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| 00:08.11 | doubletwist | thx I'll give that a shot |
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| 00:37.46 | ld | hello all, |
| 00:37.55 | ld | I am trying to set up my debian system as a router |
| 00:39.07 | ld | I've configured dnsmasq and hostapd to my interfaces specified in /etc/network/interfaces |
| 00:39.24 | somiaj | I would look into nftables |
| 00:40.07 | ld | but something prevents it from working... I notice that running "systemctl stop networking" causes it to begin working, partially |
| 00:41.12 | ld | systemd is pretty vexing |
| 00:42.05 | somiaj | Yea, I think it is more likely needing to configure things properly, my understanding is networking isn't this service that brings things up and down, it is more just a service to start networking at boot. |
| 00:42.35 | sussudio | ld: did you put net.ipv4.ip_forward=1 in /etc/sysctl.conf |
| 00:42.38 | ld | that is how it describes itself too |
| 00:42.42 | ld | sussudio: yes |
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| 00:44.08 | ld | most frustratingly although what I am doing is not complicated at all and my installation is virtually all defaults and no packages, it is impossible to succinctly and precisely describe & inspect the system's state |
| 00:44.54 | sussudio | i'd check the logs for any messages |
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| 00:47.03 | somiaj | since stoping networking kinda works, could it be that you need to not use the interfaces file to control your interfaces and let dnsmasq/hostpad do this instead (I don't know either, so unsure here) |
| 00:47.07 | sussudio | also, if the interfaces are assigned to the right ethernet ports |
| 00:47.16 | ld | I am suspicious that it is at least one of two things, (1) start order of "networking" "dnsmasq" and "hostapd" services needs to be controlled or changed, (2) "networking" somehow interferes with operation of the other two |
| 00:47.42 | ld | somiaj: yes that is possible |
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| 00:52.17 | ld | ok nevermind i figured it out |
| 00:52.18 | ld | i'll write it up |
| 00:52.25 | ld | somiaj: you guessed right |
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| 01:12.18 | ld | https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/a/124621/133551 |
| 01:12.52 | ld | my answer is for "raspbian" which i have no idea about |
| 01:12.54 | miu5 | Hi, when using gpg --keyserver keyring.debian.org --send-keys 0x673A03E4C1DB921F, i get gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found.. anyone help please? |
| 01:13.09 | Casper26 | ajoplin |
| 01:13.18 | miu5 | i follow instructions here https://keyring.debian.org/ |
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| 01:19.51 | miu5 | why is it so difficult to retrieve the signing key from debian? any other server i can download it from? |
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| 01:24.08 | miu5 | anyone?? |
| 01:24.32 | mutante | !ask |
| 01:24.32 | dpkg | If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ See <smart questions><errors>. |
| 01:24.50 | miu5 | Hi, when using gpg --keyserver keyring.debian.org --send-keys 0x673A03E4C1DB921F, i get gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found.. anyone help please? |
| 01:28.40 | miu5 | "Fetch a key - Once you know the key's ID, just ask the server for it:" |
| 01:29.06 | mutante | miu5: --send-keys is uploading to the key server, is that what you want to do ? |
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| 01:30.07 | miu5 | sorry i meant this, gpg --keyserver keyring.debian.org --recv-keys 0x673A03E4C1DB921F Doesnt work. |
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| 01:31.01 | miu5 | gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found. |
| 01:31.01 | miu5 | gpg: Total number processed: 0 |
| 01:32.10 | miu5 | server doesnt work, or is blocking. ive seen this happen before. |
| 01:32.20 | mutante | miu5: https://keyserver.ubuntu.com/pks/lookup?search=0x673A03E4C1DB921F&fingerprint=on&op=index |
| 01:33.08 | mutante | miu5: gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv-keys 0x673A03E4C1DB921F |
| 01:33.39 | miu5 | thanks mutante |
| 01:34.02 | mutante | np, some of the keyservers have issues |
| 01:34.17 | mutante | but they should sync to each other |
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| 01:36.19 | miu5 | Also, on https://keyring.debian.org/, its so vague whether the key they show in the examples belongs to the team. They dont actually state that "this is our key...." .. all they say is: "Fetch a key - Once you know the key's ID, just ask the server for it:" |
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| 01:38.35 | mutante | miu5: you can check who else already signed the key with --list-sigs . if that is a bunch of Debian people then it's more trustworthy |
| 01:38.43 | mutante | (web of trust) |
| 01:40.01 | miu5 | cool thanks |
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| 01:40.45 | monkwitdafunk | hello people of debian channel |
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| 03:55.18 | forgotmynick | with rsyslogd templates, is there a % to get the user name? |
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| 04:09.24 | Rodon | nmtui doesnt show available wifi list..despite nmcli/applet works fine.. |
| 04:11.34 | somiaj | Rodon: do you have your wifi in /etc/network/interfaces? |
| 04:11.50 | Rodon | wait..let me check |
| 04:12.01 | somiaj | oh is this just you don't get the scan happening, I might have missunderstood the issue |
| 04:12.28 | Rodon | ys. everything works..but nmtui doesnt scan.. |
| 04:13.32 | Rodon | auto lo |
| 04:13.34 | Rodon | iface lo inet loopback |
| 04:13.48 | somiaj | yea, I'm unsure why nmtui wouldn't be showing a wireless scan, not a tool I use. |
| 04:13.48 | Rodon | source /etc/network/interfaces.d/* |
| 04:14.09 | Rodon | now these lines in interfaces... |
| 04:14.12 | somiaj | My thought was nm not showing the wifi adapter, not scanning is something different I wouldn't know how to best debug |
| 04:15.20 | Rodon | everything works ...but only nmtui doesnt show list... i use nmtui mostly.. |
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| 04:38.38 | brizz | i have an issue with my terminal, in python, when I press direction keys, [[A is output, and I can't scroll up, or go right or left with the cursor. it seems to happen after I paste with ctrl+shift+v. I have another server where this does not happen. What could be causing this? |
| 04:41.00 | oxek | brizz: bad/incomplete terminfo |
| 04:41.18 | oxek | make sure the ncurses-term package is installed |
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| 04:41.27 | oxek | and make sure your terminal correctly identifies itself in $TERM |
| 04:42.12 | brizz | even closing out terminal and re-opening it stays broken |
| 04:42.49 | brizz | it is installed |
| 04:43.46 | brizz | whats weird is i can sudo (when it goes broken), and it wont carry over to root. but im sure if i ctrl+shift+v it will probably do it for root too |
| 04:44.19 | oxek | terminal emulator are you using? What is the value of $TERM? Are you using screen/tmux as well? |
| 04:44.27 | oxek | are you on debian stable? |
| 04:44.53 | brizz | yes on debian stable, using default terminal, tho i tried 'FISH" tooo (i use fish shell) |
| 04:45.08 | oxek | I don't know what "default terminal" is |
| 04:45.13 | brizz | xterm-256color |
| 04:45.16 | brizz | gnome |
| 04:45.20 | brizz | whatever is installed |
| 04:46.28 | brizz | seems to only be doing it with python 3.9 term |
| 04:46.34 | brizz | or interpreter |
| 04:46.56 | brizz | 3.7 works too |
| 04:47.29 | oxek | in that case, possibly an issue with the python interpreter. Try asking whoever gave you python3.9, since it is not provided by debian. |
