| 00:13.21 | ksx4system | GeneralStupid: you could still use its open source sibling, Chromium :) |
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| 09:27.03 | edbarx | C operator priority/ass |
| 09:29.05 | edbarx | C operator priority/associativity: "left-to-right", "right-to-left", ... BUT relative to what?! Relative to the READER or the TEXT?3 |
| 09:30.19 | detha | Relative to the phase of the moon :/ |
| 09:31.21 | detha | see also C type propagation rules |
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| 10:11.24 | dimkr | parazyd, finally found some time to investigate why I get non-bootable rk3288 images |
| 10:11.52 | dimkr | kinda hard to debug this at the slow pace of three hours a week :) |
| 10:14.26 | Remjey | Hey guys, it seems to me that the Devuan bitcoin donation process is somewhat flawed because of https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Address_reuse (tldr a new, single-use bitcoin address should be generated for each donation) |
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| 10:33.24 | zdzichu | Remjey: I fail to see any problem |
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| 10:56.43 | dimkr | parazyd, the image file gets truncated from 1.8 GB to 53 MB after partitioning - is that normal? the GPT partition table looks sane and the ext4 partition can be mounted |
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| 11:44.13 | nextime | Remjey: address reuse is an issue only in certain use cases |
| 11:44.46 | nextime | the main issue using only one address is information disclosure |
| 11:45.09 | nextime | anyone can know how many bitcoin is devuan receiving |
| 11:45.37 | nextime | but this isn't an issue for us as, for a project like devuan, public discolosure of those infos is a plus, not a minus |
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| 11:51.46 | Remjey | nextime: Well I understand that Devuan is not following the advice presented in https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Address_reuse#Security as can be observed here https://blockchain.info/address/1QFbx3bKA8LABAGEaSe7EiP9JCxe2j4fN7 |
| 11:53.14 | Remjey | ie. spending several times from the same address, which could lead in the past to private key recovery, which is not possible any more, but is advised against. |
| 12:00.53 | zdzichu | I just don't but arguments about privacy and tracking the bitcoins |
| 12:01.12 | zdzichu | IMO it's not worth additional work to generate new address for every donor |
| 12:08.37 | nextime | Remjey: we are not using this address to spend, but just to receive at the moment |
| 12:09.18 | nextime | when we will need to spend from here, probably, we will first transfer bitcoin to other addresses and/or change it to fiat money, and then also change the receiving address |
| 12:09.56 | nextime | so, the advice about multple spending from one address doesn't apply to our case |
| 12:17.09 | Remjey | nextime: with Bitcoins spending or transfering value is the same thing, itâs just signing a transfer request from the source address to the recipient address(es). The page I just linked on blockchain.info shows that 3 transfers exist from the Devuan address to other adresses, and this is not recommended as it is an unintended « feature » that may not be as scrutinized for bugs and flaws as intended features. |
| 12:25.35 | Remjey | I think a compromise would be to change the donation address before each transfer. |
| 12:26.37 | Remjey | I mean, each transfer of value from the donation address. |
| 12:27.56 | Remjey | Apart from that, Iâm pretty satisfied with Devuan and encountering almost no problems since Iâve been using it. I was complaining about this Bitcoin thing because I have donated some recently. |
| 12:41.51 | nextime | Remjey: 3 transfers are few transfer to be an issue |
| 12:42.51 | nextime | anyway soon or later we will work also on this, it's just low on our priority at the moment as is a non-issue in pratice |
| 12:43.46 | nextime | ( anyway, no joking on that, thanks to address this, any suggestion and/or critique is welcome ) |
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| 13:23.53 | figlfdev | wonders if furrywolf reads the logs |
| 13:24.11 | figlfdev | hey, ive got a real solution to a problem youre having (how often is that going to happen) |
| 13:26.01 | figlfdev | hey why is ci.devuan.org quiet? (allegedly) |
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| 14:18.00 | figlfdev | o/ |
| 14:18.22 | telst4r | \o |
| 14:18.36 | figlfdev | heya telst4r (and golinux) |
| 14:25.44 | golinux | figlfdev: Hi there |
| 14:26.21 | figlfdev | so apple can disable your phone camera now (but they still cant turn it on without you, lol) |
