| 00:01.00 | golinux | Not sure how antix does it but this how MX is systemd-free: https://mxlinux.org/wiki/system/systemd - just disabled by default but not at all neutered . . . |
| 00:01.13 | golinux | Nematocyst: ^^^ |
| 00:01.33 | Nematocyst | yeah, i figured it wasn't as thorough as devuan |
| 00:02.06 | golinux | Those two distros are closely related so I assume thinking much alike. |
| 00:02.09 | Nematocyst | partly it is because of lack of the more advanced window managers |
| 00:03.21 | golinux | They don't touch systemd. It's all there just waiting to do whatever on zero day . . . |
| 00:07.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | on systemd I'm not waiting for day 0 but rather for the criticality incident |
| 00:08.43 | *** join/#devuan golinux_ (~golinux@2a03:b0c0:2:d0::f7:f001) |
| 00:08.45 | *** join/#devuan golinux_ (~golinux@unaffiliated/golinux) |
| 00:11.36 | *** join/#devuan paw_ (~afong@108.161.117.181) |
| 00:11.39 | *** join/#devuan Centurion-Dan2 (~Thunderbi@office.centurion.net.nz) |
| 00:12.03 | *** join/#devuan DocScrutinizer05 (~saturn@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 00:12.08 | *** join/#devuan DeFender (~DeFender1@89-138-182-62.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 00:12.10 | *** join/#devuan rafalcpp (~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl) |
| 00:12.11 | *** join/#devuan unixman (~aunixman@209.165.134.7) |
| 00:12.12 | *** join/#devuan unixman (~aunixman@unaffiliated/eracc) |
| 00:12.14 | *** join/#devuan Olufunmilayo (~Olufunmil@unaffiliated/olufunmilayo) |
| 00:12.25 | *** join/#devuan tarbz3 (~Thunderbi@186.23.75.201) |
| 00:13.07 | *** join/#devuan muep__ (twingo@otitsun.oulu.fi) |
| 00:13.11 | *** join/#devuan NeonLicht (ama@shell.bshellz.net) |
| 00:13.12 | Nematocyst | i just fired up that machine. i don't see any systemd there, other than udev-systemd. not showing up with ps aux either |
| 00:13.13 | *** join/#devuan GuntherD1 (~guntherdw@quadran.system33.be) |
| 00:13.18 | *** join/#devuan rah_ (rah@verain.settrans.net) |
| 00:13.19 | *** join/#devuan lastebil_ (truck@109.163.213.199) |
| 00:13.19 | *** join/#devuan indeo (indeo@hilla.kapsi.fi) |
| 00:13.24 | *** join/#devuan humma_ (gun@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/session) |
| 00:13.24 | *** join/#devuan zdzichu_ (~zdzichu@2002:b906:1d37::137) |
| 00:13.24 | *** join/#devuan stybla_ (stybla@pylon.zeratul.org) |
| 00:13.38 | *** join/#devuan koollman_ (samson_t@sp1.kooll.info) |
| 00:13.39 | *** join/#devuan buZz_ (~buzz@192.161.48.59) |
| 00:13.42 | *** join/#devuan p2-mate (~p2@emantra.psychaos.be) |
| 00:13.49 | *** join/#devuan KittenNIX (~KittenGNU@unaffiliated/kittengnu) |
| 00:13.50 | *** join/#devuan CoolHand_1969 (~CoolHand@zachfamily.org) |
| 00:13.52 | *** join/#devuan obarb (~brabo@globalshellz/owner/brabo) |
| 00:13.53 | *** join/#devuan hellais_ (~art@37.218.240.126) |
| 00:13.55 | *** join/#devuan aleskandro (~aleskandr@lucylaika.ovh) |
| 00:13.56 | *** join/#devuan _william_ (~william@LFbn-1-530-109.w86-245.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 00:13.56 | *** join/#devuan __stephe1 (~stephen@thatit.be) |
| 00:13.57 | *** join/#devuan nextime_ (~nextime@za.nexlab.net) |
| 00:13.57 | *** join/#devuan oyvindje_ (oyvindje@gateway/shell/tihlde/session) |
| 00:14.02 | *** join/#devuan tsadok_ (~weirdidio@cpe-75-185-35-110.columbus.res.rr.com) |
| 00:14.04 | *** join/#devuan ryuujin_ (~ryuujin@server.mirchaemanuel.com) |
| 00:14.04 | *** join/#devuan tarragon_ (~invitado@37.223.225.9) |
| 00:14.09 | *** join/#devuan Leander (~Leander@132.147.77.50) |
| 00:14.10 | *** join/#devuan telmich_ (~deadghost@2a0a:e5c0:0:2:400:36ff:fea8:d041) |
| 00:14.11 | *** join/#devuan telmich_ (~deadghost@gpm/telmich) |
| 00:14.13 | *** join/#devuan rypervenche_ (~rypervenc@unaffiliated/rypervenche) |
| 00:14.18 | *** join/#devuan atome_ (~atome@sandbox.devmind.net) |
| 00:14.51 | *** join/#devuan LongHairedHacker (~hacker@2a03:4000:6:8177:2::1) |
| 00:15.30 | *** join/#devuan Besnik_b (~Besnik@athedsl-219862.home.otenet.gr) |
| 00:15.43 | *** join/#devuan Centurion_Dan2 (~Icedove@office.centurion.net.nz) |
| 00:15.50 | *** join/#devuan jmic (~jmic@li171-92.members.linode.com) |
| 00:16.11 | *** join/#devuan amphi (~amphi@81.32.135.222) |
| 00:20.26 | *** join/#devuan infobot (~infobot@rikers.org) |
| 00:20.26 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 | https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
| 00:21.10 | *** join/#devuan amphi (~amphi@222.red-81-32-135.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) |
| 00:21.58 | *** join/#devuan Xiaoman (~Xiaoman@unaffiliated/xiaoman) |
| 00:22.38 | *** join/#devuan tg (~x@unaffiliated/tg) |
| 00:24.36 | *** join/#devuan jaromil (~jaromil@chat.dyne.org) |
| 00:24.36 | *** join/#devuan berndj (~berndj@mail.azna.co.za) |
| 00:24.36 | *** join/#devuan freemangordon (~ivo@46.249.74.23) |
| 00:24.36 | *** join/#devuan ttkv (501@46-97-229-216.sr2.pon.net) |
| 00:24.36 | *** join/#devuan solarnetone (~scott@rrcs-67-79-182-229.se.biz.rr.com) |
| 00:26.02 | *** join/#devuan jaromil (~jaromil@unaffiliated/jaromil) |
| 00:28.16 | Nematocyst | it's amusing to me that one of the arguments for systemd is faster booting. i haven't done more than 10 machines, but evey one i've moved off of systemd (some -> devuan, some -> antix, some removing it from jessie on headless servers), in each case boot times improved |
| 00:29.14 | debdog | <LP mode> only applies on laptops |
| 00:30.42 | *** join/#devuan early (~early@68.ip-149-56-14.net) |
| 00:54.21 | *** join/#devuan blitzed (~blitzed@cpe-75-80-44-59.san.res.rr.com) |
| 00:59.49 | *** join/#devuan nighty- (~nighty@kyotolabs.asahinet.com) |
| 01:00.29 | *** join/#devuan guru_ (~guru@2601:196:8700:c91:3252:cbff:fec5:6f94) |
| 01:15.59 | jonadab | Booting, isn't that the thing you do when there's been a power outage and you have to wait for fsck anyway, because it's been hundreds of days since the last fsck? |
| 01:17.53 | furrywolf | you power off for power outages? pm-hibernate! :) |
| 01:18.11 | jonadab | Well, you know, desktop systems. |
| 01:18.22 | furrywolf | that's what a UPS is for. |
| 01:18.32 | jonadab | At some point I should get a UPS again. The one I had was consumer grade and died the first time there was a power outage. |
| 01:18.44 | jonadab | Ought to get a real one I guess. |
| 01:25.08 | *** join/#devuan jathan (~jathan@189.216.182.62) |
| 01:34.30 | *** join/#devuan Humpelstilzchen (erik@x4e36b608.dyn.telefonica.de) |
| 01:44.30 | *** join/#devuan minnesotags (~herbgarci@184-100-78-128.mpls.qwest.net) |
| 01:55.59 | *** join/#devuan Hoshpak (~Hoshpak@p200300C90BCA6300B5F771D318FCB6CA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 01:58.26 | Nematocyst | jonadab, well yes. except when you have just removed systemd from said server. kinda want to reboot it |
| 02:20.02 | *** join/#devuan zyliwax (~zyliwax@unaffiliated/zyliwax) |
| 02:22.46 | Captain_Beezay | have stack clash patches made it to devuan yet? |
| 02:24.30 | *** join/#devuan minnesotags (~herbgarci@71-220-39-233.mpls.qwest.net) |
| 02:25.19 | Xenguy | Me too |
| 02:25.36 | Xenguy | has a case of 'wrong window' tonight... |
| 02:25.59 | Xenguy | Time to hit the hay anyway |
| 02:32.48 | *** part/#devuan catprints (~realperso@172.58.83.242) |
| 02:49.12 | Captain_Beezay | noticed slow mirrors,volunteer mirrors needed in europe? |
| 02:52.52 | furrywolf | mirrors are always needed |
| 02:53.16 | furrywolf | especially ones on fast pipes. |
| 03:35.18 | *** join/#devuan JohnTheRipper (~JohnTheRi@2.229.193.226) |
| 03:55.55 | *** join/#devuan fsda6342 (~User@host-69-145-45-32.shr-wy.client.bresnan.net) |
| 03:59.34 | *** join/#devuan minnesotags (~herbgarci@71-220-63-108.mpls.qwest.net) |
| 04:09.08 | *** join/#devuan minnesotags (~herbgarci@71-220-63-108.mpls.qwest.net) |
| 04:13.26 | *** join/#devuan thijso (~thijs@109-46-132-5.ftth.glasoperator.nl) |
