| 00:02.26 | *** join/#debian jess (jess@freenode/staff/jess) |
| 00:04.51 | *** join/#debian tnewman (~tnewman@1-171-215-188.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) |
| 00:08.12 | *** join/#debian haijuno (~haijuno@2600:1700:3db0:2540:ef97:e59e:b257:3f5a) |
| 00:13.58 | *** join/#debian section1 (~section1@181.23.205.145) |
| 00:18.45 | *** join/#debian mthe878 (~mthe@unaffiliated/mthe) |
| 00:26.46 | *** join/#debian teksimian (~teksimian@198-91-188-120.cpe.distributel.net) |
| 00:28.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1035] by debhelper |
| 00:41.15 | *** part/#debian polardroid (~polardroi@45.91.23.12) |
| 00:43.18 | *** join/#debian SomethingGeneric (~Generic@2601:142:2:6940::ae8f) |
| 00:48.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1026] by debhelper |
| 00:48.06 | *** join/#debian _aeris_ (~aeris@april/board/aeris) |
| 00:48.55 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f2ce600821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 00:52.27 | *** join/#debian tnewman (~tnewman@1-171-215-188.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) |
| 00:58.44 | *** join/#debian SomethingGeneric (~Generic@2601:142:2:6940::ae8f) |
| 00:59.30 | *** join/#debian digitalD (~dp@c-107-2-197-75.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 01:02.10 | *** join/#debian wallacer (~quassel@2001:bc8:1824:9a:cafe:babe:b00b:aa06) |
| 01:05.35 | *** join/#debian sidmo_ (~ident@p5b3d8228.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 01:06.22 | *** join/#debian teksimian (~teksimian@198-91-188-120.cpe.distributel.net) |
| 01:09.53 | *** join/#debian zoitub (~quassel@2603-800c-0501-c362-315b-855c-f06c-0d05.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 01:13.23 | *** join/#debian jpe_ (~jp@i59F44C6A.versanet.de) |
| 01:17.48 | *** join/#debian tsal_ (~tsal@i59F4A7FD.versanet.de) |
| 01:18.35 | *** join/#debian tnewman (~tnewman@1-171-215-188.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) |
| 01:20.41 | *** join/#debian tnewman (~tnewman@1-171-215-188.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) |
| 01:22.53 | *** join/#debian sekator (sekator@unaffiliated/sekator) |
| 01:32.05 | *** join/#debian BrianG61UK__ (~BrianG61U@2a02:8010:66b7:dddd:654d:f0f7:fd00:772f) |
| 01:32.21 | *** join/#debian lazywalker (~lazywalke@unaffiliated/lazywalker) |
| 01:33.30 | *** join/#debian fmaurer (~quassel@188.126.185.64) |
| 01:33.59 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f2ce600821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 01:34.43 | *** join/#debian nicopok (~nicopok@gateway/tor-sasl/nicopok) |
| 01:34.56 | *** join/#debian lazywalker (~lazywalke@unaffiliated/lazywalker) |
| 01:40.08 | *** join/#debian sparky4 (~sparky4@hutcheson-054.resnet.latech.edu) |
| 01:42.14 | *** join/#debian digitalD (~dp@c-107-2-197-75.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 01:42.28 | *** join/#debian Grldfrdom (uid391113@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wlbldjtaaoolbixb) |
| 01:43.46 | *** join/#debian catman370 (~catman@unaffiliated/catman370) |
| 01:50.06 | *** join/#debian teksimian (~teksimian@198-91-188-41.cpe.distributel.net) |
| 01:53.21 | *** join/#debian shiki (~sevu@dynamic-077-013-210-119.77.13.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 01:56.15 | *** join/#debian citypw (~citypw@gateway/tor-sasl/citypw) |
| 01:58.02 | *** join/#debian catman370 (~catman@unaffiliated/catman370) |
| 02:04.13 | *** join/#debian catman370 (~catman@unaffiliated/catman370) |
| 02:09.20 | *** join/#debian catman370 (~catman@unaffiliated/catman370) |
| 02:10.48 | *** join/#debian catman370 (~catman@unaffiliated/catman370) |
| 02:11.09 | *** join/#debian queip (~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus) |
| 02:11.38 | *** join/#debian NyanCat (~NyanCat@unaffiliated/nyancat) |
| 02:12.12 | *** join/#debian NyanCat (~NyanCat@unaffiliated/nyancat) |
| 02:12.46 | *** join/#debian NyanCat (~NyanCat@unaffiliated/nyancat) |
| 02:12.51 | *** join/#debian cef (~cef@unaffiliated/cef) |
| 02:13.20 | *** join/#debian NyanCat (~NyanCat@unaffiliated/nyancat) |
| 02:13.28 | *** join/#debian catman370 (~catman@unaffiliated/catman370) |
| 02:13.54 | *** join/#debian NyanCat (~NyanCat@unaffiliated/nyancat) |
| 02:14.10 | *** join/#debian fission6 (~textual@cpe-74-73-51-238.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 02:15.27 | *** join/#debian catman370 (~catman@unaffiliated/catman370) |
| 02:19.58 | *** join/#debian Ceber (~cerberus@p508c2b39.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:19.59 | *** join/#debian Elodin (~weechat@unaffiliated/padawan) |
| 02:22.36 | *** join/#debian darunesh (~darunesh@122.170.110.31) |
| 02:24.24 | *** join/#debian catman370 (~catman@unaffiliated/catman370) |
| 02:26.05 | *** join/#debian Merixer (~Merixer@185.176.247.88) |
| 02:26.29 | *** join/#debian catman370 (~catman@unaffiliated/catman370) |
| 02:28.24 | *** join/#debian Elodin (~weechat@unaffiliated/padawan) |
| 02:29.09 | *** join/#debian BrianG61UK_ (~BrianG61U@2a02:8010:66b7:dddd:9d98:e1a3:b8ad:53c7) |
| 02:29.46 | *** join/#debian tnewman (~tnewman@1-171-215-188.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) |
| 02:30.39 | *** join/#debian catman370 (~catman@unaffiliated/catman370) |
| 02:34.18 | *** join/#debian tnewman (~tnewman@1-171-215-188.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) |
| 02:34.29 | *** join/#debian secntech (~secntech@unaffiliated/secntech) |
| 02:34.30 | *** join/#debian catman370 (~catman@unaffiliated/catman370) |
| 02:36.57 | *** join/#debian tnewman (~tnewman@1-171-215-188.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) |
| 02:49.44 | *** join/#debian fission6 (~textual@cpe-74-73-51-238.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 02:53.32 | *** join/#debian Main_ (~secntech@unaffiliated/secntech) |
| 02:56.11 | *** join/#debian Main_ (~secntech@unaffiliated/secntech) |
| 02:56.20 | *** join/#debian Heston (~name@d173-183-187-148.abhsia.telus.net) |
| 02:56.51 | Heston | Is there any reason why a debian stretch installation would ever check the cdrom drive without any interaction from myself? Is it safe to assume ive been rooted? |
| 02:58.14 | cws | Check in what way? |
| 02:58.14 | sney | no, it's normal for various programs and/or the kernel to sync disks, which might cause an optical drive to spin up or blink etc |
| 02:58.33 | cws | That, basically. |
| 02:58.45 | *** join/#debian aligator (~aligator@105.156.27.131) |
| 02:58.53 | Heston | check as in cause the light and the motor to check for a non existant cdrom multiple times in a row |
| 02:58.59 | Heston | but that's a relief |
| 02:59.01 | *** join/#debian Main_ (~secntech@unaffiliated/secntech) |
| 03:00.06 | sney | it's highly unlikely to get "rooted" out of nowhere, particularly on a personal computer on a private network. |
| 03:00.25 | sney | you can use stuff like debsums to make sure your packages are still kosher though, |
| 03:00.28 | sney | !debsums |
| 03:00.28 | dpkg | debsums is a utility that will check a package's files against their checksums. The "-a" argument will instruct it to also check configuration files: "apt install debsums; debsums -a -s". Almost all packages come with md5sums included in the package or apt will have generated them for you; generate missing ones with "apt-get install --reinstall `debsums -l`". Ask me about <md5sums>. |
| 03:00.34 | Heston | maybe so but that type of activity is nerve racking |
| 03:01.19 | Heston | I also occasioanlly use packages from non official repos - supposedly well trusted |
| 03:01.36 | *** join/#debian Main_ (~secntech@unaffiliated/secntech) |
| 03:03.38 | *** join/#debian Elodin (~weechat@unaffiliated/padawan) |
| 03:03.56 | *** join/#debian Main_ (~secntech@unaffiliated/secntech) |
| 03:04.58 | *** join/#debian epony (epony@unaffiliated/epony) |
| 03:05.22 | *** join/#debian Aavar_ (aavar@cm-84.212.244.62.getinternet.no) |
| 03:06.23 | *** join/#debian Elodin (~weechat@unaffiliated/padawan) |
| 03:06.44 | *** join/#debian Main_ (~secntech@unaffiliated/secntech) |
| 03:10.14 | Celmor[m] | is ifupdown (i.e. scripts) still the predominant way of configuring networks on debian? |
| 03:10.39 | *** join/#debian al0 (~al0@198.98.54.216) |
| 03:10.54 | *** join/#debian Elodin (~weechat@unaffiliated/padawan) |
| 03:11.27 | cws | For systems without a GUI, yes. For systems with a graphical environment, its often NetworkManager. |
| 03:11.55 | somiaj | it is one of the many ways debian offers, though usually just use /etc/network/interfaces to configure the scripts (I prefer that) |
| 03:12.38 | somiaj | note you can use networkmanager from the command line, no need for a gui |
| 03:14.14 | Celmor[m] | if systemd-networkd is available I'll use that. I don't like having to configure stuff with scripts since you don't necessarily know what state the system is in and it pretty much requires to re-configure all network interfaces to reload the configuration changes |
| 03:14.29 | Celmor[m] | even netplan is better IMO |
| 03:14.41 | cws | netplan is actually pretty great, imho. |
| 03:15.02 | sney | systemd-networkd is available, and getting a bit more popular anecdotally. ifupdown is the default configured by the installer but that's all, you're free to use whatever. |
| 03:15.20 | somiaj | Celmor[m]: systemd-networkd is avaiable, just disabled by default. Note you really don't do much with scripts, you just configure the interfaces file and the scripts do the rest, I find it fairly painless |
| 03:15.53 | Celmor[m] | well, systems building/based on top of debian expect that ifupdown is used which is why I was asking |
| 03:15.56 | somiaj | the interfaces file is just a set of options, and for most setups you don't need to much (though for more complicated setups other tools might be easier) |
| 03:16.29 | Celmor[m] | I have to mess around with iptables rules and when I saw that I had to put in the rules in that script I was done with ifupdown |
| 03:16.36 | somiaj | Celmor[m]: really the only thing in debian is to choose the tool you like and use it, don't mix. Debian provides you lots of choices as to which tool you like the best. |
| 03:17.10 | somiaj | what you don't have to do that, I think you are finding incorrect info, iptables have their own set of scripst which you don't have to include in the interfaces file (though note you should be using nftables these days anyways) |
| 03:17.21 | Celmor[m] | sure, because linux provides you with lots of options. I was just wondering if debian had a preference and it appeared to be ifupdown |
| 03:17.31 | cws | Not a preference. Only a default. |
| 03:17.48 | Celmor[m] | only a matter of wording |
| 03:17.49 | somiaj | Celmor[m]: The fact that you are messing with scripts makes me think you aren't using them in a standard way. |
| 03:18.07 | Celmor[m] | that's the solution I found from SO |
| 03:18.42 | cws | Celmor[m]: A preference implies that you sacrifice function or otherwise encounter functional issues if you go with something else. A default is simply a consequence of needing SOMETHING there to manage networking post-install. |
| 03:18.53 | *** join/#debian al0 (~al0@198.98.54.216) |
| 03:19.48 | Celmor[m] | specifying a default also means tooling building on top of your system expect the default configuration. for example proxmox, either you use ifupdown (in which case you can configure networks through the UI) or you have to do it all manually on the CLI |
| 03:20.32 | cws | proxmox is not debian, they do their own thing. |
| 03:20.51 | Celmor[m] | I've installed proxmox as a package after setting up debian |
| 03:20.57 | cws | Debian works just fine with ifupdown, networkmanager, systemd-networkd, etc. |
| 03:21.05 | cws | Then you have proxmox, not debian,. |
| 03:21.19 | cws | The process of installing proxmox, even as a package, makes a TON of changes to the system. |
| 03:21.44 | *** join/#debian nyov (~nyov@unaffiliated/nyov) |
| 03:22.15 | Celmor[m] | it still uses the same debian repos and for all intents and purposes is based on debian. I'm not blaming debian for things proxmox does wrong but I was just wondering about the choice of using ifupdown as default where the proxmox quirks resulted as a consequence from |
| 03:22.18 | cws | And if they've chosen to base their stuff on ifupdown, that's their choice. Ask them why, that's not a Debian concern. |
| 03:23.37 | cws | networkmanager is only a package away. networkd is a built-in. |
| 03:23.49 | Celmor[m] | settings something as a default has more consequences and choosing something "ancient" like ifupdown means packages don't try to implement any extra support for more modern alternatives |
| 03:23.50 | cws | Proxmox depended on ifupdown by choice, not by requirement. |
| 03:24.21 | cws | Nothing has stopped proxmox, or any other user or project, from using networkd immediately. |
| 03:24.46 | cws | So, again, this is a proxmox question, and as such is offtopic in this channel. |
| 03:24.53 | Celmor[m] | all I was wondering about was the choice of using or rather staying on ifupdown |
| 03:25.03 | Celmor[m] | by debian |
| 03:25.31 | Celmor[m] | whatever proxmox decides to user while considering debians default (which still is ifupdown) is another topic |
| 03:25.34 | Celmor[m] | use* |
| 03:25.39 | cws | Nothing is stopping anyone from using whatever network manager they want to use. Your question is predicated upon an issue that doesn't exist. |
| 03:26.45 | Celmor[m] | not saying there's an issue per se. at the danger of repeating myself, just the implication of setting a default has more consequences, not just for debian itself, which the developer behind might not intend. |
| 03:27.06 | Celmor[m] | that's all I have to say. thanks |
| 03:27.17 | cws | You're imagining implications that don't exist. |
| 03:27.21 | cws | That's it. |
| 03:29.21 | *** join/#debian rustyshackleford (uid236774@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-feoywmzbzhdqmzoj) |
| 03:29.32 | Heston | sney, thanks for the response |
| 03:30.25 | somiaj | what makes you think ifupdown is acient, it uses ip and modern tools in the scripts, and the interfaces file is fairly straight forward. Again sounds like you are using something built on top of debian, not debian or debian's interfaces file. |
| 03:33.50 | *** join/#debian solrize (~solrize@unaffiliated/solrize) |
| 03:34.04 | solrize | heh debian.org package search requires the search term to have 2 or more letters |
| 03:34.16 | solrize | so i can search for pascal or fortran but not C or R |
| 03:34.50 | *** join/#debian al0 (~al0@198.98.54.216) |
| 03:35.38 | *** join/#debian zoitub (~quassel@2603-800c-0501-c362-315b-855c-f06c-0d05.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 03:37.29 | solrize | with some web searches i find that the package for R is r-base but i wouldn't have been able to guess that |
| 03:42.34 | *** join/#debian tnewman (~tnewman@1-171-215-188.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) |
| 03:45.20 | somiaj | solrize: yea, I had the same issue, searching for "R" just matches too many things. |
| 03:45.57 | somiaj | oh I did this with apt search which doens't have the number of character limitation, but searcing for "R" or "C" even if you could would return too many things. |
| 03:47.12 | *** join/#debian Antioch047 (~Antioch@h175-177-044-119.catv02.itscom.jp) |
| 03:48.30 | somiaj | though seems apt search " R " and apt search " C " does help a bit, though can't see a way to only search the short descriptions (not long descriptions too) |
| 03:49.56 | somiaj | but doens't appear you can do " R " at packages.debian.org, which is 3 characters. |
| 03:54.44 | solrize | oh i hadn't thought of using quotes |
| 03:57.06 | *** join/#debian blackest_mamba (~blackest_@2601:249:300:69b1::1b99) |
| 04:01.22 | *** join/#debian EmleyMoor (42b789682f@firthpark.tinsleyviaduct.com) |
| 04:10.44 | *** join/#debian Elodin (~weechat@unaffiliated/padawan) |
| 04:15.27 | *** join/#debian Elodin (~weechat@unaffiliated/padawan) |
| 04:15.31 | *** join/#debian craigevil (craig@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/craigevil) |
| 04:16.11 | *** join/#debian catman370 (~catman@unaffiliated/catman370) |
| 04:24.03 | *** join/#debian blackop (~ubuntu@unaffiliated/blackop) |
| 04:25.06 | *** join/#debian catman370 (~catman@unaffiliated/catman370) |
| 04:25.51 | *** join/#debian Elodin (~weechat@unaffiliated/padawan) |
| 04:26.36 | *** join/#debian s8548a_ (~s8548a@unaffiliated/s8548a) |
| 04:31.11 | *** join/#debian catman370 (~catman@unaffiliated/catman370) |
| 04:32.40 | *** join/#debian tnewman (~tnewman@1-171-215-188.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) |
| 04:37.22 | *** join/#debian wr (~wr@gateway/tor-sasl/wr) |
| 04:37.53 | solrize | what is the debianistically correct way to install a newer version of something than the one in the distro? like if i want to run python 3.9 or 3.10 |
| 04:39.08 | *** join/#debian KhazAkar (uid144674@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vehmrdoahvixzomh) |
| 04:40.35 | *** join/#debian Elodin (~weechat@unaffiliated/padawan) |
| 04:40.40 | wr | on a Debian Xfce 10 to disable lighdm user list greeter-hide-users would this be similar to http://www.webupd8.org/2014/08/lightdm-how-to-disable-user-list-or.html ? |
| 04:42.12 | *** join/#debian diogenes_ (~diogenes_@188.208.122.160) |
| 04:42.49 | wr | i was reading https://wiki.debian.org/LightDM now and it seems to be /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d/01_my.conf |
| 04:47.45 | jmcnaught | solrize: you do not want to replace the system python3 because other software relies on it and a newer Python could introduce changes in behaviour. You could install a newer python3 somewhere like /opt or maybe in your $HOME but using a chroot or container is probably better. |
| 04:48.47 | somiaj | solrize: python is kinda a special case, but it is fairly easy to install a newer python, just use virtual enviorments. |
| 04:49.37 | somiaj | solrize: But I installed python 3.8 and 3.9 by (a) download the python source, (b) compile it in $HOME (but don't install it just compile it), (c) call the binary that was built and use it to create a virtual enviorment, from there you can use that version of python inside its own directory separate of your system. |
| 04:50.52 | *** join/#debian TrentP (~quassel@2604:180:f2::24f) |
| 04:51.57 | *** join/#debian wr (~wr@gateway/tor-sasl/wr) |
| 04:52.14 | *** join/#debian tnewman (~tnewman@1-171-215-188.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) |
| 04:53.27 | somiaj | jmcnaught: python's virtual enviorments are quite nice, and with those it is basically a chroot/container just for python. |
| 04:53.29 | solrize | jmcnaught, somiaj : thanks, i'll look into the virt env stuff. i've never understood it and it seems worth knowing about |
| 04:54.28 | somiaj | solrize: basically it puts all of the python binaries in /some/directory, and then has a script that you run that sets up your enviorment that anything to deal with python/pip is installed and run from only inside that directory independent of your system. |
| 04:57.00 | jmcnaught | somiaj: virtualenvwrapper makes it even sweeter |
| 05:00.24 | *** join/#debian JordiGH (jordi@octave/developer/JordiGH) |
| 05:00.35 | jmcnaught | python 3 also has a venv module that is similar in the standard library, but I don't think this allows you to select an arbitrary python3 interpreter. |
| 05:01.21 | jhutchins | I would be highly suspicious of software that was not bauckwards compatible with mainstream OS releases. |
| 05:02.06 | jmcnaught | Oh I'm wrong, each venv can have its own Python binary |
| 05:02.40 | *** join/#debian TechieGuy (~TechieGuy@unaffiliated/techieguy) |
| 05:02.56 | somiaj | I just used the built one, but by default it juses the binary that ran it, which is fine, if you wanted a different binary, use that to build the enviorment. |
| 05:03.05 | TechieGuy | Hi, I'm installing debian with debootstrap. Now in the "Run Debootstrap |
| 05:03.41 | jhutchins | I don't see anything amazingly new being developed on those enviroments. |
| 05:03.41 | TechieGuy | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:04.05 | somiaj | TechieGuy: well sid isn't testing, but yes you can specific which release to download when you run debootstrap. |
| 05:04.12 | somiaj | TechieGuy: I think you mean bullseye if you really want testing. |
| 05:04.21 | TechieGuy | Which one is testing? :D |
| 05:04.28 | TechieGuy | Ok |
| 05:04.34 | jhutchins | TechieGuy: Yes, and you can break your system and make it unusable. |
| 05:04.49 | TechieGuy | jhutchins: What?! |
| 05:05.03 | jhutchins | TechieGuy: If your goal is to play with the system, go for it. |
| 05:05.19 | *** join/#debian Elodin (~weechat@unaffiliated/padawan) |
| 05:05.20 | TechieGuy | Hi, I'm installing debian with debootstrap. Now in the "Run Debootstrapstage" of doc. What to do if I want to install debian testing? Can I replace buster with sid? |
