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| 00:28.07 | EHeM | Has anyone in Devuan thought about what the consequences of adding an include directive to init would be? Particularly if this also allowed one to include directories (/etc/inittab.d)? |
| 00:30.04 | gnarface | don't the bash scripts that make up /etc/init.d/ already DO includes? i thought they did. they used to at least... maybe i'm remembering that from RedHat days though... |
| 00:30.43 | EHeM | gnarface: Completely wrong, adding an include to *init* (the thing which handles /etc/inittab, PID 1). |
| 00:31.09 | gnarface | oh, not just subdividing the init scripts themselves into common functions |
| 00:31.21 | gnarface | what would you need that for? |
| 00:32.06 | gnarface | cause what i described, i could see a definite use for, and i see a lot of sysv init scripts that fail to benefit from what i though was an existing solution but... |
| 00:32.11 | gnarface | includes for the inittab? |
| 00:32.28 | EHeM | It could be used to gain many of the claimed benefits of systemd with only a tiny change. |
| 00:32.45 | gnarface | well that's a great pitch, you should hold on to that |
| 00:32.51 | gnarface | i don't see how, but that's a great pitch |
| 00:33.19 | EHeM | Likely you'd include /etc/inittab.d, but then also include /run/inittab.d. |
| 00:33.46 | gnarface | oh |
| 00:34.05 | gnarface | maybe that's the part they specifically *didn't* want PID1 able to do |
| 00:34.09 | gnarface | i'm not sure |
| 00:34.17 | EHeM | Dynamic hardware, plug in a USB-serial cable which adds /run/inittab.d/gettyUSB9 which then spawns a getty on the USB-serial cable. |
| 00:34.24 | gnarface | what you're talking about may have actually been the argument that launched systemd actually |
| 00:35.58 | EHeM | It was one of the things which launched systemd, but I was trying to come up with simpler ways (in the daemon and configuration) of achieving some of the same goals. |
| 00:39.01 | EHeM | Dynamic hardware is very real at this point and there should be a solution simpler than systemd, this is one such that doesn't break all the traditional rules. |
| 00:39.57 | gnarface | yes, well, systemd does feel very much like a temper tantrum where a teenager burns down a tree because he was told not to carve his name in it |
| 00:40.25 | gnarface | but at the same time, i would have only been okay with this personally given the hindsight of seeing what they'd do instead |
| 00:40.36 | gnarface | i can see why people would want to draw a line there |
| 00:40.42 | gnarface | it's still a big entry vector |
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| 01:09.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((<gnarface> don't the bash scripts that make up /etc/init.d/ already DO includes?)) of course, like `source <scriptname>`, resp a function call to do (simplified:) `for f in /etc/foo/bar/*; do source $f; done` |
| 01:12.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | include inittab snippets? why? |
| 01:14.10 | EHeM | DocScrutinizer05: Of key note such would allow for adding/removing daemons which expect to be supervised (getty) without needing to modify files on / and ensuring things don't collide. |
| 01:16.04 | EHeM | Also instead of having daemons started by /etc/init.d/<foo>, instead add a snippet to /run/inittab.d and then HUP 1. |
| 01:16.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, I'm no expert but some experts' opinions I read claimed that init and daemon monitoring are to disjunct tasks |
| 01:16.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | are two* |
| 01:16.54 | EHeM | 'tis a thought, perhaps not a good idea, but I do see some potential. |
| 01:17.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I pretty much understand that notion, it's in line with all the reasons why we don't like systemd |
| 01:18.44 | EHeM | My dislike of systemd is it is merging *everything* into systemd, this seems a simple step while avoiding the complexity. |
| 01:21.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | aiui it's exactly the first step on a path towards the monolithic complexity of systemd |
| 01:21.28 | EHeM | Which is the difficulty. :-/ |
| 01:22.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | !nosystemd |
| 01:22.00 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, nosystemd is https://devuan.org http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd http://blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2015/10/11/0/ |
| 01:22.17 | EHeM | Trick is to come up with better solutions, since the problems are very real. |
| 01:22.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | has a few links to excellent reviews/analysis of the issue, with listing and comparison of the daemon monitor solutions existing |
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| 02:49.36 | Chanku|Mobile | Hey |
| 02:50.25 | gnarface | good evening Chanku|Mobile, you look familiar |
| 02:52.32 | Chanku|Mobile | Well that is because I am :P |
| 02:53.18 | Chanku|Mobile | However I am mainly here because I am having an issue with connecting to WiFi and thought I could get some help. |
| 02:53.31 | gnarface | you might get some help |
| 02:54.15 | gnarface | traditionally the request for help has to be a bit more specific |
| 02:54.18 | Chanku|Mobile | Basically I am trying to connect to WiFi using WPA_supplicant but it keeps on not connecting to the network and skipping over the said. |
| 02:54.21 | Chanku|Mobile | *ssid |
| 02:54.34 | gnarface | hmmm |
| 02:54.50 | gnarface | when you say "skipping over" does that mean it connects to a different one than the one you wanted? |
| 02:55.22 | gnarface | or do you just mean that you've specified the ssid in your config but it seems to be ignored? |
| 02:55.23 | Chanku|Mobile | No, the debug output says the ssid doesn't match |
| 02:55.30 | gnarface | hmmm |
| 02:55.34 | gnarface | interesting |
| 02:55.51 | gnarface | just out of curiosity, do you happen to have that stealth ssid feature turned on at the router? |
| 02:56.04 | gnarface | it might be labeled something like "don't broadcast SSIDs" or something like that? |
| 02:56.05 | Chanku|Mobile | No. |
| 02:56.19 | gnarface | ok |
| 02:56.21 | Chanku|Mobile | It is showing up with WPA_supplicant though |
| 02:56.26 | gnarface | what's the wifi device? |
| 02:56.30 | Chanku|Mobile | (Ran with -dd) |
| 02:56.38 | gnarface | need a hardware model # |
| 02:56.41 | Chanku|Mobile | I am trying to connect to a friend's iPhone. |
| 02:56.50 | gnarface | no i mean of the wifi device in the computer, not at the remote end |
| 02:56.58 | Chanku|Mobile | Because tethering and we lack actual WiFi here. |
| 02:57.26 | gnarface | but it's wireless ethernet, not bluetooth thethering, right? |
| 02:57.35 | Chanku|Mobile | I wouldn't know. I know what the laptop is (Toughbook CF-30) |
| 02:57.40 | Chanku|Mobile | And yes, wireless |
| 02:58.58 | Leander | just a thought: are there any non-alphanumeric characters in the SSID? |
| 02:59.13 | Chanku|Mobile | Yes |
| 02:59.14 | Chanku|Mobile | ' |
| 02:59.38 | gnarface | Chanku|Mobile: that appears to be a 4965AG, which requires intel's non-free wifi firmware. "firmware-iwlwifi" package in non-free (on Jessie) |
| 02:59.54 | gnarface | Chanku|Mobile: if you're missing that package, that's my best bet as to why it's not working |
| 02:59.57 | Chanku|Mobile | (Which shows up as \xe2\x80\x99 |
| 03:00.10 | Chanku|Mobile | I've used the WiFi before |
| 03:00.40 | gnarface | just double check that you have the firmware-iwlwifi package installed. sometimes when they say "requires" non-free firmware it only actually requires it for WPA2, which maybe you didn't use last time |
| 03:00.57 | Leander | that's not an ASCII quote, that's what might be giving you trouble |
| 03:00.59 | gnarface | also, you'd see complaints about missing firmware somewhere in dmesg (probably in mid-boot) |
| 03:01.01 | Chanku|Mobile | I s |
| 03:01.24 | gnarface | weird characters in the SSID seem plausible too |
| 03:01.33 | gnarface | try changing it to alpha-numerics only if you can |
| 03:01.42 | Leander | especially if you fill up the wpa_supplicant.conf file by yourself |
| 03:01.48 | gnarface | https://wiki.debian.org/iwlegacy |
| 03:02.17 | gnarface | ^ the jessie information on this wiki page should be valid for devuan too |
| 03:02.32 | Leander | otherwise you can also give a try to wpa_gui if possible, it should handle them properly |
| 03:02.46 | gnarface | wifi-radar also works doesn't it? |
| 03:03.09 | gnarface | Leander: can having the proper locale installed help fix this? |
| 03:03.21 | gnarface | if they're just windows cp1215 curly quotes or something? |
| 03:03.30 | gnarface | or some unicode... |
| 03:03.41 | Leander | I think it's unicode, since it's an iphone |
