| 00:36.46 | *** join/#devuan wildlander (~wild@unaffiliated/wildlander) |
| 00:37.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL, my mirror was no multiplier but a divider |
| 00:38.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't buy the "WE'RE UNDER HEAVY LOAD" |
| 00:42.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | !mirrors |
| 00:42.31 | infobot | it has been said that mirrors is https://devuan.voyanet.org/ http://devuan.lucylaika.ovh http://neo900_devuanfiles.dev-1.org (eventually, until then:) http://devuan-temporary-mirror.almesberger.net |
| 00:42.59 | ksx4system | meh, no http://devuan.ksx4system.net |
| 00:43.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | forget it, I had a DL/UL of 10/4 so far |
| 00:44.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | so prolly all the "VERY HEAVY LOAD" comes only from the mirrors |
| 00:45.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | without my mirror, devuan.org had 6GB less to serve |
| 00:46.29 | ksx4system | I've used torrent to get files |
| 00:46.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's prolly rather everybody and his dog tries the netinstall or the stripped CD version, and then downloads like mad with apt-get |
| 00:47.07 | ksx4system | maybe |
| 00:47.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | there simple file mirrors won't help |
| 00:48.39 | *** join/#devuan txt-file (~txt.file@is.txtfile.eu) |
| 00:49.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((torrent)) me too, here at home |
| 00:49.48 | ksx4system | upgraded VPS to seed that lol |
| 00:51.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm seeding but nobody downloads |
| 00:51.40 | ksx4system | weird |
| 00:52.16 | ksx4system | I already have 1.1 ratio and it's not even 24 hours since I've started seeding |
| 00:53.07 | ksx4system | constant traffic around 0.5-1.0mbit/s |
| 00:58.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway on http://devuan-temporary-mirror.almesberger.net constant traffic of 0 |
| 00:58.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | except my ssh |
| 00:59.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:10.02 | ksx4system | aria2c says it's still 10GB-ish transmitted out |
| 01:14.41 | *** join/#devuan Defiant (erik@x4e3677d0.dyn.telefonica.de) |
| 01:22.47 | *** join/#devuan figlfdev (183e6d83@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.62.109.131) |
| 01:24.28 | figlfdev | jaromil: Centurion_Dan: (sorry dan) i have used devuan since march '15, ive donated, and i would PREFER to congratulate you right now, but instead i have to call out the arrogance and short-sightedness of deleting VITAL isos from your servers-- i AT LEAST need the valentine iso |
| 01:24.56 | figlfdev | i can barely use alpha2, alpha4 is useless to me, and beta installer is 100% FAIL for me. |
| 01:25.23 | figlfdev | even though i can use gnuinos (cheers aitor) and then dist-upgrade to devuan repos, theres now no DEVUAN installer for me. |
| 01:25.46 | figlfdev | GONE. why did you delete it? heck, the link was HIDDEN already! youre forcing me to be your beta tester? |
| 01:26.05 | figlfdev | TESTED: debootstrap error. cant find which version blah blah blah (useless.) |
| 01:26.33 | figlfdev | better luck with next version. in the meantime, please have one WORKING ISO up at all times. CIAO. |
| 01:27.21 | figlfdev | ive been reading the mailing list and irc logs as long as theyve been up. i will do what i can to make this work. i shouldnt be so desperate right now-- but you have to delete stuff eh |
| 01:27.36 | figlfdev | be seeing you. |
| 01:33.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | ouch |
| 01:34.30 | *** join/#devuan armin (~armin@base.m2m.pm) |
| 01:39.02 | *** join/#devuan debdog (~debdog@HSI-KBW-091-089-090-041.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 01:39.09 | minnesotags | Yeah. |
| 01:39.43 | *** join/#devuan Ryushin (user@windwalker.chrisdos.com) |
| 01:42.06 | *** join/#devuan MobileKittuns (~KittenGNU@unaffiliated/kittengnu) |
| 01:45.18 | Vall | parazyd: agreed. |
| 01:46.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | one general advice: no rollouts (of whatever) on Fridays/Saturdays - unless you made damn sure *everybody* got 48h on duty to manage the fallout |
| 01:49.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | the usual pattern alas is: everybody works like a dog to accomplish the rollout, usually during last 2 days lots of things get done sloppy to keep the deadline, the rollout and everybody waves and leaves for a week of holiday to recover from the stress |
| 01:51.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | there should be a no-holidays_24/7-duty policy until at least 1 week *after* rollout |
| 01:52.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | then _officially_ announce 1 week off, for everybody, after the earthquake settled |
| 01:54.27 | *** join/#devuan nextime (~nextime@unaffiliated/nextime) |
| 01:56.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, devuan is also learning, this been the first big rollout afaik. for that it worked great :-) |
| 01:56.34 | furrywolf | rollout? did we get 1.0 out? or still beta? |
| 01:56.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | beta |
| 01:56.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | but official and supposedly quite stable beta |
| 01:57.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | furrywolf: did you enjoy your holiday on Robinson's Island? ;-) |
| 01:57.45 | furrywolf | ah. I don't usually think of betas as being major events... |
| 01:57.47 | furrywolf | ? |
| 01:57.53 | Vall | parazyd: albeit, bringing something to "perfection" sometimes should be avoided too. If the benefits aren't very clear and worth it, most of the time I think the best thing to do is just do nothing and let well enough alone. |
| 01:58.23 | Vall | parazyd: of course fixing bugs is always worthwhile, tho. |
| 01:58.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | furrywolf: it's even "been in the news" |
| 01:59.54 | *** join/#devuan Hoshpak (~Hoshpak@p2003005B4B4D5600789609E2153ED225.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:00.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | Vall: you refer to the age old saying of "in every project there comes a moment where you should shoot the developer and hand over to the marketing"? |
| 02:01.37 | Vall | DocScrutinizer05: I refer to the age-old saying that "in every project, all marketing should be shot dead at the start" |
| 02:01.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehehe |
| 02:01.49 | Vall | :-) |
| 02:02.08 | Vall | Or perhaps flayed and burned would be more fun ;-) |
| 02:02.09 | MinceR | yeah, can't go wrong with "shoot everyone dead", can you? :> |
| 02:02.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | Make My Daaay!!! |
| 02:02.49 | MinceR | :) |
| 02:03.09 | Vall | MinceR: "kill them all, God will know his own" |
| 02:03.16 | MinceR | :> |
| 02:03.24 | Vall | Was right in 1209, still right today ;-) |
| 02:03.25 | MinceR | assuming there's a "God" |
| 02:03.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | I met her yesterday |
| 02:03.57 | MinceR | how do you know it was "God"? |
| 02:03.59 | Vall | MinceR: well, if there isn't a God, we should invent one, as He/She/It is damn useful ;-) |
| 02:04.22 | MinceR | actually, i have a far more interesting question than that |
| 02:04.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | she wore a T-shirt with a print saying so :-) |
| 02:04.40 | MinceR | insufficient evidence |
| 02:04.54 | Vall | DocScrutinizer05: you are lying, *I* didn't meet anyone yesterday! ;-) |
| 02:04.56 | MinceR | is there a way to allow the mouse pointer to go into the area of the desktop not covered by CRTC-s in X? |
| 02:05.23 | MinceR | (and if so, what is it?) |
| 02:05.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | did you lend out your T-shirt? |
| 02:05.44 | Vall | DocScrutinizer05: no, but someone must have taken it from the clothesline ;-) |
| 02:05.52 | MinceR | i'm pretty sure several t-shirts can be manufactured with the same print |
| 02:05.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang! |
| 02:06.12 | Vall | MinceR: so there you have it, there's several gods ;-) |
| 02:06.28 | MinceR | pretty loose definition |
| 02:06.33 | Vall | MinceR: have you printed yours already? ;-) |
| 02:06.44 | MinceR | i don't need to have such a thing printed |
| 02:06.48 | MinceR | i already know who i am |
| 02:06.56 | furrywolf | DocScrutinizer: Robinson's island? as in robinson crusoe? I don't get it. |
