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| 07:13.43 | Nalle_ | Morning |
| 07:54.04 | simonrvn | hi |
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| 08:29.47 | Nalle_ | hi simonrvn |
| 08:37.29 | pahartik | Hello Nalle_, simonrvn |
| 08:40.57 | Nalle_ | Morning pahartik |
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| 18:31.37 | Wampyre | Hello. Has anyone worked on Limebooks? |
| 18:35.32 | dougmencken | on what? |
| 18:35.42 | Wampyre | Limebook Z9 |
| 18:35.44 | dougmencken | powerbook g4 lime? |
| 18:36.05 | dougmencken | Wampyre: never heard; time to google? |
| 18:36.22 | Wampyre | Google does not have the answers I seek. |
| 18:39.26 | dougmencken | it's for me |
| 18:40.11 | Wampyre | I want to know how to change the default boot device so that I can replace the OS on the machine with something more useful. |
| 18:43.38 | dougmencken | Wampyre: does it use open firmware? tried holding command+option+o+f? |
| 18:44.51 | Wampyre | That key combination has no effect. |
| 18:45.01 | Wampyre | I don't know if it uses open firmware. |
| 18:45.10 | Wampyre | There's very little information available. |
| 18:45.42 | dougmencken | Wampyre: which bootloader is used on your side? yaboot? |
| 18:46.09 | Wampyre | All it says on screen until I can log in is "LINKBOOK" |
| 18:46.38 | dougmencken | oh, which os are you on now? |
| 18:46.56 | Wampyre | If I repeatedly press 'U' during startup, then I get to a recovery console where I can reload the OS from a premade image. |
| 18:47.05 | Wampyre | It is a customised ubuntu |
| 18:49.03 | dougmencken | Wampyre: can you get 'uname -a'? |
| 18:49.20 | dougmencken | Wampyre: and 'cat /proc/cpuinfo' |
| 18:50.13 | Wampyre | uname -a = Linux limeos 2.6.24.6 #6 PREEMPT Mon Apr 12 09:38:44 EDT 2010 ppc GNU/Linux |
| 18:50.39 | dougmencken | okay |
| 18:51.22 | dougmencken | Wampyre: 'ls /proc/device-tree | wc -l' |
| 18:51.57 | Wampyre | cpu: e300c4 | clock: 391.874992MHZ | bogomips: 97.79 | timebase: 48984374 | platform: MPC5121 ADS |
| 18:52.39 | Wampyre | ls /proc/device-tree | wc -l = 12 |
| 18:52.51 | dougmencken | Wampyre: fine, so you're using open firmware |
| 18:53.18 | Wampyre | Which piece of info tells you that? |
| 18:53.50 | dougmencken | Wampyre: the presence of device-tree ;) so... it would take a time to figure out how to get to OF console at your side; do you have any documentation came with your notebook? |
| 18:54.11 | Wampyre | It deals with OS level only. |
| 18:54.40 | dougmencken | Wampyre: can you ask your vendor about that? |
| 18:54.46 | Wampyre | Been through it thoroughly, no mention about OF. |
| 18:54.58 | Wampyre | The vendor refuses to offer support on anything other than the OS. |
| 18:55.26 | dougmencken | Wampyre: bad vendor |
| 18:55.37 | Wampyre | I got the manufacturer as far as saying that another OS CAN be loaded, but that he cannot tell me how to do it, 'cos that would violate the contract with the vendor. |
| 18:55.53 | dougmencken | Wampyre: bad again |
| 18:56.11 | Wampyre | I know. |
| 18:56.36 | Wampyre | This is truly the only place I have hope of assistance. And I'm not just saying that to flatter you :) |
| 18:56.42 | dougmencken | Wampyre: what do you see at time of booting? some text lines? some graphics? some details? |
| 18:56.48 | Wampyre | Nothing. |
| 18:57.01 | dougmencken | Wampyre: just black screen then os welcome? |
| 18:57.10 | Wampyre | Graphic screen, with 'LIMEBOOK' written on it. |
| 18:57.29 | Wampyre | Then there's the OS Login screen which has been made to look almost identical to that of Windows XP |