| 03:04.12 | gnarface | Chanku|Mobile: yea, you might also want to make sure you have the UTF8 locale activated even if it's not the default (dpkg-reconfigure locales) |
| 03:04.34 | gnarface | apple stuff does really like to default to unicode |
| 03:04.43 | Chanku|Mobile | Okay |
| 03:05.04 | gnarface | i don't put weird characters in my SSID's though |
| 03:05.04 | Leander | and I don't know how to properly escape special characters in wpa_supplicant.conf |
| 03:06.38 | gnarface | me either |
| 03:07.01 | gnarface | haha i really like ethernet cable |
| 03:07.12 | gnarface | maybe too much |
| 03:07.40 | Chanku|Mobile | I use in_US.utf-8 |
| 03:07.59 | gnarface | ok. is that the only one? |
| 03:08.35 | Chanku|Mobile | No |
| 03:08.43 | gnarface | some stuff for a while still had bugs if you didn't also include iso-8859-1 (latin-1) but i don't think that's the problem here |
| 03:09.00 | gnarface | it's just as possible that apple supports non-standard characters in the wifi SSID |
| 03:09.27 | Chanku|Mobile | It is the default SSID I believe |
| 03:09.31 | gnarface | but i'm just about 100% certain that it WILL NOT WORK without firmware-iwlwifi |
| 03:09.48 | gnarface | you can check with: dpkg -l |grep firmware |
| 03:10.10 | Chanku|Mobile | I am pretty sure I have connected to a WPA2-PSK AP |
| 03:10.29 | gnarface | it's easy to double check |
| 03:10.40 | Chanku|Mobile | And no |
| 03:10.56 | gnarface | you sure that was with the same hardware? |
| 03:11.17 | gnarface | and same kernel? |
| 03:11.36 | gnarface | i'm out of ideas |
| 03:11.52 | Chanku|Mobile | Yup |
| 03:12.11 | gnarface | check your firewall? |
| 03:12.24 | Chanku|Mobile | How? |
| 03:12.41 | gnarface | depends |
| 03:12.49 | gnarface | maybe: iptables -L -v -t nat |
| 03:13.00 | gnarface | iptables -L -v |
| 03:14.53 | Chanku|Mobile | Is WPA/WPA2-PSK the sane thing? |
| 03:15.14 | gnarface | i think so, but i have seen devices that could only connect to WPA2-TKP |
| 03:16.18 | gnarface | make sure it's PSK |
| 03:16.37 | gnarface | they are not all the same, but you usually don't have to worry about it... |
| 03:16.58 | gnarface | i guess double-check what the phone allows too |
| 03:17.08 | gnarface | maybe there are some things you can change there |
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| 03:19.21 | gnarface | TKP worked? |
| 03:20.10 | Chanku2M | The reason why I could connect to WPA2-PSK AP's before, but not this, is because apparently WPA/WPA2-PSK was because WPA was a fallback it seems |
| 03:20.20 | Chanku2M | TKP? |
| 03:20.28 | gnarface | nevermind TKP |
| 03:20.39 | gnarface | WPA2 is sane, WPA is not |
| 03:20.49 | Chanku | Yeah... |
| 03:20.54 | gnarface | that's a problem |
| 03:21.04 | gnarface | did you check on that firmware? |
| 03:21.26 | Chanku | I don't have it. |
| 03:21.49 | gnarface | i can understand not wanting it, but ... in my experience it's definitely not gonna work without it |
| 03:22.03 | gnarface | you could use a different wifi device though |
| 03:22.12 | gnarface | nothing will stop you from using a USB wifi device |
| 03:22.43 | gnarface | but you'll want to be very careful to make sure you find one that doesn't also just require it's own non-free firmware in that case |
| 03:22.44 | Chanku | I don't have any other device atm |
| 03:22.51 | gnarface | (most the cheap ones do) |
| 03:23.24 | Chanku | I am trying to connect to a weak open WiFi network and download the firmware |
| 03:24.09 | gnarface | make sure to use encryption |
| 03:24.35 | gnarface | (use apt-get if possible instead of just downloading the package) |
| 03:24.38 | Chanku | I always do |
| 03:24.44 | gnarface | ok good just making sure |
| 03:25.00 | gnarface | good luck, brb |
| 03:50.39 | Chanku | Not working |
| 03:50.45 | Chanku | Hrm... |
| 04:10.11 | gnarface | come back, Chanku.... |
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| 05:47.16 | EHeM | Another modest proposal for the stack would be: Start modifying projects/submitting patches for moving towards using dlopen()/dlsym()/dlclose() for otherwise *optional* libraries. |
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| 06:00.06 | EHeM | is glad to learn the Turris Omnia appears to be within Devuan's targets. |
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| 06:52.45 | EHeM | Evening. |
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| 07:14.39 | Enrico_Menotti | Hello. I have built a package by using debuild. Now I need to change a detail in the source, just in a single .cpp file that executes some test. Is there a way to do a partial rebuild of the package, triggering only the build for the changed .cpp file and not for the rest, but executing all other steps (something like debuild -nc, but triggering the build for the changed file)? |
| 07:17.53 | gnu_srs | dpkg-buildpackage -b -nc might work. (dunno about debuild) |
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| 07:29.50 | aitor | Enrico: which source format are you using? basically, there are three: |
| 07:30.26 | aitor | Format: 1.0 is the oldest one, and includes a diff file |
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| 07:31.34 | aitor | Format: 3.0 (native) includes the debian branch implicitly in source tarball |
| 07:33.34 | aitor | Format: 3.0 (quilt) includes the debian branch in a separate tarball, and it's recommended to use it together with pristine-tar in major projects like the grub, the kernel... |
| 07:34.03 | aitor | there is another one used only in devuan for now: |
| 07:35.31 | aitor | Format: 3.0 (git) including the source in a *.git file and still not recognized officially in debian |
| 07:36.29 | aitor | see, for example, gdisk: http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/pool/main/g/gdisk/ |
| 07:37.35 | aitor | if you are using the quilt or the git source format, i recommend you git-buildpackage, instead of dpkg-buildpackage |
| 07:40.40 | aitor | using quilt you can apply a patch, mantaining constant the source tarball |
| 07:42.17 | aitor | for example, all the security patches for the kernel... |
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| 07:43.26 | aitor | uncompress the debian.tar.xz and have a look at debian/patches/series |
| 07:45.02 | aitor | which package are you trying to change, to fix ideas? |
| 07:48.36 | aitor | ok..., supposing the quilt source format, i'll put an example here: |
| 07:49.27 | Enrico_Menotti | aitor Thanks for answering. Now I have to go to work. Will read later (in the evening). |
| 07:49.46 | aitor | ok :) |
| 07:50.39 | aitor | 1.- Download the sources of slim: |
| 07:50.45 | aitor | apt-get source slim |
| 07:51.24 | aitor | 2.- Create a new folder and go to it: |
| 07:52.48 | aitor | mkdir slim |
| 07:52.50 | aitor | cd slim |
| 07:53.12 | aitor | 3.- Init a new empty git repository: |
| 07:53.15 | aitor | git inity |
| 07:53.21 | aitor | init* |
| 07:53.45 | aitor | git config --global user.name "Enrico Menotti" |
| 07:54.31 | aitor | git config --global user.email "your_email@gmail.com" |
| 07:54.55 | aitor | 4.- Import the description file: |
| 07:55.16 | aitor | git-import-dsc ../slim_1.3.6-5.1.dsc |
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| 07:57.19 | aitor | Quote: this last step still doesn't work in ascii (you need to use jessie's version of git-buildpackage) |
| 07:58.40 | aitor | 5.- Now, you can change the sources, but first, if you want to mantain constant the tarball of the sources, youĺl need to use pristinte-tar, developed in perl by Joey Hess |
| 07:59.17 | aitor | so, you have to generate the pristine-tar branch in your git repository: |
| 08:00.04 | aitor | pristine-tar commit ../slim_1.3.6.orig.tar.gz |
| 08:00.39 | aitor | this step can take some time in the case of big projects like the linux kernel |
| 08:01.26 | aitor | Aply your changes to the .cpp file |
| 08:01.51 | aitor | 6.- commit your changes: |
| 08:01.55 | aitor | git add . |
| 08:01.59 | aitor | git commit --all |
| 08:02.30 | aitor | 7.- Now, generate the quilt patch for this concrete change: |
| 08:02.38 | aitor | dpkg-source --commit |
| 08:03.29 | aitor | 8.- the 7 step will generate the patch in debian/patches, but now you need to commit this change: |
| 08:03.34 | aitor | git add . |
| 08:03.38 | aitor | git commit --all |
| 08:05.24 | aitor | 9.- you changed the slim package, so you need to change the version number of it in the debian/changelog INCREASING THE PART RELATED WITH THE DEBIAN BRANCH |
| 08:06.13 | aitor | for example, from 1.3.6-5 to 1.3.6-6: |
| 08:06.40 | aitor | git-dch --ignore-branch --auto --full --new-version=1.3.6-6 |
| 08:07.39 | parazyd | aitor: can those be automatically incremented? |
| 08:07.47 | parazyd | without specifying the new version? |
| 08:08.04 | aitor | yes, with the --auto option |