| 04:19.44 | *** join/#devuan menip (~menip@c-73-83-133-80.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 04:20.58 | *** join/#devuan LeoTh3o (~LeoTh3o@phoxden.xyz) |
| 04:34.59 | *** join/#devuan kbob (~bob@unaffiliated/bobkamau) |
| 04:41.06 | *** join/#devuan minnesotags (~herbgarci@71-220-11-183.mpls.qwest.net) |
| 04:47.31 | *** join/#devuan pekman (~pekman@unaffiliated/pekman) |
| 04:51.47 | *** join/#devuan minnesotags1 (~herbgarci@71-220-14-196.mpls.qwest.net) |
| 05:01.46 | *** join/#devuan minnesotags (~herbgarci@71-220-15-219.mpls.qwest.net) |
| 05:09.38 | *** join/#devuan thijso (~thijs@109-46-132-5.ftth.glasoperator.nl) |
| 05:18.37 | MinceR | fsmithred: thanks |
| 05:20.03 | *** join/#devuan alexlikerock (~alexliker@200.52.221.20) |
| 05:20.33 | alexlikerock | GNU! |
| 05:25.12 | MinceR | fnord |
| 05:25.16 | *** join/#devuan bazquxer (~bazquxer@gateway/tor-sasl/bazquxer) |
| 06:15.40 | *** join/#devuan knidos (~knidos@88.253.183.131) |
| 06:17.12 | *** join/#devuan cocoadaemon (~foo@2a01:e35:8a99:e90:1202:b5ff:fe91:e4ca) |
| 06:18.14 | *** join/#devuan clemens3 (~clemens@catv-80-99-165-190.catv.broadband.hu) |
| 06:20.11 | *** join/#devuan Wasp (~wasp@gruenau4.informatik.hu-berlin.de) |
| 06:20.51 | *** join/#devuan alexlikerock (~alexliker@200.52.221.20) |
| 06:23.02 | *** join/#devuan lowin (~lowin@85.204.216.128) |
| 06:24.47 | lowin | Hello. I have installed networkmanager and everything seems good but I can't seem to manage to find a way to disable ipv6.. The problem is that something(maybe networkmanager) pulls ipv6 dns ip from dhcp server and overrides my custom ipv4 dns for some reason |
| 06:24.56 | lowin | Any help is appreciated |
| 06:28.35 | lowin | I don't care about having ipv6 or not. I just want it to not mess with my dns settings. I even tried manually providing a custom ipv6 dns in network manager but it still reverts to using dhcpv6 dns within a few seconds of connecting |
| 06:28.58 | lowin | So maybe there is some other service than networkmanager doing some funny business? |
| 06:36.19 | *** join/#devuan lolose (~lowin@209.58.178.246) |
| 06:37.13 | *** join/#devuan user5465464 (~user@pD9577F83.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:37.43 | alexlikerock | lowin |
| 06:37.52 | alexlikerock | dobyou try WICD? |
| 06:38.00 | lowin | no |
| 06:38.02 | alexlikerock | do you*** |
| 06:38.31 | alexlikerock | i dont remembert . disablet ip6 |
| 06:38.43 | alexlikerock | at networkmanager |
| 06:40.37 | *** join/#devuan Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 06:56.29 | *** join/#devuan bpmedley (~bpm@c-24-72-144-105.ni.gigamonster.net) |
| 07:04.04 | *** join/#devuan JohnnyRun (~gianni@net94-124-67-2.static.bb.mainsoft.it) |
| 07:06.29 | *** join/#devuan Vall (~Vall@2602:ffda:ccc:1::d2fe:5848) |
| 07:09.21 | Vall | Captain_Beezay: I´m also interested on Devuan's response to StackClash |
| 07:11.02 | Vall | So far I've been able to determine that Debian itself has responded with updated packages for Kernel and GlibC: |
| 07:11.03 | Vall | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:11.03 | Vall | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:11.03 | Vall | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:11.03 | Vall | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:11.05 | Vall | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:11.07 | Vall | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:11.09 | Vall | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:11.54 | Vall | fsmithred (or any developer): will Devuan automatically get those DSA fixes? If so, when and how do I monitor? |
| 07:12.08 | Vall | (thanks in advance and sorry for the double paste above) |
| 07:12.50 | *** join/#devuan Irrwahn (UNKNOWN@p57993688.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:17.01 | *** join/#devuan Irrwahn_ (UNKNOWN@p57993370.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:28.54 | *** join/#devuan Oksanaa (~Wikiwide@Maemo/community/ex-council/Wikiwide) |
| 07:32.26 | *** join/#devuan Vizva (~Vizva@dslb-178-004-108-183.178.004.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 07:38.41 | *** join/#devuan Vall (~Vall@2602:ffda:ccc:1::d2fe:5848) |
| 07:42.35 | *** join/#devuan negev (~mark@5.148.47.146) |
| 07:42.59 | negev | hi, unattended updates don't seem to work on ascii, is that expected? |
| 07:47.56 | alexlikerock | yes . ascii its to bad boy. |
| 07:47.56 | *** join/#devuan reetp (~john@host81-136-189-171.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 07:48.11 | alexlikerock | not as well |
| 07:49.59 | *** join/#devuan reetp (~john@host81-136-189-171.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 07:51.13 | *** join/#devuan pitchum (~pitchum@freeture.gramaton.org) |
| 07:53.09 | *** join/#devuan Irrwahn (UNKNOWN@p57993370.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:02.51 | *** join/#devuan k0nsl (~k0nsl@feel.the.power.feel.the.k3k.su) |
| 08:02.51 | *** join/#devuan k0nsl (~k0nsl@unaffiliated/k0nsl) |
| 08:08.33 | *** join/#devuan Artemis3 (~artemis3@190-37-30-10.dyn.dsl.cantv.net) |
| 08:18.01 | *** part/#devuan alexlikerock (~alexliker@200.52.221.20) |
| 08:20.14 | *** join/#devuan thaller (thaller@nat/redhat/x-khckotcfqircwsbm) |
| 08:22.17 | *** join/#devuan kbob (~bob@unaffiliated/bobkamau) |
| 08:26.33 | Vall | To answer my own question regarding StackClash, seems the updates from Debian made it into Devuan already |
| 08:26.43 | *** join/#devuan SpOOky_ (~SpOOky@188.25.223.204) |
| 08:27.33 | Vall | Just did an "apt-get update", and then "apt-cache policy libc6" and "apt-cache policy linux-image-3.16.0-4-amd64" shows as candidates the versions listed in the DSA URLs I listed above |
| 08:27.49 | Vall | so it seems Devuan is good re: Stack Clash/StackClash |
| 08:28.08 | Vall | Captain_Beezay ^^^ |
| 08:48.21 | *** join/#devuan Vall (~Vall@2602:ffda:ccc:1::d2fe:5848) |
| 08:51.43 | gnarface | Vall: most the packages in jessie are in fact pulled from debian directly, unaltered. that should happen without delay. there are some cases where recompilation is necessary and that may slow stuff down, but so far that doesn't include the kernels |
| 08:52.05 | Vall | thanks for the info, gnarface. |
| 08:52.10 | gnarface | no problem |
| 08:52.24 | gnarface | i would have answered earlier to save you some time, but i wasn't here |
| 08:52.47 | Vall | And it seems it doesn't affect glibc (aka libc6) either, as it is also up-to-date regarding StackClash |
| 08:52.51 | *** join/#devuan cocoadaemon (~foo@x53.octopuce.fr) |
| 08:53.40 | gnarface | yea, so far the recompiled packages are just ones that have a direct dependency on systemd that has been added since wheezy |
| 08:54.06 | gnarface | lots of gnome stuff, some other related userspace things, power management, sensors, etc |
| 08:54.22 | *** join/#devuan kelsoo (~kelsoo@dragora/developer/kelsoo) |
| 08:55.19 | Vall | I'm glad to see that the systemd cancer hasn't metastasised into the kernel nor into libc6 yet |
| 08:56.05 | Vall | as it has contaminated a *lot* of stuff, I was afraid it had made its way into the kernel and libc too |
| 09:03.50 | fsmithred | it has to get past Linus to do that |
| 09:04.09 | fsmithred | and it won't unless it's good code |
| 09:05.25 | KatolaZ | fsmithred: this is exactly what scares me.... |
| 09:07.31 | Vall | fsmithred, KatolaZ: I don't think Linus gives half a shit anymore about a lot of things... |
| 09:08.11 | KatolaZ | Vall: he still decides what goes in the kernel and what does not |
| 09:08.36 | Vall | KatolaZ: sure, he decides. But does he care enough to decide what's right? |
| 09:08.52 | Vall | His cavalier attitude regarding systemd is the second serious disappointment I've had on him |
| 09:09.44 | Vall | (the first one was the discontinuation of the "even: stable, odd: development" kernel numbering/maintainance policy |
| 09:09.49 | KatolaZ | Vall: I have never liked Linus, and his attitudes towards many things |
