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| 00:17.19 | somiaj | KNERD: you should go read the DFSG, https://www.debian.org/intro/free and https://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines, any software that doesn't meet those guidelines is not part of debian main. |
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| 00:18.07 | somiaj | KNERD: debian has optional repos, contrib is free software that depends on non-free software, and non-free is software is software that debian can distribute free of charge, that doesn't meet the DFSG |
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| 00:33.43 | KNERD | somiaj: okay. thanks for the reffereneces |
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| 01:41.18 | alex11 | i'm thinking of making backups with backintime; what is the root version of the program for? is it for stuff other than /home? |
| 01:41.24 | alex11 | like /etc? |
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| 01:43.55 | alex11 | the man page seems to suggest so |
| 01:43.57 | alex11 | never mind |
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| 01:57.15 | [Kraken | gnubg package is behaving badly |
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| 01:58.22 | [Kraken | on multiple installs, ended up apt removing it |
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| 02:04.26 | somiaj | [Kraken: what version of debian do you run and how is it misbeahving? |
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| 02:11.16 | [Kraken | somiaj: 10.9 the app crashes repeatedly |
| 02:13.46 | [Kraken | maybe nvm it might be my setup |
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| 02:16.10 | somiaj | Seems to work here, but I didn't test it too deeply. I didn't notice any bug reports similar to what you describe (well I only saw one bugreport against the package) |
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| 02:23.00 | [Kraken | I think because I'm running it in 3D mode might be involved in the crashing |
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| 02:32.14 | somiaj | ahh I was just testing out console mode, didn't nkow it had a 3d mode |
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| 02:33.20 | [Kraken | also, though its multiple VMs it's one main 10.9 install, so |
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| 02:37.10 | solrize | hi i have a gigantic .7z archive with about 500,000 files inside, all in a single directory and i'm trying to extract it and the extraction gets slower and slower, i.e. i wonder if directory operations on ext4 get slower with the number of files in the dir. any idea, and is there anything i can do about this, like maybe use a different fs? |
| 02:37.30 | solrize | alternatively i can do some hacky thing like keep moving files out of the target dir while the extraction is in progress |
| 02:37.41 | solrize | the extraction has some hours to go probably :( |
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| 02:43.28 | somiaj | solrize: does it continue to slow down, or just once your cache fills up and it has to start writing the files to disk? |
| 02:44.22 | solrize | i think it keeps slowing down, the 7za extraction is cpu rather than disk limited |
| 02:44.22 | solrize | and it sped up when i moved files out of the dir |
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| 02:45.23 | solrize | i might just write a monitoring script that watches the dir and moves files out when there are more than 10,000 in it |
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| 02:49.22 | alkisg | solrize: if you have ample disk space, and you think that's specific to ext4, you could create a huge/sparse loopback.btrfs or .zfs file, mount it, and extract there |
| 02:49.51 | solrize | hmm that's an interesting idea, i might try that, i can add another (virtual) disk on this box |
| 02:50.01 | solrize | thanks |
| 02:50.05 | alkisg | np |
| 02:50.41 | alkisg | (since it's a virtual disk, you can just format it with btrfs/zfs, no need for a loopback file) |
| 02:51.47 | solrize | interesting idea. it's debian, is zfs in the distro now? |
| 02:52.11 | alkisg | No idea I haven't played with it. Isn't the userspace one available everywhere? |
| 02:52.41 | solrize | i dunno, i remember ages ago there was some issue. also is btrfs good now? for a long time it was considered a work in progress |
| 02:53.17 | alkisg | Again not sure (using ext4 everywhere :D), but I think that it's "stable enough, with minor glitches" |
| 02:53.26 | solrize | ah fair enough |
| 02:53.51 | alkisg | !zfs |
| 02:53.51 | dpkg | ZFS (originally Zettabyte File System) is a file system / logical volume manager developed by Sun Microsystems (http://deb.li/7xXU). The Debian GNU/kFreeBSD kernel since 7.2 has ZFS support, the userland utilities are packaged as zfsutils. Native Linux support from zfsonlinux.org, #zfsonlinux channel on freenode, is included in Debian starting with <stretch> and <jessie-backports> with some caveats due to license conflicts. |
| 02:53.55 | alkisg | !btrfs |
| 02:53.55 | dpkg | Btrfs (B-tree file system) is a copy on write filesystem for Linux, aimed at implementing advanced features while focusing on fault tolerance, repair and easy administration. Merged in mainline at Linux 2.6.29, utilities are packaged in btrfs-tools. http://wiki.debian.org/Btrfs http://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/ #btrfs on irc.freenode.net. See also <btrfs gotchas>. |
| 02:54.01 | alkisg | Let's read the bot's wisdom... :) |
| 02:54.22 | solrize | well that's knowledge, but it's not exactly wisdom ;) |
| 02:54.31 | alkisg | Hehe |
| 02:58.37 | earendel | advancing. back to sea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC_mV1IpjWA |
| 03:00.53 | earendel | you know the universe expanded from some origin at a point to the size of an orange, at the _same_scale_ as from the size of the origin, to the observable size now? |
| 03:02.26 | earendel | when i realized. i thought we might really journey more into the micocosmos (if not via astral chakras:p) .. i mean. all that adventure on that carpet! |
| 03:03.35 | earendel | im sorry the same scale as from orange* to size now. oof. |
| 03:03.54 | earendel | no wonder u dont dig it. :v |
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| 03:13.39 | solrize | weirdly the 7za extractor stopped printing diagnostics after 275k files, about 61%, but it is still extracting away |
| 03:14.29 | solrize | and now it has stopped altogether :( |
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| 03:27.53 | alkisg | solrize: in another case where the fs was too strained, I found that running this command in another terminal tab worked around the issue: |
| 03:27.53 | alkisg | while sleep 1m; do sync; echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches; done |
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| 03:43.38 | solrize | alkisg, hmm, wonder what that does |
| 03:43.53 | solrize | this was a 16gb server not doing anything very memory intensive |
| 03:44.06 | solrize | it was mostly cpu bound |
| 03:44.20 | warsoul | https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.quora.com%2FWhat-is-your-cool-Linux-desktop-environment-setup&psig=AOvVaw3qCReWf4bzAQX9lLdJg-4j&ust=1620963635515000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCOiayqXexfACFQAAAAAdAAAAABAJ |
| 03:44.22 | solrize | writing maybe 1GB a minute to the disk which is an SSD |
| 03:44.26 | warsoul | how i add this to my terminal |
| 03:44.27 | warsoul | ? |
| 03:45.31 | solrize | i've shut off the server for now, am going to resize to a smaller VM and a bigger disk since i don't feel like paying for a 4 core vm and using just 1 core ;) |
| 03:48.33 | warsoul | https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/700489/whats-your-linux-desktop-look-like/page-5 |
| 03:48.42 | warsoul | or something like this |
| 03:48.46 | warsoul | system info in desktop |
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| 03:52.01 | alkisg | solrize: it empties the kernel disk cache; which means it doesn't lose any data at all, it's safe; I've seen that in some cases, when the kernel disk cache has many many entries, it can cause disk access to become 100 times slower than it should |
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| 03:53.07 | alkisg | solrize: example: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=196157 - this isn't directly related to your use case, but I'm afraid that the underlying cause might be the same |
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| 04:25.47 | MrHatter123 | I just ran grub-install /dev/sda and grub-install /dev/sdb on an mdadm RAID1 , but didn't run update-grub aftwards, now I can't boot off either drive, what is my quckest way to repair ? |
| 04:26.11 | somiaj | !fixmbr |
| 04:26.11 | dpkg | To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>. |
| 04:26.29 | somiaj | MrHatter123: do you ahev access to a live image or debian install image, that would be the easiest if you do. |
| 04:28.51 | MrHatter123 | somiaj, yes, thx, I will try this off a knoppix disk |
| 04:29.24 | MrHatter123 | can i do this from a debian installer ? |
| 04:35.35 | MrHatter123 | I am reading that I can boot into rescue mode from the debian installer and reinstall grub there ? |
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| 04:56.37 | MrHatter123 | I was succesful using the debian installer in rescue mode. I didn't need to make a chroot environment. |
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| 05:12.44 | somiaj | MrHatter123: you can do it from anything you can boot a linux kernel form, the debian installer's rescue mode autmoates a bit of the setup (mounting the filesystems and chrooting). |
| 05:13.11 | somiaj | MrHatter123: so yea, the knoppix would have worked, some people like grml as it provides a nice resuce disk for things |
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| 05:18.09 | unixbsd | there is a bug in live-boot, debian cannot mount a UFS2 once initrd image launched. the ufs2 mount is looking for a modules, but live-boot hasnt it into the modules. Please fix the bug, kindly. |
| 05:21.13 | somiaj | see if sucha bug ahs been filed, if not file one yourself on the bts |
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| 05:31.07 | solrize | alkisg, hmm thanks |
| 05:31.36 | solrize | i have this hacky file shuffling script working so i'm gonna just let it run and it will split out the files into 50 or so directories of 10,000 files each |
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| 05:31.56 | solrize | i copied one of them over to a tmpfs on a 32gb machine and that handled the big dir a lot easier |
| 05:32.24 | solrize | i made an xz tarball which gave almost no compression, but 7zip compressed to about half the original size, no idea what's going on with that |
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| 05:38.31 | alkisg | solrize: if you're going to recompress it, you could use squashfs as it's directly mountable |
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| 06:00.04 | Aurora_v_kosmose | How would I debug a program which lacks a -dbg package? |
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| 06:03.22 | nkuttler | Aurora_v_kosmose: can it be built with debug symbols? |
| 06:03.38 | nkuttler | !package recompile |
| 06:03.38 | dpkg | 1) Add a <deb-src> line for your current release to your sources.list 2) apt update; apt install build-essential devscripts fakeroot; apt build-dep packagename 3) as any user, apt-get source packagename 4) cd packagename-version/; ask me about <debian/rules>; 5) dpkg-buildpackage -uc -us 6) as root, apt install ../packagename-version.deb. Ask me about <debian/rules>, <nocheck>, <nostrip>, <apt-get source>. |
| 06:04.06 | Aurora_v_kosmose | nkuttler: It's plain C, so I'd assume it can. |
