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| 03:33.42 | Se7en | I keep having dificulty with swap space |
| 03:33.51 | Se7en | I don't know the reason nor if it is a well-known bug |
| 03:34.01 | Se7en | But it beaks apt |
| 03:34.07 | Se7en | And therefore hinders kernel upgrades |
| 03:34.15 | gnarface | you mean you don't have enough swap? |
| 03:34.30 | Se7en | Apt reports that idon't have enough space left on the device |
| 03:34.46 | gnarface | well that doesn't sound like a swap problem |
| 03:34.58 | Se7en | And due to other things happening (such as dameons seg faulting) I also assume that it is linked to swap space |
| 03:35.12 | gnarface | that seems like a strange assumption |
| 03:35.38 | gnarface | did you check to see if there's actually enough space left on the non-swap part of the device? keep in mind ext4 reserves 5% by default... |
| 03:38.32 | Se7en | Well I have confirmed that Swap fills up nonetheless. Also my computer just froze for 3 minutes while I was talking to you |
| 03:38.46 | gnarface | yikes |
| 03:39.09 | gnarface | that might be a separate issue, with or without a related cause |
| 03:39.14 | Se7en | It appears that the system has dificulty with allocation of space |
| 03:39.44 | gnarface | df -h |
| 03:40.05 | gnarface | see anything with over 90% usage? |
| 03:40.07 | Se7en | I keep having to clear swap using bleachbit |
| 03:40.16 | Se7en | /dev/mapper/workstation--vg-var 2.7G 2.4G 193M 93% /var |
| 03:40.25 | gnarface | not good |
| 03:40.57 | gnarface | something is causing that |
| 03:41.00 | gnarface | probably |
| 03:41.15 | gnarface | well, it might just be a bit small too |
| 03:41.21 | gnarface | mine is 2.5G |
| 03:41.43 | gnarface | oh that's apt-cache |
| 03:41.52 | Se7en | ZMine is 2.7G |
| 03:42.04 | gnarface | there's some way to tell apt to use less ram anyway |
| 03:42.17 | gnarface | apt or apt-get |
| 03:42.21 | gnarface | i forget exactly how |
| 03:42.25 | Se7en | I usually run apt |
| 03:42.30 | Se7en | not apt-get |
| 03:44.19 | Se7en | The big thing is |
| 03:44.33 | Se7en | Is this only my comp or is it due to a bug with the beta OS |
| 03:46.48 | Se7en | Usually the first dameon to segfualt because of this is the tor dameon |
| 03:49.59 | gnarface | oh, no i think something is quite wrong with your setup, that's my guess, but i don't know for sure |
| 03:50.28 | gnarface | the problem you seem to be having, i've only seen with either a memory leak or just not enough ram (less than 250 *megabytes*) |
| 03:51.36 | Se7en | gnarface, not a problem with I have 512 MiB |
| 03:51.44 | Se7en | oops |
| 03:51.45 | gnarface | 512MB? |
| 03:51.49 | Se7en | yeah |
| 03:52.00 | Se7en | I used to have 2.5GB but one of the ram sticks fried |
| 03:52.01 | gnarface | might still be too low these days, could be pushing it... google that apt option |
| 03:52.06 | Se7en | So now I'm back down to 512 |
| 03:52.19 | gnarface | there is an apt option that will make it operate with less ram |
| 03:52.36 | gnarface | the problem is it's assuming you've got more ram than the downloaded cache of updates, or something like that |
| 03:52.58 | gnarface | like it tries to do too much at once |
| 03:53.21 | gnarface | you don't want /var/ filling up either though, keep an eye on that |
| 03:54.14 | Se7en | It apparently is storing the cache in /var/tmp |
| 03:54.29 | gnarface | yea |
| 03:59.06 | gnarface | it might actually be /var/ filling up |
| 03:59.08 | gnarface | not your ram |
| 03:59.20 | Se7en | What do |
| 03:59.39 | gnarface | i think that option should still fix it |
| 03:59.46 | gnarface | but all i can do is google for you |
| 04:00.03 | gnarface | alternately you could resize /var/ to give it more space in theory |
| 04:00.08 | gnarface | but i don't recommend that just yet |
| 04:00.49 | gnarface | google does show ubuntu users having what seems to be the same issue |
| 04:01.31 | gnarface | what happens if you run "apt-get clean" first then try it again? |
| 04:02.23 | Se7en | It deletes a whole bunch of cached things |
| 04:02.30 | Se7en | I already ran bleachbit |
| 04:05.08 | gnarface | apt-get upgrade still runs out of space though? |