| 04:47.47 | brizz | i installed from source |
| 04:48.03 | oxek | tell them that you're using debian stable, gnome-terminal, $TERM is xterm-256color and you have ncurses-term package installed. |
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| 05:32.19 | Arahael | brizz: I also use fish, and it's unrelated to this issue - fish is not a terminal. It's a shell. (And it's "fish", not "FISH" - unix systems are case sensitive) |
| 05:39.31 | oxek | it's clearly a python issue, because it all works fine in 3.7 but not in 3.9 |
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| 05:43.35 | zumba_addict | hi all. How do I enable mp4 module in nginx? |
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| 05:47.00 | somiaj | oxek: could also be a complication issue in which their self complie didn't build with all the correct libaries. |
| 05:47.19 | somiaj | brizz: ^^ |
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| 05:48.33 | oxek | somiaj: yeah, that's what I meant but expressed myself poorly |
| 05:50.18 | nkuttler | zumba_addict: you link to the modules from /etc/nginx/modules-enabled and restart nginx |
| 05:50.31 | zumba_addict | it's good now |
| 05:50.38 | zumba_addict | I had to install nginx-extras |
| 05:51.00 | somiaj | zumba_addict: looks like if you have the nginx-extras package installed you probably just need to add the link to the module in /etc/nginx/mods-enabled (the module will be in /usr/share/nginx/modules-available). |
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| 06:52.52 | jadelclemens | Hey all, I've searched all over but haven't found a resolution to this. I'm trying to mount an NFS share (Arch host) onto a Debian machine. I can mount it, but for some reason my user cannot access the share ("Stale file handle") even though the directory mode is sound (757). |
| 06:53.13 | jadelclemens | Root can ls and touch files reliably, only my user has this issue. |
| 06:53.39 | jadelclemens | Standard advice is to unmount share, restart the NFS service, and remount. I've had no such luck. |
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| 08:51.50 | jolt | nfs4? I'm no expert but it sounds like auth doesn't work somehow, maybe idmap? |
| 08:52.15 | jolt | Too late :/ |
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| 09:00.52 | jelly | we may never know what the answer was |
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| 09:39.51 | TheBigK | for inotify to work properly, does the file need be owned by the specific user? im using minidlna on my raspi as the minidlna user. I added the user to my group for media and when i switch to that user and try to read those files it works. But when something is added. The deamon logs "Could not access" and then the path of the new added directory (permission denied) |
| 09:40.23 | TheBigK | Do i actually need to change the user of minidlna? That would be quite annoying since i need to change the permission of everything... /run /var/log etc |
| 09:41.08 | TheBigK | just inotify doesnt work properly yet |
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| 09:51.51 | jelly | TheBigK, uh, if you want the dlna server to serve files, of course it has to be able to read them (read perms) and access the directory (read and executable perms) |
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| 09:53.30 | jelly | ,v mediatomb |
| 09:53.31 | judd | Package: mediatomb on amd64 -- stretch-multimedia: 1:0.12.1+git20150713-dmo5 |
| 09:53.35 | jelly | huh |
| 09:53.40 | jelly | ,bug rm mediatomb |
| 09:53.43 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/870936 in ftp.debian.org (closed): «RM: mediatomb -- RoM; dead upstream, obsoleted by gerbera»; severity: normal; opened: 2017-08-06; last modified: 2018-01-09. |
| 09:53.48 | jelly | ,v gerbera |
| 09:53.49 | judd | Package: gerbera on amd64 -- buster: 1.1.0+dfsg-3+b1; bullseye: 1.1.0+dfsg-3+b4; sid: 1.1.0+dfsg-3+b4; buster-multimedia: 1:1.3.2-dmo1; bullseye-multimedia: 1:1.8.0-dmo1; sid-multimedia: 1:1.8.0-dmo1 |
| 09:54.28 | jelly | TheBigK, FWIW, mediatomb was a LOT more reliable than minidlna back when I cared about that |
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| 10:11.26 | TheBigK | jelly: i might give that a shot... but read permissions the minidlna has.. but somehow the inotify doesnt work ... when i restart minidlna to rebuild the db .... the new added directories gets added and i can also access it |
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| 13:27.26 | ska | Is anyone familiar with the docker images at https://hub.docker.com/_/debian ? Is stable same as buster images? |
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| 13:34.21 | petn-randall | ska: "stable" there means the same as "stable" in Debian: The latest stable release, which currently is buster, but will point to bullseye in a couple of months. |
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| 13:39.07 | ska | ok... makes sense.. Is there an obvious way to tell by looking at their directory stucture? |
| 13:39.42 | petn-randall | ska: I'd just pick the release name, that way you know what release you're getting. |
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| 14:02.18 | dostoyevsky | I am trying to build a debian-buster image in a dockerfile but the build hangs at "apt install -y --reinstall coreutils" ... since like 2000s; htop isn't showing any cpu activity... |
| 14:02.43 | oxek | dostoyevsky: I have the same issue |
| 14:02.48 | oxek | it's a networking issue |
| 14:02.51 | oxek | don't know how to solve it |
| 14:03.01 | dostoyevsky | oxek: debian server problem? |
| 14:03.09 | oxek | no |
| 14:03.13 | oxek | docker problem |
| 14:03.19 | oxek | meaning the docker version in debian |
| 14:03.54 | oxek | if you restart the dockerfile build several times, it will work one of those times |
| 14:03.59 | oxek | I suspect some sort of race condition |
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| 14:07.11 | dostoyevsky | when I remove the --reinstall it's working ... |
| 14:07.50 | dostoyevsky | just then hangs at the next --reinstall ... I used --reinstall because I wanted to have man pages... and hence reinstall |
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| 14:11.26 | petn-randall | dostoyevsky: Can you retrieve the terminal output from apt somehow? That would be helpful to debug the issue. |
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| 14:19.13 | Walex2 | dostoyevsky: the difficulty there I suspect is that 'coreutils' is "essential", so other packages like 'apt' may depend on it without declaring it, and complications may happen. |
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| 14:20.20 | jelly | dostoyevsky, why are you reinstalling coreutils |
| 14:20.51 | jelly | or, why are you using an image of an OS without man pages |
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| 14:21.45 | jelly | how does that even happen |
| 14:24.03 | dostoyevsky | jelly: not part of debian:buster-slim... |
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| 14:24.55 | jelly | maybe don't use slim? |
| 14:26.22 | Walex2 | was just looking at 'dpkg -L coreutils' and discovered some "new" commands like 'stdbuf' and 'pinky' |
| 14:26.39 | jelly | https://hub.docker.com/_/debian explicitely says > debian:<suite>-slim |
| 14:26.39 | jelly | These tags are an experiment in providing a slimmer base (removing some extra files that are normally not necessary within containers, such as man pages and documentation), and are definitely subject to change. |
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| 14:27.35 | jelly | if the container is meant for interactive use, you probably want a non-crippled installation |
