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| 00:02.09 | yanmaani | somiaj: yeah, but it only uses ~1G |
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| 00:05.12 | yanmaani | without the browser, it goes down to 2.2G used |
| 00:05.14 | ndorf | is it safe to debootstrap stable from testing or unstable? |
| 00:06.05 | somiaj | ndorf: sure, debootstrap downloads the base componenets from online. If you chroot into the install, your kernel just needs to be able to run the binaries, but this should be fine with a modern kernel |
| 00:07.52 | ndorf | well, the docs warn against going in the other direction (debootstrap unstable or testing from stable), recommend installing the newer debootstrap pkg first |
| 00:08.03 | ndorf | so i was just hoping to check that going 'backwards' is guaranteed to work |
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| 00:15.51 | somiaj | I must have missed that in the docs, I haven't had issues using deboostrap from stable to make testing/unstable chroots, though I could see that there could possibly be an issue, but I haven't ran into one |
| 00:17.08 | somiaj | though were did you see that, I don't see such a warning in the manpage, and the stable man page gives an example of using the stable debootstrap to install a sid chroot |
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| 00:23.06 | abrotman | yanmaani: you cna paste the output of top to a pastebin (paste.debian.net) if you'd like us to look a bit more |
| 00:24.35 | abrotman | something like "top -b -n1 -o RES | head -n 20" maybe |
| 00:28.32 | fling | What is the package name with linux config? |
| 00:29.42 | fling | linux-base? |
| 00:29.52 | somiaj | fling: you mean the config in /boot/config-version? |
| 00:30.10 | fling | yes |
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| 00:30.18 | somiaj | fling: it is a part of the kernel linux-image-version |
| 00:30.33 | peebowo | l |
| 00:30.45 | fling | somiaj: thanks! |
| 00:30.53 | peebowo | beemindw9 |
| 00:30.56 | peebowo | oops |
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| 00:33.14 | fling | somiaj: https://packages.debian.org/stretch/linux-base |
| 00:33.17 | fling | somiaj: linux-base is 4.5 |
| 00:33.28 | fling | https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=stretch&arch=any&searchon=names&keywords=linux-image |
| 00:33.34 | fling | somiaj: but I don't see linux-image 4.5 |
| 00:33.56 | fling | I want a config for 4.4 or maybe 4.9 |
| 00:34.30 | somiaj | You need the full version of the exact kernel you want |
| 00:35.10 | somiaj | https://packages.debian.org/stretch/linux-image-4.9.0-15-amd64 for instance the current kernel (with security patches) for stretch and amd64 |
| 00:35.15 | fling | you mean debian version? I have no idea how to calculate/determine these ones |
| 00:35.27 | fling | how you got to that link? :D |
| 00:35.44 | fling | Is not there 4.4 anywhere? |
| 00:35.44 | somiaj | each kernel is going to have its own config, and you need to know which kernel you want the config of. |
| 00:35.50 | somiaj | ,kernels |
| 00:35.51 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.10.0-trunk-686 (5.10.2-1~exp1); sid: 5.10.0-6-686 (5.10.28-1); bullseye: 5.10.0-6-686 (5.10.28-1); buster-backports: 5.10.0-0.bpo.5-686-pae (5.10.24-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-16-686-pae (4.19.181-1); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.16-686 (4.19.181-1~deb9u1); jessie-backports: |
| 00:35.52 | judd | 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1) |
| 00:36.29 | somiaj | no debian release uses 4.4, if you want some strange kernel (unsure why you would want 4.4), you could find old packages on snapshot.debian.org and get the 4.4.X kernels from there |
| 00:36.41 | somiaj | fling: what is your actual goal (this is sounding like an XY problem) |
| 00:37.34 | fling | somiaj: want to build a 4.4 kernel to bisect alsa clicking in dac in an ice card |
| 00:38.04 | ndorf | somiaj: saw it at https://wiki.debian.org/Debootstrap, maybe i read too much into it |
| 00:38.51 | somiaj | ndorf: there could be changes in newer bootstraps that might help, but in general I haven't noticed the need. |
| 00:39.19 | somiaj | fling: quite an old kernel, any reason you are going back that far? Anyways, snapshot.debian.org has old kernels, you might be able to just download some images from there to test without building |
| 00:39.34 | ndorf | somiaj: good to know, thanks. |
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| 00:39.57 | fling | somiaj: I only remeber it working fine with 3.X kernel but I never tested with any recent one |
| 00:41.36 | fling | somiaj: found this one https://snapshot.debian.org/package/linux/4.4.1-1%7Eexp1/#linux-image-4.4.0-trunk-amd64_4.4.1-1:7e:exp1 |
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| 00:42.20 | somiaj | ndorf: so though I can undersatnd the logic of that recommendination, I haven't found it necessary. Note, I think the biggest issue would be deboostrap failing vs it silently creating a bad chroot. So I wouldn't worry to much about that, unless the deboostrap script itself fails. |
| 00:44.17 | somiaj | ndorf: https://tracker.debian.org/media/packages/d/debootstrap/changelog-1.0.123 -- looking at the change log, most changes I see are adding code names for newer debian derivatives, and a few bug fixes, though unless you run into the bug it may not be an issue. |
| 00:45.47 | fling | somiaj: yay got boot/config-4.4.0-trunk-amd64 thanks |
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| 00:47.20 | fling | never heard of https://snapshot.debian.org before |
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| 03:46.07 | FOSSGuy[m] | How to install this package on stable? https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/ibus-avro |
| 03:57.02 | somiaj | in general you don't |
| 03:57.14 | somiaj | ,v ibus-avro |
| 03:57.15 | judd | Package: ibus-avro on amd64 -- bullseye: 1.2-2; sid: 1.2-2 |
| 03:57.26 | somiaj | ,check-backport ibus-avro |
| 03:57.27 | judd | Backporting package ibus-avro in sidâbuster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 13). |
| 03:57.31 | jhutchins | Hey, if your squirrel-proof feeders are working, send me a link.b |
| 03:57.52 | jhutchins | !ssb |
| 03:57.52 | dpkg | First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>. |
| 03:58.00 | somiaj | FOSSGuy[m]: you might be able to make a backport and build it just fine, just need debhelper from backports as well |
| 03:59.17 | FOSSGuy[m] | When will bullseye release? If it's anytime soon, then I probably don't need it. |
| 03:59.40 | somiaj | this fall some time (I say 4-6 months) |
| 03:59.49 | FOSSGuy[m] | Awh |
| 04:00.32 | FOSSGuy[m] | Backporting will be useless after 4-6 months. So, I should install from bullseye or sid perhaps |
| 04:01.03 | somiaj | In general if you install from testing you will break your system and won't be supported, either (a) backport it yourself, (b) don't install it, (c) upgrade to bullseye |
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| 04:11.45 | jhutchins | FOSSGuy[m]: Dp you use your computer for actual work, or is it just a hobby to tinkner with? |
| 04:12.05 | FOSSGuy[m] | For actual work |
| 04:13.04 | jhutchins | FOSSGuy[m]: Stick with stable. Don't break it. |
| 04:13.28 | FOSSGuy[m] | This is a normal pkg with very few deps. So, would it still break? |
| 04:17.57 | somiaj | building a package isn't that hard, just backport the package if you want it |
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| 04:28.40 | themill | bullseye is probably going to be released in May (perhaps June, as there's some installer things to finish off) |
| 04:29.59 | somiaj | oh sonner than I thought |
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| 04:43.02 | FOSSGuy[m] | Is there any stats of Debian users, like how many use Stable, Testing or Unstable? |
| 04:43.36 | somiaj | !popcon |
| 04:43.37 | dpkg | hmm... popcon is the Debian Popularity contest, the basis for what packages appear on the first few CDs/DVDs etc (by rank). Install the popularity-contest package to participate. See the results at http://popcon.debian.org/ -- See the FAQ at http://popcon.debian.org/FAQ . Statistics are also available via IRC, /msg judd popcon $package |
| 04:43.56 | somiaj | you know the thing that it asks you if you want to participate in with each install, though unsure how many actually say yes (many do) |
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| 04:45.51 | jhutchins | FOSSGuy[m]: It depends on what you mean by "use". |
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| 04:46.52 | FOSSGuy[m] | By, use I mean they have installed debian Sid |
| 04:47.49 | somiaj | well according to popcon, 1.67 (buster/stable) : 113548 vs 1.71 (testing/unstable) : 16050 |
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| 04:48.31 | jhutchins | I think the distinction is if you use Debian as your working OS, or whether you are tweaking and tinkering on tinngs for your interest in sotware. |
| 04:51.11 | FOSSGuy[m] | Also, if I love newer pkgs |
| 04:51.38 | FOSSGuy[m] | Love everything of Debian and also newer pkgs |
| 04:52.57 | somiaj | I used sid as my desktop for years, but as I got older got tired of tinker/fixing things and found the relability of stable much better than newer packages all the time, though I also find I don't use much new software nowdays anways |
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| 06:02.48 | FOSSGuy[m] | Why does debian name python pkg in the opposite way? Python and python3, why not python2 and python? |
| 06:04.41 | rudi_s | FOSSGuy[m]: Because Python3 is way newer than the naming schema. |
| 06:05.06 | Unit193 | In bullseye you'll be able to install python-is-python3. |
| 06:05.10 | FOSSGuy[m] | When was the naming scheme used? |
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| 06:05.52 | somiaj | because if incompadabilities, and the fact so much system stuff depends on python, so it has taken a long time of careful planing to ensure things weren't broken or run in the wrong inturpiter |
| 06:06.07 | rudi_s | FOSSGuy[m]: When the first python(2) package was created. This was a long time ago. |
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| 06:07.05 | somiaj | until python3 came out and broke compadability, there was really no reason to call python by python2, so it was just called python, and that stuck, and debian took a stance to ensure that python = python2 during the life time of python2 to ensure that no system packages would break |
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| 06:08.17 | FOSSGuy[m] | W8 a sec. How old is buster? |
| 06:08.21 | Hash | FOSSGuy[m]: you are not limited to what debian calls it. Remember, this is a free software, which means you can modify it. |
| 06:08.44 | Hash | FOSSGuy[m]: you can setup alternatives for any version of pythonand call whatever you want, even dinkledonk. |
| 06:08.56 | somiaj | If you run debian buster, and link python to python3, you can and will break things |
