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| 00:09.43 | ASDX | do most people still use preseed for debian 10 automated builds? |
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| 00:18.13 | oxek | ASDX: can't speak for most people, but containers and VMs have pretty much obsoleted actually installing stuff |
| 00:18.42 | oxek | or just scripting it with debootstrap |
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| 00:37.00 | holycow | oxek: what do you mean vm and containers are obsoleted? |
| 00:37.10 | holycow | what is replacing them? |
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| 00:39.02 | oxek | holycow: read what I wrote again |
| 00:39.28 | holycow | oh, heh |
| 00:39.39 | holycow | well not really |
| 00:40.20 | oxek | I mean, I wouldn't want to actually install debian 1000 times, even if I had the perfect preseeds |
| 00:41.02 | oxek | and if I were to build a VM or container, I still wouldn't go through the installation |
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| 00:43.29 | kish` | is using the security updates service recommended? |
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| 00:45.24 | oxek | kish`: what's that? |
| 00:45.42 | kish` | oxek, it was a question asked during expert graphical install of debian |
| 00:46.19 | oxek | I don't remember the graphical install, but if it was asking something like enabling security repository, then yes you should have that enabled |
| 00:46.44 | oxek | if it was something about unattended-upgrades, then that depends on you |
| 00:47.02 | oxek | the install guide probably covers this |
| 00:47.04 | oxek | !install guide |
| 00:47.04 | dpkg | The Installation Guide for Debian 10 "Buster" can be found at https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/installmanual . See also <errata> and <buster release notes>. |
| 00:48.22 | kish` | thanks. |
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| 00:49.01 | kish` | I've been running into failures when trying to choose the desktop environments. Without the DE the install finishes but it gets a failure if I try to install something |
| 00:49.21 | kish` | so I am trying to see how it will be installing the DE post basic install |
| 00:49.26 | oxek | do you have internet available during installation? |
| 00:51.15 | kish` | Yes. it downloads fine. |
| 00:51.39 | kish` | Is there a way to know what the error is in more detail than what the gui installer gives me? |
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| 00:52.37 | oxek | I don't know much about the gui installer. Maybe you can press Alt-4 to switch to a screen that shows errors? |
| 00:52.58 | oxek | (You get back by pressing Alt-1) |
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| 00:53.21 | sney | ctrl-alt-f4 in the gui installer |
| 00:53.24 | kish` | I get nothing when I press alt-4 but that may have to do with this being through virtual box |
| 00:53.42 | sney | in vbox you will need to use whatever special keys function it has |
| 00:55.27 | oxek | oh and I see the graphical installer is on Ctrl-Alt-F5 and not Ctrl-Alt-F1 |
| 01:02.56 | kish` | Processing was halted because there were too many errors; main-menu: dpkg-divert: warning: diverting file '/sbin/start-stop-daemon' from an Essential package with rename is dangerous, use --no-rename |
| 01:03.19 | kish` | and pkgsel stops after that |
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| 01:19.28 | haijuno | Any place I see some screenshots of debian? Thinking about installing it |
| 01:21.06 | oxek | haijuno: debian can look the same as any other distro |
| 01:21.28 | oxek | screenshots of it therefore don't make much sense |
| 01:21.38 | haijuno | That's true. But there should be some default look it comes with no? |
| 01:22.03 | dvs | gnome |
| 01:22.14 | dvs | 3 |
| 01:22.43 | haijuno | Oh ok. So looks just like default ubuntu? |
| 01:22.57 | oxek | very similar |
| 01:23.17 | haijuno | What would be some reasons someone chose Debian over ubuntu? |
| 01:24.14 | oxek | a good reason would be that ubuntu keeps on making really weird decisions that are not in the best interests of users |
| 01:24.52 | haijuno | Regarding? Freedom? |
| 01:27.03 | dvs | Stability for starters. |
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| 01:27.36 | oxek | everything really. Ubuntu gained a lot of good will 13 years ago, when it behaved like windows and thus because the default distro for people who knew only windows. |
| 01:27.41 | oxek | and it has been riding that wave ever since |
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| 01:29.01 | haijuno | I think a concern I have switching from ubuntu to debian is will my current drivers work on debian. The install on ubuntu was seamless. Everything worked flawlessly from the beginning. No need to tinker or install anything. Would that be same on debian? |
| 01:29.43 | dvs | probably not |
| 01:29.53 | oxek | haijuno: might need to use the installation .iso that contains non-free firmware |
| 01:30.05 | haijuno | Debian doesn't install proprietary drivers by default? |
| 01:30.06 | oxek | and also use the backports kernel if you have new hardware |
| 01:30.18 | oxek | so I guess the answer to your question is 'possibly not' |
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| 01:30.23 | haijuno | Ok |
| 01:30.39 | haijuno | I can try to install it on an older laptop and see how it goes |
| 01:30.51 | oxek | I mean, you will get it to work, you'll just have to enter 1 or 2 more commands compared to ubuntu installation |
| 01:31.07 | haijuno | 1 or 2 commands doesn't sound that bad |
| 01:31.21 | haijuno | But how do I find out what those commands are? That's the tricky part |
| 01:31.38 | oxek | it really isn't that bad, but can be a roadblock to people who are completely new to everything |
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| 01:32.08 | haijuno | I'm pretty well versed on the command line. Most of work is done from there for the last 5 years or so |
| 01:32.23 | oxek | then you'll be fine |
| 01:32.48 | haijuno | I'll give it a shot. I'll let you folks know how it goes. |
| 01:32.51 | haijuno | Thank you for the info |
| 01:33.01 | oxek | sure, this channel is pretty friendly and helpful |
| 01:33.19 | dvs | grrrrr |
| 01:36.56 | alex11 | ubuntu is an african word meaning 'can't configure debian' |
| 01:37.20 | cws | alex11: take it to offtopic or be quiet |
| 01:38.10 | alex11 | ok killjoy |
| 01:38.34 | cws | to be a killjoy requires that you're inspiring some kind of enjoyment to begin with. |
| 01:38.45 | alex11 | how about you shut the fuck up? |
| 01:38.48 | alex11 | thanks |
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| 02:08.48 | Mr_Queue | lol.. I love it. |
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| 02:10.15 | Mr_Queue | Back to the good ol days. I really do love it. |
| 02:10.34 | somiaj | Mr_Queue: no need to add to the noise |
| 02:11.04 | Mr_Queue | It isn't really noise.... I was at a coffee shop one time... |
| 02:11.06 | dannylee | i really lov emacs...but vim is just so easy to compile an rum your favorite worm or virus... just open your program in vim :! or :make this will work on every thing...emacs is a bit harder...but i still use emacs for most edit jobs... |
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| 02:12.14 | Mr_Queue | This kid walked up to me and noticed my Debian and Linux stickers on my rig..... Kid asked me.... "What OS are you running?" Me: Debian |
| 02:12.34 | Mr_Queue | Kid: Yeah, but based on what? |
| 02:12.37 | somiaj | Mr_Queue: This would be better in a social or off-topic channel. |
| 02:12.42 | Mr_Queue | Me: Debian. |
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| 02:13.25 | Mr_Queue | somiaj: As would your contribution. Thanks. |
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| 02:22.00 | kish` | have successfully installed debian 10.9 in vbox! |
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| 02:22.24 | oxek | well done |
| 02:22.43 | Mr_Queue | What was the hang up, that seems like a task for mother in law. |
| 02:27.05 | kish` | I don't know what went differently this time. |
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| 02:27.39 | Mr_Queue | What was the hang up? |
| 02:27.51 | Mr_Queue | It' like a 5 minute gig. |
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| 02:28.34 | dvs | I assume it's the vbox part that's trouble |
| 02:28.45 | Mr_Queue | Doubt that. |
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| 02:37.49 | cws | vbox is nearly always trouble. |
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| 02:55.06 | budlight | hi |
| 02:55.15 | dvs | yo |
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| 03:17.08 | alexrelis[m] | Is there a reason why Duplicati isn't in Debian's repos? |
| 03:21.44 | sussudio | probably a license thing or something. getting it installed is literally a google search away, though. |
| 03:21.58 | somiaj | could be just that no one has voluntineered to matain and package it for debian, it appears the Duplicati's matainers don't have the time to try to do it, https://github.com/duplicati/duplicati/issues/4305, and no one in debian has choosen to taken on the work either, https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=969188 |
| 03:21.59 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/969188 in wnpp (open): «RFP: duplicati -- user-friendly remote, encrypted, incremental backups; capable GUI via built-in local server»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2020-08-28; last modified: 2020-09-02. |
