00:08.08 | *** join/#devuan os|t0 (~freenode@2001:388:e001:900::deb8) |
00:20.01 | *** join/#devuan pencilandpaper (~penciland@unaffiliated/pencilandpaper) |
00:21.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | softfp isn't exactly "no fp" - it just means apps use shared lib to do math afaik. The shared lib itself then uses FP-coproc, so the difference is not what you might think it was, between softfp and hardware fp |
00:22.16 | *** join/#devuan ppisati_ (~ppisati@2-235-152-247.ip228.fastwebnet.it) |
00:26.10 | *** join/#devuan Inocuous (~Spects@140-112-181-66.dsl.sacoriver.net) |
00:36.54 | *** join/#devuan DanMc (~DanMc@2602:306:b8ec:a070:216:17ff:fedf:a1c6) |
00:49.53 | *** join/#devuan Achylles_ (~Achylles@191.255.73.64) |
00:52.38 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05: debian's armel is for armv4t (and compatible) |
00:53.51 | Pali | and I do not see fp instructions for amrv4t... |
00:54.37 | Pali | softfp does not mean "no fp", just it does not use fp registers for library ABI... |
00:55.01 | Pali | but I cannot find armv4t has fp support or not |
00:57.28 | *** join/#devuan pencilandpaper (~penciland@unaffiliated/pencilandpaper) |
01:18.02 | *** join/#devuan Chanku (~Chanku@c-68-52-188-31.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
01:36.40 | *** join/#devuan nextime (~nextime@za.nexlab.net) |
01:43.34 | *** join/#devuan Infiltrator (~Infiltrat@unaffiliated/infiltrator) |
01:44.21 | *** join/#devuan furrywolf (~randyg@70-6-132-124.pools.spcsdns.net) |
01:49.07 | *** join/#devuan DanMc (~DanMc@2602:306:b8ec:a070:216:17ff:fedf:a1c6) |
01:52.07 | *** join/#devuan Quetzalcoatl (~Quetzalco@fixed-191-7-187-191-7-233.iusacell.net) |
02:16.07 | *** join/#devuan pencilandpaper (~penciland@unaffiliated/pencilandpaper) |
02:24.57 | *** join/#devuan Humpelstilzchen (erik@x4e32aa26.dyn.telefonica.de) |
02:37.10 | *** join/#devuan Drugo (~Drugo@host200-204-dynamic.56-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
02:53.10 | *** join/#devuan gallux (~atomic@191.126.4.117) |
03:07.37 | *** join/#devuan Hoshpak (~Hoshpak@p2003005B4B7BC60068B66A3AB8E9D708.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
03:10.10 | *** join/#devuan pencilandpaper (~penciland@unaffiliated/pencilandpaper) |
03:16.02 | *** join/#devuan n4dir (~user@pD9EF1043.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
03:24.17 | *** join/#devuan Anselmo (~cjdns@174-17-84-151.phnx.qwest.net) |
03:31.16 | *** join/#devuan Infiltrator (~Infiltrat@unaffiliated/infiltrator) |
03:35.28 | *** join/#devuan furrywolf (~randyg@70-6-132-124.pools.spcsdns.net) |
03:41.24 | *** join/#devuan pencilandpaper (~penciland@unaffiliated/pencilandpaper) |
03:45.15 | *** join/#devuan bunyip (~bunyip@unaffiliated/bunyip) |
04:31.52 | *** join/#devuan furrywolf (~randyg@72-57-27-91.pools.spcsdns.net) |
04:36.10 | *** join/#devuan pencilandpaper (~penciland@unaffiliated/pencilandpaper) |
04:44.27 | *** join/#devuan n4dir1 (~user@pD9EF0F49.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
04:46.25 | *** join/#devuan mlsmith (~Mike@unaffiliated/configx) |
05:08.09 | *** join/#devuan mlsmith (~mlsmith@unaffiliated/configx) |
05:12.45 | *** join/#devuan mlsmith (~mlsmith@unaffiliated/configx) |
05:13.13 | *** join/#devuan golinux (~golinux@unaffiliated/golinux) |
05:14.03 | *** join/#devuan mlsmith (~mlsmith@unaffiliated/configx) |
05:16.31 | *** join/#devuan mlsmith (~mlsmith@unaffiliated/configx) |
05:16.59 | *** join/#devuan DocScrutinizer05 (~saturn@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
06:00.24 | *** join/#devuan Scaniatrucker (~Scaniatru@78-56-98-5.static.zebra.lt) |
06:01.05 | *** part/#devuan Negher (~Negher@negher.net) |
06:33.25 | *** join/#devuan n4dir (~user@pD9EF0F49.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
06:37.28 | *** join/#devuan pencilandpaper (~penciland@unaffiliated/pencilandpaper) |
06:57.00 | *** join/#devuan Besnik_b (~Besnik@athedsl-301627.home.otenet.gr) |
07:06.35 | *** join/#devuan SylvieLorxu (~TheLastPr@541B7AAC.cm-5-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) |
07:07.05 | *** join/#devuan MDrights (~MDrights@223.73.1.179) |
07:18.46 | hellekin | really nice reading all this on N900 and Maemo. Thank you Pali, parazyd for taking this up! |
07:19.21 | *** join/#devuan aitor (~aitor@114.62-99-112.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es) |