| 14:26.52 | figlfdev | because if you go to a concert with your phone, rather than kicking you out for taking pics, it makes perfect sense to let the oem and the band/venue pwn your phone |
| 14:26.56 | figlfdev | we live in bonkers-world. |
| 14:27.19 | figlfdev | obviously, dont buy anything from apple. but this is worse than just apple, everyones doing it |
| 14:27.26 | figlfdev | dont go to concerts either, i guess. |
| 14:28.15 | figlfdev | if an artist wants to pwn my phone, i dont want their music. |
| 14:28.26 | debdog | do you have a link to that information? |
| 14:28.34 | figlfdev | hold on |
| 14:29.03 | figlfdev | oh... its just another apple patent, sorry |
| 14:29.11 | debdog | ok, phew |
| 14:29.28 | figlfdev | im pretty sure apple will patent borg implants eventually. thats different than selling them as a feature |
| 14:29.31 | figlfdev | https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jun/30/apple-iphone-camera-disable-remote-sensors-patent?_e_pi_=7%2CPAGE_ID10%2C4343897550 |
| 14:29.53 | figlfdev | sorry, got so caught up debating the ethics of this with some shill, i missed that it was just another fascist apple patent |
| 14:30.34 | figlfdev | they have a lot of those :/ |
| 14:30.46 | figlfdev | tim cook should be against all of them (i doubt he is) |
| 14:31.02 | figlfdev | i think he has a heart, i dont know how he manages to ceo. |
| 14:31.58 | MinceR | tim crook is just yet another crApple drone |
| 14:32.09 | MinceR | he wouldn't have been made CEO otherwise |
| 14:32.45 | debdog | interesting read |
| 14:32.56 | figlfdev | MinceR: youre probably right |
| 14:34.15 | detha | I like this concept. I shall install the appropriate infrared transmitter in my tinfoil hat. |
| 14:34.42 | figlfdev | who will block the watchers? |
| 14:35.46 | figlfdev | detha: im sure the same people that implement it can override it. its never a 2-way street after all |
| 14:35.49 | figlfdev | worth a try though. |
| 14:36.45 | detha | It'll automate the 'No, I don't want my picture on facebook tyvm, please put the phone away' |
| 14:37.12 | figlfdev | sooner or later facebook will be self-aware |
| 14:37.19 | figlfdev | hopefully it can feel pain. |
| 14:38.55 | figlfdev | we are giving sds this golden stuff, and theyre ignoring it |
| 14:46.57 | figlfdev | brb |
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| 15:09.15 | furrywolf | pokes paw to see what kind of paw it is |
| 15:12.09 | figlfdev | hey! |
| 15:12.15 | figlfdev | i have something for you |
| 15:12.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | WHAT? this is an apple patent??? Either me or c't mag suggested this YEARS ago already, as an already established feature of all cameras (April's fool) |
| 15:12.44 | figlfdev | quickly produces a string for the command line before he gets a homemade tazer aimed at him or something |
| 15:13.07 | figlfdev | DocScrutinizer05: better, its the guardian |
| 15:13.58 | figlfdev | furrywolf: Xephyr :2 -resizeable & sleep 2 ; icewm --display=:2 & # we herd you like xservers that dont get taken down by iceweasel/ff |
| 15:14.17 | figlfdev | so we put an xserver in your xserver, so you can crash your browser while you crash your browser |
| 15:14.34 | figlfdev | and then it wont take your other x stuff with it |
| 15:14.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | also they are so terribly wrong on concept/terminology once more. How is the IR-LED sending the command related to SENSORS? |
| 15:14.59 | figlfdev | just restard Xephyr (props to fsmithred for the original demo, ive tweaked it) |
| 15:15.11 | figlfdev | DocScrutinizer05: it just works! |
| 15:15.21 | figlfdev | restard |
| 15:15.22 | furrywolf | it doesn't crash x, it just makes it mostly unresponsive (very slow mouse pointer, even slower response to clicking anything)... switching to a vt and killing firefox brings x back to normal. |
| 15:15.24 | figlfdev | ffs... restart |
| 15:15.49 | figlfdev | oh thats right. well fwiw it also makes it more secure, isolates it from hw accel, etc |
| 15:15.55 | figlfdev | in any case its an option |
| 15:16.02 | figlfdev | how you like |
| 15:16.14 | furrywolf | so the once a month I actually view a youtube video someone pastes, it won't play properly. joy. :P |
| 15:16.21 | figlfdev | hey i dont know |
| 15:16.50 | figlfdev | you can always close the browser in xephyr, leave xephyr open, open youtube in real x, watch youtube... |
| 15:17.03 | figlfdev | or use another browser for that, or use smtube, or... |
| 15:17.24 | figlfdev | youre the picky one, thats what i know (im picky too) |
