| 00:00.48 | golinux | either time. Now have 3.32 gb in ext2 |
| 00:03.00 | golinux | Do I have to mount it manually? |
| 00:03.10 | golinux | brb |
| 00:08.40 | robert-e | golinux: just got back in here...yes you need to mount it manually. Use the green "flash drive" symbol at the top of the page. The other one next to it does unmounting. |
| 00:10.57 | robert-e | Or you could use gparted to mount it. I wonder if that might be the problem...maybe the "manual" mount does not really work. I will have to try that using gparted to mount. |
| 00:12.15 | robert-e | On turther thought, that is not the problem, because I used geany to look at the persistance.conf file, so it had to be mounted correctly. |
| 00:12.43 | golinux | There was no option to mount in gparted. |
| 00:13.21 | robert-e | or maybe it is mounting read only..I should try a "save' in geany. |
| 00:13.40 | golinux | is in a bit over her head |
| 00:14.49 | robert-e | golinux: okay...time for food now..Linda made bbq chicken on the grill, and if I don't present myself shortly, their will be dark looks coming my way. LOL |
| 00:14.58 | golinux | I find it very hard to maneuver in refracta's default environment w/o my launchers and panel and ff profile |
| 00:15.24 | golinux | fsr must be eating too |
| 00:15.33 | robert-e | bbl |
| 00:15.37 | golinux | later |
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| 00:26.39 | fsmithred | I'm reading now |
| 00:27.01 | fsmithred | not eating yet, still cooking |
| 00:28.49 | fsmithred | golinux, robert-e: you do not mount the persistent partition when you boot rw |
| 00:29.09 | fsmithred | live-boot mounts it for you |
| 00:29.34 | fsmithred | just boot rw, then delete S03vdev |
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| 00:32.32 | golinux | And deleting that mounts the drive? |
| 00:32.55 | golinux | uis cooking too and burning a dvd |
| 00:36.19 | fsmithred | you're just deleting one file, actually one symlink |
| 00:37.10 | fsmithred | ok, don't burn your food or cook your DVD. |
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| 00:52.55 | robert-e | fsmithred: Back..the chicken was really good.lol..Okay, I rebooted in vdev (rw) mode, copied the persistance.conf to another stick..shutdown and rebooted. Started gparted, formated the persistance partition |
| 00:55.18 | robert-e | to fat32. rebooted to vdev (rw). Used gparted to make sure it was again mounted. copied the persistance file back to make doubly sure it was mount rw...it was... |
| 00:56.02 | *** join/#devuan reetspetit (~john@194.149.220.77) |
| 00:56.49 | fsmithred | no, make it ext2,3 or 4 |
| 00:56.53 | robert-e | deleted the S03vdev file, took the opertunity to set the display to something easier to read. Shutdown completely and rebooted, and the display was default, as well the S03vdev file was back. |
| 00:56.53 | fsmithred | linux partition |
| 00:57.25 | fsmithred | I just re-imaged a stick to test |
| 00:57.37 | robert-e | No did not change the partition type, just reformated it to fat32. |
| 00:58.06 | fsmithred | no |
| 00:58.19 | fsmithred | second partition should be ext |
| 00:58.53 | robert-e | ok I see...well I will do it over again. to make sure. |
| 00:59.03 | robert-e | back in 5 minutes. |
| 00:59.27 | fsmithred | ok |
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| 01:30.08 | fsmithred | wb robert-e |
| 01:30.57 | robert-e | fsmithred: Did it all from scratch, and no change. I found the same thing as golinux..ie, I could not mount the persistance partition in gparted...but it would mount with the pmount tool. Odd. |
| 01:31.34 | fsmithred | ok, start over again |
| 01:31.39 | fsmithred | forget about resizing the partition |
| 01:31.49 | fsmithred | 1.re-image the stick |
| 01:32.03 | fsmithred | 2. boot into vdev-rw |
| 01:32.21 | robert-e | I also noted that I could not copy the persistance.conf file back from the spare stick, as user, needed to be root to do that. But when all the dust was settled, the rcS.d vdev file was back in all its glory. |
| 01:32.29 | fsmithred | 3. sudo rm /etc/rcS.d/S03vdev |
| 01:32.45 | fsmithred | 4. sudo reboot, and boot vdev-rw again. |
| 01:32.48 | fsmithred | do nothing else |
| 01:32.55 | robert-e | ok will do |
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| 01:41.34 | fsmithred | ? |
| 01:41.50 | golinux | is waiting too |
| 01:41.52 | robert-e | fsmithred: booting now |
| 01:44.25 | robert-e | rebooting |
| 01:46.58 | robert-e | fsmithred: sorry, but the S03vdev file is back in rcS.d. And just to make sure, I did it all on another laptop. |
| 01:49.27 | fsmithred | hang on |
| 01:50.25 | robert-e | fsmithred: sure, no rush..got nothing going on all evening here. I should be up for another 4 hours. |
| 01:50.54 | fsmithred | tell me exactly what you did |
| 01:51.09 | fsmithred | 'cause I've done it here at least four times, and it works |
| 01:51.52 | robert-e | I followed your direction exactly. No more and no less. I dont usually use sudo, but this time I did that as well. |
| 01:52.08 | fsmithred | ok, and you didn't try to mount anything, right? |
| 01:52.17 | robert-e | Maybe I should download another image? |
| 01:52.33 | fsmithred | you just booted vdev-rw, deleted one file, rebooted vdev-rw |
| 01:52.57 | robert-e | Yes, I did not even open a file browser. |
| 01:53.15 | fsmithred | um, are you using usb-3 by any chance? |
| 01:53.24 | robert-e | I tried it on an hp laptop and on a thinkpad |
| 01:53.41 | fsmithred | check md5sum on the img file |
| 01:53.52 | robert-e | No..these machines are not new enough for usb3 |
| 01:54.14 | fsmithred | ok, I've never gotten a live usb to boot with usb-3 |
| 01:54.30 | robert-e | I think I did that when I d/l the image. |
| 01:54.40 | fsmithred | I think so, too. |
| 01:55.26 | fsmithred | try creating a file while in rw |
| 01:55.31 | robert-e | Other than the persistance thing, it works really well, and quite fast. |
| 01:55.43 | fsmithred | save it in your home, see if it's there after reboot |
| 01:55.51 | fsmithred | really? |
| 01:56.21 | fsmithred | and you could use udev-rw instead. It shouldn't matter. |
| 01:56.26 | fsmithred | faster |
| 01:57.17 | fsmithred | live usb is usually fast enough for use. Not like a live CD. |
| 01:57.24 | robert-e | Yes, I normally alternate between wheezy, and a mint 17.1 with most of the mint removed, and ubuntu software substuted. Trying to get the best of both os. |
| 01:59.15 | robert-e | I have an ssd drive waiting on devuan. devuan is on it now, but I will replace that with yours if this works out. |
| 02:02.19 | robert-e | saning test file now in home, and will reboot |
| 02:02.35 | robert-e | saving |
| 02:03.05 | fsmithred | bb in 2 min |
| 02:05.07 | robert-e | fsmithred: Nope..file is gone after reboot with vdev (rw) |
| 02:07.46 | fsmithred | wow |
| 02:07.46 | golinux | :( |
| 02:08.37 | golinux | I will try too but don't want to miss robert's adventures |
| 02:09.06 | fsmithred | I'm gonna show you my df -h output |
| 02:09.30 | robert-e | golinux: Heh..I was just going to suggest that you try it, if for nothing else but to save what little remaining hair I have left. lol |
| 02:10.40 | golinux | Let's let fsr choreograph the show |
| 02:10.41 | fsmithred | I need to log in here from the laptop |
| 02:10.48 | fsmithred | 1 min |