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| 14:33.09 | dostoyevsky | well, I use debian:buster now as the FROM and removed the --reinstall and enabling of the man pages and now the container is building again without hanging so far |
| 14:33.48 | dostoyevsky | but the container built fine in the last months... without hanging |
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| 14:44.33 | petn-randall | dostoyevsky: Given that the contents "are subject to change', they might have changed something that broke it. |
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| 15:16.36 | dostoyevsky | hmm.. now the docker build is hanging at "apt -update -y" ... Maybe I have more luck in a couple of days |
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| 15:18.26 | oxek | `apt -update` is wrong syntax |
| 15:18.54 | dostoyevsky | yeha, "apt update -y" |
| 15:19.24 | oxek | and I get the same hangs |
| 15:20.01 | dostoyevsky | At least I am not the only one |
| 15:20.17 | oxek | there are dozens of us! dozens! |
| 15:20.30 | oxek | people come in this channel with this exact docker problem from time to time |
| 15:20.54 | oxek | it doesn't happen on other distros, and doesn't happen with upstream docker |
| 15:21.10 | oxek | so the issue is in the version packaged in debian |
| 15:21.14 | dostoyevsky | Maybe I should migrate this Dockerfile to a more stable distro, like arch |
| 15:21.30 | oxek | arch, "stable" |
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| 16:05.23 | Walex2 | finds this discussion so typical of IRC :-( |
| 16:08.41 | GNU\colossus | some random shit about docker? more typical of these uncivilised times :p |
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| 16:13.31 | petn-randall | dostoyevsky: If you haven't debugged the issue, you can't really blame it on a distro. Correlation doesn't imply causation. |
| 16:13.52 | petn-randall | dostoyevsky: ... which is why I specifically asked for debug output. |
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| 16:28.22 | ValeraRozuvan | Is there an official guide on how to make contrib and non-free packages (especially drivers) available during a Debian install? |
| 16:29.48 | somiaj | ValeraRozuvan: sounds like you need firmware, easiest way is to use the firmware instller |
| 16:29.51 | somiaj | !firmware images |
| 16:29.51 | dpkg | There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ The images are "unofficial" because "official Debian" includes only 100% free software. They are otherwise identical to the normal installer images and prepared by the same Debian Developers. See <check iso>. |
| 16:30.14 | somiaj | Otherwise read the install guide, there are instructions to make firmware available during the install on a second drive. |
| 16:30.37 | ValeraRozuvan | And in the name "unofficial" simply means that it's built be official Debian maintainers but not officially endorsed by Debian? |
| 16:31.06 | ValeraRozuvan | In the URL ... cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/... |
| 16:31.21 | oxek | it means it's not part of debian |
| 16:32.04 | oxek | and since it is not officially part of debian, it doesn't strictly matter who built it |
| 16:32.58 | oxek | there are no guarantees that it doesn't contain rootkits, keyloggers, and all sorts of other malware |
| 16:33.03 | somiaj | ValeraRozuvan: the factoid stated this, it just means debian's offical releases must be 100% free, these are provdied for those who choose to want non-free firmware with the understanding that they are non-free |
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| 16:34.22 | ValeraRozuvan | OK ... it's a bad situation that you need non-free stuff in order to use my current hardware ... |
| 16:34.26 | somiaj | ValeraRozuvan: But if you are going to choose to install contrib and non-free packages provided by debian, this installer is provided in similar a vain. |
| 16:34.51 | ValeraRozuvan | For example my WiFi. I guess I have to research and buy a system which is 100% supported by pure Debian. |
| 16:34.57 | somiaj | ValeraRozuvan: It is unfourntally too common with certain hardawre (wifi is a big one and gpus second) that need non-free firmware. |
| 16:35.55 | somiaj | ValeraRozuvan: Here it is up to personal choice, but it is hard to find 100% free wifi (note even wifi that doens't provide userland firmware often has non-free firmware already flashed onto it, there are a very limited number of chipsets that allow you to flash free firmware onto them) |
| 16:36.16 | ValeraRozuvan | One solution - don't use WiFi ;) |
| 16:36.18 | somiaj | ValeraRozuvan: so though userland firmware may have some additional trust, lots of hardware already comes with non-free firwmare flashed onto it |
| 16:36.35 | petn-randall | oxek: Eh, no? non-free doesn't mean Debian gives a free pass on malware. It just means it's not DFSG software, but is still redistributable. |
| 16:36.44 | somiaj | There are sites out there for fully libre machines that you can flash 100% open firmware onto them, but these are very limited set of hardware. |
| 16:37.04 | ValeraRozuvan | By the way - are the new Raspberry Pi completely open source? I.e. 100% pure Debian will work out of the box? |
| 16:37.39 | oxek | petn-randall: non-free firmware by definition could contain anything, including malware |
| 16:38.05 | oxek | it means debian would be supplying a black box that nobody inspected, and hence it cannot be official |
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| 16:38.36 | somiaj | ValeraRozuvan: Again you might want to clarify what that means, there will still be non-free firmware flashed onto some of the chips it uses, so just because you don't need userland non-free firwmare doesn't mean you have 100% free hardware. |
| 16:38.51 | ValeraRozuvan | Agreed. |
| 16:39.20 | somiaj | ValeraRozuvan: https://raspi.debian.net/ if you are intersted in debian raspi images. |
| 16:39.28 | ValeraRozuvan | I am looking at Google results - can't find a concrete resource which will list parts for a PC that will be covered 100% by pure Debian install. |
| 16:39.33 | ValeraRozuvan | Any suggestions? |
| 16:39.33 | petn-randall | ValeraRozuvan: The RPis are not open source. But you can boot the RPi4 with stock Debian, AFAIR. |
| 16:40.01 | oxek | ValeraRozuvan: https://h-node.org/ |
| 16:40.11 | petn-randall | oxek: What about non-free software that also ships the source? |
| 16:40.19 | somiaj | ValeraRozuvan: I personally prefer userland firmware over having to flash new firmware on hardware if there are bugs. But yes you do have to put trust in the manfacture of the hardware/firmware. |
| 16:40.43 | oxek | petn-randall: different meanings of non-free. For firmware, it's not only not dfsg compliant, but also closed source. |
| 16:40.43 | jhutchins | ValeraRozuvan: Who would create such a list? |
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| 16:41.01 | oxek | and closed source means it could do anything at all |
| 16:41.14 | oxek | jhutchins: https://h-node.org/ does |
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| 16:42.18 | somiaj | ValeraRozuvan: Wifi is the biggest block if you don't want to use non-free firmware. There are a very limited set of wifi devices that don't have userland firmware (though most will still have non-free firmware flashed on them). I belive there are a few atheos chips you can flash purely free firmware on, but these are fairly rare. |
| 16:42.47 | ksynwa | Where can I find what kernel versions are available in Debian? Was wondering if Testing/Unstable have newer kernel versions. Thanks. |
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| 16:43.26 | somiaj | ValeraRozuvan: Again here it is personal choice, but as for say intel's wifi, they ship additional userland firmware vs having it flashed onto the device, this allows easier updates. So if you trust intel, you can decide if you want to trust their firmware or not. Though as you said, not using wifi is an easy solution. |