| 15:17.30 | furrywolf | it's design stupidity at every level... web designers shouldn't write undelayed javascript loops updating things. firefox should be sane enough not to send infinitely fast updates to x just because a web page tells it to. and x should be designed well enough that excessive crap from one connection doesn't make it unable to deal with the rest of reality... |
| 15:17.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh >>Apple first filed for this patent in 2009<< dunno if I was that early |
| 15:17.45 | figlfdev | "it's design stupidity at every level... web designers shouldn't write undelayed javascript loops updating things." <- TOTALLY AGREE |
| 15:17.57 | figlfdev | "firefox should be sane" <- dream on... |
| 15:18.15 | figlfdev | maybe if you fork it... even then, thats a lot of crazy to undo |
| 15:18.23 | furrywolf | firefox is beyond forking. |
| 15:18.35 | furrywolf | if I wanted to work on a browser, I'd start by adding stuff to dillo, not removing it from firefox. |
| 15:18.35 | figlfdev | au contraire, its forking nuts! |
| 15:19.10 | figlfdev | "adding stuff to dillo" yes ive read about that in the logs |
| 15:19.21 | furrywolf | I mean, really, X has been around how long, and it still lets one broken client affect the entire system? |
| 15:19.36 | figlfdev | actually, in my experience dillo is even less stable than firefox (if thats possible) |
| 15:20.01 | figlfdev | well x wasnt made for firefox. only the nsa can contain firefox, and theyre more interested in it spreading |
| 15:20.06 | furrywolf | hrmm, I've never had it crash. |
| 15:20.20 | figlfdev | (maybe kapersky could do it) |
| 15:20.44 | furrywolf | well, know we know what devuan needs to do to get mainstream installations... write a browser that doesn't suck, and include it. :) |
| 15:21.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL |
| 15:21.59 | furrywolf | s/know/now |
| 15:22.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | however I wholeheartedly agree on the need of a ulimit -X |
| 15:22.27 | figlfdev | you know i watch youtube without hw accel anyway |
| 15:23.02 | furrywolf | I generally don't watch youtube, period. heh. |
| 15:23.08 | furrywolf | and I don't think I have hw accel either... |
| 15:23.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | haha |
| 15:23.29 | figlfdev | then you wont miss it when xephyr disables it |
| 15:23.34 | furrywolf | at least I know I have no 3d hw accel with firefox, because firefox refuses to enable any of it with my intel onboard graphics. |
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| 15:23.54 | figlfdev | DocScrutinizer05: any idea why ci.devuan.org is quiet? |
| 15:23.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | youtube is prolly generally 'safe', it's those nasty knockoffs embedded frequently in commercial websites that don't behave |
| 15:24.12 | figlfdev | someone is trying to gauge devuan activity from that thing, i told them to check out git |
| 15:24.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | nfc what ci.d.o even is |
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| 15:24.27 | figlfdev | i think it builds things with jenkins |
| 15:24.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah, then ask Centurion_Dan and/or nextime |
| 15:24.54 | figlfdev | i would, but theyre quiet too |
| 15:24.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | and/or hellekin, jaromil |
| 15:25.11 | figlfdev | yeah, well feel honored, i lumped you in with them. |
| 15:25.22 | figlfdev | i was like hey, DocScrutinizer05 is here, he will know |
| 15:25.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, I'm absolutely unrelated to devuan :-) |
| 15:25.36 | figlfdev | youre always here |
| 15:25.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | I am, indeed |
| 15:25.45 | figlfdev | close enough |
| 15:25.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 15:26.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry I don't know any useful news |
| 15:26.15 | figlfdev | yeah i think theyre just measuring activity the wrong way |
| 15:26.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | who does? |
| 15:26.35 | figlfdev | ci.devuan.org is only running, afaik, when packages are being built |
| 15:26.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | and what activity? |
| 15:26.51 | figlfdev | well they want to guess when beta2 comes out |
| 15:26.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, makes quite some sense, no? |
| 15:27.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | lol |
| 15:27.11 | figlfdev | this is an outsider view. an insider view would watch mailing list, irc, and git |
| 15:27.18 | figlfdev | afaik. |
