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| 00:16.04 | craigevil | ,v snapd |
| 00:16.05 | judd | Package: snapd on amd64 -- stretch: 2.21-2+b1; buster: 2.37.4-1+b1; bullseye: 2.49-1+b1; sid: 2.49-1+b1 |
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| 03:11.54 | NoCode | I'm getting an error where I am trying to install Debian. It brings me to the grub-rescue window without the ability to boot into Linux. I am dual booting, both windows and Debian are in UEFI mode. |
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| 03:12.39 | NoCode | Could it be because fast boot is enabled? |
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| 03:49.15 | gry | NoCode: hi |
| 03:49.30 | NoCode | hey |
| 03:49.40 | gry | NoCode: did the installer not finish? |
| 03:50.22 | NoCode | It didn't finish in a way that the bootloader didn't get installed because of a error. |
| 03:50.28 | NoCode | But other than that yeah it got installed. |
| 03:51.04 | NoCode | Windows 10 is on another HDD. |
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| 03:58.09 | NoCode | Guess I'll try to install Ubuntu |
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| 04:05.37 | gry | NoCode: what hardware is it? |
| 04:07.58 | jmcnaught | NoCode: you need to disable fast boot. https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch03s06.en.html#disable-fast-boot |
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| 04:12.33 | NoCode | will fast boot put me into a grub-recovery mode? |
| 04:12.54 | forgotmynick | hello. is there anyway to get a log file per user with sendmail? |
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| 04:16.03 | NoCode | Guess i'll disable and see. |
| 04:16.06 | NoCode | ... |
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| 04:16.28 | acu_ | !paste |
| 04:16.29 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: https://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: https://imgbb.com/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): https://filebin.net or https://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>. |
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| 06:13.39 | StyXman | how can I set KMS for a intelfb from boot? I first get vesafb which sets the video wrong, then intelfb takes over after 15s (so I guess it's not even in the initrd). also grub2 does set the resolution right. any ideas? |
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| 08:41.24 | rockworld | hi everyone, Im wondering what Im doing wrong, I added a new website to my apache2 server on debian 10 in etc/apache2/sites-availables/www.test.com.conf and typed the command a2ensite www.test.com and I cant access the site when I type www.test.com, I also added the domain name in /etc/hosts |
| 08:41.44 | rockworld | here is a example of my configuration https://pastebin.com/5JRLgpnr |
| 08:45.56 | jelly | rockworld, what does "apachectl -S" say, and what is the REAL hostname used |
| 08:46.38 | rockworld | the real domain is nightradio.net |
| 08:48.05 | themill | did you tell apache to reload the config? |
| 08:48.16 | rockworld | yes I did |
| 08:49.00 | rockworld | but I dont understand all my other website is functionnal but this one doesnt |
| 08:49.13 | ratrace | rockworld: is teh conf symlinked into sites-enabled? when you access the site, what's the error you get exactly? what's logged by appache for that request? |
| 08:49.22 | jelly | waits for apachectl -S |
| 08:49.44 | rockworld | https://pastebin.com/uZvxisfk |
| 08:49.56 | rockworld | jelly: here is the output |
| 08:50.24 | themill | swears at pastebin.com |
| 08:50.25 | jelly | nightradio.net.3600INA66.70.191.108 # points to a different IP right now |
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| 08:50.50 | rockworld | ooh :x |
| 08:51.06 | rockworld | I think I forgot to point to the real ip lol thanks my mistake |
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| 08:51.37 | ratrace | themill: install ublockorigin :) "What ads?" :) |
| 08:51.37 | jelly | rockworld, if you're migrating and want to test the new site from a client to need to fake the ns resolution in /etc/hosts of the client where you're running the browser or or http client |
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| 08:52.09 | themill | ratrace: I've got the adblocker; I'm getting pastebin.com complaining about me not looking at their annoying ads because I've got an adblocker |
| 08:52.13 | jelly | or C:\Windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts as the case may be |
| 08:53.03 | ratrace | themill: hmm... I don't get that from pastebin.com. maybe ublockorigin does the job better? |
| 08:53.35 | jelly | I don't see ads, just "Not a member of Pastebin yet? Sign Up, it unlocks many cool features!" |
| 08:54.10 | jelly | ub0 1.34.0 |
| 08:54.29 | jelly | on the eeeevil google browser |
| 08:54.48 | ratrace | I mean, yeah, "raw" pastebin.com output is better, if it has to be used at all.... but ... :) |
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| 08:55.41 | rockworld | jelly: thanks for your help I appreciate |
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| 08:59.18 | jelly | you're welcome! |
| 09:03.05 | rockworld | jelly: what are you using to see where its pointing to? |
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| 09:04.54 | jelly | rockworld, dig, from dnsutils package |
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| 09:05.54 | rockworld | ok :) |
| 09:06.20 | jelly | it's more consistent than the old nslookup |
| 09:07.34 | rockworld | I dont know how to use it, Im gonna need to read on this it can help sometimes |
| 09:09.47 | rockworld | I dont know if its pointing too right now but its not accessible yet |
| 09:09.55 | jelly | "dig nightradio.net" and look at the ANSWER SECTION; all the other stuff is useful to figure out if things are going wrong |
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| 09:11.45 | jelly | nightradio.net.3600INA192.99.37.50 # you may have to wait up to an hour for the old cached version to expire from your (provider's) dns recursor |
| 09:12.17 | rockworld | yes I agree sometimes it takes more time |
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| 11:06.34 | b0rsuk | Hi. I read on Arch wiki that systemd automatically detects and mounts swap partition based on GUID as long as you have a GPT partition table. This seems not to be the case in Debian. |
| 11:07.25 | b0rsuk | I commented out the swap partition (created by installer) in fstab and ran 'sudo swapon --show' after reboot. No output. There was output before. |
| 11:08.17 | b0rsuk | I know Arch wiki is Arch wiki, but isn't that a general systemd behaviour? Is the default systemd behaviour disabled in Debian? |
| 11:11.30 | ratrace | b0rsuk: that's news to me. link? |
| 11:11.56 | nkuttler | yeah, like, wtf, it's not systemd's job to guess what to mount.. |
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| 11:14.23 | ratrace | b0rsuk: I suppose you're referring to this: https://man.archlinux.org/man/systemd-gpt-auto-generator.8 |
| 11:14.37 | jelly | b0rsuk, some systemd components and features are disabled or crippled in debian by default |
| 11:15.59 | jelly | usually because debian already has established ways of doing the same thing |
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| 11:16.08 | b0rsuk | ratrace: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Swap#systemd-swap |
| 11:16.12 | ratrace | the manpage says it'll only look on GTP disk with ESP. I guess the installer doesn't set up the swap partition with specific PTGUID |
| 11:16.29 | b0rsuk | jelly: Thanks, I had the right hunch. |
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| 11:17.00 | ratrace | and doesn't have to really. this "automagic" can only lead to issues. you can always set the PTGUID yourself, I suppose, and see if debian's version of systemd will pick it up. Note, however, again, that it has to be an EFI system, according to the manpage |
