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00:20.24 | *** topic/#devuan is beta2 is out: http://ur1.ca/q572u ** https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
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00:36.21 | catprints | punk1_: Devuan jessie has network manager w/o systemd in repos. |
00:37.08 | catprints | maybe in updates? |
00:37.54 | KatolaZ | catprints: I guess it is in jessie-proposed |
00:39.06 | catprints | It's in my repos and I don't have proposed. |
00:40.09 | fsmithred | apt-cache policy network-manager |
00:40.09 | fsmithred | network-manager: |
00:40.09 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
00:40.09 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
00:40.09 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
00:40.10 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
00:40.12 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
00:40.14 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
00:40.16 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
00:40.18 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
00:40.20 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
00:42.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | fsmithred: could you decode this for me? |
00:43.05 | fsmithred | sure |
00:43.29 | fsmithred | there's a version of network-manager in main jessie repo, which is the same as in debian - unchanged by devuan hands |
00:43.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems like jessie/main has highest prio (500(? |
00:43.50 | fsmithred | and there's a version in jessie-proposed that has been fixed for devuanistas |
00:43.51 | fsmithred | so |
00:44.01 | fsmithred | add jessie-proposed and install from there |
00:44.09 | fsmithred | hang on |
00:44.36 | fsmithred | deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/devuan jessie-proposed main |
00:44.57 | fsmithred | apt-get update && apt-get -t jessie-proposed install network-manager |
00:45.20 | catprints | Good I use wicd. :) |
00:45.45 | fsmithred | I set that pin-priority |
00:45.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | shouldn't the prio (if that 500 is even a prio) be fixed to install from proposed? |
00:46.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | aah you've set it? |
00:46.14 | fsmithred | no, I made it so that I have to tell it if I want something from proposed |
00:46.31 | fsmithred | already got burned on backports |
00:46.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, thanks :-) |
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04:56.13 | golinux | YEA! files.devuan .org is finally back up!!! |
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11:00.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://susepaste.org/81359108 :-/ |
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13:04.43 | jaromil | doesn't look like its expired |
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14:30.08 | Chanku | Hey |
14:31.48 | zdzichu | jaromil: the cert was refreshed an hour after DocScrutinizer05's paste |
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15:46.30 | jaromil | ack yea and nextime is around :^) |
15:54.14 | golinux | DocScrutinizer05: Just saw your screenie. Cert was fixed some 8 hours ago. |
15:55.16 | golinux | But I'm wondering why you don't have the new download button next to donate in the nav bar. That happened some weeks ago . . . |
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16:26.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, konqueror. I'm seriously astonished about it rendering that stuff at all, usually it breaks on all that leete js stuff |
16:28.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | I sympathize with konqueror refusing to use javascript to render e.g. a mere button, or a "folder" icon next to a dir listing. Or a progress bar showing WHY it takes even longer to load the webpage |
16:29.48 | golinux | It is not js. Just css |
16:30.20 | golinux | Maybe clear your cache and refresh |
16:30.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | but to make you happy :-) -> http://susepaste.org/34557604 |
16:30.47 | golinux | There it is! Thanks |
16:30.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess it's been that expired cert that forbid loading the button |
16:31.09 | golinux | More changes coming to the site very soon. |
16:31.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | check again, it been a foreign site |
16:31.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | wbstats.nexlab.net |
16:32.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | nfc what and why links to that in https://devuan.org/ |
