irclog2html for #devlounge on 20050225

`00:57.43`	`*** join/#devlounge kergoth (~kergoth@li11-226.members.linode.com)`
`01:02.03`	`*** join/#devlounge kergoth_ (~kergoth@proxysb01.ext.ti.com)`
`02:08.06`	`*** join/#devlounge numist (~numist@cse-air-dhcp-185.ucsd.edu)`
`04:23.03`	`*** join/#devlounge numist (~numist@numist.sustaining.supporter.pdpc)`
`06:12.21`	`*** join/#devlounge purl (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`06:12.21`	`*** topic/#devlounge is IT MIGHT LOOK HARMLESS BUT DON'T BE FOOLED: http://www.livescience.com/images/050217_hrobots_delft_02.jpg \|\| Hate mornings? Show it: http://www.cafepress.com/destroymornings`
`06:16.10`	`kergoth`	`~emulate peter`
`06:16.11`	`purl`	`You know those Germans; if you don't join the party, they come get you.`
`06:18.50`	`*** join/#devlounge equant (~equant@ip68-0-151-135.tc.ph.cox.net)`
`06:43.45`	`*** join/#devlounge purl (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`06:43.45`	`*** topic/#devlounge is IT MIGHT LOOK HARMLESS BUT DON'T BE FOOLED: http://www.livescience.com/images/050217_hrobots_delft_02.jpg \|\| Hate mornings? Show it: http://www.cafepress.com/destroymornings`
`07:33.46`	`*** part/#devlounge equant (~equant@ip68-0-151-135.tc.ph.cox.net)`
`08:04.13`	`*** join/#devlounge nullpuppy (~dustin@c-67-168-57-175.client.comcast.net)`
`09:50.47`	`*** join/#devlounge pb_ (~pb@2002:3e03:42cc:2:20a:5eff:fe00:391e)`
`10:39.15`	`*** join/#devlounge AMDPenguin (~nobody@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com)`
`16:06.51`	`*** join/#devlounge mjg59 (mjg59@cavan.codon.org.uk)`
`16:26.04`	`kergoth`	`thats better`
`16:26.09`	`kergoth`	`bleh`
`17:04.15`	`treke`	`that really describes this morning`
`17:07.17`	`numist`	`indeed, and it just started over here`
`17:31.19`	`*** join/#devlounge treke (~ggilbert@tinman.treke.net)`
`17:49.09`	`ChipX86`	`ugh, omrning bad`
`17:49.12`	`kergoth`	`yes`
`17:49.26`	`ChipX86`	`need spare Destroy Mornings shirt`
`17:49.45`	`scrumptious`	`got one?`
`17:49.54`	`scrumptious`	`your in the office early, ChipX86`
`17:50.32`	`ChipX86`	`I just woke up`
`17:50.41`	`scrumptious`	`ah, thats more like it...`
`17:50.44`	`ChipX86`	`not quite in the office yet`
`17:51.04`	`scrumptious`	`what, you live downstairs or something?`
`17:51.15`	`ChipX86`	`nope, I take the 10:40 bus`
`17:51.25`	`scrumptious`	`ah`
`17:51.42`	`scrumptious`	`oh thats right, I was under the false impression you went to work at 10, its 11 that I was looking for`
`17:51.54`	`ChipX86`	`I should go in at 10`
`17:52.01`	`ChipX86`	`that's about when everyone else goes in`
`17:52.11`	`ChipX86`	`my first day of work, I tried for 9, and almost nobody was there`
`17:52.19`	`scrumptious`	`haha`
`17:52.27`	`scrumptious`	`yeah, I did that too`
`17:57.45`	`ChipX86`	`http://www.gnome.org/~clarkbw/blog/GNOME/Pirate`
`17:58.55`	`TD`	`heya`
`17:59.03`	`scrumptious`	`nice, Chip`
`18:01.32`	`ChipX86`	`TD! Confused! I must be dumb :(`
`18:02.17`	`TD`	`confused .... about autopackage?`
