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| 00:45.58 | galex-713 | Hi |
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| 00:46.18 | galex-713 | did debian sign the anti-rms letter before or after the vote? did the vote happen? what was the outcome? |
| 00:46.42 | dvs | rms won, FSF is losing sponsors. |
| 00:52.40 | galex-713 | dvs: thatâs not my question, my question was related to debian |
| 00:52.55 | galex-713 | (also your question can be reinterpreted into opposite ways, itâs not clear enough) |
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| 00:55.57 | prompt32 | /help |
| 00:56.22 | prompt32 | \/help |
| 00:56.24 | dvs | meh |
| 00:58.59 | awal1 | any better way to launch a few programs a few MINUTES after X is reached? (openbox) I already use "sleep" command but I thought that there is maybe something "better"? |
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| 00:59.21 | awal1 | i'm talking about launching stuff like firefox, chromium, x terminals... |
| 00:59.53 | awal1 | i know about "at" but i think itsn't the one needed here (?) |
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| 01:06.00 | prompt32 | ð¥ |
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| 01:14.46 | *** topic/#debian by themill -> Current Debian release is buster, 10.9 point release /msg dpkg 10.9; /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Stretch has limited LTS support: /msg dpkg stretch-lts ; /msg dpkg 9.13 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
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| 01:16.37 | sney | awal1: I don't know if openbox has a builtin for this, but you could use a 'while' loop to delay starting your program until something else is detected, like 'pidof' output or so. https://tldp.org/LDP/Bash-Beginners-Guide/html/sect_09_03.html |
| 01:17.10 | sney | usually when people ask for a way to delay something for x time, what they really want is to avoid a race condition. you can eliminate it altogether by actually checking for the condition you need. |
| 01:18.42 | awal1 | sney, thanks for the link, suggestions and attention :) |
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| 01:22.07 | sney | np |
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| 01:31.02 | slowly_stuck | I created a network namespace and used a veth pair and a bridge to allow it to communicate with the local network. It starts out not working, but later functions properly. Should I not give the same IP to both veth endpoints? diagram: https://paste.debian.net/1191296/ |
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| 01:34.18 | sney | please use cidr notation in your network diagrams. and no, when you have a tiny segment with 2 endpoints, they should have separate addresses. if you don't want to waste address space you can use a /30 or a /31 even |
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| 01:38.34 | slowly_stuck | thanks sney, I'll cidr in the future. if I give a different IP to one side of the veth, will traffic be able to route back to it? Or is there some kind of automatic NAT rewrite? |
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| 01:39.20 | sney | I don't see anything in your diagram that indicates nat |
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| 01:44.04 | sney | but if you set up your routes correctly then traffic will be able to route between your network segments, yes. this is pretty basic networking stuff, virtualized. if you have any networking experience it may help to visualize them as physically separate racks and switches. |
| 01:44.34 | sney | if you *don't* have much networking experience and are just trying to hack through it as a linux user, stop, and go watch some video tutorials about networking |
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| 01:45.47 | slowly_stuck | sney: I understand a bridge (switch), I just don't get what concept to map a veth pair onto. If I ping gateway from net2 namespace, it's coming from .12. Does veth pair also act like a switch? (updated diagram: https://paste.debian.net/1191297/) |
| 01:46.31 | slowly_stuck | Fundementally, if something on main network ARPs for 10.0.0.12, can the net2 veth respond? |
| 01:47.43 | sney | a veth pair is a point to point link. the closest modern analogy is a vpn connection, or the connection between your home router and the ISP. |
| 01:48.43 | sney | if your whole network, including both namespaces and this ptp link, are all in the same /24, then you've completely missed the point of having spearate segments |
| 01:50.04 | cws | How is a ptp link in a /24? |
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| 01:51.27 | sney | the diagram says it is. obviously it shouldn't be |
| 01:51.33 | empty_string | slowly_stuck: is your goal to get the v0-net2 interface to act like it is on the same switch as the rest of your network? |
| 01:52.13 | sney | is pretty sure "stop, and go watch some video tutorials about networking" is the correct next step |
| 01:55.25 | empty_string | slowly_stuck: think of the veth pairs as two interfaces connected by a regular ethernet cable. any ethernet frames that go on one end will come out the other. from that perspective, bridging v0-main to br0 is like plugging in one end of a cable into a switch. it doesn't really make sense to assign an IP address to that side |
| 01:56.14 | empty_string | veth does operate at layer 2, so that's all you need to get ethernet frames into your net2 namespace. when you assign an IP address on v0-net2, then it'll start answering for ARP requests on that address, yes |
| 01:57.03 | slowly_stuck | empty_string: yes, that's my goal. So there's no point in assigning an IP to v0-main, I just need to bring up the interface? |
| 01:57.19 | empty_string | right, just bring up the interface and attach it to the bridge |
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| 01:59.02 | slowly_stuck | perfect, thanks empty_string! sney, I'm also trying to self-educate about PTP links, but not finding good documentation (mostly, pages talking about T1s). Do you have a recommended place for me to RTFM? |
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| 02:02.03 | sney | slowly_stuck: ppp might give you better search results. but honestly, I've been a linux nerd since I was a teenager, and I needed to take some classes years later to really wrap my head around networking stuff. it seems like it should be easy to jump from one to the other but it isn't. |
| 02:03.27 | sney | the _concept_ is that it's just 2 ip endpoints in a tube that only talk to each other, and they're 172.16.84.1/31 and 172.16.84.2/31 or whatever, and each endpoint is a router that also has routes for any other directly connected network segments |
| 02:03.49 | sney | but if you grind through a ccna course on youtube you'll understand all of this and more |
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| 02:07.28 | slowly_stuck | thanks sney, the "also route for each other" fills in a lot of mental blanks, and I'll read up on PPP. |
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| 02:08.27 | sney | PPP was the dialup protocol. some dsl providers still use it, but be prepared for old articles. the principle still applies though, and tcp/ip hasn't changed in decades |
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| 02:19.18 | cws | If you're trying to do a point-to-point, you're going to use a /32 and specify the IP address of the peer. |
| 02:19.42 | cws | I believe in the new iproute2 toolset, you omit the prefix length entirely. |
| 02:20.24 | cws | ip addr add 10.100.100.1 peer 10.100.100.2 dev eth0 |
| 02:20.27 | cws | Something along those lines. |
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| 04:07.47 | isapgswell | hi |
| 04:07.50 | isapgswell | why i dont see nvidiadrmfb like radeondrmfb ? |
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| 05:21.58 | isapgswell | hi |
| 05:22.22 | isapgswell | why nvidia drm minor 0 gives me black screen |
| 05:22.25 | isapgswell | ? |
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| 05:31.48 | isapgswell | any idea? |
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| 06:00.20 | Romko | Hello, Good morning ! |
| 06:00.52 | CyberManifest | Good morning Romko |
| 06:01.24 | Romko | I have a PowerBook G4 and am interested in moving to Linux. I was told Debian still supports the Power architecture. |
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| 06:01.51 | Romko | The reason for my change is because Leopard is no longer viable. |
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| 06:08.43 | Romko | I guess what I can do is goto the website to see if the architecture is still supported. |
| 06:08.50 | Wally | Romko, it should be. |
| 06:09.06 | Romko | Its a PowerPC Mac. |
| 06:09.17 | Wally | Yes and? |
| 06:09.35 | Wally | Pretty sure there were mostly only Macs that used PPC hardware :P |
| 06:09.42 | Wally | and a certain mars robot. |
| 06:10.01 | Romko | True, but also Power architecture belonged to IBM and they were using Power4,5,6,7,8,9 |
| 06:10.49 | Wally | https://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/inst/pmac |
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| 06:13.32 | Romko | *reading site* |
| 06:17.42 | Romko | Ok, while it does mention that it runs great on it, I went to the ports section and it says discontinued and trying to find the installer to download. |
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| 06:21.37 | Romko | ok, i found the installers page and I see ppc64el which is the only one. |
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| 06:34.11 | budlight | hello |
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| 08:11.02 | f0r3ign3r | Hi there, I'm trying to connect a displayport monitor into the system but it's not being detected by the OS. |
| 08:11.02 | f0r3ign3r | I've tried to set dpms off with xset, and tried to run xrandr --auto but no luck. |
| 08:11.03 | f0r3ign3r | Secure boot on BIOS is desabled (I read somewhere that it may cause problems), the GPU is an AMD 5700xt with latest available mesa driver. The displayport screen works under windows, but not in Debian (x11). Is there a way to force a hardware rescan to detect the display port monitor? I cannot set an X11 monitor rule since I cannot reach an ID for |
| 08:11.03 | f0r3ign3r | it |
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| 08:54.50 | ratrace | f0r3ign3r: is that radeon Navi? |
| 08:56.53 | klys | so I have here a gateway m275, pentium-mmx laptop. I booted it from a jessie-live cd. watched youtube for a while with firefox. I have a shell open via telnet from another machine, which doesn't want to return my prompt. it's been accessing the cd for a while in repetitive patterns. bit over half an hour. |
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| 08:57.46 | unborn | hi guys is it safe to delete directory /etc/resolvconf as apt is complaining that folder is not empty? |
| 08:58.17 | sigint | f0r3ign3r, FYI I gave up trying to get my 5700xt to work correctly with debian buster. I'm now running testing and everything works well as far as I can tell, although I'm using HDMI so not sure about displayport. |