| 16:43.49 | oxek | ,kernel |
| 16:43.51 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.10.0-trunk-686 (5.10.2-1~exp1); sid: 5.10.0-6-686 (5.10.28-1); bullseye: 5.10.0-6-686 (5.10.28-1); buster-backports: 5.10.0-0.bpo.5-686-pae (5.10.24-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-16-686-pae (4.19.181-1); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.16-686 (4.19.181-1~deb9u1); jessie-backports: |
| 16:43.52 | judd | 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1) |
| 16:43.52 | oxek | ksynwa: ^ |
| 16:44.07 | somiaj | ksynwa: test/unstable/backports will often have fairly recent kernels, though due to the freeze they won't be that many new kernels until after the release of bullseye. |
| 16:44.37 | somiaj | ksynwa: and as oxek listed the current status. Are you wanting a newer kenerl on stable? |
| 16:46.08 | ksynwa | somiaj: Bullseye is the version after Buster I assume? |
| 16:46.20 | ksynwa | Thanks very much oxek somiaj |
| 16:46.29 | somiaj | ksynwa: yes, and will be released in the next month or two from what I hear |
| 16:46.52 | somiaj | ksynwa: but you can use the backports kernel on stable if you want to wait for the release but still need a newer kernel |
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| 16:48.04 | ksynwa | somiaj: I am still looking into stable/testing/unstable but I have no problem using testing or unstable. |
| 16:48.34 | ksynwa | From what I am reading they are pretty stable so I am open to them |
| 16:48.42 | petn-randall | oxek: Sure, but we were talking about non-free software in Debian. Which is not DFSG compliant. And Debian wouldn't ship non-free software with known malware. |
| 16:50.30 | somiaj | ksynwa: many do use them, though they do come with additional issues. Things can and will break, testing gets slow security support. I would personally suggest waiting for bullseye's release, but if you can deal with slow security support, its in a fairly frozen state right now, and you could install it, and just keep it upgraded, when it releases you'll be on the next stable release. |
| 16:50.43 | somiaj | ksynwa: though if you just need a newer kernel in stable, the backports kernel is the route I would go. |
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| 16:51.20 | DJAnonimo | hello, how to check for system corruption? |
| 16:51.33 | ksynwa | somiaj: Thanks very much |
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| 16:52.20 | somiaj | DJAnonimo: debsums is one such tool that checks installed files from debian packages |
| 16:53.08 | oxek | petn-randall: closed source firmware can have unknown malware, and debian still unofficially distributes it |
| 16:53.44 | jhutchins | DJAnonimo: Why do you suspect corruption? |
| 16:53.49 | oxek | we're going in circles anyway. The point is that the 'unofficial' images that contain closed source firmware are not official releases of debian. |
| 16:54.23 | oxek | and official releases of debian have at least some sort of guarantee to be malware free |
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| 16:54.36 | ValeraRozuvan | Agreed. |
| 16:56.45 | jhutchins | Among other things you have thousands of other people running it, any malware would be likely to show up somewhere. |
| 16:57.07 | jhutchins | That's pretty much the whole OS argument. Lots of eyeballs and real feedback. |
| 16:58.32 | oxek | might only show up in uranium refining facilities |
| 16:59.17 | oxek | making the malware only activate on a very specific hardware signature |
| 16:59.23 | oxek | lots of eyeballs won't apply then |
| 16:59.35 | ValeraRozuvan | Is it hard to reverse engineer these binary firmware packages? |
| 17:00.14 | oxek | ValeraRozuvan: extremely, because they work in combination with closed hardware |
| 17:01.14 | oxek | e.g. we still don't know how many hidden instructions CPUs have, sandsifter keeps on finding new ones all the time |
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| 17:04.05 | ValeraRozuvan | Should we really care about closed source firmware - if Intel has the ME built in with closed source OS running in ring -3? |
| 17:05.03 | DJAnonimo | jhutchins: because the system do not start booting every time |
| 17:05.16 | DJAnonimo | need to power off the device and plug again |
| 17:06.15 | EdePopede | could be a race condition, could be a hardware issue, but including a transmision problem |
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| 17:09.35 | jhutchins | DJAnonimo: Did it work before? |
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| 17:10.47 | somiaj | ValeraRozuvan: Some do, some don't, but it is just hard to find fully open libre hardware. |
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| 17:12.07 | jhutchins | somiaj: Would you say closed firmware is mostly wifi and video? |
| 17:13.10 | somiaj | jhutchins: that is my experience, and wifi is that way due to laws about wireless transmissions (compaines are required to have more control over the hardware and not let users go outside of power ranges/frequencies) |
| 17:13.34 | somiaj | gpus are just because well high end gpus are a cash cow and their creaters keep everything closed |
| 17:14.55 | somiaj | even openwrt has issues with this, basically they have a very strong stance and just will not help or provide any information on how to adjust the frequencies/power of the routers to avoid leagal issues with giving open firmware for those. |
| 17:17.01 | somiaj | intel use to be a decent gpu if you didn't care too much about 3d gaming style stuff, but even now their newer cards require firmware (though at least use open drivers) |
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| 17:18.11 | ValeraRozuvan | But good thing - Linux kernel is nowdays mainstream - and companies actually provide firmware (binary) for Linux. |
| 17:18.27 | ValeraRozuvan | Better to run Linux on modern hardware. |
| 17:19.26 | mutante | Oh, i had never heard that reason for wifi needing nonfree.. TIL |
| 17:19.30 | somiaj | ValeraRozuvan: yea, and given the standard practices, it is at least a decen compermise, open drivers in the kernel and userland firmware to make it so updates are easier than flashign the hardware. |
| 17:19.35 | ValeraRozuvan | Like - if you look at MINIX - it suffers due to lack of drivers & firmware - not gaining a large user base because of this. Linux on the other hand - getting Love from Big Tech. |
| 17:20.32 | somiaj | mutante: that is my understanding why there is so few wifi cards that dont' require non-free firmware, there are lots of restrictions on wireless communications (at least in the usa, though assume other countries do have some laws about this) |
| 17:21.06 | mutante | interesting, ack |
| 17:21.12 | ValeraRozuvan | Anyways - Debian is awesome! Started with it back in 2005-2006. Never looked back. |
| 17:21.52 | somiaj | mutante: this even dates back to pre wifi and hamm radio days, even those are quite restrictive. |
| 17:25.20 | somiaj | ValeraRozuvan: and though there is this non-free distinction, it is better than when the linux kernel us to just ship the firmware directly, as opposed to having it as a separate thing so users were clear that they are getting non-free firmware and have to put their trust in the company that provides it. |
| 17:25.45 | somiaj | but that was quite a long time ago now. |
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| 17:26.57 | somiaj | But that is one of the things I like about debian, is it is at least clear on the distinction between free and non-free, and gives users the choice and control of what they choose. |