| 11:17.10 | b0rsuk | I'm investigating an odd boot behavior, multiple failed messages some of the time and there might be a race condition with an undetermined order of partition mounting... |
| 11:17.22 | b0rsuk | I'll need more time to see if the bug still persists. |
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| 11:17.52 | b0rsuk | I use encrypted swap and it might be causing issues. |
| 11:18.29 | ratrace | b0rsuk: encrypted how? LUKS + fixed passphrase, or plain + random passphrase? |
| 11:19.00 | ratrace | the latter I believe requires systemd cryptsetup support which is not default on debian. for that purpose I wrote my own simple crypto-swap service that does it on boot |
| 11:19.06 | b0rsuk | LVM on LUKS, I type passphrase at boot time. |
| 11:19.19 | folti7777 | efi looks only partitions with esp, boot flags |
| 11:19.23 | jelly | I have no idea where and how systemd-fstab-generator does its thing, and it obviously does |
| 11:19.37 | folti7777 | with parted, you can remove flags |
| 11:19.41 | b0rsuk | ratrace: I'll get back to you but I need to read some more documentation to ask the right questions. |
| 11:19.41 | jelly | b0rsuk, does your debian system have an /etc/fstab? |
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| 11:20.07 | b0rsuk | jelly: Sure. After a few decades, I finally learned how to edit the file manually. |
| 11:20.14 | ratrace | b0rsuk: if you have one LUKS partiion atop of which the LVM resides, then it should be straightforward fstab mountpoint for swap |
| 11:20.24 | b0rsuk | I also learned messing up /etc/fstab can make system unbootable without a message. |
| 11:20.58 | jelly | then you shouldn't have to care about RedHat's crazy ideas about a read-only /etc and all the crazy things they implemented to make that work |
| 11:21.03 | folti7777 | check out this thread-> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/643745/triple-boot-debian-10-fedora-33-and-windows-10-with-gpt-and-uefi?noredirect=1#comment1205714_643745 |
| 11:21.06 | folti7777 | ;) |
| 11:21.25 | b0rsuk | I wish Debian has a wiki as nice as Arch. |
| 11:21.49 | folti7777 | you just need to learn about efibootmanager |
| 11:21.51 | jelly | honestly, going back to flags in partition table |
| 11:22.16 | b0rsuk | jelly: Yes, my debian does have /etc/fstab. |
| 11:22.19 | ratrace | folti7777: what problem are you referring to? |
| 11:22.54 | folti7777 | ratrace: his efi install |
| 11:22.57 | jelly | lvm on luks is a pretty standard config, supposed to work |
| 11:23.05 | ratrace | folti7777: "his" efi install is not in question at all |
| 11:23.28 | ratrace | the question is still unformulated, something something about encrypted vg with swap on a lv |
| 11:23.32 | folti7777 | ok, sorry, what seems to be the problem then? setting right uuid in fstab? |
| 11:23.44 | ratrace | the problem has yet to be formulated properly. |
| 11:23.47 | b0rsuk | Is the difference between 'hibernate' and 'sleep'(suspend) that hibernate saves to disk, and hibernate will be unaffected if power goes out while the system is hibernated? |
| 11:23.53 | folti7777 | ok, waiting |
| 11:24.03 | folti7777 | single boot? |
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| 11:24.31 | jelly | b0rsuk, what does "odd boot behaviour" actually mean in terms of things failing, and output? |
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| 11:31.15 | b0rsuk | jelly: Which log file has the conspicuous messages like [OK] and [FAILED]? I think they're absent in journalctl -b |
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| 11:38.03 | folti7777 | b0rsuk: like jelly asked and ratrace implied- what is the exact problem? Some things fail at boot stage then they are restarted (at my box, bluetooth, for example. Do you have single or multi-boot? Didi you select, during debian install, efi/gpt on the line "type" for / partition? And why is swap encrypted? I'm no master, but what's the point of that? Also, if it's efi and if you have ssd disk, is setting up swap part a habit or you hav |
| 11:38.03 | folti7777 | e a reason for that? |
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| 11:46.38 | b0rsuk | Does paste.debian.net have a mode where it converts the control characters to colors? I know how to display the colors on my machine. I'm googling the net to find a way to remove control characters. |
| 11:46.54 | b0rsuk | I thought maybe setting the language to 'console' would do that, but no. |
| 11:48.58 | b0rsuk | 'more' command displays the bootlogd control characters as colors by default, the newer program 'less' needs the -r option. |
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| 11:50.24 | b0rsuk | There needs to be a cleaner way that pasting a regex from the net I don't understand. |
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| 11:53.43 | ratrace | b0rsuk: are you talking about preparing text for pasting on a paste site? |
| 11:54.37 | folti7777 | b0rsuk: don't tak this personal, but what is EXACTLY your problem? Boot messages, colors in shell, way debian.pastebin is working...? |
| 11:55.43 | ratrace | yeah, it's all over the place like an ADHD kid high on pure gluctose in a chocolate factory with free samples, a bouncing castle and a mini carnival ride. |
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| 11:55.58 | folti7777 | :D |
| 11:56.11 | jelly | b0rsuk, is there any actually not working on your system, that you need to be working, or are you just worried about some messages and looking for a way to show them to us? |
| 11:56.11 | ratrace | %s/ctose/cose/ |
| 11:56.58 | jelly | describe in your own words |
| 11:58.53 | b0rsuk | jelly: In the meantime I found a sweet page about diagnosing boot/shutdown problems. I'll give it a go. |
| 11:59.18 | b0rsuk | But I'll be glad if you tell me a way to strip control characters from files like /var/log/boot.log |
| 11:59.35 | b0rsuk | They make pasting log files really obnoxious. |
| 11:59.55 | folti7777 | b0rsuk: learn awk tool and cut command :) |
| 12:00.47 | ratrace | b0rsuk: do you even need boot.log? what are you looking for exactly? |
| 12:01.28 | ratrace | as for awk .... yes, or sed, if you really wanna paste boot.log :: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/17998978/removing-colors-from-output |
| 12:01.30 | folti7777 | (and please, be patient...linux, especially debian, is about learning, not "quick 'n' dirty" fixes... |
| 12:01.46 | ratrace | well... linux is not "about" that :) |
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| 12:02.08 | ratrace | it's not "about" choice either ;) http://www.islinuxaboutchoice.com/ but I digress.... |
| 12:02.12 | b0rsuk | folti7777: If only there was a variant of AWK that can deal with a range of fields (for example, print fields from $2 to the end |
| 12:02.34 | ratrace | b0rsuk: eh, what? of course it can. |
| 12:02.39 | ratrace | $NF I think is the var name |
| 12:02.42 | folti7777 | I understand you, but ratrace, but I think he is really not-so-aptient newbie and I d'nt want to be mean. |
| 12:02.48 | jelly | b0rsuk, a dumb way: awk '{$1=""; print}' |
| 12:02.59 | ratrace | folti7777: sure, sure, just referring to "about" ;) |
| 12:03.10 | jelly | $NF is just the _last_ column |
| 12:03.23 | ratrace | oh right |
| 12:03.25 | b0rsuk | jelly: I'm referring to something like 'print $2-$NF' |
| 12:03.34 | ratrace | but there's a number of vars for addressing columns, is what I meant really |
| 12:03.35 | jelly | b0rsuk, yes, I know. |
| 12:03.54 | b0rsuk | I like awk but it also can't deal with UTF-8, I think? |
| 12:03.55 | jelly | you said that. That's the dumb answer. Set $1 to be empty, print whole line |
| 12:04.10 | jelly | with $1 now an empty string. |
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| 12:04.27 | b0rsuk | So I can just replace the offending fields with "". |
| 12:04.30 | ratrace | plethora thereof https://linuxhint.com/print-columns-awk/ |
