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| 00:02.04 | awalis | hello fellows, I am using the 5 first DVDs of debian 10.8 as my local repo. as 10.9 is out, I'd like to download the "update DVDs" there is 3 of them in total on the jigdo page, I'd like to know how many of them I need (corresponding to the first 5 DVDs I already have) |
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| 00:03.25 | awalis | in other word, do the 3rd 'update' DVD for example contain fresh packages included in the 5th 'normal' DVD |
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| 00:31.35 | abrotman | awalis: IIRC, it doesn't correspond like that. You really don't have reasonable internet at your site? You prefer the ISOs? |
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| 00:34.26 | awalis | abrotman: yes, I want to keep that local network offline. |
| 00:35.07 | awalis | plus I've always wanted to take advantage of the DVDs system debian offers |
| 00:35.59 | awalis | abrotman: you mean, I might have to download all the 3 update DVDs even if I'm only using 5/16 debian DVDs |
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| 00:42.33 | dannylee | its a great day t000 be alive... |
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| 00:50.01 | abrotman | awalis: effectively. But even if you have dialup, that might be more efficient |
| 00:50.09 | abrotman | it depends on which packages you have installed, et |
| 00:50.11 | abrotman | etc |
| 00:51.44 | awalis | abrotman: my current install barely touches some of the DVD-2 packages. and currently there's no stable net on my site |
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| 01:00.24 | abrotman | awalis: I believe they're ordered by popcon, if that helps you |
| 01:01.17 | abrotman | awalis: Also note, your system won't know it needs the updated package until you scan the Update DVDs |
| 01:01.32 | abrotman | (Assuming all dependencies work out) |
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| 03:32.01 | Wafficus | Hi there, I have a question about the gqrx port. When I try launching it in terminal I get "Control port disabled "Pulseaudio error: Connection refused" |
| 03:32.16 | Wafficus | I have pulse installed, but am not sure what to do next to make it actually run |
| 03:32.19 | awalis | thanks abrotman, I'll check popcon out. |
| 03:32.36 | Wafficus | would need some assistance on this before resorting to an Ubuntu distro just for gqrx |
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| 03:39.26 | somiaj | Wafficus: are you running this as the same user that has ran the pulseaudio server? Is the pulseaudio server running? |
| 03:40.00 | somiaj | also assuming you are using the debian package for gqrx |
| 03:40.09 | Wafficus | apparently, removing ~/.config/pulse worked |
| 03:40.16 | Wafficus | since even pavucontrol wasn't working |
| 03:40.25 | Wafficus | https://askubuntu.com/questions/879037/pavucontrol-stuck-at-establishing-connection-to-pulseaudio-please-wait |
| 03:40.33 | somiaj | hmm, maybe you had something in yoru config causing problems with pulse, glad you figured it out |
| 03:40.35 | Wafficus | ^ got the fix from that thread |
| 03:40.49 | Wafficus | yeah that's the weird thing I think it automatically made some config stuff |
| 03:41.00 | Wafficus | I only have ever config'd ALSA on all my machines |
| 03:41.19 | Wafficus | but that's cause I use a Focusrite Solo interface sometimes for audio recording, and sometimes just need headphone out, etc, so nothing major |
| 03:41.25 | somiaj | Some apps may try to do that, if it keeps happening you may have to track down which app is saving that file. |
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| 07:26.24 | dosmanak | Hello. How kernel modules are loaded after boot nowadays? I don't see anything in /etc/modules nor /etc/modules-load.d yet I have plenty of modules loaded. |
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| 07:28.26 | somiaj | most are autodetected by the kernel using pciid's, usbid's and so on |
| 07:31.09 | SymbioticFemale | https://onion.debian.org still lacks v3 onions for ftp.debian.org and security.debian.org |
| 07:31.23 | SymbioticFemale | version 2 .onions will be fully depreciated and non-functional in like 2 months people |
| 07:31.41 | dosmanak | somiaj: what about ip_tables e.g.? |
| 07:33.10 | somiaj | dosmanak: I'm unsure on the exact details (and if systemd helps with this at all), but probaly through dependencies in loading the network hardware |
| 07:33.24 | somiaj | also ip_tables is depricated and nftables should be being used |
| 07:34.36 | somiaj | dosmanak: but mostly as things have become more automatic, I have paid less attention to the details, and it actually appears that modprobe is doing the work |
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| 07:35.01 | somiaj | https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/197688/are-driver-modules-loaded-and-unloaded-automatically -- has some info, modprobe uses an alais database to determine what module to load when hardware is detected |
| 07:35.53 | somiaj | others come from dependencies, and there might be some core things that are just loaded as part of booting. Use of things like /etc/modules are for if you happen to have hardware or module needs that don't get detected appropertly |
| 07:35.58 | dosmanak | I am preparing little deb package, that installs some kernel module as plugin for iptables and I realized I am not sure how to make it load after reboot. |
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| 07:37.00 | somiaj | you can put it in /etc/modules-load.d/ |
| 07:37.01 | dosmanak | Ok, I will drop it into /usr/lib/modules-load.d/my_package.conf |
| 07:37.32 | somiaj | though as mentioned iptables is being depricated, might want to look into use nftables |
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| 07:38.20 | somiaj | dosmanak: I guess /usr/lib vs /etc depends on if you want this my_package.conf to be a confflie or not, putting it in /etc/ will give more freedom for the user to edit it if they need |
| 07:39.11 | dosmanak | No need to configure the thing, just load. I find dh_installmodules not helpful here. |
| 07:40.00 | somiaj | On my machine cups does use /etc/modules-load.d -- sure it maybe just for loading, but putting in /etc allows a user to comment out/adjust without updates to the packages changing things |
| 07:40.14 | somiaj | I'd personally use /etc, but either works |
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| 07:48.16 | dosmanak | somiaj: Thank you, i will study debhelper for a bit and then try it. |
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| 10:49.48 | echoSMILE | Hi. Is there any way to sandbox apps like vscode, zoom, ... ? |
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| 10:53.39 | towo^work | echoSMILE, chroot, firejail? |
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| 10:56.00 | echoSMILE | towo^work: which one is better suited to set permissions to devices, network, filesystem, ... ? |
| 10:56.25 | towo^work | depends on your needs |
| 10:57.22 | echoSMILE | towo^work: imagine I want to block network for vscode, and block fs to zoom |
| 10:57.55 | towo^work | you can do that with both |
| 10:58.12 | towo^work | try it out and use, what is more easy for you |
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| 10:58.38 | towo^work | i for myself would use chroot |
| 11:01.13 | echoSMILE | towo^work: wiki.debian.org/chroot ? |
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| 11:30.59 | azy | anyone know of a good cherrytree replacement? it's not in apget on debian10 |
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| 11:31.19 | azy | it's an encrypted notes app |
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| 11:35.39 | ratrace | azy: you can install it from snaps |
| 11:35.44 | machine_1490 | Hi, I'm on Debian 10 trying to print via USB cord connection to a Brother 1510 printer. As per https://wiki.debian.org/Brother instructions, I downloaded printer-driver-brlaser from Debian repos. With this some pdfs print (seems to be resolution dependent: some pdfs will print with 300dpi, but not 600dpi. Others have to be run through a density |
| 11:35.45 | machine_1490 | reduction with convert before they will work). It doesn't seem to be file size dependent (some large 30MB file prints, while a smaller 1MB won't. I followed that Debian Wiki instructions and installed the Brother driver installer. No luck. Printing is still spotty. I tested evince, okular, firefox... note that this printer works with Windows. How |
| 11:35.45 | machine_1490 | can I fix this? |
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| 11:38.01 | machine_1490 | A possible issue is that I'm on a 64 bit machine and some of the drivers downloaded via the installer are 32 bit. But note that the Debian Wiki shows a mix of 64 and 32 bit drivers being used, so shouldn't be an issue, I'd imagein. |
