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| 01:00.19 | parazyd | Centurion_Dan: how can i obtain the network-manager package? the one that's not systemd-dependent |
| 01:02.01 | fsmithred | parazyd, deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/devuan jessie-proposed main contrib non-free |
| 01:02.16 | fsmithred | maybe just main |
| 01:02.20 | parazyd | ack |
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| 01:05.33 | sedrosken | So, this sounds like it's a bit different from Debian -- what repos should I add to get a basically functional system? Is it the same contrib/nonfree system, with the added proposed bit? |
| 01:05.51 | fsmithred | no |
| 01:05.52 | sedrosken | It's actually been a while since I've used Debian or anything basing off of it |
| 01:06.09 | fsmithred | proposed is for stuff that hasn't made it into the main repo yet |
| 01:06.17 | fsmithred | add it if you want to test and report |
| 01:06.26 | sedrosken | oh cool |
| 01:06.37 | fsmithred | for stable, functional system, what you get with install will work. |
| 01:06.47 | fsmithred | and if you only get main, you can add contrib and non-free |
| 01:07.08 | sedrosken | can I add certain normal Debian repos, like the ones that have binary packages for games? it'd be insane for them to depend on systemd, after all |
| 01:07.36 | fsmithred | the way it works is most packages get pulled from debian repo, and the changed packages in devuan get merged |
| 01:07.42 | fsmithred | into a single repo |
| 01:07.43 | sedrosken | ahhh okay |
| 01:07.48 | fsmithred | no, do not add debian repos |
| 01:07.51 | fsmithred | or you will be sorry |
| 01:08.02 | sedrosken | not even the drdteam one for GZDoom? |
| 01:08.14 | fsmithred | debian repo does not know which packages NOT to install |
| 01:08.23 | sedrosken | hmm. okay |
| 01:08.27 | sedrosken | that kind of sucks |
| 01:08.28 | fsmithred | I have no idea what you're talking about |
| 01:08.41 | sedrosken | but I suppose I can pull the deb files for what i want and just use dpkg |
| 01:08.55 | fsmithred | if it's an outside repo that just delivers their own packages, like oracle does with virtualbox, then probably yes. |
| 01:09.15 | sedrosken | yeah thats what i meant |
| 01:09.23 | golinux | If you use Debian repos there could be unintended consequences |
| 01:09.55 | sedrosken | hmm. |
| 01:09.59 | golinux | So at your own risk. |
| 01:10.09 | golinux | And don't come whining here. ;) |
| 01:10.49 | sedrosken | well, I like to think I know what I'm doing to a certain extent... we'll give it a whirl with the games I play, I'll tell how it goes, but if it goes bad I can just reformat/reinstall, not a big deal |
| 01:11.00 | sedrosken | I have a separate /home so it wouldn't get nuked |
| 01:11.43 | sedrosken | going to try it on a throwaway machine before I do it on my head honcho |
| 01:11.44 | fsmithred | in that case, it might be fun if you have some spare time |
| 01:12.39 | sedrosken | yeah, sounds like a fun way to kill a weekend |
| 01:12.47 | fsmithred | I prefer letting them all go through the devuan filter |
| 01:13.03 | sedrosken | I plan on using Devuan with runit and the linux-ck kernel if I can. |
| 01:13.07 | fsmithred | something like a water purification plant |
| 01:13.27 | sedrosken | I dunno if there's a version of that kernel for Debian/Devuan or not, but I'll certainly check it out |
| 01:13.36 | fsmithred | there are some folks on the dng mailing list with similar interests |
| 01:13.40 | fsmithred | check the archives |
| 01:13.52 | fsmithred | the runit, I mean |
| 01:14.14 | sedrosken | I find it's about 5-10% quicker than stock on my machine, especially if I use the one specifically meant for my CPU |
| 01:14.42 | sedrosken | and with what is essentially a souped up i3 I need all the extra performance I can get. |
| 01:15.08 | sedrosken | I have a haswell-u cpu, the 4300U. |
| 01:15.51 | sedrosken | I'm excited because I'm coming from Arch -- in comparison, Debian and I'm assuming Devuan as well seemed to run rings around it in RAM consumption among other things. |
| 01:16.19 | sedrosken | what takes 140MB in arch takes about 70 on Debian, from what I can tell. |
