irclog2html for #debianppc on 20060102

00:18.15*** part/#debianppc picochu (n=picochu@cm132.gamma245.maxonline.com.sg)
03:35.50*** join/#debianppc sk1p_ (i=alex@p548D6650.dip.t-dialin.net)
04:06.38*** join/#debianppc peterrooney (n=peter@S0106001310a01647.gv.shawcable.net)
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08:10.22*** join/#debianppc angel2 (n=ds9@ASt-Lambert-102-1-1-188.w193-251.abo.wanadoo.fr)
08:30.29*** join/#debianppc Makeio (n=makeioo@62-14-174-159.inversas.jazztel.es)
08:35.27Makeiohi!, i have a pwrbook g4 with airport extreme built-in. when i type a 'lspci' output doens't show the airport extreme, is a normal situation?, i haven't installed aiport driver
08:36.17johillMakeio: yes, that's normal, it shows a Broadcom card ;)
08:36.29johill0001:10:12.0 Network controller: Broadcom Corporation BCM4306 802.11b/g Wireless LAN Controller (rev 03)
08:36.32johillfor me
08:51.52*** join/#debianppc saintiss (n=saintiss@143.129.75.191)
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09:22.18Bor_Edhttp://www.builderau.com.au/program/work/0,39024650,39180280,00.htm hehe, most important news from last year :)
09:33.30*** join/#debianppc dolphy (n=dolphy@polar.es6.egwn.net)
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12:03.04*** join/#debianppc MelkorD (n=MorgothD@kubus.gwarbit.pl)
12:07.47*** join/#debianppc marculix (n=marculix@gw.ptr-80-238-131-104.customer.ch.netstream.com)
12:36.12*** join/#debianppc MeisterTom (i=MajorTom@p54860CCF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
12:58.34*** join/#debianppc johill (n=johannes@p5487C827.dip.t-dialin.net)
13:27.11Makeioggrrrr
13:27.15*** part/#debianppc dpryo (i=hn@donatello.nesland.net)
13:27.23Makeiohttp://rafb.net/paste/results/WeANaV82.html, i donīt undestand this!
13:28.10Makeiois possible that my airport ara broken!?
14:06.02*** join/#debianppc _rene__ (n=rene@dslb-084-056-120-233.pools.arcor-ip.net)
14:08.21*** join/#debianppc Mark__T (n=mark@p5082843B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
14:32.25Corsacdoes someone use a calendar application ?
14:38.46*** join/#debianppc MasterTom (i=MajorTom@p548643D8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
14:53.00*** join/#debianppc rajesh (n=rajesh@pcp09354616pcs.jersyc01.nj.comcast.net)
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15:16.26marculixCorsac: we all use 'cal'
15:16.27marculix:-)
15:24.32Corsacwith remote ical support ? :)
15:25.29SimonRavenevolution, sunbird, korganizer, cal ;)
15:25.41marculixno, with month-support Corsac
15:26.16Corsac:)
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15:48.43*** join/#debianppc niktaris (n=niktaris@ppp61-adsl-128.ath.forthnet.gr)
15:48.43ctrhow hard is it to get the wifi driver working on debian unstable ?
15:49.35Corsacit's really easy
15:52.27ctrCorsac, what modules do I need installed ?
15:52.43Corsacyou run a debian kernel ?
15:52.49ctryeah
15:53.53ctrwill I need to roll my own ?
15:55.11Corsacnop
15:55.20Corsacyou only have to get softmac and bcm43xx
15:55.22Corsacsnapshots are fine
15:55.41Corsacjust compile and install (make / make install for both) and that's all
15:55.49Corsac(you'll need headers for your kernel)
15:56.07ctrhmm, the latest kernel in debian unstalbe is .14 but the instructions say I need .15 or more recent
16:18.16*** join/#debianppc grxmrx (i=grxmrx@user12.112.udn.pl)
16:54.19Corsacmpf, i'm fed up with those initrd things
16:54.32Corsaci build my kernels without initrd, but debian ones comes with an initrd
16:55.00Corsacand if i forget to change (both ways) it in yaboot.conf, the system can't boot
16:55.17Corsac(well, you can boot but using manual tricks etc..)