`18:02.21`	`ChipX86`	`yep`
`18:02.27`	`TD`	`ok, which bit?`
`18:02.28`	`ChipX86`	`yep`
`18:02.30`	`TD`	`we seem to have a package for abiword now too`
`18:02.34`	`ChipX86`	`it's the auto-package-retrieval`
`18:02.46`	`TD`	`ah, ok`
`18:02.50`	`ChipX86`	`I see that a skeleton can point to its repository xml file`
`18:02.51`	`ChipX86`	`that's great`
`18:02.56`	`ChipX86`	`how does another package specify it?`
`18:03.07`	`ChipX86`	`how does it know where that xml file is?`
`18:03.48`	`TD`	`well the skeletons are copied into the .package file by the makeinstaller program.`
`18:04.03`	`TD`	`so if you do a "require @whatever.org/foobar" then the skeleton for @whatever.org/foobar will be copied in`
`18:04.19`	`TD`	`that is a little bit of black hack magic which is also not documented! aren't we fab :)`
`18:04.19`	`ChipX86`	`yeah, but how does it know how to fulfill that?`
`18:04.29`	`ChipX86`	`galago-daemon needs to require libgalago`
`18:04.33`	`ChipX86`	`how does it find libgalago?`
`18:05.20`	`TD`	`you whack a "require ..." line in your [Prepare] script. it takes the skeleton, which you've also written, and puts it into the package. when the package is installing, it runs the [Test] section of the skeleton which can examine the state of the system`
`18:05.26`	`TD`	`in your case by using the "testForLib" function`
`18:05.45`	`ChipX86`	`right, I get that it takes the skeleton. Where does it find the skeleton?`
`18:06.02`	`TD`	`there is a list of directories, by default /usr/share/autopackage/skeletons but you can add more.`
`18:06.15`	`TD`	`for now just whack a symlink in there`
`18:06.18`	`ChipX86`	`oh, so I have my package install into there?`
`18:06.20`	`TD`	`(for development)`
`18:06.20`	`TD`	`yeah`
`18:06.21`	`ChipX86`	`er`
`18:06.23`	`ChipX86`	`install the skeleton`
`18:06.28`	`ChipX86`	`not the package, but the osurce`
`18:06.33`	`ChipX86`	`ok`
`18:06.36`	`ChipX86`	`will try that`
`18:06.36`	`TD`	`it's like an autoconf macro`
`18:06.38`	`TD`	`.m4 files and stuff`
`18:06.42`	`TD`	`cool`
`18:06.45`	`ChipX86`	`that makes more sense`
`18:07.03`	`ChipX86`	`btw, "Autopackage Software Installer (GTK+)" shows up in my System menu and in my Applications menu now. :/`
`18:08.27`	`TD`	`huh, really?`
`18:08.30`	`TD`	`what happens if you click on it?`
`18:08.41`	`TD`	`that's clearly a bug that needs to be fixed. you're working from cvs yeah?`
`18:08.43`	`TD`	`also what gnome version?`
`18:11.19`	`kergoth`	`whats the quickest way to do a dropshadow on something in inkscape? just duplicate the object, change the color, lower, and shift its position?`
`18:12.48`	`TD`	`you need to blur stuff as well, not sure how to do that ....`
`18:12.51`	`TD`	`well`
`18:12.56`	`TD`	`for nice drop shadows anyway :)`
`18:13.01`	`kergoth`	`yeah, thats what i was wondering about too`
`18:13.48`	`kergoth`	`you could probably fake it with some gradient manipulation`
`18:13.56`	`kergoth`	`heh`
`18:41.22`	`treke`	`kergoth: hehe. got my phone playing the larry theme when it rings :)`
`18:41.40`	`CosmicPenguin`	`heh`
