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| 00:53.50 | Ooze | What's a reasonable size for /var? When is it too big? Is there anything I can clean? |
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| 00:56.11 | abrotman | Ooze: That depends on system purpose |
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| 01:02.07 | cluelessperson | Ooze, it entirely depends on what you use the system for. /var/ is generally used for storing system level application data. system logs, system service logs, system service data. |
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| 01:09.12 | SponiX | Ooze: my plex meta data is in /var so its like 50GB lol |
| 01:09.24 | SponiX | Ooze: I know you from somewhere ? |
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| 01:11.46 | abrotman | Ooze: If you're unsure, you may want to explore using LVM, and leaving some space |
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| 01:33.20 | Ooze | I extended the lv w/ lvm. Can't shrink my ESXi disks once I grow them though |
| 01:33.35 | Ooze | SponiX: maybe, I'm around |
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| 03:33.15 | asterismo | hi, i just deleted with shift+del a whole folder of an external drive that is encrypted with cryptsetup luks, can i recover it with testdisk? |
| 03:34.25 | SponiX | asterismo: I would say the odds are very slim |
| 03:34.48 | Ede|Popede | would testdisk even see anything else than a blob? |
| 03:34.51 | asterismo | the drive is not being used |
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| 03:35.18 | asterismo | testdisk lists me /dev/sdd, /dev/mapper/... and /dev/dm-3 |
| 03:35.22 | asterismo | all the same drive |
| 03:35.30 | asterismo | which one i choose? |
| 03:36.24 | asterismo | should i desist? |
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| 03:53.01 | SponiX | asterismo: is this the proper time for the speech about backups ? |
| 03:55.31 | asterismo | SponiX, that was the backup |
| 03:55.49 | asterismo | so no, dont lecture me please |
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| 03:56.08 | asterismo | the damn shift+del thing i hawe |
| 03:56.12 | asterismo | have* |
| 03:57.54 | jmcnaught | asterismo: maybe ext4magic will work |
| 03:58.39 | asterismo | jmcnaught, thanks, does it handles encrypted drives? |
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| 03:59.06 | isapgswell | key |
| 03:59.10 | isapgswell | hey |
| 03:59.16 | jmcnaught | asterismo: it works at the filesystem layer, but I've never had to use it myself. |
| 04:00.14 | asterismo | ok |
| 04:00.22 | isapgswell | i changed nvidia prime to performance mode |
| 04:00.31 | isapgswell | and now a lost virtrual terminal |
| 04:00.39 | isapgswell | virtual terminal |
| 04:00.41 | isapgswell | any idea? |
| 04:01.05 | SponiX | isapgswell: change it back ? |
| 04:01.27 | isapgswell | sponix and i lost best performance |
| 04:01.46 | isapgswell | sponix any other idea? |
| 04:02.58 | SponiX | sure, use a gui terminal application instead, they still take command inputs |
| 04:03.40 | isapgswell | sponix gnome-terminal for ex |
| 04:04.00 | SponiX | sure |
| 04:04.05 | SponiX | whatever your favorite is |
| 04:04.16 | isapgswell | sponix do you know what cause this? |
| 04:04.21 | isapgswell | sponix the lost of vt |
| 04:04.28 | SponiX | not at all |
| 04:04.29 | isapgswell | sponix maybe nvidia driver |
| 04:04.36 | SponiX | its possible |
| 04:05.07 | SponiX | I have never owned a dual gpu laptop |
| 04:05.36 | isapgswell | sponix it is difficulty to deal with |
| 04:05.49 | SponiX | I've noticed from others |
| 04:06.05 | isapgswell | sponix windows works great |
| 04:06.17 | isapgswell | sponix but any distro i have used ... |
| 04:07.52 | SponiX | what kernel and nvidia drivers are you using ? |
| 04:10.20 | isapgswell | sponix kernel=5.8.0-45-generic nvidia_driver=460.67 |
| 04:11.21 | isapgswell | sponix my grub=quiet splash acpi_osi=!Linux-Dell-Thunderbolt acpi_osi=Linux acpica_no_return_repair pci=pcie_scan_all,noioapicquirk maxcpus=6 nosmt zswap.enabled=1 zswap.max_pool_percent=20 |
| 04:14.16 | SponiX | isapgswell: that is way too fancy for me. BUT, I think there may be 5.10 kernel in the backports |
| 04:14.25 | SponiX | v linux-image-amd64 |
| 04:14.36 | SponiX | ,v linux-image-amd64 |
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| 04:14.37 | judd | Package: linux-image-amd64 on amd64 -- jessie: 3.16+63+deb8u2; jessie-security: 3.16+63+deb8u7; stretch-security: 4.9+80+deb9u6; stretch: 4.9+80+deb9u11; stretch-backports: 4.19+105+deb10u4~bpo9+1; buster-security: 4.19+105+deb10u9; buster: 4.19+105+deb10u11; buster-backports: 5.10.13-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 5.10.24-1; sid: 5.10.24-1 |
| 04:14.53 | isapgswell | isapgswell how to enable backports? |
| 04:15.01 | isapgswell | sponix how to enable backports? |
| 04:15.15 | SponiX | !backports |
| 04:15.15 | dpkg | A backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications. http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch02.en.html (2.7.4 and 2.7.10), http://backports.debian.org/ . Ask me about <debian-backports> and <backport caveat>. See also <simple sid backport>. |
| 04:16.33 | isapgswell | sponix where can i download debian unstable? |
| 04:16.50 | isapgswell | sponix or testing |
| 04:16.59 | isapgswell | sponix live distro |
| 04:18.08 | SponiX | isapgswell: go to backports.debian.org and read there a bit |
| 04:18.41 | SponiX | isapgswell: you don't need to jump to testing or sid to install a few backports to Buster |
| 04:18.59 | jmcnaught | 5.8.0-45-generic sounds like a Ubuntu kernel to me |
| 04:19.18 | isapgswell | jmcnaught yes |
| 04:19.23 | isapgswell | sponix ok |
| 04:20.07 | SponiX | WTF would he have an Ubuntu kernel on a Debian install ? |
| 04:20.25 | SponiX | jmcnaught: good catch though :) |
| 04:20.32 | isapgswell | sponix who? |
| 04:20.54 | isapgswell | sponix lol the opose sounds good |
| 04:21.13 | isapgswell | sponix debian kernel into ubuntu distro |
| 04:21.34 | SponiX | !frankendebian |
| 04:21.34 | dpkg | When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall> |
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| 06:43.32 | unixbsd | hello |
| 06:43.47 | unixbsd | how to install GTK 1.2 developer (-dev) library in buster? |
| 06:44.03 | unixbsd | or Bulleye, stable or SID.? |
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| 06:45.36 | apollo13 | unixbsd: gtk 1.2? |
| 06:45.52 | nkuttler | that sounds ancient |
| 06:46.00 | apollo13 | 2013 ish |
| 06:46.29 | nkuttler | best bet would probably be to install whatever debian release was out then |
| 06:46.37 | unixbsd | gtk is still being used for some apps. Does glib support gtk 1.2 ? |
| 06:46.55 | apollo13 | unixbsd: yes gtk is used for plenty of apps, but not gtk 1.2 :D |
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| 07:40.17 | martinus__ | I have a question about apt. I upgraded the package 'openssl' with 'apt install openssl' and observed that it doesn't upgrade 'libssl1.1' automatically. It seems that libssl already satisfy the dependency on the new 'openssl' package. But it feels a bit misleading because I guess libssl should be upgraded as well. |
| 07:41.38 | jelly | martinus__, you ought to keep the whole system patched up, not just specific packages |
| 07:41.54 | martinus__ | jelly: ok but that's not an answer ;) |
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| 07:42.31 | jelly | there's no promise all the packages coming from one source will keep each other upgraded. |
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| 07:44.23 | jelly | martinus__, so if you want to keep libssl1.1 patched, keep libssl1.1 patched. |
| 07:46.09 | martinus__ | jelly: well, intuitively, with https://www.debian.org/security/2021/dsa-4875 I could think that upgrading 'openssl' package would be enough. it feels a bit weird that the security fix doesn't have a hard dep to the new dependency but maybe I don't understand all the constraints |
| 07:46.12 | jelly | martinus__, the answer to "how do I keep all bits of openssl patched" is "change your workflow and keep EVERYTHING patched". This may not be what you asked, but it is what your installation very likely needs |
| 07:47.04 | jelly | martinus__, it is unfortunate that "packages" in a DSA really means "source packages" |
| 07:48.15 | jelly | listing all the different binary packages for all the different architectures would probably make the DSA a lot longer |
| 07:48.24 | martinus__ | but extremely more clear |
| 07:48.39 | martinus__ | just by adding something about it |
| 07:48.54 | martinus__ | even the "source" keyword |
| 07:49.58 | martinus__ | but right, it's written "We recommend that you upgrade your openssl packages." |
| 07:50.16 | martinus__ | packages / plural ;) |
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| 07:52.25 | jelly | I completely agree |
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| 08:58.07 | btravis76 | just wondering when is debian releasing gnome 40 on sid |
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| 09:00.45 | flrnd | btravis76: https://packages.debian.org/experimental/gnome/ |
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| 09:02.19 | btravis76 | flrnd : What ISO do I use |
| 09:02.48 | oxek | there's no iso for experimental |
| 09:03.31 | btravis76 | oxek : How to use experimental then |
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| 09:03.57 | ratrace | you don't really. |
| 09:04.09 | ratrace | wait until it trickles down, or ask at: |
| 09:04.11 | ratrace | !debian-next |
| 09:04.11 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc |
| 09:04.20 | oxek | !experimental |
| 09:04.20 | dpkg | experimental is the bleeding edge of Debian Development. Packages here have been deemed unfit/DANGEROUS/untrustworthy/etc for release by the maintainer responsible for them. DO NOT INSTALL PACKAGES FROM EXPERIMENTAL WITHOUT KNOWING EXACTLY WHY AND WHAT YOU ARE DOING. #debian does _not_ support experimental. For an actual description, see section 4.6.4.3 of the Developer's Reference. http://packages.debian.org/experimental/ |
| 09:04.45 | flrnd | btravis76: if you're in a hurry with gnome 40, you'd have better chances with something like Fedora or a rolling distro |
| 09:05.00 | jelly | but is it in experimental because it's horribly broken, or is it there because sid is slushy |
| 09:05.14 | oxek | it's gnome, so it's always horribly broken :p |
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| 09:05.27 | btravis76 | Fedora Sucks LOL |
| 09:05.30 | ratrace | gnome 40 is a whole new paradigm + gtk4 innit? |
| 09:05.37 | ratrace | translation: extra, extra broken? |
