| 00:00.02 | *** join/#debian magpi (~magpi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-10-4.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 00:04.11 | Apollyon | sney: itâs been stuck at this for an hour now https://pastebin.com/jXatWQVL |
| 00:05.09 | sney | ok, if you ctrl-c here and run 'apt -f install', what happens? |
| 00:07.05 | Apollyon | https://pastebin.com/TB0tULhk |
| 00:07.17 | Apollyon | Stuck at 43 percent |
| 00:07.39 | Apollyon | sney: ^ |
| 00:07.47 | sney | yes I see |
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| 00:08.10 | sney | do you have the download link handy for this package? it's probably doing something weird in one of the install scripts. |
| 00:08.34 | Apollyon | nope itâs just apt install google-compute-engine |
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| 00:09.07 | nicoz | i have a one error https://pastebin.com/haLdmbpC |
| 00:09.42 | sney | Apollyon: ah, it's actually a debian package. just a moment |
| 00:10.23 | Apollyon | I just want to stop it from trying to install at this point |
| 00:10.50 | sney | yes, and if we can tell what it's trying to do, then that should be easier |
| 00:16.24 | sney | ok, the postinst script (https://termbin.com/idy2) is trying to enable systemd units relating to the compute engine. do you have apparmor restricting that sort of thing, or a read-only disk, or anything else that might make this get stuck? |
| 00:17.38 | Apollyon | Iâm trying to control-c but itâs not letting me out |
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| 00:18.12 | Apollyon | Hold on a second |
| 00:18.19 | sney | open another tty and look at dmesg |
| 00:18.39 | Apollyon | It looks like apparmor is installed |
| 00:19.06 | sney | apparmor is installed by default on buster, but in 'complain' mode, so it should not restrict anything unless you set it to do so |
| 00:19.11 | sney | it just logs |
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| 00:19.43 | Apollyon | I havenât touched anything in apparmor |
| 00:19.57 | Apollyon | Nor have I ever needed too |
| 00:20.28 | Apollyon | so I donât know if thereâs something that was changed |
| 00:20.41 | Apollyon | dmesg isnât showing anything related to apparmor |
| 00:20.42 | sney | probably not, so consider the other suggestions after that one |
| 00:21.54 | Apollyon | Actually hold on |
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| 00:23.44 | Apollyon | sney: https://pastebin.com/JiCzR8WH |
| 00:24.29 | segamain | hey guys I installed wireshark and when open it nothing happens. When I open it with the terminnal it says: Main Warn could not connect to display Main Info Could not load the Qt platform plugin "xcb" in "" even though it was found. Aborted |
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| 00:24.58 | segamain | need help |
| 00:25.03 | sney | Apollyon: right, so where it says STATUS or ALLOWED that means apparmor is not doing anything here. so forget about apparmor and proceed to other possibilities. this is what I intended when I used the word "or". |
| 00:25.50 | sney | segamain: have you tried reading the manual, or watching a video tutorial about wireshark? |
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| 00:27.02 | segamain | I searched the problem on stack overflow but I can't find anything |
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| 00:27.48 | Apollyon | sney: itâs not a read-only disk either |
| 00:28.04 | sney | segamain: wireshark is a gui application. are you trying to run it from a text console, or ssh session, something like that? |
| 00:28.52 | segamain | sney: no dude |
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| 00:30.11 | segamain | sney: is this problem happening often with desktop pc's |
| 00:30.20 | sney | segamain: well "could not connect to display" and "could not load the qt platform" mean that wireshark is not able to connect to your X session and display a window. this may be a useful hint. |
| 00:31.01 | segamain | X session ?? |
| 00:32.25 | sney | yes, X, the thing that makes linux able to display graphics. aka x11, xorg, and so on. if you are using gnome on wayland, try logging out and select gnome on xorg instead. |
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| 00:33.12 | sney | Apollyon: when you looked at dmesg, was there any other recent output that looked like it might be an error? |
| 00:33.28 | Apollyon | sney: no |
| 00:33.42 | setuid | I've searched far and wide, and still can't find a consistent way to obtain the licensing information about a package, either from the package manifest, nor from the .deb itself. dpkg-query, dpkg-deb -I, dpkg --info, apt-cache show, apt-cache policy, /usr/share/doc/*/copyright, etc. |
| 00:34.03 | setuid | Is licensing information really not _mandatory_, and captured as part of every package's metadata? |
| 00:34.16 | setuid | Similar to version, maintainer, Filename, etc.? |
| 00:36.53 | sney | Apollyon: is the disk or memory full? |
| 00:37.33 | Apollyon | sney: I hope not |
| 00:37.45 | sney | 'df -h' and 'free -m' will tell you for either |
| 00:38.01 | Apollyon | Though I wouldnât be shocked if google tried to find some excuse to use all of my 32GB of ram |
| 00:38.10 | setuid | For example, alsa-utils: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/d3d3b296/ |
| 00:38.10 | setuid | Which license is that licensed under? Multiple? How do I query that across the 50k+ .deb files in a local mirror? |
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| 00:40.17 | sney | setuid: GPL-2 and LGPL-2 depending on which files, as defined by the copyright format linked at the top. some packages have more than one license but all are supposed to have a debian/copyright file describing them. if a package is missing that file it's likely a bug |
| 00:40.43 | setuid | sney: then there are thousands without a defined license |
| 00:41.10 | setuid | I whipped up a bit of Python to parse every copyright file in 'main' repos, and there are thousands missing a '^License:' match |
| 00:41.32 | segamain | what's wayland ?? and how should I log out of it ?? I just have a pc with debian gnome desktop I've got no servers... no nothing |
| 00:41.34 | setuid | 93,184 separate deb files in 'main' alone |
| 00:42.01 | sney | hm, that might be an older package format. I suggest asking in #debian-mentors on OFTC (note, right now you are on freenode) as that's where you'll find people well versed in this internal stuff |
| 00:43.01 | sney | segamain: go to the gnome menu, choose log out, then when you enter your password to log back in, there will be a little menu next to the login button. click that menu, and select gnome (xorg) or however it's written. |
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| 00:44.26 | Apollyon | if I didnât know for a fact I wasnât, I would think Iâm using sid repos |
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| 00:45.58 | setuid | sney: Seems even common packages like 'bash' don't programmatically declare their license, everyone includes a free-form 'copyright' file, some blank, some parseable, some just copies of upstream license.txt, some random text files (like the above alsa-utils) |
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| 00:46.42 | setuid | I'm shocked there's no policy statement saying that licensing per-package has to be clear, up-front and machine-parseable |
| 00:46.52 | segamain | sney: thanks a lot man |
| 00:47.05 | HannaM | not important enough (yet) .. |
| 00:47.09 | segamain | *happy linux noises |
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| 00:47.36 | setuid | HannaM: Was that for me? |
| 00:47.40 | HannaM | yep |
| 00:48.08 | HannaM | otherwise it would have been implemented and would be enforced |
| 00:48.48 | sney | setuid: https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-docs.html#s-copyrightfile indeed, machine-readable copyright is "optional" according to policy. it does have to be declared though. |
| 00:49.34 | setuid | sney: So if a company/customer says: "Where can I find a list of all licenses for all packages, so I can confirm we're in compliance", there's nothing. |
| 00:49.42 | sney | when I was maintaining a package, the copyright format you saw with alsa-utils was the standard practice, and what I used. but that was probably not how it was originally, and it may have changed again, idk. |
| 00:49.53 | setuid | No list exists, and without unpacking every .deb, or installing them, you can't obtain the license information for packages in the repo, not-yet-installed. |
| 00:50.01 | sney | again, #debian-mentors on the other network will get you more authoritative answers to this. I'm just another user with some information. |
| 00:50.33 | setuid | Of course... and I've been here going on... 23+ years (back when this was OPN, then Linpeople before that)... not my first rodeo :) |
| 00:50.43 | setuid | I'll pop over to OFTC |
| 00:52.29 | Apollyon | Maybe I should head over there as well |
| 00:52.58 | Apollyon | At this point I might end up needing to reinstall Debian which I really donât want to do |
| 00:53.05 | sney | Apollyon: -mentors is not for user support. did you check your disk/memory? |
| 00:53.27 | Apollyon | Not mentors but the main channel on OFTC |
| 00:53.36 | Apollyon | also like I said it isnât |
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| 00:53.50 | Apollyon | I have 32GB of ram and itâs not using it |
| 00:54.01 | sney | you said you hoped not, and then made a comment about sid |
| 00:54.46 | Apollyon | sorry I was being a tad bit snarky there |
| 00:54.48 | Apollyon | no it isnât |
| 00:55.04 | Apollyon | Debian is using 700MB out of the 32GB |
| 00:55.21 | sney | actually, I just confirmed your issue. I tried installing google-compute-engine on a buster vm and it's stuck too, though at a different point in the install process |
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| 00:55.34 | Apollyon | And the disk space is 22G out of 2TB |
| 00:56.24 | Apollyon | So ram/hdd isnât being overloaded |
| 00:57.38 | Apollyon | Also the comment about sid is because I expect the stable packages to you know not break my system |
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| 00:58.11 | sney | yes, it's just wasted here since #debian is a support channel, not a development channel |