| 09:10.13 | Vall | I used to like him and his attitudes until about 6 years ago |
| 09:11.02 | Vall | That was more or less when he started not giving half a shit to things anymore |
| 09:11.09 | Vall | 1 min, brb |
| 09:15.31 | *** join/#devuan esrever (~user@unaffiliated/esrever) |
| 09:20.58 | *** join/#devuan ferdy- (~ferdy@funtoo/contrib/ferdy-) |
| 09:25.43 | *** join/#devuan Besnik_b (~Besnik@athedsl-219862.home.otenet.gr) |
| 09:26.51 | *** join/#devuan gnarf_08 (~ck@gollum.pgxml.net) |
| 09:29.44 | Artemis3 | If it comes to that we replace the kernel too xD kFreebsd ftw (or would hurd ever be complete?) |
| 09:30.40 | djph | Artemis3: probably not :) |
| 09:35.30 | *** join/#devuan sag3 (~O@91.214.169.69) |
| 09:35.50 | *** join/#devuan rsx (~dummy@ppp-93-104-60-164.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 09:44.44 | Captain_Beezay | ty vall |
| 09:46.59 | *** join/#devuan reetp (~john@host81-136-189-171.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 09:48.19 | *** join/#devuan Madda (~Madda@hq.m3team.it) |
| 09:54.24 | *** join/#devuan Madda (~Madda@hq.m3team.it) |
| 09:58.54 | *** join/#devuan quite (quite@unaffiliated/quite) |
| 10:26.07 | *** join/#devuan rafalcpp (~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl) |
| 10:27.11 | *** join/#devuan bwn (~bwn@c-67-174-159-210.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 10:36.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | see !amprolla and !packagelist |
| 10:41.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | also !listvalues devuan*package |
| 10:42.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | also !listkeys #devuan pack |
| 10:48.51 | *** join/#devuan Vall (~Vall@2602:ffda:ccc:1::d2fe:5848) |
| 11:21.16 | *** join/#devuan dardevelin (~dardeveli@unaffiliated/dardevelin) |
| 11:28.46 | *** join/#devuan justinsm (~justinsm@82-69-63-196.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 12:00.28 | *** join/#devuan gnarf_ (~ck@gollum.pgxml.net) |
| 12:01.34 | *** join/#devuan nighty- (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) |
| 12:06.40 | *** join/#devuan Sharcho (~Sharcho@89.101.24.177) |
| 12:07.03 | Sharcho | Is there an up-to-date docker image? |
| 12:12.06 | *** part/#devuan Sharcho (~Sharcho@89.101.24.177) |
| 12:12.29 | gnarf_ | Hu? No ops here? |
| 12:13.13 | *** join/#devuan Nematocyst (~eric@174-28-166-177.albq.qwest.net) |
| 12:13.15 | parazyd | gnarf_: ? |
| 12:17.44 | gnarf_ | channel ops. not that important. ;-) |
| 12:19.53 | parazyd | there are ops, just not with +o atm |
| 12:23.58 | MinceR | is there an urgent need for ops? |
| 12:27.09 | gnarf_ | no... i withdraw my writing. |
| 12:27.18 | ryuujin | :) |
| 12:34.16 | *** join/#devuan Obi_Code_konobi (~Obi_Code_@c110-21-187-221.blktn5.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 12:37.41 | *** join/#devuan mobinmob (~mobinmob@2a02:582:7423:1e00:16da:e9ff:fe98:e08e) |
| 12:54.15 | *** join/#devuan catprints (~realperso@172.58.83.18) |
| 12:54.54 | *** join/#devuan ltem (~ltem@h081217057026.dyn.cm.kabsi.at) |
| 13:03.31 | DeFender | has devuan released a patch to deal with https://blog.qualys.com/securitylabs/2017/06/19/the-stack-clash ? |
| 13:05.51 | gnarface | last i heard, yes. but don't just take my word for it... |
| 13:07.59 | *** join/#devuan SpOOky_ (~SpOOky@188.25.223.204) |
| 13:18.13 | DeFender | gnarface, based on the combination of https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2017-1000366 and the fact that my upgrade just now said "Setting up libc-dev-bin (2.19-18+deb8u10)" your "yes" would seem to be correct. |
| 13:18.55 | DeFender | (All the other libc6 stuff in the upgrade also has the same version, just wasn't going to flood by pasting the whole list here, obviously.) |
| 13:21.40 | *** join/#devuan knidos (~knidos@88.253.183.131) |
| 13:27.36 | *** part/#devuan catprints (~realperso@172.58.83.18) |
| 13:30.42 | *** join/#devuan gnu_srs (~srs@178-78-231-178.customers.ownit.se) |
| 13:31.01 | *** join/#devuan jathan (~jathan@201.99.106.102) |
| 13:36.21 | jonadab | Nematocyst: Ah. I don't believe I've ever removed systemd. Some weird jazz about not installing it in the first place :-) |
| 13:44.15 | brabo | DeFender: seems 366/364 have been fixed in debians jessie security, 365 which is a related vuln not yet (and the unrelated ones found like 367 (fixed) and 378 (not fixed)) |
| 13:45.03 | brabo | so i am not sure in how much 365 is still exploitable without 364/366 |
| 13:47.52 | *** join/#devuan TemporalBeing (~Ben_Meyer@72.32.180.181) |
| 13:50.16 | DeFender | brabo, thanks. |
| 13:50.51 | brabo | DeFender: np, i just checked out the related CVEs on the debian security tracker |
| 13:51.56 | brabo | pretty fucked one though |
| 13:52.27 | brabo | the idea that perhaps for years some actors have been using this.. brrrr |
| 13:59.29 | *** join/#devuan mailjesus (~antisyste@198.46.129.165) |
| 14:01.28 | *** join/#devuan Madda (~Madda@hq.m3team.it) |
| 14:05.30 | *** join/#devuan mailjesus (~antisyste@198.46.129.165) |
| 14:06.59 | *** join/#devuan mailjesus (~antisyste@unaffiliated/mailjesus) |
| 14:09.09 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.231.114.120) |
| 14:11.36 | *** part/#devuan _mailjesus (~antisyste@unaffiliated/mailjesus) |
| 14:22.02 | *** join/#devuan godbed (~Wowbagger@HSI-KBW-078-042-209-105.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 14:29.13 | *** join/#devuan catprints (~realperso@172.58.83.4) |
| 14:37.07 | DeFender | brabo, seems unlikely. |
| 14:37.22 | DeFender | brabo, most of this stuff is discovered by researchers before attackers. |
| 14:37.48 | brabo | DeFender: i would not dare make that assumption, quite the contrary |
| 14:38.12 | brabo | i assume that at the point where after 7 years a researcher finds such vuln it has actively been exploited by certain actors for years |
| 14:38.13 | DeFender | brabo, but yeah, a vulnerability in such a fundamental and basic piece of software management code is quite inexcusable. |
| 14:38.25 | *** join/#devuan Everche (~zaiwr4@221.217.218.91) |
| 14:38.34 | brabo | not inexcusable, we are all human and miss things |
| 14:38.45 | DeFender | brabo, perhaps, although once they find these vulnerabilities, they can generally then detect if anything has been using it, now that they know what to look for. |
| 14:38.47 | *** join/#devuan furrywolf (~randyg@172.56.38.40) |
| 14:38.58 | brabo | my assumption is just that after so much time there are actors in possession of working exploits and actively using them |
| 14:39.06 | brabo | but who's going to know if they are skilled? |
| 14:39.52 | brabo | i guess it really really depends on luck in how far one could verify since when an exploit has been used |
| 14:40.37 | brabo | i also guess a skilled attacker would exploit and be good enough to hide his tracks that it may very well be impossible to determine what vector was used |
| 14:41.00 | brabo | so, my final guess is that it depends on what type of actor is using it |
| 14:44.52 | DeFender | also true. |
| 14:45.47 | DeFender | though, since in this case it's only local, it means there'd have to be some kind of program which existed locally that would contain telltale signs of code attempting to cause a stack collision. |
| 14:45.53 | brabo | oh wow |
| 14:46.06 | brabo | you make an extremely dangerous assumption there |
| 14:46.17 | *** join/#devuan thaller (thaller@nat/redhat/x-tmvqbcxzjkrtnpnt) |
| 14:46.21 | brabo | let me quote qualys on that: "The one remote application that we did investigate (the Exim mail server) turned out to be unexploitable by sheer luck." |
| 14:46.24 | brabo | sheer luck |
| 14:46.26 | DeFender | the local-only exploits tend to be harder to use effectively and silently, while the remote exploits tend to be less dangerous in nature. |
| 14:46.34 | DeFender | these are all generalizations, of course. |
