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| 05:21.24 | raywtf | hey all, i'm having trouble installing debian on an oldworld machine (beige G3 minitower) |
| 05:21.50 | raywtf | anyone around who might be able to help me out ? It's w/ the final stage.. i've got it installed... i'm just having trouble re-booting into the OS |
| 05:30.05 | *** join/#debianppc simonrvn (i=simon@unaffiliated/simonrvn) |
| 05:48.00 | raywtf | hello simonrvn |
| 05:48.36 | raywtf | you there? |
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| 11:58.58 | nefertum | is there any driver like synaptics touchpad for debian-ppc? |
| 12:32.46 | Corsac | well, synaptics driver works fine |
| 12:44.15 | Q-FUNK | http://q-funk.iki.fi/debian/pool/u/utf8-migration-tool/ |
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| 14:20.54 | nefertum | Corsac: but the synaptics driver works with the ibook touchpad? |
| 14:21.14 | Corsac | yes, it should |
| 14:21.17 | Corsac | but it's X11 driver |
| 14:21.28 | Corsac | you need to first load the appletouch kernel driver |
| 14:21.30 | nefertum | and what happens with it? |
| 14:22.03 | Corsac | what do you mean? |
| 14:22.15 | nefertum | ah, nothing |
| 14:22.19 | Corsac | :) |
| 14:22.21 | nefertum | my ibook touchpad works fine |
| 14:22.28 | nefertum | so..it should work with synaptics driver? |
| 14:26.15 | Corsac | yes |
| 15:20.43 | *** join/#debianppc cyberfunk (n=cfunk@c-24-63-0-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 15:27.01 | cyberfunk | Hey everyone, I'm trying to boot debian on my OldWorld Biege G3 tower... but I've run into some trouble.... I got the BootX bootloader to work for the install, and I rebooted and ran the Debian installer fine... I selected and ext2 filesystem for my root filesystem, as required by quick, on a clean drive, the installer then installed quick, rebooted me, and I got a blank (black) screen.... The only guidanced on the quik site (htt |
| 15:27.02 | cyberfunk | p://penguinppc.org/bootloaders/quik/) is to zap my PRAM, which I did (apple-option-PR), and then I boot into MacOS 9, and now I have no idea how to reboot into my debian install ! I tried Using BootX w/ various /dev/hdaX's (where X is an integer 0-5), but I'm just guessing... and I dont know how to tell which hdaX my debian installed onto.. and even if I DID hit the right one, wether it would work... Any suggestions/help... please? |
| 15:30.19 | cyberfunk | also, I'm dutifully installing by following the instructions here: http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/powerpc/ch04s05.html.en#files-oldworld and here: http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/powerpc/ch05s01.html.en |
| 15:31.25 | pahartik | cyberfunk: copy kernel image and ramdisk image from /boot/ to HFS+ and tell BootX to use them... |
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| 15:35.54 | cyberfunk | ok.... |
| 15:35.56 | Bor_Ed | "A high-end dual-core Xeon running full tilt throws off 165 watts of heat" hmm, thank gawd there's freescale mpc8641d which has 17W going in at 1GHz |
| 15:35.57 | cyberfunk | and then what? |
| 15:36.36 | cyberfunk | also, how might I do that, as I cant even access the ext2 filesystem from Mac os 9 ? |
| 15:37.10 | cyberfunk | also... is there anyway to get quik to work? |
| 15:37.38 | Bor_Ed | quik works (best) from scsi linux / disk |
| 15:38.06 | Bor_Ed | ide is pretty much matter of luck and moon phase during the setup |
| 15:38.14 | cyberfunk | my Mac OS 9 system folder is on a different disk from my linux install... one which i formatted as ext2 |
| 15:38.29 | pahartik | cyberfunk: boot installer again to copy files over... |
| 15:38.47 | cyberfunk | yea... copy files over to what |
| 15:39.36 | cyberfunk | bor_ed, so you're saying that if I get a black screen after trying to install debian w/ quik, that quik just wont work ? |
| 15:39.42 | Bor_Ed | os9 and linux both support vfat... make a small partition with that FS to share between the OS's before you get a kernel to linux which supports hfs |
| 15:39.55 | Bor_Ed | cyberfunk: most probably |
| 15:40.14 | Bor_Ed | you can get to os9 though from FW even then |
| 15:40.33 | pahartik | cyberfunk: you can keep trying "quik" easily once you have BootX set up to to boot that Linux system |
| 15:40.42 | cyberfunk | thats a good point |
| 15:40.45 | cyberfunk | baby steps first |
| 15:40.46 | cyberfunk | heh |
| 15:41.38 | cyberfunk | ok.. so heres the deal.. debian doesnt recognize my CD drive, so i'm using a net-inst ISO, which I put on a 350 MB IDE drive (yes, I said MB) |
| 15:41.52 | cyberfunk | i can reboot w/ BootX |
| 15:41.56 | cyberfunk | and install fine |
| 15:42.08 | Bor_Ed | oldworld doesn't boot linux from cd |
| 15:42.14 | Bor_Ed | you'd need 2 floppies to get that |
| 15:42.22 | cyberfunk | no, i mean, it wont RECOGNIZE the CD drive |
| 15:42.27 | cyberfunk | even once i boot linuz |
| 15:42.29 | cyberfunk | linux |
| 15:42.46 | Bor_Ed | right... some beige g3's don't support slaves at all on ide |
| 15:42.47 | cyberfunk | the debian installer just refuses to see the CD drive |
| 15:42.59 | cyberfunk | yea, it was running as master |
| 15:43.02 | cyberfunk | on it's own chain |
| 15:43.04 | cyberfunk | hahah |
| 15:43.06 | cyberfunk | anyways |
| 15:43.20 | Bor_Ed | hmm, then there's something wrong with the cabling or jumpering |
| 15:43.27 | cyberfunk | it wouldnt recognize an external scsi cd drive either |
| 15:43.34 | cyberfunk | but thats not the point at the moment |
| 15:43.38 | cyberfunk | i took the CD drive off the chain |
| 15:43.43 | cyberfunk | and put another HD in there |
| 15:43.49 | cyberfunk | so i have 3 HDs |
| 15:44.00 | cyberfunk | 1 6 GB blank one, onto which I want to install linux |
| 15:44.06 | Bor_Ed | I have 2 HD's and cd-rw inside this g3 |
| 15:44.18 | cyberfunk | 1 350 MB one which holds my inst image |
| 15:44.32 | cyberfunk | and a 20 GB one which holds some files and my Mac os 9 system folder |
| 15:44.40 | Bor_Ed | you can't install from iso... just pick up the kernel and initrd to do netinstall |
| 15:44.56 | cyberfunk | i installed just from from the iso |
| 15:45.02 | cyberfunk | it let me do it |
| 15:45.05 | Bor_Ed | hmm :o |
| 15:45.19 | cyberfunk | it's a net-inst image tho |
| 15:45.29 | cyberfunk | it's meant to install the base system |
| 15:45.34 | cyberfunk | and then reboot me for package selection |
| 15:45.45 | cyberfunk | only, when i reboot, I never see linux again ;) |
| 15:46.24 | Bor_Ed | that's because of quik won't work at all without the OF patches from system disk and it's hard to boot from ide even applying the patches |
| 15:46.39 | cyberfunk | i already did those OF patches |
| 15:46.52 | cyberfunk | ok... so here's my main problem.,... when I reboot to the installer... do I need to reinstall again ? |
| 15:47.00 | Bor_Ed | scsi has still better change of working |
| 15:47.03 | cyberfunk | and how do i "find" my drives from the commandline |
| 15:47.08 | cyberfunk | i dont know what's mounted where |
| 15:47.11 | Bor_Ed | no need to reinstall... you can chroot to installed sys |
| 15:47.44 | cyberfunk | yea |
| 15:47.51 | cyberfunk | how do i find where it installed my sys |
| 15:48.00 | cyberfunk | hold on, lemme boot this up on my other monitor |
| 15:48.05 | cyberfunk | so i can do two things at once |
| 15:48.05 | Bor_Ed | what HD it's on? |
| 15:48.52 | cyberfunk | my linux install went onto "hda" according to the partitioner |
| 15:49.24 | cyberfunk | but when I boot the installer.. there's no /dev/hda |
| 15:49.29 | Bor_Ed | it might be /dev/hda3 then |
| 15:49.48 | Bor_Ed | or hda6 |
| 15:49.57 | Bor_Ed | depends if you have the patches in or not |
| 15:50.06 | cyberfunk | but there's no hdaX or ANYTHING |
| 15:50.10 | cyberfunk | in the /decv |
| 15:50.16 | cyberfunk | " /dev |
| 15:50.20 | cyberfunk | well, correction |
| 15:50.23 | cyberfunk | there's lots of stuff |
| 15:50.24 | Bor_Ed | you need to load up to the installer to have those... |
| 15:50.27 | cyberfunk | just no hdas |
| 15:50.34 | cyberfunk | one sec |
| 15:50.40 | cyberfunk | lemme load upto the installer |
| 15:53.20 | cyberfunk | ok, so i'm rebooting w/ BootX using the linux kernel and the initrd.gz to start the installer... |
| 15:53.30 | cyberfunk | now i'm in the installer |
| 15:53.42 | cyberfunk | (asking me for langauge) |
| 15:53.46 | cyberfunk | what should i do ? |
| 15:54.01 | cyberfunk | alt-f2 to another console ? |
| 15:54.37 | Bor_Ed | go up to the menu where you get the 'go to console' option |
| 15:54.43 | Bor_Ed | it's up then |
| 15:55.04 | cyberfunk | you mean, keep accepting options through thern |
| 15:55.05 | cyberfunk | ok.. |
| 15:55.06 | cyberfunk | one sec |
| 15:55.49 | cyberfunk | it's detecting disks.... |
| 15:55.54 | cyberfunk | i'm upto the partitioner |
| 15:56.01 | Bor_Ed | bail out from it |
| 15:56.05 | cyberfunk | ok |
| 15:56.25 | cyberfunk | get a shell |
| 15:56.26 | cyberfunk | ? |
| 15:56.36 | Bor_Ed | something like that |
| 15:56.46 | cyberfunk | got a busybox shell |
| 15:56.51 | cyberfunk | (ash) |
| 15:57.04 | Bor_Ed | yea... now mac-fdisk -l /dev/hda |
| 15:57.11 | cyberfunk | what's that do ? |
| 15:57.24 | Bor_Ed | shows the partitions on first ide drive |
| 15:57.39 | cyberfunk | "cant open file /dev/hda" |
| 15:57.44 | cyberfunk | (no such file/dir) |
| 15:57.48 | cyberfunk | ls |
| 15:57.51 | cyberfunk | whoops |
| 15:57.53 | cyberfunk | wrong keyboard |
| 15:58.08 | Bor_Ed | now there's something fishy for sure... what version you have there? |
| 15:59.05 | cyberfunk | in /dev, I have adb,full,kmsg,misc,pts,scsi,urandom,zero,console,ide,log,null,random,shm,usb,discs,input,loop,port,rd,tts,vc,fb,kmem,mem,ptmx,root,tty,vcc |
