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| 02:00.51 | [bman] | I'm looking for some help with X on a B&W mac G3. I have an ati radeon 7000. I've googled around and figured out most of the problems I had, but now it starts up X just fine, but has the square cursor like it's trying to use a software cursor (and failing), and gdm never loads. |
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| 02:19.25 | simonrvn | i have no clue sorry |
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| 07:21.48 | gobbles | simonrvn, you alive |
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| 08:45.38 | Madkiss | Hi folks. Am I right in assuming that when getting a fresh iBook, there is no way to install Debian on it without removing MacOS? |
| 08:48.41 | pahartik | Madkiss: the way i remember it... MacOS X was installed and disk space was all taken by single HFS+ filesystem... |
| 08:50.50 | Madkiss | So resizing won't work? |
| 08:52.46 | pahartik | Madkiss: i do not know which utilities exist for that... at least they are not free or open source at the moment |
| 08:54.10 | pahartik | Madkiss: it does not matter much, one can get it back to same state as "first boot" by installing from DVD that came along |
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| 09:05.08 | Madkiss | pahartik: What I wonder is whether the MacOS that is installed on the iBook by vendor is the same like the one you get when you re-install it manually |
| 09:05.21 | Madkiss | Or whether you will have to install all the additionall stuff and the like manually |
| 09:07.34 | pahartik | Madkiss: it is default install from factory... much better with custom install, one can choose not to install crap like "msie" and whatever |
| 09:08.19 | Madkiss | Wait install MSIE by default? |
| 09:08.25 | Madkiss | s/inst/they inst/ |
| 09:10.42 | pahartik | Madkiss: on Panther, Safari is default browser, but i think "msie" was installed by default |
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| 09:11.32 | al_ | (if you don't install msie you won't have about one half of the os x fonts) |
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| 09:11.49 | ioops | hi |
| 09:11.57 | Madkiss | al_: That sounds rather disturbing |
| 09:12.20 | al_ | well, you can live without :) |
| 09:12.37 | al_ | but no georgia, palatino, etc. |
| 09:12.51 | pahartik | Madkiss: i do not have MacOS X installed on iBook G4 anymore, i gave it to my brother to upgrade from Jaguar on PowerMacintosh G4 |
| 09:13.59 | Madkiss | I will keep it for now, or re-install it after re-partitioning, so that I have WLAN available even if I forgot the USB-stick. |
| 09:14.11 | pahartik | al_: i had enough fonts on MacOS X |
| 09:15.29 | al_ | oh, msie is also useful when someone says "can you test my website's layout in mac ie 5.2 ?" |
| 09:16.15 | Madkiss | Is it right that Apple computers use a disk scheme comparable to BSD? With partitions and slices? |
| 09:17.54 | pahartik | al_: "test it yourself" |
| 09:18.15 | al_ | :) |
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| 09:26.15 | pahartik | al_: if document is well-formed XML, valid XHTML, does not contain any top ~5 common mistakes like fixed font sizes in CSS or using elements for what they were not meant for... it is good to go |
| 09:27.21 | al_ | hm |
| 09:27.26 | al_ | you don't know msie ? :/ |
| 09:28.58 | pahartik | al_: i know enough to not touch |
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| 09:39.55 | pahartik | al_: should i really care about tuning documents for some browser that is quite unpredictable and encourages doing stupidities? |
| 09:42.13 | al_ | pahartik, i am a already an integrist of web standards, and i don't care too much about msie :) |
| 09:42.54 | al_ | but if my css work in ie6 win and ie5 mac too, that's cool. |
| 09:42.57 | pahartik | al_: very good |
| 09:46.09 | simonrvn | ie you have to work around bugs in them... i don't bother. if it look like crap in those, tough shit |
| 09:46.36 | simonrvn | not my problem |
| 09:48.47 | Madkiss | oh, hello simonrvn |
| 09:48.55 | simonrvn | hi |
| 09:58.53 | liiwi | good morning |
| 09:59.07 | simonrvn | hi |
| 10:02.36 | Madkiss | liiwi! :) |
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| 13:04.18 | Madkiss | When using XFree on an iBook, what do you do to get a second mouse key, apart from conneting a mouse? |
| 13:05.07 | al_ | <flood> |
| 13:05.09 | al_ | Section "InputDevice" |
| 13:05.09 | al_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:05.09 | al_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:05.09 | al_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:05.10 | pahartik | Madkiss: i use <F11> and <F12> for second and third mouse button |
