.31 | line17 | and in 2011 |
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| 09:57.38 | tete_ | https://imgur.com/lNjVj7Q.png its german, but thats all that menu provides for configuration |
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| 09:58.34 | jmd | Yeah. I need to set up a machine for a Portuguese lady. I've never done that before... |
| 09:59.28 | ZenWalker | line17: I am using opennic for dns, and you? |
| 09:59.45 | line17 | zenwalker: i am using google dns |
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| 10:00.34 | Ede|Popede | tete_, Panel Preferences, Number of Rows |
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| 10:03.25 | ZenWalker | line17: now it works, I changed the dns servers |
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| 10:05.54 | tete_ | Ede|Popede, is set to 1 |
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| 10:06.43 | Ede|Popede | oh that's odd. i moved it to 3 and had 3 rows instantly. maybe it happens when there's too much space, lemme check. |
| 10:07.02 | tete_ | Ede|Popede, when i set it to 2 the panel gets gigantic ;) |
| 10:07.21 | jelly | right, resizing the space for that particular applet inside that particular panel might do things |
| 10:07.40 | jelly | hasn't used xfce in a while |
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| 10:12.13 | Ede|Popede | tete_: should get smaller with the size setting in the same dialog. 24px in 2 rows is neat on my 21â 1080p display |
| 10:13.13 | tete_ | ok that was it... i set the size too high, wow thats wierd. i had it at 54 then they were side by side, now with 43 its as i expected |
| 10:13.27 | tete_ | thanks! |
| 10:13.49 | tete_ | i have 27" wqhd |
| 10:14.13 | jelly | I usually had a 128px panel on the right edge, and then tasks would get oriented either vertically or across the panel, which was nice |
| 10:14.41 | Ede|Popede | nice size. and better for 2-sided PDF i think, even 1080 isn't optimal if borders can't properly be removed. |
| 10:14.46 | jmd | Does anyone know how Qt works on debian? I have installed qt5-devtools. It seems to work, but I have to give an explicit path to start anything. |
| 10:14.59 | jelly | wasting vertical space on panels on 16:9 monitors is just nonsense |
| 10:15.52 | jmd | For example I can start linguist with /usr/lib/qt5/bin/linguist - that works fine. But if I just type "linguist" I get an error message "could not find a Qt installation of ''" |
| 10:16.44 | Ede|Popede | jmd, you type this in the shell or in some qt dev thing? |
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| 10:17.15 | jmd | In the shell. |
| 10:17.20 | jmd | (of course) |
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| 10:17.45 | cyberjunkie | Just curious, I installed Debian in a minimal way, apt doesn't download/install the dependencies automatically |
| 10:17.51 | Ede|Popede | ah, linguist is a link to qtchooser. didn't even know i have it installed. |
| 10:17.59 | cyberjunkie | Is this normal, or am i doing something wrong? |
| 10:18.18 | TheBigK02 | can u share ur console output ? |
| 10:18.39 | cyberjunkie | Me? |
| 10:18.44 | Ede|Popede | jmd, did you play with its options? |
| 10:18.46 | TheBigK02 | cyberjunkie: yes |
| 10:19.23 | cyberjunkie | TheBigK02: It's a different system, and it's meant to be a minimal headless server. I'll type out a gist of it. This hapens when install openssh-client |
| 10:19.54 | cyberjunkie | Some apckages could not be installed, this may mean you have requested an impossible situation, or if you are using the unstable distribution that requires some packages have not been creatd or moved out of incoming |
| 10:19.57 | cyberjunkie | is it my repo list? |
| 10:20.04 | Ede|Popede | jmd, what's your QTTOOLDIR ? |
| 10:20.04 | jmd | Ahh I have to pass -qt=5 |
| 10:20.10 | TheBigK02 | cyberjunkie: you cant ssh to it? |
| 10:20.17 | jmd | Is there a way to make it default to that? |
| 10:20.24 | cyberjunkie | i have to install open ssh server which i can't :P |
| 10:20.39 | jmd | Ede|Popede: Unset |
| 10:20.50 | ratrace | cyberjunkie: which debian did you install, what ISO filename did you use? |
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| 10:20.53 | cyberjunkie | so it says, depends on libedit2, not it is not installable, same with libgssapi |
| 10:20.56 | cyberjunkie | 1 |
| 10:20.56 | Ede|Popede | QT_SELECT looks good |
| 10:21.09 | TheBigK02 | cyberjunkie: it could be the sources.list. could be some broken dependencies. hard to tell when u cant share details |
| 10:21.36 | cyberjunkie | debian-10.8.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso.torrent |
| 10:21.48 | cyberjunkie | but i used the non-graphical install |
| 10:21.56 | cyberjunkie | TheBigK02: Ok |
| 10:22.06 | ratrace | cyberjunkie: and what options in the Software section did you select? If you didn't select openssh server, you won't have it, no |
| 10:22.41 | ratrace | also, like TheBigK02 suggested, check the sources.list, make sure they're all set: |
| 10:22.43 | cyberjunkie | but would it stop apt from installing dependencies for any package |
| 10:22.44 | ratrace | !buster sources.list |
| 10:22.45 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main", and optionally "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <buster/updates> <buster-updates> and "man sources.list". |
| 10:22.56 | cyberjunkie | ok |
| 10:23.10 | ratrace | cyberjunkie: missing sources.list entries would, yes. make sure you have these, run `apt update` and try installing what you need |
| 10:23.22 | cyberjunkie | I deleted it, doing theupdate now |
| 10:23.33 | cyberjunkie | Worst case, I can reinstall it and let openssh install |
| 10:23.51 | ratrace | if you have console access, probably no need to reinstall |
| 10:23.55 | cyberjunkie | But it's not the standard is whatI wanted to know |
| 10:23.58 | TheBigK02 | cyberjunkie: i dont think thats necessary when the installer ran through properly |
| 10:24.15 | ratrace | cyberjunkie: "standard" is what you choose on the software selection screen |
| 10:24.35 | ratrace | I don't recall which of those is selected automatically, I don't think openssh-server is ,but a desktop would be. could be wrong. |
| 10:24.45 | line17 | zenwalker: good |
| 10:25.22 | cyberjunkie | Ok, I remmeber unselecting the X/XFCE/desktop env, and i can't remember if i unchecked something else |
| 10:26.24 | cyberjunkie | I think it asked me something about the repos during the install, but I assumed it wanted to download a bunch of things, so I may have skipped it |
| 10:26.32 | cyberjunkie | Like, where it offers me a list of nearby repos |
| 10:27.07 | TheBigK02 | that doesnt install anything. that just includes a proper sources.list if i remember correctly. then sources.list would be a good starting point and see if the update works fine |
| 10:27.31 | cyberjunkie | apt-get update leaves a blank sources.list now |
| 10:27.37 | TheBigK02 | that just does a proper apt-cache ... nothing that bloats ur debian out |
| 10:27.57 | TheBigK02 | u have no mirrors in /etc/apt/sources.list ? |
| 10:28.29 | cyberjunkie | yep, manually entered a sources.list and it's installing fine :P |
| 10:28.31 | cyberjunkie | Thank you |