`18:41.47`	`kergoth`	`nice :)`
`18:50.08`	`treke`	`apparantly I can just send midi files over bluetooth and it works`
`18:50.15`	`kergoth`	`ahh nice`
`18:52.30`	`treke`	`yeah. just need to get some kind of bluetooth dongle for my desktop. Had to borrow a powrbook to do it`
`19:07.40`	`ChipX86`	`back`
`19:07.54`	`ChipX86`	`network died at home, now I'm at work`
`19:07.57`	`ChipX86`	`rather, my network driver`
`19:10.22`	`CosmicPenguin`	`good luck with all of that`
`19:10.47`	`kergoth`	`heh`
`19:12.36`	`ChipX86`	`huh`
`19:12.38`	`ChipX86`	`I work in the UK`
`19:12.51`	`ChipX86`	`and they want me to work on new stuff with abbreviations I have no idea about`
`19:13.11`	`ChipX86`	`confused`
`19:13.15`	`TD`	`ChipX86: hm?`
`19:13.54`	`ChipX86`	`someone highish up in EMC, our parent company, said they're in discussions with my UK manager to have me help design some thing I have no idea about for a part of EMC I've never heard of`
`19:14.00`	`ChipX86`	`and it went out to a whole bunch of EMC people and me`
`19:14.04`	`kergoth`	`heh`
`19:14.05`	`kergoth`	`fun`
`19:14.28`	`TD`	`maybe there is somebody else with a name very similar to ChipX86 working for vmware`
`19:14.31`	`TD`	`ChipX87, perchance?`
`19:14.44`	`ChipX86`	`Chris Hammond they said`
`19:14.45`	`CosmicPenguin`	`THats the problem with being a expert - you often get called in to situations where you have NFC (no fucking clue)`
`19:14.53`	`TD`	`lol`
`19:14.55`	`treke`	`ChipX86: you're in the UK? For some reason I thought you were in the northen california area`
`19:14.59`	`ChipX86`	`I don't want to transfer countries!`
`19:15.00`	`ChipX86`	`treke: I am`
`19:15.03`	`ChipX86`	`(in california)`
`19:15.09`	`TD`	`ChipX86: hey, the UK isn't so bad`
`19:15.12`	`ChipX86`	`part of the massive confusion...`
`19:15.22`	`ChipX86`	`TD: oh pfft, I watch TV! You don't have freedom there!`
`19:15.35`	`TD`	`that's true`
`19:15.37`	`TD`	`or sun`
`19:15.39`	`TD`	`or hot women`
`19:15.41`	`ChipX86`	`that's right.`
`19:15.46`	`TD`	`but hey, if you don't care about freedom or sun or hot women, it's not bad`
`19:15.48`	`TD`	`we have fish'n'chips!`
`19:15.54`	`TD`	`and monty python! :)`
`19:16.19`	`kergoth`	`well hell, fish'n'chips and monty python, thats reason to move right there`
`19:16.27`	`ChipX86`	`what does DR stand for?`
`19:16.36`	`TD`	`in what?`
`19:16.53`	`ChipX86`	`"Global DR"`
`19:17.26`	`kergoth`	`defect report? doctor?`
`19:17.28`	`TD`	`DRUGGED-UP RAVE`
`19:17.48`	`ChipX86`	`it's a law firm...`
`19:17.55`	`ChipX86`	`(the company in reference that they mentioned)`
`19:17.59`	`ChipX86`	`I don't want to work for a law firm in the UK!`
`19:18.01`	`kergoth`	`drugged-up sounds about right then`
`19:19.19`	`TD`	`WTF`
`19:19.19`	`TD`	`http://home.online.no/~osmoma/`
`19:30.39`	`kergoth`	`anyone played with reiser4 at all?`
`19:30.49`	`ChipX86`	`I did, but then it filed charges`
`19:31.18`	`kergoth`	`~herring ChipX86`
`19:31.20`	`purl`	`ACTION whacks ChipX86 on the side of the head with a large red herring named alfred`