| 08:08.24 | parazyd | what about appending +Nfoo to the version (where N is incremented each build)? |
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| 08:10.32 | aitor | parazyd: will you decrease my grade :( |
| 08:10.42 | parazyd | huh? |
| 08:10.50 | aitor | it's a joke |
| 08:11.54 | parazyd | heh |
| 08:11.58 | aitor | retouch the debian/changelog, if neccesary mantining the generated timestamp, and commit this change in the changelog |
| 08:12.20 | parazyd | nah, i'm wondering how to do that with git-dch, but i haven't found a noninteractive/automatic way to do it |
| 08:13.12 | parazyd | for example if the changelog has 1.3.6-6, a consenquent build should update the changelog to 1.3.6.6-6+0foo |
| 08:13.14 | aitor | i didn't explore too much in git-dch |
| 08:13.21 | parazyd | this i can't find out an automatic way for |
| 08:13.52 | aitor | and the last step... |
| 08:14.01 | aitor | 10.- build the package: |
| 08:14.42 | aitor | git-buildpackage -j4 -tc -kXXXXXXXX --git-export-dir="../build-area" --git-pristine-tar --git-tag --git-ignore-branch |
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| 08:15.12 | aitor | here, XXXXXXXX is your gpg signature key |
| 08:16.07 | aitor | the generated orig.tar.xz will have the same md5sum than the original thanks to the use of pristine-tar |
| 08:16.39 | gnu_srs | aitor: Nice description. Can you put that info somewhere on the g.d.o web (not dev1galaxy)? |
| 08:16.41 | aitor | this is the reasen why you don't have to change the version number in the upstream branch |
| 08:16.53 | aitor | yes, of course |
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| 08:18.18 | aitor | one clarification: this last step needs an orig.tar.xz tarball in the parent directory |
| 08:20.11 | aitor | if it doesn't exit, you can checkout it using pristine-tar again: |
| 08:20.33 | aitor | pristine-tar checkout ../slim_1.3.6.orig.tar.gz |
| 08:21.01 | aitor | here you are an article by joey hess: |
| 08:21.02 | aitor | https://joeyh.name/blog/entry/generating_pristine_tarballs_from_git_repositories/ |
| 08:22.07 | aitor | my2cents, need to go :) |
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| 09:25.53 | system16 | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:26.09 | system16 | whats this ? im using filezilla |
| 09:28.00 | system16 | i cant show details cause its personal info...ssh key...ip... |
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| 10:32.11 | system16 | how to lookup lookup the fingerprint of the public part of the server's hostkey in devuan with no gui? |
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| 10:39.42 | system16 | its life/death thing plz respond to me if u can |
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| 10:55.53 | parazyd | system16: what server? |
| 10:56.05 | system16 | sftp file server |
| 10:56.35 | parazyd | connecting the first time to it? |
| 10:56.37 | system16 | someone in #filezilla said run this :for i in /etc/ssh/ssh_host*.pub; do ssh-keygen -l -f $i; done |
| 10:56.53 | parazyd | yeah you do that on the serve |
| 10:57.08 | djph | system16: that would work. Though you should already have your host key, since you've connected to it before ... |
| 10:58.00 | system16 | djph :the servers host key is unknown. you have no guarantee that the server is the computer you think it is <<filezilla |
| 10:58.07 | djph | indeed |
| 10:58.35 | system16 | host:192.168.1.5:22 |
| 10:58.38 | djph | same error you get if you ssh in on commandline |
| 10:59.30 | system16 | so a guy in #filezilla said :run that command and compare keys but im not sure what key should i compare |
| 10:59.47 | koollman | system16: how is that life/death ? :) |
| 11:00.26 | system16 | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:00.43 | system16 | ^^ in #filezilla |
| 11:00.45 | djph | system16: when you run that command (on your server) a bunch of fingerprints will be returned. These are your server's identification keys. Compare to the "key aa:bb:cc:[...] not known" that filezilla's whining about, when one matches, you know you're connecting to the right one |
| 11:00.58 | koollman | system16: so, ask a stranger on internet ? |
| 11:01.00 | djph | ... you're reading WAY too much into things still |
| 11:01.24 | djph | koollman: at least the stranger on the internet didn't just give him a forkbomb |
| 11:01.50 | djph | koollman: and at least he's trying to not be a user and just click through |
| 11:01.52 | koollman | "nah, this is the wrong server, here's the right one: exploitrepository.stuff" :) |
| 11:02.01 | system16 | hostkey algorithem:ssh****** (**** means i cant say it because of security) |
| 11:02.07 | djph | koollman: I'm not saying ... |
| 11:02.30 | djph | system16: you can give the full algo, it's not like we can't just check our own servers and see what algos they use |
| 11:02.46 | system16 | fingerprints:SHA256......... djph you mean this one? |
| 11:02.58 | djph | not to mention, you're trying to look at a local network machine |
| 11:03.01 | djph | system16: yes |
| 11:03.34 | system16 | no SHA256 only 256 |
| 11:04.03 | djph | system16: now, if filezilla is only showing the md5 (0A:1B:2C:etc) then you have to tell ssh-keygen to spit out the md5 fingerprint as well |
| 11:04.40 | system16 | ok plz wait im typing the fingerprint that filezilla is showing |
| 11:05.29 | koollman | I'm guessing this is a good case for using dnssec and sshfp records |
| 11:05.32 | djph | I don't care what your fingerprint is |
| 11:05.55 | djph | koollman: he's connecting to 192.168.x.y:22. DNSSEC won't help at all |
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| 11:08.17 | djph | koollman: well, it might, but we'd first have to walk him through setting up a DNS server. SSH (apt-get install openssh-server) was hard enough :P |
| 11:08.35 | system16 | SHA256: ecqWT5CnXydRM9/MH+EXR1/TtNM+WVRzHSEsEt3eNY=MD5: 36:9e:19:cd:11:cc:2d:30:50:99:f9:7b:cb:48:fe:0c |
| 11:08.51 | system16 | thats the fingerprint |
| 11:09.24 | system16 | but no SHA and ecq in the info in my server |
| 11:09.25 | djph | so then check your server's keys. One of them will be ecq[...]eNY |
| 11:09.47 | djph | system16: did you run the ssh-keygen command against the keys? |
| 11:10.29 | system16 | i did this :for i in /etc/ssh/ssh_host*.pub; do ssh-keygen -l -f $i; done |
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| 11:11.19 | djph | right |
| 11:12.11 | djph | and if you were in the right directory (/etc/ssh), you would've gotten several responses (by default, I believe 4) |
| 11:12.23 | system16 | non of them start with SSH256 |
| 11:12.30 | system16 | i can see 4 lines |
| 11:12.35 | djph | one of which would've matched either the SHA256 OR the MD5 hash |
| 11:13.07 | djph | depending on which output format ssh-keygen -l used (IIRC, it defaults to SHA-256, but it may be MD5) |
| 11:13.45 | djph | if sha256 -> you'll have four lines of SHA256 hash garbage |
| 11:13.53 | system16 | im in /etc/ssh |
| 11:14.02 | system16 | im running the command again |
| 11:14.03 | djph | if MD5 -> you'll have four lines of MD5 fingerprint |
| 11:14.32 | system16 | first line starts with 1024..... |
| 11:14.34 | djph | doesn't matter that you only get one or the other -- filezilla just handed you both (as not all implementations of ssh do SHA256 output hashes) |
| 11:14.43 | system16 | 256.... |
| 11:14.54 | system16 | 2048.... |
| 11:15.06 | djph | the output is |
| 11:15.22 | djph | <key-bit-length> <key-fingerprint> <key-name> |
| 11:15.34 | system16 | ? |
| 11:15.43 | djph | it's three pieces of information |
| 11:15.57 | djph | er four |
| 11:16.00 | djph | e.g. |
| 11:16.00 | djph | 1024 73:5a:23:6b:22:cf:1b:7c:42:70:64:3b:83:18:9e:6c ssh_host_dsa_key.pub (DSA) |
| 11:16.39 | djph | 1024 bit key / fingerprint= 73:5a:[...]6c / filename / key-type (DSA) |
| 11:17.26 | system16 | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:17.33 | djph | in your case, match either ecq[...]eNY OR 36:9e:[...]:0c from what Filezilla told you to one of the four keys |
| 11:17.45 | system16 | (dsa) i mean |
| 11:18.05 | system16 | and the numbers are a bit different |
| 11:18.08 | djph | That's one of my keys. I highly doubt you'll have the same one. |
| 11:19.04 | system16 | no the numbers after 1024 are different |
| 11:19.17 | djph | damn straight they are |
| 11:19.43 | djph | it's a key fingerprint. The fingerprints at the end of my fingers are different than yours ... |
| 11:20.09 | system16 | ok but it doesnt match with the fingerprint that filezilla is giving me... |
| 11:20.24 | djph | so then read the next one down |
| 11:20.30 | djph | you got four responses, didn't you? |
| 11:20.36 | system16 | 4 lines |
| 11:21.14 | system16 | now what ? |
| 11:21.58 | system16 | i think non of them match non of them start with SSH256 or MD5 |
| 11:22.05 | djph | the server is only going to present one key, based on the (generally strongest) |