| 08:58.25 | ratrace | unborn: only if "resolvconf" package is not installed and in use |
| 08:58.33 | klys | unborn, probably. /etc/resolv.conf however contains a list of dns name servers for internet access. |
| 08:58.57 | ratrace | sigint: f0r3ign3r: if that's Navi, I was gonna recommend upgrading the kernel to backports beause 4.19 won't have support for it, it came with 5.x, forgot the x |
| 08:59.14 | ratrace | klys: resolv.conf file != resolvconf dir |
| 09:00.23 | unborn | ratrace: well last night I've installed debian 10 over debian 9 from live dvdbut not home...apt is complaining when I try to update && upgrade. I think it could be due to old packages perhaps? |
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| 09:00.40 | sigint | The problem with using the backports kernel is that it doesn't play nice with other parts of the display stack. I haven't figured out exactly what but it seems like different software from different eras don't use the same APIs or something like that. |
| 09:00.46 | f0r3ign3r | ratrace yea, radeon navi |
| 09:01.04 | unborn | klys: I know but I think directory is different from file |
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| 09:01.24 | ratrace | unborn: possible, resolvconf is maybe no longer needed, and I think it's deprecated in 10 |
| 09:01.33 | f0r3ign3r | sigint I'm on Debian testing now. The spare HDMI monitor is working, but the DisplayPort appears as disconnected everytime, no matter which DP I connect the cable in |
| 09:01.39 | f0r3ign3r | clear |
| 09:01.40 | unborn | ratrace: here is paste from update https://paste.topfreelancer.co.uk/a8336a@raw |
| 09:01.49 | klys | unborn, it is. if resolvconf is installed, it'll show up in $ dpkg -l resolvconf |
| 09:02.51 | ratrace | unborn: you can't nuke your system if you remove it. worst case, you'll have to manually add a resolver to /etc/resolv.conf to install it back. resolvconf is a piece of software that coalesces resolv.conf from multiple sources. with systemd, that is not longer needed. NM doesn't need it. static resolv.conf doesn't need it. |
| 09:03.51 | ratrace | f0r3ign3r: do you have firmware-amd-graphics installed? |
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| 09:05.01 | unborn | klys: output of dkpg -l resolvconf giving me this output https://paste.topfreelancer.co.uk/81f5a6@raw I think that means its not installed |
| 09:06.35 | unborn | okay its not installed |
| 09:07.03 | ratrace | yup, it's not |
| 09:07.05 | f0r3ign3r | ratrace firmware-amd-graphics is installed yep. |
| 09:09.26 | ratrace | f0r3ign3r: can you pastebin /var/log/Xorg.0.log ? what's your desktop or WM; what's your DM or do you use startx? |
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| 09:09.35 | unborn | okay gonna reboot to see if I survive |
| 09:09.42 | unborn | init 6 |
| 09:09.44 | unborn | ups |
| 09:10.28 | ratrace | you reboot by....... lol how exactly? |
| 09:11.16 | unborn | back.. |
| 09:11.26 | unborn | ratrace: yap I just did |
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| 09:12.45 | unborn | no complains from apt any more thank you ratrace and klys |
| 09:16.24 | ratrace | unborn: I mean _how_ are you initiating the reboot? telinit? |
| 09:17.56 | unborn | ratrace: uhm its fastest way to just type init 6 to reboot and init 0 to halt system no? as root of course? |
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| 09:26.20 | ratrace | unborn: it works, it's just unusual these days |
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| 09:27.50 | ratrace | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:28.18 | unborn | ratrace: I know, perhaps Im old school ;) also I found system go much faster down, it should be safe to use it those days anyway |
| 09:30.48 | ratrace | I think that "faster" is just placebo. systemd does the same shutdown.target (or whatsitsname) dance |
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| 09:35.49 | unborn | ratrace: perhaps you're right |
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| 12:13.44 | dbristow | 10.9.0 is out |
| 12:13.57 | dbristow | Oh, in the topic already |
| 12:14.11 | wsky | we're always few steps ahead |
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| 12:24.20 | NetTerminalGene | site load takes time after first launch of firefox if i change the DNS. it is fine with ISP's DNS. what should i do? |
| 12:24.48 | NetTerminalGene | it doesn't matter which DNS i use |
| 12:24.59 | NetTerminalGene | there is no problem with DNS |
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| 12:40.58 | ratrace | NetTerminalGene: obviously report to your ISP |
| 12:42.24 | ratrace | and/or you can use tcpdump to see the queries and responses with another DNS |
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| 12:54.28 | NetTerminalGene | ratrace: chromium based browser work fine |
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| 12:54.50 | NetTerminalGene | there is no problem on ISP's side |
| 12:55.28 | NetTerminalGene | it happens after first launch of the firefox. after that everything works fine |
| 12:55.34 | ratrace | NetTerminalGene: are you using DoH in firefox then? Is that ESR or are you running some upstream version? |
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| 12:55.56 | NetTerminalGene | i change the DNS on networkmanager. i use ESR |
| 12:56.04 | ratrace | and again, tcpdump will show you queries and responses, whether they go through, whether they're late, etc... |
| 12:56.29 | NetTerminalGene | but other browser works fine |
| 12:56.43 | ratrace | I guess you don't need help then. |
| 12:56.44 | NetTerminalGene | there is no load time with changed dns |
| 12:57.07 | NetTerminalGene | i guess you don't need to try help then |
| 12:57.18 | ratrace | yup. that's exactly what i'll do now. |
| 12:57.23 | NetTerminalGene | good |
| 12:57.26 | ratrace | good luck |
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| 13:43.19 | shtrb | How do I get today's messages from the irclog ? |
| 13:43.34 | shtrb | *https://infobot.rikers.org/%23debian/ |
| 13:44.28 | busternube | is Linux able to provide GAMES solutiotn for these non display GPU card miniing cards etc. can video be re-routed thru screen feature displayed thru another card/port? |
| 13:44.50 | busternube | they dont have monitor connectors |
| 13:45.56 | busternube | the second card just needs to pass the video doesnt need to calculate the 3d etc no? |
| 13:46.11 | shtrb | busternube, pc or laptop ? |
| 13:46.30 | busternube | the firmware does not produce video languge |
| 13:46.33 | busternube | pv |
| 13:46.36 | busternube | pc |
| 13:46.38 | busternube | lol |
| 13:46.57 | busternube | the mmining card does not speak video |
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| 13:48.34 | busternube | someone will invent a "wrapper" or something that taps those processors |
| 13:49.46 | shtrb | You already can use them to render data, your problem is to take the rendred images and display them fast enough with your onboard card |
| 13:50.29 | busternube | divide the labor job the second with the non math parts create a virtual game card with a miner and a second graphic card |
| 13:52.17 | EmleyMoor | would still like to find computers where *everything* active is on a card - but they're probably next to impossible these days |
| 13:53.04 | busternube | im pisssed the bitminers stole my fun |
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| 13:54.50 | busternube | thats very vague |
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| 14:29.20 | shtrb | [using X] Any suggestion how to debug xclip not putting data into DE's clipboard ? "upitme | xclip " and then xclip -o in the same window works but doing ctrl+V in a different windows does not paste it but ctrl+shift+insert does |
| 14:29.23 | shtrb | and plasma |
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| 14:39.45 | shtrb | never mind found it , I should had been doing xclip -selection clipboard instead |
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| 15:32.48 | mentor | busternube: It's fairly common for laptops to have a discrete GPU that isn't connected to any display output ports, so support for rendering on one GPU and outputting on another is standard. |
| 15:33.54 | busternube | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:34.38 | busternube | the only instance i know were hackers that returned them to original by reprograming the firmware |
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| 15:39.01 | busternube | i just installed this thing 2 days and already i'm OOd |
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| 15:48.43 | shtrb | mentor, laptops have a hardware connection between the descrete GPU and the internal screen |
| 15:49.01 | mentor | shtrb: No. |
| 15:49.07 | shtrb | yes |
| 15:49.35 | shtrb | physical connection exist, but by software you are allowed to export the data to a second monitor or to switch it out |
| 15:49.38 | shtrb | there's a physical lane |
| 15:49.43 | mentor | shtrb: They do not, it would require a hardware switching chip, which is expensive |
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| 15:50.23 | mentor | shtrb: Not to mention tedious to have to maintain software for. |
| 15:50.40 | shtrb | At least with Nvidia descrete card there's a physical connection internally, that why you can use your descrete card to play games on the laptop screen |
| 15:50.44 | mentor | shtrb: In any case, you can look this up in the XRANDR connection |
| 15:51.15 | mentor | shtrb: As I say, it is fairly common for them to not have a display output. |
| 15:51.29 | mentor | shtrb: XRANDR extension |
| 15:51.30 | shtrb | that's a different thing |
| 15:52.04 | mentor | shtrb: No, that is where the management for GPU offload lives |
| 15:52.29 | mentor | shtrb: I suggest you actually look before doing anything else |
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| 15:53.04 | shtrb | facepalms |
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| 15:55.51 | mentor | shtrb: What different thing is it? |
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| 15:58.06 | ChrisH | A while ago I found a SW/extension to do a overlay mount on a mounted filesystem to provide the files encrypted. I want to do a rsync of the encrypted version into a backup cloud. I'm no longer finding it.... Any hints on what I need to search for? |
| 16:00.47 | shtrb | reread what I wrote, and what you had said, you are arguing against the what I had said "that discrete cards in laptops are physically connected to the the screen internally" |
| 16:00.51 | shtrb | mentor, ^ |
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| 16:02.33 | mentor | shtrb: Yes, I am saying that discrete cards in laptops do not always have a display output to the internal, and indeed, any external screens. |
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| 16:05.38 | mentor | ChrisH: You are having trouble finding the encrypted file, or you are having trouble finding the overlay mount extension? |
