| 00:00.05 | gnarface | i don't think that will affect opengl screensavers |
| 00:00.34 | DeFender | no, of course not. I was just saying that it seemed to be an indication that my hardware accelleration WAS available. |
| 00:00.39 | gnarface | i have had issues with the official nvidia drivers and some opengl screensavers though |
| 00:00.52 | gnarface | (usually memory leaks & lockups though, not failure to accelerate) |
| 00:01.16 | gnarface | if that screensaver is part of KDE not the xscreensaver project, yea probably best to complain to KDE |
| 00:01.38 | DeFender | i'm not sure which it's part of |
| 00:01.49 | gnarface | glxgears is an easy way to verify acceleration |
| 00:02.06 | gnarface | to make sure it's actually working, in addition to glxinfo's claim that it's loaded and SHOULD work |
| 00:02.08 | DeFender | yeah, i just ran it. |
| 00:02.17 | DeFender | it's pretty. |
| 00:02.24 | gnarface | if you disable vsync there should be a clear framerate difference for hardware acceleration |
| 00:02.28 | DeFender | i should just figure out how to set THAT up as my screensaver :P |
| 00:02.59 | DeFender | how do i disable vsync? |
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| 00:03.33 | gnarface | with the nvidia drivers, for one-liners, you can just prepend __GL_SYNC_TO_VBLANK=0 |
| 00:03.45 | gnarface | you can also set it system-wide in several other places though |
| 00:03.50 | gnarface | and some compositors effectively force it on too |
| 00:03.53 | gnarface | ymmv |
| 00:04.39 | gnarface | glxgears on any recent nvidia card should be giving you well over 20,000fps un-vsynced |
| 00:05.00 | DeFender | and vsynced? |
| 00:05.43 | gnarface | vsynced, should be locked dead-on to the display refresh. usually 50-60hz for commodity LCD panels. on modern CPUs though, less than 5,000fps might just be software opengl rendering and a fast cpu |
| 00:06.14 | DeFender | ah |
| 00:06.24 | gnarface | it used to be that software opengl rendering was so slow it would be even slower than vsync |
| 00:06.34 | gnarface | now the range you're looking for is < 10k or so |
| 00:06.36 | DeFender | yeah, i'm currently getting 60 FPS and it says that it's "Running synchronized to the vertical refresh." |
| 00:06.57 | DeFender | don't I want vsync on though? |
| 00:07.06 | gnarface | yea if you just try it like this, it should go away unless it's on somewhere else too: __GL_SYNC_TO_VBLANK=0 glxgears |
| 00:07.23 | gnarface | you usually *do* want vsync but not always, if you're a gamer |
| 00:08.01 | gnarface | there are edge cases where enabling vsync might be the difference bewteen getting ~50fps and only getting 30fps, depending on the game engine and vsync method |
| 00:08.17 | DeFender | wait, is there a way to run just glxgears without vsync? or do i need to fiddle with some config and restart the entire system? I'm not quite sure what vsync is or how it works. |
| 00:08.38 | gnarface | sorry i didn't make this clearer |
| 00:08.43 | gnarface | __GL_SYNC_TO_VBLANK=0 glxgears |
| 00:08.47 | gnarface | run this^ |
| 00:09.05 | DeFender | doesn't the command name have to come first? |
| 00:09.11 | gnarface | no |
| 00:09.17 | gnarface | not with environment variables |
| 00:09.19 | DeFender | __GL_SYNC_TO_VBLANK=0: Command not found. |
| 00:09.28 | DeFender | note, I'm in TCSH, not bash. |
| 00:09.33 | gnarface | oh |
| 00:09.36 | gnarface | hell if i know then |
| 00:09.37 | DeFender | i can switch to bash to do this though |
| 00:09.39 | gnarface | try it after |
| 00:09.43 | gnarface | it might not matter |
| 00:09.52 | gnarface | i put environment variables before as a habit |
| 00:09.57 | gnarface | just to keep them organized in my head |
| 00:10.08 | DeFender | yeah, i'm getting around 20000 frames. |
| 00:10.21 | gnarface | what nvidia card specifically? |
| 00:10.38 | DeFender | gtx650 |
| 00:10.52 | gnarface | sounds like a reasonable range, but i'm assuming your CPU is in powersaving mode |
| 00:10.57 | gnarface | i get 30,000 out of that card |
| 00:11.04 | gnarface | but 20,000 is clearly way more than software |
| 00:11.51 | DeFender | ah, it does look that way. let's switch it to maximum and see what happens now |
| 00:12.33 | gnarface | eh, it can vary depending on nvidia driver version. i guess i'm only actually getting 25,000 out of it today at full cpu speed. (18,000 in power saving) |
