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| 00:18.43 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 | https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
| 00:19.26 | *** join/#devuan devdevdev (~devdevdev@78.pool85-57-177.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 00:19.50 | devdevdev | Could you upload a set of DVD images with debian 1.0 repositories? |
| 00:20.20 | fsmithred | set? |
| 00:20.34 | fsmithred | there's one DVD image. I assume you meant devuan, not debian. |
| 00:20.44 | devdevdev | devuan, sorry |
| 00:21.01 | fsmithred | files.devuan.org |
| 00:21.04 | devdevdev | by DVD set I meant , the repositories in different dvds: dvd1 dvd2 , like debian |
| 00:21.13 | fsmithred | there is no dvd2 |
| 00:21.36 | devdevdev | yes, I know there isn't , that's why I ask if there is any hope |
| 00:21.40 | devdevdev | of finding it in the future |
| 00:22.17 | fsmithred | maybe in the future. Everyone is working on ascii now. |
| 00:22.27 | fsmithred | but not for jessie |
| 00:22.50 | devdevdev | ascii? |
| 00:23.08 | fsmithred | I think there are some rsync mirrors if you want to get large numbers of packages. |
| 00:23.20 | fsmithred | ascii=testing (based on stretch) |
| 00:23.25 | devdevdev | ahh |
| 00:23.30 | devdevdev | by the way, about stretch |
| 00:23.41 | devdevdev | I tried it and it is painfully slower |
| 00:23.42 | fsmithred | did it arrive yet? |
| 00:23.44 | fsmithred | lol |
| 00:23.46 | devdevdev | no but |
| 00:23.53 | devdevdev | I downloaded the test version so to speak |
| 00:23.58 | devdevdev | but I found it horrible |
| 00:24.02 | devdevdev | I almost punch my computer |
| 00:24.09 | fsmithred | lmao |
| 00:24.15 | devdevdev | it is slower than jessie |
| 00:24.20 | devdevdev | and they have removed the ifconfig command |
| 00:25.07 | fsmithred | past six months or so, we've been getting refugees from debian jessie. Past week or two, we're starting to get refugee distros based on debian switching or contemplating switching. |
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| 00:27.38 | devdevdev | fsmithred: why does debian insist in making each distribution slower than the former? |
| 00:29.03 | fsmithred | I don't think that they are trying to make it slower. |
| 00:29.24 | fsmithred | did you try it with gnome? |
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| 00:29.59 | devdevdev | fsmithred: oh my lord, no, gnome sucks, would never do that. I only bow to lxde |
| 00:30.19 | devdevdev | in fact, I think that devuan live is not perfect because the damn xfce is too heavy of a desktop for my taste |
| 00:31.03 | fsmithred | wow, I never thought of lxde as slow. |
| 00:31.27 | devdevdev | not lxde, xfce is slow |
| 00:31.29 | devdevdev | but I mean |
| 00:31.32 | devdevdev | debian 9 in lxde |
| 00:31.38 | devdevdev | is slower than debian 7 in lxde |
| 00:31.42 | fsmithred | yeah, that's what I meant. |
| 00:32.08 | fsmithred | I've heard people complaining about systemd hogging resources. |
| 00:32.11 | devdevdev | it's not only the desktop manager, it's all the crap it is loading on the background |
| 00:32.18 | devdevdev | probably systemd |
| 00:32.36 | devdevdev | but jessie (which is way slower than wheezy) used systemd as well and it was not so slow as debian 9 |
| 00:32.42 | devdevdev | the higher the version, the slower |
| 00:32.49 | devdevdev | is that really unavoidable? |
| 00:32.56 | fsmithred | that was somewhat true before systemd |
| 00:33.44 | fsmithred | developers add features |
| 00:34.29 | fsmithred | and everyone assumes practically unlimited computing resources |
| 00:35.42 | devdevdev | yes |
| 00:36.04 | devdevdev | they dont seem to realize that if they continue asking for more and more resources |
| 00:36.26 | *** part/#devuan g4570n (~g4570n@host2.190-228-106.telecom.net.ar) |
| 00:36.28 | devdevdev | it will reach a point where the user has to use newer computers and is compelled to use processors with ME and such nastiness |
| 00:36.43 | devdevdev | where it is pointless to use free software |
| 00:36.53 | devdevdev | free software, when not on free hardware is irrelevant |
| 00:38.12 | Xenguy | devdevdev: OMG, ifconfig gone, that's just blasphemy, I'm serious |
| 00:39.25 | devdevdev | Xenguy: well, you can always use ip link and such , but it's un-necessarily complicated |
| 00:40.03 | Xenguy | Why can't they deprecate something, and then leave it alone, if it works (without serious bugs) |
| 00:40.40 | devdevdev | I don't know, it makes no sense |
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| 00:41.15 | Xenguy | Guess I'm forced to learn 'ip' |
| 00:41.26 | devdevdev | it is like 3 commands in one : |
| 00:41.29 | devdevdev | 1) ip link |
| 00:41.45 | devdevdev | 2) ip addr |
| 00:41.49 | devdevdev | 3) ip route |
| 00:42.04 | devdevdev | but i mean it is too complicated compared to ifconfig |
| 00:42.38 | Xenguy | It makes me wonder who makes these decisions |
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| 00:47.52 | Xenguy | Maybe Devuan could retain 'ifconfig', and watch adoption go through the roof! :P |
| 00:48.17 | Xenguy | Unless there's some compelling reason not to |
| 00:48.42 | devdevdev | nah, I will get sure tomorrow |
| 00:48.54 | devdevdev | maybe I invoked it without being superuser withut noticing |
| 00:48.56 | devdevdev | I don't think so |
| 00:49.01 | devdevdev | but it may be |
| 00:50.55 | fsmithred | ifconfig is in ascii |
| 00:51.07 | Xenguy | yay |
| 00:52.05 | furrywolf | why would ifconfig be removed? |
| 00:52.24 | AlexLikeRock | obsolet , say "debian" |
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| 00:52.53 | furrywolf | yeah, but debian is supposed to keep old stuff and not randomly break things. that's a command called by millions of scripts. |