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| 12:13.48 | terabit | I get `<p>You are not allowed to access this!</p>` on https://wiki.debian.org/AppArmor/HowToUse |
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| 12:13.59 | terabit | why would you ban VPNs :S |
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| 12:15.05 | ratrace | because of historic abuse attempts from network that hide origins? |
| 12:15.07 | terabit | was just trying to help someone anyways, sucks. Please don't ban shared infrastructure IPs |
| 12:15.09 | ratrace | *networks |
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| 12:15.30 | machine_1490 | terabit Thanks for helping me :) |
| 12:15.33 | terabit | every network hides origins, you don't see my private IP in my lan either from a regular IP |
| 12:15.47 | terabit | machine_1490: no problem. Hope it works out |
| 12:15.54 | ratrace | terabit: so why are you using VPN then :) |
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| 12:16.52 | cws | terabit: commercial vpns are snake oil garbage, you'd do well to save your money. |
| 12:16.57 | terabit | ratrace: bro, I have absolutely no reason to justify that to you. By your hostmask, you're not affiliated with the project,my question was for those who can speak in an official capacity. |
| 12:17.07 | terabit | cws: nice opinion |
| 12:17.15 | terabit | not my question |
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| 12:17.33 | ratrace | terabit: first I'm not a "bro". Second, no, you don't. I was just curious about your contradicting yourself. Anyhoo... moving on. |
| 12:17.50 | terabit | if it was corporate network I understand, but for a community driven project this is really bad |
| 12:17.55 | cws | terabit: It is, isn't it? Even better that my opinion is supported by a mountain-range of evidence approximately equivalent to the Himalayas, and you... are wasting your money on snake-oil garbage. :) |
| 12:18.28 | machine_1490 | Sorry all, didn't want to cause tension with same question in ##Linux and #debian. And thanks to all. |
| 12:18.32 | ratrace | also, maybe _that_ particular VPN you're using is especially abusive. Some allow free, unregistered "web proxy" access, easy to abuse. |
| 12:19.36 | ratrace | (and third, irc masks aren't indication of anything. I was FreeBSD committer and maintainer with a mask that wasn't "freebsd") |
| 12:19.38 | terabit | ratrace: it's an informal term similar to "my friend" , I am aware we're not related. I wasn't contradicting myself. I simply wanted to bring to the attention of debian developers and admins. if the project does not wish to allow people who use Tor, a VPN or some other "origin hiding" (as you said) IPs to use Debian, I can respect that decision |
| 12:20.01 | terabit | cws: again, that's cute, i Have no interest in having that debate with you, not the time or place. |
| 12:20.18 | ratrace | maybe it's not about all VPNs but that particular network |
| 12:20.28 | terabit | machine_1490: you didn't, I could have ignored it and moved on, I didn't because it's a pet-peeve |
| 12:20.44 | cws | Which indicates a particular talent in picking the worst apple from a barrel full of rotten ones. |
| 12:21.43 | ratrace | terabit: my comment about "bro" wasn't about us being related. Please be inclusive of all genders. I'm not a man, thus, I'm not not a "bro". |
| 12:21.55 | terabit | ratrace: which makes sense, but in general it's bad practice to ban IPs unless you have no other option. This would prevent me from using debian and thousands of other users will be excluded to. my point was not to rant but to let the devs know this block has serious impact |
| 12:23.08 | ratrace | terabit: then maybe try the OFTC chans, those are more "official". |
| 12:23.31 | terabit | ratrace: "bro" just like "guy" is not a gender specific term in this context unless you misunderstood as my meaning to call you a relative. It is not formal english so I can understand why you would misunderstand. I don't frequent this channel but if I do I'll avoid that term |
| 12:23.41 | terabit | ratrace: thanks, I will |
| 12:24.00 | Unit193 | terabit: Huh, that may be a specifically abused VPN. I just tried with tor and at least the exit I'm using viewed the page fine. |
| 12:24.35 | Unit193 | Perhaps still odd to block read-only unless it's specifically agressive. |
| 12:25.28 | Ede|Popede | on what level does that block happen? network, httpd, scripting, ...? |
| 12:26.01 | terabit | Unit193: It's proton, they're main stream. maybe their abuse script didn't like one specific attack (they just switch scanners so it won't help if it is to avoid vuln scans). IP blocks don't help with DDOS and if it is exploit attempts, just fix it because they won't go away because you blocked an IP, they just move to a new IP usually. anyway, I made my point |
| 12:26.30 | terabit | Unit193: I don't mind solving captchas or using it behind Cloudflare,etc... |
| 12:26.53 | terabit | Ede|Popede: looks like httpd level (403) |
| 12:27.15 | ratrace | depends on type of abuse. on our company servers, we employ WAFs that detect SQL injections and then bans the ip for 24 hours. We log those and if a network is particularly abusive in that regard, the whole ASN gets permanently firewalled |
| 12:27.38 | ratrace | I have hundreds of ASNs in permaban ipsets :) |
| 12:27.43 | Unit193 | Excessive auth attempts tend to trigger blocks too. |
| 12:29.14 | cws | ratrace: wow, that's nasty :P |
| 12:29.15 | Ede|Popede | oh, not even an edit link w/o being logged in. |
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| 12:30.23 | machine_1490 | Update re printer: I just hadn't selected the proper driver in the printer app after using the Brother installer. |
| 12:30.33 | terabit | ratrace: I've seen companies that even block entire countries,not surprising tbh. I've also seen companies where IP blocks are a huge deal because of the type of business they have. If it avoids actual operational impact and it is the best solution it makes sense. but if someone banned my VPN IP and it was a site I was doing business with I'd just move on. |
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| 12:32.41 | terabit | cws: if you're interested I replied on this very long gist thread on my opinion on VPNs https://gist.github.com/joepie91/5a9909939e6ce7d09e29#gistcomment-3666235 feel free to continue the discussion there |
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| 13:30.34 | echoSMILE | at the moment I am using gtk2. If I install gtk+3 I will jump on problems or things will work normally? |
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| 13:36.20 | echoSMILE | Or can I have both versions installed? |
| 13:39.05 | TheBigK02 | echoSMILE: as long as u dont have any apt dependency conflicts... i would assume everything works in parallel ... but no guarantees on that from me :) |
| 13:40.26 | TheBigK02 | echoSMILE: or did u compile those frameworks manually from source or something like that? |
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| 13:41.32 | echoSMILE | TheBigK02: nop from source. I am trying to compile a xfce plugin from source, but he is asking for gtk+3 |
| 13:42.19 | TheBigK02 | echoSMILE: i dont understand... u did also compile xfce from source? |
| 13:42.41 | TheBigK02 | echoSMILE: as long as u use the debian native libraries for the dependencies, u should be fine |
| 13:43.20 | echoSMILE | TheBigK02: nop. only one plugin |
| 13:43.57 | TheBigK02 | echoSMILE: as long as u can install those dependency libraries without any conflicts in apt, u should be on the working side |
| 13:44.21 | echoSMILE | let me try. |
| 13:44.22 | echoSMILE | tks |
| 13:45.00 | TheBigK02 | but thats no garantee since ur working outside of the debian package system... always having a working backup is a good start :) |
| 13:45.16 | TheBigK02 | god i cant type today... sorry for the mistakes ;) |
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| 14:24.13 | hegemoOn | is there an equivalentof --ignore-depends of dpkg for apt-get -o ? |
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| 14:26.05 | oxek | hegemoOn: don't know, but you can work around it by `apt download <package>` and then dpkg install it |
| 14:26.36 | oxek | the point of apt is dependency management, so disabling that makes little sense I guess |
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| 14:26.59 | hegemoOn | well, im not asking for a philosophical appreciation |
| 14:27.12 | hegemoOn | but an effective solution to my specific need |
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| 14:27.47 | maxf | Hey, when I plug an android device, I can browse its file in a gui file manager (I'm using gnome/debian sid). But I can't figure out what's its actual path is (so I can do stuff from CLI). My file manager tell me the device is at `mtp://redacted_reference_here/`. How can I find where the device really is ? |
| 14:29.19 | crimsonhawk009 | maxf: did you poke around in /run/user/ ? |
| 14:29.32 | maxf | crimsonhawk009, I did nothing there :/ |