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| 00:59.53 | jmcnaught | The issue is that google-compute-engine gets stuck while installing? |
| 01:00.41 | Apollyon | yes |
| 01:00.44 | sney | yes. I'm looking at ps output and it's trying to start services, running a few python3 scripts |
| 01:00.53 | sney | I'm starting to smell a network timeout, maybe dns |
| 01:01.17 | jmcnaught | Are you installing it on a GCE instance? |
| 01:01.46 | sney | Apollyon: that question is for you |
| 01:01.51 | Apollyon | I think it got caught in my catch all install |
| 01:02.27 | jmcnaught | Apollyon: the package's description leads me to believe that it is meant only to be used on GCE virtual machines |
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| 01:02.46 | Apollyon | iâm aware what it does |
| 01:03.13 | Apollyon | Ohh it got caught in from ruby |
| 01:03.15 | sney | ok, I was able to interrupt the install by killing the underlying python3 processes |
| 01:03.29 | Apollyon | sney: Iâve been doing the same |
| 01:04.15 | sney | that would have been useful information from the start :P |
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| 01:04.53 | Apollyon | I used a new terminal and killed the python pid |
| 01:04.59 | Apollyon | If thatâs what you meant |
| 01:05.19 | Apollyon | Thatâs the only way to get it to close it |
| 01:05.34 | Apollyon | Control+C Control+D nothing works |
| 01:05.50 | ryouma` | i am not good at holding down mouse buttons. in firefox it used to be that you could rclick and release to get context menu, somewhat. now, you have to rclick and hold and then select the item. is this firefox question or debian question? and can it be changed? thanks. |
| 01:06.08 | sney | ok, and now while running 'apt -f install' I also killed the systemctl stop process for the google services, and then it was able to remove the rest of the packages. |
| 01:06.22 | Apollyon | ok |
| 01:06.28 | Apollyon | Let me give that a try |
| 01:06.49 | sney | it does really seem like a bug that this would get stuck when installed in error on a non-GCE VM though. |
| 01:07.24 | jmcnaught | ryouma`: single right-click (without holding) to get firefox-esr's context menu for me on buster |
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| 01:08.04 | machine_1490 | Well, I tried the old kernel and tried opening up the machine, but the laptop is so compact that I found nothing. Sigh. |
| 01:08.10 | ryouma` | that's great. on stretch it requires holding. |
| 01:08.17 | ryouma` | jmcnaught: thanks for testing |
| 01:09.11 | machine_1490 | So, should I worry too much about these mce errors? The long boot time renders the ssd almost useless, but other than that the machine seems fine. Any other ideas? |
| 01:09.33 | Apollyon | sney: it worked |
| 01:09.56 | Apollyon | I was able to remove it by killing systemctl as well |
| 01:10.06 | Apollyon | thank you so much |
| 01:10.19 | sney | machine_1490: oxek is likely correct that you have a hardware issue, so if your laptop is new as you said, you might want to look into a warranty claim. |
| 01:10.47 | machine_1490 | sney It was bought used, but in new condition. |
| 01:10.48 | sney | Apollyon: no problem, glad we got it sorted. |
| 01:11.40 | sney | machine_1490: see if the mfg will honor the warranty anyway? or hit up ebay for a new motherboard? or just keep using it until it really dies. all out of scope for #debian of course |
| 01:12.16 | sney | Apollyon: what ruby package was it that brought this in as a dependency? |
| 01:12.18 | oxek | ryouma`: have a look at ui.context_menus.after_mouseup |
| 01:12.25 | machine_1490 | I'll just be sure to do good backups! |
| 01:12.30 | oxek | ryouma`: maybe set it to true and see if it makes a difference |
| 01:13.45 | ryouma` | will try |
| 01:13.57 | machine_1490 | Well, thanks all. Cheers! |
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| 01:15.26 | ryouma` | oxek: it works. thank you. |
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| 01:15.44 | ryouma` | amazing |
| 01:15.58 | oxek | yeah, firefox makes some strange default choices on linux compared to windows |
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| 01:18.17 | ryouma` | i thought it might be a gtk issues |
| 01:18.22 | ryouma` | s/s// |
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| 01:24.05 | ryouma` | with the toggled setting, it no longer allows you to do both, but i can get used to that |
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| 01:36.44 | baconicsynergy | Hey everyone! Are we planning on having GNOME 40 in the next stable release? I would cry tears of joy |
| 01:37.30 | dvs | baconicsynergy: if it isn't in bullseye now, it probably won't. |
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| 01:39.33 | Unit193 | baconicsynergy: 3.38.4, looks like. |
| 01:40.10 | baconicsynergy | There's always next time! |
| 01:40.27 | baconicsynergy | Still gonna stick with Debian <3 |
| 01:40.29 | dvs | Nope. This is the last Debian. ;-) |
| 01:40.35 | baconicsynergy | lmao :p |
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| 01:54.14 | oxek | this is the last debian release, before debian moves onto a rolling-release schedule |
| 01:54.38 | dvs | ??? |
| 01:54.43 | oxek | it's a bad joke |
| 01:54.49 | dvs | It's not April 1st!! |
| 01:54.55 | oxek | my hwclock is slow |
| 01:55.00 | sney | debian-as-a-service |
| 01:55.01 | dvs | heh |
| 01:55.07 | dvs | Fix your time zone. |
| 01:55.30 | oxek | can't, tzdata is in buster-updates and I don't have that repo enabled |
| 01:55.54 | ryouma` | it would be quite a time zone. perhaps a slow-orbiting spacecraft or so. |
| 01:56.04 | Unit193 | If you use unstable, it's mostly rolling until freeze comes along. Then everything grinds to a halt... |
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| 02:17.17 | alex11 | i would stop using it lol |
| 02:17.24 | alex11 | i like how i can be lazy with stable |
| 02:21.26 | EdePopede | debian should have done it like everyone else, stay on 10, but calling it X instead, and then start releasing only updates to it. |
| 02:22.43 | sney | if something like that ever happened, it'd only be after a -devel flamewar that'd make the systemd debacle look like a nice little picnic |
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| 03:14.46 | dannylee | 00.01.11.10.00.11 |
| 03:16.04 | dannylee | hi homo sapian... |
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| 03:24.43 | baconicsynergy | what would happen if I won the lottery and donated hundreds of millions of dollars to Debian? |
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| 03:29.25 | sney | probably some infrastructure upgrades, maybe an overhaul of some neglected services, but debian already has pretty good funding. the thing the project is usually looking for is more contributions of work, rather than money |
| 03:32.08 | somiaj | and would probably actively resist the conicle/ubuntu modle of having some central body fund the work. |
| 03:33.18 | sney | I was assuming that the hundreds of millions of dollars would go to SPI, like any conventional donation |
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| 03:37.38 | baconicsynergy | I could create an open-source scholarship for beginner programmers to go to college! Hell yeah |
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| 03:45.42 | EdePopede | elogordo.debian.org - better let's assemble the forces. |
| 03:51.52 | cws | baconicsynergy: traditional university education is not always the best route to becoming a programmer. Remember that. |
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| 03:52.52 | sney | plus, it's not like there's a shortage of nerds going to school for CS/CEng. |
| 03:57.20 | wyoung | sney: They are skewed to being male though |
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| 03:59.44 | wyoung | You lose a bit of diversity there. |
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| 04:07.59 | sney | it's true, I remember the pitch when I visited RIT many years ago, that there were more dudes named "steve" in the cs programs than there were women, at all |
| 04:08.36 | sney | I would hope it's better now than it was in the early days of this century, but undoubtedly still needs work |
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| 04:24.15 | dannylee | 0K my real mother is russian...but she really rich...if i kill her ill then be rich t00...but i never kill any one yet.i want to make custom pool cues with all my time... |
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| 04:26.19 | rustyshackleford | Btrfs or not to Btrfs? |
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| 04:27.35 | sney | if you like the features, and you're not affected by the reds/yellows on https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Status then why not |
| 04:27.38 | sney | I haven't yet though |
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| 04:27.58 | somiaj | Do you have a very specific reason you want btrfs that makes it worth it? ext4 is decent enough in most cases and is the tried and tested standard, and without strong reasons for needing btrfs, I think it is best to stick with the standard |
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| 04:28.32 | rustyshackleford | somiaj: not really no |
| 04:28.45 | rustyshackleford | I wanna play around with drive configurations I guess |
| 04:28.53 | rustyshackleford | redundancy and stuff like that |
| 04:29.11 | somiaj | rustyshackleford: note, want to try/test it out could be a reason to use it, but for most it probably won't matter what file system they use |
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| 04:29.29 | rustyshackleford | and figure out a clean workflow for backups. I know this is a bit outside the scope of the file system format |
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| 04:29.58 | somiaj | that is a decent feature to think about, many use lvm for that, but that is also why zfs has its users |
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| 04:31.16 | rustyshackleford | somiaj: so many options! |
| 04:31.29 | rustyshackleford | does the type of filesystem enable easier/better backups somehow? |
| 04:31.50 | rustyshackleford | I have an offline drive. occasionally I plug it in and sync |
| 04:31.59 | rustyshackleford | with copy and paste lol |