`19:32.24`	`CosmicPenguin`	`Thats funny because its funny`
`19:33.09`	`numist`	`ChipX86: how did you take the bus to work and yet stay logged on to IRC? what kind of crazy setup do you have set up?`
`19:33.54`	`TD`	`it's mad`
`19:33.56`	`ChipX86`	`I ssh to home`
`19:33.59`	`ChipX86`	`through pidgeons!`
`19:34.09`	`numist`	`carrier pidgeons? whats the latency?!`
`19:34.10`	`kergoth`	`yay pidgeons, even when they're spelled wrong`
`19:34.11`	`TD`	`squark`
`19:34.16`	`ChipX86`	`yep, tyoped`
`19:34.25`	`kergoth`	`ooh, tyoped.`
`19:34.26`	`ChipX86`	`which is really a difficult trick, because we don't have pigeons here`
`19:34.39`	`numist`	`...`
`19:34.45`	`numist`	`no kidding`
`19:34.49`	`kergoth`	`i wish ctrlproxy would be a bit less quirky`
`19:35.12`	`numist`	`TCP/IP/CP?`
`19:35.17`	`kergoth`	`i'm suddenly in the mood for a pop tart`
`19:35.29`	`ChipX86`	`pfft, vending machines`
`19:35.32`	`ChipX86`	`we have racks full`
`19:35.40`	`ChipX86`	`well, not really, but we have a couple boxes full on a rack`
`19:35.45`	`kergoth`	`bastard`
`19:35.48`	`numist`	`pfft`
`19:36.03`	`ChipX86`	`paying for pop tarts and candy.. weird`
`19:36.11`	`ChipX86`	`noooo`
`19:36.21`	`numist`	`/ping ChipX86`
`19:36.58`	`kergoth`	`my suckiness with graphics is staggering. i think i'm just not a very visual person`
`19:37.17`	`numist`	`Chip: think you can make an SF meetup on sugust 27th?`
`19:37.44`	`ChipX86`	`there's no way I can plan that far ahead`
`19:37.47`	`numist`	`haha`
`19:37.57`	`ChipX86`	`I'm still trying to figure out next week`
`19:38.02`	`numist`	`well, keep it in mind, and rsvp at pf if you can make it`
`19:38.20`	`ChipX86`	`but pagefault isn't here right now`
`19:38.24`	`numist`	`not that pf`
`19:38.28`	`numist`	`prometheusfree.org :P`
`19:38.40`	`ChipX86`	`that's a silly place for him to go. He has here!`
`19:38.49`	`numist`	`...`
`19:39.16`	`numist`	`well.. I suppose you have a point..`
`19:39.19`	`ChipX86`	`ignore me today`
`19:39.25`	`ChipX86`	`I just found out I'm not going to the UK`
`19:39.39`	`numist`	`is that a g�d thing or a b�d thing?`
`19:39.49`	`ChipX86`	`the first, with the "`
`19:40.01`	`numist`	`that wasnt a ", it was a �!!!`
`19:40.03`	`kergoth`	`eh, what character was that? i dont think my irssi likes utf8`
`19:40.14`	`numist`	`it was the german u with the : on top`
`19:40.15`	`CosmicPenguin`	`Whats with not typing vowels?`
`19:40.19`	`numist`	`its a vowel!`
`19:40.31`	`numist`	`and the � was an a with an o on top`
`19:40.34`	`ChipX86`	`not any vowel I'd want sitting in my vocabulary!`
`19:40.40`	`numist`	`hehe`
`19:40.53`	`CosmicPenguin`	`I have enough trouble figuring when y is a vowel`
`19:41.06`	`numist`	`I give up when it comes to that`
`19:41.28`	`numist`	`?`
`19:41.35`	`numist`	`I get the feeling Im missing some background here`
`19:41.50`	`ChipX86`	`they sent an e-mail to the wrong person :)`
`19:41.54`	`ChipX86`	`I apparently work in the UK`
`19:41.59`	`ChipX86`	`tyoped my name wrong`
`19:42.14`	`numist`	`ah, nice`