| 02:11.59 | *** join/#devuan vdev-user (~user@68-184-46-18.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) |
| 02:13.28 | vdev-user | I'm gonna spam the channel with about 8 lines; I left out some tmpfs that aren't relevant. golinux robert-e |
| 02:13.34 | vdev-user | user@r8-vdev-test:~$ df -h |
| 02:13.34 | vdev-user | Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on |
| 02:13.34 | vdev-user | aufs 969M 14M 906M 2% / |
| 02:13.34 | vdev-user | tmpfs 202M 9.8M 192M 5% /run |
| 02:13.43 | vdev-user | tmpfs 1008M 0 1008M 0% /lib/live/mount/overlay |
| 02:13.59 | vdev-user | wait, that's not right |
| 02:14.48 | robert-e | fsmithred: usind the thinkpad...oh yes email hr is ve5agbob at gmail dot com |
| 02:15.27 | vdev-user | - user@r8-vdev-test:~$ df -h |
| 02:15.27 | vdev-user | Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on |
| 02:15.27 | vdev-user | aufs 969M 14M 906M 2% / |
| 02:15.27 | vdev-user | tmpfs 202M 9.8M 192M 5% /run |
| 02:15.33 | vdev-user | tmpfs 1008M 0 1008M 0% /lib/live/mount/overlay |
| 02:15.40 | vdev-user | shit, sorry |
| 02:16.11 | robert-e | no prob...take ur time |
| 02:16.17 | vdev-user | they start with slashes |
| 02:16.44 | vdev-user | sdb1 839M 753M 86M 90% /lib/live/mount/persistence/sdb1 |
| 02:17.10 | vdev-user | both partitions should be mounted on /lib/live/mount/persistence/ |
| 02:17.45 | vdev-user | plus a loop mount for the squashfs |
| 02:18.38 | vdev-user | if you see /lib/live/mount/medium/ you're in read-only mode |
| 02:22.24 | fsmithred | I just emailed you my df output |
| 02:30.30 | golinux | I'm gonna let you two work it out. I need a break. |
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| 02:38.05 | robert-e | back..conection timed outhere. |
| 02:38.23 | notjeff | halp, I have installed devuan minimal, and managed to connect to interwebs via command line... but... |
| 02:39.25 | fsmithred | don't keep us in suspense |
| 02:39.30 | notjeff | I have to run wpa_supplicant and dhclient as root, how to run as regular user? |
| 02:40.41 | fsmithred | one way to do it would be to give your user sudo privs with no password for those commands |
| 02:41.44 | robert-e | wicd works, and I hear simple-net-aid works as well, but I have not tried that yet. |
| 02:42.17 | fsmithred | the minimal iso has no xorg |
| 02:42.34 | fsmithred | notjeff, you want to stay with command-line only? |
| 02:44.47 | notjeff | Google has failed me.. |
| 02:45.42 | fsmithred | is sudo installed in that? |
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| 02:46.00 | fsmithred | notjeff, is sudo installed in the mini? |
| 02:47.13 | notjeff | hehe, I was just about to write that if anyone brought up sudo I would hunt them down and rip out their toungue. |
| 02:48.12 | fsmithred | notjeff ALL= NOPASSWD: /sbin/wpa_cli, /sbin/dhclient |
| 02:48.15 | robert-e | Does not wicd have a tui mode? |
| 02:48.27 | fsmithred | yeah, there's a wicd-cli |
| 02:48.34 | fsmithred | and wicd-curses |
| 02:49.16 | robert-e | wicd connects automatically once I set it up in /network and in wicd. |
| 02:50.47 | robert-e | IIRC, I needed to set the wpa passwords in network |
| 02:52.06 | robert-e | fsmithred: Gg to take a few mins out to make a pot of coffee. bbl |
| 02:52.15 | fsmithred | ok |
| 02:55.02 | notjeff | fsmithred: where to put ALL=stuff |
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| 02:55.32 | fsmithred | one line, you should make a new file in /etc/sudoers.d/ |
| 02:55.52 | fsmithred | can call it user_net or something |
| 02:56.27 | fsmithred | then log out and log in again, and it should work |
| 02:56.52 | fsmithred | might want to add /sbin/halt and /sbin/reboot to that, too. |
| 02:57.04 | notjeff | Oh, ya I think I'd rather use wicd than sudo. |
| 02:58.02 | notjeff | I've used wicd-curses before, might give the cli a try. |
| 03:00.52 | notjeff | I thought I could just add myself to some group. I'm already in the netdev group, but apparently that has nothing to do with wifi. |
| 03:01.17 | fsmithred | those commands are owned by root:root, so no special group to join |
| 03:01.19 | robert-e | perking :) |
| 03:04.01 | notjeff | Why are regular users allowed to use wicd, network-manager and the like, but not these tools? |
| 03:04.34 | fsmithred | I don't know how they do it |
| 03:06.33 | notjeff | Ok well I'll just use wicd-***. Thanks guys/girls. Probably see ya'll later. |
| 03:07.53 | fsmithred | robert-e, did the df output match what you see? |
| 03:19.32 | robert-e | fsmithred: no mine has nothing about persistance in it. |
| 03:20.31 | fsmithred | the second partition still has a label? live-rw |
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| 03:21.28 | robert-e | fsmithred: and after I posted mine for you, hexchat timed out and I lost all the scroll plus, botbot is not recording anymore. |
| 03:21.58 | fsmithred | can you put it in email reply? |
| 03:22.51 | robert-e | sure..I gave you my address (above) but here it is again.... ve5agbob at gmail dot com |
| 03:23.08 | fsmithred | yeah, all you need to do is reply to the email I sent you |
| 03:23.25 | robert-e | send me something and I will have yours...meanwhile I will get the file again from the thinkpad |
| 03:23.39 | fsmithred | run blkid to check the label on partition 2 |
| 03:23.50 | robert-e | ok |
| 03:29.55 | robert-e | fsmithred: file returned |
| 03:31.31 | fsmithred | got it |
| 03:31.46 | fsmithred | what's 'cat /proc/cmdline' say? |
| 03:36.34 | robert-e | minute |
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| 03:42.31 | robert-e | fsmithred..reply sent |
| 03:43.29 | fsmithred | ok, I'm stumped. Everything looks right. It should work. |
| 03:44.59 | robert-e | I am downooading a new image file..and will try that..am at wits end here.. occams razor...check the simple things first. |
| 03:47.29 | robert-e | fsmithred: think am gg to pour a stiff shot of Lambs. |
| 03:49.58 | fsmithred | lol |
| 03:50.19 | fsmithred | what time zone are you in? |
| 03:50.36 | robert-e | fsmithred: centrol...saskatchewan canada |
| 03:51.07 | fsmithred | ok, you're just an hour behind me. You're allowed to drink now. |
| 03:52.04 | robert-e | download is slow..wife is watching some funnys on her computer. Heh...Im retired for over 12 years...no one would dare to tell me not to imbibe lol |
| 03:53.05 | robert-e | even my son who is around 30 yrs old, does not dare. |
| 03:53.56 | robert-e | I used to be a teacher (physics) and still have the "stealy eye" ... |
| 03:54.20 | fsmithred | lol |
| 03:54.29 | robert-e | I had fun |
| 03:54.46 | fsmithred | omg, I lived with a first grade teacher for a while, and she showed me the stare. |
| 03:55.24 | fsmithred | it was a powerful look. would stop anyone in their tracks. |
| 03:55.35 | robert-e | fsmithred: Anyways, I will make a new img on a stick, and play around more tonight, and let you know how I make out tomorrow morning. |
| 03:56.00 | robert-e | Oh yes..I stand in awe of grade one teachers...they are an entity unto themselves. |
| 03:56.10 | fsmithred | ok, md5sum file is at a different location - |
| 03:56.28 | robert-e | mds5sum...I know..I still have it. |
| 03:56.34 | fsmithred | ok |
| 03:56.56 | robert-e | Have a nice night, what is left of it, and thanks for all your attention. |