| 16:00.09 | cyberfunk | version... I'm trying to install sarge |
| 16:01.09 | Bor_Ed | hmm, use the installer then to mount previously inited partition |
| 16:01.36 | cyberfunk | huh? |
| 16:01.46 | cyberfunk | you lost me |
| 16:02.07 | cyberfunk | i should repartition ? |
| 16:02.27 | Bor_Ed | the installer has such option... no, don't repartition but mount the root partition within the installer |
| 16:02.42 | cyberfunk | there's no mount command ! |
| 16:02.44 | cyberfunk | argh? |
| 16:03.01 | Bor_Ed | within the installer options, not in the ash prompt |
| 16:03.04 | cyberfunk | the partitioner in lists 3 drives, it sees them all, as hda/hdc/hdd |
| 16:03.28 | cyberfunk | also as IDE1 master/IDE3 master/IDE3 slave |
| 16:03.38 | cyberfunk | (I'm trying to install onto IDE1 master) |
| 16:03.53 | Bor_Ed | you have some pci ide card in there? |
| 16:03.58 | cyberfunk | no |
| 16:04.10 | cyberfunk | except a usb card (which I'm not using atm) |
| 16:04.17 | Bor_Ed | the ides should be ide0 and ide1 |
| 16:04.28 | cyberfunk | how about the "ide" folder in /dev ? |
| 16:04.37 | cyberfunk | inside there's host0 and host1 |
| 16:04.44 | Bor_Ed | those are the ide buses |
| 16:04.59 | cyberfunk | inside host0 |
| 16:05.01 | Bor_Ed | ls -la /dev/hda |
| 16:05.10 | Bor_Ed | grmbl focus follows mouse |
| 16:05.19 | cyberfunk | ah |
| 16:05.28 | cyberfunk | inside host0 is "bus0" |
| 16:05.31 | Bor_Ed | anyway, looks like it's a block device at least on this g3 |
| 16:05.41 | cyberfunk | huh? |
| 16:05.46 | cyberfunk | isnide bus0 is target0 |
| 16:05.56 | cyberfunk | and inside target0 is lun0 |
| 16:06.04 | Bor_Ed | that's the 'new' path thingy on /dev |
| 16:06.19 | cyberfunk | and inside THAT is disc, part1, part2, part3 |
| 16:06.37 | cyberfunk | so, my path is /dev/ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/ |
| 16:06.39 | Bor_Ed | linux is on the part3 most probably |
| 16:07.06 | cyberfunk | yea, catting part3 streams a whole bunch of shit to screen |
| 16:07.54 | cyberfunk | yea.. it's def the linux parition |
| 16:08.06 | cyberfunk | i can see bits of linuxy things in there in ASCII |
| 16:08.09 | cyberfunk | like exim4 |
| 16:08.17 | cyberfunk | ok.. so what do i do ? |
| 16:09.01 | Bor_Ed | mount that and chroot to the mounted dir |
| 16:09.39 | cyberfunk | fck, it ate into the keybuffer or something... rebooting to that point... |
| 16:09.47 | cyberfunk | (catting the disk was a bad idea) |
| 16:10.16 | Bor_Ed | file command does better job usually |
| 16:10.23 | cyberfunk | file command? |
| 16:10.31 | cyberfunk | wait.. so how do i mount "that" |
| 16:10.32 | Bor_Ed | file part3 in your case |
| 16:10.53 | cyberfunk | file ? |
| 16:10.55 | Bor_Ed | mount -t ext2 /dev/ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part3 /some/mount/point |
| 16:11.14 | cyberfunk | yea... there's no mount |
| 16:11.37 | cyberfunk | oh wait |
| 16:11.39 | cyberfunk | now thereis |
| 16:11.40 | cyberfunk | wtf |
| 16:11.59 | cyberfunk | btw, by some/mnt poiubt |
| 16:12.19 | Bor_Ed | make dir where you want to mount it |
| 16:12.25 | cyberfunk | right |
| 16:12.27 | cyberfunk | just checking |
| 16:12.34 | cyberfunk | i'm not a linux expert sadyly |
| 16:12.41 | cyberfunk | sadly |
| 16:13.07 | Bor_Ed | well, debian on oldworld mac as standalone will look good on your CV to any *nix or computer admin job |
| 16:13.40 | cyberfunk | hahaha |
| 16:13.49 | cyberfunk | well, i'm a chemist by trade |
| 16:14.01 | cyberfunk | shit |
| 16:14.31 | cyberfunk | mount: mounting /dev/ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part3 on /mnt/rfs failed: Invalid argument |
| 16:15.00 | Bor_Ed | used -t ext2 ? |
| 16:15.12 | cyberfunk | yar |
| 16:15.34 | cyberfunk | command was mount -t ext2 /dev/ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part3 /mnt/rfs |
| 16:15.47 | cyberfunk | i madedir /mnt and then madedir /mnt/rfs |
| 16:16.18 | cyberfunk | i'm scared of the mount command, cause i never can get it to work damn it.. |
| 16:17.00 | Bor_Ed | better off to use the ncurses based stuff then on installer |
| 16:17.17 | cyberfunk | to do what? |
| 16:17.23 | Bor_Ed | to mount the buggr |
| 16:17.27 | cyberfunk | uh?? |
| 16:17.34 | cyberfunk | there's no ncurses way to mount |
| 16:17.36 | cyberfunk | only partition and install |
| 16:17.49 | cyberfunk | thats my problem at present |
| 16:18.06 | Bor_Ed | the installer has 'mount initialized partition' too |
| 16:18.42 | cyberfunk | really |
| 16:18.45 | cyberfunk | ? |
| 16:18.45 | cyberfunk | where |
| 16:18.56 | Bor_Ed | in the installer menus |
| 16:19.14 | cyberfunk | i have detect hardware then partition disks then install the base system |
| 16:19.25 | Bor_Ed | and scroll down to see the rest |
| 16:19.32 | cyberfunk | there's no rest |
| 16:19.34 | cyberfunk | i mean |
| 16:19.36 | cyberfunk | there's a huge list |
| 16:19.39 | cyberfunk | in front of me |
| 16:19.49 | cyberfunk | but theyre all steps of the installation |
| 16:19.57 | cyberfunk | should i go into the partitioner |
| 16:19.58 | cyberfunk | ? |
| 16:20.06 | Bor_Ed | and? :) use the one to mount partition... |
| 16:20.16 | cyberfunk | there's no option to mount partition |
| 16:20.30 | cyberfunk | not in the root menu |
| 16:20.34 | cyberfunk | but i mena |
| 16:20.41 | cyberfunk | i'd be happy if it worked w/mount |
| 16:21.18 | cyberfunk | huh... in the partitioner |
| 16:21.21 | cyberfunk | it complains |
| 16:21.26 | cyberfunk | cause there's no root file system defined.. |
| 16:21.51 | cyberfunk | haha |
| 16:21.58 | cyberfunk | maby i should change tht... |
| 16:22.10 | Bor_Ed | you can mount the root in the menu or in partitioner, whichever suits you |
| 16:22.31 | cyberfunk | there's no way to do it in the menu i'm looking at |
| 16:22.55 | cyberfunk | i think it just mounted it in /target |
| 16:22.55 | cyberfunk | for me |
| 16:23.09 | Bor_Ed | at least it was there when I had to do reinstall of linux because of bombed up upgrade of OS |
| 16:23.19 | cyberfunk | yea |
| 16:23.21 | cyberfunk | in any case |
| 16:23.24 | cyberfunk | i tricked the partitioner |
| 16:23.29 | cyberfunk | into mounting it on /target |
| 16:23.31 | cyberfunk | somehow |
| 16:23.38 | cyberfunk | so... now-what |
| 16:23.39 | cyberfunk | haha |
| 16:24.11 | cyberfunk | hahahaha |
| 16:24.13 | cyberfunk | on mount |
| 16:24.28 | cyberfunk | it's /dev/ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part2 |
| 16:24.34 | cyberfunk | thats' mapped to /target |
| 16:24.36 | cyberfunk | that's funny |
| 16:24.39 | Bor_Ed | so chroot to /target then |
| 16:24.56 | cyberfunk | ok.. |
| 16:24.58 | cyberfunk | and then... |
| 16:25.07 | Bor_Ed | you're in the debian sys you have |
| 16:25.13 | cyberfunk | ok.... |
| 16:25.18 | Bor_Ed | run base-config to get further on the installer |
| 16:25.20 | cyberfunk | what do i want to do here again? |
| 16:25.28 | cyberfunk | no no |
| 16:25.37 | cyberfunk | remember, my problem is i cant reboot into this |
| 16:25.45 | cyberfunk | thats what i want to do |
| 16:25.49 | cyberfunk | as soon as i can do that |
| 16:25.55 | Bor_Ed | you can after running the base-config and getting the kernel installed and so on |
| 16:25.56 | cyberfunk | i can finish the rest of the install easy |
| 16:26.08 | cyberfunk | my base-system is already installed tho |
| 16:26.20 | Bor_Ed | you just need to copy the kernel to the os9 partition then |
| 16:26.24 | cyberfunk | right... |
| 16:26.30 | cyberfunk | now that's the trick... |
| 16:26.31 | Bor_Ed | oh, and the initrd |
| 16:26.35 | cyberfunk | ok.... |
| 16:26.43 | cyberfunk | now.. thats what i dont know how to do this whole time |
| 16:26.44 | cyberfunk | haha |
| 16:26.48 | Bor_Ed | mount -t hfs /dev/some/path /mnt/other/path |
| 16:26.55 | cyberfunk | sorry for taking all your time |
| 16:27.01 | cyberfunk | you're being very very helpful for an idiot |
| 16:27.07 | cyberfunk | (i.e. the idiot is me) |
| 16:27.26 | Bor_Ed | there are no stupid questions, just stupid people (eric cartman from south park :) |
| 16:27.34 | cyberfunk | yea yea |
| 16:27.43 | cyberfunk | :) |
| 16:28.08 | cyberfunk | i just keep reminding myself that 99% of the world's population would be terrified by what i'm doing |
| 16:28.12 | cyberfunk | and then i feel all better inside |
| 16:28.15 | cyberfunk | heh |
| 16:28.42 | cyberfunk | oh shit |
| 16:28.47 | cyberfunk | i just chrooted to /target |
| 16:28.54 | cyberfunk | how do i get back to the original root ? |
| 16:28.57 | cyberfunk | or can I? |
| 16:29.15 | cyberfunk | cause now i cant see that /dev/ide/etc junk |
| 16:29.57 | cyberfunk | all i can see is /dev/ in the /target |
| 16:30.11 | cyberfunk | and mount tells me "/dev/hda2 on /" |
| 16:30.26 | Bor_Ed | mount -t proc /proc proc to get /dev back |
| 16:31.24 | cyberfunk | uh |
| 16:31.26 | cyberfunk | what does that do ? |
| 16:31.31 | cyberfunk | it seems to have changed nothiing |
| 16:32.10 | Bor_Ed | that remounts the proc filesystem from installer to runtime |
| 16:32.29 | cyberfunk | yea |
| 16:32.35 | cyberfunk | the command executed |
| 16:32.56 | cyberfunk | but the only thing different in mount is the addition of /proc on proc |
| 16:33.03 | cyberfunk | my root filesystem didnt change |
| 16:33.05 | Bor_Ed | you should now be able to mount the hfs partition where you have the bootx installed to |
| 16:33.18 | cyberfunk | it's a hfs+ part |
| 16:33.28 | Bor_Ed | well hfsplus then |
| 16:33.50 | cyberfunk | i would... but i cant.. cause i still cant see the installer's root filesystem |
| 16:34.05 | Bor_Ed | you don't need isntallers rootfs |
| 16:34.07 | cyberfunk | i still only see the |
| 16:34.07 | cyberfunk | i still only see the "/target" |