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| 16:07.26 | shtrb | mentor, yes, technically there could be a laptop with a discrete card which is not wired to the internal screen (eDP/LVFD etc) , I had NEVER seen such a case, but it is possible. |
| 16:07.40 | mentor | shtrb: I am using one now |
| 16:07.54 | oxek | ChrisH: gocrypt? |
| 16:08.27 | shtrb | mentor, Could you share the model and information on such case ? and do you really mean you have no way to represent the infromation your card on your internal screen ? |
| 16:08.51 | ChrisH | mentor: the overlay mount extension. I currently backup using amanda onto a LUKS disk and duplicity does not fit my needs as I need to do full backups to be able to cleanup. A full backup takes about 24h upload :( rsync the delta will be much faster. |
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| 16:09.39 | mentor | shtrb: No, anything rendered on the discrete GPU gets sent through to the display output hardware provided by the Intel chipset |
| 16:10.08 | mentor | shtrb: I'm not entirely clear on if it is routed through the builtin GPU, directly to RAM, etc. |
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| 16:10.39 | mentor | Actually, I can't remember if the display output is on the CPU or PCH |
| 16:10.58 | mentor | shtrb: In any case, this is such a common case that there is a standard X interface for it. |
| 16:11.35 | mentor | shtrb: For the avoidance of doubt, sent through the PCI Express interface. |
| 16:12.26 | shtrb | mentor, can you share your laptop model and card model please ? |
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| 16:12.54 | mentor | shtrb: It's a Dell Inspiron 5770 with an AMD discrete GPU |
| 16:12.55 | shtrb | I would be surprised if that is not linked to the eDP (for a modern laptop) |
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| 16:13.19 | mentor | shtrb: It does not export any display hardware to X |
| 16:13.36 | shtrb | it's a different thing |
| 16:13.55 | mentor | shtrb: No it isn't. |
| 16:14.25 | shtrb | A physical lane does not mean there would be a linux driver for it , we do not see what happen LVDS (for old laptops) at all in X level |
| 16:15.12 | mentor | shtrb: I am looking at the display outputs for my laptop as reported by X now. |
| 16:15.21 | shtrb | facepalm |
| 16:15.41 | mentor | shtrb: For the avoidance of dount, there are LVDS outputs. |
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| 16:16.33 | mentor | shtrb: You seem to spend on awful lot of time looking at your palm, and not at documentation. |
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| 16:19.12 | shtrb | mentor, let me express it in a different way here's my output of xdrandr (https://paste.debian.net/1191374/ ) you don't see one of the cards because It's not being used , but it's physically there. |
| 16:19.13 | mentor | ChrisH: Was it a FUSE filesystem |
| 16:20.22 | mentor | shtrb: Yes? |
| 16:20.46 | ChrisH | oxek,mentor gocrypt looks like what I am looking for. Testing ;-) |
| 16:20.51 | mentor | shtrb: I imagine if you do --listproviders you will be able to see that the one that isn't there can sink offload |
| 16:21.21 | shtrb | nope |
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| 16:21.47 | shtrb | mentor, https://paste.debian.net/1191376/ |
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| 16:22.44 | mentor | shtrb: OK, well, I have a laptop where that is not true |
| 16:22.56 | mentor | shtrb: Also, that type of laptop is common |
| 16:23.53 | mentor | shtrb: Not all my providers sink output |
| 16:24.48 | shtrb | mentor, I had worked with many laptops in my life , I didn't find your laptops schematics yet, and I had NEVER seen a case where the GPU would not be linked to the internal screen over one of the internal lanes, I also doubt your AMD GPU is wired via the intel card and not directly via LVDS/eDP and similar things to your internal screen |
| 16:26.04 | Dude-Meister | Hi. I'm running (principally) Debian 10.8.0, but would also appriciate being able to use suggestions in CentOS7 as well. My question is, do I have different options for running a virtual machine (or 3) in Debian as a student of this particular flavor of "Zen and the Art of Linux (Home (PC) Maintenance?" |
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| 16:26.15 | dvs | old version! |
| 16:26.30 | oxek | oh come on, it's 1 day old :) |
| 16:26.50 | oxek | Dude-Meister: you can run whichever virtual machine you want on debian |
| 16:26.55 | oxek | debian places no restrictions on it |
| 16:26.56 | dvs | lets his sns out. |
| 16:26.56 | towo` | shtrb, in all optimus laptops without a hardware mux the dgpu is rendering only over the igpu |
| 16:27.15 | towo` | so there the nvidia is not wired to any display |
| 16:27.52 | shtrb | towo`, thanks |
| 16:27.58 | towo` | the content from the nvidia is going with dri offload |
| 16:28.07 | Dude-Meister | oxek, have you a suggestion for someone that wasn't even sure there WERE options? :) |
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| 16:28.53 | shtrb | towo`, you are talking about my case ? because that's not an offloading case (to what I know ) |
| 16:28.54 | mentor | I think KVM is taken to be relatively low effort |
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| 16:29.59 | towo` | shtrb, no, i speak in general about notebooks, where lcpci allways show 2 graphics devices |
| 16:30.14 | shtrb | towo`, because I'm working in discrete mode (UEFI level) and not hybrid mode (which allow you to select which gpu would be used) |
| 16:30.15 | Dude-Meister | oxek, also, this thing ----> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsh64rjnRas that I pointed tyo the other day is also very helpful in crystalizing rudimentary understanding of disk partitioning and formatting for use with Linux or "Other" too. It's really quite good. |
| 16:30.18 | shtrb | towo`, ah ok |
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| 16:30.34 | towo` | aind especialy for optimus, where in 99% the nvidia card is not wired to any display |
| 16:31.05 | towo` | shtrb, it was abaout your "I had worked with many laptops in my life , I didn't find your laptops schematics yet, and I had NEVER seen a case where the GPU would not be linked to the internal screen" |
| 16:31.33 | Dude-Meister | oxek, of coprse, only for one that is willing to take the time and go through slowly. It'sd very much a rapid-fire presentation. |
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| 16:33.17 | oxek | Dude-Meister: there's qemu/kvm, virt-manager (GUI), virsh (commandline), virtualbox, vmware, ... |
| 16:33.20 | oxek | all work on debian |
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| 16:37.56 | oxek | Dude-Meister: no need to PM me, getting virtual machines work on debian is still on-topic here |
| 16:38.08 | oxek | more people will see your messages and can help if you just type in this channel |
| 16:39.32 | oxek | imo, the easiest way to get into virtualization is to install the package named qemu-system-x86 |
| 16:40.21 | oxek | and then start some virtual machine, with some .iso file, using a command like `qemu-system-x86_64 -enable-kvm -cdrom /path/to/the/iso/file -m 1024` |
| 16:40.33 | Dude-Meister | Even while running a 64 bit machine? |
| 16:40.58 | oxek | what would make you think that would be a problem? |
| 16:41.27 | Dude-Meister | My profound lack of knowledge, most likely. :) |
| 16:42.08 | oxek | there are some resources on the debian wiki |
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| 16:42.29 | oxek | also the archlinux wiki is awesome, and most of it applies to debian too, not just to archlinux |
| 16:42.56 | oxek | !debian wiki |
| 16:42.56 | dpkg | The Debian wiki (http://wiki.debian.org/) is a support and documentation resource for the Debian project. For information about the wiki itself, see http://wiki.debian.org/DebianWiki . Wiki bugs are documented in the <BTS>, see http://bugs.debian.org/wiki.debian.org . See also <immutable wiki>. |
| 16:43.15 | Dude-Meister | I have some "Lessons" lined up, I just wanted to as a "Pre-Sales" question about a package that has no proice tag before I rioll up my sleeves and start learning about running VMs. |
| 16:43.41 | Dude-Meister | wanted to *ask* |
| 16:43.54 | oxek | VMs are really simple from a user perspective |
| 16:44.33 | oxek | you might also look into containerization technologies (LXC, docker, LXD, ...) since they solve a similar need, while often requiring less resources |
| 16:44.50 | oxek | and once again, all of it is supported on debian |
| 16:46.01 | Dude-Meister | Wow wow wow. All very helpful library references, and I really appreciate your help! |
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| 17:05.13 | ChrisH | oxek: It's scritped. I will see the next backup if it works as I expect. Thanks. |
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| 17:13.38 | Caesar_NayKid | Howdy |
| 17:14.49 | wsky | hiya |
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| 17:15.23 | CyberManifest | Ahoy |
| 17:15.51 | oxek | no piracy here please, thanks |
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| 17:17.26 | Caesar_NayKid | Im building a new PC. It is based on an intel i5 Rocket Lake CPU that comes out 3/30 and a Gigabyte motherboard that has z590 chipset with PCI-E 4.0 and a Samsung pro ssd.. im new to Linux and have only tried Ubuntu but want to try Debian now.. however, i read that Debian might not support the newest hardware sometimes.. i was hoping to run into |
| 17:17.26 | Caesar_NayKid | some experienced Debian users who might be able to tell me if they expect I'll have problems |
| 17:18.47 | Caesar_NayKid | I want to run Debian because i hear it is one of the most stable OSs |
| 17:19.01 | abrotman | Do you know which kernels support your devices? |
| 17:19.23 | Caesar_NayKid | I wouldn't even know where to begin to know haha |
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| 17:20.58 | sney | what ubuntu version worked? |
| 17:21.25 | abrotman | I don't think they have a built PC yet |
| 17:21.28 | Caesar_NayKid | I have not tried Ubuntu on this system.. i have ordered the parts but they don't arrive until next week |
| 17:21.33 | sney | oh, right. |
| 17:21.51 | Caesar_NayKid | So the kernel is a general linux kernel? |
| 17:22.06 | Caesar_NayKid | I should research that first before choosing a distribution? |
| 17:22.21 | Caesar_NayKid | I am super n00b level but trying to learn on the weekends |
| 17:22.28 | sney | hardware support is determined by the kernel, that's where the drivers are. |
| 17:23.06 | sney | intel is a major contributor to the linux kernel, so any intel components will probably work out of the box, with bullseye if not also with buster |
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| 17:23.48 | sney | (bullseye is the current testing branch. it'll be released as debian 11 sometime later this year.) |
| 17:24.02 | Caesar_NayKid | I just saw some news about a Debian 11 freeze but im guessing I'd be using Buster? |