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| 10:28.47 | cyberjunkie | deb and deb-src |
| 10:28.48 | TheBigK02 | cyberjunkie: that was easy. good to hear u got it to work |
| 10:29.01 | TheBigK02 | deb-src not needed unless u want to recompile packages |
| 10:29.13 | cyberjunkie | ok, and there's something about security.debian.org |
| 10:29.17 | cyberjunkie | Is that needed |
| 10:29.29 | cyberjunkie | first things first, openssh-server |
| 10:29.31 | TheBigK02 | oh yes, thats probably the most important one :) |
| 10:31.28 | cyberjunkie | Ah good, it's been 2 weeks since I've been messing with Proxmos (ubuntu server, freebsd, nixos) and finally, i've made up my mind, headless debian for this used thinkcentre nano that was at some corporate setup |
| 10:32.22 | TheBigK02 | debian is like a swiss army knife. u can do a lot of stuff with it :) |
| 10:32.36 | cyberjunkie | Nice, am an arch user on the laptop, fedora on the desktop |
| 10:33.28 | TheBigK02 | i never gave arch a go... but it reminds me a lot of gentoo in a way... and it was annoying to maintain in the long run |
| 10:33.58 | cyberjunkie | lmao |
| 10:34.18 | cyberjunkie | Ah. My first distro was Slackware in 96. Ended up losing my Windows partition. |
| 10:34.40 | cyberjunkie | for some weird reason, I thought Debian still demanded you install every dependency manually |
| 10:36.29 | TheBigK02 | i started with suse 7.2 if i remember correctly. never got internet to work and then ditched it... and came back to linux with debian 3.1... since then it was my server distribution of choice... on desktop i switched to ubuntu... and i feel a little ashamed for it... :p |
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| 10:41.09 | cyberjunkie | Nice |
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| 11:06.00 | ratrace | ,v sway |
| 11:06.01 | judd | Package: sway on amd64 -- bullseye: 1.5-7; sid: 1.5.1-2 |
| 11:08.58 | queip | there was a recent breakthrough in breaking RSA |
| 11:09.41 | queip | could debian move to EC signatures, and/or lamport (which is pretty much guaranteed unbreakable and btw QC resistant) in signing packages, releases, install images? |
| 11:10.20 | ratrace | queip: has that paper been published and peer reviewed? |
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| 11:10.45 | mrjpaxton[m] | You mean an actual RSA vulnerability? |
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| 11:11.10 | ratrace | there's rumours that factorization has been vastly improved and sped up which would've killed RSA |
| 11:11.11 | queip | ratrace: https://portswigger.net/daily-swig/prime-factor-mathematical-foundations-of-rsa-cryptography-broken-claims-cryptographer |
| 11:11.34 | ratrace | "claims cryptographer" ... that's the source? c'mon |
| 11:11.40 | queip | paper is https://eprint.iacr.org/2021/232.pdf |
| 11:11.44 | ratrace | publish, peer review, and lesse what Schneier has to say. |
| 11:11.46 | queip | ratrace: source to it is in the article |
| 11:12.22 | ratrace | yes, "work in progress". so not final publication, no peer review. |
| 11:12.52 | queip | ratrace: it takes a while to peer review. author is Schnorr, as in "schnorr signature" so he probably knows what he talks about |
| 11:13.09 | ratrace | I'm not saying the paper is not true. I'm just saying I'm delaying hitting the panic button until those conditions have been satisfied and/or Schneier lit the Beacons of Gondor. |
| 11:13.14 | mrjpaxton[m] | I can't deny that ECDSA is excellent, too. But RSA has been foolproof for a long time. |
| 11:13.21 | queip | debian is not exactly known for rolling up massive updates too fast so better start thinking about it already |
| 11:13.28 | queip | not when we confirm that rsa is borken |
| 11:13.55 | queip | mrjpaxton[m]: yeah that paper desribes totally new mathematical weakness |
| 11:13.59 | ratrace | worst case, we manually bump all RSA to EC where applicable, defaults are anyway just defaults |
| 11:14.11 | ratrace | that said.... which EC :) that's _another_ field of contention |
| 11:14.27 | queip | for example, Lamport is very easy to implement, and also is basically guaranteed to not have unknown mathematical problems - and as bonus is QC resistant |
| 11:14.46 | queip | we might add additional lamport signs right now (while leaving GPG/RSA as is) |
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| 11:15.58 | ratrace | https://safecurves.cr.yp.to/ |
| 11:16.21 | queip | for start just the images, and later all packages. it would be optional thing since lamport signs are really heavy |
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| 11:16.49 | queip | ratrace: what do you mean? |
| 11:17.00 | ratrace | well, read this last link |
| 11:17.05 | ratrace | not all ECs are creataed equally. |
| 11:17.14 | queip | yeah I know. secp256k1 |
| 11:17.23 | ratrace | NIST curves have traditionally been something to eye suspiciously. |
| 11:17.38 | queip | this one literally secures billions USD that is one break away from getting it, so I would trust that on |
| 11:17.44 | mrjpaxton[m] | Also, if you're asking about quantum computing resistant stuff, then we would need to hire a post-Doctorate CS professor AND a post-Doctorate cryptanalyst working for the government, who actually have access to a QCs in order to really know if the encryption "really is resistant". And even then, who really knows? |
| 11:17.53 | queip | ceertainly do not use secp256r1 which is probably backdoored |
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| 11:18.28 | mrjpaxton[m] | I don't wanna hear them conspiracy theories tho. |
| 11:18.35 | ratrace | mrjpaxton[m]: they aren't |
| 11:18.46 | mrjpaxton[m] | But some of us will believe anything. :p |
| 11:19.37 | ratrace | just like "underhanded C" competition, complex EC math, especially when there's "magic numbers involved", could hide backdoors. nothing "conspiracy theoretical" about it, it's mathematical facts. |
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| 11:19.58 | ratrace | they could be intentional, or purely accidental |
| 11:20.33 | TomyWork | ratrace, any conspiracy theory is possible. you outlined how it's possible, not how it's plausible |
| 11:20.41 | queip | mrjpaxton[m]: secp256r1 and that double RGB something are confirmed backdoored, it's well known since long time |
| 11:20.46 | ratrace | it's not in vain that everyone who understands cryptography will warn that one should never, ever, invent their own crypto. the reason is very simple. a LOT of possibilities to create weak crypto unintentionally. |
| 11:20.58 | TomyWork | ok i take that back, some conspiracy theories aren't even possible |
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| 11:22.03 | mrjpaxton[m] | Oh yeah, I always trust in math, just for the record. At least the math I can already understand. |
| 11:22.23 | queip | mrjpaxton[m]: one can assess algos to be vulnerable to QC, or likely resistant, without need to access real QC - it's well known what algorithms QC can process. for long time, the question is only do we/gov yet have computers that can do that theoretical operations |
| 11:22.24 | mrjpaxton[m] | I wish I finished Calc 3 and Linear Algebra, at least. |