| 15:27.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 15:27.27 | figlfdev | so i told them to look at git |
| 15:27.34 | figlfdev | but i thought id ask about ci anyway |
| 15:27.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 15:28.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | let's try some fancy... |
| 15:28.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~wtf ci |
| 15:28.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~dict ci |
| 15:29.03 | figlfdev | ~wtf ci.devuan.org |
| 15:29.13 | figlfdev | ~wtf "ci.devuan.org" |
| 15:29.17 | figlfdev | shrugs |
| 15:29.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | man wtf |
| 15:29.41 | figlfdev | waits for the long version of wtf <foo> |
| 15:29.51 | telst4r | ~wtf <foo> |
| 15:29.56 | figlfdev | doubts it will help |
| 15:29.58 | telst4r | :/ |
| 15:30.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://linux.die.net/man/6/wtf |
| 15:30.44 | figlfdev | this is a string formatting issue |
| 15:30.46 | furrywolf | ~wtf wtf |
| 15:31.15 | figlfdev | ~wtf 'ci.devuan.org' |
| 15:31.31 | figlfdev | yeah, not that interested |
| 15:32.10 | figlfdev | will wait for the string escape upgrade, and then wtf ci.devuan.org |
| 15:33.09 | figlfdev | this place smells like theyre filling the bed of a pickup truck with mac n cheese |
| 15:33.14 | figlfdev | its intoxicating |
| 15:33.42 | furrywolf | ? |
| 15:33.44 | figlfdev | before it smelled like beer and vanilla, i wish theyd rent me a room |
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| 15:34.28 | figlfdev | hi |
| 15:34.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | figlfdev: what's to hard to get in ci.devuan.org not being an item in a generic acronym database |
| 15:34.58 | figlfdev | DocScrutinizer05: its not an acronym im trying to look up, but an address |
| 15:35.10 | figlfdev | but its fine, no big deal |
| 15:35.11 | furrywolf | meh, the list of yardsales on craigslist is dismal today... as a general rule, any yard sale that contains baby items or women's clothes isn't worth even driving by. |
| 15:35.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | and how is wtf suppose3d to help with this? |
| 15:35.22 | furrywolf | only one sounds remotely interesting, since it lists a plasma cutter... |
| 15:35.34 | figlfdev | DocScrutinizer05: i give it strings, it looks them up. really not an unreasonable expectation. |
| 15:35.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | huh? |
| 15:35.48 | figlfdev | like im supposed to know its limitations about fullstops |
| 15:35.59 | figlfdev | all it has to say is "not found" |
| 15:36.04 | figlfdev | but its not important. |
| 15:36.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | an address is no acronym |
| 15:36.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | neither a filename extension |
| 15:36.54 | figlfdev | i think you expect me to know more about the bot than the bot knows about queries |
| 15:37.03 | figlfdev | but im not programmed with that knowledge. |
| 15:37.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | again: man wtf, http://linux.die.net/man/6/wtf |
| 15:37.28 | figlfdev | man wtf indeed... |
| 15:37.39 | figlfdev | ~wtf man wtf |
| 15:37.44 | furrywolf | ~help |
| 15:37.49 | figlfdev | ~makeitstop |
| 15:38.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly now, "man wtf" is OBVIOUSLY no acronym |
| 15:38.10 | figlfdev | kill -9 $(pgrep wtf) |
| 15:38.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | and please |
| 15:38.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~query |
| 15:38.40 | infobot | talk dirty to me! Preferably, do so after you have typed "/query infobot" which should open a new window/tab/whatever with most irc clients. You can talk to me all you like and don't annoy other people with endless queries. Be aware that the stuff you write is logged, so don't get too 1337 :) |
| 15:39.00 | furrywolf | so... you message it with a ~ and it tells you not to use the ~. you message it without a ~, and it ignores you. |
| 15:39.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 15:39.33 | figlfdev | furrywolf: i think its a psyops thing, disguised as a utility |
| 15:39.37 | furrywolf | then math is broken. :) |
| 15:39.40 | furrywolf | ~math 1+1 |
| 15:39.44 | figlfdev | ~wtf math |
| 15:39.53 | figlfdev | i have trouble with it too |
| 15:39.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | MATH IS NO ACRONYM! |
| 15:40.02 | Akuli | ~math 0.1 + 0.2 |
| 15:40.02 | furrywolf | ok, so it ignores anyone expecting it to do math. lol |
| 15:40.14 | Akuli | no floating point errors :( |
| 15:40.29 | figlfdev | ~wtf gnu |
| 15:40.39 | figlfdev | well theres no excuse for that |