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| 12:04.46 | b0rsuk | I just need to re-learn the syntax. |
| 12:05.24 | jelly | goes back to writing a dumb cron job to kill services that eat too much cpu, for a distro without systemd |
| 12:06.34 | jelly | learned about that the other day in #debian-TIL |
| 12:06.37 | folti7777 | ***expecting systemd-Sysv or pulse-alsa fight :popocorn: |
| 12:07.08 | jelly | folti7777, no fight, we all agree to use the sanest available tools, until some better tools appear to replace it |
| 12:07.32 | folti7777 | i agree...ok, it's for offtopic channel |
| 12:07.40 | ratrace | jelly: cgroups, use them. they ain't systemd things yakno' |
| 12:07.56 | jelly | right. cgroups. On EL5. |
| 12:08.02 | jelly | with 2.6.18 |
| 12:08.04 | ratrace | EL5 !!! |
| 12:08.28 | ratrace | akshully... that ain't 2.6.18, you know it :) that's just teh version the forked of, a decade ago |
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| 12:08.45 | jelly | the vendor is willing to upgrade to EL7... for about 0.5-1 M⬠|
| 12:09.00 | ratrace | dman... EL6+ |
| 12:09.03 | ratrace | *damn |
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| 12:09.51 | jelly | you think EL5 is bad? The service is using JDK 1.5 |
| 12:10.14 | ratrace | not bad, back in its day it was awesome. just ... extremely ancient even with all the backports |
| 12:10.40 | folti7777 | what is it used for? |
| 12:10.49 | folti7777 | that el5 install |
| 12:11.19 | ratrace | a gopher service, probably *runs* |
| 12:11.27 | folti7777 | aaaaa |
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| 12:12.51 | b0rsuk | Oh I forgot how cool AWK was. |
| 12:13.34 | folti7777 | nice, so you have no problems anymore? |
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| 12:14.06 | b0rsuk | For the time being, no. |
| 12:14.14 | folti7777 | good |
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| 12:17.10 | b0rsuk | AWK was ahead of its time. You can use regex as a field separator, similar to re.split() in Python. |
| 12:17.42 | b0rsuk | It's uncanny how much "modern" programming language syntax is inspired by AWK. |
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| 12:22.16 | b0rsuk | Is there a file format that's like CSV but consistent? |
| 12:26.38 | ratrace | define "consistent" |
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| 12:37.03 | sigint | b0rsuk, SQLite? |
| 12:42.02 | ratrace | that's a binary file format, nothing like CSV |
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| 12:43.12 | folti7777 | and what's not consistent with CSV? 'Cause of float type? |
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| 12:44.27 | abrotman | CSV is pretty clunky and inconsistent with multi-value columns |
| 12:44.56 | tradar | .ini text files can be parsed easily |
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| 12:50.45 | Schwarzbaer | Hi. How can I look up the creation date of a file on an ext4? |
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| 12:51.58 | jelly | !crtime |
| 12:51.58 | dpkg | Some filesystems may store creation time after all, even if POSIX APIs don't expose it. Ext4 does. E.g., to check how long ago your root filesystem root directory was created: f="/"; dev=`df -P "$f"|tail -n1|awk '{print $1}'`; i=`stat -c%i "$f"`; sudo debugfs -R"stat <$i>" "$dev" 2>&1|grep ^crtime |
| 12:52.35 | jelly | or wait for glibc... 2.32 and stat(1), not sure if bullseye |
| 12:52.37 | Schwarzbaer | ... Ooof... Thanks. Wow, that's deep magic. |
| 12:53.01 | jelly | it's unreadable to fit in the 300 characters of a single irc line |
| 12:53.26 | jelly | replace f="..." with your file's absolute path |
| 12:53.36 | Schwarzbaer | Yeah, Bullseye, I always forget that I'm in the wrong channel, sorry... stat gives me "Birth: -" |
| 12:54.12 | jelly | that's what I thought. I'm sure it's going to work in bookworm (the one after bullseye) ;-) |
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| 12:57.13 | ratrace | abrotman: I guess you meant "values with commas". you can make it consistent if you put in "quotes" the values, always, regardles of commas |
| 12:57.41 | ratrace | but you can't force someone to do it, and if you have to parse CSV, better use a fully functional CSV parser. |
| 12:58.12 | ratrace | (and yes, despite C in CSV, the delimiter could be ; or | or ...) |
| 13:00.07 | ratrace | ((disclaimer: the company I work for, one of primary services is data syndication and conversion and we convert between xml, csv and json files constantly, thousands of feeds per day; so I know the pain :) )) |
| 13:00.50 | b0rsuk | sigint: I was looking for a text format, but you have a point with SQLite. |
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| 13:04.00 | jelly | Schwarzbaer, careful, debugfs seems to return the readable timestamp in local timezone but does not actually state the timezone |
| 13:04.13 | jelly | crtime: 0x4fd34c77:20f84068 -- Sat Jun 9 13:15:35 2012 |
| 13:08.22 | b0rsuk | Why is /sbin/ not in $PATH ? This causes a little more typing for users, and some Ubuntu people mistakenly believe all of them need to be prepended with sudo. |
| 13:08.48 | b0rsuk | I mean it is slightly misleading. |
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| 13:10.24 | Schwarzbaer | jelly, it does not return a crtime line for me at all, only ctime, atime, mtime. |
| 13:10.50 | jelly | Schwarzbaer, are you sure this is an ext4 filesystem type? |
| 13:10.51 | karlpinc | !buster su |
| 13:10.51 | dpkg | In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). See https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes for details. |
| 13:10.52 | Schwarzbaer | I guess that means there goes the information? |
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| 13:11.10 | ratrace | the whole bin vs sbin is a load on nonsense anyway, they should be merged |
| 13:11.19 | abrotman | ratrace: No, I did not mean that |
| 13:11.26 | Schwarzbaer | jelly, mount said so. It's also in a veracrypt volume, so that might be the source of the problem as well? |
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| 13:11.59 | jelly | Schwarzbaer, which debian release is this, it might be missing if you converted from ext3 to ext4 I guess. Outer block device layer is not important and does not affect fs structure inside |
| 13:12.31 | karlpinc | b0rsuk: So, su (above) aside, /sbin/ is in root's path when you login as root. |
| 13:12.34 | jelly | Schwarzbaer, see if the root of that filesystem has a crtime |
| 13:12.58 | Schwarzbaer | Tue Aug 27 09:34:04 2019 |
| 13:13.29 | jelly | but a specific file doesn't have it? weird |
| 13:13.42 | jelly | I don't know how that might happen |
| 13:13.49 | Schwarzbaer | ...and I'm on bullseye. |
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| 13:14.29 | ratrace | they finally fixed the inode + filesystem + glibc support + syscall support for crtime? coming up in bullseye? |
| 13:14.49 | jelly | ratrace, nope, bullseye just missed that train |
| 13:15.03 | jelly | I think glibc is fine but coreutils isn't |
| 13:15.12 | jelly | or something like that |
| 13:15.16 | ratrace | then what crtime are you two talking about then? |
| 13:15.45 | jelly | the one you grab from the disk directly using debugfs |
| 13:15.53 | ratrace | ooh, I see |
| 13:16.24 | jelly | who needs OS support |
| 13:16.27 | ratrace | the inode one |
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| 13:17.15 | jelly | ext4 fs has had it since wheezy or so |
| 13:17.22 | jelly | dpkg, factinfo crtime |
| 13:17.22 | dpkg | crtime -- created by jelly-hme <~jelly@homestuck.iskon.hr> at Sat Jun 18 07:42:39 2011 (3600 days); it has been requested 36 times, last by jelly, 25m 24s ago. |
| 13:17.35 | jelly | well that's ten years |
| 13:17.43 | ratrace | yeah I know about ext4 but I thought full stack support was needed to get it fully working and supported |
| 13:18.05 | jelly | Debian may have it in 2023? :-) |