| 11:22.29 | ratrace | "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." -- Sherlock Holmes or A. C. Doyle... |
| 11:23.12 | queip | ratrace: secp256k1, and ed25519, are nothing-up-my-sleeve |
| 11:23.36 | ratrace | TomyWork: technically, _any_ theory is possible. sufficiently advanced technology is indistuingishable from magick. A. C. Clarke |
| 11:23.41 | queip | and lamport has no constants in it at all. (underlying sha/keccak will have but not in such way, just like S-boxes constants) |
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| 11:23.57 | ratrace | queip: mmmh-hmm. |
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| 11:26.30 | TomyWork | ratrace, i would very much for you to show plausibility though. I'm interested in the subject as well. |
| 11:27.01 | ratrace | of what? |
| 11:27.10 | TomyWork | of secp256r1 being backdoored |
| 11:27.23 | ratrace | I never said it was |
| 11:27.28 | TomyWork | ah |
| 11:27.47 | ratrace | all I said was that some nist curves have been eyed suspiciously (by crypto researchers) |
| 11:27.57 | TomyWork | true |
| 11:28.14 | ratrace | the link I posted has a table and some hints as to why. |
| 11:28.58 | TomyWork | there's no r1 on that page, just k1 |
| 11:29.36 | ratrace | btw, that side is maintained by a well known researcher, D J Bernstein. |
| 11:29.39 | ratrace | *site |
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| 11:30.44 | TomyWork | I know him and I would trust what he says about the subject |
| 11:31.17 | ratrace | I'd appeal to his authority too. And Schneier's. |
| 11:32.13 | mrjpaxton[m] | I just like that there's one called Bouncy Castle. |
| 11:32.37 | mrjpaxton[m] | The person who came up with that name sounds like he had a fun childhood. |
| 11:33.52 | TomyWork | ratrace, but as i said that page doesnt say anything about sec256r1 |
| 11:34.26 | TomyWork | mrjpaxton[m], yeah it's some java crypto library. not 100% sure if it's good |
| 11:34.31 | TomyWork | widely used, certainly |
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| 11:37.22 | ratrace | regardless of the RSA being broken, openssh have been warning about not using default RSA (SHA1) keys for some time now, for example |
| 11:37.56 | mrjpaxton[m] | SHA1 is really only good for checksums now, if even that. |
| 11:38.04 | ratrace | ed25519 ftw I suppose. |
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| 11:41.05 | queip | TomyWork: -r1 is a magical "it's totally random, trust me" number that is at foundation of it. so uhhh yeah |
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| 11:42.24 | TomyWork | i know that's the allegiation |
| 11:43.27 | queip | this particular RSA break 2021/Shnorr, might turn out to not be practical. Still I would propose to add secondary signatures from a "distant" crypto system like ec, and also for one that is extremely different and btw is QC resistant |
| 11:43.39 | queip | if it turns out we have still much more time for it, then the better |
| 11:44.05 | TomyWork | and i guess based on the lack of transparency, it is sensible to reject that cipher, but you used the word "confirmed" earlier, which implies something stronger |
| 11:44.38 | queip | TomyWork: ok better call it "is widely believed to be backdoored" |
| 11:44.50 | TomyWork | :thumbsup: |
| 11:47.27 | TomyWork | how does that actually work, btw? they generate a shitload of ciphers randomly, subject them to (supposedly automatic) tests, then subject the best candidates to more tests, until they're confident they have a good cipher? |
| 11:48.00 | ratrace | by "ciphers" you mean curve parameters? |
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| 11:48.09 | TomyWork | i suppose |
| 11:48.53 | ratrace | well there's a range of values which makes sense due to P!=NP, how exactly they test them... not sure |
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| 12:03.34 | GuiltySpark343 | Anyone managed to make a .deb package out of the Oracle JDK with make-jpkg? The 15 version is giving me an error |
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| 12:06.30 | TomyWork | GuiltySpark343, why would you use the oracle jdk? |
| 12:06.44 | TomyWork | GuiltySpark343, https://adoptopenjdk.net/ |
| 12:06.54 | GuiltySpark343 | Because I want to :P |
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| 12:10.45 | TomyWork | just download adoptopenjdk, it's free and completely open source and you're not in a legal grey area like with the oracle jdk |
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| 12:44.50 | zykotick9 | regarding GuiltySpark343's question, I've used the make-jpkg to install oracles's JRE in the past - does it also work for JDK like the OP wanted? |
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| 12:58.44 | jelly | zykotick9, the script used to work, for JRE and JDK equally well, until around java 8 or 9 |
| 12:59.26 | jelly | there's also Amazon's JDK thing, I forget the name |
| 12:59.46 | jelly | Corretto |
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| 13:02.03 | jelly | a long time ago |
| 13:02.04 | jelly | -rw-r--r-- 1 jelly jelly 51160568 May 5 2017 /mnt/iso/java/oracle-java8-jre_8u131_i386.deb |
| 13:02.14 | jelly | -rw-r--r-- 1 jelly jelly 124939818 Jan 17 2018 /mnt/iso/java/oracle-java7-jdk_7u171_i386.deb |
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| 13:07.39 | zykotick9 | jelly: thanks, I was just curious (I'm not a big Java user myself). |
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| 13:08.59 | Lope | is it okay to run a database on ZFS, or should I rather run it in a XFS formatted zvol? |
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| 13:12.50 | ratrace | Lope: it's actually preferred, if you ask me. Unlike with individual files that get corrupt, you can't just revert from backup individual rows that correspond to corrupt places in a table file |
| 13:14.04 | ratrace | then again, depends if your use case is OLTP-centric or OLAP-centric, and if the latter tolerates whole-db reverts in case of trouble |
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| 13:31.02 | jaggz | God damnit. Why can't they just include packages for all the libs |
| 13:31.06 | jaggz | libcudnn.so.8 ? |
| 13:32.25 | ratrace | "they"? "all the libs"? |
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| 13:32.50 | jaggz | whoever. I don't care. probably nvidia in this case |
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| 13:37.17 | jaggz | or, how about supporting debian directly instead of ubuntu: https://developer.download.nvidia.com/compute/cuda/repos/ubuntu2004/x86_64/ |
| 13:40.54 | ratrace | can't you build the code yourself? |
| 13:41.46 | oerheks | that cuDNN gives a different Software License Agreement. |
| 13:42.02 | oerheks | https://developer.nvidia.com/rdp/form/cudnn-download-survey |
| 13:46.13 | ratrace | and while griping... the new UI elements of the current firefox-esr are atrocious. That awesomebar is popping out and makes the cues for active tab almost invisible. |
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| 13:50.20 | jelly | ratrace, get a decent browser then! https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en-us/ |
| 13:50.22 | jelly | hides |
| 13:50.42 | jelly | it has vertical tabs I hear! |