| 11:22.38 | djph | the "SSA256" and "MD5" bits are just informational so the user can differentiate |
| 11:23.17 | djph | all that matters is the key fingerprint "ecq..." for SHA256 or "36:9c..." for MD5 |
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| 11:27.38 | system16 | sorry network issue |
| 11:27.52 | system16 | you were saying something djph? |
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| 11:28.28 | system16 | ? |
| 11:29.07 | djph | 07:23 < djph> all that matters is the key fingerprint "ecq..." for SHA256 or |
| 11:29.07 | djph | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:29.24 | djph | ... oops, got an extra lf in there ... |
| 11:30.30 | system16 | as far as i can see just some numbers no MD5 or SHA256 or ecq |
| 11:31.30 | system16 | ok im typing the output of that command ... |
| 11:31.47 | system16 | in dpaste... |
| 11:32.48 | djph | look, "SHA256:" and "MD5:" are simply labels for the fingerprints that follow them. FORGET THE LABEL AND COMPARE THE GODDAMN FINGERPRINT |
| 11:33.14 | djph | do any of the keys (after the 1024 / 256 / 2048 / whatever) start "36:"? |
| 11:33.53 | system16 | yes |
| 11:33.57 | system16 | one of them start with 36 |
| 11:35.13 | system16 | hey that one matches with the MD5 thing in filezilla |
| 11:35.30 | djph | hey, you're not a complete blockhead ... |
| 11:35.44 | djph | there ya go, you've validated your server is your server |
| 11:35.48 | system16 | lol |
| 11:36.10 | system16 | so no security threat? |
| 11:37.08 | djph | no |
| 11:37.12 | djph | *no, there is not |
| 11:37.47 | system16 | ok im clicking on always trust this host... |
| 11:39.23 | system16 | problem solved resuming uploading of personal data |
| 11:40.23 | djph | ... what'd you change such that your PC forgot your "server" host ID? |
| 11:41.13 | system16 | i did nothing this massage is here since the first day.. djph |
| 11:41.47 | system16 | that* |
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| 11:56.15 | djph | ... and you didn't think to ask days ago? |
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| 12:26.24 | peetaur2 | service ganglia-monitor status works for ubuntu and debian, but not devuan... the init script has no status command; can that be fixed? |
| 12:26.40 | peetaur2 | it makes puppet fail to start it |
| 12:26.54 | peetaur2 | it tries to start it when it's already started |
| 12:30.12 | peetaur2 | here's a patch that works for me https://bpaste.net/show/7b5535d0e6d8 |
| 12:30.35 | peetaur2 | oops plz fix indentation |
| 12:32.12 | peetaur2 | here's consistent indentation http://termbin.com/ck0e ...but the original was already inconsistent, mixing tabs and 2 spaces...gah |
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| 14:20.42 | aitor | hi |
| 14:21.23 | AntoFox | o/ |
| 14:23.08 | aitor | \o |
| 14:23.42 | aitor | i've been working on the gtk2 and gtk3 themes for ascii |
| 14:24.00 | AntoFox | \o/ |
| 14:24.14 | aitor | in two colours: purpy and green |
| 14:24.55 | aitor | the theme looks very homogeneous, i've been using them for months |
| 14:26.59 | aitor | please, give it a try: |
| 14:27.00 | aitor | http://gnuinos.org/devuan-gtk-themes-ascii.tar.gz |
| 14:29.26 | aitor | copy your .gtkrc-2.0 and your .config/gtk-3.0/settings.init to /root, after selecting the theme |
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| 15:08.11 | golinux | Enrico_Menotti: Have you seen this thread in dev1galaxy? Someone was working on slim: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=1118 |
| 15:08.38 | golinux | Might be something useful for you in there |
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| 15:13.51 | aitor | golinux: Enrico_Menotti wasn't insterested on slim this morning, i think; i switched a random package for the howto which uses the guilt source format |
| 15:14.11 | aitor | *quilt |
| 15:15.04 | aitor | golinux: the scroll bars and the progress bars of my purpy theme still need some improvements |
| 15:15.34 | golinux | aitor: I just read your email about purpy. |
| 15:16.24 | aitor | ok |
| 15:17.25 | golinux | fsr rolled me an updated refracta ascii so I'll be able to look at it there. |
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| 15:19.08 | aitor | the purpy colour used in refracta is somewhat brighter, maybe |
| 15:20.27 | golinux | I know. We call it purky - combo og purpy and milky(way) |
| 15:21.19 | golinux | og > of |
| 15:23.45 | golinux | Refracta base colors make it difficult to work on purpy colors without installing and redoing all the graphics from the ground up.. So not terribly useful for me but better than nothing. . |
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| 15:28.00 | aitor | golinux: look at the .css files of my theme, when you have the time for that, and compare the appearance of aplications like pdfchain (it has a notebook), file-roller (because of the frame of the window), synaptic (the progress bars) and the borders of the popup-menus (being disabled all the composite managers)... compare my theme with others |
| 15:28.25 | aitor | the separators of the menus in gtk3 are missing |
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| 15:30.10 | aitor | need to go, see you later |
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| 16:45.20 | fsmithred | golinux, purpy is not installed in refracta, but it's there with the other themes. |
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| 16:51.28 | golinux | fsmithred: Yes, I know but it would need to be changed every time I put it in qemu without installing and saving. I like to do a hit and run. Saves me having to figure out how to install and my VB isn't working too well. |
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| 16:51.51 | fsmithred | you should get a usb stick for testing |
| 16:52.24 | fsmithred | helps if you have a second computer so you don't have to reboot your main rig. |
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| 17:59.43 | Enrico_Menotti | This morning aitor explained lots of things about packaging. However, I'm still stuck at my problem: when changing a very small bit in a single file, I don't need to rebuild the whole package. I may issue debuild with the -nc option, but that doesn't build anything, so my change doesn't get into the binary. A similar question with discussion: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/304590/how-to-debuild-debian-apache- |
| 17:59.43 | Enrico_Menotti | without-it-performing-a-clean. However, I don't understand it. |
| 17:59.46 | Enrico_Menotti | Any help? |
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| 19:06.44 | blinkdog | What are you trying to build Enrico? |
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| 19:56.48 | Enrico_Menotti | blinkdog It is dbus-cpp. I seem to have found the clue. But it seems to be very package-specific. The build was successful, but at the end 15 tests are done; they all run smooth except the first, and that stops the packaging process. I modded the source file for that test, by reducing the workload on the system (if I got it right, this test tries to run 5 parallel threads; with just 3, all works fine). The problem |
| 19:56.48 | Enrico_Menotti | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:57.22 | blinkdog | ahhh okay |
| 19:59.13 | Enrico_Menotti | I found out, after some trial & error, that when I modify the test source file, debuild -nc doesn't trigger its rebuilding. I had to cd to some obj* directory inside the package root directory (seems to be where sources are actually built, or something of this kind) and issue make <testname>. If the test source has been modified, make triggers a rebuild for this file. After that, a make test runs all the tests. |
| 19:59.55 | blinkdog | Is that a package (dbus-cpp) specific thing or a Debian packaging thing? |
| 20:00.14 | Enrico_Menotti | Now I'm trying to rebuild the complete package with debuild from a brand new downloaded source, where I just made the slight modification described above. Let's see. |
| 20:01.21 | Enrico_Menotti | blinkdog I think it's a package-specific thing. The behaviour of the makefiles, I mean. The fact that debuild doesn't recognise local modifications, that I don't know. |
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| 20:35.39 | *** join/#devuan Ryushin (chris@2001:470:4b:38f:777::876c) |
| 20:43.17 | *** join/#devuan tsuggs (~tsuggs@adsl-074-171-024-060.sip.int.bellsouth.net) |
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| 20:45.27 | tsuggs | anyone here use the chromeveryon armhf images |
| 20:49.28 | *** join/#devuan nmollerup (~nmo@87.72.204.36) |
| 21:06.29 | *** join/#devuan aitor (~aitor@171.85-84-183.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es) |