16:33.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | but if I had to guess, I'd say the item that links to webstat is prior to the donate button |
16:33.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | or even IS the donate button |
16:35.35 | golinux | I have no idea what you're taking about. The donate button goes to here: https://devuan.org/os/donate |
16:35.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmmmm, that's plain CSS? http://susepaste.org/95715695 |
16:36.48 | golinux | Yes. |
16:37.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm talking about the http://susepaste.org/81359108 cert requester bitching about "webstats.nexlab.net the cert has expired" |
16:37.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm pretzty sure konqueror didn't invent that, it must be linked on https://devuan.org/ |
16:38.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | to do you a favor... |
16:38.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
16:40.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | line 243 in https://devuan.org/ source |
16:40.03 | golinux | Oh that. Not my doing. Ask hk. |
16:40.35 | golinux | I don't understand js |
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16:40.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | neither |
16:40.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | just hate it |
16:41.03 | golinux | Me too. |
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16:41.19 | golinux | I do simple not sns |
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16:46.28 | golinux | the cert must be linked to nextime in some way. |
16:52.12 | zdzichu | piwik? standard spying stuff, equivalent of google analytics |
16:54.39 | golinux | In the coming months the site is going to be simplified and all that stuff will be going away. |
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16:58.35 | Guest26315 | hi, is there anybody? |
17:00.23 | KatolaZ | Guest26315: /names |
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17:05.18 | Guest26315 | hi |
17:06.23 | Guest26315 | I can't install a package named winbind |
17:06.43 | Guest26315 | to play leauge of legends on playonlinux |
17:07.15 | Guest26315 | It depends on samba-common. can't install samba-common-bin too |
17:09.47 | Guest26315 | Actually, I can install samba-common, but without samba-common-bin. sorry for confuson |
17:10.41 | KatolaZ | Guest26315: I think it's a known problem |
17:11.05 | KatolaZ | pointed out a few days ago |
17:11.14 | KatolaZ | I am surprised it has not been fixed yet |
17:12.09 | Guest26315 | and there's this package named "heimdal-hdb-api-8" again for samba installation, which I think isn't at devuan repositories.. |
17:12.20 | Guest26315 | It shows up at debian web site, on testing repos |
17:12.30 | Guest26315 | yeah, too bad.. |
17:12.35 | KatolaZ | Guest26315: you are not mixing stabe and testing, right? |
17:12.42 | Guest26315 | no |
17:12.51 | Guest26315 | I didn't add debian repos, or testing repos |
17:14.26 | KatolaZ | it seems to be due to a problem in amprolla |
17:14.41 | KatolaZ | when there are different versions of the same package for different architectures |
17:14.48 | KatolaZ | and this is the case, apparently |
17:15.05 | KatolaZ | I know that this is being looked upon |
17:15.39 | Guest26315 | I see. I hope they'll fix that soon then. Thanks very much for replying. |
17:15.45 | KatolaZ | np |
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17:48.58 | unixman | Ooo! I have a question finally. Why would udev not detect and load the driver for my ac97 sound in my Devuan VM on boot? FTR, running 'modprobe snd-intel8x0' as root after boot fixed me up. But I wonder why that was not automagic. |
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18:09.57 | asbesto | I hereby propose to have by default firmware-nonfree enabled in repositories. |
18:10.03 | asbesto | AND *FUCK RMS* !!!!!! |
18:10.05 | asbesto | HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! |
18:10.10 | MinceR | use a condom, though |
18:11.00 | Lydia_K | shudders |
18:11.03 | Lydia_K | Seriously |
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18:18.07 | fsmithred | I've noticed that the installer asks if you want non-free packages or not. Maybe that's only on the laptop that has wireless that needs non-free firmware. Not sure. |
18:18.20 | asbesto | ah |
18:18.43 | fsmithred | or maybe it's regular vs. expert install |
18:18.53 | asbesto | well I'm working on a brand new image for rasp pi 1 by parazyd so it's just made as this |