| 01:16.42 | fsmithred | I've been running devuan for a year, and it acts just like debian used to. |
| 01:17.01 | sedrosken | doesn't sound like a lot of difference but I still regularly use machines with 2GB or less of RAM, which Arch doesn't seem to cater to anymore |
| 01:17.12 | fsmithred | wow |
| 01:17.21 | fsmithred | 2GB here |
| 01:17.49 | sedrosken | usually I can keep from hitting swap but then I use an over-the-hill WM and limit my tab count in Chromium. |
| 01:18.04 | fsmithred | I allow 384MB ram for a devuan VM, and it's enough to run the desktop (without a web browser) |
| 01:18.10 | sedrosken | IceWM... apparently the last stable release was in 2007? |
| 01:18.18 | fsmithred | huh? |
| 01:18.24 | sedrosken | that's what I use for a WM |
| 01:18.27 | sedrosken | IceWM |
| 01:18.51 | fsmithred | wow, I have noticed that it hasn't changed much, but I didn't realize it's 10 years old |
| 01:19.11 | sedrosken | oh yeah absolutely 384MB is enough for a no-web browser desktop |
| 01:19.39 | fsmithred | kde is unhappy with that |
| 01:19.43 | sedrosken | like I said, I run at about 140MB used on Arch even once I bootup to an IceWM session with properly configured consolekit and dbus |
| 01:19.53 | sedrosken | (i use arch-openrc) |
| 01:20.50 | sedrosken | and I have some bells and whistles that I could live without too like a wallpaper, a systray pulseaudio controller, nm-applet, and blueman-applet |
| 01:21.33 | sedrosken | all things I could live without, but it'd be a massive pain in the butt |
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| 01:22.19 | golinux | If packages don't go through the Devuan 'filter' you might get bit by a debian upgrade |
| 01:22.51 | golinux | Devuan has its own version control |
| 01:23.10 | fsmithred | and that would be unpredictable and possibly non-reproducible. |
| 01:23.51 | sedrosken | yeah that would suck, a lot. but certainly a games repo won't pull in a debian install? |
| 01:24.36 | fsmithred | no, it shouldn't |
| 01:24.42 | sedrosken | I mean, I can manually pull the debs and install that way, but keeping it updated it going to be a pain in the butt |
| 01:24.57 | golinux | sedrosken: If you want a minimal system look at this: http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu/ |
| 01:25.07 | fsmithred | use --simulate |
| 01:26.49 | sedrosken | That's a cool little project but not what I'm looking for. I'll just configure a base Devuan install and tailor it to each machine I have it on, it won't take that long. |
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| 10:32.49 | Gup | just done a test migration from debian jesie to devuan jessie on a rackspace virtual server, all seems to have gone well, but a couple of cloud util packages were uninstalled during the dist-upgrade. I'm trying to reinstall them but they are failing on dependancies. The weird thing is that the dependancies are already installed!! https://pad.riseup.net/p/rackspace_devuan |
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| 11:09.40 | Hestben | Gup: That sounds strange |
| 11:10.02 | Hestben | What is the policy of the packages you are trying to install (apt-cache policy <package>) |
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| 11:29.15 | Gup | oh i destroyed the server, let me rebuild... |
| 11:40.30 | Gup | Hestben, ok, i've added the policy output for a package and also for a dep to https://pad.riseup.net/p/rackspace_devuan |
| 11:46.40 | Gup | curious.. same issue on my local machine.. not that i need cloud-utils here. this is a clean beta2 install rather than a cloud migration, so, guess that means its nothing to do with potentual migration mess |
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| 12:00.03 | telmich | good evening |
| 12:01.33 | telmich | What'? the current status of devuan? is it by any chance already usable for servers? |
| 12:01.45 | parazyd | absolutely yes |
| 12:02.01 | parazyd | runs in production on all our servers |
| 12:02.17 | parazyd | stable as (something very stable) |