| 09:05.52 | jelly | yeah yeah, it's easy to dump on gnome |
| 09:05.57 | TheBigK02 | ratrace: probably. but if u want to find out, u need to try ;) |
| 09:06.05 | ratrace | ewww! :) |
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| 09:06.16 | flrnd | it's not that bad, anyway, #offtopic ? :P |
| 09:06.17 | oxek | jelly: it's only easy to dump on gnome because they've made it so easy |
| 09:06.22 | oxek | yeah, offtopic, sorry |
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| 09:06.28 | btravis76 | Am using Ubuntu 20.04.0.2 or what ever its called |
| 09:06.41 | ratrace | kickban! |
| 09:06.45 | TheBigK02 | :D |
| 09:06.45 | flrnd | haha |
| 09:06.46 | btravis76 | lol |
| 09:06.52 | flrnd | (he's kidding :P) |
| 09:06.56 | btravis76 | dammit |
| 09:06.58 | btravis76 | lol |
| 09:07.00 | ratrace | "he" is |
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| 09:07.17 | btravis76 | Am switching to debian |
| 09:07.22 | btravis76 | don't worry guys |
| 09:07.23 | btravis76 | lol |
| 09:07.24 | flrnd | he/she/ze |
| 09:07.32 | oxek | they |
| 09:07.47 | ratrace | they is actually very stupid and confusing come to think of it. |
| 09:07.48 | oxek | switching to debian, while wanting gnome 40? |
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| 09:07.56 | oxek | that does not sound right |
| 09:07.58 | btravis76 | Am going to run Bulleyes Debian |
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| 09:08.19 | ratrace | in star trek discovery, last season, they (plural) used they (singular) fora a character, and it was confusing, couldn't tell whom they (plural) are talking about. we need a new word. |
| 09:08.28 | btravis76 | oxek: look freaken awsome |
| 09:08.34 | btravis76 | gnome 40 |
| 09:09.11 | btravis76 | but am switching to debain gnome in a little while |
| 09:09.18 | btravis76 | wish me luck |
| 09:09.37 | TheBigK02 | i feel like on desktop i need those half year releases... i like new shiny things :D |
| 09:09.39 | ratrace | switchign to debian to use latest possible software sounds .... terribly, terribly mistaken :) |
| 09:09.53 | TheBigK02 | i can live with a little broken from time to time ;) |
| 09:10.13 | btravis76 | ratrace : Not a nooby lol |
| 09:10.17 | oxek | !sns |
| 09:10.18 | dpkg | Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>. |
| 09:10.26 | btravis76 | Been using linux almost 8 years |
| 09:10.34 | ratrace | unless you mean: I'm gonna switch to debian and wait until the traditional debian's stability policy approves gnome 40 as stable enough for .... Stable. |
| 09:10.54 | btravis76 | ratrace : Nailed it |
| 09:10.56 | ratrace | that's perfectly fine tho. get used to debian and all its awesomeness until 40 trickles down ;) |
| 09:11.34 | oxek | who knows, maybe gtk4 & gnome 40 will be made available only for paying customers under a different license |
| 09:11.39 | oxek | hence not available in debian |
| 09:12.00 | TheBigK02 | but i love debian on servers... cant wait for release.. then i can finally get rid of that apt-pinning i did for some packages... :p |
| 09:12.01 | ratrace | don't give them (Red Hat) ideas! |
| 09:12.19 | flrnd | in my opinion, (and this explains why I like debian) having the latest and greatest is overrated. Sometime is true that having X feature or improvement is nice, but after nearle 2 decades using linux, I just want a system that works, and don't care about having all the shinny toys |
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| 09:13.18 | flrnd | s/nearle/nearly |
| 09:13.19 | TheBigK02 | its not only that... i like to use fancy hardware... for example my sennheiser earbuds wouldnt work if i woudlnt have switched from 20.04 to 20.10 |
| 09:13.28 | ratrace | flrnd: after nearly 2 decades of using linux, I still want to !sns sometimes :) but ye, mostly, especially on servers, I want JustWorks(tm) |
| 09:13.43 | ksk | also, nothing wrong with installing "shiny foo" from upstream most of times, if your company/workflow/esoterics needs it. |
| 09:13.53 | ratrace | true |
| 09:13.58 | TheBigK02 | and also AMD gets quite some tweaks here and there with newer kernel and so on.... |
| 09:14.07 | ksk | (Id not recommend installing latest Gnome from upstream, maybe :D ) |
| 09:14.31 | TheBigK02 | another thing was a bug in KDE which couldnt handle proxy autodiscovery file... there are quite some reasons for me... |
| 09:15.00 | ratrace | there's gnome in snaps right? so one can try without danger of polluting/destroying the rest of the system. just "snap remove" if it doesn't work or breaks too horibly |
| 09:15.13 | btravis76 | wonder if gnome 40 is on debian-live-testing-amd64-gnome+nonfree.iso Date 2021-03-29 08:013.1G |
| 09:15.14 | flrnd | then sid is better alternative as daily driver than stable |
| 09:15.35 | rk4 | reminds me...time to reboot and see how my shiny 5.11 kpkg goes! |
| 09:15.35 | CommunistWolf | sigh |
| 09:15.41 | ratrace | btravis76: nope, that's testing (upcoming Bullseye at the moment) |
| 09:15.46 | ratrace | ,v gnome |
| 09:15.47 | judd | Package: gnome on amd64 -- jessie: 1:3.14+3; stretch: 1:3.22+3; buster: 1:3.30+1; bullseye: 1:3.38+3; sid: 1:3.38+3 |
| 09:16.03 | btravis76 | NOOOOOOOOO |
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| 09:16.05 | btravis76 | lol |
| 09:16.21 | flrnd | with testing in hard freeze, not sure when gnome 40 will enter in sid |
| 09:16.47 | ratrace | summer/autumn 2021 |
| 09:17.16 | TheBigK02 | from the looks ... gnome is to me some weird mix between macos and windows8... but i never used gnome... so ... im probably wrong |
| 09:17.38 | flrnd | as a Mac user, it's a copycat wannabe xD |
| 09:18.04 | ratrace | huh even snaps have 3.38 as latest .... THAT speaks volumes |
| 09:18.44 | btravis76 | Just going to install debian-live-10.9.0-amd64-cinnamon+nonfree.iso |
| 09:19.02 | btravis76 | an wait until I see a video hit on a review of debian gnome 40 |
| 09:19.06 | TheBigK02 | what is ur opinion on snap... for my part... i didnt get used to it yet... i try to avoid it for the most part |
| 09:19.08 | flrnd | I teach design at the university. I've seen "this" behaviour a lot in students trying to reinvent the wheel in the name of being creative. GNOME suffers a lot from that. A few (real) UI/UX designers wouldn't hurt the project |
| 09:19.13 | ratrace | btravis76: some say don't use "live" ISO for installation |
| 09:19.19 | jelly | ratrace, only that Canonical is not crazy enough to try 40 yet, or that packaging needs work |
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| 09:19.37 | btravis76 | Not Cinnamon LMAO COPYED THE WRONG ISO LINK LOL |
| 09:19.39 | ratrace | jelly: or it's not yet ready to be even snap'd |
| 09:19.56 | flrnd | Canonical dropped the ball because they're waiting for debian packages |
| 09:20.09 | ratrace | no, Canonical uses snaps for gnome |
| 09:20.10 | jelly | that's probably not true |
| 09:20.13 | btravis76 | jelly : I have not been having problem with it |
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| 09:20.40 | ratrace | on Ubuntu, the (default) gnome desktop is actually a snap. since ... 18.04? or a bit earlier |
| 09:20.45 | jelly | they deal with gnome a lot more, as their default DE is basically Gnome + 1-2 custom extensions |
| 09:21.11 | ratrace | + (Ever_increasing) extensions becaues gnome is Ever_decreasing features :))) |
| 09:21.22 | flrnd | yes but they pull their packages from testing (sometimes from sid)= |
| 09:21.40 | ratrace | flrnd: not all of them. some/many are upstream specific. |
| 09:21.55 | btravis76 | just wondering can I get ubuntu dock on debian gnome or no |
| 09:22.08 | ratrace | gnome in particular, is a snap, pulled in from gnome upstream |
| 09:22.16 | jelly | flrnd, lsat I looked they had about 70% pulled from debian and 30% their own source packages completely independent from debian |
| 09:22.36 | jelly | ubuntu is not really close to debian at all |
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| 09:22.47 | flrnd | jelly: wasn't sure of that, nice, so I was kind of wrong :) |
| 09:22.50 | ratrace | btw, what they pull, they pull from Sid, not testing |
| 09:22.59 | jelly | ratrace, they mix and match |
| 09:23.02 | flrnd | jelly: that I did know, that it's not close to debian |
| 09:23.18 | ratrace | jelly: but it's typically/mostly from Sid |
| 09:23.35 | jelly | used to be testing, might change again |
| 09:24.11 | flrnd | didn't know that gnome was a snap? m |
| 09:25.12 | btravis76 | How can I get Dash to Dock look like Ubuntu Dock on Debian Gnome |
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| 09:26.13 | flrnd | btravis76: the mayor difference is that won't fill the whole lateral, other than that is only aesthetics? |
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| 09:28.14 | btravis76 | flrnd : So your telling me there a chance |
| 09:29.53 | flrnd | I'm telling you that the dock on Ubuntu has the exact functionality that dash 2 dock. The only difference are aesthetics (to match visually speacking the old Unity dock) |
| 09:30.34 | flrnd | dash 2 dock will be more OSX-like, but the functionality is the same |
| 09:31.14 | btravis76 | I know but what can I use to make it like ubuntu |
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| 09:31.33 | btravis76 | love the dock in ubuntu that why am asking lol |
| 09:31.47 | flrnd | :sigh: |
| 09:32.08 | flrnd | btravis76: I don't know how :( |
| 09:32.20 | btravis76 | but when debain release gnome 40 am going to be quite about it |
| 09:32.26 | btravis76 | flrnd that ok |
| 09:33.40 | btravis76 | don't worry I understanding what you said on your first answer is not possible just trying to make you laugh on the dumber movie " SO YOU TELLING ME THERE A CHANCE " LMAO :') :') :') |
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| 09:36.47 | dob1 | on thunar when I am compressing some dir/files I would like to see the progress |
| 09:36.51 | dob1 | it's possible? |
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| 10:00.35 | hiya | I have a i5 tiger-lake laptop here |
| 10:00.45 | hiya | Would Debian Stable handle it well with net install? |
| 10:01.15 | hiya | Does net install have gnome? |
| 10:01.44 | hiya | I do not want to use Debian, which works best in Live USB so far |
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| 10:20.09 | Ede|Popede | hiya: netinstall has everything it needs to install all the rest from the rest, thus the name ;) |
| 10:20.44 | Ede|Popede | i was able to install everything i selected in the dialogs just with the 1st DVD, should you be concerned. |
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| 10:21.01 | Ede|Popede | also, live iso. nice to find out if it fits. |
| 10:23.11 | hiya | Ede|Popede: where is live USB for gnome? |
