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| 01:29.45 | Inocuous | recommendations on a replacement for thunar file explorer? |
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| 02:39.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | ksx4system: congrats, taurus! |
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| 02:58.08 | Inocuous | How do I make my installation of Devuan as secure as possible? is there firewall, or a utility to easily setup iptables? |
| 03:13.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | ksx4system: I'm two days late |
| 03:16.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, I wonder if opensuse-firewall2 would work on any system with iptables/netfilter |
| 03:17.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>SuSEfirewall2 is basically a script that generates iptables rules from configuration stored in the /etc/sysconfig/SuSEfirewall2 file.<< |
| 03:19.42 | Inocuous | c |
| 03:19.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | mot that i'd think it's particularly good or anything, it's simply just the only one I know |
| 03:19.56 | Inocuous | Thanks for the reply. I missed it. |
| 03:19.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | not* |
| 03:20.28 | Inocuous | I get mixed feedback some people say I don't need anything. I don't know. |
| 03:21.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | well |
| 03:22.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | a) there are definitely better firewalls out there, than this entry level suse-fw2. b) I get same mixed feedback and I have no notion |
| 03:24.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think the more nasty software like systemd or PolypAudio or dbus you're running on your system, the more you'll need a sane firewall catching up the BS those softwares may do without you even noticing |
| 03:29.43 | Inocuous | so is this already installed an working in a new installation? |
| 03:32.52 | debdog | no, the opensuse-firewall is not available as a devuan package |
| 03:34.02 | debdog | there is, however, firewalld. not that I've ever used it, thoug |
| 03:34.36 | debdog | http://www.firewalld.org/ |
| 03:34.53 | debdog | but non of them is installed/enabled by default |
| 03:36.04 | Inocuous | thanks debdog |
| 03:37.01 | Inocuous | I'm so used to windows. |
| 03:38.51 | debdog | just stubled on puppet for which a firewall module is available. |
| 03:39.35 | debdog | http://projects.puppetlabs.com/projects/puppet |
| 03:41.46 | debdog | hmm, prolly not suited here |
| 03:52.55 | Inocuous | I just installed firewalld. It seems to be working. |
| 03:58.18 | ksx4system | Inocuous, debdog: why not ufw? |
| 03:59.40 | ksx4system | it's very simple yet powerful enough for any desktop and most of server instances |
| 03:59.55 | Inocuous | isn't that ubuntu? |
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| 04:01.22 | debdog | ksx4system: wasn't aware oif that. thanks! |
| 04:01.29 | ksx4system | Inocuous: afair it's python based, works like a charm under Devuan :) |
| 04:02.05 | ksx4system | debdog: enjoy :) |
| 04:02.16 | debdog | haha |
| 04:03.32 | Inocuous | I found one website that scans your ports for you to see if they are open or not, this site only does 8 ports but they were all good. |
| 04:04.13 | ksx4system | Inocuous: nmap -A -T4 -Pn 1.2.3.4 (change to your real IP, scan from another computer) |
| 04:05.02 | ksx4system | that's what I use to check ports :) |
| 04:07.17 | ksx4system | and if you'll use ufw remember to "ufw limit ssh" and *not* "ufw allow ssh" |
| 04:07.46 | ksx4system | (yes, this has ghetto fail2ban replacement) |
| 04:11.12 | Tril | so how do I report bugs in devuan |
| 04:11.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | ksx4system: that sounds dang useful |
| 04:12.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | Tril: https://git.devuan.org ? |
| 04:13.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | */*/issues |
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| 05:13.16 | golinux | firewalld coming from Redhat/Fedora? The 'd' should give you a clue why it's probably not a good idea to go there. ;) |
| 05:21.21 | nextime | golinux: as long as it doesn't depend on systemd and it's in line with the unix philosophy of do one thing and do it well, firewalld is welcome in devuan |
| 05:21.33 | nextime | ( i don't really know it, never used it ) |
| 05:25.15 | golinux | It relies on D-bus |
| 05:25.32 | golinux | Isn't that something we'd like to get rid of? |
| 05:27.16 | nextime | golinux: as long as it can be removed or you can choose to run without it, it's ok to have it in the repo |
| 05:27.30 | nextime | maybe we will remove it in default install ( at least for non-desktop installs ) |
| 05:27.41 | nextime | but this doesn't mean that it needs to be unavailable |
| 05:27.44 | golinux | I did some searches and it seems to be all tied up with services |
| 05:27.48 | golinux | To start the service and enable FirewallD on boot: |
| 05:27.48 | golinux | 1 |
| 05:27.48 | golinux | 2 |
| 05:27.48 | golinux | |
| 05:27.48 | golinux | sudo systemctl start firewalld |
| 05:27.49 | golinux | sudo systemctl enable firewalld |
| 05:28.13 | nextime | really this isn't meaning that it depend on systemd |
| 05:28.26 | nextime | anyway, as i say, i DON'T know it |
| 05:28.26 | golinux | firewalld.service - firewalld - dynamic firewall daemon |
| 05:28.27 | golinux | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:28.44 | nextime | but as long as it can be used without systemd and launched by sysvinit or manually |
