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| 00:09.04 | simonrvn | SeaForth: um, yeh, that'd be a problem for anyone =) |
| 00:18.41 | fluffy_wolf | SeaForth: "blue-noted"? |
| 00:19.14 | simonrvn | i guess highlighted or something |
| 00:20.26 | fluffy_wolf | I'm going to take a baseball bat to the fucker next door... his stereo is so loud MY room is shaking. |
| 00:20.44 | fluffy_wolf | and we're on unincorporated land, so I can't even call the police. |
| 00:20.57 | Stereo | fluffy_wolf: I'm sorry :( |
| 00:21.28 | fluffy_wolf | lol |
| 00:21.48 | fluffy_wolf | don't make me take a paddle to you. :P |
| 00:22.53 | fluffy_wolf | lol |
| 00:23.23 | simonrvn | *grin* |
| 00:23.46 | fluffy_wolf | I'm in a generally grumpy mood... getting fed up with people. |
| 00:23.49 | simonrvn | need to get bread |
| 00:24.01 | fluffy_wolf | why is it that 99.9% of the planet doesn't seem to care that anyone else exists? |
| 00:25.39 | fluffy_wolf | all people seem to care about is themselves... they're willing to hurt anyone in any amount if it benefits themselves even slightly. |
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| 00:26.08 | simonrvn | :( |
| 00:27.37 | fluffy_wolf | it's true though |
| 00:29.39 | fluffy_wolf | I don't know a single person that cares about anyone other than themselves... it's rather sad watching your own family members screw over other people to help themselves... |
| 00:30.51 | fluffy_wolf | one of my brothers is getting fatter and lazier by the day and does nothing other than play games and consume, my other brother just stole someone's go-kart, my father is taking customer's deposits and spending them on alcohol, etc, etc, etc... |
| 00:31.47 | fluffy_wolf | open up the newspaper... every article boils down to someone hurting someone else |
| 00:32.17 | fluffy_wolf | every person I meet... doesn't care about anything other than what helps them. |
| 00:32.22 | fluffy_wolf | fuck it. bbl, food. |
| 00:34.41 | simonrvn | :( |
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| 00:39.45 | Q-FUNK | been there, experienced that, they still got my t-shirt. |
| 00:41.18 | Q-FUNK | heck, even with my wife, sometimes... I wonder why I'm with her. |
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| 01:57.25 | Sonarman | hi, anyone know how i can add pppoe to the installer's initrd? i tried mounting it and chrooting, but it doesn't have apt-get or dpkg |
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| 02:49.54 | Stereo | chroot foo dpkg -i pppoe.deb |
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| 03:47.52 | davis_ | hello |
| 03:49.12 | davis_ | anybody use debianppc linux on pearpc? |
| 03:52.01 | Callipygous | that is the stupidest fucking thing i have heard |
| 03:52.42 | davis_ | and why is that? |
| 03:52.52 | Callipygous | just is |
| 03:53.37 | davis_ | that is not a reason. that is the dumbness thing I have heard today. |
| 03:54.05 | fluffy_wolf | lol |
| 03:55.41 | Callipygous | hah |
| 03:55.43 | davis_ | when writing the partition table with pearpc, it just sits there after it says "The partition map has been save successfully!" |
| 03:56.27 | davis_ | if I hit ctrl-c, it will go back to the debian installer menu, but it will say no swap partition has been detected. |
| 03:57.11 | davis_ | when I go back to the partition program, it prints the partition table with a Linux swap entry. |
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| 05:13.18 | luther_driggers | general question: does airport (for ibook) work w/ debian. I've read a bit, it's unclear |
| 05:16.19 | Callipygous | last time i checked... airport worked with linux |
| 05:16.22 | Callipygous | but airport extreme didn't |
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| 05:32.46 | luther_driggers | oh. can i expect support for it pretty soon? i'm about to buy an ibook and i think AP Ex is standard |
| 05:33.34 | Curalton | ap extreme - totally no go |
| 05:33.37 | demon_ | airport extreme is, for the foreseeable future, going to continue not working |
| 05:33.38 | Curalton | normal airport owrks |
| 05:34.02 | demon_ | since broadcom isn't interested in providing docs to allow open source drivers to be written |
| 05:38.25 | Faustus | I think it would probibly be better to get the mol people to assist in forcing OS X to work as a router to gnu-linux's eth0, rather or alongside of the reverse engineering effort |
| 05:39.41 | luther_driggers | ya, i've heard that OS X can do some stuff under linux, like operate ap extreme... but how does that work, and isn't it slow? |
| 05:39.46 | Faustus | apparently there are a few folks attemting this, but their effort needs to be collectivised. Mol website makes no mention of this possibility. |
| 05:40.45 | Faustus | AFAIK, it doesn't work yet. And it would necessarly be slow, if you have enough ram, because mol rus at native speed. |
| 05:40.49 | demon_ | OS X can't talk directly to the airport extreme card |
| 05:41.03 | demon_ | at least, not currently |
| 05:41.18 | demon_ | there's not currently a way to proxy a PCI device into MoL |
| 05:41.22 | Faustus | well, these are all theoretical models at the moment. |
| 05:41.33 | Faustus | k |
| 05:41.51 | demon_ | someone could probably make it work... I guess |