| 14:46.46 | DeFender | brabo, yes, I'm aware. |
| 14:46.55 | brabo | i guess any service with some on itself insignificant vuln or memory mishandling could be used too |
| 14:47.05 | DeFender | brabo, nothing I'm saying is a definite. These are merely generalizations and probabilities. |
| 14:47.06 | brabo | so don't say local-only |
| 14:47.17 | brabo | because it highly likely isn't |
| 14:47.38 | DeFender | that's a good point. |
| 14:47.47 | brabo | i thought so at least haha ;) |
| 14:48.02 | DeFender | though it would probably require some other vulnerability in an application as well |
| 14:48.06 | brabo | i've heard X people state this one is local-only today |
| 14:48.16 | brabo | no i did not upgrade box Y cause it is local only |
| 14:48.20 | brabo | stuff like that |
| 14:48.42 | DeFender | so, let's say there's a remote-execution overflow vuln in some application, then that could be used to overwrite and expand the stack looking for a collision... much harder to do effectively though. |
| 14:48.48 | DeFender | still, as you say, possible. |
| 14:48.51 | brabo | yes, but it could very well be something that in itself is insignificant, and perhaps even known and just not fixed due to no big priority |
| 14:48.53 | *** join/#devuan Latr_work (~Latrwork@207.218.29.129) |
| 14:49.15 | DeFender | well, "no i did not upgrade box Y cause it is local only" is an idiotic statement |
| 14:49.22 | brabo | the fact qualys says exim was not exploitable by sheer luck seems to indicate to me they are confident there are plenty of others that would be exploitable |
| 14:49.27 | DeFender | I upgraded the moment I heard about it. |
| 14:50.21 | brabo | that's all we can do, upgrade asap |
| 14:50.45 | DeFender | brabo, well, yes, that's always a factor. "Minor" vulnerabilities not fixed because "eh, what can you really do with that anyway?" that then give just the crack someone needs when combined with another "minor" vulnerability. |
| 14:51.22 | brabo | yes indeed |
| 14:51.32 | DeFender | You've got to laugh at a world where our approach to dealing with bugs is not to fix them immediately, but to builg a database to store the bugs because we have so many. |
| 14:51.34 | brabo | sometimes it is good to have vulns |
| 14:51.53 | brabo | i know of a mouse manufacturer that had its ass saved due to memory mismanagement |
| 14:51.58 | brabo | :p |
| 14:53.17 | DeFender | My day job has a zero-bug policy. We don't have a bug tracker. If a real bug that isn't just user error is reported, the promary dev in charge of the piece of code where the bug occurs drops whatever else they're doing to fix it. Major, minor, doesn't matter, it gets fixed immediately so the bugs don't pile up and combine in horrible ways. |
| 14:53.30 | DeFender | brabo, what's this story with the mouse manufacturer? |
| 14:54.20 | brabo | DeFender: they produced a new gaming mouse and shipped it to then realise they fucked up big time, they thought they had some update cap coded in, but that part was commented out |
| 14:54.46 | DeFender | But they also had some kind of overwrite vuln that allowed them to patch it? |
| 14:54.56 | brabo | a friend was hired to correct the situation and developed an exploit to add update caps to the firmware due to finding some pointers he could control |
| 14:55.06 | DeFender | nice. |
| 14:55.12 | brabo | so by the time the mice arrived at clients, there was a tool to "update" their firmwares |
| 14:55.35 | brabo | yeah, this guy is good |
| 14:55.41 | brabo | took him 2 or 3 days only |
| 14:56.00 | DeFender | though in that kind of case, they should really build in a proper update vector rather than lucking out that their incompetence underflowed into success. |
| 14:57.10 | brabo | no shit :) |
| 14:58.33 | DeFender | my point is, your statement that "sometimes it is good to have vulns" is really only true if you're already being a moron. |
| 14:58.56 | brabo | i don't think so |
| 14:58.59 | brabo | we all fuck up |
| 14:59.16 | brabo | sometimes we fuck up in a way that later saves us from another fuckup |
| 14:59.23 | *** join/#devuan Latr_work_ (~Latrwork@207.218.29.129) |
| 14:59.30 | DeFender | Yeah well, as a friend of mine says, "humans are just the WORST computer programmers." |
| 14:59.47 | brabo | nicely put :) |
| 15:02.10 | MinceR | :) |
| 15:12.55 | *** join/#devuan guru (~guru@c-66-31-121-178.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 15:14.58 | *** join/#devuan tarbz2 (~Thunderbi@186.23.75.201) |
| 15:22.07 | *** join/#devuan konsolebox_ (~konsolebo@112.198.75.235) |
| 15:25.30 | *** join/#devuan Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 15:27.58 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-84-220-219-50.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 15:28.12 | Nematocyst | jonadab, i didn't know any better. been using linux for decades, but hadn't really investigated that issue until a few months ago. so you can argue maybe i should have.. but any event, i made the right choice when I did find out |
| 15:34.07 | *** join/#devuan mns` (c910ed0a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.201.16.237.10) |
| 15:45.35 | *** join/#devuan gnarface (~gnarface@108-227-52-42.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 15:46.50 | *** join/#devuan Vizva (~Vizva@dslb-178-004-108-183.178.004.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 15:49.36 | *** join/#devuan Guest23790 (~default@47.196.203.16) |
| 15:52.08 | Guest23790 | Just installed Devuan 1.0 - why does it include a bunch of systemd stuff? |
| 15:53.04 | *** join/#devuan OmegaPhil (~kvirc@62.212.72.243) |
| 15:53.04 | *** join/#devuan OmegaPhil (~kvirc@fsf/member/OmegaPhil) |
| 15:55.10 | KatolaZ | Guest23790: what is this bunch of systemd stuff? |
| 15:59.07 | fsmithred | probably udev's /lib/systemd |
| 16:00.03 | calamari | yeah I saw that too.. systemd-udevd in the kernel log |
| 16:00.31 | calamari | work in progress? |
| 16:01.05 | fsmithred | yeah, it's called eudev |
| 16:01.20 | fsmithred | and I'm not sure that it removes /lib/systemd |
| 16:01.28 | fsmithred | didn't think to look at that |
| 16:02.42 | *** join/#devuan Latr_work (~Latrwork@207.218.29.129) |
| 16:02.57 | *** join/#devuan menip (~menip@c-73-83-133-80.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 16:05.35 | calamari | good luck! |
| 16:06.09 | Guest23790 | Try: sudo find / -name *systemd* |
| 16:06.42 | Guest23790 | Got about 30 files altogether. |
| 16:06.53 | KatolaZ | Guest23790: which files? |
| 16:06.58 | gnarface | there is also libsystemd probably |
| 16:07.08 | KatolaZ | those might be unit files provided by single packages |
| 16:07.25 | KatolaZ | if you don't have systemd installed (and you shouldn't) those files are innocuous |
| 16:07.55 | KatolaZ | calamari: you see systemd-udevd because jessie uses the udev "adopted" by systemd |
| 16:07.56 | Guest23790 | Tried to paste the output here, doesn't work. |
| 16:08.03 | KatolaZ | ascii will have eudev |
| 16:08.10 | KatolaZ | it's already in the experimental repo |
| 16:08.23 | KatolaZ | please guys, don't freak out for nothing... |
| 16:08.30 | calamari | adopted, that's a nice way of putting it :) |
| 16:08.40 | gnarface | Guest23790: paste.debian.net ? |
| 16:08.53 | *** join/#devuan _william_ (~william@LFbn-1-530-109.w86-245.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 16:08.53 | KatolaZ | calamari: that's why I put it in quotes :P |
| 16:08.55 | calamari | no way, I love what you guys are doing, great work |
| 16:09.08 | KatolaZ | eudev is working great already |
| 16:09.18 | KatolaZ | I have been using it on my work laptop for about a month now |
| 16:09.22 | KatolaZ | not a single problem |
| 16:10.04 | gnarface | KatolaZ: you don't perchance have a steam controller, do you? |
| 16:10.26 | KatolaZ | gnarface: don't even know what a steam controller is :P |
| 16:10.31 | gnarface | bummer |
| 16:10.42 | KatolaZ | (we evolved since the times of steam engines, right? :)) |