`19:42.14`	`ChipX86`	`or right? Wait, if you tyop a name, do you do it correctly or incorrectly?`
`19:42.25`	`numist`	`well, did you mean to say tyop?`
`19:42.43`	`ChipX86`	`sure`
`19:42.50`	`numist`	`the correctly, Id imagine`
`20:15.14`	`kergoth`	`can inkscape snap one object to another?`
`20:15.20`	`kergoth`	`or do i need to create a guide and snap them both to that?`
`20:20.02`	`kergoth`	`hah, i built a new kernel for my desktop right`
`20:20.09`	`kergoth`	`it reboots as soon as it hits the acpi setup`
`20:20.11`	`kergoth`	`every time`
`20:20.14`	`kergoth`	`whee`
`20:21.14`	`ChipX86`	`kergoth: Object -> Align and Distribute`
`20:21.38`	`CosmicPenguin`	`~lart acpi`
`20:21.54`	`CosmicPenguin`	`usually its acpi that DOSes us..`
`20:23.31`	`TD`	`ChipX86: emc ....`
`20:23.32`	`TD`	`Rick Wheeler - EMC:`
`20:23.32`	`TD`	`<PROTECTED>`
`20:23.32`	`TD`	`<PROTECTED>`
`20:23.32`	`TD`	`<PROTECTED>`
`20:23.32`	`TD`	`<PROTECTED>`
`20:23.33`	`TD`	`<PROTECTED>`
`20:23.36`	`TD`	`they are involved in OSDL at least`
`20:24.07`	`kergoth`	`ChipX86: yes, i know about that. how do i align one object to the edge of another with that?`
`20:24.32`	`ChipX86`	`TD: I know EMC. They're our parent company :)`
`20:25.05`	`ChipX86`	`kergoth: select one, select the other, choose First Selected or Last Selected, and then experiment with the Align buttons`
`20:25.35`	`kergoth`	`ChipX86: ahh`
`20:25.37`	`kergoth`	`thanks`
`20:25.50`	`kergoth`	`didnt notice that first selected/last selected, thats cool`
`20:25.51`	`purple_cow`	`heh, sounds like the procedure for MIDI quantization`
`20:25.58`	`TD`	`ahhh`
`20:26.02`	`purple_cow`	`there's got to be a better way that those kind of things could be done`
`20:27.59`	`CosmicPenguin`	`ugh - school on a friday?`
`20:28.17`	`purple_cow`	`CosmicPenguin: yep`
`20:28.22`	`CosmicPenguin`	`that sucks`
`20:28.27`	`CosmicPenguin`	`~lart your school`
`20:29.26`	`*** join/#devlounge kergoth (~kergoth@proxysb02.ext.ti.com)`
`20:31.14`	`*** join/#devlounge kergoth_ (~kergoth@li11-226.members.linode.com)`
`21:11.54`	`treke`	`are we sure that it isn't monday again?`
`21:13.33`	`*** join/#devlounge nullpupp1 (~dustin@c-67-168-57-175.client.comcast.net)`
`21:15.12`	`ChipX86`	`it appears to be friday, since we're playing Pacman Vs. later`
`21:15.18`	`ChipX86`	`and that's a Friday event`
`21:15.34`	`treke`	`I guess it could be a friday as well`
`21:15.42`	`kergoth`	`~friday`
`21:15.43`	`purl`	`Friday sucks, because it should be the weekend, but you're stuck working anyway.`
`21:15.44`	`numist`	`you sure its a weekday?`
`21:15.49`	`treke`	`mondays and fridays are equally horrible`
`21:15.55`	`numist`	`damnit I need to get out of this place`
`21:16.04`	`kergoth`	`..`
`21:16.11`	`numist`	`ChipX86: nice`
`21:16.21`	`ChipX86`	`I've transferred it around between computers and it's on every desktop :P`
`21:16.25`	`numist`	`nice`
`21:16.26`	`ChipX86`	`numist: :)`
`21:16.29`	`ChipX86`	`did I show you her pic?`
`21:16.32`	`numist`	`I dont have that many pics of Insignia`
`21:16.33`	`numist`	`yeah you did`