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| 04:32.06 | sney | some filesystems let you back up snapshots of their current state, which can be better than a straight file backup |
| 04:32.10 | sney | but it depends on what you are doing |
| 04:32.16 | somiaj | some filesystems have built in snapshot support which can provide a type of backup. Though this does depend on your backup model |
| 04:32.25 | rustyshackleford | plex server. mostly videos |
| 04:32.54 | sney | probably no significant benefit in using snapshots over regular tar/rsync for large media files |
| 04:33.17 | rustyshackleford | a guy in another channel had some kind of redundancy configuration. And his backup was to swap out one redundant drive (new offline copy) |
| 04:33.30 | rustyshackleford | and replace with another drive |
| 04:33.49 | sney | that sounds like what used to be the standard approach with tapes |
| 04:33.50 | rustyshackleford | some have suggested this is abusing the filesystem by forcing it to repair itself like this |
| 04:34.47 | sney | I don't know about "abusing" but the rebuild process would take significant time every time you do it |
| 04:35.07 | sney | regardless of whether it's btrfs, or zfs, or regular md raid handling the mirror |
| 04:35.14 | rustyshackleford | the process of rotating in drives is pretty slick I thought |
| 04:35.23 | rustyshackleford | the manual effort involved is pretty small |
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| 04:37.09 | sney | I could see it abusing the disks a bit, if the volume has high usage |
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| 04:39.10 | sney | disks AB in a mirror with C as spare. remove B, replace with C. filesystem copies A to C, resulting in mirror AC with backup B. time passes, remove A, replace with B, now A is the backup. filesystem overwrites B with all of C's data, resulting in mirror BC. |
| 04:39.28 | sney | the SSD write cap is mostly a myth these days, but this would be an effective way to check |
| 04:40.18 | rustyshackleford | sney: well, how can I improve on my current system? which is an external drive that connects over usb? |
| 04:40.31 | sney | just use borgbackup with your existing arrangement, probably |
| 04:40.35 | rustyshackleford | I might be overcomplicating this lol |
| 04:40.37 | sney | ,i borgbackup |
| 04:40.41 | judd | Package borgbackup (admin, optional) in buster/amd64: deduplicating and compressing backup program. Version: 1.1.9-2+deb10u1; Size: 637.0k; Installed: 2526k; Homepage: https://borgbackup.github.io/borgbackup/; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/borgbackup |
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| 04:44.55 | rustyshackleford | I was planning on using rsync |
| 04:45.03 | rustyshackleford | never heard of that one though. I'll read up on it |
| 04:45.37 | sney | my offsite backups still use rsync too, but I've been planning to upgrade to borgbackup |
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| 04:47.36 | rustyshackleford | do you backup to a cloud storage service or something like that? |
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| 04:48.12 | sney | yep, I use rsync.net |
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| 04:50.22 | rustyshackleford | sney: 25 bucks a month for a terrabyte |
| 04:50.24 | rustyshackleford | that's not bad |
| 04:51.09 | sney | and if you pay slightly extra they distribute your volume to all of their datacenters, zfs can be magic sometimes |
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| 04:53.22 | rustyshackleford | I've debated just running this in AWS |
| 04:53.38 | rustyshackleford | or similar place I can get a VPN and reasonable storage for ~1TB |
| 04:53.51 | sney | there are a lot of options. |
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| 04:58.27 | rustyshackleford | sney: 1TB of Cold HDD storage in amazon is 15 bucks |
| 04:58.39 | somiaj | aws also offers just a storage option if you don't need the vm/compute time |
| 04:58.41 | sney | downside: in amazon |
| 04:58.57 | rustyshackleford | somiaj: EBS is what I'm looking for right? |
| 04:59.08 | rustyshackleford | I will want a relatively small VPS also |
| 04:59.26 | abff | amazon is so evil |
| 04:59.36 | rustyshackleford | its like walmart |
| 04:59.46 | rustyshackleford | I know that, but I still shop there. low low prices, who can resist? |
| 05:00.02 | abff | just start |
| 05:00.03 | sney | I'm not really concerned with ``evil'' but their lawyers could decide one day that the storage service isn't making money, and bam, down it goes |
| 05:00.07 | abff | its like an addiction |
| 05:00.15 | sney | at least with rsync.net that's the only business |
| 05:00.39 | abff | I stopped paying amazon anything, after all that union busting |
| 05:00.41 | sney | this is pretty ot though. |
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| 05:03.38 | rustyshackleford | I could also try to do something like... spin up this server on demand |
| 05:04.04 | rustyshackleford | so I'm not charged for the time the server is just sitting idle |
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| 06:07.37 | maxrazer | Is there some way to prevent key combinations using the meta key from leading through to applications if they aren't bound to any function with i3 or sxhkd? |
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| 06:20.28 | somiaj | Most likely not, window managers will just pass key events to the wm then to the application. |
| 06:21.12 | somiaj | Unsure about i3, but if i3 supports application specific keybindings, could you just define a keybinding that does nothing for the applications you want to block? Or disable the keybinding int he application itself? |
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| 06:28.24 | maxrazer | I could try creating dummy key bindings. But, I would hope simple x hot key daemon or something would have a better way. |
| 06:29.16 | somiaj | Unsure if a daemon would help, and have abilities i3 doens't. In fvwm there is the 'Nop' operation which does nothing, so you can bind stuff to that, the wm takes the event, but does nothing |
| 06:29.27 | somiaj | if i3 dosen't have something similar, maybe a keybinding dameon would |
| 06:29.56 | somiaj | though this smells like an xy problem, why do you want to block these key bindings? And why not just fix the application vs find a work around? |
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| 06:34.11 | jersten | when creating a file server, should I just make a very small partition for the OS? That way the rest of the drive that it's on, can be dedicated to storage |
| 06:34.50 | somiaj | that's one approach, this keeps the data separate from the os so it is easy to reinstall the os without messing with the data |
| 06:35.21 | jersten | Is that usually a problem? Debian is supposed to be rock solid, after all. |
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| 06:36.09 | somiaj | not really, it just provides that option, also might depend on your backup model, if you say use lvm snapshots, or some backup method like that, having a single partition with all the data you want to backup can help |
| 06:36.21 | somiaj | so there are advantages to that approach, but it isn't a requirement. |
| 06:36.56 | jersten | Ok next question: Is it possible for the file server's hardware to slow down file transfer speeds? I'll be using an old dual core Core2duo cpu, and 4Gb of DDr2 RAM. |
| 06:37.00 | somiaj | at some level it is just personal choice of how you choose or orginze your data |
| 06:38.04 | somiaj | What type of hdd, i/o will often be the biggest bottle neck (unless you have so much simutanous use you fill up memory, which then causes things to swap, thus making i/o your bottle neck even more so) |
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| 06:40.06 | somiaj | My guess is an ssd would be a bigger boost for that than cpu/ram, as I suspect the i/o will be the biggest bottle neck (but a lot does depend on ussage, how many people are using this file server, might also depend on file size, etc (memeory can help with file system caching for instance could speed things up) |
| 06:40.11 | jersten | Well I bought a 4Tb HDD. So it's probably a lot faster than the one that came in that old computer. |
| 06:40.13 | somiaj | but only if files are repeatedly used. |
| 06:40.51 | jersten | It will only be me using it from time to time. I want to store large video files on it. |
| 06:40.52 | somiaj | I would still suspect since it sounds like a spinning hd, the read/write speeds of the hd will be the biggest bottle neck |
| 06:41.24 | jersten | Ok so don't worry about the old hardware. My router can only transfer at 10Mb per second over wifi anyway |
| 06:42.21 | somiaj | yea, I hadn't considered wifi, was thinking more standard wired interfaces. It is an older cpu so do expect some things to be slower. What sort of method are you using to share files |
| 06:43.10 | somiaj | for instance using some encryption (like ssh) will cause some cpu work more than just pure file transfer, but overall my very limited experience is often i/o (and in your case wifi) will be the biggest bottleneck |
| 06:44.34 | jersten | I just transfer the files via wifi to the other recipient computer by clicking and dragging the file onto the desktop |
| 06:44.38 | somiaj | though core2duos are quite old, I'm only guessing, but I still think you will get reasonable read/write speeds (provided the server isn't doing much else) |
| 06:44.57 | jersten | I'm just trying to build a file server that will won't be slower than my router. |
| 06:45.04 | somiaj | you can't transfer via wifi, you need some protocol, you doing this with a windows share, so samba? |
| 06:45.25 | somiaj | you using nfs, ssh (for sftp/scp type transfers)? |
| 06:46.08 | jersten | I'm a pretty big newbie, so I'm not actually sure. I haven't built the server yet, and I haven't decided on the OS. I'm considering Debian because it's a server OS |
| 06:46.36 | jersten | Also considering Ubuntu server because it looks very easy to set up |
| 06:46.40 | somiaj | The actual method of file transfer may add a little bit of cpu overhead, but still I suspect your wifi network will be the biggest bottleneck, and i/o speeds the second (even on that old of hardware) |
| 06:46.48 | somiaj | well here I was talking about the os of the machines you want to share with |