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| 04:05.22 | gnarface | is there a pending update to apt? |
| 04:05.32 | gnarface | what if you just upgrade that first? |
| 04:07.02 | gnarface | it's not /var/lib/apt/lists/partial filling up is it? |
| 04:07.25 | gnarface | https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/09/msg00014.html like here? |
| 04:09.32 | NewGnuGuy | can you apt-get autoremove ? |
| 04:12.55 | Se7en | I'll have to wait until it happens again |
| 04:13.02 | Se7en | As the whole thing has been rectified |
| 04:13.10 | Se7en | Since I ran bleachbit |
| 04:13.58 | NewGnuGuy | Se7en: Is your /boot directory on its own partition? |
| 04:14.05 | Se7en | It should be |
| 04:14.08 | Se7en | Yea |
| 04:14.11 | Se7en | i think it is |
| 04:17.59 | NewGnuGuy | I was having insufficient disk space problems recently and it turned out that each time I upgraded my kernel, apt would put another kernel version in my /boot partition without touching any of the existing kernel versions causing /boot to run out of space. Don't know I this is at all like what you are experiencing but here it is. |
| 04:18.40 | Se7en | Might be happening |
| 04:18.55 | Se7en | But I can autoremove the old kernel and it disapears from grub |
| 04:19.07 | NewGnuGuy | apt-get autoremove is what I think fixed it for me |
| 04:19.37 | gnarface | my /var is 11GB |
| 04:19.40 | gnarface | :-/ |
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| 06:45.55 | tomg2 | I have 62 GiB in /var, mostly Debian packages. I'm using Debian, but I am really anti-systemd. So I use sysvinit and I guess I'm starting to hang around here. |
| 06:53.36 | golinux | tomg2: Welcome! |
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| 07:06.44 | tomg2 | golinux: thank you. and I was in OFTC #debian and I talked about being pro-sysvinit a little there. and I was in #linuxmint-chat on their official network and though everyone was very nice they main suggestion was that I come here |
| 07:07.15 | tomg2 | I think they don't really know or worry much about init systems in the #linuxmint-chat channel, but I'm staying on the OFTC network for now too |
| 07:10.45 | golinux | Nice to know that they're funneling like-minded folks our way. |
| 07:10.56 | parazyd | indeed :) |
| 07:11.29 | golinux | parazyd: Your're still up? |
| 07:11.38 | parazyd | just woke up :) |
| 07:11.47 | parazyd | 8am here |
| 07:11.48 | golinux | Ah! I'm up late |
| 07:11.52 | parazyd | hahaha |
| 07:12.08 | golinux | Yeah just did the time conversion in my head. |
| 07:12.34 | parazyd | i added a little screencast here |
| 07:12.36 | parazyd | https://heads.dyne.org/about.html |
| 07:13.33 | tomg2 | yeah this one guy knew of these channels. I'd been here before but I didn't think of coming here to talk about that stuff again for some reason |
| 07:13.41 | tomg2 | I think his name was Veed |
| 07:14.41 | parazyd | tomg2: have you upgraded to devuan already? |
| 07:15.08 | tomg2 | no, I was planning on using Debian but with sysvinit for the foreseeable future. |
| 07:15.28 | parazyd | you should switch |
| 07:15.41 | parazyd | nothing breaks, and you get better sysv support for sure :D |
| 07:16.41 | tomg2 | I'll have to say that I can't right now, I can only stick with Debian for now |
| 07:17.13 | tomg2 | though I understand if I'm in #devuan it makes sense to be interested in running Devuan |
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| 07:33.06 | MDrights | is running Devuan everyday :P |
| 07:34.27 | parazyd | our servers too |
| 07:34.30 | parazyd | haha |
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| 08:12.03 | tomg2 | I would hope your servers run Devuan. I think the loss of sysvinit might mean even the loss of the entire free world |
| 08:12.26 | tomg2 | or at least the take over of systemd. sometimes I think it would be more accurately called take-over-your-system.d |
| 08:12.45 | parazyd | lol |
| 08:13.00 | tomg2 | or take-over-your-system-demon, because it really is just that evil |
| 08:13.08 | parazyd | https://pub.parazyd.cf/dev/random/systemd.jpg |
| 08:13.34 | tomg2 | the scream eh? :) |