| 16:10.49 | Guest23790 | gnarface - sorry, I don't know how to do that. But justg do sudo find / -name *systemd* and see for yourself. |
| 16:11.00 | KatolaZ | Guest23790: read above ^^^^ |
| 16:11.25 | gnarface | Guest23790: yea, there's a bunch of stuff with the word "systemd" in it's name still. don't worry about it. |
| 16:11.48 | KatolaZ | Guest23790: most of those "worrying" files are, again, unit files provided by different packages |
| 16:12.14 | KatolaZ | a unit file is what a daemon/service should provide in order for it to be managed by systemd |
| 16:12.24 | KatolaZ | those are the "equivalent" of init files |
| 16:12.25 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.231.114.120) |
| 16:12.29 | KatolaZ | more or less |
| 16:13.01 | KatolaZ | there is absolutely no reason to recompile a package just to strip off a unit file from it, seriously... |
| 16:13.42 | calamari | Guest23790: if you'd like to know which package a file came from, you can do dpkg -S FILENAME_PATH, then dpkg -s PKGNAME |
| 16:13.53 | Guest23790 | So, how do I see if my system is using sysv or using systemd as the init? |
| 16:14.20 | KatolaZ | Guest23790: dpkg -l | grep -i systemd |
| 16:14.27 | KatolaZ | you should see only libsystemd0 |
| 16:15.11 | KatolaZ | and, btw, if you installed devuan or upgraded to devuan, and you are using exclusively Devuan repos, tou *cannot* physically have systemd installed |
| 16:15.23 | KatolaZ | unless you have manually got the package and its deps from another source |
| 16:15.29 | KatolaZ | and manually installed them with dpkg -i |
| 16:15.41 | gnarface | but what about ninjas? |
| 16:15.57 | gnarface | sorry |
| 16:15.57 | KatolaZ | gnarface: ninjas are very powerful, and danberous |
| 16:15.59 | gnarface | isn't helping |
| 16:16.05 | KatolaZ | ~dangerous |
| 16:16.28 | KatolaZ | :p |
| 16:16.33 | Guest23790 | Yeah, just see "libsystemd0:amd64". |
| 16:17.06 | KatolaZ | great |
| 16:17.15 | gnarface | Guest23790: you would also see systemd in the output of "ps aux" - note that "systemd-udevd" is actually udev, not systemd |
| 16:17.48 | Guest23790 | Just installed from the Devuan 1.0 live iso. |
| 16:17.55 | KatolaZ | Guest23790: libsystemd0 exists because some packages "can" use systemd, if it is present, and in order to do so they need to link libsystemd |
| 16:18.19 | KatolaZ | Guest23790: do you think we were kidding when we said that devuan ships without systemd? :) |
| 16:18.55 | *** join/#devuan thaller (thaller@nat/redhat/x-hcjlhgvzwesgpltg) |
| 16:19.28 | Guest23790 | No. But systemd is like cancer. It spreads everywhere and takes over everything. |
| 16:20.31 | KatolaZ | o_O |
| 16:20.35 | KatolaZ | good to know! |
| 16:20.39 | gnarface | Guest23790: you're fine, it's just that this isn't even the first time this question has been asked *this morning* so people are getting sarcastic |
| 16:21.13 | Guest23790 | No problem. Thanks for the info, guys. |
| 16:21.35 | KatolaZ | no worries Guest23790 |
| 16:21.38 | KatolaZ | you are most welcome |
| 16:21.53 | KatolaZ | please report any problem you might have with your new devuan jessie |
| 16:22.22 | Guest23790 | Okay. |
| 16:27.08 | jonadab | Nematocyst: Wasn't criticizing, just explaining why I didn't understand at first. |
| 16:28.02 | jonadab | The main reason I never installed systemd is, I tend to be so conservative about upgrades, I run oldstable more than half the time, and sometimes an older release than that. |
| 16:28.25 | jonadab | So by the time I do get around to upgrading, I have some idea what I'm getting into, because people have, you know, talked about stuff. |
| 16:35.58 | *** join/#devuan Latr_work_ (~Latrwork@207.218.29.129) |
| 16:35.58 | Latr_work_ | jonadab: is this on a production environment ? |
| 16:36.01 | Latr_work_ | because otherwise wouldn't make much sense |
| 16:36.57 | Latr_work_ | and btw old of the old might not be getting security updates at some point, which makes it even worst |
| 16:40.56 | jonadab | I try not to let the things that connect directly to the internet get older than oldstable. |
| 16:41.12 | jonadab | But I still have a desktop that runs squeeze. |
| 16:41.52 | *** join/#devuan pekman (~pekman@unaffiliated/pekman) |
| 16:42.05 | jonadab | (It's behind an external firewall, of course.) |
| 16:42.36 | *** join/#devuan bazquxer (~bazquxer@gateway/tor-sasl/bazquxer) |
| 16:48.39 | *** join/#devuan Akuli (~Akuli@mobile-access-bceee0-69.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 16:57.34 | *** join/#devuan jimjamjim (~qddqqdqd@197.156.77.240) |
| 16:58.50 | *** join/#devuan RedAcor (~RedAcor@gateway/tor-sasl/redacor) |
| 16:59.58 | *** join/#devuan cioran89 (~cioran89@p5DDF1F0F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:02.00 | Nematocyst | i ran my home server on squeeze as long as possible. it was/is a dockstar (armv5te kirkwood 1.2ghz) with 256MB NAND. squeeze, I could run entirely on NAND which worked a lot better than the alternatives I use now to run jessie |
| 17:02.57 | *** join/#devuan peetaur (~peter@p200300E10BC23100922B34FFFE307A16.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:03.54 | Nematocyst | should retire it and move to something more modern, but dangit, that dockstar has been rock solid despite the memory/NAND size constraints |
| 17:08.58 | Nematocyst | i say 'a lot better', really that isn't so clear. every time i login, it's got 0.0 load averages... even though it does a crapton of stuff |
| 17:17.11 | *** join/#devuan tallship (~tallship@h-69-3-114-115.lsan.ca.dynamic.globalcapacity.com) |
| 17:34.49 | *** join/#devuan peetaur (~peter@p57AAAEA0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:40.21 | *** join/#devuan minnesotags (~herbgarci@c-73-94-158-194.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 17:45.54 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-84-220-219-50.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 17:57.24 | minnesotags | Hey. I'm wondering what Devuan email client people are using that can access a Microsoft Exchange server account. |
| 17:59.59 | calamari | minnesotags: on Ubuntu I use thunderbird, used to use evolution. are they different on Devuan? |
| 18:01.32 | *** part/#devuan mns` (c910ed0a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.201.16.237.10) |
| 18:12.08 | *** join/#devuan Katnija (~KittenGNU@unaffiliated/kittengnu) |
| 18:16.17 | *** join/#devuan DPA (~Daniel@194.230.159.135) |
| 18:20.10 | sixwheeledbeast^ | Thunderbird needs a paid addon for Exchange IIRC |
| 18:22.28 | Akuli | hi sixwheeledbeast^, i didn't realize that you're here too :D |
| 18:22.40 | sixwheeledbeast^ | :) |
| 18:22.51 | sixwheeledbeast^ | I am everywhere... |
| 18:26.53 | *** join/#devuan phogg (~phogg@pdpc/supporter/student/phogg) |
| 18:30.23 | gnarface | exchange can't just talk IMAP or POP? |
| 18:34.28 | MinceR | afaik no |
| 18:34.44 | MinceR | at least one of my clients found a way to set at least one server up so that it would only talk its own cancerous protocol |
| 18:35.41 | *** join/#devuan anon2 (83d4fa69@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.212.250.105) |
| 18:36.27 | *** join/#devuan Guest35458 (~afong@108.161.117.181) |
| 18:37.03 | *** join/#devuan peetaur (~peter@p57AAAEA0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:39.29 | *** join/#devuan nailyk (~nailyk@unaffiliated/nailyk) |
| 18:40.35 | *** join/#devuan opencw (~opencw@2a02:908:b42:d120:c48f:f131:127b:c269) |
| 18:40.56 | *** join/#devuan peetaur3 (~peter@p200300E10BC23100922B34FFFE307A16.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:42.40 | *** join/#devuan nailyk (~nailyk@unaffiliated/nailyk) |
| 18:49.10 | *** join/#devuan nailyk (~nailyk@unaffiliated/nailyk) |
| 18:52.00 | Lydia_K | sixwheeledbeast^: davmail |
| 18:52.15 | Lydia_K | sixwheeledbeast^: http://davmail.sourceforge.net/ |
| 18:53.13 | Lydia_K | minnesotags: http://davmail.sourceforge.net/ |