| 17:24.44 | sney | that would be up to you. buster is the version you would download from the debian.org main page, though. |
| 17:25.59 | CyberManifest | sney are the net installs selective or are they version oriented ? |
| 17:26.43 | sney | the standard netinstall is version-specific. |
| 17:27.50 | Caesar_NayKid | I mean, i would like to use Bullseye if it's ready to go, but im trying to determine what's the minimum version my hardware will support |
| 17:27.50 | CyberManifest | wouldn't it be more practical to maintain only one net install with selective versioning ? |
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| 17:28.37 | CyberManifest | Caesar_NayKid my guess is you'll be fine |
| 17:28.43 | Caesar_NayKid | If this is the wrong place to ask newb questions let me know and I'll gladly redirect to the kiddie pool |
| 17:28.45 | sney | the netinst image also contains a base system, so making it support multiple debian versions would make the iso unreasonably large for a "network" installer |
| 17:28.48 | CyberManifest | Caesar_NayKid and if not right away eventually |
| 17:29.16 | CyberManifest | sney that's fair |
| 17:29.16 | Mister00X | Caesar_NayKid: you could try with different live images of different distros what works.... also there is https://linux-hardware.org/ |
| 17:29.23 | sney | there is a mini.iso that *doesn't* have a base system and can be used to install any debian version. it's usually only used for edge cases though. |
| 17:29.33 | Caesar_NayKid | Im looking for a now solution. |
| 17:29.48 | Caesar_NayKid | Not to my questions but to the system |
| 17:30.01 | Caesar_NayKid | Yes i plan to test a few |
| 17:30.06 | sney | Caesar_NayKid: my guess is that bullseye will support your new system with no hassle. buster may be difficult to get going, but should still be possible, as long as you have a second computer to shuffle some packages on to usb drives |
| 17:30.08 | CyberManifest | sney interesting, wasn't aware |
| 17:30.13 | Caesar_NayKid | Was hoping to go with Debian for some reason |
| 17:30.44 | CyberManifest | sney I mean I think I've had and used the mini.iso before but didn't realize it was base agnostic |
| 17:30.45 | Caesar_NayKid | So i may have issues installing packages over the network if i go Buster? |
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| 17:31.20 | CyberManifest | Caesar_NayKid I'm betting you'll have better results with bullseye |
| 17:31.41 | sney | what typically happens is that the stock buster kernel is too old to support some integrated network and/or video devices, so you install the OS, then manually install the updated kernel from buster-backports. +/- firmware packages if wifi is involved. |
| 17:33.24 | CyberManifest | and all else fails you maintain your own kernel |
| 17:34.13 | sney | it is exceedingly rare in 2021 to _need_ to build a custom kernel. |
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| 17:39.31 | Caesar_NayKid | Got disconnected |
| 17:39.49 | Caesar_NayKid | I won't be running WiFi if that helps |
| 17:40.49 | sney | it'll make the install slightly smoother, most likely. |
| 17:41.22 | sney | anyway, we can only guess at support until you actually get the system. but I think it'll probably be fine. if you get stuck you can ask here. |
| 17:41.36 | Caesar_NayKid | No special video card just Intel graphics or onboard video |
| 17:41.40 | Caesar_NayKid | Gotcha |
| 17:41.59 | TaZeR | what are general relations like between the debian and mx linux communities? is there a hatred such as the one between archlinux and manjaro, or is it different? |
| 17:42.07 | Caesar_NayKid | I think the main question is the nvme m.2 pci express 4.0 |
| 17:42.32 | sney | TaZeR: debian is mostly indifferent to mxlinux, except that mx doesn't have a support channel so their users tend to end up here |
| 17:43.20 | Caesar_NayKid | Apparently AMD has been using pcie 4.0 nvme for a while but i got the impression that was new for Intel motherboards |
| 17:43.47 | TaZeR | interesting, they should start a community support channel atleast |
| 17:43.58 | Caesar_NayKid | I wasn't sure if something that is coming out this week would be in Bullseye |
| 17:44.14 | TaZeR | well i guess thats what they all are, or the devs themselves oversee this channel? |
| 17:44.29 | sney | yeah, I've seen some nvme hardware not get recognized by the buster installer. not sure what makes the difference. but if that's the case, then just install bullseye. |
| 17:44.43 | TaZeR | i imagine the devs might be more upset at how well distros like ubuntu and then mx linux did for themselves based off debians code |
| 17:44.50 | Caesar_NayKid | How "stable" is Bullseye as test |
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| 17:45.13 | sney | Caesar_NayKid: it's a new chip, but not a new series, right? still a 10th generation cpu? intel will have committed all of the code needed to support those at once |
| 17:45.25 | TaZeR | ive just been testing mx's images for a few days to see what all the hype is about |
| 17:45.37 | Caesar_NayKid | The i3 is 10th gen, i went for the i5 which is 11th gen |
| 17:46.11 | Caesar_NayKid | I was considering ClearOS since it's Intel stuff |
| 17:46.22 | Caesar_NayKid | But idk, i want it to be Debian for some reason |
| 17:46.36 | TaZeR | running side by side in VMs with some of debians latest images |
| 17:47.10 | sney | TaZeR: this is free software, having derivatives is not considered bad, it's just part of the ecosystem. and the more people are working on debian-based stuff, the more fixes and improvements eventually make their way back to debian. |
| 17:48.03 | Caesar_NayKid | What would y'all recommend to run Win10 in a VM on Debian? |
| 17:48.24 | sney | Caesar_NayKid: ok still, haven't 11th gen chips been available for quite a while? there shouldn't be any software changes needed for the new model of an existing chip family. |
| 17:48.26 | Caesar_NayKid | VirtualBox ok? |
| 17:48.27 | TaZeR | thats what ive been trying to assess, if mx linux has actaully done anything special to really improve things besides offering customizations of things already available in debian and some extra applications, but i cant really find anything better |
| 17:49.11 | sney | !virtualbox |
| 17:49.11 | dpkg | Oracle VM VirtualBox is <virtualization> software. Not in buster and unlikely to be in any future debian stable releases due to #794466. Unofficial backports are available as well as 3rd party packages from Oracle, see https://wiki.debian.org/VirtualBox to install; we recommend <virt-manager> instead. http://www.virtualbox.org/ #vbox on irc.freenode.net. |
| 17:49.14 | TaZeR | a simple UI upgrade pack could be released and installed on a debian system making it effectively the same, an option for more casual users perhaps, but i know the debian devs arnt interested in that sorta thing |
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| 17:49.54 | Caesar_NayKid | Ok i was watching a vid about virt manager |
| 17:50.24 | sney | I use virt-manager for desktop vm testing stuff, it's fine and simple to use |
| 17:50.44 | Caesar_NayKid | And you tried it on Bullseye? |
| 17:51.03 | aminvakil | virt manager is fine for me too, I run win 10 on it |
| 17:51.09 | aminvakil | I use arch btw |
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| 17:51.23 | Caesar_NayKid | I just learned what arch is last week haha |
| 17:51.57 | Caesar_NayKid | Sounds like i will end up trying to install Bullseye test with virt manager |
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| 17:52.20 | jmcnaught | TaZeR: one difference I would wonder about is how well MX keeps up with security updates, and do they make that information publicly available? Anyways, derivatives are off-topic in #debian, maybe you want to discuss them in #debian-offtopic. |
| 17:53.16 | TaZeR | yes good idea i will research that area as well |
| 17:53.42 | Caesar_NayKid | When Bullseye moves to stable can i just like apt-update everything at the console or will i have to reinstall somehow |
| 17:53.45 | NetTerminalGene | guys, i got libwebkigtk and 4 of them or something as far as i remember two days ago but it is still not on https://www.debian.org/security/ |
| 17:54.12 | NetTerminalGene | i don't remember the update's names but something like webkit |
| 17:54.24 | aminvakil | bullseye will become stable eventually and you'll be fine |
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| 17:54.31 | jhutchins | Caesar_NayKid: Debian has an excellent history of being able to upgrade in place. |
| 17:54.38 | aminvakil | You don't need to change anything |
| 17:54.53 | ratrace | NetTerminalGene: DSA-4877-1 |
| 17:55.27 | Caesar_NayKid | What's the most stable desktop gui for Debian |
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| 17:55.36 | ratrace | Caesar_NayKid: define "most stable" |
| 17:55.38 | aminvakil | right now buster is stable |
| 17:55.39 | jhutchins | aminvakil: That's actually not quite true, you want to read the release notes and any errata, and do the uprade manually so that you can catch any glitches. |
| 17:56.13 | aminvakil | jhutchins: Caesar_NayKid was asking if they are going to install bullseye, when bullseye became stable, are they need to do anything or not |
| 17:56.21 | aminvakil | not upgrading from buster to bullseye |
| 17:56.24 | ratrace | NetTerminalGene: and this: https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/source-package/webkit2gtk |
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| 17:57.00 | Caesar_NayKid | I mean, if i can get Buster working the way i want i may never update |
| 17:57.01 | sney | Caesar_NayKid: debian doesn't distribute anything that is not considered stable. but I'd say gnome3, kde plasma, and xfce4 have the most complete desktop experience without having to do a lot of setup and tinkering, if that's what you mean. |
| 17:57.04 | Caesar_NayKid | For this build |
| 17:57.09 | jhutchins | Caesar_NayKid: We don't see many stability problems with DEs these days. |
| 17:57.37 | NetTerminalGene | Caesar_NayKid: gnome is pretty stable |
| 17:57.40 | ratrace | NetTerminalGene: https://lists.debian.org/debian-security-announce/2021/msg00058.html |
| 17:58.24 | Caesar_NayKid | Yeah i was thinking to go gnome. I've seen some people mentioning maybe it's called Cinnamon? |
| 17:58.31 | aminvakil | Cinnamon is another DE |
| 17:58.50 | NetTerminalGene | does debian have cinnamon? |
| 17:59.09 | aminvakil | gnome is default on ubuntu, fedora and centos(rip), it's used mostly, that does not mean it's the most stable DE |
| 17:59.47 | aminvakil | NetTerminalGene: https://wiki.debian.org/DesktopEnvironment#Desktop_Environment |
| 17:59.48 | sney | ,i task-cinnamon-desktop |
| 17:59.50 | judd | Package task-cinnamon-desktop (tasks, optional) in buster/amd64: Cinnamon. Version: 3.53; Size: 0.9k; Installed: 6k |
| 17:59.52 | Caesar_NayKid | Gotta walk my dog. Might be back in 30 or so.. if you all aren't around thanks for answering so many questions. This has been a great irc chat so far |
| 18:00.01 | ratrace | still waiting for definition of "most stable" |
| 18:00.45 | NetTerminalGene | ratrace: we understood what it is but we won't tell you |