| 16:34.10 | cyberfunk | filesystem |
| 16:34.34 | cyberfunk | but, how do i know which /dev/ to mount ? there's a billion of them ? |
| 16:34.42 | Bor_Ed | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:34.51 | cyberfunk | i'm IN target |
| 16:34.54 | cyberfunk | i chrooted to it |
| 16:34.56 | Bor_Ed | should be too |
| 16:35.11 | cyberfunk | huh? |
| 16:35.24 | cyberfunk | but now i cant see that /dev/ide stuff to mount the other disk !! |
| 16:35.56 | Bor_Ed | they're in /dev/hdX |
| 16:36.16 | cyberfunk | oh, you mean, what the installer told me they were.. |
| 16:36.28 | cyberfunk | i wrote down that my mac os 9 partition is "hdd" |
| 16:36.46 | cyberfunk | so try... mount -t hfsplus /dev/hdd /mnt/point |
| 16:36.47 | cyberfunk | ? |
| 16:36.47 | Bor_Ed | so now you can mac-fdisk -l /dev/hdd to see the os9 |
| 16:36.53 | cyberfunk | oh yea |
| 16:37.01 | Bor_Ed | os9 will be on /dev/hdd5 or so |
| 16:37.24 | cyberfunk | says |
| 16:37.33 | cyberfunk | Apple_HFS untitiled |
| 16:37.41 | cyberfunk | untitled |
| 16:37.50 | cyberfunk | thats the one i want, right ? |
| 16:37.52 | cyberfunk | (hdd6) |
| 16:38.02 | Bor_Ed | yup |
| 16:38.03 | cyberfunk | does hdd6 mean the 6th part. of hdd btw? |
| 16:38.08 | Bor_Ed | yup |
| 16:38.31 | cyberfunk | oh shit |
| 16:38.33 | Bor_Ed | and that's hfs, not hfsplus |
| 16:38.49 | cyberfunk | why does it show up as mac os extended in os9 then ? |
| 16:38.59 | cyberfunk | that's HFSplus isnt it ? |
| 16:39.07 | Bor_Ed | don't ask me, I'm no mac os expert :) |
| 16:39.09 | demon | yes, it is |
| 16:39.26 | cyberfunk | HAHAHAHA |
| 16:39.35 | cyberfunk | when i mount it on /mnt/os9 |
| 16:39.47 | cyberfunk | there's a file called "where have all my files gone |
| 16:39.58 | cyberfunk | and explains that it's a HFS+ system |
| 16:40.05 | Bor_Ed | mounted as hfs or hfsplus? |
| 16:40.07 | demon | yep |
| 16:40.14 | cyberfunk | mounted as hfs |
| 16:40.22 | cyberfunk | should i try to mount as HFS plus ? |
| 16:40.24 | demon | the HFS+ filesystems made on pre-OS X have an HFS wrapper |
| 16:40.24 | Bor_Ed | umount and try hfsplus |
| 16:41.09 | cyberfunk | uh.... fck |
| 16:41.21 | cyberfunk | umount: /mnt/os9 device is busy |
| 16:41.28 | cyberfunk | i feel really stupid |
| 16:41.32 | demon | fuser -m /mnt/os9 |
| 16:41.37 | cyberfunk | ? |
| 16:41.41 | demon | see what's holding it open |
| 16:41.50 | cyberfunk | ah |
| 16:42.08 | cyberfunk | /mnt/os9: 29869c |
| 16:42.11 | cyberfunk | wtf is that? |
| 16:42.21 | Bor_Ed | process id for the task holding it |
| 16:42.21 | demon | what's PID 29869? |
| 16:42.36 | cyberfunk | that's a PID ?? |
| 16:42.40 | demon | that means that process has it as its current directory |
| 16:42.50 | demon | (that's what the 'c' indicates) |
| 16:42.51 | cyberfunk | hahah |
| 16:42.53 | cyberfunk | thats ME |
| 16:42.55 | cyberfunk | hahaha |
| 16:43.03 | demon | yeah, change out of the directory :) |
| 16:43.06 | cyberfunk | i'm a dumbass |
| 16:44.11 | cyberfunk | GOT it |
| 16:44.12 | cyberfunk | HOT |
| 16:44.22 | cyberfunk | now.. to copy those files |
| 16:44.27 | cyberfunk | from /root ? |
| 16:44.32 | cyberfunk | i mean /boot |
| 16:44.32 | Bor_Ed | they're in /boot |
| 16:44.32 | cyberfunk | ? |
| 16:44.36 | cyberfunk | yea |
| 16:44.38 | cyberfunk | ok |
| 16:44.50 | cyberfunk | huh |
| 16:44.53 | cyberfunk | which one ? |
| 16:45.01 | Bor_Ed | vmlinux-2.6.something and initrd.img-2.6.something |
| 16:45.16 | cyberfunk | there's initrd.img and initrd.img-2.6.8-powerpc |
| 16:45.26 | Bor_Ed | initrd.img is a symlink |
| 16:45.29 | cyberfunk | ah |
| 16:45.32 | cyberfunk | ls -la |
| 16:45.41 | cyberfunk | damn |
| 16:45.44 | cyberfunk | wrong keyboard |
| 16:45.47 | cyberfunk | yea, i see it now |
| 16:45.56 | cyberfunk | goodcall |
| 16:46.11 | Bor_Ed | copy those 2 files to the os9 disk, run sync couple of times and reboot |
| 16:46.22 | *** join/#debianppc benzea (n=benzea@p54A3CAAC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:46.55 | cyberfunk | going runlvl0 ! |
| 16:46.56 | cyberfunk | ;) |
| 16:47.19 | cyberfunk | i'm way too excited |
| 16:47.23 | cyberfunk | this is awesome |
| 16:47.41 | cyberfunk | i feel like i'm 16 hacking around again |
| 16:49.37 | cyberfunk | wow..this all seems so.. obvious now that its pointed out to me |
| 16:49.37 | cyberfunk | haha |
| 16:49.59 | Bor_Ed | some things are hard to figure out alone |
| 16:50.05 | cyberfunk | your telling ME |
| 16:50.14 | *** part/#debianppc cyberfunk (n=cfunk@c-24-63-0-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 16:50.27 | *** join/#debianppc cyberfunk (n=cfunk@c-24-63-0-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 16:50.30 | cyberfunk | fck |
| 16:50.33 | cyberfunk | damn it |
| 16:50.43 | cyberfunk | i'm pissed i Lost that whole freaking conversation |
| 16:50.50 | cyberfunk | wrong keyboard (Apple-W) |
| 16:50.56 | cyberfunk | i wanted to save that |
| 16:51.12 | cyberfunk | hey |
| 16:51.18 | cyberfunk | do you still have it on your screen ? |
| 16:51.25 | cyberfunk | could you drop it in an email to me ? |
| 16:51.39 | *** part/#debianppc cyberfunk (n=cfunk@c-24-63-0-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 16:51.45 | *** join/#debianppc cyberfunk (n=cfunk@c-24-63-0-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 16:51.47 | cyberfunk | damn it |
| 16:51.51 | cyberfunk | i did it AGAIN |
| 16:51.54 | cyberfunk | grrr |
| 16:51.56 | cyberfunk | heh |
| 16:51.58 | Bor_Ed | hmm |
| 16:52.01 | cyberfunk | seriously tho |
| 16:52.09 | cyberfunk | do you still have the convo on your screen ? |
| 16:52.18 | Bor_Ed | lessee, how much you want of it? I have irssi logging everything |
| 16:52.37 | cyberfunk | from the start if you have it ? |
| 16:52.51 | Bor_Ed | sure, I'll just drop by to buy some snack first |
| 16:52.58 | cyberfunk | suresuree |
| 16:53.03 | cyberfunk | i'm rebooting now w/ BootX |
| 17:01.13 | cyberfunk | sweet |
| 17:01.13 | cyberfunk | i'm into the phase2 |
| 17:01.15 | cyberfunk | of the install |
| 17:04.39 | cyberfunk | sweet... i'm pulling down the pacakges i need now' |
| 17:06.03 | Bor_Ed | still need the logs? |
| 17:17.56 | cyberfunk | oh |
| 17:17.59 | cyberfunk | i'd like em |
| 17:18.02 | cyberfunk | just for reference |
| 17:18.18 | Bor_Ed | lessee if I can grep 'em to somewhat decent format |
| 17:18.23 | cyberfunk | cyberfunk @ g m ale.com |
| 17:18.28 | cyberfunk | (paranoid about bots) |
| 17:18.43 | Bor_Ed | we have 2 bots here and they don't pick up mail addys |
| 17:18.49 | cyberfunk | (gmail, clearly) |
| 17:18.53 | cyberfunk | ah |
| 17:18.55 | Bor_Ed | though I can dcc too as soon as I have it gathered together |
| 17:19.12 | cyberfunk | that may or may not work |
| 17:19.24 | cyberfunk | (firewill has been finicky as of late) |
| 17:19.31 | Bor_Ed | rite |
| 17:19.38 | Bor_Ed | cat *ppc* |
| 17:19.53 | Bor_Ed | hrm, again focus elsewhere than should :) |
| 17:19.55 | cyberfunk | FFM ? |
| 17:20.00 | Bor_Ed | ffm? |
| 17:20.01 | cyberfunk | haah |
| 17:20.09 | cyberfunk | focus follows mous |
| 17:20.14 | Bor_Ed | that |
| 17:20.38 | cyberfunk | i prefer |
| 17:20.43 | cyberfunk | FWLAM |
| 17:20.54 | cyberfunk | focus wanders like a mtherfckr |
| 17:21.05 | Bor_Ed | hrm... now how to save it... lessee |
| 17:21.10 | cyberfunk | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:21.20 | Bor_Ed | some 10's of megs of log from this chan |
| 17:21.30 | cyberfunk | grep cyberfunk |
| 17:21.38 | cyberfunk | find the start and end |
| 17:22.07 | cyberfunk | find the line number |
| 17:22.17 | cyberfunk | and then for first mention |
| 17:22.19 | cyberfunk | of my name |
| 17:22.25 | cyberfunk | then grep again from that line on |
| 17:23.40 | cyberfunk | line numbers can be had from grep -n |
| 17:25.52 | Bor_Ed | rhere... got it... |
| 17:26.13 | Bor_Ed | I'll pick it to this box and send |
| 17:27.02 | cyberfunk | ? |
| 17:28.33 | Bor_Ed | sent |
| 17:30.07 | cyberfunk | gotit |
| 17:30.09 | cyberfunk | thnx |
| 17:30.29 | cyberfunk | aw shit |
| 17:30.42 | cyberfunk | i just ESC'd out of my xserver config.. |
| 17:30.46 | cyberfunk | this should be interesting |
| 17:31.16 | Bor_Ed | dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg to get it redone |
| 17:31.19 | cyberfunk | yea |
| 17:31.23 | cyberfunk | i was planning on it |
| 17:31.29 | cyberfunk | wait |
| 17:31.31 | cyberfunk | xorg? |
| 17:31.34 | cyberfunk | you mean xfree86 |
| 17:31.42 | Bor_Ed | or xfree86 ... don't know which is on sarge |
| 17:31.49 | cyberfunk | xfree86 |
| 17:31.51 | cyberfunk | you running etch? |
| 17:32.00 | Bor_Ed | sid, as always |
| 17:32.09 | cyberfunk | sid? |
| 17:32.09 | cyberfunk | what's that? |
| 17:32.12 | cyberfunk | also, while i've got you, how do you go about configuring network cards from KDE... is there an easy tool ? |
| 17:32.16 | Bor_Ed | 'unstable' |
| 17:32.19 | cyberfunk | hahhahaha |
| 17:32.26 | cyberfunk | i thought that was etch |
| 17:32.38 | Bor_Ed | network cards for kde? |
| 17:32.43 | Bor_Ed | etch is 'testing' |
| 17:32.49 | cyberfunk | better than unstable ? |
| 17:32.56 | cyberfunk | i.e. more stable |
| 17:32.57 | cyberfunk | ? |
| 17:33.09 | Bor_Ed | unstable is the bleeding edge debian install, testing is between stable and unstable |
| 17:33.24 | cyberfunk | so basically, your a masochist |
| 17:33.25 | cyberfunk | heh |
| 17:33.35 | Bor_Ed | naa, I prefer my linux fresh |
| 17:33.38 | cyberfunk | haha |
| 17:33.51 | cyberfunk | hot off the GCC ? |
| 17:33.59 | Bor_Ed | sid is more up to date than any other linux distro |
| 17:34.05 | cyberfunk | howso ? |
| 17:34.23 | cyberfunk | so, should i be running etch ? |
| 17:34.28 | Bor_Ed | it has packages showing up to the tree before mandriva cooker or gendoofs for example |