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| 17:28.31 | jhutchins | somiaj: I believe that's the reason. I think the wifi chipsets that don't require firmware have the code embedded in the hardware. |
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| 17:33.25 | ValeraRozuvan | Linux kernel has some diferentiation between hardware drivers which don't require firmware code to load, and hardware drivers which require firmware. |
| 17:35.00 | jhutchins | ValeraRozuvan: Like I said, the ones that don't require external firmware have the code imbedded, and like somaj said that makes updates difficult. |
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| 17:35.22 | jhutchins | I've never re-flashed a wifi or graphics card. |
| 17:40.52 | somiaj | jhutchins: I have heard of one version of atheros chips you can flash open firmware on, but I to have the same understanding, just because it doens't require userland non-free firmware doesn't mean there isn't non-free firmware in use. |
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| 17:44.56 | Synaptic | Hello, i need help if possible:  i have a debian dedicated server and a debian vps,   the dedicated server is a storage server, i would like to configure MFS in order to share the drive on the VPS, i alredy installed it, and setup, but from VPS i cannot mount it... i can ping the dedicate, i nmap it and i see the port open, and i also |
| 17:44.57 | Synaptic | try to telnet and i connect to the MSF port. |
| 17:46.25 | Synaptic | NSF sorry |
| 17:47.20 | Synaptic | NFS... lol sorry again |
| 17:49.19 | jhutchins | Synaptic: What do the logs say about it? Do you have any firewall? |
| 17:49.23 | jhutchins | https://www.serverstack.com/blog/2012/11/21/debugging-nfs-file-access-on-server-and-client-side/index.html |
| 17:49.37 | Synaptic | ufw is disabled and iptables i have not |
| 17:49.55 | jhutchins | It's possible that they're trying to use different versions of the progocol; |
| 17:50.01 | Synaptic | i edited also the hosts.allow and i put the ip of the VPS |
| 17:50.06 | jhutchins | Same version of Debian on both systems? |
| 17:50.24 | Synaptic | i written wrong, the Dedicated is debian 10Â but VPS is ubuntu 18 |
| 17:50.42 | jhutchins | There you go. Different protocol versions. |
| 17:51.03 | Synaptic | but it just says connection timed out |
| 17:51.08 | jhutchins | Synaptic: The address of the client should be in the share definition. |
| 17:51.19 | jhutchins | Synaptic: And the server? |
| 17:51.28 | Synaptic | wait i make few pastebin |
| 17:53.18 | jhutchins | Synaptic: Have you run showmount -e on the server and showmount -e <server> on the client? |
| 17:53.36 | Synaptic | https://pastebin.com/b1hmF7vm |
| 17:53.45 | Synaptic | this is the dedicated (server) |
| 17:54.02 | Synaptic | ye, showmount -e  (server ip)  showing  timed out after 2 mins |
| 17:54.46 | Synaptic | showmount  is not installed on the server |
| 17:55.49 | Synaptic | debian@ns569769:~$ sudo showmount -e |
| 17:55.49 | Synaptic | Export list for ns569769: |
| 17:55.50 | Synaptic | debian@ns569769:~$ |
| 17:55.56 | Synaptic | yes, in the server is showing |
| 17:56.23 | Synaptic | Â /mnt/md0/vpsplot * |
| 17:57.18 | jhutchins | Could be a portmap problem. |
| 17:57.39 | jhutchins | Sorry, called away. |
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| 17:59.36 | Synaptic | portmap is now rpcbind |
| 18:00.29 | Synaptic | debian@vmi584316:~$ sudo showmount -e 149****** clnt_create: RPC: Port mapper failure - Timed out |
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| 18:03.25 | jhutchins | Make sure rpcbind (you're right) is working. |
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| 18:03.53 | jhutchins | I'll try to remember some of my other diagnostics while I'm away. |
| 18:04.06 | Synaptic | i found something |
| 18:04.33 | Synaptic | https://pastebin.com/wAwEQm0s |
| 18:05.10 | Synaptic | and this is the hosts.allow |
| 18:05.14 | Synaptic | https://pastebin.com/kjwgMYhc |
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| 18:07.47 | jhutchins | Synaptic: Try forcing both of them to NFS3. |
| 18:07.55 | jhutchins | Now I really am gone. |
| 18:08.03 | Synaptic | ok |
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| 18:15.14 | ndroftheline | hello all |
| 18:16.00 | ndroftheline | i'd like some help with root on an mdadm device |
| 18:16.17 | ndroftheline | for some reason i just can't get it to behave |
| 18:17.23 | ndroftheline | during the install, everything looks great. but first boot, it always comes up from one of the member drives instead of the mdadm volume |
| 18:18.07 | ndroftheline | once booted i can just mdadm -As and the volume shows up |
| 18:18.22 | ndroftheline | but of course it's degraded because i'm running off one of the members directly :( |
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| 18:20.52 | ndroftheline | it's a supermicro machine i'm trying to set up as a zfs backup system. it's got two m.2 SSDs connected to its onboard controller. the mdadm volume is an imsm (created by the onboard intel rste controller). i want to keep it as an intel rste volume for consistency with other machines. |
| 18:21.22 | ndroftheline | i've tried to follow the steps at https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/SataRaid |
| 18:22.33 | ndroftheline | using mdadm instead of dmraid |
| 18:23.38 | *** join/#debian TheCreeper (~TheCreepe@unaffiliated/thecreeper) |
| 18:25.51 | ndroftheline | but i think i need some more hints |
| 18:26.31 | *** join/#debian badsektor (~badsektor@unaffiliated/badsektor) |
| 18:26.59 | ndroftheline | seems to suggest the system has to be already installed, in order to start - ie, "install package mdadm" suggests it's already a running system. then once the last thing is suggested, it says "boot into Rescue mode, investigate" - as if the last step is boot to rescue which i'm confused by. |
| 18:27.20 | ndroftheline | hints welcome :) |
| 18:30.06 | jmcnaught | ndroftheline: are you configuring RAID in your EFI/BIOS or in the debian installer? |
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| 18:32.27 | ndroftheline | jmcnaught, i'm happy to do either at this point, but was expecting to configure the raid volume in bios |
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| 18:33.18 | ndroftheline | and have done that so far. |
| 18:33.50 | jmcnaught | ndroftheline: if the computer has a hardware RAID controller then that would be the way to go, but if not then I would set the SATA drives to AHCI and use Linux's software RAID which can be configured in the installer. |
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| 18:34.04 | jelly | ndroftheline, pastebin your current /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf, output of lsblk, and output of "debconf-get-selections|grep mdadm/initrdstart" if you have debconf-utils installed |
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| 18:37.20 | jelly | that wiki page seems outdated. |
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| 18:38.07 | jelly | video=vesa:ywrap,mtrr vga=788 # these VESA BIOS things were done 12 years ago to get nice fb resolutions |
| 18:38.21 | ndroftheline | yeah it does seem pretty badly outdated :( |
| 18:38.36 | jelly | vesafb hasn't been a thing to rely on since kernel modesetting |
| 18:38.45 | ndroftheline | note i'm in a recovery prompt, but here's my mdadm.conf http://paste.debian.net/1196695 |
| 18:38.50 | ndroftheline | which just came from the installer |
| 18:39.40 | jelly | mmm, okay that looks quite different from what md native formats set up |
| 18:40.00 | jelly | also pastebin your /etc/fstab, then |
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| 18:40.33 | ndroftheline | paste.debian.net/1196698 |
| 18:40.48 | jelly | roughly it sounds like initrd support for md doesn't run or doesn't recognize the initialized array |