| 00:12.42 | gnarface | anyway, looks like you're good |
| 00:12.42 | DeFender | same range, though i'm not sure i did that right. |
| 00:12.58 | DeFender | yeah, so then it's a problem either with kde or the specific sreen saver |
| 00:13.22 | gnarface | the kde compositor (plasma is it called?) could be problematic |
| 00:13.37 | gnarface | compositors in general can be problematic, because they constitute a full-screen opengl context |
| 00:14.03 | DeFender | pretty sure I have compositing in plasma off. |
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| 00:14.45 | gnarface | i typically disable my compositor when gaming, though with some games it's only a trivial performance hit and others it's crippling |
| 00:15.35 | gnarface | also, if you have nvidia-settings installed, there's a vsync setting in there that may or may not be on by default |
| 00:15.56 | gnarface | as well as a setting that tells it whether to obey the in-game vsync setting or override it |
| 00:16.02 | DeFender | this is odd... running glxgears also shoots my cpu usage up |
| 00:16.13 | gnarface | it should take SOME, even hardware accelerated |
| 00:16.22 | DeFender | hmm |
| 00:16.35 | gnarface | the gpu can't take full load of opengl rendering, just reduce it heavily |
| 00:16.46 | DeFender | gotcha. |
| 00:17.00 | DeFender | also, i realized that was true without vsynch. not so with it. |
| 00:17.09 | gnarface | also note that they say not to use glxgears for actual benchmarking :) |
| 00:17.38 | AlexLikeRock | gksu need "systemd" |
| 00:17.45 | AlexLikeRock | alternative to gksu ? |
| 00:17.59 | gnarface | regular su |
| 00:18.00 | gnarface | ? |
| 00:18.06 | AlexLikeRock | no |
| 00:18.08 | AlexLikeRock | GUI |
| 00:18.12 | gnarface | no idea |
| 00:18.31 | AlexLikeRock | to apoen CAJA, dolphin , pcmanfm like ROOT |
| 00:18.54 | DeFender | AlexLikeRock, kdesudo? |
| 00:19.42 | AlexLikeRock | yes. tanks . instaling ..... |
| 00:24.07 | *** join/#devuan Oldmoss (~yaaic@anon-46-31.vpn.ipredator.se) |
| 00:25.23 | AlexLikeRock | Fail to exec procces son ... "ldesudo" (non exist file or Directorie) |
| 00:26.33 | Xenguy | Maybe a virtual terminal with screen/tmux would work? |
| 00:27.03 | Xenguy | Depends on your use case |
| 00:27.24 | gnarface | did you typo "kdesudo" as "ldesudo" AlexLikeRock? |
| 00:27.46 | AlexLikeRock | "kdesudo caja" |
| 00:27.52 | AlexLikeRock | pastebin .... |
| 00:28.28 | Xenguy | Switch to 'ranger', problem solved =) |
| 00:28.28 | sirix | AlexLikeRock: in caja, jus right click on any folder, and then click "open as administrator" it is pretty simple :-) |
| 00:29.59 | Xenguy | If that works, niiiiiiiiice |
| 00:34.51 | AlexLikeRock | http://paste.debian.net/917547/ |
| 00:35.15 | AlexLikeRock | sirix, that sound like Window$ :-D |
| 00:36.11 | gnarface | AlexLikeRock: looks like a problem with your sudoers config |
| 00:36.35 | gnarface | AlexLikeRock: i don't know for sure, but it looks like something that would be broken with or without GUI |
| 00:38.22 | AlexLikeRock | i remove /etc/sudoers.d/rewifid ( my script ) |
| 00:38.31 | AlexLikeRock | now open Dailog |
| 00:39.03 | Xenguy | .oO( The curse of the GUI ) |
| 00:39.49 | AlexLikeRock | no like password |
| 00:39.56 | AlexLikeRock | and they are CORRECT |
| 00:40.20 | gnarface | well you probably have to fix rewifid |
| 00:40.26 | gnarface | whatever that is |
| 00:41.20 | AlexLikeRock | i delete " rewifid " |
| 00:42.04 | gnarface | yea, i followed that part. i just don't know what it was for |
| 00:42.10 | gnarface | didn't you need it? |
| 00:42.35 | AlexLikeRock | another alternative ? |
| 00:43.13 | gnarface | do you know that su and sudo are not the same? |
| 00:43.19 | AlexLikeRock | i like su |
| 00:43.24 | AlexLikeRock | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:43.31 | gnarface | for su you type the root password, for sudo its YOUR OWN password |
| 00:43.38 | AlexLikeRock | i now that |
| 00:43.46 | gnarface | but for sudo you need to fix /etc/sudoers* |
| 00:43.55 | AlexLikeRock | mmmm |
| 00:43.58 | AlexLikeRock | stop |
| 00:44.06 | AlexLikeRock | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:44.12 | AlexLikeRock | i got it go |
| 00:44.27 | AlexLikeRock | tanks gnarface |
| 00:44.41 | AlexLikeRock | i will back later |
| 00:44.44 | gnarface | yea no problem |