| 05:41.52 | pahartik | luther_driggers: another possibility is to remove Airport Extreme adapter and sell it to someone who does not mind about not having open-source drivers |
| 05:42.10 | Faustus | lol |
| 05:42.54 | Faustus | thought about it, and etting a usb donggle. Do these work under linux? I hear they are/ or some were proprietary. |
| 05:43.21 | pahartik | luther_driggers: (that is exactly what i did...) and i use built-in Bluetooth instead |
| 05:43.46 | luther_driggers | i haven't bought the ibook yet - i'm more than willing to get it with ap regular. i'm looking that up now |
| 05:44.07 | demon_ | there are several USB 802.11b/g adapters that do work in Linux |
| 05:44.43 | pahartik | luther_driggers: it was not possible to get iBook G4 without Airport Extreme adapter... this was about three months ago |
| 05:44.54 | Faustus | but do anyof them work in both OS X and linux right now? |
| 05:45.22 | pahartik | luther_driggers: i know that it was optional about nine months ago |
| 05:46.20 | luther_driggers | ic... maybe you could get it changed at the cost of another card... what about blue tooth? does that communicate w/ routers? |
| 05:46.50 | luther_driggers | how do i do red so we can differentiate conversations |
| 05:47.50 | pahartik | luther_driggers: Bluetooth adapter communicates with other Bluetooth devices, including access points... not 802.11 devices |
| 05:49.00 | pahartik | luther_driggers: red what? |
| 05:50.31 | luther_driggers | how do i get red text like yours |
| 05:51.34 | fluffy_wolf | luther_driggers: like this? |
| 05:51.46 | Faustus | I see no red |
| 05:52.01 | Faustus | goto prefs and select solor of choice |
| 05:52.02 | luther_driggers | fluffy: yes. feels like u r taunting me |
| 05:52.10 | fluffy_wolf | I'm guessing his client turns red any sentance with his nick in it |
| 05:52.24 | Faustus | yesm he's picking a fight:) |
| 05:52.25 | luther_driggers | red? |
| 05:52.28 | luther_driggers | dang |
| 05:52.40 | fluffy_wolf | luther_driggers: your client is helping you by highlighting lines that mention your nick |
| 05:52.50 | pahartik | luther_driggers: i do not have any "red text", mostly anyone with colour display may use client that renders different things in various colours, based on defined rules and personal preferences |
| 05:52.56 | luther_driggers | oh. haha! |
| 05:53.46 | fluffy_wolf | that way if you're only vaguely watching a channel, you can quickly see if someone said something to you |
| 05:54.17 | Sam-I-Am | uhhh heh |
| 05:54.49 | fluffy_wolf | ? |
| 05:54.54 | Sam-I-Am | sup |
| 05:55.31 | fluffy_wolf | tired |
| 05:55.35 | Sam-I-Am | me too |
| 05:55.59 | fluffy_wolf | have two dishes to install tomorrow, one 30 miles south of here, then one 30 miles north of here, for a total of 120 miles of driving to make not much money... |
| 05:56.25 | Sam-I-Am | lovely |
| 05:56.36 | Sam-I-Am | wanna install a dish down here? thats about 2000 miles of driving |
| 05:57.24 | fluffy_wolf | sure. pay me gas, hotel, food, and $10/hour of driving.... |
| 05:57.30 | Sam-I-Am | haha |
| 05:57.34 | Sam-I-Am | sure, checks in the mail :P |
| 05:57.48 | fluffy_wolf | and I expect payment in advance. and I will wait for the check to clear. :P |
| 06:00.11 | Sam-I-Am | heh |
| 06:01.22 | fluffy_wolf | and I will not accept promised checks from relatives of dead nigerian diplomats. :P |
| 06:01.31 | Sam-I-Am | awww dammit |
| 06:01.35 | Sam-I-Am | stop reading my mind |
| 06:01.44 | Sam-I-Am | wait.. |
| 06:01.52 | Sam-I-Am | i'll direct deposit the money... whats your acct #? |
| 06:02.18 | fluffy_wolf | lol |
| 06:03.06 | Sam-I-Am | a deceased nigerian diplomat needs satellite tv |
| 06:03.19 | fluffy_wolf | lol |
| 06:03.41 | Sam-I-Am | ewwww |
| 06:03.52 | Sam-I-Am | i used to admin a numa box |
| 06:05.01 | fluffy_wolf | Snarfing sounds like the best way to go for my design, combined with the backplane keepign a directory of what is cached where, so the switched bus isn't tied up sending data to cpus that aren't listening... |
| 06:06.14 | fluffy_wolf | since I'm thinking of 512MB of L3/L4 cache, cache consistency becomes annoying... |
| 06:08.48 | Sam-I-Am | heh |
| 06:09.00 | fluffy_wolf | what box did you admin? |
| 06:09.53 | Sam-I-Am | haha |
| 06:10.02 | Sam-I-Am | i admined an sgi onyx 3000 |
| 06:10.59 | fluffy_wolf | I invented out-of-order execution. a little late, but I'm still proud of it. :P |
| 06:11.09 | Sam-I-Am | haha |
| 06:11.20 | Sam-I-Am | ever mess with duff's device? |
| 06:11.42 | fluffy_wolf | actually, I still disagree with the way multiple cores are being implemented by amd/intel, but oh well. |
| 06:11.51 | Sam-I-Am | i disagree with x86 |
| 06:12.11 | fluffy_wolf | of course. I've used duff's device as an example to my students. :) |
| 06:12.41 | Sam-I-Am | its neat to use it to see how different compilers optimize. its also good at figuring out pipeline length |
| 06:13.23 | fluffy_wolf | heh |
| 06:14.08 | fluffy_wolf | part of the class I taught included learning assembly language... I gave a number of examples of how C was converted to asm. towards the end I always put up duff's device, just to see the faces people made looking at the C code. :) |