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| 13:51.37 | digdilem | i really feel sorry for the Edge programmers. |
| 13:51.49 | digdilem | constantly building something nobody wants |
| 13:52.13 | digdilem | "What is my purpose?" "To download Chrome on a new computer" |
| 13:52.24 | jelly | I want vertical tabs, and don't care how the browser is called |
| 13:52.42 | jmonrods | hey all! I have an ssd with an Uncorrectable ECC Count (SMART Attribute 234) of -1466550144 sectors... why negative? |
| 13:52.59 | jmonrods | It shows on the Disks app in GNOME |
| 13:53.02 | ratrace | wraps jelly in an ActiveX OLE container with CORBA bindings. |
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| 13:53.33 | jmonrods | Ok it suddenly changed, now -1430161280 |
| 13:53.44 | digdilem | Sounds like a bug |
| 13:53.48 | jelly | jmonrods, your version of smartctl might be misinterpreting the attribute, or the firmware might be using a known attribute for unknown purposes |
| 13:54.40 | ratrace | jmonrods: surprisingly a lot of people use Edge, me included in the windows-gaming-vm-i-dont-really-care-about-anything-other-than-steam-but-i-need-a-browser-to-look-up-stuff-when-i'm-stuck. |
| 13:54.43 | jelly | jmonrods, which debian release is this and does smartctl -a /dev/whateverdisk show the same value? |
| 13:54.43 | jmonrods | thanks! it's a really old PC so probably the SSD is not supported by the firmware |
| 13:55.04 | ratrace | oops, taht was for digdilem :) |
| 13:55.05 | jelly | I meant the ssd firmware on the ssd. |
| 13:55.20 | jelly | it. self. |
| 13:55.24 | jmonrods | it says smartctl is not installed |
| 13:55.28 | jelly | install it |
| 13:55.33 | ratrace | with --no-install-recommends |
| 13:55.35 | jmonrods | ok ok will see |
| 13:55.36 | jelly | package smartmontools |
| 13:55.38 | ratrace | or else you pull in halfa mailing suite |
| 13:55.51 | jelly | oh dear. Yeah, what he said |
| 13:55.58 | ratrace | of Exim persuasion. The ugliest of them all. |
| 13:56.03 | jmonrods | hahaha ok |
| 13:56.11 | jelly | or install dma first, then install smartmontools |
| 13:56.22 | jaggz | ratrace, the ubuntu version, thankfully, installs without error (and tensorflow-gpu loads it) .. |
| 13:57.29 | ratrace | jaggz: nice! |
| 13:57.38 | jaggz | +1! -1000 |
| 13:57.52 | jmonrods | done, thanks for the help! now it reads a 234 Unknown_Attribute of 32969851840 |
| 13:58.16 | ratrace | jaggz: also in the post container world, companies might decide not to bother and simply defer to a snap or flatpak |
| 13:58.28 | jmonrods | but I wouldn't worry too much, data is backed up anyways |
| 13:58.35 | ratrace | which are thankfully installable on debian. |
| 13:58.46 | jelly | that's completely different :-D |
| 13:58.58 | jelly | jmonrods, you can also try this weird thing |
| 13:59.01 | jelly | !hdsentinel |
| 13:59.02 | dpkg | A gratis but closed source <SMART> client with slightly more user-friendly output than <smartctl> and ability to read more USB devices than smartctl. Binaries for x86 and ARM at http://www.hdsentinel.com/hard_disk_sentinel_linux.php |
| 13:59.20 | jmonrods | oh nice! I'll look into it! |
| 13:59.23 | ratrace | ECC uncorrectible is never alone, usually correlates with reallocations or pending sectors |
| 13:59.35 | [O-O] | !start a race war |
| 13:59.41 | [O-O] | !start a de war |
| 13:59.42 | dpkg | KDE makes me vomit! |
| 13:59.56 | jmonrods | also it's not an old disk, it's been powered for only 3 months |
| 13:59.58 | jelly | eyes [O-O] |
| 14:00.14 | ratrace | jmonrods: statistically, they have increased probability of dying within first 6 months |
| 14:00.30 | jmonrods | ah that's true it may fail at the beginning or at the end |
| 14:00.31 | ratrace | then that probability tapers off and starts increasing again with age |
| 14:00.44 | jelly | ratrace, that works for ssd too? |
| 14:00.59 | ratrace | I don't have sufficient data points for that |
| 14:01.00 | jelly | HDD have that bathtub curve |
| 14:01.11 | ratrace | oh right, this is SSD .... |
| 14:01.25 | jmonrods | I think it works that way for any product |
| 14:01.43 | ratrace | but look, why not. production imperfections, cold solders, stuff should show up in first few months of operation or stfu until the age gets to bite it |
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| 14:02.48 | ratrace | sometimes the produc is so cheap and of low quality that the age factor overlaps with those "first few months" and it just dies :) |
| 14:03.34 | jmonrods | lol don't scare me, it's a chinese ssd so that's why I panicked with the negative number |
| 14:03.55 | jaggz | i wonder how it'll all interoperate between downloaded code -- in this case python, a python env with its dependencies, and their system-dependencies/libs |
| 14:04.10 | ratrace | the raw SMART values are rarely meaningful. in many attributes thoes values are bitmasks or other, nonlinear data |
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| 14:04.38 | ratrace | what makes most sense is looking at the normalized values, that's what the firmware "thinks" is the relative state of the value in terms of "good" or "bad". |
| 14:05.19 | jaggz | seagate points out their diags are often using proprietary interface so the smartdata stuff is not reliable |
| 14:05.35 | jaggz | and I should use windows and their diag software |
| 14:05.54 | ratrace | smart data is mostly false negatives. if it shows issues, then you most likely have issues. if it doesn't, ... it doesn't mean you don't have issues. |
| 14:05.58 | jmonrods | I see. Yes they probably have built their own controller into their chips |
| 14:06.13 | jelly | hdsentinel provides interpretations for some of the custom attributes |
| 14:06.16 | jaggz | (because diagnostics on "drive healthy?" is such secret stuff .. don't want other manufacturers to know how you communicate that) |
| 14:06.29 | jelly | smartctl may have caought up with it or not |
| 14:06.49 | ratrace | personally I woulnd't bother. I'd stuff enough redundancy under ZFS or BTRFS and let them eat cake. oh the disk died.... boo. *replace*. |
| 14:07.03 | jelly | For SSD, I guess "TB written" is the most common indicator of age |
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| 14:07.12 | jmonrods | Yeah! they are cheap enough. I'll back up every 2 weeks and let it be |
| 14:07.18 | jaggz | I do understand you might want to make advances to things, and not be limited to whatever's offered .. but keeping it proprietary is not necessary (I think) |
| 14:07.41 | jaggz | my issue is my seagates are slow as hell.. just tried them after a LONG time of using wd's mostly |
| 14:07.45 | ratrace | jmonrods: I back up enterprise grade EVO pros daily :) if I had cheap chiense things, I'd back them up.... minutely :) |
| 14:08.29 | ratrace | jaggz: thing with seagates is that unless you get the enterprise drives, they're probably SMRs |
| 14:08.39 | ratrace | and SMR in "normal" workloads is SLOOOOOOOW |
| 14:09.29 | jaggz | SMH |
| 14:09.42 | jaggz | and on top of it all, I think my 12gb x 2 GPU is spying on me |
| 14:09.49 | ratrace | it most likely is. |