| 05:28.48 | nextime | it's ok to have it in the repo |
| 05:28.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | WOOOT firewall with dbus, BINGO |
| 05:29.57 | golinux | I don;t know it either but coming from the Redhat camp guilty until proven innocent. |
| 05:30.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't care if it's available in devuan, but I'm pretty sure I don't want a firewall that uses dbus |
| 05:30.40 | nextime | i just got 5kg of pure mercury, wow! |
| 05:30.46 | nextime | it's OT |
| 05:31.04 | golinux | Maybe there's a way around systemd but is it worth it? |
| 05:31.23 | golinux | I'll bite . . . what's that for? |
| 05:31.56 | nextime | golinux: are you talking about firewalld or the mercury? |
| 05:32.02 | golinux | mercury |
| 05:32.18 | nextime | golinux: i don't yet know, but i will find something to do with it |
| 05:32.19 | nextime | :D |
| 05:32.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | yay |
| 05:32.47 | golinux | Good grief! Isn't that dangerous with kids around? |
| 05:32.50 | nextime | someone is suggesting me to build an internet connected steampunk barometer with it :P |
| 05:33.35 | golinux | Anyway . . . bedtime here |
| 05:33.37 | nextime | golinux: in my laboratory there are plenty of very dangerous things, and my kids are well educated to enter in my laboratory only when i'm in and don't touch anything without my prior permission |
| 05:35.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | mercuric fulminate, will be much and loud fun to contaminate around one square mile of countryside |
| 05:36.34 | nextime | lol |
| 05:37.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | or build a proton source and turn it into gold ;-) |
| 05:38.00 | nextime | well, i'm working on things you don't expect from sane people |
| 05:38.48 | nextime | for exami have this in my personal todo list: http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-A-Fusion-Reactor/ |
| 05:38.57 | nextime | s/exami/example |
| 05:40.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm fusion sounds fun |
| 05:40.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | might be useful for the hg->au project as well |
| 05:45.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | apropos - did you already check natural lightning for neutron radiation from fusion? |
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| 07:48.49 | crhylove | https://crhylove.wordpress.com/2016/05/07/imma-ready-do-this-a-modest-devuan-beta-1-review/ |
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| 08:25.47 | enyc | herrrms.... devian using same codename 'jessie' as debian this is confusing my chroot naming |
| 08:26.22 | enyc | if 'testing' is to use a different name "ascii" , should stable do similarly ?? |
| 08:31.52 | DusXMT | enyc: Jessie is named Jessie, but not as the toy in Toy Story (the debian case), but as in the dwarf planet. (ascii is also a name of a dwarf planet iirc) I guess the first stable release was decided to have the same name to signify it as a diverging point, as something the same but not quite, and it'll just diverge more and more. But that's just a thought, might not be correct |
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| 08:35.05 | enyc | DusXMT: interesting, ok thankyou for helpful answer =) |
| 08:35.34 | DusXMT | np |
| 08:36.21 | enyc | is there another obvious name that could be used to clearly delineate devuan releases from debians'?? |
| 08:36.28 | enyc | i guess i could use planet numbers ... |
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| 08:47.07 | enyc | wonders where to quicly get devuan-compatible debootstrap |
| 08:49.42 | parazyd | enyc: https://packages.devuan.org/devuan/pool/main/d/debootstrap/ |
| 08:51.03 | enyc | i think there is a problem tih packages.devuan.org nginx config |
| 08:51.09 | enyc | its' not listening for https on ipv6 |
| 08:51.16 | enyc | whereas http wors on ipv6+ipv4 |
| 08:51.30 | parazyd | https://transfer.sh/vAEUY/debootstrap-1.0.75-1-devuan1-all.deb |
| 08:51.52 | enyc | parazyd: sure, but still, can we work out who looks after the server, and notify them ??? |
| 08:52.06 | parazyd | shrugs and looks at jaromil |
| 08:52.08 | enyc | parazyd: transfer.sh is legacy-only server |
| 08:52.55 | enyc | jaromil: ^^ as above packages.devuan.org nginx appears to have problem with ipv6-listening for https ..... |
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| 09:18.52 | enyc | had this before ,very annoying nginx default ipv4-only problem... |
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| 09:52.38 | jaromil | enyc: i will notify nextime, but the best way to help us on this is to open an issue on gitlab |
| 09:53.05 | jaromil | nextime: https reported not working over ipv6 on packages (amprolla) |
| 09:53.10 | jaromil | bbl |
| 09:53.44 | jaromil | .oO(ipv6 for the win!) |
| 09:56.45 | enyc | jaromil: ok, i not not know about gitlab or devuan infrastructure in general! |
| 09:57.16 | parazyd | enyc: you can simply start by creating an account on https://git.devuan.org |
| 09:58.11 | parazyd | that said,maybe the link to gitlab should be more visible on the website |
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| 10:02.49 | enyc | bah! git.devuan.org is only on the legacy internet, too! |
| 10:04.54 | jaromil | that's because it is not its final installation |
| 10:05.14 | jaromil | we are investigating strategies to make it distributed |
| 10:07.08 | nextime | https v6 for packages.d.o fixed |
| 10:09.42 | nextime | enyc: the machine where is actually hosted git.devuan.org doesn't have native v6 connectivity, but we will move it on another machine soon |