| 12:02.19 | telmich | We are considering to use ubuntu 16.., but when seeing that systemd-resolved is now enabled, it gave us the final kick to look for a non systemd platform |
| 12:02.33 | telmich | that sounds great, parazyd! |
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| 12:10.16 | Gup | hey parazyd, any chance to look at the rpi kernel dt issues? |
| 12:10.40 | Gup | someone had similar issue and i think he solved it, but i cant work out how to build a kernel like he did |
| 12:11.23 | Gup | maybe gives you the missing piece of the puzzle? |
| 12:13.03 | parazyd | Gup: sorry my connection dropped. did you paste a link? |
| 12:13.24 | Gup | https://git.devuan.org/sdk/arm-sdk/issues/2 |
| 12:13.43 | Gup | links to the other possibly related issue from there |
| 12:14.55 | parazyd | thanks i'll take a look |
| 12:15.04 | parazyd | i haven't looked |
| 12:15.16 | parazyd | but i'm due to refresh all the images so i'll apply as much as i can |
| 12:15.38 | parazyd | sorry for the long delay, it's just that other things have caught me up |
| 12:15.40 | Gup | awesome cheers :) |
| 12:16.00 | Gup | no worries, appreciate the work |
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| 12:59.14 | Hestben | Gup: Hmm, I get the same error when trying to install those packages |
| 12:59.41 | Hestben | So, you will have to wait for somebody else that knows more... |
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| 14:41.09 | clemens3_ | working to get away from mac. Now on os-x 10.11, and there's such nice things as cloudd writing into the system log... of course, i never applied for the icloud... |
| 14:41.22 | clemens3_ | of course, preaching to the converted.. |
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| 14:42.59 | clemens3_ | some days ago i wanted to delete something, no, created a directory as root, couldn't do it, just error message failed... turns out there is some super do not change system area safety net. Problem is, it should say so. Had to reboot, hold some magic keys, terminal, turn it off... at least when root fails it should say why it fails... |
| 14:43.31 | clemens3_ | ah, is called system integrity protection |
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| 14:52.43 | Gup | Hestben, cool cheers for confirming.. i'm sure someone will know |
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| 15:52.39 | parazyd | who here said that he/she used surf as a web browser? |
| 15:53.55 | KatolaZ | parazyd: wasme |
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| 15:54.18 | KatolaZ | or at least, I said it somewhere in DNG a few days ago |
| 15:54.22 | parazyd | ah tool |
| 15:54.34 | parazyd | yeah it segfaulted on me but just figured out it was grsec :) |
| 15:54.39 | KatolaZ | :D |
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| 15:54.46 | KatolaZ | wow |
| 15:56.13 | user1__ | Had a Question about GNOME on Devuan. Is it stripped of Systemd dependency or will it drag systemd into Devuan ? |
| 15:56.25 | parazyd | KatolaZ: best part is, it segfaults on 0xbbadbeef |
| 15:56.26 | parazyd | i rofld |
| 15:56.42 | KatolaZ | AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH |
| 15:56.44 | KatolaZ | AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH |
| 15:56.47 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 15:56.49 | KatolaZ | LOL |
| 15:59.01 | parazyd | KatolaZ: https://pub.parazyd.cf/dev/random/beef.png |
| 16:00.22 | DeFender | user1__, as far as I understand, it is impossible to "drag systemd into Devuan" (unless of course you're mixing non-devuan repos which themselves have a systemd package into your sources, which would mean you're no longer really running devuan). |
| 16:00.28 | KatolaZ | AHAHAHAHAH |
| 16:00.38 | KatolaZ | com'n parazyd, you made it up! |
| 16:00.39 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 16:01.24 | parazyd | what? |
| 16:01.28 | parazyd | hahaha |
| 16:01.49 | golinux | user1_: Gnome cannot be installed without systemd. |
| 16:02.11 | golinux | If you want Gnome use debian or their systemd'd derivatives. |
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| 16:02.44 | golinux | There is a Mate (Gnome 2) option being maintained by Anto Fox |