07:19.48 | aitor | Pali: i assume that fp means floating point... |
07:38.04 | *** join/#devuan giricz81 (~quassel@ip4-83-240-38-90.cust.nbox.cz) |
07:40.19 | *** join/#devuan aitor (~aitor@114.62-99-112.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es) |
07:43.53 | aitor | hellekin: Maemo or MeeGo? |
07:44.22 | aitor | meego is the evolution of maemo (and moblin) |
07:45.42 | aitor | there is another system based largely on meego: Sailfish OS |
07:49.24 | *** join/#devuan Akuli (~Akuli@85-131-104-130.bb.dnainternet.fi) |
07:49.33 | aitor | all of them in qt5 |
07:49.35 | muep | I did not ever mess much with meego, but my impression is that the similarities are mostly limited to appearance and use of linux and qt |
07:50.11 | aitor | all of them in qt, i mean to say |
07:50.22 | aitor | only sailfish os is developed in qt5 |
07:50.45 | aitor | yes muep, there is nothing in gtk |
07:50.58 | hellekin | aitor: sounds to me like offering a Devuan-based upstream for Maemo |
07:51.05 | aitor | but the gtk containers system is good fot that |
07:51.33 | aitor | that's a very good idea |
07:51.42 | muep | the UI layer seems similar but afaik the plumbing otherwise is not at all similar in meego and sailfish |
07:52.17 | aitor | hellekin: i'm finishing it, give me a few minuts, lol... |
07:55.21 | aitor | i need coffee, see you :) |
08:31.15 | *** join/#devuan Bjornnn (~Spects@140-112-181-66.dsl.sacoriver.net) |
09:01.16 | *** part/#devuan drkhsh (~drkhsh@unaffiliated/drkhsh) |
09:08.28 | *** join/#devuan kraiskil (~kraiskil@a91-156-135-145.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
09:09.32 | *** join/#devuan Hestben (~robert@c-31-209-31-52.cust.bredband2.com) |
09:32.11 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-58-55.clienti.tiscali.it) |
09:49.57 | *** join/#devuan antofox1 (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-58-55.clienti.tiscali.it) |
09:50.15 | AntoFox | morning!! |
09:56.46 | *** join/#devuan Human_G33k (~Human_G33@93.95.62.245) |
09:59.35 | *** join/#devuan SylvieLorxu (~TheLastPr@145.85.236.51) |
10:13.33 | *** join/#devuan aitor (~aitor@114.62-99-112.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es) |
10:13.47 | aitor | good morning |
10:20.07 | *** join/#devuan telst4r (~telstar@fsf/member/telst4r) |
10:21.30 | MDrights | Good evening :) |
10:21.52 | MDrights | has just install Refracta Ceres |
10:22.18 | telst4r | good day! |
10:23.38 | aitor | happy day to all ! |
10:24.02 | AntoFox | during this day I update hezeh.org and the related repo. stay tuned |
10:25.13 | *** join/#devuan fsmithred (~fsmithred@68-184-46-18.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) |
10:27.07 | fsmithred | aitor, did you get your sound working? |
10:28.11 | AntoFox | have you finished simple-netaid-gtk? |
10:29.56 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox1 (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-58-55.clienti.tiscali.it) |
10:31.09 | aitor | fsmithred: still not |
10:31.31 | fsmithred | sorry I have no new ideas on that |
10:31.32 | aitor | i've done a fresh installation of Gnuinos 2 |
10:32.16 | aitor | now i'm going to install vdev, shortly i will confirm to you |
10:32.53 | fsmithred | did you update the vdev in the repo in the past week? |
10:32.55 | aitor | yesterday i tried using headphones, with the same result |
10:33.09 | aitor | i will do it today |
10:33.26 | fsmithred | so I'm using an older version than you? |
10:33.38 | aitor | i'm doing some changes in vdev-initramfs |
10:34.49 | aitor | basically the changes are in vdev-initramfs tools, and i am using the same repo |
10:35.03 | fsmithred | you mentioned before that you made some changes in packaging refractasnapshot. Did you move some files to different locations? |
10:35.16 | *** join/#devuan Bercik (~Yotsuba@unaffiliated/bercik) |
10:36.11 | aitor | no, i didn't consider it necessary |
10:36.32 | aitor | you can download the sources using apt> |
10:36.32 | fsmithred | ah, ok. |
10:36.46 | aitor | apt-get source refractasnapshot |
10:36.48 | *** join/#devuan Bryanstein (~Bryanstei@shellium/admin/bryanstein) |
10:37.23 | fsmithred | what does that give you? |
10:37.46 | fsmithred | I'll try that |
10:38.11 | aitor | you can use git-buildpackage from now on |
10:38.40 | aitor | any doubt, just ask |
10:38.52 | Akuli | apt-get source is nice |