18:18.56 | fsmithred | I've done so many installs I'm confused about what's what. |
18:19.06 | asbesto | without non-free :) |
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18:19.24 | fsmithred | you using the sdk to build it? |
18:19.35 | asbesto | nope, I just downloaded a test image he made |
18:20.03 | fsmithred | ok |
18:20.25 | fsmithred | I know nothing of raspi, but I've been using the live-sdk to make live-CD images. |
18:20.43 | gnarface | is that working in jessie, fsmithred or are you doing it on ascii? |
18:21.10 | asbesto | I think this is ascii :) |
18:21.52 | fsmithred | and there's a place in there where I believe you could change the section from main to main contrib and non-free. But I haven't tried that or asked parazyd about it yet. |
18:22.00 | fsmithred | yes, live-sdk works in jessie |
18:22.10 | fsmithred | I'm working on a howto now. |
18:22.54 | fsmithred | I tried building a live image with ascii instead of jessie, and I had to do a few tricks to get it to work. |
18:23.02 | fsmithred | but it's possible. |
18:23.32 | fsmithred | had to exclude rsyslog in the debootstrap command |
18:23.54 | DusXMT | I have to agree with asbesto that the restrictions the FSF places on devices that require firmware are a bit strange - so if a device has the firmware burned in, and the only way to change it would be to desolder the chip and reprogram it, is apparently far better than if you have to upload the firmware into the device and have a way to reverse-engineer it and provide a free alternative, whereas such an |
18:24.01 | DusXMT | option is not really practical in the first case, and yet such devices get the "Respects your freedom" badge |
18:25.43 | fsmithred | FSF approves hardware? |
18:25.49 | lowee[m] | maybe add a firmware section next to non-free? that way you do have a source which will definetely provide the formware and can be in sources.list per default :3 |
18:26.12 | DusXMT | fsmithred: yup |
18:27.18 | NewGnuGuy | fsmithred: https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/endorsement/respects-your-freedom |
18:27.39 | lowee[m] | i'd rather the fsf would respect my freedom to install any software i want any buy any hardware i want |
18:27.42 | fsmithred | a more obvious way to get the non-free firmware might be a feature in future relases, but I don't see it happening for jessie |
18:30.57 | fsmithred | I've had the opposite problem - installed devuan and wanted only main repo, but ended up with contrib and non-free enabled. |
18:31.47 | fsmithred | (maybe I should actually read those screens that come up during installation.) |
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18:45.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | don't get me started on FSF RYF requirements! |
18:49.03 | DocScrutinizer06 | they honestly suggested to **add a MC to /filter out/ the update-firmware commands**, so block firmware update on peripherals that allow that |
18:49.41 | DocScrutinizer06 | leave alone such a MC itself would need a firmware which user could alter to re-enable the firmware update |
18:51.06 | DocScrutinizer06 | and you know the reason for this weird requirement? it's just because they don't think about sane "namespace limits" for what they consider part of your system |
18:53.47 | DocScrutinizer06 | as long as anything attached to the device has any means to prove that it likely has some firmware inside, they need to consider this *software* which they feel is under their 'ruling'. I argue it's not, when the peripheral is attached to the system by an interface like USB or I2C or RS232 whatever, that doesn't allow the peripheral to override the way the linux CPU works |
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18:57.21 | DocScrutinizer06 | I don't even think a per-each-boot / kernelmodule-init upload of some binary initialization blob to a peripheral via a documented FOSS protocol is violating the GPL or "my freedom", so FSF and RYF rules should just STFU about it |
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18:58.13 | DocScrutinizer06 | no matter if that binary closed blob is tuning parameters or supposedly a firmware for an embedded MCU in that peripheral |
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19:12.36 | DocScrutinizer06 | the bizarre totale comes with peripherals not having *known* methods to update the firmware at the time of RYF certification. This means you could certify e.g. a smartphone with a modem module for which no firmware update procedure is publicly documented (despite every amoeba knows a modem module *must* have firmware). The very moment the modem manufacturer publishes a security bugfix firmware update plus a procedure spec how to flash it, |