| 14:30.01 | crimsonhawk009 | maxf: take a peak in there once you have it connected |
| 14:30.02 | maxf | `ls /var/run/user/1000/gvfs/` returns nothing |
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| 14:31.45 | maxf | same for /run/user/1000/gvfs/ |
| 14:32.03 | oxek | /var/run is just a link to /run |
| 14:33.02 | oxek | I'm not sure if it's easily possible to do commandline stuff on MTP connected devices |
| 14:33.07 | oxek | have you considered `adb shell`? |
| 14:35.46 | crimsonhawk009 | Huh when I have it mounted it shows up in /run/user/$UID/gvfs/mtp\:host\=$PHONE_PHONESID/ |
| 14:36.55 | maxf | `ls -R /run/user/|wc -l` returns the same number with device plug or unplug |
| 14:39.53 | crimsonhawk009 | Oh woops thats because thunar is mounting it for me |
| 14:40.47 | maxf | oxek, I don't want to have a shell on the device, but to be able to do stuff with the files mounted on my local computer (like move them somewhere on my computer, from the terminal). |
| 14:41.04 | oxek | maxf: do you have gvfs-backends package installed? |
| 14:41.44 | oxek | and gvfs-fuse |
| 14:42.22 | maxf | gvfs-backends yes, gvfs-fuse no |
| 14:42.38 | oxek | might need the fuse one then |
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| 14:55.40 | maxf | oxek, gvfs-fuse installed, still nothing /run/user/1000/gvfs |
| 14:55.49 | maxf | maybe I should reboot ? |
| 14:56.03 | oxek | logout/login, or perhaps yeah reboot |
| 14:56.14 | oxek | gvfs is quite the monster |
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| 14:58.56 | SymbioticFemale | https://onion.debian.org still lacks v3 onions for ftp.debian.org and security.debian.org |
| 14:59.24 | oxek | very few have v3 onion sites |
| 14:59.38 | oxek | they'll be added in time, as the v2 deprecation date is nearing |
| 14:59.44 | SymbioticFemale | yes |
| 14:59.54 | SymbioticFemale | very soon in the eyes of system admins, lol |
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| 15:01.42 | oxek | tbf I'm not a fan of debian having separate onion addresses for each service |
| 15:02.25 | oxek | doesn't really make much sense, since one could simply be a proxy for all the services, and not even use the full 3 hops for onion services |
| 15:04.01 | SymbioticFemale | i don't think onions support subdomains |
| 15:04.15 | oxek | SymbioticFemale: they do |
| 15:04.36 | SymbioticFemale | reducing the number of hops on the other hand is at the discretion of whomever controls the torrc |
| 15:04.43 | SymbioticFemale | oxek: that's cool. i've never seen someone use one. |
| 15:04.58 | maxf | oxek, cool, now the device is available under /run/user/1000/gvfs/ ! |
| 15:05.07 | maxf | thanks for your help |
| 15:05.23 | oxek | maxf: no problem |
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| 15:05.47 | oxek | it's always either the lack of gvfs-fuse or gvfs-backends, since they are not installed by default on many systems |
| 15:05.57 | topoi | Heyho, I try to stream from a webcam to a server (can be local, so the stream gets tunneled through VPN). I already tried motion, but the framerate is quite unsatifying although I enjoy the simplicity of streaming without any fuzz (maybe due to creating JPEG's?). Regarding VLC I cannot find a decent working example that fits the need. Has anybody some hints? |
| 15:08.26 | SymbioticFemale | you mean she told you she was shocked |
| 15:08.29 | SymbioticFemale | wrong window |
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| 15:35.23 | topoi | Or should I better try to stream with RTSP and use some RTSP->HTML5 Player for client access? |
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| 15:45.24 | karlpinc | I missed how to mount mtp (adb) connected devices. If there's a quick summary I'd like to hear it. |
| 15:47.26 | greycat | the few times I've seen it come up, I believe the answer has ended up being that you *can't* mount them as dumb disks, because the android OS gets in the way |
| 15:47.40 | karlpinc | greycat: Sounds likely. Thanks. |
| 15:47.54 | greycat | so you have to use special mtp-ish programs with special GUIs and shit |
| 15:48.27 | karlpinc | greycat: Up above (before I got disconnected) there was talk of a fuse something or another. So I thought maybe there was hope. |
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| 15:49.36 | greycat | Maybe. I dunno. |
| 15:49.56 | karlpinc | I bricked a 2009-ish macbook pro. (And I don't see a model number on the case or I'd google.) I'm wondering if Debian can be installed on it. (Being a mac there's no "normal bios", etc. I know there's keys that can be pressed during the boot sequence but don't know more.) |
| 15:50.29 | sney | debian wiki has some macbook pro pages, if anything an older model is more likely to have published workarounds |
| 15:50.45 | karlpinc | sney: Thanks. I'll take a look. |
| 15:50.50 | sney | though you might end up with fun situations like "haha, no wifi for you" |
| 15:51.44 | karlpinc | sney: Yah. That would be less exciting, and put it in the same catagory as my Asus Aspire 1 that has no wifi. |
| 15:51.45 | crimsonhawk009 | Yeah on a macbook air (2011) I got everything installed just fine just no wifi |
| 15:52.29 | sney | apple likes to use broadcom chips for wifi, and that junk is annoying to get working on regular pc hardware, never mind something that was purpose-built to run OSX only |
| 15:52.54 | sney | aiui it is sometimes possible depending on how much time you want to spend fighting with the various b43 options. |
| 15:52.55 | karlpinc | I think I could get the asus wifi to work if I tried. At first, there was no FOSS driver for it and I had no wifi. Then, messed around with the proprietry driver and got something working. But I think the FOSS driver has evolved and would work. |
| 15:53.30 | sney | yeah, that's usually the progression. |
| 15:53.31 | karlpinc | The propetary driver stopped being supported and no longer works. |
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| 15:58.42 | karlpinc | Does not look like the macbook is going to work, considering it won't even boot OSX. Oh well. |
| 15:59.52 | sney | apple is able to repair those things somehow, I bet there's a formerly-secret firmware recovery mode that's documented on a forum somewhere |
| 16:00.07 | sney | you'll need to spend more than a few minutes looking it up, though. |
| 16:00.53 | diogenes_ | karlpinc, send it to Louis Rossman. |
| 16:02.59 | sney | command-option-o-f was the firmware key combo for the powerpc macs, I wonder if they kept using it. but if it's not that it'll be something. |
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| 16:37.49 | karlpinc | Not worth it. I bricked it trying to run a supported OSX version. |
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| 17:25.14 | PackageCompare | Hi All. I have installed openssl from source on Debian 10, and now my apt install is broken because of broken dependencies that rely on openssl. What are my options to resolve this? |
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| 17:27.04 | oxek | PackageCompare: give an example, or outputs, of what you mean by broken |
| 17:27.43 | PackageCompare | So I originally had openssl installed but it wasnt the version that I needed, so I uninstalled it and installed from source |
| 17:27.46 | PackageCompare | One moment |
| 17:28.13 | PackageCompare | Â ca-certificates : Depends: openssl (>= 1.1.1) but it is not going to be installed |
| 17:28.15 | imMute | PackageCompare: you either need to package your version so it satisfies the dependency, or create a fake package with nothing in it (that also satisfies the dependency). |
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| 17:28.42 | PackageCompare | All dependencies are satisfied, its just that since I didnt install it through apt, that it doesnt notice it |
| 17:28.58 | imMute | PackageCompare: if you didn't install through apt then the dependency isn't satisfied. |
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| 17:29.04 | imMute | PackageCompare: s/apt/dpkg/ |
| 17:29.33 | imMute | apt and dpkg don't know or care about stuff installed by hand, so such things cannot satisfy dependencies. |
| 17:30.25 | sney | !equivs |
| 17:30.25 | dpkg | equivs is a package that enables you to create dummy packages that tell <apt> you really have installed (through some other means) the package. apt install equivs, and read /usr/share/doc/equivs/*, see also <usrlocal>. A better plan is often to adapt the Debian packages to your needs, ask me about <package recompile> <uupdate> <ssb>. |
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| 17:30.51 | greycat | imMute: that's nonsense. Dependencies are managed by dpkg based on what is actually installed, and it doesn't KNOW or CARE that you installed something by hand, or via apt, or via some other tool. |
| 17:31.03 | PackageCompare | I'm using openssl 1.1.1k, highest offering in Debian 10 is openssl 1.1.1d |
| 17:31.35 | greycat | PackageCompare: you compiled it from upstream source using ./configure and so on? No packaging? |