| 18:00.48 | ratrace | and by some definitions, gnome is leas stable with every release removing chunks of functionality, extensions breaking or not working properly, etc... |
| 18:00.50 | aminvakil | i would define stable as not changing, not the one that does not break |
| 18:01.04 | aminvakil | ratrace: exactly! |
| 18:01.44 | ratrace | but for the lifetime of a release in debian, it doesn't change. the extensions might be entirely different story. |
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| 18:02.46 | aminvakil | ,v gnome |
| 18:02.48 | judd | Package: gnome on amd64 -- jessie: 1:3.14+3; stretch: 1:3.22+3; buster: 1:3.30+1; bullseye: 1:3.38+3; sid: 1:3.38+3 |
| 18:03.28 | aminvakil | i guess some stuff from gnome will probably break upgrading from buster (3.30) to bullseye (3.38) |
| 18:03.52 | NetTerminalGene | :O |
| 18:04.02 | NetTerminalGene | i hope not |
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| 18:05.51 | jelly | aminvakil, gnome always changes and breaks little things |
| 18:05.56 | jelly | over upgrades |
| 18:06.20 | aminvakil | NetTerminalGene: ^ |
| 18:06.32 | jelly | if you have installed any extensions from their internet site, those usually have to be updated separately |
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| 18:07.45 | jelly | and sometimes an extension is never updated for current gnome. I've switched at least two 2D-grid-workspaces extensions for Gnome (not on Debian tho) |
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| 18:08.39 | ratrace | "sometimes" :) |
| 18:08.56 | jelly | well sometimes it does get an update |
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| 18:14.23 | NetTerminalGene | i just only encountered season closed by itself on gnome. i am not sure if it was gnome thing though |
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| 18:21.37 | hiya | Debian Testing is officially supported here? |
| 18:21.59 | SponiX | hiya: not according to the /topic |
| 18:22.12 | ratrace | !debian-next |
| 18:22.12 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc |
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| 18:23.49 | CyberManifest | it's a conspiracy, there's a freenode #debian-next but it's invite only :P |
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| 18:26.51 | oxek | CyberManifest: that's on purprose |
| 18:27.07 | CyberManifest | that's what I said a conspiracy |
| 18:27.26 | oxek | I think we have differnt interpretations of the word 'conspiracy' |
| 18:27.39 | jmcnaught | !oftc move |
| 18:27.39 | dpkg | irc.debian.org moved to OFTC on June 4th 2006, see http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/05/msg00012.html. Operators and bots (see <fact sharing>) will remain on both networks for the foreseeable future; you're welcome to either move to OFTC with i.d.o or stay on freenode. Questions? Ask in #debian on one or other network. See also http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2006/04/msg00333.html |
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| 18:29.38 | Caesar_NayKid | Wzup again |
| 18:30.12 | Caesar_NayKid | Is everyone here running Bullseye? |
| 18:30.26 | dvs | !debian-next |
| 18:30.26 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc |
| 18:31.07 | Caesar_NayKid | Gotcha so this one is all about stable |
| 18:31.46 | Caesar_NayKid | So Buster can have problems with nvme drives? |
| 18:32.17 | Caesar_NayKid | Is there somewhere that has a giant list of hardware known to work on different versions of Debian? |
| 18:32.46 | ratrace | Caesar_NayKid: not that I know of. the linux source code keeps track of .... badly behaving SSDs tho, in the commends. lemme find that for you |
| 18:32.59 | ratrace | https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/drivers/ata/libata-core.c |
| 18:33.41 | ratrace | Caesar_NayKid: and yes, I've had issues with NVMe SSDs on buster, resolved with upgrade to the backports kernel |
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| 18:34.37 | SponiX | ratrace: what issues did you have with 4.19 ? |
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| 18:35.18 | Caesar_NayKid | Backports kernel |
| 18:35.26 | Caesar_NayKid | I will have to look that one upekkha |
| 18:35.37 | Caesar_NayKid | Whoa |
| 18:35.46 | Caesar_NayKid | -ekkha whatever that is |
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| 18:36.10 | Caesar_NayKid | Is it name tags? |
| 18:36.37 | oxek | what? |
| 18:36.59 | Caesar_NayKid | This irc app is trying to autocomplete people's handles |
| 18:37.09 | Caesar_NayKid | Ignore that |
| 18:37.19 | aminvakil | jelly: me too, i ended up using https://github.com/mzur/gnome-shell-wsmatrix until gnome 3.38, i'm not sure that's working on 3.40 still or not, i switched to kde about an year ago |
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| 18:38.00 | Caesar_NayKid | Would you say it easy to uninstall one desktop and switch to another? |
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| 18:38.18 | Caesar_NayKid | Or can you even have multiple desktops installed? |
| 18:38.34 | oxek | Caesar_NayKid: you can have multiple, and it is somewhat easy to uninstall one and have another |
| 18:38.46 | oxek | usually you first need to install the other desktop before uninstalling the first one |
| 18:39.02 | Caesar_NayKid | Can it cause stability problems to have a bunch of desktops? |
| 18:39.49 | Caesar_NayKid | Probably anything could cause an instability so dumb question i guess |
| 18:40.05 | aminvakil | as i've said i switched from gnome to kde, and i did see some problems which wasn't there when i reinstalled the operating system for another reason |
| 18:40.15 | aminvakil | (i'm using another os though) |
| 18:40.39 | Caesar_NayKid | What's the community preferred way to remote access your Debian install |
| 18:40.55 | aminvakil | ssh ? |
| 18:41.13 | aminvakil | your graphic environment you mean? vnc then |
| 18:41.19 | Caesar_NayKid | I figured that might be it. |
| 18:42.25 | Caesar_NayKid | Ok thanks. I'll probably be back when i get to installing |
| 18:43.32 | Caesar_NayKid | Anyone have a setup guide that you like to recommend? |
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| 18:44.23 | Caesar_NayKid | Install i guess i should say. I've been watching some vids |
| 18:45.01 | Caesar_NayKid | Looks pretty straightforward. But maybe there is some recommended things to install or configure after a debian setup |
| 18:45.32 | Caesar_NayKid | Im mainly going to do a samba share to start |
| 18:46.14 | Caesar_NayKid | Would like to investigate setting up a print server possibly and maybe an active directory alternative |
| 18:46.21 | jmcnaught | Caesar_NayKid: https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/installmanual |
| 18:46.32 | TheSilentLink | Hi I have 3 systems all with unattended-upgrades installed. Seems to be a default package. 1 of them updated and 2 of them didn't anyone know why? |
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| 18:48.50 | Caesar_NayKid | I was going to install a separate physical hard drive for my vm.. is there anything special i need to do in Debian before going into virt manager and stuff? |
| 18:51.58 | oxek | TheSilentLink: maybe it's staggered update |
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| 19:06.51 | filePeter | Hi, is there a (gtk-)tool that I can call, that shows me a file picker UI with thumbnails, that returns the selected filenames to the commandline? |
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| 19:22.01 | Caesar_NayKid | Anyone know a chat that focuses on running VMs? |
| 19:22.29 | Caesar_NayKid | my question might be out of scope for Debian |
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| 19:22.54 | SponiX | Caesar_NayKid: ask it and see |
| 19:22.57 | sney | Caesar_NayKid: there's #kvm, for the technology that virt-manager (among others) uses. but for your question, there is nothing special you should need to do in order to use a separate disk for a vm guest |
| 19:24.23 | oxek | Caesar_NayKid: if it's on linux, then ##linux |
| 19:24.37 | Caesar_NayKid | Well this question is about ip addresses i guess, if my Debian install grabs an IP in the nic with that mac address then i set up a Win10 VM in virt manager how do i avoid a router trying to hand out the same ip address to that PC |
| 19:24.56 | Caesar_NayKid | Or even if i manually configure the ips |
| 19:25.11 | sney | the vm guest will have its own virtual mac address |
| 19:25.20 | Caesar_NayKid | Really |
| 19:25.22 | oxek | yes |
| 19:25.29 | Caesar_NayKid | Interesting |
| 19:25.39 | Caesar_NayKid | That's helpful then |
| 19:27.58 | Caesar_NayKid | i tried to setup Hyper-V on my Win10 Pro laptop so i could try and install debian on a VM the other day but when i shared the network card to the VM it disconnected my laptop from the network. Is that easier to set up for virt manager in Debian? |
| 19:28.35 | Caesar_NayKid | If I can't get the VM to work then this machine will just be a dedicated Debian server |
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| 19:29.13 | sney | yes, virtual machine networking is pretty straightforward with virt-manager. it supports a few different options, and should never disconnect the adapter that you're trying to share with the guests. |
| 19:29.37 | sney | again, it will be much more clear once you actually have the computer and can try stuff. |
| 19:29.38 | Caesar_NayKid | cool. |
| 19:29.58 | Caesar_NayKid | Yeah i know.. im just pumped up to try something new |
| 19:30.19 | Caesar_NayKid | Trying to get ahead a little as much as possible |
| 19:30.43 | sney | !handbook |
| 19:30.43 | dpkg | The Debian Administrator's Handbook is at http://debian-handbook.info/ and can be browsed, bought and downloaded. From Debian 7 "Wheezy" onwards, it can also be installed from the debian-handbook package. Also ask me about <books> <docs>. PDF at https://debian-handbook.info/download/stable/debian-handbook.pdf |
| 19:30.48 | sney | lots of good info here ^ |
| 19:30.57 | Caesar_NayKid | So should I install Debian to my primary drive and not even install the alt drive during the install? |
| 19:31.27 | sney | the debian installer is not like windows, it will ignore any connected disks that you don't tell it to use. |
| 19:31.34 | dvs | Caesar_NayKid: it's much easier to install Debian to its own drive |
| 19:32.22 | oxek | on home machines, I always leave just one drive connected during installation, so that I am absolutely certain that I can't overwrite something I don't want to |
| 19:32.22 | Caesar_NayKid | Should i just install everything on one drive including the /home and all that stuff for ease? |
| 19:33.05 | dvs | Caesar_NayKid: it's easier to install everyting onto one DRIVE, how many partitions is another matter. |
| 19:33.23 | Caesar_NayKid | Oh right I'm following you there |
| 19:33.39 | Caesar_NayKid | Partitions is probably a preference yeah |
| 19:33.43 | SponiX | Caesar_NayKid: telling the installer to use the "whole drive" ( making sure to point to the correct one ) and letting it take care of the rest -- is the "easiest" method IMHO |