| 00:44.55 | gnarface | ... i just wish i could tell if i hurt or helped |
| 00:45.21 | Xenguy | heh |
| 00:45.36 | sirix | AlexLikeRock: not windows: devuan with Mate desktop environment, if you can't do it, you'd miss some package..maybe matedesktop-environment-extra? |
| 00:45.43 | gnarface | he's gone already sirix |
| 00:45.45 | Xenguy | he's gone? |
| 00:58.16 | tomg2 | yes, AlexLikeRock is gone * AlexLikeRock has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat) |
| 01:04.29 | gnarface | my client shows that to me in bright yellow letters |
| 01:04.40 | gnarface | was not hard to miss |
| 01:45.12 | Xenguy | Sorry I shouldn't have phrased it as a question |
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| 03:57.11 | Guest2437 | Howdy. I recently installed Devuan via the Star live iso. Both in my installed system and in the iso, I'm having trouble viewing man pages. |
| 03:58.00 | Guest2437 | It's hit or miss. Some man pages that don't work, as examples: ls, perl, grep, cat |
| 03:58.35 | Guest2437 | For all of them, when I type "man foo" I get this: Manual page cat(1) line ?/? (END) (press h for help or q to quit) |
| 03:58.38 | Guest2437 | Any ideas? |
| 03:58.46 | gnarface | Guest2437: did you take the option to install man suid root? |
| 03:59.13 | Guest2437 | Hmm, I don't remember seeing that option. |
| 03:59.19 | gnarface | Guest2437: i thought i remember something about caches that could only be refreshed if you actually did it once as root first |
| 03:59.31 | gnarface | it's possible something's gone wrong with your install for sure though... |
| 03:59.40 | gnarface | oh wait well |
| 03:59.44 | Guest2437 | Same issue on the iso |
| 03:59.46 | gnarface | i'm not sure about the star live iso |
| 03:59.52 | gnarface | never tried the star live iso |
| 04:00.21 | Guest2437 | I grabbed the xfce iso. Both the iso and my installation from it have the problem. |
| 04:00.32 | Guest2437 | I'm guessing none of you here have bumped into this? |
| 04:00.45 | gnarface | i think everyone else is asleep, not safe to bet what they'd say |
| 04:00.51 | gnarface | i haven't run into it |
| 04:00.57 | gnarface | but i also only install in expert mode |
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| 04:01.04 | gnarface | and i don't use that option, so i might not have run into this |
| 04:01.10 | gnarface | i turn that feature off |
| 04:01.18 | gnarface | but, two things you can try |
| 04:01.23 | Guest2437 | please do tell |
| 04:01.27 | Guest2437 | :) |
| 04:01.46 | gnarface | you can try to install less (don't ask me why) and you can try the built-in manpage reader in emacs, if emacs is on there |
| 04:02.08 | gnarface | and try it as root |
| 04:02.26 | gnarface | try it as root first, just to be sure, then try the emacs thing |
| 04:02.32 | Guest2437 | I tried it as root (both at a root prompt as well as sudo), no difference. |
| 04:02.37 | gnarface | ok |
| 04:02.43 | Guest2437 | this is very suggestive, though... |
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| 04:03.19 | Guest2437 | when I go into /usr/share/man/man1 and look at the .gz files, |
| 04:03.39 | Guest2437 | I get an error when I try decompressing the files for the man pages that aren't working |
| 04:03.55 | gnarface | no don't open the file directly. the command is alt-x man [enter] [manpage name] [enter] |
| 04:05.32 | Guest2437 | Yes, I realize one shouldn't normally mess with the .gz files directly. I was just wondering if the ones not working in the terminal were corrupt or the like, and I did find a correlation |
| 04:07.30 | Guest2437 | oh, well. thanks for the help anyway. |
| 04:09.29 | gnarface | sorry :( |
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| 10:02.16 | FlibberTGibbet | has anyone here set up certbot on devuan, please? banging my head on the wall here :) |
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| 10:32.03 | FlibberTGibbet | for them as is interested, the certbot-auto failure was because the script checks for /etc/debian_version among others, but doesn't know about devuan_version. a quick symlink fixed that for now. |
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| 12:29.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((<Xenguy> And I was surprised to see 64-bit labelled 'amd')) I asked same, a while ago, not sure if in here or for maybe kicad or whatever |