| 05:05.25 | TechieGuy | This was the full msg |
| 05:05.27 | TechieGuy | jhutchins: |
| 05:05.50 | jhutchins | TechieGuy: If you actually rely on your system to get work done, it's a bad idea. |
| 05:06.16 | jmcnaught | TechieGuy: is this the doc you are following? https://www.debian.org/releases/testing/amd64/apds03.en.html |
| 05:06.33 | TechieGuy | But stable branch contains very old packages. And, I can handle minor issues. |
| 05:06.43 | TechieGuy | I've exp with GNU/Linux |
| 05:06.53 | *** join/#debian JordiGH (jordi@octave/developer/JordiGH) |
| 05:06.55 | *** join/#debian well_laid_lawn (~Jean-luc@115-64-202-112.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 05:08.07 | TechieGuy | jmcnaught: thx |
| 05:09.08 | somiaj | due to the freeze bullseye is fairly usable right now as the focus is just on the remaing rc-bugs, the biggest draw back is the lack of security support |
| 05:10.03 | TechieGuy | Only stable has better security? somiaj |
| 05:10.38 | TechieGuy | Well, then, can I install specific testing packages on stable? |
| 05:10.49 | somiaj | sid has fairly decent security support (at higher risk of broken packages), since when a security vunl is found, the package in stable gets fixed, and a new package gets uploaded to sid |
| 05:11.18 | TechieGuy | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:11.20 | somiaj | But then packages have to wait at least 5 days (often longer) to migrate to testing, so that is why seuciry in testing isn't that good |
| 05:11.21 | jmcnaught | There is a backports repository with newer versions of select packages compiled for Debian stable. |
| 05:11.42 | somiaj | TechieGuy: if there is a backport made, but no in general do not install testing packages in stable. |
| 05:12.08 | *** join/#debian desikiwi (~desikiwi@119.224.54.104) |
| 05:12.19 | somiaj | !don't break debian |
| 05:12.19 | dpkg | rumour has it, dont break debian is https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian |
| 05:13.06 | *** join/#debian wr (~wr@gateway/tor-sasl/wr) |
| 05:13.28 | *** join/#debian Jerrynicki (~niklas@p200300f57703440069bf443756047978.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 05:13.28 | TechieGuy | Well, so what should I do if I want newer packages than stable and still have security fixes? |
| 05:13.44 | TechieGuy | I loved debian except the dated pkgs in stable |
| 05:14.13 | somiaj | TechieGuy: wait until the next release, any 'newer software' you install, you become responsible for the support and secuirty of. |
| 05:14.42 | somiaj | TechieGuy: outside of sns (newer version numbers), what exactly is it you need that stable doesn't provide? To many older versions are a feature not a drawback. |
| 05:15.20 | somiaj | And note there are various ways you can install newer versions of specific programs you work with in a safe manner, and still have the stability and security support on your base system. |
| 05:15.56 | TechieGuy | Such as my DE, Plasma Desktop, has added a lot of features in 5.20, somiaj |
| 05:15.59 | somiaj | backports is one (though backports don't have direct security support), though complinig a local install of the software is also a reasonable way. |
| 05:16.34 | TechieGuy | somiaj: What other ways? Such as? |
| 05:16.49 | TechieGuy | Backports doesn't hv latest plasma |
| 05:16.51 | somiaj | TechieGuy: DEs are big bloated nightmares of package dependencies, you won't easily get them backported. Here, either wait until the next release in 2-4 months, or run testing and deal with limited security support. Many desktop users are just fine using bullseye |
| 05:17.08 | somiaj | there is no easy/nice way to backport a DE, they are to big and interconnected. |
| 05:17.50 | TechieGuy | Can you suggest me other way or other distro which has everything of debian and newer pkgs in stable branch? |
| 05:17.51 | somiaj | but many desktop users run testing just fine, and just deal with the limited security support (which isn't too bad on a desktop system that isn't actively serving software and has multiple users accessing) |
| 05:17.57 | *** join/#debian aaro (aaro@gateway/shell/xshellz/x-ujaqialsomxptazn) |
| 05:18.20 | *** join/#debian Unforgiving (unfr@gateway/shell/xshellz/x-wkulbfsxkrpfqwqm) |
| 05:18.21 | somiaj | there are even ways to install the package from sid for grave (kernel usually) based security issues. |
| 05:18.51 | somiaj | TechieGuy: there are lots of based off debian distros people like. But most of us here would suggest debian and say it is worth the 2-4 month wait to get the newer features in the next release. |
| 05:18.53 | *** join/#debian paladox (paladox@wikimedia/paladox) |
| 05:19.04 | *** join/#debian kristijonas (~kristijon@78-56-32-39.static.zebra.lt) |
| 05:19.28 | somiaj | though as said, running testing on a desktop is usually just fine, espically this late in the release cycle during the freeze. |
| 05:19.29 | TechieGuy | I'm so confused. Coming from Gentoo only bcz it has a very high time building |
| 05:19.48 | *** join/#debian oxek (~oxek@unaffiliated/oxek) |
| 05:20.29 | somiaj | Debian just suggests and supports a frozen stable release, testing/unstalbe is the development branch for those who want to test out the next release before it is officially released. Many use testing/unstable as their desktop, I was just trying to point out some of its drawbacks. |
| 05:20.42 | jmcnaught | TechieGuy: The Debian stable way is to use the same versions of most software for a couple years at a time. When Debian gets a new release every couple of years you get newer versions of software and new features. |
| 05:21.35 | jmcnaught | TechieGuy: "stable" here means static or unchanging. You can count on security updates in Debian and not have to worry that something might need to be reconfigured because of a new version. |
| 05:21.44 | somiaj | (With the added advantage you know it is fairly well tested, and has good security support for the 2-3 years you run it) |
| 05:21.45 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f154700821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 05:22.47 | jmcnaught | For many applications there are newer packages on backports, and there are other options like Flatpak and Snap packages too. |
| 05:22.49 | somiaj | TechieGuy: note I ran debian testing/sid as my desktop for years, it isn't that bad, but it is not an 'offical release'. But for someone from gentoo you may find it just fine (once you undersatnd how the development model works) |
| 05:23.20 | somiaj | I just got tired of constant updates, fixing my machine when updates break things/or change things, and so on, and found stable suited my needs, I just ahd to wait a little longer to get new fancy features. |
| 05:23.24 | somiaj | !sns |
| 05:23.24 | dpkg | Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>. |
| 05:23.24 | abff | sid is solid |
| 05:23.45 | TechieGuy | somiaj: I'm only worried about security updates. I'm sensitive about security. |
| 05:24.27 | somiaj | TechieGuy: a lot of sercurity depends on what you use your machine for, most security issues are not vulnabilities for desktop systems which don't have remote users. |
| 05:24.47 | TechieGuy | Ok. Lemme try it then. |
| 05:24.48 | *** join/#debian nickodd_ (~nickodd_@unaffiliated/nickodd) |
| 05:24.48 | abff | TechieGuy: security updates are fast tracked from sid down to stable even though the rest of stable doesn't change |
| 05:24.49 | somiaj | TechieGuy: but agreed, if you want a solid stable system with good security support, stick with stable. |
| 05:25.24 | *** join/#debian MagicalWizzy (~MagicalWi@150.107.173.231) |
| 05:25.25 | somiaj | TechieGuy: if you really want to run testing, you have to pay attention to the DSA (debian security announcments) and if you see something that may affect you, often times installing the package form sid will work just fine while you wait for the fix to propage to testing. |
| 05:26.06 | somiaj | But to me if stability and security are primarly concerns, it might be worth waiting a little longer to get newer software/features (though as I said, bullseye will probably be released in 4 months or so, so not long of a wait) |
| 05:27.06 | *** join/#debian Ericounet (~Eric@2a01:e0a:d0:3c20:c323:6cee:9994:72c4) |
| 05:27.26 | TechieGuy | Ah, running Debian terminal many days later. feels like home. <3 |
| 05:44.34 | *** join/#debian r4u1 (~raf@cpe-76-173-32-66.hawaii.res.rr.com) |
| 05:46.23 | craigevil | anyone use flatpaks? i tried installing one and got "Out of space" ldconfig error |
| 05:46.26 | *** join/#debian radkos (~radkos@213.91.182.188) |
| 05:46.59 | *** join/#debian coot (~coot@37.30.50.130.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) |
| 05:50.09 | somiaj | craigevil: are you out of space? 'df -h'? |
| 05:51.59 | craigevil | no i am using a 500GB ssd and only 47GB is used |
| 05:52.26 | craigevil | /dev/root 458G 48G 387G 11% |
| 05:52.46 | somiaj | could be something with the flatpak itself |
| 05:53.14 | craigevil | could be i removed it will try reinstalling or trying a different one |
| 05:53.28 | jhutchins | craigevil: flatpack: not developed, or supppred by Debian. |
| 05:54.06 | jhutchins | apt is supported. Flatpack and Snap are not. |
| 05:54.10 | somiaj | ahh seems that flatpak creates some backup ld cache in /run/..., which is a tmpfs, and that is probably where you are running out of space. |
| 05:54.27 | *** join/#debian artlogic (~artlogic@znc.kruth.org) |
| 05:54.31 | craigevil | somiaj, thanks will check that |
| 05:56.07 | craigevil | jhutchins, and yet snapd and flatpak along with plasma-discover are in the repos |
| 05:56.59 | *** join/#debian chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc0a:2700:a18f:8f8b:9851:2fb5) |
| 05:57.01 | jhutchins | Containers are actually a good way to experiment with undeveloped software, but reallly can't support them here. |
| 05:57.23 | somiaj | we can't really support some random flatpak you download though, but it appears that flatpak creates some tmp ldconfig in /run/ld-so-cache-dir/<long string>/, and since that is a tmpfs, it could be is what is filling up and giving you the out of space error. |
| 05:57.44 | somiaj | Unsure if you can pass flatpak options to change where this backup/cache is built |
| 05:59.19 | *** join/#debian lord4163 (~lord4163@90-230-194-205-no86.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 06:00.56 | *** join/#debian emOne (~emOne@unaffiliated/emone) |
| 06:01.53 | somiaj | maybe creating a link at /run/ld-so-cache-dir/ to someplace on your hd could also work. Is your /run partition basically full, or maybe this flatpak just requires a lot more space than most do |
| 06:02.56 | *** join/#debian martinus__ (~martin@2.24.202.77.rev.sfr.net) |
| 06:04.47 | *** join/#debian wr (~wr@gateway/tor-sasl/wr) |
| 06:05.55 | craigevil | found what is probably the problem, max_user_namespaces value |
| 06:08.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1033] by debhelper |
| 06:08.04 | *** join/#debian darutoko (~darutoko@92.125.55.162) |
| 06:09.39 | *** join/#debian badsektor (~badsektor@unaffiliated/badsektor) |
| 06:10.57 | *** join/#debian endstille (~endstille@mail01.grolman-group.com) |
| 06:14.28 | *** join/#debian NyanCat (~NyanCat@unaffiliated/nyancat) |
| 06:14.32 | *** join/#debian chele (~chele@5.53.222.202) |
| 06:15.02 | *** join/#debian NyanCat (~NyanCat@unaffiliated/nyancat) |
| 06:15.36 | *** join/#debian NyanCat (~NyanCat@unaffiliated/nyancat) |
| 06:16.11 | *** join/#debian NyanCat (~NyanCat@unaffiliated/nyancat) |
| 06:16.45 | *** join/#debian NyanCat (~NyanCat@unaffiliated/nyancat) |
| 06:17.24 | *** join/#debian craigevil (craig@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/craigevil) |
| 06:17.55 | tarzeau_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:18.06 | craigevil | aha problem solved, hardening-runtime package was the issue |
| 06:18.34 | *** join/#debian Ceber (~cerberus@p508c2b39.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:19.33 | *** join/#debian TechieGuy (~TechieGuy@unaffiliated/techieguy) |
| 06:19.41 | *** part/#debian solrize (~solrize@unaffiliated/solrize) |
| 06:19.48 | TechieGuy | Is it a must to set proc to mount in fstab? |
| 06:21.10 | *** join/#debian towo^work (~towo@unaffiliated/towo/x-4064351) |
| 06:27.48 | TheBigK02 | technec: why would u want to remove it? |
| 06:27.57 | TheBigK02 | damn... he gone.. :D |
| 06:28.00 | TheBigK02 | sorry technec |
| 06:28.20 | somiaj | I don't have /proc in my fstab, tough systemd handels a lot of things these days |
| 06:29.03 | TheBigK02 | somiaj: ur right... didnt even realise that :D |
| 06:29.27 | TheBigK02 | hmm, on my raspi and my server its in there |
| 06:29.45 | TheBigK02 | but may be obselete .. if i remember correctly i installed my server on lenny |
| 06:30.58 | craigevil | it isn't on my pi400 |
| 06:31.48 | TheBigK02 | i have a raspi 4a? (i believe) 4 gig ram... with raspi OS |
| 06:31.50 | somiaj | yea, I think systemd handels a lot of that core stuff |
| 06:31.52 | craigevil | only thing in fstab is /boot and / |
| 06:32.00 | TheBigK02 | but i really wanna switch to plain debian and 64bit... |
| 06:32.10 | craigevil | i am on arm64 |
| 06:32.19 | TheBigK02 | its good? |
| 06:32.23 | TheBigK02 | which kernel u use? |
| 06:32.35 | craigevil | Host: raspberrypi Kernel: 5.10.27-v8+ aarch64 bits: 64 Desktop: LXDE 0.10.1 Distro: Raspberry Pi OS 11 (bullseye) |
| 06:32.56 | TheBigK02 | nice. i want that too |
| 06:33.07 | TheBigK02 | any hints or tipps besides the official wiki? |
| 06:33.15 | *** join/#debian filePeter (~filePeter@ip4d16f343.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 06:33.42 | craigevil | jump over to #raspberrypi before someone has a heart attack |
| 06:33.43 | jmcnaught | https://raspi.debian.net/ |
| 06:33.53 | *** join/#debian black_ant (~antilope@unaffiliated/black-ant/x-1505394) |
| 06:34.07 | TheBigK02 | and my server i reinstalled on jessie... i had some weird booting issue i remember... and at some point i gave up and reinstalled and restored from backup. hard when u cant look at the screen while booting |
| 06:35.06 | TheBigK02 | why would someone have a heart attack. raspi is just the hardware and debian the OS. its support related isnt it? |
| 06:35.47 | craigevil | only if you are running debian and not raspi os |
| 06:36.03 | TheBigK02 | i want to switch TO debian... nothing wrong in that, isnt it? :) |
| 06:36.37 | craigevil | grab one of the images from here https://raspi.debian.net/daily-images/ |
| 06:36.56 | TheBigK02 | awesome. will do :) |
| 06:37.19 | TheBigK02 | im not at home right now. but may be today or on weekend... will see... thanks |
| 06:37.29 | craigevil | they are minimal images that will boot you to a terminal |
| 06:37.39 | craigevil | from there just install what you want |
| 06:37.41 | TheBigK02 | ya. i dont run desktop on that thing. |
| 06:38.13 | *** join/#debian lankanmon (~LKNnet@cpeb4fbe4e331bd-cm64777d632380.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 06:38.30 | TheBigK02 | is some sort of home server for me... doing a side to side vpn.. and some services like boot environment and some NAS features... |
| 06:39.10 | *** join/#debian is0ke3 (~is0ke3@unaffiliated/isokee) |
| 06:40.24 | *** join/#debian mezzo (~mezzo@176-141-171-88.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 06:40.27 | craigevil | my pi400 is kinda a frankendebian, started off as the official raspi arm64, i updated that, then added testing, upgraded to that, then added unstable and upgraded to that |
| 06:40.49 | craigevil | still has the raspi kernel and configs, everything else is sid |
| 06:40.56 | *** join/#debian citypw (~citypw@gateway/tor-sasl/citypw) |
| 06:41.43 | oxek | I think the rule is we support frankendebian only around halloween, but don't quote me on that :) |
| 06:41.47 | craigevil | cat /etc/os-release |
| 06:41.48 | craigevil | PRETTY_NAME="Debian GNU/Linux 11 (bullseye)" |
| 06:42.24 | oxek | oh and on april fools it's all the debian derivatives, but not actual debian |
| 06:42.40 | *** join/#debian rwp (~invalid@havoc.proulx.com) |
| 06:42.57 | *** join/#debian ridik (~ridik@p57a9e4f0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:43.47 | craigevil | man i love my connection the debian image for the pi 4 took 49 seconds to download |
| 06:44.57 | *** join/#debian tagomago (~tagomago@80.224.176.172.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 06:48.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1040] by debhelper |
| 06:49.12 | oxek | is that surprisingly low, hence sarcasm about loving your connection, or surprisingly fast, hence actually loving your connection? |
| 06:49.22 | oxek | I don't remember the last time I waited 49s for anything |
| 06:50.12 | oxek | s/low/slow |
| 06:51.32 | craigevil | it would have been like 5 seconds if i wasn't using a vpn |
| 06:52.15 | craigevil | even with the vpn 380+MB in 49 seconds seemed pretty good, i use uget |
| 06:54.24 | *** join/#debian idhugo (~idhugo@87-49-147-45-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net) |
| 06:56.12 | *** join/#debian emOne (~emOne@unaffiliated/emone) |
| 06:56.28 | *** part/#debian jazza (~goring@202-153-216-119.ca99d8.mel.nbn.aussiebb.net) |
| 06:56.56 | *** join/#debian drzacek (~drzacek@b941c009.business.dg-w.de) |
| 06:58.23 | *** join/#debian uvolmer (~uvolmer@2001-4dd0-212c-82-5acc-6b0b-da9c-d52c.ipv6dyn.netcologne.de) |
| 06:58.48 | *** join/#debian mmt (~mmt1@efy56.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 07:02.25 | *** join/#debian Tom01 (~tom@a89-183-7-179.net-htp.de) |
| 07:02.51 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f154700821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:03.21 | *** join/#debian idhugo_ (~idhugo@87-49-45-4-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net) |
| 07:16.00 | *** join/#debian ValeraRozuvan (~ValeraRoz@176.113.212.54) |
| 07:16.09 | alexrelis[m] | craigevil: IT'S ALIVVEEEEE! |
| 07:21.25 | *** join/#debian fearnothing (~fearnothi@unaffiliated/fearnothing) |
| 07:23.42 | TheBigK02 | alexrelis[m]: u mean ur flatpack? how did u solve it? |
| 07:24.28 | craigevil | i had the hardening-runtime package installed removed that, rebooted and the flatpak worked |
| 07:24.59 | craigevil | it was limiting max_user_namespaces value |
| 07:25.21 | TheBigK02 | oki |
| 07:27.07 | craigevil | in case anyone is curious this was the actual error message: bwrap: Creating new namespace failed: No space left on device |
| 07:27.10 | craigevil | error: ldconfig failed, exit status 256 |
| 07:28.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1034] by debhelper |
| 07:30.47 | *** join/#debian Typhon (~Typhon@dslb-088-066-096-182.088.066.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 07:33.56 | *** join/#debian useless-eater (~hoydand@195.181.139.135) |
| 07:34.49 | *** join/#debian TomyWork (~TomyLobo@p200300e80f133c0001518dc24c97d993.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:35.28 | *** join/#debian de-facto_ (~de-facto@gateway/tor-sasl/de-facto) |
| 07:35.58 | *** join/#debian dreamon (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) |
| 07:38.25 | *** join/#debian Haudegen (~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at) |
| 07:38.42 | *** join/#debian HeXiLeD (~grumpy@gateway/tor-sasl/hexiled) |
| 07:39.54 | *** join/#debian nifker (~Thunderbi@200116b80acf7a00cce6af78bd141801.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
| 07:41.12 | *** join/#debian uid_max (~samw@host109-145-0-20.range109-145.btcentralplus.com) |
| 07:47.32 | *** join/#debian jimmiehansson (~jimmiehan@m83-185-91-216.cust.tele2.se) |
| 07:51.10 | *** join/#debian oahong (~samigarus@unaffiliated/samigarus) |
| 07:52.09 | *** join/#debian xet7_ (~xet7@85-156-127-25.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 07:52.46 | *** join/#debian xet7_ (~xet7@85-156-127-25.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 07:52.49 | *** join/#debian Texou (~Texou@unaffiliated/texou) |
| 07:53.15 | *** join/#debian fflori (~fflori@194.230.155.135) |
| 07:53.42 | *** join/#debian tagomago (~tagomago@80.224.176.172.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 07:57.38 | *** join/#debian BenNZ (~Ben__@203.96.218.156) |
| 07:58.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1042] by debhelper |
| 08:01.52 | *** join/#debian tnewman (~tnewman@1-171-215-188.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) |
| 08:02.30 | *** join/#debian Stardroid (uid4060@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iyamgoyixrhdtjhk) |
| 08:03.30 | ksk | craigevil: are you actually using Debian, and not "Raspbian"? :) |
| 08:04.21 | ksk | oh, totally unrelated to what was said about Raspberrypi? Nevermind me! |
| 08:10.57 | *** join/#debian otisolsen70 (~otisolsen@xd4ed80b5.cust.hiper.dk) |