| 08:13.59 | tomg2 | yeah, it may actually be supernaturally evil |
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| 08:24.22 | AndySchm1tt | tomg2: Some Ubuntu 14.04 upgrades clobbered my system and I used that as an excuse to switch to Refracta last week. So far mostly good. I'd love to try Devuan on one of my servers soon |
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| 08:32.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/28/aws_is_awol_as_s3_goes_haywire/ |
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| 09:10.11 | Centurion_Dan | DocScrutinizer05: just one little ol db failure caused all that outage... |
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| 11:01.17 | FlibberTGibbet | is there a package in beta2 for r8169 drivers? i think in debian it would be in firmware-realtek or firmware-nonfree |
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| 11:49.41 | tomg2 | rtl8169? |
| 12:05.29 | FlibberTGibbet | tomg: yes, believe so |
| 12:07.46 | Gup | i think the package is in the repos but missing form the installer |
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| 12:14.27 | fsmithred | FlibberTGibbet, the packages are in the iso, but the wireless is not automatically detected. You can manually install firmware-realtek (or others) https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=71#p71 |
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| 12:30.19 | FlibberTGibbet | thanks fsmithred. i tried firmware-realtek but it's not found in apt-get search |
| 12:30.19 | infobot | FlibberTGibbet: de nada |
| 12:30.55 | KatolaZ | FlibberTGibbet: do you have the non-free repo enabled? |
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| 12:31.54 | FlibberTGibbet | under jessie-security and jessie-updates, nothing listed in jessie main |
| 12:33.04 | KatolaZ | FlibberTGibbet: it's in non-free |
| 12:33.11 | KatolaZ | https://packages.debian.org/jessie/kernel/firmware-realtek |
| 12:34.27 | FlibberTGibbet | yup, saw that page |
| 12:37.05 | FlibberTGibbet | is the correct line in sources.list deb http://packages.devuan.org/merged jessie main contrib non-free (and deb-src...) ? |
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| 12:43.07 | FlibberTGibbet | sorted. thanks all |
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| 23:24.17 | Xenguy | Hi, can anyone confirm whether amd64 is to 64-bit as i386 is to 32-bit (on Intel architecture) ? |
| 23:26.14 | Xenguy | Also, if yes, is "amd64: the standard/default terminology generally? |
| 23:26.23 | Xenguy | *"amd64" |
| 23:26.25 | DeFender | Xenguy, how do you mean? |
| 23:27.00 | Xenguy | DeFender: Well, on the Devuan d/l page for installation ISOs, they appear to use the above terminology |
| 23:27.35 | Xenguy | And I was surprised to see 64-bit labelled 'amd' |
| 23:27.46 | DeFender | debian has always named its x86 architecture compatible installs "i386" for 32 bit and "amd64" for 64 bit |
| 23:28.12 | Xenguy | I am not familiar much with the 64-bit installations, so just trying to find out about this, as I've found someone who wants to try installing Devuan |
| 23:28.26 | Xenguy | DeFender: OK, perfect, thanks for answering |
| 23:28.34 | DeFender | were it me, I'd have named them "x86-32" and "x86-64", but they didn't do that |
| 23:28.42 | Xenguy | Exactly ;) |
| 23:28.43 | DeFender | I'm pretty sure the names are the way they are for legacy reasons. |
| 23:28.53 | Xenguy | It's a bit confusing at first glance |
| 23:28.58 | DeFender | indeed. |
| 23:29.32 | DeFender | Xenguy, https://wiki.debian.org/DebianAMD64Faq |
| 23:29.42 | Xenguy | Having settled that then, I am really stoked to find this person asking me if I can help install Devuan on their PC... |
| 23:29.45 | Xenguy | tx |
| 23:30.10 | DeFender | sure. |
| 23:30.36 | DeFender | and yeah, this basically said what I just speculated, that it's because amd called it that and they came out with the first 64-bit x86. |
| 23:30.39 | Xenguy | I have had a 'pizza + beer' standing offer for years, for anyone who wants help installing Linux, and only *once* in all that time did anyone ever take me up on the offer :-) |