| 06:05.50 | Aurora_v_kosmose | I'll try that a bit later, sounds like it'll take longer than I can allocate just now. |
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| 06:13.14 | jelly | Aurora_v_kosmose, if it comes from debian.org repo |
| 06:13.19 | jelly | !dbgsym |
| 06:13.19 | dpkg | Packages that end in '*-dbgsym' contain the symbols required for debugging executables and libraries. The dbgsym packages are automatically generated packages that are in a separate archive; add a line like "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-debug/ buster-debug main" to your sources.list. See also https://wiki.debian.org/HowToGetABacktrace |
| 06:13.53 | jelly | ^ those autogenerated -dgbsym are replacing -dbg packages, and are in a separate repo now |
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| 06:15.38 | Aurora_v_kosmose | Oh nice, thanks. That sounds like it'll do just great. |
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| 06:28.02 | solrize | alkisg, squashfs lets you mount a 7zip archive? interesting |
| 06:28.41 | solrize | i'm after the high compression mostly for archiving and distribution purposes.... if someone downloads it they can unpack into some more convenient form |
| 06:28.49 | solrize | i split it out to about 50 tarballs of 2GB or so each |
| 06:28.54 | solrize | with 10000 files in each one |
| 06:28.55 | alkisg | solrize: no, I thought you were recompressing the 7z to xz, and I proposed .squashfs instead, which you can loop-mount as it's a file system, not just an archive |
| 06:29.19 | solrize | i guess i should read about that |
| 06:29.35 | alkisg | mount -o loop,ro 10gb-archive.squashfs /mnt ==> mounts it |
| 06:29.45 | Aurora_v_kosmose | Don't 7z & xz containers use the same compression? |
| 06:30.19 | solrize | Aurora_v_kosmose, i would have thought so, but 7z seems to compress a lot more. maybe i made some error. i'll mess with it some more in the coming days |
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| 06:30.33 | Aurora_v_kosmose | Ah, might be an lzma vs lzma2 thing |
| 06:30.44 | solrize | hmm not sure |
| 06:31.14 | Aurora_v_kosmose | Huh. Seemingly not. Both seem to implement it. Curious. |
| 06:31.19 | solrize | 7za also uses multiple threads so it's faster if you're only making one archive at a time |
| 06:32.04 | solrize | but once i get all this stuff in one place i'll just do a bunch of separate archives in parallel |
| 06:33.13 | solrize | any idea how tmpfs works? i.e. is it a regular disk-like fs on a ramdisk? or is it more of an in-memory structure, and particularly does it use hashing or whatever |
| 06:34.57 | Aurora_v_kosmose | tmpfs usually has a set size. |
| 06:35.02 | solrize | 7z is compressing a lot better than zip |
| 06:35.12 | Aurora_v_kosmose | Its a ramdisk afaik |
| 06:35.27 | solrize | yeah it's a ramdisk but can grow to the size of memory, spill into swap etc |
| 06:35.59 | solrize | in this case i have a 32gb machine and the individual archives are 2gb each so tmpfs holds them nicely if i only work on a few at a time |
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| 06:36.18 | Aurora_v_kosmose | ramfs vs tmpfs |
| 06:36.28 | Aurora_v_kosmose | I think one used a set size. |
| 06:36.29 | solrize | yeah ramfs is fixed size and locked into memory |
| 06:36.43 | solrize | i think tmpfs may be newer and usually preferable these days |
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| 06:37.13 | Aurora_v_kosmose | I'm reading the opposite. ramfs not being fixed and tmpfs being fixable at will. |
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| 06:55.21 | solrize | hmm i thought it was the other way around |
| 06:55.42 | solrize | one of them is actually locked in ram so can hose your machine if you overfill it |
| 06:55.45 | solrize | the other one can swap |
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| 07:32.50 | unixbsd | hey guys I tried initrd with ufs.ko, all is nicely working to support ufs2. But... please fix that bug into live-boot. Live boot cannot in init premount mount the ufs filesystem. please fix it ... I need tto boott my live from netbsd. |
| 07:33.20 | ratrace | unixbsd: ufs is barely if at all supported on linux. don't get surprised if you find corrupt data |
| 07:33.41 | ratrace | as for the initramfs-tools support, patches welcome. |
| 07:33.54 | unixbsd | I am tired to path |
| 07:34.00 | unixbsd | }c |
| 07:34.25 | solrize | any idea whether xfs has some fast directory structure like zfs? ffs is a built-in option for hetzner volumes |
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| 07:34.40 | ratrace | then no ufs for you. also, really, it's barely supported in read-only mode, you WILL have issues if you try to write |
| 07:35.00 | ratrace | solrize: "fast"? |
| 07:35.02 | unixbsd | i dont need to write |
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| 07:35.17 | unixbsd | I just need to boot mz filesystem.squashfs from usf |
| 07:35.19 | unixbsd | ufs |
| 07:35.35 | ratrace | unixbsd: certainly you do. otherwise you won't be able to login and do other things without extensively modifying your os |
| 07:35.51 | unixbsd | i run in ram |
| 07:36.18 | unixbsd | you know: live-boot |
| 07:36.21 | ratrace | the medium is irrelevant. many default operations require writable rootfs. so you either have a broken system or you have to extensively modify that |
| 07:36.33 | unixbsd | you dont understand |
| 07:37.02 | ratrace | sounds like you're desperately trying to turn debian into freebsd. so why not just run freebsd. it has linuxulator, you can run linux only programs, in most cases. |
| 07:37.11 | unixbsd | I talk about a custom live |
| 07:37.25 | ratrace | unixbsd: well whatever. your question has been asnwered. no ufs. |
| 07:37.39 | unixbsd | of course, there is ufs |
| 07:37.54 | unixbsd | the bug fix is to be made into live-boot |
| 07:37.56 | ratrace | yes, there exists the kernel module. there does not exist userland support you'd expect. |
| 07:38.11 | unixbsd | the kernel module is fine. |
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| 07:38.29 | ratrace | unixbsd: ALSO ... intramfs-tools is a collection of scripts that are designed to be extended easily. |
| 07:38.30 | frojnd | Hi there. |
| 07:38.30 | unixbsd | it comes from premount /mount of the live-boot |
| 07:38.38 | frojnd | I keep seeing these on my vps: kernel:[173637.437338] watchdog: BUG: soft lockup - CPU#1 stuck for 22s! [VM Thread:2207] |
| 07:38.50 | ratrace | unixbsd: nothing prevents you from adding an init-top script to mount your ufs |
| 07:39.06 | unixbsd | that would mean that I have to fix the code of live-boot debian. come on. I havent energy for tthat. |
| 07:39.08 | frojnd | I searched a bit but all suggestions were to upgrade the kernel... I did apt update && apt upgrade but to no good |
| 07:39.17 | ratrace | unixbsd: okay, I can do it for you. |
| 07:39.30 | unixbsd | serious? |
| 07:39.31 | ratrace | unixbsd: Sure. 5000⬠, payable up front. |
| 07:39.35 | frojnd | Any ideas why I keep getting these messages? |
| 07:39.55 | unixbsd | you go into the scripts /scripts/ premount and check where ufs is not selected. |
| 07:39.58 | ratrace | unixbsd: I'm not kidding. you seem to be demanding things people do for free. that won't happen. |
| 07:40.17 | unixbsd | likely you just have to add the ufs into the module toram. it is simple, very simple, but needs time. |
| 07:40.42 | ratrace | unixbsd: AND autodetection part. initramfs has several steps into which you can hook to make rootfs available |
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| 07:40.55 | ratrace | initramfs-tools scripts, specifically. |
| 07:41.18 | unixbsd | i talk about bootfrom=/dev/sda1 of course. so no autodetect. |
| 07:41.31 | ratrace | unixbsd: also, dracut is packaged. I don't know all the things it supports. check if _that_ can moount your ufs rootfs |
| 07:42.15 | ratrace | frojnd: could be any reason. you can upgrade buster's 4.19 to buster backport's 5.10 |
| 07:42.18 | unixbsd | you mean from /dev/sda1 *ufs to my filesystem.squashfs ... more precisely. |
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| 07:43.34 | frojnd | ratrace: I am not familiar with code names or what comes after them like backport? Is backport just more up to date? |
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| 07:44.32 | ratrace | frojnd: backports is packages from testing made available for stable. or more precisely from debian-next to debian-stable. then from debian-stable to debian-oldstable (stretch-backports) |
| 07:44.56 | ratrace | frojnd: in case of Buster (Stable) you can have the 5.10 kernel, if that fixes your problem, if you install it from buster-backports repo. |
| 07:45.03 | unixbsd | just recompile, you need bison and bc, vanilla kernel is power and useful. |
| 07:45.10 | ratrace | no, don't do that |
| 07:45.31 | frojnd | ratrace: I would only install new kernel if it won't mess with my current stuff |
| 07:45.40 | ratrace | you should compile your kernel if, and only if: a) you know how to, b) you know WHY you have to |
| 07:45.42 | frojnd | Or is better to just switch to backport |
| 07:46.11 | frojnd | ratrace: no I don't know. Because I don't know if this will solve the dreaded messages I'm seeing |
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| 07:46.30 | ratrace | frojnd: afaik there was an issue with ZFS not supporting 5.10 but zfs from backports is 2.x.x now so if you use ZFS you can have the support. If you use nvidia, that might also requrie a bump to backports, but you should be running nvidia from backports anyway, if you use nvidia proprietary |
| 07:46.30 | frojnd | But thank you for suggestions on how to upgrade kernel |
| 07:46.47 | frojnd | I have amd cpu |
| 07:46.51 | frojnd | And I don't have GPU |
| 07:46.53 | ratrace | frojnd: that was to mean do NOT compile the kernel if you don't know how or why. you can easily just install 5.10 from backports |
| 07:47.19 | ratrace | frojnd: any other DKMS driver that would require a check for 5.10 compatibility? |
| 07:47.56 | unixbsd | for FILESYSTEM in squashfs ext2 ext3 ext4 xfs jffs2 dir |
| 07:47.56 | frojnd | ratrace: no I don't think so |
| 07:48.01 | unixbsd | ok I got the bug |
| 07:48.10 | unixbsd | I will fix it myself man |
| 07:48.17 | unixbsd | man, debian needs really my help |
| 07:48.32 | ratrace | unixbsd: that's awesome! don't forget to file a bug report with your fixes attached. |
| 07:48.40 | shtrb | unixbsd, it's time for you to push over salsa |
| 07:48.44 | unixbsd | noooooooooooooooooooooooo i am not paid |
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| 07:49.00 | frojnd | ratrace: so I enable backports repository update and install 5.10 or it will install automatically after enabling backports repository? |
| 07:49.08 | ratrace | frojnd: then it should be safe to upgrade the kernel. you can always revert, mind you. assuming that's a local system you have access to the grub menu and can select previous kernel if things break. |
| 07:49.14 | shtrb | frojnd, you need to manually install what you like |
| 07:49.37 | frojnd | ratrace: no that's a VPS somewhere far far away |
| 07:49.39 | shtrb | frojnd, before installing make sure your boot have enough disk space |
| 07:49.48 | ratrace | frojnd: after enabling the backports repo you need to use -t for apt, and for _install_ only. do not use -t for upgrade! unless you know you want to upgrade ALL the packages. |
| 07:50.01 | ratrace | frojnd: so in this case apt install -t buster-backports linux-image-amd64 |
| 07:50.30 | ratrace | frojnd: ah yes, VPS ... but it has virtual console so you should have access to grub? |
| 07:50.39 | frojnd | ratrace: yeah I believe so |
| 07:50.54 | shtrb | ratrace, why not to even setup a apt preferences to prevent auto select from newer packages ? |
| 07:51.19 | ratrace | shtrb: that won't happen |