| 13:05.12 | al_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:05.14 | al_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:05.17 | al_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:05.19 | al_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:05.22 | al_ | EndSection |
| 13:05.24 | al_ | oh |
| 13:05.28 | al_ | i missed the word "key". |
| 13:07.31 | Madkiss | Thanks |
| 13:08.00 | al_ | Madkiss, you have to change some settings with sysctl |
| 13:08.16 | al_ | dev/mac_hid/mouse_button_emulation=1 |
| 13:08.16 | al_ | dev/mac_hid/mouse_button2_keycode=68 |
| 13:08.16 | al_ | dev/mac_hid/mouse_button3_keycode=87 |
| 13:09.06 | Madkiss | ah, right, thanks. Well, I guess I will get a BT-mouse, then. |
| 13:10.07 | pahartik | Madkiss: Bluetooth is good |
| 13:12.19 | Madkiss | I know, that is why I ordered my iBook with it. |
| 13:19.20 | pahartik | Madkiss: i have been looking for Bluetooth access point but... they are somewhat expensive and i have only seen two devices being available |
| 13:21.01 | Madkiss | Could I use a Microsoft Bluetooth Mouse with the iBook? The page claims that it has a "Bluetooth transceiver", but shouldn't bluetooth be blueooth? ;) |
| 13:22.01 | pahartik | Madkiss: makes me want to think of getting Mac mini instead and use it as Bluetooth access point... |
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| 15:02.35 | odlx | whats IRQ 48 on an imac |
| 15:02.46 | odlx | 400er G3 imac se from '99 |
| 15:03.03 | odlx | irq 48: nobody cared! |
| 15:03.12 | odlx | <call trace> .. |
| 15:03.13 | odlx | Disabling IRQ #48 |
| 15:03.18 | odlx | by the kernel |
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| 15:10.32 | odlx | might the ati card be irq 48? |
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| 15:23.01 | Exasparilla | (This may not be a Debian problem) - I'm running Debian unstable on a clamshell iBook. The software clock has always ran about 10% slow. Recently, everything started running at about half speed. Even "sleep 10" takes 20 seconds! Does this sound like a hardware problem? |
| 15:34.30 | Oryn | Exasparilla: ether that or a kernel bug |
| 15:37.04 | Exasparilla | k |
| 15:39.07 | pahartik | Exasparilla: does it happen with any kernel version you try? |
| 15:40.11 | Exasparilla | lemme check - i've got some live cds lying around |
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| 15:49.48 | Exasparilla | well, shite. It happens on a gentoo livecd too |
| 15:50.33 | Exasparilla | so that's 2.6.5 and 2.6.8 |
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| 15:59.48 | Exasparilla | and 2.6.7 |
| 16:00.03 | Exasparilla | both debian kernel versions and an gentoo livecd |
| 16:00.25 | pahartik | Exasparilla: damn that |
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| 16:14.07 | snooo | is there a rescue ram disk or disk image to use if linux refuses to start? |
| 16:14.35 | snooo | i attempted to upgrade from woody to sarge but the mac crashed half way |
| 16:14.52 | grivell | Debian Sarge netiso should work |
| 16:15.05 | grivell | apt, d-i |
| 16:15.07 | apt | i heard d-i is Debian-Installer The Debian-Installer is the replacement for the aging "boot-floppies" installation system used in all previous versions of debian. The Debian Installer will be the installer for future versions of Debian, beginning with sarge. It has been designed to be more modular, easier to use, and more extensible than the old installation ... |
| 16:19.15 | snooo | would i be able to assert /dev/hd8 as root and continue with the upgrade? |
| 16:19.39 | grivell | Not sure, never had that problem. |
| 16:19.47 | grivell | I would say, probably. |
| 16:19.53 | grivell | root=/dev/hdc8 |
| 16:20.25 | snooo | my problem is |
| 16:20.46 | snooo | it seems that the startup scripts weren't updated but some of the files that it needs to start up were deleted |
| 16:20.54 | snooo | so i end up not getting to a login prompt |
| 16:21.24 | grivell | Hmm, just re-install than. You can "upgrade" all over again |
| 16:22.01 | snooo | could i dump the root=/dev/hdc8 thing into a bash prompt? |
| 16:22.45 | snooo | i might just reinstall |
| 16:22.46 | grivell | No, upon boot. type something like: rescue root=/dev/hdc8 or linux root=/dev/hdc8 |
| 16:23.02 | snooo | kernal args? |
| 16:23.04 | grivell | Yep |
| 16:23.05 | snooo | kernel |
| 16:23.07 | snooo | roit |
| 16:23.26 | snooo | but if my startup scripts are fucked, then that wont make any difference? |
| 16:23.33 | grivell | Probably not :( |
| 16:23.36 | snooo | sucks |
| 16:23.38 | snooo | ok |
| 16:23.42 | snooo | will reinstall |
| 16:23.44 | snooo | :-/ |
| 16:23.46 | grivell | hmm. You could boot with Sarge cd, and chroot |
| 16:24.02 | snooo | i have a beige g3 |
| 16:24.09 | snooo | i dont think it can boot from cd |
| 16:24.29 | grivell | Hmm, don't you hold down C upon restart |
| 16:24.39 | snooo | and i dont have any cds |