| 19:34.11 | dvs | oh but the installer uses lvm , doesn't it? |
| 19:34.21 | Caesar_NayKid | Yeah that pointing to the right one i was thinking to leave the second drive out for now |
| 19:34.24 | SponiX | dvs: not unless you tell it to |
| 19:34.41 | Caesar_NayKid | What's lvm |
| 19:34.54 | dvs | !lvm |
| 19:34.54 | dpkg | [lvm] the Linux Logical Volume Manager (http://sources.redhat.com/lvm2/). Resources: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/, <lvm_tutorial>, <lvm removedisk>, <lvm movelv>, <install using lvm>, http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/410, http://sources.redhat.com/lvm2/wiki/ IRC: #lvm on irc.freenode.net. |
| 19:34.59 | Caesar_NayKid | Gotcha |
| 19:35.39 | Caesar_NayKid | This system will primarily host a shared folder for about 6 PCs to access |
| 19:36.13 | Caesar_NayKid | Nothing crazy there. Im hoping to run a VM also just to keep from having a separate PC |
| 19:36.25 | Caesar_NayKid | For another task |
| 19:37.08 | Caesar_NayKid | Hosting a quickbooks network file. Apparently Windows is like the preferred method |
| 19:37.30 | Caesar_NayKid | Kinda annoying I'd rather just use only the Debian |
| 19:37.58 | Caesar_NayKid | Regardless I'll start with the handbook thanks |
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| 19:40.03 | Caesar_NayKid | I think Linux users want to see Linux become more popular and I would guess Debian users would like to see Debian continue to grow in popularity also |
| 19:40.46 | dvs | Meh |
| 19:40.47 | Caesar_NayKid | It all a big new world to me and tons of distros recommended |
| 19:41.11 | dvs | I think it's more important to have Debian working well than to have it be popular. |
| 19:41.17 | Caesar_NayKid | Like Freenas and CentOS seem like popular recommendations for what im doing |
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| 19:41.41 | Caesar_NayKid | But idk sounds like so many distros are originated from Debian |
| 19:43.37 | Caesar_NayKid | dvs: fair point. I just want something simple that works and is stable |
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| 19:44.54 | dvs | Well, Debian is stable alright. But simple, there are others that are more simple. |
| 19:44.54 | Caesar_NayKid | What's a good backup application for Debian |
| 19:46.52 | Caesar_NayKid | Is there a free Debian program that can make a daily image of a partition? |
| 19:47.06 | oxek | Caesar_NayKid: I like freefilesync, but it's not in debian repos. Many like rsync (I use it too, for different purposes). |
| 19:47.26 | oxek | there's always `dd` for images of partitions |
| 19:47.38 | sney | lvm (along with zfs and btrfs) can take snapshots of your data, which may be what you're really after |
| 19:47.46 | Caesar_NayKid | Freefilesync sounds like something i used on a windows pc that compared drives for changes |
| 19:47.58 | oxek | Caesar_NayKid: that's pretty much it |
| 19:48.08 | Caesar_NayKid | I was interested to ask about btrfs |
| 19:48.15 | sney | partclone is a tool that can copy an entire partition, but not intended for use with a running system |
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| 19:50.42 | Caesar_NayKid | I will actually likely run that freefilesync on the Win10 VM with task scheduler every night to backup this Debian shared folder to a Onedrive folder on an external drive |
| 19:51.28 | Caesar_NayKid | Mainly because that's how i do it now but i was interested to see what native backup tools Debian offers that might be superior to all that |
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| 19:52.26 | Caesar_NayKid | So maybe I'll see what rsync is all about thanks oxek |
| 19:52.34 | Caesar_NayKid | And 'dd' |
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| 19:53.58 | aminvakil | don't use dd |
| 19:54.19 | Caesar_NayKid | Is it DDookie? |
| 19:54.22 | aminvakil | It's pretty dangerous |
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| 19:55.01 | Mister00X | dd also called the Disk Destroyer |
| 19:56.34 | Caesar_NayKid | So: currently im thinking: install debian Bullseye on my Samsung Pro nvme. After it's running I'll power down install my second SSD. Install virt manager. Install win10 on the vm |
| 19:56.52 | Caesar_NayKid | On the 2nd drive |
| 19:58.04 | Caesar_NayKid | Is btrfs good to use for the install? |
| 19:58.24 | dvs | no |
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| 19:58.40 | Caesar_NayKid | Or like, ext4 for the install but btrfs for /home partition? |
| 19:58.44 | aminvakil | dvs: why not? |
| 19:58.49 | dvs | then again, I just use ext4. |
| 19:58.56 | sney | btrfs is fine now as long as you don't use the built-in raid5/6 features |
| 19:59.03 | sney | it used to eat data, but that was years ago |
| 19:59.16 | aminvakil | i don't use brtfs myself, i use ext4 almost everywhere except centos machines which i use xfs as it is the default |
| 19:59.32 | aminvakil | dvs: but why don't you recommend btrfs for a new installation? |
| 20:00.25 | dvs | aminvakil: I use external tools to handle my partitions sometimes. |
| 20:00.45 | nkuttler | aminvakil: btrfs still has nasty problems, like running out of space for metadata |
| 20:00.48 | Caesar_NayKid | Hmm |
| 20:01.20 | aminvakil | nkuttler: aha, do you have a bug report or a link to share? |
| 20:01.37 | nkuttler | aminvakil: no |
| 20:01.38 | aminvakil | dvs: i can't see how is that relevant? some external tools do not support btrfs yet? |
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| 20:02.09 | dvs | external to linux, yes. |
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| 20:03.29 | Caesar_NayKid | So what everyone still would just say go ext4? |
| 20:03.49 | dvs | it's up to you |
| 20:04.07 | ratrace | the advantages of btrfs outweigh the disadvantages, imho. if you're aware of the issues, you can use btrfs just fine |
| 20:04.09 | rudi_s | I like ext4 |
| 20:04.17 | rudi_s | It works. Period. |
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| 20:04.27 | dvs | same |
| 20:04.29 | ratrace | I use it in production, along with zfs in different roles. there _are_ gotchas, but they're worth the time |
| 20:04.52 | ratrace | ext4 works, yes. it offers no data integrity guarantees tho. |
| 20:04.58 | rudi_s | (Sure, snaphots in btrfs and zfs are nice. But at least for me they are not so useful so I can live without them.) |
| 20:05.00 | aminvakil | rudi_s: me too, i just wanted to hear its disadvantages |
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| 20:05.40 | rudi_s | Ah, yeah, and integrity. That's one thing that annoys me a little. But for long term storage I just use sha512sum and redundant backups and most of my short-term storage is git or git-annex anyway. |
| 20:05.41 | ratrace | the biggest disadvantage, that was mentioned, is don't run it 100% full. |
| 20:05.45 | Caesar_NayKid | Anyone got a good link on btrfs and avoiding "issues"? |
| 20:05.59 | ratrace | Caesar_NayKid: folks in #btrfs will have those |
| 20:06.05 | Caesar_NayKid | Thanks |
| 20:06.11 | rudi_s | Don't use raid |
| 20:06.14 | rudi_s | *btrfs raid |
| 20:06.15 | Caesar_NayKid | I joined |
| 20:06.20 | ratrace | I got this bookmark'd https://lore.kernel.org/linux-btrfs/20200627032414.GX10769@hungrycats.org/ |
| 20:06.25 | Caesar_NayKid | No plans to use raidghost |
| 20:06.28 | Caesar_NayKid | Ugh |
| 20:06.32 | ratrace | RAID1 in btrfs is just fine |
| 20:06.39 | rudi_s | Lol |
| 20:06.40 | Caesar_NayKid | Sorry this app wants to tag people. |
| 20:07.00 | rudi_s | The first line "Here are some guidelines for users running btrfs raid5 arrays to survive single-disk failures without losing all the data." |
| 20:07.22 | ratrace | yes, raid5/6 is still a sore spot for btrfs |
| 20:07.34 | rudi_s | How can anybody take a file system seriously after reading that ... |
| 20:07.48 | Caesar_NayKid | No plans for raid on this system |
| 20:08.15 | aminvakil | Caesar_NayKid: use ext4 which is default, you won't see any issue. |
| 20:08.31 | rudi_s | Anyway, mabye I'm biased. I was using btrfs once (for the snapshots) and it took a few days and it froze my system and I had to reboot. Lost a few snasphots, nothing major, but that was it for me. That was maybe 2 years ago. |
| 20:08.36 | ratrace | yes, you won't see any issue. ext4 is oblivious to data corruption. |
| 20:09.12 | rudi_s | At least the disk is losing the data and not the file system ;-) |
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| 20:09.35 | ratrace | rudi_s: yes, unless you run fresh new major release kernels :) |
| 20:09.42 | Caesar_NayKid | Wow. Now im thinking i need to go backup my Ext4 home server shared folder |
| 20:09.47 | ratrace | last few LTS releases surely got a few data eating bugs. ext4, mq, ... |
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| 20:10.36 | rudi_s | Sure, bugs happen. |
| 20:10.57 | rudi_s | Having backups is always a good idea, no matter the file system. |
| 20:11.34 | Caesar_NayKid | So to use virt-manager i need Qemu? |
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| 20:11.54 | ratrace | virt manager is just frontend to qemu-kvm |
| 20:11.56 | Caesar_NayKid | I just saw some YouTube results |
| 20:12.05 | sney | when you install virt-manager, qemu will be installed automatically |
| 20:12.12 | Caesar_NayKid | Ok great |
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| 20:12.41 | aminvakil | Caesar_NayKid: https://wiki.debian.org/KVM#Installation |
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| 20:13.31 | Caesar_NayKid | Oh hmm.. now i got more reading to do. I thought KVM was a desktop gui haha |
| 20:13.50 | Caesar_NayKid | #n00bAlert |
| 20:14.13 | Caesar_NayKid | Oops i guess that's an irc chat name with hashtags |
| 20:14.27 | Caesar_NayKid | I haven't used irc since like 1991 |
| 20:16.35 | aminvakil | nkuttler: could you please take a look at this link? https://www.reddit.com/r/btrfs/comments/852n9m/all_available_space_taken_up_by_metadata/ | is this what you were talking about? |
| 20:17.08 | MrPickles | help: i have separate partition for /home /var /tmp /boot ... now i am installing actually reinstalling debian form linux mint which partition should i format |
| 20:17.09 | rudi_s | Caesar_NayKid: virt-manager is the client GUI |
| 20:17.26 | nkuttler | aminvakil: looks related, yeah |
| 20:17.27 | ratrace | aminvakil: yes, if metadata blocks get full, the fs goes belly up |
| 20:17.49 | nkuttler | last time i had this happen i decided to reinstall after an hour or so.. |
| 20:17.51 | rudi_s | And it has no (hard) dependency on libvirt, only a recommends. |
| 20:18.14 | jhutchins | MrPickles: mint != debian |
| 20:19.31 | MrPickles | jhutchins: i am reintalling debian there was some prob in mint dbus break |
| 20:19.58 | aminvakil | nkuttler: i won't blame the filesystem if the user does not remove its snapshots... |
| 20:19.59 | MrPickles | jhutchins: while autoremove |
| 20:20.16 | aminvakil | but i wouldn't use it if i don't want it to have less headache |
| 20:20.51 | aminvakil | MrPickles: format your /var and /boot and /tmp, you can use your /home from mint to debian, others should be removed prior to new installation |