| 07:51.48 | shtrb | ratrace, I was under the impression that a package would be selected if it has higher version number ... |
| 07:51.50 | ratrace | `apt upgrade` wihtout forcing -t buster-backports will not upgrade existing packages to their versions from backports |
| 07:52.47 | ratrace | `apt upgrade` will continue to upgrade packages installed from backports with newer versions from backports, without using -t buster-backports |
| 07:53.02 | frojnd | Ok so 1) Add backports repo 2) run apt install -t buster-backports linux-image-amd64 3) then how to normally upgrade whole system without backports |
| 07:53.10 | ratrace | just `apt upgrade` |
| 07:53.13 | frojnd | Ok |
| 07:53.29 | ratrace | frojnd: it WILL upgrade that kernel from backports, when a new one arrives to backports |
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| 07:55.01 | ratrace | unixbsd: that's awesome, really. you demand we do free work for you and you're not willing to contribute the free work you did, for someone else who might need that feature. you win ten internets, and two RMS awards. |
| 07:55.29 | ratrace | but no harm really. I think you're maybe the only user on the planet who wants ufs in initramfs for a debian live system :) |
| 07:57.16 | oxek | huh? initramfs has a filesystem in it? |
| 07:57.49 | ratrace | oxek: well yes, it has kernel modules and userland support for each filesystem mountable as rootfs |
| 07:58.14 | oxek | I think I expressed myself wrong |
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| 07:58.39 | frojnd | Did I correctly add repo to the /etc/apt/sources.list ? https://termbin.com/1c89 |
| 07:58.52 | oxek | yes, initramfs contains support for mounting other filesystems, but does it have a filesystem itself? I thought it's just a bunch of files concatenated. |
| 07:58.59 | oxek | or something as simple as that |
| 07:59.29 | ratrace | frojnd: you already have it enabled it seems, third deb line from the top |
| 07:59.35 | frojnd | After running update I get warnings: https://termbin.com/zqx5 |
| 07:59.57 | ratrace | frojnd: right because you already had it enabled |
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| 08:00.07 | frojnd | ratrace: Oh hm |
| 08:00.17 | frojnd | Ok then I will just install it from backports |
| 08:00.27 | ratrace | oxek: initramfs is a cpio archive, yes, that the kernel then unpacks in RAM, tmpfs I think |
| 08:00.46 | ratrace | frojnd: make sure you remove that extra sources line you added at teh bottom and re-run apt update |
| 08:01.15 | frojnd | OK done,.. let me reboot and see |
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| 08:03.12 | frojnd | Ok all good |
| 08:03.22 | frojnd | ... for now |
| 08:05.11 | ratrace | frojnd: if it happens again, then my bet would be on the host being overwhelmed and not being able to give sufficient time slices to the guest kernel |
| 08:06.12 | ratrace | frojnd: you can also see this via "steal" time in top . and if you have some kind of server monitoring ala munin or zabbix, it probably picks up that statistic as well |
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| 08:14.40 | Trieste | Hi, I have this weird issue where when my system boots up, my apps (in docker) claim that they can't connect to postgres ("connection refused"), but it's enough just to `systemctl restart postgresql`. Any idea why could that be? What could change by a simple restart? Or is this more of a #postgresql question? |
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| 08:19.51 | ratrace | Trieste: that could mean postgres isn't running at all, until you issue restart that kicks it in . check the logs |
| 08:24.13 | Trieste | humm, well it said "active (exited)", but it does so now as well... And there is a "Started PostgreSQL RDBMS." line around 6am today, *but* a line that says "postgresql.service: Succeeded." only appears around 10:12 when I issued the restart, which is confusing |
| 08:24.35 | Trieste | https://paste.debian.net/1197420/ |
| 08:25.22 | Trieste | ^ journalctl -u postgresql |
| 08:26.10 | ratrace | Trieste: postgresql.service is just a dependency "meta" service. look up postgresql@11-main.service and related journal entries |
| 08:26.10 | Trieste | and postgresql's own logs don't seem to indicate anything off either https://paste.debian.net/1197421/ |
| 08:26.18 | Trieste | ah I see |
| 08:27.07 | Trieste | well they don't look particularly telling either :( https://paste.debian.net/1197422/ |
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| 08:28.06 | Trieste | oh wait, I'm dumb, the postgresql logs *are* off |
| 08:28.34 | ratrace | Trieste: actually those logs are a bit telling |
| 08:29.02 | Trieste | yup it is :) I think I know enough now, thanks for the nudge |
| 08:29.07 | ratrace | after the events of 06hr CEST, you have a shutdown request at 10:12, meaning the server WAS active, and I assume that's teh "restart" you issued then? |
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| 08:29.42 | ratrace | but look at the events of 06hr, it's struggling to listen on localhost .... that's dumb docker. terrible piece of softwrae. who knows what else it breaks and borks |
| 08:29.55 | Trieste | yep, but more importantly there's a "could not bind IPv4 address "172.17.0.1": Cannot assign requested address" - I assume because postgresql starts sooner than the network initializes |
| 08:30.05 | ratrace | and you have a WAL redo! that's... just.... wow :) I'd burn all that with nuclear fire. |
| 08:30.13 | Trieste | docker is dumb :( |
| 08:30.20 | Trieste | err, what's a WAL redo? |
| 08:30.30 | ratrace | Trieste: yes, sooner than the namespaces makes 127.0.0.1 available |
| 08:30.32 | Trieste | and why should I be worried |
| 08:30.56 | ratrace | Trieste: Write Ahead Log. lines 20-22. it means postgres detected corruption and is replying logs last found in the WAL |
| 08:31.04 | Trieste | ratrace, *172.0.0.1 |
| 08:31.15 | ratrace | this happens when it's shut down abruptly, ungracefully, mid transaction, ala power-loss or other such events |
| 08:31.25 | ratrace | Trieste: oooh yeah, 172! |
| 08:31.34 | Trieste | ratrace, oh I see, well that's to be expected unfortunately, the system was killed by my VPS provider who had an outage |
| 08:32.37 | Trieste | well one last thing, do postgresql logs like that just not go into journald (by default?) or am I looking in the wrong place again |
| 08:33.04 | ratrace | Trieste: so anyway, seems like that 172... address was not found and bound to. but it is for the 10hr CEST restart |
| 08:33.30 | ratrace | I am assuming that your original issue, "connection refused" used that (172) subnet? |
| 08:33.41 | Trieste | exactly |
| 08:34.08 | ratrace | Trieste: by default on Debian, postgres is configured for a log in /var/log/postgresql/postgresql-<cluster version>.log |
| 08:34.16 | ratrace | "11-main" is the cluster version by default on debian |
| 08:34.22 | ratrace | on *buster |
| 08:35.02 | ratrace | Trieste: but the journal will have issues pertaining to (re)starting the service itself, so it's really two logs that are of interest |
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| 08:38.07 | Trieste | alright, thanks a lot! |
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| 13:52.50 | patanga | does dpkg-reconfigure console-setup not change the font size without reboot? |
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| 13:55.25 | somiaj | I think you need a reboot, though maybe just restartting getty would work (never tried) |
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| 14:10.20 | fakuve | Hi anyone in here succesfull with `nodejs` ? |
| 14:10.46 | fakuve | The version of the Debian Buster stable repositories is super-outdated# |
| 14:10.55 | epsilon | that OS? |
| 14:11.04 | fakuve | and I found myself having to install `nvm` |
| 14:11.10 | fakuve | and install through there |
| 14:11.47 | epsilon | if you mean it, just install the original version |
| 14:13.46 | ratrace | ,v nodejs |
| 14:13.47 | judd | Package: nodejs on amd64 -- jessie: 0.10.29~dfsg-2; stretch: 4.8.2~dfsg-1; stretch-backports: 8.11.1~dfsg-2~bpo9+1; buster: 10.24.0~dfsg-1~deb10u1; buster-security: 10.24.0~dfsg-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 12.21.0~dfsg-4; sid: 12.21.0~dfsg-4; experimental: 14.16.1~dfsg-1 |
| 14:14.50 | ratrace | if something's outdated based on a _number_ in version, doesn't mean a thing. if your agile (cr)app is updating every 12 hours, bumping versions, you'll get pretty far between two debian releases |
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| 14:14.57 | fakuve | there is v16.1.0 out there |
| 14:15.02 | epsilon | nodejs 14.17 is LTS and 16.x is current, so... |
| 14:15.07 | j5v1 | how do i change my dns settings using network manager? |
| 14:15.09 | ratrace | question is really how much new functions or backwards incompatibilities exist now between nodejs in stable and sid |
| 14:15.17 | fakuve | and Buster is on 10.24.0 |
| 14:15.26 | j5v1 | it looks like my resolv.conf was autogenerated by network manager, but dont know how to change it |
| 14:16.00 | ratrace | j5v1: edit the connection settings, there should be a tab where you can manually set DNS servers for the connection |
| 14:16.16 | ratrace | like, (right) click the active connection, and edit it and find the DNS tab or whatwasit |
| 14:16.16 | patanga | somiaj: thanks for the idea to restart getty. have to try, sounds interesting |
| 14:18.08 | fakuve | Debian doesnt use /usr/bin/env , does it? |
| 14:18.36 | somiaj | fakuve: what do you mean by use it? |
| 14:18.39 | oxek | fakuve: what do you mean? |
| 14:18.42 | j5v1 | ratrace, i dont see a dns tab |
| 14:19.01 | mtn | j5v1: do you see an ipv4 tab? |
| 14:19.07 | fakuve | I got a massive problem that is breaking me |
| 14:19.08 | greycat | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 48480 Sep 24 2020 /usr/bin/env |
| 14:19.36 | fakuve | when I use `npm install` it does `/usr/bin/env: ânodeâ: No such file or directory` |
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| 14:19.47 | j5v1 | mtn, yes I see the ipv4 tab |
| 14:19.54 | fakuve | I go an check , I cannot do a symbolic link to there |
| 14:19.55 | mtn | j5v1: change your dns there |
| 14:20.03 | ratrace | j5v1: eh... gnome removed that too it seems.... they keep removing useful functions from release to release. pretty soon all that'll remain is the "Activities" button and nothing else. |
| 14:20.04 | greycat | well, if you don't have a program called 'node' in your PATH, then that is what will happen. |
| 14:20.42 | oxek | the activities button will be removed as well |
| 14:20.49 | fakuve | sudo ln -s /home/fakuve/.nvm/versions/node/v16.1.0/bin/node /usr/bin/env/node |
| 14:20.57 | fakuve | ln: failed to create symbolic link '/usr/bin/env/node': Not a directory |
| 14:20.58 | oxek | fakuve: no |
| 14:21.03 | greycat | for god's sake, what |
| 14:21.10 | oxek | indeed |
| 14:21.14 | greycat | /usr/bin/env is NOT A DIRECTORY |
| 14:21.23 | fakuve | so why is trying to |
| 14:21.32 | greycat | why did you think it is... oh wait, Javascript "developer". carry on :-( |
| 14:21.36 | j5v1 | mtn, i added the IP of the dns server but its not working |
| 14:21.48 | j5v1 | im trying to use dns over tls if that makes a difference |
| 14:22.11 | greycat | someone want to tell a javascript "developer" how unix works, or do I have to? |
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| 14:22.15 | fakuve | so why ? /usr/bin/env: ânodeâ: No such file or directory |
| 14:22.20 | ratrace | j5v1: DNS over TLS or DNS over HTTPS (which implies TLS)? |
| 14:22.24 | ratrace | ie DOT or DOH? |
| 14:22.25 | greycat | BECAUSE YOU DONT HAVE NODE |
| 14:22.30 | greycat | SO GO GET NODE |
| 14:22.33 | fakuve | I do have it |
| 14:22.38 | greycat | Prove it! |
| 14:22.40 | j5v1 | fakuve, did you install it? "sudo apt-get install -y nodejs" |