| 10:10.24 | enyc | nextime: hooray =) |
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| 11:33.21 | Inocuous | I don't know if there are any sublime users here, or if this helps or not, but you can download the 64bit Ubuntu package http://www.sublimetext.com/3 <-here and use dpkg -i to install it. |
| 11:34.46 | DusXMT | does "aptitude install nvi" instead =3 |
| 11:37.26 | DusXMT | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sublime_Text - huh, it's even proprietary... |
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| 11:39.45 | DusXMT | https://www.sublimetext.com/eula - "You may not distribute or sell license keys or SUBLIME TEXT to third parties. Licenses will be revoked if distributed or sold to third parties." *shivers* |
| 11:39.45 | Inocuous | It's a great tool. I've been using it for years. It has an unlimited evaluation period. Kind of a unique approach |
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| 11:59.53 | DusXMT | Well, I don't think it'll get much success here, as most people here care about their basic freedoms :) (otherwise, we wouldn't be fighting systemd) |
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| 12:05.49 | Inocuous | what do you mean? you have issue with sublime distribution policy? They want people to have it, and they give a lifetime free evaluation. What's wrong with that? |
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| 12:07.11 | parazyd | nothing at all |
| 12:07.19 | parazyd | it's their choice |
| 12:07.30 | zdzichu | Inocuous: that's fine, but it does not follow basic freedoms |
| 12:07.36 | parazyd | it's just that it's not free software |
| 12:07.42 | parazyd | and devuan does not package non-free software |
| 12:08.11 | zdzichu | Inocuous: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html |
| 12:09.04 | Lieke | a lime text package would be nice though http://limetext.org/ |
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| 12:12.00 | DusXMT | "Free Software" is the predcessor of Open Source, by the way; but unlike Open Source, it focuses more on the phylosophical part of the issue (Open Source advocates generally have no problem with using proprietary software, including the founder himself) |
| 12:12.19 | Inocuous | I'm all about stopping systemd but when they distribute a software with no limit on the evaluation period. That's splitting hairs with being free. |
| 12:13.48 | DusXMT | Inocuous: But does it provide the 4 basic freedoms? Either way, it's everyone's personal choice whether they want to use non-free software or not, I don't want to be anyone's moral judge here (as no one likes that), but I think the freedoms are important |
| 12:14.08 | DusXMT | s/important/very important/ |
| 12:15.05 | Inocuous | You are very principled. I respect that. |
| 12:19.20 | Inocuous | If I could ask, what are the four basic freedoms you referenced DusXMT ? |
| 12:19.42 | zdzichu | Inocuous: I've provided a link to them 10 minutes ago |
| 12:19.55 | DusXMT | 14:08 < zdzichu> Inocuous: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html |
| 12:23.35 | Inocuous | sorry, I missed the link before. |
| 12:25.33 | Inocuous | Do you limit yourself to using only software that fits this criteria? I mean, what if you need some specific thing that there is no free, (as outlined there) version for? |
| 12:26.29 | zdzichu | maybe you forgot in which channel you are |
| 12:26.58 | zdzichu | this is a development channel for devuan, a distribution made from debian, which is built around those 4 freedoms |
| 12:27.20 | DusXMT | If I'd need it for school or work, then i'd unfortunately have to use it. Otherwise, I I'd find an alternative; so far I can do everything I need with free software |
| 12:29.52 | Inocuous | I'm not against the view you have, I like devuan but I don't apply as stringent requirements on the other software I use. |
| 12:30.46 | Inocuous | Please understand I'm not being critical or judgemental, I'm just discussing |
| 12:32.17 | parazyd | Inocuous: even debian doesn't package sublime, if that's your issue |
| 12:34.19 | Inocuous | I was surprised at first but now I understand why it's not listed. |
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| 12:42.54 | Inocuous | did I offend anyone? |
| 12:43.01 | DusXMT | I don't think so |
| 12:43.57 | Inocuous | do you develop softwares and packages for Devuan DusXMT ? |
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| 12:44.42 | DusXMT | I do have a project I'm working on, but it's still far from being releasable/presentable :) |
| 12:46.53 | DusXMT | isn't a devuan developer, just a user, and this chat _may_ be a little off-topic, so.... |
| 12:47.07 | Inocuous | fair enough |
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| 14:04.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | !mirrors |
| 14:04.46 | infobot | i heard mirrors is https://devuan.voyanet.org/ http://devuan.lucylaika.ovh http://devuan.ksx4system.net/ ftp, http://tux.rainside.sk/devuan/ http://devuan.selea.se/ http & ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/os/Linux/distr/devuan/ http://neo900-devuanfiles.dev-one.org (eventually, until then:) http://devuan-temporary-mirror.almesberger.net |
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| 14:57.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | parazyd: are you able to fix MIRRORS.txt? See https://git.devuan.org/devuan-editors/devuan-www/issues/111 |
| 14:58.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think that's a pretty severe oopsie, sort of homegrown DDoS |
