IRC log for #devuan on 20170411

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00:20.24*** topic/#devuan is beta2 is out: http://ur1.ca/q572u ** https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/
00:27.06*** part/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@46.166.188.239)
00:36.21catprintspunk1_: Devuan jessie has network manager w/o systemd in repos.
00:37.08catprintsmaybe in updates?
00:37.54KatolaZcatprints: I guess it is in jessie-proposed
00:39.06catprintsIt's in my repos and I don't have proposed.
00:40.09fsmithredapt-cache policy network-manager
00:40.09fsmithrednetwork-manager:
00:40.09fsmithred<PROTECTED>
00:40.09fsmithred<PROTECTED>
00:40.09fsmithred<PROTECTED>
00:40.10fsmithred<PROTECTED>
00:40.12fsmithred<PROTECTED>
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00:40.18fsmithred<PROTECTED>
00:40.20fsmithred<PROTECTED>
00:42.32DocScrutinizer05fsmithred: could you decode this for me?
00:43.05fsmithredsure
00:43.29fsmithredthere's a version of network-manager in main jessie repo, which is the same as in debian - unchanged by devuan hands
00:43.40DocScrutinizer05seems like jessie/main has highest prio (500(?
00:43.50fsmithredand there's a version in jessie-proposed that has been fixed for devuanistas
00:43.51fsmithredso
00:44.01fsmithredadd jessie-proposed and install from there
00:44.09fsmithredhang on
00:44.36fsmithreddeb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/devuan jessie-proposed main
00:44.57fsmithredapt-get update && apt-get -t jessie-proposed install network-manager
00:45.20catprintsGood I use wicd. :)
00:45.45fsmithredI set that pin-priority
00:45.45DocScrutinizer05shouldn't the prio (if that 500 is even a prio) be fixed to install from proposed?
00:46.13DocScrutinizer05aah you've set it?
00:46.14fsmithredno, I made it so that I have to tell it if I want something from proposed
00:46.31fsmithredalready got burned on backports
00:46.33DocScrutinizer05ok, thanks :-)
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04:56.13golinuxYEA!  files.devuan .org is finally back up!!!
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11:00.52DocScrutinizer05http://susepaste.org/81359108 :-/
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13:04.43jaromildoesn't look like its expired
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14:30.08ChankuHey
14:31.48zdzichujaromil: the cert was refreshed an hour after DocScrutinizer05's paste
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15:46.30jaromilack yea and nextime is around :^)
15:54.14golinuxDocScrutinizer05: Just saw your screenie.  Cert was fixed some 8 hours ago.
15:55.16golinuxBut I'm wondering why you don't have the new download button next to donate in the nav bar.  That happened some weeks ago . . .
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16:26.46DocScrutinizer05well, konqueror. I'm seriously astonished about it rendering that stuff at all, usually it breaks on all that leete js stuff
16:28.46DocScrutinizer05I sympathize with konqueror refusing to use javascript to render e.g. a mere button, or a "folder" icon next to a dir listing. Or a progress bar showing WHY it takes even longer to load the webpage
16:29.48golinuxIt is not js.  Just css
16:30.20golinuxMaybe clear your cache and refresh
16:30.24DocScrutinizer05but to make you happy :-)  -> http://susepaste.org/34557604
16:30.47golinuxThere it is!  Thanks
16:30.56DocScrutinizer05I guess it's been that expired cert that forbid loading the button
16:31.09golinuxMore changes coming to the site very soon.
16:31.18DocScrutinizer05check again, it been a foreign site
16:31.49DocScrutinizer05wbstats.nexlab.net
16:32.16DocScrutinizer05nfc what and why links to that in https://devuan.org/
16:33.04DocScrutinizer05but if I had to guess, I'd say the item that links to webstat is prior to the donate button
16:33.22DocScrutinizer05or even IS the donate button
16:35.35golinuxI have no idea what you're taking about.  The donate button goes to here: https://devuan.org/os/donate
16:35.43DocScrutinizer05hmmmm, that's plain CSS? http://susepaste.org/95715695
16:36.48golinuxYes.
16:37.10DocScrutinizer05I'm talking about the http://susepaste.org/81359108 cert requester bitching about "webstats.nexlab.net   the cert has expired"
16:37.59DocScrutinizer05I'm pretzty sure konqueror didn't invent that, it must be linked on https://devuan.org/
16:38.20DocScrutinizer05to do you a favor...
16:38.49DocScrutinizer05<PROTECTED>
16:40.01DocScrutinizer05line 243 in https://devuan.org/ source
16:40.03golinuxOh that.  Not my doing.  Ask hk.
16:40.35golinuxI don't understand js
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16:40.43DocScrutinizer05neither
16:40.47DocScrutinizer05just hate it
16:41.03golinuxMe too.
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16:41.19golinuxI do simple not sns
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16:46.28golinuxthe cert must be linked to nextime in some way.