| 13:18.24 | ratrace | I find this incredible that a vital piece of info like that has not been implemented from the beginning |
| 13:18.43 | ratrace | there's mtime, there's ctime but nobody thought "hey... creation timestamp... kinda important, dontchathink" |
| 13:18.58 | Schwarzbaer | Usually... not really? |
| 13:19.24 | jelly | so vital that me, you, or anyone else, hasn't bothered to push the missing userspace patch into bullseye |
| 13:19.57 | jelly | last time I looked it was just one piece missing, not sure if glibc or coreutils |
| 13:21.06 | ratrace | I never botehred because Linus said once it required support for entire ecosystem to sit together and coordinate, to which I laughed, ROFLed like a giggly little girl scout, and filed under "Linux Unicorns" |
| 13:21.24 | jelly | ratrace, this isn't ntfs devs you're talking about, every every feature is carefully measured and lovingly implemented |
| 13:21.37 | ratrace | indeed |
| 13:21.44 | jelly | s/every/where/ |
| 13:22.52 | ratrace | where where feature? =) |
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| 13:24.56 | ratrace | (meta sarcasm noted, btw :)) ) |
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| 14:34.27 | queip | how to set VPN but only for one user |
| 14:34.40 | queip | or one program, or somehow isolated. without full VM |
| 14:35.30 | _zerobeholder | ...when I run this LDAP command, my password hash in the output has a line break... is that to be expected? "ldapsearch -LLL -Y EXTERNAL -H ldapi:/// -b cn=config olcRootDN=cn=admin,dc=myxyz,dc=biz dn olcRootDN olcRootPW" |
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| 14:36.48 | _zerobeholder | I did include the -n switch in my slappasswd command and capturing the output of that command gives me a contiguous hash string... no line break to stdout or redirected to a text file. |
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| 14:39.13 | ratrace | queip: by running the user's shell and other processes in a separate network namespace. it's doable even without NS, but would require iptables+routing trickery |
| 14:40.05 | folti7777 | ratrace: or separate group with specific perms? |
| 14:40.24 | ratrace | folti7777: no, unix perms have no effect on routing |
| 14:40.32 | folti7777 | ah, my bad |
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| 14:41.07 | folti7777 | right, new network. iptables are really not thaaaat complicated |
| 14:41.14 | greycat | I think iptables can route based on the UID that owns the process, maybe. That definitely falls under the "trickery" category. |
| 14:41.33 | ratrace | yes. iptables to "mark" packets belonging to UID/GID and then routing based on marks |
| 14:42.06 | ratrace | using namespaces, aka containers, is realy the easiest way to set up and control |
| 14:42.35 | queip | ratrace: what cmds to execute as user, and which as root? and start openvpn as...this user? |
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| 14:43.09 | ratrace | queip: depends. your first problem is how to put the user into namespace |
| 14:43.20 | folti7777 | man, you're inspiring :) remembered how much I forgot because of 'only sql' fiddling |
| 14:43.32 | ratrace | is it a ssh shell access user? is it a local console user? is it even a human use or just system/program UIDs you want to isolate? |
| 14:43.46 | queip | ratrace: local user. there was a cmd to start shell in namespace, forgot which one |
| 14:43.52 | ratrace | unshare |
| 14:44.15 | queip | ratrace: it's a local user, using own X server. but in the new namespace he needs to run X programs like browser |
| 14:45.08 | ratrace | well that first step is not something I can quickly think of OTOH. I would assume you'd want a foolprof way involving logind and/or shell definitions and/or user services, to launch that first "root" shell in a separate NS |
| 14:45.28 | ratrace | queip: HOWEVER |
| 14:45.42 | ratrace | if it's a user you can "trust" to exec stuff in a namespace, tell him/her to simply launch things in firejail |
| 14:46.08 | ratrace | if it's an untrusted user you need to _force_ into a NS ... then it's the logind/shell/user-service trickery. |
| 14:46.47 | ratrace | and I wonder what you mean as "using own X server". you have multiple Xorgs running there? |
| 14:47.02 | _zerobeholder | According to bug reports, it seems there is a bug in the hashing algorithm implementation I was suggested I use to match the preexisting password practices elsewhere. It is unnecessary and mostly security theatre-- so, I am just going to wipe the new box and use the default hash. Dumb and wasted two days. |
| 14:47.54 | ratrace | _zerobeholder: huh? |
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| 14:49.58 | queip | ratrace: use is trusted. maybe he should log into vt2, there unshare, then start xorg (just to avoid accidentially leaking ip). then root logs somewhere, unshares into same namespace by name and runs openvpn? |
| 14:50.12 | queip | user |
| 14:50.30 | jelly | _zerobeholder, /etc/shadow hash? No need to wipe the whole system just to set some new passwords |
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| 14:51.56 | jelly | even md5-based $1$ is still reasonably safe, there's salt in it and rainbow tables based attacks are impractical |
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| 14:53.06 | azy | what file do i put custom dns settings in? |
| 14:53.59 | greycat | !override dns |
| 14:54.00 | dpkg | To have dhclient etc not touch /etc/resolv.conf, the best plan is to configure it not to touch that file. See https://wiki.debian.org/resolv.conf for more details. Note that by ignoring the DHCP-provided DNS servers, you may find that you are unable to use captive portals or surf the web on some network. Beware creating technical debt by doing things like chattr +i |
| 14:54.09 | jelly | !override dns |
| 14:54.09 | dpkg | To have dhclient etc not touch /etc/resolv.conf, the best plan is to configure it not to touch that file. See https://wiki.debian.org/resolv.conf for more details. Note that by ignoring the DHCP-provided DNS servers, you may find that you are unable to use captive portals or surf the web on some network. Beware creating technical debt by doing things like chattr +i |
| 14:54.25 | jelly | dpkg, you fail at deduplication |
| 14:54.25 | dpkg | I resemble that remark! |
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| 14:55.59 | ratrace | queip: https://paulgorman.org/technical/blog/20180128152453.html |
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| 15:03.00 | azy | i cant seem to edit the file. it says its read only. i see the nameserver i set in there, i just cant comment it out. i think the nameserver must be down right now |
| 15:04.01 | jelly | which file, azy? |
| 15:04.11 | greycat | you *do* have to be root to edit files in /etc you know |
| 15:04.24 | azy | resolv.conf, i did sudo |
| 15:04.33 | jelly | hopes it's not the one the bot said NOT to edit directly |
| 15:04.43 | jelly | azy, sudo what? |
| 15:04.51 | jelly | sudoedit /etc/resolv.conf ? |
| 15:05.00 | azy | ye |
| 15:05.10 | greycat | waits for the part where it's not a file, because it's a symlink to some crazy shit, and it turns out it's not even Debian either |
| 15:05.18 | jelly | azy, and which error did that throw? |
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| 15:05.32 | azy | e45: 'read only' option is set |
| 15:05.43 | azy | add ! to override, vim |
| 15:05.59 | greycat | ls -ld /etc/resoov.conf |
| 15:06.00 | Aurora_v_kosmose | Does anyone know where the git repo for https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/emacs-non-dfsg lives? |
| 15:06.06 | greycat | gah |
| 15:06.10 | greycat | ls -ld /etc/resolv.conf |
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| 15:06.14 | azy | rw-r--r-- 1 root root 96 Oct 13 2020 /etc/resolv.conf |
| 15:06.27 | Aurora_v_kosmose | I'm trying to find when a useful example in the elisp info manual got added, and why it wasn't pushed upstream. |
