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| 03:31.12 | fastijum | anyone familiar with Old World Macs or BootX ? |
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| 03:37.21 | pahartik | fastijum: I have used those |
| 03:37.35 | fastijum | pahartik: oh, great |
| 03:38.29 | fastijum | pahartik: Iâm stuck at a message âWelcome to Linuxâ, after starting the kernel image with BootX |
| 03:38.47 | fastijum | pahartik: tried several kernel, various distros, same non-result |
| 03:39.04 | fastijum | pahartik: I have a PowerBook 3400c |
| 03:39.50 | fastijum | pahartik: I read otherâs experiences, but nobody seems to have had such a problem. though, these were all from at least 3 years ago |
| 03:40.01 | fastijum | pahartik: (like, Debian 3) |
| 03:41.52 | fastijum | pahartik: so Iâm wondering if anybody has used a 2.6.recent kernel with success |
| 03:42.26 | fastijum | pahartik: although, I tried an old Gentoo 2007.0, with 2.6.17, and that wouldnât boot either⦠|
| 03:46.33 | pahartik | fastijum: Does that get printed before Linux kernel actually prints any output? |
| 03:46.54 | fastijum | pahartik: exactly. it looks like the kernel wasnât actually loaded |
| 03:47.19 | fastijum | pahartik: I think the âWelcomeâ message is really from BootX, not from the kernel |
| 03:49.47 | pahartik | fastijum: Yes, maybe kernel did not detect framebuffer correctly... Or something else was missing... |
| 03:51.01 | fastijum | pahartik: right now, Iâm configuring a kernel with as much early verbosity as I can get, that Iâll cross-compile and then put in the Linux Kernels folder for BootX to load |
| 03:51.25 | pahartik | fastijum: I remember that one needs to define kernel image, ramdisk image and ramdisk size large enough, 24 or 32 MiB should be safe |
| 03:52.38 | fastijum | pahartik: I tried several options for video= including ct65550 (the actual card) and ofonly (seen somewhere on the net) |
| 03:53.23 | fastijum | pahartik: and I tried even skipping the ramdisk, just to purposely get a âroot filesystem not foundâ error message |
| 03:53.27 | pahartik | fastijum: It is also possible that console went to serial port |
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| 03:53.31 | fastijum | pahartik: but I still got nothing |
| 03:53.43 | fastijum | pahartik: I always used console=tty0 |
| 03:54.06 | fastijum | pahartik: that should take care of that, right? |
| 03:57.28 | pahartik | fastijum: If there was problem with kernel not finding framebuffer... |
| 03:59.08 | fastijum | pahartik: I just wish I could get anything, even a very early error message, just to know that the kernel actually started booting |
| 04:01.13 | pahartik | fastijum: If you get "root filesystem not found", it is message from kernel |
| 04:01.39 | fastijum | pahartik: yeah, I wish I got that |
| 04:02.22 | fastijum | I hope the kernel Iâm building now will let me know whatâs wrong |
| 04:02.38 | fastijum | pahartik: since Iâm gathering this is a really rare condition |
| 04:02.39 | pahartik | fastijum: Have you tried older Debian versions? |
| 04:03.11 | fastijum | pahartik: I couldnât find anything before 5.0 |
| 04:03.27 | fastijum | pahartik: same for Gentoo, couldnât find anything before 2007.0 |
| 04:04.00 | fastijum | pahartik: and thatâs bad, since I read successful stories citing either Debian 3, or Gentoo 2004 |
| 04:05.32 | fastijum | pahartik: for Debian, I checked every US mirror, as well as some from Europe, but they keep well in sync and they all have the same (mostly recent) files |
| 04:05.33 | pahartik | fastijum: Archive at "http://archive.debian.org/debian/dists/" |
| 04:05.47 | fastijum | pahartik: oh wow |
| 04:07.37 | fastijum | pahartik: I guess I just found what to burn another CD-R for, thanks! |
| 04:08.33 | pahartik | fastijum: Well, you can just use HTTP client on MacOS and download kernel images and ramdisk images... |
| 04:09.07 | fastijum | pahartik: actually, youâre right, for now Iâll just test the kernels |
| 04:09.47 | fastijum | pahartik: yay, I couldnât wait to have another excuse to use IE5:mac |
| 04:10.41 | pahartik | fastijum: Traditional MacOS comes with "Netscape"... |
| 04:11.41 | fastijum | pahartik: this is Mac OS 9, the install disc only offered IE, Outlook Express and Communicator, but no Navigator :( |
| 04:12.30 | fastijum | pahartik: I did also remember hearing that they had both, but I couldnât find it in the install options |
| 04:12.53 | pahartik | fastijum: Oh, "Netscape Communicator" is "Netscape Navigator" with additions... |
| 04:13.02 | fastijum | pahartik: and the installed IE4.5, of course, crashed on almost every page I tried to view :) lucky oldapps had IE5 |
| 04:13.37 | fastijum | pahartik: really? it wouldnât start if I didnât supply my e-mail address and password⦠|
| 04:14.35 | fastijum | pahartik: (and I didnât) |
| 04:16.39 | pahartik | fastijum: Anyway, most HTTP clients should work, "Netscape" is what I used... I have 32 MiB "Disk Copy" image with some kernel image and ramdisk image as it is not easy to get BootX installed otherwise, due to proprietary compression |
| 04:18.23 | fastijum | pahartik: mmm? can you rephrase, please? |
| 04:25.07 | pahartik | fastijum: When I have traditional MacOS installed on OldWorld PowerMacintosh, I fetch my "Disk Copy" image that is mountable on MacOS, over IPv4 HTTP... Then I have BootX and Linux kernel available right away |