10:39.00 | aitor | yes |
10:39.05 | Akuli | only problem with it is that it creates a bunch of different files and folders |
10:39.12 | Akuli | i'd like to get everything into one folder |
10:39.31 | fsmithred | is wondering what the sources of his scripts look like |
10:41.29 | aitor | download the sources, and have a look at the .install files |
10:42.58 | aitor | and the Makefile... |
10:43.08 | *** join/#devuan davec_ (~davec@host-69-145-45-32.shr-wy.client.bresnan.net) |
10:43.43 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox1 (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-40-161.clienti.tiscali.it) |
10:44.02 | fsmithred | gonna do that - had to reboot the laptop |
10:44.23 | *** join/#devuan SylvieLorxu (~TheLastPr@145.85.236.62) |
10:45.33 | aitor | see you later, i'll try again with vdev |
10:45.38 | aitor | need to reboot too |
10:47.36 | *** join/#devuan r2rien (~tonyoy@cor13-3-88-164-147-63.fbx.proxad.net) |
10:52.34 | *** join/#devuan aitor (~aitor@114.62-99-112.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es) |
10:55.48 | aitor | fsmithred: |
10:55.51 | aitor | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3641PRBleI |
10:56.35 | aitor | the sond works ! |
10:56.56 | aitor | the sound :) |
11:00.27 | aitor | see you later |
11:04.55 | *** join/#devuan DanMc (~dan@2602:306:c519:8c60:72f1:a1ff:fe6c:d505) |
11:07.37 | *** join/#devuan SylvieLorxu (~TheLastPr@145.85.236.62) |
11:10.47 | *** join/#devuan Xiaoman (~Xiaoman@unaffiliated/xiaoman) |
11:13.08 | DanMc | My apologies for the thoughtless question yesterday regarding what I perceived to be a possible bug with Catfish opening Audacious. It was a simple mime type issue that a friend helped me with. Sometimes I can't see the forest for the trees. |
11:17.01 | Akuli | yeah i was thinking that the program probably just calls xdg-open |
11:18.05 | *** join/#devuan aitor (~aitor@114.62-99-112.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es) |
11:19.28 | aitor | i did a test this morning, and the file has been opened succesfully with pcmanfm |
11:20.28 | DanMc | It was calling xdg-open. |
11:21.13 | aitor | btw, running catfish you can see another example of a blocked spinner due to a singlethread process |
11:21.40 | aitor | the spinner doesn't work while catfish is searching the files |
11:21.57 | aitor | it should be multithreaded |
11:22.28 | aitor | the same happended to me developing simple-netaid-gtk |
11:23.20 | DanMc | Ahh...okay. Thanks aitor. |
11:26.01 | aitor | i did a class for such cases |
11:26.13 | aitor | brb |
11:33.58 | jaromil | greets from Gothenburg while at FSCONS will present Devuan at 14:30 - will be recorded, but there is no live stream |
11:39.02 | *** join/#devuan Pali_ (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
11:59.29 | *** join/#devuan knidos (~knidos@88.246.61.199) |
12:10.58 | *** join/#devuan enyc (~enyc@muddle.enyc.org.uk) |
12:14.45 | *** join/#devuan Katnija (~KittenGNU@unaffiliated/kittengnu) |
12:25.45 | *** join/#devuan Levure (~quassel@109.132.56.75) |
12:36.46 | *** join/#devuan premoboss (~utente@91.253.135.196) |
12:46.29 | *** join/#devuan n4dir (~user@pD9EF0F49.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
12:56.55 | *** join/#devuan SylvieLorxu (~TheLastPr@145.85.232.110) |
13:11.03 | *** join/#devuan PnUic (5fed0f2c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.237.15.44) |
13:11.05 | PnUic | hi |
13:40.22 | *** join/#devuan leafwiz (~leafwiz@51.174.97.204) |
13:42.00 | leafwiz | Hey, I have slim installed. But I kida struggle with getting it to choose a default desktop env. I would like to have mate started , but now it starts xmonad. I have edited .xinitrc to contain exec mate-session, but still it defaults to xmonad only |
13:43.21 | Hestben | leafwiz: Does /var/log/slim.log say anything interesting? |
13:44.30 | leafwiz | slim: waiting for X server to begin accepting connections. |
13:44.30 | leafwiz | slim: pam_authentication(): Authentication failure |
13:44.55 | leafwiz | the waiting for X server, is repeated a couple of times |
13:45.41 | leafwiz | mate works on my system, it is just that I have to press f1 before I log in. I would prefer not to do that. |
13:46.16 | Hestben | leafwiz: I see. I don't have more experience with slim, so I don't think I can help you further |