| 17:31.35 | imMute | greycat: I meant "installed" meaning something like "make install", not "dpkg -i mine.deb" |
| 17:32.01 | PackageCompare | @greycat thats correct. I grabbed the source, compiled and installed |
| 17:32.10 | GNU\colossus | that way lies pain |
| 17:32.13 | greycat | then see the "equivas" factoid above |
| 17:32.16 | greycat | equivs |
| 17:32.35 | PackageCompare | What are my other options on getting it installed? |
| 17:32.50 | greycat | ,v libssl1.1 |
| 17:32.51 | judd | Package: libssl1.1 on amd64 -- stretch: 1.1.0l-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 1.1.0l-1~deb9u1; buster: 1.1.1d-0+deb10u5; buster-proposed-updates: 1.1.1d-0+deb10u6; buster-security: 1.1.1d-0+deb10u6; bullseye: 1.1.1k-1; sid: 1.1.1k-1 |
| 17:32.53 | GNU\colossus | why do you even think you need .1k? |
| 17:32.58 | jhutchins | PackageCompare: What new features do you need? |
| 17:33.26 | greycat | ,checkbackport libssl1.1 |
| 17:33.27 | judd | Backporting package libssl1.1 in sidâbuster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 12). |
| 17:33.27 | GNU\colossus | security issues that .1k fixes for upstream releases are fixed in Debian stable's 1.1.1d version as well |
| 17:34.12 | PackageCompare | I have an application using msodbcsql17 and it looks like the version of openssl is causing conflict when trying to connect to our sql server 12. |
| 17:34.20 | PackageCompare | sorry sql server 11 |
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| 17:35.16 | GNU\colossus | can you show/demo what specific problem you are running into? (using a pastebin) |
| 17:36.16 | greycat | To me this is sounding like "I have my Debian libs and my Debian packages, but I also have my weird production stuff, and my locally compiled libssl to support that, and I keep them strictly separated". |
| 17:36.47 | greycat | I would not try to mix the two. |
| 17:37.04 | PackageCompare | So I found the solution here: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1284658/how-to-fix-microsoft-odbc-driver-17-for-sql-server-ssl-provider-ssl-choose-cli |
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| 17:38.11 | PackageCompare | The exact error is: SQLDriverConnect: 10054 [Microsoft][ODBC Driver 17 for SQL Server]TCP Provider: Error code 0x2746 |
| 17:39.05 | GNU\colossus | the SO problems reads to me like the server would like to handshake TLS 1.0, and the client with its default config won't let that happen, due to Debian's relatively strict default policy |
| 17:39.23 | GNU\colossus | that CERTAINLY isn't a reason to install openssl from source into the system, fubar'ing many other things for good |
| 17:39.28 | PackageCompare | But updating to the latest version, theres no issues? |
| 17:39.43 | GNU\colossus | that version probably brings a less trict policy/config with it |
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| 17:40.50 | GNU\colossus | can you run testssl against the server? https://testssl.sh/ - or from Debian packages, praying your OpenSSL is still OK, the packe is named "testssl.sh" |
| 17:42.38 | PackageCompare | what is the specific parameters you are looking for me to run with testssl |
| 17:42.45 | PackageCompare | I installed it on a unmodified environment |
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| 17:44.35 | GNU\colossus | testssl.sh yourmssqlserver:mssqltcpport |
| 17:44.53 | GNU\colossus | (with proper values substituted, of course) |
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| 17:49.29 | PackageCompare | Its running. Is it suppose to take a few minutes? |
| 17:50.03 | GNU\colossus | probably, yes. but iirc it should display some activity while it's running. |
| 17:50.26 | cws | Yes, it should. |
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| 17:51.06 | PackageCompare | Heres the result on an nmap cipher scan: https://pastebin.com/jp2Uw8Qe |
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| 17:51.45 | GNU\colossus | Weak certificate signature: SHA1 - I guess that is the problem. |
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| 17:53.18 | PackageCompare | testssl returned "doesn't seem to be a TLS/SSL enabled server" |
| 17:54.03 | GNU\colossus | maybe you got the URI wrong, but nmap's output should be detailed enough |
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| 17:54.23 | GNU\colossus | can you nopaste your /etc/ssl/openssl.cnf ? |
| 17:55.34 | PackageCompare | nopaste is a site like pastebin? |
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| 17:55.50 | GNU\colossus | yes. use https://paste.debian.net for instance. |
| 17:56.48 | GNU\colossus | just to confirm - you are on Debian 10/buster, right? |
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| 17:57.39 | PackageCompare | Correct. Its the default openssl.cnf. I am about to share it |
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| 17:58.40 | johnfg | hi guys |
| 17:58.43 | PackageCompare | https://paste.debian.net/hidden/03393d0d/ |
| 18:01.09 | GNU\colossus | PackageCompare, looks good. try running this command: sed -i.bak.$(date +%s) -e 's/^CipherString .*/CipherString = DEFAULT@SECLEVEL=1/' /etc/ssl/openssl.cnf |
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| 18:01.26 | GNU\colossus | the retry connecting to the server with your existing method |
| 18:02.42 | GNU\colossus | (the *real* fix should be to ask the SQL Server admin to install a properly SHA-2 signed X.509/TLS certificate for the service) |
| 18:04.15 | PackageCompare | I think that requires an update. I dont manage the windows servers |
| 18:05.28 | PackageCompare | It's still erroring |
| 18:05.41 | johnfg | I'm getting this message after I enabled syncthing for systemd: |
| 18:05.59 | johnfg | Failed to start Syncthing - Open Source Continuous File Synchronization for johnfg. |
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| 18:10.10 | GNU\colossus | PackageCompare, how? same error? |
| 18:10.20 | PackageCompare | Correct |
| 18:10.31 | PackageCompare | I'm asking my other team members about going the certificate route |
| 18:11.12 | GNU\colossus | you did install the ODBC driver package from https://packages.microsoft.com/debian/10/prod/pool/main/m/msodbcsql17/ right? |
| 18:11.23 | PackageCompare | I believe its in apt |
| 18:11.28 | PackageCompare | Let me check my notes |
| 18:12.04 | jhutchins | PackageCompare: +1 for keeping notes. |
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| 18:13.34 | PackageCompare | deb [arch=amd64] https://packages.microsoft.com/debian/10/prod buster main |
| 18:13.59 | PackageCompare | Â msodbcsql17 17.7.2.1-1 |
| 18:14.04 | avernos | How can i create a AP/hotspot and be connected via wifi to internet? i have set the conf files, but wpa loads the conf for the same interface as the AP |
| 18:14.46 | GNU\colossus | PackageCompare, looks good to me. |
| 18:14.50 | avernos | main problem is to separate the conf files of one wifi to another :S |
| 18:16.06 | PackageCompare | In regards to sql server, I dont see any certs installed |
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| 18:19.10 | GNU\colossus | PackageCompare, you mean on the client? probably not necessary. is the server's cert signed by an "offical" CA? |
| 18:19.28 | GNU\colossus | maybe the problem is not the cert's sig algorithm, but the signing )intermediate) CA itself |
| 18:19.39 | GNU\colossus | I could not find authoritative info on the error code it presents you with |
| 18:19.43 | PackageCompare | On the server its self. I dont see a certificate installed in SQL Server Configuration Manager |
| 18:19.50 | GNU\colossus | but I am not very good at navigating MSFT's docs either :) |
| 18:20.12 | GNU\colossus | hmm, are you sure you HAVE to use TLS to connect to it? |
| 18:20.23 | PackageCompare | I don't even think I have to use TLS |
| 18:20.33 | PackageCompare | I am just not sure where to disable it |
| 18:21.08 | GNU\colossus | the connection string will probably offer a way to do/request that |
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| 18:30.49 | GNU\colossus | good night everyone :) |
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| 18:36.17 | johnfg | I did a reboot to make sure about the syncthing@johnfg.service starting or not. It still doesn't. |
| 18:42.55 | PackageCompare | GNU\colossus I guess it works after a reboot |
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| 19:10.54 | jhutchins | https://syncthing.net/ - looks like they have a FAQ, a forum, and documentation. |
| 19:11.03 | RelicRonk | is there by chance anyone around that can assist me with howto install node.js on deb 9 using mvn (mvn is not installed) |
| 19:12.17 | greycat | !stretch |
| 19:12.17 | dpkg | Stretch is the codename for the current <oldstable> release, Debian 9, released 2017-06-17. "Stretch" is the rubber octopus in Toy Story 3, see http://wiki.debian.org/DebianStretch . Ask me about <install stretch>, <release notes>, <jessie->stretch>. |
| 19:12.21 | johnfg | jhutchins: Yes. I'm asking there too. But I wonder if it's a debian problem with their service file, perhaps. |