| 03:57.04 | fsmithred | you too. I'm going to sleep. |
| 03:57.08 | fsmithred | see you later. |
| 03:57.09 | robert-e | gn |
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| 04:24.11 | golinux | rrq: fsmithred: Finally remembered to run the lsusb command: |
| 04:24.36 | golinux | user@r8-vdev-test:~$ lsusb -v | grep -E 'Bus|bdevice' |
| 04:24.36 | golinux | unable to initialize libusb: -99 |
| 04:38.53 | rrq | try as root |
| 04:39.20 | golinux | Actually I just discovered I had unplugged th usb. Let me try again |
| 04:44.10 | golinux | Same for root. And I had just printed a page so I know it's working |
| 04:45.13 | golinux | rrq: ^^^ |
| 04:46.29 | rrq | hmmm this is new thin patch of ice for me; apparently lsusb needs soem /dev support .. |
| 04:48.07 | golinux | Want me to run anything else? |
| 04:48.29 | golinux | If not. I'm going to try booting with persistence again. |
| 04:49.06 | golinux | You can leave a msg here and I'll check the logs when I get back. |
| 04:49.59 | rrq | ok |
| 05:01.47 | rrq | afaict "unable to initialize libusb: -99" is the expected output by lsusb when there are no usb devices at all on the system. Including no hubs. |
| 05:03.26 | rrq | I found a discussion thread http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-usb/msg54913.html from Nov 2011 about this |
| 05:04.19 | rrq | perhaps lsusb actually relies on /dev paths rather than /sys paths ?? |
| 05:04.51 | rrq | (and /dev paths are missing of vdev misbehaves) |
| 05:09.22 | rrq | golinux: is /sys/bus/usb/devices empty? |
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| 05:27.35 | golinux | rrq: There is no usb directory in /sys/bus/ |
| 05:28.19 | golinux | :( That's from a quick look via qemu not booted off of usb |
| 05:32.09 | golinux | rrq: I'm done for the night |
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| 06:06.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | (lsusb) Pali told me a year+ ago that lsusb doesn't build anymore without systemd |
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| 06:08.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc since it depends on stuff introduced into udev that's only available via systemd |
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| 06:14.02 | rrq | I have lsusb .. on Devuan; no systemd (?) |
| 06:14.27 | rrq | golinux doesn't have any usb according to kernel |
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| 06:15.06 | rrq | doesn't explain the (usb) printer working |
| 06:15.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2016-01-05.log.html#t2016-01-05T00:36:53 |
| 06:18.16 | rrq | interesingly I have: lsusb (usbutils) 007 .. no systemd afai am aware |
| 06:19.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think Pali explained it's related to /dev/usb | /proc/usb |
| 06:21.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | which probably doesn't get created on systemd systems when you simply neuter systemd |
| 06:21.48 | rrq | yes: it looks for /dev/bus/usb which udev creates from /sys/bus/usb |
| 06:22.10 | rrq | and vdev as well |
| 06:22.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | strace is your friend |
| 06:23.41 | rrq | lsusb also tries /proc/bus/usb apparently |
| 06:24.22 | rrq | maybe that's what "usbfs" would provide? |
| 06:24.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
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| 06:24.53 | rrq | feels like many cooks in this soup :-) |
| 06:25.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | a total mess |
| 06:25.37 | rrq | I thought /sys/bus/usb was an "original" point provided by the kernel |
| 06:25.53 | rrq | the other derived/reconstructed from there |
| 06:26.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | kernel devels constantly 'improving' API in /sys et al doesn't help either |
| 06:27.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | then you got that "unique persistent device names" shit too |
| 06:29.07 | rrq | yes... looks like change for the sake of it to me |
| 06:29.20 | rrq | bbl |
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| 08:20.49 | rrq | golinux: I might not understand your setup. At a guess, you are running/testing on a qemu client, but overlooked the need to bind host usb ports to it, for it to experience usb events? |
| 08:21.36 | rrq | (sleeping now of course:-)) |
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| 08:34.16 | fsmithred | rrq, golinux was testing a live usb made from an image I made. Both she and robert-e are getting some strange problems that I'm not getting . |
| 08:34.54 | fsmithred | goes to make coffee |
| 08:40.56 | rrq | yeah I tried your r8_i386 without (those) problems.. I'm happy to try.. if you remind me about the URL |
| 08:41.25 | rrq | it'll be a qemu though |
| 08:51.25 | fsmithred | you might want to download it in a VM, this website is terrible - http://www.filedropper.com/r8i386vdevusb-hdd |
| 08:51.26 | *** join/#devuan rrq (~ralph@60-242-139-200.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 08:51.49 | fsmithred | must allow javascript and cookies to download |
| 08:51.56 | fsmithred | wash your hands when you're done! |
| 08:54.30 | fsmithred | rrq - directions for use: https://sourceforge.net/projects/refracta/files/experimental/vdev_usb_instructions.txt/download |
| 08:57.35 | fsmithred | rrq, I get the same error as golinux: Unable to initialize lsusb: -99 |
| 08:57.50 | fsmithred | I guess that's because there's no usb - I'm booting in qemu. |
| 08:58.12 | fsmithred | sory, unable... libusb |
| 09:01.37 | *** join/#devuan neutron_stz (~Icedove@95-43-92-79.ip.btc-net.bg) |
| 09:03.31 | rrq | using qemu? |
| 09:05.52 | rrq | the usb story with qemu is a couple of pages |
| 09:06.33 | rrq | far from "not doable" but a fair bit of this and that |
| 09:08.05 | fsmithred | yeah, the image is meant to be put on a thumb drive |
| 09:08.46 | fsmithred | vdev seems to automount additional partitions on the thumb drive when you boot from usb |
| 09:10.22 | rrq | I wouldn't think vdev does any mounting??? |
| 09:11.27 | fsmithred | well, normally, when I boot a live usb, only the first partition gets mounted, plus a persistent partition if 'persistence' is in the boot command. |
| 09:12.01 | fsmithred | they both get mounted at /lib/live/mount/persistence/ |
| 09:12.30 | fsmithred | if there's a third partition, it doesn't get mounted. |
| 09:12.55 | fsmithred | booting with vdev, extra partitions are mounted at /media |
| 09:14.15 | fsmithred | robert showed me output of df when he tried booting with persistence, first partition was mounted at /lib/live/mount/ |
| 09:14.29 | fsmithred | That'w where first part gets mounted when booting read-only |
| 09:14.47 | fsmithred | yet the boot command was for persistence, and sdb2 was mounted under /media |
| 09:15.26 | fsmithred | I'm wondering if his problem was that the partition was getting mounted at /medium before live-boot had a chance to mount it at persistence/ |
| 09:18.50 | fsmithred | that should have said /media not /medium |
| 09:20.44 | rrq | is booting old img as usbdevice on qemu ... veeery slow |
| 09:21.40 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 09:22.27 | rrq | I cheated before, and put the img as disk... fast boot and happy running |