| 18:58.06 | Wampyre | First screen is black with the Linkbook Logo. |
| 18:58.23 | Wampyre | Then there's another black screen with LinkBook in the top left corner, graphically. |
| 18:58.46 | dougmencken | Wampyre: hang on a minute |
| 18:58.49 | Wampyre | Then there's a splash screen with a progress bar, Linkbook at the top, then the login screen. |
| 18:59.16 | Wampyre | Just before the login screen, it goes black with just a flashing cursor for a few seconds. |
| 19:03.36 | dougmencken | really, I can't even find anything on google |
| 19:03.51 | dougmencken | strange |
| 19:04.19 | dougmencken | http://superuser.com/questions/198253/how-do-i-install-an-os-on-a-limebook-z9 << no answer |
| 19:04.31 | Wampyre | Bwahahaha, that's my question :) |
| 19:04.39 | Wampyre | See how long ago it was asked? |
| 19:05.16 | dougmencken | Wampyre: okay, how many (free) disk space do you have now? |
| 19:06.03 | dougmencken | Wampyre: do you have /etc/apt/sources.list? |
| 19:06.51 | Wampyre | /dev/hda1 13G, 3.8 used, 7.8G Free |
| 19:07.13 | Wampyre | I have that file, yes |
| 19:07.42 | dougmencken | fine. a lot of space; so you can turn your ubuntu into debian w/o any re-installation |
| 19:07.51 | Wampyre | :D |
| 19:07.59 | simonrvn | with a lot of patience and effort yes |
| 19:08.05 | Wampyre | :s |
| 19:08.12 | Wampyre | :) |
| 19:08.17 | dougmencken | just replace your source.list with debian's one and apt-get dist-upgrade |
| 19:08.23 | simonrvn | mostly resolving deps, but it's certainly hopeful |
| 19:08.25 | dougmencken | almost no effort |
| 19:08.31 | dougmencken | just some time |
| 19:08.47 | Wampyre | I'm not even sure which version of ubuntu it is. One line has reference to jaunty, another references hardy |
| 19:09.00 | dougmencken | Wampyre: pastebin your sources.list |
| 19:10.31 | Wampyre | http://pastebin.com/UxbCQcRZ |
| 19:10.47 | dougmencken | let alone soft-migrating to gentoo? ;) su -l |newline| wget http://mirrors.kernel.org/gentoo/distfiles/portage-2.1.9.40.tar.bz2 |newline| tar xjf portage-2.1.9.40.tar.bz2 |newline| cd portage-* |newline| mkdir -p /usr/share/portage/config/ |newline| cp cnf/make.globals /usr/share/portage/config/ |newline| ./bin/emerge --sync ## ;) |
| 19:11.02 | Wampyre | At this point, none of the sources that are in there are accessible. |
| 19:11.07 | Wampyre | HUH????? |
| 19:11.17 | dougmencken | Wampyre: I'm kidding; hang on |
| 19:11.24 | Wampyre | LoL! |
| 19:11.36 | Wampyre | Would that actually work? I've been looking for an excuse to dabble with gentoo :p |
| 19:11.49 | simonrvn | bah, that's just a bit of compiling and time |
| 19:12.06 | simonrvn | less headaches with debian |
| 19:12.16 | simonrvn | it's already built |
| 19:12.19 | dougmencken | Wampyre: jaunty, do do have jaunty (hardy is commented) |
| 19:12.28 | dougmencken | s/do do/you do/ |
| 19:12.47 | Wampyre | haha |
| 19:12.53 | simonrvn | jaunty? hmm. etch, lenny? |
| 19:13.21 | dougmencken | simonrvn: I'm not sure, I don't know about ubuntu much (and I know, ppc builds are unofficial) |
| 19:13.27 | Wampyre | I don't really mind which OS I get. As long as it's something that I can actually USE> |
| 19:13.47 | dougmencken | Wampyre: what's the problem with your current setup? |
| 19:13.49 | simonrvn | ok, what's uname -r say? |
| 19:14.01 | Wampyre | 2.6.24.6 |
| 19:14.09 | Wampyre | I can't install anything on it. |
| 19:14.13 | simonrvn | ok, not much work to do there |
| 19:14.13 | dougmencken | is it 9.04? |
| 19:14.34 | dougmencken | but 7 GiB is enough to fetch every new world from debian testing |