| 19:12.54 | greycat | if you're seriously considering trying to use bleeding-edge development crap on a 4+ year old Debian version, you may have your work cut out for you |
| 19:13.24 | imMute | johnfg: I didn't read back, but you need to "systemctl enable" a service if you want it started at boot (and the .service needs a proper [Install] section) |
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| 19:14.03 | johnfg | imMute: np for pointing that out, and I did enable it first, with no errors. |
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| 19:14.53 | jhutchins | johnfg: Can you start it manually? |
| 19:15.21 | johnfg | jhutchins: yes. But *not* with systemctl. |
| 19:15.39 | jhutchins | johnfg: How then? |
| 19:16.00 | jhutchins | ,v syncthing |
| 19:16.01 | judd | Package: syncthing on amd64 -- stretch: 0.14.18+dfsg1-2+b1; stretch-backports: 0.14.37+ds1-1~bpo9+1; buster: 1.0.0~ds1-1+b11; bullseye: 1.12.1~ds1-2+b2; sid: 1.12.1~ds1-2+b2 |
| 19:16.26 | johnfg | It starts fine with just '/usr/bin/syncthing', and the daemon is started by syncthing-gtk. |
| 19:17.17 | johnfg | jhutchins: I did have someone in syncthing suggest backports. |
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| 19:19.40 | oxek | the syncthing in buster is really old, not even sure if it can connect to the relay servers anymore |
| 19:19.53 | oxek | or even communicate with the most recent releases at all |
| 19:20.02 | oxek | official backport would help |
| 19:20.35 | oxek | unfortunately even the version is sid is outdated |
| 19:20.43 | johnfg | oxek: It does both of those, and yes it's really old. Currrent version is 1.15 |
| 19:20.55 | johnfg | I'll try backports. |
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| 19:22.29 | johnfg | I just did 'sudo apt-get -t buster-backports install syncthing' and it returned: syncthing is already the newest version (1.0.0~ds1-1+b11). |
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| 19:24.58 | oxek | johnfg: syncthing is not in official buster-backports |
| 19:25.05 | oxek | you'd need to backport it yourself |
| 19:25.14 | oxek | but you'd still get an old version (1.12.1) |
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| 19:26.12 | oxek | a possiblity would be to contact the maintainer of syncthing in debian, and ask them to update syncthing and backport it, but it's too late now because bullseye is in freeze |
| 19:26.40 | oxek | hence bullseye will be released with an old version of syncthing (1.12.1) and you'll need to wait for bullseye-backports |
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| 19:27.32 | johnfg | oxek: Would you like to take a look at the syncthing@johnfg.service file? |
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| 19:27.40 | johnfg | or jhutchins? |
| 19:27.54 | maroloccio | Hi. I need to find mp3 files from users on a system. There is no mlocate. What should I be using? A CLI for tracker? |
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| 19:28.37 | oxek | maroloccio: `find` |
| 19:28.57 | imMute | maroloccio: I'd probably do find /home/someuser -type f -iname '*.mp3' |
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| 19:29.20 | oxek | imMute: -iname before -type, so that it doesn't stat every file |
| 19:29.27 | maroloccio | oxek: what if I did not want to walk the whole filesystem and leverage some pre-existing index? updatedb from locate would give me that. does tracker give me that or what else? |
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| 19:29.57 | greycat | it doesn't matter whether you put -iname before -type or after |
| 19:30.07 | oxek | greycat: is that the case now? |
| 19:30.22 | oxek | I remember `find` being pretty dumb about it |
| 19:30.23 | greycat | oh, I see, you just mean for optimization purposes, not for results |
| 19:30.30 | oxek | yeah, optimization |
| 19:31.17 | greycat | I think it has to stat everything anyway, so it knows which things are subdirectories it needs to recurse into. |
| 19:31.40 | maroloccio | ^ right |
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| 19:32.05 | oxek | greycat: it would only stat things that match the -iname though, no? |
| 19:32.16 | oxek | oh wait, I see |
| 19:33.27 | oxek | I don't know then. I remember something about puttying -type after other conditions for optimization reasons |
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| 19:34.34 | maroloccio | oxek: if you -exec and the -exec would only work for -type f for example |
| 19:35.14 | jhutchins | I had to look up putty - been so long since I ran windows. |
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| 19:35.26 | oxek | sorry, I mistyped, putting |
| 19:35.26 | greycat | I suppose it's possible some finds might stat twice. Who knows. |
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| 19:35.57 | oxek | (at least I didn't type pudding, which is definitely on my mind) |
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| 19:36.41 | maroloccio | 2nd stat would be coming off of filesystem cache though.. slow but not super slow |
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| 19:38.57 | oxek | something to do about default -O1 vs -O2 |
| 19:41.11 | johnfg | https://paste.debian.net/1193760/ here's the syncthing@johnfg.service. |
| 19:42.42 | jmcnaught | johnfg: have you looked at "journalctl -u syncthing@johnfg.service" ? |
| 19:44.39 | maroloccio | I just discovered that this is freaking instantaneous: tracker search --music |
| 19:44.43 | alexrelis[m] | Is it possible to clone a drive with `dd` if the source drive is larger than the destination drive, but the partition of the source drive is shrunk to fit the size of the destination? |
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| 19:45.24 | maroloccio | alexrelis[m]: yes |
| 19:45.43 | cws | alexrelis[m]: Clone the partition to the destination partition and resize. |
| 19:45.45 | oxek | alexrelis[m]: you wouldn't use the whole drive as input though |
| 19:46.26 | alexrelis[m] | oxek: What if I wanted to preserve the UUID information of the original drive? |
| 19:46.42 | oxek | alexrelis[m]: you can change the UUID afterwards |
| 19:47.10 | alexrelis[m] | Oh so like this `sudo dd if=/dev/sdb1 of=/dev/sdc1 bs=4M conv=noerror status=progress`? |
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| 19:48.25 | oxek | something like that, after having partitioned the new drive appropriately |
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| 19:51.39 | tanja84dk | Just curious because I havent faced this before what could the reason be that a server is holding 53 back in a dist upgrade and what advise would be best to forward? |
| 19:51.56 | sney | !idfma |
| 19:51.56 | dpkg | Insufficient Data For Meaningful Answer |
| 19:52.17 | maroloccio | tanja84dk: tell us more please |
| 19:52.20 | johnfg | http://paste.debian.net/1193763/ I had, but here it is for your viewing pleasure. |
| 19:52.27 | tanja84dk | * ment 53 packages are helt back including apt and other important packages |
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| 19:52.47 | johnfg | sney: New acronyms all the time. |
| 19:53.09 | johnfg | jmcnaught: That was for you. |
| 19:53.41 | tanja84dk | its a old debian 8 server that I'm in the middle of trying to upgrade to debian 9 and then afterwards to 10 ( to not jusp to much as once ) |
| 19:54.07 | sney | tanja84dk: apt is a powerful tool that manages a lot of overlapping package dependencies, so there are a lot of different reasons that could happen, depending on the packages, environment, 3rd party repos, and many other factors. it is impossible to say for sure without knowing details. |
| 19:54.15 | oxek | !bat |
| 19:54.15 | dpkg | [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use https://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>. |
| 19:54.37 | oxek | also sources.list, and so on. |
| 19:54.43 | maroloccio | I want to schedule a clean-up action on a server from which I deleted user MP3 files. There is no `at'. What should I use instead? I could double fork and reparent a shell command group starting with sleep but is there something else at my disposal on Deb10? It's one off, so I don't think systemd timer units should be the go-to.. |
| 19:54.45 | oxek | maybe you used `apt-mark hold` too |
| 19:55.11 | sney | maroloccio: if you want to use at, 'apt install at' |
| 19:55.31 | maroloccio | I was told not to install software and I agreed not to install software |
| 19:55.33 | tanja84dk | my bad I did not know of the pastebin site. Going to post it right away |
| 19:55.38 | oxek | maroloccio: `sleep 100000; do-the-thing.sh` |
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| 19:56.24 | maroloccio | oxek: I think the diff there is that at would survive a reboot if it happened in-between and sleep n; cmd1 would not, right? |
| 19:56.38 | oxek | it wouldn't survive reboot, true |
| 19:56.51 | tanja84dk | This is the output from apt upgrade https://paste.debian.net/hidden/31ab1f65/ |