| 02:07.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | furrywolf: I just wondered what was the reason you obviously were cut off from the news |
| 02:07.53 | furrywolf | oh. because most of my life doesn't involve being at the computer. and I don't tend to read news. lol |
| 02:08.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | just kidding |
| 02:09.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | furrywolf: if you want to do me and my server a favor, use http://devuan-temporary-mirror.almesberger.net to download the DVD.iso to do a test install |
| 02:10.21 | Centurion_Dan | I've just tested redirects to use the pool from local debian mirrors for debian packages and it works great. I'll look to start implementing them for all the CC mirrors soon |
| 02:10.32 | furrywolf | my internet connection is 50KB/sec and $11/GB. I use netinst, AND copy all the .debs off my other boxes as soon as the base system is installed, so I don't re-download any packages I already got... |
| 02:10.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | netinstall (and even the CD.iso is sparse and thus installs lots of packages over network) been reported to randomly fail on downloading packages |
| 02:10.59 | furrywolf | I'll let someone with a better connection download DVD ISOs. :) |
| 02:11.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | (connection) fair enough a rationale at your side, pretty unfair plan |
| 02:11.28 | Centurion_Dan | my local debian mirror is way faster then debians httpredir |
| 02:12.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | is this wireless? |
| 02:13.00 | Centurion_Dan | furrywolf: are you on satellite or something? |
| 02:13.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | I mean, 11$/GB :-o |
| 02:13.21 | furrywolf | 3G, virgin mobile |
| 02:13.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | mobile, thought as much |
| 02:13.49 | Centurion_Dan | it can't be a virgin if it's raping you for that much :-P |
| 02:13.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehehe |
| 02:14.32 | minnesotags | DocScrutinizer05: I'm downloading off your mirror. |
| 02:14.48 | Centurion_Dan | bbl |
| 02:15.13 | minnesotags | 100kb/s |
| 02:15.27 | furrywolf | they also rape anything that looks like html transferred over it. I have to tunnel everything. |
| 02:15.36 | minnesotags | This is only a cable connection here, though. |
| 02:15.36 | furrywolf | they insert javascript into page loads |
| 02:16.55 | *** join/#devuan dbergst (~dbergst@pool-173-79-196-94.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 02:17.04 | minnesotags | I stopped it. |
| 02:18.39 | minnesotags | DocScrutinizer05, I'm now downloading it on my gig connection off your mirror. |
| 02:19.57 | minnesotags | avg 4.5mb/s. |
| 02:22.12 | minnesotags | Trying your dvd |
| 02:24.13 | *** join/#devuan fsmithred (~fsmithred@68-184-46-18.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) |
| 02:26.06 | fsmithred | Centurion_Dan, installer is looking for cdrom/dists/jessie/main/debian-installer/binary-i386/Packages but it does not exist. Packages.gz does exist. |
| 02:27.54 | Centurion_Dan | fsmithred: that's odd... |
| 02:28.09 | fsmithred | am I the only one? |
| 02:29.28 | Centurion_Dan | so far... does it prevent the install? |
| 02:29.37 | fsmithred | yes |
| 02:29.53 | Centurion_Dan | can you send me a screencap of that? |
| 02:30.04 | fsmithred | I thought I saved the syslog, but ro filesystem |
| 02:30.15 | fsmithred | yeah, I got a screenshot of the list of missing packages |
| 02:31.18 | fsmithred | sent |
| 02:33.28 | Centurion_Dan | thanks that is useful. |
| 02:33.49 | minnesotags | Hi Centurion_Dan; I'm trying to log in to the cloud instance. ssh works using debian@x.x.x.x user, but then no login. Any ideas? |
| 02:33.55 | fsmithred | running installer again, will try to save the syslog |
| 02:34.40 | Centurion_Dan | minnesotags: where is the cloud instance being setup? |
| 02:34.41 | furrywolf | I resorted to take-picture-of-monitor-with-camera when I was reporting my installer bugs. |
| 02:34.57 | fsmithred | lol, been there, done that. |
| 02:35.10 | minnesotags | I can shoot you the ip address. |
| 02:36.07 | fsmithred | bb in a few minutes |
| 02:36.08 | Centurion_Dan | does the control panel for the hosting provider not provide an api setting the root password or ssh key?? |
| 02:36.17 | Centurion_Dan | minnesotags: ^^ |
| 02:36.58 | Centurion_Dan | fsmithred: would you be interested in building refractor devuan edition on our infrastructure?? |
| 02:37.19 | minnesotags | I'm the hosting provider. |
| 02:37.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | minnesotags: RX bytes:11299010241 (10775.5 Mb) TX bytes:10640387486 (10147.4 Mb) break-even \o/ thanks! :-) |
| 02:37.52 | minnesotags | 4.36G 6.28MB/s in 15m 12ss |
| 02:38.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | now the mirror doesn't feel *completely* useless anymore |
| 02:38.07 | minnesotags | lol |
| 02:39.04 | minnesotags | Hi Centurion_Dan, I can set the ssh key and can ssh in to it, I can also use the vnc console and get to a login screen. |
| 02:39.33 | minnesotags | Problem is it doesn't ssh to a working console, just a $ |
| 02:40.25 | Centurion_Dan | minnesotags: hmmm is bash installed?? |
| 02:44.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | minnesotags: only 4.5MB/s? that's a tad lame for two supposedly Gbit links |
| 02:46.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | overhead for ping RTT with HTTP download? |
| 02:47.59 | *** join/#devuan mland_ (~user@dslb-188-106-207-020.188.106.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 02:49.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | on the bright side: my local torrent started seeding again with decent 90% of allowed bandwidth |
| 02:51.16 | minnesotags | DocScrutinizer05; Don't know what to tell you. That machine is in the best connected building in the city. |
| 02:51.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | considers again to start a cmdline torrent client on the server. Any suggestions? |
| 02:51.44 | koollman | DocScrutinizer05: rtorrent or ctorrent are decent, iirc |
| 02:51.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | koollman: thanks |
| 02:52.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | ctorrent reported to have some issues |
| 02:52.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | so I'll see if I can install rtorrent on this box |
| 02:53.53 | minnesotags | Centurion_Dan; I sent a key download link to a new fired up OpenStack Devuan instance. login info is via email. |
| 02:55.16 | minnesotags | Doc, that is actually 6.28MB/s. |
| 02:56.54 | minnesotags | Still... |
| 02:57.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | koollman: ok, got rtorrent. sorry for the noob question, but how would I start seeding the already downloaded files now, so the client joins in to the swarm? |
| 02:58.11 | minnesotags | Doc, I used wget to your http://address above. |
| 03:00.24 | koollman | DocScrutinizer05: start your torrent, stop it, replace the file with your finished file, start again. rtorrent will check the hash, consider it finished and start seeding |
| 03:00.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | aah thanks |
| 03:01.03 | koollman | DocScrutinizer05: you could guess what the file will be named but it depends on the rtorrent configuration/version you have |
| 03:02.46 | Centurion_Dan | minnesotags: what key... nothing attached |
| 03:02.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, seems I'm pretty lost with rtorrent "gui" |
| 03:03.20 | Centurion_Dan | anyway I'm off to spend time with the family... bbl |
| 03:04.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | minnesotags: no idea where's the bottleneck, had expected rather like 50MB/s than 5 |
| 03:05.15 | *** join/#devuan KiloJuliet (~gplgeek@pdpc/supporter/student/GPLGeek) |
| 03:10.37 | minnesotags | Hi Centurion_Dan,was in a separate email. |
| 03:10.47 | minnesotags | Sent via OwnCloud. |
| 03:21.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | koollman: http://wstaw.org/m/2016/05/01/plasma-desktopKo2219.png thanks, seems to work as described |
| 03:30.17 | comradekingu | https://www.dragonbox.de/en/45-pyra is live :) |
| 03:31.38 | minnesotags | Alright, NOW I sent it via OwnCloud.... :-( what a pain that was. |
| 03:41.47 | koollman | DocScrutinizer05: good :) |
| 03:42.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, but a pathetic 5 peers 2 leeching at 60kB resp 10kB |