| 06:14.24 | Sam-I-Am | haha yeah its screwy stuff |
| 06:14.43 | Sam-I-Am | i remember looking at it going ??????? then about four hours later i had this dawning.. like DING... thats how it works |
| 06:14.59 | Sam-I-Am | i like to show it to programmer friends... they all have the same "awakening" |
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| 06:15.37 | fluffy_wolf | the other one I'd always put up was switch (x) {case 1: printf("1"); if(0) {case 2: printf("2"); if (0) {case 3: printf("3");}}} |
| 06:16.20 | fluffy_wolf | or switch (x) {case 1: printf("1"); if(0) {printf("7"); case 2: printf("2"); if (0) {printf("9"); case 3: printf("3");}}} |
| 06:16.50 | Sam-I-Am | heh |
| 06:17.24 | fluffy_wolf | which is another example of using a switch to branch into the middle of another structure |
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| 06:17.55 | Sam-I-Am | c definitely allows strange ways of using things |
| 06:18.06 | fluffy_wolf | a compiler should likely generate the same code as if the non-dead printfs were followed by a break. |
| 06:18.13 | Sam-I-Am | just like you can do polymorphism and objects in regular C if you want to |
| 06:18.36 | fluffy_wolf | pointers to functions are fun. :) |
| 06:18.53 | Sam-I-Am | yes! |
| 06:19.07 | Sam-I-Am | and they always annoyed the hell out of my programming 'teachers' |
| 06:19.12 | Sam-I-Am | i had great fun with them |
| 06:19.23 | fluffy_wolf | I've a number of times done branching by having a hash table of function pointers |
| 06:19.44 | fluffy_wolf | such as calling a function based on a text string |
| 06:20.05 | Sam-I-Am | heh |
| 06:20.07 | fluffy_wolf | especially efficient if you have a perfect hash function |
| 06:20.23 | Sam-I-Am | c is nice because most everything will compile... might do something weird... but it'll compile |
| 06:20.29 | fluffy_wolf | lol |
| 06:20.40 | fluffy_wolf | try adding one to a function pointer and see what the program does. :) |
| 06:20.51 | Sam-I-Am | i remember coding back in the dos days and accidentally hitting the video ram... |
| 06:21.26 | Sam-I-Am | then i found it was a good way to debug values |
| 06:21.34 | fluffy_wolf | you normally can't branch into a function... but you can do some seriously funky things with function pointers. |
| 06:21.44 | Sam-I-Am | heh |
| 06:22.00 | fluffy_wolf | such as quite happily jump into the middle of another function. :) |
| 06:22.23 | Sam-I-Am | heh |
| 06:23.21 | fluffy_wolf | mmmm, tail recursion... |
| 06:23.21 | fluffy_wolf | and tail calls |
| 06:23.21 | fluffy_wolf | saves stack frames. :P |
| 06:23.45 | Sam-I-Am | i smell a C nerd |
| 06:23.59 | Sam-I-Am | i was pretty good at C a few years back, but i havent programmed much lately |
| 06:24.12 | Sam-I-Am | i like programming obscure assembly in tiny spaces heh |
| 06:25.12 | fluffy_wolf | I spent way too much time coming up with clever examples to hurt my student's brains. :) |
| 06:25.16 | Sam-I-Am | haha |
| 06:25.22 | fluffy_wolf | the things you can do with HC11 assembly... |
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| 06:25.30 | Sam-I-Am | i was lightyears ahead of my programming teachers |
| 06:25.35 | Sam-I-Am | which is why they hated me |
| 06:25.44 | fluffy_wolf | heh. should have taken my class. :P |
| 06:26.22 | Sam-I-Am | heh |
| 06:26.35 | fluffy_wolf | if I know you know what you're doing, I don't care if you didn't show up or do any work... the grade is supposed to reflect how much you know, not how much you did. |
| 06:26.37 | Sam-I-Am | my teachers just got pissed when they couldnt understand what i wrote, but it worked |
| 06:26.56 | fluffy_wolf | I remember back in college getting yelled at for doing too much on some of the assignments. :) |
| 06:27.00 | Sam-I-Am | its like "you freed that memory.. how the hell did you recall a value from it?" |
| 06:28.47 | fluffy_wolf | I had some fun algorithms classes back in the day... I remember one assignment was a trivial program to add, subtract, multiply, and divide polynomials. somehow, the one I turned in also factored, found roots of, solved, evaluated, and about 50 other things. I think the professor gave me a 300% on it or something... |
| 06:29.03 | Sam-I-Am | hahh |
| 06:29.06 | fluffy_wolf | actually, I don't think division was required either. |
| 06:29.24 | Sam-I-Am | i wrote a shell sort in something like 110 bytes of ram |
| 06:29.27 | fluffy_wolf | that class was a lot of work... the final assignment was to write a BASIC interpreter. |
| 06:29.29 | Sam-I-Am | in hc11 |
| 06:29.37 | Sam-I-Am | ew |
| 06:29.42 | Sam-I-Am | i've done compilers before |
| 06:29.45 | Sam-I-Am | grrooosss |
| 06:30.04 | fluffy_wolf | I implemented BASIC that allowed most C syntax... and made some really fun basic programs, for example using the ?: operator. :) |
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| 06:30.17 | Sam-I-Am | heh, people tend to hate the ? |
| 06:30.37 | fluffy_wolf | I never got a grade for it... he simply wrote that if I ever needed a letter of reccomendation, I knew to ask. |
| 06:30.37 | Sam-I-Am | which is why it deserves liberal use |
| 06:30.44 | Sam-I-Am | haha |
| 06:30.58 | fluffy_wolf | I allowed run-time definition of new operators |