`21:16.43`	`numist`	`all my pics are real pics, since neither of us have a digicam`
`21:16.51`	`numist`	`and my SLR is lost somewhere -wail-`
`21:16.57`	`ChipX86`	`that was scanned from a real pic. I have the real pic leaning against my monitor`
`21:17.09`	`numist`	`no scanner either, sadly`
`21:17.13`	`ChipX86`	`:(`
`21:17.26`	`numist`	`my dad has one though, maybe next time Im in the Gilroy area`
`21:17.51`	`ChipX86`	`and Chippy stood on his rock and raised his arms into the air, wildly, like a mad man, and shouted, "There there be VMware mimetype icons!" and it was thusly so, doneth.`
`21:18.05`	`kergoth`	`you have a rock?`
`21:18.06`	`numist`	`s/there/will/`
`21:18.13`	`ChipX86`	`no :( I just pretend I do`
`21:18.15`	`kergoth`	`:(`
`21:18.19`	`kergoth`	`you should get a rock`
`21:18.20`	`numist`	`he has a desk to do it with though`
`21:18.22`	`ChipX86`	`I should`
`21:18.25`	`kergoth`	`thats not the same`
`21:18.26`	`ChipX86`	`yeah, I have a desk`
`21:18.34`	`numist`	`haha Ill help you move it in even.. a big rock to do such things on`
`21:18.35`	`ChipX86`	`I only use a corner of it. There's a good 5 feet of desk I haven't touched`
`21:18.42`	`kergoth`	`you could hang from an overhead lamp instead`
`21:18.49`	`ChipX86`	`well, the new office has lots of big boulders`
`21:18.57`	`ChipX86`	`but they surround the fountains and ponds`
`21:19.02`	`numist`	`wow, my desk is chock full, I need a more significant desk`
`21:19.03`	`ChipX86`	`and the ducks will get mad at me again`
`21:19.21`	`ChipX86`	`er, s/new office/new building/`
`21:19.27`	`numist`	`bah, fear not for they are your loyal subjects`
`21:19.37`	`ChipX86`	`that's not what they said! :(`
`21:19.52`	`kergoth`	`:(`
`21:19.58`	`numist`	`boo`
`21:20.03`	`ChipX86`	`gasp`
`21:20.08`	`kergoth`	`?`
`21:20.18`	`ChipX86`	`numist said boo`
`21:20.23`	`kergoth`	`ah`
`21:20.26`	`ChipX86`	`I'm in an odd mood, just ignore me`
`21:20.26`	`numist`	`aye, isnt that risky?`
`21:20.30`	`TD`	`hello!`
`21:20.33`	`ChipX86`	`hello!`
`21:20.36`	`numist`	`I like Chip when he's in an odd mood`
`21:21.04`	`numist`	`ack christian retirement community!!!`
`21:21.14`	`ChipX86`	`yay!`
`21:21.20`	`ChipX86`	`my very own retirement community`
`21:21.21`	`numist`	`Chip: did that line highlight?`
`21:21.29`	`ChipX86`	`nope`
`21:21.34`	`numist`	`damn`
`21:21.51`	`numist`	`mine highlights on all sorts of things... SuperMidget calls me scrumptious now instead of numist :X`
`21:23.18`	`numist`	`woo`
`21:23.25`	`ChipX86`	`because why not`
`21:24.02`	`numist`	`why not`
`21:24.18`	`numist`	`I like it better on mac where I can just copy paste images as if they were any other data type`
`21:24.27`	`numist`	`there, icons for all :P`
`21:25.01`	`TD`	`go for it`
`21:25.07`	`treke`	`ChipX86: do we have you to thank for the new gtk2 ui? :p`
`21:25.08`	`TD`	`i wish we could do that stuff for crossover`
`21:27.11`	`ChipX86`	`treke: parts of it`
`21:27.54`	`kergoth`	`15:49 < CIA-8> kergoth * r1.3118 openembedded/packages/ipkg/ (ipkg_0.99.144.bb ipkg-0.99.144/paths.patch): Fix`