| 03:43.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, 4 leeching now |
| 03:46.47 | *** join/#devuan githogori_ (~githogori@c-73-70-12-67.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 03:55.46 | *** join/#devuan Myk267 (~myk@unaffiliated/myk267) |
| 03:57.20 | DusXMT | Awesome, reporting a successful install on an encrypted root filesystem using the NETINST i386 cd... although the "Getting additional software" step failed after downloading all the stuff, it worked okay after retrying the step |
| 03:58.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | \o/ |
| 03:58.30 | DusXMT | :) |
| 03:59.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | (("Getting additional software" step failed)) I guess that might be related to the repos being quite heavily hammered |
| 03:59.27 | DusXMT | Very possible |
| 03:59.27 | *** join/#devuan frotz47 (~matthew@cpe-108-183-162-219.maine.res.rr.com) |
| 03:59.46 | *** join/#devuan DocScrutinizer05 (~saturn@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 03:59.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | (("Getting additional software" step failed)) I guess that might be related to the repos being quite heavily hammered |
| 04:01.34 | *** join/#devuan golinux (~golinux@unaffiliated/golinux) |
| 04:02.51 | DusXMT | Though it's kinda strange that it failed _after_ it was all downloaded; I looked at the console and it didn't download anything on the second go. But of course, silly me forgot to look at the console when it was happening, so I guess we can't do much with it now. |
| 04:18.52 | *** join/#devuan dardevelin (~dardeveli@unaffiliated/dardevelin) |
| 04:26.48 | minnesotags | Alright. Duh, as Centurion_Dan suggested, need to run bash after logging in to the _cloud_ image as "debian" user. Devuan user does not work with ssh. There is a lot of legacy Debian stuff in this qcow2. |
| 04:27.42 | minnesotags | Also, using password for sudo is enabled, but there are no passwords set.... |
| 04:33.14 | KiloJuliet | So how 'ready' is devuan. |
| 04:33.42 | KiloJuliet | Was thinking of setting up my plex/camera server using devuan first to test out. |
| 04:34.47 | comradekingu | In terms of bodily readiness, how ready are you for devuan to be ready |
| 05:24.23 | *** join/#devuan konsolebox (~konsolebo@112.198.103.164) |
| 05:27.12 | Centurion_Dan | KiloJuliet: give it a spin and let us know what you think. |
| 05:29.59 | Centurion_Dan | KiloJuliet: If your used to debian wheezy then it's pretty much more of the same with newer packages really (and less systemd bits snuck in. |
| 05:31.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | torrent question (by noob): I run a seeding torrent and get only max 6 leechers, with only max 100kB/s total, while the infra could handle 10 to 100 times that. What do I need to tune? |
| 05:33.42 | Centurion_Dan | DocScrutinizer05: I don't torrent, but suggest you look at per connection and max bandwidth settings and max number of leechers.. |
| 05:33.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | aiui there would be 30 or more leechers interested, and even the 6 I got don't all download |
| 05:34.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | Centurion_Dan: I checked that to the best of my lacking knowledge about (r)torrent |
| 05:35.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | bandwidth _should_ be unthrottled |
| 05:35.28 | Centurion_Dan | I imagine that's all configurable in your torrent util. In addition I imagine that you may be able to set a timeout to kick leechers that aren't leeching. |
| 05:36.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't even get the slightest idea what "*minimum* peers" might define |
| 05:37.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2016/05/01/plasma-desktopIJ2219.png |
| 05:39.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2016/05/01/plasma-desktopUI2219.png http://wstaw.org/m/2016/05/01/plasma-desktopfD2219.png |
| 05:40.25 | *** join/#devuan qmr (~qmr@sec.qmr.io) |
| 05:40.31 | qmr | so |
| 05:40.38 | qmr | has this devuan thing taken off at all? |
| 05:43.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes? |
| 05:43.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | obviously |
| 05:44.20 | minnesotags | Hi Centurion_Dan; BTW, thanks for all the great work you have done. I realized that the main problem is that the Devuan cloud image requires password for sudo. Since no password is available for the Debian user (you login with presalted ssh), then you can't do anything with it. Plus the image needs to be fixed to remove the debian user and other debian legacy stuff. |
| 05:45.04 | qmr | mmhmm, I see, I see |
| 05:45.39 | minnesotags | qmr: Yes. This devuan thing has long been working just fine. |
| 05:46.37 | qmr | anyone using it on a few (thousand) racks yet? |
| 05:48.18 | minnesotags | Hard saying not knowing. |
| 05:49.07 | Centurion_Dan | the image has been built using devuan-sdk so raise your issues against that project in gitlab. I'm going to look at forking the openstack-debian-images package and make it work for devuan (it requires trivial changes). |
| 05:49.19 | minnesotags | But if you want, I'm sure there are a few million people using Windows 7 on racks. |
| 05:49.35 | minnesotags | Got it. |
| 05:49.43 | Centurion_Dan | qmr: are you keen to do so? |
| 05:51.14 | qmr | Centurion_Dan: I'll be #4 in line |
| 05:51.31 | qmr | probably going to use smartos for my next project. it looks pretty fancy |
| 05:52.31 | minnesotags | qmr: I've got about a dozen Devuan servers virtual and bare metal running without incident for over a year now. |
| 05:53.05 | minnesotags | And that was during the early alpha stages. |
| 05:55.26 | minnesotags | I'm betting the OpenStack image was built off the debian image because logging in as debian@ via ssh is exactly the way you do it with the Debian image. |
| 06:05.29 | qmr | that word triggers me :| |
| 06:07.18 | Centurion_Dan | minnesotags: I'm working on the openstack-devuan-images package now... |
| 06:13.45 | minnesotags | Issues filed in gitlab! ;-) |
| 06:14.54 | minnesotags | Centurion_Dan; Bravissimo! Lol. |
| 06:15.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, could it be that there's so much overprovisioning of available bandwith by torrent seeders that the bottleneck is at the leechers' downlink BW? |
| 06:15.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | not what I've seen when I downloaded by torrent, but would fit what I see in seeding now |
| 06:30.48 | minnesotags | Bedtime! |
| 06:36.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | Centurion_Dan: I've just seen a single peer downloading from my server with >300kB/s |
| 06:36.52 | *** join/#devuan Deys (~deys@124.155.255.219) |
| 06:37.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | so at least can't be throttling on my end? |
| 06:37.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | wow, 440 and 230kB/s on two peers |
| 06:37.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | 588 |
| 06:39.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | [Rate 788,5/ 1,8 KB] that's more like it |
| 06:49.08 | Deys | Loved how you folks named it Devuan GNU+Linux |
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| 08:31.10 | Centurion_Dan | minnesotags: I |
| 08:32.05 | Centurion_Dan | have just completed packaging openstack-devuan-images and about to build it in jessie-proposed (devel repo) |
| 08:32.51 | *** join/#devuan Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 08:33.14 | Centurion_Dan | Deys: yeah ;-) |
| 08:35.18 | KatolaZ | Centurion_Dan: what is the best way to report bugs/glitched in the current beta images? |
| 08:35.33 | KatolaZ | e.g., some sections of the armhf repo are missing |
| 08:35.47 | KatolaZ | as I noticed upgrading my devuans on rpi2 |
| 08:36.20 | KatolaZ | it is just jessie-security and jessie-updates |
| 08:38.29 | Centurion_Dan | KatolaZ: email me a list of the effected packages... I know all the arms have some FTBFS's, but what is key for a base install that needs to be fixed. |
| 08:38.40 | KatolaZ | no package in particular |
| 08:38.46 | KatolaZ | is the repo that does not exists |
| 08:39.02 | KatolaZ | W: Failed to fetch http://packages.devuan.org/merged/dists/jessie-security/InRelease Unable to find expected entry 'nonfree/binary-armhf/Packages' in Release file (Wrong sources.list entry or malformed file) |
| 08:39.28 | KatolaZ | (I know, I am using packages.devuan.org instead of auto.mirror.devuan.org, but this whould not make a difference, so far) |
| 08:39.53 | KatolaZ | same for jessie-updates |