13:46.33 | leafwiz | Hestben: okay. Which login manager do you use? |
13:47.07 | Hestben | Still using debian jessie mostly. Is it lightdm default? |
13:47.13 | Hestben | I haven't changed it |
13:47.27 | Hestben | I got slim starting xfce on my gentoo just the other day |
13:49.15 | Hestben | And your 'startx' starts mate-session? |
13:49.18 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
13:50.36 | fsmithred | you have /etc/alternatives/x-session-manager? It should be a symlink pointing to whatever starts your desktop. |
13:55.59 | leafwiz | fsmithred: aha.. yeah, I could try that |
13:56.07 | *** join/#devuan blueness_ (~blueness@gentoo/developer/blueness) |
14:09.13 | *** join/#devuan Drugo (~Drugo@host200-204-dynamic.56-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
14:11.37 | *** join/#devuan leafwiz (~leafwiz@51.174.97.204) |
14:12.52 | leafwiz | So I found that I have to use ~/.xsession , instead of ~/.xinitrc , applies to both slim and lightdm |
14:13.03 | leafwiz | fyi :) |
14:15.03 | Hestben | leafwiz: good to know, thanks for finding that out |
14:23.03 | *** join/#devuan Katnija (~KittenGNU@unaffiliated/kittengnu) |
14:30.01 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-50-207.clienti.tiscali.it) |
14:30.33 | *** join/#devuan golinux (~golinux@2605:6000:ebc6:d200:96de:80ff:febc:9ea8) |
14:30.33 | *** join/#devuan golinux (~golinux@unaffiliated/golinux) |
14:41.23 | *** join/#devuan hyrcan (~hyrcan@197.231.252.122) |
14:47.11 | *** join/#devuan PnUic (5fed0f2c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.237.15.44) |
14:47.13 | PnUic | hi |
14:54.47 | *** join/#devuan blueness_ (~blueness@gentoo/developer/blueness) |
15:00.25 | *** join/#devuan Drugo (~Drugo@host200-204-dynamic.56-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
15:16.34 | *** join/#devuan Kruppt (~Kruppt@50.111.18.229) |
15:21.28 | *** join/#devuan gallux (~atomic@191.126.138.221) |
15:29.56 | parazyd | raspberry pi 1 arm image is up! :) will also probably work on pi0: https://files.devuan.org/devuan_jessie_beta/testing/devuan_jessie_1.0.0-beta2.rc1_armel_raspi1.img.xz |
15:30.04 | parazyd | try it out please |
15:42.54 | *** join/#devuan wildlander (~wild@unaffiliated/wildlander) |
15:49.00 | golinux | jaromil: How did the talk go at FSCONS? And when will the video be available? |
15:50.03 | *** part/#devuan bunyip (~bunyip@unaffiliated/bunyip) |
15:52.41 | telst4r | cool parazyd , Will try out on monday when I'm at my Pi 1 B |
15:52.59 | parazyd | neat :) |
15:53.03 | parazyd | let me know how it goes |
15:54.07 | telst4r | is it a 2 or 4gb img? |
15:57.26 | telst4r | I thought Rpi 1 is an armHF machine, not -el? |
16:01.05 | telst4r | well, we'll see. |
16:04.05 | *** join/#devuan premoboss (~utente@91.252.94.212) |
16:08.50 | *** join/#devuan cyteen_ (~cyteen@cyteen42.plus.com) |
16:10.22 | *** join/#devuan DanMc (~dan@2602:306:c519:8c60:72f1:a1ff:fe6c:d505) |
16:12.02 | *** join/#devuan lkcl (~lkcl@pcd278095.netvigator.com) |
16:17.01 | *** join/#devuan Drugo (~Drugo@host200-204-dynamic.56-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
16:19.51 | muep | telst4r: all rpi devices can use either armel function calling convention or armhf function calling convention |
16:21.53 | parazyd | telst4r: it's about 1.3 GB |
16:22.10 | *** join/#devuan mobinmob (~mobinmob@2a02:582:7438:b900:b14:b29d:8840:52ea) |
16:22.21 | parazyd | could be probably stripped a bit more, but i like to leave some extra zeroes |
16:22.48 | muep | I am not actually aware of any device that could use armhf but not armel |
16:23.19 | parazyd | muep: it's only the other way |
16:23.27 | parazyd | armel always works everywhere |
16:23.50 | parazyd | (implying the cpu arch is compatible) |
16:24.55 | *** join/#devuan TwistedFate (~TwistedFa@unaffiliated/twistedfate) |
16:24.55 | muep | I guess the calling convention part would work, but if somone made a silly combination like armel calling convention and armv7 instructions, those would not run on rpi 0/1 either |
16:25.52 | parazyd | yep |
16:26.04 | parazyd | i baked a fresh armv6 toolchain for this yesterday |
16:26.07 | telst4r | muep: alright, probably raspbian just got me confused. |
16:26.34 | muep | raspbian does armhf but with armv6 instructions instead of armv7 like stock debian would |
16:26.42 | *** join/#devuan Katnija (~KittenGNU@unaffiliated/kittengnu) |