| 09:23.46 | fsmithred | I'm not getting the extra mounts now |
| 09:24.17 | fsmithred | I know I saw it. I think it was when I booted from hard drive and had a usb plugged in. |
| 09:24.28 | fsmithred | will try that |
| 09:25.57 | rrq | maybe I should write it to an actual USB and forward the port instead... though I'd need to learn how. |
| 09:26.19 | fsmithred | forward what port? |
| 09:26.30 | rrq | a host USB port |
| 09:26.41 | fsmithred | oh |
| 09:26.44 | fsmithred | um |
| 09:26.57 | fsmithred | why not just boot from real usb? |
| 09:27.21 | rrq | I'm trialing it on qemu |
| 09:27.47 | fsmithred | ok |
| 09:27.57 | rrq | now it's starting |
| 09:28.12 | fsmithred | there is one problem with that image - I forgot to delete S03vdev |
| 09:29.02 | fsmithred | there's a way around it, but it requires booting with persistence, and so far, I'm the only one who's been able do that. |
| 09:29.28 | fsmithred | and I'm not seeing the extra mounts when I boot from hard drive |
| 09:30.50 | rrq | ok: it mount sdb1 on /lib/live/mount/medium |
| 09:31.24 | fsmithred | you picked the first entry in the boot menu? |
| 09:31.30 | rrq | yes |
| 09:31.35 | fsmithred | ok, that's right |
| 09:32.03 | fsmithred | not sure what happens in qemu if you pick the third or fourth entry - those are for persistence |
| 09:32.28 | fsmithred | should be two partitions mounted under /lib/live/mount/persistence |
| 09:32.37 | rrq | no other sbd mount apart from the loop |
| 09:33.08 | rrq | ok; I'll try vdev+rw ... it took about 3 minutes to load from the usbdevice :-) |
| 09:33.33 | rrq | got something urgent .. bakc in 30min |
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| 10:24.02 | rrq | ok. booted vdev-rw. mounts look the same |
| 10:26.20 | rrq | note: this is the old image. I've just got the new... I'll try it instead. |
| 10:42.01 | fsmithred | rrq, if you're using the hdd-img file, there is no new image. |
| 10:42.31 | fsmithred | well, there is, but I'm pretty sure I didn't upload it. |
| 10:43.45 | rrq | ah right they do have the same size. but the new is pristine at least; the other one had been booted as hdb |
| 10:44.44 | rrq | hmm I just got a sector read error?? |
| 10:45.08 | fsmithred | check md5sum? |
| 10:45.13 | rrq | but it boots |
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| 10:45.47 | rrq | d99aef793cd252de4a06dbc615949692 |
| 10:46.11 | fsmithred | d99aef793cd252de4a06dbc615949692 |
| 10:46.19 | fsmithred | ok |
| 10:46.48 | fsmithred | hdb? What kernel are you using? |
| 10:48.29 | rrq | yeah maybe it was called something else but as harddisk rather than usbdevice |
| 10:49.14 | rrq | it must have been sdb then as well |
| 10:52.22 | fsmithred | is it still booting without persistence? |
| 10:52.58 | rrq | mounts as before. what do I look for? |
| 10:53.27 | fsmithred | df should show two partitions mounted under /lib/live/mount/persistence |
| 10:53.40 | fsmithred | Not under /lib/live/mount/medium/ |
| 10:53.54 | rrq | nope. but /proc/cmdline suggests persistence |
| 10:54.05 | fsmithred | same happened to robert |
| 10:54.36 | fsmithred | I think we should give up with that image |
| 10:55.16 | rrq | fair enough. blkid says /dev/sdb2 is labelled live-rw |
| 10:55.28 | fsmithred | correct |
| 10:56.04 | fsmithred | when roommate gets up I can get the admin password to his router and set up port forwarding |
| 10:56.24 | fsmithred | and I can give you a url to wget the new image |
| 10:56.43 | fsmithred | maybe in a couple hours |
| 10:57.32 | rrq | or I can give you an ssh login on my tv and you can scp it |
| 10:57.41 | fsmithred | there's also an iso image at the sourceforge site, but that won't give you persistence, so it's only good for looking - no changes |
| 10:57.52 | fsmithred | yeah, that works. I do sftp all the time. |
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| 10:58.24 | fsmithred | also, you and aitor should compare notes |
| 10:58.44 | rrq | you can email me your pub key? |
| 10:58.58 | fsmithred | my gpg key? |
| 10:59.22 | fsmithred | oh, sorry. not fully awake |
| 10:59.29 | fsmithred | yeah, I'll send ssh pub key |
| 11:04.38 | Centurion_Dan | fsmithred & rrq: so where are things at with vdev?? |
| 11:05.13 | fsmithred | I've been trying to make a live-usb for people to be able to test vdev without installing it |
| 11:05.27 | fsmithred | vdev itself basically works |
| 11:06.02 | fsmithred | I've had to make a few changes in action files to get some devices to work |
| 11:07.07 | fsmithred | rrq and aitor are working on packaging - last thing aitor told me was that your suggestion to add Provides: libudev was working. |
| 11:07.25 | fsmithred | and I think he's got it so that installing vdev removes udev |
| 11:07.48 | fsmithred | the version I'm working with (rrq's) leaves both installed |
| 11:08.06 | fsmithred | and I've got my own setup so that I can boot with either udev or vdev |
| 11:08.29 | fsmithred | so I can check how udev handles a device and compare that to what vdev does (or doesn't) |
| 11:09.00 | Centurion_Dan | ok.. cool. I'm keen to look at building and testing vdev packages with a view to adding them to devuan experimental and maybe even jessie-backports, but need to sort amprolla first. |
| 11:09.41 | fsmithred | that would go a long way to getting people to test it |
| 11:10.05 | rrq | "my" vdev includes a choice script to altrnate between udev and vdev |
| 11:10.08 | fsmithred | I haven't looked inside vdev other than action files (key-value pairs) and helper scripts |
| 11:10.35 | fsmithred | but I think we need someone who can look into the guts of it. |
| 11:10.41 | rrq | vdev does not include the collection of vendor/product rules that udev has |
| 11:11.12 | rrq | this especially affects USB device handling |
| 11:11.37 | rrq | there is a standard for USB classification which comvers a range of classes |
| 11:11.50 | Centurion_Dan | I've just had a big break through after looking at my python code for a while trying to figure out why my delta algo didn't work as expected only to find that the input files I thought were properly sorted... weren't.... |
| 11:12.51 | rrq | .. and perhaps the USB classification standard is mostly followed nowadays |
| 11:13.06 | rrq | doesn't cover scanners though |
| 11:13.09 | Centurion_Dan | rrq: I thought vdev was supposed to have a compat layer that would use the existing udev rules if vdev specific ones weren't provided.. |
| 11:14.44 | rrq | I'm not sure it works that way. I thought it was to offer programs emitting udev events to emit them to vdev |
| 11:15.35 | rrq | but I havent' really digested that part od the code .. just focused on the packaging |
| 11:19.16 | rrq | if it does rely on udev even as fallback, one can't remove udev |
| 11:20.38 | rrq | I need to delve into that code to be able to give you a proper answer |
| 11:20.40 | fsmithred | ssh-keygen is not doing what I want |
| 11:24.07 | Centurion_Dan | rrq: The standard udev ruleset can be converted permanently but particularly with devices where particular software want's to change or set the rules (cups and sane are good ones for doing that) it's probably better to re-use/convert the existing udev rules - even if it's only done on install/upgrade/removal of those packages... |