| 17:34.51 | cyberfunk | network card: i meant is there a tool for easy configuraion of network cards in KDE? |
| 17:34.53 | Bor_Ed | gcc on sid is gcc version 4.1.2 20060604 (prerelease) (Debian 4.1.1-2) |
| 17:34.55 | cyberfunk | i couldnt find on |
| 17:35.00 | cyberfunk | hahah |
| 17:35.03 | cyberfunk | that sounds dangerous |
| 17:35.16 | cyberfunk | i need a little stability |
| 17:35.20 | Bor_Ed | never had need to configure network cards after install... apt probably has some packages |
| 17:35.25 | Bor_Ed | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:35.29 | cyberfunk | esp when i'm mucking around w/ an old system like this |
| 17:35.33 | Bor_Ed | last downtime was because of hardware changes |
| 17:35.42 | cyberfunk | i believe it |
| 17:35.49 | cyberfunk | the kernel's solid |
| 17:35.56 | Bor_Ed | I'd have ~500 days currently without it |
| 17:36.04 | Bor_Ed | and this install is sid |
| 17:36.04 | cyberfunk | but it's just all the OTHER trouble you go throuygh |
| 17:36.15 | cyberfunk | debugging and shit |
| 17:36.28 | cyberfunk | all the troubleshooting |
| 17:36.32 | Bor_Ed | haven't debugged a thing here... nor had any serious probs either |
| 17:36.35 | cyberfunk | huh |
| 17:36.38 | cyberfunk | intersting.. |
| 17:36.40 | cyberfunk | does it run on ppc ? |
| 17:36.47 | Bor_Ed | ... |
| 17:36.54 | cyberfunk | you running on ppc ? |
| 17:36.55 | Bor_Ed | do I even need to answer? |
| 17:37.00 | cyberfunk | hahah |
| 17:37.10 | cyberfunk | are you running on a PPC box? |
| 17:37.20 | Bor_Ed | desktop beige g3 and 4400 |
| 17:37.25 | cyberfunk | wow |
| 17:37.26 | cyberfunk | ok |
| 17:37.31 | Bor_Ed | my 3rd 'box' is arm710T based pda |
| 17:37.33 | cyberfunk | no wonder you know so much |
| 17:37.49 | cyberfunk | so here's a question |
| 17:37.51 | Bor_Ed | I've been good at idling on this channel too, it helps :) |
| 17:38.10 | cyberfunk | how do all these PPC packages get compiled |
| 17:38.14 | cyberfunk | who does all that? |
| 17:38.20 | Bor_Ed | debian build system |
| 17:38.25 | cyberfunk | i mean, most of the packages out there are for x86 |
| 17:38.29 | Bor_Ed | and package maintainers |
| 17:38.41 | cyberfunk | like, isnt it a pain runnnig unix on ppc , cause most binaries are for x86? |
| 17:38.49 | Bor_Ed | debian has 11 cpu archs supported on the apt tree |
| 17:38.50 | cyberfunk | just in general ? |
| 17:39.18 | Bor_Ed | the source code is the same for all the supported arches, not more pain to compile for ppc than for example to i386 |
| 17:39.47 | cyberfunk | yea, but as you know, it's not always as simple as a recompile |
| 17:39.54 | cyberfunk | for x86/ppc |
| 17:40.03 | cyberfunk | it doesnt always just work like that |
| 17:40.04 | Bor_Ed | well, if you don't use properietary software, it is |
| 17:40.12 | cyberfunk | ... ? |
| 17:40.21 | cyberfunk | what if you make arch specific calls |
| 17:40.22 | Bor_Ed | flash, java, realmedia and such |
| 17:40.32 | cyberfunk | java's generally not a problem |
| 17:40.36 | Bor_Ed | arch specific calls are done in assembly, not in C |
| 17:41.04 | cyberfunk | well, you can do things in C that depend on the arch |
| 17:41.09 | cyberfunk | like dealing w/ endianness |
| 17:41.27 | cyberfunk | you have to have compiler directives that say do this for PPC , and this for intel |
| 17:41.29 | Bor_Ed | that's just up to coder to take that in part if that makes a diff on functionality |
| 17:41.42 | cyberfunk | even things like saving files |
| 17:41.57 | cyberfunk | right, but what i'm saying is a lot of people code one way |
| 17:41.59 | Bor_Ed | gcc fixes that so code doesn't need to know a bit about endianess |
| 17:42.06 | cyberfunk | how? |
| 17:42.14 | cyberfunk | and if it works on the arch they're devving on, then it's all ok |
| 17:42.32 | Bor_Ed | you really need to ask that on gcc mailing list or so, I'm just happy it works |
| 17:43.09 | cyberfunk | i mean.. what does it do for you? |
| 17:43.22 | cyberfunk | like.. i dont understand.. like what does it make easy ? |
| 17:43.36 | Bor_Ed | all the low level mess as with any arch and compiler |
| 17:43.55 | Bor_Ed | if the code is C, it'll work on every box which can compile with gcc regardless of the arch |
| 17:44.24 | cyberfunk | also, i'm reconfigging xfree86 atm... and it's saying "Users of powerpc machines, and users of any computer w/ multi video cards should specify the BusID of the video card in an accepted bus-specific format... |
| 17:44.58 | Bor_Ed | if you give the busid, give it as decimal, not as printed on /proc/fb |
| 17:45.31 | Bor_Ed | just use 'ati' driver and leave busid and ram empty and select 15 bit colors |
| 17:45.36 | cyberfunk | lspci shows a VGA compatible controlle (ATI tech 3d RAGE Pro) |
| 17:45.43 | cyberfunk | at 0000:00:12.0 |
| 17:45.56 | cyberfunk | is that what i should put in ? |
| 17:46.02 | cyberfunk | is says not to leave it blank tho ? |
| 17:46.08 | Bor_Ed | that'd be 0:0:18 if you entered it to busid, though no need to add |
| 17:46.26 | cyberfunk | why 18 ? |
| 17:46.51 | Bor_Ed | the 12 mentioned on lspci is hex value |
| 17:46.55 | cyberfunk | ah |
| 17:47.08 | Bor_Ed | and x conf takes decimal values |
| 17:47.09 | cyberfunk | but it says users of PPC machines should enter it ? |
| 17:47.15 | cyberfunk | should i ignore that ? |
| 17:47.20 | Bor_Ed | ignore that |
| 17:48.52 | cyberfunk | so, fundamentally |
| 17:49.03 | cyberfunk | whats the diff between xorg and xfree86 ? |
| 17:49.07 | cyberfunk | which is better? |
| 17:49.38 | Bor_Ed | xorg has nowadays only gpl compliant license... xf86 dropped that at 4.4 or so |
| 17:49.55 | cyberfunk | y? |
| 17:50.34 | Bor_Ed | RottenHat sponsored or so, haven't really followed |
| 17:50.42 | cyberfunk | ah |
| 17:50.48 | cyberfunk | so is everyone moving to xorg? |
| 17:50.57 | cyberfunk | not a fan of redhat? |
| 17:51.14 | Bor_Ed | slack is probably last of the 'mainstream' distros to ship with xf86 |
| 17:51.26 | cyberfunk | and debian |
| 17:51.33 | cyberfunk | so people are abandoning it politically ? |
| 17:51.37 | Bor_Ed | I used rh in mid 90's, haven't had need to run such afterwards |
| 17:51.40 | cyberfunk | is xorg better? |
| 17:51.47 | Bor_Ed | pretty much because of the license policy |
| 17:51.59 | Bor_Ed | xorg has up to date drivers and so on |
| 17:52.15 | cyberfunk | is there a way to switch to the unstable |
| 17:52.17 | cyberfunk | or testing branch |
| 17:52.21 | cyberfunk | from my current install ? |
| 17:52.21 | Bor_Ed | btw, debian doesn't use xorg in current versions, just on the old ones which still were gpl compliant |
| 17:52.38 | Bor_Ed | yes... though get comfortable with stable before you do so |
| 17:52.39 | cyberfunk | you mean xfree86 |
| 17:52.51 | Bor_Ed | yep, my bad |
| 17:53.02 | cyberfunk | hrm |
| 17:53.08 | cyberfunk | xfree86 aint working so well |
| 17:53.29 | Bor_Ed | it does its job on the onboard gfx |
| 17:53.47 | cyberfunk | ? |
| 17:54.39 | Bor_Ed | with the ati chip you have onboard... it's not faster with xorg driver either |
| 17:54.46 | cyberfunk | no |
| 17:54.59 | cyberfunk | thats not what i mean |
| 17:54.59 | cyberfunk | i mean |
| 17:55.00 | cyberfunk | not working |
| 17:55.02 | cyberfunk | hah |
| 17:55.08 | cyberfunk | well |
| 17:55.10 | cyberfunk | sort of is |
| 17:55.20 | Bor_Ed | it does worl... used that driver for some years :) |
| 17:55.24 | cyberfunk | it gets to a gnome/debian splash screen |
| 17:55.29 | cyberfunk | and then drops out |
| 17:55.29 | cyberfunk | one sec |
| 17:55.33 | cyberfunk | i'm removing gnome |
| 17:55.40 | cyberfunk | cause i like KDE instead |
| 17:55.44 | cyberfunk | and it's extra space |
| 17:55.51 | Bor_Ed | I don't use either of those |
| 17:55.55 | cyberfunk | gonna rerun serv after that |
| 17:55.58 | cyberfunk | whatcha use? |
| 17:56.01 | Bor_Ed | xfce |
| 17:56.17 | Bor_Ed | does the job ok on the resources available |
| 17:56.51 | cyberfunk | what's xfce? |
| 17:56.51 | Bor_Ed | www.xfce.org |
| 17:56.51 | Bor_Ed | included on apt |
| 17:56.52 | cyberfunk | so here's a questiong for you... what the diffreence between a window manager like xfce and KDE/Gnome ? |
| 17:57.01 | cyberfunk | are kde/gnome window managers? |
| 17:57.06 | Bor_Ed | they're all desktop environments... |
| 17:57.20 | Bor_Ed | and xfce just has a small footprint compared to gnome or kde |
| 17:57.22 | cyberfunk | ok... whats the difference between a WM and a desktop environ |
| 17:57.26 | cyberfunk | i never "got" it |
| 17:57.44 | cyberfunk | (small ram footprint ?) |
| 17:57.51 | Bor_Ed | wm handles the window buttons, desktop has taskbars and such in |
| 17:57.56 | *** join/#debianppc Q-FUNK (n=q-funk@dsl-hkigw7-fe10f900-10.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 17:58.05 | cyberfunk | and comes packaged w/ programs ? |
| 17:58.19 | Bor_Ed | pretty often yes |
| 17:58.36 | Bor_Ed | wm's have apps too, though mostly as plugins or such |
| 17:58.53 | demon | GNOME and KDE are more than just the window manager... they have a full API, application embedding and integration, etc... window managers just manage windows |
| 17:59.03 | Bor_Ed | demon: so does xfce |
| 17:59.35 | cyberfunk | application embedding ? |
| 17:59.46 | Bor_Ed | like any K-app |
| 18:00.03 | Bor_Ed | kdevelop, koffice, ksirc and so on |
| 18:00.10 | cyberfunk | right... will those only run on kde? |
| 18:00.13 | demon | but xfce does more than just management of windows... it incldues a window manager (XFWM), but it also includes a desktop bar, file manager, and several other apps |
| 18:00.19 | cyberfunk | or will they run under any WM ? |
| 18:00.20 | Bor_Ed | they run on every wm/desktop |
| 18:00.26 | cyberfunk | but... ? |