| 06:09.10 | somiaj | FOSSGuy[m]: about 2 years, debian release are about 2 year until the next one. |
| 06:09.11 | FOSSGuy[m] | Awh, very sad. |
| 06:09.26 | rudi_s | FOSSGuy[m]: Buster is from 2019. BUt the naming schema of all packages stay the same over releases. |
| 06:09.49 | somiaj | Hash: that is fairly bad advise, you will break things by linking python to python3, bullseye will be the first time you won't break things |
| 06:09.51 | Hash | Remember, changing the alternatives name will cause issues as debian system depends on certain things. |
| 06:10.22 | somiaj | have seen numerous people here break apt because of wanting python -> python3, just overall a bad idea |
| 06:10.22 | FOSSGuy[m] | Ok then, can I set alias? |
| 06:10.41 | FOSSGuy[m] | Can I only change how they are called in my shell? |
| 06:10.59 | Hash | somiaj: I've never broken a system yet. Also, I'm not advising. I am attempting to shed light. The more you know. |
| 06:11.00 | somiaj | FOSSGuy[m]: that will have less effects, or just get use to calling it python3 |
| 06:11.04 | rudi_s | FOSSGuy[m]: Sure alias python=python3 - but how often do you call python from a shell? |
| 06:11.27 | FOSSGuy[m] | I'm learning python3 so it's necessary |
| 06:11.36 | somiaj | FOSSGuy[m]: A proper shebang line is good too |
| 06:11.44 | craigevil | use an IDE and create a virtual env |
| 06:11.44 | Hash | so jsut create an alias called py2 or py3 |
| 06:11.51 | Hash | eiher is shorter |
| 06:12.03 | rudi_s | FOSSGuy[m]: Well, either get used to type python3 instead of python or use a really short alias so it's worth the alias, e.g. alias p=python3 |
| 06:12.15 | FOSSGuy[m] | I like to use txt editor and terminal, craigevil :D |
| 06:12.30 | Hash | Emacs is good. |
| 06:12.32 | craigevil | uses vscode |
| 06:12.45 | Hash | I recommend stuff from the repository |
| 06:12.48 | Hash | Emacs or vim. |
| 06:14.49 | somiaj | though I find it funny that pyhon4 is now reversing the print syntax change of python3 (will work with both), though by this time it isn't as big of a deal |
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| 06:18.54 | rudi_s | Python4? Another round of breaking everything? |
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| 06:20.58 | FOSSGuy[m] | `$HOME/.local/bin` isn't being added to my user PATH though by default there is a .profile with it. Why? |
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| 06:22.13 | somiaj | Pay attention to the difference between login shells and interactive shells, launching a termianl is an interactive shell and .profile is not parsed. |
| 06:22.22 | somiaj | man bash and this info is near the top of the man page |
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| 06:28.11 | FOSSGuy[m] | So how to get it in my shell? |
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| 06:30.16 | somiaj | FOSSGuy[m]: use .bashrc for an interactive shell |
| 06:30.32 | somiaj | or if you added it to .profile, you may just need to logout and back in |
| 06:34.28 | rudi_s | Also if .bash_profile exists then .profile is not read |
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| 06:59.32 | Hash | If you switch shells, you will suffer problems. |
| 07:00.01 | Hash | Think global vs local. |
| 07:00.23 | Hash | Do you want the change in your shell's config, an alias, or do you want it to be system wide for all users? |
| 07:00.55 | Hash | Is any other user account on the system going to need this alias? Is another user's process ever run this python script? |
| 07:01.00 | Hash | Many things to consdier. |
| 07:08.29 | FOSSGuy[m] | Why does Debian mount /boot as `ro` by default? |
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| 07:09.59 | Rob_Jones | can i install a email client on a debian server? |
| 07:11.04 | MaxFrames | hi. what is the recommended way to disable the automatic startup of a service at boot (namely, dhcp server and arpwatch) without uninstalling it; on debian buster? |
| 07:12.44 | FOSSGuy[m] | `systemctl disable _unit_` |
| 07:13.22 | FOSSGuy[m] | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:13.31 | FOSSGuy[m] | <PROTECTED> |
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| 07:15.51 | MaxFrames | is ignorant |
| 07:16.08 | MaxFrames | is trying to understand if these are three separate commands and what is unit |
| 07:16.26 | FOSSGuy[m] | Unit is the service name you want to disable |
| 07:17.11 | MaxFrames | ok |
| 07:17.24 | FOSSGuy[m] | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:17.34 | FOSSGuy[m] | Fine |
| 07:17.47 | MaxFrames | so "systemctl disable arpwatch" (for example) should suffice? |
| 07:18.00 | MaxFrames | (assuming I'm su) |
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| 07:20.34 | FOSSGuy[m] | I don't knw the service name of arpwatch. consider checking wiki or the pkg doc. |
| 07:20.40 | rudi_s | FOSSGuy[m]: Debian doesn't mount /boot ro by default. At least I've never seen it. |
| 07:20.52 | MaxFrames | thanks |
| 07:21.11 | rudi_s | MaxFrames: Yes. systemctl status arpwatch to see its status. |
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| 07:22.00 | FOSSGuy[m] | Well, when installing with debootstrap, I found an fstab sample which mounts boot as ro. Also the EFI Stub in wiki configures /boot as ro. MaxFrames |
| 07:22.08 | FOSSGuy[m] | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:22.38 | MaxFrames | does not understand any of that |
| 07:22.53 | MaxFrames | maybe not for me? |
| 07:23.44 | rudi_s | MaxFrames: It's for me |
| 07:24.12 | rudi_s | FOSSGuy[m]: Well, the Debian installer doesn't do that. And there's no reason to mount /boot as ro, so don't do it?! |
| 07:24.39 | FOSSGuy[m] | Yeah. The eiki and the doc should be edited |
| 07:24.47 | FOSSGuy[m] | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:25.28 | FOSSGuy[m] | MaxFrames: 𤣠|
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| 07:27.07 | ratrace | MaxFrames: might require to mask in addition to disable, as disabling won't prevent a service to start as dependency |
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| 07:27.43 | MaxFrames | and how should I perform this? |
| 07:27.44 | ratrace | FOSSGuy[m]: please stop double posting. seems your client is doing some stupid here |
| 07:27.58 | rudi_s | FOSSGuy[m]: Well, feel free. |
| 07:28.12 | rudi_s | MaxFrames: systemctl mask arpwatch |
| 07:28.20 | MaxFrames | easy :) |
| 07:28.29 | ratrace | MaxFrames: the systemctl(1) manpage has more info on the commands. |
| 07:32.02 | jelly | FOSSGuy[m], correcting lines in matrix results in a completely new line on irc just prepended with a * |
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| 07:33.21 | FOSSGuy[m] | rudi_s: It's in the main doc, not in the wiki. It's an fstab example. https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/apds03.en.html - D.3.4.2. Mount Partitions |
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| 07:35.05 | FOSSGuy[m] | There are two #debian. One in freenode, another in OFTC? |
| 07:35.31 | tarzeau_ | FOSSGuy[m]: yes |
| 07:35.34 | rudi_s | FOSSGuy[m]: Looks quite outdated, I think patches are welcome |
| 07:36.16 | FOSSGuy[m] | Both are official? tarzeau_ |
| 07:36.50 | ratrace | FOSSGuy[m]: https://wiki.debian.org/IRC |
| 07:37.44 | FOSSGuy[m] | Well so only the one in OFTC is official. :O |
| 07:38.21 | jelly | this channel is the unofficial official one. |
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| 07:38.53 | ratrace | and they'll pry freenode out of my cold dead hands. |
| 07:40.17 | FOSSGuy[m] | jelly: Haha ð |
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| 07:53.51 | MaxFrames | I also need to change the ip address, and apparently it was set up using NetworkManager, so I should use nmcli, right? |
| 07:54.21 | MaxFrames | I can see the current configuration in /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections/'Wired connection 1' |
| 07:54.42 | ratrace | MaxFrames: depends. Are you sure NM actually set it? Wired are usually defined via /etc/network/interfaces and by default NM will not touch interfaces defined there |
| 07:55.09 | MaxFrames | I am assuming, because /etc/network/interfaces is basically empty |
| 07:55.35 | MaxFrames | just an entry for the loopback interface there |
| 07:55.36 | ratrace | and /etc/network/interfaces.d/ ? |
| 07:57.05 | MaxFrames | empty |
| 07:57.52 | ratrace | then I suppose NM it is. Why nmcli? do you not have a GUI there? NM is primarily useful in a GUI environment |
| 07:58.15 | MaxFrames | yes, I am having an issue with the GUI |
| 07:59.05 | MaxFrames | the machine is a VM in an Hyper-V host; and whenever I open the GUI console and access NetworkManager, for some reason I am being logged out to the logon screen |
| 07:59.25 | MaxFrames | which is worrying per se... :/ |
| 07:59.56 | MaxFrames | I am logging on as the same user I am using with ssh, for what is worth |
| 08:00.11 | MaxFrames | I don't get any message of any sort, just slammed back to the logon screen |
| 08:00.38 | MaxFrames | to be honest, that is the first time I try to use the GUI, at least in a looong while |
| 08:01.19 | ratrace | what "logon"? VM's/desktop's, like gmd or another display manager? Or some hyper-v virtual console thing? |
| 08:01.23 | ratrace | *gdm |
| 08:01.50 | MaxFrames | the Debian "welcome screen" with the list of users |
| 08:02.36 | ratrace | and that's a default desktop setup? GNOME? |
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| 08:03.24 | MaxFrames | yes, I really think it's the default GNOME |
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| 08:04.34 | MaxFrames | as soon as I try to click on the gear icon next to "wired connection 1" in the GUI, the screen goes black for a few seconds and then I'm back to the welcome screen |
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| 08:06.52 | ratrace | MaxFrames: there should be a clue in dmesng or journalctl with timestamps at the time that happens. seen any? |
| 08:06.57 | ratrace | *dmesg |
| 08:08.19 | ratrace | journalctl should include both. you can try again, and then via ssh type journalctl --since '1 minute ago' (for example) and see what it spills out |
| 08:08.49 | MaxFrames | ok, doing that now |
| 08:08.50 | ratrace | (assuming this happened within the minute of you typing out that journalctl command) |
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| 08:09.39 | ratrace | you can add a | tee somefile.txt so it both displays and outputs into somefile.txt which you can use to send to a paste site for us, if you know how to do that |
| 08:10.39 | MaxFrames | uuh... "unrecoverable failure in required component org.gnome.Shell.desktop |
| 08:11.52 | ratrace | full text to a paste site would be most helpful. simplest is, if you piped via tee to somefile.txt to use netcat. cat somefile.txt | nc termbin.com 9999 and then post here the URL you get |
| 08:13.00 | MaxFrames | just a minute, trying |
| 08:13.47 | ratrace | MaxFrames: check if you have netcat installed first, I'm not sure it's default |