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| 14:10.47 | ratrace | jelly: yes, and some even come with a "health" indicator as SMART attrib, that creeps toward 0 (normalized) as time passes |
| 14:11.23 | jaggz | monitoring memory to determine the types of http(s) traffic I do, sites I use, etc. then the desired data they want -- they use an encoder to reduce the data down to tiny vectors made to follow normal patterns of behavior for me, with the variations needed to encode the data |
| 14:11.25 | jaggz | and then send it out |
| 14:11.33 | ratrace | oh, another nonobvious thing with SSDs. if they're unpowered, they start losing data. in weeks even. it's not medium degradation, powered back on it'll work normally, but data might be lost. |
| 14:12.21 | jaggz | or they change the system behavior so its EM emissions have a nice clear carrier signal they pick up with their satellites |
| 14:12.43 | imMute | ratrace: weeks? I'm gonna need a citation on that... |
| 14:13.03 | ratrace | imMute: https://www.extremetech.com/computing/205382-ssds-can-lose-data-in-as-little-as-7-days-without-power |
| 14:13.05 | jmonrods | is it that severe? I know it's charge at the floating gates, but flash memory is the same |
| 14:13.17 | jmonrods | wow 7 days |
| 14:13.34 | jaggz | u.s. govt network security stuff points out that systems in supposed-to-be-isolated areas need to be careful of things like, say, metal pipes that can pick up the EM signals and carry those through to unshielded areas |
| 14:14.29 | jelly | ratrace, hdsentinel got a synthetic health % result as well! It's bogus but better than having to think about smart on your own |
| 14:14.30 | jaggz | didn't know that about ssd's.. wow.. |
| 14:15.01 | jmonrods | best back up will be always tape |
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| 14:15.33 | jmonrods | but the drives are super expensive for what I do haha |
| 14:16.24 | jmonrods | we used to back up everything in these LTO drives and forget about them in a storage room for decades (?) |
| 14:16.52 | jaggz | for post-apocalypse recovery maybe you need to learn how to make really refined read-heads out of wire |
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| 14:17.52 | jaggz | (I think they're using the highly-sensitive nature, of these mass-produced (commodity I think they call it) magnetic sensors, for reading B fields of the body now.. very cool) |
| 14:18.09 | jaggz | in the past one typically needed a SQUID device for that |
| 14:18.28 | jaggz | (superconducting quantum interference device) |
| 14:18.43 | jmonrods | oh awesome! I have a colleague at Kiel doing exactly that, B fields of the body |
| 14:19.07 | jaggz | jmonrods, that's cool! hook me up. it's been of interest to me for decades. |
| 14:19.18 | jaggz | (my college background was in physics.. no degree though) |
| 14:19.33 | jaggz | had to stop to be an in-home caregiver. yay. :) |
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| 14:20.09 | jmonrods | this is their lab https://www.se.tf.uni-kiel.de/de?set_language=de |
| 14:20.36 | ratrace | guys this is slightly tunneling into a state entangled with offtopic. |
| 14:20.47 | jmonrods | ah yes sorry |
| 14:21.33 | jaggz | ratrace, very cleverly put :) |
| 14:21.54 | ratrace | :) |
| 14:22.22 | jaggz | already intended to stop at his "caregiver" comment. |
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| 15:27.58 | TomyWork | zykotick9, jelly why would you use amazon if there's adopt, right there. I use it on my ubuntu desktop, I use it with our software and a ton of 3rd party software. we ship it to our customers, they use it with our software and some 3rd-party software that we also repackage and ship, we had literally zero issues with it |
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| 15:33.17 | Vanfanel | Hi! Is there a way to check for a lib but avoiding the messages printed by AC_CHECK_LIB? I need to use my own AC_MSG_CHECKING and AC_MSG_RESULT messages |
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| 15:34.59 | jelly | TomyWork, long term worries. a) who maintains adoptjdk b) are they more likely or less likely to keep maintaining this stuff than amazon |
| 15:35.50 | TomyWork | https://github.com/AdoptOpenJDK/TSC/#current-members mostly redhat. redhat has some stake in java due to their jboss/wildfly project (and i suppose others) |
| 15:35.52 | Kobaz | can someone recommend a (debian) linux-friendly cloud-backup... used to use Crashplan until they went ubuntu/centos only |
| 15:36.22 | TomyWork | not sure what microsoft wants with java. possibly piss off oracle :D (j/k) |
| 15:36.53 | TomyWork | the meeting minutes also frequently list IBM people. IBM has big stakes in java as well |
| 15:36.54 | jelly | microsoft's open source dealings are suprisingly legit |
| 15:37.12 | jelly | ibm has credibility in java jdk building, that's good |
| 15:37.15 | TomyWork | so, I would say that's pretty solid |
| 15:39.04 | TomyWork | they even have rules against the TSC being dominated by a single company |
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| 16:39.11 | line17 | i recovered my files with testdisk but all files have lock icon and cannot open them. i tried "chown jack FOLDER" but not worked. also did chmod 777 but same not worked |
| 16:40.42 | flrnd | if you do a "file <something.ext>" what output do you get? |
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| 16:41.27 | line17 | okay i did, thanks |
| 16:42.02 | petn-randall | line17: You didn't share the output, though. |
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| 16:42.29 | flrnd | probably because he solved it before that :> |
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| 17:06.46 | line17 | yes i solved before, correct. |
| 17:07.04 | line17 | how can i change owner a folder and subfolders to everyone in linux? |
| 17:07.13 | greycat | !permissions |
| 17:07.14 | dpkg | For information on permissions, read «info coreutils 'File Permissions'», http://mywiki.wooledge.org/Permissions and http://www.comptechdoc.org/os/linux/usersguide/linux_ugfilesp.html . For further information, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_permission and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chmod and follow the setuid and setgid links within. See also <ssh permissions>, <qotd232>. http://wiki.debian.org/Permissions |
| 17:07.42 | greycat | unless you have a user account literally named 'everyone' your question is nonsensical |
| 17:07.48 | line17 | i did chroot jack Pictures/ but it didn't apply all subfolders |
| 17:08.00 | greycat | so, jack, not "everyone" |
| 17:08.06 | greycat | chown -R jack Pictures |
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| 17:08.41 | greycat | also, you misspelled chown |
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| 17:13.06 | flrnd | seems he finally recovered the pron :) |
| 17:18.16 | ratrace | I wonder now what damage was done with that 777 if "it didn't worked" |
| 17:19.11 | flrnd | lol |
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| 17:42.18 | NetTerminalGene | is it normal watching 6-7 GB sized videos fills the 8 GB ram and uses some swap file? |
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| 17:42.33 | cws | If it loads the entire video into RAM? |