16:55.38Corsacyou can't put initrd.img = if you don't have an initrd, it won't boot
16:55.54Corsacand if you need an initrd and the line isn't there, it won't boot either
16:55.55Corsacpff :)
17:01.49ctrheh
17:25.10*** join/#debianppc mirak (n=mirak@AAubervilliers-152-1-22-102.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr)
17:32.14SimonRavenCorsac: so put an alias for initrd, or debian kernels, and one for your kernels
17:32.32SimonRaventhen in yaboot when you tab you get something like:
17:32.39SimonRavenLinux.debian Linux.mine
17:32.52SimonRaven(e.g.)
17:33.37SimonRaveni have like 3, i could have more, in quik.cinf, one for the old image, one for the new one, and one for testing
17:33.41SimonRavenconf*
17:35.17Corsacquik.conf ?
17:36.24Corsacok, quik is the predecessor of yaboot
17:36.49Corsac(by the way, i don't understand what you mean)
17:37.25SimonRavenyaboot is rather similar in configuration...
17:37.26SimonRavensec
17:37.38SimonRaveni'll paste bin it
17:37.47*** mode/#DebianPPC [+o SimonRaven] by ChanServ
17:37.54*** join/#debianppc paster (n=paster@rzlab.ucr.edu)
17:38.01*** mode/#DebianPPC [-o SimonRaven] by ChanServ
17:38.28Corsacpaster: \o/
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17:41.06paster"SimonRaven" at 66.11.160.83 pasted "image=/path/to/vmlinux append=" (16 lines) at http://channels.debian.net/paste/1440
17:41.33SimonRavenCorsac: ^^ the label= is what pops up when you <tab> in yaboot
17:42.29Corsacyes, but at the moment i use only Linux/old because of the way dpkg upgrades everything when changing kernels
17:43.01SimonRavenohnoz, hand editing :P
17:53.15SimonRavenyeh i get it. just that i saw you bitching, and thought you might like another POV
17:53.38Corsac?
17:54.31SimonRavenno worries
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18:16.26*** join/#debianppc helgoman (n=helgoman@dslb-082-083-051-056.pools.arcor-ip.net)
18:20.06*** join/#debianppc LionsMane (n=Don@c-65-96-163-232.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
18:21.45SimonRavenLionsMane: what the machine? if it's oldworld it won't boot from cd
18:25.00LionsManeI think it is.. how do I tell if it is old world or not?
18:25.14LionsMane<= reading thru the links from Chanserv when I opened this channel.
18:26.23demonwhat model of machine is it?
18:26.27*** join/#debianppc rajesh (n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh)
18:27.04LionsManePowerBook G3, pre USB, black
18:27.35LionsMane300Mhz
18:27.49demonif it doesn't have USB, it's OldWorld
18:27.54LionsManeI don't know how to get more specific?  Is there a way to be able to "sex" these machines to get a good idea?
18:27.54demonso yeah, it won't boot from CD
18:27.59LionsManeI'll write it down whne I know.
18:28.47demonhttp://www.lowendmac.com/pb2/g3-guide.html
18:28.50demongo there
18:29.09demonthat provides a fairly comprehensive table of features to help you determine which model you've got
18:29.42demonif it's a pre-USB G3 powerbook with a 300 MHz CPU, it sounds like a series II Wallstreet
18:32.05LionsManeYup, I think it is demon.
18:33.11LionsManedemon: What are my options?
18:33.22demondo you have the floppy drive module?
18:33.23LionsManeI have an uninitialized HD in the machine.
18:33.27LionsManeNope, no floppy
18:33.33LionsManeI thought I did, but I can't find it.
18:38.09LionsManeAny other thoughts?