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| 11:25.50 | Centurion_Dan | If I recall correctly there are udev triggers run for some packages to setup/update rules so we should be able to utilise those triggers for vdev too. |
| 11:29.36 | fsmithred | rrq, email sent |
| 11:31.32 | rrq | Centurion_Dan: Though, I have an inuitive resistance against repeating a plain vendor/product mapping or USB devices, whcih is what udev has, and rather have a primary handling based on device/interface class; only use vendor/product for exceptions. And, |
| 11:32.03 | rrq | either way, it's a hole in the vdevd code that needs to be filled in. |
| 11:35.28 | rrq | fsmithred: scp X fsmithred@hemma.ddns.name:. |
| 11:36.12 | rrq | (not too fast link I'm afraid) |
| 11:39.03 | fsmithred | that's the full command? |
| 11:39.26 | rrq | yes. replace X of course |
| 11:39.52 | fsmithred | don't I need to give the path to my private key? |
| 11:40.07 | fsmithred | can I use sftp instead? I know that. |
| 11:40.32 | rrq | I don't know :-) worth a try. |
| 11:40.58 | Centurion_Dan | rrq: Fair enough, but you'll probably find software like cups and sane use device/interface for the most part anyway for their udev rules... |
| 11:41.21 | rrq | fsmithred: otherwise, you can select your private key with -i |
| 11:41.54 | Centurion_Dan | fsmithred: scp -i <path to private key> ... |
| 11:42.13 | fsmithred | already doing it with sftp |
| 11:42.26 | fsmithred | ah, good - same syntax for scp |
| 11:42.37 | fsmithred | eta 30min |
| 11:44.24 | Centurion_Dan | anyway, I'm off to bed, have an early meeting tomorrow... |
| 11:44.34 | fsmithred | g'night |
| 11:45.05 | rrq | Centurion_Dan: well scanner is not a USB class so it has to be by vendor/product I'm afraid. But generally I think all rules in /lib/udev/rules.d use vendor/product rather. |
| 11:46.33 | rrq | perhaps it's in practice unaviodable to have a large number of vendor/product based rules. |
| 11:47.18 | rrq | but vdevd has one file per rule, so it needs something different |
| 11:47.54 | rrq | will be all too slow to discard non-applicable rules otherwise |
| 11:48.28 | fsmithred | is one rule per line faster? |
| 11:49.01 | rrq | moderately. you'd rather need a hash mechanism |
| 11:49.01 | fsmithred | and no, I'm not suggesting rules that look like udev rules. |
| 11:49.33 | fsmithred | do you understand the vdev hwdb? |
| 11:49.58 | fsmithred | brb |
| 11:51.04 | rrq | yes. but the issue is whether to embed this know-how about USB into vdevd, which otherwise is a type agnistic event processor. |
| 11:51.16 | rrq | agnostic, rather |
| 11:54.06 | fsmithred | what's with the complex directory structure in hwdb? |
| 11:57.25 | *** part/#devuan penelopa (~penelopa@unstable.nl) |
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| 11:58.58 | rrq | not sure exactly but it looks like supporting "hash-like" access |
| 12:03.00 | rrq | it looks like that database could be used/expanded to implement device classification. At the moment it basically only provides "model" info as a free text string |
| 12:06.40 | fsmithred | 6 min left |
| 12:09.56 | rrq | strolls to the kitchen for another coffee |
| 12:18.16 | rrq | hmm that doesn't mount sdb2 either |
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| 12:18.37 | fsmithred | using one of the rw boot choices? |
| 12:18.49 | rrq | yes this was vdev-rw |
| 12:19.05 | rrq | should I try udev-rw? |
| 12:19.15 | fsmithred | either should work |
| 12:20.27 | rrq | do you need ssh entry to explore, or should we go pm and I'll be your monkey? |
| 12:20.59 | fsmithred | I just logged in ssh to check the md5sum on your end; it's correct |
| 12:21.02 | fsmithred | oh |
| 12:21.16 | fsmithred | yeah, let me into the live system |
| 12:21.53 | rrq | ok I'm running it on a qemu on my laptop (not tv). I need to install the pub key... |
| 12:22.02 | *** join/#devuan aitor (~aitor@114.62-99-112.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es) |
| 12:22.10 | fsmithred | ok |
| 12:22.24 | fsmithred | hi aitor |
| 12:22.31 | aitor | hi, rrq and fsmithred |
| 12:23.34 | aitor | as i can see, the hardware data base (hwdb) is composed by several plain text files |
| 12:23.56 | aitor | all of the with the same nae "properties" |
| 12:24.06 | aitor | distributed in a directory tree |
| 12:24.54 | aitor | you can mout the hwdb.squashfs file |
| 12:25.17 | aitor | mkdir /tmp/squashfs |
| 12:25.25 | fsmithred | I did that and looked inside |
| 12:25.41 | fsmithred | eventually drilled down far enough to find the files, and they make sense to me |
| 12:25.48 | aitor | mount -t squashfs -o loop hwdb.suashfs /tmp/squashfs |
| 12:25.53 | aitor | ok :) |
| 12:25.57 | fsmithred | all those two-letter directories are a mystery to me |
| 12:26.19 | aitor | all of the contain only one line like, for example: |
| 12:26.36 | aitor | VDEV_HWDB_ID_MODEL_FROM_DATABASE=Laser Mouse (ID0009A) |
| 12:26.50 | rrq | fsmithred: on tv you could try: ssh root@localhost -p 10022 |
| 12:27.22 | aitor | i'm clumsy without the mouse :) |
| 12:28.24 | fsmithred | it wants a password |
| 12:28.37 | aitor | rrq, fsmithred... time to eat |
| 12:28.39 | fsmithred | or did you put the key in /root, too? |
| 12:28.41 | aitor | see you :) |
| 12:28.48 | fsmithred | bye |
| 12:28.54 | aitor | bye |
| 12:29.02 | rrq | bye |
| 12:29.41 | rrq | fsmithred: yes I put your key for root on that qemu clinet |
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| 12:30.02 | fsmithred | ok, I have to put my private key on tv |
| 12:30.10 | fsmithred | wow, that doesn't sound good. |
| 12:30.22 | rrq | ? |
| 12:30.45 | rrq | you might want to use an ssh agent and -A rather |
| 12:31.00 | fsmithred | ah, ok |
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| 12:31.26 | rrq | (remove your key) |
| 12:32.41 | fsmithred | it still wants password |
| 12:33.03 | rrq | let me change sshd_config ... |
| 12:33.14 | fsmithred | ssh-agent ssh -A -i /path-to/key me@yourhost |
| 12:33.41 | rrq | yes that will ask for password once |
| 12:33.48 | rrq | your key password |
| 12:34.06 | fsmithred | none |
| 12:34.18 | rrq | ok hold on |
| 12:37.19 | rrq | ok now password login is enabled for root |
| 12:38.44 | fsmithred | I don't know the password |
| 12:39.00 | fsmithred | oh, duh |
| 12:39.06 | rrq | :-) it's your image |
| 12:39.06 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 12:40.12 | rrq | ok. explore away. I'll be educating myself with some TV ads for a while |
| 12:42.37 | fsmithred | ok |
| 12:53.30 | fsmithred | I see one error in /var/log/live/boot.log |
| 12:53.32 | fsmithred | can't open /tmp/custom_mounts.list: no such file |
| 12:54.03 | fsmithred | and I can find one bug report with that error, but they were using encrypted persistence |
| 13:06.15 | fsmithred | that error was for /init line 217. I unpacked the initrd and looked at init. Line 217 is mountroot |
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| 13:07.28 | fsmithred | I don't know what to do next. (other than get more coffee) |
| 13:07.30 | fsmithred | brb |
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| 13:15.50 | rrq | where is the decision made to mount /dev/sdb2 ? |
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| 13:22.44 | fsmithred | I'm not sure |
| 13:23.23 | rrq | the persistence script seems to be /lib/live/boot/9990-overlay.sh |