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| 17:43.37 | NetTerminalGene | cws: i just use mpv and vlc |
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| 17:44.09 | NetTerminalGene | when i say fill, i think i meant to caching or something |
| 17:44.31 | cws | What's the output of "free"? |
| 17:44.38 | shtrb | Who said it was loaded and not mmaped ? |
| 17:46.51 | NetTerminalGene | i look at htop. it says 1,95 MB is in use. but the bar filled with yellow color and swap is 316 MB |
| 17:47.03 | cws | NetTerminalGene: What is the output of "free"? |
| 17:47.04 | NetTerminalGene | 1,95 GB* |
| 17:47.38 | shtrb | pmam -i pid |
| 17:48.06 | NetTerminalGene | cws: https://paste.debian.net/1189761/ |
| 17:48.33 | cws | Yeah, tons of buffers/caches. |
| 17:48.45 | cws | You've actually got some 5.odd gigs of RAM free. |
| 17:48.51 | cws | And barely any swap usage. All seems normal. |
| 17:49.07 | cws | Swap usage isn't a bad thing. That's the system doing its job. |
| 17:49.33 | NetTerminalGene | but it fills whenever i watch big sized video |
| 17:49.41 | greycat | that's normal |
| 17:49.44 | greycat | !free ram |
| 17:49.44 | dpkg | Unlike information, your computer's memory does *not* want to be free. Free RAM is wasted RAM! Linux tries to use free physical memory for caching files from disk which speeds up disk access considerably. Linux releases RAM from these caches if programs need it. If you want to know how much physical memory the free(1) tool says you have left for program use, it's 'free' + 'buffers' + 'cache'. Also ask me about <swapwake>. |
| 17:49.53 | cws | It doesn't "fill." Data gets cached. |
| 17:50.09 | greycat | !linuxatemyram |
| 17:50.11 | cws | If the system needs to allocate more memory for ACTUAL usage, caches get dumped. |
| 17:50.20 | NetTerminalGene | cws: after that mpv crashes, but vlc doesn't |
| 17:50.31 | cws | The only number that actually matters is the one under "available" in the "free" output. |
| 17:50.40 | greycat | https://www.linuxatemyram.com/ |
| 17:50.58 | NetTerminalGene | i will download some ram |
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| 17:55.59 | NetTerminalGene | mpv crashes. dmesg says segfault |
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| 18:08.41 | NetTerminalGene | cws: is caching a lot for a specific job considered memory leak? |
| 18:08.59 | greycat | no |
| 18:09.07 | NetTerminalGene | hmm |
| 18:09.18 | greycat | A memory leak is when a process allocates an unbounded amount of memory for its own personal use. |
| 18:09.27 | NetTerminalGene | i thought mpv was crashing because of memory leak |
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| 18:10.43 | Kobaz | greycat: not entirely accurate. a memory leak is when a process allocates memory that it does not then later free, without having to terminate the program |
| 18:11.20 | greycat | Two ways of saying the same thing. |
| 18:11.20 | ratrace | ... and doesn't reuse it. |
| 18:11.27 | Kobaz | and it doesn't have to be personal use either, it could be shared memory |
| 18:11.49 | Kobaz | allocates and then doesn't free is not 'unbounded' |
| 18:11.49 | greycat | The point is, if LINUX caches a file, that is not a memory leak. Not even remotely close. |
| 18:11.59 | Kobaz | well yeah, that's entirely different |
| 18:13.20 | Kobaz | allocating an unbounded amount of memory is a type of leak... maybe? depends how far you stretch the definition |
| 18:14.28 | greycat | If there's a bound, it means there isn't a leak. Allocating 200 GB to store a user's password is technically not a memory leak, since the amount is finite. |
| 18:14.33 | Kobaz | unbounded memory more falls under the definition of 'space leak' |
| 18:14.58 | Kobaz | greycat: that's completely incorrect |
| 18:15.06 | greycat | Allocating 128 bytes *every* time the user enters their password, and never freeing/reusing it -- that's a leak. |
| 18:15.12 | ratrace | what is unbounded memory even. *alloc() requires a finite number. the kernel may or may not overcommit |
| 18:15.35 | greycat | Unbounded meaning "without limit". 1 byte every time you iterate through a loop. |
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| 18:15.49 | Kobaz | So you're saying any time someone does malloc(100), it's never going to a leak, that's just patently false |
| 18:15.56 | Kobaz | That's bounded, so... it can't be a leak? |
| 18:15.57 | greycat | ... |
| 18:16.06 | greycat | IF YOU DO IT ONE TIME, IT IS NOT A LEAK |
| 18:16.10 | Kobaz | Sure it is |
| 18:16.15 | greycat | *plonk* |
| 18:16.37 | ratrace | leak is increasingly reserving and not reusing memory. so you hit memory limits, the kernel return ENOMEM but the program isn't reusign what's already reserved. |
| 18:17.18 | ratrace | reserving and not freeing for the duration, but reusing, isn't a leak. the key here is _not_ (re)using reserved ram and constantly allocating more |
| 18:17.56 | Kobaz | memory leaks are pretty simply and specifically defined as, unreachable memory or unfreed memmory once allocated |
| 18:18.17 | Kobaz | foo = malloc(100); foo = null; // There you go, you have a leak |
| 18:18.18 | Kobaz | but anyway, heh |
| 18:18.48 | ratrace | unfreed? no. python is never returning memory to teh OS, onc allocated. that's not a leak, that's design. python does internal memory management and reusing already reserved blocks. |
| 18:19.22 | ratrace | so the key is: the program isn't using what's reserved and keeps reserving more. you both are correct, you just need to merge your truths into a single one :) |
| 18:19.26 | Kobaz | okay well, 'released' in whatever method your particular running environment needs for memory management |
| 18:20.23 | NetTerminalGene | man, caching is leak or not? |
| 18:20.29 | NetTerminalGene | just tell me this |
| 18:20.35 | Kobaz | haha, no it's not |
| 18:20.40 | Kobaz | we got into a little bit of a side thing here |
| 18:20.56 | flrnd | don't feed the nerds :> |
| 18:21.29 | NetTerminalGene | yeah. why do they know that? |
| 18:21.52 | Kobaz | cacheing is storing for later use |
| 18:21.57 | Kobaz | and if it's not needed, it will eventually go away |
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| 18:22.24 | NetTerminalGene | Kobaz: but is watching video cause that? |
| 18:22.25 | Kobaz | if you suddenly need more memory, and you don't have enough in the 'free' pool. it will page out the cache or dump it entirely and give you free memory |
| 18:22.28 | flrnd | I wonder why every example of memory leak is either C or C++ :? |
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| 18:23.00 | ratrace | Kobaz: I'd add here: in general. |
| 18:23.16 | flrnd | NetTerminalGene: what happened exactly? I'm late and curious |
| 18:23.16 | Kobaz | ... in general |
| 18:24.26 | NetTerminalGene | flrnd: memory fills if i watch something like 5-6 GB video with mpv or vlc |
| 18:24.37 | Kobaz | NetTerminalGene: if watching a video makes your memory go up and your video is studdering or having other issues... possible problems: 1) your computer is too slow, 2) your video card is too slow, 3) you don't have enough memory... 4) video is corrupted? |
| 18:24.41 | greycat | NetTerminalGene: so what? |
| 18:25.10 | NetTerminalGene | Kobaz: neither. |