| 15:40.41 | DusXMT | ~wtf SaaSS |
| 15:40.44 | Akuli | ~wtf apt |
| 15:40.46 | figlfdev | is it case sensitive? |
| 15:40.50 | Akuli | ~wtf aPt |
| 15:40.53 | Akuli | no |
| 15:41.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | please could you stop spamming the channel with random stuff addressed at infobot? |
| 15:41.04 | Akuli | ~wtf linux |
| 15:41.05 | figlfdev | apt stands for command line interfAce PT |
| 15:41.10 | Akuli | there you go |
| 15:41.15 | Akuli | :) |
| 15:41.28 | figlfdev | Akuli: i have some python for you to condemn |
| 15:41.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | Akuli: linux IS NO ACRONYM |
| 15:41.40 | Akuli | oh right... now i see, gnu is |
| 15:41.46 | figlfdev | LINO is no acronym |
| 15:41.46 | Akuli | Gnu's Not Unix |
| 15:41.53 | figlfdev | sorry, lina |
| 15:42.00 | figlfdev | LINA is no acronym |
| 15:42.03 | Akuli | figlfdev, ok, give me a pastebin :) |
| 15:42.05 | Akuli | paste |
| 15:42.22 | figlfdev | brb |
| 15:42.23 | a64 | bbl |
| 15:42.25 | furrywolf | ~lobotomy |
| 15:42.25 | infobot | I feel different somehow. |
| 15:42.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | and please stop spamming the chan with this |
| 15:42.39 | furrywolf | sees if that helps |
| 15:43.19 | figlfdev | Akuli: https://demo.modernpaste.com/paste/YYKhyRPWq6P5csUaHtYwyxQDRB9BZ42MRHb4Tt8RGHY= |
| 15:44.28 | Akuli | what is it supposed to do |
| 15:44.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | figlfdev: ((well theres no excuse for that)) open a ticket against wtf |
| 15:44.36 | Akuli | looks like a mess so far |
| 15:45.09 | figlfdev | Akuli: its a source-to-source compiler |
| 15:45.22 | figlfdev | and as you say, a mess |
| 15:45.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://linux.die.net/man/6/wtf Author Thomas Sutton (thsutton@utas.edu.au) |
| 15:46.07 | figlfdev | well that explains it |
| 15:46.46 | DusXMT | modernpaste... it sure is modern, by requiring you to have JS to even view a paste... |
| 15:46.54 | figlfdev | yeah im not endorsing it |
| 15:46.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | if in doubt about how bot works, try ~help |
| 15:46.56 | furrywolf | lol |
| 15:47.17 | figlfdev | pastebin wants captcha now, so i just picked something random. ordinarily id research a good one |
| 15:47.32 | figlfdev | also it was already up there |
| 15:47.43 | Akuli | dpaste, ghostbin, paste ofcode, termbin... |
| 15:49.01 | figlfdev | termbin is the best one ive seen here |
| 15:49.10 | figlfdev | i still have to try it |
| 15:49.16 | Akuli | at least very different from the others |
| 15:49.33 | Akuli | most other pastebins work with http posts, termbin works with just a socketserver thing |
| 15:49.49 | figlfdev | more importantly, it works with a simple command on the term |
| 15:49.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~0.1 + 0.2 |
| 15:49.50 | infobot | 0.3 |
| 15:50.06 | Akuli | ~1 / 2 |
| 15:50.06 | infobot | 0.5 |
| 15:50.06 | DusXMT | 0.10.2 |
| 15:50.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh! |
| 15:50.12 | furrywolf | ~1+1 |
| 15:50.13 | infobot | hmm... 1+1 is 3 for large values of 1 |
| 15:50.18 | furrywolf | :P |
| 15:50.20 | figlfdev | fsvo 1 |
| 15:50.27 | Akuli | ~a:=1; a |
| 15:50.31 | figlfdev | youre wicked, DusXMT |
| 15:50.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~part |
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| 15:53.24 | Akuli | ~help |
| 15:53.50 | figlfdev | good query |
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| 15:54.13 | Akuli | the math feature doesn't support variables :) |
| 15:54.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, doesn't |
| 15:54.30 | DusXMT | Akuli: Perhaps they don't support pascal notation? |
| 15:54.40 | Akuli | :) |
| 15:54.43 | figlfdev | pascal notation? |
| 15:54.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | they make no sense in single line expressions without any persistence |
| 15:55.02 | DusXMT | := is assignment in pascal, to differentiate from equivalence = |
| 15:55.12 | Akuli | that := was a guess, i would have tried a plain = next if my internet connection wouldn't be like it is |
| 15:55.18 | Akuli | :) |
| 15:55.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | you want to learn about listkeys (help listkeys) and listvalues |
| 15:56.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway please see |
| 15:56.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~query |
| 15:56.25 | infobot | talk dirty to me! Preferably, do so after you have typed "/query infobot" which should open a new window/tab/whatever with most irc clients. You can talk to me all you like and don't annoy other people with endless queries. Be aware that the stuff you write is logged, so don't get too 1337 :) |