19:12.37 | DocScrutinizer06 | <PROTECTED> |
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19:13.56 | lowee[m] | i'd rather not have a fancy firmware controlled usb stick beeing overwrittwn by my os |
19:15.22 | DocScrutinizer06 | err what? which OS does firmware updates? |
19:16.12 | DocScrutinizer06 | you generally always need to use a special tool to do such update, and it's user to start that tool, usually only with root permissions |
19:16.58 | DocScrutinizer06 | there is per-init upload of firmware for devices that have no own persistent storage and only store the tirmware in RAM |
19:17.09 | DocScrutinizer06 | frequently seen on WLAN modules |
19:17.38 | DocScrutinizer06 | I'd not call this "update" and it rarely ever applies to USB sticks |
19:18.26 | lowee[m] | there are many systems which do stuff automatically which i would consider schould only be started by the user, and i see no benefit of beeing able to reproduce the firmware if you are not going to use it |
19:20.15 | DocScrutinizer06 | well, actually there been such an instance, with a USB->RS232 adapter with a chip that been pirated and china sold billions of fakes. Eventually the original manufacturer had windows drivers flash an "update" that killed all the fake chips |
19:21.08 | DocScrutinizer06 | thank you Microsoft, thanks you FTDI(?) |
19:23.08 | DocScrutinizer06 | http://hackaday.com/2016/02/01/ftdi-drivers-break-fake-chips-again/ |
19:27.25 | DocScrutinizer06 | nice, isn't it? |
19:27.47 | DocScrutinizer06 | though a tad off topic. So i'll hush now |
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19:41.41 | DocScrutinizer06 | glares at his UPS which has a USB(external)->serial(internal) converter built in |
19:43.48 | enyc | DocScrutinizer06: does linux tell you 'ftdi clone' etc in dmesg somewhere? |
19:44.50 | muep | it might be a pretty convincing clone if it worked with usual ftdi drivers until ftdi added special handling for those clones |
19:45.12 | DocScrutinizer06 | not sure |
19:45.45 | muep | so also a linux driver developer might be able to just ignore the existence of such clones |
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19:50.27 | detha | DocScrutinizer06: what manufacturer/device ID does it report? |
19:51.16 | DocScrutinizer06 | oh my UPS? I think (but not sure) it doesn't have a FTDI chip |
19:51.29 | DocScrutinizer06 | afk, bbl |
19:52.50 | DocScrutinizer06 | why the heck I'm 06? |
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19:53.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | better |
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21:45.08 | aitor | hi |
21:45.58 | aitor | i want to learn amprolla :) |
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21:54.16 | DocScrutinizer51 | !amprolla |
21:54.16 | infobot | nextime gave an excellent explanation how amprolla works, at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan/2016-05-07/?msg=65646427&page=4, or https://git.devuan.org/devuan-infrastructure/amprolla |
21:54.59 | DocScrutinizer51 | !tell aitor about amprolla |
21:55.07 | Centurion_Dan | aitor: amprolla is undergoing several parallel rewrites currently... |
21:55.47 | DocScrutinizer51 | I think the basics are here to stay :) |
21:56.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | no? |
21:57.09 | aitor | i'll have to experience in a local repo :) |
22:02.02 | Centurion_Dan | DocScrutinizer51: the end result should be a much more complete repository. |
22:02.33 | DocScrutinizer51 | how so? |
22:02.47 | DocScrutinizer51 | isn't it complete now? |
22:04.30 | DocScrutinizer51 | aiui all packages available in debian are also available on devuan. just some fail due to (systemcancer) dependencies |
22:05.08 | aitor | it's complete, and mysterious :) |
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22:05.52 | DocScrutinizer51 | no mysteries, just read what been said about amprolla |
22:06.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | a try... |
22:06.19 | DocScrutinizer51 | !packages |
22:06.31 | DocScrutinizer51 | sorry |
22:07.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | !listvalues #devuan |
22:07.35 | DocScrutinizer51 | !listkeys #devuan |
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22:09.27 | DocScrutinizer51 | nevermind. anyway there's a webpage listing all packages that actually are forked or patched to fix szstdm deps |
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22:13.40 | aitor | bye :) |
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