| 03:22.44 | somiaj | sussudio: it is LGPL so unless there is something hiding it should meet the DSFG, here I think it is just no one has chosen to put in the work. |
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| 03:28.49 | somiaj | arg, DFSG, always swap letters in that |
| 03:30.27 | alexrelis[m] | I'm still trying to find a backup solution that supports incremental backups, single file restores, the ability to view the backup directory without having to restore, encryption, and transferring the backup over SFTP. Duplicity/Deja-Dup come close but I can't choose where I want to restore the file too and I can't view the contents of the backup. |
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| 03:45.38 | somiaj | and you want something higher level than just use rsync? |
| 03:46.18 | somiaj | though rsync's incerminetal backups might not be the easiest to recover |
| 03:46.34 | somiaj | (at least the way I use them, maybe I'm missing some knowledge) |
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| 03:51.46 | alexrelis[m] | somiaj: I want to be able to recover files from a certain date like say I backed up a file on the 11th and deleted it on the 14th, I want to be able to restore the file from the backup I made on the 11th. And I'd prefer the backups to be encrypted. Deja-Dup is almost what I want, but it doesn't let me view the backed up directories without having to restore. Sometimes I just want to test a backup by opening a file from |
| 03:51.47 | alexrelis[m] | the backup and seeing if it's in-tact. |
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| 03:54.38 | somiaj | I don't know enough about various backup solutions to give options that meet your needs |
| 03:54.52 | alexrelis[m] | It's fine, thanks for helping. |
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| 06:48.06 | jelly | rsync wrappers are in general not encrypted |
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| 07:28.57 | janolap1 | Hi, I'm using ZorinOS, a Debian distro. When I clic on my second hdd (ntfs partition), it mounts in read-only mode. I think I should go in /etc/fstab, but i'm not sure about what to do. The fstab line is : "/dev/disk/by-uuid/E28820A588207A60 /mnt/E28820A588207A60 auto nosuid, nodev,nofail, x-gvfs-show 0 0" . Can you help me to make it writable ? |
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| 07:36.18 | EdePopede | !debian based |
| 07:36.18 | dpkg | Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare http://futurist.se/gldt/). #debian only supports Debian and pure <blend>s; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support for other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent. |
| 07:37.01 | EdePopede | debian is a distro on its own, one on which a lot of other distros are based, there's no "debian distros". just debian flavours, which is a different thing. |
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| 07:37.42 | EdePopede | but the spaces confuse me Oo |
| 07:38.01 | janolap1 | EdePopede and dpkg : Thank you, I'll find another chan to help me. Have a good day ! :-) |
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| 07:39.51 | EdePopede | ah, auto includes rw |
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| 09:26.54 | coc0nut | You are missing the following 32-bit libraries, and Steam may not run: libGL.so.1 |
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| 09:28.30 | jelly | I am certainly not! |
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| 09:30.14 | GNU\colossus | hehe |
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| 09:33.14 | velix | Is Stretch out of LTS now? |
| 09:33.28 | velix | My OpenSSL is vom 2019... |
| 09:33.33 | somiaj | !stretch lts |
| 09:33.52 | velix | hm? |
| 09:34.17 | somiaj | https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/ -- seems until june 30, 2022 |
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| 09:43.24 | velix | Ah okay. Seems like my OpenSSL 1.1.1 got kicked down to OpenSSL 1.1.0 |
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| 09:43.28 | velix | So I lost TLS 1.3 |
| 09:43.31 | velix | That explains a lot. |
| 09:43.48 | coc0nut | been trying 3-4 ways of installing libGL.so.1, noone works |
| 09:44.01 | nkuttler | coc0nut: pastebin commands + errors |
| 09:44.11 | coc0nut | no errors |
| 09:44.17 | coc0nut | just when i try to open steam |
| 09:44.37 | nkuttler | then paste the commands without errors |
| 09:44.59 | somiaj | coc0nut: use multiarch and insatll the i386 package, you shouldn't have to compile it for steam |
| 09:45.12 | jelly | coc0nut, first, make sure multiarch i386 arch is enabled |
| 09:45.51 | jelly | coc0nut, second, if you use a closed source opengl driver (nvidia), the 32bit library needs to match |
| 09:46.08 | jelly | !multiarch |
| 09:46.08 | dpkg | Multiarch allows you to install foreign architecture packages. For example, to allow i386 packages to be installed on an amd64 system: «dpkg --add-architecture i386 && apt-get update». See http://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch and <multiarch howto>, <multiarch failures>. For the unrelated installer that can install i386 or amd64, see <multi-arch installer>. |
| 09:46.24 | jelly | coc0nut, then just install libgl1-mesa-dri:i386 |
| 09:46.35 | somiaj | velix: It doesn't appear that 1.1.1 was part of streatch, where did you get the newer version from? |
| 09:46.53 | jelly | (that's the right one if you're using normal, open source, Mesa-based OpenGL |
| 09:47.24 | somiaj | velix: arg, *wasn't a part of stretch |
| 09:47.28 | jelly | somiaj, deb.sury.org had newer libssl* for a bit |
| 09:47.29 | velix | somiaj: I think it case from sury's PHP repository. |
| 09:47.30 | coc0nut | jelly ; libgl1-mesa-dri:i386 is already the newest version (18.3.6-2+deb10u1) |
| 09:47.31 | velix | yeah |
| 09:47.35 | velix | jelly: yeah |
| 09:47.40 | jelly | coc0nut, that means it's installed. |
| 09:47.53 | coc0nut | and still i get the error when opening steam |
| 09:47.56 | velix | somiaj: But after the bugfix, Debian Stretch was more up to date :D |
| 09:48.23 | coc0nut | tho, im using nvidia driver for nvidia gpu |
| 09:48.33 | coc0nut | reinstall the nvidia driver? |
| 09:48.51 | jelly | coc0nut, no, just install its 32bit bits |
| 09:49.06 | jelly | judd, file libGL.so.1 |
| 09:49.12 | judd | Search for libGL.so.1 in buster/amd64: libgl1: usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libGL.so.1; primus-libs: usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/primus/libGL.so.1; libgl1-nvidia-legacy-340xx-glx: usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/nvidia/legacy-340xx/libGL.so.1; libgl1-nvidia-legacy-390xx-glx: usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/nvidia/legacy-390xx/libGL.so.1; libgl1-nvidia-glx: usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/nvidia/current/libGL.so.1 |
| 09:49.52 | jelly | coc0nut, install libgl1-nvidia-glx:i386 then |
| 09:50.05 | somiaj | velix: well sounds like you have tracked down the issue. |
| 09:50.32 | jelly | coc0nut, or the appropriate legacy build and version, just needs to match the 64bit one |
| 09:50.41 | velix | somiaj: Yeah. Seems liek I need to upgrade to Buster now ;) |
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| 09:51.25 | coc0nut | yes! installed nvidia-driver-libs-i386 and it seems to work now |
| 09:51.30 | somiaj | velix: you could just backport openssl if that is all you needed |
| 09:51.31 | coc0nut | thx jelly! :) |
| 09:51.41 | jelly | ,v nvidia-driver-libs-i386 |
| 09:51.42 | judd | No package named 'nvidia-driver-libs-i386' was found in amd64. |
| 09:51.59 | coc0nut | added the i386 architecture |
| 09:52.13 | jelly | ,v nvidia-driver-libs --arch i386 |
| 09:52.14 | judd | Package: nvidia-driver-libs on i386 -- stretch-proposed-updates/non-free: 390.132-1; stretch/non-free: 390.138-1; stretch-backports/non-free: 418.74-1~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 418.181.07-1; buster-backports/non-free: 460.39-1~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 460.67-1; sid/non-free: 460.67-1 |
| 09:52.23 | jelly | !win coc0nut |
| 09:52.23 | dpkg | Congratulations, coc0nut! You have won a lifetime supply of spam! |
| 09:53.54 | velix | somiaj: On Debian, about any package depends on OpenSSL and needs to be compiled against LibSSL. |
| 09:54.05 | velix | somiaj: This would start a backport chain desaster. |
| 09:54.23 | velix | somiaj: I think it's easier to setup an apache container. |
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| 09:56.31 | jelly | or a nginx container! |
| 09:56.43 | jelly | an* |
| 09:57.38 | jelly | nothing stops you from doing SSL termination on apache and then passing php fpm socket to the existing stretch setup, if you really can't upgrade the app |
| 10:00.18 | GNU\colossus | at $prevjob, we rolled the TLS/HTTPS frontend on our own, with openssl statically linked into nginx, both built from source. if anyone cares, I can dig up a buildscript that makes this convenient on Debian. |
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| 10:05.27 | jelly | thanks no thanks? :-) |
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| 10:11.02 | ratrace | why would you do that anyway |
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| 10:16.00 | jelly | I'm sure they had good reasons |
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| 10:20.05 | echoSMILE | To run hyper-v VM's whis solution ia recommend: KVM or Virtualbox ? |
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| 10:30.35 | machine_1490 | Hello. I was here a few days ago with some mce errors at boot. Other than seeing the errors the only real issue seemed to be much longer boot times +40seconds delay before reaching the grub menu. It was suggested that I test different kernels. This didn't help. I also opened the machine up but didn't find any issues. Now however, I am testing a |