| 18:00.39 | Bor_Ed | require the support libs (kde and qt for kde apps) |
| 18:00.40 | demon | just like KDE has KWM, and Gnome has Metacity |
| 18:03.01 | cyberfunk | also, how do i emulate a 3 button mouse w/ my 1 button ADB mouse? |
| 18:03.14 | Bor_Ed | @3 button mouse |
| 18:03.18 | cyberfunk | ? |
| 18:03.21 | Bor_Ed | @3 button emulation |
| 18:03.31 | cyberfunk | huh? |
| 18:03.37 | Bor_Ed | bot knows that... again... but can't get it out from it |
| 18:03.41 | Bor_Ed | simonrvn ?? |
| 18:04.31 | demon | see /proc/sys/dev/mac_hid/* |
| 18:04.43 | Bor_Ed | buggr bot has the help too |
| 18:04.48 | demon | you can use 'showkey' to get the keycodes |
| 18:06.10 | cyberfunk | you know how linux has virtual consoles you can get at w/ alt-FKEY |
| 18:06.12 | cyberfunk | (1-4 |
| 18:06.14 | cyberfunk | ) |
| 18:06.25 | cyberfunk | how come when you start X you cant continue to do that |
| 18:06.36 | cyberfunk | like you cant have your xclient running on one |
| 18:06.40 | cyberfunk | and then alt-F2 |
| 18:06.44 | cyberfunk | over to another blank terminal . |
| 18:06.45 | cyberfunk | ? |
| 18:06.55 | Bor_Ed | ctrl+alt+f1-f6 |
| 18:06.56 | demon | try ctrl-alt-F2 |
| 18:08.17 | *** join/#debianppc Q-FUNK (n=q-funk@dsl-hkigw7-fe10f900-10.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 18:10.20 | cyberfunk | well |
| 18:10.27 | cyberfunk | no opengl accel on THIS card |
| 18:10.28 | cyberfunk | hahah |
| 18:10.35 | cyberfunk | bzflag runs like shit |
| 18:10.36 | Bor_Ed | nope, and won't be either |
| 18:10.45 | cyberfunk | even tho it could support it ? |
| 18:11.27 | Bor_Ed | well, 'support' is pretty nice statement on 64 bit first gen '3d' card with 32 bit wide memory bus |
| 18:12.12 | Bor_Ed | rage128 is about first card to have any acceleration from ati if you want 3d on that box |
| 18:12.35 | cyberfunk | "mouse_button_emu" is set to 0 in /proc/sys/dev/mac_hid/ |
| 18:12.40 | cyberfunk | is that bad ? |
| 18:12.57 | cyberfunk | and the keycodes for mouse2/3 are 97/100 respectively |
| 18:13.31 | Bor_Ed | set the emu to 1 to get the last couple of buttons to work |
| 18:13.42 | cyberfunk | huh ? |
| 18:13.47 | cyberfunk | right |
| 18:13.54 | Bor_Ed | echo "1" > /proc/..... |
| 18:13.54 | cyberfunk | but what are 97/100 ? |
| 18:14.03 | demon | you'll probably want to set the keycodes to the keys you want to use for the second and third mouse buttons first |
| 18:14.04 | Bor_Ed | keycodes to some keys as default |
| 18:14.05 | cyberfunk | (i prefer vim) |
| 18:14.26 | cyberfunk | are the keys modifiers |
| 18:14.32 | cyberfunk | i.e. ones i hold while i click ? |
| 18:14.42 | cyberfunk | or they actually "click" ? |
| 18:14.57 | Bor_Ed | nope, the keys at the keyboard which have the functionality of the buttons |
| 18:15.16 | Bor_Ed | I had f10 and f11 before I got the usb mouse to this box |
| 18:15.30 | Bor_Ed | those keys aren't attached to any important function |
| 18:17.30 | cyberfunk | F10 is 0x44 0xc4 and F11 is 0x57 0xd7 ? |
| 18:17.52 | cyberfunk | why are there hex "pairs" for a single key? |
| 18:17.55 | Bor_Ed | depends on the keyboard layout |
| 18:18.04 | Bor_Ed | one for press and one for release |
| 18:18.17 | demon | the latter has 0x80 masked in, indicating that it's a "key up" event |
| 18:18.29 | cyberfunk | ah |
| 18:18.30 | pahartik | cyberfunk: I recommend F14 and F15 on full size keyboard |
| 18:18.38 | cyberfunk | i have a fullsize |
| 18:18.46 | Bor_Ed | scroll lock and pause gone then? |
| 18:18.57 | cyberfunk | do you need those for anything ? |
| 18:19.09 | cyberfunk | i never understood what either did |
| 18:19.23 | Bor_Ed | scroll lock is handy on console |
| 18:20.16 | pahartik | Bor_Ed: <F10> is used by "aptitude", and "gnome-terminal" |
| 18:20.31 | Bor_Ed | pahartik: ookay |
| 18:20.41 | Bor_Ed | never used either of those apps iirc |
| 18:20.45 | cyberfunk | what does it do (scrll lck) in those progs? |
| 18:21.01 | *** join/#debianppc marculix (n=marculix@gw.ptr-80-238-227-85.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 18:21.23 | cyberfunk | i can run aptitude in a virtual console, that'll be ok, then those keys will revert to their original meaning, right ? |
| 18:21.57 | Bor_Ed | the sysctl hack disables the keys original functions |
| 18:22.36 | cyberfunk | hack |
| 18:22.37 | cyberfunk | ? |
| 18:22.37 | pahartik | Bor_Ed: does <ScrollLock> have some feature better than "<Control>-S" and "<Control>-Q"? |
| 18:22.54 | Bor_Ed | not that I know of :) |
| 18:23.01 | Bor_Ed | but on a single key press |
| 18:25.28 | cyberfunk | so, if i replace the 97/100 in those files w/ a key scancode |
| 18:25.38 | cyberfunk | i'll no longer be able to use those keys for any purpose |
| 18:25.46 | cyberfunk | other than 2/3 clicks? |
| 18:26.14 | cyberfunk | so, given a key scancode.. how would i put it in those files.. they seem to be in decimal... also.. do I want the keydown or keyup scancode? |
| 18:27.59 | Bor_Ed | you can use the keydown hex codes |
| 18:28.15 | cyberfunk | ican use the hex? |
| 18:28.20 | cyberfunk | it seems to be in decimal |
| 18:28.22 | cyberfunk | in the files |
| 18:29.17 | Bor_Ed | you can use the normal hex notation too |
| 19:05.42 | cyberfunk | hey |
| 19:05.49 | cyberfunk | anyone wanna venture advice on installing printers? |
| 19:05.51 | cyberfunk | i installed cups |
| 19:06.00 | cyberfunk | i've got a networked deskjet 6840 |
| 19:06.12 | cyberfunk | one of those jobbies w/ a http page you can go to for config |
| 19:06.14 | cyberfunk | it supports IPP |
| 19:07.06 | *** join/#debianppc Q-FUNK (n=q-funk@dsl-hkigw7-fe10f900-10.dhcp.inet.fi) |
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| 20:05.00 | cyberfunk | hey, so bor, how do i upgrade to sid |
| 20:05.09 | cyberfunk | without wiping and reinstalling ? |
| 20:05.12 | cyberfunk | or etch |
| 20:05.12 | cyberfunk | ? |
| 20:10.08 | pahartik | cyberfunk: by editing "/etc/apt/sources.list" |
| 20:11.05 | cyberfunk | yea... but |
| 20:11.11 | cyberfunk | how do i get everything to update? |
| 20:13.24 | cyberfunk | and do i want to change everything to "testing" where I see "stable" (for etch) |
| 20:13.36 | cyberfunk | even the security listing? |
| 20:14.06 | pahartik | cyberfunk: document in english language at "http://www.nl.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howto/ch-apt-get.en.html#s-dist-upgrade" |
| 20:14.42 | cyberfunk | sooo.. basically |
| 20:14.47 | cyberfunk | i would be retarded |
| 20:14.47 | cyberfunk | thanks |
| 20:15.20 | cyberfunk | that almost deserves a www.justfuckinggoogleit.com link |
| 20:15.30 | cyberfunk | (try it, it exists!) |
| 20:16.25 | pahartik | cyberfunk: I do not really know, I am using packages from stable, testing and unstable, choosing package versions manually in "aptitude"... |
| 20:17.46 | Q-FUNK | pahartik: no package or release pining? |
| 20:18.25 | cyberfunk | huh? |
| 20:20.18 | pahartik | Q-FUNK: actually I have old "/etc/apt/preferences" provided by "upgrade-system" still in place... |
| 20:20.31 | Q-FUNK | oh :) |
| 20:21.23 | cyberfunk | ? |
| 20:23.11 | *** join/#debianppc Mias (i=mias@hannover.ccc.de) |
| 20:25.03 | simonrvn | @+3 buttons |
| 20:25.05 | ravenbird | sysctl -w dev.mac_hid.mouse_button_emulation=1, and dev.mac_hid.mouse_buttonY_keycode=XX -- where XX is a number you get from showkey (in console only), the key you want, and Y is 2 or 3. however, you'll lose functionality of the selected keys for any other use, or to make the change permanent, add the entries to /etc/sysctl.conf - man sysctl.conf, and you can enable it immedi |
| 20:25.05 | ravenbird | ately by running sysctl -p after you've edited sysctl.conf |
| 20:25.54 | simonrvn | do @help if you don't know, and look at listkeys and listvals to find stuff |
| 21:01.14 | *** join/#debianppc benzea_ (n=benzea@p54A3A8CE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 21:25.51 | Patrick` | soo, how would I make quik go to runlevel 1 by default? my box is stuffed up and I need to not actually boot properly |
| 21:26.07 | Patrick` | I'd rtfm but the box that's down is the only one with the quik manpages installed on it |
| 21:27.46 | cyberfunk | quik 's got a website you know.. |
| 21:27.53 | cyberfunk | http://penguinppc.org/bootloaders/quik/ |
| 21:29.13 | Patrick` | yeah, but at this point I'm kind of shattered |
| 21:29.31 | Patrick` | the box is still routing the internet but the hard drive is gone, so everything sort of works as long as I don't mess with it |
| 21:30.03 | cyberfunk | heh |
| 21:30.05 | Patrick` | so is it like a kernel parameter or what? |
| 21:30.05 | cyberfunk | reinstall ? |
| 21:30.16 | cyberfunk | dude, I cant get quik to work at ALL on my box |
| 21:30.18 | Patrick` | cyberfunk, I have a hard drive in it with an outdated copy |
| 21:30.38 | Patrick` | I moved from that hard drive to the new one which has died, the plan is to boot off the old one then sync it up from the backup server |
| 21:30.46 | Patrick` | but if I properly boot into runlevel 2 god knows what'll happen |
| 21:31.11 | cyberfunk | you're out of my league man |
| 21:31.19 | cyberfunk | i barely got debian installed on my tower |
| 21:31.21 | Patrick` | I've just never taken linux straight to runlevel 1 before, I know it's possible and you get a little "enter root password for maintainance or ctrl-d to start normally" prompt |
| 21:31.35 | cyberfunk | and then olnly w/ Bor_Ed's help |
| 21:31.36 | Patrick` | but I dunno how to make that happen |
| 21:31.52 | cyberfunk | dont you use sysctl ? |
| 21:32.01 | Patrick` | no idea |
| 21:32.02 | simonrvn | pahartik: just like other bootloaders, with the 'single' keyword |
| 21:32.07 | cyberfunk | why do you wanna go to rnlvl 1 again ? |