| 15:03.07 | Inocuous | my window manager Xfce has 3 options for program/system notifications as far as style and color. Anyone know if this is something that can be added to? modified? does it require a tool of some sort perhaps? |
| 15:06.20 | Inocuous | I found a channel for Xfce but it's not very well populated. |
| 15:27.12 | fsmithred | I've seen ZOMG-PONIES in /usr/share/themes, but I never knew what that theme was for. |
| 15:27.41 | fsmithred | you should be able to use that or Smoke as a guide, and create your own theme. |
| 15:28.29 | fsmithred | Inocuous, did you try changing the theme to see what those others look like? |
| 15:28.30 | golinux | Inocuous: You might look here http://xfce-look.org/ |
| 15:28.36 | fsmithred | I'm afraid of the ponies. |
| 15:28.50 | golinux | I use smoke |
| 15:30.26 | fsmithred | I assume the notification themes and the desktop themes are structured differently, since themes are accessible to one or the other, but not both. |
| 15:31.18 | fsmithred | Oh! It's just a gtkrc. |
| 15:31.37 | fsmithred | Inocuous, yes, it's hackable. Easily. |
| 15:32.50 | Inocuous | Is it text file? |
| 15:32.55 | fsmithred | yes |
| 15:33.55 | Inocuous | Nice. that's what I like! |
| 15:36.53 | fsmithred | gogle for XfceNotifyWindow to find information. |
| 15:36.54 | Inocuous | I was able to add a menu item yesterday. Of course then I found that the app had already put one in under a new menu group. |
| 15:37.16 | Inocuous | great! thank you very much fsmithred |
| 15:37.17 | fsmithred | lol |
| 15:37.37 | fsmithred | yeah, customizing the menu in xfce is kind of a pain. |
| 15:37.59 | golinux | Inocuous: Just reading the scrollback . . . it is very risky to install packages from ubuntu or other repos than devuan. |
| 15:38.18 | golinux | You could easily end up with a frankendevuan. |
| 15:38.26 | fsmithred | golinux, I start with the assumption that it's bad to mix repos. |
| 15:38.55 | Inocuous | good point. So far though,that's been my only deviation. |
| 15:38.58 | fsmithred | Years ago, I killed a zenwalk system that way. Fixed it by switching to debian. |
| 15:39.34 | fsmithred | Yes, you can get away with it with no problems in some cases. |
| 15:39.40 | golinux | You may not see the consequences for a while. |
| 15:39.42 | fsmithred | Maybe even many cases. I don't know. |
| 15:39.46 | fsmithred | true. |
| 15:39.47 | golinux | Could be a timebomb |
| 15:39.59 | golinux | Getting some links about it now |
| 15:41.37 | DusXMT | always compiles what he can't get, so he has the newest version of LLVM, Seamonkey, rustc, and other things as well =3 |
| 15:41.48 | DusXMT | s/can't get/can't get in the package repository/ |
| 15:42.19 | golinux | https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian |
| 15:42.38 | *** join/#devuan Drugo (~andrea@host33-205-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 15:43.03 | golinux | There's one thread on their forum that has collected posts from users who have trashed their systems installing random stuff |
| 15:44.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://git.devuan.org/devuan-editors/devuan-www/issues/111 |
| 15:45.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | ^^^ relevant for MIRRORS |
| 15:45.17 | golinux | Inocuous: Here's the thread Repo mix-and-match hit parade http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=114130 |
| 15:46.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | could somebody please urgently update https://files.devuan.org/MIRRORS.txt ? |
| 15:47.42 | fsmithred | I installed the beta in virtualbox and then made some live isos. Just posted it to the mailing list. https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20160507.154348.efba7e6b.en.html |
| 15:50.56 | golinux | fsmithred: Congrats. Now post that URL wherever you can!! I didn't mess with the earlier version (with broken purpy) but will have a look at this one. |
| 15:51.43 | golinux | Inocuous: This is another nice writeup about free software on the Devuan website |
| 15:51.46 | golinux | https://devuan.org/os/free-software |
| 15:56.50 | *** join/#devuan rain1 (~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1) |
| 16:01.35 | golinux | crhylove: Just read your review. |
| 16:01.41 | golinux | Welcome aboard!! |
| 16:02.14 | golinux | But seems you haven't heard about this http://www.pcworld.com/article/3036509/linux/iceweasel-will-be-renamed-firefox-as-relations-between-debian-and-mozilla-thaw.html |
| 16:04.30 | golinux | So iceweasel will be going away. That makes me sad . . . |
| 16:04.58 | MinceR | firefox is going to hell anyway |
| 16:05.37 | DusXMT | Yeah, I liked iceweasel as one was allowed to mess with it however one wanted; it's going to be more difficult with Firefox (especially when it comes to porting it to different platforms) |
| 16:06.11 | golinux | Yeah it's going down the tubes |
| 16:06.48 | DusXMT | Though personally, I find that Firefox' performance to have degraded significantly since around version 24, and so I've switched to Seamonkey, which supposedly uses the same web engine, but runs much smoother in my experience |
| 16:07.00 | golinux | But that link was in response to this review posted while I was sleeping: https://crhylove.wordpress.com/2016/05/07/imma-ready-do-this-a-modest-devuan-beta-1-review/ |
| 16:07.58 | Inocuous | Personally I found Chromium under Ubuntu to be very good. I don't know, is it available for Devuan? |
| 16:08.20 | fsmithred | I believe chromium is no longer maintained. |
| 16:08.43 | golinux | I have an update waiting on Devuan |