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| 15:11.08 | azy | how can i set a new dns sever? |
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| 15:11.33 | greycat | Edit resolv.conf if it's a file, and then follow one of the many choice on the wiki to make your system stop touching it. |
| 15:12.20 | azy | i cant click links because my dns doesnt work |
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| 15:13.08 | greycat | well then, edit first, and read the wiki next |
| 15:13.26 | greycat | one wonders how you got irc to work |
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| 15:14.00 | azy | direct to my bnc's ip |
| 15:14.07 | jelly | nice |
| 15:14.44 | jelly | azy, btw, did you do sudoedit ... or sudo vim ...? |
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| 15:14.54 | azy | sudo vim. first ive heard of sudoedit |
| 15:15.03 | queip | the resolve situation is such a mess on unixes |
| 15:15.25 | queip | btw how to tell debian to f**** off from updating /etc/resolve, other than chattr +i |
| 15:15.25 | jelly | azy, use sudoedit /path/to/file for files owned by root |
| 15:15.44 | greycat | !tell queip about override dns |
| 15:15.54 | jelly | and please try to read and answer our questions carefully |
| 15:16.11 | greycat | I use sudo vi all the time... not sure why you say not to. |
| 15:16.16 | jelly | <jelly> azy, sudo what? <jelly> sudoedit /etc/resolv.conf ? <azy> ye |
| 15:16.31 | azy | same issue though |
| 15:16.56 | greycat | did you already chattr it, maybe? |
| 15:17.08 | greycat | use lsattr to see |
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| 15:18.45 | petn-randall | queip: Or - hear me out - use the actual tools that configure /etc/resolv.conf instead of fighting them. |
| 15:20.44 | greycat | petn-randall: that usually requires administrative power over the *network*, which you may not have. |
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| 15:22.03 | petn-randall | greycat: It doesn't? Even when running a dhcp client you can configure the machine to ignore the dns coming from it, and set it manually. |
| 15:22.27 | greycat | "Configure dhclient hooks" is one of the choices on the wiki. |
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| 15:33.21 | ratrace | it's definitely more sane choice than chattr'ing resolv.conf |
| 15:34.42 | jelly | glibc resolver is broken anyway, you can't even do split dns |
| 15:37.25 | jelly | you can't make apps notice nameserver updates |
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| 15:39.42 | ratrace | jelly: akshully ....... something something systemd-resolved DBUS something something |
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| 15:58.48 | jelly | resolved plugs into resolv.conf, if I'm going to do that I'll just use a decent resolver like unbound |
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| 17:44.06 | mike18 | hi where an I find package sbt-0.13.13.1.rpm ? |
| 17:44.12 | mike18 | or sbt-0.13.15.rpm |
| 17:44.16 | mike18 | or sbt-0.13.13.rpm |
| 17:44.47 | greycat | Ask a red hat channel? |
| 17:44.53 | EdePopede | mike18: rpm doesn't sound like a debian package |
| 17:44.59 | mike18 | oh |
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| 17:45.13 | greycat | ,v sbt |
| 17:45.14 | judd | Package: sbt on amd64 -- sid: 0.13.13-2 |
| 17:45.24 | mike18 | or for Debian: https://dl.bintray.com/sbt/debian/sbt-$SBT_VERSION.deb |
| 17:45.25 | mike18 | ? |
| 17:45.44 | greycat | sounds like you already know where to find this thing |
| 17:46.54 | mike18 | did you see version 0.13.15 ? |
| 17:48.13 | greycat | you're the one providing the URL so I assume you know the URL |
| 17:48.34 | greycat | Bah, they don't let you list https://dl.bintray.com/sbt/debian/ |
| 17:48.39 | mike18 | https://github.com/mozilla/docker-sbt/blob/main/Dockerfile ? |
| 17:48.39 | greycat | Well, have fun with whatever this thing is. |
| 17:48.59 | mike18 | I get error dpkg-deb: error: 'sbt-0.13.13.deb' is not a debian format archive |
| 17:49.00 | mike18 | dpkg: error processing archive sbt-0.13.13.deb (--install): |
| 17:49.00 | dpkg | mike18: That isn't an error, post the whole output to a pastebin (/msg dpkg pastebin). |
| 17:49.00 | mike18 | Â subprocess dpkg-deb --control returned error exit status 2 |
| 17:50.55 | mike18 | greycat https://ideone.com/uTOnmg |
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| 17:53.30 | EdePopede | lol: HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 403 Forbidden |
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| 18:29.04 | mike18 | any idea why I see that error? Â https://ideone.com/uTOnmg |
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| 18:34.41 | mutante | mike18: whatever parses this bash script is not bash and doesnt like to see "# " as comment lines? |
| 18:35.15 | mike18 | but that error dpkg-deb: error: 'sbt-0.13.13.deb' is not a debian format archive ? |
| 18:36.20 | mutante | mike18: well, that's bad as well |
| 18:36.43 | mutante | but the issue starts before that |
| 18:36.58 | mutante | "prog.cpp:1:2: error: invalid preprocessing directive #! #!/bin/bash |
| 18:37.12 | mutante | a C compiler is trying to compile a bash script or what? |
| 18:38.24 | greycat | I'm so glad I ignored as soon as Docker came up. |
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| 18:39.18 | ratrace | lol that compiler error is from taht DUMB STUPID pastebin trying to parse the paste contents and .... compile them?! |
| 18:40.25 | ratrace | hwere do people find these .... exotic, stupid, dumb, lame...... paste sites.... |
| 18:42.56 | shtrb | !fpaste |
| 18:43.10 | mike18 | mutante here the full paste: https://ideone.com/3MTctB |
| 18:43.35 | shtrb | ideone isn't for c++ ? |
| 18:43.40 | mike18 | no |
| 18:43.44 | mike18 | all languages |
| 18:44.29 | ratrace | 'sbt-0.13.13.deb' is not a debian format archive sums it up |
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| 18:45.28 | greycat | 0.13.13 is in sid |
| 18:45.55 | greycat | I still have no idea what this thing *is* ... let's ask judd |
| 18:45.57 | greycat | ,info sbt |
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| 18:45.58 | judd | No package named 'sbt' was found in buster/amd64. |
| 18:46.06 | greycat | ,info sbt --release sid |
| 18:46.07 | judd | Package sbt (java, optional) in sid/amd64: Scala Build Tool. Version: 0.13.13-2; Size: 1025.6k; Installed: 1286k; Homepage: http://www.scala-sbt.org |
| 18:47.31 | imMute | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:48.16 | greycat | && \ at the end of a line is redundant *anyway* |
| 18:48.31 | mutante | mike18: either $SBT_VERSION is wrong or the file is corrupt. wherever the .deb comes from. Maybe use "file" command on it to see what that is |
| 18:48.36 | greycat | just having && at the end of a line already forces the shell to continue on the next line |
| 18:49.02 | mike18 | mutante looks like it - but I would like to use the old version before upgrading |
| 18:49.21 | mike18 | thats why I look for a https://dl.bintray.com/sbt/rpm/sbt-0.13.13.rpm ... |
| 18:49.22 | mutante | mike18: what would give $SBT_VERSION a value ? |
| 18:49.56 | greycat | I bet there are instructions somewhere that include "first, set SBT_VERSION to your desired version" |
| 18:50.09 | greycat | I bet these instructions were not followed |
| 18:50.58 | ratrace | but that's clearly set :: dpkg-deb: error: 'sbt-0.13.13.deb' is not a debian format archive |
| 18:51.00 | mike18 | look here: https://github.com/mozilla/docker-sbt/blob/main/Dockerfile |
| 18:51.16 | mike18 | which means it cannot find that old version any more? |
| 18:51.18 | ratrace | It wouldn't be the first time I've seen sites alter responses when they see curl UA |
| 18:51.25 | ratrace | try curl it manually and inspect what you've downloaded |
| 18:52.42 | mutante | is it 0.13 instead of 0.13.13 |
| 18:53.09 | mutante | mike18: int that too many 13 ? |