| 00:53.34 | devdevdev | furrywolf: maybe I am mistaken and I invoked it without sudo , tomorrow will make sure |
| 00:53.47 | devdevdev | all in all i don't like debian 9 though |
| 00:54.26 | furrywolf | I don't have any jessie boxes, only ascii. |
| 00:54.42 | Centurion_Dan | Xenguy: 'ip' is actually much more expressive and powerful then ifconfig and provides a clear demarcation between routing addressing and physical/logical interface management. |
| 00:55.37 | Centurion_Dan | but I sill often use ifconfig to get interface stats, just because it gives them to you without needing to ask for them. |
| 00:56.04 | Centurion_Dan | So I see value in both tools and expect both to stay around long term. |
| 00:58.06 | fsmithred | Centurion_Dan, should I be seeing the new slim in the repo by now, or am I being impatient? |
| 01:01.51 | Xenguy | Thanks Centurion_Dan |
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| 01:03.20 | Xenguy | furrywolf: re: "millions of scripts": Backwards compatibility, like this example, was always supposed to be respected |
| 01:06.49 | AlexLikeRock | a good alternative to Xchat ? |
| 01:07.02 | Xenguy | hexchat? |
| 01:07.04 | AlexLikeRock | whit Xorg, please |
| 01:07.09 | AlexLikeRock | non terminal |
| 01:07.12 | Xenguy | yep |
| 01:07.40 | AlexLikeRock | installing |
| 01:07.41 | AlexLikeRock | ... |
| 01:09.17 | furrywolf | xterm -e BitchX |
| 01:09.35 | Sleaker | AlexLikeRock: quassel-rc |
| 01:09.41 | Xenguy | The first client I tried, hah |
| 01:09.42 | Sleaker | sorry, quassel-irc |
| 01:10.17 | Xenguy | I was glad to find irssi |
| 01:10.34 | furrywolf | I dislike irssi. |
| 01:11.08 | Xenguy | Why is that furrywolf ? |
| 01:11.50 | Xenguy | Read a little on quassel, and it seems like a more powerful/complex system |
| 01:12.46 | Sleaker | Xenguy: it is a client-server pair |
| 01:13.07 | Sleaker | so you can run it monolithic or you can run the quassel-server on a singular machine and connect to that from the client |
| 01:13.20 | Sleaker | so it can act like irssi/weechat over screen. |
| 01:13.28 | Sleaker | ssh + screen |
| 01:13.38 | Xenguy | OK, makes sense |
| 01:13.40 | Sleaker | but you get a graphical app instead |
| 01:13.47 | furrywolf | Xenguy: because it tries to look like epic and friends, then does everything similarly enough you'd think things are going to work a certain way, but then does them wrong. |
| 01:13.47 | Xenguy | That's how I use irssi |
| 01:14.04 | Sleaker | irssi/weechat + ssh + screen = artifacts for userlist scripts. |
| 01:14.20 | Sleaker | quassel resolves the hard-set issues that a console-based irc app can't elegantly deal with. |
| 01:14.31 | Sleaker | but still allows a self-served BNC style client. |
| 01:14.38 | Xenguy | furrywolf: I sympathize. My setup is picture perfect, and I just adore it honestly |
| 01:14.40 | Sleaker | which you don't get if you run like hexchat. |
| 01:15.10 | Sleaker | eg: quassel is the best of both worlds :D |
| 01:15.52 | Sleaker | but, as other's might tell you. if you're not doing it in emacs you're doing it wrong. |
| 01:16.12 | Xenguy | Well it sounds innovative for sure. I admit I do tend to gravitate to simple use cases nowadays, like ncurses/console apps for as much as possible :P |
| 01:16.54 | Xenguy | But it sounds like it has powerful features and possibilities |
| 01:16.55 | Sleaker | basically I have a VPS running quassel, and just connect from home/work/wherever to the server which is always on and connected to irc. |
| 01:17.00 | Sleaker | so I get 24/7 logging. |
| 01:17.13 | Xenguy | That's a feature |
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| 01:23.28 | Centurion_Dan | fsmithred: in unstable yes, or ascii-proposed (/devuan) |
| 01:23.30 | Xenguy | It's kind of like screen/tmux, taken to the next networking level |
| 01:23.53 | fsmithred | I'm not seeing it. |
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| 01:27.43 | Centurion_Dan | definitely in packages.devuan.org/devuan ascii-proposed main |
| 01:29.24 | OxFEEDBACC | hmmm... where does "dpkg --unpack" write the unpacked files? |
| 01:30.31 | OxFEEDBACC | or: i think i have read somewhere that debian packages are merely tar files with non-standard extensions... how comes i'm apparently wrong? :-/ |
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| 01:52.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can open them just fine in Ark |
| 01:52.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | also in mc |
| 01:55.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | tar decides how to unpack based on extension, as long as it knows the file extension. so renaming a .tgz to .tar will render it garbled for tar |
| 01:58.00 | OxFEEDBACC | good point... piping an archive would require which compressor was in use creating a tar... |
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| 01:59.58 | fsmithred | you can use ar to unpack debs |
| 02:01.08 | OxFEEDBACC | right... that's what i've read... thanks... |
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| 03:19.39 | zyliwax | hey, my weird screen lockup problem seems to have gone away just by adding myself to group "input" |
| 03:19.49 | zyliwax | w00t |
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| 03:59.48 | OxFEEDBACC | so, the installation medium contains a whole bunch of software in its repository... not all of it is installed, but some packages are... i suppose there is some list of packages to install during the initial system installation... does anyone know off the top of their head where that may be? |
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| 05:11.17 | OxFEEDBACC | hmmm... googling that has shown to be fruitless, looking through all packages on the DVD is pretty pointless... the CD FAQ doesn't mention it... anyone please? |