`21:27.57`	`kergoth`	`<PROTECTED>`
`21:28.17`	`ChipX86`	`let's see.. I did the new dialog boxes that size to the golden ratio, the SVG parts of the snapshot manager, pixbuf implementation, wizard frameworks, thinks`
`21:28.20`	`ChipX86`	`movie capture UI`
`21:28.40`	`ChipX86`	`put in the new icons`
`21:28.57`	`ChipX86`	`some other stuff.. I don't just do UI stuff though. Somehow, I managed to get myself into a position where I do a bit of backend work too`
`21:29.27`	`ChipX86`	`icons on tabs :D`
`21:30.09`	`*** join/#devlounge mathrick (~mathrick@195.116.35.55)`
`21:31.03`	`TD`	`cool`
`21:31.08`	`TD`	`backend work? like on the emulator?`
`21:31.28`	`ChipX86`	`nah, guest OS information, favorites list storage, and other htings`
`21:31.32`	`TD`	`cool`
`21:32.00`	`TD`	`unfortunately the guy who does our config ui isn't really an UI expert. and tcl/tk blows but we can't afford or justify rewriting it`
`21:32.01`	`TD`	`<sigh>`
`21:32.06`	`ChipX86`	`:(`
`21:32.12`	`TD`	`long term the way we want to go is just deeper and deeper desktop integration`
`21:32.13`	`ChipX86`	`better than our perl script config wizard`
`21:32.15`	`TD`	`like with gnome`
`21:32.15`	`ChipX86`	`I may have to rewrite that`
`21:32.19`	`ChipX86`	`yeah`
`21:32.23`	`ChipX86`	`that's what we're hoping for too`
`21:32.30`	`CosmicPenguin`	`Every development team needs a GUI guru`
`21:32.33`	`ChipX86`	`like, my code to use the gnome default browser if available`
`21:32.36`	`CosmicPenguin`	`and/or a graphical designer`
`21:32.39`	`ChipX86`	`fd.o spec compliance`
`21:32.42`	`TD`	`you seen the way VPC for Mac does it?`
`21:32.51`	`TD`	`yeah well most of the gui config stuff could be dropped`
`21:33.02`	`ChipX86`	`no, I haven't`
`21:33.12`	`TD`	`it's used primarily for installing new apps, and access to the control panel. and stuff like setting proxies`
`21:33.18`	`TD`	`we could do all of that using desktop integration`
`21:33.22`	`TD`	`hmm VPC is pretty elite`
`21:33.34`	`TD`	`if you click the icon in the dock you get a pretend start menu. except it looks just like the real thing`
`21:33.43`	`TD`	`you click an app in it, and it boots windows then runs that app`
`21:34.16`	`ChipX86`	`oh nice`
`21:34.58`	`numist`	`haha`
`21:35.05`	`mathrick`	`honest`
`21:35.19`	`mathrick`	`I can't understand single thing from it`
`21:35.34`	`ChipX86`	`and they yell at gaim for having a bad UI ;)`
`21:35.34`	`numist`	`works for me sans cam and audio equipment`
`21:35.34`	`mathrick`	`and it can't be resized`
`21:35.56`	`mathrick`	`and its UI metaphors suck in general`
`21:36.00`	`TD`	`heh`
`21:36.07`	`mathrick`	`and it has baddest about box evar`
`21:36.13`	`TD`	`well, they spend most of their time making it interop better i guess`
`21:36.17`	`ChipX86`	`bad as in good or as in bad?`
`21:36.21`	`TD`	`but seriously, the best UI for that is a physical phone`
`21:36.35`	`mathrick`	`I almost forgot you can make about box I can't comprehend... -_-'`
`21:36.49`	`mathrick`	`s/have/had/`