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| 08:17.19 | MaxFrames | got it https://pastebin.com/TMb7nW11 |
| 08:18.04 | MaxFrames | I would say trouble starts at line 18 |
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| 08:19.25 | MaxFrames | or even line 13 |
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| 08:20.25 | ratrace | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:20.51 | ratrace | problem with gnome logs is that many things are logged as errors but nothing visibly happens. gnome is really a steaming pile of .... |
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| 08:23.36 | MaxFrames | signal 6 = generic error? |
| 08:24.57 | ratrace | dunno if that's some gnome specific code, or unix signal(7), where 6 is SIGABRT |
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| 08:25.30 | ratrace | and the errors afterwards, dunno if those are caused by the shell being killed, and there's also a xorg error |
| 08:26.10 | ratrace | which could also be a consequence of shell going away |
| 08:26.11 | fling | What package for ast xorg driver? |
| 08:26.33 | MaxFrames | couldn't line 26 be the (or one of the) problem(s)? |
| 08:26.36 | ratrace | MaxFrames: do you have any third party gnome extensions installed? I read they can cause such behaviour |
| 08:27.02 | MaxFrames | "unable to open shared object file: file or directory does not exist" |
| 08:27.23 | MaxFrames | I don't think I have any, but I would like to make sure |
| 08:27.34 | jelly | fling, try searching with: apt-cache search xserver xorg ast |
| 08:27.43 | ratrace | MaxFrames: possible, but I doubt it given the timestamps. that lib belongs to pipewire tho |
| 08:27.55 | MaxFrames | this was a stock debian 10 install, not really meant to be used with the gui, and I installed it fromscratch |
| 08:27.56 | fling | jelly: no results |
| 08:27.59 | MaxFrames | i.e. not upgraded |
| 08:28.04 | jelly | fling, which debian release is this? |
| 08:28.16 | fling | will check later, turned it off⦠|
| 08:28.50 | ratrace | MaxFrames: in that case ... you can always do things via ssh. reconfigure the network to be used like the penguin gods intended: via interfaces(5) or if you prefer systemd-networkd(8) |
| 08:28.53 | jelly | fling, if it's turned off, how did you immediately say "no results"? |
| 08:29.08 | fling | searched prior asking |
| 08:29.17 | jelly | using that exact command line? |
| 08:29.29 | ratrace | MaxFrames: including removing that garden gnome clown from your system :) |
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| 08:30.38 | MaxFrames | I am fine with using ssh, though I would like, just because I'm a perfectionist, to also fix the issue with gnome, maybe later |
| 08:30.58 | ratrace | MaxFrames: another thing .... did you revert the NIC name to ethX ? You said it was stock debian 10 install, but that's not default on debian. Is this some ... modified.... hosting company debian image pre-installed? |
| 08:31.12 | ratrace | MaxFrames: One Does Not Simply Fix Issues With GNOME (TM) |
| 08:31.35 | jelly | fling, if it really was that exact command line, then something might be wrong with your sources.list. If it's debian 10, |
| 08:31.43 | jelly | dpkg, tell fling about buster sources.list |
| 08:32.14 | MaxFrames | ratrace: tbh I don't remember. I don't think I chose the 'Wired connection 1' name, because I would probably have used an Italian name |
| 08:33.04 | ratrace | that's a default name for ethernet in GNOME. |
| 08:33.16 | MaxFrames | anyway, since I want to make as few modifications to the system as possible (since I don't trust my debian skills...), and apparently it's set up to use network-manager, I would prefer using nmcli |
| 08:33.20 | jelly | even italian gnome? |
| 08:33.45 | ratrace | MaxFrames: same, even greater level of skill is required to manage the network with nmcli |
| 08:33.48 | MaxFrames | the system locale is italian, gnome is using the italian language |
| 08:34.46 | MaxFrames | ratrace: sorry, I realized now that you were talking about eth0, not the "user friendly" label |
| 08:35.28 | MaxFrames | I'm pretty sure I did not set it up like that (not conscioulsy at least!) |
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| 08:36.36 | ratrace | MaxFrames: well it's not default on debian. what installation media did you use? |
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| 08:37.58 | MaxFrames | I really think I used an ISO downloaded from the offical site |
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| 08:39.18 | ratrace | MaxFrames: I really think you're not saying the whole truth here. ethX won't magically set itself up. so ehtierr you did it, or that's some preinstalled or not even debian, system which then means it can have an infinite amount of unknown combinations we cannot support without knowing what they are |
| 08:40.12 | MaxFrames | ratrace: I'm not sure what you mean by "saying the whole truth". I am saying what I recall... it's been a while and I had not documented the process |
| 08:41.09 | MaxFrames | may be the interface name depends on the fact that this is a virtual machine inside a Windows Server Hyper-V Failover Cluster? so the virtual network adapter was added by Hyper-V? |
| 08:41.25 | ratrace | MaxFrames: well it's gonna be hard to fix something that's invisible or unseen. in which case I would really recommend you simplify things as much as possible, and use interfaces(5) for wired .. I assuming it'd DHCP? |
| 08:41.36 | MaxFrames | other than that, I really don't know. I don't remotely possess the knowledge to mess with interface names |
| 08:41.53 | MaxFrames | it's static IP addressing |
| 08:41.55 | ratrace | MaxFrames: no. ethX is generic kernel name, which udev then renames based on a set of rules around PCI topology and other criteria |
| 08:42.15 | ratrace | one has to deliberately configure udev (Eg. via net.ifnames=0 kernel command line) to stop the renaming from generic names |
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| 08:43.34 | ratrace | MaxFrames: as for that gnome crashing, my bets are on a broken extension OR maybe it being hyper-v, and gnome requiring advanced opengl support, something in that overlay is maybe crashing xorg |
| 08:43.37 | MaxFrames | I am fine with switching from nm to interfaces, but I will have to make sure I follow the right steps.... I guess I will have to disable nm.... |
| 08:44.06 | MaxFrames | the problem is that if I do that from ssh, I will lose the connection... so I need to do it from the vm console |
| 08:44.24 | ratrace | wouldn't believe it but yes, I've seen opening a menu in a gnome client side decoration button, doing werid graphic glitches and crashing xorg |
| 08:44.41 | MaxFrames | as long as the terminal does not crash in the hyperv console, I should manage |
| 08:44.53 | ratrace | MaxFrames: can you do it from a terminal in the vm console, so you don't trigger the crash via NM GUI icon? |
| 08:45.02 | MaxFrames | yes that is what I hope to do |
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| 08:47.29 | MaxFrames | well, terminal does not seem to crash gnome |
| 08:47.36 | MaxFrames | so far, at least... |
| 08:48.23 | ratrace | MaxFrames: btw what was the initial reason you went into all this? Need to change the static IP? |
| 08:48.49 | MaxFrames | yes |
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| 08:49.27 | MaxFrames | basically the vm is going on a different vlan, so I need to change its ip address (static) and disable two services that will not be needed in the new vlan |
| 08:49.58 | MaxFrames | the machine was an openvpn server + isc-dhcp-server + arpwatch daemon, and only openvpn will stay |
| 08:50.18 | ratrace | MaxFrames: first confirm that your NIC is named eth0, and if you ahve any other NICs, other than lo. `ip l` will give you a nic summary |
| 08:50.26 | ratrace | or `ip a` with addresses |
| 08:51.13 | MaxFrames | I have lo, eth0 and tun0 (the latter is used by openvpn) |
| 08:51.51 | ratrace | MaxFrames: do you have net.ifnames=0 in the kernel command line? grep ifnames /proc/cmdline |
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| 08:55.26 | MaxFrames | grep ifnames /proc/cmdline returns nothing |
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| 08:56.24 | ShiroNeko | hi. short question about etc interfaces and dns-nameservers. how do i configure a different port for a nameserver. would be "dns-nameservers 10.1.1.2:5301" enough? |
| 08:56.46 | ratrace | MaxFrames: and running `networkctl` states that systemd-networkd is not running, correct? |
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| 08:58.41 | MaxFrames | exactly. "WARNING: systemd-network is not running, output will be incomplete." |
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| 08:59.39 | MaxFrames | if this sequence of commands would work, I could avoid having to switch methods perhaps, what do you think? https://pastebin.com/agv8GvZ1 |
| 09:01.18 | ratrace | MaxFrames: you can use eth0 instead of "Wired connection 1" and I'd set that addres in CIDR notation |
| 09:02.18 | MaxFrames | yes sorry I forgot the subnet |
| 09:02.40 | MaxFrames | nmcli con mod eth0 ipv4.addresses xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx/25 |
| 09:02.41 | ratrace | otherwise I suppose it looks good, assuming teh values you'll give it are correct |
| 09:02.49 | jelly | ShiroNeko, I don't think you can. man resolv.conf (where that config usually ends up) says nothing about ports. |
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| 09:06.09 | ratrace | MaxFrames: btw, there's nmtui for a nice text console dialog setup |
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| 09:11.06 | MaxFrames | well, that looks like a winner! |
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| 09:14.45 | MaxFrames | thanks, looks like I'm all set up. too bad for the gnome |
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| 09:26.16 | ratrace | MaxFrames: if you need a "backup UI" on that server, you can install xfce |
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| 09:26.48 | ratrace | it can coexist with gnome at the expense of few hundred MB more used on disk |
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| 09:48.17 | jhutchins | Backup UI is the console, not another GUI. |
| 09:50.55 | ratrace | jhutchins: on a server? |
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| 09:57.01 | jhutchins | ratrace: Why would you have a GUI on a server? |
| 09:58.04 | jhutchins | Good grief, gnome on a server. So wrong, |
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| 10:03.21 | jelly | gnomes can go wherever they bloody want. #ExitGarden |
| 10:03.50 | jhutchins | Yeah, as long as they stay off my servers. |
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| 10:22.28 | shtrb | jhutchins, it could be worse it could be windows server :P |
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| 10:25.33 | ratrace | shtrb: or worse.... WSL2 gnome on windows 10 VM on azure |