| 21:32.07 | simonrvn | pahartik: sorry |
| 21:32.16 | simonrvn | Patrick`: ^^^ |
| 21:32.20 | Patrick` | cyberfunk: so that all the normal services don't start and have a baby |
| 21:32.43 | cyberfunk | what happens if all the normal services start and have a baby ? |
| 21:32.54 | Patrick` | simonrvn: so in the context of quick, it'd prompt me for an image name and I'd type "Linux single" (for Linux is the name of the bootloader entry) |
| 21:33.15 | simonrvn | you need to do that from OF; type halt at the OF prompt. setenv auto-boot? false; reset-all; boot Linux single |
| 21:33.28 | Patrick` | I don't know if I get one of those |
| 21:33.29 | simonrvn | that's all OF commands |
| 21:33.47 | Patrick` | I just turns it on and the first thing I see is a white screen with black "welcome to quik" lettering |
| 21:34.07 | simonrvn | this assumes you have OF configured to display via the screen, and recieve input from the kbd |
| 21:34.14 | Patrick` | yes, assuming |
| 21:34.26 | simonrvn | yes, you need to type halt before that |
| 21:34.29 | Patrick` | anyway, can't actually see any quik manuals on the penguinppc page, just common settings |
| 21:34.32 | Patrick` | what, type it blind? |
| 21:34.40 | Patrick` | or type it into quik |
| 21:34.47 | cyberfunk | if you zap the pram |
| 21:34.48 | simonrvn | if you have to. |
| 21:34.54 | cyberfunk | you'll get a OF prompt ? |
| 21:34.55 | Patrick` | oh, hell no |
| 21:34.55 | simonrvn | no, don't zap the pram |
| 21:34.58 | Patrick` | then it won't boot |
| 21:34.58 | cyberfunk | haha |
| 21:35.00 | cyberfunk | nm |
| 21:35.04 | cyberfunk | sorry |
| 21:35.05 | cyberfunk | just thinking aloud |
| 21:35.13 | cyberfunk | dont listen to me.. i dunno what i'm talking about |
| 21:35.17 | Patrick` | if I zap the pram, I have to boot off the 2.2 rescue floppy which takes literally 6 or 7 minutes |
| 21:35.23 | cyberfunk | hahahahhaa |
| 21:35.25 | Patrick` | for some reason. |
| 21:35.25 | cyberfunk | then what? |
| 21:35.28 | Patrick` | and I mean literally. |
| 21:35.39 | simonrvn | pahartik: what's the machine? |
| 21:35.41 | Patrick` | then I get presented with a login dialog and I re-run ofsettings and quik |
| 21:35.43 | simonrvn | pahartik: sorry |
| 21:35.43 | Patrick` | simonrvn: 4400 |
| 21:35.47 | Patrick` | oldworld |
| 21:36.05 | simonrvn | Patrick`: does it accept cmd-opt-o-f as a key combo? |
| 21:36.11 | cyberfunk | what i wanna know is why the hell i cant get quik to run on my beiege G3 tower.... you all suppose it's cause i'm booting from an IDE drive? |
| 21:36.12 | Patrick` | to power on with? |
| 21:36.14 | Patrick` | no idea. |
| 21:36.15 | simonrvn | yes |
| 21:36.30 | cyberfunk | the 4400 is all SCSI isnt it? |
| 21:36.31 | simonrvn | i think it's some version of 2, so you might be able to |
| 21:36.31 | Patrick` | I'll try but failing that I'll just let it wreak havok in init 2 then do init 1 manually |
| 21:36.34 | Patrick` | and clean up the mess |
| 21:36.40 | Patrick` | cyberfunk: close, it has a scsi bus, but I have IDE |
| 21:36.41 | simonrvn | cyberfunk: that doesn't matter |
| 21:37.24 | Patrick` | and do "setenv auto-boot? false; reset-all; boot Linux single" |
| 21:37.28 | simonrvn | 'cause if to does, you don't have to mess with sentenv auto-boot? false |
| 21:37.32 | Patrick` | just so that line is on my screen when the web fails |
| 21:37.36 | simonrvn | setenv* |
| 21:37.51 | simonrvn | doing the cmd-opt-o-f combo i mean |
| 21:39.54 | Patrick` | aye |
| 21:40.01 | Patrick` | plus powering on the machin |
| 21:40.07 | cyberfunk | ignore the pm simon |
| 21:40.11 | Patrick` | which means hitting the poweron button on the keyboard with my face |
| 21:40.15 | Patrick` | as both arms are occupie |
| 21:40.21 | cyberfunk | hahahhahaha |
| 21:40.25 | Patrick` | no, I'm not making this up, I have to do it to zap the prom as well |
| 21:40.26 | simonrvn | different OF version; combined with a fubar ide chipset, makes it so that it's difficult to boot directly off the ide bus from OF |
| 21:40.30 | simonrvn | cyberfunk: ^^ |
| 21:40.39 | Patrick` | oh, and I personally won't go, this is a shellhost |
| 21:40.41 | simonrvn | use one hand |
| 21:40.42 | cyberfunk | apple/option/OF can be done w/ one hand |
| 21:40.48 | Patrick` | but I'll be decidedly offline |
| 21:40.52 | Patrick` | haha, not copr though |
| 21:41.14 | Patrick` | I remember being reduced to tears because I kept pressing alt instead of option and it wouldn't reset |
| 21:41.18 | simonrvn | -p-r is a stretch |
| 21:41.28 | cyberfunk | hahahaha |
| 21:41.31 | simonrvn | alt is opt on a mac kbd |
| 21:41.36 | cyberfunk | PR is easy |
| 21:41.46 | cyberfunk | i've done both onehanded |
| 21:41.53 | cyberfunk | besides |
| 21:42.02 | cyberfunk | you have a half sec from power on to hit the keys |
| 21:42.09 | cyberfunk | it doesnt have the be at exactly the same time |
| 21:42.19 | simonrvn | yeh, it doesn't have to be *right away* as very quickly ;) |
| 21:42.28 | simonrvn | s,as,just, |
| 21:42.40 | Patrick` | oh, doy. |
| 21:43.26 | cyberfunk | so, simon, you're telling me I cant use quik on my machine, period ? |
| 21:43.47 | cyberfunk | also, what chat client are you guys using, out of curiosity ? |
| 21:43.54 | simonrvn | no. just not from ide. you can from the scsi bus. i'm booting my beige g3 from a pci scsi card |
| 21:44.10 | cyberfunk | all i have is SCSI drives in there |
| 21:44.25 | simonrvn | in OF it shows as /pic/Apple53c875Card/ |
| 21:44.28 | simonrvn | pci* |
| 21:44.30 | cyberfunk | and how come debian didnt recognize my internal IDE cdrom drive, or my external cdrom drive? |
| 21:44.40 | cyberfunk | I mean, all I have is IDE drives in there |
| 21:44.43 | cyberfunk | IDE hard drives |
| 21:44.51 | simonrvn | it should have |
| 21:45.05 | simonrvn | you using the sarge, or etch stuff? |
| 21:45.11 | cyberfunk | sargh |
| 21:45.14 | cyberfunk | sarge |
| 21:45.19 | cyberfunk | should be using etch ? |
| 21:45.22 | simonrvn | definitely should have |
| 21:45.27 | simonrvn | no |
| 21:45.35 | cyberfunk | is etch sketchy ? |
| 21:45.39 | cyberfunk | (hehehe, get it ?) |
| 21:45.50 | simonrvn | yeh, right now yes (yes i do get it ;) |
| 21:46.00 | cyberfunk | sketchy just for install ? |
| 21:46.05 | simonrvn | yeh |
| 21:46.05 | cyberfunk | or in general ? |
| 21:46.26 | cyberfunk | so, i just changed my sources from everything that said "stable" to "testing" |
| 21:46.34 | cyberfunk | and ran apt-get update |
| 21:46.49 | cyberfunk | and then apt-get dist-upgrade |
| 21:46.57 | simonrvn | just make sure you run the dist-upgrade from aptitude. it should be a lot smoother |
| 21:47.25 | simonrvn | @e2fsprogs |
| 21:47.56 | cyberfunk | uh |
| 21:47.58 | cyberfunk | too late? |
| 21:48.03 | cyberfunk | i ran it from the command line |
| 21:48.06 | simonrvn | @e2fsprogs is <reply>e2fsprogs is http://bugs.debian.org/325834 |
| 21:48.07 | ravenbird | simonrvn: okay |
| 21:48.25 | *** join/#debianppc marculix (n=marculix@gw.ptr-80-238-227-85.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 21:48.29 | cyberfunk | what client are you using guys ? does it automatically put in things like "simonrvn:" ? |
| 21:48.37 | simonrvn | eh, won't matter unless you encounter that upgrade bug (see above for e2fsprogs) |
| 21:49.04 | simonrvn | i'm using x-chat. my preferred one is irssi. that's called tab completion |
| 21:49.21 | simonrvn | you do cyb<tab> it'll fill in the rest |
| 21:49.25 | simonrvn | cyberfunk: |
| 21:49.47 | simonrvn | useful from the shell too ;) |
| 21:50.21 | cyberfunk | i'm using xchat too |
| 21:50.27 | cyberfunk | yea, i use it in the shell all the time |
| 21:50.30 | cyberfunk | :) |
| 21:50.37 | cyberfunk | it doesnt work for me tho |
| 21:50.55 | cyberfunk | i just tried "simon<tab>" |
| 21:51.04 | cyberfunk | and it just highlighted the text |
| 21:51.12 | cyberfunk | i'm using x-chat aqua ? |
| 21:51.18 | simonrvn | oh, i don't know |
| 21:51.26 | simonrvn | mine's the linux client |
| 21:51.40 | simonrvn | you might have to enable it from the prefs |
| 21:52.07 | cyberfunk | mmm |
| 21:56.54 | cyberfunk | whoa |
| 21:56.57 | cyberfunk | big question |
| 21:57.01 | cyberfunk | i'm upgradeing to etch |
| 21:57.05 | cyberfunk | and it says |
| 21:57.13 | cyberfunk | my ppc arch supports more than one bootloader |
| 21:57.15 | cyberfunk | please choose |
| 21:57.21 | cyberfunk | quik or mkvmlinz |
| 21:57.27 | cyberfunk | which one |
| 21:57.28 | cyberfunk | ? |
| 21:57.46 | simonrvn | stick with quik for now. i don't know mkvmlinuz |
| 21:57.52 | cyberfunk | but remember |
| 21:57.56 | cyberfunk | quik doesnt work on mine |
| 21:57.59 | cyberfunk | IDE drives |
| 21:58.23 | cyberfunk | http://packages.debian.org/unstable/devel/mkvmlinuz |
| 21:58.35 | simonrvn | install tha latter afterwards and read its docs, 'cause i don't know |
| 21:58.49 | cyberfunk | CAN I install it later? |
| 21:58.51 | simonrvn | i've gotten around the issue by using a pci scsi card |
| 21:58.53 | cyberfunk | like is that an option ? |
| 21:59.03 | simonrvn | maybe. never hurts to try ;) |
| 21:59.36 | simonrvn | yup. i have it installed |
| 21:59.49 | cyberfunk | what what installed? |
| 21:59.53 | cyberfunk | have what |
| 21:59.55 | cyberfunk | rather |
| 22:00.01 | cyberfunk | arnt you using quik ? |
| 22:00.27 | cyberfunk | it says it creates something you can boot from openfirmware |
| 22:00.35 | cyberfunk | how do you boot something from openfirmware? |
| 22:00.42 | cyberfunk | like, I do not know any OF commands |
| 22:00.48 | cyberfunk | is there a guide or something ? |
| 22:00.56 | cyberfunk | because the debian install for PPC is woefully out of date |