| 18:54.02 | sixwheeledbeast^ | useful to know |
| 18:54.28 | Lydia_K | <3 davmail |
| 19:01.03 | *** join/#devuan Drugo (~Drugo@62-11-1-95.dialup.tiscali.it) |
| 19:11.29 | *** join/#devuan Chanku (~Chanku@2601:704:2:a700:21b:77ff:fea3:4a99) |
| 19:29.07 | *** join/#devuan zjason (~user@59-115-106-164.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) |
| 19:30.14 | *** join/#devuan Latr_work (~Latrwork@207.218.29.129) |
| 19:32.09 | *** join/#devuan Latr_work__ (~Latrwork@207.218.29.129) |
| 19:39.05 | *** join/#devuan FreeBeast (~Vizva@dslb-178-004-108-183.178.004.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 19:43.41 | *** join/#devuan kelsoo (~kelsoo@dragora/developer/kelsoo) |
| 19:55.40 | *** join/#devuan mwarning (d9eee050@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.238.224.80) |
| 19:56.47 | mwarning | fsmithred: hi, I needed to reinstall devuan on my dell xps 13 and got the same problem as before (grub bootloader does not install..). |
| 19:57.09 | mwarning | You said I should try the livecd when I happend to reinstall devuan. |
| 19:57.19 | mwarning | But I do not remember the details anymore. |
| 19:57.36 | mwarning | the chat log from 1 May seem the imcomplete |
| 19:59.58 | mwarning | it was about testing the uefi installer |
| 20:00.29 | mwarning | but how to start it and what is the root password of the devuan live cd? :-) |
| 20:01.14 | KatolaZ | toor |
| 20:01.38 | mwarning | ok, thanks |
| 20:15.20 | mwarning | what kernel version does devuan unstable use? |
| 20:15.32 | mwarning | (or where can I look it up?) |
| 20:15.51 | KatolaZ | mwarning: you can't install devuan unstable |
| 20:16.00 | KatolaZ | I mean , directly |
| 20:16.03 | fsmithred | I wouldn't touch unstable with a 10-foot pole this week. |
| 20:16.04 | mwarning | hm, ok |
| 20:16.25 | mwarning | I assume because of the debian release |
| 20:16.27 | fsmithred | no |
| 20:16.36 | fsmithred | because of the devuan release three weeks ago |
| 20:16.44 | fsmithred | after that, we all took a two-week vacation |
| 20:16.50 | fsmithred | so we've had a week to work on testing |
| 20:16.53 | fsmithred | it's not ready yet |
| 20:17.12 | mwarning | xD |
| 20:17.41 | fsmithred | sorry, I don't remmeber the conversation we had, but your name does look familiar |
| 20:18.01 | Leander | if you look at your bios boot menu, you should see your installation medium twice, and one with UEFI or something in front |
| 20:18.01 | mwarning | sure, it was some time ago |
| 20:18.04 | mwarning | https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan/search/?q=mwarning |
| 20:19.07 | fsmithred | ah. nvme disk. |
| 20:19.16 | fsmithred | there's support for that in the live installer |
| 20:20.02 | mwarning | fsmithred: I would like to try that now |
| 20:20.23 | fsmithred | get the desktop-live-uefi iso at files.devuan.org |
| 20:20.29 | mwarning | ok |
| 20:20.45 | fsmithred | you can burn it to DVD or use dd or cat to put it on usb |
| 20:20.54 | *** join/#devuan guru_ (~guru@c-66-31-121-178.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 20:21.35 | mwarning | it's downloading |
| 20:22.18 | mwarning | might take a few minutes |
| 20:22.33 | fsmithred | ok |
| 20:22.42 | mwarning | fsmithred: there is an installer icon on the desktop? |
| 20:24.32 | *** join/#devuan xes_ (~xes@unaffiliated/xes) |
| 20:25.28 | mwarning | .. time to dd |
| 20:26.32 | fsmithred | yes, icon on desktop and item in system menu that says "install devuan" |
| 20:26.39 | mwarning | ok! |
| 20:27.02 | mwarning | I have disabled secure boot. Do I need to enable it? |
| 20:27.19 | fsmithred | no |
| 20:27.28 | mwarning | k |
| 20:28.25 | mwarning | desktop started, starting installer now |
| 20:28.52 | fsmithred | is there anything installed on this computer that you're keeping? |
| 20:29.26 | fsmithred | and is there already an efi partition |
| 20:29.54 | mwarning | there is an efi partition from the previous devuan install attempt |
| 20:30.03 | *** join/#devuan atrapado_ (~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado) |
| 20:30.04 | mwarning | I have already wiped the disk |
| 20:30.07 | fsmithred | ok |
| 20:30.21 | mwarning | (no need to keep any data) |
| 20:30.23 | fsmithred | you know how to make the efi partition? |
| 20:30.30 | mwarning | no |
| 20:30.52 | fsmithred | 200mb fat32 esp,boot flags |
| 20:31.04 | mwarning | I see a lot of Installtion options. |
| 20:31.06 | fsmithred | should be first partition of first hard disk |
| 20:31.20 | fsmithred | you are not required to change any options |
| 20:31.35 | fsmithred | but you can make sep /home and or /boot |
| 20:31.46 | fsmithred | you might want encryption on laptop |
| 20:31.53 | mwarning | not now |
| 20:31.56 | fsmithred | ok |
| 20:32.02 | fsmithred | good. faster. |
| 20:32.12 | mwarning | I can do that once I have a prodedure I know that works |
| 20:32.32 | mwarning | can I make the isntaller to setup the uefi part for me? |
| 20:32.46 | fsmithred | installer does not do any automatic partitioning |
| 20:32.55 | mwarning | ok |
| 20:32.57 | *** join/#devuan opencw (~opencw@2a02:908:b42:d120:c48f:f131:127b:c269) |
| 20:33.03 | fsmithred | but it will install the bootloader for you |
| 20:33.07 | fsmithred | you'll get asked |
| 20:33.09 | mwarning | the partitons should be allready |
| 20:33.14 | mwarning | allright |
| 20:33.55 | fsmithred | oh shit, should have told you to run it in debug mode. More output in the log that way. But continue anyway. |
| 20:34.13 | mwarning | no problem, I will restart :) |
| 20:34.22 | fsmithred | ok |
| 20:34.29 | mwarning | I am happy to provide feedback |
| 20:34.47 | fsmithred | thanks |
| 20:35.07 | fsmithred | brb |
| 20:35.31 | mwarning | I guess I have to type thanks; I get nice help here :) |
| 20:36.37 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-53-200.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 20:37.45 | mwarning | fsmithred: how do I run the installer in dbug mode? |
| 20:38.15 | fsmithred | as root in terminal: refractainstaller-uefi |
| 20:39.32 | mwarning | hm, gparted does not list my hard disk |
| 20:41.28 | mwarning | "lsmod | grep nv" gives me |
| 20:41.40 | mwarning | nvme 62090 0 |
| 20:41.50 | mwarning | not sure if that is good |
| 20:42.16 | fsmithred | neither am I |
| 20:42.31 | fsmithred | the one case I know, gparted could see the disk |
| 20:42.44 | mwarning | ah, /etc/nvme0n1p[1-3] exists |
| 20:42.56 | fsmithred | samsung 950 pro |
| 20:43.12 | fsmithred | you have three partitions on the disk? |
| 20:43.19 | mwarning | yes |
| 20:43.29 | mwarning | must be uefi, root and swap |
| 20:43.32 | fsmithred | fdisk -l |
| 20:44.00 | mwarning | ok, confirmed |
| 20:44.04 | fsmithred | should say EFI System on one of them |
| 20:44.08 | fsmithred | cool |
| 20:44.10 | mwarning | the first one is labeled EFI System |
| 20:44.14 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 20:44.25 | fsmithred | you can use those partitions. just skip gparted. |
| 20:44.38 | mwarning | those are the partitons from the previous devuan install attempt |
| 20:44.43 | mwarning | k |
| 20:44.48 | fsmithred | oh |
| 20:45.08 | fsmithred | the efi partition will not be reformatted, but that should be ok |
| 20:45.17 | mwarning | ok |
| 20:45.42 | *** join/#devuan thaller (~thaller@ip-78-45-133-27.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 20:45.47 | fsmithred | the others will be formatted ext-(your choice) |
| 20:45.52 | mwarning | I was able to select the correct root partiton after gparted was closed |
| 20:46.58 | fsmithred | efi partition should be detected automatically and should not be in the list of choices for root or home |
| 20:47.07 | fsmithred | or boot (if you had one) |
| 20:47.58 | mwarning | not sure what the compose key ist, I leave it at the default |
| 20:48.09 | fsmithred | yeah, default is fine |
| 20:48.14 | fsmithred | I don't know what it is, either |