| 19:14.37 | Wampyre | I can't even install from source, since the build tools are not installed, and I can't install them. |
| 19:14.48 | simonrvn | if you want squeeze (newly released stable), you'll need a 2.6.32 kernel |
| 19:15.01 | Wampyre | I'm really not sure which version of Ubuntu it is. They've done their best to hide that it even is Ububtu. |
| 19:15.11 | dougmencken | Wampyre: can you find the debian entries for sources.list in google? |
| 19:15.11 | simonrvn | lenny you can get away with the current one |
| 19:15.37 | simonrvn | /join #debian then /msg dpkg sources.list |
| 19:15.46 | dougmencken | or so :) |
| 19:16.08 | dougmencken | then apt-get update && apt-get -y dist-upgrade ## ;) |
| 19:16.32 | Wampyre | :D |
| 19:17.10 | dougmencken | Wampyre: nope, last posts are serious |
| 19:17.21 | dougmencken | if you want new software |
| 19:18.09 | simonrvn | i'm working on getting the bot here back up (if you were wondering) |
| 19:18.29 | dougmencken | Wampyre: and promise me, the first package you install would be "gcc-base" and "build-essential" |
| 19:18.36 | Wampyre | I've changed it, but apt-get update says Malformed line 8... |
| 19:18.47 | Wampyre | Gonna investigate what I did wrong... |
| 19:18.48 | simonrvn | .apt here is nice but not kept up to date |
| 19:18.54 | dougmencken | Wampyre: either fix it or pastebin it |
| 19:19.37 | Wampyre | Fixed. |
| 19:19.55 | Wampyre | I missed half the second line, busy updating sources., |
| 19:20.03 | dougmencken | Wampyre: btw, I'm sending a letter to limepc |
| 19:20.33 | simonrvn | "don't cripple the os on your machines!" ? ;) |
| 19:20.54 | Wampyre | Yeah! If I wanted a useless, cripple OS I'd have gone with Windows or Apple :D |
| 19:20.56 | dougmencken | it's *agains* the rules of PPC makers (like Freescale and IBM) to not to allow users to enter OF prompt |
| 19:21.26 | simonrvn | ah, seriously? nice |
| 19:21.36 | Wampyre | didn't know that. |
| 19:22.01 | Wampyre | But then, I still don't know exactly what OF is... |
| 19:22.14 | simonrvn | which is probably one of the reasons why crapple went to the x86 platform |
| 19:22.18 | simonrvn | open firmware |
| 19:22.21 | dougmencken | Wampyre: it's very googlable, even PDFs with standards and so on |
| 19:22.30 | simonrvn | it's like a bios on steroids |
| 19:22.52 | simonrvn | based on FORTH |
| 19:23.00 | dougmencken | simonrvn: have you seen *any* manufacturer totally disabling the way to enter bios x86 setup? |
| 19:23.16 | dougmencken | ibm pc at bios |
| 19:23.18 | simonrvn | nope. but it's very limited. |
| 19:23.30 | simonrvn | comparatively speaking |
| 19:23.43 | dougmencken | simonrvn: unselect dev world |
| 19:23.50 | simonrvn | hehe |
| 19:23.52 | dougmencken | words* |
| 19:24.52 | dougmencken | simonrvn: it is limited, it is limited to some ncurses-like "menues", but... I never saw any vendor restricting an assess to bios setup |
| 19:25.02 | dougmencken | access* |
| 19:25.11 | simonrvn | no, that's true |
| 19:25.38 | Wampyre | I suspect what they've done is connected the keyboard via a USB subsystem, and disabled boot-time USB support. Do you think that's viable? |
| 19:25.41 | dougmencken | simonrvn: in x86 world? |
| 19:26.03 | dougmencken | Wampyre: OF can easily deal with any bus |
| 19:26.11 | simonrvn | i haven't seen it |
| 19:26.32 | dougmencken | simonrvn: yeah; but in ppc world... they got y letter, I hope |
| 19:26.36 | dougmencken | my* |
| 19:26.47 | Wampyre | getting gpg errors... |
| 19:27.01 | dougmencken | Wampyre: it's okay, and is googlable |