| 05:13.21 | OxFEEDBACC | i mean, why, for example, is libreoffice installed, but not abiword? I checked the Packages.gz file, but libreoffice* is marked with priority "optional", as is abiword... i don't find other flags there... |
| 05:13.41 | OxFEEDBACC | but it certainly doesn't depend on /dev/random, does it? |
| 05:20.23 | zyliwax | update: my lockup issue is likely due to a conflict with my serial penabled wacom tablet -- when i added myself to user "input", i lost control of it after the screen blanked from timing out, so i added myself to group "dialout" and regained control of the tablet but reintroduced this problem |
| 05:23.39 | zyliwax | OxFEEDBACC: just to be clear -- you are talking about the installation medium's package selection itself, not the packages from a base installation? either way, there are lots of permutations (different installation media, different selections for a to-disk installation) -- but you can use "dpkg-query -l" to generate a list in any environment that's not extremely minimal |
| 05:24.17 | zyliwax | more info >> https://wiki.debian.org/ListInstalledPackages |
| 05:25.07 | gnarface | OxFEEDBACC: the CD and DVD sets contain extra stuff so they can be used sortof as a portable partial repo; a set of disks that can be used to get a full installation even on a computer without a persistent network connection. even the netinstall has a few package like this, but just the bare minimum. in all cases, you choose what to install (if you didn't think you got a choice, you weren't paying attention, you were |
| 05:25.07 | gnarface | using the live installer, or you didn't try "expert mode") |
| 05:26.24 | gnarface | OxFEEDBACC: regardless, once you have a complete install, there's no addition/removal of packages that require a re-install to carry out. so don't panic if you think you made the wrong choice or forgot something |
| 05:26.33 | OxFEEDBACC | i'm not interested in querying the installed packages after they are installed... i want, for example, to manipulate the image so that in further installations libreoffice will not be installed... |
| 05:27.00 | gnarface | OxFEEDBACC: yea just choose "expert" mode next time, and when it gets to tasksel, don't check any of the boxes |
| 05:27.57 | gnarface | OxFEEDBACC: you may remember seeing a page where it asks you what you're gonna do with the box; www server, mail server, email server, desktop environment, etc, and some sub-options like this. just check none of them. (well, i'd advise leaving "standard system tools" or whatever it's called checked, but even that is optional, strictly speaking) |
| 05:28.48 | OxFEEDBACC | i must have missed that point... still... there ought to be a list... as i said, the installer will not make it rely on /dev/random... |
| 05:28.52 | gnarface | OxFEEDBACC: note that the installer application in the live image does NOT have this feature; it merely replicates the live image's package selection to your harddrive as an initial install configuration |
| 05:30.01 | OxFEEDBACC | ya, that's li[vf]e, so to speak... |
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| 08:15.56 | panorain | Hello |
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| 09:58.50 | nextime | o/ |
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| 10:01.24 | KatolaZ | hey nextime o/ |
| 10:01.46 | nextime | ciao KatolaZ |
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| 10:18.20 | AntoFox | \o |
| 10:19.09 | KatolaZ | ciao AntoFox |
| 10:20.20 | AntoFox | ciao katolaz |
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| 10:54.26 | gnu_srs | Hello. Can somebody check the file sizes of Sources.{gz,xz} at: https://packages.devuan.org/devuan/dists/{ascii-proposed,experimental}/main/source/ ? |
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| 10:55.47 | gnu_srs | If the sizes are 20 and 32 bytes respectively, they are empty. Thanks! |
| 10:56.11 | newbie|2 | ciao a tutti |
| 10:56.18 | newbie|2 | !list |
| 10:56.23 | infobot | one warez list being sent |
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| 11:41.44 | Beerbelott | Hello |
| 11:42.07 | Beerbelott | Am I blind or xcalc is nowhere to be found in Devuan's live DVD menus? |
| 11:43.01 | gnarface | i'd have to boot it to know |
| 11:43.12 | gnarface | maybe they included galculator instead? |
| 11:43.48 | Beerbelott | I never took that much time to search into graphical menus before |
| 11:43.55 | Beerbelott | Maybe I missed it... |
| 11:44.24 | Beerbelott | I ended up spawning it through cmd |
| 11:44.25 | Beerbelott | ^^ |
| 11:44.47 | gnarface | yea it may just not be in the menu |
| 11:45.27 | Beerbelott | Well... how am I supposed to compute partition size without it? :( |
| 11:46.18 | gnarface | well you could always add it to the menu, though i'm not clear on why that's necessary if you said you were able to launch it from a command-line |
| 11:47.42 | Beerbelott | it felt hacky. WHat's the point of the desktop env, then? |
| 11:47.53 | Beerbelott | xcalc is... basic. |
| 11:48.37 | gnarface | well i can't tell you if it's an omission of a menu generation package or if it's just that way because that's how it is in debian |
| 11:49.17 | gnarface | feel free to complain about it through the appropriate channels |
| 11:49.48 | gnarface | they are taking bug reports and feature requests |
| 11:51.04 | gnarface | i know they're considering feature requests though in general for the most part, changes to existing packages have been limited to removal of systemd dependency, and that's by design |
| 11:51.20 | gnarface | people want a drop-in replacement for wheezy |
| 11:51.50 | gnarface | so if xcalc doesn't show up in the menu, it's probably just because that's how it was packaged |
| 11:51.58 | gnarface | (by debian) |