| 18:41.21 | jelly | no separate /boot? |
| 18:41.36 | jelly | waits for other pastes |
| 18:41.49 | dostoyevsky | Ok, I made an image of the docker container before it hung, and then ran `apt -y -oDebug::pkgAcquire::Worker=1 update' to show where it hangs: http://paste.debian.net/hidden/ad65c3a2 |
| 18:42.17 | dostoyevsky | Last line is: 0% [Waiting for headers] <- gpgv:201%20URI%20Done%0aGPGVOutput:%20GOODSIG%2004EE7237B7D453EC%0a%20GOODSIG%20648ACFD622F3D138% |
| 18:42.20 | dostoyevsky | 0aSigned-By:%200146DC6D4A0B2914BDED34DB648ACFD622F3D138!%0a%2016E90B3FDF65EDE3AA7F323C04EE7237B7D453EC!%0a%2080D15823B7FD1561 |
| 18:42.22 | dostoyevsky | F9F7BCDDDC30D7C23CBBABEE%0a%20E1CF20DDFFE4B89E802658F1E0B11894F66AEC98%0aURI:%20gpgv:/var/lib/apt/lists/deb.debian.org_debian |
| 18:42.25 | dostoyevsky | _dists_buster-updates_InRelease%0aFilename:%20/var/lib/apt/lists/deb.debian.org_debian_dists_buster-updates_InRelease |
| 18:42.26 | Deano59 | stop! |
| 18:42.30 | jelly | dostoyevsky, that's unreadable |
| 18:42.41 | ndroftheline | lsblk: paste.debian.net/1196699 |
| 18:44.09 | dostoyevsky | jelly: unreadable? |
| 18:44.13 | ndroftheline | debconf: paste.debian.net/1196700 |
| 18:44.30 | jelly | dostoyevsky, too much noise to bother deciphering the output |
| 18:44.39 | ndroftheline | note my fstab is the only part of this system i've modified, |
| 18:44.46 | jelly | all the uriescaped stuff, for example |
| 18:45.05 | ndroftheline | roughly trying to follow the advice in that (outdated) sataraid page |
| 18:45.23 | ndroftheline | that's why i'm in a recovery shell atm instead of booted off one of the member disks |
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| 18:45.39 | jelly | ndroftheline, okay, so first thing, mdadm package is not configured to bring up any md array at boot |
| 18:45.51 | dostoyevsky | jelly: Should I open a ticket with debian that `apt -y -oDebug::pkgAcquire::Worker=1 update' that their debug output is unreadable? |
| 18:46.24 | jelly | dostoyevsky, show the output of "apt update" without any other parameters, for starters |
| 18:47.58 | jelly | ndroftheline, it is unfortunate that this recovery shell is ALSO booted mounting from a single member apparently |
| 18:48.18 | ndroftheline | yes. i can get into a rescue shell off install media if that's better |
| 18:48.18 | jelly | ndroftheline, can you boot a live image of some sort instead? |
| 18:48.35 | jelly | not the installer, it's a crappy rescue |
| 18:48.44 | jelly | grml.org or debian live |
| 18:48.48 | ndroftheline | well. hm. i actually haven't successfully booted the "debian live" ever on this system. it's like it doesn't support uefi? |
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| 18:49.26 | jelly | it supports uefi if you write the image properly |
| 18:49.40 | ndroftheline | i'm directly mounting it with ipmi virtual cdrom |
| 18:49.47 | ndroftheline | which might be the problem |
| 18:49.50 | jelly | that ought to work then |
| 18:49.57 | ndroftheline | yeah, well that's what i figured :( |
| 18:50.07 | jelly | that usually presents as usb cdrom device |
| 18:50.12 | ndroftheline | let me try again |
| 18:50.43 | jelly | grml.org is nice for rescue work and it's debian-based |
| 18:52.02 | dostoyevsky | http://paste.debian.net/hidden/bc487fba <- now it's just `apt update -y' |
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| 18:53.50 | ndroftheline | i'll get hold of gmrl, i'm now booted into gpartedlive which appears to be debian |
| 18:54.40 | jelly | dostoyevsky, problems accessing deb.debian.org CDN? |
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| 18:54.43 | mutante | grml has the best release names of any project |
| 18:54.49 | mutante | remember Schluchtenscheisser |
| 18:56.01 | jelly | I only remember the one for 2014.03 Ponywagon |
| 19:00.03 | ndroftheline | booting grml now. |
| 19:02.40 | ndroftheline | ok cool i'm at the grml-quickconfig prompt |
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| 19:03.13 | ndroftheline | i'll drop to a shell |
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| 19:05.01 | ndroftheline | wow there's a message in the grml boot process that says "boot using 'swraid' as bootoption for autostart |
| 19:05.13 | ndroftheline | is that the key i wonder? |
| 19:07.17 | ndroftheline | no, i think that's a grml-specific function |
| 19:08.05 | ndroftheline | which points to the kernel parameters docs, which point to this maybe: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/Documentation/admin-guide/md.rst |
| 19:08.52 | ndroftheline | md=md126,sdo,sdm ? |
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| 19:09.30 | ndroftheline | i thought i read that using the kernel's assembly isn't helpful anymore though so not sure that's the way forward. |
| 19:15.22 | ndroftheline | teehee it looks like i've hosed the weird boot-off-a-member install i had |
| 19:16.27 | ndroftheline | i can't assemble it anymore |
| 19:16.27 | ndroftheline | http://paste.debian.net/1196704/ |
| 19:17.14 | ndroftheline | i'll try to reinstall the same way i had before but boot to grml after installing rather than the installed debian |
| 19:17.48 | ndroftheline | i want to nuke the drives incase all the screwing around i've been doing has put confusing data somewhere. recommended ways to reliably clear the member disks of relevant data? |
| 19:18.49 | ndroftheline | oh, i missed that - grml assembled the array as a dmraid instead of using mdadm :o |
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| 19:24.12 | ndroftheline | well that's not very interesting. i think i'm going to blow the drives away. wipefs && sgdisk -Z |
| 19:27.16 | ndroftheline | oh! this is exciting. i just used dmraid to deactivate and destroy the array (https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:DMRAID) then i'm able to assemble it using mdadm. that seems super weird |
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| 19:38.06 | ndroftheline | ok so i think i've really destroyed all remnants of those arrays yay |
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| 19:39.24 | ndroftheline | followed https://kogitae.fr/mdadm-how-can-i-destroy-or-delete-an-array-memory-storage-backup-and-filesystems.htm , basically just mdadm -S /dev/md127 (the imsm container), then dd'ed 1gb to each member disk. now neither mdadm or dmraid detect any drives. i'll boot back into bios and re-create the array, then boot into the debian installer and see how things go.... |
| 19:40.31 | ndroftheline | oh, for good measure i did in fact also wipefs and sgdisk -Z the member disks too. |
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| 19:43.56 | urk | Is there anyone on here who figured out how to get the wifi working with kernel 4.19, and a Dell XPS 15 7590? Previously I was led to believe that wifi would only work with kernel 5.10 and above. |
| 19:44.35 | jmcnaught | urk: this page will show you when support was added for various Intel wifi devices: https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/users/drivers/iwlwifi |
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| 19:47.42 | jmcnaught | urk: why not just use the 5.10 kernel from buster-backports? |
| 19:49.37 | ndroftheline | so now i'm back into the installer at the partition disks page. i've chosen to use an entire disk. the first option on the list of disks to partition reads "RAID1 device #126 - 950.2 GB Software RAID Device" which is what it's shown in the past. |
| 19:50.13 | ndroftheline | dropping to busyboxy, mdadm --detail /dev/md126 indicates the array is currently doing a resync...wut |
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| 19:51.51 | ndroftheline | anybody know if a sataraid is supposed to start life by doing a resync? maybe this is the initialisation step, which mdadm automatically starts when first activating the array? |