| 14:22.44 | greycat | What does "type node" say? |
| 14:22.47 | fakuve | noo |
| 14:22.52 | imMute | fakuve: you have node in a place that /usr/bin/env can't find then. |
| 14:22.54 | j5v1 | and then "sudo apt-get install -y npm" |
| 14:23.01 | fakuve | Debian repositories have a rusty version of nodejs |
| 14:23.04 | ratrace | apt install nodejs. anything else is not supported in #debian. thank you for playing. |
| 14:23.04 | apt | okay, ratrace |
| 14:23.06 | fakuve | v10.24.0 |
| 14:23.07 | greycat | So install the upstream one. |
| 14:23.15 | fakuve | vs 16.1.0 that there is now |
| 14:23.21 | imMute | j5v1: as far as I know libc DNS (whic uses /etc/resolv.conf) cannot use DNS over TLS/HTTPS |
| 14:23.24 | j5v1 | fakuve, 10 and 16 are virtually the same |
| 14:23.38 | j5v1 | node, like firefox, bloats their version number since there is nothing left to do |
| 14:23.42 | ratrace | imMute: correct, but the question is what "TLS" means here. DOT or DOH |
| 14:23.53 | fakuve | meeh |
| 14:23.54 | imMute | ratrace: does it matter if libc DNS can't use either of them? |
| 14:24.00 | j5v1 | you can also download the most recent binary from the site |
| 14:24.13 | ratrace | imMute: it matters if the users wants DoT or DoH and then correct resolver can be confiugred. |
| 14:24.14 | j5v1 | and update your PATH to the directory with the binary in it |
| 14:24.21 | fakuve | Nothing usefull yet , so basically I should get the unestable repositories (I should set them) |
| 14:24.29 | fakuve | just to install nodejs ? |
| 14:24.36 | imMute | ratrace: true, but then you're into far more than configuring /etc/resolv.conf at that point |
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| 14:24.42 | ratrace | imMute: sure. |
| 14:24.54 | somiaj | fakuve: no, do not install packages from unstable in stable, this is asking for trouble. |
| 14:24.55 | ratrace | fakuve: other than "X > Y" why do you want the newer nodejs? |
| 14:25.00 | j5v1 | imMute, what should i do to use DOT then? can systemd do it? |
| 14:25.07 | ratrace | any critical bug resolved? new functionality needed? |
| 14:25.10 | imMute | j5v1: no idea. |
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| 14:25.21 | oxek | j5v1: why not just use dnscrypt-proxy and be done with all this nonsense? |
| 14:25.28 | fakuve | ratrace: cause I'm using some software that is actually not running properly |
| 14:25.36 | ratrace | j5v1: yes, somewhat. ask googls for details |
| 14:25.43 | fakuve | I need the last version, don't know why Debian is outdated about that |
| 14:25.56 | j5v1 | oxek, im fine doing that as well, just dont know how to set that up |
| 14:26.04 | greycat | !sns |
| 14:26.04 | dpkg | Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>. |
| 14:26.05 | ratrace | fakuve: what specifically from the latest version? I ask because some users often think they need "latest" but they don't really. |
| 14:26.07 | greycat | *plonk* |
| 14:26.12 | oxek | j5v1: the github repo has all the info you need |
| 14:26.20 | ratrace | except, of course, because newer is shinier :) |
| 14:26.24 | j5v1 | fakuve, debian is inteneded to be stable. to get the latest version you need to binary the binary from their site |
| 14:26.37 | j5v1 | go to the nodejs site and they have precompiled binaries |
| 14:26.42 | imMute | fakuve: if you want the latest software all the time, then Debian might not be your best bet... |
| 14:27.03 | ratrace | fakuve: so my question here is, if you're 100% certain that a newer version contains something you really need, then the effort is justified. otehrwise it is not and you're jumping through hoops unnecessarily |
| 14:27.05 | fakuve | Well I love Debian so far didn't have any problem with packages |
| 14:27.12 | fakuve | appart of ZFS , and now this |
| 14:27.38 | fakuve | people use a tool called `nvm` which deploys the last version of `nodejs` |
| 14:27.57 | oxek | fakuve: so use `nvm` |
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| 14:28.03 | fakuve | but this sort of installation is a bit buggy as I see with the PATH's and all this stuff |
| 14:28.17 | j5v1 | fakuve, its not buggy at all |
| 14:28.19 | oxek | you didn't follow the upstream install instructions |
| 14:28.30 | fakuve | oxek: I did install that , but now anytime I'm using `npm` I get `/usr/bin/env: ânodeâ: No such file or directory` |
| 14:28.32 | j5v1 | windows, mac, and linux all add things to the path |
| 14:28.48 | imMute | fakuve: /home/fakuve/.nvm/versions/node/v16.1.0/bin/ not being in your PATH by default is *not* buggy. |
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| 14:29.19 | greycat | This is why one makes a symlink from $HOME/bin/node to $HOME/crazy/path/node and gets done with it. |
| 14:29.26 | fakuve | imMute: I just need to create a symlink innit? |
| 14:29.41 | imMute | fakuve: or add that path to your PATH. |
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| 14:29.53 | fakuve | ok |
| 14:29.57 | j5v1 | fakuve, just use windows if you dont want to do things the unix way, theres nothing wrong with doing development on windows if its easier for you to set up. node is cross platform |
| 14:29.57 | greycat | I wouldn't go down that road, personally. |
| 14:29.59 | imMute | fakuve: but you can't make /usr/bin/env/node a symlink because /usr/bin/env already exists, but as a file, not a directory |
| 14:30.15 | j5v1 | same with most of the node development tools (such as vscode) |
| 14:30.27 | fakuve | j5v1: are u a C guru? |
| 14:30.33 | greycat | imMute: the bigger issue here is he clearly has NO CLUE WHATSOEVER how unix scripts and shebangs work, which is just mortifying in a developer |
| 14:30.35 | ratrace | env just returns stuff from PATH anyway so.... |
| 14:30.48 | j5v1 | you dont need C for this |
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| 14:31.00 | fakuve | j5v1: you are taking the piss bro |
| 14:31.04 | imMute | greycat: eh, developers can get a lot done without touching that stuff. I'm more concerned about the refusal to learn. |
| 14:31.12 | fakuve | j5v1: Dont talk to me like that ok? |
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| 14:31.23 | j5v1 | what? |
| 14:31.33 | fakuve | why you sending me to Windows? |
| 14:31.36 | fakuve | and VS Code? |
| 14:31.45 | fakuve | just for using node? |
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| 14:32.02 | greycat | imMute: well, they came in here, gave the error message, I told 'em it means they don't have node in their PATH, and ... that should have been all they needed to hear. It wasn't, apparently. |
| 14:32.20 | j5v1 | if you just want to develope node programs, and dont want to set up the path variables or deal with juggling multiple versions and path variables, you can use mac or windows |
| 14:32.34 | fakuve | j5v1: Dont talk to me like that |
| 14:32.41 | ratrace | or debian and `apt install` it once and for all |
| 14:32.46 | greycat | But instead of heeding what they were told, they somehow COMPLETELY twisted the message around in their head, didn't LOOK at the file system or anyuthing, and just ASSUMED it meant they were supposed to have a file named /usr/bin/env/node which makes NO sense at all |
| 14:32.50 | fakuve | j5v1: if you are not ready to be in a freenode channel support then /exit |
| 14:32.51 | greycat | So god damned frustrating. |
| 14:33.13 | imMute | greycat: I agree - that's the refusal to learn part I referenced. |
| 14:33.37 | j5v1 | it is good support advice though, you should choose whichever tech gets the job done most easily |
| 14:33.53 | ratrace | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:33.54 | j5v1 | you dont have to use linux to program in node |
| 14:34.02 | j5v1 | its cross platform |
| 14:34.17 | jelly | fakuve, if you install stuff using npm, you're outside the OS packaging system; setting up PATH and other environment may have to be different from packaged stuff and possibly manual |
| 14:34.30 | j5v1 | if youre building web apps, in some ways youre better off doing this on windows or mac |
| 14:34.39 | ratrace | j5v1: the what |
| 14:34.44 | j5v1 | since youll want to test using the lastest versions of chrome on those platforms |
| 14:34.45 | fakuve | j5v1: shut the fuck up man |
| 14:34.53 | fakuve | you are talking shit |
| 14:35.06 | jelly | fakuve, mind the language tho, and focus on the technical issue |
| 14:35.17 | fakuve | jelly: well this guy is attacking me |
| 14:35.26 | fakuve | Is there any mod in the channel? |
| 14:35.29 | ratrace | latest version of chrome is available on debian. now, if you want to be sarcasming and suggesting somoene is not "ready" for linux, the arguments are wrong. |
| 14:35.29 | oxek | "attacking" |
| 14:35.35 | *** mode/#debian [+o jelly] by ChanServ |
| 14:35.36 | j5v1 | ive literally not attacked you in any way |
| 14:35.38 | jelly | fakuve, yes? |
| 14:35.44 | fakuve | well look |
| 14:35.47 | oxek | gets the popcorn |
| 14:35.55 | fakuve | I've been using linux for 5 years |
| 14:35.57 | fakuve | or more |
| 14:36.00 | j5v1 | try the ##javascript channel if this is just node related |
| 14:36.03 | fakuve | maybe I'm not as good as you |
| 14:36.09 | fakuve | and that is why I come here |
| 14:36.21 | fakuve | To judge on someone just because using node |
| 14:36.26 | j5v1 | ifs its been 5 years and you cant add something to the path, something is wrong |
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| 14:36.29 | fakuve | That is not good , to start with |
| 14:36.30 | jelly | "use tool X" is not an attack, even when X is window |
| 14:36.33 | jelly | windows* |
| 14:36.41 | fakuve | you sending me to use windows |
| 14:36.54 | jelly | bad tech advice are not attacks. |
| 14:36.58 | greycat | I wouldn't advocate using Windows either, but that's just me. |
| 14:36.59 | j5v1 | look for a book to improve on the fundamentals of linux and unix, that will help a lot |
| 14:37.22 | fakuve | jelly: is this guy your friend? |
| 14:37.34 | fakuve | I just cant stand someone talking this |
| 14:37.40 | fakuve | and getting away with it |
| 14:37.44 | jelly | fakuve, that's _your_ problem, not ours |
| 14:37.57 | fakuve | You let this people give advice in your channel? |
| 14:37.58 | jelly | keep it to tech stuff, please |
| 14:38.10 | fakuve | instead of keeping it friendly? |
| 14:38.20 | fakuve | Fair enough |
| 14:38.27 | ratrace | the drama is just one apt install away from resolving itself. |
| 14:38.31 | imMute | fakuve: j5v1 might be rough in the delivery, but he's right that you have a decent amount of "foundational" linux learning to do still. suggesting you use some other OS if it's more familiar to you is valid. |
| 14:38.47 | *** mode/#debian [-o jelly] by ChanServ |
| 14:38.52 | greycat | When one sees an error message of the form "/usr/bin/env: 'zagnut': No such file or directory", it means "a program called /usr/bin/env was looking for zagnug and did not find it". More to the point, with /usr/bin/env *specifically*, there's a 99% chance it means you ran a script that had "#!/usr/bin/env zagnut" as its shebang line. It means you're supposed to have a program called zagnut somewhere in |
| 14:38.58 | greycat | your PATH. |
| 14:39.25 | ratrace | aye |
| 14:39.35 | greycat | The immediate diagnostic step that you take is to run "type zagnut" to see whether you do, in fact, have a program by that name in your PATH. |
| 14:40.01 | greycat | Or else you remember "Oops, I forgot I had to install zagnut first. Let me go do that." |
| 14:40.20 | j5v1 | fakuve, try this command if you are having PATH issues: |
| 14:40.26 | ratrace | enter "which type" abbott & costello confusion |
| 14:40.27 | j5v1 | echo "" >> ~/.bashrc; echo 'PATH="${PATH}:/path/to/node/executable"' >> ~/.bashrc; |
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| 14:40.32 | j5v1 | and restart your terminal |
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| 14:40.39 | j5v1 | but update the path |