| 06:47.14 | jersten | I want to share with a manjaro linux computer, and a windows 10 computer |
| 06:47.20 | jersten | So samba will for sure be in use |
| 06:47.24 | somiaj | if you want to share with windows machines, then you'll maybe want to use samba, this could cause a bit of cpu ussage to setup standard window shares |
| 06:47.54 | somiaj | I can't really say if that old of hardware is going to slow down due to the cpu, maybe try and look at the speeds you get, but my guess is you'll be fine if the server is only setup for samba |
| 06:48.24 | jersten | Would a quad core CPU help? Can all of this type of software make use of 4 cores? |
| 06:48.26 | somiaj | but ram seems reasonable, server install/upgrdes might be slower than you are use to |
| 06:49.13 | somiaj | I can't really say, a lot depends on overall ussage. Samba will require some cpu usage, but I personally can't see it slowing things down slower than your network, i/o speeds will be |
| 06:49.47 | somiaj | I don't htink more cores would help for a single user |
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| 06:50.50 | jersten | Yeah it's just a home network |
| 06:51.04 | somiaj | sounds like a reasonable use for an older machien to me |
| 06:51.21 | jersten | The router is a Linksys EA 6500. I've seen it do 40Mb per second over wifi, but that didn't last long before it throttled down to 10Mb per second |
| 06:52.26 | jersten | I just don't want it to be slow as molasses. Even 10Mbps is pretty slow imo. If it slows down to 3 or 4Mbps because of the old sever hardware, I don't even want to build the sever. |
| 06:53.02 | somiaj | the nice thing about debian (or linux here), is you could probably just move the hd into a better machine if that ends up being the case |
| 06:53.05 | somiaj | but I think you'll be fine |
| 06:53.48 | somiaj | so your work won't be fully lost, also using 5g (if close enough to the router) can speed things up |
| 06:53.59 | somiaj | I personally just use wires on many of my mahcines if I can get away with it too |
| 06:54.21 | jersten | Yeah I like to use wires, but some of my machines are just too far away |
| 06:54.40 | jersten | Or I'd have to run wires all up through my attic and I'd really rather not have to do all that |
| 06:56.36 | jersten | thank you for the help, too tired, can't continue. Have to go to sleep now. Goodbye! |
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| 07:55.03 | Fish-Guts | hi. not sure it's the right place. i'm trying to set up thelounge using a reserve proxy on my apache2 server. i defined the rewriterules but i'm getting a 404. this is my apache config: https://paste.debian.net/1193046/ - any ideas` |
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| 08:13.33 | dostoyevsky | Are RemoveIPC=yes and KillUserProcesses=yes still a default in recent debian systems? I haven't noticed my processes being killed on servers after closing the last login shell in a while... |
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| 08:14.26 | dostoyevsky | (systemd logind.conf settings) |
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| 08:42.44 | ndorf | dostoyevsky: RemoveIPC=yes KillUserProcesses=no by default on my buster system |
| 08:43.09 | ndorf | default logind.conf shows the compile-time defaults, commented out |
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| 08:47.07 | Pepper | hallo |
| 08:47.10 | Pepper | some one here |
| 08:47.29 | luna | yeah |
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| 08:49.14 | Pepper | Luna can you tell my simple web monitor for debianlike ez server monitor |
| 08:49.24 | Pepper | have problem whith cockpit |
| 08:49.30 | luna | webmin |
| 08:50.00 | Pepper | can you help me whith cockpit |
| 08:50.02 | Pepper | ? |
| 08:50.14 | luna | never used it sorry |
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| 08:53.59 | dostoyevsky | ndorf: Ah, yeah, makes sense... So I still have to be wary of RemoveIPC=yes |
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| 08:56.47 | Lope | I did this `echo 'blacklist bluetooth' > /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf; update-initramfs -u; shutdown -r now` but the bluetooth module is still running? |
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| 09:00.47 | Pepper | some one can help whith cockpit |
| 09:00.50 | Pepper | Internal error in login process |
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| 09:06.00 | Lyberta | how do I revert config files of a package? |
| 09:07.02 | tpo2 | Is there an install image using a v5 kernel? I have a Laptop with a NVMe controller that is only supported from linux >= 5.5 on. I see there are buster-backports linux 5.10 kernels, but I haven't yet found an installer with them? |
| 09:07.31 | tpo2 | Lyberta, you mean once you have installed a package and let it replace the config files with new ones? |
| 09:07.55 | Lyberta | tpo2, with default ones |
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| 09:08.27 | Pepper | tpo2 can you help me |
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| 09:08.58 | tpo2 | I have found https://github.com/imranh2/debian-cd-bpokernel but as I understand that only builds an image for CD ROMs and not an image for UEFI? |
| 09:08.59 | Lope | looks like they've changed something... /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf doesn't work anymore, it must be called /etc/modprobe.d/$modulename.conf apparently. |
| 09:09.33 | tpo2 | Lyberta, so you've installed a package and let it replace the configs with the default configs? |
| 09:09.36 | tpo2 | Pepper, ask |
| 09:09.44 | Pepper | can you help me whith cockpit |
| 09:09.48 | Pepper | https://fromhell.ee:9090/ |
| 09:10.09 | Pepper | have this problem |
| 09:11.21 | ratrace | Lope: "anymore"? in buster at least, the filename is arbitrary |
| 09:11.30 | tpo2 | Pepper, what problem? |
| 09:11.37 | ratrace | Lope: I think it only has to be a .conf |
| 09:11.52 | Lope | ratrace, see the link bro https://wiki.debian.org/KernelModuleBlacklisting |
| 09:11.54 | Pepper | tpo2 Internal error in login process |
| 09:12.04 | Lope | Some filenames in that dir aren't capable of blacklisting stuff |
| 09:12.20 | Lope | is it enough to just blacklist bluetooth, or do I need to blacklist all of it's possible dependencies? |
| 09:12.22 | tpo2 | Pepper, log into that machine and have a look at the log files under /var/log |
| 09:12.25 | ratrace | Lope: no, the wiki doesn't state it _has_ to be $modulename |
| 09:12.37 | ratrace | Lope: and I'm 100% sure it doesn't because I have various names that work |
| 09:12.44 | Lope | As mentioned in the comment headers in /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf adding modules there ...does not affect autoloading of modules by the kernel. |
| 09:12.50 | Lope | You're right |
| 09:12.57 | Lope | but see my quote 3 lines up |
| 09:13.05 | Lope | blacklist.conf ironically can't blacklist anything. |
| 09:13.19 | Lope | I know this is correct, cos I did it, and it didn't work. |
| 09:13.23 | ratrace | blacklist.con is not a special name |
| 09:13.25 | ratrace | *conf |
| 09:13.30 | Lope | <Lope> I did this `echo 'blacklist bluetooth' > /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf; update-initramfs -u; shutdown -r now` but the bluetooth module is still running? |
| 09:13.40 | ratrace | you can have whatever name you want, with "blacklist <modulename>" contents |
| 09:13.49 | Lope | Apparently it is bro, read the link? https://wiki.debian.org/KernelModuleBlacklisting |
| 09:13.57 | Pepper | tpo2 there is no cockpit logs |
| 09:14.09 | ratrace | Lope: the modprobe blacklist only affects direct loading, it wont' block loading as dependency, if I'm not mistaken |
| 09:14.24 | ratrace | Lope: also are you sure that's the name? isn't it bluez or something like that? |
| 09:14.30 | Lope | oh, so I should blacklist all the dependencies? |
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| 09:14.46 | Lope | it's definitely bluetooth |
| 09:14.51 | Lope | lsmod | grep bluetooth shows it there. |
| 09:15.03 | Lope | bluez is a apt package. |
| 09:15.10 | Lope | a good one to purge. |
| 09:15.25 | Pepper | Lope , maby you can hep whith cockpit |
| 09:15.40 | Lope | ratrace, did you hear about the non-interactive remote root exploit with bluez/kernel recently? |
| 09:15.55 | ratrace | Very nice, the manpage for modprobe.d is broken.... talks about "alias" under "blacklist" |
| 09:16.20 | ratrace | Lope: there was something few weeks ago that crossed my radar, but as I don't use bt anywhere, I didn't pay much attention |
| 09:16.40 | Lope | Yeah, i've pretty much never used it. I don't 2.4ghz. |
| 09:17.09 | Pepper | ratrace , can i have help from you |
| 09:17.18 | tpo2 | Pepper, what I would do is reload that cockpit page and then `ls -latr /var/log` and then look at all the logs that have been changed recently |
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| 09:17.26 | ratrace | Pepper: no |
| 09:17.51 | Lope | Pepper, i don't know what cockpit is, but asking for help without stating your problem won't work. |
| 09:18.13 | ratrace | Lope: what does the lsmod say, is there a module with bluetooth as dependency (used by column)? |
| 09:18.17 | Lope | If you want help you have to make it as easy as possible for people to help you. |
| 09:18.32 | Lope | Don't ask them to drive to your house and do it for you. |
| 09:18.32 | Pepper | tpo2, no there log |
| 09:18.58 | tpo2 | Pepper, there are logs of course. Did you look at all those that changed recently? |
| 09:19.02 | Lope | ratrace, I nuked them all |
| 09:19.10 | Pepper | tpo2 yes |
| 09:19.10 | Lope | rmmod btusb btrtl btintel btbcm bluetooth |
| 09:19.12 | ratrace | Pepper: also, please don't solicit help from anyone. post your problem and if anyone can help, they will. it may require re-posting after a while. also keep in mind cockpit is rarely used in debian, it's mostly a fedora thing |
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| 09:20.04 | Pepper | tpo2 systemctl show it is active |
| 09:20.06 | tpo2 | Pepper, so which ones changed recently? Also, if you do `netstat -anp|grep 9090` which process is serving that page? |
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| 09:20.44 | tpo2 | Pepper, so what about `journalctl -xe` does it contain hints? |
| 09:20.50 | Pepper | tpo2 i can connect to 9090 but when i join show cockpit etc,,, but Internal error in login process |