16:52.12zdzichupiwik? standard spying stuff, equivalent of google analytics
16:54.39golinuxIn the coming months the site is going to be simplified and all that stuff will be going away.
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16:58.35Guest26315hi, is there anybody?
17:00.23KatolaZGuest26315: /names
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17:05.18Guest26315hi
17:06.23Guest26315I can't install a package named winbind
17:06.43Guest26315to play leauge of legends on playonlinux
17:07.15Guest26315It depends on samba-common. can't install samba-common-bin too
17:09.47Guest26315Actually, I can install samba-common, but without samba-common-bin. sorry for confuson
17:10.41KatolaZGuest26315: I think it's a known problem
17:11.05KatolaZpointed out a few days ago
17:11.14KatolaZI am surprised it has not been fixed yet
17:12.09Guest26315and there's this package named "heimdal-hdb-api-8" again for samba installation, which I think isn't at devuan repositories..
17:12.20Guest26315It shows up at debian web site, on testing repos
17:12.30Guest26315yeah, too bad..
17:12.35KatolaZGuest26315: you are not mixing stabe and testing, right?
17:12.42Guest26315no
17:12.51Guest26315I didn't add debian repos, or testing repos
17:14.26KatolaZit seems to be due to a problem in amprolla
17:14.41KatolaZwhen there are different versions of the same package for different architectures
17:14.48KatolaZand this is the case, apparently
17:15.05KatolaZI know that this is being looked upon
17:15.39Guest26315I see. I hope they'll fix that soon then. Thanks very much for replying.
17:15.45KatolaZnp
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17:48.58unixmanOoo! I have a question finally. Why would udev not detect and load the driver for my ac97 sound in my Devuan VM on boot? FTR, running 'modprobe snd-intel8x0' as root after boot fixed me up. But I wonder why that was not automagic.
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18:09.57asbestoI hereby propose to have by default firmware-nonfree enabled in repositories.
18:10.03asbestoAND *FUCK RMS* !!!!!!
18:10.05asbestoHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
18:10.10MinceRuse a condom, though
18:11.00Lydia_Kshudders
18:11.03Lydia_KSeriously
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18:18.07fsmithredI've noticed that the installer asks if you want non-free packages or not. Maybe that's only on the laptop that has wireless that needs non-free firmware. Not sure.
18:18.20asbestoah
18:18.43fsmithredor maybe it's regular vs. expert install
18:18.53asbestowell I'm working on a brand new image for rasp pi 1 by parazyd so it's just made as this
18:18.56fsmithredI've done so many installs I'm confused about what's what.
18:19.06asbestowithout non-free :)
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18:19.24fsmithredyou using the sdk to build it?
18:19.35asbestonope, I just downloaded a test image he made
18:20.03fsmithredok
18:20.25fsmithredI know nothing of raspi, but I've been using the live-sdk to make live-CD images.
18:20.43gnarfaceis that working in jessie, fsmithred or are you doing it on ascii?
18:21.10asbestoI think this is ascii :)
18:21.52fsmithredand there's a place in there where I believe you could change the section from main to main contrib and non-free. But I haven't tried that or asked parazyd about it yet.
18:22.00fsmithredyes, live-sdk works in jessie
18:22.10fsmithredI'm working on a howto now.
18:22.54fsmithredI tried building a live image with ascii instead of jessie, and I had to do a few tricks to get it to work.
18:23.02fsmithredbut it's possible.
18:23.32fsmithredhad to exclude rsyslog in the debootstrap command
18:23.54DusXMTI have to agree with asbesto that the restrictions the FSF places on devices that require firmware are a bit strange - so if a device has the firmware burned in, and the only way to change it would be to desolder the chip and reprogram it, is apparently far better than if you have to upload the firmware into the device and have a way to reverse-engineer it and provide a free alternative, whereas such an
18:24.01DusXMToption is not really practical in the first case, and yet such devices get the "Respects your freedom" badge
18:25.43fsmithredFSF approves hardware?
18:25.49lowee[m]maybe add a firmware section next to non-free? that way you do have a source which will definetely provide the formware and can be in sources.list per default :3
18:26.12DusXMTfsmithred: yup
18:27.18NewGnuGuyfsmithred: https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/endorsement/respects-your-freedom
18:27.39lowee[m]i'd rather the fsf would respect my freedom to install any software i want any buy any hardware i want
18:27.42fsmithreda more obvious way to get the non-free firmware might be a feature in future relases, but I don't see it happening for jessie
18:30.57fsmithredI've had the opposite problem - installed devuan and wanted only main repo, but ended up with contrib and non-free enabled.
18:31.47fsmithred(maybe I should actually read those screens that come up during installation.)
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18:45.59DocScrutinizer05don't get me started on FSF RYF requirements!