| 18:53.16 | mike18 | curl https://dl.bintray.com/sbt/rpm/sbt-0.13.rpm |
| 18:53.16 | mike18 | Forbidden! |
| 18:54.03 | ratrace | oh so you never even tested the URL you're trying? |
| 18:54.18 | mutante | " |
| 18:54.18 | mutante | Attention: All Bintray services will be deprecated and your accounts will be disabled on May 1st 2021. Learn More. |
| 18:54.37 | mutante | they started to take it down a few days early ? |
| 18:55.51 | mike18 | whats the replacement for that then? |
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| 19:01.38 | mutante | mike18: you could install a webserver and then use reprepro to create your own .deb repo if that's what you need |
| 19:02.21 | mutante | after all it's more or less just a webserver and reprepro init or so |
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| 19:02.36 | mike18 | why install a web server? |
| 19:02.55 | mike18 | can I download the repo somehow locally? |
| 19:03.00 | mike18 | and  add it to my docker? |
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| 19:03.06 | mutante | because it seems he wants to download a .deb from it. but yea, can also copy it with scp, but so far we dont know who makes the .deb |
| 19:03.57 | mutante | mike18: it seems you cant download it because it's gone |
| 19:04.03 | mutante | or "forbidden |
| 19:04.22 | mike18 | wget https://dl.bintray.com/sbt/rpm/sbt-0.13.rpm ... forbidden |
| 19:04.23 | mutante | who makes that .deb you are looking for? |
| 19:04.29 | mike18 | no idea |
| 19:04.52 | mutante | then it will be hard to find out what they are replacing it with |
| 19:05.06 | mike18 | I found another docker image: bigtruedata/sbt:0.13.15-2.11.8 |
| 19:05.13 | mike18 | is there a way to extract it from here? |
| 19:06.23 | mutante | how about searching for sbt upstream, like where the source comes from |
| 19:06.38 | mike18 | the version is super old |
| 19:06.39 | mutante | and following their docs where to get the package from |
| 19:06.42 | mike18 | sbt is at version 1.x now |
| 19:07.03 | greycat | (it's in sid, but no other release right now, and judd also gave us the upstream home page) |
| 19:07.16 | karlpinc | mike18: If they have it under version control then you should be able to check out any version you like. |
| 19:07.26 | alexrelis[m] | How can I test if my computer is actually suspending? |
| 19:07.28 | mike18 | and build myself? |
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| 19:08.20 | alexrelis[m] | I swear it just turns the screen off. |
| 19:08.45 | mutante | mike18: https://scala.jfrog.io/artifactory/debian/ |
| 19:08.57 | mutante | that look way more official than bintray |
| 19:09.12 | mutante | and has the 0.13 version .debs |
| 19:09.31 | mutante | just get it from there instead? |
| 19:10.22 | karlpinc | alexrelis[m]: I don't know, but I suspect there might be messages in dmesg output or in /var/log/syslog. |
| 19:11.20 | mutante | mike18: this is straight from the download page on scala-sbt.org, dunno how that bintray stuff gets in there anyways |
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| 19:12.19 | mike18 | mutante thanks!! |
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| 19:13.39 | mutante | np |
| 19:13.58 | alexrelis[m] | I see it suspending and unsuspending every hour. |
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| 19:15.20 | alexrelis[m] | https://paste.debian.net/1195274/ |
| 19:15.56 | alexrelis[m] | I closed my laptop lid for less than 15 minutes and the battery drained 10%. |
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| 19:18.47 | karlpinc | alexrelis[m]: I've no real idea. Did you install with the unofficial installer with firmware included? If not then maybe (random guess) firmware is required. Check the boot logs in syslog. (And maybe dmesg?) Also, search for "linux" and your make and model and "suspend" and see what comes up. |
| 19:20.08 | karlpinc | alexrelis[m]: Or maybe a newer (backports.debian.org perhaps) kernel is required. Or some sort of userspace tool turns it on. Never hurts to try a newer kernel. All depends on how old your laptop is. |
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| 19:35.13 | alexrelis[m] | karlpinc: Thanks I am on the newer kernel and did install with the nonfree ISO. |
| 19:35.30 | alexrelis[m] | It might actually be suspending, just waking up every hour and going back to sleep for some reason. |
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| 19:38.25 | alkisg | alexrelis[m]: eh, a quick way would be to ping it from another pc, if it replies it's awake :) |
| 19:38.50 | alexrelis[m] | alkisg: Haha, I actually did that. |
| 19:39.13 | alexrelis[m] | I got ping responses even after I closed the lid. |
| 19:39.35 | alexrelis[m] | My laptop doesn't support S3 suspend, so it may not even turn the WiFi radio off. |
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| 19:43.13 | velix | In the past, there has been a website, which estimates Debian Stable final date by amount of issues left. Does this still exist? |
| 19:43.27 | alxgomz | I4m trying t orepackage imagemagick and I'm struggling to get the copyright file right. The one from the official package is very detailled and has proper license and credits or every singl efile. IS there some tool/script I can use to generate that file? |
| 19:43.34 | greycat | !rc bugs |
| 19:43.34 | dpkg | Release-Critical bugs are Debian bugs with critical, grave or serious severities, preventing the next release of Debian. See the graph at http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ or the lists at http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/other/all.html http://udd.debian.org/bugs.cgi?release=bullseye&patch=ign&pending=ign&merged=ign&done=ign&rc=1 . See also <rc-alert>. |
| 19:44.33 | velix | greycat: Yeah, but on one page, there was also the release date of the old releases etc. |
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| 19:58.06 | karlpinc | I used xsane to scan some pages and make a big PDF. But now want to rotate some pages and move others within the pdf. pdftk fails with "Error: Unable to find file.", after taking a really long time. pdfseparate produces separate pdfs for each page, but it seems that each pdf is the size of the original. (5.7G). (pdfseparate is still running, and will probably fill the disk before running out of pages.) What's the "right" tool to |
| 19:58.06 | karlpinc | manipulate my pdf? |
| 19:58.18 | velix | Nice! Finally an up to date walkthrough! https://cryptsetup-team.pages.debian.net/cryptsetup/encrypted-boot.html |
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| 20:01.28 | karlpinc | Humm. Gimp says "PDF document is damaged".... |
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| 20:04.23 | karlpinc | This would seem to indicate that xsane produces damaged pdfs.... |
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| 20:11.38 | karlpinc | (But it displays fine with evince or xpdf.) |
| 20:12.46 | mutante | karlpinc: imagemagick maybe? |
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| 20:20.00 | karlpinc | mutante: Possibly. I tried using it to rotate the xsane pbm files. But then xsane writes the rotated files into the pdf as blank pages. So maybe I can work directly on the pdf... |
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| 20:24.20 | mutante | karlpinc: at least PDF was in some list of formats wth imagemagick |
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| 20:40.00 | karlpinc | ImageMagick's convert won't split pdfs unless you comment out the '<policy domain="coder" rights="none" pattern="PDF" />' lines in /etc/ImageMagick/policy.xml file. I can't tell if these are something leftover from an old debian or if the latest (at sources.debian.org) has the same problem. The lines are no longer needed, given buster's gs version. See: https://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/id/332928/ |