| 14:41.06 | j5v1 | this will add a line to the .bashrc to include the directory to the node executable to your PATH |
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| 14:41.19 | greycat | j5v1: that is not the best place to change PATH, but I understand why you're taking the easy-but-wrong answer with this kind of querent. |
| 14:41.22 | ratrace | I'd prefer greycat's method of symlinking to ~/bin/ |
| 14:41.47 | j5v1 | yes, the symlink would be the most optimal approach |
| 14:42.04 | ratrace | also, ~/.bashrc only affects the bash shell. there may be tools that want node on the PATH ousside of a shell |
| 14:42.26 | oxek | greycat: is it possible that /usr/bin/env does not find 'zagnut', but `type zagnut` does? |
| 14:42.51 | j5v1 | ratrace, good point |
| 14:42.57 | greycat | The most likely cause for *that* would be that you ran the type command in a different shell from the one where you ran the script that gave the error. |
| 14:43.30 | oxek | yeah, that came to me as the only explanation for such behavior |
| 14:43.46 | greycat | (E.g. the script is actually invoked by some Desktop Environment launcher doohicky and not an interactive shell, and they have different PATHs) |
| 14:44.29 | greycat | (which is *one* of the reasons why appending to PATH in .bashrc is not the best answer) |
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| 14:48.22 | fakuve | The solution was to `sudo apt install nodejs` , and then use the package which is a version "manager" `nvm install node` this will update `node -v` from the Stone Age ish v10.24 to a more decent v16.1.0 |
| 14:50.37 | fakuve | Some people code or use `JS` some people do it in `C` . Some people have a better understanding of `linux` some others are a bit more noobs . But no need to send someone to `Windows` and `VS-code` for prejudging . Don't think you are semi-gods of Computers |
| 14:50.53 | fakuve | We are here to help the noob |
| 14:51.25 | ratrace | "16:38 < ratrace> the drama is just one apt install away from resolving itself." |
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| 14:53.14 | fakuve | :D |
| 14:54.35 | ratrace | fakuve: also, "the noob" refuses to understand that debian version is not "stone age" really and numbers per se don't mean anything |
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| 14:57.27 | j5v1 | version 1.0 to 10.0 took about 10 years, while 10.0 to 16.0 took about 2. versions numbers get very bloated for mature projects to convince people the tech has changed dramatically when it really hasnt |
| 14:57.35 | j5v1 | for nodejs |
| 14:58.31 | ratrace | precisely. especially for "agile" development models that bump a version every two hours, probably even have `git commit` in a crontab |
| 14:58.39 | ratrace | (not joking, seen it) |
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| 14:59.27 | ratrace | gitlab for example. supposedly semantic versioning (major.minor.patch) but it bumps major every few days |
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| 15:00.53 | j5v1 | its sad really how bad version number bloat has gotten. firefox went from version 1.0 to 3.0 in 4 years, and then 3.0 to around 90.0 in around 12 years |
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| 15:01.58 | j5v1 | its a good marketing strategy though |
| 15:02.27 | ratrace | yeah. exploiting the craving for !sns. |
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| 15:04.17 | oxek | gnome 40 |
| 15:04.31 | oxek | went 37 versions in a couple years |
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| 15:19.10 | unixbsd | what is the main official irc of debian? |
| 15:20.29 | oxek | #debian on oftc |
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| 15:21.29 | somiaj | !oftc |
| 15:21.29 | dpkg | OFTC is the Open and Free Technology Community, a support/collaboration service. They have an IRC network: irc.oftc.net. You may (or may not) be connected to OFTC's network. http://www.oftc.net/ See also <freenode>, <oftc move> and <fact sharing>. |
| 15:21.47 | somiaj | !oftc move |
| 15:21.47 | dpkg | irc.debian.org moved to OFTC on June 4th 2006, see http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/05/msg00012.html. Operators and bots (see <fact sharing>) will remain on both networks for the foreseeable future; you're welcome to either move to OFTC with i.d.o or stay on freenode. Questions? Ask in #debian on one or other network. See also http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2006/04/msg00333.html |
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| 15:24.50 | jblack | Has anyone seen it when apt upgrade will successfully reinstall the same package time and time again? |
| 15:25.15 | oxek | jblack: that does not sound right |
| 15:25.31 | greycat | sounds like it *didn't* succeed |
| 15:25.34 | coc0nut | unixbsd, i think youre more likely to get your question answered in this channel :p been on both this one and oftc #debian and the oftc channel is pretty quiet |
| 15:26.14 | arkalpha | isn't that "apt pinning" when it does that? not sure |
| 15:26.47 | greycat | pinning just breaks the whole system, doesn't cause a single version of a single package to be reinstalled repeatedly |
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| 15:27.01 | jblack | we dont' seem to have any pins listed on the system |
| 15:27.48 | arkalpha | interesting |
| 15:27.51 | greycat | jblack: what Debian release, what package, what version of the package, and what does apt actually *say* when this error happens? |
| 15:27.57 | jblack | one thing that we see (and there is some funkiness going on I haven't mentioned), is that the same package version is listed more than once in teh version table for apt policy for the package |
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| 15:28.22 | greycat | is one of these repositories a local one that you made? |
| 15:29.28 | jblack | Yes, this is a local repository that we have made. we're backporting a package because of compliance need |
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| 15:30.25 | greycat | And you forgot to bump the version number in your locally built package. That's why. Apt considers foo-1.2 from an official repo to be better than foo-1.2 that you built. So make yours foo=1.2+me or something. |
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| 15:32.52 | jblack | Thank you sir, we'll give that a try! To where shall I send some pizza, or beer, or a donation? |
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| 15:37.17 | Peyam | I have usb port on my screen. my screen is connected to a hp dockingstation. using debian my keyboard that was connected to the usb port on my screen no longer worked |
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| 15:37.35 | Peyam | do I have to have drivers to my hp docking station? |
| 15:40.37 | jblack | Peyam: I'd like to think that ocking stations would normally act as a usb hub and transparently work |
| 15:40.53 | Peyam | jblack, me too. it didn't |
| 15:41.05 | Peyam | probably should use bolt package |
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| 15:46.16 | Peyam | it is my computer not the dock. it has a charging usb C |
| 15:46.18 | Peyam | only |
| 15:46.29 | Peyam | but it is strange that my mouse works |
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| 15:55.43 | cluna | Hi Peyam, in the terminal if you execute dmesg -c and after connect keyboard and execute dmesg, you can see if keyboard is detected |
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| 16:08.49 | sappheiros | the 'dict' package had no entry for 'schola'. Would you recommend a better dictionary? or something I can do to increase its scope? |
| 16:09.03 | sappheiros | (i tried 'dict schola' in uxterm after installing the package) |
| 16:09.26 | greycat | dict is just the program; it depends on one or more dictionary packages, which are separate |
| 16:09.32 | sappheiros | or should i just open firefox and search duckduckgo each time rather than try some CLI dictionary? |
| 16:09.34 | sappheiros | hmmm |
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| 16:10.32 | greycat | ,info dict-foldoc |
| 16:10.33 | sappheiros | i'll install dict-bouvier and search Synaptic Package Manager a bit more to see if there are other packages |
| 16:10.35 | judd | Package dict-foldoc (text, optional) in buster/amd64: FOLDOC dictionary database. Version: 20181230-1; Size: 2346.5k; Installed: 2539k; Homepage: http://foldoc.org/ |
| 16:11.05 | sappheiros | ah, i guess I should install that one also -- is that the equivalent of Apple having info about their OS included in their Dictionary app? |
| 16:11.08 | greycat | that's the first one in the Suggests: for dictd |
| 16:12.05 | sappheiros | oh, it appears dict and dictd are different >_< |
| 16:12.28 | greycat | ,depends dict |
| 16:12.29 | judd | Package dict in buster/amd64 -- depends: netbase, recode, libc6 (>= 2.14), libmaa4 (>= 1.2.0). |
| 16:12.36 | greycat | ,suggests dict |
| 16:12.36 | judd | Package dict in buster/amd64 -- suggests: dictd | dict-server, gawk, m4. |
| 16:12.50 | sappheiros | ah https://tldp.org/LDP/LG/issue63/gibbs.html |
| 16:15.43 | sappheiros | Is there a place that logs package installation history so you can review changes you've made since installing Debian10 to a fresh hard drive? |
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| 16:37.02 | taman | sappheiros: look under /var/log/apt |
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| 16:46.05 | Walex2 | adhoc: 11/59? Is that a typo for 11/60? |
| 16:46.29 | Walex2 | oops wrong channel |
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| 16:56.55 | arkalpha | sappheiros: there is also dpkg.log |
| 17:00.05 | alexrelis[m] | Okay guys, so I heard from someone that you can actually set up an apt repository but with AppImages. Is this true? |
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| 17:01.38 | sney | appimages and debian packages are quite different things, so a regular apt repo would not know what to do with an appimage |
| 17:01.55 | sney | but in concept, sure, there's probably some kind of networked package manager out there for appimages |
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| 17:03.36 | alexrelis[m] | sney: Wow. Then this guy made up a flat out lie. |
| 17:03.37 | somiaj | you could (though I don't see what you would gain outside of confusion) put an appimage inside a .deb, though this would be only for personal use and app images do not meat debian policy. |
| 17:03.52 | sney | why would someone do that, just go on the internet and tell lies |
| 17:04.04 | alexrelis[m] | sney: lol |
| 17:04.15 | alexrelis[m] | One of those AppImage diehards. |
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| 17:05.49 | alexrelis[m] | My concern was that there is no way to centrally update them, and then I read from the person that you can do it via apt or dnf. If apt ever includes this functionality though (and if there was some AppArmor or SElinux hardening involved), I would be inclined to support it over flatpak. |
| 17:06.41 | alexrelis[m] | Only because such a thing would integrate so well with existing setups. I could imagine someone being overwhelmed with choices as to what format they should install things in. |
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| 17:08.13 | somiaj | maybe one day some decent way to build distro indepdenent packages will be created, but in the end most will not be offically supported by debian. |
| 17:08.29 | somiaj | alexrelis[m]: why not use snap or flatpak which already contains tools for this? |
| 17:09.02 | maxrazer | I've seen app-images again a few times recently and I don't mind those. The snaps and flatpaks I generally don't mind. |
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| 17:09.22 | maxrazer | Part of the reason I like Debian over Ubuntu is the not using snaps. |