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| 13:08.21 | fsmithred | Beerbelott, xcalc does not have its own .desktop file. Xcalc can be found in the Debian menu under Applications, Science, Mathematics |
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| 13:40.41 | nailyk | I wanna try devuan. Two questions: NETINST.iso ~= 270MB. What happens to the debian netinst 20MB iso? |
| 13:41.11 | nailyk | on files.devuan.org doesn't looks like there is a 'debian9' installer. Where can I find it please? |
| 13:41.14 | nailyk | Thanks =) |
| 13:41.26 | gnarface | afaik there *isn't* a businesscard iso |
| 13:41.37 | gnarface | i don't think it was expected that anyone would need it |
| 13:42.38 | gnarface | there may not be a installer for ascii either |
| 13:42.47 | gnarface | you probably have to build one yourself |
| 13:43.06 | gnarface | i'm not sure about that either though |
| 13:44.19 | gnarface | what hardware are you planning on using, if i may ask? is there a problem with the netinst iso? |
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| 13:47.37 | gnarface | if you want to try "devuan9" it's very easy to upgrade |
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| 13:51.53 | parazyd | it's devuan 2, not 9 |
| 13:52.12 | parazyd | and shouldn't be considered a "devuan stretch" |
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| 13:55.26 | djph | gnarface: far as I can tell, teh only way to get ascii is install jessie, then swap the repos, then upgrade |
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| 14:09.04 | fsmithred | you can do a debootstrap install of ascii |
| 14:09.51 | fsmithred | and I've seen ascii as a choice in expert install in the jessie installer isos, but I don't know if that was in a beta or final |
| 14:10.00 | fsmithred | or if it worked |
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| 14:50.08 | KatolaZ | nailyk: you are probably referring to the NETBOOT not to NETINST |
| 14:52.22 | nailyk | http://ftp2.fr.debian.org/debian/dists/Debian8.8/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/ |
| 14:52.25 | nailyk | it seems :) |
| 14:52.35 | KatolaZ | but it's netboot, not netinst :) |
| 14:53.17 | KatolaZ | there is no installer image of devuan ascii so far |
| 14:53.47 | nailyk | yes ascii installer, exactly what I want thk :) |
| 14:53.53 | nailyk | ok sad there is no |
| 14:54.19 | nailyk | Really specific graphic setup. Should work with graphical installer |
| 14:54.46 | nailyk | I like mini.iso because I made an 'universal installer' usb key with a lot of mini.iso from different distributions |
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| 14:55.07 | nailyk | yes I guess it is easy to upgrade but it is waste of time, that's why I asked :) |
| 14:56.00 | KatolaZ | nailyk: I know, but it's better to have no installers than one installer of which people would complain :) |
| 14:56.14 | KatolaZ | since people are quite good at complaining ;) |
| 14:56.28 | parazyd | haha |
| 14:56.39 | nailyk | :s don't get it sorry |
| 14:56.50 | KatolaZ | nailyk: ascii has not been released yet |
| 14:56.55 | KatolaZ | so there is no installer |
| 14:57.06 | KatolaZ | since ascii is not complete atm, and needs more work |
| 14:57.14 | KatolaZ | there is no point into providing an installer |
| 14:57.33 | KatolaZ | because people would just complain of the fact that the provided installer is not complete |
| 14:57.39 | KatolaZ | which is something we already know |
| 14:57.40 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 14:58.00 | nailyk | oh ok get it now ;) I guessed you talked about the graphical installer. |
| 14:58.06 | KatolaZ | oh no |
| 14:58.14 | nailyk | yes am good at complaingin too :p |
| 14:58.23 | KatolaZ | no difference between graphical and traditional here |
| 14:58.32 | KatolaZ | just between "working" or "needs more love" |
| 14:58.40 | KatolaZ | s/or/and |
| 14:58.54 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 14:59.07 | zyliwax | graphical is the one that needs more love ;) |
| 14:59.21 | KatolaZ | zyliwax: uh? |
| 14:59.34 | zyliwax | traditional = working |
| 14:59.39 | KatolaZ | there is no difference between the graphical installer and the ncurses one, that I am aware... |
| 14:59.49 | KatolaZ | zyliwax: are you talking of jessie? |
| 15:00.39 | zyliwax | eh don't mind me :) i debootstrapped my dev1 jessie install and couldn't be happier |
| 15:01.06 | KatolaZ | no zyliwax just wanted to know if there are outstanding issues |
| 15:01.22 | zyliwax | oh, no, i'm just being silly -- seriously don't mind me :) |
| 15:01.26 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 15:01.44 | zyliwax | i like my terminals, that's all |
| 15:01.50 | KatolaZ | so do I |
| 15:02.22 | KatolaZ | and I have plenty |
| 15:02.31 | zyliwax | also happy that backports has my backup software (borgbackup) |
| 15:03.06 | KatolaZ | never heard of it |
| 15:03.16 | zyliwax | it had a dep on some python3 package, at first it wouldn't install borgbackup since it needed a later version than the one it required |
| 15:04.16 | zyliwax | turns out the python3 package had a newer version in -backports, so i installed it explicitly with "-t jessie-backports" after which i could "apt install borgbackup" just fine |
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| 15:04.52 | zyliwax | is this the best practice for doing something like this though? i am coming back into the apt world after several years of very casual understanding of the system |
| 15:05.52 | zyliwax | KatolaZ: borgbackup is a python-based deduplicating archiving suite with compression, encryption, and fuse-mounting of archives -- lots of folks consider it the gold standard of backups |
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| 15:06.28 | aitor | hi |
| 15:07.09 | KatolaZ | yes zyliwax was reading on their webpage |