| 06:31.07 | fluffy_wolf | operations with any number of operands |
| 06:31.18 | fluffy_wolf | so you could define a $%^#! operator if you wanted to |
| 06:31.28 | Sam-I-Am | mmmm |
| 06:31.42 | fluffy_wolf | i.e. c = x$y%z^a#!b |
| 06:32.07 | *** join/#debianppc driggers (~alejo@S010600080d84f13a.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 06:32.09 | fluffy_wolf | which is how the ?: operator was implemented |
| 06:32.25 | fluffy_wolf | I like programming language design... I still plan on finishing mine at some point. |
| 06:32.31 | Sam-I-Am | heh |
| 06:32.36 | Sam-I-Am | is it called furry? |
| 06:32.46 | fluffy_wolf | I've been playing with a language with rather odd OO semantics |
| 06:33.05 | fluffy_wolf | I haven't named it. |
| 06:33.16 | fluffy_wolf | although Fur++ does sound good. :P |
| 06:33.28 | fluffy_wolf | except them people would call it F |
| 06:33.29 | Sam-I-Am | heh |
| 06:33.48 | Sam-I-Am | then microsoft would come out with f-sharp, and we'd all call it g-flat |
| 06:33.50 | fluffy_wolf | the language has a database as part of the syntax of the language |
| 06:33.56 | fluffy_wolf | LOL |
| 06:34.38 | Sam-I-Am | heh |
| 06:34.40 | fluffy_wolf | the language also allows (and strongly encourages) self-modifying code |
| 06:34.58 | Sam-I-Am | i remember writing self-modifying hc11 assembly |
| 06:35.09 | Sam-I-Am | couldnt do it on the cop8 - it was harvard arch |
| 06:35.15 | fluffy_wolf | I've done self-modifying code in both hc11 and mips... mips, being risc, is a lot cleaner. |
| 06:36.05 | fluffy_wolf | the hardest part of the language, and the part I'm not done thinking about yet, is the security model. |
| 06:36.21 | fluffy_wolf | one of the primary asumptions is that parts of the program, sharing memory, are not trusted |
| 06:36.27 | Sam-I-Am | just release it without one - then microsoft will use it to create the next version of windows and you'll be rich |
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| 06:37.40 | fluffy_wolf | for example, say an application allows users to write macros, and implements them through the trivial self-modifying features. the security model can still only allow the running code to call certain functions, etc. |
| 06:39.08 | Sam-I-Am | mmmm |
| 06:39.23 | fluffy_wolf | the most basic access restrictions, that I've designed so far, are the concept of an ownership chain, where an object has full control of any objects which have it in their ownership chain, and friends, which allow one object to grant permission to another object to call its functions |
| 06:39.41 | Sam-I-Am | interesting |
| 06:40.19 | fluffy_wolf | for example, if foo creates an object bar, bar would have foo in its ownership change, and be able to destory it, etc. bar would have no access to foo whatsoever. if foo wanted to let bar call a function, it would have to give it permission to do so ahead of time. |
| 06:40.58 | fluffy_wolf | if there was a third object, qux, that was the parent of foo, it would also have control of bar through the chain created. |
| 06:41.17 | Sam-I-Am | mmm, metasyntactical variables |
| 06:41.26 | fluffy_wolf | fnord! :P |
| 06:41.55 | fluffy_wolf | I also started designing an application in this language, one I felt was most suited to it... a MUCK. |
| 06:42.26 | Sam-I-Am | muck eh |
| 06:42.56 | fluffy_wolf | remember when I said a database was part of the syntax of the language? |
| 06:43.04 | fluffy_wolf | well, semantics, at least |
| 06:43.38 | fluffy_wolf | objects declared static are automagically saved |
| 06:44.03 | fluffy_wolf | so if I had a static foo, accessing foo.xyzzy would create a database entry for it |
| 06:44.14 | Sam-I-Am | w00 |
| 06:45.00 | fluffy_wolf | and indirect access is allowed... so xyzzy = "homer"; foo.$xyzzy = "bald"; would create an entry for foo.homer.... |
| 06:45.47 | fluffy_wolf | one can also access entire objects indirectly, although that part of the semantics I've only half figured out... indirectly through a pointer is easy, but by name I don't think is possible. |
| 06:46.07 | fluffy_wolf | since scopes are HIGHLY local. |
| 06:46.47 | fluffy_wolf | namespace declerations are going to be common |
| 06:47.59 | fluffy_wolf | and then we get into threading. :) |
| 06:48.07 | Sam-I-Am | heh |
| 06:48.09 | Sam-I-Am | thats fun |
| 06:48.32 | Sam-I-Am | i'm going to create a sleep mutex |
| 06:48.52 | fluffy_wolf | and, of course, classes can be created at runtime... you can create a class, then create a derived class from it, all at runtime rather than compiletime. |
| 06:48.52 | fluffy_wolf | lol |
| 06:48.53 | fluffy_wolf | cyas |
| 06:49.00 | Sam-I-Am | laters |
| 06:49.05 | Sam-I-Am | i like sleep heh |
| 06:49.06 | Sam-I-Am | zzzz |
| 06:49.17 | fluffy_wolf | so you get the interesting problem of trying to have derived classes of things that no longer exist, etc. :) |
| 06:49.23 | Sam-I-Am | ehhh |
| 06:49.24 | Sam-I-Am | heh |
| 06:49.25 | Sam-I-Am | zz |
| 06:49.33 | fluffy_wolf | makes brain hurt. fun! :P |
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| 07:17.38 | fluffy_wolf | bbl, sleep |
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| 07:45.54 | r3dw0rm | is there a mirror for ftp://ftp.linuxppc.org ?? |