| 10:23.21 | hiya | Is Gnome still default DE or XFCE? |
| 10:24.10 | hiya | ok found it |
| 10:24.19 | hiya | I think I might need the one with non-free but I would try the free ones |
| 10:26.36 | Ede|Popede | hiya, you may choose your poison ;) https://www.debian.org/CD/live/ |
| 10:27.17 | hiya | Ede|Popede: I not want poison, I only drinking milk with saffron or turmeric |
| 10:27.24 | hiya | hence Debian :] |
| 10:28.15 | Ede|Popede | nothing is without poison. /lecture ;) |
| 10:28.34 | hiya | It is just a distro that is hard to quit or leave even with Manjaro or popOS or Fedora lurking to grab u |
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| 10:29.02 | ratrace | hiya: "I do not want to use Debian" .. sorry, I don't follow, then what are you really asking? |
| 10:29.47 | hiya | ratrace: I do not want to use Fedora** |
| 10:29.49 | hiya | sorry |
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| 10:30.05 | Ede|Popede | hiya: don't fall for their marketing departments ;) |
| 10:30.08 | hiya | Fedora included all the binary blobs in the world to make it 'just work' |
| 10:30.23 | Ede|Popede | they may be shiny, but... Get The Real Thing® |
| 10:32.17 | hiya | Ede|Popede: :P |
| 10:32.49 | hiya | I think I might need backport kernel and firmware |
| 10:33.01 | hiya | maybe non-free too |
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| 10:40.56 | Ede|Popede | yeah, but just stay away from Frankendebians |
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| 10:46.07 | hiya | Ede|Popede: so gnome installer didn't detect my nvme disk, needs wifi driver and what |
| 10:48.58 | Ede|Popede | hiya: no gnome or wifi here, actually wifi is the first thing i always deactivated in the bios ;) |
| 10:49.08 | Ede|Popede | good old eth ftw! |
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| 11:03.42 | dob1 | I am not sure how to negate this if bash condition if /bin/mountpoint -q "${mount2}" && /bin/mountpoint -q "${backup_mount}"; then |
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| 11:04.39 | dob1 | if ! [[ /bin/mountpoint -q "${mount2}" && /bin/mountpoint -q "${backup_mount}" ]]; then ? |
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| 11:14.38 | tejr | dob1: That looks right |
| 11:15.14 | tejr | It seems a strange thing to check though |
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| 11:26.39 | ratrace | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:26.40 | dpkg | ratrace: okay |
| 11:26.47 | ratrace | ehhh what |
| 11:27.06 | ratrace | I hit a space before ! not to triger dpkg ..... WHAT THE.... |
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| 11:27.40 | tejr | ratrace: It's a bit more complicated than that |
| 11:27.53 | tejr | /bin/[ is indeed an executable---but Bash generally doesn't use it |
| 11:27.56 | tejr | ~$ type [ |
| 11:27.56 | tejr | [ is a shell builtin |
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| 11:28.12 | ratrace | but ! must be an "argument" of [ no? |
| 11:28.33 | ratrace | ie. inside teh [[ .. ]] conditional test? |
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| 11:29.15 | tejr | Both work :) (in Bash) |
| 11:29.34 | ratrace | okay, my bad then. |
| 11:29.58 | ratrace | now wth did dpkg do here... did it create a factoid.... |
| 11:30.33 | tejr | Not even "your bad", really, Bash's syntax is weird |
| 11:35.18 | ratrace | okay who is the dpkg wrangler here .... this dumb idiot bot MUST be told to obey only specific regexes. I just accidentally created a factoid (which I cleared in privmsg with the idiot dpkg) |
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| 11:42.31 | ratrace | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:42.31 | dpkg | ratrace: okay |
| 11:42.35 | ratrace | !the dumb bot |
| 11:42.35 | dpkg | i heard the dumb bot is oblivious to whitespace ! |
| 11:42.41 | ratrace | QED |
| 11:43.19 | ratrace | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:43.19 | dpkg | ii | grep my-furry-collection 2.2-13 ratrace's private warez collection |
| 11:46.07 | Ede|Popede | ,info my-furry-collection |
| 11:46.09 | judd | No package named 'my-furry-collection' was found in buster/amd64. |
| 11:46.18 | Ede|Popede | sounds like a frankendebian? ;) |
| 11:46.43 | oxek | ratrace: you have permissions to add factoids to dpkg? that's neat. |
| 11:46.49 | jelly | private packages are not automatically franken anything |
| 11:47.18 | jelly | oxek, here's a secret, ANYONE can add factoids |
| 11:47.28 | ratrace | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:47.28 | dpkg | ii | grep ede-popede-porn-warez 2.3-14 ultra s3kr1t #debian package |
| 11:47.29 | jelly | keep it on the down low! |
| 11:47.37 | Ede|Popede | :o |
| 11:47.49 | oxek | jelly: to be fair, I don't really have a desire to add factoids as much as I have to fix some of the outdated ones |
| 11:47.57 | oxek | and editing probably needs some permissions |
| 11:48.20 | Ede|Popede | that's something i like, people are really civilized here |
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| 11:48.48 | ratrace | my only gripe here is that teh bot triggers on regexes and phrases that CAN be used in conversation that have nothing to do with the bot |
| 11:49.04 | oxek | I think the whole debian ecosystem attracts a certain kind of user that's not as likely to be uncivilized as in some other places on the internet |
| 11:49.20 | ratrace | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:49.20 | Ede|Popede | yep, sometimes there's a reaction on false positives |
| 11:49.31 | ratrace | teh bot must trigger on very specific, explicit, unaccidental, regex. |
| 11:50.15 | jelly | oxek, PM |
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| 11:56.07 | jelly | ,v linux-image-4.9.0-15-amd64 |
| 11:56.08 | judd | No package named 'linux-image-4.9.0-15-amd64' was found in amd64. |
| 11:56.55 | jelly | ,kernels |
| 11:56.56 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.10.0-trunk-686 (5.10.2-1~exp1); sid: 5.10.0-5-686 (5.10.24-1); bullseye: 5.10.0-5-686 (5.10.24-1); buster-backports: 5.10.0-0.bpo.3-686-pae (5.10.13-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-16-686-pae (4.19.181-1); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.14-686 (4.19.171-2~deb9u1); jessie-backports: |
| 11:56.57 | judd | 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1) |
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| 11:57.48 | jelly | okay, that's a bit broken then |
| 11:59.16 | jelly | linux (4.9.258-1) stretch-security; urgency=high |
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| 11:59.29 | jelly | that's from LTS |
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| 13:00.06 | Ooze | I have LVM set up, but I'm not sure under which lv I have /opt |
| 13:00.47 | Ooze | Is it usually grouped w/ another dir? |
| 13:01.14 | jelly | Ooze, use "lvs" or "lvdisplay" |
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| 13:01.35 | jelly | or even ls -la /dev/mapper/ for a casual look |
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| 13:05.27 | MrTrick | I've got a slow script. It works, just takes so long that it slows down the work. |
| 13:05.27 | MrTrick | Is there any tool good for watching it run, and coming back with metrics like how much TOTAL time it spent waiting for cpu, memory, disk, network? |
| 13:06.29 | MrTrick | (`top` et al are great for monitoring instant state of an ongoing process, I'm looking for accumulated state of one cycle of the script) |
| 13:07.25 | hejux | MrTrick: time /path/to/your/script |
| 13:08.17 | hejux | if it is a shell script. add a line on top of the script: set -x |
| 13:09.04 | hejux | therefor you can see every single line of execution |
| 13:09.08 | MrTrick | hejux: how would that figure out whether eg waiting for disk or network? |
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| 13:20.29 | jelly | MrTrick, you wouldn't, but a script is a script, and calls other commands. You would look at which commands took the time and draw conclusions. |
| 13:20.51 | MrTrick | hmm, very hard to know. |
| 13:21.26 | MrTrick | in the *other* direction it's easier. If network is slow, then db is the bottleneck, etc. |
| 13:21.31 | jelly | no ready-made tool that I know of to track all the threads and tell you which ones are waiting and when |
| 13:21.57 | MrTrick | Not even single thread? :-D |
| 13:22.07 | hejux | MrTrick: turn on the debug option of the script and run it |
| 13:22.37 | jelly | MrTrick, show me a script that's single threaded and does not call other commands, and I'll tell you that's not a script, it's a program |
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| 13:23.07 | jelly | MrTrick, you can use strace to look at what syscalls a program calls and how long they take |
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| 13:23.18 | MrTrick | I was using 'script' in a quite loose sense, as PHP is interpreted it's technically scripting. |
| 13:23.48 | ratrace | it's actually bytecode compiled |
| 13:23.48 | jelly | surely php has a debugger in it |
| 13:23.59 | MrTrick | True, I'll look into strace and internal php options. |
| 13:24.03 | ratrace | unlike bash for example |
| 13:24.20 | jelly | I know perl, python, even bash has set -x tracing |
| 13:24.29 | ratrace | and there's a ton of PHP profiling tools, some zend based |
| 13:24.40 | Ede|Popede | maybe `ts` together with `-x` could also be an idea |
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| 13:32.54 | fltrz | " strcase.c:5:28: fatal error: unicode/ustdio.h: No such file or directory " how do I install icu and its headers? |
| 13:33.08 | fltrz | or one must install from source?? |
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| 13:36.07 | jelly | fltrz, what are you trying to accomplish |
| 13:36.36 | fltrz | just compile a sample program strcase.c , before I modify it further |
| 13:36.49 | greycat | ,file unicode/ustdio.h |
| 13:36.55 | judd | Search for unicode/ustdio.h in buster/amd64: libicu-dev: usr/include/unicode/ustdio.h |
| 13:37.00 | greycat | voila |
| 13:37.04 | fltrz | greycat, did you read my error message? |
| 13:37.08 | jelly | he did. |
| 13:37.12 | jelly | install the dev package. |
| 13:37.32 | fltrz | well I'm on ancient debian version |
| 13:37.40 | jelly | don't be? |
| 13:38.00 | jelly | fltrz, which debian version is it? |
| 13:38.04 | hejux | ,file unicode/ustdio.h |
| 13:38.08 | judd | Search for unicode/ustdio.h in buster/amd64: libicu-dev: usr/include/unicode/ustdio.h |
| 13:38.25 | fltrz | whats that terminal command again to check the version |
| 13:38.30 | hejux | shit, i guess apt can't do this |
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| 13:38.37 | jelly | !debian suite |