| 08:39.53 | Centurion_Dan | oh... right we're not doing /merged for those yet... I'll add them in |
| 08:39.59 | KatolaZ | ok |
| 08:40.00 | Centurion_Dan | tomorrow. |
| 08:40.01 | KatolaZ | sorry then |
| 08:40.02 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 08:40.26 | Centurion_Dan | don't be sorry I didn't think about it when setting up the security repo... |
| 08:40.36 | KatolaZ | no problem |
| 08:40.48 | KatolaZ | I will email to you anyway |
| 08:41.06 | KatolaZ | if you think it helps |
| 08:41.32 | KatolaZ | because I didn't find a proper place where to raise the issue on our gitlab |
| 08:43.48 | *** join/#devuan fredg (~fredg@unaffiliated/fredg) |
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| 10:11.09 | Centurion_Dan | KatolaZ: I've checked and they are there... |
| 10:13.12 | Centurion_Dan | jessie-security and ascii-security are actually redirects to amprolla.d.o but that works reliably too. |
| 10:13.41 | KatolaZ | wait |
| 10:13.43 | KatolaZ | I will try again |
| 10:14.53 | KatolaZ | Centurion_Dan: newbie mistake |
| 10:15.01 | KatolaZ | I wrote nonfree instead of non-free :) |
| 10:15.19 | KatolaZ | it's that I have never used non-free in Debian/Devuan, before the pi : |
| 10:15.23 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 10:15.24 | KatolaZ | sorry |
| 10:16.24 | KatolaZ | and I should probably not use it anyway |
| 10:16.27 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 10:16.44 | Centurion_Dan | that's ok LoL... made me look though ;-) |
| 10:17.09 | Centurion_Dan | no shame in admitting a need for non-free... |
| 10:17.31 | Centurion_Dan | I'm not a fascist nor a fanboi |
| 10:17.36 | Centurion_Dan | ;-) |
| 10:18.13 | KatolaZ | I don't have a need for non-free in the pi, indeed |
| 10:18.14 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 10:19.56 | KatolaZ | except for the firmware of the wifi stick I am using there, obviously |
| 10:21.18 | KatolaZ | (and yes, admitting that I need non-free is a shame for me ;)) |
| 10:22.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | admitting you don't care would be |
| 10:22.19 | KatolaZ | DocScrutinizer05: :) |
| 10:23.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | when you need, it the shame of somebody else |
| 10:23.42 | KatolaZ | eheheheh |
| 10:23.49 | KatolaZ | vrms says: |
| 10:23.51 | KatolaZ | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:23.51 | KatolaZ | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:24.09 | KatolaZ | the two non-free are skype and iwlwifi |
| 10:24.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | Virtual R.M.Stallman? |
| 10:24.27 | KatolaZ | the two contrib are gcc-doc-base and flashplugin-nonfree |
| 10:24.28 | KatolaZ | yes |
| 10:24.30 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 10:24.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | HEHEHE |
| 10:24.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | I was just guessing |
| 10:24.49 | KatolaZ | it exists :) |
| 10:24.54 | KatolaZ | since a long time ago |
| 10:26.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | I wish something like that would exist for hardware too |
| 10:26.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | a nice percentage instead of that all-or-nothing RYF |
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| 11:34.44 | muep_ | such a tool would have hard time even finding what software is run by which piece of hardware |
| 11:49.06 | DusXMT | KatolaZ: I know it's everyone's decision, but I wouldn't recommend using flash, even if you're okay with proprietary software. It's been known to have many security holes over the time. (java applets are even (far) more dangerous) |
| 11:52.03 | DusXMT | And it's something you interface with the web, a place full of malicious companies and users |
| 12:04.51 | DusXMT | (a lot of video sites' videos can be downloaded with youtube-dl, and there's something similar for streaming sites) |
| 12:08.12 | Lieke | livestreamer is what i use for streaming |
| 12:25.02 | Vall | Anyone here using Devuan on a Thinkpad notebook? |
| 12:38.37 | parazyd | hellekin: ^ |
| 12:38.55 | parazyd | Vall: what is it btw? |
| 12:39.22 | Vall | parazyd: you don't know what a Thinkpad is? |
| 12:40.21 | parazyd | Vall: i do, i'm wondering what do you need help with |
| 12:40.35 | Defiant | Vall: ask again in 1w ;) |
| 12:40.54 | *** join/#devuan Drugo (~andrea@host33-205-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 12:40.56 | Vall | No help needed, yet. Just wanted to hear how well it is working, specially notoriously difficult things like suspend/resume |
| 12:41.04 | Vall | Defiant: you got one? |
| 12:41.31 | Defiant | Vall: on the way, should not be too different from debian anyway |
| 12:41.40 | parazyd | Vall: `echo mem > /sys/power/state` |
| 12:41.52 | parazyd | this you can do to suspend |
| 12:41.56 | Vall | parazyd: sure. but does it work? |
| 12:42.00 | parazyd | of course |
| 12:42.01 | Vall | (on a thinkpad?) |
| 12:42.01 | Defiant | or apt-get install pm-tools |
| 12:42.06 | parazyd | this works everywhere |
| 12:42.09 | Vall | LOL |
| 12:42.17 | Vall | parazyd: you must be kidding |
| 12:42.20 | Vall | Oh, OK. |
| 12:42.22 | Defiant | parazyd: depends on your hardware/driver... |
| 12:42.31 | Vall | "works", for some definition of "work", sure. |
| 12:42.42 | Vall | But my question is, does it work *well*? |
| 12:43.01 | Vall | suspend/resume is a bitch, in my experience. |
| 12:43.20 | Defiant | it can be |
| 12:43.22 | parazyd | Vall: i've been using this for years... just call it on a lid event with acpi |
| 12:43.39 | parazyd | s/lid/lid close/ |
| 12:44.02 | Vall | I'm currently running EL6 (Springdale), which is super-stable, supported and all... and one in each 10 suspend/resumes locks up everything and force me to power-cycle the machine |
| 12:45.04 | Vall | And more ofter (1 in 5, I'd say) it simply can't suspend because some driver (usually xhci_hcd, but sometimes i915) returns an error on suspend. |
| 12:46.06 | Vall | When it's xhci_hcd, I can usually rmmod it and then suspend successfully. But when it's i915, oh my... it's used by drm, which is used by X, and to shutdown X and bring everything back up it's usually easier and faster to reboot, anyway :-( |
| 12:46.38 | Vall | So, to rephrase my question: how well is Devuan (or Debian Jesse) working with Thinkpads? |
| 12:47.16 | Defiant | Vall: With my Debian old my 5 years old thinkpad: No problem |
| 12:47.30 | Vall | Defiant: which model? |
| 12:48.00 | Defiant | Vall: T420 (Sandy Bridge) I always s2ram, I usually do not shutdown |
| 12:48.17 | Vall | nice! |
| 12:48.21 | Vall | I always S2RAM. |
| 12:48.36 | Vall | Hybernate not working on EL6 on this machine, BTW... :-/ |
| 12:48.46 | Defiant | But that doesn't mean that it works for a recent model, I just hope so |
| 12:48.49 | Vall | And with 32GB RAM it would take forever anyway. |
| 12:49.08 | Vall | My model is a W520, which I understand is the same "series" as the T420. |
| 12:49.22 | Defiant | it is, different case |
| 12:49.30 | Vall | Same Intel chipset, anyway, and probably most of the devices are the same. |
| 12:49.59 | Defiant | Vall: I use pm-tools to suspend |
| 12:50.43 | Vall | BTW, I love my W520, and love Thinkpads in general... my 1st notebook (back in 1995) was a Thinkpad, and after a brief foray with Toshibas, I've returned to the fold and been purchasing and using Thinkpads ever since ;-) |
| 12:50.59 | Vall | Defiant: how frequently do you S2RAM? |
| 12:51.29 | Defiant | Vall: minimum twice a day |
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| 12:59.00 | Vall | Defiant: very nice! |
| 12:59.28 | Vall | Defiant: and it never locks up / misbehaves, ie, it always suspends, and always resumes back from suspend? |
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| 13:01.08 | nextime | o/ |
| 13:02.10 | Defiant | Vall: Usually it works, there were a few kernel problems on the road that made it lock up on resume |
| 13:02.35 | Vall | OK, so it doesn't lock up anymore, with your current kernel? |
| 13:04.02 | Defiant | yes |
| 13:04.17 | Defiant | (now after I said that it will probably punch me in the face the next days) |
| 13:11.36 | Drugo | Hello, i just installed the beta cd iso on a VM. Trying to install gnome and cinnamon, results (as expected to avoid systemd), in not met dependancies, however, those options was present in tasksel. If selected in tasksel, would it work or not? |
| 13:17.19 | Vall | Defiant: LOL ;-) Mind if I ask exactly (uname -a) what kernel are you running now,? |