| 16:24.44 | snooo | will try a network floppy for now |
| 16:29.39 | demon | you can't boot an oldworld from a debian CD |
| 16:30.13 | demon | because you need apple proprietary code (or a clean room reimplementation of it) to do so |
| 16:31.32 | snooo | arse |
| 16:31.40 | snooo | can you boot from it from within mac os? |
| 16:34.55 | demon | you need to use bootx (which I think is included on the CD) and a kernel and initrd to do it |
| 16:38.55 | snooo | yup |
| 16:41.25 | snooo | seems to be working |
| 16:41.55 | snooo | better than the network image i used before, actually |
| 16:42.02 | snooo | which used to fail |
| 16:45.42 | jpr1nd | has anyone else ever had trouble booting an old-world mac into the installer from the boot-floppy-hfs image? |
| 16:46.59 | snooo | it used to give me a tonne of errors regarding the hard disk |
| 16:47.04 | snooo | the partitioner refused to work |
| 16:47.08 | snooo | so i tried woody instead |
| 16:48.37 | snooo | this system is a pile of shit tho, which doesnt help |
| 16:49.00 | jpr1nd | i mean the floppy itself. the system does recognize that it's a boot floppy (doesn't spit it out) but after the little 'tux and mac' icon has been displayed for a little while it just changes to a red 'x' over a tux icon and doesn't do anything else |
| 16:54.14 | damog | --- Received a CTCP VERSION from snooo (to #DebianPPC) |
| 16:54.51 | demon | jpr1nd: that usually means that the floppy is probably damaged |
| 16:55.02 | demon | that's the most pain in the ass thing about using floppies |
| 16:55.08 | demon | they're terribly flaky |
| 16:55.55 | jpr1nd | hm, so i should just try other disks you think? |
| 16:56.00 | demon | yeah |
| 16:56.10 | demon | that'd be my suggestion |
| 16:56.12 | snooo | stupid flaky floppys |
| 16:57.34 | snooo | where is the kernal stored on the root drive? |
| 16:57.38 | snooo | kernel |
| 16:57.40 | snooo | even |
| 16:58.12 | demon | er... what do you mean? |
| 16:58.16 | jpr1nd | alright, thanks |
| 16:58.45 | snooo | i've just come to the end of a cd installation |
| 16:58.47 | snooo | and it wants to reboot |
| 16:59.33 | snooo | can i still use the kernel that came with the cd or will i need to copy over the kernel from the setup? i'm using bootx to start linux |
| 16:59.45 | demon | do you have a working MacOS install on the hard disk? |
| 16:59.56 | snooo | yes |
| 17:00.21 | snooo | os 9 |
| 17:00.47 | demon | you might want to copy the kernel (and initrd, if there is one) from /boot onto the MacOS partition |
| 17:01.04 | demon | I've not recently installed Debian on an oldworld |
| 17:01.16 | demon | I installed woody on my 7500 some time back |
| 17:01.35 | demon | but haven't messed with installing again lately, as I haven't needed to |
| 17:02.08 | snooo | im going to chance it |
| 17:05.26 | snooo | didnt work.......... |
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| 21:57.45 | a_monkey | i need to press the "Print" key in an app |
| 21:57.55 | a_monkey | where would that be on an apple keyboard |
| 21:58.13 | sk1p | ctrl+p |
| 21:58.13 | a_monkey | ? |
| 21:58.16 | a_monkey | thx |
| 21:58.29 | a_monkey | er, that's not what i mean |
| 21:58.35 | sk1p | ? |
| 21:58.43 | al_ | i've never seen a "print screen" key on mac |
| 21:59.23 | a_monkey | like, the "help" key on an apple keyboard is the "insert" key on other keyboard |
| 21:59.26 | a_monkey | s |
| 21:59.37 | a_monkey | wondering what is the "Print" key on an apple keyboard |
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| 22:04.33 | a_monkey | and "clear" on an apple keyboard is numlock on a peecee keyboard |
| 22:05.29 | a_monkey | if anybody knows what key is "Print" on a peecee keyboard please tell me |
| 22:05.38 | a_monkey | i have to use the "Print" key in a certain app |
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| 22:07.41 | Bor_Ed | print screen is on f13 at least on this kb |
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| 22:49.58 | incubii | howdy |
| 22:50.25 | incubii | im impressed, debian sarge installed flawlessly on my G4 |
| 22:54.03 | grivell | Flawless on iBook G4 12", and Mac Mini here |
| 22:55.29 | mirak | mac mini ? |
| 22:55.33 | mirak | how is it ? |
| 22:56.35 | *** part/#debianppc a_monkey (~thechimp@user-0can32u.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 22:58.02 | grivell | It is ok performance wise. 3D accel. Small form. I like that. |
| 22:58.19 | grivell | Fairly cheap for what it is. |
| 22:59.17 | grivell | Something I would have no problem recommending to people that want a solid Linux box, or people that are new to computers (macosx) |
| 22:59.29 | grivell | bbl, dinner. |
| 23:10.35 | *** join/#debianppc drwarp (~warp@2001:760:202:f200:0:0:0:45a) |
| 23:22.45 | *** join/#debianppc niktaris (~niktaris@vdp053.her01.cas.hol.gr) |