| 13:38.37 | dpkg | cat /etc/debian_version (or lsb_release -sc). Or check /etc/apt/sources.list. If unsure about the distribution, $ cat /etc/{*version*,*release*,*issue*} should grab almost all distributions. |
| 13:38.47 | ratrace | hejux: apt-file can |
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| 13:39.12 | fltrz | usr/include doesnt contain a unicode folder |
| 13:39.32 | jelly | fltrz, which debian release is it? |
| 13:39.34 | fltrz | its 8.11 |
| 13:39.41 | greycat | ,file unicode/ustdio.h --release jessie |
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| 13:39.46 | judd | Search for unicode/ustdio.h in jessie/amd64: libicu-dev: usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/unicode/ustdio.h |
| 13:39.50 | jelly | fltrz, and does debian 8 have a libicu-dev package available for installation? |
| 13:39.50 | greycat | voila |
| 13:40.12 | hejux | greycat: are you a bot? |
| 13:40.15 | ratrace | Voilá, said the grey cat while playing a viola. |
| 13:40.22 | ratrace | yes, greycat is a bot. |
| 13:40.26 | greycat | bleep blorp |
| 13:40.30 | ratrace | see |
| 13:40.40 | ratrace | dpkg: are you a bot |
| 13:40.40 | dpkg | I ain't no stinkin' bot. I am a finely tuned and hand crafted tool. Oh wait... I guess I am a bot (that you should not abuse). |
| 13:40.52 | ratrace | that too. they always say they aren't. lying. |
| 13:40.53 | jelly | we love when our bots talk to eachother |
| 13:41.08 | fltrz | ah yes, I was tab completing $sudo apt-get install icu\t and didn't realize I was implicitly not considering libicu* |
| 13:41.45 | fltrz | thanks a heap! |
| 13:41.54 | fltrz | ever given loads of thanks :) |
| 13:42.17 | hejux | i don't like this way, seperate the packages with bin/dev/doc |
| 13:42.26 | fltrz | my ancient as pharaoh version of debian can hobble along |
| 13:42.48 | hejux | debian 8 is still covered? |
| 13:43.28 | ratrace | fltrz: we sometimes hve questions for wheezy, and I swear someone asked about sarge few weeks ago. so jessie ain't that ancient :) |
| 13:43.37 | greycat | !jessie lts |
| 13:43.43 | hejux | The Debian Long Term Support (LTS) Team hereby announces that Debian 8 jessie support has reached its end-of-life on June 30, 2020 |
| 13:43.45 | greycat | aww. |
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| 13:43.54 | greycat | !jessie-lts |
| 13:43.54 | dpkg | Security support for Debian 8 "Jessie" from the Debian Security Team ended on 2018-05-17. The amd64, i386, armel and armhf architectures received additional long term support (<LTS>) via <jessie/updates> until June 30, 2020 for a 5 year lifetime total. jessie-lts is no longer supported. Ask me about <jessie->stretch> and <stretch->buster>. See https://wiki.debian.org/LTS for more information |
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| 13:44.57 | fltrz | yes, but don't worry about security, whoever compromised my system turned it into a honeypot anyway, its like bacteria, we live in symbiosis |
| 13:46.01 | fltrz | just happy to still be able to fetch the libicu-dev fecal transplant |
| 13:46.11 | hejux | greycat: tell me a joke |
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| 13:46.37 | ratrace | don't abuse the bots, please. |
| 13:46.58 | jelly | !botabuse |
| 13:46.58 | dpkg | lay off me you buggerererers!!11! |
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| 13:47.31 | jelly | jessie is now in ELTS |
| 13:47.45 | fltrz | thanks jelly jud :) |
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| 13:48.33 | ratrace | jelly: there's actually that? :) |
| 13:48.42 | jelly | and ELTS costs a pretty penny. If your company can't afford a couple thousand euros a year, UPGRADE |
| 13:48.58 | jelly | !elts |
| 13:48.58 | dpkg | Limited commercial support for jessie exists in form of Extended LTS, see https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Extended and https://deb.freexian.com/extended-lts/, or wheezy-elts ended 2020-06-30 |
| 13:49.06 | ratrace | holy cow |
| 13:49.12 | jelly | I probably need to update that. |
| 13:49.20 | ratrace | I'd rather say if you _need_ that ancient software and can't upgrade, you should really be paying up to Red Hat |
| 13:49.29 | fltrz | its no longer erroring on the include, but its seeing undefined references, but thats just probably me needing to figure out the compiler flags |
| 13:49.40 | jelly | ratrace, why would you pay effin Red Hat when you can keep using Debian |
| 13:49.47 | jelly | and pay Debian devs. |
| 13:50.14 | ratrace | because debian (E)LTS has nowhere near the guarantees of RH, even paid. |
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| 13:50.35 | ratrace | well... I am assuming LTS ... as I wasn't sure E even existed in Debian |
| 13:50.55 | jelly | you just learned it even exists, and have no idea what guarantees there are |
| 13:51.07 | greycat | fltrz: you most likely want to add -licu to the end of your linking command |
| 13:51.08 | ratrace | yes the Extended. I know what LTS does |
| 13:51.21 | jelly | I'd rather pay a tiny .fr company with DDs than IBM |
| 13:51.23 | jelly | YMMV! |
| 13:51.38 | greycat | but if that doesn't work, read the man page for whatever function you're using, and ideally it will tell you which libraries to link |
| 13:51.48 | jelly | all of those are about equally able to backport CVEs |
| 13:51.55 | ratrace | frankly, I wouldn't. y'all can hate on RH but one thing is certain: they do majorty of work in the kernel, most of ecosystem and most of vulns are found by them. |
| 13:52.13 | hejux | greycat: is not a bot |
| 13:52.20 | ratrace | I don't use RH because I and my use cases, even the enterprise ones, do not need that level of guarantees. |
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| 13:52.41 | hejux | ratrace: arch is for you. |
| 13:52.50 | ratrace | what? |
| 13:52.53 | jelly | I don't believe RH offers anything significantly better than Freexian |
| 13:52.54 | hejux | never get out dated |
| 13:53.13 | ratrace | hejux: what's that got to do, got to do, with anything I'm saying? |
| 13:53.32 | hejux | sorry i'm drunk |
| 13:53.33 | jelly | ratrace, except the bits of the code they're actually upstream for. Like device-mapper, LVM, some parts for the kernel, some parts of glibc |
| 13:53.53 | ratrace | some parts of gnome, some parts of NM, some parts of systemd, some parts of ..... frigin entrie ecosystem :) |
| 13:54.30 | jelly | ratrace, I honestly trust debian kernel people to do a better job of backporting stuff into 4.9 or 4.19 than RH keeping 3.10 safe |
| 13:54.46 | fltrz | hmm -Licu isn't fixing it, but I better stop pestering you, now its just a C/C++ gcc problem |
| 13:55.20 | ratrace | jelly: with majority of corporate kernel dev coming from RH, I'd be confidend they know what they're doing. The _are_ the Linux Kernel (tm)(r) developers. |
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| 13:55.26 | ratrace | DDs aren't mostly. |
| 13:55.26 | greycat | Again, read the man page for the function you are trying to call. And it's not -Llibname, it's -llibname. |
| 13:55.42 | greycat | -L is a different option |
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| 13:55.50 | ratrace | jelly: but anyhoo... I love Debian, and I use Debian. Just sayin', if I needed (E)LTS level of guarantees, I'd reconsider. |
| 13:56.04 | jelly | ratrace, go read who was the maintainer for 3.16 and 4.9 longterm and compare to the set of DDs in Debian's Kernel Team |
| 13:56.29 | shtrb | ratrace, do have a survey to back that up ? I know a few and they are far from RH |
| 13:56.42 | shtrb | originally form slackware, gentoo and arch |
| 13:56.55 | ratrace | jelly: oh I know _some_ DDs are @ lkml.org |
| 13:57.36 | fltrz | with lowercase I get /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -licu |
| 13:58.37 | ratrace | shtrb: there must be some graphs and tables if you ask google |
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| 14:00.18 | greycat | fltrz: so it's the wrong library name. Find out the right one. |
| 14:00.45 | fltrz | yeah, been trying around icu-52 icu-dev llibicu-dev etc |
| 14:02.11 | fltrz | CFLAGS = -std=c99 -pedantic -Wall -Wextra \ |
| 14:02.11 | fltrz | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:02.11 | fltrz | LDFLAGS = `pkg-config --libs icu-uc icu-io |
| 14:02.44 | greycat | oh, you have a Makefile already? use it. |
| 14:03.20 | fltrz | I didn't have it yet, just scrolled to the start of the code example page... |
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| 14:03.40 | ratrace | shtrb: here's for 5.10. most signoffs come from RH, thus most of those people are RH people. https://lwn.net/Articles/839772/ |
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| 14:07.09 | shtrb | So kernel devs are only thous whos commits had been approved ? |
| 14:07.38 | ratrace | well yeah, who else. |
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| 14:08.21 | ratrace | that's ultimately that matters, code that ends up in kernel.org that, ultimately, is used by distros among which Debian. |
| 14:08.56 | shtrb | Anyone who you know , write kernel modules or do kernel modification for his fun or salary |
| 14:10.31 | ratrace | shtrb: yea |
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| 14:11.54 | ratrace | the context here is about code that ends up in kernel.org and thus used by the entire ecosystem. Sure, there's untold numbers of people who write kernel code for their own personal use that nobody else uses. there's also canonical with custom "SAUCE" patches that are ubuntu specific and not _yet_ upstreamed. I am not aware of DDs doing that except maybe occasionally, exceptionally, if even that. |
| 14:13.50 | fltrz | greycat, thanks, I solved my problems:) |
| 14:14.05 | jelly | the context is would you trust DDs to deliver timely security backports over RH employees, NOT just for kernel |
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| 14:21.10 | ratrace | frankly, I wouldn't. simply by seeing and comparing where CVEs originate, who's mostly reporting them and how fast are fixes coming down in RH land vs Debian land. |
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| 14:23.49 | jelly | I would and I do, and I don't think RH does anything significantly better |
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| 14:25.19 | ratrace | for starters, they don't freeze Stable for sec updates while Testing is hard frozen :) |
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| 14:30.57 | jelly | lts team doesn't do that |
| 14:37.32 | ratrace | jelly: so you're saying LTS teams do better job than regular Debian (stable) secteam? |
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| 14:39.22 | jelly | ratrace, sometimes they do, yes |