| 18:25.18 | Kobaz | 5-6GB video is a fairly large video... large videos typically need more ram to watch then say... a small video |
| 18:25.21 | NetTerminalGene | i have 8GB of ram. i think it is anough |
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| 18:25.27 | Kobaz | you 'think' |
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| 18:25.55 | flrnd | 8GB is bare minimum for today's standards |
| 18:26.01 | Kobaz | 8gb enough? depends what else the OS/APPS are using, and what type of video technology you're using, and how much ram it needs to operate |
| 18:26.01 | NetTerminalGene | do TVs have more memory? |
| 18:26.23 | NetTerminalGene | i don't think so |
| 18:26.28 | greycat | 14:20 NetTerminalGene> man, caching is leak or not? |
| 18:26.29 | flrnd | er |
| 18:26.31 | Kobaz | Stop 'thinking' |
| 18:26.35 | flrnd | you are comparing pears with apples |
| 18:26.37 | Kobaz | Read the data sheet and find out |
| 18:26.40 | greycat | You *WERE* told this already. Repeatedly |
| 18:27.02 | Kobaz | Also, TV's do a lot of decoding in specialized hardware |
| 18:27.31 | apaz_ | What TVs do is not applicable here |
| 18:27.32 | flrnd | anyway, you asnwered yourlsef. You have the exact same problem with mpv AND with VLC |
| 18:27.42 | flrnd | yourself* |
| 18:27.58 | greycat | Linux uses idle memory to cache files. If the memory is needed, Linux drops the cached file and uses the memory for something else. You were given MULTIPLE explanations of this. You were given a web page. |
| 18:28.20 | Kobaz | NetTerminalGene: buy more ram? |
| 18:28.36 | flrnd | Kobaz: no becoz tvs have less memory :P |
| 18:28.39 | Kobaz | haha |
| 18:30.48 | NetTerminalGene | flrnd: are you pulling my legs? :| |
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| 18:30.58 | flrnd | no by all means :) |
| 18:31.00 | Kobaz | he is being sarcastic |
| 18:31.57 | Kobaz | NetTerminalGene: Smart TVs tend to have a minimum of 2GB of ram... but.. as mentioned. TVs are NOT PCS. They are highly specialized pieces of hardware that are dedicated to processing video and have highly optimized methods to do so in as little footprint as possible. You cannot compare a TV to a PC in terms of memory usage. |
| 18:32.08 | NetTerminalGene | even my ancient phone with 1GB of ram can play 1080p video |
| 18:32.09 | Kobaz | If you want to watch video using no ram on your PC, get a TV |
| 18:33.12 | Kobaz | You can ask all the questions you like. Again... an 'ancient phone' is not a PC |
| 18:33.24 | ratrace | chances are they're linux based ARM thingies with custom userland |
| 18:33.33 | ratrace | android even |
| 18:33.43 | Kobaz | They also have specialized hardware for handling video. And that 1080p is downsampled I'm sure |
| 18:33.52 | ratrace | prbably, yeah |
| 18:34.39 | NetTerminalGene | Kobaz: my intel cpu also has specialized hardware for decoding and encoding video |
| 18:34.44 | Kobaz | sure |
| 18:35.14 | flrnd | well I just tested mpv with a 4K (28gb) file, and it does not goes up from 250/300mb of usage... so :shrug: |
| 18:35.29 | Kobaz | But again, your environment is a PC, and a PC is going to do what a PC does. and If it uses more ram, it uses more ram |
| 18:35.39 | Kobaz | Like I said, your video file could be corrupted |
| 18:35.47 | NetTerminalGene | flrnd: does it caching more? |
| 18:35.48 | flrnd | the thing is, mpv only alocates memory for prebuffering |
| 18:35.49 | NetTerminalGene | is it* |
| 18:35.50 | Kobaz | It could be 2983489237423 other things |
| 18:35.59 | flrnd | mpv has caching disable by default |
| 18:36.09 | flrnd | if only people would read the docs... |
| 18:36.10 | NetTerminalGene | flrnd: i mean in memory |
| 18:36.18 | Kobaz | if only... |
| 18:36.20 | flrnd | that's kernel kob |
| 18:36.20 | apaz_ | I would be surprised if mpv kept the whole thing in memory. |
| 18:36.24 | flrnd | job* |
| 18:36.28 | apaz_ | Videos are usually large enough that you can't |
| 18:36.42 | greycat | Caching by the application is *independent* of caching done by the oeprating system. |
| 18:37.02 | flrnd | na, only allocates memory for prebuffering, like any modern player, it does not makes any sense load the whole file in memory |
| 18:37.26 | NetTerminalGene | flrnd: in my case it fills by time |
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| 18:37.39 | flrnd | of course, and it frees when you close the app |
| 18:37.47 | NetTerminalGene | you need to wait half an hour |
| 18:37.57 | flrnd | well, tell your kernel stop being lazy |
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| 18:38.19 | apaz_ | You allocate as many framebuffers as you're going to need, then you make your own pool of them in a circular buffer and re-use them. You only have to allocate a relatively small amount of memory at the beginning, then you free it when the application is closed or you exit the video. |
| 18:38.57 | Kobaz | NetTerminalGene: and your buffers go up? |
| 18:39.10 | Kobaz | buffers/cache ? |
| 18:39.25 | apaz_ | Then when you're reading the file, you decode and shove it into the framebuffers. You don't have to hold on to encoded video. |
| 18:39.29 | flrnd | NetTerminalGene: but I don't see the problem here. does mpv or vlc crashes mid play or what? |
| 18:39.44 | Kobaz | buffers/cache going up is again... NORMAL |
| 18:39.54 | Kobaz | generally you will get that memory back if your system needs it |
| 18:40.38 | Kobaz | when you zoom back 30 frames, it still has a good chunk of that in memory (depending on the implementation), so seeking back will be really fast |
| 18:40.57 | Kobaz | And yes, preload, if you zip forward 30 frames, it probably already has that in memory/cache |
| 18:41.17 | apaz_ | If you were to load the whole thing and hold it in memory, that would be bad. |
| 18:41.42 | apaz_ | You could stash on disk, but like... meh. |
| 18:41.45 | Ede|Popede | apaz_: it does not. try to feed a .ts file (or a stream of segments) to stdin, you won't be able to rewind too much. |
| 18:42.02 | greycat | To clarify: if an *application* holds a full video in memory, that's bad. If LINUX does it, as part of a general file caching strategy, that's not. |
| 18:42.07 | mentor | transport streams aren't indexed |
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| 18:42.35 | Ede|Popede | and mpv has a shitload of options for buffer handling. i'm still not through with them. |
| 18:42.55 | flrnd | and caching |
| 18:43.02 | apaz_ | Ede|Popde I don't really see how what you said is inconsistent with what I was talking about |
| 18:43.10 | TheBigK02 | does anyone of u use voip software? if so which one would u recommend or which one are u using |
| 18:43.21 | Ede|Popede | mentor: works fine with a local file opened as usual, can be a few gigs, no problem. but stream, no. |
| 18:43.33 | Ede|Popede | flrnd: indeed |
| 18:43.48 | mentor | Ede|Popede: Eh? |
| 18:44.03 | Ede|Popede | apaz_: "I would be surprised if" |
| 18:44.42 | Ede|Popede | mentor: `mpv $file` vs `mpv <$file` (if that's the correct redirection xD) |
| 18:44.54 | apaz_ | Ah, gotcha |
| 18:45.31 | apaz_ | Technically mpv could just read the stream, shove it into a temp file, then do whatever it wanted with that temp file. |