| 17:09.56 | maxrazer | Debian unstable or arch makes a good desktop setup. I think FreeBSD is good for server; BTW. |
| 17:10.08 | alexrelis[m] | somiaj: I use flatpak for things like Element that need to be updated consistently. But just recently a friend of mine is interested in using GNU/Linux and now I have to explain to him all of these software distribution methods. |
| 17:10.51 | somiaj | Yea, this is partly one of the reasons desktop software on linux is always a pain, there really isn't a good (imo) way for developers to develope packages that cover all linux distros. And it isn't reasonable for a developer to have to make a package for each distro out there. |
| 17:11.05 | maxrazer | I think something in the BSD world allows you to download delta data only for package upgrades. |
| 17:11.08 | alexrelis[m] | But I see the appeal if it was done by apt. You can add trusted third party "AppImage" repos without having to worry about dependency conflicts and they update every time you run `apt update && apt full-upgrade`. |
| 17:11.35 | somiaj | alexrelis[m]: apt will never do this feature, apt is meant for downloading and install .deb packages only. |
| 17:12.14 | maxrazer | App images will probably just be treated like downloading an executable without any image or package. Just put it somewhere and link it in how you like. |
| 17:12.45 | maxrazer | If you build from source or download an executable sometimes it has no image or package. It just works. |
| 17:12.48 | alexrelis[m] | somiaj: Maybe the original team won't do it, but a fork of apt could. I don't think it's impossible. |
| 17:12.54 | somiaj | Yea, it is more the windows method, which unless the appimage contains a way to upgrade it inplace, you have to go download the new version once it was released. |
| 17:13.16 | alexrelis[m] | somiaj: But that's my point. |
| 17:13.23 | somiaj | alexrelis[m]: I really hope no one forks apt for this, apt is a front end to dpkg, it is designed and meant to install .deb packages. |
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| 17:13.41 | maxrazer | I've seen .deb packages where the application notifies you in the application that there is a newer version and you click the link and it takes you to the software website and you download the new .deb package. That works pretty well. |
| 17:13.50 | alexrelis[m] | If it integrated with apt, then you can centrally update AppImages without having the user install the executable every time. |
| 17:14.05 | alexrelis[m] | maxrazer: It works well, but it's a pain. |
| 17:14.25 | maxrazer | I think app-image is just used for people who don't quite have the ability to make packages, people who are on the edge of support. |
| 17:14.54 | maxrazer | That is generally a small number of people/projects I think. Most get some way to make packages. I don't know how, but people who develop a lot seem to figure it out. |
| 17:15.20 | maxrazer | I think there is that open build system that Suse has. |
| 17:15.23 | somiaj | maxrazer: not quite, some upstream just don't want to have to create packages for each and every linux distro. Having a central method is nice. |
| 17:15.44 | maxrazer | What about that Suse open build system? If I understand it helps automate building packages for all the distros. |
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| 17:16.32 | maxrazer | I see a lot with just .deb or .rpm, which tends to cover things. Then arch will have an in-house solution. |
| 17:16.34 | somiaj | Haven't looked into that, and maybe one day some standard method will be used. Though I think snap/flatpak are more in line of a good method vs appimages. |
| 17:16.59 | maxrazer | Arch can pretty much convert .deb to their format. If you release .deb and .rpm that covers just about everything. |
| 17:17.17 | somiaj | since they already provide some central repository tools to install/upgrade/manage the packages from a central source rather just download manually. |
| 17:18.23 | maxrazer | Even if the packages are .deb they won't necessarily be in the Debian repository. |
| 17:18.31 | alexrelis[m] | somiaj: |
| 17:18.32 | alexrelis[m] | > Though I think snap/flatpak are more in line of a good method vs appimages. |
| 17:18.32 | alexrelis[m] | A good method because you can centrally update them. But if AppImages integrated with apt or dnf with proper hardening then you gotta admit, that would be cool. |
| 17:18.32 | somiaj | maxrazer: it is a bit more complicated than that if you want to actually follow policy and use shared libaries instead of static linked. |
| 17:18.46 | alexrelis[m] | And no, I'm not saying that AppImages should be in the official Debian repos. |
| 17:18.57 | alexrelis[m] | I'm talking in the context of third party repos that developers ca nmake. |
| 17:19.27 | maxrazer | I guess you would have to start adding a lot of repositories sources. At times I have added a lot of those. It isn't as many as the PPA's though. They do that a lot. |
| 17:19.44 | somiaj | alexrelis[m]: again this isn't going to happen, hence why snap/flatpak was created. People using appimages should use snap/flatpak if they want to make use of some central repo and upgrading capibilities |
| 17:20.15 | maxrazer | I generally find that if a software is open source and widely used it will end up with a package maintainer and in the Debian repo. If not Debian then it will be in Arch and using Arch is an option. |
| 17:20.18 | somiaj | personally I don't see anything inheritally better about appimages vs snaps or flatpak's, they are all trying to solve a similar problem. |
| 17:20.54 | alexrelis[m] | Sure, but then they have to deal with running three commands, and you have to deal with the confusion that a user may have as to which method they should install a program. |
| 17:21.03 | maxrazer | I like Appimages because they are separate from the management systems. They are more similar to just downloading a binary executable. |
| 17:21.15 | alexrelis[m] | But anyways, I believe this is going in circles, so I'll stop. |
| 17:21.49 | maxrazer | I download binary executable or build from source all the time. I just put it in a home directory and then put a script in my path which links to that. |
| 17:24.06 | maxrazer | I use /usr/local/bin/ for scripts which will then point to /opt/ or /home/username/bin |
| 17:25.05 | greycat | I wouldn't point from /usr/local to /home/someone/ -- that's backwards. You're exposing your private work-in-progress stuff to the wider system. |
| 17:25.27 | greycat | /usr/local/bin to /opt/foo/bin is fine, though |
| 17:26.25 | maxrazer | I checked and right now I don't have anything in /home/username/bin or that folder. I have done that in the past. |
| 17:27.01 | maxrazer | Ok, I'll try to keep with that and use opt. |
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| 17:31.30 | maxrazer | It looks like packages put the script in /usr/bin and I put scripts in /usr/local/bin |
| 17:31.40 | maxrazer | And they all point to /opt/appname/executable |
| 17:32.20 | maxrazer | I used to add to the $PATH, but realized I could use /usr/local/bin and use the current $PATH |
| 17:33.29 | greycat | scripts don't point to things; they either wrap them (and you'd need an actual change of some kind to justify a wrapper), or you just make a symlink |
| 17:33.48 | maxrazer | Well, they make a call to something. |
| 17:34.01 | maxrazer | You don't want to call that point. |
| 17:34.17 | greycat | so you have /usr/local/bin/foo = exec /opt/foo/bin/foo "$@" ? That's a waste. Just use a symlink instead. |
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| 17:34.42 | maxrazer | You know I debated using a bash script vs. symlink and did use symlinks at one time. |
| 17:35.10 | maxrazer | What I found was that bash scripts allowed more flexibility at least for some applications because I wanted to call that executable with specific arguments. |
| 17:35.24 | maxrazer | So, I just started using bash scripts for everything. |
| 17:35.41 | greycat | If you're adding an argument, then yeah, the wrapper script is perfect. |
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| 17:36.40 | maxrazer | I'm putting arguments into the script. At times I've added $@ so I can add arguments as well on the command line. |
| 17:36.58 | greycat | you mean "$@" |
| 17:37.18 | maxrazer | Oh, in quotes you mean? |
| 17:37.23 | greycat | Yes. |
| 17:37.33 | maxrazer | Ok, you are very detailed. |
| 17:37.54 | greycat | Computers are too, so we have to be. |
| 17:38.08 | maxrazer | Yeah, I couldn't exactly even remember what that was. I forget that one sometimes and have to look it up. |
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| 17:38.37 | maxrazer | But I found out some years ago that I couldn't add arguments on the command line to my bash script. I kind of expected it to just work. |
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| 17:43.12 | rowbee | hi, anyone get really high PID numbers in debian as of a few months ago? when did kernel.pid_max change? |
| 17:43.22 | rowbee | i'm just curious, i haven't seen any announcement about this i think |
| 17:43.49 | rowbee | i looked at the buster changelog but couldn't find anything about it |
| 17:48.14 | greycat | rowbee: the 5.x kernels use a much larger PID space |
| 17:48.30 | rowbee | yeah i got kernel.pid_max = 4194304 |
| 17:48.39 | greycat | uname -r |
| 17:48.48 | rowbee | 5.8.16 |
| 17:49.01 | greycat | so, yeah, that's not a Debian kernel... |
| 17:49.24 | rowbee | i built it with a few patches for my weird hardware, but i got it from apt source linux-image-amd64 |
| 17:49.35 | greycat | But the official Debian kernels (buster-backports or bullseye) have the same enlarged PID space. |
| 17:49.41 | rowbee | gotchu |
| 17:49.53 | rowbee | thanks for the answer |
| 17:50.21 | maxrazer | You are right to point out the quotes I was forgetting them actually on the "$@" and probably thought you were using them for the message only. But they are there. I think I would probably remember if I started to type the script though due to context. |
| 17:51.10 | maxrazer | Or, maybe not. |
| 17:52.06 | greycat | Then the reminder was perhaps helpful. |
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| 17:56.28 | wald0 | im trying to send a bug to debian using the reportbug cli tool but my gmail fails to connect, how i can send it (the saved report) using my gmail interface now? |
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| 17:59.17 | wald0 | well, let me try to just send it to the details included in the log file |
| 17:59.41 | wald0 | question: what is a recommended friendly / fast tool for reporting bugs to debian ? |
| 18:01.05 | lpancescu | hi, how can i remove packages installed a few days ago via apt build-dep? |
| 18:02.35 | mentor | lpancescu: They can be removed as any other package |
| 18:03.01 | lpancescu | wald0: the only tool for reporting bugs in debian (that i know of) is reportbug - not necessarily friendly, and you normally need to be able to send email from that system |
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| 18:03.46 | lpancescu | mentor: i know, they are normal packages, but which packages are they? can i get a list of what got installed? |
| 18:04.06 | lpancescu | i can apt remove them if i can get a list |
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| 18:04.53 | mentor | lpancescu: The build-depends line lives on the source package |
| 18:05.26 | mentor | lpancescu: aptitude would have logged the action; I'm not sure if apt does. |
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| 18:30.40 | lpancescu | mentor: i managed to find the log in /var/log/apt/history.log, with a little vim editing i could get a package list. apparently mk-build-deps -i is the better way, as it creates a new package depending on the packages you wanted, and which you can lter remove to remove all |