| 15:57.07 | furrywolf | I like bots that just pass math on to bc. I've been banned from most of them. :) |
| 15:58.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | is this an inquiry? |
| 15:58.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | err request |
| 15:58.39 | furrywolf | lol |
| 15:59.07 | figlfdev | furrywolf: you probably pipe non-euclidian topography formulas to it |
| 15:59.08 | furrywolf | I usually test them with math scale=100000;a(1) |
| 15:59.42 | furrywolf | it quickly determines who put a timeout on how long external programs are allowed to take. |
| 15:59.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm absolutely sure this doesn't compue in infobot |
| 16:01.06 | furrywolf | bbl, time to get ready for doing non-irc things with my day |
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| 17:41.27 | tmyklebu | furrywolf: holy shit. what does bc do for arctan? |
| 17:50.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | furrywolf: a(1) ? |
| 17:50.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | function a() bot defined |
| 17:50.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | not* |
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| 17:55.50 | tmyklebu | DocScrutinizer05: bc -l |
| 17:56.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh |
| 17:56.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | ta |
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| 18:30.55 | DusXMT | KatolaZ: I know it was a long time ago, but remember when you said (3rd of June) that the PowerPC G4 (7450, clocked at 500MHz) would be faster than a Pentium 3, clocked at 900MHz? I was kinda hoping for the same, but it seems to be a bit slower; it's particularly noticable during web browsing (even though it has twice as much ram, 1GB compared to 512MB), and the OpenSSL benchmark seems to suggest that it's |
| 18:31.01 | DusXMT | slower as well... |
| 18:31.12 | DusXMT | P3: https://dpaste.de/F3Lb PPC: https://dpaste.de/DG6d |
| 18:32.57 | DusXMT | So yeah, it seems that a 400MHz still does make a difference. Though there's no question that if they were on the same clock speed, the PowerPC would've won no problem |
| 18:33.13 | DusXMT | s/MHz/MHz difference/ |
| 18:34.12 | Akuli | DusXMT, do you know how to install devuan on a powerpc? |
| 18:34.29 | DusXMT | Akuli: I don't think we have a PPC port |
| 18:34.39 | DusXMT | uses Gentoo on his PowerBook G4 |
| 18:35.18 | Akuli | i'm currently running ubuntu 12.04 on my g3 |
| 18:35.32 | Akuli | with 256MB of ram :D |
| 18:35.57 | DusXMT | Akuli: Nice =3 A laptop, or a desktop? |
| 18:36.04 | Akuli | desktop |
| 18:36.18 | Akuli | well, not running right now but thats what i havew |
| 18:36.27 | Akuli | s/havew/have/g |
| 18:40.57 | DusXMT | Akuli: Theorethically, you could install debian and switch to sysvinit, I think it still works, you'll just have to put up with libsystemd0 dependencies |
| 18:43.19 | DusXMT | But at the same time, new versions of GNU/Linux have problems with the graphics hardware, eg. I had to use the kernel-based radeonfb driver and the X fbdev driver on top of it to get X working on this laptop, which implies no acceleration (it's just a frame buffer) which means no video scaling, no dynamic resizing of the screen, and I can't use an external monitor. But at least the screen is surprisingly ni |
| 18:43.25 | DusXMT | ce |
| 18:44.57 | DusXMT | If I tried to use the "proper" driver, ie. the DRM/KMS driver, the laptop screen would be detected, but no data would be displayed on it (but I could use an external monitor), and after a short while of using X, it would start blinking as the whole system froze |
| 18:52.40 | DusXMT | (and no, DRM doesn't stand for Digital Restriction Management in this case, but Direct Rendering Manager) |
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| 20:35.34 | furrywolf | tmyklebu: bc computes its functions to however many digits you ask for with the scale= paramter. |
| 20:36.01 | furrywolf | bbl |
| 20:36.13 | Akuli | we're still talking about bc :D |
| 20:37.33 | tmyklebu | furrywolf: yes, i'm aware. |
| 20:38.36 | tmyklebu | furrywolf: what algorithm does it use for arctan, though? there are algorithms that aren't too hard to implement that scale well (O(n log^2 n) with a very modest constant for n digits) for computing the arctangent. |
| 20:38.56 | tmyklebu | furrywolf: how the eff did they make it take 17 seconds on my machine to compute 5000 digits of arctan(1)? |
| 20:39.18 | furrywolf | my guess is they implement it using one of the infinite series methods |