| 10:30.35 | machine_1490 | Debian Live flash drive (10.9 XFCE non-free) and there is no delay before reaching the grub menu. This is perplexing, but perhaps the start of solution. Any thoughts here? |
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| 10:34.36 | ratrace | echoSMILE: hyper-v is the only solution to run hyper-v VMs |
| 10:35.36 | GNU\colossus | machine_1490, what kind of device is your "normal" Debian setup installed on? |
| 10:35.51 | ratrace | echoSMILE: KVM is linux native hypervisor with paravirt capabilities (virtio), and virtualbox is a cross platform hypervisor that works on windows and linux, and is no longer supported on Debian |
| 10:35.53 | machine_1490 | GNU\colossus A laptop. |
| 10:36.15 | GNU\colossus | I meant like an SSD or HDD :) |
| 10:36.50 | machine_1490 | GNU\colossus Ah, sorry. SSD. |
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| 10:37.08 | echoSMILE | ratrace: but I can run hyper-v under linux to run hyper-v VMs right? |
| 10:38.08 | GNU\colossus | machine_1490, a suggestion that's kinda "out there", i think, but here goes: can you transfer that SSD into an external enclosure with USB connectivity, and try to boot the installation that way? |
| 10:38.18 | ratrace | echoSMILE: no, hyper-v is windows kernel's hypervisor |
| 10:39.03 | machine_1490 | GNU\colossus I like the idea: this would be to see if there is a physical connection issue with the interal SSD? |
| 10:39.05 | ratrace | echoSMILE: maybe you're confusing something here.... you CAN run Linux _GUEST_ VMs on hyper-v, yes |
| 10:39.34 | machine_1490 | Unfortunately, I don't have the equipment to do so... |
| 10:39.56 | GNU\colossus | machine_1490, not necessarily physical, but yeah, that is the idea |
| 10:40.12 | echoSMILE | ratrace: is the inverse. Linux as L0, Hyperv as L1, Win server as L2 |
| 10:40.23 | echoSMILE | this is not possible then? |
| 10:41.08 | GNU\colossus | "Hyper-V" is a Windows-specific hypervisor product by MSFT |
| 10:41.17 | machine_1490 | GNU\colossus This would require a special device, right ? Also, when I opened up the laptop, I couldn't even find the SSD. |
| 10:41.19 | GNU\colossus | you cannot run it on a Linux kernel |
| 10:41.50 | GNU\colossus | machine_1490, yeah, special hardware would be required. what laptop do you have? |
| 10:42.05 | machine_1490 | Is there any way to probe issue there? I thought of doing a SMART disk test from the live usb. |
| 10:42.16 | machine_1490 | Asus vivobook E12 |
| 10:42.51 | echoSMILE | So, I just need to run directly windows as guest under KVM ? |
| 10:42.58 | GNU\colossus | machine_1490, that probably has eMMC on board, so there's no way you can get that storage out of the device |
| 10:43.18 | GNU\colossus | echoSMILE, that is an option with a Linux kernel on the host hardware, yes |
| 10:43.28 | GNU\colossus | (or even with Linux in a VM, with nested virtualization) |
| 10:43.44 | jelly | GNU\colossus, hyper-v is not going to be windows-specific for long, MS is adding support for running it on linux kernel |
| 10:44.02 | jelly | like kvm |
| 10:44.17 | GNU\colossus | jelly, interesting, I wasn't aware. will they pull an SQL Server with it? :) |
| 10:44.35 | machine_1490 | GNU\colossus Okay, good to know! Thanks. Any other options? |
| 10:44.36 | jelly | it was news a couple months back |
| 10:45.16 | jelly | GNU\colossus, at some point expect all windowses to be VM on a linux-based hypervisor |
| 10:45.34 | GNU\colossus | machine_1490, I don't have any more ideas on how to debug what's causing the dealy at the moment, sorry |
| 10:45.50 | machine_1490 | Okay, thanks :) |
| 10:45.51 | GNU\colossus | jelly, it'll be a cold day in hell ;) |
| 10:46.05 | jelly | that's what climate change is REALLY about |
| 10:47.28 | GNU\colossus | does that explain why Bill Gates is so invested in stopping it? ;) |
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| 10:52.15 | machine_1490 | Is there any way to test the internal SSD via the live USB? It seems to be that the only possible issue would be with the internal SSD, at least for the boot delay. The SMART test option is grayed out in the gnome-disks tool... |
| 10:53.26 | GNU\colossus | SMART is probably not supported by your eMMC device. is your installation/data important, or is it OK for you to destroy it? |
| 10:53.46 | machine_1490 | The data is important! |
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| 10:55.17 | machine_1490 | It is just so odd: why would Debian live not hang at boot while the Debian install does? And why do both display mce ? |
| 10:56.18 | GNU\colossus | might be two unrelated problems (the MCE and the boot delay from eMMC) |
| 10:57.01 | machine_1490 | That's true. |
| 10:58.42 | machine_1490 | I'm looking at this too https://forum.khadas.com/t/linux-kernel-4-9-40-30-seconds-delay-when-emmc-booting/3403 |
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| 11:00.27 | Enissay | My current kernel is 5.8.0, that's my only kernel, but I see I still have headers from 4.19. How can I clean them up ? |
| 11:01.45 | GNU\colossus | machine_1490, do you boot your system with 'quiet' on the kernel cmdline? |
| 11:02.26 | machine_1490 | I'm not sure.... I didn't touch the default and I see lots of output before it reaches the GUI login. |
| 11:02.53 | GNU\colossus | is there anything on the screen while you have to wait these 30secs? |
| 11:03.28 | GNU\colossus | Enissay, by purging the package those files belong to :) |
| 11:04.38 | machine_1490 | GNU\colossus The order of what i see is: Brand splash, **40 second hang**, grub (mce errors then normal from here on), |
| 11:05.02 | GNU\colossus | so it's not the kernel that is delayed, but the bootloader? |
| 11:05.41 | machine_1490 | Sorry, I'm don't know what a bootloader is... |
| 11:05.45 | machine_1490 | *I don't |
| 11:05.59 | machine_1490 | The delay happens before grub |
| 11:06.00 | Enissay | GNU\colossus: I removed the corresponding kernels long ago, they were left behind I guess... Not sure how to clean them now without breaking anything |
| 11:07.42 | GNU\colossus | Enissay, try running `sudo apt-get purge "linux-headers-4.19.*"` - kernel headers are only required if you compile software that needs them (or for some debugging/tracing utils, for added convenience) |
| 11:08.06 | GNU\colossus | machine_1490, any chance you can try another OS or distro on that laptop, installed on the eMMC? |
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| 11:09.40 | machine_1490 | GNU\colossus I can, as a last resort, as it took me a while to configure everything. The hang problem is new, though, with this install a few months ago there was no hang. |
| 11:09.51 | machine_1490 | That's why I thought it was maybe the kernel update. |
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| 11:10.54 | GNU\colossus | unlikely, since the kernel is not involved at the stage where that delay occurs |
| 11:11.13 | machine_1490 | GNU\colossus Hmmm. Also the live Debian uses the same kernel. |
| 11:11.57 | machine_1490 | Would the OS have a real impact? The delay occurs before unlocking the luks drive. |
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| 11:23.55 | machine_1490 | This looks related https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=258972 |
| 11:25.51 | machine_1490 | Seems like similar MCE, but my machine doesn't restart randomly http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=146870 |
| 11:29.07 | GNU\colossus | machine_1490, have you checked if asus provides a firmware upgrade for your model? |
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| 11:30.17 | machine_1490 | GNU\colossus I did look on their website and they do not offer a BIOS update. I'll look into firmware though. |
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| 11:30.44 | GNU\colossus | that's just different labels for the same thing :) |
| 11:31.09 | machine_1490 | GNU\colossus Ah. Oops. |
| 11:32.15 | machine_1490 | The Mint forum had the solution! |
| 11:32.29 | machine_1490 | I disabled fastboot and now it boots faster ! |
| 11:33.00 | machine_1490 | The MCE are still there, but the hang is gone . I test that again.. |
| 11:33.41 | machine_1490 | Yep. Solved the hang issue. I don't get i, but it worked! |
| 11:34.48 | jelly | dpkg, qotd308 is <reply><machine_1490> I disabled fastboot and now it boots faster ! |
| 11:34.50 | dpkg | jelly: okay |
| 11:35.10 | machine_1490 | The irony. |
| 11:35.13 | machine_1490 | haha |
| 11:37.16 | GNU\colossus | nice |
| 11:37.49 | jelly | one more and 300-309 can be added to !qotd0 |
| 11:39.57 | machine_1490 | I just reenabled fastboot and the hang is still gone. I had moved the boot order around, but now I've put it back. I think that the BIOS was just feeling forgotten and wanted some settings changed and then put back. Anyway, thanks for your help! |
| 11:41.31 | jelly | !win machine_1490 |
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| 11:41.31 | dpkg | Congratulations, machine_1490! You have won the time-life collection of vintage AOL CDs, a set of 120! |
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| 11:42.19 | machine_1490 | Nice one! |
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| 12:31.06 | ecraven | hello ;) are there a current pxe boot files for bullseye? the ones on http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/bullseye/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/debian-installer/amd64/ seem old, and they raise errors about no matching kernel modules found |