| 23:30.54 | DeFender | interesting that they actually used the more sane name for it in pre-release. |
| 23:30.54 | Xenguy | That makes sense |
| 23:31.38 | DeFender | (I just found this faq from a quick google search. didn't know all of this before.) |
| 23:31.58 | Xenguy | So one more Devuan installation coming up (world domination 1 PC at a time ;-) |
| 23:32.23 | DeFender | so you're that guy who stands out on the corner with the sign that says "will install linux for food" |
| 23:32.32 | Xenguy | Oh, I meant to ask, I've seen some folks mentioning issue with wifi during the beta2 install... |
| 23:32.35 | Xenguy | haha |
| 23:32.46 | Xenguy | *mentioning issues |
| 23:33.02 | Xenguy | Is this still something I need to be prepared to work around, or ...? |
| 23:33.32 | DeFender | wouldn't be able to help you with that one, i'm on a desktop. |
| 23:33.42 | Xenguy | DeFender: Not just food - there absolutely must be ale included, or the deal is off! ;) |
| 23:33.47 | DeFender | hehehe. |
| 23:34.03 | Xenguy | drives a hard bargain... |
| 23:34.06 | gnarface | as far as i know, the current installer has non-free firmware installed, so the wifi that is known to work will work in the devuan installer. this is NOT the case for debian though, as they refuse to put any non-free firmware or software in their installers |
| 23:34.24 | gnarface | installing from wifi is always gonna be a crapshoot though, especially if its not unencrypted wifi |
| 23:34.42 | gnarface | in either case i'd definitely recommend installing via physical ethernet cable if at all possible |
| 23:35.18 | gnarface | it's much easier to work out hardware&driver-specific wifi issues with a separate, WORKING network connection |
| 23:35.46 | Xenguy | gnarface: I checked with this guy today, and he has cables also, so we should be good. I just wanted to know in advance if there might be any issues like wifi, more because of the 'optics' involved |
| 23:35.54 | Xenguy | brb |
| 23:36.35 | gnarface | Xenguy: yea, there might be issues with the wifi. just not issues you wouldn't have with any other distro using the same kernel version |
| 23:38.25 | gnarface | some wifi chips will work without non-free firmware, some more will work with it, but the vast majority of wifi and bluetooth devices are still completely unsupported in linux |
| 23:38.46 | DeFender | gnarface, even post-install? |
| 23:38.49 | *** join/#devuan fleeky (~fleeky@75-101-60-65.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com) |
| 23:39.17 | gnarface | DeFender: well if we're talking about all wifi devices on the market total, yea... driver support is just not there yet. do research before you buy. |
| 23:39.26 | malinas | I understand that the current debian-installer runs on pretty much anything with a monitor, but damn it feels so rudimentary for things like wifi and disk partitioning |
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| 23:40.31 | gnarface | things in Linux as a whole that are still currently quite primitive, and your Windows-users buddies will certainly make fun of you for: 1) most wifi/bluetooth devices 2) USB audio devices 3) any OpenGL hardware acceleration not using Nvidia drivers |
| 23:40.41 | DeFender | it's not easy research to do, but yeah. |
| 23:41.02 | gnarface | malinas: i can confirm disk partitioning will work everywhere :) |
| 23:41.20 | DeFender | gnarface, #3 is why I only use nvidia. |
| 23:41.20 | Xenguy | back |
| 23:42.28 | malinas | something that really annoys me is how many times you have to confirm things when you just want an automatic paritioning with LVM, for instance |
| 23:42.59 | malinas | (and on an empty disk, at that) |
| 23:43.10 | Xenguy | DeFender: And yet Nvidia are rather unhelpful to FOSS I understand |
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| 23:43.40 | DeFender | actually, speaking of which, my kde screensaver seems to not be making full use of the video card, as the graphics are not as crisp as they were before i installed devuan (same hardware, but had been using debian, switched for obvious reasons) and the system monitor shows high CPU usage while the screen saver is running (which it also didn't do before). You wouldn't happen to know how to fix this, would you? |