| 19:56.52 | oxek | but neither might accurate timekeeping |
| 19:57.09 | imMute | maroloccio: systemd-run with --on-calendar |
| 19:57.27 | maroloccio | imMute: aha! let me look into this.. (thanks!) |
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| 19:58.10 | tanja84dk | and I do know of the packages it could autoremove but that is always my last step as soon I know everything works |
| 19:58.15 | oxek | tanja84dk: I strongly suspect you have bad sources.list |
| 19:58.21 | oxek | !stretch sources.list |
| 19:58.22 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Stretch" has three lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main" "deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main". Be sure to run «apt update» after editing sources.list. Also see <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <stretch/updates> <stretch-updates> <mirrors> and "man sources.list". |
| 19:59.08 | jmcnaught | johnfg: "FATAL: Error opening database: resource temporarily unavailable (is another instance of Syncthing running?)" |
| 19:59.33 | tanja84dk | everything went fine with the source list that did not give any issues in the upgrade |
| 19:59.57 | oxek | tanja84dk: in that case, have you run `apt full-upgrade`? |
| 20:00.25 | sney | you could also pick one of the stuck packages, e.g. "apt install apt" and see what happens |
| 20:00.31 | tanja84dk | thanks I'll try but 2 sec going to post it just in case |
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| 20:01.40 | johnfg | Through lfam in #syncthing, have got syncthing@johnfg.service running. |
| 20:02.12 | tanja84dk | this is my apt sourse list ( server is hosted at linode ) https://paste.debian.net/hidden/c5de3edb/ and their repo has never given me any issues and apt did also not give any errors |
| 20:02.13 | johnfg | So, do you folks agree that there's no point in asking for syncthing being upgraded? |
| 20:03.01 | sney | tanja84dk: disable the dotdeb and nginx repos, apt update, and then try apt full-upgrade again |
| 20:04.07 | oxek | tanja84dk: you're clearly not following the stretch release notes. You're supposed to disable the unofficial repos. |
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| 20:04.34 | tanja84dk | and no I have not tried apt full-upgrade because I were following the guide didnt mention that, so i have only apt dist-upgraded and normal upgraded after I changed to stretch repo. And thanks alot going to try |
| 20:04.49 | sney | dist-upgrade and full-upgrade are the same thing |
| 20:05.13 | oxek | `apt-get dist-upgrade` is same as `apt full-upgrade` (and `apt dist-upgrade` works too) |
| 20:05.44 | oxek | johnfg: you can try |
| 20:05.59 | oxek | might at least show the maintainer that someone cares about the package that they maintain |
| 20:05.59 | tanja84dk | I did the apt-get dist-upgrade and that was where it marked them as held back |
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| 20:06.14 | johnfg | oxek: How does one find the maintainer? At packages.debian.org? |
| 20:06.19 | tanja84dk | and then continued to hold them back afterwards |
| 20:06.33 | sney | tanja84dk: the difference this time is that you will disable those 2 third-party repos before trying again. |
| 20:06.34 | oxek | johnfg: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/syncthing |
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| 20:08.25 | tanja84dk | sney, yeah I'm also in the middle of trying with them removed and so far so good |
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| 20:09.15 | greycat | I keep the google-chrome repo in place when upgrading, and it doesn't cause problems, but that's a special case. Other third-party repos tend to be more intrusive. |
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| 20:10.10 | sney | yeah, a repo that you know for sure only has 1 or 2 packages is rarely an issue. but it's still ideal to disable anything not-debian during the upgrade, and then re-enable it if needed once done. |
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| 20:11.47 | johnfg | oxek: With that page showing for action needed, the latest version, do you think that's sufficient? |
| 20:12.05 | tanja84dk | :/ hmm great that really destroyed alot :( it messed up the keyring and posible more. Guess there only is one option now delete the server |
| 20:12.57 | tanja84dk | because that full-upgrade has ended in every keys are reporting "http://security.debian.org/dists/stretch/updates/InRelease: The key(s) in the keyring /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/debian-archive-buster-automatic.gpg are ignored as the file is not readable by user '_apt' executing apt-key" |
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| 20:14.21 | tanja84dk | guess its time to get the backup ready to reload the server with debian 8 |
| 20:15.12 | alexrelis[m] | I am trying to take a Debian install from one laptop and move it to another laptop by taking out the NVME drive from the old laptop and putting it in the new laptop. I also happened to have /boot mounted on a USB flash drive. When I did this drive swap, the new system won't boot Grub from USB. The new system doesn't even detect anything. Both systems have UEFI. What could be the problem? |
| 20:15.15 | oxek | johnfg: I can't speak for the maintainer. |
| 20:15.21 | tanja84dk | bu thanks alot for the help |
| 20:15.27 | tanja84dk | *but |
| 20:15.33 | oxek | sometimes packages only get upgraded when maintainers are prompted by users |
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| 20:16.25 | oxek | tanja84dk: that doesn't look like a big problem |
| 20:16.55 | oxek | the security repo no longer updates the signature for stretch |
| 20:17.45 | tanja84dk | oxek, its just when it has messed that up and the system held so many packages back then it could be all the packages there are having issues and flawn in their config |
| 20:18.13 | oxek | not really |
| 20:18.26 | tanja84dk | that was just a copy from one og them every repo reports that, so its the keyring it has fucked up |
| 20:18.47 | oxek | the proper order of things is: 1) Read release notes 2) Change sources.list 3) `apt update` 4) `apt upgrade` 5) `apt dist-upgrade` |
| 20:19.28 | oxek | tanja84dk: also, try to use the proper archive repo, not the one from linode |
| 20:19.30 | johnfg | oxek: Email sent. Thanks for the help today! |
| 20:19.41 | tanja84dk | But I am downloading the latest backup from the off site place right now from the server to roll back on it even thats eol |
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| 20:20.44 | tanja84dk | well their repo has nevewr failed and they set it up automaticly its just the same as if I chose thwe one in sweeden from the installer |
| 20:20.58 | oxek | deb.debian.org never failed me |
| 20:21.42 | maroloccio | Maybe they save bandwidth with their own repo? Outgoing connections |
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| 20:22.37 | oxek | tanja84dk: anyway, after reboot, you should be good to go to upgrade to buster |
| 20:22.47 | tanja84dk | they do plus local connection for the costumers so better speeds and not having to pay for the bandwich or counting to our limit |
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| 20:23.39 | tanja84dk | but yeah again thanks alot even that the result now is reloading debian 8 |
| 20:23.47 | tanja84dk | from backup |
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| 20:30.41 | tanja84dk | oxek, tbh the server is in the middle of getting rolled back to debian 8 right now and going to stay there |
| 20:30.58 | tanja84dk | at least for the next year |
| 20:31.06 | oxek | tanja84dk: wouldn't advise staying on debian 8, it has no more security support |
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| 20:31.23 | oxek | and upgrades are trivially easy |
| 20:31.40 | tanja84dk | well the upgrades does also break everything so one bad thing or the other |
| 20:32.00 | oxek | tanja84dk: but it doesn't break it - the "error" you received can be safely ignored |
| 20:32.07 | oxek | and you can continue to debian 10 from there |
| 20:32.10 | tanja84dk | and all that reconfigurating and fix things from upgrades would take months |
| 20:32.46 | oxek | well, in months there will be debian 11, so you'll have even more things to work on, and even fewer people that remember upgrades from 8->9 |
| 20:33.38 | tanja84dk | it did break things checked in htop and there were several things there didnt start after the dist upgrade |
| 20:33.57 | sney | some vps images are known to not upgrade cleanly, so in many cases it's wise to spin up a new image and migrate your sites and services, rather than trying to upgrade in place. |
| 20:34.08 | tanja84dk | actually no because next will be a rolling realease linux on all servers |
| 20:34.15 | sney | this also mitigates any issues found by upgrading mysql to mariadb, or php5 to php7, etc |
| 20:34.28 | sney | rolling release on a server? haha well if you like excitement |