| 21:08.57 | *** join/#devuan mockingbird (63e4a5f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.228.165.249) |
| 21:09.01 | mockingbird | Hello |
| 21:09.11 | aitor | hi |
| 21:09.11 | mockingbird | Can someone give me a hand please with a new Devuan 1.0 install please? |
| 21:09.25 | *** join/#devuan greenjeans (~greenjean@104.240.28.105) |
| 21:09.35 | mockingbird | I installed everything ok but I can't connect to my iPhone |
| 21:10.02 | mockingbird | I noticed that the included version of libimobiledev is 1.6, whereas they are currently at version |
| 21:10.04 | mockingbird | two |
| 21:10.12 | mockingbird | I searched "jessie-backports" to no avail |
| 21:10.56 | mockingbird | argh my "two" on my keyboard is broken |
| 21:17.55 | *** join/#devuan ChubYann (~ChubYann@LFbn-BOR-1-69-158.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 21:18.46 | mockingbird | Anyone here have an iPhone connected successfully to their linux? |
| 21:22.38 | aitor | not me |
| 21:22.56 | *** join/#devuan telst4r (~telst4r@fsf/member/telst4r) |
| 21:23.01 | mockingbird | * hi |
| 21:23.07 | aitor | hi |
| 21:23.17 | mockingbird | aitor do you know maybe? |
| 21:23.27 | mockingbird | any experience with this? |
| 21:23.52 | mockingbird | ah a hello bot only |
| 21:23.54 | aitor | nope, i have an LG |
| 21:23.59 | mockingbird | ah ok |
| 21:24.08 | aitor | a* |
| 21:24.12 | aitor | a LG |
| 21:24.18 | mockingbird | an |
| 21:24.42 | aitor | a |
| 21:24.51 | unixman | A Samsung. |
| 21:24.57 | mockingbird | When the pronunciation of the successive word begins phonetically with a vowel you say "an" |
| 21:25.31 | mockingbird | hey what is this windowing system in the default desktop manager |
| 21:25.41 | mockingbird | it's not KDE but it's decent enough |
| 21:25.53 | unixman | Xfce4 |
| 21:25.59 | mockingbird | nice |
| 21:26.16 | unixman | Yup. I use it everywhere I want a GUI. |
| 21:26.16 | saptech | mockingbird, don't you need itunes with it? |
| 21:26.29 | aitor | a LG, not an LG |
| 21:26.38 | mockingbird | I like KDE the best because I can make it look like Windows, but not at the expense of using SystemD |
| 21:26.44 | aitor | L is not a vowel |
| 21:27.01 | mockingbird | They keep doing stupid things like systemd to balkanize the development and user base |
| 21:27.19 | unixman | Meh, KDE lost me a few years ago. The 4.0 tire fire was the last straw. |
| 21:27.41 | saptech | heh, me too |
| 21:27.46 | mockingbird | I did not say when it proceeds a vowel, I said when the subsequent word uses a vowel in its pronunciation |
| 21:28.10 | mockingbird | *preceeds |
| 21:28.13 | golinux | You say it like"el" |
| 21:28.21 | mockingbird | yes |
| 21:28.21 | aitor | so, the rigth way is an LG? |
| 21:28.23 | mockingbird | exactly |
| 21:28.26 | mockingbird | yes |
| 21:28.26 | golinux | and "e" is a vowel |
| 21:29.13 | mockingbird | Ok I'll try to compile from source... Time to install 1000 compile dependencies lol |
| 21:29.32 | mockingbird | or maybe I'll try to hack in the Ubuntu PPA |
| 21:30.36 | mockingbird | ah ok Debian Sid has 2.x |
| 21:30.45 | mockingbird | So maybe I'll burn a copy of Devuan unstable |
| 21:30.47 | mockingbird | yea |
| 21:33.27 | mockingbird | hey what's a good burning app for Devuan? |
| 21:34.02 | mockingbird | ah here we go xfburn |
| 21:34.24 | mockingbird | good job devs |
| 21:34.44 | mockingbird | any pitfalls in unstable anyone wants to mention? |
| 21:35.51 | Guest97807 | you mean, aside from the fact there's no copy to burn in the first place? |
| 21:35.59 | mockingbird | lol |
| 21:36.07 | mockingbird | yea good point |
| 21:36.12 | mockingbird | How do you obtain Ceres? |
| 21:36.16 | gnarface | upgrade |
| 21:36.26 | mockingbird | Would you please tell me the command? |
| 21:36.29 | gnarface | you probably only need to go to ascii |
| 21:36.45 | gnarface | last night after you left, there were more things i wanted to suggest but didn't get a chance to |
| 21:36.47 | mockingbird | apt-get dist upgrade? |
| 21:37.10 | *** join/#devuan kelsoo_ (~kelsoo@86.53.50.178) |
| 21:37.13 | gnarface | first of all, that maybe that wifi device missing the firmware package was still the issue, but maybe the firmware pakcage in jessie was too old |
| 21:37.22 | mockingbird | who are you referring to? |
| 21:37.27 | gnarface | (i've seen that before; needed to upgrade to ascii to get the wifi working for a 5-year old laptop) |
| 21:37.33 | gnarface | i'm referring to you |
| 21:37.47 | mockingbird | You are mistaking me for someone else |
| 21:37.55 | gnarface | you weren't in here last night with a different handle also trying to get a toughbook to tether to an iphone |
| 21:37.57 | mockingbird | This is the first time in my life I have been on here |
| 21:37.57 | gnarface | ? |
| 21:38.03 | mockingbird | No |
| 21:38.06 | gnarface | interesting |
| 21:38.17 | gnarface | ok well then you're not the first person to run into that problem in the last 24 hours |
| 21:38.21 | gnarface | it might help you to know that |
| 21:38.25 | mockingbird | ah cool |
| 21:38.37 | mockingbird | So I got to go to testing first? I can't go straight to unstable? |
| 21:38.39 | aitor | gnarface is known now as Guest97807 |
| 21:38.42 | gnarface | also, yes the command is "apt-get update && apt-get upgrade && apt-get dist-upgrade" if you want to be completely pedantic |
| 21:38.53 | gnarface | yes, like debian, you can't skip releases |
| 21:39.25 | mockingbird | ok update updates the packages, upgrade goes to testing, then dist-upgrade to unstable?> |
| 21:39.28 | aitor | sorry, i'm experiencing with the /me command |
| 21:39.32 | gnarface | just change the sources.list, then run the "apt-get update && apt-get upgrade && apt-get dist-upgrade" command, rinse, repeat (read the release notes if you have anything important on the machine) |
| 21:39.47 | fsmithred | you can keep ascii in your sources and just add ceres. Most of the packages are the same now, anyway, and I think there are a few cases where ascii has the newer package. |
| 21:40.04 | aitor | is known now as aitor_ |
| 21:40.11 | KatolaZ | mockingbird: I would suggest you don't go to ceres at all, if you don't know what apt-get dist-upgrade does.... |
| 21:40.47 | gnarface | "update" updates the package cache for apt, "upgrade" upgrades all packages in this release, while "dist-upgrade" explicitly also upgrades packages that are from the next release (it's somewhat redundant to "upgrade" first but advised anyway to avoid some obscure package bugs) |
| 21:41.06 | mockingbird | Excellent thanks |
| 21:41.19 | gnarface | and yea, for now just go to ascii |
| 21:41.26 | aitor | is known now as aitor_ once again |
| 21:41.28 | *** join/#devuan Artemis3 (~artemis3@190.213.226.219) |
| 21:42.12 | fsmithred | no, he's still aitor |
| 21:42.15 | aitor | the /me command is funny :) |
| 21:42.21 | gnarface | mockingbird: we never got far enough with the other guy to determine for sure whether the problem was something that had to be fixed by changing the iPhone configuration. weird non-alphanumeric characters in the default SSID were also suspect. |
| 21:43.00 | mockingbird | oh ok |
| 21:43.06 | mockingbird | no nothing like that here |
| 21:43.08 | gnarface | mockingbird: but his hardware required non-free firmware which he had not installed either, because he mistakenly believed it was not required; turns out it was required for WPA2 but not WPA1 - so that's something to check too |
| 21:43.15 | mockingbird | just a plain jane iPhone 5s |
| 21:43.19 | mockingbird | no jailbreak or anything like that |
| 21:43.23 | mockingbird | even running iOS 9 |
| 21:43.32 | mockingbird | It's just got to be an old version of libimobiledev |
| 21:44.03 | mockingbird | What does it have to do with WPA? This is connected to the USB |
| 21:44.07 | mockingbird | Fuse is installed |
| 21:44.17 | gnarface | oh, literally connect |
| 21:44.19 | mockingbird | ah ah ok I see |
| 21:44.24 | gnarface | yea i thought you were trying to do wifi tether like he was |
| 21:44.27 | mockingbird | You mean to say it uses WPA even through USB? |
| 21:44.31 | mockingbird | ah ok no |
| 21:44.35 | gnarface | no, i'm sorry i've completely jumped to the wrong conclusion here |
| 21:44.35 | mockingbird | just trying to backup my device |
| 21:44.47 | mockingbird | no no you answer... I have to thank you just for that |
| 21:44.48 | gnarface | yea nevermind the wifi stuff, forget all that |
| 21:45.00 | mockingbird | Otherwise it is talking to Dr Sbaitso in here |
| 21:45.32 | gnarface | it's just really quiet in the daytime here because most the regulars are European |
| 21:45.33 | golinux | mockingbird: You'll need to either upgrade to rsyslog from backports or use syslog-ng or busybox-syslogd before you ugrade to ascii. |
| 21:46.41 | golinux | (unless of course that troublesome dependency has been finally fixed in the ascii repos) |