| 18:45.47 | Ede|Popede | or it may be related to ffmpeg, one of the things they did afaik is to remove code from the player which doesn't belong into it |
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| 18:47.41 | NetTerminalGene | Kobaz: htop show yellow bar fills the memory |
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| 18:48.16 | flrnd | you said, that you have the same problem with vlc, right? |
| 18:48.25 | Ede|Popede | NetTerminalGene: i have mostly gree, with just a drop of blue and some yellow on top. but that's firefox :) |
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| 18:48.34 | NetTerminalGene | flrnd: only mpv crashes after 30-40 min |
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| 18:48.52 | Ede|Popede | started in the shell? any useful output? |
| 18:49.15 | flrnd | well, that could be a good start, a core dump or something |
| 18:49.27 | NetTerminalGene | Ede|Popede: dmesg says, mpv/vo segfault |
| 18:49.53 | NetTerminalGene | vlc doesn't crash |
| 18:50.22 | flrnd | I don't see one of those since the early 2000 when I started my C development classes |
| 18:50.23 | NetTerminalGene | and mpv's only useful output is vo=gpu |
| 18:51.11 | flrnd | which version of mpv? stable? testing? sid? |
| 18:51.19 | NetTerminalGene | stable |
| 18:51.23 | Ede|Popede | hm. some hardware acceleration stuff not working as expected? |
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| 18:54.02 | flrnd | NetTerminalGene: can you "your fanzy error log" | nc termbin.com? |
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| 18:56.08 | Ede|Popede | isn't there "9999" missing? |
| 18:56.33 | flrnd | ups |
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| 19:01.57 | Kobaz | oooooh we have a crash |
| 19:02.09 | Kobaz | so there's finally a reported problem, not just 'memory being used' |
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| 19:05.21 | flrnd | yup, no he has 2 options, debug or vlc :P |
| 19:06.02 | Kobaz | ugh wireshark play rtp doesn't work half the time, this is so annoying |
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| 19:10.04 | Kobaz | as per tradition |
| 19:10.33 | wigums | south park |
| 19:10.55 | wigums | Kobaz do you dip your arms in pudding as per tradition? |
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| 19:11.47 | Kobaz | oh yeah, every time wireshak fails to play an rtp stream that's clearly present |
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| 19:24.38 | Kobaz | if the pcap goes above 100MB, wireshark stops playing individual strams... if you filter out the stream, write it to a new pcap, it works fine |
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| 20:02.22 | isapgswell | how configure debian/linux to leave bios vendor take care exclusive of thermal/fan |
| 20:02.23 | isapgswell | ? |
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| 20:27.56 | flrnd | I wonder why he wants to let only the bios handle the thermal. AFAIK one of the reasons that thermald exist is to prevent the bios to throttle as much as possible the cpu, or am I missing something? |
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| 20:39.19 | tosted_ | hi every body |
| 20:39.44 | tosted_ | making a usbstick with dd and debian.iso.. |
| 20:40.21 | tosted_ | but need to imcrement some drivers in lib/firmware to iniate together the system. |
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| 20:41.12 | tosted_ | how to make a usb stick readANDwrite to increment that drivers? |
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| 20:45.12 | abrotman | newnickk: /msg dpkg firmware installer |
| 20:45.29 | abrotman | Unless your firmware isn't in the existing non-free |
| 20:47.10 | abrotman | newnickk: sorry, /msg dpkg firmware imsages |
| 20:47.18 | abrotman | firmrware images |
| 20:47.30 | abrotman | I can't type, I give up .. /me goes away :) |
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| 20:48.56 | tosted | ok aboutn firmware installer.. |
| 20:49.48 | tosted | need some help with dd command.. i need a mounted recently burned device with read and write permissions |
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| 20:50.20 | flrnd | do you by any chance use gnome? |
| 20:50.32 | flrnd | you can simply "restore image" from disk utility |
| 20:51.14 | flrnd | also, what abrotman said, download the non-free installer image (google debian non-free installer) |
| 20:51.49 | tosted | No Write Permissions on USB-Drive |
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| 21:26.26 | tosted | dpkg: pm |
| 21:26.26 | dpkg | pm is, like, private message (something you don't do without asking for permission first, see <private>), or post meridiem, or prime minister, or perl mongers, or pathetic moron, or provocative/preventative/percussive maintenance, or power management (see <pm debug>) |
| 21:27.53 | karlpinc | !firmware images |
| 21:27.53 | dpkg | There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ The images are "unofficial" because "official Debian" includes only 100% free software. They are otherwise identical to the normal installer images and prepared by the same Debian Developers. See <check iso>. |
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| 21:29.56 | tosted | mount -w do not remove write protections of usb with debian.iso |
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| 21:34.15 | flrnd | tosted: what you are trying to do is a bit more complex than simply change write permission to the ISO, I'm tempted to let you continue with that path, but *good person* me is just crying |
| 21:36.03 | flrnd | first off all, use the non-free iso image. If that image doesn't have the drivers you need, https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Modify but good luck with that |
| 21:36.50 | flrnd | or simply copy the driver to a second USB and load it (you have an option during the install to load additional drivers) |
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| 21:39.58 | tosted | flrnd: that is it! non free image hasse all firmare? |
| 21:40.02 | tosted | flrnd: that is it! non free image has all firmare? |
| 21:41.35 | flrnd | https://wiki.debian.org/Firmware |
| 21:42.04 | abrotman | tosted: that's why I suggested it an hour ago |
| 21:42.10 | flrnd | yeah... |
| 21:43.26 | flrnd | !firmware images |
| 21:43.26 | dpkg | There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ The images are "unofficial" because "official Debian" includes only 100% free software. They are otherwise identical to the normal installer images and prepared by the same Debian Developers. See <check iso>. |
| 21:43.37 | flrnd | and he disconnected again XD |
| 21:44.00 | dvs | tosted saw you coming! |
| 21:44.07 | rgwu | A little too tosted for this right now perhaps |
| 21:44.30 | dvs | prefers cereal |
| 21:44.34 | flrnd | well, I'm tempted letting him continue trying to force-write the iso installer }:> |
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| 21:49.21 | dvs | he's back! |
| 21:50.11 | tosted | fjr |
| 21:50.13 | tosted | fk |
| 21:50.25 | tosted | firmware or firmware-edu? |
| 21:50.39 | flrnd | firmware |
| 21:51.03 | tosted | sorry abrotman! |
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