| 20:48.38 | mwarning | fsmithred: is the package survey one time? Or will it transmit data all over the systems livetime? |
| 20:48.41 | fsmithred | oh yeah, do us a favor - after you boot into new install, delete /etc/popularity-contest.conf |
| 20:48.50 | mwarning | k :P |
| 20:49.33 | mwarning | ok, files get copied now. |
| 20:49.36 | fsmithred | and then re-run dpkg-reconfigure popularity-contest if you want to participate (in the installed system) |
| 20:50.04 | mwarning | k |
| 20:50.20 | fsmithred | that'll be fixed in next version |
| 20:50.40 | *** join/#devuan DeFender1031 (~DeFender1@89-138-182-62.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 20:51.45 | mwarning | fsmithred: should I run "Install bootloader" now? |
| 20:51.59 | mwarning | or do something manual? |
| 20:52.52 | mwarning | will try "Install bootloader".. |
| 20:53.15 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 20:53.42 | mwarning | seems to have worked |
| 20:53.58 | mwarning | what does "Use sudo as default for new user?" mean |
| 20:54.08 | mwarning | default for what? |
| 20:54.13 | fsmithred | ubuntu-style |
| 20:54.29 | mwarning | hm, I do not know what that is :) |
| 20:54.39 | fsmithred | um, actually, I'd have to check. I forget if it disables root account or not. |
| 20:54.57 | mwarning | ah,, ok |
| 20:54.58 | fsmithred | it means all commands allowed to user with sudo |
| 20:55.19 | fsmithred | I'm guessing you don't want that |
| 20:55.20 | mwarning | I will leave the default |
| 20:55.24 | mwarning | k |
| 20:55.40 | fsmithred | sudo for shutdown is nice, especially if you always have a terminal open |
| 20:56.15 | mwarning | k |
| 20:56.20 | mwarning | rebooting now |
| 20:56.27 | fsmithred | cool |
| 20:56.47 | mwarning | hm, no bootable device found |
| 20:56.54 | fsmithred | damn |
| 20:57.18 | mwarning | anything I could do different? |
| 20:57.32 | fsmithred | did you add this hard disk or did it come with laptop? |
| 20:57.48 | mwarning | it came with the laptop |
| 20:58.19 | fsmithred | boot live again so we can look at the efi partition |
| 20:58.23 | mwarning | (I guess dell won't let the user replace it) |
| 20:58.32 | mwarning | the hard disk ^ |
| 20:58.36 | mwarning | k |
| 20:58.49 | fsmithred | great. Throw away the laptop when the drive fails. |
| 20:58.51 | *** join/#devuan rrq (~ralph@60-242-139-200.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 20:59.01 | fsmithred | you can just buy a new one. It'll be better. |
| 20:59.02 | mwarning | yeah.. :< |
| 20:59.21 | fsmithred | send me some money and I'll send you a 10-year-old dell that still works the way you want it to. |
| 20:59.37 | fsmithred | actually, I won't. I want to keep it. |
| 20:59.44 | mwarning | xD |
| 20:59.53 | mwarning | I have a nice thinkpad spare |
| 21:00.07 | mwarning | but it is way too slow.. |
| 21:01.30 | mwarning | fsmithred: ok, live system is up again |
| 21:01.41 | mwarning | what can I do? |
| 21:02.29 | fsmithred | mount efi partition |
| 21:02.41 | *** join/#devuan greenjeans (~greenjean@45.53.139.135) |
| 21:02.43 | fsmithred | at /mnt is fine |
| 21:03.39 | mwarning | hm, I think I turned of the minimal installer before all packets were installed to the rootfs - maybe there is some uefi/boot stuff that would have come at the very end? Maybe that culd be a probem. |
| 21:04.02 | *** join/#devuan agl (~Die_Kirsc@ipb21bb0b8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 21:04.31 | fsmithred | how did you stop it? |
| 21:04.33 | mwarning | ok, te uefi partiton contains a folder called EFI |
| 21:04.40 | fsmithred | anything in EFI? |
| 21:04.43 | fsmithred | devuan? |
| 21:04.46 | mwarning | inside are folder called Dell and devuan |
| 21:04.53 | fsmithred | yikes |
| 21:04.58 | fsmithred | what's Dell? |
| 21:05.03 | mwarning | (this must sound like an dungeon crawler xD) |
| 21:05.36 | MinceR | dell is a fraudulent pc oem |
| 21:05.47 | fsmithred | god, I hope the people at dell haven't been talking to the people at hp. |
| 21:05.49 | MinceR | they make shitty laptops and provide practically zero warranty service |
| 21:06.03 | mwarning | there is only /mnt/EFI/Dell/logs/diags_current.xml (not other files) |
| 21:06.11 | MinceR | they couldn't figure out how to build hinges for decades, possibly not even by now |
| 21:06.31 | fsmithred | what's in the devuan folder? |
| 21:06.50 | mwarning | the other file is /mnt/EFI/devuan/grubx64.efi |
| 21:06.59 | mwarning | that is all there is.. |
| 21:07.05 | fsmithred | that is correct |
| 21:07.09 | mwarning | k :) |
| 21:07.25 | fsmithred | the uefi needs to see that partition at boot |
| 21:07.31 | mwarning | k |
| 21:07.34 | fsmithred | don't reboot yet |
| 21:07.39 | fsmithred | I'm still thinking |
| 21:07.39 | mwarning | k |
| 21:08.00 | fsmithred | but when you do, hit the key that gives you the boot device menu. F12 I think. |
| 21:08.05 | mwarning | do I need to enable/setup uefi in the bios setup? |
| 21:08.11 | mwarning | ah :) |
| 21:08.18 | fsmithred | um, yeah |
| 21:08.26 | fsmithred | is it set to legacy now? |
| 21:08.46 | mwarning | not sure, I have would have to reboot |
| 21:08.52 | fsmithred | no you don't |
| 21:09.13 | *** join/#devuan gotgnu (~gotgnu@pdpc/supporter/active/gotgnu) |
| 21:09.15 | mwarning | k, do you want me to try something else now? |
| 21:09.18 | fsmithred | ls /sys/firmware/efi |
| 21:09.28 | mwarning | while the live system is running? |
| 21:09.31 | mwarning | k |
| 21:09.31 | fsmithred | yes |
| 21:09.50 | fsmithred | or tell me what color the boot screen was |
| 21:10.08 | mwarning | I do not remember |
| 21:10.14 | fsmithred | black or purple |
| 21:10.32 | fsmithred | anyway, does that file exist? |
| 21:10.34 | mwarning | sorry, no idea |
| 21:10.37 | mwarning | yes |
| 21:10.44 | fsmithred | then it was uefi boot |
| 21:10.50 | fsmithred | and the answer is black |
| 21:11.02 | mwarning | ls /sys/firmware/efi gives me a bunch of info files |
| 21:11.09 | mwarning | ok, black then :> |
| 21:11.15 | fsmithred | yeah, whatever. It's there. |
| 21:11.21 | fsmithred | don't mess with that. |
| 21:11.26 | mwarning | k |
| 21:11.51 | mwarning | ok, I will reboot and check the bios unless you have another idea.. |
| 21:11.55 | fsmithred | have you previously installed a linux on this machine and had it work? |
| 21:12.00 | mwarning | yes |
| 21:12.09 | mwarning | I had arch and then devuan running |
| 21:12.18 | fsmithred | oh |
| 21:12.30 | fsmithred | what changed after the successful devuan install? |
| 21:12.57 | mwarning | then windows 10 to run some firmware tool that won't work on linux.. |
| 21:13.31 | fsmithred | that sounds ominous |
| 21:13.36 | mwarning | and I also messed up devuan before because I tried unstable the day before yesterday xD |
| 21:13.44 | fsmithred | lol |
| 21:13.56 | mwarning | yeah.. |
| 21:13.58 | fsmithred | you had devuan working after the ms crap? |
| 21:14.17 | mwarning | after I installed windows 10 today? no |
| 21:14.42 | fsmithred | ok, may as well reboot |
| 21:14.47 | mwarning | ok |
| 21:14.48 | *** join/#devuan kelsoo (~kelsoo@dragora/developer/kelsoo) |
| 21:15.32 | mwarning | windows 10 => arch 0> devuan stable => devuan unstable => windows 10 (for firmware update) => devuan installation... |
| 21:16.52 | mwarning | secure boot is currently disabled |
| 21:18.33 | fsmithred | F12? |
| 21:18.44 | mwarning | I added the grubx64.efi, now it boots.. |
| 21:18.50 | *** join/#devuan kelsoo (~kelsoo@dragora/developer/kelsoo) |
| 21:18.53 | fsmithred | added it where? |
| 21:19.10 | mwarning | in the bios menu |
| 21:19.19 | fsmithred | oh, ok |
| 21:19.41 | mwarning | uefi setup or something |
| 21:19.41 | fsmithred | cool |
| 21:19.41 | mwarning | hm, now I have xfce |
| 21:19.50 | mwarning | How do I switch to i3? |
| 21:19.50 | fsmithred | yeah, that's what you should have |
| 21:20.04 | fsmithred | did you already install it in live? |
| 21:20.20 | mwarning | in the live installer? |