| 12:32.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe on https://files.devuan.org/devuan_jessie_beta/ the footnote that's there anyway could use a comment like "amd64: generic x86 64bit; i386: generic x86 32bit" |
| 12:33.47 | parazyd | DocScrutinizer05: that's the standard debian naming scheme |
| 12:33.51 | parazyd | amd64 and i386 |
| 12:34.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, we had that covered already. However not everybody is fluent in "debian" |
| 12:35.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | and >>that's the standard debian naming scheme<< seems no valid excuse for not providing some hints |
| 12:37.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | I for one know there's 32 bit and 64 bit, and there's intel and AMD. I'm feeling terribly puzzled by having only amd64 for my intel i5 or whatever, which I know is 64bit but _not_ AMD |
| 12:40.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly since AMD claims to be "Intel x86 compatible" and delivered on that to a varying degree in the past. So the 'class-name' in my world would still be intel64 rather than amd64 - IOW amd suggests it's NOT intel compatible |
| 12:43.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64 |
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| 12:48.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, seems AMD's K8 introduced the x86 IS we know today, but still this fact isn't really known to many people. I grown up with AMD fighting Intel and always being slightly behind, so I learned about amd-* linux images in times where that meant "reduced featureset compared to the intel version, or even incompatible extensions that don't work on intel at all" |
| 12:50.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | for a very simple argument, see how wikipedia redirects amd64 and intel64 to the more generic and clear x86-64 |
| 12:51.30 | Artemis3 | DocScrutinizer05, yes and dont even think about ia64 xD blame Intel for being late to the game, they tried their own thing but failed while amd simply extended (again) x86 and because Windows (tm) they succeeded and Intel simply followed. Its old news from the days of the Athlon. |
| 12:52.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, most likely it is. However not to me, it's actually new to me since I never really bothered |
| 12:53.07 | Artemis3 | so it was more or less like this: the first x86_64 bit cpu, was amd and thats how it got named, then Intel used the same compatible instruction set. |
| 12:53.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | I see why it's named amd64, however I do not see why we can't provide a terse hint that this actually means x86-64 |
| 12:54.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | or alternatively add a link to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64, though I don't see the educational purpose |
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| 12:55.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's just a matter of fact that obviously i'm not the only user getting puzzled over it |
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| 12:58.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64#History_2 first sentence explains why the term amd64 is misleading for oldtimers |
| 12:58.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | whenever someting is misleading or ambiguous, a short clarification is in order |
| 13:02.59 | Xenguy | DocScrutinizer05: Thanks, and I agree that it is ambiguous and confusing, to some. |
| 13:03.16 | Xenguy | I have to run, TTYL |
| 13:03.58 | malinas | it's a bit of a paradox that old-timers do *not* know that amd64 is actually x86-64, but anyway, on which page do you think it should be hinted at? |
| 13:05.50 | malinas | I think that there should be a rel download page, not a link to the main archive |
| 13:05.57 | malinas | *real |
| 13:09.23 | jaromil | I believe in the good old times noone ever thought of calling a cpu architecture with the name of a manufacturer company |
| 13:09.52 | jaromil | sometimes I wonder where it went so terribly wrong that we need to use -amd64 in iso images |
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| 13:10.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | back when the names were *-286, *-386 etc ;-) |