| 19:27.03 | simonrvn | they've somehow bypassed any sort of capability to get to of. |
| 19:27.13 | Wampyre | Yup, getting answers already. |
| 19:27.17 | simonrvn | debian-keyring package |
| 19:27.23 | simonrvn | ok, brb |
| 19:28.14 | simonrvn | you're in capable hands with these folks :) |
| 19:30.34 | dougmencken | simonrvn: what's the future of ppc with debian? I know about m68k support, but |
| 19:35.35 | Wampyre | YaY! |
| 19:35.41 | Wampyre | Package lists are updated. |
| 19:35.49 | Wampyre | Now... distro upgrade! |
| 19:38.18 | dougmencken | Wampyre: welcome to debian |
| 19:38.32 | Wampyre | I use Debian on my web server :) |
| 19:38.43 | Wampyre | Ubuntu on my desktop |
| 19:38.52 | Wampyre | OpenSuSe on my FTP server. |
| 19:39.04 | dougmencken | Wampyre: btw, that gentoo way works too... but it really takes a lot of time to build, especailly on your machine; |
| 19:39.21 | Wampyre | Yeah, 400MMHz CPU FTL :( |
| 19:39.29 | Wampyre | *MHz |
| 19:39.50 | Wampyre | Hopefully, with Debian, I'll at least be able to play Starcraft :D |
| 19:40.05 | dougmencken | Wampyre: via sheepshaver? |
| 19:40.23 | Wampyre | Never heard of that. I was thinking WINE |
| 19:40.35 | dougmencken | Wampyre: there's no WINE on powerpc |
| 19:40.46 | Wampyre | oh |
| 19:40.49 | dougmencken | but via sheepshaver... you can |
| 19:40.57 | Wampyre | :D |
| 19:40.58 | Wampyre | Then there's HOPE |
| 19:41.07 | dougmencken | (you'll need mac version of starcarft/broodwar) |
| 19:41.11 | Wampyre | You've been really awesome, thanks. |
| 19:41.37 | dougmencken | Wampyre: any time, bro |
| 19:41.44 | simonrvn | dougmencken: more or less like last release, hopefully it'll get better in terms of kernel support ;). |
| 19:42.15 | dougmencken | simonrvn: kernel is okay, but I'm scared of absence of beh herrenshmidt anyway |
| 19:42.19 | dougmencken | ben* |
| 19:43.09 | simonrvn | what, he took off or something? |
| 19:43.22 | dougmencken | also, many fixes on alsa side, thanks alsa guys |
| 19:43.33 | simonrvn | he hasn't been here in years. his irc time was mostly in #mklinux |
| 19:43.39 | dougmencken | simonrvn: he just disappeared (or changed an alias) |
| 19:44.10 | simonrvn | no, still here. just /whois'd him |
| 19:44.24 | dougmencken | hmm... |
| 19:44.25 | simonrvn | benh |
| 19:44.43 | simonrvn | still in .au too |
| 19:44.44 | dougmencken | good time at be |
| 19:44.49 | Wampyre | I suspect this update is gonna take all night, and probably most of the day tomorrow. |
| 19:44.54 | dougmencken | "be, inc." |
| 19:45.16 | Wampyre | So I'm gonna get some sleep. Thanks again, both of you, for the assistance. Much appreciated. |
| 19:45.29 | simonrvn | on a 400 MHz? probably not. not as fast a g4, but hey |
| 19:45.36 | dougmencken | Wampyre: the update will take a lot of space; 7 must be divided by 2; oh, see you |
| 19:45.44 | simonrvn | ok, g'night |
| 19:45.55 | Wampyre | Oh, and 384kbps internet connection... |
| 19:46.08 | simonrvn | *that'll* be the bottleneck ;) |
| 19:46.12 | dougmencken | Wampyre: heh, then 2 days :) |
| 19:46.21 | Wampyre | Welcome to Africa :D |
| 19:46.43 | dougmencken | Wampyre: Africa, unite! Coz we're moving right outta babylon! |
| 19:46.47 | dougmencken | :) |
| 19:47.17 | dougmencken | hell, just got an enormous error message from antlr |
| 19:47.25 | Wampyre | hehe, I go sleep now. g'night! |
| 19:48.03 | simonrvn | !africa++ |
| 19:48.12 | dougmencken | heh |
| 19:48.26 | dougmencken | I do really want such netbook |
| 19:49.04 | simonrvn | does sounds neat, if a bit of a pita at first |
