| 00:03.39 | the_p0pe | hey. ipv6 == rawk |
| 00:05.29 | *** join/#debianppc sourdough (eb@ash.penguinppc.org) |
| 00:05.44 | *** mode/#debianppc [-o core] by ChanServ |
| 00:28.41 | *** join/#debianppc bod (bod@londo.c47.org) |
| 00:33.28 | *** join/#debianppc jeapadea (~Snak@7-85-74-65.gci.net) |
| 01:28.32 | *** topic/#debianppc by sourdough -> Debian on PPC - think of it as a never-ending IQ test. || Install Debian on new (2003) PowerMacs with XFS: http://penguinppc.org/~eb/files/XFS-debian-README.txt || Want Linux 2.6 ? use 2.6.5 from kernel.org || Yaboot 1.3.12 released || http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35890 || BUG FIX: build nvram as <*>, NOT <m> |
| 02:02.35 | *** join/#debianppc Puggs (~matt@82-68-3-230.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 02:04.59 | chrisa | simonrvn: ping |
| 02:05.34 | *** join/#debianppc andrewupfold (~eqdvywubp@dsl-203-113-236-18.SA.netspace.net.au) |
| 02:06.06 | andrewupfold | hello? |
| 02:19.42 | *** join/#debianppc fman (~fprowse@203.79.119.214) |
| 02:19.44 | fman | hey all |
| 02:19.48 | fman | any mol users about? |
| 02:20.16 | chrisa | I use it to make pretty screenshots to piss off OSX users, but that's about it |
| 02:20.41 | sloopy | fman: yeah i have seen it ;') |
| 02:25.46 | fman | just trying to get an external firewire disk to work under MOL |
| 02:25.56 | fman | it is recognised by MOL at start |
| 02:26.05 | fman | and functions with the rest of the system |
| 02:26.14 | fman | so all the correct components are installed |
| 02:26.47 | fman | this is with 10.2 BTW |
| 02:27.18 | fman | I'm unable to install 10.3 as the disk is outside the first 8gigs..(or so the installer tells me) |
| 02:29.30 | fman | ?? |
| 02:29.59 | chrisa | Try the mol mailing list |
| 02:31.02 | fman | ok - will do... |
| 02:35.25 | *** join/#debianppc sk1p_ (alex@p5086DDC5.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 03:01.22 | sourdough | chrisa heh, are osx users pissed off by the deal of macos running under linux? |
| 03:02.31 | chrisa | sourdough: Considering I've been called a terrible person for running linux on my ibook, yes |
| 03:02.34 | *** join/#debianppc [MA]MTM84 (~MTM84@69.166.212.76) |
| 03:02.48 | chrisa | My favorite was: "You installed linux on that? YOU RUINED A MAC!!!" |
| 03:02.50 | sourdough | chrisa heh, i believe it.. |
| 03:02.55 | sourdough | bahahah |
| 03:03.18 | sourdough | id turn off any X display manager too just to really rub it in |
| 03:03.23 | chrisa | haha |
| 03:03.28 | sourdough | not only is it GNU/Linux, it boots into TEXT MODE |
| 03:03.32 | chrisa | "Yeah, I just use my ibook for my console |
| 03:03.38 | chrisa | Actually, I do boot to text mode :) |
| 03:03.42 | sourdough | hehehee |
| 03:03.49 | chrisa | Old school hating of *dm :) |
| 03:03.57 | sourdough | yeah |
| 03:04.30 | chrisa | hrm, I give kylem one more day before I search for a new advocate |
| 03:05.21 | sourdough | you trying to join the nutcase cabal ? |
| 03:05.57 | chrisa | Been planning to for a while, just wanted to wait till the class load lessened a tad |
| 03:06.35 | chrisa | walters and ijones were pretty supportive of it as well, they both live in columbus as well (though walters just moved) |
| 03:06.49 | sourdough | yeah i know walters |
| 03:06.53 | sourdough | he is a redhat user now |
| 03:07.08 | chrisa | He still wants to help debian, waiting on getting a debian box again |
| 03:07.25 | sourdough | yeah |
| 03:07.38 | sourdough | im having a hard time taking debian seriously lately |
| 03:07.44 | chrisa | If kylem still is MIA I'll probably wait till walters has a debian box and have him be my advocate |
| 03:07.49 | sourdough | with talk of moving the linux kernel to non-free |
| 03:07.58 | sourdough | or removing all of the important drivers.. |