| 10:28.17 | jelly | ratrace, that's actually something very close to what I might be forced to do soon |
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| 10:30.27 | ratrace | hand over your gun and badge on your way out of #debian. |
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| 10:42.14 | shtrb | how can you run gnome under wsl ? I think it requrie dbus to work and I doubt you could have dbus to work under wsl |
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| 10:42.38 | shtrb | jelly, April 1'st is over |
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| 10:46.08 | ratrace | shtrb: WSL2 is whole lee nuks kernel in domU |
| 10:46.43 | ratrace | can even play games if you trust the random google result on the subject :) |
| 10:47.24 | shtrb | ratrace, I know I could have X and even some games but I had failed to make dbus work for me |
| 10:47.47 | ratrace | I don't see why dbus would be any special. note: WSL2, not WSL1 |
| 10:47.57 | shtrb | Oh crap , sorry |
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| 10:48.22 | ratrace | WSL1 is literally a bash shell in a pseudo-virtualized NT process with shims aka reverse-WINE, aka WLS IS NOT LINUX aka WINL. |
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| 10:54.39 | jelly | Debian userspace will not care whether the kernel interfaces are provided by WSL or UML or a paravirtualized kernel or a real kernel. If it can run Debian userspace built for Linux, it's still GNU/Linux |
| 10:55.10 | jelly | so Debian installed from Microsoft store? Still Debian. |
| 10:55.29 | ratrace | no, it's !based on debian at best |
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| 10:55.49 | ratrace | but thing is, WSL1 is lacking some kernel facilities that WSL2 has because there's full lee nuks kernel running |
| 10:55.54 | jelly | I strongly disagree and I think we should support it. |
| 10:56.06 | ratrace | WSL2 is more like xen, WSL1 is more like WINE |
| 10:56.18 | jelly | WSL1 is like UML. |
| 10:56.19 | shtrb | [buster[ Anyone with nvme can verify a minor bug https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=211573 , it's enough to do alt sysrq uksb (kernel from backports) |
| 10:56.48 | shtrb | and after the reboot check if the number of nvme errors had risen |
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| 10:57.24 | shtrb | *with 5.10 kernel from backports |
| 11:00.05 | ratrace | shtrb: seems specific to that SSD. I have some AMD servers with nvmes where I had to use the backports kernel because 4.19 wouldn't work properly ; no such errors, but those ain't evo 970 |
| 11:00.40 | shtrb | Thanks |
| 11:01.19 | shtrb | I'm having the same thing , but I only have one nvme to check with (but I get similar issues with both 5.9 and 5.10) |
| 11:02.04 | badsektor | is there a way to see wqhen i installed my debian? |
| 11:02.17 | shtrb | ratrace , with an older samsung drive and not an evo |
| 11:02.19 | tarzeau_ | badsektor: /var/log/dpkg* |
| 11:02.51 | badsektor | thanks |
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| 11:35.26 | segamain | 'W: Target Packages (main/binary-amd64/Packages) is configured multiple times in /etc/apt/sources.list:8 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24 |
| 11:35.26 | segamain | ' when I do 'apt install' how are there two sources lists ? and why can't I install ? |
| 11:37.51 | cws | It says exactly where the duplication exists. |
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| 11:38.15 | segamain | so should I just delete it ? |
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| 11:39.45 | pikaburk | Hello |
| 11:39.51 | pikaburk | I have screen problem |
| 11:40.03 | pikaburk | wrong color |
| 11:40.21 | pikaburk | https://i.ibb.co/0VbHHQ6/IMG-20210421-132136.jpg https://i.ibb.co/2vtKHJq/IMG-20210421-132123.jpg |
| 11:40.31 | pikaburk | how solved that please ? |
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| 11:48.13 | pikaburk | Hello |
| 11:48.15 | pikaburk | back |
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| 11:52.19 | segamain | pikaburk: I don't see the problem that theme is sick |
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| 11:52.49 | segamain | pikabruk: how did you do that ? |
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| 11:57.14 | pikaburk | when I'm back on my computer after screensaver |
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| 11:57.30 | pikaburk | false color |
| 11:57.38 | pikaburk | maybe is xorg ? |
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| 12:00.32 | ratrace | pikaburk: seems like driver issues or hardware issues. "back from screensaver" .. does it actually mean resuming from suspend? does it suspend or hibernate before that happens? |
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| 12:03.06 | pikaburk | suspend |
| 12:03.09 | pikaburk | and hibernate |
| 12:03.47 | pikaburk | and I can't create account on http://forums.debian.net/ |
| 12:03.55 | pikaburk | for post my subject problem |
| 12:04.02 | pikaburk | say my IP is banned |
| 12:04.16 | pikaburk | I never create account on this forum |
| 12:05.27 | jelly | pikaburk, does switching to Ctrl-Alt-F3 or some other text console, and back (usually Ctrl-Alt-F7, maybe F2) make it better? |
| 12:06.22 | pikaburk | don't solve |
| 12:06.30 | pikaburk | maybe hardware problem |
| 12:06.35 | pikaburk | no |
| 12:06.43 | pikaburk | drivers problem with xorg |
| 12:06.51 | ratrace | pikaburk: it's likely that the GPU is having an issue with suspend/hibernation cycle |
| 12:07.12 | ratrace | I had experience with nvidias having such issues, but those were complete black screens on resume, not garbled color |
| 12:07.30 | pikaburk | maybe I need to change my drivers ? |
| 12:07.40 | pikaburk | but, need to read manual or wiki |
| 12:07.47 | ratrace | pikaburk: is that intel gpu, on cpu? |
| 12:07.48 | pikaburk | I'm on HP laptop with radeon |
| 12:08.00 | pikaburk | ammd |
| 12:08.12 | ratrace | oh radeon. you could try perhaps using a newer kernel from buster-backports. |
| 12:08.57 | ratrace | and/or check that you have firmware-amd-graphics installed . I don't know if you can even run radeon gpus without that package |
| 12:09.19 | pikaburk | lspci -nn | grep VGA |
| 12:09.21 | pikaburk | 00:01.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Wrestler [Radeon HD 7340] [1002:9808] |
| 12:10.40 | pikaburk | ok ratrace |
| 12:11.03 | pikaburk | I'm trying to reinstall that xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu annd xserver-xorg-video-ati |
| 12:12.30 | ratrace | pikaburk: why? |
| 12:13.13 | pikaburk | I'm on wiki |
| 12:13.23 | pikaburk | they say me after that purge nvidia drivers |
| 12:13.48 | pikaburk | for have accelerated AMD drivers |
| 12:13.52 | pikaburk | and Install the firmware-amd-graphics, libgl1-mesa-dri, libglx-mesa0, mesa-vulkan-drivers, and xserver-xorg-video-all packages: |
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| 12:15.25 | pikaburk | I'm reboot |
| 12:15.52 | ratrace | <jackie-chan-meme.jpg> |
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| 12:17.43 | darsie | What's the testing channel on oftc? |
| 12:18.08 | ratrace | !debian-next |
| 12:18.09 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc |
| 12:18.28 | darsie | thx |
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| 12:36.31 | Rembo | i have installed proxmox on Debian 10 with a public IP, I created a vps inside and i cannot reach the internet, ping from node to vps works, any suggestions? |
| 12:37.12 | cws | You're going to want ##proxmox, Rembo . |
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| 12:53.07 | jelly | ,v python3.7 |
| 12:53.08 | judd | Package: python3.7 on amd64 -- buster: 3.7.3-2+deb10u3 |
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| 12:54.08 | hiya | https://share.riseup.net/#al5LAAKPjW9yqp-sDExh1A | some char won't appear in browser, it shows in a frame like icon |
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| 12:54.43 | jelly | hiya, which browser, which debian release |
| 12:55.01 | ratrace | missing utf-8 fonts with those particular glyphs |
| 12:55.06 | hiya | jelly: ESR, debian 11 |
| 12:55.21 | hiya | ratrace: what should I install? |
| 12:55.40 | jelly | hiya, some Korean fonts? |
| 12:55.41 | jelly | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fxxHCc8gGk |
| 12:55.47 | ratrace | hiya: don't know what the glyphs are. but I usually have such issues if I don't install the noto fonts |
| 12:56.13 | ratrace | fonts-noto(-all of them) |
| 12:56.23 | hiya | jelly: yes |
| 12:56.27 | hiya | Ok I install them |
| 12:56.36 | ratrace | ,i fonts-noto |
| 12:56.39 | judd | Package fonts-noto (fonts, optional) in buster/amd64: metapackage to pull in all Noto fonts. Version: 20181227-1; Size: 19.6k; Installed: 34k; Homepage: https://www.google.com/get/noto/ |
| 12:56.44 | ratrace | yeah, just this one, it'll pull in the others |
| 12:57.12 | hiya | Need to get 285 MB of archives. |
| 12:57.12 | hiya | After this operation, 771 MB of additional disk space will be used. |
| 12:57.16 | hiya | Too big? |
| 12:57.19 | ratrace | yeah noto are damned bi |
| 12:57.21 | ratrace | *big |
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| 12:57.31 | jelly | hiya, how large is your disk? |
| 12:57.38 | hiya | 512GB nvme |
| 12:57.48 | hiya | fresh install on laptop, ripped Windows |
| 12:57.48 | jelly | and you care about 800MB why? |
| 12:58.03 | ratrace | hiya: so you can install noto fonts more than 500 times over :) |
| 12:58.03 | hiya | Just wondering if installing 800MB of fonts is right fix for this |
| 12:58.17 | ratrace | hiya: TIAS |
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| 12:58.24 | jelly | you are welcome to hunt for some other fix |
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| 12:58.29 | jelly | hiya, apt-cache search fonts korean |
| 12:58.40 | ratrace | you can always uninstall if that doesn't fix, but I'm willing to bet five virtual shillings it's gonna FixIt(tm) |
| 12:59.07 | hiya | ok installing |
| 13:01.10 | ratrace | don't forget to restart the fox after you install the fonts |
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| 13:01.40 | hiya | https://share.riseup.net/#Y7kZazXM0ZFFjf3f1C1eKg jelly |
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| 13:02.56 | jelly | hiya, try one by one of those that say "korean" in the description and start with fonts- and see what happens |
| 13:03.14 | jelly | if you don't like noto |
| 13:04.04 | ratrace | noto covers a lot of codecs, not just korean tho |
| 13:04.09 | hiya | fonts are installed |
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| 13:04.23 | jelly | Hangul is the name of the script, so those are also Korean |
| 13:04.49 | jelly | noto set is like most/all of CJK |
| 13:04.55 | hiya | it works without reloading firefox |
| 13:04.59 | hiya | Thanks :) |
| 13:05.19 | hiya | I think it is the power of 11th gen with M1 like scores |