| 16:02.58 | user1__ | Thanks Defender... No I was just wondering about straight Devuan... Because Devuan is Debian without systemd but able to support systemd too. Or I though it was claimed that way. I wanted to try Gnome but I knew it wast dependent on systemd before. |
| 16:03.21 | user1__ | Yeah... Mate looks good too. |
| 16:03.44 | user1__ | Thanks golinux... Forgot about that... |
| 16:05.53 | DeFender | i wasn't aware that systemd was even an option on devuan. |
| 16:06.57 | user1__ | I am not sure either.. It was mentioned that Devuan was not against systemd just that it would not defualt to using it.. Or I think that was how things started. |
| 16:07.13 | DeFender | but now i see that the gnome package is showing up, and I'm wondering the same thing as user1__, namely what would happen if one tried to install it. Time to pull out apt-get -s. |
| 16:07.33 | user1__ | Exactly... |
| 16:07.52 | KatolaZ | there is no systemd-init in devuan repos, AFAIK |
| 16:08.07 | KatolaZ | if you want a Devuan with systemd, you already have Debian |
| 16:08.09 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 16:08.17 | DeFender | user1__, apt-get install -s gnome responds with a "The following packages have unmet dependencies" error. |
| 16:08.17 | KatolaZ | there is no point to use Devuan with systemd |
| 16:08.32 | DeFender | KatolaZ, yeah, that's what i thought. |
| 16:08.34 | golinux | Some folks early on tried to disentangle Gnome from systemd. But what is the point? If you want Gnome just use Debian |
| 16:08.36 | KatolaZ | since Devuan is Debian without systemd |
| 16:08.50 | KatolaZ | and Debian - systemd + systemd = Debian |
| 16:09.25 | KatolaZ | well golinux |
| 16:09.32 | KatolaZ | it is not that straight, I s'pose |
| 16:09.35 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 16:09.48 | KatolaZ | you might want to use gnome in devuan |
| 16:09.55 | KatolaZ | only, it is not possible atm |
| 16:10.00 | KatolaZ | due to the systemd deps |
| 16:10.02 | DeFender | golinux, given that gnome suffers from some of the same... shall we call it... "flawed development philosophy" that systemd suffers from, it seems that the set of people to whome one is of interest without the other would be minimal anyway. |
| 16:10.26 | KatolaZ | (and I am not interested in GNOME at all, BTW) |
| 16:11.08 | KatolaZ | (we could have stripped it off Devuan, together with KDE and a bunch of other stuff right now, if it was on me :D) |
| 16:11.47 | DeFender | anyway, user1__, based on this broken packages message, it seems that what I said originally is correct. It won't pull in systemd, it'll just fail to resolve and not install. |
| 16:11.49 | user1__ | Well on install it is listed as a possible desktop... Or at least as I recall.. |
| 16:12.20 | DeFender | KatolaZ, y u no lik KDE? |
| 16:13.28 | golinux | Well, golinux doesn't for sure |
| 16:14.35 | parazyd | gnomwe mostly works with openrc |
| 16:14.44 | parazyd | but needs some patching |
| 16:14.59 | golinux | paraz |
| 16:15.07 | golinux | Jeesh . . |
| 16:15.30 | parazyd | what? |
| 16:15.33 | golinux | parazyd: This inquiring mind would like to know why? |
| 16:15.40 | parazyd | why what? |
| 16:15.40 | golinux | Just because?? |
| 16:15.49 | golinux | Would you install gnome |
| 16:16.06 | parazyd | i wouldn't. but just saying gentoo made it work without systemd |
| 16:16.32 | parazyd | which means devuan could have it if someone wants to maintain it |
| 16:16.32 | golinux | Ah, I thought you'd done it on devuan. |
| 16:19.31 | parazyd | gosh no |
| 16:21.25 | KatolaZ | DeFender: the last version of KDE I have managed to use was 1.2 :P |
| 16:21.38 | KatolaZ | after that, it went downhill |
| 16:21.45 | KatolaZ | terribly downhill |
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| 16:41.09 | user1__ | Hey Mate also has a systemd dependency didn't it ? Anyone recall that ? |
| 16:42.04 | sedrosken__ | it does but i think there's a fork of certain packages within that use the alternatives |
| 16:42.05 | golinux | Not the one in the devuan repos |
| 16:42.07 | parazyd | antofox has a repo |
| 16:42.21 | sedrosken__ | bbiab |
