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| 00:24.01 | *** topic/#debianppc is Welcome to #debianppc, the channel for the Debian GNU/Linux PowerPC port: http://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc. FAQs: Debian CDs are not and cannot be bootable on OldWorld PowerMacs. Info on proper partitioning can be found at http://www.alaska.net/~erbenson/doc/mac-fdisk-basics.txt, the yaboot HOWTO can be found at http://www.alaska.net/~erbenson/doc/yaboot-howto.html. | OFTC move: http://tinyurl.com/zehar ; http://tinyurl.com/jtozx |
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| 03:01.47 | *** join/#debianppc RainbowW (n=rainbow@adsl-68-94-46-42.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 03:05.59 | RainbowW | okay so, old world mac is getting as far as detecting a cd-rom, which the thing does not do. is burning the iso on a windows box a problem? i'm guessing not. do i need to use the full binary-1 cd, or can i use the netinst version? or, where do i go from here? |
| 03:11.20 | mick_linux | you need to boot from a floppy |
| 03:11.41 | RainbowW | why? |
| 03:12.27 | RainbowW | i'm using bootx and getting as far as attempting to find the cd, which means the kernel i have does work. and it does detect the cdrom drive. |
| 03:16.43 | mick_linux | OldWorld Macs need a floppy to boot |
| 03:16.45 | mick_linux | http://www.us.debian.org/releases/woody/powerpc/ch-rescue-boot.en.html#s-install-cd |
| 03:17.24 | mick_linux | that has been my experience |
| 03:19.57 | RainbowW | i've been trying to do (same page) 5.4.2. |
| 03:19.59 | pahartik | RainbowW: you can get to installer shell? |
| 03:20.06 | RainbowW | pahartik: yes. |
| 03:21.27 | pahartik | RainbowW: are modules for on-board SCSI adapters loaded? |
| 03:22.18 | RainbowW | looking. |
| 03:23.07 | mick_linux | i used quik, not bootx so that might be why i had to boot from a floppy (i didn't have an OSX install to work from either) |
| 03:23.14 | RainbowW | attached scsi disk sda at scsi0, channel 0, id 0, lun 0. looks like it works. |
| 03:23.18 | RainbowW | i'm starting with os 8.5. |
| 03:23.45 | RainbowW | it also found the cdrom drive. |
| 03:24.48 | RainbowW | that is why i'm thinking i don't need a floppy. |
| 03:24.51 | pahartik | RainbowW: how about "cdrom" and "sr_mod" modules? |
| 03:26.21 | RainbowW | cdrom nothing so far. hda, atapi 24x cd-rom drive. sr_mod, no hit. |
| 03:26.53 | pahartik | RainbowW: oh, so it is IDE CD-ROM device? |
| 03:27.12 | RainbowW | apparently. this is a ppc g3 7200. |
| 03:29.19 | pahartik | RainbowW: CPU on PowerMacintosh 7200 cannot be easily upgraded... |
| 03:29.32 | RainbowW | uh. |
| 03:29.43 | RainbowW | i don't remember trying to upgrade the cpu. |
| 03:30.00 | RainbowW | i'm trying to install sarge. |
| 03:30.47 | pahartik | RainbowW: if you did not upgrade, it is supposed to have PowerPC 601 CPU |
| 03:32.22 | sloopy | 7200 with a G3? interesting |
| 03:32.24 | RainbowW | according to the sticker on the back, it's a pcc g3 266 w/a 512 cache and it shipped with 32 mb and a 4g hdd and a 24x cd, with a zip drive. looks like the ram has been upgraded. i have no idea how big the drive is but 4g is sufficient for my needs. |
| 03:32.38 | RainbowW | ppc rather |
| 03:32.51 | pahartik | RainbowW: anyway, since installer starts up, have you tried skipping CD-ROM and installing directly from nearest Debian archive FTP or HTTP mirror? |
| 03:33.02 | sloopy | sounds like a Beige G3 |
| 03:34.19 | RainbowW | not an option on the image i used. language, country or region, keyboard, detect and mount cd, load installer components from cd, debconf priority, check cd integrity, shell, abort. |