| 08:11.23 | *** join/#debian idhugo__ (~idhugo@130.225.16.16) |
| 08:12.53 | *** join/#debian TriJetScud (~TriJetScu@23.172.144.5) |
| 08:20.13 | *** join/#debian Piggy (~Piggy@unaffiliated/sussudio) |
| 08:21.28 | *** join/#debian enoq (~textual@194-208-146-143.lampert.tv) |
| 08:22.09 | *** join/#debian drzacek (~drzacek@b941c009.business.dg-w.de) |
| 08:22.26 | *** join/#debian alpernebbi (~quassel@178.233.26.119) |
| 08:22.46 | *** join/#debian format_c (~format_c@unaffiliated/format-c/x-8927423) |
| 08:22.49 | *** join/#debian erle- (~stephan@2a04:ee41:3:3297:d91f:957:9f93:7384) |
| 08:24.12 | *** join/#debian abff (~abff@germ.lanvaux.fr) |
| 08:24.34 | *** join/#debian aligator (~aligator@105.156.27.131) |
| 08:24.43 | *** join/#debian mibo (~mibo@194.213.207.197) |
| 08:26.16 | *** join/#debian TechieGuy (~TechieGuy@unaffiliated/techieguy) |
| 08:26.59 | TechieGuy | Will xorg server be not installed when I install kde-plasma-desktop pkg without recommends? |
| 08:27.31 | TechieGuy | it should be a compulsory dep bcz kde-plasma-desktop won't run at all without it |
| 08:27.46 | *** join/#debian moerf (~moerf@p200300f1df10c000386969a9d867d68a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:28.41 | jelly | TechieGuy, an X server doesn't have to run on the same machine X apps or DE do. |
| 08:29.07 | TechieGuy | OIC |
| 08:29.38 | *** join/#debian diogenes_ (~diogenes_@188.208.121.47) |
| 08:29.51 | *** join/#debian donuthole (~babbage_@79.97.146.2) |
| 08:30.15 | TechieGuy | Btw, in Gentoo, installing a pkg from testing branch is super easy. Just add the pkg and it's deps' name to a text file. I wish smthng like that were in Debian |
| 08:30.52 | TechieGuy | I'd lke to request devs to add the feature |
| 08:32.41 | *** join/#debian lankanmon (~LKNnet@cpeb4fbe4e331bd-cm64777d632380.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 08:37.44 | *** join/#debian netcrash (~charmande@43.135.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt) |
| 08:37.55 | craigevil | ksk, raspi os upgraded to sid, still using pi kernel and configs |
| 08:40.10 | jelly | craigevil, there are actual debian images these days https://raspi.debian.net/ |
| 08:40.37 | *** join/#debian fb_ (~freebench@92.253.251.234) |
| 08:40.48 | craigevil | i know i have one on a sd card |
| 08:41.41 | jelly | TechieGuy, that will never happen in debian; stable-backports are probably the closest thing |
| 08:41.50 | craigevil | this os will blow up one day, then i will switch to debian |
| 08:41.59 | jelly | !stable-backports |
| 08:42.09 | jelly | dpkg, backports |
| 08:42.09 | dpkg | A backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications. http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch02.en.html (2.7.4 and 2.7.10), http://backports.debian.org/ . Ask me about <debian-backports> and <backport caveat>. See also <simple sid backport>. |
| 08:42.22 | jelly | !debian-backports |
| 08:42.22 | dpkg | backports.debian.org (formerly backports.org) is an official repository of <backports> for the current stable (see <buster backports>) and oldstable (<stretch backports>) distributions, prepared by Debian developers. Ask me about <backport caveat> and read http://backports.debian.org/Instructions/. See also <bdo kernel> <bdo mirrors> <bdo contents> <bdo list> <bdo bugs> <bdo xorg> <bdo NEW>. |
| 08:42.25 | TechieGuy | jelly: Very sad. But may i ask why? |
| 08:42.53 | jelly | TechieGuy, binary, compiled packages and dependencies don't make it easy |
| 08:43.27 | jelly | esp within a single namespace. It's probably easy on NixOS |
| 08:43.57 | TechieGuy | Suppose, I download a .deb and it's deps from testing branch. can't I just install it with dpkg? |
| 08:44.26 | jelly | in general, no, you can't |
| 08:45.02 | jelly | tehnically you can, but the resulting installation in unsupportable by anyone |
| 08:45.09 | jelly | !frankendebian |
| 08:45.09 | dpkg | When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall> |
| 08:45.11 | TechieGuy | What is the reason? What issues may occur? |
| 08:46.57 | jelly | various components rely on one another and are only tested well within a release. Mixing and matching does several things: 1) new unforeseen interactions 2) impossible to apply security patches because patching relices on strictly monotonic version increases |
| 08:48.09 | TechieGuy | Suppose, I won't take pkgs from random repos or mix stable and testing, everything but the downloaded pkg will be stable, my pkg won't even belong to core system pkgs and just a normal user pkg. In that case? |
| 08:48.31 | TechieGuy | The pkg will be from packages.debian.org |
| 08:49.29 | jelly | TechieGuy, 2) still stands, even if the package has no extra dependency |
| 08:50.15 | TechieGuy | Ok. That's not a big concern though. What could be the harms arising from 2? |
| 08:50.42 | *** join/#debian unluckyshrubbery (~unluckysh@unaffiliated/unluckyshrubbery) |
| 08:50.58 | jelly | how is no security patches not a big concern? |
| 08:51.06 | *** join/#debian Iamahuman4 (~noname@wikipedia/jukeboksi) |
| 08:52.32 | TechieGuy | jelly: I've less idea about it. What could be the caveats arising from not having security patch in a normal user pkg? |
| 08:53.16 | jelly | you're basically saying "why do security patches exist" |
| 08:53.48 | jelly | because software has security bugs that can lead to compromise, data and money loss |
| 08:54.10 | *** join/#debian darunesh (~darunesh@106.220.186.250) |
| 08:55.30 | *** join/#debian null1337 (~WhoAmI@c-73-34-250-51.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 08:55.50 | TechieGuy | This is bloat. I don't have amd, nvidia or radeon. https://dpaste.com/3RQGG7A2M |
| 08:56.17 | *** join/#debian DaRock (~quassel@202-65-80-6.ip4.superloop.com) |
| 08:56.38 | DaRock | hey guys |
| 08:57.35 | DaRock | just trying to use https://salsa.debian.org/raspi-team/image-specs and follow the instructions for raspi_3_buster.img and getting serious issues with the build |
| 08:57.45 | DaRock | ERROR: No runner implements step with keys create-file, contents, unless |
| 08:58.01 | DaRock | any ideas whats going on? |
| 08:58.37 | *** join/#debian jpe (~jp@fnord.cryptophone.de) |
| 09:00.20 | *** join/#debian OlCe (~user@amontsouris-157-1-8-123.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 09:01.09 | jelly | TechieGuy, if you're installing a slim or embedded system with very limited disk space, you can pick and choose which xorg video driver to install first, then install xorg server and it won't pull in video-all |
| 09:02.33 | TechieGuy | jelly: I'll use modesetting for intel |
| 09:03.10 | jelly | TechieGuy, if you're installing on a general purpose x86 workstation or laptop with enough disk space, 10GB for / filesystem or more, I suggest ignoring the percieved bloat and installing Recommends as well |
| 09:03.35 | jelly | !install kde |
| 09:03.35 | dpkg | The 'kde-standard' package gets you the common set-up, 'kde-plasma-desktop' and 'kde-plasma-netbook' provide minimal KDE 4 setups with respective flavouring, and 'kde-full' installs everything KDE 4. To install using Debian-Installer (if not using KDE CD-1): from the 'Software selection' dialog, choose "KDE" (use space bar to toggle selections), then "Continue". |
| 09:04.08 | jelly | that's a bit dated but those package names still pull in all the plasma bit |
| 09:04.22 | *** join/#debian NeoCron (~neocron_@p200300c4cf1e0a007a4e42898a9a62c2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:08.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1050] by debhelper |
| 09:08.14 | *** join/#debian LuKaRo (~LuKaRo@p4fc3292a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:09.31 | *** join/#debian b0rsuk (~b0rsuk@78-131-200-253.tktelekom.pl) |
| 09:12.12 | b0rsuk | What's the command to run a game in terminal in such a way that it spawns a new terminal? My priority is that error messages should be visible if it crashes or fails to run. |
| 09:12.31 | b0rsuk | I also want to set terminal title, so gnome-terminal is out. xfce4-terminal is an option. |
| 09:13.37 | *** join/#debian czesmir (~stefan@aeej245.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 09:13.44 | b0rsuk | I'm using i3 window manager, and I'm putting simple shell scripts and/or symlinks in $HOME/bin so I can press $MOD-d, opening dmenu and running an app by typing. |
| 09:18.08 | *** join/#debian prahou (~r@176-114-240-37.rychlydrat.cz) |
| 09:18.51 | TechieGuy | jelly: What if I still wanna avoid bloat? |
| 09:19.16 | *** join/#debian mortderire (~mortderir@192.198.151.44) |
| 09:19.48 | DaRock | what am I missing in order to build successfully? |
| 09:24.36 | TheBigK02 | TechieGuy: what u mean with bloat |
| 09:24.53 | TechieGuy | Sry, they were actually makedeps |
| 09:24.57 | TechieGuy | Not bloat |
| 09:25.29 | *** join/#debian Night-Shade (~TimF@ip5b406c41.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 09:26.52 | TechieGuy | Can't find this mirror in debian Mirror list: http://mirror.xeonbd.com/?dir=debian |
| 09:28.13 | jelly | TechieGuy, to avoid pulling in a metapackage with all the drivers, like xserver-xorg-video-all, you'd figure out which package pulls it in, see if there's an alternative dependency and install that first |
| 09:28.54 | jelly | ,depends xserver-xorg |
| 09:28.55 | judd | Package xserver-xorg in buster/amd64 -- depends: xserver-xorg-core (>= 2:1.17.2-2), xserver-xorg-video-all | xorg-driver-video, xserver-xorg-input-all | xorg-driver-input, xkb-data (>= 1.4), x11-xkb-utils. |
| 09:29.08 | jelly | ,whatprovides xorg-driver-video, |
| 09:29.10 | jelly | ,whatprovides xorg-driver-video |
| 09:29.12 | TechieGuy | jelly: Why isn't this mirror- http://mirror.xeonbd.com/?dir=debian, in Debian mirror list? |
| 09:29.30 | judd | Package xorg-driver-video, in buster/amd64 is provided by: xorgxrdp, xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu, xserver-xorg-video-ast, xserver-xorg-video-ati, xserver-xorg-video-cirrus, xserver-xorg-video-dummy, xserver-xorg-video-fbdev, xserver-xorg-video-glide, xserver-xorg-video-intel, xserver-xorg-video-ivtv, xserver-xorg-video-mach64, xserver-xorg-video-mga, xserver-xorg-video-neomagic, xserver-xorg-video- |
| 09:29.31 | judd | nouveau, xserver-xorg-video-nvidia, xserver-xorg-video-nvidia-legacy-340xx, xserver-xorg-video-nvidia-legacy-390xx, xserver-xorg-video-openchrome, xserver-xorg-video-qxl, xserver-xorg-video-r128, xserver-xorg-video-radeon, xserver-xorg-video-savage, xserver-xorg-video-siliconmotion, xserver-xorg-video-sisusb, xserver-xorg-video-tdfx, xserver-xorg-video-trident, xserver-xorg-video-vesa, xserver-xorg- (1 more message) |
| 09:29.32 | judd | Package xorg-driver-video in buster/amd64 is provided by: xorgxrdp, xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu, xserver-xorg-video-ast, xserver-xorg-video-ati, xserver-xorg-video-cirrus, xserver-xorg-video-dummy, xserver-xorg-video-fbdev, xserver-xorg-video-glide, xserver-xorg-video-intel, xserver-xorg-video-ivtv, xserver-xorg-video-mach64, xserver-xorg-video-mga, xserver-xorg-video-neomagic, xserver-xorg-video- |
| 09:29.33 | judd | nouveau, xserver-xorg-video-nvidia, xserver-xorg-video-nvidia-legacy-340xx, xserver-xorg-video-nvidia-legacy-390xx, xserver-xorg-video-openchrome, xserver-xorg-video-qxl, xserver-xorg-video-r128, xserver-xorg-video-radeon, xserver-xorg-video-savage, xserver-xorg-video-siliconmotion, xserver-xorg-video-sisusb, xserver-xorg-video-tdfx, xserver-xorg-video-trident, xserver-xorg-video-vesa, xserver-xorg- (1 more message) |
| 09:29.52 | TechieGuy | Awh no! |
| 09:30.02 | *** join/#debian aligator (~aligator@105.156.27.131) |
| 09:30.50 | jelly | TechieGuy, best ask the mirror owner |
| 09:31.10 | TechieGuy | :/ |
| 09:31.36 | jelly | !debian mirror checker |
| 09:31.36 | dpkg | Debian mirrors have timestamp files we use to determine how recently they have been updated. Here are some statistics the mirror maintainers provide: https://mirror-master.debian.org/status/mirror-status.html and http://ftp.de.debian.org/dmc/today/ Ask me about <mirrors>. #debian-mirrors on irc.oftc.net. |
| 09:31.46 | *** join/#debian bolovanos_ (~bolovanos@unaffiliated/bolovanos) |
| 09:32.35 | jelly | ,more |
| 09:32.36 | judd | video-vmware. |
| 09:33.03 | *** join/#debian lucad111 (~lucad111@linaro/lucad111) |
| 09:33.51 | jelly | you'll probably have to install at least one of those to make apt happy |
| 09:34.04 | jelly | eg. xserver-xorg-video-dummy |
| 09:34.19 | jelly | video-modesetting is built-in, I think |
| 09:35.11 | *** join/#debian sinaowolabi (~Sina@41.190.31.120) |
| 09:35.22 | *** join/#debian longshot (~nobody@2001:470:f0f4:a0a:a404:f92d:6b12:b81a) |
| 09:36.09 | *** join/#debian TrentP (~quassel@2604:180:f2::24f) |
| 09:38.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1056] by debhelper |
| 09:38.47 | *** join/#debian darunesh (~darunesh@2401:4900:36cc:c78a:d11e:159b:89af:901d) |
| 09:38.52 | *** join/#debian brontosaurusrex (~woot@unaffiliated/brontosaurusrex) |
| 09:40.15 | TechieGuy | jelly: Actually, they are makedeps. So, no issue |
| 09:40.53 | jelly | build-deps for what? |
| 09:41.25 | TechieGuy | xserver-xorg |
| 09:42.00 | jelly | are you trying to backport xorg X server |
| 09:42.03 | *** join/#debian darunesh_ (~darunesh@122.170.110.31) |
| 09:42.47 | *** join/#debian darunesh_ (~darunesh@122.170.110.31) |
| 09:44.11 | *** join/#debian qubenix (~qubenix@66.172.11.228) |
| 09:45.30 | jelly | judd, checkbackport xserver-xorg |
| 09:45.31 | judd | Backporting package xserver-xorg in sidâbuster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 12). |
| 09:45.49 | TechieGuy | jelly: No. Just a dep of sddm. i'm a minimalist so objected abt those pkgs |
| 09:46.00 | jelly | judd, checkbackport sddm |
| 09:46.01 | judd | Backporting package sddm in sidâbuster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 13). |
| 09:46.40 | jelly | TechieGuy, dependencies and build deps can be vastly different |
| 09:47.03 | jelly | what are you trying to build |
| 09:47.23 | TechieGuy | Ya. I just ensured that from archlinux.org/packages. Why doesn't packages.debian.org mention tht? |
| 09:47.30 | *** join/#debian ectospasm (~ectospasm@unaffiliated/ectospasm) |
| 09:47.38 | jelly | mention what? |
| 09:47.39 | TechieGuy | jelly: Nthng. Just installing sddm |
| 09:47.53 | TechieGuy | jelly: Which are makedeps |
| 09:48.17 | jelly | sorry, I misunderstood, what does "makedeps" mean then? |
| 09:49.10 | jelly | thought it means... deps needed to "make" |
| 09:51.05 | TechieGuy | By makedeps I mean, build dependencies |
| 09:55.40 | jelly | but you're not building anything |
| 09:56.52 | *** join/#debian mquin (~mquin@freenode/staff/mquin) |
| 09:57.47 | TechieGuy | w8 a sec. |
| 09:59.43 | jelly | !build-deps |
| 09:59.43 | dpkg | build-deps are the packages you need to compile a package. "aptitude build-dep package-you-want-to-build" will install them, or use mk-build-deps (equivs package) to have undo-able build-dep installation. If using <uupdate> or <ssb> to update a package, you will likely need additional -dev packages. You can «/msg judd builddeps package». |
| 09:59.56 | jelly | !package rebuild |
| 09:59.56 | dpkg | 1) Add a <deb-src> line for your current release to your sources.list 2) apt update; apt install build-essential devscripts fakeroot; apt build-dep packagename 3) as any user, apt-get source packagename 4) cd packagename-version/; ask me about <debian/rules>; 5) dpkg-buildpackage -uc -us 6) as root, apt install ../packagename-version.deb. Ask me about <debian/rules>, <nocheck>, <nostrip>, <apt-get source>. |
| 10:00.01 | jelly | !simple sid backport |
| 10:00.01 | dpkg | First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>. |
| 10:01.22 | *** join/#debian megoix (~megoix@219.92-221-176.customer.lyse.net) |
| 10:01.47 | TechieGuy | jelly: I realize. According to archlinux pkgs site, those video drivers are build-deps of xorg server. |
| 10:02.06 | jelly | TechieGuy, why do you care about build deps? |
| 10:02.25 | TechieGuy | Bcz, they are being shown to be installed by apt |
| 10:02.31 | jelly | no, they're not |
| 10:02.34 | *** join/#debian conyers (~matt_m@2601:182:cb00:3b9f:6894:3590:6b6f:3ec1) |
| 10:02.37 | avu | I think the misunderstanding here might be that apt installs build-deps by default as TechieGuy thinks those drivers are just build-deps. |
| 10:02.41 | jelly | TechieGuy, those are binary deps. |
| 10:02.48 | avu | TechieGuy: build-deps are not installed by default. |
| 10:02.57 | jelly | apt install does not care about build deps at all |
| 10:03.05 | *** join/#debian megoix (~megoix@219.92-221-176.customer.lyse.net) |
| 10:03.09 | avu | unless you tell it to |
| 10:03.18 | jelly | build deps are completely separate from binary deps |
| 10:03.22 | jelly | TechieGuy, you can't translate best practices from a source-based distro to a binary-package based distro easily. The tradeoffs are different, and with a binary package distro you live with the choices your |
| 10:03.29 | *** join/#debian GuiltySpark343 (~GuiltySpa@unaffiliated/guiltyspark343) |
| 10:03.30 | TechieGuy | Oh. Then why in Arch Linux they are build-deps, but in Debian they are binary-deps? |
| 10:03.33 | jelly | package maintainer has made. |
| 10:03.44 | *** join/#debian p_quarles (~pquarles@unaffiliated/pquarles) |
| 10:03.47 | TechieGuy | I'm comparing with Arch |
| 10:03.51 | jelly | Arch is not a binary-package distro. |
| 10:03.55 | *** join/#debian riff-IRC (~riff2@unaffiliated/riff2) |
| 10:03.56 | *** join/#debian Brigo (~Brigo@40.181.60.213.dynamic.reverse-mundo-r.com) |
| 10:04.05 | jelly | not really |
| 10:04.37 | TechieGuy | It is. I use it. :/ |
| 10:04.37 | *** join/#debian OlCe (~user@amontsouris-157-1-8-123.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:04.49 | TechieGuy | pacman installs binaries |
| 10:05.11 | avu | TechieGuy: are you sure you are reading that Arch site right? Pretty sure they also need at least one of those driver packages at runtime |
| 10:05.13 | jelly | the fact they don't make a distinction between binary deps and build deps betrays the underlying structure of a source-based distro |
| 10:05.51 | jelly | in any case, I told you what to do to reduce the set of packages -- install one video driver FIRST |
| 10:06.00 | jelly | any one |
| 10:06.45 | jelly | and I also said why it's not worth bothering to do this kind of micromanagement |
| 10:07.06 | jelly | do it only if you have very little space to install. |
| 10:07.17 | jelly | or maybe if your bandwidth is very expensive |
| 10:07.52 | jelly | otherwise, best practice is just to let apt install what it wants to install |
| 10:08.22 | avu | disk space is much cheaper than human time usually |
| 10:08.30 | jelly | (and that in general includes Recommends, don't avoid them unless you know EXACTLY why your software's going to work without them) |
| 10:09.02 | jelly | avu, some providers still charge for every megabyte of traffic |
| 10:09.17 | avu | jelly: hence the "usually" |
| 10:10.21 | *** join/#debian marko1325 (~Thunderbi@217.24.24.177) |
| 10:10.35 | avu | jelly: I'm not aware of these kinds of providers being the norm anywhere except maybe mobile plans which slow down after a certain amount of data transfered but those are, again, usually not used for Debian installations |
| 10:11.39 | *** join/#debian dselect (~dselect@unaffiliated/themill/bot/dselect) |
| 10:11.56 | *** join/#debian xet7 (~xet7@85-156-127-25.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 10:12.27 | *** join/#debian CyberManifest (~CyberMani@r74-192-52-32.vctrcmta01.vctatx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net) |
| 10:12.38 | *** join/#debian winy (~vince@2a01:e0a:1c7:ac00:e067:d62:f43d:319b) |
| 10:14.22 | TechieGuy | Sometimes apt asks for confirmation, smtimes it doesn't. |
| 10:15.22 | ratrace | if you request one package installed and there's no additional deps, it won't ask for confirmation. it _will_ ask for confirmation of _removal_ even if one package. |
| 10:15.26 | jelly | it doesn't ask if the goal can be achieved by doing exactly what you told it to and nothing else |
| 10:17.24 | *** join/#debian giantmidget (~GiantMidg@65.120.92.221) |
| 10:18.11 | *** join/#debian NyanCat (~NyanCat@unaffiliated/nyancat) |
| 10:18.45 | *** join/#debian NyanCat (~NyanCat@unaffiliated/nyancat) |
| 10:19.20 | *** join/#debian NyanCat (~NyanCat@unaffiliated/nyancat) |
| 10:19.50 | *** join/#debian kn0rki (~Kn0rki@dslb-094-221-213-222.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 10:19.55 | *** join/#debian NyanCat (~NyanCat@unaffiliated/nyancat) |
| 10:20.05 | *** join/#debian cyr4x3 (~cyr4x3@139.47.125.51) |
| 10:20.29 | *** join/#debian NyanCat (~NyanCat@unaffiliated/nyancat) |
| 10:28.27 | *** join/#debian tnewman (~tnewman@1-171-215-188.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) |
| 10:29.28 | *** join/#debian Downer (downer@gateway/vpn/mullvad/downer) |
| 10:31.41 | *** join/#debian duude__ (~duude__@77.238.219.11) |