| 15:08.31 | KatolaZ | well, it has been around for a couple of years, so maybe "gold standard" is a bit too much :) |
| 15:08.39 | KatolaZ | but it looks definitely interesting |
| 15:08.41 | KatolaZ | thanks for the pointer |
| 15:11.15 | fsmithred | there are some packages in ascii that have newer versions in jessie or jessie-backports |
| 15:11.52 | fsmithred | in some cases, you can use them, and in others you can't. As mentioned, ascii needs some work. It's happening. |
| 15:15.09 | zyliwax | that description was from memory mind you |
| 15:15.22 | aitor | i can build installers for ascii |
| 15:15.39 | zyliwax | yeah, i am totally fine with jessie for now = stability |
| 15:16.08 | aitor | mmmh :) |
| 15:16.22 | aitor | sad news :( |
| 15:16.34 | fsmithred | ? |
| 15:16.51 | aitor | yes, fsmithred |
| 15:17.01 | fsmithred | what's the sad news? |
| 15:17.14 | aitor | linux_3.16.44 doesn't work with vdev in live mode |
| 15:17.43 | aitor | 3.16.7 worked |
| 15:17.48 | fsmithred | how??? |
| 15:17.57 | aitor | but i suspect the origin of the issue... |
| 15:18.18 | fsmithred | live-boot needs udevadm |
| 15:18.34 | aitor | today i've been working on that |
| 15:18.36 | fsmithred | how did it work with 3.16.7? |
| 15:18.46 | fsmithred | was udev still installed? |
| 15:19.38 | aitor | there is a common differece between 4.9 or 3.16.44 compared with 3.16.7 |
| 15:20.41 | fsmithred | what's that? |
| 15:21.11 | fsmithred | I never got it to work except if udev was still there |
| 15:21.18 | nailyk | sorry, I probably missed something, is there a netboot cd for devuan 2 (based on debian 9)? |
| 15:21.28 | aitor | may be, the origin of the issue is in the sunvdec driver |
| 15:21.54 | aitor | but i'm not sure |
| 15:21.56 | fsmithred | nailyk, there's a netinstall iso that's around 200MB |
| 15:22.26 | KatolaZ | nailyk: there is no installer for devuan ascii |
| 15:22.33 | KatolaZ | _no_ installer |
| 15:22.35 | aitor | i added a patch, and now i'm building the kernel again |
| 15:22.39 | fsmithred | oh right. 2 |
| 15:22.41 | fsmithred | two |
| 15:22.44 | KatolaZ | devuan ascii has not been released |
| 15:22.47 | fsmithred | ASCII |
| 15:23.02 | fsmithred | trying to make alpha desktop-live iso right now |
| 15:23.13 | nailyk | good. Can you link me please? I cannot find the v2. installer on file.devuan.org |
| 15:23.13 | fsmithred | pre-alpha, really |
| 15:23.18 | fsmithred | link you? |
| 15:23.31 | nailyk | *send me a link? |
| 15:23.35 | fsmithred | file:///on/my/harddrive |
| 15:23.45 | fsmithred | and this one is not going out anywhere |
| 15:23.53 | aitor | i can build the kernel in a very easy way, even the kernel has been packaged including all the .udeb packages |
| 15:23.55 | nailyk | scp fsmithred:///on/my/harddrive . |
| 15:24.09 | nailyk | fsmithred: oh ok. Not released yet. Thanks |
| 15:24.15 | aitor | i can build the installer* i meant |
| 15:24.49 | fsmithred | aitor, can you teach me how? |
| 15:28.12 | aitor | i changed drivers/block/sunvdc.c |
| 15:28.51 | aitor | download 3.16.7 and 3.16.44, and compare this file |
| 15:29.32 | fsmithred | and that affects booting with vdev? |
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| 15:30.27 | aitor | save... |
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| 15:33.14 | sepisoad | how may i install a devuan mini iso |
| 15:33.37 | sepisoad | is there a tutorial for that? |
| 15:33.59 | aitor | fsmithred: read the commented header of the following function: |
| 15:34.12 | aitor | static int vdc_ioctl(struct block_device *bdev, fmode_t mode, unsigned command, unsigned long argument) |
| 15:34.18 | Akuli | sepisoad, write it to a cd, make sure you have an ethernet, boot from the cd and follow instructions :) |
| 15:34.24 | sepisoad | im trying to install a devuan mini iso inside virtual box |
| 15:34.43 | sepisoad | Akuli, ^ |
| 15:34.48 | aitor | in drivers/block/sunvdec.c |
| 15:34.51 | Akuli | sepisoad, same thing in virtualbox except that you don't need a real cd at all and you don't need to worry about internet |
| 15:35.02 | KatolaZ | sepisoad: are you talking of minimal-live? |
| 15:35.11 | Akuli | sepisoad, virtualbox should ask you for an iso when you start the vm for the first time |
| 15:35.45 | sepisoad | oops, seems that I downloaded a minimal live iso |
| 15:35.47 | aitor | it says something like: |
| 15:35.50 | aitor | Add ioctl/CDROM_GET_CAPABILITY to support cdrom_id in udev |
| 15:35.58 | sepisoad | is there a way to install a minimal live iso? |
| 15:36.00 | aitor | when vdisk_mtype is VD_MEDIA_TYPE_CD or VD_MEDIA_TYPE_DVD. |
| 15:36.11 | aitor | Needed to be able to install inside an ldom from an iso image. |
| 15:36.14 | sepisoad | Akuli, KatolaZ ^ |
| 15:36.17 | KatolaZ | sepisoad: yes, use refractainstaller |
| 15:36.28 | KatolaZ | the command "refractainstaller" |
| 15:36.42 | KatolaZ | will ask youa couple of questions |
| 15:37.06 | aitor | this function exists in 3.16.44 and 4.9, but not in 3.16.7 |
| 15:37.40 | sepisoad | KatolaZ, Ok, i asks me the root user password, what is it? |
| 15:37.42 | aitor | and vdev only works in live mode with 3.16.7 |
| 15:38.21 | fsmithred | aitor, yeah, I see it's in 3.16 but not in 3.14 |
| 15:39.30 | fsmithred | sepisoad, toor |
| 15:39.32 | aitor | i underline the header comment: to support cdrom_id in udev... |
| 15:40.09 | KatolaZ | sepisoad: I guess that is the password you would like your root user to have once installed.... |
| 15:40.23 | KatolaZ | (you are launching refractasnapshot as root, right?) |
| 15:41.02 | aitor | the error booting vdev in live mode says comething like: can't access to cdrom_id, udevadm not found or something similar... |
| 15:41.20 | sepisoad | fsmithred, yes, thanks |
| 15:41.28 | sepisoad | KatolaZ, thanks |