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| 13:21.14 | nextime | drugo: please report any issue or missing dependency on git.devuan.org or https://talk.devuan.org/t/devuan-1-0-jessie-first-impressions/46 |
| 13:22.34 | nextime | Drugo: to check for already open issues: https://git.devuan.org/devuan/devuan-project/issues/?milestone=release-1-0-jessie |
| 13:22.46 | nextime | for new issues: https://git.devuan.org/devuan/devuan-project/issues/new?milestone=release-1-0-jessie |
| 13:22.58 | Drugo | ok, thanks |
| 13:23.23 | Defiant | Vall: its not with me atm, back in 4h, the currentl kernel of debian testing |
| 13:23.42 | Vall | OK Defiant, thanks for the info. |
| 13:23.59 | Vall | I'm considering whether to reinstall my notebook with Devuan |
| 13:24.05 | Vall | or Debian, for that matter. |
| 13:24.16 | KatolaZ | DusXMT: I know flash is not secure and non-free, but I have to use it anyway |
| 13:24.35 | KatolaZ | otherwise I would have removed it ages ago :) |
| 13:24.59 | Vall | Had had very good luck running Mint 13 on another machine, but Mint 17 already has the first stains of systemd in it (even if it's not a full systemd implementation, AFAIK) |
| 13:25.36 | Vall | How does Devuan (or Debian Jesse) compares with Mint 17 for notebook/desktop use? |
| 13:29.17 | nextime | Vall: devuan is not comparable to anything else. Devuan is the way. :D |
| 13:29.36 | Vall | nextime: I believe so ;-) |
| 13:29.38 | DusXMT | Vall: Well, it has fvwm, so I'm happy :) |
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| 13:30.35 | Vall | DusXMT: I used FVWM extensively from 1995 until 2013 or so, when I installed EL6 on my new notebook, and the FVWM RPM sucked... running GNOME2 ever since |
| 13:31.12 | Vall | DusXMT: how well is FVWM running with the plethora of GNOME programs we unfortunately have to use (Hugin, GIMP, etc)? |
| 13:31.58 | nextime | is using openbox from ages |
| 13:32.44 | DusXMT | Vall: Dunno, fine? I've only been using it for about a year |
| 13:32.44 | Defiant | fluxbox |
| 13:33.39 | Vall | fluxbox is an incognita for me. I've used it once many years ago, in a friend's computer, and really liked it. And I remember, to my great amazement, that it consumed even less RAM than FVWM |
| 13:33.57 | Vall | nextime: never heard of openbox. |
| 13:34.54 | Vall | brb, breakfast time here |
| 13:36.46 | DusXMT | Vall: I run GIMP in the single-window mode, and it just works like I'd expect |
| 13:37.13 | Vall | DusXMT: what is "single-window mode" in GIMP? |
| 13:37.47 | DusXMT | Vall: When the different panels aren't on independent windows, makes it less cluttered imho |
| 13:37.58 | Vall | ah |
| 13:38.06 | Vall | I always run it in different windows. |
| 13:38.25 | Vall | Any issues with it in different windows, or do you use single-window mode just to avoid the cluttering? |
| 13:39.27 | DusXMT | Vall: Well, I don't have a huge screen (1440x900 is the native resolution), and the single-window mode makes it easier to manage everything on the screen. I'd imagine the multi-window mode to be more practical on larger screens |
| 13:40.08 | DusXMT | It's just less of a hassle for me, I guess =3 |
| 13:41.20 | DusXMT | This is all just personal preference though, I'm sure the multi-window mode has many advantages which I'm not aware of |
| 13:43.52 | fsmithred | Vall, I have devuan running on an old dell laptop, and everything seems to be working. |
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| 13:48.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | nextime!!! :-) Hi! |
| 13:52.34 | Leander256 | I've never seen anyone argue in favor of gimp's multi-window mode |
| 13:56.16 | minnesotags | Hello Developer folks. |
| 13:56.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | Leander256: indeed |
| 13:57.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | yet some other programs offer same mode as option |
| 13:58.09 | minnesotags | Dan built a new OpenStack image, it is in the ci.devuan.org, but it is in .deb format and my skillz are not sufficient to extract it to a qcow2 or something usable? |
| 13:59.25 | minnesotags | I ran dpkg -x on it and got a binary image.... |
| 14:00.47 | Vall | back |
| 14:05.50 | *** join/#devuan premoboss (~utente@62.212.13.223) |
| 14:08.56 | MinceR | gimp's multi-window mode is quite usable with a sane window manager |
| 14:09.40 | ksx4system | MinceR: Openbox is much more than sane and it's useless on small screen (one has to rape alt+tab) |
| 14:10.15 | ksx4system | I can't use gimp in other mode than single window, needs raping alt+tab on KDE too |
| 14:12.37 | Vall | MinceR: what would be a "sane window manager", in your experience? |
| 14:13.59 | parazyd | dwm |
| 14:14.53 | Vall | parazyd: you use dwm? |
| 14:14.57 | parazyd | yes |
| 14:16.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL! stale link: lrwxrwxrwx 1 jr users 29 Jun 6 2015 /home/jr/.local/share/systemd/user -> ../../../.config/systemd/user |
| 14:16.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | not on Devuan ;-) |
| 14:22.26 | ksx4system | parazyd: dwm isn't even close to sane :P |
| 14:22.36 | nextime | ciao DocScrutinizer05 |
| 14:22.48 | DusXMT | wonders what's "sane" |
| 14:23.07 | DusXMT | guesses "non-Gnome3" =3 |
| 14:23.11 | golinux | fsmithred: Check your msg window |
| 14:23.15 | *** join/#devuan FrozenWes (~FrozenWes@unaffiliated/frozenwes) |
| 14:25.27 | ksx4system | DusXMT: that's for sure :D |
| 14:25.39 | parazyd | ksx4system: lol, why? |
| 14:25.50 | parazyd | it's the best |
| 14:26.19 | ksx4system | it's tiling |
| 14:26.23 | DusXMT | But to be perfectly honest, I don't even really know how Gnome 3 looks like, I just know that GTK3 prograams look ugly |
| 14:26.28 | ksx4system | so it's broken by design lol |
| 14:26.31 | premoboss | hi guys, jut seen devuan gone beta! i dowload by torrent now! |
| 14:26.49 | ksx4system | premoboss: don't forget to seed afterwards :) |
| 14:26.54 | premoboss | yep |
| 14:27.11 | premoboss | i not get whope 10GB, onlu CD 386 |
| 14:27.12 | DusXMT | and that I'm not willing to give it the CPU and GPU time that other processes would be able to use much more usefully =3 |
| 14:29.04 | premoboss | what DE are available? i am used with LXDE |
| 14:29.35 | ksx4system | premoboss: it is available afaik |
| 14:29.39 | premoboss | ok |
| 14:30.06 | DusXMT | premoboss: I've used XFCE and Mate on Devuan, both seemed to work okay |
| 14:30.36 | premoboss | i see there are .img for some ARM board (cubieboard2, raspberry, etc) i suppose is enough to reverse them onto a uSD using dd, right? |
| 14:31.11 | premoboss | DusXMT, mate is too much "fashion" for me, and "xfce" dont match my feeling... lxde is my preferred. |
| 14:31.56 | ksx4system | premoboss: have you tried Openbox with tint2? |
| 14:32.09 | premoboss | never |
| 14:32.16 | premoboss | tint2? what it is? |
| 14:32.23 | DusXMT | premoboss: a panel |
| 14:32.31 | premoboss | mm never used. |
| 14:32.37 | ksx4system | a great, uber configurable panel :D |
| 14:32.52 | premoboss | do you have a video link i can see? |
| 14:34.19 | ksx4system | there should be several on YT ("openbox tint2" keyword) |
| 14:34.36 | ksx4system | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ztb60t8VPdU example |
| 14:34.55 | ksx4system | (but it's not as nice as my setup) |
| 14:35.21 | ksx4system | https://ksx4system.net/temp/luna-screeny/ some screenshots |
| 14:35.43 | parazyd | > leaving empty space on your screen |
| 14:35.51 | premoboss | ok |
| 14:35.58 | parazyd | just, no |
| 14:36.30 | ksx4system | parazyd: not being able to put one window on top of another - no, just no XD |
| 14:36.43 | parazyd | premoboss: for ARM images, you just extract them from xz and dd. yes |
| 14:36.49 | parazyd | ksx4system: it's called monocle mode |
| 14:36.57 | parazyd | also, tags |
| 14:37.01 | premoboss | parazyd, good. |
| 14:37.11 | parazyd | you can have more than one tag selected, you know? |
| 14:37.11 | FrozenWes | huh, never even knew there's a version of hexchat for *nix |
| 14:38.18 | premoboss | saw the video. seems light on cpu. |
| 14:39.15 | premoboss | is the linux version the same on all platform? arm, intel, etc? |
| 14:39.19 | *** join/#devuan furrywolf (~randyg@107.25.136.1) |
| 14:39.55 | DusXMT | premoboss: Everything is the same; it's the same system, compiled by a differently configured compiler |
| 14:40.09 | premoboss | ok. and linux version is? |
| 14:41.32 | DusXMT | uname -r reports 3.16.0-4-686-pae (though the kernel version is pretty much irrelevant to your everyday joe; sure, it's important when considering what hardware features are available, but it usually doesn't make a difference in the userspace) |