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| 20:43.27 | karlpinc | Sheesh. bugs.debian.org says "There is no maintainer for ImageMagick.". |
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| 20:44.27 | karlpinc | Ah, they've gone lower case. |
| 20:45.04 | petn-randall | karlpinc: "Maintainers for imagemagick are ImageMagick Packaging Team <pkg-gmagick-im-team@lists.alioth.debian.org>." |
| 20:45.51 | ratrace | IM has been very quiet, security bug-wise in buster. |
| 20:46.08 | ratrace | when I was freebsd maintainer, felt like we had to patch IM every otehr week |
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| 20:51.30 | karlpinc | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=964090 |
| 20:51.32 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/964090 in imagemagick (open, patch, buster): «Error when converting from "jpg" to "pdf" since security upgrade "8:6.9.10.23+dfsg-2.1+deb10u1"»; severity: important; opened: 2020-07-01; last modified: 2021-03-02. |
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| 20:52.25 | karlpinc | petn-randall: Thanks. |
| 20:52.53 | karlpinc | I just pinged the bug, which should reach the maintainers. Looks like the restrictions introduced for security reasons are no longer required. |
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| 20:55.59 | karlpinc | Hopefully, they're allowed to delete a few lines from a config file before bullseye release. But I just don't track what's allowed when. |
| 20:57.28 | greycat | Some of the restrictions are super weird. During the latest stage of the buster freeze, I just happened to be looking at ksh and wondering which upstream version of the source they were using, and found that the Source: line was missing from the copyright file. Rather than just add *one line* to a text file, they were ready to pull the package out of buster. |
| 20:58.31 | oxek | do debian developers even use the public IRC channels? |
| 20:59.31 | greycat | Most of them are on OFTC. |
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| 21:02.39 | otisolsen70 | Is anyone running Debian 10 able to help me out a bit? I need someone to open libreoffice, press Alt+F12 to open Options. Then navigate to Libreoffice --> View and take a screenshot. I ran into this problem and cannot see any text and need to disable opengl: https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=101&t=88517 |
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| 21:04.26 | mutante | otisolsen70: this is probably not very helpful but Alt+F12 doesnt open any options for me |
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| 21:04.44 | otisolsen70 | mutante, libreoffice 1:6.1.5-3+deb10u7? |
| 21:05.06 | mutante | otisolsen70: yes, that version it is |
| 21:05.33 | oxek | otisolsen70: you could try libreoffice from backports |
| 21:05.36 | otisolsen70 | OK. |
| 21:05.52 | oxek | it had a lot of work done on opengl |
| 21:05.55 | otisolsen70 | I'll just install debian 10 on a virtual machine and start up libreoffice from there. |
| 21:06.05 | mutante | maybe the key combo is a thing of the window manager, not libreoffice? |
| 21:06.06 | otisolsen70 | oxek, ok. I'll look into that also |
| 21:06.33 | karlpinc | Alt+F12 did not open anything for me either. |
| 21:08.09 | otisolsen70 | oxek, so I just add deb http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-backports main |
| 21:08.10 | otisolsen70 | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:08.30 | greycat | otisolsen70: apt update, too |
| 21:08.39 | otisolsen70 | Of course :) |
| 21:08.40 | karlpinc | otisolsen70: You need to "apt update" after updating sources.list. |
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| 21:10.01 | otisolsen70 | Strange... I just did that and was prompted with this odd question: https://paste.yt/p15023.html |
| 21:10.07 | NetTerminalGene | there is also appimage version of libreoffice |
| 21:11.14 | otisolsen70 | Is that normal to be prompted for such security issues when using backports? |
| 21:11.19 | otisolsen70 | (this is my first use of backports) |
| 21:11.59 | karlpinc | otisolsen70: Follow the "how to" at backports.debian.org. |
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| 21:12.33 | otisolsen70 | karlpinc, I think I did. Is that suggestion relevant to the security question? |
| 21:12.36 | sney | otisolsen70: you apparently have apt-listbugs installed, it will list any bugs for any package you are going to install, regardless of relevance, because apt-listbugs doesn't know anything about your system |
| 21:13.04 | otisolsen70 | sney, yeah, I have that installed. However, normally it only informs me of things not asking Y/N questions. |
| 21:13.13 | otisolsen70 | sney, but this is apt-listbugs then? |
| 21:13.17 | sney | yes |
| 21:13.22 | karlpinc | otisolsen70: Dunno. I didn't read your paste. Once upon a time you needed to install some keys to get backports. So maybe I'm just a distraction.... |
| 21:14.10 | sney | otisolsen70: it will ask you to confirm for any bugs with severity "serious" or greater, I guess. but the bug is irrelevant to installing a binary of libreoffice anyway. |
| 21:14.26 | sney | FTBFS stands for Fails To Build From Source |
| 21:15.19 | otisolsen70 | OMG. Libreoffice just got so much faster! |
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| 21:15.43 | otisolsen70 | Like, orders of magnitude faster |
| 21:16.11 | otisolsen70 | This is incredible. I should have done this long time ago :) |
| 21:16.14 | otisolsen70 | Thanks for the hlep |
| 21:16.15 | otisolsen70 | help |
| 21:18.35 | NetTerminalGene | otisolsen70: what did you do? |
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| 21:18.49 | otisolsen70 | NetTerminalGene, installed libreoffice from backports. |
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| 21:19.41 | karlpinc | is pissed at libreoffice because you can't middle-mouse-paste into a calc cell. It used to work and I filed a bug.... |
| 21:20.25 | otisolsen70 | NetTerminalGene, I have this spreadsheet at about 7 sheets with each ~500 rows and between 20 and 100 colums and a dusin graphs. Every time I updated a cell it would literally take 3-5 seconds from I entered a number until LO would respond. Now it is just instantaneous. |
| 21:20.46 | sney | nice, spreadsheets are some heavy duty stuff sometimes |
| 21:21.16 | otisolsen70 | sney, this is primarily just basic stuff. Adding numbers. Nothing fancy. IT does not make sense that it would be so slow. |
| 21:21.28 | otisolsen70 | But for some reason it just was. |
| 21:21.40 | otisolsen70 | I dont think it was in the LO version shipped with debian 7, 8 and 9. |
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| 21:27.29 | oxek | yeah, the version of libreoffice in debian-stable is pretty much unusuable |
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| 21:32.20 | tcurdt | I never really understood the idea behind the 127.0.1.1 entry in /etc/hosts ... any pointers/explanation for that? |
| 21:32.46 | karlpinc | tcurdt: Look up "localhost" on wikipeida. |
| 21:33.01 | b4stsh3ll | that's the localhost |
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| 21:33.10 | CommunistWolf | in ipv4 you get all of 127/8 and it's great |
| 21:33.21 | CommunistWolf | having just ::1 in ivp6 is occasionally annoying |
| 21:33.29 | b4stsh3ll | yes |
| 21:33.34 | b4stsh3ll | totally |
| 21:33.57 | tcurdt | I consider 127.0.0.1 localhost |
| 21:34.04 | tcurdt | not 127.0.1.1 |
| 21:34.38 | oxek | all of 127.x.x.x is localhost |
| 21:34.43 | b4stsh3ll | https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-networking-3/what-does-127-0-1-1-mean-623421/ |
| 21:34.54 | tcurdt | because it's /8 sure |
| 21:35.04 | karlpinc | tcurdt: Although if somebody put 127.0.1.1 in there maybe they configured something to listen on that IP. |
| 21:35.09 | ratrace | CommunistWolf: but you get an entire /64 for the public IP |
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| 21:35.28 | CommunistWolf | "yay" |