| 12:32.58 | jelly | ecraven, try weekly builds |
| 12:33.33 | ecraven | where do I find those? |
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| 12:36.34 | jelly | starting from https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ ... wait, now I can't find netboot files for those either |
| 12:36.46 | ecraven | ;) |
| 12:37.58 | ecraven | I tried just extracting the kernel + initrd from the isos, but that doesn't seem to work... my pxe-fu is weak :-/ |
| 12:38.08 | jelly | bot there're netboot files for daily images linked. |
| 12:38.15 | jelly | https://d-i.debian.org/daily-images/amd64/daily/netboot/debian-installer/amd64/ |
| 12:38.40 | ecraven | thanks, I'll try those ;) |
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| 12:39.33 | hansol | in debian we dont have command dh ? |
| 12:41.06 | jelly | hansol, debhelper package, and if you're asking for that you're possibly building something from sources and might be missing OTHER stuff. What are you trying to do? |
| 12:42.08 | ecraven | thanks a lot, that seems to work! any rough eta on when bullseye will be released? |
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| 12:42.51 | Franciman | jelly, I fixed my wifi issue |
| 12:43.28 | Franciman | they added a few new fields in a struct, and in a union, changing the size of data structures that are to be handed to the firmware |
| 12:43.31 | hansol | jelly i have a usb hdd connected to pc, how to check its connected ? |
| 12:44.00 | Franciman | this, in order to accomodate a new wifi card which has 64bit bus |
| 12:44.06 | jelly | hansol, lsblk, lsusb |
| 12:44.31 | Franciman | now, if I remove those extra fields, which are useless for my card, I don't have crashes, anymore |
| 12:44.37 | Franciman | but I think this is a bug in the firmware |
| 12:44.46 | Franciman | do you think I need to post the patch to debian? |
| 12:44.50 | Franciman | or to the driver mantainers? |
| 12:44.52 | echoSMILE | I have a video card "Intel HD Graphics 5500". How can I check I am using the best drivers for a better performance? |
| 12:45.21 | jelly | Franciman, no idea, it might be a useful data point for either of those |
| 12:45.36 | towo^work | echoSMILE, use a recent kernel and mesa |
| 12:45.47 | jelly | echoSMILE, there's pretty much one set of drivers for intel gpus. Which debian release are you using? |
| 12:45.59 | jelly | echoSMILE, which CPU model is that specifically? |
| 12:46.07 | echoSMILE | 10.9 |
| 12:46.27 | echoSMILE | jelly: i7-5600 |
| 12:47.20 | jelly | echoSMILE, firmware for intel GPUs seems to be in firmware-misc-nonfree package, install it of it's not there |
| 12:48.57 | echoSMILE | jelly: I need to add a parameter at /etc/apt/sources.list for it right? |
| 12:48.57 | jelly | echoSMILE, also install and run "vainfo" to see if the bits for accelerated video decoding are there |
| 12:49.09 | jelly | !non-free sources |
| 12:49.09 | dpkg | Edit /etc/apt/sources.list, ensure that the two main Debian mirror lines end with "main contrib non-free" rather than just "main", then «apt-get update». But bear in mind that you'll be installing <non-free> software. These may have onerous terms; check the licenses. See also <sources.list>. |
| 12:49.31 | hansol | jelly it show me that disk is sdb and part is sdb1 |
| 12:50.06 | hansol | !mount |
| 12:50.06 | dpkg | mount is probably a command used to mount a device to the local filesystem. `man 8 mount`. See also <reference>, <fstab>. |
| 12:50.10 | jelly | hansol, okay. Do you have a question? |
| 12:50.31 | hansol | jelly i cant enter to /sdb and /sdb1 , i have to mount them first ? |
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| 12:51.42 | jelly | hansol, yes, and your desktop environment and file browser might have an easy way to do that |
| 12:52.03 | jelly | you're probably only going to mount the filesystem on /dev/sdb1 |
| 12:52.13 | echoSMILE | towo^work: when you say mesa you mean "mesa-utils" ? |
| 12:52.22 | jelly | hansol, now, can you answer my question about dh? |
| 12:52.38 | echoSMILE | jelly: after firmware-misc-nonfree I should reboot right? |
| 12:53.13 | jelly | echoSMILE, yes |
| 12:53.59 | Franciman | jelly, I would like to also stress that their propertary software has a bug and they are dumb AF |
| 12:54.05 | Franciman | because they don't release that code to the public |
| 12:54.19 | Franciman | so they are knowingly shipping wrong code just to save their property |
| 12:54.25 | Franciman | they should be sued |
| 12:54.26 | jelly | echoSMILE, while we're talking about mesa, are libgl1-mesa-dri, mesa-utils and x11-utils installed? |
| 12:54.44 | echoSMILE | jelly: 1min |
| 12:55.54 | echoSMILE | jelly: yep, all installed |
| 12:55.55 | jelly | Franciman, I can't comment constructively on that. If you're a customer of a proprietary software or firmware vendor, I'd strongly try to look for support before engaging in legal actions. |
| 12:56.19 | Franciman | thanks sensei |
| 12:56.27 | RoyK | hm - is openvass removed from bullseye? |
| 12:56.27 | RoyK | s/vass/vas/ |
| 12:56.40 | jelly | echoSMILE, then you can look at "glxinfo" and "xdriinfo" output to see something about opengl/mesa/dri working or not working |
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| 12:57.15 | jelly | ,v openvas |
| 12:57.16 | judd | Package: openvas on amd64 -- stretch: 6.0.9-2; buster: 9.0.3; sid: 20.8.0.2 |
| 12:57.33 | jelly | dpkg, why is openvas not in testing |
| 12:57.33 | dpkg | openvas is not in testing for the reasons listed in https://qa.debian.org/excuses.php?package=openvas |
| 12:58.29 | RoyK | No excuse for openvas |
| 12:58.40 | jelly | click the "package tracker", looks like it's been removed from debian completely |
| 12:59.20 | jelly | ,v gvm |
| 12:59.21 | judd | Package: gvm on amd64 -- sid: 20.8.0.2 |
| 12:59.23 | RoyK | I just wonder why - I tried to search for clues, but couldn't find any |
| 12:59.33 | jelly | "replaced by gvm" |
| 12:59.54 | jelly | so then you https://qa.debian.org/excuses.php?package=gvm :-) |
| 12:59.59 | RoyK | !gvm |
| 13:00.15 | hansol | jelly is better to mout disk or partiton ? |
| 13:00.20 | echoSMILE | jelly: glxinfo seems to be ok according to what is expected. xdriinfo just output "screen 0: i965" and glxgears seems to be slower (number of frames are lower) than before. |
| 13:01.08 | RoyK | hansol: depends what you want, really. personally, I use lvm all over to allow migration and so on later without the hassle of partitions |
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| 13:01.19 | jelly | echoSMILE, I _think_ accelerated drivers default to vsync, so you're getting 60fps or whatever the monitor refresh rate is by default |
| 13:02.02 | jelly | hansol, you can only mount the device which has the filesystem in it, that's almost always the partition |
| 13:02.33 | RoyK | hansol: is this a separate drive or the one from which you're booting? |
| 13:02.38 | jelly | I'm assuming there's a prexisting filesystem with data already on it |
| 13:02.47 | jelly | RoyK, usb disk |
| 13:03.07 | jelly | they asked to see if it was connected, so probably not the boot device |
| 13:03.08 | RoyK | jelly: is there any data on it? |
| 13:03.19 | hansol | i have mounted mhy USB drive |
| 13:03.29 | hansol | with part |
| 13:03.41 | hansol | i want to try with a USB HDD now. |
| 13:03.56 | RoyK | hansol: df -hT should tell |
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| 13:04.42 | echoSMILE | jelly: Tks. Now let me check how to config kvm vm's to use GPU in the best way possible. |
| 13:04.59 | RoyK | most USB drives come with FAT32 or exFAT, which works, somehow, for data, but is rather far from optimal for linux, but is portable-ish between platforms |
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| 13:05.19 | RoyK | that is - FAT32 usually works everywhere, exFAT is a bit more sketchy |
| 13:06.08 | RoyK | or perhaps that's changed now? don't remember - M$ apparently released it to OSS without the patents, but I haven't paid close attention to that part |
| 13:07.28 | hansol | its NTFS my USB HDD |
| 13:08.12 | hansol | but when i mount, i have this message Disc contain unclean filesystem (0, 0) |
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| 13:08.44 | hansol | The filesystem wasn't safetly closed on Windows. Fixing |
| 13:08.58 | hansol | and dont give me the file directory list with -ls |
| 13:09.00 | RoyK | not surprising - someone probably yanked it from the computer |
| 13:09.18 | hansol | i start chkdsk with /r /f in windows |
| 13:09.25 | RoyK | do you use this on windows as well as on linux? |
| 13:09.42 | hansol | yes |
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| 13:11.30 | jelly | try to "Safely remove the device" each time |
| 13:12.04 | RoyK | seems exfat is in 5.4 |
| 13:12.20 | RoyK | that is, in the kernel, without using FUSE |
| 13:12.31 | RoyK | so probably a better choice if you want to move disks areound |
| 13:12.49 | RoyK | https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux-5.4-Released |
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| 13:23.14 | jelly | also, paragon has open-sauced their kernel ntfs driver recently |
| 13:23.36 | oxek | jelly: is it in a kernel release yet though? |
| 13:24.08 | jelly | no, this was like a week or two back. Not sure what "ntfs v3.1" translates to in Windows versions tho. |
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| 13:26.55 | towo^work | jelly, it works without problem with my parallel installed windows 10 pro |
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| 13:28.45 | jelly | https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20210402155347.64594-1-almaz.alexandrovich@paragon-software.com/ this driver, already in 26th attempt to merge :-) |