| 13:11.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | based on the chip name xxx86 |
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| 13:12.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | so x86 actually sounds like the most generic term |
| 13:14.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | compare for ARM, nobody calls it OMAP or whatever, since it's about the ISA and which name that ISA is known by |
| 13:16.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | also note https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64#Differences_between_AMD64_and_Intel_64 |
| 13:20.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | so since we're talking a complete OS here, users actually validly might assume the amd64 image wouldn't support intel64 |
| 13:20.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | and heck, *I* got no idea if it actually does or not |
| 13:29.32 | telst4r | I'm pretty sure my 64-bit Atom 330 is an Intel processor, yet it runs -amd64 instead of x86-64. |
| 13:30.25 | telst4r | nicely confusing, thank you. |
| 13:31.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86 |
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| 13:59.51 | DeFender | I would humbly suggest that since devuan is no longer bound by debian rules, it's free to change things that are only the way they are because they are sacred debian tradition if they make sense to change. I think that one of those things is this naming. |
| 14:03.22 | DeFender | I would suggest that those (such as myself) who are used to the names "i386" and "amd64" would not be confused by a switch to generic names "x86-32" and "x86-64", but that those who don't know that the names are just based on whoever was the first to produce the arch are very confused by the current names. |
| 14:03.58 | DeFender | Or, devuan could even provide both names, with one as a simple alias to the other. |
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| 14:25.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | I pondered the latter but came to the conclusion that (unless it's clearly marked as a symlink of sorts) it might introduce even more confusion |
| 14:26.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | questions like "do I need i386 or x86-32 for my XY device?" |
| 14:27.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe a forward or cname could do ;-) |
| 14:28.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | so even when you click on *-x86-32 you download *-i386 |
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| 15:30.06 | FlibberTGibbet | weird, received an email on my server about a "raid degraded array event" -- time coincided exactly with when I created the array. mdadm -D /dev/md0 shows 'clean' status. has anyone encountered similar? |
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| 15:42.37 | Hestben | FlibberTGibbet: Did you create it with missing disks? |
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| 15:47.49 | FlibberTGibbet | Hestben: no, all in place and working as far as I could see. what makes me suspicious is that the mail is the same time, to the second, that I started creating the array. from completion onwards it showed as clean |
| 15:48.32 | Hestben | FlibberTGibbet: strange |
| 15:49.09 | Hestben | I haven't created that many raid arrays, so I don't remember if I have gotten any mails when creating them. |
| 15:49.13 | FlibberTGibbet | Hestben: yup. not sure what i can do to check beyond mdadm -D. |
| 15:49.35 | FlibberTGibbet | Hestben: indeed. this is my first real one, excluding loopback devices during cert exams |
| 15:50.18 | FlibberTGibbet | lvm seems happy enough running on top of it, not that it has much to say in the matter i suppose :) |
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| 16:29.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | race? |
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| 16:32.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | not checked the content, just seeing the title might be relevant https://www.centos.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24659 |
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| 22:58.04 | pipoyi | hola |
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