| 08:04.52 | r3dw0rm | or does someone know where I can find an Xpmac binary? |
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| 08:26.51 | benh | is it expected that any KDE app just segfaults on ppc ? |
| 08:27.01 | benh | (k3b, rosegarden4, ...) |
| 08:27.13 | benh | been like that for a while as far as I can tell |
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| 11:44.38 | Callipygous | yo |
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| 17:28.02 | Petro | Is it possible to use a music system connected to Airport Express from a Debian box? I've checked out daapd but apparently that's only comp-to-comp |
| 17:33.20 | Curalton | Express == No Go, blame Broadcom/Apple |
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| 17:34.25 | Bor_Ed | Curalton, express, not extreme |
| 17:35.03 | Curalton | ah, heh, right :) |
| 17:35.39 | Bor_Ed | afaik, express is some itunes streaming thingy... though can't get the app that supports itunes to my mind right now |
| 17:51.24 | karim | gaim segfaults |
| 17:51.36 | karim | anyone noticed this ? |
| 18:07.04 | ari | karim: there's a bug open about it |
| 18:07.25 | ari | you can help debug if you want |
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| 18:13.56 | pahartik | has anyone else noticed that "xgnokii" does not run since most recent update to one of "libglib1.2", "libgnokii2" or "gnokii"? |
| 18:14.06 | karim | ari, hum no sorry :) |
| 18:14.12 | pahartik | ...that happened some weeks ago... |
| 18:14.22 | karim | I have a maxtor apple disk |
| 18:14.35 | karim | what are the jumpers switch ? |
| 18:14.40 | demon_ | gaim does? just the latest package? I've still got 1.1.2 running... though my packages on my machine here may have updated |
| 18:14.55 | demon_ | or not |
| 18:15.17 | pahartik | when trying to start, it says "GLib-ERROR **: could not allocate -2147483375 bytes" |
| 18:15.22 | demon_ | hah |
| 18:15.23 | demon_ | nice |
| 18:20.06 | ari | demon_: apparently it started in 1.1.3 |
| 18:20.27 | demon_ | well, then I think I'll put a hold on my gaim packages while I still can |
| 18:26.09 | simonrvn | ari: do you still need help debugging it? |
| 18:26.20 | ari | possible |
| 18:26.26 | ari | er, the default gcc on ppc is 3.4? |
| 18:26.36 | simonrvn | 3.3 |
| 18:26.44 | simonrvn | 3.4 is available, of course |
| 18:26.46 | demon_ | I have 3.3.5 here |
| 18:26.50 | nusse | is darwin complete opensource? |
| 18:27.12 | simonrvn | #opendarwin |
| 18:27.37 | ari | ok this is just weird |
| 18:27.54 | nusse | i just had that idea, if darwin is free, it might be a good informationpool for hardware drivers... |
| 18:27.59 | simonrvn | lemme guess, it runs ok if built with 3.4, but not 3.3 ;p |
| 18:28.29 | pahartik | simonrvn: "xgnokii" or "gaim"? |
| 18:28.34 | simonrvn | gaim |
| 18:28.38 | demon_ | nusse: well, there's a few useful bits in it |
| 18:28.56 | demon_ | but many of the hardware drivers that Linux/PPC developers really need are in binary only drivers |
| 18:29.05 | ari | simonrvn: that's what it's looking like |
| 18:29.13 | ari | i have no idea how this guy got gcc 3.4 as the default though |
| 18:29.14 | nusse | demon_: uuh, lame |
| 18:29.15 | simonrvn | hehe |
| 18:29.41 | simonrvn | remove 3.3, have 3.4 installed, done |
| 18:29.51 | ari | simonrvn: ah. |
| 18:29.56 | demon_ | simonrvn: er, no, I don't think so |
| 18:30.06 | nusse | demon_: im always wondering why osx has such a big accepting |
| 18:30.13 | simonrvn | demon_: why not? |
| 18:30.26 | ari | er wtf, it is 3.3 |
| 18:30.29 | ari | but it's working with -O0 |
| 18:30.33 | demon_ | the 'gcc' and 'g++' and 'gobjc' virtual packages make the links to the "official" compilers |
| 18:30.41 | simonrvn | ok |
| 18:30.46 | simonrvn | my bad :) |
| 18:30.55 | ari | augh |
| 18:30.58 | demon_ | the gcc-3.4, g++-3.4 and gobjc-3.4 packages only add the binaries of those names |
| 18:30.59 | ari | he has gcc 3.4 installed in /usr/local/bin |
| 18:31.03 | demon_ | haha |
| 18:31.25 | simonrvn | ugh |
| 18:31.25 | demon_ | I love when people do that :p |
| 18:31.27 | ari | can someone try building gaim with DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="noopt nostrip" and see if it works |
| 18:31.32 | ari | with actual gcc 3.3 |
| 18:32.13 | simonrvn | i'll do it, i need a break from trying to debug mailman... |
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| 18:32.45 | ari | maybe i'll just have to build gaim with gcc 3.4... wtf |
| 18:33.52 | demon_ | did the package maintainer upload his own local built packages, instead of letting the autobuilders do their jobs? |
| 18:35.01 | ari | no |
| 18:35.14 | ari | this is someone building the package himself |
| 18:35.30 | ari | and package maintainers DO have to upload a local built package |
| 18:36.09 | demon_ | uh... no, they don't |
| 18:36.18 | ari | ... |
| 18:36.19 | demon_ | just the source package |
| 18:36.31 | demon_ | that's what the autobuilders are there for |
| 18:36.32 | ari | demon_: try uploading a source package, see what happens |
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| 18:47.54 | ari | how's that build of gaim coming? |
| 18:48.15 | simonrvn | forgot to fetch the build-deps... |
| 18:55.30 | simonrvn | fyi, -g -Wall -O0 -Wall -g3 |