| 15:42.01 | fsmithred | yeah, as I said, live-boot scripts use udevadm |
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| 15:42.29 | KatolaZ | sepisoad: no |
| 15:42.31 | KatolaZ | np |
| 15:42.34 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 15:43.41 | aitor | fsmithred, KatolaZ, sepisoad: need to go, see you :) |
| 15:43.53 | fsmithred | bye, thanks |
| 15:44.02 | aitor | :) |
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| 15:44.29 | KatolaZ | bye aitor |
| 15:46.38 | sepisoad | bye |
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| 17:09.15 | somerandomnick | Seems Devuan security is a problem again. :-( |
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| 17:39.43 | parazyd | somerandomnick: ? |
| 17:40.55 | somerandomnick | Seems there is a GNU TLS update. |
| 17:43.01 | parazyd | have we forked gnutls? |
| 17:50.18 | zdzichu | we allegely forked whole debian |
| 17:50.44 | nailyk | mhhhh. You don't use the 'original' packages? |
| 17:52.42 | brabo | has serious deja-vu feeling |
| 17:52.45 | brabo | ;) |
| 17:53.31 | brabo | i was confused about that too, just going on the news i saw here and there it sounded as a full fork |
| 17:54.36 | somerandomnick | Still got a machine with original Debian and they just moved to 3.3.8-6+deb8u6, which makes me suspect Devuan may need a similar update due to similar issue. |
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| 17:55.29 | somerandomnick | A number of Devuan packages follow Debian pretty closely, which means security updates on Debian are precursors to security updates on Devuan. |
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| 17:56.32 | somerandomnick | Problem is Devuan's current security infrastructure sometimes crashes. |
| 17:56.47 | brabo | somerandomnick: root@molly:~# apt list --upgradable |
| 17:56.47 | brabo | Listing... Done |
| 17:56.48 | brabo | libgnutls-deb0-28/stable-security 3.3.8-6+deb8u6 i386 [upgradable from: 3.3.8-6+deb8u5] |
| 17:57.26 | brabo | gnutls-bin/stable-security 3.3.8-6+deb8u6 i386 |
| 17:57.29 | backwoodsman | Hi all, I'm trying to install k9copy, which depends on mencoder, but I can't find a mencoder version for which I can meet the dependencies. Any suggestions? (this is on Devuan Jessie) |
| 17:57.31 | brabo | seems there |
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| 17:58.00 | v3n | Hi! |
| 17:58.04 | brabo | hi v3n |
| 17:58.30 | somerandomnick | Which might merely mean the update *just* appeared and I merely noticed the small lag |
| 17:58.38 | brabo | yes, it could |
| 17:58.58 | brabo | i was not trying to prove you wrong, merely stating that what i can see now is that the update is there |
| 17:59.17 | brabo | my time machine broke this morning so i can't go back to check ;) |
| 17:59.44 | somerandomnick | Update is now visible. |
| 17:59.58 | brabo | somerandomnick: i can half imagine some cron script running on certain intervals to pull in updates from debian repos |
| 18:00.20 | brabo | small delays won't really make the difference i guess |
| 18:00.43 | somerandomnick | So non-issue, I tend to worry when hints of security issues show up. |
| 18:01.09 | brabo | somerandomnick: i'd say that is a quite good tendency, but don't stress too much either, it is not healthy ;) |
| 18:01.34 | brabo | it is people worrying and paying attention that catch issues :) |
| 18:02.26 | somerandomnick | I wasn't stressing, this just showed up today; as opposed to a few months back when security updates got weeks behind schedule. |
| 18:02.38 | somerandomnick | Sorry to bother about a non-issue. |
| 18:03.50 | brabo | somerandomnick: don't be sorry :/ |
| 18:05.11 | somerandomnick | Now to bother others... |
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| 18:11.53 | backwoodsman | no ideas about the mencoder problem? |
| 18:13.09 | brabo | backwoodsman: idk |
| 18:14.39 | backwoodsman | Thanks brabo. Maybe I'll try on the forum when I have a little more time. |
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| 18:23.13 | banshi | i luv devuan |
| 18:25.21 | banshi | at gog.com you can buy good games for very small price |
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| 18:43.56 | AlexLikeRock | GNU ! |
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| 19:39.12 | msiism | i'm trying to backport the sylpheed e-mail client from ascii to jessie. when i run apt-get build-dep, i get the error that dependencies cannot be satisfied because "libgpgme-dev" cannot be found. the problem is: jessie only has libgpgme11(-dev), libgpgme(-dev) is only in ascii. would it make sense to backport libgpgme(-dev) first? |
| 19:43.36 | brabo | msiism: idk anything about it, but seems to me you could check if the ascii version is newer, and if so, if the ascii sylpheed depends on that version or the changes it carries |
| 19:44.01 | brabo | if those are the case, i guess you need to backport it for sure |
| 19:45.18 | msiism | brabo: i want to backport it because it is newer in ascii and the newer version seems to bring some major improvements. |
| 19:45.54 | brabo | yeah i was talking about the package in question, the libgpgme |
| 19:46.09 | brabo | it was clear to me you wanted to backport sylpheed ;) |
| 19:49.15 | msiism | brabo: libgpgme11-dev (1.5.1-6) from jessie seems to have been replaced by libgpgme-dev (1.8.0-3 and others) in stretch |
| 19:49.31 | msiism | i mean ascii |
| 19:50.25 | msiism | i just wonder how apt on jessie would know about such a build dependency of sylpheed then. |
| 19:50.30 | brabo | okay so the ascii libgpgme is newer than jessies, that is one question answered, now i guess the need of backporting libgpgme as well depends partly on wether the ascii sylpheed depends on any of those changes |
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| 19:50.49 | msiism | right |