| 10:32.15 | *** join/#debian lessless (~lessless@ip.82.144.211.11.stat.volia.net) |
| 10:33.11 | lessless | I have to turn on/off my external hdd after os has fully loaded. Otherwise it doesn't see it - there is a bunch of "usb usb2-port2: Cannot enable. Maybe the USB cable is bad?" In dmesg |
| 10:33.16 | lessless | https://pastebin.com/XabWH00U |
| 10:33.22 | lessless | Is there any way around it |
| 10:36.53 | *** join/#debian darunesh (~darunesh@122.170.110.31) |
| 10:37.39 | *** join/#debian qubenix (~qubenix@66.172.11.228) |
| 10:38.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1063] by debhelper |
| 10:40.29 | jelly | lessless, maybe try a different port? usb devices and hosts have all sorts of quirks |
| 10:40.41 | ratrace | lessless: could be shitty controller on that thing. could be power options and disk going to sleep on inactivity. see if you can use hdparm to force no spindown or something |
| 10:40.58 | lessless | Interesting, thanks! |
| 10:45.20 | *** join/#debian idhugo__ (~idhugo@87-49-45-4-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net) |
| 10:47.37 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f154700821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:50.27 | *** join/#debian sinaowolabi (~Sina@102.134.114.1) |
| 10:51.31 | *** join/#debian tnewman (~tnewman@1-171-215-188.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) |
| 10:56.14 | *** join/#debian captSamIngram (~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/captsamingram) |
| 11:01.53 | *** join/#debian diogenes_ (~diogenes_@93.116.130.26) |
| 11:02.32 | *** join/#debian konrados (~konrados@unaffiliated/konrados) |
| 11:02.49 | *** join/#debian OlCe (~user@amontsouris-157-1-8-123.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 11:06.17 | *** join/#debian dpkg (~dpkg@unaffiliated/dpkg) |
| 11:06.53 | DaRock | sorry, but I really don't know where else to ask about this - technically it is a part of debian build |
| 11:07.13 | DaRock | isn't there anyone who knows whats going on? |
| 11:07.39 | *** join/#debian rabbadabba (~user@cpc142126-yead3-2-0-cust292.7-1.cable.virginm.net) |
| 11:08.20 | *** join/#debian aligator (~aligator@105.156.27.131) |
| 11:10.29 | *** join/#debian TechieGuy (~TechieGuy@unaffiliated/techieguy) |
| 11:11.16 | TechieGuy | how to install mesa in debian? |
| 11:13.16 | ratrace | DaRock: what are you talking about |
| 11:13.45 | TechieGuy | Why getting this error: https://dpaste.com/6NEK2233Q? |
| 11:14.35 | DaRock | I asked earlier |
| 11:14.48 | DaRock | just trying to use https://salsa.debian.org/raspi-team/image-specs and follow the instructions for raspi_3_buster.img and getting serious issues with the build |
| 11:15.00 | DaRock | ERROR: No runner implements step with keys create-file, contents, unless |
| 11:15.27 | ratrace | TechieGuy: do you have the necessary repo components enabled? this one is in contrib |
| 11:15.40 | TechieGuy | ratrace: Yes, I do |
| 11:16.02 | DaRock | there seems to be an issue with the build system |
| 11:18.34 | TechieGuy | ratrace: This is my sources.list: https://dpaste.com/57ZU5ADU9 |
| 11:19.34 | *** join/#debian megaTherion (~therion@unix.io) |
| 11:19.46 | megaTherion | Hi, where would I get the docker-toolbox from? (on Debian 10) |
| 11:20.50 | jelly | ,i iucode-tool |
| 11:20.52 | judd | Package iucode-tool (contrib/utils, optional) in buster/amd64: Intel processor microcode tool. Version: 2.3.1-1; Size: 61.0k; Installed: 111k; Homepage: https://gitlab.com/iucode-tool |
| 11:21.41 | ratrace | he's missing contrib |
| 11:22.09 | jelly | also Tab key tells me he's gone |
| 11:22.15 | ratrace | he's gone |
| 11:22.26 | jelly | but nor forgotten |
| 11:22.49 | ratrace | like two seconds after posting the sources list. I thought maybe accidental ctrl+w this-aint-vim-but-browser-haha-closed problem |
| 11:22.49 | jelly | he shall always live in our hearts |
| 11:23.25 | EdePopede | good news that hexchat finally did remove that keybinding in 2.14 |
| 11:24.07 | ratrace | raises a glass of schanpps. "To the Tech Guy! Perished in the deadly battle with desktop shortcuts. Skål" |
| 11:24.50 | jelly | ,v hexchat |
| 11:24.51 | judd | Package: hexchat on amd64 -- jessie: 2.10.1-1+deb8u2; stretch: 2.12.4-3; stretch-backports: 2.14.2-4~bpo9+1; buster: 2.14.2-4; bullseye: 2.14.3-5; sid: 2.14.3-5 |
| 11:24.55 | *** join/#debian igrtrrt (~igrtrrt@2804:14c:125:811b::1002) |
| 11:25.03 | jelly | a Gtk2 app, not removed!? |
| 11:25.15 | EdePopede | don't you dare . . . |
| 11:25.17 | ratrace | rc blockers, blockers everywhere ! |
| 11:25.27 | jelly | !rc bugs |
| 11:25.27 | dpkg | Release-Critical bugs are Debian bugs with critical, grave or serious severities, preventing the next release of Debian. See the graph at http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ or the lists at http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/other/all.html http://udd.debian.org/bugs.cgi?release=bullseye&patch=ign&pending=ign&merged=ign&done=ign&rc=1 . See also <rc-alert>. |
| 11:25.41 | EdePopede | my hope is that Gtk will change to a somewhat sane state in v4 |
| 11:25.42 | jelly | 176 is rather low |
| 11:26.05 | ratrace | where's that poll trigger ... methinks I'm winning |
| 11:26.06 | jelly | quick, someone make a Gtk2 compatible wrapper for Qt |
| 11:26.11 | jelly | hides |
| 11:26.12 | *** join/#debian puke (~vroom@217.138.252.184) |
| 11:26.28 | jelly | don't make me file more bugs |
| 11:26.33 | *** join/#debian Ceber (~cerberus@p508c2b39.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:27.01 | *** join/#debian thiras (~thiras@unaffiliated/thiras) |
| 11:27.12 | jelly | might be there in time for July |
| 11:27.27 | jelly | !bullseye pool 1 |
| 11:27.27 | dpkg | ! antto=2021-07-07 räträcé=2021-06-13 jëlly=2021-06-06 themÃll=2021-09-01 |
| 11:27.52 | ratrace | June, June. tight but I'll win. |
| 11:28.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1069] by debhelper |
| 11:28.14 | jelly | rhymes with Laplace |
| 11:33.59 | *** join/#debian xet7 (~xet7@85-156-127-25.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 11:35.10 | *** join/#debian MichaelOF (~michael@p200300eb8f086301d80db8971a3ef84e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:40.20 | *** join/#debian TechieGuy (~TechieGuy@unaffiliated/techieguy) |
| 11:40.37 | *** join/#debian tnewman (~tnewman@1-171-215-188.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) |
| 11:40.39 | tanja84dk | Just a small question how do I figure out at what point in rc2.d it starts things there is enabled with systemctl? Its because I need to make sure the firewall scripts are run prior |
| 11:40.41 | TechieGuy | Anyone answered my prev. ques.? |
| 11:41.13 | *** join/#debian chele_ (~chele@5.53.222.202) |
| 11:44.19 | *** join/#debian Haudegen (~quassel@91.114.49.10) |
| 11:45.30 | abrotman | TechieGuy: I believe they have, said you're missing 'contrib' from your sources. |
| 11:45.49 | TechieGuy | https://dpaste.com/57ZU5ADU9 |
| 11:45.52 | TechieGuy | I'm not |
| 11:46.24 | jelly | tanja84dk, systemd doesn't run things in predefined order, it runs as much as possible in parallel, taking care of declared dependencies |
| 11:47.22 | abrotman | TechieGuy: you only have it in backports |
| 11:47.28 | jelly | tanja84dk, if you need to set up firewall rules using a custom way instead of using eg. iptables-persistent, set them up when an interface is brought up, probably (/etc/network/if-up.d/) |
| 11:47.45 | TechieGuy | abrotman: What to add? |
| 11:47.52 | jelly | !contrib |
| 11:47.52 | dpkg | [contrib] Debian packages that contain <DFSG>-compliant software, but have dependencies not in main (possibly packaged for Debian in non-free). To get contrib packages, add lines like "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ [stretch|buster|sid] main contrib" to your /etc/apt/sources.list, then «aptitude update». Also ask me about <non-free>, <contrib list>. |
| 11:47.58 | jelly | TechieGuy, yes you are. |
| 11:48.29 | jelly | TechieGuy, add contrib next to main in EVERY .debian.org repo line |
| 11:48.55 | abrotman | lines 2,4,6,7 lack "contrib" |
| 11:49.12 | tanja84dk | jelly, thanks alot going to look into that, and yeah its my barebone iptables rules that I need to get set prior several services because they add their own rules |
| 11:49.16 | jelly | if you plan to use intel firmware, you can install that as well, but from a third, non-free section |
| 11:49.52 | jelly | ,i intel-microcode |
| 11:49.53 | judd | Package intel-microcode (non-free/admin, optional) in buster/amd64: Processor microcode firmware for Intel CPUs. Version: 3.20210216.1~deb10u1; Size: 2706.3k; Installed: 3451k; Homepage: https://github.com/intel/Intel-Linux-Processor-Microcode-Data-Files |
| 11:49.57 | jelly | !non-free sources |
| 11:49.57 | dpkg | Edit /etc/apt/sources.list, ensure that the two main Debian mirror lines end with "main contrib non-free" rather than just "main", then «apt-get update». But bear in mind that you'll be installing <non-free> software. These may have onerous terms; check the licenses. See also <sources.list>. |
| 11:50.03 | jelly | TechieGuy, ^^ |
| 11:50.13 | *** join/#debian Scotty_Trees (~Scotty_Tr@162-234-179-169.lightspeed.brhmal.sbcglobal.net) |
| 11:50.39 | jelly | IF that is your goal, you don't need to iucode-tool manually at all |
| 11:51.11 | ratrace | tanja84dk: rc.d belongs to sysvinit scripts. it's not directly managed by systemctl, I believe it's the other way around, the sysv generator creates units out of existing init scripts |
| 11:51.26 | *** join/#debian sigint (sigint@2a01:7e01::f03c:92ff:fed1:ac34) |
| 11:51.38 | TechieGuy | jelly: intel-microcode complains of intel-iucode |
| 11:51.53 | ratrace | complains how? |
| 11:52.17 | jelly | TechieGuy, if you use apt to install it, and you have correct repos enabled, it will just work |
| 11:52.58 | tanja84dk | its just prior using docker for something I just had it in /etc/rc2.d but yeah thanks alot I'm looking into it how to apply it when network gets up |
| 11:53.11 | jelly | TechieGuy, avoid downloading packages manually and trying to install them one by one, if you can use apt |
| 11:53.33 | *** join/#debian shtrb (~shtrb@unaffiliated/shtrb) |
| 11:53.45 | ratrace | The Alot always gets the thanks.... |
| 11:53.57 | jelly | the Alot is hungry. |
| 11:54.09 | ratrace | LOL |
| 11:54.11 | jelly | it eats peers. |
| 11:54.27 | ratrace | it should. pesky peers resetting connexions! |
| 11:54.56 | jelly | you don't see appels resetting connections I'll tell you that |
| 11:55.19 | jelly | or anges. |
| 11:55.31 | ratrace | emons too? |
| 11:55.44 | tanja84dk | ohh sorry I asked my bad. Just found out what my issue actually were. Just found out the if-pre-up.d actually had to restore firewall but their path makes no sense for me |
| 11:56.33 | DaRock | evidently the api for vmdb2 has changed and the build system hasn't caught up - but being a debian newb I have no idea how to go about fixing the issue |
| 11:56.43 | tanja84dk | so going to fix it that way by editing the firewall restore file in there. And thanks alot jelly for actually pointing me in a better way |
| 11:57.28 | ratrace | DaRock: maybe a specific chan @ OFTC would be more helpful? what's that, RPi image? |
| 11:57.41 | jelly | you're welcome |
| 11:57.54 | DaRock | yeah rpi image, but ore specific chan? |
| 11:58.21 | jelly | ratrace, clearly we need an alot bot just to respond to these |
| 11:58.25 | ratrace | yeah jelly, thank the alot. bring it fruits and other sacrifices. |
| 11:58.32 | DaRock | this is a debian build after all |
| 11:58.50 | echoSMILE | Hi. How to config the system to limit any process to not cross 50% of CPU's capacity ? |
| 11:58.55 | jelly | sadly, registered |
| 11:58.57 | ratrace | jelly: how many chans did you just spam with that :) |
| 11:59.02 | jelly | 120 |
| 11:59.04 | ratrace | coulda just asked ze nicksrv :) |
| 11:59.05 | tanja84dk | btw the issue were actually that it wanted to use iptables-restore from /root folder and not /etc |
| 11:59.15 | jelly | it's the channel limit on freenode |
| 11:59.41 | ratrace | DaRock: dunno.... #debian-arm perhaps? This IS proper deban and not raspbian, amirite? |
| 11:59.46 | ratrace | DaRock: https://wiki.debian.org/IRC |
| 11:59.55 | jelly | he's already there I think |
| 12:00.04 | DaRock | I'm not looking for raspbian... |
| 12:00.56 | ratrace | echoSMILE: you can use cgroups |
| 12:01.30 | ratrace | echoSMILE: infact, systemd service units can use the Limit directives. for user initiated processes, it's a bit trickier, but you can still utilize cgroups |
| 12:02.03 | ratrace | systemd.resource-control(5) for more info |
| 12:02.35 | echoSMILE | Let me check cgroups.Tks |
| 12:05.39 | *** join/#debian s8548a__ (~s8548a@unaffiliated/s8548a) |
| 12:06.19 | *** join/#debian cdown (~cdown@89.32.122.5) |
| 12:07.50 | *** join/#debian s8548a (~s8548a@unaffiliated/s8548a) |
| 12:08.26 | *** join/#debian cdown_ (~cdown@163.114.130.5) |
| 12:09.55 | *** join/#debian bolovanos_ (~bolovanos@unaffiliated/bolovanos) |
| 12:10.28 | *** join/#debian conyers (~matt_m@2601:182:cb00:3b9f:61ad:3152:e157:b65d) |
| 12:11.30 | *** join/#debian behanw (uid110099@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wrdkjslpbognyyzw) |
| 12:15.25 | *** join/#debian MagicalWizzy (~MagicalWi@150.107.173.231) |
| 12:18.32 | *** join/#debian JordiGH (jordi@octave/developer/JordiGH) |
| 12:19.53 | *** join/#debian emOne (~emOne@unaffiliated/emone) |
| 12:21.16 | *** join/#debian MoonkYang (~moonkyang@194.124.39.23) |
| 12:23.28 | *** join/#debian OlCe (~user@amontsouris-157-1-8-123.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 12:24.06 | *** join/#debian ikus060 (~ikus060@173-246-15-25.qc.cable.ebox.net) |
| 12:25.43 | *** join/#debian NetTerminalGene (~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/dontknow) |
| 12:26.58 | *** join/#debian Romarain (~Romarain@119.12.203.77.rev.sfr.net) |
| 12:28.43 | *** join/#debian tanja84dk (~tanja84dk@srv04.tanja84.dk) |
| 12:28.54 | *** join/#debian McErroneous (~crunchban@unaffiliated/lucid-lynx/x-7665531) |
| 12:29.49 | tanja84dk | uhm jelly Guess that wasnt a great idea. Now it fails bringing the network up at boot and the worst part its a vps |
| 12:30.08 | *** join/#debian zeden (~user@unaffiliated/zeden) |
| 12:30.24 | tanja84dk | guess its time to reinstall it completely :/ |
| 12:30.48 | McErroneous | hallo tanja. |
| 12:30.55 | *** join/#debian SoundShaman (~SoundSham@74.196.151.28) |
| 12:31.12 | *** join/#debian burrows (burrows@burrows.cloud) |
| 12:31.15 | *** join/#debian catman370 (~catman@unaffiliated/catman370) |
| 12:31.33 | *** join/#debian debsan (~debsan@unaffiliated/debsan) |
| 12:31.43 | jelly | tanja84dk, make the script always return successful status (exit 0) if it's preferable to fail open |
| 12:32.22 | *** join/#debian Nefertiti (~Nefertiti@unaffiliated/nefertiti) |
| 12:33.47 | *** join/#debian OlCe (~user@amontsouris-157-1-8-123.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 12:33.54 | *** join/#debian zeden (~user@unaffiliated/zeden) |
| 12:33.57 | *** join/#debian sweatsuit (~sweatsuit@unaffiliated/sweatsuit) |
| 12:34.40 | *** join/#debian chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc0a:2700:a18f:8f8b:9851:2fb5) |
| 12:35.11 | tanja84dk | Well it were more after I added the firewall ( my running and working firewall ) to the iptables-restore ( took a iptables-save ) then it wont get ip at boot ( eth0 stays down ) |
| 12:35.33 | tanja84dk | so I guess something fucked it really up at boot |
| 12:35.51 | *** join/#debian paladox (paladox@wikimedia/paladox) |
| 12:35.52 | cws | tanja84dk: Maybe this is laziness on my part, but I would recommend using something that manages these processes for you, like ufw or firewalld. |
| 12:36.03 | tanja84dk | searching in syslog right now to try figuring out what happend |
| 12:36.26 | tanja84dk | no thanks ufw is really no go |
| 12:36.40 | McErroneous | msg tanja84dk hallo |
| 12:36.40 | cws | Why's that? |
| 12:36.55 | McErroneous | same here... |
| 12:37.17 | cws | And there's also firewalld. Besides, iptables is going away. It's being replaced with nftables. |
| 12:37.23 | tanja84dk | I have always used iptables directly ( since debian 4 ) where I know what is happening |
| 12:37.37 | McErroneous | i rather try and learn a single thing and stick to it, like iptables... |
| 12:37.45 | *** join/#debian neoclust (~neoclust@mageia.lecureuil.fr) |
| 12:37.46 | cws | Well, now your firewall has locked you out. Maybe its time to try something new. |
| 12:37.53 | cws | McErroneous: See the previous about iptables being deprecated. |
| 12:38.02 | cws | Times change, things change, and you have to learn new things. |
| 12:38.09 | tanja84dk | I never trust the system ( never ) to open ports by it self its a security risk |
| 12:38.12 | McErroneous | cws: nvm... |
| 12:38.20 | cws | tanja84dk: neither ufw nor firewalld do that. |
| 12:38.35 | cws | tanja84dk: You, the admin, have to tell either one what ports are allowed. |
| 12:38.47 | cws | They're just interfaces for nftables anyway. |
| 12:38.52 | neoclust | Hi |
| 12:39.05 | tanja84dk | and that has never been best practice. cws are you also using upnp |
| 12:39.17 | cws | tanja84dk: Yes, actually, it has. And no, I am not. |
| 12:39.25 | neoclust | i need help on my debian 9 i see i have icu65 ( 65.1-1+0~20200223.8+debian9~1.gbp519cf3 ) but i don't find from where i downloaded it |
| 12:39.30 | neoclust | does someone can help me ? |
| 12:39.35 | McErroneous | cws, help to tackle the problem using iptables..., dont recommend updates or upgrades.., introducing new things..., |
| 12:39.43 | cws | tanja84dk: I REALLY suggest you don't go down the security and best-practices rabbithole with me. You are ILL prepared for that. |
| 12:39.55 | cws | McErroneous: Don't tell me how to help. Either be productive or stop typing. |
| 12:40.00 | cws | McErroneous: Thank you. |
| 12:40.07 | tanja84dk | putted cws on ignore for spam |
| 12:40.15 | cws | Be my guest :) |
| 12:40.49 | wintersky | . for sure |
| 12:41.01 | wintersky | no other way around |
| 12:41.57 | *** join/#debian genevino (~genevino@fractal.m2m.pm) |
| 12:44.58 | tanja84dk | but yeah the server will get taken down now and reinstalled as soon the backup is taken |
| 12:45.24 | *** join/#debian zeden (~user@unaffiliated/zeden) |
| 12:48.16 | tanja84dk | and also ufw is a pain when updating firewall ( everything is updated with git when new posts are needed oven ) |
| 12:48.51 | tanja84dk | and the overhead and canonibal puke in general ( burn netplan ) |
| 12:50.09 | *** join/#debian conyers (~matt_m@2601:182:cb00:3b9f:61ad:3152:e157:b65d) |
| 12:50.49 | sigint | I'd like to point that most cloud providers have firewalls/security groups that can be configured via an API, it is usually good enough to replace iptables in each instance. |
| 12:50.49 | *** join/#debian iridos (~iridos@unaffiliated/iridos) |
| 12:51.00 | sigint | No risk to get locked out of a server this way |
| 12:52.09 | ratrace | tanja84dk: using iptables directly is better than abstractions like ufw, if you have experience with iptables |
| 12:52.21 | *** join/#debian D4rk4ngel2020 (~darkangel@pop.92-184-110-85.mobile.abo.orange.fr) |
| 12:52.27 | cws | ratrace: Questionable assertion, AT BEST. |
| 12:52.39 | ratrace | you could switch to nftables if you want, but note that iptables _intraface_ uses nf in the backend unless you isntall legac |
| 12:53.09 | qman__ | cws: no, he's 100% spot on, been there, done that |
| 12:53.09 | tanja84dk | ratrace, I have always iptables directly in all years |
| 12:53.14 | jelly | TIL intraface: the face you show to an intranet |
| 12:53.15 | *** join/#debian D4rk4ngel2020 (~darkangel@pop.92-184-110-85.mobile.abo.orange.fr) |
| 12:53.16 | cws | qman__: No, he's really not. |
| 12:53.22 | ratrace | tanja84dk: me too. they'll pry them out of my cold dead hands :) |
| 12:53.24 | iridos | mmh, for some weeks now, chromium doesnt go back and forward in the history using XF86Back and XF86Forward ⦠that was so handy on the laptop to have that⦠but I cannot find in the changelog that they changed that or if there s maybe an option to re-enable it |
| 12:54.01 | qman__ | yes, he is - I went down the road of trying to learn half a dozen iptables frontends and in the end, spent a few days learning how to use iptables directly, and it made a lot more sense and worked a lot better |
| 12:54.43 | qman__ | of course, these days, nftables is the replacement, so if you're starting now, start there instead |
| 12:54.54 | ratrace | qman__: I'm not a "he". also please note I don't see what cws is typing, he's on my ignore list. and I recommend don't argue with him. you'll be verbally shat on. |
| 12:56.42 | iridos | ALT_L and left/right still works ⦠but that's by far not so nice as a single key, specially as alt_l is on the other side of the kbd and you always need both hands |