18:42.20demondunno... I don't even know how to get that machine to an OF prompt... it's pretty hard to boot linux on the oldworld machines if you can't get to OF and don't have MacOS on the machine already
18:45.56helgomanLionsMane: there is good documentation at www.netbsd.org
18:46.29SimonRavendemon: boot vars or system disk
19:00.45LionsManeI am looking at this new material
19:01.23LionsManeThe mac goobers were... not exactly helpful.. they were like software guys with the idea, "You stick the disk in and it just works" mindset.  "If it doesn't, buy new hardware"
19:02.01Q-FUNKhhm. right
19:02.28*** join/#debianppc mirak (n=mirak@AAubervilliers-152-1-44-17.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr)
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19:02.58LionsManewoot OF 2.0.1
19:03.39Corsachow do you upgrade openfirwmare ? :)
19:04.27SimonRavenstill won't boot linux cds
19:05.12*** join/#debianppc Joersch (n=joerg@p54A5F9EE.dip.t-dialin.net)
19:05.45SimonRavenCorsac: you don't on those old ones, they're hardcoded ROMs
19:06.37Corsaci have newworlds one
19:06.41LionsManeCorsac: No I don't know how to upgrade OpenFirmware
19:06.50Joerschhi all
19:06.59LionsManeAnd I am on a WallStreet class machine...
19:07.13LionsManeSimonRaven: you can't upgrade the OF, the?
19:07.14LionsManeThen?
19:07.44SimonRavennot oldworld no
19:08.00Corsacand on newworld ? :)
19:08.27SimonRavenyes
19:09.45LionsManeOk... SOoo... hmmm
19:09.51LionsManehmm
19:10.04LionsManeI am in OpenFirmware... Leeme look around some more.
19:13.36*** join/#debianppc Oryn (i=oryn@falcore.fsck.tv)
19:15.34LionsManeSoooo If I get the Disk
19:16.33LionsManehmmm
19:17.16LionsManeSimonRaven: If I install NetBSD on this mac, will it boot from the HD?
19:17.28LionsManeOr will I need to have Mac HFS partitions on there?
19:17.41LionsManeAnd where does the "blessings" come into it?
19:21.27SimonRaveni think you're a bit confused. 1) it'll boot from hdd. 2) no 3) what are these 'blessings you speak of?
19:24.51Curaltonybin -v i guess ;)
19:25.18SimonRavenonly one i could think of
19:25.57SimonRaven@srs /bin/view/Main/MacModels
19:25.57ravenbirdhttp://simonraven.nuit.ca//bin/view/Main/MacModels
19:26.22SimonRaven@no srs is <reply>http://simonraven.nuit.ca
19:26.23ravenbirdSimonRaven: okay
19:26.31SimonRavenLionsMane: ^^^
19:26.35SimonRaven<PROTECTED>
19:29.05almost-ctris there a java jdk/sdk for debianppc ?
19:29.42*** join/#debianppc DrWarp (n=warp@ppp-157-150.29-151.libero.it)
19:33.09SimonRavenyes
20:01.13*** join/#debianppc helgoman (n=helgoman@dslb-082-083-051-056.pools.arcor-ip.net)
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20:54.01*** join/#debianppc versaily (n=meheren@227-38.8-67.swfla.res.rr.com)
20:54.33versailyi have a question with some ppc compatibility
20:55.09versailycan i put a G4 proccesor in a G3 ppc yosemite
20:56.22versailyi heard that the G3 (yosimite) is about the same as a a G4 (yikes) so... can i do it?...???
20:57.55SimonRavenif it's the same kind of CPU module, sure
20:58.03SimonRavenyosemite BTW
20:58.15versaily?
20:58.21versailyyosemite blue and white
20:58.42versailydo i have to do anything or can i just insert the G4 cpu and boot up?
20:59.38*** join/#debianppc johill (n=johannes@p5487C827.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:59.53SimonRavenwell, i'd be careful when inserting it, you don't want static electricity, and you should make sure it's the right kind of module, but in normal circumstances you can just stick it in, zap the pram, and try booting, and it should work
20:59.53*** join/#debianppc grxmrx (i=grxmrx@user12.112.udn.pl)
21:00.07versailyok thx!
21:00.11SimonRaventhey take ZIF modules IIRC
21:00.19versailyzap the pram???