18:49.03DocScrutinizer06they honestly suggested to **add a MC to /filter out/ the update-firmware commands**, so block firmware update on peripherals that allow that
18:49.41DocScrutinizer06leave alone such a MC itself would need a firmware which user could alter to re-enable the firmware update
18:51.06DocScrutinizer06and you know the reason for this weird requirement? it's just because they don't think about sane "namespace limits" for what they consider part of your system
18:53.47DocScrutinizer06as long as anything attached to the device has any means to prove that it likely has some firmware inside, they need to consider this *software* which they feel is under their 'ruling'. I argue it's not, when the peripheral is attached to the system by an interface like USB or I2C or RS232 whatever, that doesn't allow the peripheral to override the way the linux CPU works
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18:57.21DocScrutinizer06I don't even think a per-each-boot / kernelmodule-init upload of some binary initialization blob to a peripheral via a documented FOSS protocol is violating the GPL or "my freedom", so FSF and RYF rules should just STFU about it
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18:58.13DocScrutinizer06no matter if that binary closed blob is tuning parameters or supposedly a firmware for an embedded MCU in that peripheral
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19:12.36DocScrutinizer06the bizarre totale comes with peripherals not having *known* methods to update the firmware at the time of RYF certification. This means you could certify e.g. a smartphone with a modem module for which no firmware update procedure is publicly documented (despite every amoeba knows a modem module *must* have firmware). The very moment the modem manufacturer publishes a security bugfix firmware update plus a procedure spec how to flash it,
19:12.37DocScrutinizer06<PROTECTED>
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19:13.56lowee[m]i'd rather not have a fancy firmware controlled usb stick beeing overwrittwn by my os
19:15.22DocScrutinizer06err what? which OS does firmware updates?
19:16.12DocScrutinizer06you generally always need to use a special tool to do such update, and it's user to start that tool, usually only with root permissions
19:16.58DocScrutinizer06there is per-init upload of firmware for devices that have no own persistent storage and only store the tirmware in RAM
19:17.09DocScrutinizer06frequently seen on WLAN modules
19:17.38DocScrutinizer06I'd not call this "update" and it rarely ever applies to USB sticks
19:18.26lowee[m]there are many systems which do stuff automatically which i would consider schould only be started by the user, and i see no benefit of beeing able to reproduce the firmware if you are not going to use it
19:20.15DocScrutinizer06well, actually there been such an instance, with a USB->RS232 adapter with a chip that been pirated and china sold billions of fakes. Eventually the original manufacturer had windows drivers flash an "update" that killed all the fake chips
19:21.08DocScrutinizer06thank you Microsoft, thanks you FTDI(?)
19:23.08DocScrutinizer06http://hackaday.com/2016/02/01/ftdi-drivers-break-fake-chips-again/
19:27.25DocScrutinizer06nice, isn't it?
19:27.47DocScrutinizer06though a tad off topic. So i'll hush now
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19:41.41DocScrutinizer06glares at his UPS which has a USB(external)->serial(internal) converter built in
19:43.48enycDocScrutinizer06: does linux tell you 'ftdi clone' etc in dmesg somewhere?
19:44.50muepit might be a pretty convincing clone if it worked with usual ftdi drivers until ftdi added special handling for those clones
19:45.12DocScrutinizer06not sure
19:45.45muepso also a linux driver developer might be able to just ignore the existence of such clones
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19:50.27dethaDocScrutinizer06: what manufacturer/device ID does it report?
19:51.16DocScrutinizer06oh my UPS? I think (but not sure) it doesn't have a FTDI chip
19:51.29DocScrutinizer06afk, bbl
19:52.50DocScrutinizer06why the heck I'm 06?
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19:53.18DocScrutinizer05better
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21:45.08aitorhi
21:45.58aitori want to learn amprolla :)
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21:54.16DocScrutinizer51!amprolla
21:54.16infobotnextime gave an excellent explanation how amprolla works, at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan/2016-05-07/?msg=65646427&page=4, or https://git.devuan.org/devuan-infrastructure/amprolla
21:54.59DocScrutinizer51!tell aitor about amprolla
21:55.07Centurion_Danaitor: amprolla is undergoing several parallel rewrites currently...
21:55.47DocScrutinizer51I think the basics are here to stay :)
21:56.07DocScrutinizer51no?
21:57.09aitori'll have to experience in a local repo :)
22:02.02Centurion_DanDocScrutinizer51: the end result should be a much more complete repository.
22:02.33DocScrutinizer51how so?
22:02.47DocScrutinizer51isn't it complete now?
22:04.30DocScrutinizer51aiui all packages available in debian are also available on devuan. just some fail due to (systemcancer) dependencies
22:05.08aitorit's complete, and mysterious :)
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22:05.52DocScrutinizer51no mysteries, just read what been said about amprolla
22:06.12DocScrutinizer51a try...
22:06.19DocScrutinizer51!packages
22:06.31DocScrutinizer51sorry
22:07.10DocScrutinizer51!listvalues #devuan
22:07.35DocScrutinizer51!listkeys #devuan
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22:09.27DocScrutinizer51nevermind. anyway there's a webpage listing all packages that actually are forked or patched to fix szstdm deps
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22:13.40aitorbye :)
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