| 16:08.43 | DusXMT | not to mention that it only worked on x86-based computers the last time I checked |
| 16:08.44 | Inocuous | that's too bad, but anyway, iceweasel has been doing well for me |
| 16:08.52 | muep_ | my impression is that the software is, but no idea about packaging |
| 16:09.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | pets konqueror |
| 16:09.41 | golinux | KDE . . . ugh |
| 16:09.44 | fsmithred | but maybe what I say is not true - there's a much newer version in jessie than in wheezy |
| 16:09.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 16:10.09 | DusXMT | pets epiphany |
| 16:10.23 | Inocuous | is konueror still actively updated by a dev or dev team? |
| 16:10.34 | Inocuous | woops. typo. :( |
| 16:10.34 | fsmithred | pes his lynx |
| 16:10.44 | fsmithred | can't spell |
| 16:10.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | hellekin: you around? please fix https://files.devuan.org/MIRRORS.txt |
| 16:11.22 | golinux | No other browser was a customizable as FF back in the day |
| 16:11.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | hellekin: honestly * */6 * * * is a _very_ poor idea ;-) |
| 16:11.31 | fsmithred | Inocuous, I'm pretty sure konqueror is still in kde |
| 16:11.54 | golinux | with all the bloat included |
| 16:12.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | at very least make that 33 */6 * * * |
| 16:12.25 | DusXMT | golinux: I've heard that they cut down a lot of the bloat in KDE5, but I've never used it myself, so... |
| 16:13.00 | DusXMT | (but yeah, I've used KDE4 at one time, and it was making a fast machine feel outdated x3) |
| 16:13.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | Inocuous: (konqueror updated) not so much |
| 16:13.24 | muep_ | imo, the refactoring for KDE5 seems more relevant for those who wish to use just some KDE-ish application outside KDE |
| 16:13.42 | golinux | DusXMT: I installed KDE once. Never again |
| 16:13.54 | DusXMT | has to agree |
| 16:14.15 | golinux | Even the apps pull in way too much cruft |
| 16:14.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | installed gnome once and never again ;-) |
| 16:15.02 | DusXMT | hasn't even tried Gnome3 yet, don't have any systemd-based system to test it on =3 |
| 16:16.00 | rain1 | hello |
| 16:16.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | re KDE I have to add that I tweaked it heavily since KDE1, so it does not exactly look, feel, behave like the default KDE4 install |
| 16:17.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | hates bloatware like akonadi though |
| 16:18.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's same evil design principles like systemd, just for desktop |
| 16:19.33 | DusXMT | I guess konqueror doesn't really need all that many updates if it uses libwebkit as a shared library, since most security features and new web features would probably get added there |
| 16:19.51 | DusXMT | s/security features/security updates/ |
| 16:20.45 | DusXMT | (same with epiphany and friends) |
| 16:20.47 | muep_ | https://blogs.gnome.org/mcatanzaro/2016/02/01/on-webkit-security-updates/ |
| 16:21.20 | rain1 | what do you think of zeitgeist |
| 16:21.44 | muep_ | webkit based stuff seems like something where some extra care would be useful |
| 16:22.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | (akonadi) KDE starts it during session start when file indexing for desktop search is enabled (something I never do so I failed to notice for long time), and then it happily starts polling all your mail accounts, even when you don't have anything started you'd think was a mail client. Go figure! And the KDE folks don't even consider this a major flaw, of course the won't pay my salary when I get fired for reaching out of corporate LAN |
| 16:22.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | without even noticing |
| 16:24.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly akonadi my ass, WTF?! |
| 16:25.00 | DusXMT | muep_: I guess that's why I hand-compile my browser :) A browser's something that interfaces the web, a place full of all kinds of nasty javascript and other stuffs, it's important to be up-to-date |
| 16:25.52 | nextime | DusXMT: and you also read and debug all the browser code every time you compile it? |
| 16:26.10 | rain1 | :\ |
| 16:26.14 | nextime | there is no point in compile it every time |
| 16:26.16 | muep_ | DusXMT: is it a webkit based browser? are you also rebuilding the webkit libs? |
| 16:26.36 | nextime | a browser it a huge mess of many things, many with dangers |
| 16:26.55 | nextime | the right way is to isolate multiple browsers for different things |
| 16:27.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akonadi >>Akonadi communicates with servers to fetch and send data instead of applications through a specialized API.<< YAYAYA |
| 16:27.30 | nextime | something like the concepts in qubeos |
| 16:27.35 | nextime | separation and isolation |
| 16:27.41 | DusXMT | nods |
| 16:28.38 | nextime | so, don't use the same browser in the same environment for pornhub and your bank website |
| 16:28.46 | muep_ | I think the akonadi concept was pretty neat. for example it'd allow the calendar thing in desktop panel to know what events I have in calendar. but the implementation did not ever seem to get good |
| 16:28.47 | nextime | and so on |
| 16:28.51 | *** part/#devuan rain1 (~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1) |
| 16:29.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | nextime: very good advice and I already often idly muse how to run konqueror in a chroot |