| 03:35.15 | pahartik | RainbowW: if it is PowerMacintosh 7200 case, original motherboard and CPU are long gone... |
| 03:35.21 | sloopy | what error does it give? |
| 03:35.51 | sloopy | probly a 7200 top and Beige G3 bottom/guts |
| 03:38.06 | RainbowW | the bottom label is an m3979 |
| 03:38.25 | RainbowW | http://www.topmicrousa.com/m3979.html |
| 03:38.35 | RainbowW | except this one has a zip drive |
| 03:39.31 | sloopy | yeah the specs you list from the sticker are baseline G3 |
| 03:40.32 | sloopy | i just checked a beige g3 i have here and it says model M3979 |
| 03:41.03 | RainbowW | i was unable to boot from a floppy, so i guessed old world mac on pretty much that basis, and went to bootx. |
| 03:41.28 | sloopy | it is OW... |
| 03:41.49 | pahartik | RainbowW: what if you used SCSI CD-ROM instead of IDE CD-ROM? |
| 03:41.54 | RainbowW | okay. are the boot images at ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/sarge/main/installer-powerpc/current/images/powerpc/ specific to particular cd images? |
| 03:42.02 | RainbowW | pahartik: that would require having a scsi cd-rom. |
| 03:42.18 | sloopy | openfirmware is more flakey on the beige g3 then the powersurge models (7200-7600) |
| 03:43.05 | RainbowW | well, what i'm wondering is, is part of the problem that i'm using the wrong cd image for the kernel i'm using. (this is not clear in the install doc.) |
| 03:44.07 | sloopy | that i dont know, i have always used bootx personally |
| 03:44.28 | pahartik | RainbowW: what if you used Debian installer that does not need CD-ROM and gets everything (after kernel image and ramdisk image) from Debian archive mirror? |
| 03:44.38 | RainbowW | well so am i, but what i'm asking is, i picked the cdrom kernel from here: ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/sarge/main/installer-powerpc/current/images/powerpc/ |
| 03:45.10 | RainbowW | pahartik: to do that i'm apparently using the wrong install image. which would be more appropriate? netboot-minimal? |
| 03:47.27 | RainbowW | i've got about 10 minutes left on my full download of the full-sized binary-1.iso ... so we'll see. |
| 03:49.14 | pahartik | RainbowW: "/pub/debian/dists/testing/main/installer-powerpc/current/images/powerpc/netboot/" or "/pub/debian/dists/stable/main/installer-powerpc/current/images/powerpc/netboot/" |
| 03:50.35 | RainbowW | okay. one macos reboot on the way. (using IE 5.1 is insanely ... insane. i hate it.) |
| 03:50.51 | RainbowW | do i also need the netboot cd image? |
| 03:51.12 | RainbowW | netinst rather |
| 03:52.10 | pahartik | RainbowW: usual traditional MacOS versions come with Netscape browser, installing microsoft crap can be disabled from custom install options |
| 03:52.32 | RainbowW | pahartik: this is a previously-trashed machine. |
| 03:52.55 | RainbowW | i haven't re-downloaded macos install images (although i might need to someday). |
| 03:53.36 | RainbowW | i had to find and reinstall stuffit expander, if that gives you any clue. i could tell it had been previously installed (icons in the desktop file, for example), but somewhere along the line it got removed. |
| 03:54.54 | RainbowW | it tried to have word 98 open .sit files, for example. |
| 03:55.32 | RainbowW | other q: what kind of expansion slots does this box have? are these still nubus? |
| 03:57.08 | pahartik | RainbowW: AFAIK, that PowerMacintosh model is tricky, and you may end up having to boot it with through traditional MacOS with BootX even after Linux is installed |
| 03:57.25 | pahartik | RainbowW: PCI slots |