16:29.01 | telst4r | yes, that's what was confusing me. I heard debian armel works on rpi1 but its "sub-par" somehow |
16:30.32 | muep | debian armel uses armv4 or suchlike, which is also compatible for rpi0/1. it just does not use all the features that an armv6 capable CPU could offer |
16:35.45 | telst4r | Oh, okay. so not all the bells and whistles of a v6 are utilized, but works just fine like on any other arm |
16:40.57 | *** join/#devuan knidos (~knidos@88.246.61.199) |
16:44.24 | parazyd | indeed |
16:44.36 | muep | yes. on some workloads, especially with floating point, it makes a quite large performance difference. but it is compatible anyway |
17:08.09 | *** join/#devuan freemangordon (~ivo@46.249.74.23) |
17:13.29 | *** join/#devuan furrywolf (~randyg@70-0-224-132.pools.spcsdns.net) |
17:22.34 | *** join/#devuan os|t0 (~freenode@2001:388:e001:900::deb8) |
17:26.39 | *** join/#devuan aitor (~aitor@114.62-99-112.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es) |
17:27.13 | aitor | jaromil: you didn't answer to the question of golinux |
17:27.22 | aitor | need to go |
17:28.19 | *** join/#devuan mlsmith (~mlsmith@unaffiliated/configx) |
17:28.31 | Pali | parazyd: rpi1 image? it was very quick since yesterday... |
17:29.13 | Pali | I will be able to test it in next month... I did not think that it will be available for testing in this month! |
17:29.29 | parazyd | :) |
17:29.55 | parazyd | fwiw, i got a login shell, so i'm guessing all is fine |
17:30.34 | Pali | are there plans to use raspbian as upstream source? |
17:30.57 | Pali | that would benefit in speed, to use armhf... |
17:31.18 | *** join/#devuan aitor (~aitor@114.62-99-112.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es) |
17:31.22 | Pali | in such applications like web browser or floating-point audio/video decoding... |
17:31.50 | aitor | why raspbian? |
17:32.25 | Pali | because it compiles armhf DEB packages for armv6 |
17:32.34 | aitor | we must use our own distribution |
17:32.58 | Pali | another option is to recompile all packages for armhf |
17:33.40 | Pali | but raspbian takes packages from debian, so reusing should be easier as recompiling everything... |
17:34.22 | aitor | we must use the tools from devuan |
17:34.52 | *** join/#devuan SylvieLorxu (~TheLastPr@541B7AAC.cm-5-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) |
17:35.07 | Pali | which tools? |
17:35.33 | aitor | it's very easy |
17:35.43 | aitor | debootstrap |
17:36.06 | parazyd | Pali: would need a separate amprolla |
17:36.34 | Pali | I'm just saying that raspbian modify only some packages, others are just recompiled for armv6 armhf |
17:36.38 | aitor | parazyd :) |
17:36.55 | Pali | and devuan will do same, so I think it make sense to reuse those packages as they will be same... |
17:37.16 | Pali | parazyd: ok |
17:39.05 | parazyd | nextime: can amprolla use a different upstream for a specific package architecture? |
17:39.48 | parazyd | if not, consider it a feature request :p |
17:40.16 | Pali | parazyd: what is needed is to have two different armhf architectures |
17:40.25 | Pali | one from debian --> for rpi2+ |
17:40.33 | Pali | and one from raspbian --> for rpi1 |
17:40.56 | Pali | both needs to be named armhf |
17:40.57 | aitor | the biggest problem, IMHO, is in the partitioning..., the rest is done. |
17:41.14 | Pali | so they must be on different uris |
17:41.20 | parazyd | Pali: yeah i'm wondering |
17:41.26 | parazyd | aitor: what partitioning? |
17:42.15 | muep | are the older rpis and rpi0 an important enough an use case to justify doing an entire extra architecture? |
17:42.16 | *** join/#devuan freemangordon (~ivo@46.249.74.23) |
17:42.21 | muep | for anyone else than raspbian, that is |
17:43.06 | parazyd | muep: sure, it doesn't really waste resources |
17:43.09 | aitor | parazyd: one moment |
17:43.13 | parazyd | with amprolla |
17:44.09 | aitor | a friend is calling me on the phone |
17:44.20 | aitor | one minute |
17:44.27 | parazyd | Pali: rethinking it... i guess rpi1 can stick with armel |
17:44.42 | muep | of course it is just nice if that can be done with little or reasonable effort. but I just kind of assumed that it'd be a non-trivial amount of work |
17:44.43 | parazyd | Pali: and then just use the vanilla armhf for maemo/n900 |
17:45.01 | parazyd | Pali: would cut down a lot of work |