| 16:29.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | on my todo list |
| 16:29.49 | nextime | ( and of course, don't do that cause you don't want your crappy bank website can be used to hack in to your precious pornhub account! ) |
| 16:30.05 | DusXMT | :) |
| 16:30.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehe |
| 16:30.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | never used hornpub |
| 16:30.34 | nextime | DocScrutinizer05: you liar. |
| 16:30.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | beer isn't tasty in that pub |
| 16:31.10 | nextime | DocScrutinizer05: it even have the VR section |
| 16:31.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 16:31.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | you mean like oculus rift? |
| 16:31.41 | nextime | yes |
| 16:31.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | *cough* what's the URL? ;-) |
| 16:31.59 | nextime | porn is the real VR killer application |
| 16:32.02 | nextime | no, more |
| 16:32.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | has no rift (yet) |
| 16:32.09 | nextime | porn is the real killer application for * |
| 16:32.21 | nextime | DocScrutinizer05: : you can even just build a google cardboard |
| 16:32.21 | nextime | :D |
| 16:32.34 | nextime | http://www.pornhub.com/vr |
| 16:33.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | (cardboard) would mean I need a android device, right? |
| 16:33.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks for the URL ;-) |
| 16:33.49 | nextime | it's preferred, as you get a lot of application ready to use, but no really a "MUST" as long as you have a device with the right dimensioning |
| 16:34.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm loosely following VR goggles development |
| 16:34.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | haven't found anything outstanding and available yet, might take another few years |
| 16:35.02 | *** join/#devuan Scartozzo (~flavio@2-233-3-55.ip215.fastwebnet.it) |
| 16:35.22 | fsmithred | I'm waiting for full-on holodeck. |
| 16:35.42 | nextime | fsmithred: they are close |
| 16:35.46 | golinux | <nextime> the right way is to isolate multiple browsers for different things +1! |
| 16:35.49 | fsmithred | yikes |
| 16:36.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | I mean, something with decent "fullscreen" resolution, also for AR when used without shades, with eyetracker and camera and decent stereo |
| 16:39.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | meanwhile I give my TV's 3D feature a try every now and then and every single time find it unbearable |
| 16:40.15 | golinux | I still have a CRT! |
| 16:40.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | cool |
| 16:40.54 | golinux | No SNS for me until the stops working |
| 16:40.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | never had a better TV picture than with my Loewe |
| 16:41.12 | golinux | *the CRT |
| 16:41.22 | *** join/#devuan fred`` (fred@earthli.ng) |
| 16:42.13 | DusXMT | SNS - Smart non-sense? |
| 16:42.37 | golinux | Shiny New Shit ;) |
| 16:43.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | meanwhile TV picture quality goes down the sewer just like audio quality did with advent of MP3 |
| 16:45.02 | *** join/#devuan sauron (~quassel@2001:8b0:cac6:0:214:fdff:fe10:cc41) |
| 16:47.25 | DusXMT | It does? In what way? (I don't watch TV, so I don't get to see it) |
| 16:47.31 | DusXMT | DocScrutinizer05: ^ |
| 16:48.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | nextime: golinux: do you have access to files.do? see * */6 * * * in https://files.devuan.org/MIRRORS.txt (https://git.devuan.org/devuan-editors/devuan-www/issues/111) |
| 16:48.54 | DusXMT | thinks there should be an "urgent" mailing list for cases like these |
| 16:48.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | DusXMT: the mere display goes HD and even 4k, but the compression artifacts and whatnot get constantly worse |
| 16:52.24 | golinux | DocScrutinizer05: That issue way over my head |
| 16:52.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway the devuan infra maintainers want tomake sure (by access logs or the like) that none of the existing mirrors has a "5 star" rsync cronjob, before rolling out a new beta |
| 16:52.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | golinux: it's just a two char fix in https://files.devuan.org/MIRRORS.txt |
| 16:53.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | s§ * */6 § 33 */6 § |
| 16:54.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | the suggested cronjob will start a new rsync *every minute* |
| 16:54.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | intead of once, every 6 hours |
| 16:55.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | no surprise when you "SEE HEAVY LOAD" ;-) |
| 16:55.36 | golinux | Let me check if it's been fixed. There is often a significant lag time between fixes and merges to the site itself |
| 16:58.43 | golinux | I don;t even know where to find that file. Sorry |
| 16:59.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | a pity. Thanks anyway. Maybe you can pester the right person? |
| 17:00.24 | golinux | That would be either jaromil, hellekin or nextime (and maybe others that I don;t know) |
| 17:00.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | nextime: ^^^ you here? |
| 17:01.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | golinux: can you bump severity of the https://git.devuan.org/devuan-editors/devuan-www/issues/111 ticket? |