| 19:50.57 | brabo | if it depends on the changes in the newer libgpgme you dont have any choise i'd think |
| 19:51.02 | brabo | *choice |
| 19:51.10 | msiism | but i could give it a try |
| 19:51.51 | fsmithred | msiism, it looks like you could install libgpgme-dev and libgpgme11 from ascii. (that's aptitude's second suggestion) |
| 19:52.34 | msiism | fsmithred: ok. |
| 19:53.14 | fsmithred | oh, you'll get a few more, too |
| 19:53.20 | msiism | what confuses me is that apt on a jessie system seems to know of a package as a buld dep on sylpheed that only exists in ascii. |
| 19:53.37 | fsmithred | libassuan0 libgpg-error0 |
| 19:53.47 | fsmithred | the build deps come from the control file in the source |
| 19:54.05 | msiism | ok, that was because i still had the deb-src line for ascii in there |
| 19:54.06 | fsmithred | maybe someone screwed up listing versions |
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| 19:54.33 | msiism | i just commented that out and apt-get build-dep will run without error, as it seems. |
| 19:55.08 | fsmithred | yeah, but then are you missing something? |
| 19:55.29 | msiism | probably the package that apt doesn't know about anymore. |
| 19:55.41 | msiism | i'll just try it out. |
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| 20:00.08 | msiism | ok, it woin't build without libgbgme-dev |
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| 20:04.41 | msiism | installed libgpgme-dev from testing now |
| 20:05.13 | fsmithred | I'm doing it, too. So if we're wrong, we go down together. |
| 20:05.43 | fsmithred | uh oh |
| 20:05.49 | fsmithred | this does not look good |
| 20:05.53 | fsmithred | msiism, ^^^ |
| 20:06.41 | fsmithred | after installing the libgpgme packages from ascii, when I re-run apt-get build dep, there's a long list of stuff that will be installed |
| 20:06.45 | msiism | fsmithred: well, the only thing that's gonna go down for me i my testing machine... |
| 20:06.56 | fsmithred | I want to make sure they're not all from testing |
| 20:07.06 | fsmithred | oh, this is my main system here |
| 20:07.15 | msiism | fsmithred: ok, well i forgot to run apt-get build-dep again... |
| 20:07.19 | fsmithred | but I think it's soon to be replaced anyway |
| 20:07.26 | msiism | and i'm building the package right now |
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| 20:09.12 | msiism | fsmithred: here apt just replaced libgpgme11-dev with libgpgme-dev and also added one other package (presumably from testing). |
| 20:09.31 | fsmithred | ok, maybe you had the others |
| 20:10.48 | msiism | well, right, prbably because i ran a jessie-only apt-get build-dep before. |
| 20:11.21 | fsmithred | ha! last changelog entry is about fixing build-deps for gpgme |
| 20:14.24 | msiism | my build failed |
| 20:14.58 | fsmithred | what build command did you use? |
| 20:15.29 | msiism | dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -us -uc -b |
| 20:15.45 | fsmithred | what's the -r? |
| 20:15.55 | msiism | "root access command" |
| 20:16.18 | fsmithred | ok, I'm doing fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -b |
| 20:16.32 | fsmithred | and it's working |
| 20:16.51 | msiism | ok. |
| 20:16.52 | fsmithred | I'll bet your missing some build-deps. There were half a dozen more after adding libgpgme |
| 20:17.08 | msiism | well, it worked for me as well, until it stopped |
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| 20:17.24 | fsmithred | ok, fair enough. It's still running. |
| 20:17.47 | fsmithred | error |
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| 20:20.21 | msiism | when i run apt-get build-dep sylpheed with te ascii repos also in place i get the that version 3.5.1-2 of sylpheed cannot be found |
| 20:21.21 | msiism | ok, so this seem tricky and a potential waste of time. it's probably best to go with the old version of sylpheed in stable now and wait fot ascii coming along. |
| 20:22.10 | fsmithred | yeah, I'm probably going to upgrade to ascii soon |
| 20:22.28 | msiism | isn't the debian release scheduled for tomorrow? |
| 20:22.38 | fsmithred | I don't know the exact date |
| 20:22.47 | msiism | i thought i had read that |
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| 20:23.57 | msiism | is there any possibility to tell approximately how long it will take for ascii to get stable then? |
| 20:24.12 | fsmithred | no |
| 20:25.01 | fsmithred | for less bloated systems, not too long |
| 20:25.44 | msiism | funny that you say that. i just had the feeling yesterday that even my system is kind of bloated. |
| 20:26.16 | fsmithred | are you one of the i3 people? |
| 20:26.53 | msiism | no, i use openbox. |
| 20:26.59 | fsmithred | what's the command to uninstall the build-deps? |
| 20:27.13 | msiism | no idea |
| 20:27.17 | fsmithred | oh, I have several openbox ascii installs. The work well. |
| 20:27.27 | fsmithred | (not that I've done a whole lot with them) |
| 20:28.21 | msiism | i'm especially looking formward to "sha256sum -c SHA256SUMS --ignore-missing" |
| 20:30.14 | KatolaZ | fsmithred: you should use pbuilder |
| 20:30.17 | brabo | msiism: ye today or tomorrow |
| 20:30.20 | KatolaZ | hope to have it included in d1h soon |
| 20:30.26 | fsmithred | cool |
| 20:30.55 | msiism | i just ran apt-get build-dep sylpheed again, having ascii and scii-src, but not jessie-src enabled in sources.list. it went without errors and wanted to install nothing |
| 20:31.04 | brabo | https://wiki.debian.org/ReleasePartyStretch |
| 20:32.55 | msiism | fsmithred: before i repeat a dpkg-buildpackage operation, do i have to clean up anything? |
| 20:34.13 | Death_Syn | it is about that time, isn't it |
| 20:34.47 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:35.28 | msiism | fsmithred: ok, runing the build process again, though i don't think it's gonna be successful. |