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| 20:21.14 | nkuttler | aminvakil: we never used snapshots.. |
| 20:21.16 | aminvakil | WARNING: this will break your mint |
| 20:22.13 | line17 | hi. i want to clone my encrypted disk to a new larger ssd. i found this (https://askubuntu.com/questions/761763/cloning-encrypted-ssd-to-larger-ssd) thread but there is no expand commands in there. any tip? |
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| 20:24.56 | ratrace | line17: you can use the faster method |
| 20:24.58 | rudi_s | line17: What partitions are you currently using? The regular /dev/sda1 -> /boot, /dev/sda2 -> luks (maybe with /boot/EFI) as well? |
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| 20:26.03 | ratrace | line17: personally, I would partition and luksformat the new disk, unlock teh container and rsync filesystems between them |
| 20:26.11 | line17 | rudi_s, https://bpa.st/FYCQ |
| 20:26.13 | rudi_s | Why should you recreate the luks partition? Just cat/dd everything on the new SSD, increase the LUKS partition size (delete and create with larger size, make sure it has the same start sectors!) and then you're done. |
| 20:26.45 | rudi_s | LUKS automatically adapts its size. You can even do this on a running system (if you have RAID for example and swap the disks with larger ones). |
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| 20:27.07 | rudi_s | line17: lsblk please |
| 20:27.32 | ratrace | just a word of warning with luks if you use 4k block size luks2, the underlying partition must be resized into a factor of 4k |
| 20:27.55 | rudi_s | But looks like the regular setup. I've never used an encrypted boot, but it shouldn't change anything. |
| 20:28.20 | line17 | rudi_s, https://bpa.st/A2GQ |
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| 20:30.45 | rudi_s | line17: Yeah. Just cat/dd everything to the new disk, then resize partition sda5 (e.g. with fdisk) by deleting it and recreating it in the same place but with a larger size (make sure the starting sectors match!). Then resize the PV with pvresize and you should be done. |
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| 20:32.56 | rudi_s | You can also do everything after the cat/dd in the new running system if you like. |
| 20:33.02 | line17 | rudi_s, to be honest i can't do resize partitions job. and other stuff like deleting, recreating with larger size and make sure the starting sectors, and resize the PV... |
| 20:33.16 | rudi_s | (You might have to force the kernel to reload the partition table though.) |
| 20:33.50 | rudi_s | Why not? It's quite easy and you have a backup (the old ssd) so you cannot screw up too much. To be really safe remove the old disk from your computer so you cannot touch it accidentally. |
| 20:34.21 | aminvakil | line17: why don't you create a new luks partition, create partitions on top of it, make filesystem on it and copy data from your old disk to new one as ratrace suggested? |
| 20:34.33 | rudi_s | It's basically just fdisk /dev/sda then p to print the partitions then d to delete the last one, then c to create it again, then look at the old values to give the proper start sector and then p again to verify everything matches, then w. |
| 20:35.01 | rudi_s | aminvakil: Why should you? It's more work and less to learn ;-) |
| 20:35.41 | aminvakil | rudi_s: it's safer :) |
| 20:36.14 | rudi_s | aminvakil: Well, if you have the old disk ... |
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| 20:36.30 | rudi_s | Remove the old one and it's even safer because you cannot partition the wrong disk. |
| 20:36.37 | rudi_s | (Of course you could while you copy it ...) |
| 20:36.59 | line17 | rudi_s, what do you mean by be careful starting sector? |
| 20:37.07 | line17 | i couldn't figure out that part |
| 20:37.22 | rudi_s | line17: The new partition must have the same starting sector as the old one. |
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| 20:37.34 | line17 | and what is pvresize? |
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| 20:38.16 | rudi_s | You are only changing the partition table which basically contains pointers into the real disk. When you recreate the partition the pointer must point to the same place because you didn't move your data. You just told the partition that it's now larger. |
| 20:38.18 | line17 | rudi_s, when i will use starting sector? i mean in which part |
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| 20:39.48 | line17 | rudi_s, can you make a paste file for me and other newbies? |
| 20:39.51 | rudi_s | man pvresize, it resizes physical volumes. In your case sda5_crypt is a physical volume used by LVM. LVM is another kind of partition table (among other things). "root" and "swap" (two LV or logical volumes) are partitions in your "debian" VG (or volume group) which uses the sda5_crypt as physical volume. |
| 20:39.54 | line17 | i really confused :D |
| 20:39.59 | rudi_s | line17: When you use fdisk. |
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| 20:40.46 | line17 | this job is going to a more complex for me xD |
| 20:41.08 | rudi_s | Well, I told you the commands above. In theory I could provide the exact commands but that's dangerous because any mistake or misunderstanding of your setup could break it. So I can help with the setup but you'll have to figure the commands. |
| 20:41.40 | rudi_s | You can always just partition the new disk and start from scratch. But that's not really easier because you'll have to setup LUKS, PVs, VGs and LVs anyway. |
| 20:42.06 | rudi_s | I would consider it a chance to learn how LUKS and LVM really works on your system. You're already using them anway. |
| 20:42.14 | MrPickles | it may help https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/sect.installation-steps.html |
| 20:44.41 | line17 | rudi_s, ok |
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| 20:58.30 | dob1 | it's a bad idea to use squashfs to archive some data as read-only? |
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| 21:01.11 | rudi_s | Why would use squashfs for that? |
| 21:01.28 | ratrace | dob1: nothing particularly bad about it |
| 21:02.17 | dob1 | ratrace, my concern is about the alternatives, a 7z/xz archive are better? |
| 21:02.35 | ratrace | dob1: better for what purpose precisely? |
| 21:03.01 | dob1 | ratrace, I want to archive some data, to save space, I will not modify it in the future |
| 21:03.03 | ratrace | squashfs is interesting if oyu want a mountable, browsable, compessed filesystem. a 7z/xz archive is just a file, you can't mount it as a fs |
| 21:03.09 | ratrace | the use cases are different |
| 21:03.34 | ratrace | dob1: I'd tarball it then. |
| 21:04.23 | dob1 | ratrace, but as you said the squashfs permit to mount it and access the data (readonly but that's ok) |
| 21:04.32 | rudi_s | There's always FUSE |
| 21:05.05 | dob1 | a tar.xz is better as compression than squashfs ? |
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| 21:06.55 | ratrace | dob1: it depends on what kind of data it is and what kind of access you want. if you want compressed mountable _filesystem_ you can carry around in a file, then squashfs is suitable. if you just want to package up a bunch of files, you can tarball them. you can still extract individual files from a tarball. |
| 21:07.38 | ratrace | dob1: a .tar can be compressed with any algo. xz, gzip, zstd, ... I don't know what squashfs uses |
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| 21:08.25 | rudi_s | *and mount the archive with FUSE |
| 21:08.41 | EmleyMoor | ... even feather if you can find one called that <g> |
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| 21:12.04 | tga | greetings. anyone here managed to mount an iphone/ipad on debian 10? |
| 21:15.21 | dob1 | thanks all for the advices, I will decide for one or the other solution |
| 21:15.55 | ratrace | tga: I don't iphone. but I'd look into using jmtpfs for MTP access, like I do for android. if I used a desktop like gnome, I'd check if gvfs can mount it JustLikeThat(tm) |
| 21:17.19 | tga | ratrace: it's more complicated than that, at least on kde it doesn't Just Work, I managed to connect to it with ifuse but not seeing all the files |
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| 21:42.22 | aivkiv | Hello, I've just tried network installer for 10.9Â ant I've found weird change. After locale change I am limited to that locales timezones. Before I was able to get US as locale and get my local time, now I only see US timezone options. Suggestion is to go back ant pick another locale, but then installers language changes as well. it's ARM64 is it the same in AMD64? |
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| 21:46.16 | jhutchins | aivkiv: I'd just run the install through then go back and set the timezone. |
| 21:47.14 | aivkiv | @jhutchins I understand thats an easy change to make after install, it just weird that it changed in that way |
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| 21:48.18 | jhutchins | aivkiv: Linking it is probably simpler than having separate setting tables for each one, and the installer has to make some compromises. |
| 21:53.14 | maxf | Hi. On my debian server, I just did 'apt update && apt upgrade' and libssl1.1 and openssl got downgraded. Both packages have the version number '1.1.1d-0+deb10u6' now (according to 'aptitude show libssl1.1 openssl|grep Version'). Is everything correct ? |
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| 21:55.02 | maxf | (this is my sources.list : https://paste.debian.net/1191431/ , used to contain non-free and contrib) |
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| 21:55.37 | line17 | rudi_s, which format i will make for the bigger SSD? now i checked on my current partition and i am seeing lvm2 |
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| 21:57.07 | karlpinc | line17: You can do "pvs" and see how much free space you have in your physical volume, and use that to extend your logical volumes. |
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| 21:58.14 | karlpinc | maxf: That's the latest openssl for stable. What makes you think it downgraded? |
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| 21:59.22 | line17 | karlpinc, it is not my question. which format should be new disk? ext2 or ext4? |
| 21:59.40 | oxek | maxf: packages don't get downgraded normally |
| 21:59.49 | oxek | also, you're missing buster-updates repo |
| 21:59.54 | oxek | !buster sources |
| 21:59.57 | oxek | !buster sources.list |
| 21:59.57 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main", and optionally "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <buster/updates> <buster-updates> and "man sources.list". |
| 22:00.07 | karlpinc | line17: Sorry, just jumped in and don't have history. You usually want ext4, but ext2 is fine for a /boot/. |
| 22:00.27 | karlpinc | oxek: buster-updates is optional. |
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| 22:00.52 | oxek | karlpinc: "optional" meaning you're gonna miss out on things like CA certificates, timezone updates, and other "optional" things |