| 03:08.06 | chrisa | heh, though it's kinda different in your case |
| 03:08.12 | sourdough | just because of frigging firmware everyone has used already |
| 03:08.15 | chrisa | He's a fedora user because he works for RH now :) |
| 03:08.20 | sourdough | yeah i know |
| 03:08.22 | chrisa | and yes, the firmware stuff is rediculous |
| 03:08.36 | chrisa | I say we let the kernel team decide if something should be in the kernel |
| 03:08.47 | chrisa | Or else pretty soon it's just going to be Debian/Hurd |
| 03:09.01 | sourdough | in principle i agree Free firmware would be nice (think apple OF) but in practice its not a big deal |
| 03:09.18 | sourdough | nothing has changed anyway, before firmware was on flash and you used non-free firmware anyway |
| 03:09.30 | sourdough | now its not on flash and loaded at runtime, so make it easier and safer to upgrade |
| 03:09.33 | sourdough | who cares |
| 03:09.52 | chrisa | I don't mind firmware being in non-free as long as the user is informed of this and given the option to add non-free sources at install |
| 03:10.06 | sourdough | i also heard talk of removing r128 drivers from Xfree because of firmware there |
| 03:10.06 | chrisa | Unlike what some people mentioned where they think sarge shouldn't mention non-free at all |
| 03:10.23 | sourdough | if they do that everyone will quit using debian since it won't work on any hadware |
| 03:10.45 | sourdough | chrisa i don't want to include non-free sources, because that includes non-free software |
| 03:11.05 | chrisa | sourdough: Well, it's better than just excluding the drivers |
| 03:11.07 | sourdough | i don't want non-free software, but i really don't give a rats dick about non-free firmware, which i already have to use to boot any computer i have |
| 03:11.18 | chrisa | I believe in the DFSG and GPL, but I also believe in giving the user a usable system |
| 03:11.55 | sourdough | yes but whats the point of having separate main and non-free if EVERYONE must include non-free to even get a bootable system? |
| 03:12.07 | sourdough | if they really want to be pedants create a firmware section |
| 03:12.21 | chrisa | sourdough: What's the point of removing all the firmware and crippling drivers :) |
| 03:12.32 | sourdough | but forcing non-free to get firmware dilutes the whole message and purpose |
| 03:12.37 | sourdough | chrisa exactly |
| 03:12.41 | sourdough | firmware != software |
| 03:12.59 | sourdough | maybe one day we will have Free firmware too, but for now, lets not worry about it so much |
| 03:13.28 | chrisa | Agreed |
| 03:14.01 | sourdough | i don't think even the free software foundation is making a issue of firmware |
| 03:14.13 | chrisa | To my knowledge they aren't |
| 03:14.25 | sourdough | sometimes you just have to pick your battles |
| 03:14.33 | chrisa | Firmware is just something you consider with the hardware |
| 03:14.35 | sourdough | lets finish winning the Free software war first |
| 03:14.39 | sourdough | yeah |
| 03:15.06 | chrisa | If they do a full vote on the firmware issue I suspect removing the firmware will be defeated |
| 03:15.15 | sourdough | probably |
| 03:15.24 | chrisa | Just like non-free's removal |
| 03:15.29 | sourdough | just as removing non-free was, though i supported removing non-free |
| 03:15.43 | chrisa | I supported removing non-free once I learned of nonfree.org |
| 03:15.51 | chrisa | Before that I opposed it |
| 03:15.51 | sourdough | yeah |
| 03:16.13 | sourdough | debian is just too big as it is, id rather see debian not distracted by issues of the non-free section |
| 03:16.43 | sourdough | otoh the way things are going everything in debian will be in non-free and main will be empty... |
| 03:17.53 | chrisa | I believe when licensing issues kill something we call it "Pulling an XFree86" now |