| 18:30.45 | lpancescu | thanks |
| 18:34.54 | longshot | What's the difference between linux-image amd64 and amd64-unsigned packages? |
| 18:35.25 | towo` | the unsigned ones would not boot with secureboot |
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| 18:35.43 | longshot | Thanks! |
| 18:35.57 | longshot | Is there any time that would be preferred? |
| 18:37.15 | longshot | Like if you don't have secureboot or it's disabled it would just ignore the signature, right? I'm not thinking of any cases where you would explicitly need the signature to be absent. |
| 18:37.20 | lpancescu | not really, as the signed kernels will boot on every system, while the unsigned won't |
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| 19:00.04 | greycat | wonders why google-chrome-stable is showing a green (Update :) in the upper right corner but there're no new packages in the Google repo when I apt-get update. |
| 19:03.14 | somiaj | greycat: have you restarted google-chrome-stable since you installed the most recent package? |
| 19:03.36 | somiaj | I only know that with chromium, that green arrow appears if the binary on the machine doesn't match the one that is running. |
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| 19:06.03 | greycat | I'm ... not 100% sure. I know I upgraded and then downgraded and then re-upgraded on Tuesday, because Peacock stopped working then, and I was trying to pinpoint why. I thought I restarted under the re-upgraded version. |
| 19:06.48 | greycat | Hmm, OK. Help shows .93 and dpkg -l shows .212. |
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| 19:11.38 | somiaj | and I think chromium only notitce the difference between running version and binary on the machine if you run the new binary and then it opens up a tab/window using the current running binary. So it won't notice right away if the binary version has changed or not. |
| 19:12.15 | greycat | Yeah, I restarted this thing two days ago and it didn't notice until now. |
| 19:12.17 | somiaj | I assume google-chrome does something similar. |
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| 20:06.26 | alex11 | how can i disable services on startup? |
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| 20:08.29 | imMute | alex11: sudo systemctl disable <service> |
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| 20:08.46 | alex11 | that stops it on next boot? |
| 20:08.57 | imMute | that makes it so the service won't auto start on boot. |
| 20:09.14 | alex11 | what is the difference between that and mask? |
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| 20:10.08 | imMute | https://askubuntu.com/questions/816285/what-is-the-difference-between-systemctl-mask-and-systemctl-disable |
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| 20:11.03 | Thete | is there any way to install libc6 v 2.33 on debian? |
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| 20:11.20 | Thete | like with dpkg or apt or something? |
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| 20:12.35 | imMute | Thete: latest version available is 2.31 for sid. so no. |
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| 20:13.51 | zathras | On Buster + xfce4 I see Chromium haveing issues with printing. Often but not always (!) the printer does not get recognized. How can I analyze and fix this please? |
| 20:14.04 | Thete | dang, I really didn't want to have to use ubuntu, thanks guys |
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| 20:14.28 | Thete | for info |
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| 20:36.12 | deadrom | hi. when sharing with samba , I try to access the share from win10 or another deb10 machine and they both don't let me, wrong password. I set the password with smbpasswd for that user. what could be wrong? |
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| 20:36.45 | deadrom | I can access a share on another deb10 from win10 fine, same smb config apart from the hostname and share names/paths |
| 20:42.03 | wald0 | lpancescu: thats the big problem, what if people cannot send emails from this computer? (most of people?), debian will not receive bugs? |
| 20:42.57 | greycat | One might argue that if a user can't send email, they wouldn't generate a very useful bug report either. |
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| 20:44.43 | lpancescu | wald0: i didn't design the system, many debian tools were continuously developed, but show their age. i don't find ubuntu's launchpad better |
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| 20:45.16 | greycat | Debian's entire infrastructure and culture are intimately tied to Internet email. |
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| 20:46.20 | mutante | how about the "using a custom SMTP server part" on https://wiki.debian.org/reportbug |
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| 20:46.34 | mutante | if you can use any SMTP server.. then the users should be able to mail, no? |
| 20:46.38 | lpancescu | wald0: i think you can generate a text file that you can paste. but confuring exim4 or postfix as a satellite, to only send emails is not *that* complicated, debconf helps |
| 20:47.06 | lpancescu | configuring^ |
| 20:47.19 | sney | or generate the bug report, stick it on some removable media, and email it to submit@bugs.debian.org the same way you'd send any other mail |
| 20:47.24 | sney | it is just text output |
| 20:47.29 | mutante | wald0: the example there shows how to use gmail to mail out with reportbug |
| 20:47.58 | mutante | basically the users have to run reportbug --configure |
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| 20:48.26 | lpancescu | using bugzilla from the browser is easier, i admit |
| 20:48.37 | greycat | even pasting it into a web browser where they run their "web mail" (barf) would do it |
| 20:48.57 | greycat | lpancescu: easier for some people, I suppose. |
| 20:49.59 | mutante | "what if the users cant use a browser" and "what if the users cant email" seems roughly on the same level of likeliness |
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| 20:52.59 | lpancescu | it's about usability, i think. you can click a form, or you can rtfm about the tags recongnized by bugs.d.o. to mark bugs as duplicates, signal you provided a patch, mark it as a security issuem, as duplicate, etc. |
| 20:53.11 | greycat | I'd say those are questions with very different answers across the range of humans. |
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| 20:53.34 | greycat | some people (perhaps an overwhelming majority) may be more likely to have a working web browser than a working email setup |
| 20:53.43 | greycat | a few people may have working email but not have access to the web |
| 20:53.59 | lpancescu | i know it because i've used. for a new user, learning about that is an obstacle - just like vim vs gedit |
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| 21:04.14 | lpancescu | greycat: for headless servers, you are very likely right - would prefer email-based over using bugzilla from lynx |
| 21:06.05 | ratrace | why would you even want to report bug from a server... |
| 21:08.04 | ratrace | why is your server even allowing free roaming through shells, running browsers (sic!) or having the ability to send an email unless it's an MX server itself |
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| 21:12.26 | lpancescu | if it's a web server, you probably want wordpress to be able send emails, and shells are not a problem if you only offer ssh to root and https for users |
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| 21:14.50 | ratrace | which means your server is not locked down and you're DoingItWrong(tm) |
| 21:15.04 | doubletwist | so 2 mostly stock debian buster systems. Same /etc/apparmor.d/usr.sbin.ntpd, both in enforce mode. One ntp works fine, the other it fails unless I set it to compain mode. Why? |
| 21:16.03 | ratrace | doubletwist: pretty sure the audit trail tells you why |
| 21:16.11 | ratrace | the denial is literally in the logs |
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| 21:22.26 | doubletwist | https://paste.debian.net/1197529/ |
| 21:22.35 | doubletwist | but why would the same rules work on one host and not the other. |
| 21:23.04 | doubletwist | those rules being the default apparmor rules and the default ntp config/service on both hosts |
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| 21:27.38 | ratrace | doubletwist: default apparmor rules are not bug free |
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| 21:28.57 | doubletwist | ratrace: Ok but I would expect two basically identical debian buster stock systems to work consistently |
| 21:31.28 | ratrace | doubletwist: which debian is this? |
| 21:31.32 | ratrace | buster, you said... |
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| 21:35.03 | ratrace | doubletwist: welp, looking through the profile I can't see where the problem is. it permits network dgram ops, so that denial makes no sense... |
| 21:36.25 | ratrace | doubletwist: unless it requires more specific rule. what if you edited /etc/apparmor.d/usr.sbin.ntpd and added network inet dgram, network inet6 dgram, right below "network dgram" on line 31 ? |
| 21:36.42 | ratrace | each "network..." stanza on its own line |
| 21:37.38 | ratrace | but then... those should be permitted via nameservice abstraction, so again, it doesn't make any sense |
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| 21:42.23 | doubletwist | hrm, would sssd or a difference in nsswitch.conf affect that? That's one of the few differences between the boxes. One is using sssd for AD auth and the other isn't, so nsswitch.conf is different (only adding 'sss' to the passwd/shadow/group/service/netgroup entries |
| 21:43.13 | doubletwist | I wouldn't expect so but (shrug) |
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| 21:43.43 | ratrace | I wouldn't either. that denial is about dgram sendmsg, which should be permitted by namesrvice abstraction's "network..." stanzas |
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| 21:44.36 | ratrace | dunno. stock apparmor profiles are atrocious and in many cases too wide open. I prefer writing my own, but unfortunately for this case, I don't use ntpd and I don't have one for it |
| 21:45.05 | doubletwist | Thanks for trying. |
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| 21:48.21 | deadrom | expanded raid5 set from 3 disks to 4, went fine, but xfs_growfs /mnt/array does nothing. the manpage says needs to be run on the mount point, but says data size unchanged, skipping |
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| 21:49.35 | deadrom | I tried xfs_growfs -d , no difference, I tired -d /dev/md0p1 , that says "no XFS filesystem on md0p1" (which is bogus, the fs at md0p1 mounts fine, but with the old size |
| 21:51.37 | deadrom | now here it I think this suggest to run xfs_growfs on /dev/md0 instead, but I am hesitant as it contrdicts the manpage. https://forum.openmediavault.org/index.php?thread/20675-expand-xfs-filesystem-after-adding-a-5th-drive-to-raid-5/ |
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| 22:01.01 | deadrom | ah: md0 is now the new size, but md0p1 is not of course. need to enlarge it... |
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| 22:11.27 | longshot | Is there a better way I can control the before/after dependencies for systemd? |
| 22:12.22 | longshot | I need a strict hard requirement for my service to run *serially* before another serivce. I've added some debugging lines to my script and I can see that the other service that MUST run later is already running when my service starts up. |
| 22:12.49 | longshot | What are my options for *forcing* systemd to do what I want? |
| 22:13.01 | ratrace | to do what exactly? |