| 13:05.44 | hiya | minus microwave like temp [sorry for off-topic] |
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| 13:09.37 | MaxFrames | re |
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| 13:10.10 | MaxFrames | after a bit of research, I now think that my problem with GNOME crashing may be related to some invalid data in the icon cache |
| 13:10.19 | MaxFrames | https://pastebin.com/TMb7nW11 => line 19 |
| 13:11.24 | MaxFrames | all I've found is an old bug report for Ubuntu, but the problem was the same and it was suggested that some icon caused GNOME to crash, which would be consistent with my scenario (it crashes when I try to open some specific windows in the GUI) |
| 13:11.42 | MaxFrames | how to determine which icon(s) are culprit is the problem |
| 13:12.07 | MaxFrames | or maybe I could refresh the icon cache and hope it was stale data... but I dunno how |
| 13:13.28 | MaxFrames | this post here (again ubuntu) relates the issue to using an icon theme https://github.com/keeferrourke/la-capitaine-icon-theme/issues/375 |
| 13:13.49 | MaxFrames | I am not intentionally aware of using any theme other than what was installed by default |
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| 13:14.49 | mtn | MaxFrames: how about making a new user, log in as the new user. do you have the same problem? |
| 13:15.09 | MaxFrames | I'd have to try |
| 13:15.31 | MaxFrames | this is a rather critical machine for me so I've reduced changes to a minimum |
| 13:18.13 | MaxFrames | the selected theme, as per the gui, is some "Adwaita (default)" |
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| 13:38.00 | aaii | Hi guys, I'm installing debian in virt-manager(kvm) but during the installation when It's unpacking linux-image the virtual machine will be paused automate, And I can't resume it . So I can't install it in virt-manager. Is there any Idea about it? |
| 13:38.33 | ratrace | aaii: "paused"? or do you mean it's hanging? |
| 13:38.38 | ratrace | did you give it sufficient RAM? |
| 13:39.14 | aaii | ratrace, I meant paused in virtual machines. Yeah I gave it 2 GB |
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| 13:43.13 | aaii-z | ratrace, Sorry I disconnected,If you sent a message please sent it again |
| 13:45.03 | aaii-z | https://imgur.com/6MzVMZll.png |
| 13:45.47 | aaii-z | ^ It's the picture of situation I said. |
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| 14:04.09 | aaii-z | Solved , Problem was my cache was full :| |
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| 14:49.23 | MaxFrames | is there (and if so, what is it) a command to force a purge/refresh of the gnome icon cache (possibly iconcache.c?) in debian 10? |
| 14:49.45 | MaxFrames | maybe "Run gtk-update-icon-cache"? |
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| 14:58.27 | jelly | MaxFrames, did you verify if logging in as fresh newly created user fixed the issue? |
| 14:59.06 | MaxFrames | not yet, I will do it on monday after the weekly backup, just to be extra cautious |
| 14:59.07 | jelly | because if it didn't then it's a global problem and not something in user's cache |
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| 15:04.24 | shtrb | what package in plasma + buster provide "Software Center" ? |
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| 15:08.54 | shtrb | wtf , it's gnome package ?! |
| 15:12.06 | ratrace | ,i plasma-discover |
| 15:12.07 | judd | Package plasma-discover (kde, optional) in buster/amd64: Discover software management suite. Version: 5.14.5.1-1; Size: 1040.6k; Installed: 2307k; Homepage: https://projects.kde.org/projects/kde/workspace/discover; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/plasma-discover |
| 15:12.09 | ratrace | this thing? |
| 15:12.26 | shtrb | no , I already had discover |
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| 15:12.49 | ratrace | then what do you mean by "Software center"? |
| 15:13.26 | ratrace | "Software Center" is the name of GNOME's variant. |
| 15:13.33 | shtrb | That the annoying part I don't get , I got desktop icons for "Software Center" in plasma but I couldn't understand which package should provide because when ever I clicked it would crash |
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| 15:14.03 | ratrace | shtrb: what do the icons try to Exec? |
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| 15:17.27 | shtrb | I would get "KIO error could not find handler for appstream://application-name" I need to find what allowed me these shortcuts , I'll try to reinstall discover maybe it would solve really |
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| 15:19.18 | ratrace | shtrb: but what's written in the corresponding .desktop fiiles? |
| 15:19.47 | shtrb | part of my problem is to find the offending desktop files (that why I asked what it is ) |
| 15:20.13 | ratrace | oh I assumed by "desktop icons" you mean they're in ~/Desktop |
| 15:20.23 | ratrace | can you right click on one, maybe there's more info |
| 15:20.53 | shtrb | no sorry ,I was not clear that was via the popup under krunner |
| 15:23.23 | ratrace | shtrb: grep -ri --include='*.desktop' Exec ~/ |
| 15:23.44 | th0r | shtrb, or how about 'locate .desktop'? |
| 15:24.14 | th0r | shtrb, course, grep is so much more 1337 |
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| 15:25.29 | ratrace | the difference is that the grep immediately shows you the Exec line. locatedb only finds the .desktop files |
| 15:26.50 | shtrb | Ok , ratrace idea about discover solved it , reinstalling discover solve the idiotic problem |
| 15:28.39 | shtrb | And removing + purging it will cause that problem - seems to be a plasma bug |
| 15:28.41 | shtrb | sorry |
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| 16:27.43 | EdePopede | can you imagine the disconnect (to all my irc networks) i just had was caused by just updating a handful packages? |
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| 16:28.15 | oxek | that sounds odd |
| 16:28.19 | oxek | why would that happen? |
| 16:28.33 | EdePopede | load during unpacking .xz |
| 16:29.12 | greycat | you're using a bouncer on a VPS with very limited memory? |
| 16:29.23 | EdePopede | i already have put office and java on hold, don't use them anyway. during the period when they were updated frequently (yes, i'm on oldstable) it happened all the time |
| 16:29.44 | greycat | "office" ... so nope. |
| 16:30.21 | ratrace | cheapo vps + ssh + tmux + irssi == gobs of fun for family and friends! |
| 16:30.33 | EdePopede | rather 12.5yrs old pc, 2gb RAN, swap on 80gb, though the last one may not be relevant in this case |
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| 16:31.49 | EdePopede | CPU: Dual Core AMD Athlon 64 X2 6400+ (-MCP-) speed/min/max: 2200/1000/3200 MHz |
| 16:31.49 | EdePopede | Kernel: 4.9.0-8-amd64 x86_64 Up: 55d 21h 03m Mem: 1151.5/2003.3 MiB (57.5%) |
| 16:31.49 | EdePopede | Storage: 10.99 TiB (0.3% used) Procs: 199 Client: HexChat 2.12.4 inxi: 3.0.38 |
| 16:32.01 | EdePopede | uh? weird combo of options i gues |
| 16:32.27 | EdePopede | rather cheap pc, which it was already in 2008 xD |
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| 16:33.42 | EdePopede | when i started noticing it i checked some packages and found out debian was starting to replace bz2 with xz. ran some tests and it was a real difference. |
| 16:33.59 | EdePopede | at least the compress ratio is fantastic |
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| 16:54.59 | topoi | It's not directly debian related, but I'l give it a try: Is someone using squid? My squid is suddenly refusing connections, but the log says it's listening just fine. How'd I debug it? |
| 16:56.46 | greycat | telnet to the squid port from the same host, then from another host. use ss or netstat to verify that it's listening on the right interface(s). |
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| 17:15.11 | karlpinc | EdePopede: xz uses lots of ram. It made decompression really slow on a old 686 with 128MB of ram I ran until a few years ago. |
| 17:17.04 | greycat | even bzip2 was noted to use a lot more memory than gzip, when bzip2 was new |
| 17:17.58 | topoi | greycat: Thanks. I could connect from both nodes. What's the expected protocol to speak? I successfully tried on the server with "squidclient", but when I try "curl -v -x 127.0.0.1:3128 http://debian.org" I just get the page for "Access Denied.", although I have "http_access allow localhost" in my squid.conf |
| 17:18.49 | greycat | testing with telnet is just about making sure you can actually *make* a connection; you don't need to try to pass an actual HTTP request, although you can if you really want to |
| 17:19.26 | greycat | if you made the connection without getting "Connection refused" or a timeout, then the next step would be to check squid's logs |
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| 17:20.59 | greycat | it's been a long time since I set up squid, but the default config shipped by Debian is probably tightly restricted, and you may need to edit it to allow other hosts to use the proxy |
| 17:23.10 | topoi | I get some pesky "TCP_DENIED/403" in the logs, which is strange as localhost is allowed. :/ |
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| 17:24.00 | topoi | You're right, maybe I just get the original config and start from there again. |
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| 17:26.40 | greycat | https://askubuntu.com/questions/1051554/squid-tcp-denied-403-4037-get-http-detectportal-firefox-com-success-txt-hier |
| 17:26.43 | Rob_Jones | is it possible to make a postfix webserver with a roundcube client that connects via nginx on debian? |
| 17:26.59 | topoi | greycat: Me too, I configured some long time ago and it worked. I used to tunnel via SSH so only localhost was needed and there was never a reason to change the config. =) I asked, because maybe there was an update or likewise.. |
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| 17:27.22 | topoi | Rob_Jones: I don't see what speaks against this particular setting. |
| 17:27.36 | Rob_Jones | i just cant seem to find a good guide |
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| 17:33.47 | dsusman | Greetings. Is there anybody involved with grub-common here? |
| 17:34.15 | sney | dsusman: this is a support channel, not a development channel. are you having a grub problem? |
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| 17:35.55 | dsusman | Yeah, it's already been reported @ bugs, but it hasn't got any traction - There's an issue of grub-common not using labels to mount root devices. UUIDs must be use at all costs, apparently, when there's more than one volume/disk on the system. |
| 17:36.01 | sney | dsusman: if you need to reach the package maintainers, it's best to file a bug, and/or follow up by emailing pkg-grub-devel@alioth-lists.debian.net |
| 17:36.32 | dsusman | Yeah, I think I'll have to push through that route. Thank you for suggesting it. :) |
| 17:36.46 | sney | np |