| 21:35.28 | oxek | karlpinc: it's default debian it does that |
| 21:35.29 | mutante | A datagram sent by a higher-level protocol to an address anywhere within this block loops back inside the host. This is ordinarily implemented using only 127.0.0.1/32 for loopback. As described in [RFC1122], Section 3.2.1.3, addresses within the entire 127.0.0.0/8 block do not legitimately appear on any network anywhere. |
| 21:35.48 | ratrace | CommunistWolf: and there's the entire fe80:: range too . :) |
| 21:35.48 | greycat | Debian puts a line with 127.0.1.1 and the hostname that you defined at installation time, so that your hostname is always guaranteed to resolve to *something* that will actually work. |
| 21:35.50 | karlpinc | oxek: Not ...1.1. |
| 21:36.02 | CommunistWolf | well, my lo doesn't have any lladdrs |
| 21:36.04 | oxek | karlpinc: yes, 127.0.1.1, I have that on multiple systems here |
| 21:36.06 | oxek | all default |
| 21:36.11 | CommunistWolf | I'm not sure it'd be right |
| 21:36.11 | ratrace | greycat: actually, that's a workaround for an old gnome bug |
| 21:36.11 | greycat | karlpinc: it is the default, yes. |
| 21:36.24 | CommunistWolf | 127.255.255.254 is better anyway |
| 21:36.32 | mutante | .rfc 5735 |
| 21:36.47 | karlpinc | greycat: Really. Who knew? It didn't used to be because I've got 127.0.0.1. |
| 21:37.50 | ratrace | https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_hostname_resolution |
| 21:37.57 | b4stsh3ll | i've never seen 127.0.1.1 before |
| 21:38.10 | ratrace | .1.1 is a workaround for a gnome bug. there's no other technical reason to use .1.1 by teh installer |
| 21:38.18 | b4stsh3ll | that's just might be a loopback as normal 127.0.0.1 |
| 21:38.32 | ratrace | 127.0.0.1 is "localhost" but teh installer can add ANY alias you've set up to that line as well |
| 21:38.47 | b4stsh3ll | as well as 0.0.0.0 |
| 21:38.50 | ratrace | you can even FQDN it if you want |
| 21:39.30 | oxek | /etc/hosts is a mess anyway |
| 21:39.42 | oxek | so many different ways of doing it, every distro does it's own thing |
| 21:39.46 | karlpinc | oxek: You should celebrate flag day. |
| 21:39.52 | oxek | sometimes multiple entries on the same line |
| 21:39.55 | oxek | duplicates |
| 21:39.57 | oxek | ... |
| 21:40.00 | imMute | ratrace: fe80:: is not localhost though.... |
| 21:40.19 | oxek | anyway, systemd will make /etc/hosts a symlink soon anyway, and manage it through systemd |
| 21:40.21 | tcurdt | I read all the links but I still don't get the "it is necessary to ensure that the system hostname can be resolved" why not just add the hostname to 127.0.0.1? |
| 21:40.23 | ratrace | imMute: right, it's link local |
| 21:40.29 | ratrace | imMute: still usable |
| 21:40.47 | greycat | tcurdt: it spells it out quite clearly on https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_hostname_resolution |
| 21:41.03 | karlpinc | oxek: Flag day was the day they introduced dns, and switched away from having to distribute /etc/hosts to every host on the network. IIRC. Could be wrong. |
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| 21:41.33 | mutante | oxek: should all distros use systemd-hostsd or something? |
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| 21:42.32 | oxek | I don't understand why debian doesn't have a line like `127.0.0.1 localhost localhost.localdomain myhostname` in there instead of 127.0.1.1 |
| 21:42.52 | tcurdt | greycat: it does? to me it just reads like "do it this way" not why - but maybe I just missed the reason? ... re-reading ... again |
| 21:43.16 | tcurdt | oxek: exactly |
| 21:43.54 | ratrace | tcurdt: "The IP address 127.0.1.1 in the second line of this example may not be found on some other Unix-like systems. The Debian Installer creates this entry for a system without a permanent IP address as a workaround for some software (e.g., GNOME) as documented in the bug #719621." |
| 21:43.55 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/719621 in debian-reference (closed): «debian-reference: /etc/hosts description too old.»; severity: normal; opened: 2013-08-13; last modified: 2014-01-18. |
| 21:44.12 | greycat | and that bug points to #316099 which has an actual explanation |
| 21:44.13 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/316099 in netcfg (closed): «Please give system hostname IP address 127.0.1.1»; severity: normal; opened: 2005-06-28; last modified: 2007-06-24. |
| 21:46.56 | tcurdt | ratrace: that's not really a good enough explanation for me ... but I guess I'll find that in the bug descriptions |
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| 21:49.57 | ratrace | tcurdt: THAT is where the explanation is :) |
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| 21:53.01 | tcurdt | "The UNIX hostname should be written into /etc/hosts always on its own line, never as an alias for 'localhost.localdomain'" and the reason given is "[it] will ensure that if the UNIX hostname _is_ resolved then it will always be its own canonical hostname" |
| 21:54.31 | tcurdt | So the problem is that with multiple aliases for 127.0.0.1 it's not clear which the hostname is? |
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| 21:57.01 | greycat | the explanation given by the maintainer in the 3xxxxxx bug report seemed quite clear to me |
| 21:57.31 | greycat | In between [Thomas Hood] and the SHOULD NOT DO THIS part. |
| 22:00.08 | tcurdt | This here makes it clear to me: "[it] had the unwanted effect of making 'localhost.localdomain' the canonical hostname associated with the system hostname. That is, 'hostname --fqdn' returned 'localhost.localdomain'." |
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| 22:01.06 | tcurdt | That also seems to suggest listening just on 127.0.0.1 is bad. Instead listen on the whole /8 range |
| 22:01.20 | tcurdt | I wasn't aware of that at all |
| 22:01.42 | ratrace | I don't know how you made that conclusion. |
| 22:02.14 | ratrace | and you can't listen on the whole /8 range. you can only listen on the IP addresses assigned to your NICs. 0.0.0.0 has the implicit meaning of "all assigned" |
| 22:03.02 | tcurdt | "...most services that listen locally listen on all 127/8 addresses, not just on 127.0.0.1" |
| 22:03.08 | tcurdt | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=316099 |
| 22:03.09 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/316099 in netcfg (closed): «Please give system hostname IP address 127.0.1.1»; severity: normal; opened: 2005-06-28; last modified: 2007-06-24. |
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| 22:05.56 | ratrace | not sure what he means by that. "listen on" means opening a listening socket, to which you have to supply an IP ADDR, per libc APIs. |
| 22:06.18 | tcurdt | re-reading it I don't get it either |
| 22:06.40 | ratrace | even so ... assuming there's implicit 127/8 magic in teh stack, why would you think that listening on 127.0.0.1/32 would be bad? |
| 22:06.40 | greycat | most programs that listen, simply listen on 0.0.0.0 |
| 22:07.00 | ratrace | IF configured |
| 22:07.14 | Delta706 | how can I install the kernel headers corresponding to the running kernel? |
| 22:07.27 | tcurdt | not a fan of listening on 0.0.0.0 |
| 22:07.33 | ratrace | definitely. |
| 22:07.45 | greycat | Delta706: apt install linux-headers-"$(uname -r)" |
| 22:07.47 | ratrace | Delta706: install linux-headers-amd64 metapackage? |
| 22:08.07 | ratrace | ah... to the "running" kernel. yea, uname |
| 22:09.26 | Delta706 | I get "linux-headers-amd64 is already the newest version" |
| 22:10.17 | sney | ok, so you already have it. what's the real issue? |
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| 22:14.43 | ratrace | Delta706: note the difference between what I said and what greycat suggested. for _running_ kernel, which maybe a different one than default pulled in by the metapackage, you run with the uname |
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