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| 14:40.08 | jelly | I've had problems with a desktop machine when LTS updated firefox-esr before stable did |
| 14:40.11 | ratrace | and in RH there's no such distinction. a release is covered by the same secteam for 10 years. there's no "LTS" vs "non-LTS" |
| 14:41.02 | jelly | if only RH packaging were as decent as Debian's |
| 14:42.58 | ratrace | yeah, RPM .spec fiels are easier :) |
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| 15:05.20 | jak2020 | i try send a file with scp command: 695M Feb 6 06:03 debian-10.8.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso but los the connection, then how to complete the upload file? thanks |
| 15:06.13 | greycat | use rsync instead |
| 15:06.13 | imMute | jak2020: run the command again. scp is not resumable. |
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| 15:09.37 | jelly | rsync is nice enough to resume a partial copy left over from scp |
| 15:10.06 | jelly | but it requires rsync to be installed at both ends |
| 15:10.19 | greycat | which you want anyway |
| 15:11.13 | jak2020 | sudo scp debian-10.8.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso jak@192.168.105.65:/home/jak/ftp |
| 15:11.40 | greycat | use rsync instead, and it will pick up where scp stopped |
| 15:11.56 | greycat | if "ftp" is a directory, put a slash after it |
| 15:12.22 | imMute | does anyone know if there's a way to tell SSH to not store a host key for a specific host in known_hosts? I have a device that changes the SSH host key every time it reboots and having to delete known_hosts all the time sucks. |
| 15:12.39 | jak2020 | yes is a directory ok thanks |
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| 15:14.22 | jak2020 | its ok: rsync -avz debian-10.8.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso jak@192.168.105.65:/home/jak/ftp/ ? |
| 15:15.03 | greycat | assuming rsync is installed on both sides |
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| 15:18.15 | ratrace | _sudo_ scp ?! |
| 15:18.32 | jak2020 | not display any activity... a percentage or something... how to? |
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| 15:18.59 | ratrace | jak2020: --info=progress2 |
| 15:20.50 | jak2020 | ok, actually: 15,171,584 2% 191.64kB/s 1:02:03 if i interrpt with ctrl+C and start gain would start on 2% right? |
| 15:21.01 | oxek | interesting, I never realized rsync has to exist on both sides. I thought if it exists only on the sending side, it just acts as a sort of network cp. |
| 15:21.12 | oxek | like scp |
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| 15:21.19 | ratrace | jak2020: rsync doesn't literally resume. it does delta transfer check so it'd start from 0, realize there's delta chunks already present, and skip them |
| 15:21.49 | ratrace | essentially the same (transfers only what's missing), but nitpicky important distinction |
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| 15:28.31 | jak2020 | ok understand i check on destinationif the file increase the size right? |
| 15:30.23 | greycat | there will probably be a temp file whose name starts with a dot |
| 15:31.28 | ratrace | yeah, unless --inplace is used |
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| 15:40.07 | jak2020 | arghhh: 104,595,456 14% 120.82kB/s 1:26:06 |
| 15:40.57 | jak2020 | slow slow and i need to move to other place in 30 minutes... |
| 15:41.10 | ratrace | download more internet speed. |
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| 15:46.00 | dob1 | in a script I am using ssh heredoc to execute some commands, in the heredoc part I am setting a variable, this will live just for the time the script is executed, right? (it's a password so I want to be sure) |
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| 15:46.22 | greycat | *facepalm* |
| 15:46.40 | greycat | 1991 called. They want their no-security workflow back. |
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| 15:47.30 | dob1 | greycat, can you explain please? |
| 15:47.55 | greycat | If this password is for ssh, use key auth instead. If this password is for sudo, ssh in as the CORRECT USER instead, or configure sudo not to require a password. If the password is for mysql, well, uh, talk to #mysql or upgrade to a better database. |
| 15:49.30 | dob1 | greycat, it is not ssh password neither sudo one, it is the restic password that I use to run the backup on remote host so on heredoc part of ssh connection I have RESTIC_PASSWORD="somep password" |
| 15:50.01 | greycat | so the password is written in the clear, in the script |
| 15:50.13 | dob1 | greycat, yes but not on remote host |
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| 15:50.20 | jelly | !bullseye pool 1 |
| 15:50.20 | dpkg | ! antto=2021-07-07 räträcé=2021-06-13 jëlly=2021-06-06 themÃÂll=2021-09-01 |
| 15:51.00 | dob1 | greycat, the alternative si to create like enfs/gocryptfs directory on remote host and put inside it a file with the password.. no other idea |
| 15:51.25 | jelly | how do you even pronounce räträcé |
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| 15:52.10 | jelly | greycat, mysql does unix domain socket auth these days, it can know who connected |
| 15:52.27 | greycat | oooh. |
| 15:52.34 | jelly | just like Pg has been doing for... ever? |
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| 15:54.44 | ratrace | jelly: roetroecE , accent on the last e |
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| 15:54.53 | jak2020 | stoped here: 104,595,456 14% 120.82kB/s 1:26:06 Break and start again? |
| 15:55.11 | ratrace | spoken as a german tourist in north Strasbourg trying a french accent to sound more..... local. |
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| 15:58.11 | graytron | imMute: is it an openssh server? |
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| 16:01.03 | imMute | graytron: yes. I found https://superuser.com/a/433621 which seems to do what I want. |
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| 16:14.54 | graytron | imMute: since you don't care about security you could try setting IgnoreUserKnownHosts to "yes" in /etc/ssh/sshd_config (see "man sshd_config"). im pretty sure there used to be a similar client side option which allowed one to ignore the known_hosts file, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. |
| 16:16.02 | greycat | I think some people even symlink the known_hosts file to /dev/null. |
| 16:16.22 | greycat | it's amazing how hard people will work to shoot themselves in the foot |
| 16:16.46 | graytron | oh yes |
| 16:17.13 | jelly | on the other hand, people now have usage scenarios that ssh authors may not have thought of, and ssh is the default remote login tool |
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| 16:17.32 | jelly | even if "remote" means "container running on the same machine" |
| 16:18.05 | graytron | imMute: maybe just ssh to "ssh-keygen -R host-name ; ssh-keygen -R host-ip ; ssh" |
| 16:18.48 | graytron | imMute: i mean, add an alias "ssh-keygen -R host-name ; ssh-keygen -R host-ip ; ssh" |
| 16:20.46 | imMute | graytron: the client and server are not on the same system. why would a client listen to a server that says "nah, you don't need to verify me" ? |
| 16:21.04 | greycat | "and I can't make all of my ephemeral container instances use the same host keys because ___" |
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| 16:24.10 | ratrace | founds SETC. Sysadminds for the Ethical Treatment of Containers. |
| 16:24.12 | graytron | imMute: that is a valid concern |
| 16:24.30 | ratrace | rule #1: thou shalt not ssh into a container.... |
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| 16:25.57 | qubit | What's the policy around bug fixes into stable? Bug #930839 was filed and closed as 'fixed' with fix in unstable back in 2019, but nothing in Buster stable. Should this fix be getting released to stable? |
| 16:25.58 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/930839 in ifupdown2 (closed): «ifupdown2: gateway broken if using metric»; severity: normal; opened: 2019-06-21; last modified: 2019-08-22. |
| 16:26.04 | jelly | "... cloud-init initializes with random host keys, as it should," who knows |
| 16:26.24 | jelly | qubit, was the bug labeled as Found: in version in stable |
| 16:27.35 | qubit | I'm not seeing that exact text, but it says "Found in version ifupdown2/1.2.5-1" and 1.2.5-1 is the current version in stable |
| 16:27.40 | greycat | In *general*, bugs in stable are not fixed. Ever. Exceptions occur if the bug is security related, or considered serious enough to warrant a change in a point release. |
| 16:27.54 | jelly | debian developers often close bugs only in unstable, you need to poke them extra and say that the fix is useful in stable |
| 16:27.56 | qubit | ahh, ok. so I'd have to manually backport? |
| 16:28.30 | jelly | it's annoying but solves issues that are introduced when a fix for A breaks B |
| 16:29.36 | ratrace | "In *general*, bugs in stable are not fixed." let that sink in. must be dumbest policy ever to graze FOSS.... |
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| 16:31.04 | jelly | ratrace, ubuntu is different and they fix a LOT of things in their LTS. But they also have lots of regressions |
| 16:31.13 | jelly | different tradeoffs |
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| 16:32.06 | jelly | with Debian, you can quickly find the public bug report and know a) something is, in fact broken, and b) easily find the fix if you really need it |
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| 16:34.41 | oxek | ratrace: stable means not changing. Imagine all those people who rely on the bug suddenly having their workflow change. |
| 16:35.01 | oxek | https://xkcd.com/1172/ |
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| 16:39.45 | ratrace | oxek: you're assuming a bugfix changes the workflow |
| 16:40.08 | ratrace | jelly: I wouldn't count regressions as an argument against bugfixes. there's sometimes|often regressions in DSAs as well |
| 16:40.34 | oxek | ratrace: there's always that one person who has the weirdest workflow |
| 16:40.53 | ratrace | oxek: and that also applies to security fixes |
| 16:41.08 | ratrace | or political changes.... |
| 16:41.18 | oxek | political changes? |
| 16:41.27 | ratrace | changes in code caused by politics |
| 16:41.31 | somiaj | So limiting the fixes to only the most important cases, security and grave bugs is the compormised debian has taken on their mostly frozen releases. |
| 16:42.42 | oxek | I'm still looking for a distro that is like debian, but backports security AND bugfixes, without introducing new features. Probably doesn't exist. |