17:45.05 | Pali | armhf is incomaptible with maemo |
17:45.20 | Pali | existing maemo applications are armel (armv7-a) |
17:45.39 | aitor | here i am again |
17:46.05 | muep | I wonder how they ended up using armel for a product that uses a cortex-a8 |
17:46.13 | parazyd | Pali: indeed, i rushed a little bit. was thinking more in the way of running devuan on n900 |
17:46.21 | parazyd | which i already provide an image for |
17:47.14 | aitor | i would like to know your opinion about gtk vs qt |
17:49.05 | parazyd | gtk2 > qt4, qt5 > gtk3 |
17:49.06 | Pali | muep: I think binary compatibility with n8x0 applications... |
17:50.52 | aitor | let me assimilate it |
17:53.01 | aitor | who is willing to develop in gtk2? |
17:54.35 | parazyd | aitor: what are you trying to do? |
17:54.57 | aitor | ? |
17:55.22 | aitor | i'm only developing some applications |
17:56.11 | muep | for new applications, qt 5 is a at least a quite sensible pick |
17:56.35 | parazyd | qt5++ |
17:56.56 | muep | though it is a far wider thing than e.g. gtk3 |
17:58.16 | aitor | qt5++ ??? |
17:58.46 | *** join/#devuan telst4r (~telstar@fsf/member/telst4r) |
17:59.12 | Gup | parazyd, thanks for the rpi1 image, will test it now :) |
17:59.32 | parazyd | Gup: cool, let me know |
17:59.34 | aitor | qt uses classes since ever |
18:00.02 | freemangordon | Pali: what is the problem of maemo packages being armel? |
18:00.15 | aitor | classes |
18:00.16 | Pali | incompatibility with armhf |
18:00.42 | freemangordon | Pali: ok, but how's that related to devuan? |
18:00.48 | Pali | debian's armel is armv4... no neon, no thumb2 |
18:01.22 | Pali | so devuan's armel is also armv4 |
18:02.16 | freemangordon | ok, but even if it was armv7, you can't simply install most of the maemo packages an expect them to tun, right? |
18:02.25 | freemangordon | *run |
18:02.54 | aitor | consider the following point: |
18:03.25 | aitor | the lightest Qt desktop is Lxqt |
18:03.46 | aitor | it depends on openbox |
18:03.58 | aitor | and openbox is gtk |
18:03.58 | parazyd | freemangordon: you can recompile them, why not? |
18:04.03 | muep | aitor: is it? |
18:04.08 | aitor | yes |
18:04.17 | muep | I thought openbox mostly uses some custom drawing |
18:04.44 | freemangordon | parazyd: because of the GTK2/hildon dependecies |
18:04.46 | parazyd | aitor: openbox has nothing to do with gtk |
18:04.53 | muep | at least its window menus do not look like gtk menus IIRC |
18:05.12 | parazyd | freemangordon: iirc Pali said there's a way to do it |
18:05.20 | parazyd | rebuild hildon |
18:05.30 | aitor | muep... |
18:05.35 | freemangordon | aah, I see :) |
18:05.36 | aitor | you are wrong |
18:05.45 | parazyd | aitor: openbox uses pango |
18:06.03 | muep | aitor: ldd /usr/bin/openbox|grep -i gtk gives nothing here |
18:06.39 | freemangordon | Pali: I missed the start of the conversation, couldn' t find it in the logs, is it related somehow to what I am doing lately? |
18:06.50 | aitor | i'll upload a video tomorrow |
18:07.08 | aitor | Gnuinos 1 |
18:07.21 | muep | I think there are some config tools for openbox that do use gtk in some way, but those are optional |
18:07.28 | aitor | using a dinamical menu in gtk |
18:07.58 | parazyd | muep: yep, it's obconf usually, but then again obconf can be compiled for qt if needed |
18:08.19 | muep | they have two UI implementations? |
18:08.23 | parazyd | yes |
18:08.40 | parazyd | lxqt ported it |
18:08.45 | parazyd | from gtk |
18:08.49 | muep | impressive |
18:12.40 | *** join/#devuan DanMc (~dan@2602:306:c519:8c60:72f1:a1ff:fe6c:d505) |
18:14.20 | aitor | it's been a long time since i don't use lxqt; so, i can't give my opinion |
18:16.06 | parazyd | aitor: what do you use now? |
18:16.15 | aitor | openbox |
18:16.49 | parazyd | i like it a lot |
18:16.59 | aitor | me too |
18:17.41 | parazyd | although i use dwm only |
18:17.53 | *** join/#devuan n4dir (~user@pD9EF0F49.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
18:20.49 | aitor | a simple custom widget using a css file with transparencies might be the main window of a Devuan-based upstream for Maemo |
18:24.42 | *** join/#devuan mlsmith (~mlsmith@unaffiliated/configx) |
18:24.44 | aitor | parazyd: i saw your video recorded with your C code |
18:25.22 | aitor | which WM? |
18:25.23 | parazyd | aitor: which one? |
18:25.33 | parazyd | dwm |
18:25.39 | parazyd | http://dwm.suckless.org |