| 09:20.59 | Pepper | no login and pass |
| 09:21.09 | tpo2 | Pepper, I know that, what about the netstat thing above? |
| 09:21.30 | Pepper | netstat is open |
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| 09:22.09 | tpo2 | Pepper, did you go through this? https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=cockpit+%22Internal+error+in+login+process%22&ia=web |
| 09:22.49 | Pepper | i try |
| 09:22.56 | Pepper | but same problem |
| 09:23.55 | ratrace | Lope: looks like the modprobe.d blacklist won't prevent manual loading (using modprobe command), which could be issued by processes, and yeah, won't block loading as a dependency. |
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| 09:25.07 | tpo2 | Pepper, you need to do some debugging yourself I'd say. We aren't magicians that can swing a magic wand and solve all your problems. |
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| 09:26.41 | Arahael | Just been playing with debian after a long break. It's astonishing how fast it is with xfce, even when running in a VM on macos (on M1), at least compared to the host macos. :) |
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| 09:30.09 | tpo2 | OK, I'll try to attack my problem at hand from a different angle: the debian installer tells me that it can't find the CDROM (which is correct, there isn't one, I've booted from an USB stick). When I look into the partions on the stick there is /dev_sda/efi/boot/bootx64.efi. Can that file be mounted or looked into or something? |
| 09:31.57 | Arahael | tpo2: It's been a long time - years - but there should be a reference in the apt.sources file to it, and the "cdrom" can be configured by... something else in the apt system. |
| 09:33.55 | dob1 | in /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-nvidia-nouveau.conf I have blacklist nouveau and options nouveau modeset=0 why it continues to load the module? |
| 09:34.30 | tpo2 | Arahael, thanks, that's what I'm actually trying to achieve. However as far as I can see the boot stick only contains those two efi files (bootx64.efi and grubx64.efi) and I wonder how I manage to mount them somewhere so that the installer can retrieve what it needs from them? |
| 09:34.43 | dob1 | I want it uses vesa drivers |
| 09:34.59 | Lyberta | tpo2, if you've booted from USB stick then that file was already executed to start debian installer |
| 09:35.08 | tpo2 | (the boot image also contains a grub.cfg) |
| 09:35.28 | tpo2 | Lyberta, yup, however the installer tells me it can't find the CDROM, so what do I do now? |
| 09:35.33 | Lyberta | what do you want from grub? |
| 09:36.07 | tpo2 | Lyberta, see above, I need to give the installer what it needs, i.e. mount the contents of the stick under /cdrom) |
| 09:36.29 | Lyberta | tpo2, is it a deadend? I've been installing debian via debootstrap so I forgot how debian installer works |
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| 09:37.20 | tpo2 | Lyberta, yep deadend |
| 09:37.47 | tpo2 | Lyberta, I can't install Debian via debootsrap on a new laptop... |
| 09:37.56 | Lyberta | tpo2, is making a USB stick with live system an option? |
| 09:39.39 | tpo2 | Lyberta, yep, that's a good idea. The problem is, I would need a live system with a >=5.5 kernel that can handle my system NVMe disk. How do I get there? |
| 09:40.17 | tpo2 | I see there are 5.10 buster-backport kernels. How do I get those onto a live image? |
| 09:40.40 | Lyberta | tpo2, go with bullseye and not buster |
| 09:41.16 | tpo2 | Lyberta, bullseye doesn't have a >5.5 kernel, so that won't get me anywhere? |
| 09:46.22 | Lyberta | my bullseye devices run linux 5.10 |
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| 09:47.08 | hansol | how to enable a commands history in debian ? |
| 09:47.21 | Lyberta | tpo2, https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/linux-image-amd64 |
| 09:49.01 | tpo2 | oh wow, thanks Lyberta, I wonder how I managed to not find that :-/ |
| 09:49.45 | tpo2 | Lyberta, do you happen to know whether that's the default kernel on a live-image or a debian installer? |
| 09:49.55 | Lyberta | tpo2, actually what I have is a regular Debian Bullseye, it just happens to be on external USB SSD and I use it to install Debian on new devices and fix boot problems with "old" devices |
| 09:51.05 | Lyberta | tpo2, it will definitely be installed via debootstrap |
| 09:51.51 | Lyberta | tpo2, last time I ran Debian installer was in 2016 I think, everything after that was via debootstrap |
| 09:52.34 | hansol | how to save all inserted commands in history ? |
| 09:54.41 | tpo2 | hansol, history > /tmp/foo |
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| 10:00.40 | wMw | I try to find a tool to modify bios settings via debian cmd |
| 10:01.50 | hansol | tpo2 foo is the name of file |
| 10:01.55 | hansol | where have to be save the commands ? |
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| 10:03.10 | wMw | I have a debian server that do not start when power goes down and come back.. and I want to modify this from bios, to boot back when the power comes back |
| 10:05.36 | hansol | tpo2 its not working, afther restart the commands are not saved |
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| 10:06.38 | tpo2 | wMw, can't you change the settings manually directly at boot in the BIOS? |
| 10:08.03 | tpo2 | hansol, so you do `history > $HOME/foo` and then it will be saved? |
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| 10:10.14 | wMw | no.. I'm not at home right now :) and nobody has access to that machine |
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| 10:13.07 | wMw | I found some tools but only for HP servers |
| 10:13.52 | tpo2 | wMw, I suspect that there isn't a standartized way to change BIOS setting and so you'll be left with server specific tools. Maybe you can access BIOS settings via IPMI? |
| 10:15.20 | hansol | tpo2 its saving the root commands but for user wont |
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| 10:18.45 | wMw | I try to do this settings via ipmitool.. thanks tpo2 |
| 10:18.58 | tpo2 | hansol, you have to do the same command as every user |
| 10:19.23 | tpo2 | wMw, :-) |
| 10:19.57 | tpo2 | wMw, wish you luck impi is also a bad crutch in my experience :-( |
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| 10:22.50 | hansol | tpo2 i did |
| 10:23.39 | hansol | history > $HOME/foo |
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| 10:51.47 | Franciman | Hello debian |
| 10:52.15 | Franciman | do you have any tip about how to test a single dynamically loaded kernel module? |
| 10:52.25 | Franciman | I need an unsigned kernel I suppose |
| 10:52.42 | Arahael | "test"? |
| 10:52.43 | Franciman | but do you think it is a good idea? Or is it better to test a whole kernel? |
| 10:52.59 | Franciman | test in the sense that I want to load it and see if it works the way I want |
| 10:53.00 | Arahael | I've taken a long break from debian, just curious what you mean by 'test'. :) |
| 10:53.16 | Franciman | (i.e. not drop connection when my father is around) |
| 10:53.41 | Arahael | Well, presumeably most people would probably test this in a virtual machine. |
| 10:54.21 | Franciman | but doesn't the VM depend on the host drivers? |
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| 10:54.40 | Arahael | In a way, it depends on what the module is and why you're testing it. |
| 10:54.58 | Franciman | ath10k |
| 10:55.07 | Franciman | because unfortunately I am stuck with nasty propertary stuff |
| 10:55.16 | Arahael | I'm a software developer, so usually for me testing involves setting up a series of programmatic tests in a test suite and then running it - but I haven't done that against a kernel or kernel module. |
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| 10:56.47 | Arahael | Will be curious to learn what others here suggest. :) |
| 10:57.38 | Franciman | yes unfortunately the source of the problem is obscure |
| 10:57.48 | Franciman | because it is over wifi |
| 10:58.02 | Franciman | my father's smartphone interacts badly with my wifi card and makes it hang |
| 10:58.21 | Franciman | this seems a firmware issue, but then _why_ doesn't the card hang with an older kernel? |
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| 11:01.35 | tpo2 | Franciman, if you are able to build the module matching the kernel you are running then I think it's a good idea to test with the kernel module |
| 11:01.49 | tpo2 | this is usually done via dkms |
| 11:02.07 | Franciman | hmm I see |
| 11:02.24 | Franciman | I shall try, then, thanks! |
| 11:03.15 | tpo2 | if you are not able to build the module exactly matching your kernel (i.e. you download the module from "somewhere" and it was build for "some" kernel), then I'd rather build the module myself (again, matching your current kernel) or download whatever kernel version the module wants and compile a kernel along) |
| 11:04.03 | Franciman | how do you build the module, matching the current kernel? |
| 11:04.19 | Franciman | (btw, I am doing a git bisect over the commits, so I always buind from source) |
| 11:04.20 | tpo2 | you might get lucky insmod'ing a module that was build for a different kernel (I'm not sure whether the kernel will prevent you from doing that) or you might just instantly lock your machine and have to reboot... |
| 11:05.10 | tpo2 | Franciman, are the ath sources separate from the kernel sources? |
| 11:05.18 | tpo2 | (i.e. not in-tree?) |
| 11:05.21 | Franciman | they are in-tree |
| 11:05.29 | Franciman | net/wireless/ath/ath10k |
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| 11:05.59 | tpo2 | so just build the new kernel and install it along with its modules |
| 11:06.07 | Franciman | ok, shall do |
| 11:06.08 | Franciman | ty |
| 11:06.30 | tpo2 | you should be able to build a debian package from vanilla upstream kernels and install those packages, then you don't have to mess around with grub etc. |
| 11:06.38 | Franciman | make deb-pkg |
| 11:06.42 | tpo2 | yes |
| 11:06.43 | Franciman | makes the work easy |
| 11:08.11 | EdePopede | hansol, what shell? is $HISTFILE defined in both profiles? |
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| 11:18.29 | tpo2 | Lyberta, so I've installed from the bullseye live CD I have a prompt now after reboot. Wow! Thaaaaaank you :-)!!!! |