| 17:03.12 | golinux | I just assigned it to nextime so he'ss get a notification |
| 17:03.39 | golinux | *he'ss > he'll |
| 17:05.01 | golinux | And pinged jaromil and hellekin |
| 17:05.19 | golinux | needs some b'fast bbl |
| 17:06.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | golinux: ta, and enjoy! :-) |
| 17:15.28 | enyc | hrrm |
| 17:15.40 | enyc | if manually navigating https://packages.devuan.org/merged/dists/ ... |
| 17:16.06 | enyc | the -security/ subdirectories, appear to be a broken redirect to 'amprolla.devuan.org' |
| 17:24.31 | enyc | (now) port 443 closed, port 80 http givineg nginx errors ... |
| 17:29.06 | enyc | infact, same happening with https://auto.mirror.devuan.org/ which may of ocurse be same server! |
| 17:29.27 | *** join/#devuan Ryushin (~Ryushin@65.114.195.184) |
| 17:30.21 | enyc | looks bad for a distro if security updates not functional |
| 17:31.13 | jaromil | enyc: have you actually tried to use security updates? |
| 17:31.23 | jaromil | because of how amprolla works, you cannot browse the directories |
| 17:31.32 | jaromil | the security updates of devuan are function |
| 17:31.34 | jaromil | al |
| 17:31.38 | enyc | jaromil: hrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrm apt was comprlaining last i checked |
| 17:31.44 | jaromil | then they are not |
| 17:31.46 | jaromil | let me try |
| 17:32.18 | Inocuous | how do you do security updates? |
| 17:32.20 | jaromil | i get them |
| 17:32.21 | jaromil | Get:7 http://auto.mirror.devuan.org jessie-security/main amd64 Packages [241 kB] |
| 17:33.06 | jaromil | Inocuous: we overlay debian security updates. if systemd is introduced by one of them (shouldn't, but who knows) we plan to intervene by hand |
| 17:33.06 | Inocuous | Is that something that is set to come up automatically on install? |
| 17:33.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | jaromil: please update/fix https://files.devuan.org/MIRRORS.txt |
| 17:33.50 | jaromil | cannot now, but what is wrong? |
| 17:33.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | jaromil: https://git.devuan.org/devuan-editors/devuan-www/issues/111 |
| 17:33.59 | jaromil | ACK |
| 17:34.01 | Inocuous | that sounds like a good idea. saves a lot of resources. |
| 17:34.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | * */6 * * * |
| 17:34.17 | jaromil | enyc: so security updates seem to work |
| 17:34.30 | jaromil | DocScrutinizer05: we have discussed that and that is fine |
| 17:34.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh it is? |
| 17:34.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | how's that fine? |
| 17:34.46 | jaromil | if a mirror takes more than 6 hours to fill then the line is too slow and we'd rather not have the mirror |
| 17:35.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | you're aware it runs another rsync *every minute*? |
| 17:35.54 | jaromil | its every 6 hours |
| 17:36.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | no it's * on minutes |
| 17:36.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | 42 */6 is onece every 6h |
| 17:36.37 | jaromil | i have to go now |
| 17:36.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | * */6 is 60 times every 5th |
| 17:36.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | 6th hour |
| 17:37.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | see https://git.devuan.org/devuan-editors/devuan-www/issues/111 |
| 17:38.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | you don't want a few dozen mirrors run a concurrent rsync every minute |
| 17:38.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | or did I get crontab wrong? |
| 17:38.43 | Lieke | http://www.crontab-generator.org/ |
| 17:40.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2016/05/07/plasma-desktopdA2219.png |
| 17:40.18 | koollman | DocScrutinizer05: no, you got it right |
| 17:41.26 | enyc | jaromil: ok it eseem it requires plain http only |
| 17:42.02 | enyc | jaromil: now allowed the machone where that is to make unencrypted http to that server |
| 17:42.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | jaromil: http://wstaw.org/m/2016/05/07/plasma-desktopdA2219.png |
| 17:42.45 | enyc | i still think it ought to be browsable and support https ... and not have broken redirects on packages server (tries to redirect to https on amprolla, which fails) |
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| 17:45.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | enyc: amprolla is an overlay afaik |
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| 17:46.38 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: im guessing from above, this is being thought about changing into some sort of more distribtued arrangement ? |
| 17:52.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | enyc: sorry? |
| 17:53.55 | DusXMT | enyc: More centralized, you perhaps mean? |
| 17:55.37 | enyc | humm more distribitued into mirros, i meant, or something |
| 17:56.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't get the initial question |
| 17:56.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | what is "this"? |
| 17:57.01 | enyc | err repositories // including security updates |
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| 17:57.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | aah, well *aiui* the devuan repos just "mirror" debian repos for everything not patched |
| 17:58.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | and actually I think it's a dynamic forward, but note please that I have no clue about amprolla and how it works |