18:25.40 | freemangordon | aitor: we are trying to port hildon to gtk3 |
18:25.51 | aitor | What means dwm |
18:26.01 | parazyd | see the link |
18:26.24 | parazyd | freemangordon: lovely :) |
18:27.06 | freemangordon | the last couple of weeks I am REing the closed maemo blobs, today I finished the last one needed (so far) - iphbd |
18:27.32 | freemangordon | I have it running right now on my pc in chroot (started by dsme) |
18:28.00 | freemangordon | another guy is doing the porting job. Lets see how it will go :) |
18:28.55 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-50-207.clienti.tiscali.it) |
18:29.05 | parazyd | freemangordon: btw what ended up with the init thing you were mentioning in #maemo yesterday? |
18:29.12 | parazyd | going for upstart? |
18:29.34 | aitor | freemangordon, i just saw it in internet |
18:30.16 | freemangordon | parazyd: well, *SOMEHOW* I managed to install it, but as Pali told me, it refused to work :D - init wants PID 1 |
18:30.32 | parazyd | yes you can't init in a chroot |
18:30.36 | freemangordon | yeah |
18:30.51 | parazyd | you can qemu though |
18:30.51 | freemangordon | so at the end I started dsme by hand |
18:30.55 | parazyd | it would work |
18:31.05 | parazyd | make a raw image out of the chroot |
18:31.10 | freemangordon | yeah, but that will be the next step I guess |
18:31.13 | Pali | init daemon just spawn services |
18:31.15 | parazyd | then you can mount it whenever you need to make changes |
18:31.18 | Pali | and dsme is service |
18:31.23 | parazyd | freemangordon: but why upstart? |
18:31.25 | Pali | so you can spawn it also manually |
18:31.28 | freemangordon | aitor: which one? |
18:31.39 | freemangordon | parazyd: because this is what maemo uses |
18:31.40 | Pali | no need to install and run heavy SW like init daemon to only start some service.... |
18:32.02 | parazyd | i'd rather switch to runit |
18:32.07 | parazyd | tbh |
18:32.39 | freemangordon | TBH I have no clue, so will do what knowledgeable say :) |
18:33.09 | parazyd | it's a lot lighter on the resources than upstart (gentoo says) |
18:33.38 | freemangordon | parazyd: I suspect upstart in maemo is not the same as upstart in debian, thus much lighter ;) |
18:33.55 | Pali | yes, upstart in maemo is not same as upstart in debian/ubuntu... |
18:33.58 | parazyd | could be, i never looked at the package source |
18:34.28 | parazyd | yeah and i guess for the sake of keeping initscripts it's good |
18:34.29 | Pali | anyway, maemo uses dsme for monitoring lot of applications |
18:34.51 | freemangordon | actually all the deamons asaik |
18:34.55 | freemangordon | *afaik |
18:35.01 | Pali | and some are monitored by upstart itself |
18:35.18 | freemangordon | Pali: which one besides dsme itself? |
18:35.31 | *** join/#devuan Kruppt (~Krupptus@50.111.18.229) |
18:35.31 | aitor | freemangordon: http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt4_Hildon/Qt_Hildon_Widgets |
18:35.35 | Pali | upstart control dsme |
18:36.21 | Pali | so for maemo applications/system we can use any init daemon... monitoring is done by dsme and not by pid 1 init daemon |
18:36.40 | parazyd | interesting |
18:36.42 | freemangordon | aitor: oh, this is qt hildon widgets, but hildon itself (and "native" applications) are GTK |
18:36.49 | parazyd | so you could even go with sinit :D |
18:37.01 | freemangordon | what about systemd? :p |
18:37.04 | freemangordon | hides |
18:37.08 | parazyd | yeah, no... |
18:37.15 | Pali | parazyd: any init system which can start /etc/init.d/ scripts |
18:37.44 | freemangordon | Pali: wait, who uses /etc/event.d? isn't it upstart? |
18:37.52 | Pali | upstart |
18:38.18 | freemangordon | but isn't that maemo specific? |
18:38.21 | Pali | but if you look at /etc/event.d/ script those are just shell scripts... with some logging information |
18:38.38 | Pali | what? |
18:39.21 | freemangordon | no /etc/event.d on my ubuntu machine |
18:39.54 | aitor | ok: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/pre-alpha2/apis/libhildon-2.1.34/hildon-hildon-gtk.html |
18:41.02 | freemangordon | aitor: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/hildon/ |
18:41.04 | aitor | parazyd, freemangordon, Pali and company: need to go :) |
18:41.12 | Pali | aitor: hildon is library based on gtk2 |
18:41.28 | Pali | and needs modified gtk2 |