| 20:40.14 | furrywolf | don't forget there's an O(n) or worse factor based on the scale paramter as well. in non-theoretical math, it takes longer to do math on longer numbers. :) |
| 20:42.09 | furrywolf | and then you end up with a n^2 term... |
| 20:46.56 | furrywolf | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:46.57 | furrywolf | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:46.57 | furrywolf | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:46.57 | furrywolf | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:46.57 | furrywolf | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:46.57 | furrywolf | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:46.57 | furrywolf | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:46.58 | furrywolf | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:46.58 | furrywolf | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:48.01 | furrywolf | it's implemented in bc's language, so there's interpretation speed too |
| 20:48.28 | furrywolf | libmath.b in the source |
| 20:51.21 | furrywolf | the internal math might have O(m*n) for multiplication and division |
| 20:51.51 | furrywolf | or worse, of course. :) |
| 20:51.52 | furrywolf | bbl |
| 21:02.45 | tmyklebu | furrywolf: oh christ. |
| 21:02.58 | tmyklebu | furrywolf: so the infinite series methods are *fast* when you implement them right. |
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| 22:21.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | any hint why friggin sudo doesn't seem to understand #includedir ? jr@saturn:~> sudo --version Sudo-Version 1.8.10p3 Sudoers Policy-Plugin Version 1.8.10p3 Sudoers-Datei Grammatik-Version 43 |
| 22:21.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | OpenSuse |
| 22:24.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooooh nevermind, I should RTFM |
| 22:25.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>sudo will read each file in /etc/sudoers.d, skipping file names that end in â~â or **_contain_ a â.â character** to avoid causing problems with package manager or editor temporary/backup files.<< |
| 22:29.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | freakin maemo!! http://paste.opensuse.org/76076313 |
| 22:32.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/97237058 |
| 22:40.15 | Leander256 | I really hate sudo, but I've never been to point out exactly why |
| 22:40.23 | Leander256 | *been able |
| 22:41.15 | NeonLicht | You need to use doas instead, Leander256. |
| 22:42.37 | Leander256 | I didn't know about it, I just googled it |
| 22:42.42 | Leander256 | I could give it a try, indeed |
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| 22:43.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | I hated sudo for quite a while, until I learned about the details |
| 22:43.34 | NeonLicht | I didn't know about 'google', I just duckduckgoed it. |
| 22:44.27 | Leander256 | I think that my main grudge is spending my whole time prefixing sudo to everything |
| 22:44.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually meanwhile I think sudo isn't all that bad, just usually terribly configured and abused |
| 22:45.06 | Leander256 | if I'm going to work on something that requires a lot of root intervention, I can just su - |
| 22:45.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 22:45.28 | NeonLicht | You could always do 'sudo su', Leander256. |
| 22:45.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | that however doesn't apply for scripting |
| 22:45.50 | Leander256 | NeonLicht yes that's how I trick sudo on ubuntu, otherwise I can't su |
| 22:46.47 | Leander256 | yes, I understand that something might be necessary for running scripts, but the over-reliance on sudo is puzzling me |
| 22:46.53 | Chanku | normally just uses su and then does what I need too as root, and then exits :| |
| 22:47.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | properly used, sudo is rather the fix for suid not working on shellscripts |
| 22:47.33 | Leander256 | and let's not talk about visudo... "oh you're so dumb you're going to mess up the config file so use this special mandatory editor" |
| 22:48.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | given sudo blows chunks completely on first minor syntax error on sudoers file, it's justified ;-) |
| 22:49.06 | Leander256 | I think it tennds to be infantilizing |
| 22:49.53 | Leander256 | but I think it's only a problem on ubuntu where by default you can't login as root to fix it |
| 22:50.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | or on any system that actually relies on sudo during system init |
| 22:51.08 | Leander256 | do you have examples of that? |