| 18:55.55 | ari | ok |
| 18:58.01 | simonrvn | for insurance, i put the build opts both in debian/rules and in the environment |
| 18:58.23 | ari | noopt should be fine |
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| 19:16.35 | simonrvn | ok, done |
| 19:17.43 | simonrvn | ari: should i just finish the build to get a deb or build is fine? |
| 19:18.07 | ari | you might as well build a deb and install it |
| 19:18.35 | simonrvn | ok |
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| 19:23.40 | simonrvn | wtf does it want to run ./configure again? HI#UHR)(!G##wr |
| 19:24.11 | ari | because their autotools suck |
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| 19:33.55 | simonrvn | almost done |
| 19:34.06 | simonrvn | dh_installlogrotate -pgaim-data |
| 19:34.59 | ari | are you running it on a 604 ;) |
| 19:35.13 | simonrvn | g3 300 that's busy all the time |
| 19:35.23 | ari | ah |
| 19:37.48 | demon_ | just did my own local build as well |
| 19:37.58 | demon_ | it finished a bit ago |
| 19:38.24 | ari | does it run |
| 19:38.36 | demon_ | I'm installing the packages now.. I'll let you know in a sec |
| 19:38.40 | ari | ok |
| 19:38.52 | ari | and since i'm assuming it won't run, does it give a useful backtrace |
| 19:38.56 | simonrvn | WTF DID IT STRIP IT!? |
| 19:39.05 | ari | dh_strip doesn't actually strip it |
| 19:39.08 | ari | if you have nostrip set |
| 19:39.50 | demon_ | Gaim has segfaulted and attempted to dump a core file. |
| 19:39.50 | demon_ | This is a bug in the software and has happened through |
| 19:39.50 | demon_ | no fault of your own. |
| 19:39.54 | simonrvn | checked in debian/gaim/usr/bin and ran file on it |
| 19:40.03 | ari | demon_: ok, get a backtrace on the core |
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| 19:40.12 | simonrvn | the unstripped one is 21 MB (!) |
| 19:40.41 | demon_ | it didn't leave a core |
| 19:41.01 | ari | run it under gdb then |
| 19:41.46 | demon_ | #0 0x0fbb6ce0 in pthread_mutex_lock () from /lib/libpthread.so.0 |
| 19:41.46 | demon_ | #1 0x0f75e384 in g_main_depth () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0 |
| 19:41.46 | demon_ | #2 0x0f75f848 in g_main_context_dispatch () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0 |
| 19:41.46 | demon_ | #3 0x0f75f848 in g_main_context_dispatch () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0 |
| 19:41.46 | demon_ | #4 0x0f75f848 in g_main_context_dispatch () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0 |
| 19:41.47 | demon_ | #5 0x0f75f848 in g_main_context_dispatch () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0 |
| 19:41.49 | demon_ | #6 0x0f75f848 in g_main_context_dispatch () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0 |
| 19:41.51 | demon_ | #7 0x0f75f848 in g_main_context_dispatch () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0 |
| 19:41.51 | ari | erm |
| 19:41.53 | demon_ | #8 0x0f75f848 in g_main_context_dispatch () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0 |
| 19:41.55 | demon_ | Previous frame inner to this frame (corrupt stack?) |
| 19:41.56 | ari | you might want to nopaste that |
| 19:42.01 | ari | but it looks like you're getting the same thing |
| 19:42.10 | ari | demon_: you built it with DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="nostrip noopt"? |
| 19:42.17 | demon_ | no |
| 19:42.25 | ari | .. then what was the point of building it |
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| 19:43.17 | simonrvn | blam, here too |
| 19:43.31 | ari | simonrvn: ok, so do you get a better backtrace |
| 19:43.36 | Seibol | got a n00b to PPC linux here. |
| 19:43.57 | Seibol | can I ask questions in here? Dual boot questions? |
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| 19:44.22 | simonrvn | @ask to ask |
| 19:44.23 | ravenbird | Don't ask to ask. Don't ask if anybody can help you with x. Just ask! A Brief summary of your problem is enough. Be Specific, Informative, Concise, and Complete On-topic about the problem. If nobody answers then we don't know or are busy for a few minutes. Wait and don't bug us. If you must ask again wait until new people have joined the channel. |
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| 19:46.45 | Seibol | I have two hard drives, one had OSX Panther on it, the second I installed DebianPPC (sarge) on it. How do I reconfigure yaboot in order to reach my OSX again? |
| 19:47.17 | demon_ | Seibol: did you read the yaboot.conf manpage, including the stuff about having it boot OS X? |
| 19:47.59 | demon_ | also, if you have a newworld system newer than the G3 B&W tower, you always have the boot selector.. you can reach it by holding the Option key at boot |
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| 19:48.27 | Seibol | New world |
| 19:48.34 | Seibol | G3 blue/white |
| 19:48.50 | Seibol | option key huh |
| 19:48.52 | Seibol | lemme look |
| 19:49.01 | Seibol | yes I read the man page, couldn't make sense of it |
| 19:49.08 | demon_ | if you have the G3 blue&white tower, it won't work |
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| 19:49.29 | Bor_Ed | b&w is newworld ... |
| 19:49.42 | demon_ | yes, but it doesn't have the Option boot selector in its OF ROM |