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| 13:30.19 | echoSMILE | I am getting errors at tpm-tools instalation. I see at BIOS the security chip selected is "intel PTT" and not "discrete TPM". Are both able to be used at debian? |
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| 13:42.52 | echoSMILE | It seems the trousers service is failing |
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| 13:49.29 | jelly | maybe the versions of stuff on your linux don't support "intel PTT" yet? |
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| 13:53.00 | echoSMILE | jelly: virt manager seems to not recognize the device |
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| 14:06.03 | echoSMILE | jelly: great, now any package install the trousers.service try to start with error |
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| 14:08.29 | jelly | I don't know anything about trousers |
| 14:08.52 | cws | One leg at a time |
| 14:08.58 | echoSMILE | :P |
| 14:09.01 | GNU\colossus | I'm not wearing any :X |
| 14:09.02 | jelly | if I can avoid pants, I do, WFH has been a blessing and a curse |
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| 14:09.43 | jelly | GNU\colossus, your skirts are lovely. |
| 14:09.55 | GNU\colossus | blushes |
| 14:09.59 | echoSMILE | thos came up when trying to install tpm-tools. I removed tpm-tools but still |
| 14:10.04 | echoSMILE | appers. |
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| 14:10.22 | jelly | maybe purge the package completely |
| 14:10.39 | jelly | judd, file trousers.service |
| 14:10.44 | judd | No packages in buster/amd64 were found with that file. |
| 14:10.49 | jelly | o.o |
| 14:11.43 | jelly | judd, file init.d/trousers |
| 14:11.48 | judd | Search for init.d/trousers in buster/amd64: trousers: etc/init.d/trousers |
| 14:12.10 | jelly | echoSMILE, purge the package, if possible, and "systemctl daemon-reload" |
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| 14:12.56 | echoSMILE | jelly: which package? tpm-tools? |
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| 14:14.11 | jelly | echoSMILE, trousers |
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| 14:16.08 | echoSMILE | didn't knew trousers were a package. done. |
| 14:16.11 | echoSMILE | tks |
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| 14:31.28 | jelly | usually trousers contain a package not the other way round |
| 14:31.43 | jelly | will be here all week |
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| 15:01.02 | tinga | Is there any way to have files stored on a remove storage server but have them encrypted so that the server does not see their contents? |
| 15:01.12 | tinga | Nor, preferably, file names? |
| 15:02.13 | imMute | tinga: if the server exposes block devices, sure, mount one and put an encrypted FS on it. if it's something like NFS you can encrypt the file contents but probably not the paths |
| 15:03.06 | tinga | How would the server expose block devices? I just spent 5 hours of my life on NBD and think it's a steaming pile of manure, so I'm looking for something else. |
| 15:03.21 | greycat | iscsi, for one |
| 15:03.49 | tinga | Do you have positive experience with that one? |
| 15:04.14 | greycat | Only a tiny bit, but the server wasn't Debian -- it was a dedicated device. |
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| 15:11.46 | Foxfir3_ | any debain devs here? Whats going on with that letter to RMS? Will Debian stay wise and stay out of it? |
| 15:12.13 | cws | Not the right forum for this question. |
| 15:12.35 | Foxfir3_ | sorry. thought it was a Debian package |
| 15:13.17 | Foxfir3_ | cws: what forum is right for it? |
| 15:14.00 | cws | To be frank, probably none. I doubt there's anyone here, or in any other forum, that wants to hear more about it. |
| 15:14.34 | Foxfir3_ | cws: thats also kind of an answer |
| 15:14.44 | cws | No, it really isn't. |
| 15:15.07 | cws | But I can tell you that this channel definitely isn't it. |
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| 15:15.52 | greycat | if any channel here is appropriate, it would be #gnu |
| 15:16.07 | Foxfir3_ | greycat: thanks :) |
| 15:16.45 | Foxfir3_ | btw. loving pure Debian. Its just a bit boring. |
| 15:16.54 | greycat | We *like* boring. |
| 15:17.05 | Foxfir3_ | :) |
| 15:18.08 | jelly | boring's a good feature, for UI and such |
| 15:18.25 | greycat | Boring means nothing is broken. Everything is working. |
| 15:18.58 | jelly | well it means you already know which bits are broken, and how to work around them |
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| 15:21.00 | jelly | tinga, nbd is probably the easy, simple and wrong way; any remote block dev used, use it only if you can trust the network connection |
| 15:21.24 | tinga | I'm happy to tunnel through ssh. |
| 15:21.57 | jelly | ssh is already a layer of tcp, you'll want to avoid that, latency issues |
| 15:22.29 | jelly | consider looking at file-based encryption like encfs |
| 15:22.31 | tinga | The problem with nbd is that the only way of authentication it offers is via SSL keys. And then tons of issues and they changed how its configuration works and I just couldn't get it to run anymore, even when using old style config. |
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| 15:22.49 | tinga | I've run into a dozen+ issues in either docs or implementation and now I've had enough. |
| 15:23.02 | jelly | I just run it unauthenticated, over a trusted p2p vpn |
| 15:23.30 | tinga | That's what I ended up trying but it warns me that oldstyle config isn't supported anymore and silently just doesn't work as it should. |
| 15:23.35 | jelly | it's a hack, so I don't recommend it unless you understand the pitfalls |
| 15:24.09 | jelly | which client and server OS/distro and release? |
| 15:24.17 | tinga | It looks like a horrible hack, and there are ~4 forks that tried to improve on it and all but one seem dead. So, I just give up. There's 2 Rust crates, if I had any hopes it would be with those. |
| 15:24.44 | tinga | Both Debian. stable on server, oldstable on client. |
| 15:24.47 | jelly | iscsi is the more enterprisey option |
| 15:25.28 | jelly | ,v xnbd-client |
| 15:25.29 | judd | Package: xnbd-client on amd64 -- jessie: 0.3.0-1; stretch: 0.3.0-2; buster: 0.3.0-3 |
| 15:25.49 | jelly | ok, those exist on both oldstable and stable |
| 15:25.52 | tinga | I noticed that one, checked Github and it's not been updated for 5 years or something IIRC so didn't try that one. |
| 15:26.15 | tinga | Also, doesn't offer clear text authentication either IIRC. Which is what I wanted (via ssh tunnel). |
| 15:27.03 | jelly | nbd is simple and dumb. Any auth bolted on can probably be easily worked around |
| 15:27.07 | tinga | Also the nbd code base has been worked on and off by about a dozen different people, and I just don't have trust into its security (buffer overflows etc.) given the chaos I've seen. |
| 15:27.35 | jelly | yeah, if you don't control both ends, don't use it |
| 15:27.44 | tinga | I like that it's simple but I don't like that the servers and clients are so bad even though they *are* simple. |
| 15:27.59 | jelly | I control both ends and the vpn between |
| 15:28.30 | jelly | and I still only use it every now and then. |
| 15:28.54 | tinga | ssh auth is the main auth but if I provide multiple users access to the same server with their own block devices they can still overwrite each other's block devices given that they all have access to localhost. |
| 15:29.11 | tinga | So it would need cleartext auth for the NBD protocol itself, too. |
| 15:29.54 | tinga | So the only way I *could* make it work would be with keys, but then I didn't even manage to get it to work with zero auth so I give up. |
| 15:30.11 | shtrb | was not following but why not iscsi ? |
| 15:30.17 | tinga | Yes, I may use iscsi. |
| 15:30.28 | tinga | Do you have experience with it? |
| 15:30.35 | shtrb | :-( yes |
| 15:30.47 | shtrb | but as a user only |
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| 15:31.26 | tinga | I currently wonder whether I could use a file over NFS as the backing store for a local loop mount? |
| 15:32.10 | tinga | But I guess that may lose write ordering and such things. |
| 15:32.42 | tinga | If iscsi works decently then I should try that. |
| 15:33.22 | shtrb | tinga, just don't expect that to be secure or anything. it shouldn't be trusted on a public network, and I would never attach that over the internet |
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| 15:44.09 | ramzy | hi |
| 15:44.22 | ramzy | my systew outputs audio twice |
| 15:44.43 | ramzy | im on xfce with i3 on top |
| 15:44.52 | ramzy | how can i fix it |
| 15:48.49 | ratrace | ramzy: "xfce with i3 on top" .. what is that? and what do you mean "twice"? |
| 15:49.43 | greycat | Those were the same things I was wondering. |
| 15:49.54 | ramzy | i like this helhello welwelcome ..etc |
| 15:50.14 | ramzy | ratrace:xfce and i3 winhow manger |
| 15:50.30 | greycat | How are you producing the audio? Is it an MP3 file, and are you playing it with some program? |
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| 15:51.35 | ramzy | greycat: youtube |
| 15:52.06 | tinga | From the web browser? Firefox or Chromium? |
| 15:52.19 | ramzy | firefox |
| 15:53.01 | avu | ramzy: first, try some other method of playing audio to make sure it's actually a generic problem and not something specific to Firefox or so |
| 15:55.03 | tinga | ramzy, could it be a microphone being played back? i.e. microphone picks up sound of speakers, plays it back with a delay. |