| 04:26.17 | pahartik | fastijum: But if you have BootX already, you supposedly managed to decompress StuffIt archive |
| 04:27.03 | fastijum | pahartik: yeah, yeah. got 1.2.2, the same Iâm seeing here in the Debian 3 files |
| 04:55.28 | fastijum | pahartik: found promising option âSupport for early boot text console (BootX or OpenFirmware only)â |
| 05:14.53 | fastijum | it worked! Debian 3 booted! |
| 05:15.51 | fastijum | so it really was a kernel problem. |
| 05:25.43 | fastijum | pahartik: thank you for pointing me to the old Debian archive! |
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| 15:03.55 | fastijum | anybody using BootX with a 2.6 kernel? |
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| 16:10.38 | dougmencken | fastijum: is it possible t all? |
| 16:11.50 | fastijum | dougmencken: well, Iâm inspecting the kernel code, thereâs both BootX-related options in the config, and BootX-relate source files |
| 16:12.11 | fastijum | dougmencken: but the real answer is I donât know, and thatâs why Iâm asking :) |
| 16:12.56 | fastijum | dougmencken: after trying several 2.6 kernels from various ages and various distros, I finally tried 2.4 from Debian 3, and it booted |
| 16:13.20 | fastijum | dougmencken: but now Iâm adding tracers in the 2.6 BootX-related code, to make it output something |
| 16:13.45 | fastijum | dougmencken: âcause otherwise, all I get is absolutely nothing, beyond BootXâs âWelcome to Linuxâ |
| 16:15.14 | fastijum | dougmencken: at least your question makes me think that I wasnât doing anything wrong, that was causing those failures :) |
| 16:18.27 | dougmencken | well, I don't have any oldworld mac at hand right now, so I can't test 2.6 |
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| 18:07.23 | pahartik | fastijum: I have used "BootX" with Linux 2.6 kernel... |
| 18:07.58 | fastijum | pahartik: mmm, 2.6.what? |
| 18:09.25 | pahartik | fastijum: At least 2.6.18 that one Debian version had by default... |
| 18:10.07 | fastijum | pahartik: well, I just tried a 2.6.1[7-9], it didnât work |
| 18:10.23 | fastijum | pahartik: were you using BootX, or quik? |
| 18:10.37 | fastijum | pahartik: sorry, silly question |
| 18:11.05 | fastijum | pahartik: mmm |
| 18:12.02 | fastijum | pahartik: do you remember what options you used? both BootX and kernel arguments, I mean |
| 18:13.31 | pahartik | fastijum: Not really, but maybe you could get more information by using serial port console |
| 18:13.45 | fastijum | pahartik: if I had a computer with a serial port :) |
| 18:14.18 | fastijum | pahartik: I have two dead Celerons (P4) both of which I think have that, but neither will power on :( |
| 18:14.52 | fastijum | pahartik: I could revive an old Pentium 150, though :) |
| 18:15.32 | fastijum | pahartik: anyway, right now Iâm recompiling a 2.6 kernel with most debug options on, hoping to see some error message |
| 18:17.35 | pahartik | fastijum: I have OldWorld desktop and tower systems... SPARCstations, Alphas and... USB to RS-232 -converter |
| 18:18.17 | fastijum | pahartik: eh, I was just thinking about that. so you can use it just like an old RS-232 ttyS ? |
| 18:19.08 | pahartik | fastijum: Yes, since NewWorld PowerMacintoshes do not have traditional serial port |
| 18:19.17 | fastijum | pahartik: right |
| 18:22.04 | fastijum | pahartik: so far, I booted 2.2.20 from Debian 3, and failed to boot the 2.6 from Debian 4 |
| 18:22.16 | fastijum | pahartik: so now Iâm trying with the 2.4 and 2.6 from Debian 3.1 |
| 18:22.40 | fastijum | pahartik: plus the custom kernel Iâm now copying to the Mac |
| 18:23.43 | fastijum | I hate bitrot and/or hw quirks |
| 18:23.48 | pahartik | fastijum: Very good |
| 18:51.39 | fastijum | ha, 2.6.8-4 from Debian 3.1 booted! |
| 18:52.25 | fastijum | (and so did 2.4, but panicked shortly afterwards for double DMA initialization) |
| 18:58.17 | fastijum | bwha, 2.6.36 with tons of debugging info (14 MB of kernel) still didnât output a single line. |
| 19:02.04 | pahartik | fastijum: At least early Linux 2.6 kernel does work wÃth it then |
| 19:07.56 | fastijum | pahartik: yep |
| 19:08.21 | fastijum | pahartik: I think now Iâll try 2.6 kernels, until I find the first one that fails |
| 19:09.07 | fastijum | pahartik: then Iâll diff the code with the previous (working) one, and hope I can spot some significant difference |
| 19:09.49 | fastijum | pahartik: I hope I find a broken one quickly, I donât plan to compile 20+ kernels :) |
| 19:12.56 | fastijum | wow, canât believe I found a working 2.6, I really didnât want to get my fingers dirty with 2.4 code |
| 19:45.08 | fastijum | pahartik: do you know where I can find the .config used by Debian to compile the old kernel I got to work? |
| 19:45.49 | fastijum | pahartik: Iâve been checking the kernel and its initrd, I canât find /proc/config or anything similar |
| 19:55.13 | pahartik | fastijum: For kernel packages, configuration is installed to "/boot/" |
| 19:56.03 | fastijum | pahartik: yeah, I know, but this is not installed. actually, on the historical archive, I canât find anything but kernel images and inirds |
| 20:07.35 | fastijum | ah, maybe I found the packages |
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