| 19:53.33 | ndroftheline | i think i'll let it finish its initialization before proceeding with the installation... |
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| 20:29.10 | unixbsd | hello |
| 20:29.37 | unixbsd | how to start /etc/init.d/hostapd daeamon at boot of debian (systemd tech)?? |
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| 20:31.14 | somiaj | all init.d scripts should be converted to a systemd unit file. Is this a script provided by you or a debian package? |
| 20:31.30 | jmcnaught | unixbsd: a quick look at hostapd's file list shows it ships a native systemd hostapd.service, as well as an instanced hostapd@.service unit |
| 20:31.46 | greycat | There are still Debian packages using init.d files. exim4 is one. |
| 20:32.25 | somiaj | I meant systemd will convert/run init.d scripts, not that packages need to have done this. |
| 20:32.45 | jmcnaught | unixbsd: check /usr/share/doc/hostapd/README.Debian it mentions needing to unmask hostapd |
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| 20:33.43 | jmcnaught | (or using the instanced hostapd@.service unit) |
| 20:34.00 | somiaj | this is done via systemd-sysv-generator, though as jmcnaught pointed out this package provides native systemd unit files. |
| 20:34.42 | unixbsd | I guess unmask indeed is needed. |
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| 20:38.11 | unixbsd | I will make a little script to condfigure hostapd on my github |
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| 20:40.04 | somiaj | unixbsd: note, it is useful to check /usr/share/doc/packagename to see info about stuff that might need to be done after installing a package, there is often useful info there. |
| 20:40.11 | somiaj | just for future reference. |
| 20:42.42 | unixbsd | somiaj: oh yeah, I know, I needed confirmation |
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| 20:49.47 | unixbsd | all done, I have made a script to install and transfrom the debian machine into a debian router DEBIANROUTER, automatically, : https://gitlab.com/openbsd98324/pirouter |
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| 20:54.48 | urk | jmcnaught: I didn't find 5.10 to be that stable, and it crashed a couple of times after running the chmod command. |
| 20:55.28 | jmcnaught | urk: chmod can nuke a system if you are not careful. |
| 20:55.34 | urk | jmcnaught: I am going to wait until the new installer comes out, and hopefully 5.10 will be in that. For now, 4.19 seems to be pretty solid. |
| 20:55.58 | urk | jmcnaught: I was careful and it nuked it anyway. |
| 20:56.08 | somiaj | urk: The 5.10 kernel installer is already out, and there isn't going to be too many changes between now and release time. |
| 20:56.09 | jmcnaught | urk: 4.19 is solid, but it's never going to support your wifi |
| 20:56.31 | somiaj | though if you have a regression bug, might as well get details and file it to have any chance it might get fixed |
| 20:56.40 | urk | Am I correct that the new version will have kernel 5.10 in it? |
| 20:56.54 | nkuttler | ,kernels |
| 20:56.56 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.10.0-trunk-686 (5.10.2-1~exp1); sid: 5.10.0-6-686 (5.10.28-1); bullseye: 5.10.0-6-686 (5.10.28-1); buster-backports: 5.10.0-0.bpo.5-686-pae (5.10.24-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-16-686-pae (4.19.181-1); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.16-686 (4.19.181-1~deb9u1); jessie-backports: |
| 20:56.57 | judd | 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1) |
| 20:57.48 | unixbsd | i386 is stable |
| 20:58.01 | unixbsd | but amd64 is not, pae = ok |
| 20:58.28 | somiaj | urk: yes, and the rc1 installer is out and ready to use, I used it just fine on my new system (there are still some installer bugs, but I didn't run into them) |
| 20:59.21 | urk | somiaj: Yeah, I took note of the installer. I am going to wait just a few more days before using it. Maybe I am paranoid, but can't afford any more downtime at work. 4.19 is rock solid. |
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| 21:00.18 | unixbsd | so old |
| 21:01.30 | somiaj | yea, as pointed out you can't get your newer wifi to work, though always option of getting an older wifi dongle to use |
| 21:03.19 | urk | somiaj: I picked up an adapter from a local computer store, and running wifi off of that and Cat 8 cable. However, its a nuisance because the cable isn't long enough to get to my kitchen table so I ended up making a make-shift table from boxes. |
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| 21:04.33 | somiaj | here I was suggesting a wireless one, but yea that will be the concession you'll have to make if you want to stick with buster and 4.19 for a while. |
| 21:05.22 | longshot | What happened to rc.local? Is there an easy way to do something like that these days? |
| 21:05.54 | greycat | !rc.local |
| 21:05.55 | dpkg | /etc/rc.local may be used to run simple commands at boot time. It exists by default in jessie or older; in stretch or newer you need to create it. Don't forget the <shebang> and be sure to chmod 755 it. rc.local is considered a hack, a stopgap, or a temporary band-aid; see <systemd> |
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| 21:06.18 | somiaj | longshot: it is still there, though it has always been a hack, it has always been better to write a proper init file, so now a systemd unit file. |
| 21:06.27 | greycat | Support for it is still there, even if the file isn't yet. |
| 21:06.49 | petn-randall | longshot: TBH I'd make a systemd unit out of it. Much more robust than rc.local, as it won't block booting when you do something wrong. |
| 21:07.11 | somiaj | longshot: If you let us know what you need to run at startup, we maybe albe to better help point you in the right direction. |
| 21:07.47 | longshot | somiaj: It's just some debugging commands, stuff I'll throw away quickly. |
| 21:08.00 | somiaj | longshot: debuggin what? startup stuff? |
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| 21:08.22 | ndroftheline | resync complete...now i'll try to let the installer do its thing on the software raid volume... |
| 21:09.05 | ndroftheline | using defaults, with all data in one partition. |
| 21:09.22 | longshot | Yeah, but not because anything has gone wrong or anything. I'm working on a kind of appliance type system and just need to see what the state is at certain points |
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| 21:10.01 | longshot | I know rc.local runs later in boot, but it's much earlier than me being able to log in |
| 21:10.03 | somiaj | longshot: systemd has some nice tools to help you anaylize startup and its units. |
| 21:10.24 | longshot | That might be helpful as well |
| 21:10.28 | somiaj | longshot: might be worth looking into some of those tools, but either way, rc.local is there, just create it |
| 21:10.44 | dob1 | sed 's/\s+|$/|/g' file this shoud remove extra spaces before | or all the lines that ends with | right? |
| 21:10.49 | dob1 | *should |
| 21:11.39 | somiaj | longshot: systemd-analyze might be a good starting point |
| 21:12.57 | greycat | dob1: no, because \s and + are not supported by sed in its default mode. |
| 21:13.17 | greycat | well, maybe \s is, whothehellknows, it's GNU crap |
| 21:13.28 | greycat | but + is an ERE thing, not a BRE thing |
| 21:13.54 | dob1 | I have to use -E ? |
| 21:14.43 | dob1 | no |
| 21:14.56 | greycat | you literally used the word "spaces" as well, so you could simply use a space character instead of \s which is GNUperl for "more than just space" |
| 21:15.26 | greycat | sed 's/ *|$/|/' and you don't need the g either because you can never match the end of line more than once |
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| 21:19.23 | dob1 | it support * and not + ? because I tried + with space " " |