| 22:01.03 | karlpinc | oxek: They show up eventually. |
| 22:01.33 | oxek | unless someone has a strong reason to not include buster-updates, they should include it |
| 22:01.51 | line17 | karlpinc, now i want to clone my current disk to new SSD. i just insert the disk without formatting and use dd command for copying all bytes right? or should i format the drive before formatting? and another question is should i decrypt first (source) HDD before copying with dd? |
| 22:01.57 | karlpinc | oxek: It also puts you marginally closer to the bleeding edge. If you _really_ want stable-ness then you omit *-updates. I've only ever had a problem once in 10 or 20 years, but.... |
| 22:02.15 | oxek | might as well not include buster-security then |
| 22:02.32 | oxek | and only update on point releases |
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| 22:05.29 | karlpinc | line17: Depends on if you want a bit-for-bit copy or you want to move the data. dd does bit-for-bit. Then, because the new disk is probably a different size, you need to "do stuff" to use the extra space. You probably want to do a logical copy. If you 1) encrypt the new disk with "cryptsetup", then 2) add the (new encryped) disk as physical volume with "pvcreate". You can 3) use lvm to move the data content to the new disks, or |
| 22:05.29 | karlpinc | just make new logical volumes and use "cp" (or rsync) to copy the data. |
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| 22:06.13 | karlpinc | line17: (I don't know your goal.) (And won't be here to answer, probably.) |
| 22:06.44 | line17 | karlpinc, my goal is cloning current all system (disk) to a new SSD. that's all. |
| 22:06.45 | karlpinc | oxek: I've never had a problem with the security repo, but have with *-updates. |
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| 22:07.18 | karlpinc | line17: And you're going to move the new ssd to a different box or...? What is the point of the "clone"? |
| 22:07.21 | oxek | funny, I've had a problem with security repo but not -updates :) |
| 22:07.30 | karlpinc | oxek: :) |
| 22:08.27 | line17 | karlpinc, clone means just cloning a sheep. i want to copy all data (partitions, system, etc.) to new SSD and i won't use old one anymore |
| 22:10.26 | karlpinc | line17: Then use lvm, per above. You don't even need to bring the system down. (But you will also need a boot partition (? I think still, these days?) and will need to install grub on the new ssd. I'm not really up on EFI and what that means in terms of copying. (I poke it with a stick when I need to.) |
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| 22:11.59 | rudi_s | line17: Just copy it with cat or dd. Lets say the current disk is /dev/sda (with /dev/sda1, 2, ...) and the new disk is /dev/sdb (should be without or only with a single partition) then you can run cat /dev/sda > /dev/sdb |
| 22:12.02 | karlpinc | line17: So (maybe) three partitions. One for EFI, another for /boot and a third, encrypted, for your LVM physical volume. (But I can't really speak to EFI and what sort of copying is required for that. Someone here knows.) |
| 22:12.20 | rudi_s | But be careful, if you target the wrong disk your data is gone. |
| 22:12.41 | rudi_s | karlpinc: See backlog, line17 wants to clone the disk to move the data to larger SSD. |
| 22:12.52 | karlpinc | rudi_s: Sure, but then, when his new SSD is larger than the old he won't be able to use the extra space. Fussing about will be required. |
| 22:13.05 | rudi_s | karlpinc: Yes, also see backlog. |
| 22:13.16 | karlpinc | would prefer to have a single pv per physical drive. |
| 22:13.25 | rudi_s | karlpinc: That's the plan. |
| 22:13.40 | tga | did anyone here manage to mount an iphone/ipad? |
| 22:13.45 | rudi_s | And important if you use LUKS because otherwise booting becomes "interesting". |
| 22:14.18 | oxek | tga: does it use MTP? |
| 22:15.14 | tga | oxek: I'm not sure what it uses, I don't think it's standard mtp |
| 22:15.38 | line17 | rudi_s, is this works for me? https://jotbe.io/blog/2019/03/how-to-clone-a-luks-encrypted-hhd-to-a-larger-ssd/ |
| 22:17.37 | rudi_s | line17: Some steps are weird (for example the unlock part) some are inefficient (dd is much slower than plain cat) and some steps are missing because they don't use LVM, but in theory it works like this. |
| 22:18.40 | rudi_s | Btw. you should do this from a live cd or rescue system so you don't have any disk activity during the clone. If you do this from a regular running system you can get data corruption because it can change while the copy is being made. |
| 22:18.54 | line17 | rudi_s, when i bought new SSD i will come here and if you are available i want to make with you step by step. otherwise i think i will destroy my data. is that ok for you? |
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| 22:21.28 | rudi_s | line17: Sure (if I'm online) - but if you precisely state what you're planing to do you should be able to get help from many people here. |
| 22:22.29 | line17 | then will try and see |
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| 22:24.08 | rudi_s | ;-) Btw. I recommend saving/re-reading our conversation and trying to figure out the necessary commands for your setup. This should should help understanding the whole setup and migration plan. |
| 22:25.03 | line17 | rudi_s, appreciated.. really thanks |
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| 22:26.49 | rudi_s | np |
| 22:28.49 | maxf | karlpinc: there was a dpkg warning about those two packages during the apt upgrade |
| 22:29.03 | maxf | dpkg: avertissement: dégradation (« downgrade ») de openssl depuis 1.1.1j-1+0~20210301.25+debian10~1.gbp2578a0 vers 1.1.1d-0+deb10u6 |
| 22:29.03 | dpkg | maxf: You are person #1 to send an unparseable request |
| 22:30.43 | maxf | for libssl1.1 : libssl1.1:amd64 from 1.1.1j-1+0~20210301.25+debian10~1.gbp2578a0 to 1.1.1d-0+deb10u6 |
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| 22:35.24 | oxek | downgrades aren't normally even allowed |
| 22:35.38 | oxek | what sort of changes have you made to your system? |
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| 22:37.50 | maxf | none |
| 22:39.23 | maxf | But I don't know what my server provider did. A lot of stuff were already installed and configured on it from the begining. |
| 22:40.45 | oxek | that doesn't sound promisin |
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| 22:45.53 | velix | Do you use backports maybe? |
| 22:46.23 | velix | I've seen multiple seems being a bad mix of backports + stable. |
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| 22:47.14 | dvs | a bad mix? The only bad mix I've seen is someone backporting every package they installed from stable |
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| 22:49.29 | themill | that openssl version looks to be from packages.sury.org |
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| 22:49.52 | maxf | themill: yes that maybe it |
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| 22:53.09 | maxf | gpg signature from that repo became suddenly invalid (I didn't change anything) and apt-upgrade warned me it would downgrade openssl and libssl1.1 |
| 22:53.14 | jack2019 | ratrace, are you here? |
| 22:54.20 | maxf | Then I disabled the repo (I do not use php on that server) and the next apt-upgrade didn't ask for validation and downgraded the packages. |
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| 22:54.52 | Caesar_NayKid | Hey hey |
| 22:55.14 | dvs | Krusty! |
| 22:56.34 | Caesar_NayKid | Classic. Krusty the clown. |
| 22:57.47 | jack2019 | maxf, apt-key list for automatic signing key |
| 22:58.17 | themill | maxf: the error message about the key explained that it was expired, not invalid, and the packages.sury.org instructions explained how to update it |
| 22:58.19 | themill | jack2019: no |
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| 22:59.04 | jack2019 | themill, no on what? |
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| 22:59.30 | themill | providing irrelevant and unhelpful advice |
| 23:00.49 | maxf | themill: I just got the message "The following key are not valid [...]" nothing about expiration. |
| 23:01.07 | themill | signature, not key |
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| 23:02.40 | maxf | themill: yes 'signature', not key, my bad |
| 23:03.32 | Caesar_NayKid | Got a question but it might be more of a general linux question than debian specific. I did an install before with a different distro and i think i had installed everything during the install on an nvme m.2 drive and then put my /home spanned on two other sata ssds.. that seemed to work fine. But i guess for this new setup (which will be Debian) I |
| 23:03.33 | Caesar_NayKid | want to keep an SSD separate and dedicated to a VM.. how do i "set it up" properly? So if i install debian on my SSD1 full install and just have it install all the /hone /ext /bin etc all in that drive, When I partition SSD2 what the heck do i do to keep it separate? Im still very new to Linux and Windows minded so im used to dos/windows just |
| 23:03.33 | Caesar_NayKid | creating a partition and then it gets a drive letter and that's how i access them separately.. any quick explanation or a link to somewhere that can help get my head wrapped around this? |
| 23:04.46 | Caesar_NayKid | Or another chat if i should go there, I'll move over to join that |
| 23:07.07 | sney | Caesar_NayKid: all of this is covered in the debian handbook link that you got earlier. IRC support is better for practical, right now stuff, not "what should I do next week/month/year when I actually have the computer" questions |
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| 23:08.46 | Caesar_NayKid | Ok thanks. |
| 23:10.48 | sney | the easiest way to make sure your second disk is used for the vm guest would be to mount it as /var/lib/libvirt. it's possible to use the whole device directly, but afaik not something you can set up with the virt-manager gui. |
| 23:11.35 | sney | in general, where windows would have you do everything 1 way, linux has more options than you can count. and there is no single "best" way to accomplish anything. so, read the manual, and try stuff. |
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| 23:20.45 | jack2019 | sney, I am trying to install a guest kvm via virt install and all ok, until when try to configure the network via dchp or manual. cannot connect to br0. |
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| 23:22.19 | jack2019 | sney, only from iso I can install. |
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| 23:23.07 | sney | jack2019: share pastebins or screenshots of what you're talking about, it's not clear from the description. |
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| 23:32.27 | jack2019 | sney, configure the network: your network is probably not using DHCP protocol |
| 23:33.08 | sney | <sney> jack2019: share pastebins or screenshots |
| 23:34.34 | jack2019 | sney, thank you |
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