| 15:55.28 | ramzy | its delayed yes |
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| 15:55.39 | tinga | Yes, but can you hear your own voice, for example? |
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| 15:55.56 | ramzy | no |
| 15:56.28 | tinga | Is this a freshly installed system? |
| 15:56.40 | ramzy | no |
| 15:56.50 | tinga | Has it only started happening now? |
| 15:56.56 | ramzy | but its relativly new |
| 15:57.13 | ramzy | >Has it only started happening now? |
| 15:57.13 | ramzy | after installing i3 |
| 15:57.45 | tinga | OK, I don't know i3. Maybe there's a #i3 channel, dunno. |
| 15:58.04 | tinga | Try mplayer on an mp3, for example, to see if it happens, too. You could "killall pulseaudio" and try mplayer again. |
| 15:58.43 | tinga | You could start xfce instead of i3 (without installing/uninstalling anything) and see if it still happens. |
| 15:59.11 | ramzy | i asked there they basicly left me on read and its a universal problem |
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| 15:59.43 | tinga | OK. You'll need to try to pin it down, so try those things. |
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| 16:00.24 | tinga | BTW did you install i3 from Debian or elsewhere? |
| 16:01.01 | ramzy | debian |
| 16:01.24 | ramzy | the full thing as well not just i3wm |
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| 16:04.55 | tinga | Maybe it's an audio effect? Maybe it's a bug. Maybe a misconfiguration. There are a few ways how to play audio on Linux: (a) bare ALSA, (b) pulseaudio, (c) jackd, (d) pipewire (from Debian 10 onwards) |
| 16:05.59 | karlpinc | !alsa checklist |
| 16:06.00 | dpkg | 1) add yourself to the 'audio' group (log out & in again) 2) unmute and raise channels w/ alsamixer (also try muting some & toggle jack sense if available) 3) <pulseaudio> or other daemon stopped? 4) speakers on? 5) does "aplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Noise.wav" work for root? 6) purge any installed <oss4> packages to remove ALSA blacklist. See also <list alsa users>, <alsa firmware>. |
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| 16:07.46 | tinga | So one of the things to figure out is which system you're using. Check what you've got installed: dpkg -l "*"|egrep ^i|egrep 'jack|pulseaudio|pipewire' |
| 16:08.43 | ramzy | also not working in xfce |
| 16:08.58 | tinga | You mean, you hear double audio in xfce, too? |
| 16:09.08 | ramzy | yes |
| 16:09.32 | tinga | Have you tried mplayer? |
| 16:09.56 | ramzy | i dont know what is tht or how to try it |
| 16:09.59 | tinga | That's a command line program. It takes a video or audio file as argument. |
| 16:10.04 | tinga | apt install mplayer |
| 16:10.33 | greycat | next question will be "but I don't have any audio files" |
| 16:11.36 | tinga | ramzy, try the "aplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Noise.wav" from above |
| 16:11.40 | ramzy | after installing i do ''mplayer <my file path> |
| 16:11.45 | tinga | yep |
| 16:12.18 | tinga | You need to either hit the tab key for filename completion, or put quotes around the path, if it contains spaces or special characters. |
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| 16:14.47 | ramzy | okay the noise one warks in both players but i couldn't tell if they ar duplicated or not |
| 16:15.11 | tinga | Look if there are other files in "ls /usr/share/sounds/alsa/" that you could try |
| 16:15.39 | tinga | Also: ls /usr/share/sounds/ |
| 16:16.17 | ramzy | lots of surrounding voice stuff |
| 16:16.53 | ramzy | nope.. also duped |
| 16:17.00 | tinga | OK |
| 16:17.05 | kats99 | I used debootstrap to install bullseye and I want to delete that but when I rm rf that folder it cannot remove the proc directory and says Operation not permitted |
| 16:17.29 | tinga | ramzy, now run: dpkg -l "*"|egrep ^i|egrep 'jack|pulseaudio|pipewire' |
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| 16:18.30 | tinga | ramzy, if you're not sure how to read the output, copy to a paste service, e.g. https://paste.debian.net |
| 16:18.57 | tinga | kats99, umount /..../proc |
| 16:19.12 | tinga | kats99, although you'll have to umount some mounts inside that, too, probably. |
| 16:20.03 | tinga | kats99, this should show you all the mounts: cat /proc/mounts | grep -v -F '<path to the root of your debootstrap>' |
| 16:20.10 | tinga | ehr |
| 16:20.13 | tinga | kats99, this should show you all the mounts: cat /proc/mounts | grep -F '<path to the root of your debootstrap>' |
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| 16:21.52 | tinga | kats99, Also this^ must be an absolute path. If in doubt, just "cat /proc/mounts" and look out yourself. |
| 16:22.09 | lowin | Hello, can anyone tell me what key sequence I need to press to disable kernel lockdown mode? |
| 16:23.57 | ramzy | https://ibb.co/NTmSQ3Y |
| 16:24.13 | ramzy | tinga: here |
| 16:25.03 | tinga | ramzy, pulseaudio is what you're using. |
| 16:25.10 | tinga | wait, jack, too |
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| 16:25.42 | ramzy | ooh.. i get it they are bath working at tte same time |
| 16:25.51 | tinga | so, now run: ps auxww|egrep 'jackd|pulseaudio'|grep -v grep |
| 16:26.02 | tinga | yes, it might have to do with that |
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| 16:27.55 | jelly | lowin, are you talking about this thing? https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man7/kernel_lockdown.7.html |
| 16:28.43 | ramzy | tinga: no output |
| 16:28.45 | lowin | jelly, Yes. but it says it was added in 5.4 in that page which is weird |
| 16:29.01 | lowin | I'm running the default 4.19 in buster |
| 16:29.45 | jelly | some features get backported to longterm kernel branches. How did you enable it in the first place? |
| 16:29.46 | lowin | from my understanding it should be alt-sysrq-x but when I press it I only get a "help" listing in dmesg |
| 16:30.09 | lowin | It's enabled by default in secureboot, I want to disable it to test something without rebooting |
| 16:30.12 | ramzy | tinga: u here? |
| 16:30.21 | tinga | ramzy, interesting. To double check, can you run: "killall pulseaudio" and then also "killall jackd"? Both should say "... no process found" |
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| 16:30.42 | lowin | This is the error I get: "Lockdown: Direct MSR access is restricted; see https://wiki.debian.org/SecureBoot" |
| 16:31.17 | jelly | > If the kernel is appropriately configured, lockdown may be lifted by typing the appropriate sequence on a directly attached physical keyboard. For x86 machines, this is SysRq+x. |
| 16:31.28 | jelly | _if_ the kernel is appropriately configured |
| 16:31.37 | ramzy | "bash:killall:command not found" |
| 16:31.53 | greycat | !buster su |
| 16:31.53 | dpkg | In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). See https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes for details. |
| 16:32.05 | greycat | also consider using pkill instead of killall |
| 16:32.12 | jelly | but killall is in /usr/bin |
| 16:32.19 | tinga | ramzy, run: dpkg -s psmisc | grep Status |
| 16:32.28 | greycat | ,file bin/killall |
| 16:32.32 | tinga | ramzy, this should say "Status: install ok installed" |
| 16:32.34 | judd | Search for bin/killall in buster/amd64: psmisc: usr/bin/killall |
| 16:32.48 | lowin | jelly, So I guess debian's kernel isn't configured to do this? |
| 16:33.01 | jelly | lowin, that would be my guess as well |
| 16:33.06 | greycat | I don't even *have* psmisc installed apparently... but I do have pkill. |
| 16:33.19 | lowin | unfortunate |
| 16:33.20 | jelly | I thought it was standard |
| 16:33.21 | tinga | greycat, interesting, I wasn't aware that isn't standard |
| 16:33.43 | greycat | it's got Priority: optional |
| 16:34.05 | ramzy | tinga: its saying its not installed |
| 16:34.07 | tinga | greycat, can you show how to do the same as I posted with pkill? i.e. it should tell if it actually killed something |
| 16:34.36 | tinga | ramzy, yes, apparently that's not a standard package. I wasn't aware. You could run "apt install psmisc" (as root / with sudo) |
| 16:34.40 | jelly | lowin, I suspect you'll have to use lsm= kernel boot parameter, if you don't want to disable SecureBoot |
| 16:35.47 | jelly | fuser and pstree are in psmisc |
| 16:36.34 | ramzy | tinga: did it and ran the same command it killed pulseaudio but not jackd |
| 16:37.05 | tinga | OK, (odd that you didnt see pulseaudio from the "ps auxww...." previously, but whatever.) |
| 16:37.11 | tinga | ramzy, now try mplayer again |
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| 16:37.38 | tinga | (Hmm does mplayer actually start pulseaudio? I hope not) |
| 16:38.03 | ramzy | tinga: ahh.. duped again |
| 16:38.17 | tinga | ramzy, can you run "killall pulseaudio" again? |
| 16:38.38 | ramzy | no output ...it killed it |
| 16:38.53 | tinga | So, mplayer probably started it on the fly again. Not what I wanted. |
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| 16:39.07 | tinga | Let me check how to disable it |
| 16:39.35 | ramzy | cant i just delete it? |
| 16:40.02 | tinga | That might want to remove packages you want to keep. |
| 16:40.18 | ramzy | oof |
| 16:40.30 | ramzy | mayme disable it then |
| 16:40.54 | tinga | Try: mplayer -ao alsa <youraudiofile> |
| 16:41.52 | ramzy | nope also ran it and was duped |
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| 16:42.07 | tinga | What if you run "killall pulseaudio" now? |
| 16:42.36 | ramzy | no output |
| 16:43.05 | tinga | What if you just run "killall pulseaudio" again now, without running mplayer inbetween? |