| 21:46.57 | KatolaZ | golinux: it is not needed at all |
| 21:47.00 | mockingbird | golinux wow thanks thanks |
| 21:47.16 | KatolaZ | you can use ascii with the version of rsyslog in the repo |
| 21:47.23 | KatolaZ | mockingbird: ^^^^ |
| 21:47.28 | mockingbird | I'll try to upgrade it right now from backports |
| 21:47.33 | KatolaZ | mockingbird: please don't |
| 21:47.36 | KatolaZ | there is no need |
| 21:47.48 | KatolaZ | the problem with rsyslogd is only upon a new installation of ascii |
| 21:47.51 | KatolaZ | not for upgrades |
| 21:47.52 | mockingbird | ok |
| 21:47.59 | mockingbird | command erased lol |
| 21:48.13 | gnarface | KatolaZ: is Beowulf up? |
| 21:48.22 | KatolaZ | gnarface: not yet |
| 21:48.24 | mockingbird | let me start with an apt-get update first |
| 21:48.26 | mockingbird | while we chat |
| 21:48.59 | golinux | <KatolaZ> the problem with rsyslogd is only upon a new installation of ascii |
| 21:49.13 | golinux | Didn't realize that was the case. Thanks. |
| 21:49.20 | KatolaZ | golinux: np :) |
| 21:49.33 | mockingbird | ok I'm goot to go for an apt-get upgrade (or dist upgrade as they used to recommend)? |
| 21:49.53 | mockingbird | *good |
| 21:50.30 | KatolaZ | mockingbird: have you updated your sources.list first? |
| 21:50.34 | mockingbird | yes |
| 21:50.38 | mockingbird | it also did it during install |
| 21:50.47 | mockingbird | apt-get upgrade did nothing |
| 21:50.52 | mockingbird | Should I try dist-upgrade? |
| 21:51.11 | KatolaZ | uh? |
| 21:51.29 | mockingbird | 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded |
| 21:51.34 | mockingbird | that was for apt-get upgrade |
| 21:51.55 | mockingbird | hey look at that they still list bootlogd in apt-cache... I wonder if they finally fixed it after 15 years |
| 21:53.15 | KatolaZ | ? |
| 21:53.50 | mockingbird | bootlogd - logged boot time messages but stopped working years ago, deprecated, replaced with nothing, and now seemingly available again |
| 21:53.59 | mockingbird | don't worry about it I was just going off on a tangent |
| 21:54.14 | mockingbird | but apt-get upgrade did not initiate an upgrade to ascii |
| 21:54.24 | mockingbird | Shall I try apt-get dist-upgrade? |
| 21:54.40 | fsmithred | did you update after changing sources? |
| 21:54.45 | KatolaZ | mockingbird: apt-get upgrade will never initiare an upgrade to a new release... |
| 21:54.50 | KatolaZ | ~initiate |
| 21:55.03 | mockingbird | ah ok |
| 21:55.15 | KatolaZ | unless you have apt-get update-d |
| 21:55.20 | mockingbird | it's just for package updates then... I need to do dist-upgrade |
| 21:55.34 | KatolaZ | mockingbird: are you sure you upgraded oyur sources.list? |
| 21:55.35 | mockingbird | say yes and I will type it in |
| 21:55.38 | KatolaZ | ~your |
| 21:55.46 | mockingbird | ah ok ok ok thanks sorry no I forgot one moment please |
| 21:55.52 | KatolaZ | ... |
| 21:55.52 | mockingbird | still in etc/apt? |
| 21:56.07 | gnarface | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:56.16 | fsmithred | you new to debian-based distros? |
| 21:56.22 | mockingbird | no |
| 21:56.25 | mockingbird | just rusty |
| 21:56.33 | gnarface | (i've only seen google and opera packages use /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ though) |
| 21:56.46 | fsmithred | nothing like diving right in... |
| 21:57.02 | fsmithred | there's a devuan.list in that dir |
| 21:57.11 | mockingbird | sources.list.d has only devuan.list and everything is commented out |
| 21:57.17 | fsmithred | ok |
| 21:57.22 | mockingbird | indeed, /etc/apt/sources.list seems to be correct here |
| 21:57.30 | fsmithred | change jessie to ascii |
| 21:57.45 | mockingbird | in sources.list or devuan.list? |
| 21:57.51 | fsmithred | sources.list |
| 21:57.55 | mockingbird | thanks |
| 21:58.57 | mockingbird | doh forgot to sudo |
| 21:59.44 | mockingbird | done and done |
| 21:59.49 | mockingbird | now apt-get upgrade? |
| 21:59.57 | mockingbird | wait first apt-get update |
| 21:59.57 | fsmithred | update first |
| 22:00.01 | mockingbird | then apt-get upgrade? |
| 22:00.04 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 22:00.04 | mockingbird | yes thanks |
| 22:00.10 | fsmithred | or dist-upgrade |
| 22:00.19 | fsmithred | I've done it both ways |
| 22:00.34 | mockingbird | I've got to comment my Jessie DVD out first |
| 22:00.44 | mockingbird | I always get the 4gb ISOs |
| 22:00.49 | mockingbird | to save download times |
| 22:01.37 | mockingbird | wow they really cleaned up the Atheros drivers... Look at that 10mbps+/sec |
| 22:02.52 | mockingbird | question: apt-get upgrade gives only 189mb, dist-upgrade is 700+. What's the difference? |
| 22:03.12 | fsmithred | upgrade does not install any packages that aren't already installed |
| 22:03.17 | fsmithred | dist-upgrade does |
| 22:03.29 | mockingbird | Ah excellent thanks |
| 22:03.41 | mockingbird | upgrade it is (NOT dist-upgrade) |
| 22:04.15 | KatolaZ | mockingbird: you must give a dist-upgrade after the upgrade when you change release |
| 22:04.26 | KatolaZ | (or better, you should) |
| 22:04.47 | mockingbird | Why is that? apt-cache has all the new packages for the upgraded dist, what's the point? |
| 22:06.49 | fsmithred | run it with -s (--simulate) to see what you're missing |
| 22:07.54 | KatolaZ | mockingbird: you might (and will) have more packages added in the new release (see e.g. firefox-esr) |
| 22:08.31 | mockingbird | fsmithred, KatolaZ: Firefox ESR came installed with Jessie |
| 22:09.17 | mockingbird | Ok, upgrade done, reboot and then dist-upgrade? |
| 22:09.38 | fsmithred | did you get a new kernel? |
| 22:09.44 | fsmithred | look in /boot |
| 22:11.11 | fsmithred | doesn't really matter if you reboot now or not |
| 22:11.18 | mockingbird | no |
| 22:11.29 | mockingbird | no new kernel |
| 22:11.37 | fsmithred | keep going |
| 22:11.39 | mockingbird | 3.16.0-4 |
| 22:11.40 | mockingbird | thanks |
| 22:11.51 | greenjeans | got a little older this weekend |
| 22:12.10 | fsmithred | if you want to see which packages did not get upgraded yet... |
| 22:12.30 | fsmithred | aptitude search ~i -F"%p# %v# %t#" | grep -v testing |
| 22:13.05 | fsmithred | greenjeans is a virgo? I should have guessed. |
| 22:13.39 | greenjeans | Yep, a really prime example of one too |
| 22:13.39 | mockingbird | thanks fsmithred |
| 22:14.40 | fsmithred | I may need your help trimming a few mb off refracta so it fits on cd again. |
| 22:15.11 | greenjeans | spent a good chunk of one day last week staring at a screen for 4 hours and added a comma, next morning I took it out |
| 22:15.13 | mockingbird | Use Gigarec on a Plextor drive |
| 22:15.34 | fsmithred | what's that do? |
| 22:15.42 | mockingbird | Gives you 1GB on an ordinary CD |
| 22:15.43 | greenjeans | ooh I have all kinds of new places to use the delete hammer on FSR |
| 22:15.46 | gnarface | mockingbird: the issue is, after you've changed your sources.list to point to the next release, until you "dist-upgrade" you're still stuck on the last release except for packages that are also in the next release - putting you in a unstable halfway state between both releases. 'dist-upgrade' will not only add packages that weren't there before, it may also REMOVE deprecated packages (stuff that would break the release |
| 22:15.47 | gnarface | if it remained) |
| 22:16.04 | greenjeans | trying to document a comprehensive list |
| 22:16.07 | mockingbird | gnarface - brilliant. Thanks |
| 22:16.20 | *** join/#devuan polocho (~polocho@89.141.233.231.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 22:16.22 | mockingbird | (it is doing dist-upgrade right now) |
| 22:16.46 | fsmithred | cool greenjeans. With the usual package list it's coming out around 780mb |
| 22:17.04 | mockingbird | it actually only downloaded some 550mb fsmithred |
| 22:17.10 | mockingbird | it's already at the install point |
| 22:17.11 | greenjeans | Is that + or - /usr/share/docs? |
| 22:17.19 | fsmithred | with |
| 22:17.20 | KatolaZ | 23:11 * greenjeans got a little older this weekend |
| 22:17.22 | KatolaZ | really? |
| 22:17.23 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 22:17.31 | fsmithred | I won't get rid of docs |
| 22:17.39 | fsmithred | although... |
| 22:17.39 | greenjeans | yep, fitty-tree now Katolaz |
| 22:17.41 | mockingbird | I'll just ctrl-c out of the mid-install release notes |
| 22:17.56 | KatolaZ | greenjeans: this is a good period to get older :P |
| 22:17.59 | fsmithred | I never use docs, either. Hardly ever. |
| 22:18.02 | mockingbird | ah you mean refracta ok sorry |
| 22:18.06 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 22:18.56 | mockingbird | oops |
| 22:19.00 | greenjeans | I never do either FSR, most people don't. Main reason is most of those doc packages contain no useable info, just ginormous changelogs and redundant copies of common licenses |