21:00.26SimonRavenopt-cmd-p-r
21:00.38SimonRavenbefore the boing
21:00.52versailycmd?
21:00.58SimonRavenand let it boing 3 times before you let go. opt-cmd should be held down first
21:01.04SimonRavencommand, apple key
21:01.09versailyoh ok
21:01.29versailysry im a noob at this what is boing?
21:01.40SimonRaventhe sound you hear when it boots
21:01.50versailyah
21:01.56versailyok thx
21:02.09SimonRaven:)
21:02.31versailydo i have to upgrade memory or anything?
21:02.46versailylike wht is the g4 system requirments?
21:02.56SimonRavenwww.apple-history.com
21:03.04versailyok thx
21:03.23SimonRavenmmm, yummay altivec .... :)
21:03.41versaily:-)
21:06.21versailyyeh according to thier site it should work!!!
21:06.28SimonRavencool
21:08.44versailyok... i want to search for the procesor how do i no that it will work in my comp?
21:08.54versailyor are all g4's the same???
21:11.00*** join/#debianppc ravenbird (i=ravenbir@unaffiliated/simonrvn/bot/ravenbird)
21:11.15SimonRaventhey're not all the same, it'll work
21:12.13*** join/#debianppc LionsMane (n=Don@c-65-96-163-232.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
21:18.50*** join/#debianppc helgoman_ (n=helgoman@dslc-082-082-166-029.pools.arcor-ip.net)
21:22.58LionsMane~sigh~
21:23.08LionsManeOk, to boot... No to burn, perhaps to boot.
21:24.58versaily"they're not all the same, it'll work" ??? will a g4 cpu ulled from a sawtooth comp.work???
21:26.11versailyanyhow got to shut down going to take a look at my cpu
21:26.13*** part/#debianppc versaily (n=meheren@227-38.8-67.swfla.res.rr.com)
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21:41.28witchwill wake-on-lan work on mac mini, if I have a newer kernel?
21:47.10*** join/#debianppc versaily (n=meheren@227-38.8-67.swfla.res.rr.com)
21:47.50versailywill a g4 sawtooth processor fit into a g3 yosimite?
21:48.08versailyor rather a g4 cpu pulled from a sawtooth computer
21:48.16versailynot will it work will it fit?
21:54.07SimonRaveni told you to check it first
21:55.53versailyi can't seem to find any pics of the bootom on th net
21:56.39versailymy g3 has a ton of little copper "spikes" on the bottem witch fit into a casing on the motherboard
21:57.11versailyit doesn't look like the sawtooth cpu's  have that but hard to tel... do u know?
22:00.14SimonRavenlike i said, if they're ZIFs, it should work. i'm not here to do your research for you
22:00.50versailywhat is a ZIF?
22:01.30*** join/#debianppc johill (n=johannes@p5487C827.dip.t-dialin.net)
22:07.41versailywhat exactly is a ZIF???
22:09.01SimonRaven!fgi versaily ZIF
22:09.08SimonRaven@fgi versaily ZIF
22:09.08ravenbirdversaily: http://fuckinggoogleit.com/search?query=ZIF
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23:02.55LionsManeOk, anyone home?
23:03.34Joerschsure
23:07.44*** join/#debianppc touch_of_gray (n=jdesalvo@24-247-173-67.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com)
23:08.47touch_of_grayHi. Am trying to build Gizmod to work with a Griffin Powermate
23:09.09touch_of_grayI keep getting compile errors: You must have ALSA installed.
23:09.44touch_of_grayI've install damn near every ALSA package in  the repository, have the kernel source too.
23:10.17touch_of_grayAm running kernel 2.6.12
23:10.28Corsacdoes someone use skippy ?
23:13.56LionsManeOk, so I have a "OldWorld" PowerMac, aka WallStreet... I have an uninitialized harddrive (no HFS file systems on there) and I want to install a Debian or BSD variant.  No floppy drive either.
23:15.47LionsManeNo takers?
23:16.31LionsManeI saw this article about installing NetBSD on a mac.. but I am still working on that.. the thing that looked like it would start a NetBSD install.. It umm... locked up the Mac and kicked my dog.