| 12:57.02 | *** join/#debian anonymip (~anonymip@unaffiliated/anonymip) |
| 12:57.55 | qman__ | not interested in personal drama, just offering experience |
| 12:58.50 | *** join/#debian emOne (~emOne@unaffiliated/emone) |
| 12:59.31 | *** join/#debian Adbray (~Adbray@2600:6c48:6f7f:d764:b487:d974:d8a9:c848) |
| 13:00.15 | *** join/#debian catman370 (~catman@unaffiliated/catman370) |
| 13:04.39 | *** join/#debian TheCreeper (~TheCreepe@unaffiliated/thecreeper) |
| 13:04.58 | tanja84dk | ratrace, But yeah I dont know if something else in the server has fucked up under upgrades so as soon the rsync backup is done then it will get formatted and then starting with the firewall and then building up again |
| 13:05.25 | EdePopede | iridos: do you still have the old version around to do a direct comparison of 2 clean profiles? if they changed it w/o further notice that would be really bad po(or)licy. |
| 13:05.50 | *** join/#debian twobitsprite (~twobitspr@107.13.62.21) |
| 13:11.41 | iridos | not as such⦠I guess it must be the security update |
| 13:11.53 | iridos | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:11.53 | iridos | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:12.13 | *** join/#debian JohnML (~john1@ip-37-201-129-30.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 13:13.09 | jelly | ,v chromium |
| 13:13.10 | judd | Package: chromium on amd64 -- jessie: 57.0.2987.98-1~deb8u1; jessie-security: 57.0.2987.98-1~deb8u1; stretch: 73.0.3683.75-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 73.0.3683.75-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 73.0.3683.75-1~deb9u1; buster: 88.0.4324.182-1~deb10u1; buster-proposed-updates: 89.0.4389.114-1~deb10u1; buster-security: 89.0.4389.114-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 89.0.4389.114-1; sid: |
| 13:13.11 | judd | 89.0.4389.114-1 |
| 13:13.15 | jelly | no 90 ? |
| 13:13.34 | iridos | well |
| 13:13.52 | iridos | my colleague, who is an arch boy calls it "debian stale" for a reason,I guess |
| 13:14.24 | *** join/#debian JohnML (~john1@ip-37-201-129-30.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 13:14.27 | jelly | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:14.30 | EdePopede | bites on his german speaking tongue... for a reason,I guess |
| 13:14.30 | EdePopede | ;) |
| 13:14.49 | jelly | (but not exactly chromium) |
| 13:16.21 | jelly | and just to make my system less googly, I'm also going to install this |
| 13:16.36 | jelly | apt install /home/jelly/Downloads/microsoft-edge-dev_91.0.825.0-1_amd64.deb |
| 13:16.54 | *** join/#debian idhugo_ (~idhugo@87-49-147-45-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net) |
| 13:16.56 | jelly | less google. More vertical tabs. What could possibly go wrong |
| 13:17.18 | *** join/#debian f-a (~f-a@151.36.53.170) |
| 13:17.33 | f-a | https://starlabs.systems/pages/laptops has anyone had any experience putting debian on these? |
| 13:18.20 | kish` | someone told me hexchat-otr plugin does not encrypt my text |
| 13:18.33 | *** join/#debian ddsys (~ddsys@unaffiliated/ddsys) |
| 13:18.45 | *** join/#debian digitalD (~dp@c-107-2-197-75.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 13:18.54 | *** join/#debian saint_ (~saint_@unaffiliated/saint-/x-0540772) |
| 13:19.14 | iridos | jelly, edgy |
| 13:19.34 | jelly | yes. Obviously 91 > 90 |
| 13:20.21 | jelly | !qotd0 |
| 13:20.21 | dpkg | <rahul> god, this keyboard is getting icky |
| 13:22.12 | *** join/#debian fd0` (~fd0@nluug/members/fd0) |
| 13:23.44 | *** join/#debian ddsys (~ddsys@unaffiliated/ddsys) |
| 13:23.45 | *** join/#debian _0xbadc0de_ (~StrongBit@185.107.12.141) |
| 13:23.58 | ratrace | iridos: I heard the term "stalebian" circulating in the arch community :) |
| 13:24.50 | shtrb | jelly, just wait for IE to come back from the dead :D |
| 13:25.26 | _0xbadc0de_ | hello guys - my issue is that I have a debian machine (debian 10) with two gpus. I have manually configured the machine to have a static ip address by editing /etc/network/interfaces |
| 13:26.05 | _0xbadc0de_ | the issue is that when I remove one of the gpus the network interface associated with the ethernet cable that connects to my lan is renamed |
| 13:26.10 | *** join/#debian conyers (~matt_m@2601:182:cb00:3b9f:61ad:3152:e157:b65d) |
| 13:26.33 | ratrace | _0xbadc0de_: eh... buggy BIOS/EFI thingy ... known thing with "predictable naming". I recommend you tie NIC name to its MAC address |
| 13:26.44 | _0xbadc0de_ | it changes from enp1s0 to enp2s0 |
| 13:27.15 | ratrace | it's a known issue with systemd's udev's "predictable naming" |
| 13:27.47 | jelly | ratrace, you could shorten it further to "stalian" or "stalin"? |
| 13:28.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1076] by debhelper |
| 13:28.06 | ratrace | the way I confiugre my systems is to revert back to ethX naming, and then I tie NIC name with its MAC using networkd and a .link unit. iirc you can also tie them using interfaces(5) |
| 13:28.40 | ratrace | jelly: and then further to alin -> alon -> alot. The Alot again :) damned beast |
| 13:28.50 | _0xbadc0de_ | yea |
| 13:28.56 | *** join/#debian mtn (~mtn@unaffiliated/mtn) |
| 13:29.31 | _0xbadc0de_ | ratrace: some help plz any dox how to revert back to ethX naming then? |
| 13:29.52 | ratrace | _0xbadc0de_: simplest is adding net.ifnames=0 to the kernel command line via grub config. |
| 13:30.11 | ratrace | but then be careful if that's a remote machine, you'll also have to adjust network configs for new names |
| 13:30.12 | _0xbadc0de_ | I am unfortunately remote |
| 13:30.48 | ratrace | if you ahve only ONE network card, then you don't really have to bind it with its MAC. eth0 won't change if a GPU is removed. eth0 and, say, eth1 MIGHT exchange on boot randomly in some cases, which is where tying it to MAC is needed. |
| 13:31.58 | _0xbadc0de_ | ratrace: I believe I do, when I do ip a I get only one network interface after lo |
| 13:32.01 | *** join/#debian bolovanos__ (~bolovanos@unaffiliated/bolovanos) |
| 13:32.05 | _0xbadc0de_ | which is enp2s0 or enp1s0 |
| 13:32.19 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f154700821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:32.38 | _0xbadc0de_ | I am just guessing here but I would think more than one network card would mean more than one network interface |
| 13:32.48 | *** join/#debian HarmtH (~harmth@82-74-153-222.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 13:32.57 | jelly | yes |
| 13:33.11 | _0xbadc0de_ | good |
| 13:33.34 | _0xbadc0de_ | then I am going to try to fix this remotely - jesus christ the chillz |
| 13:34.21 | ratrace | _0xbadc0de_: don't forget to adjust network config for "eth0", and if you have any firewall rules bound to NIC name, as well |
| 13:34.48 | _0xbadc0de_ | ratrace: OK. No special firewall rules pretty much vanilla debian |
| 13:34.50 | *** join/#debian DarthKnight (~DarthKnig@24.139.111.138) |
| 13:35.08 | _0xbadc0de_ | ratrace: how would I add net.ifnames=0 to the kernel cmd in grub cfg? |
| 13:35.54 | _0xbadc0de_ | I can only edit grub cmds at boot time |
| 13:36.47 | *** join/#debian fission6 (~textual@cpe-74-73-51-238.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 13:37.20 | *** join/#debian OlCe (~user@amontsouris-157-1-8-123.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 13:37.27 | _0xbadc0de_ | edit /etc/default/grub ? |
| 13:37.31 | *** join/#debian matrixbot_bartab (~matrixbot@155.210.31.93.rev.sfr.net) |
| 13:37.52 | _0xbadc0de_ | https://askubuntu.com/questions/19486/how-do-i-add-a-kernel-boot-parameter |
| 13:38.05 | _0xbadc0de_ | is this a solid thing to do ? |
| 13:40.15 | _0xbadc0de_ | I have changed GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet" to GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet net.ifnames=0" |
| 13:40.25 | _0xbadc0de_ | can anyone confirm my bias? |
| 13:41.34 | ratrace | _0xbadc0de_: yes, this is correct |
| 13:41.40 | _0xbadc0de_ | ratrace: the new name for the network interface will then be eth0? |
| 13:42.02 | ratrace | _0xbadc0de_: the "first" one as reported by BIOS will be eth0. "second" one eth1, etc..... since you have only one, it'll be just eth0 |
| 13:42.19 | _0xbadc0de_ | OK. so no need to tie to MAC addr then? |
| 13:42.45 | ratrace | no need in this case, but it'd be future proofing if you did. |
| 13:43.27 | ratrace | mind you, even if you didn't, it's only about buggy BIOSes where the ethX order changes on boot, so it's not a rule or mandatory: just a wise, future-proof precaution |
| 13:43.47 | *** join/#debian ddsys (~ddsys@unaffiliated/ddsys) |
| 13:43.51 | ratrace | like the one you have where PCI topolgy changes when you remove a GPU :) |
| 13:44.13 | _0xbadc0de_ | https://0bin.net/paste/05mc+bPo#JAJpLwvgYaCgVj7frHwgXlrdt8GwEuX8MlYc9cBhh1k |
| 13:44.50 | _0xbadc0de_ | ratrace: OK but let me just get this one working first and then I do it |
| 13:45.11 | ratrace | sure, step by step |
| 13:45.23 | _0xbadc0de_ | is the paste lookig ok to you? |
| 13:45.42 | _0xbadc0de_ | looking* (damn keyboards) |
| 13:46.08 | *** join/#debian OlCe (~user@amontsouris-157-1-8-123.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 13:47.22 | ratrace | _0xbadc0de_: yes ... oh, don't forget to run /sbin/update-grub when you changed /etc/default/grub |
| 13:47.31 | _0xbadc0de_ | ratrace: gotcha! |
| 13:48.06 | _0xbadc0de_ | sudo update-grub works too? |
| 13:48.21 | ratrace | yes |
| 13:48.26 | *** join/#debian tnewman (~tnewman@1-171-215-188.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) |
| 13:49.18 | _0xbadc0de_ | in that post in stackoverflow they claim you should inspect your changes with cat /proc/cmdline |
| 13:49.34 | _0xbadc0de_ | if I do it after sudo update-grub I see the following |
| 13:49.35 | _0xbadc0de_ | BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-5.10.0-0.bpo.5-amd64 root=UUID=3f3e2bfe-6986-43df-8747-4aa80eef34c2 ro quiet |
| 13:50.14 | *** join/#debian lead_pipe23 (~Lead@38.146.84.50) |
| 13:50.16 | cws | /proc/cmdline |
| 13:50.23 | cws | is what the current environment was booted from. |
| 13:50.31 | cws | That will not show you what will boot next time. |
| 13:50.31 | _0xbadc0de_ | hmm ok |
| 13:50.33 | *** join/#debian Razva (524c76df@unaffiliated/razva) |
| 13:50.40 | _0xbadc0de_ | so we are all ready, can I reboot? |
| 13:50.41 | cws | /boot/grub/grub.cfg |
| 13:50.54 | jelly | if this is an important setting that you want applied regardless of the menu entry chosen for boot, then put it in GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX= instead of the _DEFAULT setting |
| 13:51.05 | *** join/#debian the-wailers (~the-waile@unaffiliated/the-wailers) |
| 13:51.12 | *** join/#debian ztx (~ztx@89.232.195.187) |
| 13:51.30 | *** part/#debian the-wailers (~the-waile@unaffiliated/the-wailers) |
| 13:51.36 | *** part/#debian Razva (524c76df@unaffiliated/razva) |
| 13:51.45 | _0xbadc0de_ | cws: I see it in there |
| 13:51.52 | _0xbadc0de_ | I am going to reboot |
| 13:51.58 | jelly | I'd say having correct iface names, and therefore a working network, would be important |
| 13:52.09 | _0xbadc0de_ | and may god help me |
| 13:52.37 | _0xbadc0de_ | YES IT WORKS |
| 13:52.43 | jelly | !win _0xbadc0de_ |
| 13:52.44 | dpkg | Congratulations, _0xbadc0de_! You have won second prize in a beauty contest! |
| 13:52.44 | _0xbadc0de_ | tnx |
| 13:52.48 | ratrace | "You can always walk to it and fix on the console." -- Satan |
| 13:53.08 | jelly | s/walk/lights-out-management/ |
| 13:53.26 | *** join/#debian pepee (~pepee@unaffiliated/pepee) |
| 13:56.01 | *** join/#debian Tom01 (~tom@a89-183-7-179.net-htp.de) |
| 13:57.30 | *** join/#debian conyers (~matt_m@2601:182:cb00:3b9f:61ad:3152:e157:b65d) |
| 13:58.33 | ratrace | ipmi > ilo *runs* |
| 14:00.07 | *** join/#debian Tom01 (~tom@a89-183-7-179.net-htp.de) |
| 14:00.41 | jelly | any lom what works |
| 14:02.58 | _0xbadc0de_ | ratrace: and after removing one of the gpus everything still working |
| 14:03.39 | ratrace | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:04.56 | ratrace | this is the explanation of the problem, btw: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/3715 |
| 14:09.05 | *** join/#debian diniwed (~gavron@ool-44c21938.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 14:11.17 | *** join/#debian Mister00X (quassel@gateway/vpn/mullvad/mister00x) |
| 14:13.37 | *** join/#debian nebunez (~nebunez@c-73-171-175-205.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 14:13.51 | *** join/#debian yanmaani (~yanmaani@gateway/tor-sasl/yanmaani) |
| 14:15.56 | *** join/#debian Spr1ng (~Spr1ng@unaffiliated/spr1ng) |
| 14:16.09 | *** join/#debian mydogsnameisrudy (~mydogsnam@unaffiliated/mydogsnameisrudy) |
| 14:19.14 | *** join/#debian donpepe (~donpepe@51B7169C.dsl.pool.telekom.hu) |
| 14:20.00 | *** join/#debian sinaowolabi (~Sina@102.134.114.1) |
| 14:20.17 | *** join/#debian d1cor (~d1cor@unaffiliated/d1cor) |
| 14:32.07 | *** join/#debian tejr (~tejr@fsf/member/tyrmored) |
| 14:32.24 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f154700821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:33.31 | *** join/#debian folti7777 (~folti@93-141-32-102.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 14:34.38 | *** join/#debian badsektor (~badsektor@unaffiliated/badsektor) |
| 14:34.50 | *** join/#debian cdown (~cdown@163.114.130.1) |
| 14:38.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1084] by debhelper |
| 14:40.42 | *** join/#debian shailangsa (~shailangs@host86-186-132-20.range86-186.btcentralplus.com) |
| 14:41.16 | *** join/#debian format_c (~format_c@unaffiliated/format-c/x-8927423) |
| 14:43.29 | *** join/#debian citypw (~citypw@gateway/tor-sasl/citypw) |
| 14:44.35 | *** join/#debian dunc4n (dunc4nmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-vktvwgjpiahqvjbl) |
| 14:45.04 | *** join/#debian gelignite (~gelignite@55d425fd.access.ecotel.net) |
| 14:50.21 | *** join/#debian rsx (~rsx@ppp-188-174-146-224.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 15:02.29 | *** join/#debian diogenes_ (~diogenes_@188.208.121.243) |
| 15:05.04 | *** join/#debian towo` (~towo@unaffiliated/towo/x-4064351) |
| 15:06.40 | *** join/#debian ddsys (~ddsys@unaffiliated/ddsys) |
| 15:10.34 | *** join/#debian alex11 (~alex11@bras-base-mtrlpq5302w-grc-35-76-71-164-44.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 15:14.05 | *** join/#debian towo` (~towo@unaffiliated/towo/x-4064351) |
| 15:14.44 | *** join/#debian ChmEarl (~chmearl@unaffiliated/prymar56) |
| 15:16.50 | *** join/#debian OlCe (~user@amontsouris-157-1-8-123.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 15:19.22 | *** join/#debian de-facto_ (~de-facto@gateway/tor-sasl/de-facto) |
| 15:20.33 | *** join/#debian sfenik (~sfenik@78.156.14.175) |
| 15:22.19 | *** join/#debian is0ke3 (~is0ke3@unaffiliated/isokee) |
| 15:23.26 | *** join/#debian nitefall (~thewellin@sea.wellingtonnet.net) |
| 15:27.41 | ratrace | yay, DSA-4893-1 finally landed! *runs to update xorgs* |
| 15:27.58 | *** join/#debian nicopok (~nicopok@gateway/tor-sasl/nicopok) |
| 15:32.47 | *** join/#debian BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@2a02:8010:66b7:dddd:ec39:9951:69ec:d078) |
| 15:32.59 | *** join/#debian nicopok (~nicopok@gateway/tor-sasl/nicopok) |
| 15:35.11 | *** join/#debian winy (~vince@pop.92-184-105-10.mobile.abo.orange.fr) |
| 15:38.41 | *** join/#debian evilbug (54e88bfe@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.84.232.139.254) |
| 15:39.07 | *** join/#debian Filohuhum (~filohuhum@gateway/tor-sasl/filohuhum) |
| 15:40.36 | *** join/#debian OlCe (~user@amontsouris-157-1-8-123.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 15:41.40 | *** join/#debian LtL (~ltl@unaffiliated/ltl) |
| 15:45.54 | *** join/#debian martinus__ (~martin@2.24.202.77.rev.sfr.net) |
| 15:46.51 | *** join/#debian coot (~coot@37.30.50.130.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) |
| 15:49.42 | *** join/#debian winy (~vince@pop.92-184-105-10.mobile.abo.orange.fr) |
| 15:49.57 | *** join/#debian chris__ (~chris@2a01:4b00:85f4:7d00:c84f:822a:cd7f:8098) |
| 15:50.01 | *** join/#debian shtrb (~shtrb@unaffiliated/shtrb) |
| 15:51.57 | *** join/#debian s8548a_ (~s8548a@unaffiliated/s8548a) |
| 15:52.40 | *** join/#debian is0ke3 (~is0ke3@unaffiliated/isokee) |
| 15:53.58 | *** join/#debian rustyshackleford (uid236774@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hmeiapouwhusbbrt) |
| 15:54.59 | *** join/#debian martinus__ (~martin@2.24.202.77.rev.sfr.net) |
| 15:57.42 | *** join/#debian supercilious (~thomas@aenea.engineeringvirtue.net) |
| 15:59.14 | *** join/#debian format_c (~format_c@unaffiliated/format-c/x-8927423) |
| 16:01.41 | *** join/#debian XsiSec (~xsisec@h-155-4-132-3.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 16:04.51 | *** join/#debian unluckyshrubbery (~unluckysh@unaffiliated/unluckyshrubbery) |
| 16:10.04 | *** join/#debian tnewman (~tnewman@1-171-215-188.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) |
| 16:10.42 | *** join/#debian ztx (~ztx@89.232.195.187) |
| 16:14.42 | *** join/#debian tnewman (~tnewman@1-171-215-188.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) |
| 16:17.42 | *** join/#debian Randolf (~randolf@184.70.10.189) |
| 16:18.49 | *** join/#debian zoitub (~quassel@2603-800c-0501-c362-315b-855c-f06c-0d05.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 16:19.09 | *** join/#debian fearnothing (~fearnothi@unaffiliated/fearnothing) |
| 16:21.13 | *** join/#debian freshtube (~freshtube@185.242.6.196) |
| 16:21.56 | *** join/#debian freshtube (~freshtube@94.46.24.35) |
| 16:23.20 | *** join/#debian f-a (~f-a@151.34.29.133) |
| 16:24.57 | *** join/#debian czesmir (~stefan@aedm178.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 16:25.45 | *** join/#debian moldorcoder7 (~moldorcod@206.166.251.59) |
| 16:30.46 | *** join/#debian v01d4lph4 (~v01d4lph4@27.57.103.213) |
| 16:32.22 | *** join/#debian haijuno (~haijuno@2600:1700:3db0:2540:c18a:3e71:bad3:ea79) |
| 16:33.34 | ratrace | anyone running Xorg via startx? Haven't done that in a long while and I forgot all the configuration deets but .... for reason that's beyond me running startx as non-root here, still results with Xorg running as root. I looked for a dangling setuid bin or something ... didn't find any. wth? |
| 16:34.23 | ratrace | eh wait ...... /usr/lib/xorg/Xorg.wrap wasn't looking into /usr/lib before |
| 16:34.50 | *** part/#debian f-a (~f-a@151.34.29.133) |
| 16:35.16 | sney | yep, /usr/lib for binaries that would not normally be called directly by the user |
| 16:35.39 | sney | binaries and scripts that is |
| 16:36.11 | sney | has typed /usr/lib/nagios/plugins so many times it's practically muscle memory |
| 16:36.13 | ratrace | so now what. I heard some folks here running xorgs as regular users . short of removing the setuid ... what's the trick here? |
| 16:37.06 | ratrace | on gentoo you'd simply install xorg wihtout the setuid bit and had to deal with permissions manually, so that part I know what to expect. I'm just not familiar with the "run xorg without setuid bit on debian" part |
| 16:38.11 | *** join/#debian ghoti (~paul@dynamic-64-118-29-220.wtccommunications.ca) |
| 16:39.41 | ratrace | oh I see.... I have xserver-xorg-legacy installed for some reason..... |
| 16:40.12 | somiaj | I only use startx, and the non setuid xorg works nice |
| 16:40.53 | somiaj | yup, the legacy server will not do that, and for those who use display managers, I still think the displaymanager runs as root, though maybe it runs as some non-root user and then calls an authentication command |
| 16:40.56 | ratrace | somiaj: yes yes, I just realized that I had xserver-xorg-legacy installed which installs teh setuid xorg, as of stretch. NO idea how that ended up on my system. this was a fresh buster installation |
| 16:41.17 | somiaj | ratrace: aptitude why packagename? |
| 16:41.29 | somiaj | maybe some dm depends on it |
| 16:41.32 | ratrace | that would require I first aptitude installed aptitude :) |
| 16:41.49 | ratrace | somiaj: I removed the package, it removed nothing else. so whatever pulled it in, came as recommended or suggested, by teh installer |
| 16:41.51 | sney | then apt rdepends xserver-xorg-legacy and parse the list with your eyeballs |
| 16:41.55 | somiaj | yea, the why and search features of aptitude ahve me end up installing it when I don't need it. |
| 16:42.21 | ratrace | seems like xserver-xorg recommends it |
| 16:42.39 | *** join/#debian cdown (~cdown@163.114.130.1) |
| 16:42.43 | somiaj | ratrace: probably because of all the issues some users had with non setuid xorg |
| 16:43.00 | somiaj | when it first rolled out in testing, there was lots of people having trouble with xorg working like they were use to |
| 16:43.22 | somiaj | I personally never ran into any issues, though I only use a simple window manager, I think display managers and desktops had more issues |