| 20:36.54 | fsmithred | debian/rules:32: recipe for target 'override_dh_strip' failed |
| 20:37.13 | msiism | right |
| 20:37.22 | msiism | it's probably going to happen again |
| 20:37.30 | fsmithred | I considered commenting out that line |
| 20:37.38 | fsmithred | but I have no idea what I'm doing |
| 20:38.37 | msiism | well, i want to use sylpheed for my daily work, so i don't really want to tinker with anything |
| 20:40.23 | msiism | ok, it failed again. giving up. |
| 20:41.59 | msiism | and now i'm going to revert my testing machine from a mixed stable/testing setup to stable-only... |
| 20:48.23 | msiism | i just wondered about one thing in the howto on that (https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=512). shouldn't it state "make sure, the apt lines for stable are active in your sources.list" before step 2? |
| 20:50.44 | fsmithred | msiism, if you said that, then people will deactivate stable |
| 20:51.08 | fsmithred | assuming they read through the whole thing before doing it. |
| 20:51.29 | msiism | fsmithred: but i'm saying the opposite. |
| 20:51.51 | fsmithred | they'll think you forgot to say 'disable stable' in the first step |
| 20:51.56 | fsmithred | not everyone, but some will |
| 20:52.00 | fsmithred | or they'll ask you |
| 20:52.41 | msiism | ok, so better leave it out |
| 20:53.07 | msiism | i mean, it's sort of abvious that you should not have them commented out when you revert to stable, right? |
| 20:53.32 | fsmithred | yeah, and you're starting from stable to begin with |
| 20:54.24 | msiism | right: but there was that wierd thing that you would have to deactivate the deb-src for jessie to be abpe to fetch source packages from ascii, i remember. so you could have that still commented out |
| 20:54.52 | fsmithred | you also don't say to add the testing lines to sources.list |
| 20:54.59 | msiism | but, well, that's more like a bug anyway. |
| 20:55.03 | msiism | right |
| 20:57.39 | msiism | ok, now i'm confused. after bringing my system back to stable-only, i still have libgpgme-dev, which is not even in jessie. |
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| 21:04.49 | msiism | just tested downloading source packages with dec-src lines for testing and stable in place: |
| 21:05.19 | msiism | if you just "apt-get source [pkg]", you will get the source oackage from ascii. |
| 21:05.38 | msiism | if you "apt-get source -t jessie [pkg]", then the one from jessie |
| 21:07.05 | msiism | if you, however, run "apt-get source -t ascii [pkg]" there will be an error: "The value "ascii" is invalid for APT::Default-Release as such a release is not available in the sources". |
| 21:08.40 | msiism | i wonder what the rationale behind that would be |
| 21:10.12 | fsmithred | apt-get -t ascii source <package> is correct |
| 21:10.18 | fsmithred | option before action |
| 21:10.24 | fsmithred | or... |
| 21:10.32 | fsmithred | package must come right after action |
| 21:11.41 | fsmithred | I have gotten that error in the past, but I'm not getting it now |
| 21:13.08 | msiism | ok, let me retry |
| 21:13.26 | fsmithred | do you have a defaultrelease file in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d? |
| 21:14.21 | msiism | no, doesn't seem like it |
| 21:15.34 | msiism | apt-get -t ascii source [pkg] gives me the same error |
| 21:16.52 | msiism | also, when i explicitly select "jessie", apt doesn't care about the order of options and actions at all |
| 21:17.12 | msiism | i just did apt-get source [pkg] -t jessie and that worked as well |
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| 21:50.48 | msiism | getting the following error trying to install the base system for ascii: rsyslog depends on libjson-c2 (>= 0.10); however: package libjson-c2 is not installed. |
| 21:51.31 | msiism | and: rsyslog depends on liblognorm2 (>= 1.1.2); however: Package liblognorm2 ist not installed. |
| 21:52.22 | msiism | i'm using the exper install from the netinst image of devian jessie beta |
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| 22:06.09 | fsmithred | msiism, rsyslog is not ready. Use syslog-ng or busybox-syslogd instead |
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| 22:09.37 | fsmithred | you might not be able to do it that way right now |
| 22:12.54 | msiism | fsmithred: ok, i see. then i'll just wait. |
| 22:13.06 | fsmithred | debootstrap install works |
| 22:13.24 | msiism | ok, maybe i'll look into that |
| 22:14.44 | fsmithred | https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1315#p1315 |
| 22:15.49 | fsmithred | modify the debootstrap command for ascii: --exclude=rsyslog,alsa-base --include=some-other-syslog and don't exlcude libsystemd0 |
| 22:17.53 | msiism | fsmithred: ok, noted |
| 22:18.18 | fsmithred | if you like minimal installs, you'll love it |
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| 22:18.59 | msiism | i think i'll just have to read it a couple of times more before i actually try it out. reminds me of installing gentoo or voidlinux |
| 22:19.20 | fsmithred | yeah, it's kinda like a gentoo install, but easier |
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| 22:21.11 | msiism | minimal install sounds find. i want to understand the building block of the ssstem better. |
| 22:23.09 | msiism | i'll try it sometime this weekend. |
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| 22:39.59 | gnu_srs1 | (12:54:31 PM) gnu_srs: Hello. Can somebody check the file sizes of Sources.{gz,xz} at: https://packages.devuan.org/devuan/dists/{ascii-proposed,experimental}/main/source/ ? |
| 22:41.17 | gnu_srs1 | (12:55:53 PM) gnu_srs: If the sizes are 20 and 32 bytes respectively, they are empty. Thanks! |
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