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| 11:24.33 | Lyberta | tpo2, nice |
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| 11:55.29 | Xalys | Is there a risk in sharing devices in /dev? What purpose does systemd's PrivateDevices serve? |
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| 12:04.07 | ratrace | Xalys: yes, there's risk. one of security principles is Least Privilege Principle, ie. giving processes the most minimum they require to operate. |
| 12:04.54 | ratrace | so with Private* you reduce the attack surface of vulnerable software and hardware |
| 12:05.35 | ratrace | as an example, a RCE in WordPress, which is not an uncommon thing, cannot try to exploit a vulnerability in nvidia gpu driver to exploit your entire machine from ring0 |
| 12:06.13 | ratrace | (if you hide the /dev'ices from WordPress, as it certainly doesn't need any) |
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| 12:08.13 | Xalys | ratrace: makes sense. Thank you. Having a bit of a hard time deciding which options are overkill and which actually contribute to security. |
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| 12:46.55 | b1ack0p | when will debian 11 be ready? |
| 12:47.11 | b1ack0p | when will it be served to my table? :p |
| 12:47.40 | ratrace | !wwbr |
| 12:47.40 | dpkg | Now Debian "Bullseye" is the current testing branch as of 2019-07-06 and it will be released "when it's ready." |
| 12:49.06 | b1ack0p | "when it is ready" pff :p |
| 12:51.45 | cws | That's how its ALWAYS been. |
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| 12:53.17 | b1ack0p | i know but it has been ages i guess |
| 12:53.25 | b1ack0p | when did deb10 released? |
| 12:55.36 | cws | Doesn't matter. Its always been "when its ready." |
| 12:56.02 | b1ack0p | okk |
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| 12:58.02 | cws | I wouldn't expect to see bullseye's stable release until somewhere around August. |
| 12:58.18 | cws | And even that is just a guess extrapolating from previous release timelines. |
| 12:59.10 | b1ack0p | this year august? |
| 12:59.14 | cws | Yes. |
| 12:59.17 | b1ack0p | hope so |
| 12:59.25 | b1ack0p | where can i read changes? |
| 12:59.28 | cws | As I said, that's a guess. The final answer will always be "when its ready." |
| 12:59.32 | b1ack0p | any radical changes expected? |
| 12:59.44 | cws | https://wiki.debian.org/DebianBullseye |
| 13:00.02 | cws | Everything you could want to know is right there. |
| 13:00.11 | b1ack0p | ok thanks |
| 13:02.35 | b1ack0p | will there be 32bit support? |
| 13:03.50 | cws | As I said, everything known right now is there. |
| 13:03.57 | cws | See "Architectures." |
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| 13:05.31 | b1ack0p | ok |
| 13:05.57 | xormor | does util-linux have good replacements for the GNU utilities that come with my Debian stable distro? I could use just the extra commands, too. I have the util-linux from kernel.org. the tools seem to work just fine. |
| 13:06.19 | cws | xormor: Is there a reason you're trying to replace them? |
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| 13:09.26 | xormor | cws: I am thinking maybe it could be nice to have non-GNU tools because I am not sure if the GNU tools are as good as they should and because there is some politics going on about GNU, FSF and Stallman and I would like to have makers, supporters and organizers of tools with good reputations. I found out that some of the GNU code is very bloated, but I think the GNU tools work well enough for my use. There |
| 13:09.32 | xormor | is a bit of politics surrounding the GNU, FSF and RMS and it all seems a bit of a drag. |
| 13:10.19 | cws | I, frankly, don't believe that politics is a good reason to muck about with the internals of a distribution. There's no need to replace the utilities that are included with Debian as is, and if it means that much to you, using Debian GNU/Linux seems an odd choice, since GNU is in the name. |
| 13:10.42 | Arahael | Perhaps FreeBSD might be a better choice in that particular case. |
| 13:10.46 | xormor | cws: yes, yes... |
| 13:10.48 | xormor | Arahael: perhaps |
| 13:11.19 | Arahael | Still, I dislike this "cancel culture" we have. Oh noes, a person is controversial, lets try to cancel *everything* that person ever did. :( |
| 13:11.32 | cws | This is veeeeery offtopic. |
| 13:11.50 | Arahael | Yeah, lets drop it, appologies. |
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| 13:22.00 | xormor | I want to mess with the internals of my home computer. I always install a new kernel from kernel.org, and yes, I do take the normal sudo apt update and sudo apt upgrade with proposed-updates and security and the usual updates. I have actually possibly damaged a hard drive last summer with the System Request key combination I will not type here, but it was a 7½ year old WDC hard drive so it may already |
| 13:22.06 | xormor | have been so old it got bad sectors because of wearing out. I got a new WDC hard drive and this is the same size but newer, still compatible technology. My computer is old. I like to try if I can run new pieces of software with it. My computer is from 2013. |
| 13:24.09 | xormor | is this offtopic? should I replace the parts that break one by one, or start doing a bigger makeover? or should I get a new computer? I think Debian stable runs on all kinds of hardware. |
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| 13:26.50 | cws | xormor: why are you doing all of this? Why are you installing a kernel that you don't need? Why are you forcing yourself to compile a kernel every time there's a security update? |
| 13:26.54 | cws | !sns |
| 13:26.54 | dpkg | Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>. |
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| 13:30.05 | jack2019 | BusyBox v1.22.1: cryptroot-unlock : cryptsetup: cryptsetup fsiled, bad password or options? any idea? |
| 13:30.33 | EdePopede | xormor: you need new kernels if you need new features, or just "a >=5.5 kernel that can handle my system NVMe disk". on the other end of the age scale my pc is from late 2007 and still runs debian. could need some more RAM, but that's it. |
| 13:30.58 | oxek | heh, I'm fully comfortable using software developed by convicted murderers |
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| 13:45.42 | cws | EdePopede: if you need a new kernel, stable-backports has that. |
| 13:46.18 | cws | So there's no reason to pull source and build. |
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| 14:23.26 | EdePopede | cws: including the support for the card that just entered the market? |
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| 15:05.05 | hansol | guys |
| 15:05.16 | hansol | what is differense between hard & symbolic links ? |
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| 15:07.18 | wintersky | hard link wont work between different filesystems |
| 15:07.22 | wintersky | symbolic will |
| 15:07.31 | wintersky | usually you want symlinks |
| 15:07.42 | wintersky | hard links are like legacy feature |
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| 15:08.02 | hansol | wintersky thanks you for answer |
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| 15:09.32 | hansol | wintersky what about the -v option verbose mode its necessary to use or just use -s option ? |
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| 15:09.50 | wintersky | verbose is optional |
| 15:11.48 | NGC3982 | it's always nice to use a verbose option |
| 15:12.18 | wintersky | not always |
| 15:13.58 | hansol | what is differense with and without it ? |
| 15:14.02 | NGC3982 | tries -vvv on anything and enjoys living with debug where no debug is needed |
| 15:14.23 | NGC3982 | hansol: verbose is simply output:in more information about the procedure you have initiated. |
| 15:14.26 | wintersky | hansol: you just get extra information about what hte program does and that's about it |
| 15:14.34 | NGC3982 | the information is always there but not always visible without a verbose option |
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| 15:15.49 | NGC3982 | some programs have level of verbosity. the program ssh can for instance use "-vvv" to increase the verbosity to show almost anything it's doing. it's very useful when having complex problems, or running complex features with the program |
| 15:16.41 | hansol | Ok i have note that |
| 15:17.05 | hansol | one more question, if i want to create a symb |
| 15:17.52 | hansol | one more question, if i want to create a symbolic link to a log file that can edit only root, but the symbolic file is user visiable, when he open the link he can see the information inside the log file, but he wont able to edit it rgiht? |
| 15:19.00 | hansol | he can open the log file with symbolic link but cant edit it? |
| 15:22.10 | hansol | if the user have permission to edit symbolic file, but not to edit log file with is connected he will able to edit the log file or not ? |
| 15:22.52 | cws | hansol: there are no permissions on symlinks whatsoever. |
| 15:22.54 | somiaj | symbolic links have the same permissions as the actual file they point at |
| 15:23.03 | cws | ^ |
| 15:23.30 | somiaj | well in essence, but when it comes to read/executing/writing to the file, it depends on the file linked to, not the link |
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| 15:25.04 | hansol | understand |
| 15:26.11 | hansol | if root made a symbolic file for a user, but user dont have permission to edit the linked file to the user will not able to edit it |
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| 15:45.26 | hansol | guys, what is Easyest command to find a files inside your linux ? |
| 15:45.38 | hansol | find, locate, which, whereis ? |
| 15:45.57 | nkuttler | depends on what you're looking for |
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| 15:46.36 | nkuttler | if you're just searching for a random file by name you know nothing else about, find |
| 15:46.58 | hansol | lets say im looking for a file witch have exact word inside |
| 15:47.08 | nkuttler | inside the file? or the filename? |
| 15:47.12 | hansol | inside the file |
| 15:47.25 | nkuttler | is it a text file? |
| 15:47.45 | hansol | not matter of file format |
| 15:48.08 | nkuttler | is this some quiz? or are you trying to solve a problem? |
| 15:48.54 | hansol | im trying to learn to solve future problems |