| 16:44.13 | *** join/#debian karlpinc (~user@karlpinc-net.karlpinc.com) |
| 16:44.37 | ratrace | somiaj: so buster reverted the change from stretch? |
| 16:44.50 | somiaj | hmm, seems due that recommend I have it installed as well, guess I really wasn't using non setuid |
| 16:44.52 | ratrace | anyhooo..... mmmmmmmh. rootless xorgs. purrrrrs like a kitten. I better feed it. |
| 16:45.42 | somiaj | https://packages.debian.org/stretch/xserver-xorg -- seems it was recommended in stretch too, I think this was due to issues in testing, and the devs figured most wouldn't care and less issues (or reconfigurations) to keep xorg setuid |
| 16:46.34 | somiaj | Okay, removed that package too, now when I get back to my office and run xorg again, I'll be setup |
| 16:46.57 | ratrace | somiaj: but... https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/amd64/release-notes/ch-whats-new.en.html#x-no-longer-requires-root |
| 16:47.43 | *** join/#debian M1zuki (~iridium@unaffiliated/m1zuki) |
| 16:47.46 | karlpinc | Just dropped in, after getting the X security updates. Is there a package I should be removing? |
| 16:48.11 | ratrace | karlpinc: no. I switched to rootless xorg and _I_ had to remove the legacy xorg thingy that was setuid |
| 16:48.45 | karlpinc | ratrace: I see. (Maybe I should too, but don't want to have to think.... :) |
| 16:48.53 | ratrace | otherwise, just regular upgrade for DSA-4893-1 |
| 16:49.25 | somiaj | how did you test if xorg was setuid or not, just ps? |
| 16:49.52 | ratrace | find -perm -4000 |
| 16:50.07 | ratrace | I didn't know _which_ bin/file would be setuid so I was looking for all of them |
| 16:50.54 | ratrace | then I found the /usr/lib/xorg/Xorg.wrap which belongs to xserver-xorg-legacy and then I remembered about that package and setuid xorg |
| 16:50.57 | *** join/#debian idhugo_ (~idhugo@87.49.147.45) |
| 16:52.09 | somiaj | I meant how were you testing if the current running xorg was setuid or not, anyways, seems lightdm runs xorg as root, so using a dm (which problably most do) probably makes it so the legacy package is a reasonable recommended package |
| 16:52.31 | ratrace | somiaj: ah I just greped ps for xorg and saw it running as root |
| 16:53.05 | ratrace | yes lightdm will run it as root. I'm using startx, and that's why I was confused at first. seems like _only_ gdm will run rootless xorg, among all the DMs |
| 16:53.57 | ratrace | essentially I just switched from lightdm to startx today, took the opportunity of xorg update + some firmware updates, so I figured if I'm rebooting, let's try out startx |
| 16:54.55 | somiaj | I do like how systemd with startx replaces the tty it runs on, which makes it so you can't ctrl-alt-f? to get back tot he tty, though quiting/ending your window manger will drop the user back into an open shell (so one advantage of a dm) |
| 16:55.15 | somiaj | though lock screens and disabling things like ctrl-alt-backspace (which is by default) will protect against that |
| 16:55.52 | karlpinc | I'm running Xorg from a custom systemd config, to run it on an additional vt to get me a gui on my headless box. I don't suppose there's some special username or some such if I did not want to run X as root? |
| 16:55.53 | ratrace | and having a wraper for startx that basically exits the login shell when startx drops |
| 16:55.54 | somiaj | and I guess if they have access to quite your wm, they probably have access to run a terminal, so same difference. |
| 16:56.29 | ratrace | indeed. physical access to the console usually means game over |
| 16:56.33 | somiaj | karlpinc: I would just create a user for that, the whole point of non-setuid xorg is any user can run it, they just may need to be some groups for hardware access. |
| 16:57.01 | karlpinc | somiaj: Righto then. I'll put it on the list. ;) Thanks. |
| 16:57.25 | jmcnaught | The hardware access is managed by logind as far as I know |
| 16:57.37 | ratrace | I already run firefox, steam and some other programs as other users (+ apparmor profile on them), but xorg is .... xorg. I want, with upgrade to Bullseye, to switch from i3 to sway, and go full wayland, and leave xorg only for steam and whever needs it, run as separate, apparmored users. |
| 16:57.48 | ratrace | total separation, only sharing the (eh, still vulnerable) kernel |
| 16:58.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1078] by debhelper |
| 16:58.34 | *** join/#debian fearnothing (~fearnothi@unaffiliated/fearnothing) |
| 16:59.50 | *** join/#debian moldorcoder7 (~moldorcod@206.166.251.59) |
| 17:01.04 | *** join/#debian KhazAkar (uid144674@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-behhcohneujeguwr) |
| 17:01.25 | *** join/#debian Stardroid (uid4060@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rwjspazntvxxakvb) |
| 17:04.50 | *** join/#debian sfenik_ (~sfenik@78.156.14.175) |
| 17:05.46 | *** join/#debian chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc0a:2700:a18f:8f8b:9851:2fb5) |
| 17:06.04 | *** join/#debian Iamahuman4 (~noname@wikipedia/jukeboksi) |
| 17:07.24 | *** join/#debian XenGi (~quassel@unaffiliated/xengi) |
| 17:08.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1084] by debhelper |
| 17:08.49 | *** join/#debian conta1 (Thunderbir@gateway/vpn/mullvad/conta) |
| 17:12.48 | *** join/#debian lemur (~l3m@cable-static-7-246.breitband.ch) |
| 17:15.07 | *** join/#debian oxek (~oxek@unaffiliated/oxek) |
| 17:15.47 | *** join/#debian ddsys (~ddsys@unaffiliated/ddsys) |
| 17:16.46 | *** join/#debian xaero (~xaero@irc.stevesoltys.com) |
| 17:16.47 | *** join/#debian Heston (~name@d173-183-187-148.abhsia.telus.net) |
| 17:17.04 | xaero | hi, does debian maintain a list of fixed user/group ids for packages? |
| 17:17.52 | *** join/#debian kristijonas (~kristijon@78-56-32-39.static.zebra.lt) |
| 17:19.35 | oxek | xaero: no, there isn't a single place that would document all possible uid/gid created by packages |
| 17:19.48 | ratrace | I sometimes wish there were. I miss that from FreeBSD ports |
| 17:19.56 | xaero | ratrace: yes++ |
| 17:19.59 | *** join/#debian AskerX (d98acf85@217.138.207.133) |
| 17:20.21 | karlpinc | xaero: There is a list of "base usernames/groups", but I can't recall where.... |
| 17:20.32 | xaero | oxek: if a package has a fixed uid/gid - would it be in the package tarball w/patches, rules etc? |
| 17:20.47 | *** join/#debian kristijonas (~kristijon@78-56-32-39.static.zebra.lt) |
| 17:21.13 | karlpinc | xaero: I'd be in the "debian" directory -- somewhere. Probably in the pre-install* stuff. |
| 17:21.24 | xaero | karlpinc: thanks |
| 17:21.34 | oxek | xaero: not in tarball, but in the downloaded .deb |
| 17:21.56 | karlpinc | xaero: I use sources.debian.org for that sort of stuff. |
| 17:23.06 | xaero | karlpinc: thanks , i was using salsa but sources.debian.org works just as good :-) |
| 17:23.12 | karlpinc | xaero: Found it. zless /usr/share/doc/base-passwd/users-and-groups.txt.gz |
| 17:23.24 | xaero | thanks karlpinc |
| 17:24.11 | *** join/#debian kristijonas (~kristijon@78-56-32-39.static.zebra.lt) |
| 17:26.33 | somiaj | https://wiki.debian.org/SystemGroups -- there is that as well, though note that default/base might depend on what packages you install, for instance www-data won't be created unless you install a webserver |
| 17:27.42 | karlpinc | xaero: (Top of the document says that, as a rule, uids/gids not in the base-passwd package should be obtained dynamically. So all you can count on is the user/group names.) |
| 17:27.51 | *** join/#debian conyers (~matt_m@2601:182:cb00:3b9f:61ad:3152:e157:b65d) |
| 17:29.21 | *** join/#debian Haudegen (~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at) |
| 17:30.01 | *** join/#debian nicopok (~nicopok@gateway/tor-sasl/nicopok) |
| 17:32.51 | *** join/#debian wintersky (uid453465@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vntejmrbtcairiho) |
| 17:37.18 | *** join/#debian nicopok (~nicopok@gateway/tor-sasl/nicopok) |
| 17:37.40 | *** join/#debian ztx (~ztx@89.232.195.187) |
| 17:38.38 | *** join/#debian supercilious (~thomas@aenea.engineeringvirtue.net) |
| 17:39.17 | *** join/#debian vonsyd0w (~vonsyd0w@unaffiliated/vonsyd0w) |
| 17:40.29 | *** join/#debian zzr (~Administr@115.206.247.210) |
| 17:40.41 | ratrace | now this is weird. I just had vim lock up in a tmux panel. kill -9 vim's_pid did nothing. tmux seemed locked too, couldn't switch panes, but I _could_ ctrl+b and :kill-session |
| 17:41.09 | ratrace | that I couldn't kill -9 that vim is a bit worrying |
| 17:41.36 | sney | some i/o timeout? trying to read a file from a e.g. missing nfs share and waiting forever? |
| 17:42.07 | *** join/#debian cosimone (~user@2001:b07:ae5:db26:a519:ab6a:ee85:35f2) |
| 17:43.18 | *** join/#debian is0ke3 (~is0ke3@unaffiliated/isokee) |
| 17:47.18 | ratrace | i/o timeout is what I was thining about, but there's no clues of it in dmesg or journal. it's ZFS, production server |
| 17:48.49 | *** join/#debian RandolfR (~randolf@184.70.10.188) |
| 17:48.53 | karlpinc | I blame a power struggle between the vim gods and the emacs gods. |
| 17:49.11 | *** join/#debian Tobbi (~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi) |
| 17:49.16 | somiaj | Isn't emacs on the outs due to all the rms drama....*hides* |
| 17:49.37 | somiaj | Though I think the result of the debian vote was decent, just abstain from making any public comment and stay out of it. |
| 17:49.48 | *** join/#debian NGC3982 (~henrik@178.174.188.134) |
| 17:51.24 | *** join/#debian Ekis (~Ekis@cpe74da881c916d-cm30b7d4bb2eb0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 17:51.29 | *** join/#debian greycat (~greg@209.142.155.49) |
| 17:51.58 | ratrace | somiaj: yeah. but now that'll draw ire of BOTH camps, instead of just one :) |
| 17:52.02 | *** join/#debian Heston (~name@d173-183-187-148.abhsia.telus.net) |
| 17:52.04 | *** join/#debian pepee (~pepee@unaffiliated/pepee) |
| 17:52.07 | *** join/#debian wallacer (~quassel@2001:bc8:1824:9a:cafe:babe:b00b:aa06) |
| 17:52.11 | *** join/#debian fearnothing (~fearnothi@unaffiliated/fearnothing) |
| 17:52.43 | *** join/#debian bicknell (~bicknell@46-126-180-21.dynamic.hispeed.ch) |
| 17:55.46 | *** join/#debian uvolmer (~uvolmer@2001-4dd0-212c-82-5acc-6b0b-da9c-d52c.ipv6dyn.netcologne.de) |
| 17:56.43 | oxek | hopefully both camps will instead take the whining elsewhere |
| 17:58.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1091] by debhelper |
| 17:58.15 | ratrace | I was surprised there was no drama here yestarday. |
| 17:59.08 | oxek | there was no drama here, nor elsewhere, because a result that says "We're not gonna get involved" doesn't really invite drama. |
| 17:59.47 | ratrace | well some people would construe the abstination as silent approval. |
| 18:00.04 | *** join/#debian winy (~vince@78.197.243.96) |
| 18:00.52 | *** join/#debian wallacer (~quassel@2001:bc8:1824:9a:cafe:babe:b00b:aa06) |
| 18:04.22 | oxek | ratrace: you mean these people? https://0x0.st/-Axe.png |
| 18:05.26 | KNERD | LOL |
| 18:05.39 | *** join/#debian silverwhitefish (~hidden@47.202.100.201) |
| 18:06.46 | ratrace | heh |
| 18:07.34 | ratrace | insert obligatory Martin Niemöller quote .... |
| 18:07.42 | *** join/#debian paladox_ (uid373195@wikimedia/paladox) |
| 18:10.47 | *** join/#debian trysten (~user@unaffiliated/trysten) |
| 18:12.05 | *** join/#debian Hrym (~oaidghejr@46.246.24.30) |
| 18:12.36 | *** join/#debian sinaowolabi (~Sina@105.112.148.28) |
| 18:12.42 | *** join/#debian macrobat (~beep@h-201-158.A785.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 18:13.06 | *** join/#debian pepee (~pepee@unaffiliated/pepee) |
| 18:16.59 | cheche | Given that new Debian versions use a random device name for the network interface (enp2s0,enp1s10) instead of eth0. is there a way to tell etherwake which default interface to use? |
| 18:17.44 | cheche | be fore I could run "etherwake 11:22:33:44:55:66) |
| 18:17.54 | rudi_s | cheche: You can change the name. |
| 18:17.57 | sney | it's not random, it's based on pci locations, so it is more predictable than the previous eth0 approach which was susceptible to race conditions. |
| 18:18.09 | sney | but you can use a systemd.link file to define a name based on the mac address if you want |
| 18:18.21 | cheche | now I need to use: "etherwak -i enp2s0 11:22:33:44:55:66" |
| 18:18.26 | sney | https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.link.html |
| 18:18.30 | rudi_s | sney: Sadly that's not really true. I got BIOS updates which changed the names ... |
| 18:18.43 | rudi_s | But yeah, use /etc/systemd/network/10-$x.link |
| 18:18.49 | sney | example 2 on this freedesktop page is what you want |
| 18:18.57 | cheche | sney: if you admin several different workstations, servers looks random to me. |
| 18:19.03 | rudi_s | Personally I switched to e0, e1, e2, ... (ethernet) and w0, w1, .. (WLAN). |
| 18:19.05 | sney | rudi_s: I said "more predictable" not "infallible" |
| 18:19.24 | greycat | The old way was actually *more* predictable on machines that have precisely one interface. |
| 18:19.26 | rudi_s | sney: I wouldn't agree that they are more predicatable, but no need do debate this. |
| 18:19.30 | ratrace | the "predictable naming" scheme is broken. revert to ethX and bind it to MAC |
| 18:19.50 | ratrace | just earlier today we had a user that got different NIC name when s/he removed a GPU |
| 18:19.52 | cheche | greycat: and ratrace: +1000 |
| 18:20.01 | rudi_s | Using eth* is problematic because it's still susceptible to race conditions. So I use the shorter version. |
| 18:20.02 | *** join/#debian Iamahuman4 (~noname@wikipedia/jukeboksi) |
| 18:20.02 | ratrace | (which is an open bug report on systemd GH btw, for several years now) |
| 18:20.20 | ratrace | rudi_s: it's not if you bind it to a MAC addr |
| 18:20.25 | greycat | I went with lan0 because I'm unsure what happens if you try to use eth* as your custom names under the new scheme. |
| 18:20.26 | *** join/#debian xet7 (~xet7@85-156-127-25.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 18:20.36 | ratrace | rudi_s: in fact ... you don't even have to revert to ethX. you can use whatever name you want and bind it to a MAC, via networkd .link unit |
| 18:20.44 | rudi_s | ratrace: I read it's problemtic with systemd's link files at least. |
| 18:20.49 | ratrace | I think it's possible even via interfaces(5) |
| 18:20.58 | sney | plus with a custom name it's clear at a glance that it's something you defined, rather than a change in automatic kernel behavior |
| 18:21.01 | ratrace | rudi_s: I've been doing this for our fleet of servers for years now. it's fine. |
| 18:21.03 | rudi_s | ratrace: I know (see above). I use e0, e1, e2. |
| 18:21.19 | karlpinc | cheche: For info on the naming schemes, etc., see: https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/amd64/release-notes/ch-whats-new.en.html#new-interface-names and the link it contains. And https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkInterfaceNames?highlight=%28device%29%7C%28names%29#THE_.22PREDICTABLE_NAMES.22_SCHEME |
| 18:21.22 | ratrace | rudi_s: yea, you can force/use whatever name you want |
| 18:21.37 | ratrace | greycat: btw ... is your xorg running as non-root? |
| 18:21.41 | *** join/#debian w-oertl (~wolfgang@cm56-194-159.liwest.at) |
| 18:21.43 | cheche | but etherwake have eth0 as default |
| 18:22.06 | *** join/#debian d1cor (~d1cor@unaffiliated/d1cor) |
| 18:22.19 | greycat | greg 2558 2557 1 Mar26 tty1 10:34:00 /usr/lib/xorg/Xorg |
| 18:22.49 | oxek | that's an unusual ordering of things |
| 18:23.03 | ratrace | greycat: k. because I today switched from lightdm to startx and was confused why xorg was still running as root. the culprit was xorg-server-legacy package that somehow got installed, probably as "recommended" by xorg-server |
| 18:23.53 | greycat | ratrace: it's installed here too, but not active. Maybe some config file like Xwrapper.config? |
| 18:24.23 | oxek | it's running as root here as well |
| 18:24.28 | greycat | hmm, comment at the bottom of that file says dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg-legacy |
| 18:24.59 | ratrace | greycat: I'm not familiar with a config file, just that the package installs /usr/lib/xorg/Xorg.wrap and that was being run |
| 18:25.09 | ratrace | removed the package, all is fine, I'm on rootless xorg now. :) |
| 18:25.24 | greycat | ratrace: I have it, but it's not used. Perhaps because of whatever dpkg-reconfigure says. |
| 18:25.44 | greycat | Speaking of which, is there a command that can dump to stdout what the dpkg-reconfigure state of a package is? |
| 18:25.49 | ratrace | possible. do you know if there's a alternatives selection? I couldn't find any |
| 18:28.57 | jmcnaught | greycat: debconf-get-selections in debconf-utils maybe? |
| 18:30.02 | *** join/#debian Haudegen (~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at) |
| 18:30.34 | greycat | Jeez, that dumps ALL of the packages, not just the one I gave as an argument on the command. |
| 18:32.08 | greycat | well, it only shows two settings(?) for xserver-xorg-legacy ... no idea whether one of them is responsible for the difference between ratrace's system and mine |
| 18:32.44 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f154700821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:32.52 | *** join/#debian otisolsen70_ (~otisolsen@xd4ed80b5.cust.hiper.dk) |
| 18:33.13 | *** join/#debian Marbug (~Marbug@94-226-144-213.access.telenet.be) |
| 18:33.34 | oxek | to confirm, lightdm requires x server to run as root, correct? |
| 18:33.57 | greycat | More like, lightdm does not know how to run the X server as you. |
| 18:34.14 | greycat | I think the only DM that can do it in Debian is gdm3. |
| 18:34.15 | *** join/#debian haijuno (~haijuno@2600:1700:3db0:2540:1360:fde:e999:625f) |
| 18:34.37 | *** join/#debian conyers (~matt_m@2601:182:cb00:3b9f:61ad:3152:e157:b65d) |
| 18:35.38 | *** join/#debian sinaowolabi (~Sina@102.134.114.1) |
| 18:37.09 | ratrace | yeah, only gdm |
| 18:37.19 | greycat | ratrace: Xorg.wrap(1) seems to be the only documentation there is, and it says it "will autodetect if root rights are necessary". |
| 18:37.44 | ratrace | well, it autodetected wrong. |
| 18:38.52 | ratrace | I think the only problem here is xserver-xorg-legacy being "Recommends" of xserver-xorg. if anything it should be a dep of DM that requires setuid xorg |
| 18:39.04 | ratrace | or not even that |
| 18:39.32 | *** join/#debian paladox_ (sid373195@wikimedia/paladox) |
| 18:39.50 | ratrace | I usually run with no-install-recommends, but this was pulled in by the installer |
| 18:40.01 | greycat | Back in ... stretch(?) ... it was separated out and offered for chipsets that require it. I don't know how the autodetection works. Or which chipsets need it. Probably any that can't do KMS. |
| 18:42.19 | greycat | https://wiki.debian.org/NewInStretch#Upgrade_issues |
| 18:42.26 | *** join/#debian paladox_ (sid373195@wikimedia/paladox) |
| 18:43.27 | ratrace | hrm... |
| 18:43.34 | Hrym | Hi! I'm trying out Bullseye on one of my laptops, and are now trying to understand why suspend hangs when a file is open on a autofs+nfs share, this was not happening on Buster. Have I missed something obvious? |
| 18:43.38 | rudi_s | I use startx which works fine with rootless-X (if systemd-logind is used). |
| 18:43.53 | oxek | !debian-next |
| 18:43.54 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc |
| 18:43.56 | oxek | Hrym: ^ |
| 18:44.03 | Hrym | oxek: Ok, thanks. |
| 18:45.27 | *** join/#debian catman370 (~catman@unaffiliated/catman370) |
| 18:47.22 | *** join/#debian oerheks (~OerHeks@ubuntu/member/oerheks) |
| 18:48.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1084] by debhelper |
| 18:52.11 | *** join/#debian paladox_ (sid373195@wikimedia/paladox) |
| 18:52.16 | *** join/#debian disi (6b837f00@107-131-127-0.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:53.52 | *** join/#debian freshtube (~freshtube@92.223.89.166) |
| 18:55.57 | *** join/#debian haijuno (~haijuno@2600:1700:3db0:2540:e137:5cd0:41a0:3eb4) |
| 18:59.28 | *** join/#debian Lord_of_Life (~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362) |
| 19:00.16 | *** join/#debian Haudegen (~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at) |
| 19:03.40 | *** part/#debian xaero (~xaero@irc.stevesoltys.com) |
| 19:04.48 | *** join/#debian longshot (~nobody@2001:470:f0f4:a0a:3490:41f1:61d5:5d68) |
| 19:05.01 | *** join/#debian godane (~godane4@191.96.109.205) |
| 19:08.58 | *** join/#debian Max` (~user@unaffiliated/b1anc) |
| 19:12.17 | *** join/#debian jerry (~jerry@208.104.189.175) |
| 19:15.26 | *** join/#debian wallacer (~quassel@2001:bc8:1824:9a:cafe:babe:b00b:aa02) |
| 19:17.35 | *** join/#debian moldorcoder7 (~moldorcod@206.166.251.59) |
| 19:17.47 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f154700821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:28.51 | *** join/#debian evilbug (54e88bfe@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.84.232.139.254) |