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| 17:37.01 | Franciman | Hi |
| 17:37.17 | Franciman | usually how much times passes between the full freeze and a new debian stable release? |
| 17:37.46 | karlpinc | Rob_Jones: The readme.debian is sometimes helpful.... |
| 17:37.53 | karlpinc | !tell Rob_Jones about readme.debian |
| 17:38.07 | sney | Franciman: around 6-8 months or so |
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| 17:42.18 | Franciman | thanks sney sensei |
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| 17:42.25 | sney | np |
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| 17:49.42 | topoi | greycat: Yeah, I already read some sites including this before daring to ask grey cats.. :3 I found the problem from the client part (SSH tunneling) without understanding it, so I assume I have some thouroughly misunderstanding: when I used "-L 3128:127.0.0.1:3128" I got some message about proxy refusing connections, but not so with "-L 3128:localhost:3128"!! o.0 |
| 17:50.15 | topoi | wtf.. I understood localhost just an alias for 127.0.0.1 as declared in /etc/hosts?! |
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| 17:50.52 | cws | topoi: specifying the loopback address makes it bind only to ipv4. specifying the localhost hostname binds to ipv4 and ipv6. By default, localhost will resolve to the ipv6 version, ::1/128. |
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| 17:52.24 | EdePopede | topoi: i remember having been totally confused when i've read the same in a mysql book years back. |
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| 17:54.51 | topoi | cws: Ahh, of course, I just should have read the second line of my /etc/hosts! =) |
| 17:55.13 | cws | So yeah, you'll want to specify 'localhost' instead of an address. |
| 17:55.22 | greycat | topoi: it might have something to do with IPv6 vs. IPv4 |
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| 17:56.08 | topoi | But I yet don't understand, why the connection gets refused if some site has some ipv4 only? o_O |
| 17:56.38 | greycat | use ss or netstat to see what interface(s) the port is bound to |
| 17:56.41 | cws | topoi: Because you don't have ipv4 only on 'localhost', You have both. |
| 17:56.59 | cws | So when it tries to connect via ipv6, the host is there, but not listening, so it acts like a closed port. |
| 17:57.14 | greycat | ugh, nmap terminology |
| 18:00.08 | topoi | greycat: you were right, it was just binding on :::3128! Wow. Since when?! =) |
| 18:00.41 | topoi | Thanks, you all where a great help. <3 |
| 18:00.56 | cws | topoi: Anything bound to [::] is listening on both v4 and v6, for future reference. |
| 18:02.06 | topoi | cws: you mean as syntax for the -L option in ssh? |
| 18:02.30 | cws | No, in the output of 'ss'. For ssh -L, use 'localhost'. |
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| 18:04.59 | topoi | Ahh, of course. :) I'm still reluctant in switching from "netstat" to "ss" but I will. And someday I'll switch from "iptables" to "nftables".. I promise.. :3 |
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| 18:08.57 | topoi | Have you all migrated to "nftables"? |
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| 18:10.26 | slimmy | Hello. Recently installed debian and I can't find my Windows 10 partition through os-prober. Any ideas? They both are on different SSDs so I didn't mess up with the windows hard drive at all |
| 18:11.10 | topoi | slimmy: You intend to mount your second drive with windows installed? |
| 18:11.35 | topoi | Does "fdisk -l" show the partitions? |
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| 18:12.02 | slimmy | topoi: Greetings. I mounted both Windows partitions, the boot manager and the data one before running os-prober. Yes, fdisk shows them both |
| 18:12.29 | slimmy | I was unsure whether the main Windows partition has something to do with the prober so I also mounted it just in case |
| 18:13.27 | sney | were they both installed in the same mode, e.g. bios vs efi? |
| 18:13.36 | slimmy | Of course, both efi |
| 18:14.13 | sney | hm, it should just work |
| 18:14.35 | slimmy | I even tried reinstalling debian in bios just in case I remembered wrong but that's not the case |
| 18:14.49 | slimmy | I am at a loss of words, idk what to try next |
| 18:15.38 | sney | there can be some weirdness on efi windows systems that have fast boot enabled, try booting to windows via the efi menu and make sure all that stuff is turned off |
| 18:15.47 | sney | with dual boot specifically, that is |
| 18:16.25 | slimmy | How can I boot in windows now? |
| 18:16.50 | slimmy | I tried booting directly into its SSD but I got sent into grub rescue |
| 18:17.10 | greycat | ... what, you installed GRUB on *both* disks? |
| 18:17.33 | slimmy | I am 99% sure only on debian one but last installation it didn't even ask me on which drive |
| 18:17.36 | slimmy | Could this be the case? |
| 18:17.41 | slimmy | How can I possibly check? |
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| 18:18.45 | ens | if i were you and it seemed my windows stuff had evaporated i would unplug that linux SSD and see if the box boots to windows. |
| 18:18.55 | ens | if it doesn't, then the windows ssd surely was touched. |
| 18:19.04 | slimmy | shit |
| 18:19.17 | slimmy | alright... will try that I guess. Sucks |
| 18:19.43 | ens | even if it was touched, it is not really likely that the stuff is gone unless you were really really silly in selecting how to install this. |
| 18:19.58 | slimmy | No the windows data is there have mounted the partition and can access them |
| 18:20.21 | slimmy | I just don't get how on Earth can I boot back into my Windows SSD |
| 18:20.28 | topoi | ens: it seems more about the MBR? |
| 18:20.48 | greycat | I think they don't call it that any more, but yeah. |
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| 18:21.10 | topoi | Ohh.. where have I been. -_- |
| 18:21.53 | ens | seems weird because iirc grub installer is usually pretty good at picking up if a windows system exists and configuring it in grub for you. |
| 18:23.10 | ens | maybe someone knows the correct grub incantation to chainloader into a windows boot. |
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| 18:27.03 | slimmy | Thanks to whoever helped me earlier. Windows hard drive doesn't boot either so I guess I indeed broke something up with my grub installation |
| 18:27.22 | slimmy | Will just try to run windows repair tool and fingers crossed it works I guess.. |
| 18:27.33 | ens | yeah that will probably fix it if you can get to that |
| 18:27.42 | ens | at least you didn't nuke your data! |
| 18:27.51 | slimmy | I really need to stop messing up with my boot loader before work! |
| 18:28.11 | slimmy | Yeah haha indeed! Thank you for your assistance! |
| 18:28.28 | ens | no probs. good luck. |
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| 18:40.18 | RobertoC | hi |
| 18:41.09 | RobertoC | is possible use procmail (mda) to filter a real name in header mail -> From: "this" <not@this.com> without use a milter socket |
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| 18:44.24 | black0p | hi |
| 18:44.44 | black0p | after resuming from sleep mode i cannot login to xfce |
| 18:44.51 | black0p | lightdm |
| 18:44.57 | black0p | it shows black screen |
| 18:45.03 | black0p | i am typing on tty now |
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| 18:47.44 | karlpinc | RobertoC: Should be. |
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| 18:55.01 | black0p | ? |
| 18:57.23 | jmcnaught | black0p: look at journalctl for the times that the computer went into suspend and when it resumed |
| 18:58.31 | black0p | how can i look? |
| 18:58.48 | black0p | xfce didnt fix this problem :/ |
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| 18:59.50 | jmcnaught | black0p: journalctl is a command, run it as root "journalctl -e" will skip to the end and you can PgUp from there. |
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| 19:00.39 | black0p | ok let me do it |
| 19:01.20 | jmcnaught | black0p: "journalctl -b | nc termbin.com 9999" will send the journal for this boot to termbin |
| 19:02.28 | black0p | https://termbin.com/z4sr |
| 19:02.35 | black0p | this is journalctl -e |
| 19:02.40 | black0p | seems lightdm is stopped |
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| 19:08.58 | jmcnaught | black0p: nothing jumps out at me. What does "systemctl status lightdm" say? Did you have a logged in xfce session before you suspended? |
| 19:10.04 | black0p | jmcnaught: it says active running |
| 19:13.50 | raub | grub question: it seems amd_iommu=on works but that value is not listed in https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/admin-guide/kernel-parameters.html. Am I missing something? |
| 19:15.00 | jmcnaught | raub: my theory is that people thought since intel_iommu exists that amd_iommu must also exist. |
| 19:16.05 | jmcnaught | I use IOMMU on an AMD system and do not have amd_iommu on the kernel command line. |
| 19:16.49 | raub | jmcnaught: It would make sense for both to be somewhat parallel. So, which option do you have to turn it on? |
| 19:19.05 | jmcnaught | raub: check if it is already on, you should see some messages about it with "journalctl -b | egrep -i '(AMD-Vi|IOMMU)'" |
| 19:21.22 | black0p | jmcnaught: and yes i was logged in xfce session before i suspended |
| 19:21.29 | black0p | i closed the lid and it went to sleep mode |
| 19:21.54 | black0p | after some time, i opened lid but it didnt show lightdm login screen, just black screen. |
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| 19:24.28 | karlpinc | raub: FYI, zless /usr/share/doc/linux-doc-4.19/Documentation/admin-guide/kernel-parameters.txt.gz shows an amd_iommu parameter. The thing to do to track what's happening in newer kernels is probably to search the new kernel's changelog. (Maybe they merged the 2??) |
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| 19:58.07 | monkwitdafunk | hello! is DVD1 DVD 2 and DVD3 considered GNU/linux as termed by the FSF? |
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| 20:02.06 | greycat | any particular medium-image is just a piece of Debian, typically a collection of packages with possibly some bootable installer code as well |
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| 20:02.25 | greycat | so what you're really asking is whether FSF considers Debian to be a GNU/Linux distribution |
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| 20:03.48 | monkwitdafunk | okay. let me ask again -> is DVD1 DVD2 and DVD3 apart of the "main" collection of software, not "contrib" or "non-free" |
| 20:03.56 | greycat | yes |
| 20:04.03 | monkwitdafunk | i wish to volunteer for h-node.org |
| 20:04.58 | monkwitdafunk | greycat, where in the documentation does it say the DVD1 DVD2 and DVD3 is GNU/linux? |
| 20:05.34 | oxek | monkwitdafunk: all of official debian images are free software as defined in DFSG |