| 21:20.34 | fsmithred | in the live system while it was running |
| 21:20.39 | mwarning | no |
| 21:20.45 | fsmithred | well then, it's not installed |
| 21:20.47 | fsmithred | apt-get update |
| 21:20.53 | mwarning | I would have used chroot for that.. |
| 21:20.56 | mwarning | ok |
| 21:21.00 | fsmithred | apt-get update |
| 21:22.10 | mwarning | wifi is not working |
| 21:22.21 | fsmithred | open wicd |
| 21:22.34 | fsmithred | click on triangle in upper right for preferences |
| 21:22.38 | fsmithred | make sure wlan0 is listed |
| 21:22.51 | mwarning | there is no wlan0 so far |
| 21:22.51 | fsmithred | or whatever your interface might be called |
| 21:23.13 | fsmithred | what wireless hardware you have? |
| 21:23.22 | fsmithred | lspci |grep -i net |
| 21:23.24 | mwarning | laptop default |
| 21:23.52 | mwarning | Broadcom Coporation Device 43a3 (rev 08) |
| 21:24.42 | mwarning | Anyway, "open wicd" gives me "Couldn't get a file descriptor referring to the console" |
| 21:24.53 | mwarning | (non root) |
| 21:25.23 | mwarning | wicd-gtk works better :) |
| 21:25.48 | mwarning | but now wiki |
| 21:25.55 | mwarning | wifi |
| 21:27.14 | mwarning | ok, got Internet access via usb dongle |
| 21:27.25 | mwarning | I need to update the kernel |
| 21:27.28 | fsmithred | good |
| 21:27.38 | fsmithred | you might need backports kernel and wireless firmware |
| 21:27.45 | mwarning | ^^ |
| 21:28.20 | fsmithred | ubuntu post says 4.4 kernel supports it. 4.9 is in backports. |
| 21:28.24 | fsmithred | or... |
| 21:28.44 | fsmithred | if you feel like downloading another iso, I made one with backports kernel and wireless |
| 21:29.02 | fsmithred | but I have a feeling you need the one firmware package I didn't know about |
| 21:29.18 | mwarning | :> |
| 21:29.50 | fsmithred | deb http://packages.devuan.org/merged jessie-backports main |
| 21:30.12 | mwarning | already uncommented |
| 21:30.18 | fsmithred | add that to sources.list, update, find 4.9 kernel |
| 21:30.26 | mwarning | I look for the correct kernel package |
| 21:31.25 | fsmithred | linux-image-4.9.0-0.bpo.3-amd64 |
| 21:31.50 | fsmithred | or |
| 21:32.08 | fsmithred | well, I'm not sure |
| 21:32.13 | mwarning | ok, I tried to install that package now |
| 21:32.23 | mwarning | I get unmet dependencies |
| 21:32.29 | fsmithred | linux-base |
| 21:32.31 | fsmithred | what else? |
| 21:32.37 | mwarning | nothing else |
| 21:32.43 | mwarning | only linux-base |
| 21:32.57 | fsmithred | add that to the install list |
| 21:33.18 | mwarning | ok |
| 21:33.18 | fsmithred | apt-get -t jessie-backports install blah blah |
| 21:33.31 | mwarning | ok, thanks. |
| 21:33.47 | mwarning | dowload in progress |
| 21:34.03 | mwarning | tiem to reboot |
| 21:34.07 | fsmithred | wait |
| 21:34.11 | fsmithred | wireless firmware |
| 21:34.16 | fsmithred | I'm not sure which one you need |
| 21:34.17 | mwarning | ah, right |
| 21:35.21 | fsmithred | from backports, try b43-installer |
| 21:35.21 | mwarning | isn't it one big package anyway? |
| 21:35.21 | fsmithred | nope |
| 21:35.21 | fsmithred | like 20 separate packages |
| 21:35.21 | fsmithred | and I think four of them are broadcom |
| 21:35.21 | mwarning | do I need to add non-free to sources.lst? |
| 21:35.30 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 21:36.05 | fsmithred | firmware-b43-installer |
| 21:36.20 | fsmithred | b43-fwcutter |
| 21:37.04 | mwarning | both? |
| 21:37.30 | mwarning | hm, probably yes |
| 21:37.31 | fsmithred | I think one of those installs the other |
| 21:37.52 | fsmithred | I've only done broadcom install twice |
| 21:37.55 | fsmithred | it's weird |
| 21:38.05 | mwarning | both isntalled now |
| 21:38.07 | mwarning | will reboot |
| 21:38.29 | fsmithred | keep the dongle nearby |
| 21:38.34 | mwarning | :P |
| 21:39.34 | mwarning | oh well |
| 21:39.45 | mwarning | the graphical login is gone |
| 21:40.24 | mwarning | and startx gives me "(EE) Fatal server error: no screens found" |
| 21:40.39 | mwarning | will check log file |
| 21:41.50 | fsmithred | it's gonna say the same thing |
| 21:43.30 | mwarning | "(WW) intel(0): Unknown chipset" and "(II) UnloadModule: "intel", "(EE) Screen(s) found, but none have a usable configuration" |
| 21:43.55 | fsmithred | that's weird |
| 21:44.25 | fsmithred | maybe boot with 'nomodeset' on boot command |
| 21:44.27 | *** join/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@anon-61-16.vpn.ipredator.se) |
| 21:44.34 | mwarning | k |
| 21:45.03 | mwarning | well, at least it tries to load intel_drv.so |
| 21:45.14 | fsmithred | I assume that's the right one |
| 21:45.23 | mwarning | yup |
| 21:45.57 | fsmithred | seems weird that it would be unknown to the newer kernel but the older kernel is fine with it. |
| 21:47.10 | mwarning | fsmithred: nomdeset helped |
| 21:47.15 | fsmithred | cool |
| 21:47.21 | mwarning | I have a graphical login |
| 21:47.23 | fsmithred | you know where to add that? |
| 21:47.32 | fsmithred | in /etc/default/grub |
| 21:47.48 | mwarning | ok, thanks |
| 21:47.52 | mwarning | will add that |
| 21:48.11 | *** join/#devuan Vizva (~Vizva@dslb-178-004-108-183.178.004.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 21:48.23 | fsmithred | GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet nomodeset" and then run update-grub |
| 21:49.55 | mwarning | done |
| 21:50.03 | mwarning | wifi does not work yet |
| 21:50.13 | fsmithred | iwconfig |
| 21:50.15 | mwarning | there was soem kernel message about that |
| 21:50.50 | mwarning | iwconfig tells me that device has a wireless extensio |
| 21:50.53 | mwarning | n |
| 21:51.12 | fsmithred | wlan0 is in wicd prefs? |
| 21:51.56 | mwarning | no |
| 21:52.10 | fsmithred | add it |
| 21:52.30 | fsmithred | then hit the refresh button and you should see your wireless network |
| 21:53.04 | mwarning | kernel message says: firmware: failed to load brcm/brcmfmac4350-pcie-bin (-2) |
| 21:53.26 | mwarning | I will try the refresh button |
| 21:53.48 | mwarning | Refresh won't show any wifi interfaces |
| 21:54.21 | mwarning | searches for the firmware |
| 21:55.20 | mwarning | package frmware-brcm80211 is already installed |
| 21:55.38 | fsmithred | do you know if that's the right one? |
| 21:55.46 | mwarning | no |
| 21:55.59 | fsmithred | install that from backports |
| 21:56.07 | fsmithred | and if that doesn't work, there's one more |
| 21:56.54 | fsmithred | may as well install broadcom-sta-dkms too. And you might need linux-header-$(uname -r) |
| 21:57.02 | fsmithred | headers (plural) |
| 22:00.31 | buZz | thomascovenant: what? :) |
| 22:00.34 | mwarning | fsmithred: the firmware-brcm80211 package from backports did it |
| 22:00.41 | mwarning | I have wlan0 |
| 22:00.48 | fsmithred | cool! |
| 22:00.57 | mwarning | but wicd won't stop scanning.. |
| 22:01.08 | fsmithred | bad signal maybe? |
| 22:01.34 | mwarning | no, reception should be excellent |
| 22:01.58 | mwarning | ok, I get "No wireless networks found." |
| 22:01.59 | mwarning | odd |
| 22:02.36 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 22:02.37 | *** join/#devuan rrq (~ralph@60-242-139-200.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 22:03.14 | mwarning | fsmithred: I will quit for today. Thanks for excellent help so far. |
| 22:03.25 | mwarning | time to get some sleep |
| 22:03.26 | fsmithred | yw |
| 22:03.49 | thomascovenant | buZz: right nick, wrong channel :-) |
| 22:04.18 | buZz | dangit :P |
| 22:08.42 | *** join/#devuan wfk (~wfk@orbit.contextshift.net) |
| 22:15.03 | *** join/#devuan DeFender (~DeFender1@89-138-182-62.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 22:15.03 | *** join/#devuan lastebil (truck@109.163.213.199) |
| 22:15.09 | *** join/#devuan opencw_ (~opencw@2a02:908:b42:d120:c48f:f131:127b:c269) |
| 22:15.10 | *** join/#devuan telmich_ (~deadghost@2a0a:e5c0:0:2:400:36ff:fea8:d041) |
| 22:15.10 | *** join/#devuan telmich_ (~deadghost@gpm/telmich) |