| 19:29.24 | *** join/#debian jerry0 (~jerry@192.145.117.230) |
| 19:29.27 | *** join/#debian Caesar_NayKid (~igloo@107.117.171.49) |
| 19:29.49 | *** join/#debian sevu (~sevu@x4db7e7e4.dyn.telefonica.de) |
| 19:32.49 | *** join/#debian ced117 (~ced117@opensuse/member/ced117) |
| 19:35.07 | *** join/#debian Tobbi (~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi) |
| 19:37.38 | Caesar_NayKid | Anyone know how i can have my Debian default to having a Realtek nic on and connecting during Debian boot and leave off an intel nic to be available for a guest OS? |
| 19:38.52 | ratrace | Caesar_NayKid: if you don't configure intel nic on the host, it won't be used |
| 19:39.16 | ratrace | however, what exactly do you mean by "available for a guest OS"? pci passthru? |
| 19:39.47 | Caesar_NayKid | I guess so. I just turn it off and it is available in the guest. |
| 19:40.49 | Caesar_NayKid | Yea, it is configured in Qemu/Virt-Manager as a Physical PCI device |
| 19:41.00 | Caesar_NayKid | And it works |
| 19:41.36 | Caesar_NayKid | But when i boot Debian (host) it enables that Intel nic by default |
| 19:41.45 | ratrace | Caesar_NayKid: "enables"? |
| 19:42.10 | Caesar_NayKid | Yeah, im using the gnome terminology probably, but there's a gui toggle |
| 19:42.11 | ratrace | if you don't configure it, it won't be used. _however_ pci passthrough requires you to assign the hardware to vfio-pci _before_ its regular driver grabs it |
| 19:42.58 | Caesar_NayKid | That's handled in the XML when i power up the VM |
| 19:43.07 | Caesar_NayKid | And it works properly |
| 19:43.18 | ratrace | if it "works properly" ... where's the problem? |
| 19:43.24 | *** join/#debian coot (~coot@37.30.50.130.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) |
| 19:43.34 | Caesar_NayKid | I guess i need to "unconfigure it" then from the host? |
| 19:43.52 | ratrace | also I doubt we're talking about the same things, unless virt-manager/libvirt is capable of reassigning pci devices to different drivers |
| 19:44.05 | ratrace | Caesar_NayKid: again, if "it works properly" ... where's the problem? |
| 19:44.21 | Caesar_NayKid | The problem was described twice above, Debian defaults to use that nic. |
| 19:44.37 | Caesar_NayKid | I turn it off so I don't risk a conflict i assume |
| 19:44.46 | ratrace | I don't think you understand.... if it WORKS PROPERLY ..... then what does NOT work properly? |
| 19:45.00 | jmcnaught | libvirt can reassign PCI devices. I assign my second GPU to vfio-pci at boot, but I also pass an NVMe and USB controller and libvirt just handles those. |
| 19:45.01 | ratrace | if you pci passthrough a device, then the host cannot and won't use it |
| 19:45.21 | *** join/#debian akp55 (~akp55@c-73-148-15-158.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 19:45.25 | ratrace | jmcnaught: okay, I didn't know libvirt could do that. at any rate, a manual reassignment is possible |
| 19:45.55 | *** join/#debian puke (~vroom@217.138.252.184) |
| 19:46.03 | *** join/#debian jerry4 (~jerry@208.104.189.175) |
| 19:46.22 | Caesar_NayKid | So, when I boot Debian, the intel adapater grabs an IP address for Debian. |
| 19:46.45 | ratrace | Caesar_NayKid: so you see, either it works properly (pci passthru'd to guest, host CANNOT use it) or it does NOT (it's NOT pci-passthru'd to the guest, and the host is using it). so which is it? |
| 19:46.47 | Caesar_NayKid | I click "turn off" in the gui on that |
| 19:47.28 | ratrace | sorry I don't know what that means or does. you'll have to be more specific with your config. show examples of outputs and configs that you ahve and that don't work as expected. |
| 19:48.03 | *** join/#debian Texou (~Texou@unaffiliated/texou) |
| 19:49.09 | jmcnaught | Caesar_NayKid: if you do not want the host/hypervisor OS to use that Intel NIC at all, then you can assign it to vfio-pci at boot so it will only be used by guests. |
| 19:49.31 | Caesar_NayKid | Thanks jmcnaught where do i do that? |
| 19:49.39 | jmcnaught | Caesar_NayKid: "lspci -nnd 8086::0200" should list your Intel NIC with its PCI-ID (it will start with 8086:) |
| 19:49.42 | *** join/#debian jerry (~jerry@192.145.117.196) |
| 19:50.25 | ratrace | I literally said that and Caesar_NayKid literally said "That's handled in the XML when i power up the VM \n And it works properly" |
| 19:50.38 | jmcnaught | Caesar_NayKid: take that and make a file in /etc/modprobe.d/ with contents "options vfio-pci ids=8086:abcd" (replace abcd with actual values) |
| 19:51.09 | ratrace | in addition to that, it _might_ be required to create a softdep so vfio-pci grabs it before your regular kernel |
| 19:51.36 | ratrace | eg... softdep <your_intel_module>: vfio-pci you can add that in the same modprobe.d file |
| 19:51.52 | ratrace | (regular kernel *module) |
| 19:51.58 | jmcnaught | Caesar_NayKid: then add a line for vfio-pci to /etc/modules. You might need to run "update-initramfs -u"⦠or what I do is add "modules-load=vfio_pci" to GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT in /etc/default/grub |
| 19:53.24 | Caesar_NayKid | Hmm. Ok I screenshot all that so i can read on those commands |
| 19:54.08 | Caesar_NayKid | Thought it might just be editing a single config file but appears to be something new that i need to spend some time with |
| 19:54.19 | *** join/#debian oahong (~samigarus@unaffiliated/samigarus) |
| 19:54.43 | *** join/#debian Fenris_ (~Fenris@unaffiliated/fenris) |
| 19:54.44 | Caesar_NayKid | I mean, maybe it still is but all that is new to me. Thanks. |
| 19:55.32 | *** join/#debian arathor- (thelounge@prgmr/customer/arathor) |
| 19:55.54 | *** join/#debian Lord_of_Life_ (~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362) |
| 19:56.25 | *** join/#debian Fenris_ (~Fenris@unaffiliated/fenris) |
| 19:58.55 | *** join/#debian Fenris (~Fenris@unaffiliated/fenris) |
| 20:02.11 | *** join/#debian tlgl^nix (~damien@S0106008ef25e98fb.su.shawcable.net) |
| 20:02.27 | *** join/#debian lemur (~l3m@cable-static-7-246.breitband.ch) |
| 20:04.50 | *** join/#debian winy (~vince@78.197.243.96) |
| 20:05.23 | *** join/#debian Vizva (~Vizva@gateway/tor-sasl/vizva) |
| 20:05.51 | *** join/#debian tnewman (~tnewman@1-171-219-247.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) |
| 20:06.06 | jhutchins | terabit: Why sad? |
| 20:06.33 | jhutchins | Oops - lost in the scrollbu0ffer again. |
| 20:07.05 | *** join/#debian Fenris (~Fenris@unaffiliated/fenris) |
| 20:08.33 | Caesar_NayKid | So /etc/modprobe.d/ is a directory i want to make? Or a file inside /etc/ ? |
| 20:08.55 | greycat | it should already exist. |
| 20:09.09 | *** join/#debian baconicsynergy (~jdd@096-035-075-149.res.spectrum.com) |
| 20:10.08 | Caesar_NayKid | Ok a folder does exist there by that name |
| 20:11.44 | *** join/#debian LtL (~ltl@unaffiliated/ltl) |
| 20:13.19 | Caesar_NayKid | So i can make a file and call it anything i want, just end it in .conf inside that directory? |
| 20:14.33 | Caesar_NayKid | Currently four files exist there, dkms.conf, nvidia.conf, nvidia-blacklists-nouveau.conf and nvidia-kernel-common.conf |
| 20:15.11 | *** join/#debian craigevil (craig@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/craigevil) |
| 20:15.22 | oxek | correct |
| 20:15.43 | Caesar_NayKid | Is there any filenames to avoid? |
| 20:15.53 | *** join/#debian hexorg (~Thunderbi@100.0.180.112) |
| 20:16.01 | jhutchins | Celmor[m]: *nic usually doesn't care about file extensions (.conf) - it looks at the first word of the data to see what it is. |
| 20:16.07 | oxek | Caesar_NayKid: probably don't use any weird characters |
| 20:16.13 | oxek | spaces, etc. |
| 20:16.21 | Caesar_NayKid | Caesar.conf |
| 20:16.26 | greycat | There are several places where file extensions matter. |
| 20:17.26 | oxek | greycat: one of the strangest places is /etc/sudoers.d/, where a file must not have an extension if it is to work |
| 20:17.33 | greycat | The C compiler front-end uses extensions to decide what kind of file it's dealing with. Web servers use extensions to decide the Content-Type on static files. Some config directories require files to end with .conf. |
| 20:17.38 | EdePopede | saves some work by avoiding sniffing. |
| 20:17.45 | jmcnaught | Caesar_NayKid: do a favour to your future self and include a note about the purpose of the file in a comment |
| 20:18.16 | greycat | And yes, some config directories require filenames NOT to contain dots, because .bak and .20210419 and so forth generally mean backup copies. |
| 20:18.31 | *** join/#debian de-facto_ (~de-facto@gateway/tor-sasl/de-facto) |
| 20:19.56 | *** join/#debian Haxxa (~Haxxa@122-199-44-212.ip4.superloop.com) |
| 20:20.22 | Caesar_NayKid | Ok so put #this is to handle the intel nic card |
| 20:20.27 | Caesar_NayKid | In the beginning? |
| 20:20.43 | greycat | using a descriptive filename is also wise |
| 20:21.00 | Caesar_NayKid | I was gonna put intelnic.conf |
| 20:21.04 | greycat | that's perfect |
| 20:23.14 | Caesar_NayKid | EdePopede: whatcha mean about sniffing? |
| 20:23.50 | EdePopede | opening the file to check what it contains |
| 20:24.18 | EdePopede | most defined filetypes have some magic number |
| 20:24.40 | *** join/#debian OlCe (~user@amontsouris-157-1-8-123.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:24.46 | Caesar_NayKid | Oh,. You're sayin use a name so I don't have to look inside |
| 20:24.49 | EdePopede | like you can open a PNG in a text editor and it starts with a short readable text and dos/mac line endings |
| 20:24.54 | EdePopede | *nod* |
| 20:25.23 | EdePopede | sometimes it even fails, mpeg .ts sometimes are mistaken for some Qt related files |
| 20:25.53 | EdePopede | (at least xdg fails here, good old file(1) works much better) |
| 20:25.55 | Caesar_NayKid | That sounds hardcore |
| 20:25.59 | EdePopede | *nod* |
| 20:26.17 | Caesar_NayKid | I know those file types but not exactly what you meant haha |
| 20:26.24 | EdePopede | had to change the handler for this kind of files to video player though absolutely not related |
| 20:26.49 | EdePopede | all they have is "G0" every few, dunno, maybe kB |
| 20:27.27 | EdePopede | not sure what would happen if a text starts with exactly the string you also fine in a .png |
| 20:27.29 | Caesar_NayKid | Ok so i got two items to potentially put in this file "options vfio-pci ids=8086:####" |
| 20:27.45 | EdePopede | also interesting, what is the difference between .ar and .deb? ;) |
| 20:28.14 | Caesar_NayKid | And the other was suggested by rat race is that softdep |
| 20:28.47 | Caesar_NayKid | Is it one or the other or i need both |
| 20:29.28 | oxek | EdePopede: .deb is one common format of .ar |
| 20:29.41 | oxek | there are plenty more .ar that are not compatible with each other |
| 20:29.47 | *** join/#debian brokencycle (~brokencyc@2a02:c7f:c67d:d100:53b3:433c:c0a8:2b9e) |
| 20:29.54 | *** join/#debian vinosec (~Monokuai@2a02:8108:95bf:d58c:3e58:c2ff:fe08:2587) |
| 20:29.59 | greycat | Most ar(1) archives end with .a -- or at least, before Debian that was true. |
| 20:30.21 | *** join/#debian KhazAkar (uid144674@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lismitgbkenkcneg) |
| 20:30.29 | greycat | /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.a: current ar archive |
| 20:30.40 | EdePopede | oxek: yep, found out that just the order of the 3 files in it must fit |
| 20:31.09 | Caesar_NayKid | What's the % chance i make this file and break my system somehow? |
| 20:31.29 | Caesar_NayKid | Is this a relatively safe thing to be fiddling with? |
| 20:31.42 | jmcnaught | Do you understand what you're doing? |
| 20:31.54 | Caesar_NayKid | Maybe i should wait until i can sit at the PC at least? |
| 20:32.11 | greycat | The worst that can happen is your network interface won't work. If that happens, it won't stop your system from booting, so you can just boot it up, undo your change, and go back to how it was. |
| 20:32.21 | *** join/#debian fflori (~fflori@194.230.155.135) |
| 20:32.33 | *** join/#debian supercilious (~thomas@aenea.engineeringvirtue.net) |
| 20:32.36 | greycat | ... oh, this is a *remote* system? |
| 20:32.43 | Caesar_NayKid | Ok but "likely" only the intel adapter wouldn't work |
| 20:32.52 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f154700821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:33.11 | Caesar_NayKid | Which would be ok as there is another card in there, the onboard realtek |
| 20:33.51 | Caesar_NayKid | greycat: yes im in Chicago the system is in VA. |
| 20:34.26 | EdePopede | fallback script? if the internet doesn't show up, undo the change after some time and reboot |
| 20:34.46 | Caesar_NayKid | Right now im connected to the guest Win10 vm via chrome remote desktop and then nomachined from that into Debian |
| 20:35.03 | jmcnaught | What you are doing is also easy to undo. If you run "lspci -kd ::0200" it will show you the kernel driver module in use for your ethernet controllers. What you are trying to do is replace the kernel driver module with vfio-pci which dedicates the device for pass through to a virtual machine. |
| 20:35.19 | Caesar_NayKid | EdePopede: that sounds dope.. but beyond my current skillset likely |
| 20:36.10 | Caesar_NayKid | I grabbed the module # @jmcnaught with lspci -nnd |
| 20:36.42 | Caesar_NayKid | Wasn't sure if that was sexier to post haha |
| 20:36.46 | Caesar_NayKid | Secure |
| 20:36.55 | Caesar_NayKid | Weird autofill |
| 20:37.02 | jmcnaught | sure⦠|
| 20:37.07 | Caesar_NayKid | Haha |
| 20:37.23 | Caesar_NayKid | I am Vveird.. but not that weird |
| 20:37.45 | *** join/#debian wigums (~wigums@unaffiliated/wigums) |
| 20:38.28 | *** join/#debian Tony-St4rk (sid74233@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yrhdkgqsryxsizzj) |
| 20:38.32 | *** join/#debian Blablubber (sid481573@wikipedia/Blablubbs) |
| 20:38.52 | jmcnaught | A device's PCI-ID is safe to share. |
| 20:39.12 | *** join/#debian taowa (sid458860@debian/developer/taowa) |
| 20:39.14 | *** join/#debian CaptainN (sid281065@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fwgkhjlobacwluas) |
| 20:39.16 | *** join/#debian binaryhermit (sid462772@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pzhbbekzkzkienob) |
| 20:39.19 | *** join/#debian parisienne (sid383587@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aiygzsqhowxpopox) |
| 20:39.21 | *** join/#debian aizen_s (sid462968@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gzlgfjzfpthijryy) |
| 20:39.33 | greycat | Even simpler than "if the internet doesn't come up" -- just write a snippet in rc.local which will sleep for 10 minutes, then undo your change and reboot. If you are able to login during those 10 minutes, then you kill that script and remove it from rc.local. |
| 20:39.36 | *** join/#debian carlesc (sid181280@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fvyahkreiqqwvdyv) |
| 20:39.36 | *** join/#debian paladox_ (sid373195@wikimedia/paladox) |
| 20:39.41 | *** join/#debian drupol (sid117588@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gsnwinbjioyhnadu) |
| 20:40.07 | *** join/#debian neoweb (sid343200@makerslocal/webdawg) |
| 20:40.07 | Caesar_NayKid | So should i just do the conf file with theoptions vfio-pci ids=8086:10d3 |
| 20:40.11 | *** join/#debian astra (sid289983@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gxlcuodxlciucbst) |
| 20:40.12 | *** join/#debian terabit (sid146285@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-daqwjgfxqsljzpak) |
| 20:40.30 | Caesar_NayKid | And try it like that? |
| 20:40.33 | *** join/#debian KhazAkar (uid144674@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-drnapussiyboeoph) |
| 20:40.42 | Caesar_NayKid | With the etc/modules comment |
| 20:41.34 | Caesar_NayKid | Etc/modules is empty currently |
| 20:42.33 | Caesar_NayKid | It's funny, once I started the VM, that nic doesn't show up in gnome settings any more. |
| 20:42.46 | Caesar_NayKid | I mean, it makes sense |
| 20:43.05 | *** join/#debian moldorcoder7 (~moldorcod@206.166.251.59) |
| 20:44.45 | *** join/#debian craigevi1 (craig@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/craigevil) |
| 20:44.46 | *** join/#debian Sleepy63 (~Sleepy63@47.185.243.76) |
| 20:45.46 | *** join/#debian Foxfir3 (~Foxfir3@77.33.2.45.dhcp.fibianet.dk) |
| 20:46.09 | Foxfir3 | installing php will install apache2. Why? |
| 20:46.45 | *** join/#debian craigevi1 (craig@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/craigevil) |
| 20:46.50 | *** join/#debian rylee (~rylee@gateway/tor-sasl/rylee) |
| 20:46.58 | oxek | Foxfir3: because apache is a dependency of php |
| 20:47.02 | jhutchins | Foxfir3: Because it assumes you'll be using it for a web serveer. |
| 20:47.10 | *** join/#debian freebench__ (~freebench@92.253.251.234) |
| 20:47.24 | sney | httpd is a recommendation, iirc. but it can be nginx or whatever instead of apache, as long as you aren't installing libapache2-mod-php |
| 20:47.25 | Foxfir3 | how can apache be a depency? I know that its not. |
| 20:47.27 | *** join/#debian sinaowolabi (~Sina@102.134.114.1) |
| 20:47.36 | jhutchins | Foxfir3: Do you have another web server like ngnix installed? |
| 20:47.42 | Foxfir3 | nginx |
| 20:47.45 | jmcnaught | Foxfir3: which package did you install? php7.3? |
| 20:47.50 | jhutchins | yeah. |
| 20:47.57 | Foxfir3 | apt install php |
| 20:48.00 | oxek | php -> php7.3 -> libapache2-mod-php7.3 -> apache2-bin |
| 20:48.10 | jhutchins | Foxfir3: Which release are you running. |
| 20:48.16 | Foxfir3 | but its a little strange? |
| 20:48.24 | Foxfir3 | bullseye |
| 20:48.24 | jmcnaught | Foxfir3: try "apt install php php7.3-fpm" |
| 20:48.34 | jmcnaught | php7.4-fpm then |
| 20:48.45 | sney | it is weird that apache mod-php is still the default implementation in 2021 |
| 20:49.13 | jhutchins | Foxfir3: Yeah, nginx should satisfy the webserver dependency. |
| 20:50.12 | jhutchins | Foxfir3: You might want to ask if that's a dependency bug in #debian-next on oftc,net |
| 20:50.24 | *** join/#debian acu (~acu@adsl-76-204-134-28.dsl.mrdnct.sbcglobal.net) |
| 20:50.38 | sney | jhutchins: try looking at the package, it says Depends: libapache2-mod-php7.4 | php7.4-fpm | php7.4-cgi, php7.4-common |
| 20:50.45 | sney | it's not a "bug" it's just a weird/legacy choice. |
| 20:50.58 | Foxfir3 | okay. debian-next. thanks. also, it seems strange that a 'webserver' during the installation is the apache webserver |
| 20:51.07 | sney | this is the same in buster, it's just s/7.4/7.3/ |
| 20:51.47 | sney | apache2 has the highest popcon score so it's the default http server in debian. it's also the http server that is used by debian web services. |
| 20:51.49 | sney | !popcon |
| 20:51.49 | dpkg | extra, extra, read all about it, popcon is the Debian Popularity contest, the basis for what packages appear on the first few CDs/DVDs etc (by rank). Install the popularity-contest package to participate. See the results at http://popcon.debian.org/ -- See the FAQ at http://popcon.debian.org/FAQ . Statistics are also available via IRC, /msg judd popcon $package |
| 20:52.06 | sney | a lot of priorities are decided via popcon results, including what is on each dvd iso etc |
| 20:52.27 | Foxfir3 | sney: thanks for the info. didnt know about popcon |
| 20:54.14 | Foxfir3 | sney: maybe Nginx is considered a commercial product |
| 20:54.30 | jhutchins | Foxfir3: No, it's OS. |
| 20:54.53 | sney | Foxfir3: nope, defaults are not value judgements |
| 20:55.01 | *** join/#debian debsan (~debsan@unaffiliated/debsan) |
| 20:55.03 | sney | plenty of people run nginx on debian |
| 20:55.07 | *** join/#debian cosimone (~user@2001:b07:ae5:db26:cce1:fb8c:fd72:7d55) |
| 20:55.49 | Foxfir3 | sney: okay. its an error then. obviously installing php should not install a webserver |
| 20:56.00 | jhutchins | sney: You would think nginx would satisfy the dependency. |
| 20:56.15 | Caesar_NayKid | Do i have to restart crontab after i do crontab -e and add a line? |
| 20:56.20 | greycat | no |
| 20:56.23 | jmcnaught | Installing php-fpm or php-cgi does not install a web server. |
| 20:56.53 | Foxfir3 | jmcnaught: sorry. but php-fpm is not php |
| 20:57.01 | Caesar_NayKid | greycat: were you talking to me or him? |
| 20:57.08 | greycat | 16:56 Caesar_NayKid> Do i have to restart crontab after i do crontab -e and |
| 20:57.09 | greycat | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:57.09 | greycat | 16:56 greycat> no |
| 20:57.21 | jhutchins | Caesar_NayKid: No, cron reads the files each time it runs. |
| 20:57.29 | Caesar_NayKid | Cool. |
| 20:57.42 | Foxfir3 | oh.. debian-next needs invite :( |
| 20:57.46 | sney | Foxfir3: most instructions for installing a webserver stack specify whether to install mod-php or php-fpm, if someone is doing 'apt install php' with nothing specified it might be assumed that they don't know what they're doing, and need the most basic setup. which is apache and mod-php. |