| 20:05.36 | greycat | You keep changing the question. |
| 20:06.06 | oxek | don't know why you'd care about it being called 'GNU/Linux' |
| 20:06.27 | greycat | Probably because they haven't told us the real question yet. |
| 20:07.26 | monkwitdafunk | excellent! okay! i have 2 nicks who support using debian images for the h-node project. thank you |
| 20:08.03 | oxek | the h-node.org webpage has it wrong anyway, "contrib" is still free, it just depends on non-free stuff |
| 20:08.43 | greycat | contrib is basically useless without non-free, so they're usually tied together |
| 20:09.41 | oxek | that's true |
| 20:10.12 | monkwitdafunk | what installer is included in DVD1? |
| 20:10.20 | greycat | !d-i |
| 20:10.20 | dpkg | Information about the development of the debian-installer is at the developers page http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ . If you want to make custom install CDs, start with d-i. IRC: #debian-boot on irc.oftc.net. See also <errata>, <g-i>. |
| 20:11.37 | monkwitdafunk | has anyone used the official debian images alongside GRML? |
| 20:11.51 | oxek | not clear what you mean by that |
| 20:12.00 | oxek | I've used both grml and debian |
| 20:13.28 | monkwitdafunk | oxek, do you think one would use GRML or debian (one or the other, not both) when applying systems software? |
| 20:13.43 | oxek | again not clear what that means |
| 20:14.07 | monkwitdafunk | thats fine. okay. thank you. ill read the debian manual. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< |
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| 20:15.17 | greycat | !grml |
| 20:15.17 | dpkg | grml is a bootable CD (Live CD) originally <based on> Knoppix, now Debian. It includes a collection of GNU/Linux software especially for users of text tools and system administrators. It can be used as a rescue system, for analyzing systems/networks or as a working environment. http://grml.org/ #grml on irc.freenode.net. |
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| 20:16.07 | greycat | I suspect I need to know what "h-node" is to understand any of these questions, because they're nonsense without that knowledge. |
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| 20:19.38 | oxek | h-node is a database of hardware that can run using only fully free software, while completely ignoring BIOS, UEFI, microcode, ... |
| 20:23.56 | greycat | So... the real question is something like, "If I write DVD-1 to a USB stick, and use that to test installing Debian on a random hunk of hardware, and my test succeeds, does that mean it passes h-node's qualifications to be included in their database?" |
| 20:24.49 | greycat | If so, that's slightly too simplistic, because it doesn't test whether (for example) GNOME will crap out due to missing video firmware if you try to log in to a GNOME session. |
| 20:24.59 | greycat | It also doesn't test whether Wi-Fi works, etc. |
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| 20:32.14 | Rob_Jones | Hi asked in earlier sorry but had to go so apologies if i didnt see the response, but is it possible to set up a debian server to run a multi domain email service using roundcube and nginx? |
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| 20:36.23 | greycat | You would need an MTA too. |
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| 20:40.28 | Rob_Jones | MTA? |
| 20:40.59 | Rob_Jones | oh mail transport agent |
| 20:41.00 | Mister00X | Mail Transfer Agent |
| 20:41.22 | Rob_Jones | yeah im planning on using postfix |
| 20:41.44 | Rob_Jones | is what i am trying to do simple though in regards to debian customisation |
| 20:41.49 | Rob_Jones | or quite complex? |
| 20:41.53 | greycat | I'm not familiar with roundcube specifically, but I'm sure postfix can handle multiple domains. The question will be whether roundcube can also do so. |
| 20:42.29 | Rob_Jones | well roundcube is just the client |
| 20:42.35 | greycat | "just" |
| 20:43.01 | greycat | ,i roundcube |
| 20:43.03 | judd | Package roundcube (web, optional) in buster/amd64: skinnable AJAX based webmail solution for IMAP servers - metapackage. Version: 1.3.16+dfsg.1-1~deb10u1; Size: 1.4k; Installed: 13k; Homepage: https://www.roundcube.net/; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/roundcube |
| 20:43.05 | yanmaani | fwiw cock.li does multiple domains and they run debian I think |
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| 20:43.15 | greycat | sounds like you need an IMAP server as well |
| 20:43.28 | greycat | so, nginx + postfix + IMAP server + roundcube |
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| 20:43.51 | Rob_Jones | this is all starting to sound complex :/ |
| 20:43.57 | greycat | It's not trivial, for sure. |
| 20:44.05 | Rob_Jones | i might need to look at hiring some help |
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| 21:00.52 | gh00p | Hey, do people still set up tcp_wrappers, or are libwrap rules implemented by default in common software? I'm trying to determine how important it is to get my employer to take reverse DNS seriously. |
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| 21:02.29 | Hash | I use a Debian Mail Server, exim4, 12 years now. Never issues or problems. #exim people are awesome too |
| 21:02.51 | Hash | I don't know postfix and/or ever used it. I know exim4 and can vouch for it's stability. |
| 21:03.05 | Hash | I also use the Rainloop php webmail client |
| 21:03.16 | Hash | and Dovecot alongside with exim4 |
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| 21:03.55 | Hash | It's not a ready made setup, and I had to learn manually by reading manuals. So if you do that, you'll have a good time. If you do soemthing else, I dunno if you can have a good time. Your gas mileage can vary! |
| 21:04.24 | topoi | Hash: I think he's gone.. :/ |
| 21:04.27 | Hash | Oh. |
| 21:04.39 | Hash | ignores joins/parts/quits/ traffic. |
| 21:05.36 | topoi | ..me too, but I was about to write him as well. ;) However.. I'm using postfix+dovecot and it works like a charme if you dig through their documentation. :3 |
| 21:05.55 | Hash | Sure, whatever you take time learning. :) |
| 21:06.32 | topoi | Yeah.. I hesitated to give sendmail a try, because of the config syntax. =D |
| 21:06.50 | gh00p | I use sendmail+dovecot with procmail for local delivery. |
| 21:07.01 | greycat | I do not recommend sendmail for any new installations in this century. |
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| 21:07.30 | Hash | Sendmail is not somethign you want to deploy these days. It's chock full of security holes and it's a hacked up software. |
| 21:07.36 | Hash | What he said. |
| 21:07.42 | gh00p | I've been using sendmail since the 1990s though, I'm more comfortable with it than anything else. :) |
| 21:07.51 | greycat | Unfortunate. |
| 21:08.09 | greycat | But realistically, "It's what I already know" is the strongest argument for using it. |
| 21:09.00 | gh00p | absolutely. The second argument I have is that I have a bunch of log analysis tools that understand sendmail's maillog format, and it would be "work" to migrate those to something else. |
| 21:09.22 | Hash | If it isn't broken, don't fix it, righ? :) |
| 21:09.34 | gh00p | meh, if it breaks regularly, consider. |
| 21:09.40 | Hash | Well, does it? |
| 21:09.58 | gh00p | It's sendmail. It needs to be updated regularly. Less in recent years of course. |
| 21:10.04 | topoi | Or if some say it's rather easy breakable.. |
| 21:10.05 | cws | Times change, technology changes. Learn new stuff when its advantageous. When it comes to sendmail, it is advantageous. |
| 21:10.30 | Hash | Kevin Mitnick doesn't like sendmail. |
| 21:10.43 | Hash | Therefore, any sensible security person should not like sendmail. |
| 21:10.51 | Hash | Or is that too... strong an opinion? :D |
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| 21:15.15 | topoi | Hash: Never heard of him before, but as wikipedia describes he had some ontogenetic "drive"? |
| 21:18.18 | longears | How do I deal with situations when even `umount -f` is reporting filesystem "in use"? It's not, and the device is gone. I just need to get rid of it. |
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| 21:21.56 | derpadmin | sudo lsof | grep "the mountpoint of the fs or something" |
| 21:22.02 | derpadmin | then kill the process |
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| 21:33.09 | remline | longears: Frequently, its just my terminal that is cd'd inside the device. |
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| 21:36.48 | longears | `lsof: WARNING: can't stat() ... Output information may be incomplete.` And that's it. No processes even using it. |
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| 21:41.34 | EdePopede | lsod $mountpoint returns just nothing? |
| 21:41.42 | EdePopede | s/lsod/lsof/ |
| 21:41.44 | oxek | check if trash is empty |
| 21:42.15 | oxek | or if you downloaded something to that destination using your webbrowser, then close the browser |
| 21:42.28 | oxek | as well as all file managers, and terminals that could have accessed it |
| 21:43.13 | oxek | or any other program that you used to interact with that mountpoint, e.g. text editor |
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| 21:48.47 | EdePopede | also nice: redifining $HOME to another partition will make that gvfsd-meta thing open some handles to it when it is needed because usage of gtk tools. and never release them again until it gets killed. |
| 21:49.09 | oxek | gvfs is usually the culprit |
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| 21:50.42 | EdePopede | not sure if i even need it, i did some -s purge recently and half of my desktop would not have been removed. |
| 21:51.21 | oxek | everyone should have an annual purge night, where we purge no longer needed packages |
| 21:51.56 | EdePopede | nice idea, a debian social event |
| 21:52.46 | EdePopede | "purgin' purgin'..." |
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| 22:02.07 | oxek | could even make a special popcon for it - to find out the most commonly purged packages |
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| 22:22.10 | jhutchins | oxek: That would make a lot of sense - on a 20Mb drive. |
| 22:22.54 | oxek | we have users come in here seeking a sense of purity and minimalism from time to time, even if they have 1PB of storage space |
| 22:23.44 | oxek | I can certainly see some reasoning for periodical review of manually installed packages on any system. |
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| 22:24.48 | jhutchins | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:25.10 | jhutchins | Watching the output of upgrade commands/ |
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| 22:27.11 | jelly | oxek, that periodical review is even suggested by official docs -- to be done after each release upgrade |
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| 22:36.05 | KNERD | Anyone know of a resource so I can learn to make an ISO installation ? |