| 21:19.34 | dob1 | and it didn't work |
| 21:19.35 | greycat | Yes, that is precisely what I told you. |
| 21:19.48 | greycat | + is an ERE feature, and therefore does not work in sed's default mode |
| 21:19.56 | greycat | You don't even NEED it. |
| 21:20.16 | unixbsd | urk: this kernel for amd64 is stable as well, 4.9, all is working SD/MMC, video, X11, wifi,... touchpad: https://gitlab.com/openbsd98324/devuan-live/-/tree/master/v1/ascii/amd64/boot |
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| 21:34.25 | urk | unixbsd: How come I don't get a notification of upgrade from 4.19? I run update, and upgrade frequently, including distribution upgrade. |
| 21:35.00 | somiaj | stable doesn't get upgrades that often. |
| 21:35.05 | urk | unixbsd: The link you provided is from Duvian, and not Debian. |
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| 21:36.29 | jmcnaught | I would not go using random kernels provided by strangers. That link doesn't even provide the kernel in package form, just some loose files and no modules? |
| 21:37.36 | unixbsd | jmcnaught: stranger? check well the lab |
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| 21:50.00 | jhutchins | e,kernels |
| 21:50.06 | jhutchins | ,kernels |
| 21:50.07 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.10.0-trunk-686 (5.10.2-1~exp1); sid: 5.10.0-6-686 (5.10.28-1); bullseye: 5.10.0-6-686 (5.10.28-1); buster-backports: 5.10.0-0.bpo.5-686-pae (5.10.24-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-16-686-pae (4.19.181-1); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.16-686 (4.19.181-1~deb9u1); jessie- |
| 21:50.08 | judd | backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1) |
| 21:50.32 | jhutchins | urk: 4.19 is current. |
| 21:51.17 | urk | jhutchins: For now I am inclined to just use 4.19 until a few more bugs are removed from the new installer. 4.19 works great and is super solid even though I have no wifi support. |
| 21:51.52 | jhutchins | urk: Well, we could work on that. |
| 21:52.29 | jhutchins | We've seen a fair number of problems with the 5.10 backports. |
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| 21:53.36 | urk | I like the Dell XPS 15 7590. Its super bright, great case, great keyboard, runs Linux like a champ, but the battery could be better, and doesn't seem to be too durable. Also, the color gamut/quality could be better even though the laptop is super bright. |
| 21:53.54 | urk | too much blue light in the screen. |
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| 22:01.11 | jhutchins | I've had three lattitudes. Windows machine for work, off-warranty work system that died after a couple of years, replaced by a 6540. I'm a little disappointed that the 6540 doesn't have a camera, but it took me at least two weeks to notice. It has a DVD drive I don't need, and it's heavier and thicker than the ultrabooks, but it runs linux just fine. Only thing I can find that doesn't work is the |
| 22:01.17 | jhutchins | "disable trackpad" function key. |
| 22:04.20 | somiaj | I've been happy with my dell's, though one of them died early due to the charging plug comming loose in the laptop. |
| 22:04.54 | somiaj | the new one I got doens't seem as sturdy though, I don't like the feel of flimbsy machines |
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| 22:14.23 | riff-IRC | The Latitudes are just consumer-grade garbage nowadays. |
| 22:14.45 | riff-IRC | I have an E6520. Solid laptop built like a tank. |
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| 22:16.08 | unixbsd | my 220CS Toshiba Satellite has best keyboard ever, running older kernel, but it vim's like a rock |
| 22:16.23 | mutante | also weighs like a rock? |
| 22:17.23 | mutante | my first laptop was a satellite. forgot what model, but I couldnt believe how heavy and thick that was when I found it years later in the attic |
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| 22:20.44 | sney | they call it satellite because it has enough mass for a stable orbit |
| 22:22.48 | sney | I'll probably keep buying refurb T-series thinkpads every 6-7 years for as long as that's an option. my T430 is starting to get a little slow for real-world tasks, but that puts me right on schedule to replace it in ~2023 |
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| 22:24.33 | jhutchins | I've had three lattitudes. Windows machine for work, off-warranty work system that died after a couple of years, replaced by a 6540. I'm a little disappointed that the 6540 doesn't have a camera, but it took me at least two weeks to notice. It has a DVD drive I don't need, and it's heavier and thicker than the ultrabooks, but it runs linux just fine. Only thing I can find that doesn't work is the |
| 22:24.39 | jhutchins | "disable trackpad" function key. |
| 22:24.53 | sney | up-enter seems a little twitchy too. ;( |
| 22:25.58 | unixbsd | sney: netbsd runs very fine on those hardware conf. smaller and faster than linux with i386 |
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| 22:31.02 | urk | After the new installer makes it out of Beta I would like to explore the possibility of keeping my current kernel, and just add 5.10 Will this be possible with the new installer? |
| 22:31.56 | sney | that would be the outcome if you upgrade your existing system to bullseye |
| 22:32.07 | somiaj | I don't know what you mean by that. If you upgrade to bullseye you should use the bullseye kernel. |
| 22:32.12 | sney | if you're going to reinstall, no, the debian 11 installer will not provide a 4.19 kernel. |
| 22:32.21 | urk | Currently my viewer only allows me to download pdfs, and I am wondering if there is another viewer that would allow me to view or download? |
| 22:32.33 | somiaj | and it is out of beta, it is a relase canidate. (: |
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| 22:37.38 | unixbsd | urk: you can just strap it to your disk into a directory, remove star in /etc/shadow and copy the vmlinuz initrd and /lib/modules to the one you wanna use. boot with grub2, apt-get install debootstrap -y ; debootstrap --no-check-gpg --include=netbase,debootstrap,gcc,make,ssh,login,passwd,wpasupplicant stable . http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ |
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| 22:39.56 | urk | somiaj: Yes, I will be upgrading to Bullseye, but like to have an extra kernel on here in case something bad happens. |
| 22:40.27 | somiaj | sure, debian will keep the 4.19 kernel around after you upgrade as sney said. |
| 22:40.55 | somiaj | but if you have a bug with 5.10, you should report it (or look for others with that bug) so it can be addressed vs running an older kernel on bullseye after it is released. |
| 22:40.59 | urk | somiaj: So I don't have to do anything fancy to keep 4.19 after upgrading? |
| 22:41.08 | somiaj | it won't be removed |
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| 22:41.34 | urk | somiaj: Thats good to know. Look forward to having wifi again. Wish it was sooner than the proposed release date, but. . . . |
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| 22:42.54 | somiaj | urk: then upgrade to bullseye now, it is near ready to be released, and I would say is decent for a destkop system. |
| 22:43.05 | somiaj | or when you have time, you don't have to wait for the release. |
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| 22:45.26 | urk | I'm going to wait. |
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| 23:49.38 | tcurdt | `cat /dev/null | xargs -L1 echo foo` prints "foo" ... is this expected behaviour? I would have expected no command to be executed at all |
| 23:50.43 | tcurdt | seems the GNU version has --no-run-if-empty |
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