| 16:43.13 | ratrace | eh.. RHEL doesn't exist? oracle? centos? |
| 16:43.51 | oxek | can't afford those :D |
| 16:43.51 | ratrace | also debian introduces new features sometimes, it's not an absolute, set-in-stone, rule that it wouldn't |
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| 16:44.18 | imMute | oxek: CentOS is free is it not? |
| 16:44.28 | ratrace | oracle is too |
| 16:44.30 | oxek | CentOS is "dead" if we're to believe the doomsayers |
| 16:44.37 | somiaj | Yea, it takes a lot of man power and help from devs to nicely backport only the fix needed and sometimes this is just not possible, hence compremises. |
| 16:45.02 | ratrace | somiaj: which is why I'm surprised debian wouldn't (back)port bug fixes that don't have CVE attached |
| 16:45.38 | ratrace | then again there's taht freezing period where even CVE tagged changes don't trickle down... |
| 16:45.45 | somiaj | it depends on the bug, point releases contain multiple bug fixes |
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| 16:48.33 | jelly | oxek, ubuntu lts might have been that, but they sometimes inject somepletely new software into your installations |
| 16:49.07 | ratrace | unfortunately. that libssl bump to 1.1.1 mid 18.04 release was the camel that broke straw's back for me. |
| 16:49.31 | jelly | installing snapd unasked made me wary of ever using it for servers |
| 16:50.04 | jelly | libssl is at least supposed to be compatible with itself |
| 16:51.41 | ratrace | it broke python and some other things |
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| 16:52.21 | jelly | .pal ubuntu |
| 16:52.22 | ratrace | 1.1.0 vs 1.1.1 wasn't as tiny as semantic versioning would assume. smaller than 1.0.x to 1.1.0, for sure |
| 16:52.58 | jelly | mysterious are they ways of openssl |
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| 17:01.53 | travis_ | hi |
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| 17:16.30 | pvoigt | One of my Buster machines does not show the available 10.9 point release for upgrade. With the same package sources serveral other machines can be upgraded from 10.8 to 10.9. Any idea how to fix this? |
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| 17:16.43 | greycat | try a different mirror |
| 17:17.05 | oxek | !buster sources.list |
| 17:17.05 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main", and optionally "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <buster/updates> <buster-updates> and "man sources.list". |
| 17:17.16 | oxek | the deb.debian.org one definitely has 10.9 |
| 17:17.24 | Schwarzbaer | Hi. Any recommendations for a program to go through an image collection and tag the images? |
| 17:17.25 | greycat | !deb.debian.org |
| 17:17.25 | dpkg | deb.debian.org is a mirror network that is backed by international content delivery networks and for most users, this is the most reliable <mirror> to use in the <sources.list>. From Debian 9 "Stretch" onwards, apt queries SRV records in DNS which then send it off to a CDN. Older apt will get an HTTP redirect from deb.debian.org to the same CDNs. See http://deb.debian.org/ for more details. |
| 17:18.02 | oxek | the CDNs at deb.debian.org are 100% synchronized at all times, as far as I know |
| 17:18.03 | pvoigt | greycat, oxek: Thanks, will try that mirror. |
| 17:18.13 | oxek | it's not like the old httpredir one |
| 17:18.39 | greycat | "100% synchronized at all times" sounds like a fond wish, but it might be close enough in practice |
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| 17:19.33 | oxek | last I asked about this, that's what I was told. They only make the new versions visible once all the servers have been synchronized |
| 17:19.48 | oxek | apparently something would break if that was not the case |
| 17:20.05 | oxek | it being a CDN and all |
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| 17:21.55 | oxek | pvoigt: report back if it worked, and let us know what mirror you had before it |
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| 17:23.41 | pvoigt | oxek: Well, currently I am using https://debian.inf.tu-dresden.de/debian/ |
| 17:24.24 | pvoigt | That mirror worked with three machines and fails with one. |
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| 17:25.14 | oxek | looks up-to-date, but what you're describing is weird |
| 17:25.30 | oxek | are you sure you ran `apt update` first? |
| 17:26.09 | pvoigt | oxek: right, that's why I am asking for advice here. Give me some minutes to change the mirror and let me see, if it helps. |
| 17:26.09 | ratrace | whoops! https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/113838 |
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| 17:26.50 | oxek | well that's terrible |
| 17:28.20 | oxek | they probably shouldn't have been running PHP on their git server :D |
| 17:28.26 | pvoigt | oxek: yes, apt updates sent ahead. |
| 17:29.18 | oxek | these supply chain attacks will be getting more frequent I guess |
| 17:29.20 | genr8_ | Its DNS. its always DNS. |
| 17:29.51 | oxek | pvoigt: `apt policy base-files` on the affected machine? Unless you already fixed everything. |
| 17:31.15 | ratrace | oxek: the REAL fun here is that they're all fleeing to GH. So now we have one, central repo ecosystem to hack and then all the repos there will be totally pwnt. holy grail for supply chain attacks. Thanks, PHP, you're just dancing to their tune. |
| 17:31.54 | oxek | I think they just admitted they don't have the manpower/skills to handle security on their servers, so github is probably a better choice for them |
| 17:32.25 | oxek | It a choice between knowing your servers can be easily hacked, and knowing that it would likely take much more effort to hack github |
| 17:32.26 | pvoigt | base-files: |
| 17:32.28 | pvoigt | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:32.30 | pvoigt | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:32.32 | pvoigt | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:32.34 | pvoigt | <PROTECTED> |
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| 17:32.48 | imMute | ratrace: signed commits mitigates the problem of your hosting infra getting hacked. |
| 17:33.05 | oxek | hmm, I should probably always add a somment saying not to paste it directly in here but intead use some paste service |
| 17:33.12 | oxek | nobody reads topic... |
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| 17:33.47 | oxek | pvoigt: yeah, use a paste service instead, as per /topic |
| 17:34.21 | oxek | but it looks like that system really doesn't see the 10.9 upgrade |
| 17:35.07 | pvoigt | oxek: yes, sorry, was not aware beeing on IRC. I am most of the time on XMPP. |
| 17:35.48 | oxek | same rules usually apply in xmpp chatrooms |
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| 17:49.11 | pvoigt | oxek: apt update took several minutes. I looks like the new mirror https://deb.debian.org/debian/ now offers 10.9. I would appreciate you to have a short look at the offered package list - the apt behavior on the specific machine isstrongly irritating. |
| 17:50.42 | oxek | not much for me to do. You chose the "best" mirror deb.debian.org and ran a successful `apt update` which refreshed the contents of all local cache files. |
| 17:50.42 | pvoigt | http://paste.debian.net/1191581/ |
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| 17:51.19 | oxek | yeah the list looks about right |
| 17:51.33 | oxek | you can always verify with https://www.debian.org/News/2021/20210327 |
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| 17:51.53 | oxek | you also might want to find out what's up with libsane |
| 17:54.01 | pvoigt | Well, I have rebuild libsane from source several month ago due to a configuration error in the Debian provided package. I am no quite sure about the exact error but I thing it was a long black line on the scanned image. |
| 17:55.09 | oxek | that's fine then |
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| 17:57.24 | pvoigt | Upgrade is in progress. My only conclusion so far: apt somehow messed the package cache. |
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| 18:14.50 | oxek | pvoigt: apt would have told you about it |
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| 18:27.55 | pvoigt | oxek: OK, so I did not learn what went wrong with apt. Btw: Machine rebooted smoothly into 10.9. Thanks for your advice and feedback. |
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| 18:37.25 | busternube | got WINE installed on buster but fails alot of tests from wintest64-latest.exe |
| 18:38.07 | busternube | is there other good wine test apps? |
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| 18:38.26 | oxek | busternube: yes, test how it works with the app that you need working |
| 18:38.27 | busternube | my weak onboard radeon video? |
| 18:38.48 | busternube | i dont know what app yet |
| 18:38.56 | oxek | don't just install wine for the sake of it |
| 18:39.08 | busternube | totally nube on linux |
| 18:39.15 | oxek | that's ok |
| 18:39.18 | busternube | well there will apps |
| 18:39.26 | busternube | will be |
| 18:39.28 | busternube | rathr |
| 18:39.53 | busternube | getting reay to install the kvm hypervisors and stuff. |
| 18:40.02 | busternube | ready* |
| 18:40.12 | busternube | this keyboard is junk |
| 18:40.34 | oxek | "nube on linux", "install kvm hypervisors" |
| 18:40.38 | busternube | already spilled too many beeers on it. |
| 18:40.46 | oxek | well, it's a goal to have, which is nice |
| 18:42.56 | busternube | want to get some windows games working |
| 18:43.27 | Mathisen | just use steam + proton for that |
| 18:43.45 | Mathisen | https://www.protondb.com/ |
| 18:44.16 | busternube | now does that platform run stuff you already own or needs to be sold supported by them? |
| 18:44.35 | Mathisen | it runs stuff you own |
| 18:45.13 | busternube | i bought a couple games in steam years ago lost all that in drive fail |
| 18:45.35 | busternube | i walked thru the train shooting it out with bad guys |
| 18:45.37 | Mathisen | lost ? steam games is on your steam account |
| 18:46.11 | busternube | that i havent touched in 5 + years dont remember logins etc |
| 18:46.18 | Mathisen | reset password |
| 18:47.37 | busternube | so you dont think any of my old windows games need to config's in wine just let proton do it all? |
| 18:49.12 | ratrace | if wine could handle them, proton will handle them just fine too |
| 18:49.26 | Mathisen | i may be wrong, but i suspect cracked games here. and i dont suport that so i wont answer. anyway good luck |
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| 18:53.55 | oxek | to be fair, running games on linux is already in breach of some ToS for sure |