| 13:25.22 | fsmithred | or in misc-helpers.sh |
| 13:25.39 | fsmithred | mount_persistence_media() |
| 13:30.48 | rrq | the overlay script seems to be the one installing an overlay in certain circumstances |
| 13:31.33 | rrq | function setup_unionfs() |
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| 13:34.33 | rrq | .. misc-helpers.sh has removable_usb_dev |
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| 13:34.42 | fsmithred | I'm wondering if union=aufs on the boot command is a problem |
| 13:35.15 | fsmithred | I've been leaving that out in jessie, and it works without it, except in two cases that I know |
| 13:35.50 | fsmithred | if you have encrypted persistent volume or if you're using open-infrastructure-* instead of live-* |
| 13:36.22 | fsmithred | and live-boot/live-config in sid have switched to union=overlay |
| 13:36.49 | fsmithred | but why does it work for me, but not anyone else? |
| 13:37.27 | rrq | yes that's peculiar. |
| 13:37.44 | fsmithred | using 10 year old dell laptop here. dual-core pentium |
| 13:38.05 | rrq | is it bare-metal versus qemu? |
| 13:38.11 | fsmithred | yes |
| 13:38.25 | fsmithred | oh, I think I tried it in qemu last night |
| 13:38.28 | fsmithred | lemme do that again |
| 13:38.33 | fsmithred | robert was on metal |
| 13:40.49 | rrq | ah; /sys/block/sdb/removable = 0 |
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| 13:42.08 | fsmithred | I booted the img as hard drive in qemu |
| 13:42.25 | rrq | that leads to whitleistdev=ignore_all_devices |
| 13:42.36 | fsmithred | I get no persistence and the same error about /tmp/custom_mounts.list, but line 227 instead of 217 |
| 13:44.23 | fsmithred | removable is set to 0 in qemu and set to 1 on the laptop |
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| 13:45.00 | fsmithred | what sets that? or when? |
| 13:46.00 | rrq | it's /sys so part of kernel .. maybe comes from qemu? |
| 13:46.11 | fsmithred | oh, maybe |
| 13:46.23 | fsmithred | but that doesn't explain why robert had trouble |
| 13:46.46 | fsmithred | maybe timing of some hardware recognition? |
| 13:46.57 | fsmithred | I should try it on my faster laptop |
| 13:47.17 | rrq | maybe it originates in bios, faulty bios maybe? |
| 13:50.04 | fsmithred | maybe. They don't all handle usb drives the same. |
| 13:50.28 | rrq | anyhow afact the overlay logic avoids considering devices with removable=0 |
| 13:52.20 | rrq | needs his beauty sleep |
| 13:53.41 | fsmithred | ok |
| 13:53.53 | rrq | I can leave it on for you if you need, but I'm dropping off now/soon |
| 13:54.02 | fsmithred | I'm booting the new laptop now. With vdev, I got no mouse or keyboard |
| 13:54.19 | fsmithred | meanwhile, vdev works fine from the hard drive on this box |
| 13:55.07 | fsmithred | works ok with udev, and I have persistenc. I'll try the vdev again. |
| 13:55.11 | rrq | that sounds like a missing evdev module |
| 13:55.15 | fsmithred | you should go to sleep. |
| 13:55.37 | rrq | yeah |
| 13:55.41 | fsmithred | other variables involved in this - new laptop is booting uefi |
| 13:55.53 | fsmithred | I switched to csm to boot this usb |
| 13:56.37 | fsmithred | and I don't really trust the uefi or the bios to be right on this thing |
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| 14:01.24 | fsmithred | again, no keyboard or mouse, which is kinda weird, considering this live image was created on this laptop. |
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| 14:41.30 | detha | hellekin: http://devuan.detha.net/mirrors/ |
| 14:43.01 | hellekin | detha: http://neo900.files.dev-1.org/files.devuan.org/ (I guess you used /( |
| 14:43.32 | detha | hellekin: it scrapes devuan.org for the urls |
| 14:44.07 | detha | some are complete, some need one level more |
| 14:44.54 | detha | still need to do ftp, urllib worked nice for that until I took it out of my shielded environment bwhind a proxy |
| 14:45.16 | hellekin | detha: in the www.git there's a file with that info... https://git.devuan.org/devuan-editors/devuan-www/blob/beta.devuan.org/data/mirrors.yml |
| 14:46.10 | detha | hmm. that needs login details, which is a pain with things that sit on unattended servers |
| 14:46.30 | hellekin | detha: vividspark.org has the same path: /files.devuan.org/ |
| 14:46.51 | hellekin | detha: ack... Will put it public soon. |
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| 15:03.24 | golinux | rrq: Just reading the logs. You said: |
| 15:03.38 | golinux | golinux doesn't have any usb according to kernel |
| 15:03.38 | golinux | doesn't explain the (usb) printer working |
| 15:04.29 | golinux | I printed the page from my hdd Devuan install not the vdev img. Apologies for the lack of clarity. |
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| 15:13.38 | golinux | rrq: You said: golinux: I might not understand your setup. At a guess, you are running/testing on a qemu client, but overlooked the need to bind host usb ports to it, for it to experience usb events? |
| 15:14.46 | golinux | I have run the img in qemu and also from usb drive (though the persistence isn't working atm). |
| 15:16.03 | golinux | I have no idea what "bind host usb ports to it" is about. |
| 15:18.21 | golinux | OMG! So much went on this morning. My head is spinning. |
| 15:27.53 | golinux | Whew! Finally got caught up. That was quite a marathon!! |
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| 15:33.47 | fsmithred | yeah, I woke up early this morning |
| 15:34.25 | fsmithred | golinux, did you try booting the imaged usb stick on real hardware? |
| 15:35.10 | golinux | Yes. Several times |
| 15:35.49 | golinux | Persistence no workie |
| 15:36.37 | edbarx | Sorry for asking here. I purchased a UEFI based HP laptop on which I am trying to get Wheezy boot but I am failing. I am using legacy boot. |
| 15:37.05 | fsmithred | golinux, apparently, it only works for me. |
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| 15:37.25 | fsmithred | edbarx, is there any operating system on the laptop? |
| 15:38.02 | fsmithred | i.e. do you care if you have windows? (I think I know the answer, but forgive me for asking anyway.) |
| 15:38.02 | edbarx | There was Windows 7 which I nuked. I then formatted the HD with GPT. Before it was msdos |
| 15:38.27 | fsmithred | and it wouldn't boot with either? |
| 15:38.43 | edbarx | I don't want to use msdos. |
| 15:39.03 | fsmithred | ok, but it might be good to narrow down the problem |
| 15:39.12 | edbarx | How? |
| 15:40.10 | fsmithred | actually, I wouldn't expect it to work with msdos if it doesn't work with gpt |
| 15:40.19 | muep | my impression is that you are better off using an msdos-style partition table if you are using bios-style bootloader |
| 15:40.52 | fsmithred | what I've read is that some older mobos can't handle gpt, but some can. |
| 15:41.12 | edbarx | msdos is limited to four primary partitions. This laptop I am using right now is GPT formatted although it is BIOS based |
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| 15:41.52 | muep | IIRC GPT has some space reserved so that you can also have an MBR there. but having two sets of partition tables adds more possibilities for having some confusing situations |
| 15:41.55 | fsmithred | yeah, I'm loving gpt. |