| 19:49.48 | Bor_Ed | ahh |
| 19:49.59 | demon_ | it's one of the few newworld systems that doesn't |
| 19:50.06 | Bor_Ed | hmm, could osx be booted from OF with 'bye' command ? |
| 19:50.12 | demon_ | that and a few of the very early round iBooks |
| 19:50.24 | Seibol | yeah that didn' work |
| 19:50.33 | demon_ | I'm pretty sure that'll just boot whatever is indicated by the boot-device variable |
| 19:50.44 | simonrvn | ari: it stripped it even though i told it not to (or i thought i did).... |
| 19:50.55 | Bor_Ed | doesn't bye boot with apple rom and boot with boot-device ? |
| 19:51.17 | simonrvn | bye goes to mock os |
| 19:51.21 | demon_ | Seibol: then you need to add a line with 'macosx=[device path]' to your /etc/yaboot.conf, and run 'ybin' |
| 19:51.41 | Seibol | and then ybin |
| 19:51.51 | ari | simonrvn: well, just try running the generated binary in the source trree |
| 19:51.52 | Seibol | where should I add the line |
| 19:51.53 | demon_ | Bor_Ed: well, remember there's no "MacOS ROM" in the ROM of a newworld system |
| 19:51.53 | Seibol | anywhere? |
| 19:52.02 | demon_ | Seibol: preferably near the top |
| 19:52.11 | Seibol | 10-4 |
| 19:52.11 | simonrvn | well, it does,t crash, except when i try to close the "sign on" window forcefully (close box on the window's border) |
| 19:52.25 | Bor_Ed | demon_, well, I don't have newworld boxes here, it was just a hunch |
| 19:52.36 | Seibol | I tried entering something but I didn't run ybin |
| 19:52.50 | simonrvn | doing |
| 19:53.11 | demon_ | Seibol: running 'ybin' reinstalls yaboot and its config file into the bootstrap partition... changes to it won't take effect until that's been done |
| 19:54.04 | Seibol | got it |
| 19:54.27 | Seibol | ide drive should be /dev/hda? |
| 19:54.42 | demon_ | yes |
| 19:55.03 | demon_ | the device path should contain the device for the partition that contains your OS X filesystem |
| 19:55.14 | Seibol | does ppc start with 0 as first partition? |
| 19:55.20 | demon_ | er |
| 19:55.34 | demon_ | oh, wait... that'd be the OF device path, actually |
| 19:55.48 | Seibol | hda0? |
| 19:55.51 | Seibol | or just hda |
| 19:55.52 | demon_ | so hd:N, or ultra[01]:n |
| 19:56.37 | demon_ | which of the two drives contains your OS X filesystem? and is it plugged into the same IDE bus as the other drive? |
| 19:57.00 | Seibol | yes |
| 19:57.04 | Seibol | one is a slave |
| 19:57.07 | Seibol | debian is on the slave |
| 19:57.11 | demon_ | ok |
| 19:57.15 | demon_ | so hd:N |
| 19:57.26 | demon_ | where N == the partition number that contains the OS X filesystem |
| 19:57.41 | Seibol | I guess 1 |
| 19:57.49 | demon_ | no |
| 19:57.52 | Seibol | I am new to the MAC front, I am a pc guy |
| 19:57.53 | Seibol | 0? |
| 19:57.57 | demon_ | 1 is the partition that contains the partition table |
| 19:58.14 | demon_ | do 'fdisk -l /dev/hda' in linux |
| 19:58.29 | demon_ | and look and see which one is type 'Apple_HFS' |
| 19:59.37 | simonrvn | mac-fdisk -l /dev/hda he'll have better luck |
| 20:00.12 | demon_ | fdisk points to mac-fdisk on all the debian/ppc installs I've ever done |
| 20:00.55 | Seibol | hdd |
| 20:02.20 | Seibol | do I want the partition map or the Newworld bootblock? |
| 20:02.38 | demon_ | > and look and see which one is type 'Apple_HFS' |
| 20:03.38 | Seibol | apple_UFS |
| 20:04.09 | Seibol | dev/hdc7 |
| 20:04.53 | demon_ | ok, then yeah, I guess /dev/hdc7 would be the one to use... |
| 20:05.31 | simonrvn | seems to run ok |
| 20:05.42 | Seibol | and should I put it on the top of the file? |
| 20:05.43 | simonrvn | i just had the one SEGV |
| 20:06.06 | demon_ | Seibol: yes, that's fine |
| 20:06.20 | ari | simonrvn: erm, it runs ok? |
| 20:06.28 | simonrvn | yeh |
| 20:06.33 | ari | ugh |
| 20:07.23 | Seibol | ahh think that did it |
| 20:07.25 | Seibol | cool beans |
| 20:07.41 | Seibol | thank you everyone |
| 20:08.43 | ari | i wonder if there's a problem with one of the buildds |
| 20:09.07 | Bor_Ed | hmm, is the fan on pmac 4400 psu temp activated ? |
| 20:10.25 | hhstnoc | Bor_Ed: doubt it. is it not moving? |
| 20:10.48 | Bor_Ed | it's running, just sounds like jet engine taking off every now and then |
| 20:10.53 | hhstnoc | weird |
| 20:11.09 | hhstnoc | i ran a website off a 4400 |
| 20:11.10 | Bor_Ed | might be that bearing is just about dead |
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| 20:11.20 | Bor_Ed | I have 4400 as server here |
| 20:11.26 | hhstnoc | running Linux? |
| 20:11.34 | Bor_Ed | hellyea :) |
| 20:11.39 | hhstnoc | i never got around to putting Linux on mine, i just ran NetPresenz. silly me. |
| 20:12.26 | pahartik | Bor_Ed: is it difficult? |
| 20:12.36 | Bor_Ed | pahartik, what ? |
| 20:12.50 | hhstnoc | Bor_Ed: what do you bootstrap Linux with? BootX? |
| 20:13.27 | Bor_Ed | hhstnoc, I had quik on old 4400, this one has os 8.1 and bootx, didn't feel like hacking the nvramrc this time |
| 20:13.45 | hhstnoc | aha. |
| 20:13.46 | pahartik | Bor_Ed: do you need console on serial port to boot it? |
| 20:14.10 | Bor_Ed | pahartik, bootx currently, as I said, old worked just fine with quik... and it has working OF console too |
| 20:14.26 | Bor_Ed | pahartik, you just need to setup the input-device and output-device |