| 22:36.32 | useretail | hi, i'm stuck during installing a package, what do? details: https://pastebin.com/raw/cYzCJy4p |
| 22:36.33 | Hash | topoi: world known security researcher etc. Very smart guy. https://www.mitnicksecurity.com/ |
| 22:37.27 | oxek | useretail: wait |
| 22:38.53 | useretail | oxek, ok, it finished with a warning: Operation was interrupted before it could finish |
| 22:38.55 | Hash | KNERD: what do you mean iso installation? Do you want to make a bootable iso from debian, customized? |
| 22:39.00 | useretail | oxek, what do now? |
| 22:39.43 | KNERD | Hash: correct. Even modiy the installer somewhat. |
| 22:39.54 | KNERD | I don't want to use those remix apps |
| 22:40.04 | Hash | !debian-live |
| 22:40.04 | dpkg | The Debian Live project provides pre-built Debian live system images and allows creation of your own. NOT recommended for installing Debian. Live images are available from http://www.debian.org/CD/live/ . https://wiki.debian.org/DebianLive #debian-live on irc.debian.org; also see <live login>, <uefi live>. |
| 22:40.34 | KNERD | Hash: I mentioned I installation |
| 22:40.44 | KNERD | I don't want to use live |
| 22:41.33 | Hash | That is also used for Debian custom cd image creation |
| 22:41.45 | Hash | And the resulting iso will be live bootable. Hence the name. |
| 22:41.57 | alex11 | is there a way i can set alsa mixer back to default settings? |
| 22:42.18 | Hash | alex11: remove .asoundrc |
| 22:43.09 | KNERD | I don't want a live bootable. I want it to boot into installtion mode. Am I incorrect? |
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| 22:44.29 | Hash | You will be able to install it. |
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| 22:46.20 | adamfido | good day to you all. love debian logo btw. |
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| 22:46.56 | KNERD | Hash: yeah, but what I mean is the installer screen to popup. I guess that need to be put in the auto execute upon boot? |
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| 22:57.08 | Hash | adamfido: https://photos.app.goo.gl/N8wVs57RAH2y44L67 a few debian wallpapers I made. Enjoy |
| 22:57.38 | Hash | (These were madein gimp, 17-18 years ago, so no sources, and lower res, no widescreen) |
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| 23:05.32 | Arc1 | For the latest Debian with XFCE desktop, what is the recommended partition size for: 1. OS with "/home", 2. OS without "/home" and 3. "/home" in a separate partition? |
| 23:06.45 | abrotman | you don't want a /home/ ? |
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| 23:12.36 | longears | EdePopede: Yeah, it returns nothing whatsoever. And the mounted resource before was using `fuse.rclone`. |
| 23:13.20 | Arc1 | abrotman: I want to differentiate between diff partitioning scheemes: 1. OS with /home in its partition and 2. OS in one partition and /home in a separate partition? |
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| 23:15.03 | jelly | Arc1, don't use partitions, use lvm, resize online when needed? |
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| 23:16.01 | Arc1 | jelly: had a bad experience with lvm; ran out of space and system wouldn't boot so don't want to do that again |
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| 23:16.49 | jelly | ran out of which space |
| 23:17.36 | Arc1 | partition was full of old kernels that would not disapear by themselves |
| 23:18.35 | jelly | if you have a separate /boot, make it large enough, 500MB or so |
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| 23:18.54 | jelly | debian-installer defaults for some mount options are... not good |
| 23:19.01 | jelly | mount points* |
| 23:19.35 | jelly | and even if it's small it's not THAT hard to uninstall old packages! |
| 23:19.48 | jelly | it's just annoying |
| 23:20.16 | Arc1 | it wasn't the packages that stole the space, it was old kernels that wouldn't clear out |
| 23:20.29 | jelly | Arc1, Debian kernels come in packages. |
| 23:20.57 | jelly | try to run: dpkg -S /boot/vmlinuz* |
| 23:22.03 | abrotman | wait, then what's the difference between 2 and 3? |
| 23:22.29 | jelly | they're asking for sizing suggestions |
| 23:22.42 | jelly | so, size for / and size for /home |
| 23:23.13 | Arc1 | not to get sidetracked, I would like to set up a multiboot system with an option of instaling Deb into one of the partitions so just want to know what sizes are recommended |
| 23:23.49 | jelly | that really depends on how much cruft accumulates and how much extra stuff you install |
| 23:24.23 | jelly | 10GB might be enough for your / without home, or you might fill it up in 6 months |
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| 23:25.00 | jelly | 20GB might be enough, then |
| 23:25.05 | jelly | until it's not :-) |
| 23:25.41 | oxek | I still need to find out how to replace my LVM setup with btrfs with subvolumes |
| 23:26.22 | KNERD | My humble opinion is if you want to do seperate partitons and worried about space...put it on another drive |
| 23:26.57 | Arc1 | I would like to have a separate /home and /data partitions without a ton of extra apps beyond defaults so my main concern is to have enough free space for routing maintenance and upgrades on / and not be too boxed in on /home |
| 23:27.35 | Arc1 | *routine manintenance... |
| 23:27.35 | jelly | my workstation systems installed around 2001 have 40GB /+/var and 50-80GB /home and $HOME/.cache is on a separate fs |
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| 23:29.25 | jelly | oh, and $HOME/Downloads is also on the separate fs, small SSD. |
| 23:29.28 | Arc1 | for reference, is the latest Debian with XFCE desktop likely to need more space than Xubuntu 20.04? |
| 23:29.42 | jelly | they're both xfce, so probably not |
| 23:30.45 | Arc1 | I was thinking Debian may need more because there may be more "behind the scenes" |
| 23:30.58 | jelly | has absolutely no idea how much *buntu takes u |
| 23:32.15 | Arc1 | Ubuntu's page recommends 25 gigs but doesn't specify for Xubuntu and doesn't say anything about a sepparate /home... |
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| 23:32.22 | jelly | I do know if you like separate filesystems lvm will help _provided_ you don't allocate all the space immediately |
| 23:32.46 | jelly | 25G is as good a number as any |
| 23:34.02 | Arc1 | ok, a diff question: What is a reasonable booting time for the latest Debian with XFCE desktop running on a Core 2 Duo CPU with 8GB RAM with minimum additional apps installed when booting from: 1. HD? 2. SSD? |
| 23:36.03 | oxek | hdd about 1-2min, ssd about 40s-1min |
| 23:36.48 | KNERD | I got a Core 2 Duo loading cinnmon...takes about 30 seconds With HDD 2-3 minutes |
| 23:36.52 | KNERD | on a laptop |
| 23:37.13 | KNERD | and 4GB of RAM |
| 23:37.23 | oxek | btw didn't know there were motherboards supporting >4GB during core2duo era (at least non-server boards) |
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| 23:39.25 | Urk | Can Debian 10.7 be installed on a Dell XPS 15 7590? |
| 23:39.48 | sney | Urk: at this point, the person best equipped to answer that question is you. |
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| 23:40.04 | Arc1 | oxek: you are right, I stand corrected, I only got 4GB RAM... |
| 23:40.10 | KNERD | I also have a HP Desktop with SATA III and DDR3 with a Core 2 Q9650 which supports 16GB of RAM |
| 23:40.59 | sney | those chipsets usually supported >4GB and it wasn't strange to find a motherboard that could, but it was 32-bit windows that topped out at 3.something so it was rare to see in the wild |
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| 23:42.03 | KNERD | Not sure why Windows 32 bit supported only 4GB of RAM |
| 23:42.20 | Arc1 | In a multiboot situation, with separate /home's and data partitions, is it reasonalbe to put OS booting partitions on a SSD and /home's and data partitions on a HD or will putting an OS and its separate /home on diff drives create extra slowdown? |
| 23:43.05 | sney | KNERD: because 32-bit refers to its ability to address 2^32 bytes of memory, or approximately 4 GB |
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| 23:44.33 | sney | Arc1: having the OS on a fast disk and data on a slow disk is a common setup. you might see some slowdowns with /home on the slow disk, particularly if you use a desktop that does a lot of caching, or tend to run a lot of browser tabs, etc, but ymmv |
| 23:44.59 | KNERD | sney: not true. then the 8 Bit Commodore 54 and 128 are examples of that not being the case 2^8 = 256 yet support 64,000 and 128,000 Bytes of memoriy repspecitively |
| 23:45.29 | sney | KNERD: in windows's case, 32-bit refers to addressable memory. other vendors' use of bits may vary. |
| 23:46.18 | KNERD | yes, but they could of gotten around that like others did |
| 23:46.52 | dvs | KNERD: in Commodore 64, it used 2 8-bits to store addresses. The 128 had bank switching for 128KB |
| 23:46.56 | sney | by the time the 4GB limit was becoming a problem, they had already started working on a 64-bit OS, so that was probably seen as an easier solution |
| 23:47.19 | sney | in fact, IA64 windows had been around for a while at that point iirc |
| 23:48.18 | Urk | sney> I only have a functioning 10.7 install disk which is why I was asking the question. During the last install I recall that I had to have a kernel greater than 5.10 in order to get everything working so whether or not to proceed with 10.7 is a fair question to ask. |
| 23:48.35 | KNERD | yes, true |
| 23:49.30 | sney | Urk: #debian does not memorize every model from every hardware vendor. if we told you before that it's too new for 4.19, then it's probably too new for buster in general. reinstalling 100 times will not change this fact |
| 23:50.09 | Arc1 | sney: so given the options of puting both /'s on ssd and both /homes on hd OR keeping a / with its /home on the same drive - ssd (but then puting the other / with its home on hd) which would be the best choice? |
| 23:50.57 | sney | Urk: you are the current resident expert on (re)installing debian on the xps 15 7590. hooray! for more useful answers, try something like "does debian 10 support $(my cpu and gpu models)?" |
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| 23:51.53 | sney | Arc1: "best" is subjective. *I* have usually had my OS on a SSD and my /home on an array of HDDs, but I'm just one user with one use case. Try stuff and see how it suits you. |
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| 23:56.25 | Arc1 | regarding my earlier booting time question, I should probably specify that my CPU is Core2 6400 @ 2.13 GHz (ie: not the fastest) and yes 4GB RAM... |
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| 23:59.15 | KNERD | In the "olden" days there used to be all kinds of hacks for hardware. i recall Cyrix made a Pentium II chip which could plug into a Pent 1 slot. And Quarterdeck Expanded Memory Manager , I think, was the first to get around the 640K memory limit |