| 15:42.05 | edbarx | If that is the case I can boot your ISO and try to mount a some partitions. If it succeeds it should be OK |
| 15:42.34 | fsmithred | you trying to boot wheezy from usb or optical disk? |
| 15:42.34 | muep | I'd prefer to boot an UEFI bootloader on motherboards that have UEFI |
| 15:43.05 | fsmithred | not bad, if your uefi works. |
| 15:43.12 | edbarx | I am not mixing GPT and msdos. That would be asking for unnecessary complications. |
| 15:43.17 | fsmithred | mine is not right - I cannot change the order of bootloaders. |
| 15:43.39 | fsmithred | other than that, it works. |
| 15:44.07 | edbarx | I will do some testing to determine whether GPT is supported. |
| 15:44.11 | fsmithred | edbarx, my iso boots but wheezy doesn't? |
| 15:44.48 | edbarx | Wheezy did booted but with the help of the bootloader from a CD. |
| 15:45.09 | fsmithred | you trying to boot with usb-3? |
| 15:45.19 | edbarx | No, from a CD |
| 15:45.54 | fsmithred | now I'm confused. |
| 15:46.12 | fsmithred | what was the bootload from the CD, and where was wheezy? |
| 15:46.34 | edbarx | Don't bother. These are teething problems. It will be resolved. I only need to be patient. |
| 15:46.49 | edbarx | Wheezy is installed to a partition |
| 15:46.59 | edbarx | on GPT disk |
| 15:47.12 | fsmithred | installed while in uefi or bios mode? |
| 15:47.22 | edbarx | Legacy |
| 15:47.44 | fsmithred | is there 1MB of free space before the first partition? |
| 15:48.07 | edbarx | Yes. But I might be missing something about that. |
| 15:48.48 | fsmithred | I know you already know this, but you should be able to boot into wheezy using whatever bootloader you can, and then running grub-install /dev/sda |
| 15:48.51 | fsmithred | with success. |
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| 15:49.29 | edbarx | I did dpkg-reconfigure grub-pc which did it for me. |
| 15:49.29 | fsmithred | just watch out if you boot with usb; sometimes the device names get switched |
| 15:49.35 | fsmithred | ok |
| 15:49.56 | edbarx | Is that a udev token |
| 15:50.13 | fsmithred | I don't know what causes it. |
| 15:50.24 | fsmithred | and it doesn't seem to be consistent. |
| 15:50.36 | fsmithred | so, maybe spin-up time on hard drive. That's a guess. |
| 15:51.40 | fsmithred | I assume you don't even get a grub prompt if you try to boot from hard drive. |
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| 15:52.09 | edbarx | Yes, only a "please install an operating system" message |
| 15:52.53 | edbarx | Which means grub is not being loaded. |
| 15:52.58 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 15:53.40 | edbarx | Don't worry. By hook or by crook, it will have to boot! |
| 15:53.52 | fsmithred | another angle, which I'm sure you'll like almost as much as having windows - install to uefi, then switch to bios. |
| 15:54.05 | fsmithred | I skipped a few steps there. |
| 15:54.46 | fsmithred | and I'm not certain it'll work. But I think I did that recently. |
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| 15:56.00 | edbarx | Thanks for your time. I will continue to search for a solution. |
| 15:56.09 | fsmithred | good luck. |
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| 16:05.21 | muep | switching to BIOS might not be trivially easy. though I guess it can be done |
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| 16:54.58 | PnUic | hola |
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| 17:33.05 | golinux | fsmithred: I just double checked vdev rw mode in both qemu and from usb. Both are in /lib/live/mount/medium/ with no persistence to be found . . . |
| 17:33.17 | golinux | :( |
| 17:33.57 | golinux | You already knew that but I had never checked the file location before to confirm. |
| 17:34.40 | golinux | What a headache! But yours definitely has to be worse than mine!! |
| 17:35.05 | golinux | b'fast for me now |
| 17:43.11 | Centurion_Dan | o/ |
| 17:48.10 | fsmithred | good morning Centurion_Dan |
| 17:48.28 | fsmithred | golinux, throw that damned image file out. |
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| 17:50.48 | golinux | Yeah, I figured (even though the md5sums matched). Awaiting a replacement. Your turn now. :) |
| 17:56.23 | Centurion_Dan | morning fsmithred! |
| 18:06.00 | fsmithred | golinux, I haven't decided if there will be a replacement |
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| 18:41.32 | golinux | fsmithred: Maybe take a break and come back to it with fresh eyes in a day or two. |
| 18:41.57 | fsmithred | well, right now, I'm working on Refracta-8 |
| 18:42.18 | fsmithred | no beta or rc in the name. |
| 18:43.25 | fsmithred | and I think you'll really like the mouse cursor. |
| 18:44.02 | golinux | Oooo! now I'll be able to see it in the termina;l |
| 18:44.14 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 18:44.55 | golinux | And I keep double clicking to open files and get the next one under the cursor, of course. |
| 18:45.18 | golinux | ;) |
| 18:45.28 | fsmithred | I only do that with the touchpad |
| 18:45.35 | golinux | Everybody has their individual preferences. |
| 18:46.20 | golinux | I find the way refracta is set up hard to navigate. I am so tied to my launchers and preferences. |
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| 18:46.53 | fsmithred | you have launchers for all your favorite apps? |
| 18:47.13 | golinux | Yes, Stacked in lower and upper panels |
| 18:47.25 | golinux | To locations too. |
| 18:47.40 | golinux | Everything is just a click away. |
| 18:48.20 | fsmithred | I have a bottom panel on my own installation, with a few items in it. |
| 18:48.32 | golinux | I rarely have to use the main menu. |
| 18:48.53 | fsmithred | be glad it's not the icewm menu. |
| 18:49.35 | fsmithred | getting back to the vdev iso |
| 18:49.46 | golinux | Yea I saw that. I like a thin panel |
| 18:50.10 | golinux | Someone, I forget who, suggested on focusing on vdev for the moment |
| 18:50.30 | golinux | Might simplify things. |
| 18:50.51 | fsmithred | I do have an install with a newer version of vdev. It's the openbox build. With v.1.2, you can add wireless drivers without killing the initrd. |
| 18:51.38 | golinux | I couldn;t test that. Only wired. |
| 18:52.00 | fsmithred | but things may change again in a few days. |
| 18:52.13 | golinux | Things are always changing. |
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| 18:53.35 | fsmithred | 20% squashed. Stick around. If it boots, you can read the first official announcement. |
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| 18:58.35 | golinux | still hasn't gotten b'fast |
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| 19:30.59 | fsmithred | Announcement: |
| 19:31.07 | fsmithred | Nearly two years in the making, |
| 19:31.14 | fsmithred | And less than two years late, |
| 19:31.20 | fsmithred | I'd like to announce, |
| 19:31.26 | Lydia_K | FREE CANDY! |
| 19:31.26 | fsmithred | Refracta-8 |
| 19:31.29 | fsmithred | lol |
| 19:32.01 | fsmithred | I got altoids and some generic coffee-flavored hard candy. |
| 19:32.16 | Lydia_K | I'll take it! |
| 19:32.47 | fsmithred | meet me at the castle. |
| 19:33.05 | fsmithred | fair damsel. |
| 19:33.31 | Lydia_K | Huh.. castle huh? That's a strange place for a stranger to have candy, but ok! |