| 20:15.09 | demon_ | yeah... I have a 7500 that runs linux nicely |
| 20:15.19 | demon_ | even with the dualproc 604e CPU card |
| 20:15.40 | Bor_Ed | 4400/200 and beige g3/233 here... 8200/120 is currently 'in the middle' of something |
| 20:17.39 | pahartik | Bor_Ed: what kind of network interface? |
| 20:18.37 | Bor_Ed | on 4400 ? |
| 20:19.15 | Bor_Ed | 0000:00:0d.0 Ethernet controller: Digital Equipment Corporation DECchip 21041 [Tulip Pass 3] (rev 21) |
| 20:19.15 | Bor_Ed | 0000:00:0e.0 Ethernet controller: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] 79c978 [HomePNA] (rev 52) |
| 20:20.45 | pahartik | Bor_Ed: that DECchip 21041 adapter is on special PCI slot? |
| 20:20.56 | simonrvn | demon_: oooh, dual proc card? :) |
| 20:21.10 | Bor_Ed | pahartik, nope, standard pci nic... came with the box |
| 20:21.30 | simonrvn | is it that weird proprietary thingy from umax or something? |
| 20:22.48 | simonrvn | ari: need this thing for anything else? |
| 20:22.50 | demon_ | simonrvn: yeah |
| 20:23.36 | simonrvn | i had half of one, it's sitting in the 8500 next to me. with that strange connector on the top of it, that looks like a set of jumpers (but isn't) |
| 20:23.43 | simonrvn | s/had/have/ |
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| 20:43.27 | *** part/#debianppc KB1FYR (~Alex@196-220.suscom-maine.net) |
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| 21:23.17 | ari | simonrvn: emm i dunno, i still can't figure out why -O0 would fix the crash |
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| 21:31.21 | Q-FUNK | hm? |
| 21:32.18 | Q-FUNK | ari: optimization zero fixes the build? |
| 21:32.27 | ari | Q-FUNK: apparently |
| 21:32.37 | ari | the build works fine, it's just the running that has a problem |
| 21:33.11 | Q-FUNK | didn't I previously mention a broken compiler as a possibility? broken optimizition code. |
| 21:34.08 | Q-FUNK | it's still a weird case. might be interesting to submit it to the GCC team. |
| 21:36.59 | ari | well supposedly gcc 3.4 works fine, but i don't know for sure |
| 21:37.24 | ari | and i don't know what could have possibly changed to cause this |
| 21:39.35 | Q-FUNK | aren't we still on gcc 3.3 for Sarge though? |
| 21:40.30 | ari | yes |
| 21:40.41 | Q-FUNK | gcc 4:3.3.5-1 unstable |
| 21:41.11 | Q-FUNK | and unstable too, it seems. |
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| 21:52.14 | Piru | gcc 3.x is far from stable imo |
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| 22:12.21 | setepo | hi |
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| 22:54.23 | Q-FUNK | ari: does what I just sent to the bug help? |
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| 22:54.49 | dobby | hello is there a program like alien for debianppc? |
| 22:55.40 | Q-FUNK | apt-get install alien |
| 22:56.47 | dobby | but if i install alien, and do alien bla.rpm i get an error that its not ppc architecture! |
| 22:56.54 | Piru | eh |
| 22:57.02 | Piru | you expect it to convert from arch to another? |
| 22:57.22 | Piru | all alien does is to convert from packaking method to another |
| 22:57.37 | dobby | ok there is my mistake ;-) |
| 22:57.39 | Piru | you can't just take, say, x86 .rpm to expect alien to generate ppc .deb for you |
| 22:57.52 | Q-FUNK | dpkg-cross |
| 22:58.11 | dobby | dpkg-cross ? does it has a man page? |
| 23:00.54 | Piru | well, afaik debian requires a manpage or the package won't make it to debian |
| 23:00.58 | Piru | so you could assume it does |
| 23:01.17 | dobby | hey yes i found it thanks man ;-) |
| 23:08.15 | dobby | does someone of you guys has kde on the mac? |
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| 23:13.58 | chadkeck | anyone know if there's a way to upgrade my imac's firmware from inside linux? |
| 23:14.49 | Q-FUNK | no, you need an os x install cd. |
| 23:28.32 | ari | Q-FUNK: i don't think so |
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| 23:28.40 | ari | i don't really know where to go with the bug at this point |
| 23:32.18 | Q-FUNK | ari: doesn't it finally point to the specific line that causes the abort? |
| 23:32.41 | ari | that's not causing the abort, there's some kind of stack corruption going on |
| 23:36.32 | chadkeck | Q-FUNK: i have os 10.3 install cd's but i thought i needed os9? |
| 23:36.39 | chadkeck | for the firmware upgrade |
| 23:38.25 | karim | what is dodgeball ? |
| 23:39.07 | Q-FUNK | ari: and what could be causing it? |
| 23:39.55 | ari | gcc gremlins |
| 23:41.58 | Q-FUNK | hmm |
| 23:42.18 | chadkeck | Q-FUNK: you said i can upgrade my firmware from an OSX install disc? |
| 23:43.53 | Q-FUNK | chadkeck: afaik just booting the os x install media until the "proceed with install y/n" point is enough to perform the firmware upgrade. |
| 23:44.47 | Q-FUNK | IIRC os x itself checks that you have a sufficiently recent firmware before proceeding with install. |
| 23:45.16 | chadkeck | yea it does but it just says you need to upgrade... it DOES do something to the video buffer AFAIK |
| 23:45.31 | chadkeck | it screwed up my video but i read after i boot into os9 and upgrade firmware the video will be fine again |
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