| 19:49.46 | dougmencken | simonrvn: how many time do you think will take for me to enter OF prompt on it? |
| 19:50.28 | simonrvn | how much time? hmm |
| 19:50.41 | dougmencken | a day or so I suppose |
| 19:51.15 | simonrvn | a week tops, if you spend like 20 minutes on it or so. if you spent all day on it, probably 1, 2 days |
| 19:51.31 | simonrvn | it's probably all software bypassing |
| 19:51.48 | simonrvn | update kernel, boot to new one, whatever, you get to see of |
| 19:51.52 | dougmencken | simonrvn: okay, we can never predict :) btw, why do you think about mozilla? and firefox 4? |
| 19:52.13 | simonrvn | ff4 is pretty nice actually |
| 19:52.29 | dougmencken | simonrvn: but they want to ditch ppc |
| 19:52.54 | dougmencken | and this is the last graphical browser still developed |
| 19:52.57 | simonrvn | my preference lately is opera, but i still use ff4; mostly for web dev and play 1 game |
| 19:53.04 | simonrvn | wtf, who does? |
| 19:53.06 | dougmencken | simonrvn: opera 10.63? |
| 19:53.26 | simonrvn | poopie, i hope not, esp. linux |
| 19:53.59 | dougmencken | simonrvn: who? google://firefox 4 ppc |
| 19:54.17 | simonrvn | opera 11.01 |
| 19:54.34 | dougmencken | I know about tenfourfox, but they do that for tiger (os x) |
| 19:54.43 | dougmencken | simonrvn: there's no opera 11.x for ppc |
| 19:55.26 | dougmencken | and their patches are still "unacceptible" for upstream, as mozilla guys say |
| 19:56.09 | simonrvn | what? crap. |
| 19:56.52 | dougmencken | simonrvn: heh, your current setup isn't powerpc, correct? |
| 19:57.24 | simonrvn | mixed arch |
| 19:57.43 | simonrvn | current desktop is an old x86 |
| 19:57.58 | dougmencken | old x86 and new x86 are the same :) |
| 19:58.11 | simonrvn | i'd prefer a ppc, but i have no budget, so take what i can get ;) |
| 19:58.12 | dougmencken | they all can do MOV AH,BH |
| 19:58.19 | dougmencken | :) |
| 19:59.14 | simonrvn | "cia gives terrorist groups wmds" *sigh* </ot> |
| 19:59.32 | dougmencken | I'm now working to add the infozip (PKZIP) archives support to my build system... and it's all due to altlr package |
| 19:59.47 | simonrvn | hmm |
| 19:59.50 | dougmencken | http://www.antlr.org/download/antlrworks-1.4.2-src.zip |
| 20:00.30 | simonrvn | debian supports zlib, bzip2, lzma, xz in the build process |
| 20:00.42 | dougmencken | simonrvn: and no infozips, I know |
| 20:00.57 | dougmencken | zlib and gz are not zip |
| 20:01.11 | simonrvn | no, i know |
| 20:01.35 | simonrvn | well, i usually equate zlib with gzip |
| 20:01.56 | simonrvn | not quite accurate, but close enough for horseshoes |
| 20:02.07 | dougmencken | for extracting? |
| 20:02.27 | simonrvn | just in general |
| 20:02.57 | dougmencken | okay; I just wonder how debian guys get gnu classpath to be built... |
| 20:03.11 | dougmencken | w/o antlr it refuses to do |
| 20:03.21 | dougmencken | (and w/o gcc with gcj) |
| 20:04.03 | simonrvn | good question. an email to the maints should help answer some of those questions ;). |
| 20:05.23 | dougmencken | as always any mailing will lead to: 1 message about problem, 1 message with patches, 1 message with other patches (neglecting previous ones), and then total silence :) |
| 20:06.23 | simonrvn | or irc then (#debian-devel on oftc or #debian-mentors - same net) |
| 20:07.03 | dougmencken | simonrvn: it's not critical, and I upload all my patches |
| 20:07.17 | dougmencken | I got that they are all so busy |
| 20:07.19 | simonrvn | ok |
| 20:07.38 | simonrvn | if they're chatting on irc they're not so busy ;) |
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