| 15:48.59 | EdePopede | for different parts you use different tools. |
| 15:49.12 | EdePopede | the biggest hammer doesn't always win. |
| 15:49.28 | nkuttler | well, come back when you have a real question. otherwise, read the four man pages of the tools you mentioned |
| 15:49.40 | xormor | hansol: grep -r "text_here" * or grep -R "text_here" * |
| 15:49.57 | xormor | hansol: man grep |
| 15:50.17 | EdePopede | and maybe hafe a look at the toolboxes like Gnu Coreutils or util-linux |
| 15:51.51 | xormor | hansol: try this: grep -r "inux" /* |
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| 15:52.13 | xormor | hansol: be prepared to push Ctrl+C (^C) |
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| 15:53.16 | xormor | hansol: did that help? |
| 15:53.22 | hansol | yes |
| 15:53.27 | xormor | good |
| 15:53.52 | hansol | sudo grep -r "searching text inside of file" |
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| 15:54.34 | hansol | what about file name? can i use grep for that also? |
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| 15:55.01 | xormor | hansol: grep -r "searching text inside of file" filename_here |
| 15:55.13 | Peyam | is there a AdGuard application for debian? |
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| 15:55.56 | xormor | hansol: /* means everything in root, and -r makes it recursive so it is everything in and under root too. |
| 15:55.57 | hansol | xormor what about just file name without text inside ? |
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| 15:56.39 | xormor | hansol: sudo find / -name file_name or locate file_name, before locate you want to do sudo updatedb |
| 15:57.20 | xormor | hansol: also which filename (searches for an executable) and whereis filename looks probably for all kinds of files, I have to test... |
| 15:58.37 | xormor | try: whereis ls |
| 15:59.07 | xormor | ls: /usr/bin/ls /usr/share/man/man1/ls.1.gz |
| 15:59.08 | somiaj | Peyam: clarify, are you talking about browser extensions like noscript? adblock? |
| 16:00.11 | hansol | xormor thanks you |
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| 16:03.33 | hansol | xormor whereis mean to show a application dir ? |
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| 16:04.28 | somiaj | man whereis -- but yes, it shows the actual path of the file in your |
| 16:04.30 | somiaj | $PATH |
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| 16:06.05 | hansol | thx you |
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| 16:07.43 | somiaj | note if you have a binary located in multiple locations, it shows the actual one that would be used when you run the command |
| 16:09.12 | hansol | its very interesting |
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| 16:14.23 | fakuve | Hi does anyone know how do I input the ssh username in this command? (sudo virsh migrate myvm quemu+ssh://192.168.5.160/) |
| 16:15.02 | fakuve | I dont wanna be connected as root |
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| 16:15.45 | sney | user@host |
| 16:19.51 | fakuve | sney: but how is the syntax in this case? |
| 16:20.14 | fakuve | sudo virsh migrate myvm fakuve@quemu+ssh://192.168.5.160/ |
| 16:20.27 | fakuve | sudo virsh migrate myvm quemu+ssh://fakuve@192.168.5.160/ |
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| 16:21.01 | sney | the second one is user@host |
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| 16:22.18 | fakuve | sney: sudo virsh migrate debian-blank quemu+ssh://user@host/ ? |
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| 16:22.57 | sney | fakuve is your user, 192.168.5.160 is your host, fakuve@192.168.5.160 |
| 16:23.29 | xormor | hansol: whereis does show others than executables, too, and also with different file name extensions like .gz |
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| 16:23.54 | xormor | hansol: a gz is a gzip, a compressed file |
| 16:24.16 | fakuve | sney: sudo virsh migrate debian-blank quemu+ssh:fakuve@192.168.5.160 ? |
| 16:24.27 | fakuve | not working |
| 16:24.46 | tomreyn | why did you drop the slashes? |
| 16:24.50 | sney | oh my god |
| 16:24.51 | xormor | hansol: no. I was wrong. |
| 16:25.30 | fakuve | Can anyone write it for me please? |
| 16:25.37 | xormor | hansol: just the executables in the path for whereis and an associated man page .gz file for it if available. |
| 16:25.41 | fakuve | I don't understand the syntax |
| 16:25.48 | sney | fakuve: you had it already. [10:20:27] <fakuve> sudo virsh migrate myvm quemu+ssh://fakuve@192.168.5.160/ |
| 16:26.05 | sney | fakuve: it helps to try your ideas, rather than wait for someone on irc to give you permission |
| 16:26.17 | fakuve | sney: oh thanks |
| 16:26.27 | fakuve | sney: It did't work when I tried it |
| 16:26.33 | fakuve | I tried it |
| 16:26.38 | fakuve | but maybe wrote something wrong |
| 16:26.40 | sney | what happens when you try |
| 16:26.41 | fakuve | sorry |
| 16:27.00 | fakuve | sney: error: no connection driver available for quemu:/// |
| 16:27.03 | fakuve | :D |
| 16:27.08 | fakuve | It will be fine I will troubleshoot that |
| 16:27.15 | fakuve | Thanks!! |
| 16:27.24 | tomreyn | qemu, not quemu |
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| 16:27.28 | sney | np |
| 16:27.31 | fakuve | xDD |
| 16:27.45 | tomreyn | https://www.libvirt.org/uri.html#URI_remote |
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| 16:29.06 | fakuve | tomreyn: Thank you |
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| 16:38.21 | hansol | xormor ok |
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| 16:55.16 | hansol | guys, how many groups i can add to user ? |
| 16:55.22 | hansol | more than 1 ? |
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| 16:56.04 | oxek[m] | you add users to groups |
| 16:56.08 | oxek[m] | not groups to users |
| 16:56.34 | hansol | ok, groups to users can i add more than 1 group ? |
| 16:56.40 | oxek[m] | yes |
| 16:56.59 | hansol | and also i can add more than 1 group for files ? |
| 16:57.18 | EdePopede | files belong to 1 user and 1 group |
| 16:58.00 | EdePopede | the users only are part of a main group (in Debian it's their own), and also of additional ones (your name should be a few times in /etc/group already) |
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| 16:59.07 | hansol | thanks for answer |
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| 16:59.41 | EdePopede | np |
| 17:00.35 | EdePopede | -- For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened |
| 17:00.36 | EdePopede | or so ;) |
| 17:02.17 | hansol | if you set the file group that user is not in that group but the user own the file? user is enabled to edit the file or? |
| 17:04.45 | EdePopede | the user needs to have w (write) access to the file somehow. either as user (owns the file) or per group (own group, which is default for files created by that user, or by one of the other groups the user is in) |
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| 17:06.13 | Langomorphis | anyone here experienced in sane/all-in-one scanner setups? im having some unique challenges I'd like some help with if anyone has time... plz see - https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxquestions/comments/mnv5yv/xsane_scanning_after_setup_with_new_ip_address_is/ |
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| 17:08.27 | hansol | EdePopede understand. |
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| 17:10.21 | sney | Langomorphis: does your mfp have a scan to network function from its control panel? that's what I have to use with mine, it scans to a dedicated samba share under ~/Documents. sane is just janky and unreliable it seems |
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| 17:11.04 | Langomorphis | @sney let me check... you mean from physical device LCD screen options? |
| 17:11.21 | sney | Langomorphis: yes |
| 17:14.39 | Langomorphis | @sney it has a button for "scan" (physical) not on LCD, nothing about network share or SMB config via LCD menu's and I looked through the cups server setup of the printer web panel and there are no settings to configure direct (scan to share) type function there. |
| 17:15.13 | sney | ah, that's unfortunate. hope you figure out the sane issue then. |
| 17:15.17 | sney | also, |
| 17:15.19 | sney | !mentions |
| 17:15.19 | dpkg | '@name' style mentions, common on social media and newer chat platforms, are not part of IRC. Most IRC clients ignore this kind of highlight. If you want to get someone's attention on IRC, don't @ them, simply type their nick at the beginning of the line. And while we have your attention, make sure that you read the <channel topic>. |
| 17:18.22 | Langomorphis | sney: okay thx, i did press the physical 'scan' button to see what it would do, and it just shows on LCD screen "connection error" so probably something similar to what i experience when initialize from PC as well |
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| 17:22.30 | Langomorphis | sney: LOLLLLLL I just fixed it! i went to the device and from LCD menu just did --- 'network reset' - then reviewed it again, appeared it did not change ip config from what I required and now i tried it again in SANE and its working, Hurray! |
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| 17:33.47 | lpancescu | hello, is it possible to "convert" a debian xfce installation to a debian gnome installation, as if debian gnome would have been installed from the beginning, with no trace of xfce? how? |
| 17:34.25 | lpancescu | i think apt purge should be able to do it, just not sure what packages i need to specify |
| 17:34.30 | sney | to install gnome the way the debian installer would, 'apt install task-gnome-desktop' |
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| 17:35.05 | sney | removing xfce may be tricky, since some packages have conditional dependency relationships with other stuff you may have installed later |
| 17:35.17 | lpancescu | i know, but how do i remove xfce and lightdm? it would be easy to install new and restore my files from backups |
| 17:35.30 | sney | but something like 'aptitude remove ~ixfce' would get a lot of it |
| 17:35.44 | lpancescu | oh. then a new install is the better choice |
| 17:35.56 | lpancescu | thanks |
| 17:36.19 | oxek[m] | why not just keep both installed? |