| 16:42.40 | user1__ | These DE's are listed on the install and so I was wondering what happens when people select them. |
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| 16:45.56 | golinux | They have unmet dependencies |
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| 17:37.49 | sgage | I installed Devuan jessie from the Beta 2 CD and selected MATE. No evidence of unmet dependencies. Or systemd. |
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| 17:39.52 | delirein | hello |
| 17:40.16 | delirein | i have a question: is it possible and somewhat safe to use devuan testing repos? |
| 17:40.17 | KatolaZ | MATE is free of systemd deps, AFAIR |
| 17:40.55 | KatolaZ | delirein: testing repos have not received much care so far |
| 17:41.05 | Centurion_Dan | KatolaZ: not in devuan yet. |
| 17:41.22 | KatolaZ | ops, thanks Centurion_Dan |
| 17:41.52 | delirein | okay, so it's better to use normal + backports then? |
| 17:43.03 | Guest8364 | stable |
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| 18:18.12 | leafwiz | If I can ask, what is the name of the package for docker? I have some software I would like to try, but it best to install it using docker. I have found docker-compose, but I seems I can not use that to run my docker app. I'm new to the docker concept. |
| 18:18.37 | leafwiz | It seems it wants the plain docker |
| 18:19.36 | muep | you don't have plain "docker" available? |
| 18:20.33 | leafwiz | I have "docker - System tray for KDE3/GNOME2 docklet application" |
| 18:20.48 | leafwiz | but it does not seem right? does it? |
| 18:20.53 | muep | that's a different thing |
| 18:20.57 | leafwiz | yeah |
| 18:21.10 | leafwiz | so the next thing is docker-compose |
| 18:21.25 | muep | is it installable? |
| 18:22.10 | leafwiz | yeah, I have installed docker-compose |
| 18:22.23 | leafwiz | with it i get the docker-compose binary |
| 18:22.37 | muep | at least debian jessie does not seem to have docker-compose either |
| 18:22.37 | leafwiz | but the guieds refer to docker wihtout the compose |
| 18:23.01 | muep | so I wonder where yours is coming |
| 18:23.03 | leafwiz | But I dunno if docker compose is a upgraded version of docker, or of it a seperate thing |
| 18:23.11 | muep | it is a separate thing |
| 18:23.20 | leafwiz | ascii/ceres |
| 18:23.26 | leafwiz | I run that version |
| 18:23.28 | leafwiz | of devuan |
| 18:24.07 | muep | ok, so maybe there is no plain docker yet in debian. you can get it from a package repo provided by docker inc |
| 18:24.40 | leafwiz | aha.. so if I want to add a repo, can I follow the guides for debian jessie_ |
| 18:24.41 | leafwiz | ? |
| 18:24.42 | muep | see https://docs.docker.com/engine/installation/linux/debian/ |
| 18:25.21 | leafwiz | How does that work? With external repos that has been tested on debian with devuan. |
| 18:25.36 | leafwiz | So it all go, as long as it does not depend on systemd ? |
| 18:25.51 | KatolaZ | wait |
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| 18:26.03 | KatolaZ | It seems like the docker runtime is in docker.io? |
| 18:26.10 | muep | I would not expect them at docker.com to necessarily test it with devuan, so proceed with some caution |
| 18:26.16 | KatolaZ | (I have no experience whatsoever in docker) |
| 18:26.31 | KatolaZ | docker.io - Linux container runtime |
| 18:26.36 | leafwiz | muep: yeah, proceeds with caution |
| 18:26.51 | KatolaZ | this is the only relevant thing returned by apt-cache search docker |
| 18:26.57 | muep | hm yeah, docker.io seems like the thing |
| 18:27.20 | leafwiz | I don't get that package with my search |
| 18:27.30 | muep | it is called just docker in many other distros, but in debian there is this system tray thing |
| 18:27.38 | muep | in debian it only seems to be in unstable |
| 18:27.57 | KatolaZ | maybe I got it through backports then |
| 18:28.17 | leafwiz | muep: aha.. ceres is the same as testing in debian_ |
| 18:28.17 | leafwiz | ? |
| 18:28.50 | muep | leafwiz: I am not absolutely sure but if yes and debian testing does not have it, your ceres might not have it either |
| 18:29.56 | leafwiz | muep: yeah, oki. But I can probably find a way to install it. Or maybe not if it depends on to many things |