| 20:57.46 | greycat | ordinary users *can't* restart cron so it had to be designed without that need |
| 20:57.51 | sney | !invite only |
| 20:57.51 | dpkg | Many debian channels are on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you try to join one and you see "Cannot join (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc |
| 20:57.58 | *** join/#debian alexandros_c (~quassel@unaffiliated/alexandros-c/x-1684531) |
| 20:58.02 | *** join/#debian alexandros_tab (~quassel@unaffiliated/alexandros-c/x-1684531) |
| 20:58.06 | sney | OFTC is a separate network, right now you are on freenode. |
| 20:58.10 | Caesar_NayKid | Debian next is over there yeah |
| 20:58.43 | Foxfir3 | sney: thanks. on the british freenode |
| 20:59.16 | sney | and apache is still way more popular than nginx in debian, see https://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=nginx%2C+apache2&show_installed=on&want_legend=on&want_ticks=on&from_date=&to_date=&hlght_date=&date_fmt=%25Y-%25m&beenhere=1 |
| 20:59.57 | greycat | Debian users tend to be very traditional and resistant to changing. |
| 21:00.58 | Foxfir3 | sney: depends on OS. im used to php just install php. Installing nodejs doesnt install apache. And in fact both Nodejs and php has built in servers. so its a design error to have php run as a metapackage |
| 21:01.27 | acu | is anyone here having experience using nvme in a RAIDZ for one year or close ? I am very confident on spining disks - works years - but I did not use nvme or ssd in Raid for long time and I want to create a RADZ with 3 NVME 2 TB each - and I do not know if I need to go for enterprise or what is the cheapest nvme 2 TB that I could go with (or if you share whatever any one uses it will be great) |
| 21:01.29 | *** join/#debian noboruma (~noboruma@host-92-12-47-208.as43234.net) |
| 21:02.03 | jmcnaught | Foxfir3: maybe php-cli is what you want then? |
| 21:02.09 | Foxfir3 | sney: no biggie. just interesting that when installing Debian it tries to lure the user into install Apache webserver. so its not only under the php install. |
| 21:02.50 | sney | Foxfir3: there is no "lure" it's just the most popular package. nobody is making a decision to try to make you do something one way or another. |
| 21:02.54 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f154700821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:03.36 | *** join/#debian aligator (~aligator@105.154.94.205) |
| 21:03.37 | sney | Foxfir3: I agree that mod-php should probably not be the first choice of php implementation, since even in apache2, FPM is a better choice with better performance. but there is no malice here, the apache/php maintainers are not trying to trick you |
| 21:03.48 | sney | sane defaults are provided and you can choose whether or not to follow them. that's it. |
| 21:04.26 | oxek | sney: should still probably be changed |
| 21:04.42 | Foxfir3 | sney: almost. during Debian install, its Apache is just named 'webserver'. No hint as to what server will be installed. |
| 21:05.07 | Foxfir3 | sney: its a leftover from the old days. |
| 21:05.21 | Caesar_NayKid | Uh oh. I entered the wrong target path to do an rsync in cron (target directory does not exist) anyone know if it will create it somehow or just fail? |
| 21:05.27 | Foxfir3 | sney: fpm with Apache? |
| 21:05.29 | sney | Foxfir3: the debian install guide provides the details of every single option in the debian installer, with even more defaults available in the release notes. the installer team assumes you will at least look at one or the other document |
| 21:05.53 | sney | yes, fpm with apache2 with the event or worker mpm |
| 21:06.22 | Foxfir3 | sney: thanks. will have to check that out. |
| 21:06.23 | jhutchins | ,v php7 |
| 21:06.24 | judd | No package named 'php7' was found in amd64. |
| 21:06.26 | sney | speaking of "leftovers from the old days", libapache2-mod-php hasn't been a good idea for a production service in... 8 years/ |
| 21:06.35 | greycat | ,v php-cli |
| 21:06.37 | judd | Package: php-cli on amd64 -- stretch: 1:7.0+49; buster: 2:7.3+69; bullseye: 2:7.4+76; sid: 2:7.4+76; experimental: 2:8.0+80~exp1 |
| 21:07.15 | karlpinc | If the defaults suck, I suppose it's time for a bug report.... |
| 21:07.20 | jhutchins | ,v php |
| 21:07.21 | judd | Package: php on amd64 -- stretch: 1:7.0+49; buster: 2:7.3+69; bullseye: 2:7.4+76; sid: 2:7.4+76; experimental: 2:8.0+80~exp1 |
| 21:07.54 | greycat | ,depends php |
| 21:07.55 | judd | Package php in buster/amd64 -- depends: php7.3. |
| 21:08.00 | Foxfir3 | sney: php-cli does install php |
| 21:08.01 | greycat | ,depends php7.3 |
| 21:08.02 | judd | Package php7.3 in buster/amd64 -- depends: libapache2-mod-php7.3 | php7.3-fpm | php7.3-cgi, php7.3-common. |
| 21:08.06 | jhutchins | Sigh. No backports. I wish wordpress would be more backwards-compatible/tolerant. |
| 21:09.36 | Foxfir3 | install php-cli and php-fpm solved the problem |
| 21:09.59 | sney | Foxfir3: yes, the | in a debian package's Depends field means "or" |
| 21:10.15 | sney | so mod-php OR fpm OR cgi |
| 21:10.43 | Foxfir3 | sney: aha.. okay. didnt catch that. |
| 21:11.09 | *** join/#debian Elodin (~weechat@unaffiliated/padawan) |
| 21:11.16 | *** join/#debian freebench (~freebench@92.253.251.234) |
| 21:12.12 | *** join/#debian Iamahuman (~noname@wikipedia/jukeboksi) |
| 21:13.31 | sney | acu: try asking in #zfs as they have more raidz users. but I have heard that solid state devices in general are becoming very popular with raidz |
| 21:14.32 | Foxfir3 | sney: found the solution https://tecadmin.net/install-nginx-php-fpm-debian-10/ |
| 21:15.08 | sney | Foxfir3: yes, as you can see the instructions specify php-fpm. [14:57:45] <sney> Foxfir3: most instructions for installing a webserver stack specify whether to install mod-php or php-fpm |
| 21:15.17 | *** join/#debian sinaowolabi (~Sina@102.134.114.1) |
| 21:15.42 | *** join/#debian teksimian (~teksimian@198-91-188-120.cpe.distributel.net) |
| 21:15.50 | sney | using Sury's 3rd party repo makes no difference in dependencies here, since Ondrej maintains the packages for debian as well. they are practically identical except for available versions/patch sets. |
| 21:16.07 | Caesar_NayKid | How can i check in the terminal if cifs is installed? |
| 21:16.26 | sney | Caesar_NayKid: apt policy cifs-utils |
| 21:16.30 | *** join/#debian catman370 (~catman@unaffiliated/catman370) |
| 21:16.39 | Foxfir3 | sney: not correct. installing php in a traditional manner requires a private PPA. Basically a hack, while it should be standard |
| 21:17.03 | oxek | Caesar_NayKid: `apt list cifs-utils` would show [installed] if it is installed |
| 21:17.05 | Caesar_NayKid | Installed: (none) |
| 21:17.52 | sney | Foxfir3: under php installation it says quite clearly, "$ sudo apt install php php-fpm". this would make php install fpm, which means mod-php is not installed, and apache is not a dependency. it's the same in debian without the ppa. feel free to try it with that exact command. |
| 21:17.54 | Caesar_NayKid | Cifs-utils/testing 2:6.11-1 amd64 |
| 21:17.55 | oxek | aside, cifs really should be renamed because it has nothing to do with CIFS anymore |
| 21:18.20 | *** join/#debian dvs (~hibbard@2607:f2c0:9391:3400:e6a7:a0ff:fe31:ddf0) |
| 21:18.21 | oxek | Caesar_NayKid: you probably should be asking this in #debian-next on OFTC IRC network |
| 21:18.45 | *** join/#debian fearnothing (~fearnothi@unaffiliated/fearnothing) |
| 21:19.08 | Caesar_NayKid | Ok But,.. does look like it's installed yeah? |
| 21:19.16 | *** join/#debian catman370 (~catman@unaffiliated/catman370) |
| 21:19.27 | Caesar_NayKid | If it's not working right I'll ask them for sure |
| 21:19.43 | Caesar_NayKid | Seems like it is in there tho. |
| 21:19.50 | sney | Caesar_NayKid: if it says "Installed: (none)" then it is not installed. |
| 21:20.34 | Caesar_NayKid | Oh. I thought that but then tried the other command he said. |
| 21:20.59 | sney | Caesar_NayKid: he said it would show [installed] if it was installed |
| 21:21.24 | sney | 'apt list' is a package search, it will give you results as long as the package is available in your apt sources. |
| 21:22.45 | Caesar_NayKid | Hmm.. that list was too long. |
| 21:23.01 | Caesar_NayKid | Should i do apt list cifs-util |
| 21:23.18 | sney | didn't you just do that? the package is not installed, install it |
| 21:23.24 | jhutchins | Caesar_NayKid: Try using quotes. |
| 21:23.38 | sney | the selective reading in this channel, I swear. >.> |
| 21:23.47 | Caesar_NayKid | sney: i thought i was searching to see if it was available |
| 21:24.14 | sney | Caesar_NayKid: apt list cifs-utils AND apt policy cifs-utils BOTH ALREADY TOLD YOU THAT IT'S AVAILABLE. |
| 21:24.55 | Caesar_NayKid | Actually apt list cifs-utils doesn't |
| 21:25.08 | Caesar_NayKid | It just says Listings... Done |
| 21:25.19 | Caesar_NayKid | But shows nothing. |
| 21:25.45 | oxek | Caesar_NayKid: paste (using some pastebin service) your /etc/apt/sources.list here |
| 21:25.51 | *** join/#debian YaoNai (~YaoNai@unaffiliated/yaonai) |
| 21:25.52 | oxek | you likely disabled the main repo |
| 21:25.58 | oxek | ehh, I mean the master repo |
| 21:26.01 | sney | then what is this? [15:17:54] <Caesar_NayKid> Cifs-utils/testing 2:6.11-1 amd64 |
| 21:27.01 | *** join/#debian catman370 (~catman@unaffiliated/catman370) |
| 21:27.06 | *** join/#debian Iamahuman4 (~noname@wikipedia/jukeboksi) |
| 21:27.32 | Caesar_NayKid | That's from the apt policy command not the apt list cifs-util |
| 21:27.51 | Caesar_NayKid | It said (not installed) |
| 21:28.09 | *** join/#debian bertbob (~bertbob@67-2-57-146.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 21:28.16 | oxek | I have a separate question for anyone, what's the correct way of calling this 'deb https://deb.debian.org/debian buster' instead of 'main', because 'main' conflicts with 'main contrib non-free' |
| 21:28.46 | Caesar_NayKid | Pretty sure, when i typed apt list by itself it blew up the terminal I can't scroll back past python3-report.. something |
| 21:29.02 | sney | oxek: I usually say 'primary' |
| 21:29.08 | greycat | oxek: I would call it "an incomplete line from sources.list" |
| 21:29.33 | dvs | heh |
| 21:29.53 | sney | Caesar_NayKid: nobody told you to run apt list by itself, I was explaining what it is *after* you had already tried using it |
| 21:30.28 | oxek | greycat: true, but I'm mainly trying to differentiate this 'deb https://deb.debian.org/debian buster main' from 'deb https://deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates main'. The second one would naturally be called "updates repo" |
| 21:30.39 | oxek | same with "security repo" or "backports repo" |
| 21:30.42 | *** join/#debian mtn (~mtn@unaffiliated/mtn) |
| 21:30.48 | Caesar_NayKid | Thanks for being mostly patient with me everyone. I know after a few hours of sifting through forums and reddits of randoms i can find this info so appreciate you tryna h.b.o. |
| 21:30.50 | oxek | primary works I guess |
| 21:31.00 | Caesar_NayKid | I have done some searches on apt in general |
| 21:31.13 | Caesar_NayKid | Just still new to me. |
| 21:32.03 | Caesar_NayKid | Im aware I may have bit off alot and jumped into the deep end so to speak but it's all working great so far, i really am liking Debian. |
| 21:32.32 | Caesar_NayKid | And i know it's still not released yet but Bullseye is very nice imo. |
| 21:33.26 | Caesar_NayKid | Just about everything I've tried to accomplish so far has been great. |
| 21:34.21 | *** join/#debian steven_saus (~steven_sa@cpe-74-131-36-220.kya.res.rr.com) |
| 21:34.50 | *** join/#debian craigevil (craig@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/craigevil) |
| 21:40.31 | *** join/#debian oztunan (~oz_tunan@oztunan.org) |
| 21:42.02 | *** part/#debian YaoNai (~YaoNai@unaffiliated/yaonai) |
| 21:43.23 | oztunan | My first time here, iirc, I would like to start by saying hello. |
| 21:43.44 | dvs | why hello? ;-P |
| 21:43.55 | sney | hello oztunan, do you have a debian question? |
| 21:44.08 | *** join/#debian n_crm (~pi@2601:680:c880:d280:69d0:7ecb:d4c7:1f13) |
| 21:44.13 | oztunan | I was afraid that would be the response, lol. |
| 21:45.08 | dvs | bonjour! |
| 21:45.15 | oztunan | Not now. I mostly joined to observe. I may have a question in the future. I've been a gnu/linux and debian user for a long time. |
| 21:45.51 | sney | #987227 cc Foxfir3, oxek |
| 21:45.51 | oztunan | Lately I've decided to use debian more exclusively. |
| 21:46.38 | oxek | sney: thank you |
| 21:46.45 | oztunan | I'm getting tired of instability and commercialization. |
| 21:47.21 | sney | not sure why the bot didn't print it, /me stares at judd |
| 21:47.28 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f154700821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:48.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1077] by debhelper |
| 21:48.26 | oxek | #987227 |
| 21:48.35 | oxek | hmm |
| 21:48.42 | sney | maybe it's too new for judd's database |
| 21:49.00 | oxek | #609816 |
| 21:49.01 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/609816 in jigdo-file (closed, patch): «package's Homepage: contains a misleading URI »; severity: normal; opened: 2011-01-12; last modified: 2018-01-10. |
| 21:49.07 | oxek | perhaps you're right |
| 21:49.26 | oxek | didn't know judd works that way |
| 21:50.14 | *** join/#debian conyers (~matt_m@2601:182:cb00:3b9f:61ad:3152:e157:b65d) |
| 21:50.33 | sney | the UDD is separate from the BTS, so maybe they sync periodically on a timer. |
| 21:50.59 | sney | being perfectly up to date has never been one of debian's strengths, anyway. :P |
| 21:51.09 | oxek | :) |
| 21:53.38 | *** join/#debian freebench (~freebench@92.253.251.234) |
| 21:56.46 | *** join/#debian Tobbi (~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi) |
| 21:58.00 | Caesar_NayKid | So, im trying to mount a windows share in Debian. This guide told me to make a file ~/.smbcredentials to save the username and password in. |
| 21:58.11 | Caesar_NayKid | Where does it save that file? |
| 21:58.18 | Caesar_NayKid | ~/ |
| 21:58.18 | apt | well, / is home, sweet home |
| 21:58.45 | sney | ~ is shorthand for your home directory |
| 21:58.46 | avu | Caesar_NayKid: the ~ refers to the current user's home directory |
| 21:58.56 | sney | you can do 'ls -l ~' to see this |
| 21:59.05 | Caesar_NayKid | The file reference is /home/username in the file but when i go there I don't see that file |
| 21:59.17 | sney | and files that begin with . are hidden |
| 21:59.24 | avu | Caesar_NayKid: use -a with ls to see "hidden" files |
| 22:00.04 | Caesar_NayKid | Ah ok so i see the hidden files now but looks like I didn't create that. |
| 22:00.16 | Caesar_NayKid | And probably because i was logged in as root.. |
| 22:00.19 | Caesar_NayKid | Haha |
| 22:00.32 | sney | yep, when logged in as root, ~ refers to /root |
| 22:00.53 | oztunan | Wait, now I have a question, I accidentally joined this room. I meant to join the room on the OFTC server. Is this an official debian IRC room? |
| 22:00.53 | *** join/#debian D4rk2020 (~darkangel@pop.92-184-110-85.mobile.abo.orange.fr) |
| 22:01.07 | sney | I prefer to type whole paths when switching back and forth between a regular user and root, so I don't get the "where did that file go" situation |
| 22:01.11 | oztunan | Sorry to interrupt |
| 22:01.17 | avu | oztunan: no, the "official" one is on OFTC |
| 22:01.22 | oztunan | ok |
| 22:01.27 | avu | oztunan: it's smaller than this one here though :) |
| 22:01.31 | sney | oztunan: there is a lot of overlap though, many helpers are in both channels |
| 22:01.35 | sney | !oftc move |
| 22:01.35 | dpkg | irc.debian.org moved to OFTC on June 4th 2006, see http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/05/msg00012.html. Operators and bots (see <fact sharing>) will remain on both networks for the foreseeable future; you're welcome to either move to OFTC with i.d.o or stay on freenode. Questions? Ask in #debian on one or other network. See also http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2006/04/msg00333.html |
| 22:02.16 | oztunan | wow, thanks. Funny how many things I learn by accident. |
| 22:02.35 | *** join/#debian Stardroid (uid4060@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eshuikdgkuibvzwd) |
| 22:02.40 | Caesar_NayKid | It looks like it didn't create that file in the root /home folder under root user though |
| 22:03.10 | Caesar_NayKid | Is that possible? |
| 22:03.37 | Caesar_NayKid | If i was logged in as root and did nano ~/.smbcredentials |
| 22:03.44 | sney | you probably just mistyped something. it's not a big deal, it's a text file. make it again in the right place with the right name this time, and then save it. |
| 22:03.48 | Caesar_NayKid | Where would you expect to see that |
| 22:03.58 | sney | that would be /root/.smbcredentials |
| 22:04.01 | Caesar_NayKid | I made the correct one |
| 22:04.26 | Caesar_NayKid | Yep |
| 22:04.29 | Caesar_NayKid | There it is |
| 22:05.47 | *** join/#debian aligator_ (~aligator@41.250.126.127) |
| 22:06.37 | Caesar_NayKid | I know I don't really gotta worry about it but it gives me practice navigating and switching users in terminal so worth it i feel to do the stuff that's probably internalized by everyone else haha |
| 22:06.58 | Caesar_NayKid | Thanks. I rm the root one |
| 22:07.19 | *** join/#debian aligator_ (~aligator@41.250.126.127) |
| 22:11.35 | *** join/#debian saint_ (~saint_@unaffiliated/saint-/x-0540772) |
| 22:12.18 | *** join/#debian huhuhu (~huhuhu@062122115128.gdansk.vectranet.pl) |
| 22:13.22 | Caesar_NayKid | Mount error(22) |
| 22:17.35 | *** join/#debian met (~met@unaffiliated/met) |
| 22:18.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1068] by debhelper |
| 22:21.10 | *** join/#debian Caesar_NayKid (~igloo@107.117.171.49) |
| 22:25.42 | *** join/#debian uvolmer (~uvolmer@2001-4dd0-212c-82-5acc-6b0b-da9c-d52c.ipv6dyn.netcologne.de) |
| 22:28.18 | *** join/#debian aaro (aaro@gateway/shell/xshellz/x-ofpwbcqjndrqdiks) |
| 22:34.03 | *** join/#debian MagicalWizzy (~MagicalWi@150.107.173.231) |
| 22:36.19 | *** join/#debian ripdisk (~ripdisk@unaffiliated/ripdisk) |
| 22:40.14 | *** join/#debian aaro (aaro@gateway/shell/xshellz/x-vmobuufchosxioxt) |
| 22:40.55 | *** join/#debian craigevil (craig@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/craigevil) |
| 22:42.49 | *** join/#debian haijuno (~haijuno@2600:1700:3db0:2540:b543:c1e:4082:dd41) |
| 22:46.40 | *** join/#debian Unforgiving (unfr@gateway/shell/xshellz/x-hesucjblngseguwh) |
| 22:47.29 | *** join/#debian haijuno (~haijuno@2600:1700:3db0:2540:e0e7:4e4b:9433:f0fd) |
| 22:47.34 | *** join/#debian aaro (aaro@gateway/shell/xshellz/x-qajyitrmkbmtsmab) |
| 22:57.16 | *** join/#debian Speed2u (~Speed2u@unaffiliated/speed2u) |
| 23:01.37 | *** join/#debian zoitub (~quassel@2603-800c-0501-c362-1c47-d0cd-8c17-e522.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 23:01.57 | *** join/#debian elios (~kia@unaffiliated/elios) |
| 23:02.33 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f154700821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:03.22 | *** join/#debian chalcedony (~chalcedon@unaffiliated/chalcedony) |
| 23:04.04 | *** join/#debian awal1 (~awal1@bras-base-mtrlpq0315w-grc-23-70-55-160-85.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 23:07.09 | *** join/#debian veebull (~veebull@66.172.106.222) |
| 23:10.54 | *** join/#debian cliluw (~cliluw@unaffiliated/cliluw) |
| 23:11.24 | *** join/#debian Foxfir3 (~Foxfir3@77.33.2.45.dhcp.fibianet.dk) |
| 23:12.53 | acu | sney - thank you for zfs channel pointer - I got good advise there |
| 23:15.33 | sney | np |
| 23:17.23 | *** join/#debian ml| (~ml|@unaffiliated/ml/x-3958674) |
| 23:19.54 | *** join/#debian cluna (bef658f3@190.246.88.243) |
| 23:21.58 | *** join/#debian dvs (~hibbard@2607:f2c0:9391:3400:e6a7:a0ff:fe31:ddf0) |
| 23:26.03 | *** join/#debian iridos (~iridos@unaffiliated/iridos) |
| 23:32.35 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f154700821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:35.42 | acu | !zfs |
| 23:35.42 | dpkg | ZFS (originally Zettabyte File System) is a file system / logical volume manager developed by Sun Microsystems (http://deb.li/7xXU). The Debian GNU/kFreeBSD kernel since 7.2 has ZFS support, the userland utilities are packaged as zfsutils. Native Linux support from zfsonlinux.org, #zfsonlinux channel on freenode, is included in Debian starting with <stretch> and <jessie-backports> with some caveats due to license conflicts. |
| 23:44.57 | *** join/#debian azizLIGHT (~azizLIGHT@unaffiliated/azizlight) |
| 23:46.48 | *** join/#debian warsoul (warsoul@unaffiliated/warsoul) |
| 23:58.52 | acu | !raidz |
| 23:59.02 | dvs | raid! |
| 23:59.48 | *** join/#debian mikhayo (~mikhayo2@pool-100-36-29-181.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