| 22:01.22 | simonrvn | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:01.22 | simonrvn | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:01.22 | simonrvn | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:02.17 | simonrvn | option -a: coff The COFF format is understood by the Open Firmware of many OldWorld PowerMacs. You will need it if you intend to boot a Linux kernel directly from Open Firmware. Note that you can also choose between a variety of boot loaders for that platform, such as quik, BootX, and miBoot. |
| 22:02.54 | cyberfunk | where's this info from ? |
| 22:03.12 | cyberfunk | i'm saying... say i do install mkvmlinuz |
| 22:03.20 | cyberfunk | then how would i use it from OF? |
| 22:03.46 | simonrvn | man mkvmlinuz |
| 22:04.04 | simonrvn | i have no idea :) |
| 22:04.19 | simonrvn | i'm assuming you use the boot-file OF setting |
| 22:05.23 | simonrvn | i'm not sure if that would help anything. it's an OF and IDE chipset bug, in combo. my educated guess would be that you're SOL anyway |
| 22:05.51 | simonrvn | you can always try, and prove me wrong =) |
| 22:06.10 | cyberfunk | no i mean |
| 22:06.11 | cyberfunk | like |
| 22:06.16 | cyberfunk | i wouldnt know what literally, to type |
| 22:06.20 | cyberfunk | at the OF prompt |
| 22:06.25 | cyberfunk | i dont know my way around OF at all |
| 22:06.35 | simonrvn | sec |
| 22:08.03 | simonrvn | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:08.09 | simonrvn | also |
| 22:08.37 | cyberfunk | holy shit |
| 22:08.51 | cyberfunk | jebus.. is there any easy way to find the info just to boot an os ? |
| 22:08.57 | simonrvn | @srs /docs/pdf/ |
| 22:08.58 | ravenbird | http://simonraven.nuit.ca//docs/pdf/ |
| 22:09.14 | simonrvn | see the fundam_of_OF_part_*.pdf |
| 22:10.52 | cyberfunk | this is all stuff for like device driver writers |
| 22:10.57 | cyberfunk | it's way over my head |
| 22:10.58 | cyberfunk | :( |
| 22:11.09 | simonrvn | oh, i forgot i did '/' on the end of that ... |
| 22:11.20 | simonrvn | well, here's a few |
| 22:11.36 | simonrvn | setenv is setting an option, seen from printenv |
| 22:11.57 | simonrvn | so, say, setenv boot-device /some/device/hd@0:8 |
| 22:12.17 | simonrvn | you can also see and set them with nvsetenv in linux |
| 22:12.48 | simonrvn | reset-all is a warm reboot, also saves the OF settings |
| 22:12.58 | cyberfunk | what's /some/device/hd@0:8 mean / |
| 22:12.58 | cyberfunk | ? |
| 22:13.00 | simonrvn | shut-down you can shut the machine down |
| 22:13.26 | simonrvn | it's the OF path to some IDE drive, plus the partition |
| 22:13.34 | simonrvn | the :8 is the partition |
| 22:13.39 | cyberfunk | OF paths are ... wierd arnt they ? |
| 22:13.41 | simonrvn | er, the part after the : |
| 22:14.13 | simonrvn | no, they look just like *nix paths; it's the device paths (say on an HDD) that look weird |
| 22:14.25 | simonrvn | them they're \foo\bar\ |
| 22:14.51 | simonrvn | devalias shows you what devices have shortcut aliases |
| 22:15.18 | simonrvn | like instead of /pci/mac-io/bleh/bleh it'll be ata-int or something |
| 22:15.46 | cyberfunk | ok |
| 22:15.52 | cyberfunk | but when i boot from a partition |
| 22:15.56 | cyberfunk | or something |
| 22:16.07 | simonrvn | dev /some/path ls means to temporarily change to that path and show a listing (like *nix ls) |
| 22:16.09 | cyberfunk | do have to tell it what file to look for to boot off of |
| 22:17.25 | simonrvn | not really, but i like to set boot-file to what i have in quik.conf/yaboot.conf asa default image - say i have "label=Linux" in quik.conf for the default image. i'll insert 'Linux' in the boot-file setting |
| 22:17.27 | cyberfunk | like do i have to be like setenv boot-device /some/device/hd@0:8\boot\vmlinuz? |
| 22:17.47 | simonrvn | you need a semi-colon after the 8 |
| 22:17.48 | cyberfunk | huh ? |
| 22:17.56 | cyberfunk | what's the 0 ? |
| 22:18.05 | simonrvn | first device on that bus |
| 22:18.20 | cyberfunk | and what's /some/device? |
| 22:18.21 | simonrvn | but that's just an example anyway, it won't do anything |
| 22:18.41 | cyberfunk | huh ? |
| 22:18.43 | simonrvn | boot-file Linux |
| 22:18.48 | cyberfunk | dude |
| 22:18.51 | cyberfunk | you totally lost me |
| 22:18.58 | cyberfunk | sorry |
| 22:19.06 | simonrvn | sorry :). |
| 22:19.15 | cyberfunk | ok.. pretend i dont know shit about OF |
| 22:19.18 | cyberfunk | which i really dont |
| 22:19.24 | cyberfunk | other than it's a preboot environment |
| 22:19.29 | simonrvn | that's what i'm doing, or trying to |
| 22:19.33 | simonrvn | heh |
| 22:19.39 | cyberfunk | ok ok |
| 22:19.46 | cyberfunk | so i drop into OF |
| 22:19.52 | cyberfunk | say I want to boot a linux kernel |
| 22:19.53 | simonrvn | i'm not too good at explaining sometimes |
| 22:20.01 | cyberfunk | i'm not too good at understand ;) |
| 22:20.07 | cyberfunk | understanding |
| 22:20.59 | cyberfunk | i do NOT have quik installed |
| 22:21.03 | simonrvn | the basic settings you need are boot-device |
| 22:21.08 | cyberfunk | wait wait |
| 22:21.10 | cyberfunk | settings |
| 22:21.12 | cyberfunk | what settings |
| 22:21.15 | cyberfunk | settings for what? |
| 22:21.15 | simonrvn | OF |
| 22:21.24 | cyberfunk | ok |
| 22:21.28 | cyberfunk | ... |
| 22:21.40 | cyberfunk | boot-device points at a device or a file ? |
| 22:21.48 | cyberfunk | ( i know that sounds like a dumb questin) |
| 22:22.02 | cyberfunk | but what i mean, is it a device itself, like a hard drive, or a file on it? |
| 22:22.08 | simonrvn | i think os x has nvram or some other command to show you the nvram settings (nvram is OF's) |
| 22:22.20 | cyberfunk | i dont have osx |
| 22:22.29 | cyberfunk | i have OF |
| 22:22.33 | cyberfunk | and mac os 9 |
| 22:22.51 | simonrvn | it's the full path to a device, plus partition. though quik doesn't use the partition part (after ':' ) |
| 22:23.11 | cyberfunk | wait.. is quik something that's resident in OF ? |
| 22:23.15 | cyberfunk | or on the hard drive? |
| 22:23.42 | cyberfunk | i zapped my pram after i installed quik and it didnt work.. so I got rid of it, right ? |
| 22:23.47 | simonrvn | you'll need 'System Disk'; |
| 22:23.57 | simonrvn | @srs src/macos/SystemDisk2.3.1.smi.bin |
| 22:23.58 | ravenbird | http://simonraven.nuit.ca/src/macos/SystemDisk2.3.1.smi.bin |
| 22:24.01 | cyberfunk | yea |
| 22:24.03 | cyberfunk | i have that |
| 22:24.05 | cyberfunk | what for? |
| 22:24.15 | simonrvn | no quik isn't resident in OF. OF calls quik as a client |
| 22:24.17 | simonrvn | ok |
| 22:24.41 | simonrvn | client here meaning it's a further stage |
| 22:24.53 | cyberfunk | could I engage quik from OF? |
| 22:24.55 | simonrvn | quik lives on the HDD |
| 22:24.57 | cyberfunk | ok |
| 22:25.04 | simonrvn | not directly |
| 22:25.09 | cyberfunk | oh |
| 22:25.25 | simonrvn | this is how it goes |
| 22:25.27 | cyberfunk | but apparently what i can do w/ this mkvmlinuz thing is directly boot the kernel |
| 22:25.28 | cyberfunk | ? |
| 22:25.35 | cyberfunk | ok.. |
| 22:25.55 | simonrvn | boot: power on -> OF does its stuff -> calls quik -> quik calls the kernel |
| 22:26.17 | cyberfunk | ok, that much i already understand |
| 22:26.24 | simonrvn | this is what a bootloader is. it loads the kernel into RAM |
| 22:26.27 | cyberfunk | right |
| 22:26.31 | cyberfunk | i get that much |
| 22:26.31 | simonrvn | ok |
| 22:27.17 | simonrvn | yeh. i'm just not sure how it would be done. someone explained this to me once, but i don't remember the details. i *think* it would be via the boot-device OF setting |
| 22:27.29 | cyberfunk | but will it work w/ me ? |
| 22:27.31 | simonrvn | so, say i was to use mkvmlinuz |
| 22:27.32 | cyberfunk | oldworld ? |
| 22:27.47 | cyberfunk | .. |
| 22:27.49 | simonrvn | i would do: |
| 22:28.30 | simonrvn | nvsetenv boot-device /pci/Apple53C875Card/sd@0:8;\boot\vmlinux (or whatever the final mkvmlinuz file is called) |
| 22:28.55 | simonrvn | yes, oldworld |
| 22:29.14 | simonrvn | i have a beige g3 tower here. probably the same mobo revision as yours |
| 22:29.31 | cyberfunk | you use mkvmlinuz or quik / |
| 22:29.32 | cyberfunk | ? |
| 22:29.37 | cyberfunk | oh yea, quik you said |
| 22:29.38 | simonrvn | i use quik, because i can |
| 22:29.42 | cyberfunk | but you have SCSI |
| 22:29.50 | simonrvn | yeh, and it's pci |
| 22:29.52 | cyberfunk | yea, did I mention you suck for having a SCSI drive around ?> |
| 22:29.58 | cyberfunk | so what if it's PCi ? |
| 22:29.58 | simonrvn | hehe |
| 22:30.10 | cyberfunk | what's "sd" ? |
| 22:30.13 | simonrvn | mesh is a bit picky, and it's slower than the pci cards i have |
| 22:30.18 | simonrvn | scsi device |
| 22:30.25 | cyberfunk | and what is "/pci/Apple53C875Card/" |
| 22:30.29 | cyberfunk | the OF path ? |
| 22:31.01 | simonrvn | "/pci" is the PCI bus, the "/Apple53C875Card" is the PCI card |
| 22:31.04 | cyberfunk | how do i find the OF path for my ext2 linux install partition ? |
| 22:31.12 | simonrvn | er, drop the slashes :) |
| 22:31.19 | cyberfunk | how did you know that ? |
| 22:31.30 | cyberfunk | like how did you know "Apple53C875Card" |
| 22:31.36 | simonrvn | i saw it in OF. you can also see it in /proc/device-tree in linux |
| 22:32.25 | simonrvn | in proc as well as OF it'll show as |
| 22:32.27 | simonrvn | /proc/device-tree/pci@80000000/Apple53C875Card@F |
| 22:32.35 | simonrvn | er, in /proc only, sorry |
| 22:32.42 | simonrvn | in OF it'll show as |
| 22:32.51 | simonrvn | /pci@80000000/Apple53C875Card@F |
| 22:33.06 | cyberfunk | what's @80000000 ? |
| 22:33.15 | simonrvn | not sure. |
| 22:33.37 | simonrvn | it's *usually* not needed for our purposes |
| 22:33.59 | simonrvn | everything after the @ |
| 22:34.05 | simonrvn | INCLUDING THE @ |
| 22:34.14 | simonrvn | woops, sorry for the caps |