| 22:19.09 | fsmithred | oh, btw, buttons and borders are deprecated in ascii (in some apps) |
| 22:19.14 | mockingbird | what a buffoon I am |
| 22:19.26 | mockingbird | I didn't finish either upgrade or dist-upgrade |
| 22:19.36 | mockingbird | I killed upgrade by breaking out of the changelogs |
| 22:19.48 | KatolaZ | mockingbird: just give the command again |
| 22:19.53 | mockingbird | What is the correct way of proceeding with the install when presented with the changelogs? |
| 22:20.01 | greenjeans | Katolaz: it really is, interesting times man.... |
| 22:20.01 | fsmithred | q |
| 22:20.15 | fsmithred | you're in less, so q gets you out |
| 22:20.20 | KatolaZ | greenjeans: I know :) |
| 22:20.21 | mockingbird | ah ok thanks |
| 22:20.31 | mockingbird | THERE we go |
| 22:20.38 | mockingbird | now it's crunching |
| 22:21.23 | greenjeans | FSR: are you leaving in all the locales? |
| 22:21.36 | mockingbird | Should I stick with nouveau or go to the binaries? What's recommended these days? |
| 22:21.48 | KatolaZ | greenjeans: he has to, for the live iso... |
| 22:21.51 | fsmithred | yes, keeping locales in. |
| 22:22.00 | gnarface | mockingbird: depends on what you're doing with it, and the age of the nvidia device |
| 22:22.13 | mockingbird | I think it's Pascal (GTX 650) |
| 22:22.13 | greenjeans | IMO nouveau has been really good the last couple years Mockingbird |
| 22:22.14 | fsmithred | I already had the whole world pissed off at me for removing them |
| 22:22.19 | mockingbird | nice |
| 22:22.31 | KatolaZ | fsmithred: :D |
| 22:22.41 | kelsoo_ | nouveau work here |
| 22:22.44 | gnarface | mockingbird: in general, nouveau is better for everything except video decoding and gaming |
| 22:22.46 | mockingbird | FF is complaining about nouveau in about:support, maybe chromium will be better |
| 22:22.48 | greenjeans | dang FSR....so is the whole world mad at me for wiping them out in my stuff? |
| 22:22.52 | kelsoo_ | nouveau works here* |
| 22:22.53 | mockingbird | yea gnarface |
| 22:23.09 | fsmithred | here, too |
| 22:23.32 | fsmithred | not yet. hang around for a couple more years. |
| 22:23.38 | fsmithred | it'll catch up. |
| 22:23.49 | KatolaZ | greenjeans: the large majority of the world will always pissed off, whatever oyu do or don't :) |
| 22:24.07 | greenjeans | I can watch hi-def stuff at home on my Nvidia machine and play DVD's flawlessly with just the nouveau driver now, couldn't do that a few years ago |
| 22:24.18 | mockingbird | nice greenjeans |
| 22:24.39 | mockingbird | would still be interested to compare chalkboard benchmark in chromium with nouveau vs binaries |
| 22:24.39 | fsmithred | gotta go. bbl. |
| 22:24.45 | greenjeans | bye FSR |
| 22:24.47 | mockingbird | bye thanks for your help |
| 22:26.35 | greenjeans | mockingbird: just spitball testing, but every couple years I run tests on both because both my desktops at home are nvidia, I start running high-def video on youtube on lowest setting, then start ramping up until I start getting frames noticeably dropped |
| 22:27.04 | greenjeans | and two years ago, nouveau stopped failing at 720p |
| 22:27.04 | gnarface | mockingbird: it would be wildly different depending on whether the GPU was one of the few for which nouveau supports the dynamic reclocking features, and whether opengl-accelerated rendering is enabled in chromium. (you can disable it in firefox, at least, can you for chromium as well? i don't actually know.) |
| 22:27.57 | mockingbird | ah interesting interesting |
| 22:28.42 | mockingbird | Yes you can disable it in chrome://flags |
| 22:28.59 | greenjeans | yep, now I can get 1080p just fine, and that's on an older card, circa 2011 or so, GT 200 series IIRC |
| 22:29.21 | *** join/#devuan Xenguy (~Xenguy@unaffiliated/xenguy) |
| 22:29.30 | mockingbird | GT200 that would be G9x silicon |
| 22:29.48 | greenjeans | FYI i'd disable hardware acceleration in Chromium |
| 22:30.01 | mockingbird | do you drop frames in stats for nerds (right click on video, stats for nerds) |
| 22:30.02 | greenjeans | never does work right on any of my machines |
| 22:30.33 | greenjeans | haven't tried it, haven't even had my desktop online in a year or so |
| 22:30.45 | mockingbird | if you have a laptop then maybe just disable nVidia and use i915 |
| 22:31.03 | mockingbird | greenjeans: why? Chromium acceleration blows FF out of the water |
| 22:31.19 | greenjeans | always causes glitches for me |
| 22:31.30 | greenjeans | they may take a while to show themselves |
| 22:31.35 | greenjeans | but always there |
| 22:31.47 | Xenguy | mockingbird: Is Chromium infected with the Google spyware at all? |
| 22:32.16 | gnarface | mockingbird: with nouveau, there's some chance that firefox/chrome may actually be *faster* with opengl disabled |
| 22:32.27 | greenjeans | FYI the Radeon opensource driver has gotten a lot better too IMO |
| 22:32.28 | mockingbird | yes that's true |
| 22:32.36 | mockingbird | Xenguy - yes it is |
| 22:32.45 | Xenguy | It seems to me the last time I researched this, Chromium was a bit entangled in the Google web |
| 22:33.02 | mockingbird | even without webvince and sync removed it still phones home |
| 22:33.19 | Xenguy | I had been hoping that it would not be, and that Chromium might be worth trying out |
| 22:33.24 | mockingbird | gnarface: yes Chrome has a VERY fast software compositor |
| 22:33.41 | mockingbird | there's a project out there to remove it, but it hasn't gotten anywhere |
| 22:33.46 | greenjeans | FF has it too, or does last time I checked, first thing it does at first startup is download a ginormous file from google |
| 22:33.59 | Xenguy | greenjeans: oh no, really? |
| 22:34.10 | greenjeans | it did last time I used it |
| 22:34.20 | Xenguy | That might be the option to have FF watch for malicious stuff, or w/e it is |
| 22:34.32 | Xenguy | I can't remember the exact phrasing right now |
| 22:34.34 | greenjeans | been a while, I usually use Chromium, but lately have been rockin Palemoon |
| 22:34.44 | Xenguy | me too greenjeans |
| 22:35.00 | Xenguy | Working really well for me on both linux and w!ndows |
| 22:35.01 | greenjeans | Xenguy: yeah, some kind of list of bad sites and such |
| 22:35.08 | mockingbird | The firefox forks always seem 10 times slower than branch |
| 22:35.18 | mockingbird | at least in Windows |
| 22:35.25 | greenjeans | not this one |
| 22:35.35 | greenjeans | MUCH faster than current FF |
| 22:35.36 | Xenguy | I find PM is quite snappy, but I haven't opened 500 tabs with it either |
| 22:35.40 | mockingbird | the devs at Mozilla have some secret sauce for compiling |
| 22:36.38 | greenjeans | I think the devs at Mozilla have had a little too much of the sauce if you ask me, lol |
| 22:36.53 | Xenguy | Their marketing dept. took over |
| 22:36.57 | mockingbird | he he |
| 22:37.00 | Xenguy | Lost their clue |
| 22:37.22 | mockingbird | I find you can get pretty good results with Classic Theme Restorer |
| 22:37.30 | mockingbird | (of course it will be useless after 52 ESR) |
| 22:38.11 | Xenguy | Well now Mozilla is going to do some info gathering on users' browsing habits or some shite |
| 22:38.24 | Xenguy | So I'm definitely looking elsewhere |
| 22:38.40 | Xenguy | Too bad, I have really enjoyed FF and the add-ons over the years |
| 22:38.52 | mockingbird | hey research that before dumping ff |
| 22:38.59 | greenjeans | okay I gotta go run and start squashing some new Vuu-do, because it's been like a whole two weeks since the last one, hah! have a good one y'all! |
| 22:39.00 | Xenguy | I think I have |
| 22:39.01 | mockingbird | put some work into it |
| 22:39.17 | mockingbird | they have some new wallet plugin hard built into the new releases but you can remove it |
| 22:39.23 | mockingbird | about:config and delete the dll |
| 22:39.43 | mockingbird | bye greenjeans |
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| 22:40.07 | Xenguy | I just think they're coming very close to jumping the shark, and it's a shame |
| 22:40.34 | Xenguy | FF was supposed to be lean and mean, but they lost that vision somewhere |
| 22:41.20 | *** join/#devuan athidhep (~eafaef@unaffiliated/athidhep) |
| 22:41.25 | Xenguy | It sure wasn't supposed to be collecting user data |
| 22:41.31 | mockingbird | I'm not worried |
| 22:41.39 | mockingbird | Because I will stick with 52ESR |
| 22:41.43 | mockingbird | for years to come |
| 22:41.51 | Xenguy | Why worry, there's always another alterative in this eco system : -) |
| 22:41.58 | mockingbird | unless someone finds a way to backport Chromium to Windows XP |
| 22:42.03 | Xenguy | hah |
| 22:42.15 | mockingbird | for XP there aint |
| 22:42.22 | Xenguy | Fo sho |
| 22:42.24 | mockingbird | there's Firefox and they're ending ESR soon |
| 22:42.49 | mockingbird | Microsoft is still releasing XP updates |