| 17:59.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | I just can see how the http:// reprresentation might be incorrect regarding what apt actually does |
| 17:59.47 | nextime | amprolla is a software that every interval check a list of overlay repos, the first one is the one where devuan packages are, and then debian repos |
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| 18:00.11 | nextime | and it downloads and merge the /dist directory, building a "virtual" /dist directory with all packages |
| 18:00.28 | nextime | and then it setup a serie of HTTP 302 redirect for the pool/ directory |
| 18:00.48 | nextime | so, when you do an apt-get update you download the dists/ files from the amprolla generated repo |
| 18:01.12 | nextime | but when you apt-get install something, you request an uri on the amprolla managed web servers |
| 18:01.28 | nextime | and then you get redirected with an external repository to download the .deb file |
| 18:01.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 18:01.40 | nextime | and the external repo can be or the real devuan repo |
| 18:01.42 | nextime | or a debian one |
| 18:01.43 | *** join/#devuan dardevelin (~dardeveli@unaffiliated/dardevelin) |
| 18:02.01 | nextime | so, when you download devuan-keyring or sysvinit-core |
| 18:02.07 | enyc | nextime: interesting approach |
| 18:02.12 | nextime | you download the .deb file from devuan repos |
| 18:02.27 | nextime | when you download "vim", that isn't patched by devuan |
| 18:02.37 | nextime | you download the .deb directly from a debian repo |
| 18:02.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | great explanation, should go to the wiki :-) |
| 18:03.12 | nextime | enyc: is the approach that save us a lot of bandwidth, make repos faster as we use the debian infrastructure for all packages we don't touch |
| 18:03.21 | nextime | and in the same time save a lot of disk space for us |
| 18:03.22 | nextime | :D |
| 18:03.24 | enyc | nextime: nods makes sense |
| 18:04.04 | nextime | also, amprolla let us manage dependencies in a sort of "pinning server side" thanks ro override files |
| 18:04.08 | nextime | :) |
| 18:04.22 | nextime | s/ro/to |
| 18:04.29 | enyc | nextime: be good to support https on it too (and when connected over https, redirect to https version of debian repo etc) , can be helpful for reasons for some firewall scenarios or networks with annoying port80 redirects |
| 18:04.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | you already got a patent on that? :-D |
| 18:04.43 | nextime | enyc: : it's in the todo |
| 18:04.52 | nextime | sadly many debian repos doesn't support https |
| 18:04.54 | enyc | nextime: this does mean the server-admin can't "select" the mirror being redirected-to though ? |
| 18:05.01 | nextime | but i'm working on proxy them |
| 18:05.15 | enyc | nextime: specific debian repos ddo e.g. ftp.uk.debian.org etc. |
| 18:05.30 | enyc | or rather, debian.hands.com |
| 18:05.33 | nextime | enyc: not yet, but in a couple of days i will deploy a version where there will be a match netween the devuan mirror selected and the debian one |
| 18:05.36 | nextime | so, you can |
| 18:05.57 | nextime | like |
| 18:06.07 | nextime | if you choose uk.mirror.devuan.org |
| 18:06.09 | enyc | nextime: thankyou for acknoweldgeing (and agreeing!!!!!) |
| 18:06.15 | nextime | you will use ftp.uk.debian.org for debian packages |
| 18:06.25 | *** join/#devuan crdil (~crdil@unaffiliated/cardiel) |
| 18:06.58 | nextime | actually, the debian mirror is selected by httpredir.debian.org |
| 18:07.19 | nextime | and that will remain the same using auto.mirror.devuan.org |
| 18:07.32 | enyc | nextime: but you may need to redirect to diffeent hostnames to match https certs oh well |
| 18:07.48 | enyc | nextime: you're right this is a wider poblem (if you consider it a problem, which is another whole debate ) |
| 18:08.04 | enyc | nextime: i've been using e.g. university mirror which has https anyway |
| 18:08.17 | nextime | enyc: well, i consider it something coming to be solved, i have just to find the time to work on it :) |
| 18:08.34 | enyc | nextime: thankyou =) |
| 18:09.03 | enyc | nextime: seemingly i've set some of my vms on safe-enough, contolled nat, ipv6, etc. to use ftp:// instead =) |
| 18:09.14 | enyc | i seem to be there to weed-out corner-cases =) |
| 18:09.26 | enyc | e.g. pointing out the ipv6 https problem previously |
| 18:09.26 | nextime | of source yes |
| 18:09.38 | nextime | for ftp:// i'm thinking about using ftpfs server side |
| 18:09.47 | nextime | to "mirror" debian repos on our ftp |
| 18:09.47 | nextime | :D |
| 18:10.23 | nextime | enyc: : and i appreciate you point me in this misconfiguration ( v6 https ) :) |
| 18:10.41 | nextime | ok, time to be a daddy for my kids, seeya huys |
| 18:10.57 | nextime | s/huys/guys |
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| 20:14.32 | *** join/#devuan crouse (~crouse@173-18-148-236.client.mchsi.com) |
| 20:34.58 | *** join/#devuan Scartozzo (~flavio@2-233-3-55.ip215.fastwebnet.it) |
| 20:42.32 | *** join/#devuan furrywolf (~randyg@107.25.129.132) |
| 20:43.14 | *** join/#devuan CapNemo (~CapNemo@c-73-33-103-172.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 20:47.02 | *** join/#devuan mns` (~mns@177.13.50.194) |
| 20:49.57 | *** join/#devuan Guest753 (~Guest2371@83.220.237.126) |
| 20:50.18 | Guest753 | Hello World! |
| 20:51.29 | enyc | meep |
| 20:52.53 | enyc | randomly, wonders what it would take to build devuan or debian for i386 , all set to build for 486/5x86 compatible, unlike newer debian's ... |