| 22:34.49 | simonrvn | i think it refers to the full OF address |
| 22:35.18 | demon | in a PCI device, that's the memory address where its I/O space is mapped to |
| 22:35.25 | simonrvn | so the complete path would include the @XXXXXX, but OF groks the path without those |
| 22:35.27 | cyberfunk | so, before i reboot |
| 22:35.31 | cyberfunk | after this upgrade |
| 22:35.31 | demon | for MacIO devices, it indicates its offset on the bus |
| 22:35.31 | simonrvn | ah ok, thanks |
| 22:35.37 | simonrvn | ok |
| 22:35.41 | cyberfunk | what should i look for |
| 22:35.41 | simonrvn | hi demon :) |
| 22:35.52 | cyberfunk | to make sure i dont fuck myself into an unbootable posistion ? |
| 22:35.57 | cyberfunk | what info should i take down ? |
| 22:36.26 | simonrvn | well, since you zapped the PRAM, you'll need to re-set the settings. you can use nvsetenv from debian |
| 22:36.55 | simonrvn | you'll need to figure out what device your rootfs (/) is |
| 22:37.14 | cyberfunk | do i need to RUN mkvmlinuz? |
| 22:37.21 | cyberfunk | is it a tool to make a bootable kernal ? |
| 22:37.22 | cyberfunk | kernel |
| 22:37.27 | simonrvn | you can try to do ofpath - no - /dev/hdwhatever |
| 22:37.40 | cyberfunk | huh? |
| 22:38.17 | simonrvn | where's your / ? |
| 22:38.30 | simonrvn | what device (/dev/hdXXX)? |
| 22:38.32 | cyberfunk | w/out the "no" ? |
| 22:38.37 | cyberfunk | oh |
| 22:38.40 | cyberfunk | uh |
| 22:38.45 | cyberfunk | i think it's /dev/hda |
| 22:38.48 | cyberfunk | but how do i make sure ? |
| 22:38.56 | cyberfunk | mount ? |
| 22:38.58 | simonrvn | hdaXX ? 'mount' command |
| 22:39.07 | cyberfunk | /dev/hda2 |
| 22:39.18 | simonrvn | ok. so you'd do ofpath /dev/hda2 |
| 22:39.32 | simonrvn | and hopefully it's supported ;) |
| 22:39.42 | simonrvn | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:39.42 | simonrvn | ofpath: Driver sym53c8xx is not supported |
| 22:39.46 | simonrvn | for mine |
| 22:39.51 | cyberfunk | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:39.57 | simonrvn | ah, there we go |
| 22:40.00 | cyberfunk | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:40.01 | cyberfunk | rather |
| 22:40.05 | simonrvn | so, boot-device is: |
| 22:40.22 | simonrvn | /pci/mac-io/ide/ata-disk@0:2 |
| 22:40.36 | cyberfunk | ok |
| 22:40.41 | cyberfunk | what about the stuff after it ? |
| 22:40.54 | simonrvn | what stuff? |
| 22:41.41 | cyberfunk | the path to the image file to boot ? |
| 22:42.03 | simonrvn | oh, um, that you'll need to run the mkvmlinuz command with the right options |
| 22:42.16 | simonrvn | for -a, use coff |
| 22:42.29 | simonrvn | stands for XCOFF images |
| 22:43.11 | simonrvn | don't bother with the System.map stuff, it'll bloat your image |
| 22:43.43 | simonrvn | oh, and always make sure you have some floppies ready to boot from if this stuff doesn't work ;) |
| 22:44.15 | cyberfunk | uh ? |
| 22:44.21 | cyberfunk | how do i boot off floppies? |
| 22:44.26 | *** join/#debianppc xbaez (n=xbaez@201.137.176.153) |
| 22:44.31 | simonrvn | just in case it doesn't boot. you can boot from floppy |
| 22:44.48 | cyberfunk | i can ? |
| 22:44.49 | cyberfunk | how? |
| 22:44.50 | simonrvn | like any other box with a bootable floppy drive. |
| 22:44.55 | simonrvn | yeh, of course |
| 22:45.02 | cyberfunk | i've never booted from floppy on this thing |
| 22:45.14 | simonrvn | from mac os i assume? |
| 22:45.35 | cyberfunk | a? |
| 22:45.37 | cyberfunk | ? |
| 22:45.43 | Patrick` | the hard drive wasn't dead after a reboot |
| 22:45.48 | Patrick` | but I'm doing daily backups from now on |
| 22:46.00 | simonrvn | Patrick`: oh cool. always a good idea |
| 22:46.07 | cyberfunk | he's gone |
| 22:46.15 | cyberfunk | :/ |
| 22:46.16 | simonrvn | yeh i was too slow |
| 22:46.39 | cyberfunk | wait |
| 22:46.45 | cyberfunk | so.. mkvmlinuz |
| 22:46.48 | cyberfunk | outputs a file |
| 22:46.54 | cyberfunk | that i need to load from openfirmware? |
| 22:47.06 | simonrvn | yes |
| 22:47.09 | cyberfunk | ok |
| 22:47.16 | cyberfunk | where do i put the file that it outputs? |
| 22:47.29 | cyberfunk | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:48.06 | simonrvn | yeh, always good place |
| 22:48.23 | simonrvn | well, i'm getting errors with my copy of mkvmlinuz ... |
| 22:48.27 | *** join/#debianppc meta-ridley (n=meta@blk-222-129-24.eastlink.ca) |
| 22:48.27 | *** join/#debianppc Q-FUNK (n=q-funk@dsl-hkigw7-fe10f900-10.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 22:49.06 | cyberfunk | doign what? |
| 22:49.14 | meta-ridley | i upgraded to 2.6.17-rc6 and now dev.mac_hid.mouse doesn't work |
| 22:49.20 | simonrvn | it's got bashisms ... |
| 22:49.38 | cyberfunk | wtf is a bashism ? |
| 22:49.49 | meta-ridley | does anyone know why? |
| 22:50.01 | meta-ridley | im wondering if something changed in the kernel |
| 22:50.12 | simonrvn | a bashism is a shell script command that's specific to the bash shell, and isn't portable to other more POSIX-compliant shells |
| 22:50.23 | cyberfunk | run bash ? |
| 22:50.41 | cyberfunk | man mkvmlinuz |
| 22:50.43 | simonrvn | meta-ridley: did you forget 3 mouse buttons support? |
| 22:50.51 | simonrvn | cyberfunk: i did. i edited the hash bang |
| 22:50.51 | meta-ridley | i did make oldconfig |
| 22:50.57 | cyberfunk | says that "output" is some sort of script ? |
| 22:51.00 | meta-ridley | maybe it got left out |
| 22:51.08 | cyberfunk | i dont understant.. is it a script or an output file ? |
| 22:52.43 | meta-ridley | simonrvn: is 3 button support a kernel option? |
| 22:52.51 | simonrvn | yes |
| 22:53.04 | simonrvn | mkvmlinuz is a script |
| 22:56.56 | simonrvn | the "output" file is a sourced file |
| 22:57.18 | cyberfunk | "sourced" ? |
| 22:57.35 | cyberfunk | you mean included into the script ? |
| 22:57.54 | cyberfunk | (I really dont know shell scripting either... my linux knowledge is really a poor excuse for knowledge) |
| 22:58.14 | cyberfunk | i ran mkvmlinz |
| 22:58.17 | cyberfunk | i ran mkvmlinuz |
| 22:58.22 | cyberfunk | and it created a file |
| 22:58.42 | cyberfunk | at /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.8-powerpc |
| 22:59.00 | cyberfunk | ( i ran mkvmlinuz -a coff |
| 22:59.03 | cyberfunk | ) |
| 22:59.21 | simonrvn | ok |
| 23:00.32 | cyberfunk | should i try to reboot into OF now ? |
| 23:00.58 | simonrvn | set your boot-device first |
| 23:01.15 | cyberfunk | ? |
| 23:01.16 | simonrvn | with the additional info: ;\boot\vmlinuz-whatever |
| 23:01.31 | cyberfunk | from linuz? |
| 23:01.33 | cyberfunk | linux |
| 23:01.42 | cyberfunk | ? |
| 23:01.53 | simonrvn | yes |
| 23:02.15 | simonrvn | oh, wait |
| 23:02.53 | simonrvn | you know what? let me do some googling first (you could too). i just thought of something |
| 23:03.11 | cyberfunk | i've been googlign left and right |
| 23:03.16 | demon | er, isn't it a comma, not a semicolon? |
| 23:03.42 | cyberfunk | but you guys are far more valuable than google |
| 23:03.53 | demon | ofpath@node:part,\fspath |
| 23:03.54 | simonrvn | yeh, you're probably right dem |
| 23:03.56 | simonrvn | on |
| 23:04.23 | simonrvn | 2578, /trunk/utils/mkvmlinuz/, luther, 5 months, Works for 2.4 chrp kernels now, prep and pmac/coff todo still, altough 2.4 is broken on prep. ... |
| 23:04.41 | simonrvn | http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/kernel/trunk/utils/mkvmlinuz/?op=log&rev=0&sc=0&isdir=1 |
| 23:05.00 | cyberfunk | huh? |
| 23:05.03 | cyberfunk | i'm lost again |
| 23:05.05 | cyberfunk | :( |
| 23:07.50 | simonrvn | doesn't work for pmac coff |
| 23:08.01 | cyberfunk | what doesnt? |
| 23:09.37 | cyberfunk | do i want to reboot into openfirmware? |
| 23:12.10 | simonrvn | wait |
| 23:12.19 | simonrvn | i just fetched the SVN stuff for it |
| 23:14.14 | cyberfunk | huh ? |
| 23:16.04 | simonrvn | i'm trying to see if i can add the pmac/coff support to mkvmlinuz |
| 23:18.09 | *** join/#debianppc mirak (n=mirak@AAubervilliers-152-1-82-60.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 23:21.57 | cyberfunk | it seems to work fine here |
| 23:22.38 | cyberfunk | while you're doing that... i need to copy over my kernel and my initrd so that I can make sure i can boot from bootX in case this all goes sour |
| 23:22.53 | cyberfunk | but i have a small technical difficulty |
| 23:23.31 | cyberfunk | my os9 disk (different disk) |
| 23:23.36 | cyberfunk | is hfsplus |
| 23:23.53 | cyberfunk | i'm mounting w/ mount -t hfsplus /dev/hdd6 /mnt/os9 |
| 23:24.12 | cyberfunk | but i get a warning that the FS is readonly because it was not cleanly unmounted |
| 23:24.28 | cyberfunk | and it wants me to run fsck.hfsplus |
| 23:24.40 | cyberfunk | but i dont HAVE fsck.hfsplus |
| 23:25.12 | cyberfunk | (i.e. when I run fsck -t hfsplus on the mount point, it claims it cant find the fsck.hfsplus file and dies) |
| 23:25.17 | cyberfunk | ideas/suggestions? |
| 23:25.50 | demon | you can't fsck an hfs/hfs+ filesystem in linux, the tools aren't available |
| 23:25.58 | cyberfunk | FSCK! |
| 23:26.04 | cyberfunk | so what do i do ? |
| 23:26.10 | demon | you'd have to boot into MacOS and let it repair it |
| 23:26.26 | cyberfunk | i cant do that |
| 23:26.36 | cyberfunk | because then i may not be able to get back to linux |
| 23:26.52 | cyberfunk | i need to copy over the kernel and initrd |
| 23:27.01 | cyberfunk | or else i risk never being able to get back |
| 23:32.03 | simonrvn | meh |
| 23:32.15 | cyberfunk | fck |
| 23:32.16 | cyberfunk | brb |
| 23:32.22 | simonrvn | of course you can. just use bootx |
| 23:33.06 | simonrvn | ok, some stuff came up, i have go do other stuff |
| 23:53.23 | cyberfunk | yea |
| 23:53.27 | cyberfunk | i cant get back w/ bootx |