| 14:41.55 | parazyd | premoboss: in all the arm images there are different kernel version |
| 14:42.03 | parazyd | depending on what the specific device wants |
| 14:42.16 | *** join/#devuan FrozenWes (~FrozenWes@unaffiliated/frozenwes) |
| 14:42.31 | premoboss | at least, all kernels version belongs to 4.x? |
| 14:43.09 | DusXMT | premoboss: Jessie seems to have 3.x, at least on x86 (legacy PCs) |
| 14:43.10 | premoboss | on cubieboard2 i am stuck with 3.4.xx and i would like to have a more recent kernel version. |
| 14:43.14 | MinceR | ksx4system: i'm pretty sure you can use a panel and 'send to lower' even with openbox :> |
| 14:43.21 | MinceR | Vall: a properly configured fvwm, for example |
| 14:43.54 | premoboss | for x86 i dont care, istead on arm i would like 4.x.x. but is good also a 3.16.x |
| 14:44.18 | Vall | MinceR: I really ought to try FVWM again |
| 14:44.40 | MinceR | i'm planning to do so myself |
| 14:45.08 | parazyd | premoboss: as said, the devices like the versions i use |
| 14:45.31 | parazyd | you are not missing anything really if you're wondering about having a newer version |
| 14:46.06 | premoboss | parazyd, are you running a arm board? if yes, wath kernel is on? |
| 14:46.10 | parazyd | premoboss: fell free to look into arm-sdk (https://git.devuan.org/devuan/arm-sdk) and configure your own kernel though |
| 14:47.17 | parazyd | premoboss: 4.4.8 |
| 14:47.20 | parazyd | but i use gentoo |
| 14:47.23 | DusXMT | runs NetBSD 7.0 on his only arm board =3 (the raspberry pi) I know, not a real answer, but I think the kernel versions aren't as important as some people believe |
| 14:47.36 | parazyd | DusXMT: +1 |
| 14:48.28 | premoboss | as far as i know, in 4.4.x there is possibility to configure usb gadged adn play usp port to emulate a ethernet port... it itis possible anso with 3.16 kernel vrsion, for me is ok. |
| 14:48.43 | DusXMT | Hell, I haven't noticed a difference since 2.6, except for better hardware support |
| 14:50.17 | premoboss | DusXMT, i am interested in freebsd on ARM, my board is cubieboard2, but till few months ago support was far to be optimal.. is freebsd on raspi2 stable enough? if yes, i can do sacrifice to get a raspi2 |
| 14:51.11 | DusXMT | Dunno about FreeBSD, don't use that system, but NetBSD seems to be working okay; it's an officially supported platform since the 7.0 release |
| 14:52.19 | parazyd | freebsd is stable everywhere |
| 14:52.36 | premoboss | ops, i read NETBSD but understood FREEBSD, sorry. also netbsd is ok to me |
| 14:53.49 | DusXMT | considers the BSDs a nice way to get a mature, time-tested systemd-less system nowadays =3 I hope Devuan will be joining that category one day as well |
| 14:54.29 | furrywolf | without systemd, we could make a *bsd devuan port. :) |
| 14:55.29 | premoboss | debian 6 ad 7 used kfreebsd as kernel but it was discontinued. |
| 14:56.03 | FrozenWes | I never saw the point of that, the BSDs have a perfectly fine userland, no need to port the linux one |
| 14:56.20 | FrozenWes | better focus on making linux great and keeping crap like systemd out |
| 14:57.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | still lots of free bandwidth on http://devuan-temporary-mirror.almesberger.net |
| 14:57.36 | DusXMT | FrozenWes: Indeed |
| 14:57.49 | FrozenWes | I saw the other day that Linus Torvalds said on a mailinglist he thinks the systemd binary logging is crap. Nice to hear, but would've been useful if he'd said that twee years ago, instead of allowing systemd to become the de facto standard init system and complaining afterwards. -_- |
| 14:58.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | the problem with Torvalds is: he doesn't care at all about 2userland" |
| 14:58.31 | furrywolf | I think he did say that three years ago. and about three hundred other ways systemd is crap. :) |
| 14:58.52 | furrywolf | using a fair number of impolite terms, too. |
| 14:59.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | or the other way around: userland devels don't care about Torvalds |
| 14:59.30 | Vall | DocScrutinizer05: IMHO, the problem with Torvalds is that it has been quite a few years since he seriously cared about *anything*, at least stability related. |
| 14:59.34 | FrozenWes | well appearently it wasn't enough, otherwise there wouldn't have been a need for a debian-fork -_- |
| 14:59.48 | furrywolf | you think the systemd people care? |
| 15:00.22 | Vall | The way the kernel has been managed since the 2.6 series is in my opinion, appalling :-/ |
| 15:00.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | the systemd cabal would rather retire Linus, than listen to what he says |
| 15:00.55 | Vall | The systemd cabal can go to hell for all I care. |
| 15:01.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | ack |
| 15:01.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~systemd |
| 15:01.15 | Vall | The problem is that their kind of attitude is contaminating everything in Open Source. |
| 15:01.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang |
| 15:01.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | !systemd |
| 15:01.21 | infobot | [systemd] cancer |
| 15:01.26 | Vall | Even the Linux kernel :-/ |
| 15:01.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | !_default systemd |
| 15:01.40 | infobot | systemd cabal: a bunch of people (Lennart Poettering, Kay Sievers, H. Hoyer, D. Mack, T. Gundersen, D. Herrmann) who want to turn linux into their wet dream perverted version of windows-me-too: http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html -- Rumor has it that 2016 systemd will have replaced kernel. See ~nosystemd" |
| 15:01.41 | Wizzup | Would it not make sense to leave the actual hate out of here? |
| 15:02.18 | furrywolf | !#devuan forget systemd |
| 15:02.29 | furrywolf | hrmm, don't remember my infobot |
| 15:02.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | !forget #devuan systemd |
| 15:02.42 | infobot | i forgot #devuan systemd, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 15:02.52 | furrywolf | !systemd |
| 15:02.52 | infobot | systemd cabal: a bunch of people (Lennart Poettering, Kay Sievers, H. Hoyer, D. Mack, T. Gundersen, D. Herrmann) who want to turn linux into their wet dream perverted version of windows-me-too: http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html -- Rumor has it that 2016 systemd will have replaced kernel. See ~nosystemd" |
| 15:02.55 | furrywolf | much better. |
| 15:03.02 | FrozenWes | indeed |
| 15:03.18 | furrywolf | was playing with the bot, and thought it didn't work... but apparantly it did |
| 15:03.28 | premoboss | I run a little ARM board, ARIETTA (www.acmesystems.it/arietta) it is ARMv4, i wonder if i can port devuan on it. |
| 15:04.05 | furrywolf | is debian going to drop non-systemd-friendly ports? |
| 15:04.36 | *** join/#devuan Ryushin (~Ryushin@65.114.195.184) |
| 15:04.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | drop? |
| 15:05.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | premoboss: should work, I guess |
| 15:05.32 | furrywolf | drop... stop maintaining, releasing new versions of, etc. |
| 15:05.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, aiui debian devels will happily support systemd |
| 15:06.29 | DusXMT | furrywolf: From what I know, the Hurd project was several times proposed to be removed from the master FTP mirrors and moved to debian-ports, but it's yet to happen... Though the people in #hurd don't seem too concerned with it |
| 15:07.08 | DusXMT | s|Hurd project|Debian GNU/Hurd project| |
| 15:07.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I dunno if there's a package that's not created by poettering, incompatible to systemd, and hasn't been adapted yet - except sysvinit |
| 15:07.23 | Vall | DusXMT: is there a viable HURD? The last I saw, it was in semi-abandon status |
| 15:07.32 | furrywolf | so they're going to maintain systemd-free arm etc ports? or does systemd now "work" on all of them? |
| 15:08.26 | furrywolf | "229-5: alpha amd64 arm64 armel armhf hppa i386 m68k mips mips64el mipsel powerpc ppc64 ppc64el s390x x32" ah, there's the answer to that. the version in unstable is for everything... |
| 15:08.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | good question |
| 15:10.15 | DusXMT | Vall: Nah, the Hurd's not abandoned - a group of developers (eg. Justus Winder and Richard Braun) are working on it in their free time (currently reworking the memory management and locks), there's been a new kernel synchronization mecanism implemented (gsync) to improve performance of threaded programs, locking bugs are being discovered and fixed in the kernel, and they have a couple of GSoC students, one |