| 18:54.36 | Ede|Popede | those of the makers or steam's? |
| 18:55.04 | oxek | maybe both |
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| 18:55.53 | oxek | wine is not windows, hence it would fall under the category of "system modifications that change how the game runs" |
| 18:55.53 | Mathisen | i doubt proton is breaching any ToS. it is valves own stuff. |
| 18:55.55 | Ede|Popede | i've never seen a game stating "to be used on windows [$vers] only" |
| 18:56.11 | Mathisen | and proton would not work without wine |
| 18:56.21 | Ede|Popede | oxek, this would also be true for other windows versions |
| 18:56.22 | oxek | I've definitely seen games where unless you run on windows, you get banned because anticheat doesn't work or detects system modifications |
| 18:56.46 | Mathisen | thats diffrent |
| 18:56.51 | Ede|Popede | this kind of crap is one reason i'll never get a steam account |
| 18:56.55 | oxek | Ede|Popede: same |
| 18:57.22 | Ede|Popede | and if it does not *work* because of this than i'd blame the anticheat stuff |
| 18:57.22 | oxek | unless the game explicitly supports linux, and is sold separately without needing steam, I'm not getting that game |
| 18:57.37 | oxek | (I haven't played a game ever since steam came out...) |
| 18:58.03 | oxek | well ok, I tried minetest |
| 18:58.21 | oxek | oh and openarena |
| 18:58.37 | Ede|Popede | with my hardware i'm staying behind for natural reasons *g* but i pay for it, i want to HAVE something, not just "you may login to your account as long as we're fine with it" |
| 18:58.54 | Ede|Popede | ... but if i pay... |
| 18:59.21 | oxek | there's also extra DRM in addition to the steam one, where if it doesn't work (it doesn't on wine), then you can't play |
| 18:59.38 | Ede|Popede | and also i don't want to depend on some stinky license servers every time i start a program |
| 19:00.03 | oxek | and you can get cancelled and lose all your games in steam library |
| 19:00.16 | Mathisen | not without reason |
| 19:00.30 | oxek | oh please, people get cancelled for no reason all the time |
| 19:00.44 | oxek | collateral damage |
| 19:01.11 | Ede|Popede | it happens everywhere just because "AI" or underpaid employees and the company in question just doesn't care |
| 19:01.36 | oxek | can't fight it unless you're a well-connected famous big youtuber |
| 19:01.40 | oxek | nobody cares about the little guy |
| 19:01.46 | oxek | well, debian cares about the little guy |
| 19:02.17 | oxek | but then again nobody needs any sort of account to use debian |
| 19:02.45 | NetTerminalGene | what would you call me if i installed brave browser on my debian? |
| 19:03.05 | Ede|Popede | you may have as many browsers as you want |
| 19:03.06 | Mathisen | a brave user |
| 19:03.13 | oxek | +1 |
| 19:03.16 | aminvakil | Mathisen: :))) |
| 19:03.42 | NetTerminalGene | lol |
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| 19:05.03 | NetTerminalGene | i am looking for an adventure |
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| 19:05.52 | Ede|Popede | ,v amaya |
| 19:05.54 | judd | No package named 'amaya' was found in amd64. |
| 19:05.56 | Ede|Popede | what |
| 19:07.02 | oxek | Ede|Popede: you're 12 years late https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/amaya |
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| 19:07.32 | Ede|Popede | !sns |
| 19:07.32 | dpkg | Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>. |
| 19:07.37 | Ede|Popede | not my world xD |
| 19:07.46 | oxek | that's fair xD |
| 19:09.16 | flrnd | so, one of the sns synthoms is "I use arch btw", right? |
| 19:09.31 | ratrace | mmmmh-hmm |
| 19:09.40 | flrnd | bah, bad joke, s///g |
| 19:10.09 | Mathisen | thats kinda true |
| 19:11.15 | oxek | I can't dislike arch, because their wiki is superior to anything else made by any other distro |
| 19:11.48 | sney | the SNS nerds always write the best documentation. gotta appreciate them, even if you don't dive in with them |
| 19:11.49 | oxek | and at the very least their wiki does not 403 me like the debian wiki does |
| 19:11.52 | Mathisen | the distro itself is not bad either |
| 19:12.31 | oxek | is it confession hour yet? ok, I'll start: I never managed to install arch, I only ever used it in premade containers or vm images. |
| 19:12.41 | flrnd | Nah, was a stupid bad joke |
| 19:14.11 | flrnd | and I agree with oxek, arch wiki is great |
| 19:14.35 | Mathisen | i used it as main dist for 3+ years now. for my desktop that is, for my VPS machines or other stuff i prefer debian. |
| 19:14.55 | NetTerminalGene | oxek: you need to be a teenage to install arch |
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| 19:15.12 | Mathisen | you need be able tor read.... |
| 19:15.16 | Mathisen | to* |
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| 19:15.27 | oxek | NetTerminalGene: I'm quite a few decades too old for that then :D |
| 19:15.51 | oxek | I think the amount of hand-holding I'd need to install arch would disqualify me from being a functional arch user |
| 19:16.03 | oxek | having to write config files for everything? yeah, no thanks. |
| 19:16.15 | Mathisen | that is not true |
| 19:16.36 | Mathisen | you dont need to write config files for everything. 99% of the stuff comes with example configs |
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| 19:17.52 | Mathisen | and the install itself if you realy break it down to the esentials is not more then 15 commands give or take |
| 19:18.22 | oxek | "is not more then 15 commands give or take" :) |
| 19:18.42 | oxek | that whole line could be a nice slogan for arch then :) |
| 19:19.18 | oxek | ok, I'm putting it on my todo list to install arch in a VM according to the installation guide on their wiki |
| 19:19.32 | oxek | maybe I'll learn something useful I can use to configure debian as well |
| 19:20.09 | Mathisen | i can give you my script if you want. it install arch in virtualbox automatic |
| 19:20.26 | Mathisen | or it is ment to run in a vbox vm |
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| 19:21.57 | Mister00X | just go straight to gentoo skip arch |
| 19:22.06 | oxek | Mister00X: there's a script for that? |
| 19:22.14 | aminvakil | don't use Mathisen script |
| 19:22.14 | Mathisen | oxek, https://bpa.st/ZD6Q |
| 19:22.22 | flrnd | oxek: or use Endevour, after the install you have a 100% arch |
| 19:22.38 | Mathisen | most things are written for my own personal needs so change what you want |
| 19:22.39 | Mister00X | oxek: somewhere there is for sure |
| 19:22.57 | aminvakil | arch install scripts will ruin the pleasure :) |
| 19:23.12 | oxek | I presume I run this script from the environment that's started by the arch .iso? |
| 19:23.19 | Mathisen | yep |
| 19:23.29 | oxek | thanks, I'll definitely use it for reference |
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| 19:23.49 | Mathisen | 2 files install.sh and chroot.sh just run install.sh and it does everthing |
| 19:25.31 | NetTerminalGene | oxek: it's better to find a local installation guide i think. i installed like that. and it's not that hard really |
| 19:26.06 | oxek | to be fair, a script like this would be pretty neat for debian as well. I know debian has some preseed functionality, but it doesn't let me setup the partitioning the way I'd like. |
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| 19:30.08 | alex11 | how can i search for test in a case-insensitive way in less |
| 19:30.19 | alex11 | like not using grep on a text, i mean within less |
| 19:30.29 | alex11 | how can i search for text* not test |
| 19:31.00 | greycat | less -i |
| 19:31.01 | oxek | Mathisen: echo 'root ALL=(ALL) ALL' > /etc/sudoers |
| 19:31.05 | oxek | that looks problematic |
| 19:31.21 | oxek | shouldn't there be a lot more stuff in sudoers file? You're overwriting it. |
| 19:31.51 | alex11 | -I looks to be more useful, to cover all cases |
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| 19:32.15 | greycat | use whichever one seems right to you |
| 19:32.51 | cws | that looks like a recipe for sudon't |
| 19:33.05 | Mathisen | oxek, typo should be >> so it appends |
| 19:33.20 | oxek | pretty dangerous typo in an install script :) |
| 19:33.28 | Mathisen | indeed :) |
| 19:34.35 | Mathisen | not sure why there is only > there but thanks for seeing that. now i wont mess up my next vm install |
| 19:35.20 | oxek | I mean, it will work, and sudo will pick up some defaults (if arch works like debian), you'll just miss setup of secure_path and env_reset |
| 19:35.26 | oxek | which is pretty important but not critical |
| 19:35.36 | oxek | hmm, maybe it is critical, depending on your security needs |
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| 20:07.11 | Sia- | hi, postfix installed and everythin works without getting mails from my domain to each other. for example from wordpress@chawg.org to webmaster@chawg.org never reaching but if change the receiver to gmail or any other works fine! |
| 20:07.23 | Sia- | here the logs |
| 20:07.26 | Sia- | https://dpaste.org/2NFm |
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| 20:27.54 | deadrom | hi |
| 20:28.58 | deadrom | deb10 server with nfs4 mount of a server that is down at the moment. all file ops retry forever, a simple ls on the mount point stalls the console. umount says "device is busy" - impossble, it's shut down |
| 20:29.05 | deadrom | how do I get out of this? |
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| 20:30.04 | imMute | sync, remount everything else as r/o, and then yank the power cable. (there's probably better ways) |
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| 20:30.39 | deadrom | :| |
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| 20:33.37 | genr8_ | is there really no such thing as "Section: base" anymore for the apt package source db? |
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| 20:34.33 | genr8_ | i know this is kind of like mindreading, but if that doesnt exist, then who knows what am I actually after ? The most minimal list of packages to get a system up and running |
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| 20:37.24 | Mister00X | genr8_: those are propably the essential packages |
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| 20:38.06 | jelly | deadrom, reboot |
| 20:38.25 | genr8_ | Essential: yes ? |
| 20:38.27 | genr8_ | hmm |
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| 20:39.07 | ramzy | hi |
| 20:39.32 | ramzy | anyone online |
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| 20:40.15 | ramzy | hi |
| 20:40.26 | ramzy | guys anyone? |
| 20:40.36 | imMute | only when you ask an actual question. |
| 20:40.55 | jelly | ramzy, no, but ask your question and someone will read it at some point |