`21:37.02`	`ChipX86`	`TD: no, the best UI is one of those talking dogs that you plug the phone cord into`
`21:37.07`	`TD`	`haha`
`21:37.10`	`ChipX86`	`and you talk to the dog`
`21:37.16`	`ChipX86`	`and when the other person talks, it looks like the dog is talking`
`21:37.19`	`ChipX86`	`THAT is kick-ass UI`
`21:37.28`	`mathrick`	`ChipX86: bad as in total suckage`
`21:37.37`	`mathrick`	`ChipX86: just try it`
`21:37.45`	`ChipX86`	`TD: they rock`
`21:37.54`	`mathrick`	`if you aren't deep into VoIP, you won't understand what it says`
`21:38.05`	`TD`	`VoIP is a bit like that though`
`21:38.39`	`mathrick`	`TD: whatever, why do they need to expose that in fucking about box, for christ sake!?`
`21:38.57`	`TD`	`dundi`
`21:39.06`	`mathrick`	`I never liked gnomemeeting being in GNOME, now I know why`
`21:39.08`	`TD`	`heh`
`21:39.31`	`mathrick`	`no offense for devs, they are probably hard working people`
`21:39.33`	`TD`	`mathrick: you ever seen the crossover ui?`
`21:39.38`	`mathrick`	`but man, this is horrible`
`21:39.40`	`mathrick`	`TD: nah`
`21:39.45`	`mathrick`	`TD: what about it?`
`21:39.50`	`TD`	`good. you'd probably have an epileptic fit ;)`
`21:39.54`	`mathrick`	`heh`
`21:40.05`	`TD`	`it's not super technical or anything`
`21:40.15`	`mathrick`	`say what you want, GNOME does spoil you`
`21:40.18`	`TD`	`but, eg, the widgets are not aligned with each other`
`21:40.23`	`mathrick`	`_-_`
`21:40.42`	`TD`	`there is a list view that shows what is in the control panel. it looks like you can double click the list item to open up that .cpl`
`21:40.49`	`TD`	`but in fact you have to click the icon, which is also an invisible button`
`21:41.00`	`TD`	`and some icons are 16x16, so it's not obvious that this is what you have to do`
`21:41.11`	`mathrick`	`whoa`
`21:46.07`	`*** join/#devlounge treke (~ggilbert@tinman.treke.net)`
`21:52.29`	`*** join/#devlounge numist (~numist@numist.sustaining.supporter.pdpc)`
`22:26.41`	`numist`	`I cant believe this guy...`
`22:27.07`	`numist`	`I just ran the w3c validator on this users site to see why it didnt work in my browser.. Ive never seen these errors before... and his reply?`
`22:27.08`	`numist`	`<MacGnG> its worked for years, adn im not gonna just go change it cause someone tells me to`
`22:27.16`	`purple_cow`	`heh`
`22:27.26`	`numist`	`I... words fail me...`
`22:28.15`	`CosmicPenguin`	`Introduce him to the special edition cluebat, engraved with Moore's law`
`22:28.16`	`ChipX86`	`me neither`
`22:28.45`	`numist`	`Ive given up... back to coding`
`22:32.15`	`numist`	`at least I found that error... apparently someone committed a revision that removed a var I used for a lot of conditionals`
`23:23.54`	`*** join/#devlounge grim_ (~grim@CPE-65-30-220-237.wi.rr.com)`
`23:30.13`	`*** join/#devlounge Lathiat (lathiat@penguins.squaa.org)`
`23:51.08`	`*** join/#devlounge grim (~grim@grim.developer.guifications)`
`23:52.43`	`*** join/#devlounge Tybstar (~tgerla@cpe-024-211-167-211.nc.rr.com)`

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