| 15:10.21 | DusXMT | of whom (phant0mas) is working on making a GuixSD running on the Hurd |
| 15:10.40 | furrywolf | I'd love to see a usable microkernel system. |
| 15:10.47 | DusXMT | It's just going slowly, since there's like 3-5 developers working on it |
| 15:11.03 | Vall | GuixSD? |
| 15:11.11 | DusXMT | Vall: The Hurd |
| 15:11.27 | DusXMT | GNU's Unix Kernel replacement (which isn't a kernel) |
| 15:12.39 | DusXMT | Vall: And GuixSD is the distribution based on Guix, GNU's shiny new scheme-based reproducible package manager |
| 15:13.07 | DusXMT | (which also uses its own init system, GNU Shepherd (aka dmd), which is also scheme-based) |
| 15:14.01 | DusXMT | (So I guess you could say that pahnt0mas is working on creating the true "The GNU Operating System" =3 ... although I still prefer the BSDs) |
| 15:15.42 | Wizzup | furrywolf: there is also minix |
| 15:15.59 | ksx4system | Vall: http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-in-short-just-say-no-to-drugs-and-maybe-you-won-t-end-up-like-the-hurd-people-linus-torvalds-273532.jpg |
| 15:16.52 | ksx4system | Torvalds concluded it perfectly :D |
| 15:17.23 | DusXMT | ksx4system: The Hurd's main problem isn't its design, but the lack of developers |
| 15:17.58 | ksx4system | that's another story |
| 15:18.50 | DusXMT | One problem I have with GNU programs in general is that they're usually bulky and slow. Emacs, Guix, Bash, ... |
| 15:19.18 | DusXMT | gcc as well (compared to LLVM/clang) |
| 15:20.04 | Leander256 | people often complain about gcc being slow, but until recently it still compiled programs tat would run faster |
| 15:20.43 | DusXMT | Leander256: and it even supports more target architectures. Every coin has two sides |
| 15:20.50 | Vall | Emacs definitely sucks (when compared to vin, and IMHO) |
| 15:21.01 | Vall | but GCC and bash are OK in my book |
| 15:21.12 | furrywolf | I have not found an editor I like. |
| 15:21.19 | furrywolf | so I end up using nano. |
| 15:21.25 | Leander256 | yes, even though I've been using Gentoo a lot, I'm fine with the compiling being slower if that can provide better binaries |
| 15:21.26 | crouse | <facepalm> |
| 15:21.36 | Vall | furrywolf: so when are you going to write your own? |
| 15:21.39 | Vall | ;) |
| 15:22.08 | DusXMT | ended up sticking with Vi, since knowing how to use it well means knowing how to edit on any possible UNIX system without a hassle :) |
| 15:22.11 | furrywolf | I've written two, one for DOS many ages ago, and one in Java, for Java, back when Java was new and shiny and before I realized it was total garbage... |
| 15:22.11 | Vall | Curious about GuiX |
| 15:22.40 | Vall | I think Java originally was a good thing, but it got badly derailed... |
| 15:22.46 | furrywolf | the DOS one was for graphical editing of ANSI graphics for BBSes... so that might tell you just how long ago. :) |
| 15:22.52 | DusXMT | Vall: It is pretty interesting, https://gnu.org/software/guix/ |
| 15:23.06 | Vall | DusXMT: having a look at it right now |
| 15:23.32 | furrywolf | completely random offtopic question since I'm in here... can you create printer name aliases for cups? |
| 15:24.57 | FrozenWes | Java was decent enough until Oracle bought Sun, after that it's been going downhill fast |
| 15:25.13 | FrozenWes | I pretty much consider the JRE insecure these days |
| 15:25.19 | Vall | DusXMT: by the name, I thought it was something related to GUI (ie, a desktop manager, or something like it) |
| 15:26.32 | DusXMT | Vall: Nope. From what I remember, it's just a mash-up of GNU and Nix, since it's based off of Nix (but significantly different, eg. the Nix language was completely replaced by scheme) |
| 15:27.31 | DusXMT | actually, Guile and Nix |
| 15:28.09 | DusXMT | since Guile is the scheme interpreter they use (lead by the same lead maintainer, Ludovic Cortez I think?) |
| 15:28.26 | Leander256 | my first experience with java was a browser (IE I think) trying to load an applet on an pentium with a mighty 8GB of ram or so, and bringing the machine down its knees for 5 minutes |
| 15:29.53 | Leander256 | I started hating it very early :) |
| 15:30.28 | FrozenWes | java applets were very often misused |
| 15:30.46 | FrozenWes | they were intended to run software in a browser, but used for silly things like buttons and such, resulting in stupidly long load times |
| 15:33.30 | muep_ | and nowadays the borwser is usually the thing that is used to run software in a browser |
| 15:34.48 | *** join/#devuan zocker (~zocker@2a02:418:6a04:178:209:51:134:55a0) |
| 15:34.50 | muep_ | and in many cases this still brings well-equipped PCs to their knees |
| 15:35.28 | *** join/#devuan Lancien (~lautiste@abo-126-133-68.bdx.modulonet.fr) |
| 15:35.55 | FrozenWes | ya, webdev is a complete mess |
| 15:39.20 | DusXMT | what especially makes me shake my head "no" is game development in the browser... I've spent many hours arguing with some people over it |
| 15:39.51 | muep_ | if you mean development of games intended to be run in the browser, why not? |
| 15:40.09 | muep_ | not all sorts of games, but I think it could work for quite a lot |
| 15:40.45 | FrozenWes | there was a shortlived craze a few years ago with games in the browser when it really was just the menu in the browser, but that died off quickly |
| 15:41.00 | FrozenWes | Quake Live moved to steam, Battlefield Heroes was shut down |
| 15:41.27 | DusXMT | For really simple games it could be okay, but for full-fledged ones, it's just a crazy load on the CPU that no one who respects the CPUs would do. |
| 15:42.18 | muep_ | I think it would be pretty simple to program it so that it does not hog CPU when the tab is not visible |
| 15:42.41 | FrozenWes | it's not like games have resources to spare anyway, though most are GPU-bound, not CPU-bound |
| 15:43.37 | muep_ | many browsers make basically at least OpenGL ES 2.0 available. though it is not necessarily a good idea security-wise |
| 15:43.39 | DusXMT | FrozenWes: But when you have a complex physics engine, suddenly even the CPU becomes important, especially on a platform where each line of code has to be parsed as text |
| 15:43.55 | FrozenWes | heh yeah true |
| 15:44.10 | muep_ | on most platforms, the source code is parsed from text at some point |
| 15:44.43 | muep_ | for browser scripts, it is usually at least once per page load, but I'd assume that a game would not involve reloading the page all the time |
| 15:53.56 | minnesotags | HUGE AMOUNTS OF OFF TOPIC!!!! Seriously folks, this is what #debianfork is for. |
| 15:55.54 | furrywolf | I don't mind offtopic as long as it's not interrupting ontopic things. |
| 15:56.40 | muep_ | perhaps it is disrupting if someone tries to keep on top of the on-topic stuff and checks the channel in vain. apologies |
| 15:57.20 | DusXMT | Indeed. I'd like to apologize as well |
| 15:58.10 | FrozenWes | doesn't care what random wannabe-ops think |
| 15:58.44 | FrozenWes | try politely asking next time |
| 15:58.55 | furrywolf | amen :) |
| 15:59.57 | Lieke | FrozenWes: you could also read what the topic says |
| 16:00.50 | FrozenWes | w/e, I'll come back when the whiners are gone |
| 16:00.51 | *** part/#devuan FrozenWes (~FrozenWes@unaffiliated/frozenwes) |
| 16:01.46 | furrywolf | yay, we chased off someone who seemed useful. that's an excellent way to build a good channel membership. |
| 16:02.37 | *** join/#devuan mns` (~mns@177.13.50.194) |
| 16:04.19 | golinux | Offtopic here makes find ontopic stuff hard to find in the scrollback. |
| 16:04.31 | *** join/#devuan lantw44 (~Ting-Wei_@linux5.csie.ntu.edu.tw) |
| 16:04.45 | golinux | Think needle/haystack . . . |
| 16:04.51 | minnesotags | What golinux said. |
| 16:05.31 | minnesotags | We just released beta. There are lots of issues. |
| 16:06.11 | minnesotags | I apologize if that was harsh, I should have included a :-D and a ;-) |
| 16:06.56 | minnesotags | #debianfork is a great place for all that somewhat related stuff. |
| 16:08.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 16:08.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's not easy to find balance between on-topic and social in a chan, but it always is legit to call for on-topic anytime |
| 16:08.48 | minnesotags | So, there is an openstack image build that just got built on the jenkins. Has anyone had a chance to create an image yet? The official one doesn't work. |