| 16:43.06 | ramzy | gosh luke smith was right pulseaudio is a pain |
| 16:43.11 | tinga | Maybe something autostarted it. |
| 16:43.37 | ramzy | tinga: no process found |
| 16:44.03 | tinga | OK, so instead of mplayer try "aplay <someaudiofile>", it may only work for .waw files though. |
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| 16:44.23 | tinga | .wav |
| 16:44.58 | ramzy | tinga: nope also started pulse audio |
| 16:45.10 | tinga | OK something else is starting it. |
| 16:45.42 | ramzy | xfce posibly? |
| 16:45.48 | tinga | Possibly. Thinking. |
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| 16:46.45 | tinga | ramzy, Run this: sudo dpkg-divert --local --rename /usr/bin/pulseaudio |
| 16:46.58 | greycat | pulseaudio is designed to start itself automatically whenever you try to run any audio software |
| 16:47.17 | tinga | greycat, depends on whether the sofware is actively using pulseaudio lib though |
| 16:47.33 | tinga | aplay shouldn,t no? |
| 16:48.17 | tinga | ramzy, that should rename it out of the way; afterwards one more "killall pulseaudio" and we should be pulseaudi free |
| 16:50.20 | ramzy | okay but now aplay givesme an error |
| 16:50.31 | tinga | Use mplayer |
| 16:50.42 | tinga | I never really use aplay, so I don't know enough about it |
| 16:51.28 | tinga | mplayer should now be using plain ALSA, IIRC it won't give you an error (if it does, use the "-ao alsa" option we used above) |
| 16:51.40 | ramzy | still duped |
| 16:52.08 | tinga | OK, so now we know that the duping happens directly in ALSA. Interesting, not sure where that would come from. |
| 16:52.32 | ramzy | thats bad |
| 16:52.35 | tinga | And you're sure it's nothing outside of your computer? You hear the duping when using headphones plugged into the computer headphone jack, too? |
| 16:53.12 | ramzy | its a vm could it be somethitg in my host system |
| 16:54.08 | tinga | Yeah. Guess so. |
| 16:54.39 | ramzy | so should we return pulse audio to normal? |
| 16:55.18 | tinga | I think it's: sudo dpkg-divert --local --rename --remove /usr/bin/pulseaudio |
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| 16:57.04 | tinga | Yep I've confirmed that to be correct. |
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| 16:58.32 | ratrace | ramzy: how does i3-wm work with xfce? |
| 16:59.25 | ramzy | ratrace: its not 'i3wm' its 'i3' |
| 16:59.31 | ramzy | and im not using it rn |
| 16:59.39 | ratrace | ramzy: what is "i3"? |
| 17:00.11 | ratrace | the only "i3" in the repos is the i3-wm |
| 17:00.17 | jelly | ,i i3 |
| 17:00.19 | judd | Package i3 (x11, optional) in buster/amd64: metapackage (i3 window manager, screen locker, menu, statusbar). Version: 4.16.1-1; Size: 13.0k; Installed: 20k; Homepage: https://i3wm.org/; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/i3 |
| 17:00.38 | jelly | meet a package, ratrace |
| 17:00.46 | ratrace | it's still i3-wm |
| 17:00.58 | ratrace | and I'm wondering how is taht working "on top of" xfce |
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| 17:01.24 | ratrace | pure curiosity, since I'm a fan and user of i3-wm ... am I missing some functionality here |
| 17:01.59 | ramzy | ratrace: if u like getting your audio messed up.. yes |
| 17:02.14 | ratrace | ramzy: I asked how. that's not a yes/no question :) |
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| 17:03.16 | ramzy | ratrace: if u mean how it works with xfce i jush apt installed it and ran it |
| 17:03.21 | tinga | ramzy, it doesn't look like it has anything to do with i3 |
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| 17:03.46 | ratrace | ramzy: so you're logging into an i3-wm session? and xfce is there but unused, except for occasional programs from the DE suite? |
| 17:03.48 | greycat | ramzy: you can't "just run" both of them at the same time. You must have configured a custom .xsession file or *something*. We were asking what you did. |
| 17:04.10 | ratrace | audio is definitely got nothing to do with i3-wm. it has no audio management capabilities per se. |
| 17:04.28 | greycat | Because whatever you did to run both a DE and a WM (that isn't part of that DE) at the same time *could* be related to your audio issues. |
| 17:04.32 | ramzy | greycat: nothing..just logged out and logged back in to i3 |
| 17:04.44 | greycat | so you are NOT in fact running xfce at all, then? |
| 17:04.46 | ratrace | ramzy: so you're using i3-wm, and not "atop of xfce" |
| 17:05.00 | ratrace | you MAY be running individual programms, installed with xfce suite, under the i3-wm |
| 17:05.01 | tinga | ramzy, you could take this to #alsa, but AFAIK alsa doesn't do audio processing like this, so it really looks like this is not an issue on the Linux side. I don't know how it happens to be on the host side but that's where I'd look now. |
| 17:05.39 | ratrace | did anyone mention to check alsamixer if there's some weird "hardware" based "monitoring" channel which would do a feedback loop? |
| 17:05.49 | ratrace | I remember some cards in the past used to have that |
| 17:05.59 | tinga | I did ask whether microphone input (monitoring) could be it. |
| 17:06.06 | tinga | Hmm. Maybe there's more, OK |
| 17:06.14 | ratrace | this would be different from microphone input |
| 17:06.19 | tinga | ramzy, run "alsamixer" and check with ratrace |
| 17:07.23 | ramzy | tinga: i just ran aplay with a non .wav file and my ears were murdered |
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| 17:07.47 | tinga | ramzy, yeah happened to me too when I tried, looks like it's a stupid program |
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| 17:08.46 | tinga | (Even more so when it (named after "alsa play") starts pulseaudio...) |
| 17:09.13 | greycat | I never figured out what the *actual* conditions are for the pulseaudio daemon to start itself. |
| 17:09.43 | ramzy | anyway ..i ran alsa mixer and got a gui |
| 17:09.53 | EdePopede | i had to kill it a few times, whenever i started mpv, it returned. |
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| 17:10.39 | ramzy | this is such a pain i wich i just used subtitles |
| 17:10.41 | tinga | Yes, I'm diverting pulseaudio for that reason. |
| 17:12.08 | EdePopede | ramzy: some time ago i had sounds for events on hexchat. ogg next to wav, had to choose wav because ogg sounded broken. though not with mplayer, but maybe for the same reason as your aplay experience. |
| 17:12.57 | ramzy | Edepopede its not m or a player its the whole system |
| 17:13.00 | jelly | alias murderears=aplay |
| 17:13.26 | ramzy | i have to go now |
| 17:13.27 | jelly | also, mpv > mplayer, probably |
| 17:13.28 | EdePopede | a-play (a as in anti ;)) |
| 17:13.47 | alexrelis[m] | I still use VLC |
| 17:14.08 | EdePopede | yep, they fixed some things, straightened others, and added nice scripting support. and it works with libcaca even outside of X :D |
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| 17:15.19 | tinga | ramzy, "alsamixer" is a command line tool. Play around with all settings and press function keys. Or if the gui allows you to find and toggle monitors, fine. |
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| 17:16.04 | tinga | Or see whether ratrace can help you (I am not 100% sure about the monitors he's talking about) |
| 17:16.12 | tinga | s/he/they |
| 17:16.36 | ramzy | tinga: ill also play around with the vm settings bc my other machine alse had audio problems...anyway thanks for the help |
| 17:17.22 | ratrace | tinga: s/they/she |
| 17:18.53 | tinga | OK:) |
| 17:19.20 | ratrace | and this monitoring channel used to be some separate software multiplexed channel I used to see on some soundcards of the yesteryear |
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| 17:19.43 | ratrace | so bottom line, I'd mute out everything that's not directly in use (main, front, speakers) and see what happens |
| 17:20.53 | jelly | EdePopede, yes, it has caca, but also it has (easier) hwdec -oding |
| 17:21.12 | jelly | and integrated youtube-dl |
| 17:21.16 | jelly | and integrated youtube-dl support |
| 17:21.53 | EdePopede | right, and this is just ⥠|
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| 17:22.19 | EdePopede | with mplayer i had to hack a dirty and ugly script. don't even want to think of it anymore |
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| 18:11.08 | Peyam | hi |
| 18:11.32 | Peyam | I have a python applicaion that prints our some data. I would like to see those in conky |
| 18:12.23 | Peyam | how do I do that? I added "${python3.7 myscript.py}" in conkyrc. |
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| 18:17.13 | EdePopede | Peyam: i don't use it right now, but iirc you have to use one of the exec commands, only internal commands work directly |
| 18:19.16 | sney | Peyam: you could try asking in #conky as well. |
| 18:19.29 | inode33 | Can someone point me in the right direction for multi monitor, multi GPU? |
| 18:20.23 | inode33 | As in: I can plug in one or the other (GPU) and use that but if I plug in both gdm and the session only use one of them |
| 18:20.45 | inode33 | Maybe I should just run 2 instances of GDM/ mutter? Hem... |
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| 18:20.59 | sney | inode33: aiui it should just work, but there may not be very many documentation resources for it, you will probably have to tinker/debug on your own. |
| 18:21.14 | sney | anecdotally, I suspect xorg will play nicer than wayland |
| 18:21.37 | inode33 | Yeah I could run Xorg+ Wayland |
| 18:21.55 | sney | also it's probably best if you use all free drivers, since the nvidia blob has anomalous behavior in a lot of situations |