18:41.43 | Pali | this is important! original gtk2 cannot be used |
18:41.47 | freemangordon | Pali: I really hope android808 to be able to port it to gtk3 |
18:41.49 | aitor | ok, i saved the link |
18:42.06 | *** join/#devuan newic (~newic@ANancy-654-1-116-61.w92-138.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
18:42.09 | Pali | freemangordon: hildon to port for gtk3? |
18:42.38 | Pali | I'm not sure if this is possible... as hildon itself needs patched gtk... |
18:42.42 | freemangordon | Pali: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=96800 |
18:42.43 | aitor | see you tomorrow, need to go |
18:42.50 | freemangordon | aitor: night |
18:42.54 | newic | hello |
18:43.02 | aitor | :) |
18:43.06 | Pali | anyway, there is already some gtk3 port for hildon |
18:43.12 | Pali | done by cordia |
18:43.14 | freemangordon | Pali: we can reuse part of cordia |
18:43.25 | Pali | yes |
18:43.30 | freemangordon | no, as they removed mce etc |
18:43.40 | freemangordon | but some stuff can be reused |
18:43.55 | Pali | yes, reuse parts |
18:46.42 | freemangordon | parazyd: is thre any progress on "custom packages build" in the sdk? |
18:48.04 | parazyd | freemangordon: i have some templates which allows you to build them with a makefile |
18:48.14 | parazyd | but it's not yet ready to push |
18:48.18 | freemangordon | ok |
18:48.30 | parazyd | perhaps in a week or three |
18:48.45 | freemangordon | no hurry |
18:53.45 | *** join/#devuan Katnija (~KittenGNU@unaffiliated/kittengnu) |
18:53.55 | newic | is there somebody who called Anna here ? |
18:59.57 | *** join/#devuan aitor (~aitor@114.62-99-112.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es) |
19:00.35 | aitor | try in #debianfork |
19:01.59 | *** join/#devuan aitor (~aitor@114.62-99-112.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es) |
19:02.36 | aitor | really, need to go... see you tomorrow :) |
19:03.37 | *** join/#devuan antofox1 (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-50-207.clienti.tiscali.it) |
19:13.34 | *** join/#devuan premoboss (~utente@91.252.94.212) |
19:38.17 | *** join/#devuan mlsmith (~mlsmith@unaffiliated/configx) |
19:40.20 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox1 (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-41-216.clienti.tiscali.it) |
19:43.29 | *** join/#devuan mlsmith (~mlsmith@unaffiliated/configx) |
19:43.42 | *** join/#devuan mlsmith_ (~mlsmith@unaffiliated/configx) |
19:44.34 | *** join/#devuan mlsmith (~mlsmith@unaffiliated/configx) |
19:48.51 | *** join/#devuan furrywolf (~randyg@70-0-224-132.pools.spcsdns.net) |
20:00.56 | *** join/#devuan DusXMT (~dusxmt@195.12.144.254) |
20:04.12 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox1 (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-56-21.clienti.tiscali.it) |
20:16.37 | *** join/#devuan devil (~quassel@2a01:238:43b2:2300:4074:d967:4ee0:f1ca) |
20:20.28 | *** join/#devuan bill-auger (~quassel@75-138-187-221.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) |
20:42.18 | *** join/#devuan devil_ (~quassel@2a01:238:43b2:2300:4074:d967:4ee0:f1ca) |
20:43.11 | *** join/#devuan devil_ (~quassel@2a01:238:43b2:2300:4074:d967:4ee0:f1ca) |
21:16.02 | *** join/#devuan Katnija (~KittenGNU@unaffiliated/kittengnu) |
21:17.38 | *** join/#devuan rho_ (ama@shell.bshellz.net) |
21:30.45 | *** join/#devuan antofox1 (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-56-21.clienti.tiscali.it) |
21:44.40 | *** join/#devuan premoboss (~utente@37.227.227.226) |
21:44.45 | *** join/#devuan aleskandro (~aleskandr@host12-100-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
21:48.22 | *** join/#devuan aleskandro (~aleskandr@host12-100-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
21:59.19 | *** join/#devuan clopez (~tau@neutrino.es) |
22:16.57 | *** join/#devuan golinux (~golinux@unaffiliated/golinux) |
22:45.09 | *** join/#devuan cyteen (~cyteen@cyteen42.plus.com) |
22:57.18 | *** join/#devuan minnesotags (~herbgarci@2603:3016:1e01:7500:222:faff:fe54:322e) |
22:58.46 | *** join/#devuan devil (~quassel@2a01:238:43b2:2300:4074:d967:4ee0:f1ca) |
23:02.04 | *** join/#devuan |narcos| (uid99359@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ccupizpcilredqdi) |
23:23.15 | *** join/#devuan knidos (~knidos@88.246.61.199) |
23:37.42 | *** join/#devuan pencilandpaper (~penciland@unaffiliated/pencilandpaper) |