| 23:43.44 | Xenguy | You don't want to partition by mistake though, do you? ;) |
| 23:44.36 | Xenguy | Choose 'blank screen' as your screensaver =) |
| 23:44.53 | DeFender | Xenguy, they have drivers that work well in linux, which is at least slightly more helpful to FOSS than the stuff that doesn't. |
| 23:45.10 | gnarface | Xenguy: yes that nvidia's drivers and kernel support and IRC channel are all served up with maximum contempt is quite evident. unfortunately they still have better support than everyone else's reverse-engineered offerings. they seem to strategically put in *just enough* effort to maintain that edge too, but until either Intel starts making better video cards, or AMD starts ... figuring out how to write a driver to save |
| 23:45.10 | gnarface | their lives, that's where we're stuck. |
| 23:45.22 | Xenguy | DeFender: I've just read stuff about them blocking opening up drivers etc. |
| 23:45.27 | DeFender | Xenguy, that's... not a fix. I WANT the shinies. I just want them to make full use of the hardware they should be using. |
| 23:45.54 | malinas | sounds like your hardware acceleration isn't there at all |
| 23:46.21 | DeFender | malinas, it's there in some way though, because MPV uses it just fine. |
| 23:46.39 | Xenguy | Good luck. For some reason I always preferred the default blank screen - almost like whoever chose that as a default (Linux?) was thinking of the 'stealth' Linux installation or something |
| 23:46.43 | DeFender | (Albeit with some minor bugs of its own, but one thing at a time...) |
| 23:47.09 | gnarface | well mesa has made huge progress lately, with some help from Intel and AMD. i have hope for the future. somehow it seems like AMD is reverse-engineering their own hardware though. i dunno why they seem so helpless when it comes to drivers. |
| 23:47.41 | Xenguy | *Linus |
| 23:47.49 | malinas | my radeon HD 7970 a few years back? never had a proper 2D acceleration... thank you amd... |
| 23:48.16 | DeFender | Xenguy, oh, certainly blank screen makes sense as a default. I just like the shinies. |
| 23:48.33 | Xenguy | And why not, computers are supposed to be fun too |
| 23:48.39 | Xenguy | funtoo |
| 23:48.42 | Xenguy | :P |
| 23:48.50 | gnarface | still using the starfield one that looks just like windows95 until it starts swooping and spinning |
| 23:48.58 | Xenguy | A classic |
| 23:49.05 | Xenguy | Never gets old |
| 23:49.42 | malinas | DeFender: did you check the usual stuff like glxinfo to begin with? |
| 23:50.17 | malinas | because mpv being good at displaying videos does not necessarily mean that you have hardware acceleration set up |
| 23:50.37 | Xenguy | takes a break... |
| 23:51.39 | DeFender | malinas, i didn't say mpv is good at displaying videos, i said it's using the hardware. I set the vo to use vdpau and it works fine without complaining that it's not available. |
| 23:52.39 | DeFender | huh, i don't seem to have glxinfo |
| 23:52.43 | DeFender | what package is it in? |
| 23:53.06 | malinas | it's in mesa-utils |
| 23:53.34 | malinas | and vpdau is an API, not necessarily tied to your nvidia drivers any more |
| 23:53.43 | DeFender | interesting. |
| 23:55.03 | DeFender | malinas, okay, installed. What am I supposed to be looking for? (don't know much about video stuff) |
| 23:55.21 | malinas | look at the first lines |
| 23:55.59 | DeFender | name of display: :0 / display: :0 screen: 0 / direct rendering: Yes |
| 23:56.18 | malinas | what about the glx vendor string? |
| 23:56.26 | DeFender | server glx vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation |
| 23:56.45 | DeFender | client glx vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation |
| 23:56.59 | malinas | ok good, so it's a problem with KDE, or its screensaver |
| 23:57.13 | malinas | for which I can provide no help |
| 23:58.10 | DeFender | the one i'm using is in the category "openGL screensavers"... you'd think that'd mean it'd use the video card... |
| 23:58.26 | DeFender | alright, i'll have to look for KDE-specific help. THanks anyway. |
| 23:59.57 | gnarface | vdpau is video decoding |