| 16:12.24 | minnesotags | I just used the Debian Jessie image changed the sources, and ran apt-get update && apt-get install devuan-keyring and then apt-get dist-upgrade, removed systemd (and what depended on it) and removed and reinstalled rsyslog. I could create a snapshot of that qcow2(I think?) and set it somewhere for upload. |
| 16:12.48 | minnesotags | I know that is a hack, but.... |
| 16:15.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((torrents)) just upped 3.2MB/s to one leecher, so the throttling is definitely not on BW on my end |
| 16:16.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | weird stuff, this bittorrent |
| 16:19.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's just my local ktorrent behind 2 NATs on a 1Mbit uplink servers 10 times the bandwidth than my server with static IP on a 1Gb uplink does |
| 16:21.50 | minnesotags | Hmm. |
| 16:22.24 | minnesotags | So I did that test yesterday, what do you think? Your end? |
| 16:22.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | NFC |
| 16:22.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | see 3.2MB/s |
| 16:24.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | not exactly a Gigabit link but still way better than the usual 10kB/s [SIC!] it ups |
| 16:24.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | feels like other torrents don't like rtorrent or my IP |
| 16:26.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | not having the faintest clue about bittorrent at large doesn't help |
| 16:27.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway I can tell 2 of the 3 Trackers in the devuan.torrent are dead for me |
| 16:29.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2016/05/01/plasma-desktopSs2219.png http://wstaw.org/m/2016/05/01/plasma-desktopmY2219.png |
| 16:34.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | missing rDNS? |
| 16:43.13 | minnesotags | DocScrutinizer05: Just downloaded off the Devuan mirror: 4.36G 35.4MB/s in 2m 2s 2016-05-01 11:42:03 (36.7 MB/s) |
| 16:43.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | the almesberger? |
| 16:43.46 | minnesotags | That was the Devuan DVD. |
| 16:44.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | which mirror? |
| 16:44.23 | minnesotags | wget https://files.devuan.org/devuan_jessie_beta/devuan_jessie_1.0.0-beta_amd64_DVD.iso |
| 16:44.45 | minnesotags | So I guess off the files.devuan.org server |
| 16:44.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's genuine, no mirror, no? |
| 16:44.58 | minnesotags | Right |
| 16:45.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, got around same or better when I downloaded same wget to server |
| 16:46.42 | Defiant | Vall: 4.5 |
| 16:46.51 | minnesotags | Is your upload speed throttled? |
| 16:47.04 | Vall | Defiant: the kernel version on your Thinkpad Devuan install? |
| 16:47.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:47.42 | Defiant | Vall: debian currently (sysvinit still works) |
| 16:48.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | minnesotags: see 3.2MB/s upload to one peer, for a minute or two |
| 16:48.03 | Vall | Thanks pal. |
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| 16:59.50 | loganaden | hoi |
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| 17:04.18 | minnesotags | When I used your mirror, it was about 4.5MB/sec if I recall. |
| 17:05.33 | minnesotags | Sorry, 6.28MB/s for the DVD.iso |
| 17:06.25 | comradekingu | i have shared 15 GB of the CD |
| 17:09.41 | minnesotags | Okay folks, I know this sounds like a dumb question, but for the last year, all I have done is install Devuan. I haven't installed and upgraded any Debian Jessie installations to Devuan Jessie. I'm trying to make sure that as many Debian and systemd references as possible are removed. What is the best way to check? |
| 17:10.27 | minnesotags | I can imagine systemd fanbois will have a heydey taking that one out of context. Oh well! |
| 17:10.58 | ksx4system | minnesotags: dpkg -l | grep systemd on your favourite shell ;) |
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| 17:18.43 | minnesotags | apt-get purge is your friend.... |
| 17:20.05 | DusXMT | "aptitude purge '~c'" is also useful (purge all deleted but not purged packages) |
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| 18:11.51 | ecbrown | congratulations on your exodus, the last day of passover. let my people go |
| 18:17.35 | ecbrown | fyi https://devuan.org/os/download/ is broken, 404 |
| 18:19.23 | *** join/#devuan n4dir (~user@217.239.15.63) |
| 18:19.43 | fsmithred | I think they've been toasting marshmallows over the server. |
| 18:20.04 | fsmithred | hi n4dir |
| 18:27.49 | KatolaZ | ecbrown: it works perfectly over here |
| 18:27.51 | KatolaZ | no 404 |
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| 18:35.19 | ecbrown | i select only ssh server and standard utilities and i get an installer error.... hmmmmmm. |
| 18:38.59 | DusXMT | ecbrown: Try again, retry the option |
| 18:39.17 | DusXMT | Happened to me as well with netinst, worked after I tried the option again |
| 18:39.31 | ecbrown | yeah, NETINST |
| 18:39.52 | DusXMT | (I'm typing off of the installed system =3) |
| 18:40.05 | ecbrown | i wonder if it's not downloading correctly from a bogged down server, or something |
| 18:40.20 | DusXMT | could you check the log on CTRL+F4 |
| 18:40.21 | DusXMT | ? |
| 18:40.23 | ecbrown | seems to be pretty fast downloads, though |
| 18:40.45 | ecbrown | DusXMT: too late |
| 18:40.56 | DusXMT | nods, did the same mistake |
| 18:42.14 | ecbrown | although I'm glad devuan has purged systemd, the next thing i would like to see if for devuan to patch things up with the FSF over the GFDL |
| 18:48.50 | n4dir | hi fsmithred. |
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| 18:56.00 | ecbrown | great, up and running. seems like a nice, boring debian. very predictable. :-D |
| 18:57.05 | DusXMT | ecbrown: the way it should be :) After all, it _is_ the universal operating system (or at least Debian used to be) |
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| 19:15.07 | curvv | hi debdog :) |
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| 19:43.28 | nextime | tonight will be a night of huge performances improvement for amprolla |
| 19:49.29 | nextime | ecbrown: https://devuan.org/os/download/ fixed, thanks |
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| 19:54.11 | ecbrown | yw, and thanks |
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| 20:00.56 | minnesotags | jaromil: In the devuan cloud image, the /etc/cloud/cloud.conf file references debian user, debian packages, etc.. Therefore it installs the ssh keys towards that user. |
| 20:01.17 | minnesotags | that could also go to nextime |
| 20:04.31 | nextime | minnesotags: i'm not directly involved towards cloud images |
| 20:04.51 | nextime | i'm one of the huys that thinks that "cloud is only another people computer" :P |
| 20:05.03 | nextime | s/huys/guys |
| 20:05.55 | nextime | ( minnesotags : please, open an issue for that so jaromil can see it when it come online ) |
| 20:06.04 | minnesotags | Ok. |
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| 20:06.49 | nextime | thanks |
| 20:06.56 | minnesotags | nextime: since it is also my own OpenStack (running on Devuan, btw) it is ALL my computers! ;-) |
| 20:07.43 | nextime | minnesotags: make sense :) ( i'm a ganeti user, my devuan vps are installed by a script that just use debootstrap ) :P |
| 20:12.38 | minnesotags | We just got this up and going. It isn't easy. Setting up the ceph storage was INCREDIBLY easy, but the OpenStack is INCREDIBLY complex. But now that it is going, it is just sweet. |
| 20:14.18 | *** join/#devuan n4dir (~user@pD9EF0F3F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:16.22 | nextime | minnesotags: well, i'm not exactly an openstack fan, but i must say that one of the (undisclosed anonymous yes) VUAs is a very well respected and known guy involved heavily in openstack, so, you can expect great support for it in devuan |
| 20:16.37 | nextime | s/yes/yet |
| 20:18.57 | minnesotags | nextime: I actually already had an issue in the vm:sdk which is jaromil project. I added a comment to that existing issue. |
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| 22:02.09 | ksx4system | !mirrors |
| 22:02.09 | infobot | [mirrors] https://devuan.voyanet.org/ http://devuan.lucylaika.ovh http://neo900_devuanfiles.dev-1.org (eventually, until then:) http://devuan-temporary-mirror.almesberger.net |
| 22:02.22 | ksx4system | !mirrors help |
| 22:02.31 | ksx4system | meh |
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