| 22:13.23 | longshot | I need to 100% guarantee that another service does not begin starting before my service has concluded |
| 22:13.24 | ratrace | you frist have to very, very precisely describe the condition and relationship between services |
| 22:13.39 | ratrace | longshot: define "concluded". exited? |
| 22:13.45 | longshot | Yes. |
| 22:13.53 | ratrace | so Type=oneshot ? |
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| 22:14.11 | longshot | got that already |
| 22:14.47 | ratrace | okay, then how are you expressing the relationship? with Before= and/or After= ? |
| 22:15.13 | longshot | Yes, I have both Before and RequiredBy |
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| 22:16.04 | ratrace | so then it should behave exactly as you expect it. systemd considers Type=oneshot services "started" when the main process exits. that satisfies the Before for dependency |
| 22:16.20 | longshot | It's not though. |
| 22:16.37 | longshot | The Before= services that I listed are already done when my script starts. |
| 22:16.43 | ratrace | are you sure? put, like, a long sleep in ExecStart or something to see how they line up |
| 22:18.00 | longshot | When my script starts, the first thing I do is check to see if the other thing has finished. |
| 22:18.11 | longshot | I check this by looking for artifacts on the filesystem. |
| 22:18.38 | longshot | They can't exist before the other service starts, and they're all already present when my service runs. |
| 22:18.48 | jmcnaught | Maybe thing 1 could be an ExecStartPre= line in thing 2's service unit, combining the units? |
| 22:19.41 | longshot | So I have to have like a postinst script that will go modify some other package's unit file? |
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| 22:19.55 | longshot | That doesn't seem like the right thing at all. |
| 22:19.56 | ratrace | no, why? you can have local overrides in /etc |
| 22:20.17 | ratrace | but I'm really convinced that this works as expected and you're maybe missing something or not looking at it correctly |
| 22:20.43 | jmcnaught | Maybe telling us what the services are or sharing the units in a pastebin would help clarify then. |
| 22:20.46 | ratrace | I know because I have such services. Type=oneshot, Before=somethingelse.service and somethingelse.service doesn't start until this oneshot exits |
| 22:21.14 | longshot | My service is already in /etc/systemd/<service I want to run later>.requires/ |
| 22:21.46 | longshot | ratrace: That's why I'm asking. I'm trying to figure out wtf I'm doing wrong. |
| 22:22.23 | longshot | I'm tring to preempt zpool import |
| 22:23.02 | ratrace | longshot: do you have RemainAfterExit=yes in your "before" service? |
| 22:23.07 | longshot | I need to do somethings before the pool is imported. The first line of my script is `zpool list ; zfs list`, and the pool and all datasets are already imported. |
| 22:23.13 | ratrace | longshot: preempting zpool import, to do what? |
| 22:23.24 | longshot | I have RemainAfterExit=false |
| 22:24.03 | longshot | I'm building an appliance type of system. So if there's a bootparameter passed in I want to destroy the pool |
| 22:24.18 | longshot | this is the factory reset mechanism |
| 22:24.19 | ratrace | sounds like maybe a task for an initramfs script |
| 22:24.52 | ratrace | because really... are you sure the pool is imported from the systemd service and not from initramfs? |
| 22:24.53 | longshot | So maybe this should be in the live-bottom? |
| 22:25.49 | longshot | ratrace: It might be imported from the initramfs. |
| 22:25.51 | ratrace | you mean init-bottom? I don't know what you're doing there exctly |
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| 22:26.58 | longshot | I've got usr/lib/live/share/initramfs-tools/{hooks,scripts/live-bottom} so far |
| 22:27.06 | longshot | and scripts in each of those. |
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| 22:27.33 | ratrace | I don't know what live-bottom does, and that path for initramfs-tools I'm not familiar with |
| 22:27.49 | ratrace | I also have no idea how specific live dvd environment is |
| 22:28.13 | ratrace | but for initramfs-tools, you have "scripts" which execute in stages on boot, for regular debian installation. |
| 22:30.50 | longshot | OK. |
| 22:30.56 | longshot | Yeah, I think this is what I need to do. |
| 22:31.20 | ratrace | the initramfs-tools(7) manpage explains the "scripts" stages |
| 22:31.32 | ratrace | then again I don't know what your "factory reset" really does |
| 22:31.45 | longshot | It may not seem like it, but I think this definitely helped. Digging through some of the other stuff I've got, I think I know where I can insert these things. |
| 22:32.06 | longshot | So it's a live image and data is stored on the pool. |
| 22:32.37 | longshot | If the pool doesn't exist it will automatically go into setup that prompts for config params, creates the pool, writes the config and reboots. |
| 22:33.30 | longshot | and that stuff is all working, but I can't destroy the pool while I'm using it, so the factory reset is triggered from a boot menu option |
| 22:34.14 | longshot | I can detect the boot parameter and that all works, just when I tried to destroy the pool it couldn't. |
| 22:34.57 | longshot | But I think moving what I'm doing here into the initramfs-tools is what I need. |
| 22:35.14 | ratrace | yea, definitely before the zfs initramfs scripts do their job |
| 22:35.34 | ratrace | might even wanna modify that one so you "hook" (not in initramfs-tools meaning of "hooks") into its functionality |
| 22:37.04 | longshot | Yeah, that all makes sense. |
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| 22:38.06 | longshot | At least now I know I'm not crazy with the systemd stuff being out of order. It probably is in the order I expect, but the initfs is doing the import, not zfs-import.target so I was already way too late anyway. |
| 22:39.22 | ratrace | longshot: you can put an ExecStart=sleep 10 in the unit, above the regular ExecStart. and then look at the timestamps when each service has run. yours and zfs-import.service's |
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| 23:26.20 | neilthereildeil | hey guys |
| 23:26.36 | neilthereildeil | ive had problems with the last 2 ISO images of debian |
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| 23:26.43 | neilthereildeil | sddm doesnt automatically start |
| 23:26.53 | neilthereildeil | so when i boot, i dont automatically see X |
| 23:27.01 | neilthereildeil | i see vtty1 |
| 23:27.07 | neilthereildeil | with all the boot messages |
| 23:27.18 | neilthereildeil | ?with all the boot messages |
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| 23:27.31 | neilthereildeil | what do i have to do to make sddm start automatically? |
| 23:27.40 | dvs | neilthereildeil: systemctl enable sddm ? |
| 23:27.46 | neilthereildeil | i already did that |
| 23:27.49 | neilthereildeil | and i just rebooted |
| 23:28.02 | neilthereildeil | but im still at vtty1 |
| 23:28.15 | neilthereildeil | this is a fresh install |
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| 23:28.29 | neilthereildeil | from the debian wesite |
| 23:28.31 | neilthereildeil | amd64 |
| 23:28.58 | neilthereildeil | the boot messages said starting SDDM was OK |
| 23:29.10 | neilthereildeil | its hanging at starting hostname service |
| 23:30.17 | neilthereildeil | however startx works |
| 23:30.26 | neilthereildeil | why isnt startx getting called automatically? |
| 23:31.58 | abrotman | have you considered it's a video driver problem? |
| 23:32.05 | neilthereildeil | but startx works |
| 23:32.19 | neilthereildeil | abrotman: and ur right, theres no driver installed |
| 23:32.22 | neilthereildeil | so its using VESA |
| 23:32.24 | abrotman | then look at the sddm logs? |
| 23:32.26 | neilthereildeil | which is software rendering |
| 23:32.29 | neilthereildeil | which is OK for noiw |
| 23:32.44 | neilthereildeil | but it should at least show X automatically on boot |
| 23:32.46 | abrotman | you can type a whole sentence on a single line, we swear it won't hurt .. |
| 23:32.49 | neilthereildeil | it shouldnt be booting to the cmdline |
| 23:33.52 | abrotman | Which graphics card do you have? Does it require non-free drivers? Did you install those? |
| 23:34.00 | neilthereildeil | its ATI |
| 23:34.36 | neilthereildeil | and yes, it requires nonfree drivers. but again, even VESA software drivers should work for now to simply get X to automatically display with SDDM. |
| 23:35.36 | neilthereildeil | abrotman: my goal is to just get X with VESA automatically starting |
| 23:37.35 | abrotman | tried installing XDM to see if it behaves differently? |
| 23:37.53 | abrotman | or lightdm |
| 23:38.09 | neilthereildeil | hmmm not yet.. |
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| 23:40.41 | abrotman | what's the contents of /etc/X11/default-display-manager ? |
| 23:42.09 | neilthereildeil | Â /usr/bin/sddm |
| 23:42.50 | abrotman | and if you try to execute that (as root I guess?) |
| 23:43.39 | neilthereildeil | nothing |
| 23:43.42 | neilthereildeil | a flashing cursor |
| 23:43.50 | neilthereildeil | https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=230903 |
| 23:44.02 | neilthereildeil | i think theres a bug that requires me to install ati drivers |
| 23:44.14 | neilthereildeil | for some reason its not working with VESA |
| 23:44.25 | abrotman | xdm might .. not sure |
| 23:45.24 | neilthereildeil | so baiscally Debian doesnt work "out of the box" for any computer requiring nonfree drivers? |
| 23:45.40 | abrotman | You can use the non-free installer (unsupported, but works for many people) |
| 23:45.56 | abrotman | if you have functional network, installing the radeon drivers isn't difficult |
| 23:46.18 | neilthereildeil | no network doesnt work either |
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| 23:46.23 | abrotman | dpkg: firmware installer |
| 23:46.24 | dpkg | Debian-Installer is able to load additional <firmware>, by including it within installation media or supplying on removable media (e.g. USB stick, floppy). See http://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/ch06s04 . To include firmware within Debian <netboot> images, see http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/NetbootFirmware . See also <firmware images>. |
| 23:46.28 | abrotman | no .. not that |
| 23:46.30 | neilthereildeil | ill just say it: debian is broken out of the box |
| 23:46.31 | abrotman | dpkg: firmware images |
| 23:46.31 | dpkg | There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ The images are "unofficial" because "official Debian" includes only 100% free software. They are otherwise identical to the normal installer images and prepared by the same Debian Developers. See <check iso>. |
| 23:46.33 | abrotman | that |
| 23:47.19 | arkalpha | neilthereildeil: try Ubuntu |
| 23:47.44 | abrotman | I don't think it's really a Debian/Ubuntu problem .. |
| 23:48.03 | abrotman | it's easily solved with Debian |
| 23:48.11 | neilthereildeil | i think its a "freedom ofver functionality" problem |
| 23:48.15 | neilthereildeil | over* |
| 23:48.24 | abrotman | dpkg: dfsg |
| 23:48.24 | dpkg | DFSG is the Debian Free Software Guidelines, which are explained at http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines . For a full list of DFSG-compatible/incompatible software licenses, see http://wiki.debian.org/DFSGLicenses |
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| 23:49.00 | neilthereildeil | my wifi doesnt work either so i cant be in this chatroom and download drivers at the same time |
| 23:49.19 | abrotman | if oyu get the firmware images above, it'll likely all work |
| 23:49.50 | neilthereildeil | ok, thanks for the help so far |
| 23:50.02 | neilthereildeil | ill try to get it working when i have more time |
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