| 20:41.27 | genr8_ | "Essential: yes" = base-files base-passwd bash bsdutils coreutils dash debianutils diffutils dpkg findutils grep gzip hostname init-system-helpers libc-bin login ncurses-base ncurses-bin perl-base sed sysvinit-utils tar util-linux |
| 20:41.40 | genr8_ | does that sound right enough ? |
| 20:41.52 | jelly | genr8_, there's a different set of packages to get a debootstrap chroot running, or to get a VM running, or to get a bare metal server running |
| 20:42.01 | genr8_ | mmmmmm |
| 20:42.07 | oxek | genr8_: aptitude search '?essential' |
| 20:42.08 | jelly | what are you trying to accomplish? |
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| 20:43.00 | jelly | !debootstrap |
| 20:43.01 | dpkg | debootstrap can create a basic Debian system from scratch, without apt/dpkg. Useful for installing in a <chroot>. It is key to installing Debian GNU/Linux from a Unix/Linux system. http://wiki.debian.org/Debootstrap - https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/apds03.en.html |
| 20:43.23 | ramzy | im tryna install debian on a vitualbox vm and it's not using a mirror (it cant find it) |
| 20:43.38 | oxek | ramzy: do you have networking? |
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| 20:43.56 | ramzy | oxek: yes NAT |
| 20:44.15 | jelly | ramzy, that usually means either network or name resoultion (dns) isn't set up properly, or you really don't have internet connectivity |
| 20:45.01 | Fenris | try http those works better than ftp |
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| 20:45.37 | Fenris | in my experience but if you look in your NAT try to activatye DHCP or assure the network works |
| 20:45.38 | greycat | debian no longer has FTP mirrors |
| 20:45.50 | ramzy | jelly: so whats the solution? |
| 20:46.00 | Fenris | well, thats a good reason i see |
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| 20:46.32 | genr8_ | ramzy, do you have overly restrictive Iptables rules on the host ? |
| 20:47.16 | ramzy | Fenris: i tried http networks will try DHCP rn one sec |
| 20:47.21 | jelly | ramzy, "make network work", does it work if you boot a live image? |
| 20:47.38 | ramzy | genr8_: no idea what that means |
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| 20:47.50 | ratrace | ramzy: is that on windows? |
| 20:47.51 | genr8_ | your firewall on the host |
| 20:47.54 | jelly | sneaks away |
| 20:48.12 | ramzy | ratrace: unfortintly yes |
| 20:48.32 | ratrace | snakes behind sneaking jelly and too disappears in a poof of jamaican smoke |
| 20:48.55 | genr8_ | this is most likely a virtualbox or network issue, not a debian issue |
| 20:50.00 | ramzy | genr8_: i have a kali vm and works just fine |
| 20:50.14 | genr8_ | what kind of IP does it get ? |
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| 20:53.15 | genr8_ | the VM should be set to DHCP and it should get an IP like 10.0.x.x |
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| 20:55.14 | ratrace | ramzy: try changing the network interface model, e1000 I think is what works most on virtualbox guests |
| 20:55.50 | genr8_ | thats what it is anyway. they call it "Intel Pro/1000 MT" |
| 20:57.49 | ratrace | genr8_: isn't there one more? maybe I remembered it wrong |
| 20:58.03 | ratrace | don't think there's virtio with windows hosts, is it? |
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| 21:00.24 | genr8_ | i forgot |
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| 21:04.57 | cws | ratrace: You can, but it requires drivers. |
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| 21:06.09 | metbsd | i'm wondering,if stable is using 4.19, and 4.19 was released 2018 october, does this mean it doesn't support well hardware after 2018 october? |
| 21:06.30 | ratrace | cws: for windows host? I know there's drivers if win is guest.... but not if win is host |
| 21:07.00 | ratrace | (ie. redhat's virtio drivers for windows guests, network and scsi disks) |
| 21:07.17 | ratrace | metbsd: more or less |
| 21:07.45 | cws | ratrace: OH, sorry, I thought we meant guest. |
| 21:07.49 | petn-randall | metbsd: Only to a certain extent. Intel for example gets their drivers merged into the kernel well before their hardware gets sold. So an older kernel will support their newer hardware. |
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| 21:10.55 | metbsd | but for laptop released in 2018, other distros are more suitable right? |
| 21:11.26 | metbsd | intel+nvidia cards are always an issue |
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| 21:18.26 | petn-randall | metbsd: It's your choice, but if anything on Debian doesn't work, I usually first try the kernel from backports before anything else. |
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| 21:19.50 | metbsd | backports only install kernel right? |
| 21:20.08 | flrnd | unless we're talking son bledding edge or rare hardware, if not work on debian won't work on other distros (and the other way around=) |
| 21:20.40 | petn-randall | !backports |
| 21:20.40 | dpkg | A backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications. http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch02.en.html (2.7.4 and 2.7.10), http://backports.debian.org/ . Ask me about <debian-backports> and <backport caveat>. See also <simple sid backport>. |
| 21:20.56 | petn-randall | metbsd: ^^^ You install the kernel from backports, if that's what your question is. |
| 21:21.06 | flrnd | some hardware vendors release firmware updates for their laptops, others don't. |
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| 21:22.01 | flrnd | I'd look for hardware issues, like intel+nvidia dgpus, it all depends if you just want install and forget (0 tinkerin) or you are willing to do some research |
| 21:22.16 | deadrom | 10 years ago when I build a media center of all dists out there it was debian who properly supported the intel hardware. not even ubuntu did. lasted for a decade. |
| 21:24.00 | deadrom | I hear some negativity recently about nvidia on linux. it still stands for me that if you want things to work in linux - go nvidia. was like that for me since... 2005? has that changed? |
| 21:24.22 | flrnd | yeah, many years ago I participated on a LAN party, I was in charge of an old proliant server (for a FTP to share stuff on the lan party) and I ended installing debian woody on that server after some fiascos |
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| 21:25.20 | metbsd | i'm having problem with intel+nvidia, because my hdmi port is on nvidia |
| 21:25.44 | metbsd | when i use intel only, there's no hdmi output. when i use hybrid mode, external monitor is very laggy. |
| 21:25.47 | flrnd | metbsd: I'm afraid I can't help you with that |
| 21:25.57 | metbsd | when i use nvidia only, display is fine, but laptop gets hot |
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| 21:26.51 | deadrom | oh, ye gods, an nvidia dev once introduced me to the finer details of how they handle that. but #nvidia is a good place for that *if* someone is around. got irc bouncer? :) |
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| 21:28.08 | flrnd | also, as much I love Debian, for that kind of setup I think I'd go with something that work out of the box |
| 21:28.47 | flrnd | (this laptop has Ubuntu installed X) |
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| 21:33.18 | deadrom | always use what works best. and while Canonical aims at a quick+easy install the intel+nvidia hybrid setups |
| 21:33.23 | deadrom | are one of a kind, really |
| 21:33.37 | flrnd | yeah |
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| 21:35.14 | deadrom | gotta run |
| 21:35.15 | metbsd | but my hdmi is attached to nvidia. that's the problem |
| 21:35.20 | metbsd | i don't game at all |
| 21:35.26 | deadrom | um |
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| 21:35.37 | deadrom | why is nv on hdmi a problem..? |
| 21:35.46 | metbsd | i don't really need that discret graphics card. but i need hdmi output |
| 21:35.49 | deadrom | oh, you mean: external monitor has to run on nv |
| 21:35.56 | metbsd | yes |
| 21:36.07 | deadrom | no option for that in BIOS? |
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| 21:36.19 | deadrom | what intel cpu is that, what laptop make/model? |
| 21:36.29 | metbsd | no.. |
| 21:36.32 | metbsd | lenovo y530 |
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| 21:36.38 | metbsd | 8300 i5 |
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| 21:38.52 | deadrom | oh man, you picked a diva, it seems. |
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| 21:38.57 | deadrom | https://gist.github.com/AnnoyingTechnology/45cbced6dd9e11fa714d3e0151be6717 |
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| 21:39.13 | deadrom | has plenty of comments on that, maybe the last post on xorg.conf has something? |
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| 21:40.11 | deadrom | middle actually. https://xkcd.com/963/ though. |
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| 21:40.27 | deadrom | ok, rly gtg. godspeed. |
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| 21:44.15 | EmleyMoor | Never mind XKCD/963, my ISP is compliant with both XKCD/806 and XKCD/936 |
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| 21:45.32 | genr8_ | this debootstrap and chroot stuff is cool |
| 21:46.34 | genr8_ | it seems to install too many packages though. |
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| 21:48.16 | genr8_ | debootstrap and cdebootstrap select all packages with Priority: required and Priority: important from the Debian mirror by default. |
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| 21:51.31 | genr8_ | https://dpaste.com/6WM36Q6Q9 |
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| 21:58.35 | genr8_ | i wonder why those two gcc packages there are "required" its only 4 doc files, README, TODO, changelog and copyright |
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| 22:18.46 | genr8_ | --variant=minbase helped |
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| 23:52.12 | storrgie | I am trying to install debian in UEFI mode on two M.2 with as much disk level redundancy as I can muster. I'm wondering if I'm not creating the proper partitions for grub to be happy. I'd made, on each drive, three partitions (one for EFI, one for boot, one for root) creating md(s) out of the partitions. Install seems to work fine, but at the end |
| 23:52.12 | storrgie | grub outputs `grub-install dummy failed` and I can't figure out what is going on. Is there a partition requirement for grub in EFI mode? |
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