| 18:30.39 | KatolaZ | leafwiz: ceres is the same as unstable (sid) in Debian |
| 18:30.42 | KatolaZ | ~Debian |
| 18:34.40 | leafwiz | KatolaZ: Ahh.. I became a bit confuzed of the ascii/ceres. What do I run ? :p since both ascii and ceres is listed under devuan_version |
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| 18:35.24 | muep | leafwiz: what do you have in your sources.list ? |
| 18:35.31 | leafwiz | ascii |
| 18:35.38 | leafwiz | So i run ascii then |
| 18:44.22 | Gup | any repo/package guru's about? ;) cloud-utils wont install; unmet deps. but the deps are in fact met as far as i can tell: https://pad.riseup.net/p/rackspace_devuan |
| 18:44.48 | Gup | started off on my rackspace box, but seems to be the same issue on my local installs too |
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| 18:48.14 | KatolaZ | Gup: let me try |
| 18:48.20 | KatolaZ | do you have backports enabled? |
| 18:49.55 | KatolaZ | it would work on my installation |
| 18:50.24 | KatolaZ | Gup: any chance you are mixing repos up? |
| 18:50.35 | KatolaZ | (just asking) |
| 18:50.55 | Gup | no backports or mixed repos on the fresh install |
| 18:51.14 | Gup | proposed and backports here but pinned low pri |
| 18:51.22 | Centurion_Dan | Gup: I suspect the issue is with util-linux which probably has dependency issues. |
| 18:52.12 | KatolaZ | wait, it would like to install the backport version.... |
| 18:52.18 | KatolaZ | that's probably why is working |
| 18:52.22 | KatolaZ | in my case |
| 18:53.01 | KatolaZ | same problem over here |
| 18:53.09 | KatolaZ | if I force version 0.26-2 |
| 18:53.17 | KatolaZ | apt-get install --simulate cloud-utils=0.26-2 |
| 18:53.19 | KatolaZ | .... |
| 18:53.32 | KatolaZ | The following packages have unmet dependencies: |
| 18:53.32 | KatolaZ | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:53.32 | KatolaZ | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:53.32 | KatolaZ | E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. |
| 18:53.34 | Gup | hmmm, ok, so backports might be a workaround, i would have preferred to stay stable as this is a test for a production server |
| 18:53.49 | KatolaZ | Gup: in theory backports are still stable... |
| 18:53.51 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 18:53.51 | Gup | a small prod servcer mid you so i dont mind a low risk ;) |
| 18:54.01 | Gup | s/mid/mind |
| 18:54.15 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 18:54.58 | KatolaZ | version 0.29 from bpo would install without problems, apparently |
| 18:55.10 | KatolaZ | gotta go |
| 18:55.12 | KatolaZ | SYL |
| 18:56.40 | Gup | yeah installs ok from backports :D |
| 18:56.48 | Gup | thanks |
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| 19:04.17 | leafwiz | so, fyi. It seemed I just had to download the .deb file for strech and do a dpkg -i to get docker running. |
| 19:04.21 | leafwiz | https://apt.dockerproject.org/repo/pool/main/d/docker-engine/ |
| 19:04.25 | leafwiz | where I found the .deb |
| 19:05.53 | leafwiz | Using the repo was a bit painfull . got errors , but install of the debfile went well. |
| 19:06.09 | leafwiz | It just for my laptop, so |
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| 19:11.27 | leafwiz | do you guys know of lbzip2? |
| 19:11.47 | leafwiz | if not check it out. It is pretty cool |
| 19:12.32 | leafwiz | If you are archiving larger amounts of data |
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| 20:30.48 | aitor | hola, me tengo que ir porque tengo mucha prisa |
| 20:30.50 | aitor | brb |
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| 22:19.32 | TwistedFate | can i install devuan on my usb stick? |
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| 22:30.20 | syco_ | TwistedFate, google says yes ... pasting your question |
| 22:30.40 | syco_ | https://devuan.org/os/documentation/install |
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| 22:46.24 | aitor | TwistedFated: you have several ways for a persistant installation |
| 22:46.41 | aitor | refracta-tools, debian-installer... |
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