23:17.13*** part/#debianppc touch_of_gray (n=jdesalvo@24-247-173-67.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com)
23:25.48helgoman_LionsMane: is netbsd working? but I think this is not the right channel to talk about another system than debian
23:26.48LionsManehelgoman_: It was at the suggestion of someone in this channel to check out the process for prep'ing a Mac box for NetBSD would help for a Debian install.
23:27.00LionsManeMy ultimate target is to have a working Debian install.
23:27.23LionsManeI'll take the shortest path to that, but if it means a temporary NetBSD install, I'll do it.
23:28.10helgoman_i told you about good dokumentation from netbsd- project about openfirmware... you will find a link to that dokuments on debian- sites, too.
23:29.29LionsManehelgoman_: Oh ok.
23:32.02helgoman_i haven't an oldworld machine but i read the dokument for some weeks. i wanted to bring upa dual- boot system with debian and netbsd on my G4- ibook. but perhaps you will find some information because the dokuments are preety good
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23:36.10helgoman_LionsMane: you can't boot a debian-install cd?
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23:38.34JoerschLionsMane sounds like an very old Mac
23:38.51LionsManeJoersch: it is an "Old World" mac.
23:38.55LionsManeOF 2.0.1
23:39.01Joerschhave you tryed http://nubus-pmac.sourceforge.net/
23:39.03LionsManeNeeds a HFS file syste
23:39.45Joerschhave you got an macos running?
23:40.27Joerschwell... you've got an OF, makes it a bit easier, maybe
23:40.51Joerschtried quik or xboot ?
23:40.57LionsManeJoersch: I am not sure what I am reading there.
23:41.07LionsManeI am not sure how to use either quik or xboot.
23:41.13LionsManeRemember, I have a blank HD.
23:41.17LionsManeAnd no floppy.
23:41.31LionsManeI don't have a lot of toys to start off with.
23:42.10Joerschso, what do you have.... i think a running macos is needed for any cross boot....
23:43.35LionsManeI have MacOS 9.. but I can't get it to install.
23:43.43Joerschwell
23:43.50LionsManeIt sez it can't create the Desktop folder
23:44.57Joerschwell... okay... i've got no idea.... maybe your harddisk is just crashed... if even macos cant install itself.... sorry... no idea
23:45.59LionsManeI partitioned it.. and Darwin started installing on it, but it still didn't boot.
23:46.07LionsManeThing is.. the old disk did crash and I replaced it.
23:46.19LionsManeThat is why I have this uninitialized disk.
23:46.53Joerschokay... one step further.... i'am really not so far into OF... none of my mac has it :-)
23:48.29helgoman_LionsMane: is a cdrom-device avalible?
23:49.08LionsManeyes, but no floppy
23:49.55helgoman_you can't boot cd?
23:50.14LionsManeI can't boot new cd's... not ones from ISO's, it seems.
23:50.23LionsManeOnly ones from darwin in the CDR format.
23:52.57helgoman_http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/macppc/models.html#pbg3s
23:53.38LionsManeI did that, and it locked up the PowerBook.
23:54.12helgoman_Open Firmware is able to boot files from a variety of file systems (such as ISO9660, and MS-DOS FAT)
23:54.17LionsManeI got all excvited and stuff when I read that note
23:55.18helgoman_Open Firmware 1.0.5 and 2.0.x machines will not boot from the ISO9660 file system if you create a hybrid HFS/ISO format CD-R. Make sure that the CD only has ISO9660 data and does not have an Apple Partition Map.
23:55.42helgoman_that is from netbsd.org
23:56.42LionsManeI am not clear what that means for me, tho.
23:57.12LionsManeI am using the NetBSD provided images.
23:57.17LionsManethe ones for macppc.
23:57.48helgoman_what is your book?
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23:57.56helgoman_wallstreet?
23:58.06LionsManeWallStreet
23:58.22helgoman_(sorry for bad english ;-))
23:58.46LionsManeNo problem, helgoman_... Thanks for trying English instead of making me speak "not English"
23:59.12gizmoHi

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