| 03:57.47 | RainbowW | pahartik: that would suck because i don't have installable media to rescue macos. in any event, it'll have been worth what i paid for the box if I brick it. :) |
| 03:59.17 | RainbowW | i haven't used a mac since the days of my very first computer of my own -- a macintosh plus with an HD20 ... it connected to the floppy port. |
| 04:01.30 | RainbowW | i was 10 and for a time, had the baddest machine in the house. :) |
| 04:02.54 | RainbowW | okay. netboot downloaded. let's see what happens. |
| 04:04.50 | RainbowW | well, so far so good. |
| 04:05.44 | RainbowW | so is frying macos and simply doing an all-linux system worth a try? |
| 04:07.34 | RainbowW | great. it's a 2.1g seagate drive. how fun. |
| 04:08.39 | RainbowW | is it theoretically possible to put a usb card or sata controller in this machine? |
| 04:10.11 | pahartik | RainbowW: if they are available as PCI adapters... |
| 04:10.41 | RainbowW | sure are. do they need to be ppc-specific? or merely have supported chipsets in the kernel? |
| 04:13.06 | pahartik | RainbowW: you will not be able to boot from devices connected to either, but if kernel supports them, they should work otherwise |
| 04:14.07 | RainbowW | i was thinking of making /dev/sda (the built-on 2g unit) root boot and other important stuff like that, and putting /usr and /var and /tmp onto a pair of external sata drives i have here. |
| 04:15.00 | RainbowW | would add 750 gig to the box, and would make it slightly more useful. :) |
| 04:16.32 | pahartik | RainbowW: if you install Linux and it fails to boot, make sure that you have traditional MacOS install media available... |
| 04:17.13 | RainbowW | pahartik: i'd have to download it from apple. at this point, if it fails to boot, i'll use the machine as a doorstop. i don't have another machine anywhere in the building with floppy drives on it. |
| 04:18.20 | pahartik | RainbowW: you will not be able to download it from Apple, you just need to find someone that is willing to get rid of traditional MacOS install media |
| 04:18.35 | RainbowW | no they have some old versions of macos available for download. |
| 04:20.18 | pahartik | RainbowW: PowerMacintosh G3 requires MacOS 8.0 or later |
| 04:20.51 | pahartik | RainbowW: MacOS 7.5.2 is available for download from Apple |
| 04:22.37 | pahartik | RainbowW: that old MacOS version offered by Apple works on most of their m68k hardware, but probably not on any PowerPC hardware |
| 04:27.05 | RainbowW | i'm trying to find the apple spec sheet that listed the supported versions. i recall that it said this thing would run X 10.2. |
| 04:28.34 | pahartik | RainbowW: http://www.lowendmac.com/ppc/g3.shtml |
| 04:28.36 | RainbowW | there it is |
| 04:28.38 | RainbowW | http://support.apple.com/specs/powermac/Power_Macintosh_G3_Desktop.html |
| 04:28.43 | RainbowW | you're right, 8.0 or later. |
| 04:28.57 | RainbowW | or rather, 8.0 to 10.2.8. |
| 04:29.05 | RainbowW | http://www.lowendmac.com/ppc/g3.shtml |
| 04:29.06 | RainbowW | oops |
| 04:31.37 | RainbowW | either way, if it bricks, it's not worth the effort. it's not enough of a machine to be a workhorse anymore. i wonder if i could put an IDE hard drive in it. |
| 04:31.54 | RainbowW | and how much it would see. :) |
| 04:32.33 | RainbowW | yeah well. |
| 04:32.35 | RainbowW | it's 2 gig. |
| 04:34.09 | RainbowW | tho you can have it if you want it :) thank you for your help btw |
| 04:36.48 | RainbowW | since i'm not multi-booting, can i skip quik? i ask because i formatted ext3, and quik apparently doesn't support ext3, only ext2, which means a reformat and redownload. |
| 04:37.22 | pahartik | RainbowW: where can I get it from? |