| 18:22.13 | inode33 | I just thought nVidia+QXL would be slick |
| 18:22.55 | sney | if I were trying to set this up, I'd start by getting it working with just the free drivers, and then try to shoehorn nvidia-driver into an already working situation, so there are fewer unknown variables |
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| 18:25.10 | sney | !nouveau firmware |
| 18:25.10 | dpkg | Binary-only firmware for the nouveau <DRM> driver is packaged for Debian as firmware-misc-nonfree. Without this package installed, poor 2D/3D performance and/or missing video features in the <nouveau> xorg driver is commonly experienced. To install, ask me about <non-free sources>. |
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| 18:36.12 | Peyam | EdePopede, what is iirc? |
| 18:36.31 | EdePopede | if i remember correctly |
| 18:36.38 | Peyam | ah |
| 18:37.42 | EdePopede | Peyam: maybe just look at the default config that should be somewhere in /etc or get some nice config and pimp it to work for you |
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| 18:39.07 | Peyam | EdePopede, execpi maybe |
| 18:39.09 | Peyam | let me try |
| 18:40.36 | EdePopede | btw, the manpage suggests writinga module if something is I/O intensive or sth. i had top output every 5s, a clock at 1s, no problems. |
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| 18:41.21 | generic | how can I set a modeline on debian ? |
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| 18:41.33 | generic | my screen turns black after I start x |
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| 18:43.48 | jhutchins | generic: That's probably not the solution you're looking for. |
| 18:43.58 | jhutchins | generic: Our most common fault is missing firmware. |
| 18:44.15 | jhutchins | generic: What chipset? Which release? |
| 18:46.08 | generic | jhutchins, all the releases on my disk sid/bullseye same error |
| 18:46.30 | generic | jhutchins, running an old quadro |
| 18:47.05 | jhutchins | !debian next |
| 18:47.12 | jhutchins | !next |
| 18:47.12 | dpkg | Another happy customer leaves the building. |
| 18:47.17 | jhutchins | Hmmm... |
| 18:47.41 | generic | dpkg, playing too much pacman lately |
| 18:47.41 | dpkg | generic: I don't know, could you explain it? |
| 18:47.45 | jhutchins | !debian-next |
| 18:47.45 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc |
| 18:47.53 | unixbsd | Hello, I would like to install debian using a slackware running machine. Is debootstrap possible on slack to get debian debootstrap'ped ? |
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| 18:48.32 | jhutchins | unixbsd: That would be a question for slackware support. |
| 18:48.34 | generic | unixbsd, debootstrap is possible on preeeety much anything |
| 18:49.19 | jhutchins | unixbsd: But yeah, I would expect that if it exists in slackware it should work. |
| 18:54.08 | unixbsd | cool |
| 18:54.21 | unixbsd | I will then try to add it to my rescue disk. |
| 18:54.37 | unixbsd | the problem is that a mini rescue debian is at least 350 MB. |
| 18:55.00 | unixbsd | Only slackware can be about 30-40 mb, but not debian, so that's why I need to debootstrap it on other os. |
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| 18:55.32 | generic | unixbsd, slax |
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| 19:02.30 | johnfg | hi folks |
| 19:03.03 | johnfg | Is there any reason, while running debian buster, all updates, to keep python2.7? |
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| 19:03.47 | johnfg | I've got a higher priority for python3.7, but wondered if I even needed the older. |
| 19:04.33 | generic | jhutchins, so how about a modeline ? |
| 19:05.11 | unixbsd | johnfg: the bigger questions is why python is by default there, should be way smaller base, without python pseudo automatically everywhere. |
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| 19:05.55 | generic | jhutchins, tried adding xrandr to xinitrc but no success |
| 19:09.26 | johnfg | unixbsd: Sorry, I don't understand. |
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| 19:31.58 | karlpinc | johnfg: The buster release expects "python" to invoke 2.7. So if you've got any packages, or scripts, that depend on python (the "python" package, not the python3 package) then you can't just remove python 2.7. You very likely do have such packages. |
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| 19:36.53 | jelly | dpkg, tell EdePopede about apt-zip |
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| 19:40.13 | jelly | johnfg, "aptitude why python2.7" will tell you the reasons, also ask it about python2.7-minimal |
| 19:40.16 | EdePopede | ah, that one. good that i play with hugo right now, adding apt/deb to it was one of the tasks |
| 19:40.52 | EdePopede | dpkg, tell jelly about apt offline |
| 19:41.11 | EdePopede | -zip seems to be gone after-wheezy... or wait, is this 9? |
| 19:41.17 | jelly | apparently the only remaining thing is apt-walkabout |
| 19:41.42 | EdePopede | and thanks for the opportunity anyway, finally got my "tell about" output from the bot |
| 19:43.23 | EdePopede | i had a smaller set in a directory before, and since it's a live system i only did dpkg -i *.deb. |
| 19:43.37 | jelly | ,v apt-offline |
| 19:43.38 | judd | Package: apt-offline on amd64 -- jessie: 1.5.1; stretch: 1.7.2; buster-backports: 1.8.2-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 1.8.2-2; sid: 1.8.2-2 |
| 19:43.55 | jelly | oh, that one is back as well |
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| 19:50.48 | EdePopede | either something is odd here right now or d-a.org really redirects to the particular page on the archive |
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| 20:53.16 | Rozha | some one here |
| 20:53.17 | Rozha | ? |
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| 20:53.26 | greycat | !ask |
| 20:53.26 | dpkg | If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ See <smart questions><errors>. |
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| 21:34.24 | baconicsynergy | So, the world of Free software is vast and ever-changing. I love Debian because of it's stability in this regard. But when a piece of software is so exemplary, so wonderfully written, how does the Debian project decide if and when this new software is integrated into Debian's core infrastructure? |
| 21:35.17 | baconicsynergy | Or if an existing component of Debian is replaced? |
| 21:35.44 | sney | it goes through the WNPP process like anything else, and if it's really that good, high popcon scores get it on the cd1/dvd1 isos and potentially included in major metapackages, etc |
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| 21:36.45 | sney | if you are thinking of something in particular that isn't in the archive yet, file an RFP for it. or better yet, an ITP. |
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| 21:38.37 | somiaj | It often starts by someone either already a debian dev or familiar with the software creating a debian package and going through the process to get it included in debian. I don't quite know what you mean by core, but included in debian is often enough, since most of debian software is 'optional' anyways |
| 21:40.33 | baconicsynergy | Thanks for the quick replies. I think I understand better now. |
| 21:41.06 | baconicsynergy | I hope one day I become good enough to get my hands dirty and contribute to this process! |
| 21:41.17 | baconicsynergy | For now, I have some studying to do |
| 21:41.58 | baconicsynergy | I'm focusing on C/C++ and Python right now, and I hope to eventually help the Debian packaging process |
| 21:42.06 | sney | being "good" is not nearly as important as having time and patience and decent familiarity with the software you want packaged |
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| 21:43.35 | somiaj | also, provided the software uses standard make tools, packing the software isn't overly complicated, the biggest issue is learning debian policy and workflow |
| 21:44.05 | somiaj | knowing a bit of programing is useful, but in terms of debian packaging (for most things) only the basics are needed |
| 21:44.16 | sney | and familiarity with git is a plus as well |
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| 22:39.04 | Janos | hi, question, does anyone knows how to switch to the second virtual terminal when installing Debian through a serial console ? It seems to be possible, I see a legend on top of the installer that says "[ (1*installer) 2 shell 3 shell 4- log ][ Apr 12 22:37 ]" so I guess there are 4 "terminals" and the #1 is active, what I can't find anywhere is what keyboard shortcut can be used to change |
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| 23:00.07 | johnfg | jelly: I don't even have aptitude, and apt why doesn't work. |
| 23:01.52 | johnfg | I'm installing aptitude and then run the 'why'. |
| 23:02.49 | johnfg | It only returned: i python Depends python2.7 (>= 2.7.16-1~) |
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| 23:03.46 | johnfg | For minimal it returned: i python2.7 Depends python2.7-minimal (= 2.7.16-2+deb10u1) |
| 23:04.24 | johnfg | karlpinc: jelly: Sorry that I was long in getting back. I had a couple of appts. away from the office. |
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| 23:18.49 | Stonefruit | I'd like to upgrade the hard drive in my laptop to a larger one. currently I have a single LUKS container and several logical volumes inside it. my plan is to dd my old drive onto the new one, then resize the luks volume. is there an easier way? |
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