| 22:51.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | when the system bootloops, not even a working su - would help you out |
| 22:51.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, maemo |
| 22:52.33 | Leander256 | what's the rationale behind that? security? |
| 22:52.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | err |
| 22:52.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | what's the alternative? |
| 22:53.20 | Leander256 | alternative would be to start processes as root and drop privileges? |
| 22:53.48 | Leander256 | which is, I guess, how it's been done since the beginning |
| 22:54.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | and whatg about the processes that need to get started as root out of a non-root session? e.g. during X11 session startup |
| 22:54.41 | NeonLicht | Since the Big bang privileges have been droped all the time, yes. |
| 22:55.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | sudo is not for *dropping* privileges |
| 22:56.21 | Leander256 | I'm sure my X sessions never needed sudo to start, I must be missing something |
| 22:56.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, you're missing to understand what's maemo |
| 22:57.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# su --help |
| 22:57.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | BusyBox v1.10.2 (Debian 3:1.10.2.legal-1osso31+0cssu0) multi-call binary |
| 22:57.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | Usage: su [OPTION]... [-] [username] |
| 22:58.15 | Leander256 | maemo is the OS for the nokia phones, right? |
| 22:58.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 22:58.28 | MinceR | was |
| 22:58.36 | MinceR | then the Elopocalypse came |
| 22:58.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's a high level definition |
| 22:58.47 | MinceR | fast forward to today, and nokia is dead |
| 22:59.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | maemo is alive |
| 23:05.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | (what's maemo? use su instead) to give you an idea: http://paste.opensuse.org/57696706 |
| 23:06.15 | MinceR | weird |
| 23:06.39 | MinceR | did maemo ship with gainroot? |
| 23:06.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | and no, setting messybox suid is a *very* bad idea |
| 23:07.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, you need to install it ;-) |
| 23:07.11 | MinceR | :) |
| 23:07.20 | MinceR | sounds like using busybox for su is a bad idea |
| 23:07.33 | MinceR | hm, i guess not so much if you want to use it as root |
| 23:07.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | via HAM (aka Hildon App Manager) which is a process that needs root permissions but is started as a child of a user:user X11 session |
| 23:11.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway to turn HAM into something sane, you want to ask for root password when starting it. Otherwise you can root the device with a simple installation of package rootsh that gives you gainroot |
| 23:11.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | and for that a newer sudo would be highly welcome |
| 23:11.54 | MinceR | :) |
| 23:12.01 | MinceR | why is maemo so weird? |
| 23:12.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, prolly because it was designed to fit into a small embedded system |
| 23:12.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | however why they used messybox is beyond me |
| 23:13.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | decent core-utils would've been way better |
| 23:14.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~messybox |
| 23:14.05 | infobot | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd, nice, ps, diff as used by mc...) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils |
| 23:15.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think they dropped messybox already with harmattan (N9) |
| 23:16.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | maemo init uses /sbin/preinit shell script as pid1 |
| 23:18.49 | Leander256 | ah ok I understand the problem |
| 23:20.05 | Leander256 | but yes, busybox... I would definitely reserve its use for low-resource device fixing, not for day-to-day operation |
| 23:27.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | for the shits n' giggles: http://paste.opensuse.org/61552003 |
| 23:27.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | note the copyright |
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| 23:32.21 | MinceR | ew, nonfree |
| 23:51.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, see https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12228 |