| 22:43.05 | mockingbird | In fact, they even released some Server 2003/XP x64 updates last month |
| 22:43.14 | Xenguy | I suppose they were forced to in the end, but still, let XP die |
| 22:43.17 | mockingbird | after two years of nothing (was killed in 2015 or so) |
| 22:43.24 | mockingbird | nah XP is good |
| 22:43.32 | mockingbird | xp for productivity is good |
| 22:43.35 | mockingbird | win7 for games |
| 22:43.43 | mockingbird | win10 for the chinese bathroom tablet |
| 22:44.05 | Xenguy | When I had to use W, I liked XP design-wise, and I can understand how folks wanted it to stick around |
| 22:44.36 | mockingbird | Ok I gotta reboot... It didn't update the kernel, but it did something to initramfs so I gotta reboot to finish with the dist-upgrade |
| 22:44.36 | Xenguy | win10 never :P |
| 22:44.42 | mockingbird | BRB xenguy - stick around baby |
| 22:44.44 | Xenguy | bye |
| 22:45.14 | *** part/#devuan mockingbird (63e4a5f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.228.165.249) |
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| 22:49.20 | mockingbird | back baby |
| 22:49.29 | mockingbird | That went smooth |
| 22:49.35 | Xenguy | re |
| 22:49.41 | *** join/#devuan g4570n (~g4570n@host2.190-228-106.telecom.net.ar) |
| 22:49.44 | mockingbird | the reboot |
| 22:50.08 | Xenguy | das re boot |
| 22:50.26 | Xenguy | feels like Dougie in Twin Peaks... |
| 22:50.58 | mockingbird | there we go ASCII has a substantially newer version of libimobiledevice |
| 22:51.14 | mockingbird | but first, a dist-upgrade |
| 22:51.25 | Xenguy | Are you just upgrading now? |
| 22:51.38 | mockingbird | I just installed today |
| 22:51.50 | mockingbird | Jessie |
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| 22:52.11 | Xenguy | And you are running Ascii too |
| 22:52.14 | Xenguy | ? |
| 22:52.21 | mockingbird | I needed to upgrade to ascii |
| 22:52.37 | mockingbird | because the libimobiledevice in Jessie is ancient and won't work with my iPhone |
| 22:52.47 | Xenguy | Still on Jessie here; oh I see |
| 22:52.47 | mockingbird | and there was no backport |
| 22:52.52 | mockingbird | ah cool |
| 22:54.18 | mockingbird | needed something debian-based without systemd |
| 22:54.24 | mockingbird | this was the result on Google |
| 22:55.08 | mockingbird | everyone is always praising mint.... but what's the point if you're going to use mint because it's open source, then use windows because mint has systemd |
| 22:55.29 | Xenguy | Well good luck with it all, it seems to be working as expected here (very Debian experience, pre-systemd) |
| 22:55.41 | mockingbird | ok my screen might black out, dist-upgrade is going to touch tome xfree86 stuff |
| 22:55.49 | Xenguy | Yeah and QA on Mint may be a little dodgy |
| 22:55.52 | mockingbird | thanks |
| 22:56.02 | mockingbird | do you recompile your kernel? |
| 22:56.06 | Xenguy | No |
| 22:56.16 | mockingbird | It would be great to get some help with that (all the online guides are antiquated) |
| 22:56.21 | mockingbird | ah ok |
| 22:56.25 | Xenguy | I did that until I knew how, then took the lazy route |
| 22:56.36 | mockingbird | what is the lazy route? Targetted install? |
| 22:56.48 | Xenguy | Accept default kernel |
| 22:56.54 | mockingbird | ah |
| 22:56.57 | mockingbird | he he |
| 22:57.11 | mockingbird | I've always been passionate about not using modules when I don't have to |
| 22:57.19 | Xenguy | Compiling kernels only remains fascinating for so long ; -) |
| 22:57.31 | mockingbird | but heck, they make recompiling the kernel these days as confusing as putting humpty dumpty back together again |
| 22:57.47 | Xenguy | It's been awhile since I tried |
| 22:57.48 | mockingbird | no one bothers to update the explanations in the wizard for the drivers |
| 22:58.01 | mockingbird | stuff gets deprecated without explanation |
| 22:58.09 | Xenguy | Sounds sloppy |
| 22:58.11 | mockingbird | then you have to guess if you really need something |
| 22:58.13 | gnarface | mockingbird: you can just 'apt-get source [package]' for the current kernel, make your changes to that, and rebuild it with kernel-package |
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| 22:58.40 | mockingbird | so as an example (as this probably does not hold true), if you delete firewire support, you may be removing say serial support too |
| 22:58.55 | gnarface | mockingbird: it now also has some automated build scripts builtin, but the docs on those are the ones that are hard to find, and kernel-package is still more reliable |
| 22:58.55 | mockingbird | gnarface - thanks |
| 22:59.10 | mockingbird | gnarface - yes I have tried the automated script in the past |
| 22:59.22 | mockingbird | I think it has been broken for many years now and no one has bothered to fix it |
| 22:59.26 | gnarface | i forget but the call looks something like debian/rules build? |
| 22:59.44 | mockingbird | I think I tried kernel package too and it was broken |
| 22:59.48 | mockingbird | maybe they fixed that |
| 22:59.55 | gnarface | i'm not sure if it's actually broken. i think nobody has bothered to update the documentation because the only people left at Debian are all about pulling the ladder up behind them, that's what i think. |
| 22:59.56 | mockingbird | but it did not streamline properly |
| 23:00.15 | gnarface | kernel-package is just picky about what you name the local version string |
| 23:00.32 | mockingbird | yea what did that kernel developer who quit years ago say (I think his name started with Kon or something like that) |
| 23:01.03 | mockingbird | they spend all their time fixing a small bug for a huge corporation that has no negligible effect on the rest of desktop users, and then ignore desktop users when they have serious problems |
| 23:01.31 | mockingbird | yes but does it update all the other stuff automatically? |
| 23:01.55 | mockingbird | I can't point to specifics, but I'm sure I could gather the correct nomenclatures if I went through it again |
| 23:02.04 | mockingbird | but something was very, very broken with it the last time I tried |
| 23:02.28 | mockingbird | The only thing I want to have to go through with a re-compilation is picking what I want as part of the kernel and what I want as a module |
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| 23:02.57 | mockingbird | and not guessing what they changed in this version that forces me to update some weird far-flung file to avoid a kernel panic on the next reboot after re-compiling |
| 23:03.20 | gnarface | hmmm. kernel-package may create a package that isn't tethered to the right dependencies, that's possible i think, but if you name/number your local version string following the rules, then installing the next officially packaged kernel release should re-establish the dependencies cleanly and not be choked by the presence of your custom kernel |
| 23:03.36 | mockingbird | ok if I don't answer in the next minute it's because dist-upgrade has blacked my screen updating xorg |
| 23:04.07 | mockingbird | gnarface - definitely worth a try, thanks |
| 23:04.08 | gnarface | when you go to build your custom kernel, DO use the debian source package to customize the stock kernel build, rather than installing a vanilla kernel. that will help stuff a bit |
| 23:04.22 | mockingbird | always the debian source |
| 23:05.23 | mockingbird | we should do it together one day :-) |
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| 23:05.46 | gnarface | i'm not opposed to that |
| 23:06.09 | mockingbird | Do you have AliWangWang or QQ? |
| 23:07.01 | gnarface | never heard of either |
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| 23:13.31 | mockingbird | lol the new libimobiledev did not fix the problem |
| 23:13.53 | mockingbird | oh wait no I have to update it manually |
| 23:13.59 | mockingbird | the old one is libimobiledevice4 |
| 23:14.04 | mockingbird | the new one is libimobiledevice6 |
| 23:14.13 | mockingbird | ok let's wait for this dist-upgrade to finish first |
| 23:14.42 | Artemis3 | i know QQ tho xD |
| 23:14.49 | mockingbird | nice |
| 23:14.58 | mockingbird | what is your qq? |
| 23:15.23 | Artemis3 | the number i forgot since i didnt have any contacts anyway |
| 23:15.43 | mockingbird | heh |
| 23:15.51 | mockingbird | ok nature calls bbl |
| 23:16.40 | mockingbird | darn Chinese toilet windows 10 tablet |
| 23:16.52 | mockingbird | never shuts down properly and always drains the battery to 0% when you need it |
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| 23:53.16 | Schallaven | o/ |
| 23:54.33 | Xenguy | \o |
| 23:57.34 | MinceR | \o/ |
| 23:57.53 | matthiaskrgr | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:58.11 | Schallaven | \o\ |
| 23:58.13 | Schallaven | /o/ |
| 23:58.15 | Schallaven | \o/ |
| 23:58.43 | MinceR | |o| |
| 23:58.46 | MinceR | |-o-| |