| 20:35.18 | tanja84dk | well at least there arent those big issues. Like its the third time I have had issues upgrading a debian server |
| 20:35.54 | tanja84dk | back when lenny welt eol it also failed from debian 5 to 6 where it took the email server down |
| 20:36.03 | sney | you will just have to learn from experience why this is a bad idea, I suppose. |
| 20:36.13 | tanja84dk | dovecot couldnt handle that upgrade |
| 20:37.28 | jmcnaught | Moving from Debian stable to a rolling release would be like going from dealing with upgrade issues every couple of years, to dealing with them all the time. |
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| 20:39.25 | oxek | create problems -> get paid to fix problems |
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| 20:40.53 | tanja84dk | I deffently dont believe that because on debian its almost every upgrade you almost have to reinstall |
| 20:41.21 | karlpinc | Only if you don't know how to manage your debian. |
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| 20:41.38 | greycat | Debian is designed to do in-place upgrades. Most Debian users never reinstall. Ever. |
| 20:42.02 | oxek | tanja84dk: you really don't |
| 20:42.12 | karlpinc | As in, doing things like installing 3rd party packages and other software not in the debian repos, and installing such things the wrong way. |
| 20:42.13 | tanja84dk | not even ubuntu server have had so many issues upgrading, but unfortunally the overhead on ubuntu is the reason I wont use them in the cloud |
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| 20:42.37 | somiaj | tanja84dk: you are an outlier, most (provided they follow the release notes) don't have to much trouble with upgrades, and find them smooth. |
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| 20:43.03 | karlpinc | tanja84dk: Arch sounds like what you want. Rolling release, can be made very very minimal. |
| 20:44.31 | wintersky | no one consciously wants arch |
| 20:44.47 | tanja84dk | karlpinc, nope never arch on a server that is suicide way to bleading egde. My plan is testing with opensuse in the summer holidays and if it goes well over the summer rolling it out in the fall |
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| 20:45.43 | karlpinc | wintersky: I considered it for an imbedded system. |
| 20:46.03 | wintersky | arch - taday everything seems working |
| 20:46.16 | wintersky | to be working*& |
| 20:46.20 | ens | hello. i am on an ancient system that i am trying to get some package manager working. It's debian sarge. When i try to apt-get update it gives 404s trying to find the package list. Currently the source is: "http://ftp.debian.org sarge/main Packages" |
| 20:46.33 | greycat | !sarge sources.list |
| 20:46.33 | dpkg | methinks sarge sources.list is "deb http://archive.debian.org/debian sarge main contrib non-free" and "deb http://archive.debian.org/debian-security sarge/updates main contrib non-free" |
| 20:46.49 | wintersky | karlpinc: have you ever heard of debootstrap? |
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| 20:47.00 | karlpinc | wintersky: Sure.... |
| 20:47.03 | ens | thanks greycat i'll give that a shot. |
| 20:47.04 | wintersky | it allows you bootstrapping a very minimal debian system |
| 20:47.14 | wintersky | i guess this is what you are looking for |
| 20:47.31 | greycat | after a few years, all the releases get moved to archive.debian.org |
| 20:48.36 | karlpinc | ens: Don't try a major release upgrade without upgrading one at a time to successive releases. (And at this point it may make sense to start with a clean install anyway.) |
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| 21:00.20 | dmt | archive.debian.net always in memories |
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| 21:03.08 | ens | yeah, i just want to grab a compiler and maybe a few other basic utils like a text editor. upgrading the release on such an ancient box sounds like a daunting challenge indeed. |
| 21:03.45 | wintersky | you might rather want doing a clean install |
| 21:04.17 | wintersky | will save you time and effort |
| 21:04.20 | ens | unfortunately that isn't an option as i'm not the one responsible for provisioning this system. |
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| 21:04.42 | wintersky | ok then do release-after-release upgrades |
| 21:04.59 | wintersky | you'll dump a day on it |
| 21:07.11 | ens | i'm considering it, since it's only got about 35k/s internet link. so maybe doing release upgrades first would save me the pain of having to also upgrade all the pkgs i install beforehand. |
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| 21:08.31 | jhutchins | ens: Do you have stuff that wasn't installed from Debian, but compiled locally or by third parties? |
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| 21:10.06 | ens | to my knowledge it doesn't have anything like that. it's just a really cut-down debian system that serves primarily as a developer tool i am given to access files on a dev server locally and do some basic admin tasks. |
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| 21:10.48 | tanja84dk | oxek, btw gave it a chance rebooting because waiting on the backup to get ready dowwnloadfing ( misspoke prior ). and I did see now even also interfaces are f**ked up some how like after the reboot some there should be there arent and some weird are there instead |
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| 21:11.27 | oxek | tanja84dk: that's all covered in the release notes |
| 21:11.34 | horribleprogram | fastest Desktop enviornments? |
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| 21:11.53 | oxek | horribleprogram: fastest desktop environment is no desktop environment |
| 21:11.56 | wintersky | you should ask about the lightest |
| 21:12.03 | horribleprogram | oxek: ... |
| 21:12.05 | horribleprogram | thanks bro |
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| 21:12.22 | oxek | horribleprogram: so something like i3 then |
| 21:12.26 | horribleprogram | reminds me of that Office episode lol |
| 21:12.31 | horribleprogram | "What's the safest way to ski" don't ski |
| 21:12.34 | tanja84dk | its not that its renamed it information is missing ips removed etc |
| 21:12.40 | horribleprogram | oxek: what about exwm |
| 21:12.48 | horribleprogram | i3 is not my thing I've trieed it |
| 21:12.49 | tanja84dk | like really really messed up |
| 21:12.50 | wintersky | i'm a gnome 3 enthusiast but that's really ram heavy |
| 21:13.01 | horribleprogram | wintersky: it's too slow for me |
| 21:13.02 | wintersky | as for speed - its super fast |
| 21:13.07 | horribleprogram | no it's not |
| 21:13.11 | wintersky | of course it is |
| 21:13.14 | horribleprogram | I'm running GNOME 3 rn |
| 21:13.19 | horribleprogram | gdm right? |
| 21:13.19 | oxek | !start a DE war |
| 21:13.21 | dpkg | GNOME makes me vomit! |
| 21:13.21 | wintersky | everything happens instantionously |
| 21:13.37 | horribleprogram | â gdm.service - GNOME Display Manager |
| 21:13.38 | wintersky | but don't try it without at least 8G of ram and an ssd |
| 21:14.14 | wintersky | it is the reason i'm probably gonna be expanding ram on this machine |
| 21:14.19 | tanja84dk | like just as example one is showing like "tunl0@NONE <NOARP>" with ip info zeroed and in total there is 9 of those now |
| 21:14.45 | tanja84dk | all with different names there makes no sense and no ip or anything |
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| 21:15.08 | cws | If a DE requires 8GB RAM and an SSD, then it's not fast, you just have enough hardware to make slow seem less slow. |
| 21:15.18 | horribleprogram | cws: LOL EXACTLY |
| 21:15.24 | horribleprogram | point is, how do I run exwm |
| 21:15.25 | wintersky | it's super fast and convinient |
| 21:15.34 | wintersky | best gui i ever had in my hands |
| 21:15.36 | horribleprogram | there's obviously some DE over it |
| 21:16.06 | wintersky | there is anything as well designed as gnome, only kde can compete but that's completly different school of user interface |
| 21:16.31 | wintersky | but 8G and an ssd or you gonna be unhappy |
| 21:16.36 | horribleprogram | dude |
| 21:16.52 | horribleprogram | GNOME is too bloated |
| 21:16.53 | wintersky | believe me i know what i'm saying |
| 21:16.57 | horribleprogram | I believe u |
| 21:17.02 | jmcnaught | ,i gnome-shell-extension-impatience |
| 21:17.03 | judd | Package gnome-shell-extension-impatience (gnome, optional) in buster/amd64: speed up the gnome-shell animation speed. Version: 0.4.5-3; Size: 4.2k; Installed: 22k; Homepage: https://github.com/timbertson/gnome-shell-impatience |
| 21:17.09 | horribleprogram | I have a goddamn shitty ass Thinkpad |
| 21:17.09 | wintersky | i tried almost everything over last 26 years |
| 21:17.14 | cws | wintersky: "I know what I'm saying" says everyone on the internet. |
| 21:17.15 | wintersky | gnome seals the deal |
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| 21:17.32 | wintersky | yeah but guess what, not efveryone is a damned liar |