| 19:34.47 | fsmithred | uh-oh |
| 19:34.51 | Lydia_K | Seriously though, nice work :) |
| 19:34.57 | fsmithred | thanks. |
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| 19:35.18 | fsmithred | Much thanks to the Devuan team for making it possible to have a fully functional desktop. |
| 19:35.25 | fsmithred | without... |
| 19:35.39 | golinux | fsmithred: What's the strangeness going on in our PM |
| 19:36.36 | fsmithred | I saw the strangeness here in the main room. |
| 19:36.46 | fsmithred | -spb- who are you? |
| 19:39.01 | fsmithred | ~-spb- |
| 19:39.14 | Lydia_K | O.o |
| 19:39.15 | fsmithred | not sure if I did that right. |
| 19:40.43 | Lydia_K | LOL, I just noticed the wall |
| 19:43.26 | fsmithred | wall? |
| 19:45.03 | fsmithred | Lydia_K, what's the wall? |
| 19:46.28 | Lydia_K | Write ALL |
| 19:46.36 | fsmithred | ALL |
| 19:47.03 | fsmithred | um, that's not what you mean, is it? |
| 19:47.06 | Lydia_K | wall - write a message to all users |
| 19:47.08 | Lydia_K | man wall |
| 19:47.10 | Lydia_K | check it out |
| 19:47.13 | fsmithred | here? |
| 19:47.21 | Lydia_K | On a linux box |
| 19:47.26 | Lydia_K | or any unix box really |
| 19:48.29 | Lydia_K | You've never used the old unix messaging utilities? |
| 19:48.33 | fsmithred | I think I've used write before. |
| 19:48.43 | Lydia_K | mesg, wall, and my favorite, talk |
| 19:48.44 | fsmithred | to someone in the next room |
| 19:48.49 | Lydia_K | I still use talk sometimes. |
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| 19:49.02 | fsmithred | No manual entry for talk |
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| 19:49.32 | Lydia_K | When I want to talk to one of my friends and not have anything recorded ever, only have it in memory. |
| 19:50.09 | Lydia_K | apt-get install talk talkd |
| 19:50.38 | fsmithred | nobody to talk to here, unless I can talk to someone on windows |
| 19:51.23 | Lydia_K | I have a few unixy friends who have logins to one or two of my servers. |
| 19:51.42 | Lydia_K | If I want ultra private communication I tell them to log in, then use talk to speak to them. |
| 19:51.45 | Lydia_K | It's awesome. |
| 19:51.54 | fsmithred | secret geek network |
| 19:52.03 | OmegaPhil | Lol. |
| 19:52.15 | OmegaPhil | Why not maintain your own IRC server |
| 19:52.21 | OmegaPhil | SSH into it etc |
| 19:52.28 | fsmithred | so, what happened a few minutes ago? Did you get yelled at by a bot for using all caps? |
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| 19:53.26 | Lydia_K | Oh man, back in the day I ran a server with a bunch of my friends on it, I wrote some messaging scripts that would let you leave a message for another user that would be echoed upon login (via /etc/profile stuff) |
| 19:53.48 | OmegaPhil | Fancy. |
| 19:54.23 | Lydia_K | It actually saved my ass when I missed a connecting flight from London to Warsaw, I used a pay by the minute internet terminal (this was a long time ago) to send an email to my friend who was supposed to pick me up, but I had this bad feeling that the email didn't go through |
| 19:54.49 | Lydia_K | so I found some webpage with a java ssh shell, that amazingly worked on this horrible web kiosk, then logged into my box and left him a message. |
| 19:55.03 | fsmithred | wow |
| 19:55.08 | Lydia_K | He never got the email, but he logged into my server (named monolith) and saw the message I had left him. |
| 19:55.19 | OmegaPhil | Nice :) |
| 19:55.27 | Lydia_K | And was able to pick me up at the airport (which was like a building a strip of pavement in the middle of nowhere) |
| 19:56.02 | Lydia_K | I miss having a box with users like that. |
| 19:56.31 | Lydia_K | secret messages and clandestine communications, those were the days. |
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| 20:30.23 | Centurion_Dan | I'm sure that we should set something like that up... |
| 20:30.34 | Centurion_Dan | Lydia_K: ^^ |
| 20:31.14 | Lydia_K | :D |
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| 22:11.00 | aitor | hi Centurion_Dan, Lyudia_K, are you still there? |
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| 22:19.14 | aitor | i think that i commited a mistake: |
| 22:20.40 | aitor | /lib/vdev/hwdb/hwdb.squashfs must be uncompressed, isn't it? |
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| 22:21.37 | aitor | how many changes, again' |
| 22:23.51 | aitor | and what about vdevfs? |
| 22:35.12 | aitor | see you :) |
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| 23:20.19 | rrq | Centurion_Dan: re vdev. It comes in three packages, which installs and work nicely on Devuan 1.0.0. But they install as "tentative" competitor to udev, with a manual script that lets you go back and forth between using vdev or udev. |
| 23:22.06 | rrq | I would suggest not adding them to backports yet, but probably to updates. Vdev is functionally incomplete wrt USB device handling. Otherwise perfectly safe to use afaik. |
| 23:22.38 | rrq | And after installing, a user can go back to udev in between trialling vdev. |
| 23:23.12 | robert-e | rrq: I did that about an hour ago (after making a clonezilla image of hd). It was not successful, as it would not startx on a reboot. Ran script again to choose udev, and same result..no xserver. |
| 23:23.55 | robert-e | rrq: So I reimaged the hd, and await for another day. No problems. Thanks |
| 23:24.03 | rrq | right. though you are using fsmithred's image, or is this vaniall Devuan? |
| 23:24.11 | rrq | vanilla |
| 23:24.22 | robert-e | rrq: vanilla devuan, fully updated. |
| 23:25.09 | rrq | ok. ta. right. so maybe the packaging is still lacking (as well). hmm |
| 23:25.59 | robert-e | rrq: It is a really good idea if it can be pulled off. I did intall the 3 debs off your git site |
| 23:26.29 | robert-e | rrq: I took the ones from 3 days ago. |
| 23:28.19 | robert-e | rrq: You are talking to Danial, so I will get out of here and let you guys carry on. |
| 23:28.46 | rrq | yes would be the latest. I can't do things now but would be interested in exploring the reason. |
| 23:30.07 | robert-e | rrq: sure, we can do that, when you are inclined. Last line on the screen was the "can't start xserver--giving up" or some-such. bbl |
| 23:30.39 | rrq | perhaps you could try using libudev1-compat_1.2 instead... the new version 1.2.1 includes a special "fix" that possibly would explain. |
| 23:31.38 | robert-e | rrq: I used the 1.2.1 version |
| 23:32.36 | rrq | yes. I made a "fix" which makes sure libudev1-compat overrides libudev1, which wasn't the case previously. |
| 23:33.06 | rrq | with 1.2 I think mot things will keep using libudev1 even in vdev choice mode |
| 23:33.15 | rrq | mot=most |
| 23:33.45 | robert-e | rrq: Timefor my evening "mess of pottage"..will try your suggestion after dinner. Thanks for all. |
| 23:34.07 | rrq | off hand. libudev is the only connection between [uv]dev and Xorg |
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| 23:59.18 | fsmithred | rrq, robert-e, I had a weird thing with xorg in one of the installs with vdev. No display manager on this one. I enter 'startx' and it looks like it's starting, then hangs. I have to hit ctrl-alt-F2 then go back to ctrl-alt-F1 and the desktop is there. Except yesterday (or early this morning?) it was on ctrl-alt-F7. |