| 04:37.34 | RainbowW | my house. i'm in texas. :) |
| 04:37.58 | RainbowW | i expect shipping it to finland would buy you about 20 of them locally :) |
| 04:38.27 | pahartik | RainbowW: I am located in Tampere, Finland, Europe, Earth |
| 04:41.20 | RainbowW | any thoughts on my quik question? |
| 04:41.28 | pahartik | RainbowW: on my OldWorld workstations, I have ext3 "/" and ext2 "/boot/", and install "quik" manually after Debian installer has finished but before rebooting... |
| 04:45.21 | pahartik | RainbowW: I could put ~18 GiB or ~36 GiB SCSI harddisk in it... |
| 04:46.13 | RainbowW | if i try that i'll brick the machine. have to let the installer do it. |
| 04:48.14 | pahartik | RainbowW: Debian installer does not know how to set up "quik" for separate "/boot/" filesystem, but it is fairly simple |
| 05:08.02 | RainbowW | maybe i could take out the zip drive and put in a 300g ide drive. that might be useful. |
| 05:17.40 | RainbowW | welp. |
| 05:17.44 | RainbowW | looks like i bricked it. |
| 05:34.58 | RainbowW | is it theoretically possible to do a floppy install on this mac without macos installed? |
| 05:35.34 | RainbowW | guess so. |
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| 10:47.08 | abrocadabro | hey, I am just wondering if my imac G5 20 inch is actually belonging to ppc64 category |
| 10:48.21 | abrocadabro | I have been looking around for a linux CD running on my imac G5, those 20 inch ones, does this debianppc port support it? I tried ubuntu and it didn't work |
| 10:49.55 | pahartik | abrocadabro: PowerPC 970 is 64-bit CPU |
| 10:50.43 | abrocadabro | does my 20 inch imac G5 have a powerpc 970 cpu ? |
| 10:51.28 | abrocadabro | in "About this Mac" it says it is: CPU Type:PowerPC G5 (3.1) |
| 10:52.45 | pahartik | abrocadabro: all PowerMacintosh G5 and iMac G5 models have at least one PowerPC 970 CPU |
| 10:53.08 | abrocadabro | and it is 64 bits? not 32 bits? |
| 10:55.46 | abrocadabro | pahartik: cool, found the reference at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC_G5 |
| 11:01.52 | pahartik | abrocadabro: does boot loader offer you to choose kernel image for POWER4? |
| 11:02.43 | abrocadabro | pahartik: I haven't gotten that far yet, I am stilling search through the net see what linux I can install on my imac |
| 11:03.31 | pahartik | abrocadabro: probably at least Debian and Ubuntu |
| 11:04.23 | abrocadabro | pahartik: I really would like to install Debian, but this http://www.us.debian.org/ports/powerpc/inst/install doesn't have powerpc 970 as a supported CPU, |
| 11:05.24 | abrocadabro | pahartik: it mentioned G5 is based on POWER4 actually, I might give this a try |
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| 13:35.09 | schasi | hi there |
| 13:57.25 | pahartik | hello schasi |
| 13:58.39 | schasi | Why does the fan work so oft under linux? |
| 13:58.43 | schasi | ibookg G4 |
| 14:01.55 | pahartik | schasi: fan does not start so often if you run CPU at half speed |
| 14:03.30 | schasi | how do i do that? i dont seem to have /proc/sys/cpu |
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| 14:27.39 | Corsac | why would you have a /proc/sys/cpu ? |
| 14:28.37 | schasi | Because some howto said it would be there |
| 14:29.13 | schasi | I now have powernowd installed |
| 14:30.01 | schasi | How can in control the cpu parameters? eg not let the cpu change to full speed but set half speed manually? |
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| 17:16.36 | pahartik | schasi: "/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/" |
| 17:16.51 | schasi | thx |
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