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| 17:45.15 | lpancescu | it clutters the menus :) i like xfce, but i can't fix the image tearing, and firefox requires wayland to use va-api for hardware video acceleration - available from bullseye |
| 17:45.39 | lpancescu | i still have to try compton, though, and see if it helps |
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| 17:47.07 | Langomorphis | you have image tearing? |
| 17:47.21 | Langomorphis | try this.... 1 sec |
| 17:48.44 | Langomorphis | lpancescu, https://www.maketecheasier.com/get-rid-screen-tearing-linux/ -- It worked for me to install compton and configure xfce option as described here |
| 17:49.23 | lpancescu | yes, especially when watching fullscreen video, but also moving windows. i created a xorg.conf.d, adding options GLXVBlank True, AccelMethod exa, ShadowFB, PageFlip - nothing helped (I had already enabled vlank sync in xfwm4's compositor) |
| 17:49.51 | lpancescu | Langomorphis: thanks, will try it out |
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| 17:52.26 | Langomorphis | lpancescu, I found to watch this video before/after doing the fix described you can definately see a difference in screen tearing not happening b/c the bug in beginning of the music video its eyes jitter alot so its a good test -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_TUP2vuaDs its a music video so may want to mute your speakers to just observe visually. |
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| 18:07.42 | Casper26 | Anyone know how to fix when invoking xflock4 screen goes immediately black? |
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| 18:14.33 | maxrazer | I have xclock, but not xclock4. |
| 18:15.16 | sney | that's xflock4, the xfce screensaver thing |
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| 18:18.24 | oxek | the screen lockers are still easy to bypass, right? Maybe except physlock executed on a tty |
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| 18:22.29 | sney | some will disappear if you switch to a different tty and then back, but plasma/sddm's builtin doesn't, probably depends on how it's running |
| 18:23.22 | sney | but if your threat model involves protecting against attackers with more than a few minutes' physical access to the machine, you'll need a lot more than a screen locker anyway |
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| 18:30.29 | lpancescu | Casper26: you can use xscreensaver to lock the screen, then it won't go immediately black (instead of xflock4) |
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| 18:33.42 | lpancescu | screen lockers usually do their job if you didn't start X11 with startx from a text console. if the only login was via gdm or lightdm, the screen locker won't let itself get killed. not sure what happens if the attacker attahes another monitor, i hope the locker will expend its widow to cover both |
| 18:33.59 | lpancescu | expand ^ |
| 18:34.59 | lpancescu | there was some CVE related to gnome-screensaver related to something like that. afaik, xscreensaver was always safe |
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| 18:39.53 | gzp | Hello, on debian10 how to disable switching the console to framebuffer? (grub is ok now) |
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| 18:48.57 | snowflake | Hi there! Is there a way to shape traffic for golang apps in a similar way it is done by trickle? trickle doesn't support golang apps. |
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| 18:50.46 | kish` | it's not clear from the website how one should verify the checksum of iso files |
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| 18:52.16 | HannaM | kish: it's not clear at all, what you want (to know from us) .. |
| 18:53.08 | HannaM | are you talknig about "Verifying authenticity of Debian CDs" !? |
| 18:53.49 | otisolsen70 | I am running a machine with mdadm raid1. One of the disks is failing and is about to be replaced. The machine is remote but someone where the machine is located will replace the disks. What am I supposed to do BEFORE the disk replacement? Should I knock the drive out of the mdadm array? Or something else? Or is it enough I shut down the server and then just boot it up with the new disk? |
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| 18:55.44 | kish` | just trying to verify the iso, somehow, HannaM |
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| 18:57.39 | HannaM | if you are following this page https://www.debian.org/CD/verify .. it says you can use GnuPG for it (by importing the Debian GP keyring) |
| 18:57.59 | sney | agreed it's not clear on the website, but if you combine https://www.debian.org/CD/verify and https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/10.9.0/amd64/iso-cd/ you should have enough information to figure it out |
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| 18:58.29 | HannaM | and not to forget, the sah256sum program |
| 18:58.32 | HannaM | sha256sum |
| 18:59.19 | kish` | HannaM, ah thanks |
| 19:00.12 | HannaM | .. this program should be available on your system, if it's not too old.. otherwise you could also use openssl dgst -sha256 PATH-TO-FILE |
| 19:00.24 | HannaM | assuming openssl is installed |
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| 19:02.11 | kish` | Yeah it will work. Thank you. |
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| 20:36.50 | Peyam | How do I know if a package is installed without sudo permission? |
| 20:37.24 | sney | apt list --installed packagename, or apt policy packagename |
| 20:37.29 | sney | search operations do not need root |
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| 20:39.38 | ||JD|| | yo guys, is there any Debian systems administration certification that worth to obtain? |
| 20:40.25 | wintersky | did anyone experienced gnome 3.38.4 turning on play in multimedia applications by itself for no reason? |
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| 20:43.00 | cws | ||JD||: No, because any employer looking for Linux administration skills doesn't want that person to be tied to a specific distro. Check out the Linux Foundation series. |
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| 20:45.45 | ||JD|| | cws: Red Hat one not only exist, but they are also the most demanded cerfications |
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| 20:48.06 | ratrace | yea, RHEL certs are highly sought after. my last three workplaces hired me for my RCSA |
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| 20:48.32 | e | and yet incredibly easy to get |
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| 20:49.23 | ratrace | a friend of mine works for a place that recently started looking for Ubuntu Certified Professionals |
| 20:49.35 | ratrace | so taht's one to keep in mind too |
| 20:49.39 | cws | Probably after the CentOS fiasco. |
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| 20:50.58 | ratrace | they were always ubuntu shop |
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| 22:23.38 | luna | i wanna die |
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| 22:23.52 | b1anc | no |
| 22:23.59 | luna | well i do |
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| 23:10.43 | luizfrds | hi folks! new here! |
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| 23:12.30 | luizfrds | i'm using diet-pi which is debian based, |
| 23:14.59 | luizfrds | if it is connect to the lan, during the boot process it will have the eth-0 up and everything is nice |
| 23:15.36 | luizfrds | but if i connect the cable AFTER booting process i would need to manually start the ethernet |
| 23:18.16 | luizfrds | there is a way to automatize this process? |
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| 23:22.18 | HannaM | maybe changed ethernet names on each boot? this might help in that case: http://linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/stable/chapter09/network.html |
| 23:22.39 | HannaM | ethernet interface names |
| 23:23.15 | luizfrds | HannaM, but the main issue i'm having is getting my ip AFTER the os has booted up |
| 23:23.53 | luizfrds | because the cable was physically disconnected during the boot process |
| 23:24.44 | luizfrds | so, i was wondering some daemon that keeps "an eye" on my eth0 and try to update it automatically |
| 23:25.25 | HannaM | .. did you check the page I linked to ? |
| 23:25.42 | luizfrds | * reading right now |
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| 23:29.30 | cws | luizfrds: So you're aware, distros based on Debian aren't necessarily supported here. |
| 23:32.40 | luizfrds | cws, yeah i had this impression. but can't think at a best place to start looking for info |
| 23:35.26 | cws | luizfrds: https://dietpi.com/phpbb/ |
| 23:35.50 | luizfrds | cws, thanks |
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| 23:46.42 | b1ack0p | hi. |
| 23:46.58 | b1ack0p | does somebody having disconnection issue recently? |
| 23:47.06 | b1ack0p | s/does/is |
| 23:47.16 | oxek | b1ack0p: no |
| 23:47.40 | HannaM | nope |
| 23:47.45 | b1ack0p | but i do |
| 23:48.13 | b1ack0p | i connected with 2 different machines with different wifi card |
| 23:48.23 | b1ack0p | both have debian 10 |
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| 23:50.33 | b1ack0p | i dont know why after 1 hr i am having disconnection issue |
| 23:51.03 | b1ack0p | something changed with recent updates not sure |
| 23:52.22 | HannaM | or some standby stuff !? |
| 23:53.48 | b1ack0p | like what? |
| 23:53.53 | b1ack0p | it doesnt go sleep mode |
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| 23:54.23 | b1ack0p | irssi is open but when i try to type something i realise i am disconnected |
| 23:54.28 | HannaM | no, I was thinking about standby / energy saving mode of the wifi hardware .. |
| 23:54.57 | b1ack0p | it was fine some updates ago |
| 23:55.05 | HannaM | but that was only a guess |
| 23:55.20 | b1ack0p | i suspect some settings might change |
| 23:55.22 | HannaM | therefore, you might want to check some hardware event logs |
| 23:55.26 | b1ack0p | with updates |
| 23:59.50 | oxek | !dietpi |
| 23:59.50 | dpkg | dietpi is probably a distribution <based on Debian> primarily developed for single board computers such as the <Raspberry Pi>. DietPi is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. https://dietpi.com/ |