| 21:17.39 | nwe | good evening, stupid question maybe.. but does debian buster contain gnome 4 ? |
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| 21:17.57 | horribleprogram | nwe: no such thing |
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| 21:18.13 | alex11 | yeah the latest upstream is like 3.40 or something |
| 21:18.20 | jmcnaught | nwe: Debian 10/buster has GNOME 3.30, Debian 11/bullseye will have 3.38 |
| 21:18.36 | jhutchins | nwe: You might check in #debian-next on the oftc network. |
| 21:19.40 | horribleprogram | why is everyone so obsessed with this bspwm |
| 21:19.52 | cws | wintersky: perhaps not, but coming off like a zealot (which you are) does not inspire trust. |
| 21:19.59 | nwe | jhutchins: is that channel for discussions what will come into next release or ? |
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| 21:20.28 | horribleprogram | fine.. I'll join #emacs for a discussion on window managers |
| 21:20.32 | sney | nwe: it's the support channel for testing/sid users. |
| 21:20.32 | wintersky | general distrust is a problem |
| 21:20.48 | jhutchins | It's support for testing and unstable, and people there are more likely to be familiar with them. |
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| 21:21.34 | nwe | jhutchins: okey I will join that network and channel |
| 21:21.58 | jhutchins | nwe: I think you got good answers here in any case. |
| 21:22.30 | sney | gtk-4 is available in experimental, but no gnome stuff newer than 3.38 will be uploaded to debian until after bullseye releases. |
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| 21:23.30 | sney | if gnome 4 is coming, it could possibly be included in bookworm, ~3 years from now, depending on how ready it is for production at that point. |
| 21:23.49 | horribleprogram | why is literally all the documentation of X11 400 years old |
| 21:24.24 | wintersky | few more years and wayland will be complete |
| 21:24.45 | Thete | I thought wayland was supposed to be working with nvidia here soon |
| 21:24.46 | wintersky | it's already usefull |
| 21:25.03 | nwe | sney: okey thanks for the answer :) |
| 21:25.32 | sney | np |
| 21:26.29 | Thete | has anyone got gnome40 installed on debian? |
| 21:27.33 | wintersky | i don't think 40 made it even to sid yet |
| 21:28.35 | Thete | ahh |
| 21:29.00 | nwe | I just found this page: https://people.debian.org/~fpeters/gnome/debian-gnome-40-status.html :) |
| 21:29.14 | wintersky | remember testing is about to get frozen so there will be delays in sid |
| 21:29.51 | Thete | how long does that typically freeze for? |
| 21:29.59 | wintersky | untill the release |
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| 21:30.16 | wintersky | which is expected to happen at the end of 2021 |
| 21:30.39 | oxek | end? |
| 21:30.48 | wintersky | that's what ive been told |
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| 21:31.04 | oxek | !bullseye pool 1 |
| 21:31.04 | dpkg | ! antto=2021-07-07 räträcé=2021-06-13 jëlly=2021-06-06 themÃll=2021-09-01 |
| 21:31.30 | wintersky | yeah, well at least the second half of it |
| 21:34.22 | somiaj | Thete: the longest freeze was about a bit over a year, since then the release team has added some additional policy to help deal with long standing rc-bugs and the last few feezes have been about 6 months |
| 21:35.33 | Thete | ahh, that's cool |
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| 21:45.31 | karlpinc | !guess the release date |
| 21:45.31 | dpkg | Guess the release date is a game you can play! Look at http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ and guess when the green line will reach 0. |
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| 21:45.47 | dvs | !wwbr |
| 21:45.47 | dpkg | Now Debian "Bullseye" is the current testing branch as of 2019-07-06 and it will be released "when it's ready." |
| 21:45.55 | dvs | damn! |
| 21:46.18 | phogg | !siyh |
| 21:46.18 | dpkg | [siyh] Sooner If You Help. How? http://qa.debian.org/ , http://wiki.debian.org/BSP |
| 21:47.54 | oxek | will the green line actually reach 0? Buster wasn't released with 0 known release-critical bugs, was it? |
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| 21:48.13 | phogg | unlikely and no |
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| 21:48.48 | somiaj | kinda, sometimes the fix to an rc-bug is remove the package, some rc-bugs are 'ignored' if they are deemed blocking the release, and there is no easy fix or there are ways to midagate them |
| 21:48.57 | phogg | is not a source of official information, treat his comments as rumor |
| 21:49.19 | somiaj | in general, yes the rc-bug count reahces zero at the release, but after the release many new ones are found (some that only affect the new testing) |
| 21:49.27 | phogg | or sometimes they're reclassified so as to pretend they're not a problem, if they are indeed not really that critical after all |
| 21:49.44 | somiaj | more they are deemed not critical enough to block the release |
| 21:50.02 | phogg | indeed, technically rc critical but not "hold the whole release" critical |
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| 21:50.43 | jhutchins | Like "Intel graphics don't work" - that blocked a release for a while. |
| 21:51.15 | ski | doesn't ski |
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| 21:52.11 | somiaj | so though in theory rc-bugs should be zero at the time of the release, as the number of packages increases, things get more complicated and interconnected, they are sometimes dealt with in other ways, mostly to keep the freeze from not taking over a year. |
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| 22:03.13 | wintersky | getting back to the de/wm topic: this is my desktop i'm kinda proud of https://ibb.co/JBj6ZfJ |
| 22:05.09 | oxek | wintersky: why is everything so big? |
| 22:05.18 | wintersky | what is big? |
| 22:05.48 | wintersky | windows are small because it's the expose/manage mode |
| 22:06.06 | wintersky | it's the part when you run new apps and select already running |
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| 22:06.18 | oxek | everything. Icons take up so much space, title bars, menu bars, etc. Did you increase the DPI or is the resolution low? Or is it just gnome? |
| 22:06.21 | wintersky | whn you click on any of them it gets focused |
| 22:06.32 | wintersky | no, man, it's just the expose mode |
| 22:06.38 | oxek | I know the expose mode |
| 22:06.58 | wintersky | https://ibb.co/wyPK0Xk |
| 22:07.06 | wintersky | this is how it looks like with a window focused |
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| 22:10.01 | oxek | somehow still looks odd to me, but I respect that people have different eyes and thus different preferences |
| 22:10.08 | oxek | is it a netbook? |
| 22:10.27 | oxek | (small laptop) |
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| 22:16.50 | wintersky | i made a blog post out of it: https://vlepy.github.io/2021/04/15/dg.html |
| 22:22.44 | wintersky | oxek: it's a thinkpad x250 |
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| 23:30.44 | bone-baboon | Is there a Linux kernel argument that sets the contents of /sys/class/graphics/fbcon/cursor_blink to "0"? |
| 23:31.33 | sney | probably, /sys stuff tends to be exposed as both |
| 23:31.43 | maroloccio | HI. I have 3 servers and 20 systemd timer units that sometimes overlap in time, sometimes not (if a tuesday is also the 2nd of the month.. they do). is there a way to distribute recurring scheduled tasks over multiple systemd servers from a central definition, so that if one of the 3 servers is free and the timer is due it can pick up the job and the others don't |
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| 23:35.08 | maroloccio | Basically if timers were due centrally and distributed to any systemd server available to pick up a job, I would never risk running two heavy jobs on the same server as running one would leave room for others to pick up the second and "help out" |
| 23:38.27 | bone-baboon | sney: could you point me to some resources that I could look at for this? |
| 23:38.58 | sney | bone-baboon: start at https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v4.14/admin-guide/kernel-parameters.html |
| 23:39.13 | sney | there are also sometimes hints within the source itself. |
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| 23:42.43 | bone-baboon | sney: thanks when I use the search that documentation site provides and search for curor_blink there are no results. |
| 23:44.05 | sney | bone-baboon: you might have to be a little more fuzzy with your search, since things are not always named just 1 way. But in any case, those are the pointers I have for you, and I have no more follow-up information, so if you have more questions you will have to keep reading. |
| 23:45.25 | bone-baboon | sney: thanks |
| 23:45.30 | sney | np |
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